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418 Comments
Global warming or cooling? Who knows?
By analytical chemist and a mathematician Sherwood Thoele
Global cooling or global warming, which is it? It depends upon the latest climate study published. In the 1960s and 1970s, they claimed global cooling because of several years of colder than “normal” temperatures. Academia and certain think tanks claimed this cooling was from too much CO2 (carbon dioxide) in the atmosphere. That died down and then came a warming spell, so we are now experiencing global warming, because of too much CO2 in the atmosphere. So, too much CO2 causes both global cooling and global warming.
As an analytical chemist, I analyze all the parameters and data from studies: what prompted the study, who funded it, where it was conducted, measuring equipment accuracy and the atmospheric conditions or physical status of that area during the study. Might there be bias for the outcome of the study, either by those conducting the study or those funding it and does the conclusion match the data? I want to know all this information before I accept the conclusions of any study, especially when it comes from someone within a social movement or political group.
Briefly, what is CO2 and what are some of its properties? CO2 is a gas at temperatures above -78.5C (-109.3F) at sea level, and it’s only liquid under a lot of pressure, like in fire extinguishers. CO2 is heavier than air, so without air currents it won’t rise above the ground (stage fog, silos, caves, mines). It is slightly soluble in water at room temperature and lower. So it is more soluble in the moisture in the colder upper atmosphere. CO2 with water makes carbonic acid (carbonated water), making it even heavier. Air is from 0.027 to 0.036 percent CO2, depending on the reference source.
One of the first things you learn in chemistry is that everything moves toward a state of equilibrium. So when too much water is in the atmosphere, along with other conditions, it rains. Along with this moisture is any excess or out-of-equilibrium CO2. CO2 with water is a mild acid with a pH of 5 to 6, which is perfect for plants. This acid helps release other minerals in the soil turning them into carbonates that dissolve easier in water, making them available to plants.
Because CO2 is slightly soluble in water and will come back to the Earth with precipitation, nature corrects for any excess, just as it does with other excess materials from volcanoes and forest fires.
CO2 comes from burning or oxidizing organic material and minerals that contain carbon. Major sources are fermenting (rotting) vegetation like in swamps, compost piles, burning limestone to make lime, gasoline or other petroleum products, volcanoes and forest fires. Nature recycles all of what it considers excess very efficiently. CO2 absorbs some infrared radiation. Infrared absorbers accept the radiation from any direction.
Since infrared radiation is one of many parts of visible light, the biggest source is the sun. Some say excess CO2 combined with the moisture in the atmosphere absorbs infrared radiation from the Earth to create a greenhouse effect by not letting it pass through it. But how then does the infrared radiation from the sun get through the CO2/moisture, and wouldn’t it already have absorbed as much infrared radiation as it could handle from the sun?
There is a limit to the amount of infrared radiation that moisture/CO2 can absorb. Warmth from sunlight means infrared radiation is getting through. The infrared radiation absorbed by the Earth will keep it warm for a while, but as clouds linger and the sun goes down, the warmth goes away quickly. So if there were a greenhouse effect from heat being blocked from leaving the Earth, then the temperature on cloudy days and at night shouldn’t be so different than on a sunny day.
Some claim a 1 degree Fahrenheit increase in the average temperature over the last 100 years, globally. Considering the many variables that cause temperature changes, including the accuracy of the thermometers, the average global temperature has been extremely stable in this short period of time relative to the age of the Earth.
I submit that there is no manmade global cooling/warming, that there is no study or research data that makes a good argument to that effect when carefully examined objectively and that the Earth has many different and wide-ranging cycles that man cannot control, no matter how much he would like to.
Chucklesnort for the day.
(Warning:crude humor)
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1290680/gold_bond_powder/
Yep — Crude is one word for it!! REAL crude!!
Chucklesnort for the day.
Peers over top of glasses. (shakes head)
boys will be boys…
But… there was one female in the video!!
Booooo Hissssss
U.K. Will Not Deport Gay Iranian Teen After Lover Was Hanged
LONDON — Britain’s Home Office says it will not deport a gay Iranian teenager back to his homeland.
The U.K. Border Agency said on Tuesday that Mehdi Kazemi will be allowed to remain in Britain.
Kazemi came to England to study English in 2005. He discovered his boyfriend had been charged in Iran with sodomy and hanged.
Kazemi asked for asylum, claiming he would be executed if he returned to Iran. Though his application was refused last year, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith agreed to reconsider his case in March.
(fox news)
Every day and first thing off with the denial.
What is it Hank? Your wife’s petro stocks?
Or is it something deeper?
Is it the idea that man could change this planet threatens your faith?
I mean, all we have to suggest that “God” has any influence on this planet is an old story book.
If there were real evidence (and there is) that man was changing this planet in ways “God” is only SAID to have, does that threaten you and your God?
It shouldn’t you know. Even if there is no evidence of “God’s” existence, that same story book does tell the faithful to be good stewards of the Earth.
Just a quick note here to wish Edward Kennedy a swift recovery and best wishes to all who love and respect him.
Gasoline = $3.79.9 per gallon – the highest I’ve ever seen it. How many times have I said that this summer? Too many.
The House passed legislation allowing the U.S. to sue OPEC over gas prices. Bush, et al. say that suing would actually make the price of gas higher. Their argument made sense, but their lack of providing any alternatives implies that we are going to be victims of this cost from now on.
I don’t actually trust Bush, Cheney, et al. to ever tell us the truth about anything — especially not oil.
I do hope the Bush 2004 voters who cast their ballot for Bush/Cheney because they could keep us safe are enjoying these profound freedoms we now have.
It will take a while to get this country on the right track. McCain has no ability, or even the inclination, to do that.
Why aren’t there gas shortages?
Supply and demand right?
The price of gasoline keeps going up. But supply remains plentiful. If the price goes up, there should be an observable decrease in supply.
But there isn’t.
We are being gamed by the oil companies and futures traders.
I say nationalize the whole thing and take private profit out of it.
” A grim diagnosis: Kennedy’s brain cancer is worst kind”
“WASHINGTON – A malignant glioma — the diagnosis doctors gave Sen. Edward M. Kennedy — is the worst kind of brain cancer. Malignant gliomas strike almost 9,000 Americans a year. Survival statistics are grim — few live three years and for the worst subtype, half die within a year.”
For those of us who will, Lib. or Con., I think a prayer is in order for this man and his family. This ain’t gon’a be easy for them or a lot of this nation. We are losing an political icon.
1811 Trackbacks
The number of trackbacks on the Petraeus thread. It literally takes minutes to scroll thru them all.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/04/petraeus-says-the-glass-is-half-full/#comment-353519
My personal favorite: Shemale Escorts of Cincinnati.
If you have to go to Cincinnati, that is probably information you need. LOL
I still wonder if there is a positive feedback loop whereby the more trackbacks a thread gets, the more in number it will likely receive? And is it necessary to clog up this space with so much crap?
B.J.
“Why aren’t there gas shortages?”
You want a sure fire way to make shortages happen?
“I say nationalize the whole thing and take private profit out of it”
Guaranteed shortages B.J!
“Why aren’t there gas shortages?”
The predictions I am reading is that we will be paying more and waiting in line to get it.
But, hey, there haven’t been any more terrorist attacks. Or, is it possible that the higher prices are the result, in part, of our war on terror?
We’re safer, so what if our eocnomy is reduced to that of a third world country?
The only thing I am going to ask of Bush, please keep campaigning against Obama. It helps your party and the GOP candidate so much.
Goodmorning. I recieved this link this morning. http://www.americasnewtanker.com/ . It was attached to an e-mail from Senator Obama. Herbert West III, Candidate for Sheriff, Miami County Kansas, as of May 7th 2008. west.herb@yahoo.com wen2k.com . Hang in in there.
Gas in Norway and most of Europe is almost $7 a gallon, Mexico it’s around $2.50, in Saudi it’s about 90 cents, and in Caracas, Venezuela it’s only 12 cents a gallon.
Maybe we should start drilling our own reserves…or come up with viable alternatives, which makes so much sense it’ll probably never happen in our lifetime.
Friedman’s thoughts on topics discussed here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/21/opinion/21friedman.html?em&ex=1211515200&en=fb8b75ffacef796c&ei=5087
Hank’s source may be a crackerjack chemist, but he’s not much of a physicist. He writes:
“Since infrared radiation is one of many parts of visible light, the biggest source is the sun. Some say excess CO2 combined with the moisture in the atmosphere absorbs infrared radiation from the Earth to create a greenhouse effect by not letting it pass through it. But how then does the infrared radiation from the sun get through the CO2/moisture, and wouldn’t it already have absorbed as much infrared radiation as it could handle from the sun?”
It’s called the greenhouse effect. When light shines through your windshield on a winter’s day and heats up the inside of your car, does the glass get hot?
Of course not. If the glass got hot, it would radiate the heat back out into the air, and the car wouldn’t warm up much.
What happens is that radiation energy (light) from the sun has a short wavelength which punches through the atmosphere. Then those wavelengths hit something like earth or water, which heats it up. Now the energy is converted into heat with a much longer wavelength. It can’t punch back out through the atmosphere at the same rate it came in, so there’s a net gain in heat energy.
That’s why ham radio operators use long wavelengths like 80 meters (a single wave oscillation is 80 meters long) to bounce off the ionosphere so they can talk to someone in Japan or Australia. (Actually, it can bounce off the ionosphere and the ground several times.)
Short wavelengths like 2 meters just go to the horizon and on out into space for the most part.
Since the thickness of the atmosphere is a main determiner of how much heat is gained, the thicker the atmosphere (by burning coal and gasoline), the hotter it’s going to get.
And if you don’t believe it look at Mars and Venus. Granted, humans didn’t have anything to do with those planets, but still, Mars has a thin atmosphere and is very cold (solid CO2 at the poles means a temp of 110 F below zero) while Venus with its very thick atmosphere is 800 F at the surface.
Thicken the atmosphere — increase the heat of the planet. That’s what we do everytime we burn coal and gasoline that is carbon sequestered in the ground for hundreds of millions of years . . .
This is the inexorable law of physics that all Hank’s parade of nay-sayers cannot refute.
Too serious in here. Time to catch a summer movie, this one is lookin good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1kqqMXWEFs
Good article, Steven.
I once raced my friend back to his apartment in Japan, she taking the car and I on the subway.
Of course, I got back about twenty minutes faster than she did because the subway wasn’t stopping ever block for lights.
Also, on a subway or bus, you don’t have to park.
Lastly, you walk a lot more which is why Europeans and urban Americans are a lot thinner than Kansans, heigh ho . . .
“Thicken the atmosphere — increase the heat of the planet. That’s what we do everytime we burn coal and gasoline that is carbon sequestered in the ground for hundreds of millions of years”
———————-
Simplistic baloney Capn. Other planets don’t have our kind of atmosphere.
The net warming or cooling effect of cloud cover depends on what type of clouds. This article describes an effect wherein as the temperature rises, the cloud cover diminishes to allow cooling. Well designed, wouldn’t you say?
“High clouds over the western tropical Pacific Ocean seem to systematically decrease when sea surface temperatures are higher,” says Arthur Y. Hou of Goddard’s Data Assimilation Office…”
“The researchers compare this inverse relationship to the eye’s iris, which opens and closes to counter changes in light intensity. The “adaptive infrared iris” of cirrus clouds opens and closes to permit the release of infrared energy, thus resisting warmer tropical sea surface temperatures, which occur naturally and are predicted to increase as the result of climate warming.”
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/03/010301072351.htm
I will support a 50 cents per gallon federal tax on fuel consumption if:
1) The money ONLY goes to research and development, and deployment of alternative fuels for transportation usage
2) THe small portion of ANWR set aside for oil development is allowed to be developed
3)Alternative energy sites are not based on
“not in my back yard” syndrome.
Oh, and off shore drilling is no longer considered off limits
“2) THe small portion of ANWR set aside for oil development is allowed to be developed”
There is less than six months worth of oil in ANWR – hardly worth the environmental risk.
“Oh, and off shore drilling is no longer considered off limits”
The reason that permits were denied to drill in the Gulf off of Florida was Jeb didn’t want drilling and George acquiesced.
Well, I guess then in six months the drilling in ANWR will be over.
I don;t deny the Bush problem with drillin in the Gulf off of Florida? So what? NEw President, new Congress. I don;t support Bush. Haven;t for a long time. And the reason wind farms in one area were not allowed was because of Ted Kennedy. So what.
If we are going to tax fuel consumption as a way of removing ourselves from the teat of foreing oil, and oil in general, then MY PRICE in supporting that is allowing oil development in our back yard.
Soory, should have been oil and energy development in our own backyard
ANWR
“A 1998 United States Geological Survey (USGS) study indicated at least 4.3 billion (95% probability) and possibly as much as 11.8 billion (5% probability) barrels (0.9 to 2.5 km³) of technically recoverable oil exists in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge 1002 area, with a mean value of 7.7 billion barrels (1.7 km³). In addition, in the entire assessment area, which covers not only land under Federal jurisdiction, but also Native lands and adjacent State waters within three miles (5 km), technically recoverable oil is estimated to be at least 5.7 billion (95%) and as much as 16.0 billion (5%) barrels (0.7 to 1.9 km³), with a mean value of 10.4 billion barrels (1.2 km³).”
“The U.S. consumes about 20 million barrels (3,200,000 m³) daily. If the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge oil reserves were used to supply 5% of the U.S. daily consumption — most is imported from Canada (19%), Mexico (15%), Saudi Arabia (11.5%), Nigeria (10.5%) and Venezuela (10.5%)[11] — the reserves, using the low figure of 4.3 billion barrels (680,000,000 m³), would last approximately 4300 days, or almost 12 years. Using the high estimate, the reserves would last approximately 11800 days, or 32 years.
Total oil independence at 20 million barrels per day (using the before mentioned 10.5 billion barrel mean) would only supply the United States for 525 days (or less than a year and a half, but this complete supporting is impossible). Using the increasing price of oil this supply (with 10.5 billion barrel mean and crude oil at over $120 a barrel) would be worth 1,260,000,000,000.00 ($1.26 trillion).”- Wikipedia
——————–
That is a lot of oil.
And by the way, I am putting my money where my mouth is. I drive nearly 400 miles a week. (sometimes more) a 50 cents per gallon tax is going to put a big hole in my pocket.
Oh, my lawdie – did anyone catch the finale of “Dancing with the Stars” last night? My fave, Adam Carolla, made a repeat appearance – and he couldn’t have been any cuter. He really stuck it to O.B. Laden and his ilk – all the while exuding his usual humor and personal charm.
I even endured the appearance of Marlee Matlin, whom I have long since pardoned for ensnaring the once-gorgeous William Hurt. The two co-starred in the insipid 1986 flick “Children of a Lesser God” and fell in love and lived together for 2 years. Now, I believed back then that I would have made a most delightful deaf-mute; the sight of the eye-gasmic, Oscar-winning thespian nearly compelled me smash my eardrums, beseech him to marry me and take me away from all this, and ravage me on the steps of the Braille Institute in the gathering dusk.
But he didn’t. After winning the 1985 Oscar for “Kiss of the Spider Woman” – he chose his nubile co-star instead.
Oh well, I don’t REALLY want to be deaf; then again, if he had married me, the sound of my own screams might have deafened me anyway…..okay, too much information.
I was glad Kristie and Mark won – they heartily deserved to do so.
And Marlee and Bill broke up in the fall of 1987. I guess the once-babealicious actor was awful to live with. But, da-yummie, it ain’t every day that someone could make this music lover want to be deaf. That’s sayin’ a lot right there.
‘Cause this is one Spider spinster who once wished to be kissed. Passionately. With panache. Too bad the dude has lost most of his looks. What a cruel thing time is……
The government should not be involved in any way with researching alternative fuels. Did not ethanol prove anything? The gas companies have huge profits to fund the development. Let them use their own money. The market will dictate the most viable solutions. Subsidies and grants cloud the issue.
SolDevVB
Don;t you understand that the oil companies are evil and will supress any informaiton/technology that challenges their stealing of money from poor people around the world? DOn;t you understand that the government is the only solution to todays’ problems? Don;t your understand that petroleum based energy will kill all of mankind?
while I agree with you in principal, I am tired of fighting with those who think like my first paragraph. I am willing to compromise, and put my money on it.
I believe we’ve entered the “New World Order”, and the U.S. is descending down the ranking list.
There needs to be an excise tax on everything sold to the OPEC countries that is continually counter balancing to their price increases.
When they see it’s not getting them anywhere maybe prices will go down.
It’s Opecs oil. THey have a right to charge whatever they can get for it. We need to remove ourselves from the teat as much as possible, while we develop alternative energy.
But you are right, our stuff is our stuff. We can charge them whatever we want. Of course, some other country will just give it to them at half that.
Sel sufficiency is the answer. And while educating folks about th ebenefits of conservation is good, it is also long term. Answers need to be found now. ANswers of energy availability within our own country
Sen. Kennedy now home from the hospital! He now waits to see what treatments will be used. That kind of waiting can be very difficult.
We need to keep him in our thoughts and prayers.
I believe we’ve entered the “New World Order”, and the U.S. is descending down the ranking list.
You got that right. And the candidate that gets it (Fiat money, no nation building, strong defense, limited government…) was made out to be the ‘kook’. Then when people saw through the media bias (those with a clue anyway) they blacked him out.
God forbid the voters hear the truth. That the fiat monetary system would fail, that foreign intervention only brings harm to all sides, the current war has devastated our military while growing our enemies. God forbid we hear the truth.
And when those with a clue enter into the political system as delegates, the GOP changes the rules so that the beloved and anointed McCain isn’t embarrassed by his infinite lack of wisdom regarding foreign policy and the economy. See below. There are many many more instances, just google it. BTW, isn’t it funny how the New Hampshire recount never happened?
GOP cracks down on Ron Paul activists
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/missouristatenews/story/64CF6ED868C2A80286257431000BBF84?OpenDocument
Nevada GOP Caucus In Chaos
http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/13891802.html
LJ, I was thinking about a world wide OPIC cartel, that’s the only way it might work. If they can collude against their customers, their customers should be able to collude against them.
US Denies Israeli Report of Iran Attack Plans
The news comes as the White House is denying a new report it plans to attack Iran before President Bush leaves office. On Monday, Israel’s Army Radio reported a senior member of President Bush’s entourage told a high-level meeting last week in Jerusalem that Bush and Vice President Cheney believe an attack is called for. President Bush was in Israel last week marking its sixtieth anniversary.
Link
Clinton Fundraiser Accused of Trying to Buy Support of Superdelegates
Meanwhile, the Huffington Post reports one of Hillary Clinton’s top financial supporters recently offered $1 million to the Young Democrats of America while he pressed for the organization’s two uncommitted superdelegates to endorse Clinton. The billionaire entertainment magnate Haim Saban reportedly made the offer in a call to the group’s president, David Hardt. The group turned down Saban’s offer. Saban has not denied talking to the Young Democrats of America, but he says the report in the Huffington Post is not true.
Link
US to Help Saudi Arabia Build Nuclear Program
The price of oil remains at near record levels despite a promise by Saudi Arabia to pump an additional 300,000 barrels of crude oil a day. Saudi Arabia made the announcement on Friday while President Bush was meeting with Saudi’s King Abdullah. In exchange, Bush has pledged US support for a Saudi nuclear power program. As part of the deal, Washington will help Saudi Arabia receive enriched uranium for its nuclear reactors.
Link
Isn’t Bush trying to start a war with Iran over the same thing?
Veterans Facility Urged Not to Diagnose Veterans with PTSD
The Washington Post is reporting staff members at a veterans facility in Texas were urged not to diagnose soldiers with post-traumatic stress disorder, because so many veterans were seeking government disability payments. In an email, psychologist Norma Perez wrote, “Given that we are having more and more compensation seeking veterans, I’d like to suggest that you refrain from giving a diagnosis of PTSD straight out.” Instead, Perez recommended the veterans be diagnosed with “adjustment disorder.” Veterans diagnosed with PTSD can be eligible for disability compensation of up to $2,500 a month. Those found to have adjustment disorder generally are not offered such payments. A recent study estimated about 300,000 US military personnel who had served in Iraq and Afghanistan are suffering from PTSD or major depression.
Link
BlueJay
Posted May 20, 2008 at 11:38 pm
“I don’t have any health care Capn.I spent today tearing up a floor throwing up all the time.
Tomorrow, I get to retile that floor probably throwing up all the time.I’m getting paid 35 dollars for the entire job.My exploiter is an Obama supporter. And my own brother.”
JR, I’ve been out of pocket for a few days but saw the above post on the Clinton Thread. Later, you posted this is not the flu, but you have had this for sometime and it is continual.
I may not agree with your lifestyle or political preference, but I can’t watch a person with a health issue which may be very serious if left untreated.
You MUST go to the hospital or a clinic. Be adamant – and insist you be helped. Keep a record of the times you get ill (vomit,chills,temperature,time of day), and show the doctor it is a long term and recurring problem. Providing him the above, may help with a diagnosis – in addition provide evidence your problem is NOT the flu. It also is harder for a physcian, when confronted with documented medical history – to gaff you off.
This is important not just for your LIFE – but you have a son who depends upon you and needs you.
Further, you are not Cinderella. You don’t have to do the work for your own brother at slave wages. Unless, your brother truly does not have the resources to pay you a fair wage. This later I can understand. But if he is just taking advantage of you, you need to grow some brass balls and insist your own blood pay you better.
Additionally, you can use the internet for free – and research your health issue. There are websites which you can access which will help you diagnose what “potentially” is ailing you. Not exact and certainly NOT preferrable to seeing a real doctor, but it might SCARE you enough to see the many potential life threatening disease/illnesses which your symptoms could be.
Maybe then you will be kicked in the butt to go see a doctor, instead of whining on the blog.
Your whine (yeah, I’m taking a pot shot here), really does reflect a cry for help. I can’t help via this blog directly.
But hopefully your fellow lib bloggers have something they call “compasssion” and will open their lib hearts to get you help – or also via private email INSIST you get to a doctor.
You might also consider getting more sleep. If you are sick, it might be better to spend the time in bed, rather than blogging late at night. Or like I said – research on line your sickness
(besides the liberal one, of course).
All kidding aside: seek medical help.
Spies for Hire: Carlyle Group to Become Owner of “One of America’s Largest Private Intelligence Armies”
The Carlyle Group is one of the world’s largest and most secretive investment funds. Nicknamed the Ex-President’s Club, Carlyle’s employees have included both President Bush, H.W. and George W. Bush, former British Prime Minister John Major, former Secretary of State James Baker, and former Defense Secretary Frank Carlucci. Amidst growing public scrutiny over its dealings, the company has recently scaled back its holdings in military contractors and its links to controversial political figures.
But that appears to be changing. On Friday, the intelligence firm Booz Allen Hamilton said it would sell its government-oriented unit to Carlyle Group for $2.5 billion. Booz Allen has been a major figure in the privatization of government intelligence. Current National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell was Booz Allen’s director of defense programs before his appointment last year. Booz Allen has been deeply involved in some of the Bush administration’s most controversial counterterror programs, including the infamous Total Information Awareness data-mining scheme. The Carlyle-Booz Allen deal awaits shareholder and regulator approval.
Link
California Supreme Court Overrules Gay Marriage Ban
In California, the State Supreme Court has overturned a ban on gay marriage. In a five-to-four ruling, the court said state restrictions on same-sex marriages are unconstitutional. Beth Teper of Colage, a group for the children of gay couples, welcomed the ruling.
Beth Teper: “Children with LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) parents deserve our families to be respected, validated and protected legally and culturally. The Supreme Court ought to be applauded for their decision today.”
The decision came out of a challenge to hundreds of gay marriages performed in San Francisco in 2004. The California Supreme Court had intervened to stop the weddings and later invalidated the documents. On Thursday, San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom said the court’s new decision could have national implications.
San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom: “And by the way, as California goes, so goes the rest of the nation. It’s inevitable. This door is wide open now. It’s going to happen, whether you like it or not. This is the future, and it’s now.”
California joins Massachusetts as the only states extending marriage rights to gays and lesbians.
Link
Now I feel marriage should be between two consenting adults as the only qualifier. The problem I have with this is that the state voted to ban them. For the government to overrule the will of the people is not right. The government is supposed to be of, from and for the people, not deciding what is best after the citizens have spoken.
Phantom:
Shouldn’t that be:
Organization of
Fuel
Using
Countries?
Never checked this out, so I don;t know how good a source this is, but it might be a good piece of knowledge for many
http://www.freemedicalcamps.com/vcamp.php?cityid=1429
Carlyle Group: Now, THAT’S a terrorist organization, almost on the scale of Private Capital Management.
The government did not overrule the people. The Court ruled on the Law, which is its function. The Court found the Law to be unconstitutional. We need to keep that straight.
Hey, Annie, that movie looks GREAT! Yul Brynner is HOT, HOT, HOT!
J R,
For once in his life, AmWay is correct.
The Hunter Health Clinic on East Central might be a low cost alternative. They have good P.A.s there, I hear – Geno Salerno (sp?) the guy who carved the wood statutes all over town, is one of them – used to be at least.
Email me if I can do anything.
My wife and I make 6 figures plus a year. We’re not rich, but I thought of us as comfortably middle class. With everything going up – gas, food, ad nauseum, I have to more carefully budget now than I have at any time since college. I think the economic sewer we have now will result in a 1964 styled repudiation of the GOP come this November.
Remember the then Arizona state Senator who carried his home state and Idaho, I think?
BlueJay,
I have some info on medical care to send you, but it’ll take me a bit to find it. Email me.
(Am_Way, will that work for you?)
It is just a logical extension of the “globalization of America” the Repubs. have been heralding. A truly global comapany has no loyalty to any country, and can not be counted on to have the domestic interest at heart. We’ve seen it manifested by defense firms as well as the oil industry.
When oil hits 150 the masses will raise up and demand nationalization of the oil industry.
J R
I don’t know if they’re still there, but the World Impact Clinic on 13th Street was a godsend to me when I first moved here. The doctor (don’t remember her name) is an angel from heaven.
Yes, we are sooo ofuc’d!
I have read the latest news regarding Senator Kennedy. It would seem that my father died of a very similar situation nearly 36 years ago. His tumor was inoperable, as the Senator’s appears to be. However, modern-day medicine has advanced considerably since the summer of ‘72.
This was the fate that awaited my father: In the fall of 1971, as I was just turning 13, my father began losing his photographic memory. His razor-sharp cognition, which had won him bonuses from his employer every year, now began to fail him. Slowly, inexorably, agonizingly, the very faculties (besides his prodigious alcohol consumption) which sustained him abandoned him.
Not surprisingly, he suffered excruciating headaches before the (correct) diagnosis was made. And let me assure everyone: whatever weaknesses some families exude are magnified one-million-fold when terminal illness strikes. In late May 1972, my father suffered a seizure while visiting his friend Frank in Wilson, KS. He then lost consciousness, an ambulance was summoned, and he was initially taken to Hadley Hospital in Hays.
As I would come to know well as I advanced into womanhood, Hays had very few specialists at that time. No one knew what had befallen my father, until finally he was taken to Wichita (Wesley) – and the tumor was properly diagnosed. There were no cures, no treatments, nothing to do but await the inevitable.
Death, when it came, was merciful. I’ll never forget that moment. My (maternal) grandmother phoned with the news; I hopped onto my little yellow one-speed bike, scurried over to Dillon’s, and pored over the latest copy of 16 magazine and its sister publication, Tiger Beat. I was madly infatuated with an actor/musician who was featured rather often in their pages, and this was what compelled my attention.
This, to be sure, is why I admire and respect the Kennedy’s, despite their myriad failings. They, like many of us, are complicated, flawed, worthy individuals. But of one thing you cannot fault them: Nobody would ever deem them indifferent to their progeny.
I really cannot stomach the thought of anyone trotting out the Senator’s mistakes. What discernible benefit will this enact? It’s not that I’m accusing anyone of lying – it’s that the timing is vastly inappropriate.
Nothing I could say would enable anyone to understand parental disengagement and indifference. You’d have to experience it firsthand, and I don’t wish that on anyone who is human.
As an ancient philosopher once said, “Go know” – and that’s about the only g-day-ummed way you’d understand.
“truly global comapany has no loyalty . We’ve seen it manifested by defense firms as well as the oil industry.
Reworded as
“truly global consumers have no loyalty to any country, and can not be counted on to have the domestic interest at heart.” They will shop anywhere, to buy merchandise made anywhere, to save even small amounts. Hence, the rise of Wal Mart and demise of American Manufacturing.
AmWay, maybe you could coordinate a fundraiser to SAVE JR!
You know, like they saved Ferris Buehler.
I’m sure the compassionate Libs here would dive deep into THEIR OWN pockets to support JR and help pay for his health care.
Say Chas, could you say one of the STFU prayers for Kennedy?
He really needs your expertise now.
Max, do you ever actually ADD something to the discourse?
MaxGrobnik–
Could you just please be quiet now. Please?
Gee whillikens, Max, are you sinless? Are you perfect? Got a freakin’ halo over yer head?
If so, can I kiss your ring? ‘Cause I’ve always wondered what perfection felt like! Please, let us know what flawlessness is like! Please? Pretty, pretty please????
How ’bout we do an STFU prayer for you, Max?
No kidding, and thank you, LittleJohn.
Max manages to be offensive to Chas and Kennedy at the same time.
“Sexism didn’t defeat Clinton. Barack Obama did.”
Darn! I hate it when work interfers with bloggin~!
I missed a perfectly good Clinton bashing thread.
I’d like the editor to consider it wasn’t Barack Obama who defeated Hillary. It was actually the vote of the democratic voters (the people).
And it was also all us crossover conservatives who VOTED for Obama that did!
Max seems to be one sad, angry person. Perhaps prayers are sorely needed for Max as well as for Sen. Kennedy.
“Max manages to be offensive to Chas and Kennedy at the same time.”
Hey Max! Sounds like you got a twofer. Now that is what I’d call effective blogging.
No further comments on JR/BlueJay. My post was sincere (although sincerity is no guarantee for the truth). I hope he logs off long enough to seek help.
And he does have friends here – whom I hope will make the connection.
FilmFan,
Have you ever considered having your own blog? Your ideas and posts are so diverse, a blog of your own would give you the window you need to address them all. There are tons of free ones out there that require very little computer knowledge (if that’s a problem). I like Blogger.com, but there are many, may others.
Thank Goodness–outlander links to an article claiming that fewer cirrus clouds will reduce total effect of global warming.
Unfortunately, on the same site, we read this:
Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Levels Highest On Record
ScienceDaily (Nov. 4, 2006) — In 2005, globally averaged concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere reached their highest levels ever recorded. The World Meteorological Organization’s (WMO) 2005 Greenhouse Gas Bulletin, published Nov. 3, says quantities of CO2 were measured at 379.1 parts per million (ppm), up 0.53 per cent from 377.1 ppm in 2004.
After water vapour, carbon dioxide, methane (CH4) and nitrous oxide (N2O) are the three most prevalent greenhouse gases in the Earth’s atmosphere respectively. Greenhouse gases are some of the major drivers behind global warming and climate change.
Stupid is as stupid does. For your reading plesure
“Teen Nabbed For Naked MySpace Photos
Cops: Boy posted explicit shots of ex-girlfriend as way of “venting”
MAY 21–Meet Alex Phillips. The Wisconsin teenager is facing felony child pornography charges for allegedly posting naked photos of his 16-year-old ex-girlfriend on his MySpace page. When contacted by police about the two images, Phillips, 17, balked at removing the pictures of the girl. Warned that he could face jail for publishing images of the minor, Phillips told an investigator, “F#@$#$ that, I am keeping them up,” according to a criminal complaint filed yesterday in Lacrosse County Circuit Court. Phillips, pictured in the below mug shot, told cops that he posted the photos last week “because he was venting.” The cell phone camera photos had been taken by the girl, who provided them to Phillips. Along with posting the photos, Phillips added explicit captions like, “Yo, U see how big her hole is! Its from me!” While claiming that his goal was not to harm the girl, Phillips acknowledged that, “he probably should not have done this,” according to the May 20 court filing. Along with the child porn count, Phillips was charged with defamation and sexual exploitation of a child. (3 pages) “
“I’m sure the compassionate Libs here would dive deep into THEIR OWN pockets to support JR and help pay for his health care.”
I’m not interested in helping bloated corporations paying their CEO’s ten million dollars a year make more money.
However, I would support a system the controls costs and provides essential health care for all who need it.
That I would willingly contribute to, consistent with my ability to pay.
A mild bitch to vent a bit……………
I was running a few errands this morning, driving on Meridian just north of Pawnee, when I saw a fawn running south. I slammed on the brakes and the fawn cut in front of me and ran across the street into the parking lot of the Flea Market.
When I got home, I made a call so that the authorities could capture the deer before she and/or other drivers got hurt.
I made the first call to Animal Control, and was given another number to call. I listened to a recorded greeting for several minutes before being given another number to call. That was to the Wildlife folks and they asked me (!) what I thought they should do. Then they gave me another number to call.
When I finally got through to a human, the person that took the call seemed totally disinterested, but took the information.
Granted, I didn’t come across a grizzly bear or a man-eating coyote, but a frightened fawn running loose could cause a serious auto accident, especially around a heavily populated area.
I didn’t call 911, because I consider that to be a number for really human emergencies. I don’t like to tie up the lines with “non-emergencies.”
In retrospect, maybe I should have just called 911.
Thoughts?
MaxGlob’s ignorant comment shows the inherent fallacy of CON thinking.
When faced with an unjust system, they put the responsibility on the individual, knowing full well the individual is powerless against the corportocracy.
What? You don’t have a rifle, Clark?
Hehehe, just kidding. You did what I would’ve done.
I wouldn’t have tied up 9-11 for that level of emergancy.
“However, I would support a system the controls costs and provides essential health care for all who need it.
That I would willingly contribute to, consistent with my ability to pay.”
So, you are contributing to the likes of the Hunter clinic?
Ummmm. That sounds like a shot, and it kinda is, but not like most mean it. I am sending sending out that question, painful or not, to all. That includes myself. I have never considered giving to the Hunter clinic, or other such entity. I don;t know why, but I haven;t I have rectified that situation today, and will continue to do so. I would suggest everyone else do so. Of course, it is up to you as to what nonprofits you support.
“However, I would support a system the controls costs and provides essential health care for all who need it.
That I would willingly contribute to, consistent with my ability to pay.”
So, you are contributing to the likes of the Hunter clinic?
Ummmm. That sounds like a shot, and it kinda is, but not like most mean it. I am sending sending out that question, painful or not, to all. That includes myself. I have never considered giving to the Hunter clinic, or other such entity. I don;t know why, but I haven;t I have rectified that situation today, and will continue to do so. I would suggest everyone else do so. Of course, it is up to you as to what nonprofits you support.
WSCLARK-
I don;t know what else you could have done. Government bureaucrats. Even at lower levels, exhibits a few negative tendencies. You did well to even report it. It is my experience that most would not have even bothered.
I’m sure the Hunter Clinic does good work, and they deserve the donations they get.
But would we fund the U. S. military on a piece-meal, private-donation basis?
Of course not.
When it really matters, we need a comprehensive federal program to run it.
Sorry, I know that’s a red flag to the bull-headed CONs, but it’s the truth.
CapnAmerica
Posted May 21, 2008 at 12:21 pm | Permalink
That I would willingly contribute to, consistent with my ability to pay.
—————————————————-
Always that Lib qualifyer on it.
Oh, I’ll willingly pay whatever I can afford – which is NOTHING!
But, SOMEBODY ELSE can pay for me!
CapnAmerica-
See the post by WSCLARK about the fawn – and then ask yourself if you really want the government in charge of health care.
By the way, I found my wording. It was not meant as a shot, but rather, a challenge. Sorry for the previous bad wording.
Clark, we should probably pay more taxes to employ a Government Surplus Deer Roundup Service.
The GSDRS would respond immediately to Deer Sightings reported via 911.
The deer would be relocated via helicopter to a safer area without harming it.
“WSClark” shares –
“…maybe I should have just called 911.”
I probably would have called 911. After all, with 911 you get a human being and they’re in the business to respond to threats to human safety.
Now, they may or may not have perceived the fawn’s plight the threat to people that you do. (I think your concern is valid on that point, btw.) But by the time you got home, went through phone trees at Animal Control, the fawn was probably nowhere near where you saw it. What were they gonna do? At least 911 might have alerted patrol cars.
(Mmmm. Venison veal road kill….)
CapnAmerica
Posted May 21, 2008 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
MaxGlob’s ignorant comment shows the inherent fallacy of CON thinking.
When faced with an unjust system, they put the responsibility on the individual, knowing full well the individual is powerless against the corportocracy.
————————————————–
Ahh, the Powerless People routine again!
Woe is mean. I taint nuthin without Big Brother Government to take care of me, and the deer too.
Faced with an unjust system….
What is a Just system? Isn’t life fair?
Oh, I pay plenty. I’m in the StevenDavis income range (see above).
BTW, raising one in six America children in poverty–as our society currently does–costs some 500 billion dollars in future crime, untreated disease and lost productivity.
There’s no free lunch in a modern society, Max. You pay now (education, health care, food stamps) or you pay later (crime, unemployment, prisons).
When it really matters, we need a comprehensive federal program to run it.
Why stop there? You cradle to gravers are missing out on the big picture.
Government should run the schools. The federal government, because of course the states aren’t bright enough to get it right.
Guaranteed jobs with the government. I mean after y’all are done, there will be nothing left that is private. Jails can be leveled because no criminal is at fault, it is the government’s fault for not raising him/her correctly.
Guaranteed housing. Everyone has the exact same cookie cutter house. Wouldn’t want you to envy the Joneses. I mean if they actually educated themselves and worked to achieve 10 times what the fat and bloated nanny state riders did, why should they have a nice house?
Free food. From government farms and government grocery centers. You get the same bag of grub everyone else does. Don’t like what you got? Tough. The government says it is good for you.
Government provided mass transit. Turn in all your cars. Not everyone has one, so no one will have one.
If you want a government that wipes your butt from cradle to grave, move to a socialist country.
And capn, you will not give gladly (as you do not do that now) it will be taken from you without your permission.
WSC,
During spring break time I saw a ladder on the roof of a neighboring school. It looked very suspicious and was around the time we were hearing lots of news about copper being stolen from schools and parks, etc. Like you, I don’t dail 911 unless it’s an emergency. I looked up the number for the nearest police substation and called there. Guess what they told me to do? Yep, call 911. Still shaking my head about that one!
I don’t have an suggestions. You tried. Gotta have someone capable and competent on the other end to do any good.
WS,
I would have called 911 on the spot. Justification? The possibility of human fatality in a wreck.
But bully for you for thinking through the problem. Too bad the authorities blew it off.
In 50 years since LBJ started the War on Poverty, still 1 in 6 is ’stuck’ in government handout programs.
Hmmmm……
FDR started the Socialist mess, with his divine vision at engineering society.
Sure, some government help was needed during the depression years, but after WWII and the depression was over, the gravy train should have ended.
Instead, people held out their hands for even more.
Do you not think that welfare perpetuates deadbeats to stay in poverty? What’s their incentive to get out of it?
“BTW, raising one in six America children in poverty–as our society currently does–costs some 500 billion dollars in future crime, untreated disease and lost productivity.
There’s no free lunch in a modern society,”
I don;t know where you got the number, but whatever it is, there is definately a price.
Biggest cause, as I recall? single parent homes, not corporations.
An unjust system is one like this:
“UnitedHealth provides health care as a fringe benefit to both its 55,000 workers and to retirees. But under both federal and Minnesota law, if UnitedHealth decides to cut off this benefit the retirees are out of luck. Not so [a retired CEO like] McGuire. His employment contract requires the compay to reimburse him for the full cost of replacement coverage.”
McGuire’s retirement package from UnitedHealth?
$5 million annually, guaranteed for life.
“When it really matters, we need a comprehensive federal program to run it.”
Yup. No one can truly foul things up like a comprehensive federal program. And nothing says compassion like a massive federal bureaucracy, eating away endless tax dollars.
These are the same folks who brought you the $800 hammer, remember? Just WHAT in recent history would make us believe the feds competent to find their ass with both hands, let alone run the health care system?
“In 50 years since LBJ started the War on Poverty, still 1 in 6 is ’stuck’ in government handout programs.”
Right. It used to be twice as high before those programs.
Usually if there is one deer, there are others. In populated areas, if you see a deer it is best to report it to the Sheriff Department who can then notify the appropriate agency (highway departments) to go out and survey the area to see if a deer crossing sign needs to be put up.
Why? Because urban areas often disrupt the travel patterns of deer and they will alter their routes, so drivers need to be warned that deer are in the area.
On the darker side, the Sheriff Department and the Department of Wildlife often carry lists of people that will pick up deer for consumption. Road kill and all that…
So, GMC, you favor eliminating the military budget and holding bake sales? Make the military budget entirely dependent on private donations?
Cool.
I’m for that too . . .
Let’s see some stats on that Capn.
Show us how successful the war on poverty has been.
What percent of the American population is in poverty today, vs 1968?
$5 million annually, guaranteed for life.
So everyone, janitor to ceo, should make the same pay, same benefits same bonuses. Where does that leave the motivation to excel?
Live in the real world capn. Do y’all have ‘projects’ there? Places for low/no income folks to live? How’s that neighborhood look?
You give it away and it isn’t respected nor valued. Get a clue.
Just WHAT in recent history would make us believe the feds competent to run the health care system?
England
Canada
Japan
France
Germany
Spain
Switzerland
Norway
Denmark
Holland
Belgium
Finland
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/18/opinion/18krugman.html
From Paul Krugman, “Poverty Poisons Childrens’ Brains”
L. B. J. declared his “War on Poverty” 44 years ago. Contrary to cynical legend, there actually was a large reduction in poverty over the next few years, especially among children, who saw their poverty rate fall from 23 percent in 1963 to 14 percent in 1969.
But progress stalled thereafter: American politics shifted to the right, attention shifted from the suffering of the poor to the alleged abuses of welfare queens driving Cadillacs, and the fight against poverty was largely abandoned.
In 2006, 17.4 percent of children in America lived below the poverty line, substantially more than in 1969. And even this measure probably understates the true depth of many children’s misery.
None of which are the US, or are in significant ways anything like the US.
And you’re welcome to move to any of them.
ANd some of those countries have better health care and some of those countries have worse health care (depends of the definitions used). So? ANd the Japanese have one of the highest suicide rates among industrialized nations. Or did. So, better health care – higher suicide rate? Of course not. Neither does government run health care guarantee better health care. Bet it wouldn;t take me long to drum up some countries with government run health care that are ‘worse” than ours, now would it.
US Poverty Rate
2006 12.3%
1996 13.7%
1986 13.6%
1976 11.8%
1966 14.7%
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov2.html
That War on Poverty has been very successful?
Right.
US Unemployment Rate
2006 4.63%
1996 5.41%
1986 7.00%
1976 7.70%
1966 3.79%
http://www.miseryindex.us/URbyyear.asp
Case in point capn,
Woman Pleads Guilty to Fraud for Collecting Welfare as Adopted Children Starved
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356864,00.html
“So everyone, janitor to ceo, should make the same pay, same benefits same bonuses.”
Of course not.
But it is hard to fathom, on the other hand, how a CEO of a large company in the 1960’s was only worth 40 times the pay of an average worker and now that same CEO is valued at about 500 times.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/26/news/economy/ceo_pay/
The CEO of Walmart makes more in two weeks than a floorworker will make in her entire life.
The Top 25 hedge fund managers make an average of 11 million dollars . . . . .
A week.
This is ridiculous. It’s a class war, and the rich are winning.
Hundreds of millions of dollars donated to the Osama Obama campaign and none for the poor and starving.
But wait, Osama Obama wants to use your tax dollars, about 1 percent of the GDP to send your dollars OUT of the country to help those poor.
BS, Sol.
For every example you can find of a crack-whore nickle and diming the system, I can find you a thousand millionaires in legal scams getting richer at tax-payer expense.
Besides, the crack-whore was found guilty and punished. The rich never are because what they do is perfectly legal. Why do you think they buy the lawmakers off?
Numbers in poverty
1976 11.8%
1966 14.7%
I think a three percent reduction, which represents tens of millions of people, represents a real success.
Too bad Reagan came along and gutted everything so he could spend more on the military-industrial complex . . . i.e., crony capitalism.
Good afternoon Capn!
Unbelievable! Your ignorance of thermodynamics and physics is only exceeded by your ego!
The CEO of Walmart makes more in two weeks than a floorworker will make in her entire life.
Then maybe the floorworker should strive to be a CEO, or something other than a floor worker.
Or would you just rather hand her a fat check capn?
The Top 25 hedge fund managers make an average of 11 million dollars . . . . .
Bully for them. If that pisses you off, become a hedge fund manager, or you could just STFU and deal with your life choices.
This is ridiculous. It’s a class war, and the rich are winning.
Bumper sticker hype BS capn.
“None [of those countries] are the US, or are in significant ways anything like the US.”
You’re right, GMC.
In terms of wealth inequality, the US is much more like Mexico, Brazil and Russia than Europe or Japan.
Great role models there, eh?
LBJ started the war on poverty 50 years ago??
Damn funny — I could swear Eisenhower was Preident 50 years ago…
Johnson wasnt Pres. till Nov, 1963 — and the war on Poverty didnt come till later after that… not sure the exact year.. but certainly NOT 50 years ago… Geez, now we are re-writing the Calendar to make room for right wing pot shots??
C’mon folks… lets at least try to keep the statements REAL…
capn– methinks the definition of poverty has changed over the years.
In terms of wealth inequality
So let’s take from the successful and give to the lazy.
Again capn, you have a list of socialist countries. The US is not one of them. Feel free to move to the socialist country of your choosing.
Unemployment rate
2006 4.63%
And jr still can’t get a job.
Another content-free post by Sol.
Typical.
The reason the CEO’s make 10 times more relative to their workers than they did in the ’60’s is just because they work so much harder and they’re so much more valuable, right, Sol?
It couldn’t have anything to do with government policies and regulations that have made it easier for Boards and CEO’s to collude on salaries or time stock options to insure maximum returns.
No, according to Sol, it’s just natural and inevitable. Nobody plans it, nobody can control it. It’s just the way it is.
If God had wanted more rich people, why did he make so many poor people, right Sol?
Why isn’t wunnerful public edukation improving the minds of the cheeldren?
Below is a formatted version of the data displayed in the chart.
United States Federal, State,and Local Government Spending Fiscal Years 1970 to 2006
Amounts in $ billion Year Total Education
1970 56.5
1971 63.5
1972 71.4
1973 75.8
1974 81.4
1975 95.8
1976 107.3
1977 114.6
1978 127.2
1979 138.7
1980 152
1981 164.6
1982 168
1983 177.1
1984 189.5
1985 206.5
1986 215.6
1987 230.7
1988 246.2
1989 270.5
1990 292.2
1991 328.9
1992 337.5
1993 356.8
1994 361.4
1995 391.5
1996 406
1997 427.7
1998 458.2
1999 487.7
2000 525.3
2001 565.4
2002 603.1
2003 635.7
2004 664.9
2005 704.1
2006 749.8
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=1970_2007&view=1&expand=&units=b&fy=fy09&chart=F0-total_20-total&stack=0&title=Total%20Spending
And, ummmm, what would that $$$$ amount from 1970 be equal to in terms of 2006 $$$$ ???
“Bet it wouldn;t take me long to drum up some countries with government run health care that are ‘worse” than ours, now would it.”
Actually, it would, LJ.
Cuba has a longer life expectancy than we do here, and they’re 36th on the scale. We’re 37th.
So, I don’t know what industrialized country you’re likely to find that’s worse off than we are.
littlejohn posted May 21, 2008 at 9:24 am
“2) THe small portion of ANWR set aside for oil development is allowed to be developed.
littlejohn stupidly believes that almost the ENTIRE Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is only a “small portion” of the Refuge.
A speculative map of what the 2,000-acre “limit” allows,
http://www.inforain.org/Northslope/anwr_3.html
The “smallest footprint ever” Alpine oil field touted by pro-drillers. 5 more drill sites were approved on Dec. 4, 2004 — and they want “… 24 more production drill sites, 122 more miles of roads, 7 more airports, 150 miles of pipeline, and 1262 more acres of tundra smothered by gravel.”
http://www.wilderness.org/Library/Documents/upload/AlpineNoEnvironmentalShowpiece.pdf
‘Potential Impacts of Oil and Gas Development on Refuge Resources’
http://arctic.fws.gov/issues1.htm#section4
Way to lie with statistics, Max
Year Total. Federal Spending. . . . .Education Spending
1970 . . . . . . . .321.8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .56.5 .
2007 .. . . . . . 4823.1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 749.6
You can clearly see that from a percentage basis, the Federal gov’t was spending 18 percent of budget on education in 1970. In 2007, just over 15 percent.
Nice try, but these stats show the opposite of what you wanted them to. Spending for education under the CONs is going down, not up.
Correction–that’s total governmental spending on education, not just Federal.
AND I got the information from Max’s link–I just included the part he left out.
Only Capn could argue that going from 56.5 to 749.6 is going DOWN.
GMC70: Look at the standards of livinging in those countries (add Australia and New Zealand plus a lots more) longevity, along with education and crime stats. Of the top 40 countries who claim to support the free enterprise system, and have representative govenments, only 3 do not have universal health coverage. Turkey, Mexico and the US. I’m not saying that the US should have it, just don’t denegrate them what does! The aims and objects of universal coverage is to provide care based soley on need and the the ability to pay. That carries a lot of problems just like the US system does,but it is an tremendous persuit. Imagine trying to make you well, not make a buck off illness. I got family in two of the countries noted above and they just wince or laugh when they hear their “socilaized” medicine stigmatized by those who never have experienced it.
Capn has obviously not been exposed to the masses on government aid. You have some infantile perception of nirvana and that the government should take care of everything.
Go out and see some of these folks. Able bodied men and women that have become fat and lazy on the government dime. Able to work, but would rather ‘get it for free’. Take a walk in reality once or twice capn. Might open your eyes.
Throwing money and government regulations at ‘problems’ is absolutely no answer. Ever. But keep shilling your socialism.
Problem is, I think you know how wonderful Capitalism is. Why else would you still be here? Why else would you not move to one of the socialist countries you are so proud of?
Max’s figures take no account of inflation and the growth of overall wealth and productivity.
Also the vastly greater number of children educated today than in 1970.
So calculating in all that, the spending is less–that’s why it is less as a percentage of total taxation spent.
“[People] able to work, but would rather ‘get it for free’.”
I know.
Regular.
As for moving to another country, I’ve lived in other countries for years at a time.
I want to live in my own country now, thank you very much.
Unlike the CONs, I want to make it better, and last time I checked, you could still try to do that here.
OK I will try this again >>>>
And, ummmm, what would that $$$$ amount from 1970 be equal to in terms of 2006 $$$$ ???
Unlike the CONs, I want to make it better, and last time I checked, you could still try to do that here.
better = socialist? Me thinks not.
Yeah, he doesn’t know, Chas.
Because it doesn’t seem to make his case if he uses “constant” dollars instead of “nominal” dollars.
By the Captain
“So, I don’t know what industrialized country you’re likely to find that’s worse off than we are.”
Here’s one example
Overall Cancer Survival Rates. According to the survey of cancer survival rates in Europe and the United States, published recently in Lancet Oncology:1
American women have a 63 percent chance of living at least five years after a cancer diagnosis, compared to 56 percent for European women. [See Figure I.]
American men have a five-year survival rate of 66 percent — compared to only 47 percent for European men.
Among European countries, only Sweden has an overall survival rate for men of more than 60 percent.
For women, only three European countries (Sweden, Belgium and Switzerland) have an overall survival rate of more than 60 percent.
These figures reflect the care available to all Americans, not just those with private health coverage. Great Britain, known for its 50-year-old government-run, universal health care system, fares worse than the European average: British men have a five-year survival rate of only 45 percent; women, only 53 percent
Sol — I still think you all need to DEFINE what evils you see in Socialist countries…
Sol says, “Me thinks not.”
Oh . . . I wouldn’t go that far. Sometimes you do think, you just don’t think much . . .
Okay, that lawn isn’t mowing itself.
I’m outta here for now . . .
CapN — get a couple goats — cheaper than mower gas!! LOL
REALLY! LJ
Wow. If I get cancer, I’ll feel so much better knowing that I have an 8 percent chance of living a year or two longer here.
Meanwhile, how do you explain the 10 years or so LONGER the Europeans live than we do?
Predestined: That’s an excellent suggestion. The prob is – my home PC is still broken, and Brokeback Bertha (that would be moi) can’t afford to get the gd-ed thang fixed. Moreover, I can’t afford Internet connection for my home – I’m using this PC during my breaks at work.
But it’s an excellent suggestion. If I had me own blog, the big broadola could call the shots. That would be way cool. If I’m still alive ‘n kickin’ a year from now, I may do just that.
(And if someone offends MY sensibilities, they’d be the eunuch, not the estrogen temple…)
CapN — get a couple goats — cheaper than mower gas!! LOL
Sheeples are better than goats. Osama Obama has millions of Sheeple. Perhaps they’ll come graze the Crapn’s lawn.
CapnAmerica
Posted May 21, 2008 at 9:17 am | Permalink
…
Lastly, you walk a lot more which is why Europeans…
CapnAmerica
Posted May 21, 2008 at 2:05 pm | Permalink
Meanwhile, how do you explain the 10 years or so LONGER the Europeans live than we do?
Looks like you answered your question before you asked it. Take a look at the lifestyles of Americans and Europeans. Ya think that might have anything to do with it?
Let me guess, now you want the government to step deeper into our lives and tell us when and what to eat, how to get from here to there. What heart rate to maintain for how long…
“Meanwhile, how do you explain the 10 years or so LONGER the Europeans live than we do?”
————–
As usual CapnA is full of it. Honestly Capn, do you post false crap just to see what you can get away with?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
“Wow. If I get cancer, I’ll feel so much better knowing that I have an 8 percent chance of living a year or two longer here.
Meanwhile, how do you explain the 10 years or so LONGER the Europeans live than we do?”
I’ll take the percentage. ANd where do you get the 10% longer? The source below shows much lower than a 10% difference. .ANd there are lifestyles and genetics to consider, not just the state of healthcare. Your statistic is way too large, and way too nonspecific, to have any meaning as a comparison of healthcare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
“Wow. If I get cancer, I’ll feel so much better knowing that I have an 8 percent chance of living a year or two longer here.
Meanwhile, how do you explain the 10 years or so LONGER the Europeans live than we do?”
I’ll take the percentage. ANd where do you get the 10% longer? The source below shows much lower than a 10% difference. .ANd there are lifestyles and genetics to consider, not just the state of healthcare. Your statistic is way too large, and way too nonspecific, to have any meaning as a comparison of healthcare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
“Let me guess, now you want the government to step deeper into our lives and tell us when and what to eat, how to get from here to there. What heart rate to maintain for how long…”
Sol, they already ARE!! Now they are making it more difficult to TRAVEL — at least by plane — Amer. Airlines is now charging $15 PER BAG on a flight… They are trying to limit where we travel… how often… etc.
This is possibly the very beginning of the governmnet facist takeover…. You all should like that!!
Chas-
American Airlines is the government?
OK OK Let’s quote the RIGHT numbers, L J — CapN didnt say anything about PERCENTAGES… READ PLEASE????
“Meanwhile, how do you explain the 10 years or so LONGER the Europeans live than we do?”
“Wow. If I get cancer, I’ll feel so much better knowing that I have an 8 percent chance of living a year or two longer here”
sorry, 8% better survival rate does not equate to 8% chance of living longer.
sample a = 60
sample b – 52
sample a is 115% of sample b.
chance of survival 15% better in US. And that includes 5 year survival rates and everyone, not just those with insurance.
Chas
Posted May 21, 2008 at 2:15 pm | Permalink
So how long has the government owned American Airlines?
If you hadn’t noticed, fuel is expensive. It takes more fuel to move more weight.
Now here is a concept that will be foreign to you; paying your own way. If you bring on more weight, you pay more. Very simple, very fair.
“Meanwhile, how do you explain the 10 years or so LONGER the Europeans live than we do?”
Lifestyle
Diet
Exercise
Genetics
…
Chas
“Posted May 21, 2008 at 2:19 pm | Permalink
OK OK Let’s quote the RIGHT numbers, L J — CapN didnt say anything about PERCENTAGES… READ PLEASE????”
what are you talking about? The question was about healthcare. Percentage of those surviving more than 5 years with cancer is a component of healthcare, is it not? I can read just fine.
Dear Hank Price,
Thank you for the Roanoke, Virginia newspaper editorial. It’s one of the most inaccurate and dumbest columns you’ve posted so far — and that’s saying a lot.
Two examples,
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/162448
“Thoele, of Fincastle, has been an analytical chemist for 32 years in the pharmaceutical and personal health care industries.
In the 1960s and 1970s, they claimed global cooling because of several years of colder than “normal” temperatures.
Academia and certain think tanks claimed this cooling was from too much CO2 (carbon dioxide) in the atmosphere.
That died down and then came a warming spell, so we are now experiencing global warming, because of too much CO2 in the atmosphere.”
——-
1) Aerosols, not “too much CO2″, cause cooling.
2) The dominant view in the 1970’s was warming, not cooling.
‘The global cooling mole’ (as in the game of Whack-a-mole)
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/03/the-global-cooling-mole/
“During the period we analyzed, climate science was very different from what you see today. There was far less integration among the various sub-disciplines that make up the enterprise. Remote sensing, integrated global data collection and modeling were all in their infancy. But our analysis nevertheless showed clear trends in the focus and conclusions the researchers were making.
Between 1965 and 1979 we found (see table 1 for details):
* 7 articles predicting cooling
* 44 predicting warming
* 20 that were neutral
In other words, during the 1970s, when some would have you believe scientists were predicting a coming ice age, they were doing no such thing. The dominant view, even then, was that increasing levels of greenhouse gases were likely to dominate any changes we might see in climate on human time scales.”
——-
And as Capn pointed out at 9:07 am, Hank’s author does not even understand the basics of the “greenhouse” effect.
American has reportedly had a $1.9 BILLION increae in fuel prices with the price of oil increasing… Government doesnt own American… obviously… BUT, the government could do much more than it is doing to hold down oil prices… which limits the number of planes they can fly, which has an effect on weight… HOWEVER, Southwest still does NOT charge extra for up to TWO bags… and has not cut back on the number of flights… Something strange is happening….
L J you quoted a 10% figure earlier!! I think you are getting your percentages mixed up… Perhaps we are referring to two different posts???
Sol — I think the term is “price gouging”
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/
Chas-
You are right, I said that 10% longer, instead of 10 years longer, which is what CapnAmerica stated. However, makes not difference, really. THe table I provided a link to shows much less than 10 years, and not even closer to 10%.
Sol — I think the term is “price gouging”
If you are referring to the oil companies, congress disagrees with you.
If you are referring to the airlines, you missed the bus on that one. American may be starting a new trend to combat the fuel prices. SW may be more stable and able to absorb more of the cost.
“American has reportedly had a $1.9 BILLION increae in fuel prices with the price of oil increasing… Government doesnt own American… obviously… BUT, the government could do much more than it is doing to hold down oil prices… which limits the number of planes they can fly, which has an effect on weight… HOWEVER, Southwest still does NOT charge extra for up to TWO bags… and has not cut back on the number of flights… Something strange is happening”
How does that translate to:
This is possibly the very beginning of the governmnet facist takeover…. You all should like that!!
….selling used Geo Metros – 39mpg highway…
Prices are pro rata per wallet size…
the government could do much more than it is doing to hold down oil prices
What would you have the government do?
My Metro is only 3 Cyl. I get 45 – 48 mpg and it aint for sale!! LOL
Hey Reg,
I drive a ‘96 Geo Tracker, 4 cyl engine… and I’m still paying $35 every two weeks for gas, and I rarely drive more than 10 miles a day!
L J — Typical facist tactics include limitations of travel, setting groups against each other, into splinter off shoots, with much disharmony, making divisions of wealth more “important” than necessary, various attempts at religious divisions among people, and a host of others… including chaotic conditions in communications, whether it be radio, tv, newspapers, internet, etc. —
Facists depend on dividing people, controlling freedoms by threatening lack of security, and other means… Once people are divided, they can be conquered easily…
CHAS-
I am sorry, but your post of American now charging for luggage as an indicator of “beginning of the governmnet facist takeover” just doesn;t cut it. ANd as for
” setting groups against each other, into splinter off shoots, with much disharmony, making divisions of wealth more “important” than necessary”
those are typically used as tactics by the “liberal left”
Facists depend on dividing people, controlling freedoms by threatening lack of security, and other means…
Sounds like Bush, McCain, Obama and Hilary.
Once people are divided, they can be conquered easily…
sounds like the current state in America.
L J — you would consider Nazi Germany, and Mussolini’s Italy to be leftist?? Hmmmm…
“various attempts at religious divisions among people,” often used by the religion right, I agree.
“including chaotic conditions in communications, whether it be radio, tv, newspapers, internet, etc. — ”
Don;t see that much.
“Facists depend on dividing people, controlling freedoms by threatening lack of security, and other means… Once people are divided, they can be conquered easily…”
Agree, but the AMerican Airlines example has nothing to do with anything you project as “fascist”
“
L J — Just do a fast review of how Hitler came to power in Germany, and you will see I am not at all wrong….
Shoot, look at the Patriot Act we have in place here… and you can see a skeletal outline of the same kind of thing…
“Chas
Posted May 21, 2008 at 3:07 pm | Permalink
L J — you would consider Nazi Germany, and Mussolini’s Italy to be leftist?? Hmmmm”
No suggesiton of either one. I see the hyphenated American, and the “victimization” of the same as a tool of the left. I suggest the “constant” clamoring for “financial equity” as a tool of the lfeft. More properly, politicians of the left
Try to look at these issues as American issues, instead of partisan issues… which, in my opinion these ARE American rather than partisan issues…
There are large portions of the patriot act that need revisited. And deleted. What has that got to do with American Airlines charging for baggage?
making divisions of wealth more “important” than necessary”
those are typically used as tactics by the “liberal left”
Damn, you’re right. I don’t like him, but I don’t see McCain disparaging differing income levels. Edwards was all over it. Same with Clinton and Obama. Funny thing is they are worth about what? 5 times what they consider the ‘evil rich’? Hypocrisy?
I see the usage of the hyphenated American, by anyone, as an attempt to divide and conquer.
Financial equity?? L J that was one of the huge talking points of Lenin and Trotsky in Revolutionary Russia!! Check your history, man!
All airlines charge extra for extra luggage. and the reason is simple everytime fuel costs rise a penny they lose millions of dollars in reveune, to fuel costs, airliners weren’t designed for 100 dollar a barrel oil.
My quote
“constant” clamoring for “financial equity” as a tool of the lfeft. More properly, politicians of the left”
“Financial equity?? L J that was one of the huge talking points of Lenin and Trotsky in Revolutionary Russia!! Check your history, man!”
Your point being what? That todays American left is the same as Lenini and Trotsky?
Ethnic (hyphenated) divisions is not exactly what I was referring to, but yes, you can include that in divide/conquer as well…
Nazi Germany
Mussolini’s Italy
Hitler
Patriot Act
Lenin
Trotsky
_____________________________________________
American airlines charging for baggage.
Forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but there is a huge disconnect between these. I fail to come close to seeing similarities.
L J — Typical facist tactics include
limitations of travel,
setting groups against each other, into splinter off shoots, with much disharmony,
making divisions of wealth more “important” than necessary,
various attempts at religious divisions among people, and a host of others…
including chaotic conditions in communications, whether it be radio, tv, newspapers, internet, etc
—————————————
Look like Liberal progressive agenda items to me.
Still, what has any of that got to do with American Airlines charging for baggage? Again, you stated
“Sol, they already ARE!! Now they are making it more difficult to TRAVEL — at least by plane — Amer. Airlines is now charging $15 PER BAG on a flight… They are trying to limit where we travel… how often… etc.
This is possibly the very beginning of the governmnet facist takeover…. You all should like that!!
How do you justify your statement?
About cancer surival rates, it depends on what kinds of cancer we are discussing. Some are more treatable than others so I wonder what the apples-to-apples numbers are. The Scots have the worst diet, get no exercise, drink way, way to much, earning the title “Sick Man of Europe”. The Nordic countries are at the other end of the scale so it must be the life styles. As to the health systems. A Toronto cousin visiting mutual family in the UK, lost her prescription so went to a hospital in Glasgow where a doctor took down her history and wrote her a new script which was filled by a “chemist”… no charge from the medico or drugs save for the dispensing fee. Then she had to go into emergency at Queen Mary hospital(London)a week later where a full work-up as done with the advice that a gall bladder procedure was needed. Upon finding out whe was leaving for Toronto the next day they advised waiting until she got home. Again, no charges in London….and she’s not a citizen of the UK! When she got home the medicos agreed with the report she carried from London and was on the table in 2 days. I was amazed by the story and have no reason to doubt her.
I wish I still had my Geo Metro. I loved that little thing and drove the crap out it, even chasing escaped dairy cattle through pastures in it. If anybody needs parts from a 1992 Geo Metro, I know where you can get some. ;)
sursum-
Here are just a few examples from the same report
Of cancers that affect primarily men, the survival rate among Americans for bladder cancer is 15 percentage points higher than the European average; for prostate cancer, it is 28 percentage points higher.2
Of cancers that affect women only, the survival rate among Americans for uterine cancer is about 5 percentage points higher than the European average; for breast cancer, it is 14 percentage points higher.
The United States has survival rates of 90 percent or higher for five cancers (skin melanoma, breast, prostate, thyroid and testicular), but there is only one cancer for which the European survival rate reaches 90 percent (testicular).
Furthermore, the Lancet Oncology study found that lung cancer patients in the United States have the best chance of surviving five years — about 16 percent — whereas patients in Great Britain have only an 8 percent chance, which is lower than the European average of 11 percent.
Sursum,
Does Europe have the same immigration problems we do? Just asking…
“raising one in six America children in poverty–as our society currently does–costs some 500 billion dollars in ”
Funny thing about that Capn, “society” doesn’t raise children. Parents do. And the funny thing about parents – the more free money you give them, the more perpetual their environment becomes. Generations, to quote President Clinton -live on welfare.
Government does not raise children, nor teach children not to live lives of crime.
You could throw the entire amount spent on national defense at them, but “society”, our government, will never raise one child. (you are fixated on the defense, but you are mixing apples and oranges – government clearly has a responsibility to defend our nation).
Like you actually said Capn:
“There’s no free lunch in a modern society”
Everybody has to pay in order for it to function.
When some do not pay, someone else is.
sursum,
I’ve heard similar stories from visitors to Great Britain and the excellent (and often free) care they received.
Bet an Englishman wouldn’t be able to say the same about here in the States.
OK bright ones… The Americn Airlines issue is just one piece of the transportation issues… Just ONE piece… it is not the crux of the problem… IF government policies can cause breakdown in transportation availability, people are more easily controlled by region/geography… THAT is the fit… Combine that with the really big lack of RAIL travel, and we are down to ground transportation via car, bus, etc.
When those means are compromised by continued oil price increases, people are then limited financially with travel distance… Travel is then more regionally controllable….
Please note that there are SOME who have proposed check points being established between STATE LINES… similar to national boundaries… These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…
“And, ummmm, what would that $$$$ amount from 1970 be equal to in terms of 2006 $$$$ ???”
Are you talking about the Defense Budget? Let’s see those figures as well….
“….lung cancer patients in the United States have the best chance of surviving five years — about 16 percent — whereas patients in Great Britain have only an 8 percent chance, which is lower than the European average of 11 percent.”
I do not disagree with those figures — But the difference in pollution controls in England and the rest of Europe and the US can account for quite a bit of that… Mainland Europe and the US have made great strides on controlling air pollution, and pollutions in the industrial work places…
I also believe that mainland Europe and the US have better early detection practices… I dont think it has a whole lot to do with health care availability…. after all, 16% isnt real good either!!
“However, I would support a system the controls costs and provides essential health care for all who need it.”
I’m sorry CapnAmerica, Chas, and even JR, please don’t sit around waiting for Uncle Sugar to give you FREE HEALTHCARE. Nor to subsidize those that already have it.
None of the candidates will actually do that. Even if they tried, there is that pesky 9 TRILLION DOLLAR DEBT you keep referring to (so conservative of you).
At best, there will be a proposal to provide healthcare insurance for the 15 million ONLY who have no coverage. But that will include mandatory payments from those in that total who have income or an employer offering coverage.
You are dreaming, the impossible dream.
It’s not even in the blue cards.
AmWay — catch up… those numbers were in reference to Education expenditures…
“I do not disagree with those figures — But the difference in pollution controls in England and the rest of Europe and the US can account for quite a bit of that… Mainland Europe and the US have made great strides on controlling air pollution, and pollutions in the industrial work places…”
It is about survival rates of those who come down with cancer. not incidences of cancer.
” also believe that mainland Europe and the US have better early detection practices… I dont think it has a whole lot to do with health care availability….”
How do you think those early detection practices come about?
“16% isnt real good either!!”
True, but it’s twice the survival rate of the United Kingdom.
Diane Feinstein’s illegal alien amnesty bill is one step closer to becoming law! Her plan to grant a 5-year amnesty for up to 3 million illegal aliens and their families was attached to the Iraq War supplemental bill, on Thursday, May 15th. Knowing that the war funding bill is desperately needed to support our troops in battle overseas, the amnesty plan was attached covertly in attempts that no one would notice.
The open-borders champions hope that the longer illegal aliens stay the more difficult it will ever be to deny them U.S. citizenship. If it passes, this would open the door for even larger waves of illegal immigration in the future! The vote is expected this week.
human events
“Please note that there are SOME who have proposed check points being established between STATE LINES… similar to national boundaries… These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…”
Please provide a credible link. I would like to see that.
L J — look it up!!
Also, you have some DHS people who want to demand we use passports now to go back and forth to Canada… How will that work out in places like Detroit, and Vancouver, and Buffalo, etc., etc. Just more limits of travel… work… shopping… etc…
L J — People have to GET cancer first, before they can survive it… And survival is not survival to live happily ever after, but rather survival that stretches out life just a little bit longer… of course, the means whereby cancer is gotten is important to the survival rate… IF the air is not as polluted, fewer people will develope the disease… and the survival rate, will increase… Where air pollution and other factors are not clearly addressed, survival rates will be lower… Its just common sense, L J…
Your claim, provide some proof.
Vancouver? Vancouver Washington? Vancouver BC? Which Vancouver?
and isn;t Canada a different country? And how many people from Detroit go to Canad for working or shopping? I am really curious here.
While the Liberal Majority Congress Sits on their hands Oil Prices keep going up
Last week, liberals in Congress voted for the equivalent of a $150 billion tax increase. They voted to make your next trip to the gas station more expensive; to make your next airplane ticket more expensive; to make heating your home more expensive — even to make feeding your family more expensive.
How did they do it? By voting to block environmentally sound production of U.S. energy in favor of continuing to be held hostage to oil from foreign dictatorships. I’ll explain in a minute.
Who’s to blame for our high gas prices? The oil companies? The Saudis? OPEC? The answer, unfortunately, is closer to home: The “No-We-Can’t” Left in Congress.
Last Thursday, with oil at $124 a barrel, liberals on the Senate Appropriations committee voted to block environmentally sound development of oil shale in Colorado.
According to the Investors Business Daily there are an estimated 1 trillion barrels of oil trapped in shale in the U.S. and Canada. Retrieving just a tenth of it would quadruple our current oil reserves.
But the “No-We-Can’t” Left in Congress — as they’re prone to do — said no, and Americans will pay the price. Colorado Senator Wayne Allard (R) put it best when he said: “If we are really serious about reducing pain at the pump, this is a vote that would make a difference in people’s lives.”
As I mentioned, the higher energy prices Americans are paying are the equivalent of a huge tax increase. One economist calculated that the price of oil rising from $80 a barrel to $100 a barrel had the same effect on Americans’ pocket books as a $150 billion tax increase — and the price of oil has risen an additional $27 since then!
So how is it that the liberals in Congress, faced with an opportunity like the one last week to lessen this burden on Americans, could reject it without a second thought?
Once again, the answer seems to boil down to three little words: “No we can’t.”
Our energy and environment challenges are real. But America has the technological know-how and the entrepreneurial spirit to overcome them. And, as I pointed out last week, Americans overwhelmingly support more domestic production of energy to help ease gas prices.
We — not the Saudis or the oil companies — control our energy future. We just need the political will to do so.
High energy prices aren’t theoretical, they have real consequences for real people. The answer, to paraphrase Ronald Reagan, isn’t easy, but it’s simple — so simple it could fit on a bumper sticker:
Drill Here
Drill Now
Pay Less
Newt Gingrich
OK, L J now you’re just flaming… unless you are really that geographically challenged
Chas-
Do you even read what you write?
THis :
“IF the air is not as polluted, fewer people will develope the disease… and the survival rate, will increase…”
indicates that you do not. The survival rate is the rate at which people who contract a particular disease survives at lesat 5 years post diagnosis. It has nothing to do with the rate of contraction. Only the rate that those who contract the disease, survives.
Chas
Posted May 21, 2008 at 3:56 pm | Permalink
OK, L J now you’re just flaming… unless you are really that geographically challenged
Tell me, which? Your statement. I only asked for clarification.
Drill Here
Drill Now
Pay Less
L J — THINK — What cities are connected to Detroit, Vancouver, Buffalo??? The Canadian commute is quite common in all of those… In Detroit, its just almost like crossing the street!! Same in Washington with British Columbia… and in Buffalo, with Niagra…. It would just create a nuisance… not to mention tourist traffic both ways…
Chas- I am not geographically challenged. Vancouver Washington is no where near a foreign country, unless you want to count Portland. Vancouver BC is in a foreign country, and we don;t set their passport laws. I am just curious as to why you would list one city in another country along with the two American cities?
Re: Cancer — the rate of people contracting the disease is most assuredly related to the “survival” rate… Dont take my word for it… Check it out on WebMD, or Centers for Disease Control, or a myriad of other sources… I am not going to argue with you about facts that are WELL in evidence!! Geez!
So, what city is it that is just across the border from Seattle?? And, if this goes through, we WILL have a say over Canadian passports coming IN… as well as our people returning FROM Canada — another one of DHS’s FEAR tactics!!
Good night Chas–God Bless, whatever you conceive him to be.
That ladies and gentlemen, is a display of why not to discuss anything with Chas. It’s entirely pointless.
Excuse me… It is Vancouver BC… and its connection with the Seattle area… so sorry!!
L J I just dont think you get it… But, give it some thought…. I think you will catch on later…. :-)
Chas-
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/Seattle+WA/Vancouver+BC/
pretty long connection there sparky!
I am sure that will really hurt the international blue collar daily commuter….2.5hrs, 140mi, 2 nations and all…
…
Drill Here
Drill Now
Pay Less
According to Obama, saving 18.4 cents per gallon of gas is nothing, so 36.8 cents is almost nothing, and 55.2 cents is next to nothing. Quit griping about the gas prices. Obama knows.
Oil drilling and refining in this country slowed to a near crawl during the 80s. It can be argued that this was thanks to Reagan’s foreign policy with OPEC nations to overproduce oil, to help bankrupt the USSR (one of the largest producers of oil at the time)
The cause is irrelevant. The oil glut of the 80s almost bankrupted the same oil companies that are the so called “fatcats” today. The leverage buyout attempts of Phillips by T-Bone Pickins, Carl Icon (sp?) are just a couple of the examples of the volatility of oil during the 80s. I didn’t see Congress trying to save my dad’s job in 1986 when Phillips had to can him (a chemical engineer) after 30 years.
Right now, my Valero bill is $37 more per month than last year. And it is still much less than the cost of a new car.
Regular, I can somewhat agree with the notion of Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay less. But if the OPEC supply of oil goes back up and domestic oil companies can’t turn a profit (like the 80s) are we going to continue subsidizing the oil companies so that they can still drill for oil?
Sure LLVET, tie the subsidy to the market and profitability standard. Higher the profit, the lower the subsidy.
I understand that. But considering a possible lack of profitability similar to the 80s, It would have to be a much higher subsidy. That dog aint gonna hunt.
Now if say, ConocoPhillips had been using todays profits to look into long range domestic production, then we might not be in that bad of a shape.
According to my Brother-In-Law down in Houston (a ConocoPhillips employee) they aren’t. Even Terry (that’s his name) doesn’t understand why they are not.
You’re just flaming ANTI — I already made my apology… Geez… READ please!!!
Chas
Posted May 21, 2008 at 4:09 pm | Permalink
Excuse me… It is Vancouver BC… and its connection with the Seattle area… so sorry!!
Well, let me rephrase that. Unless the price of oil remains high, domestic production can’t turn a profit. If the price is too low, domestic production will never be efficient enough to compete.
I own several hundred share of Phillips stock (COP)
2 years ago it was at around $63/share.
1 year ago it was at $75
Today it’s at $93
They are doing fine.
ANTI — Nit pick it all you want… you are totally missing the POINT!! Geez!!
Geez!
Chas,
I think the Canada passport thing is already fixed up to go soon. I’ll check with my daughter as soon as she gets here, but passports and who needs them when is part of her job. And I think those passports will be needed for coming into the U.S. from Canada, not going out. But don’t quote me on that.
Re: Canada and Passports >>>>
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/04/05/passports050405.html
Chas:-There is no big problem for the commuters to and from border cities, the locals just deal with it. I think there is a special passes/protocols daily commuters use to get through customs quicker. Many health care/essential workers live cross the border and there are thousands who go to Sabres, Red Wings, Bills, Tigers and Lion games. Anybody entering or returning to the US icluding Americans will have to have passports eventually. The Canadians have been tighter on this all along anyway, the US is just getting up to speed.
I have no reason to doubt that they are Fleetwood.
Sol: I don’t know abou the immigrant numbers in the EU, but Australia and Canada each take in a about 8-10% of their population every year. That must be some burden for them with a population of less than 3 people per sq. km.
Oil companies pay a lot of taxes.
“During 2005, these three companies paid a combined corporate income tax burden of $44.3 billion on their reported gross earnings. Compared to last year’s combined corporate income taxes of $29.7 billion, their burden for 2005 has increased by 49.2 percent and follows the overall trend of escalating corporate tax collections in the United States. In addition to corporate income taxes, the same companies paid or remitted over $114.5 billion in other taxes in 2005, including franchise, payroll, property, severance and excise taxes.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/03/business/yourmoney/03view.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=login&oref=slogin
snip
While the administration may oppose government-run health care in principle, the government’s role in the vast health industry has been expanding. By various measures, the United States is about halfway toward a system in which the government and taxpayers fully fund health care. And trends are pushing the government to become more involved each year.
Out of a total population of about 300 million, 35.6 million elderly Americans were on Medicare in 2005. Of the working-age population, which reached 257.8 million in 2005, some 45.5 million were covered by Medicare, Medicaid or military health programs, according to the benefits institute. An additional 18.2 million workers had health insurance through jobs in the public sector, which includes state, federal and local governments, public schools and state universities, according to Paul Fronstin, director of the institute’s health research and education program. Millions of those workers’ dependents are covered as well. Even if those dependents are not included in the tally, taxpayers paid the bill for almost two-fifths of all Americans with insurance in 2005.
But that’s not the full extent of government and taxpayer involvement. Employer-provided health insurance premiums are a form of compensation, yet are not subject to federal payroll or income taxes and are exempt from many state and local taxes. Economists consider these exemptions a form of subsidy. Thomas M. Selden, economist at the federal Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, estimates that the tax subsidy for employment-related coverage at $208.6 billion in 2006, or 35.4 percent of the amount spent on premiums.
“The tax subsidy is one of the largest public expenditures on health care,”
So after let me count…14 years of debilitating pain in my back, and insurance run around, I finally got my epidural today.
Went to Wichita, saw a wonderful Dr. Jensen, who used a fluroscope to guide the long needle into my spine. And yeah it wasn’t pleasant, but it didn’t last a long time.
When I came out I had no pain whatsoever, I was so happy. But it wasn’t too long before I realized that some of that was from the local anesthestic. I’ve been wiggling around, taking it easy around the house, because I’ve been warned not to overdo it like I usually do when I feel halfway decent. So I’m fixing here in a bit to go for my first walk in YEARS. He says it can take up to 3 days to get full effect, but I’ll say right now I’m at about 50% of the pain I had before.
I might have to go back to get injections in the SI joint itself, I’ll wait and see, but right now just be happy for me. If I can get this pain under control, you’re going to see a huge change in me- life altering…I’ll be GONE..a lot. This has taken too much of my life already.
_________________
“Politics is like driving a car. If you want to move forward, put the transmission in D. If you want to move backwards, put the trans in R. And if you want to go nowhere, put it in ‘N’ader.” Anthony Hensley, D-Topeka.
“Please note that there are SOME who have proposed check points being established between STATE LINES… similar to national boundaries… These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…”
Note: Chas’ tinfoil twists a little tighter.
This is one of the more bizarre claims made here. You made the claim, Chas, you have the burden to back it up. But you can’t, of course; that tinfoil hat interferes with thinking.
By the end of the night, you’ll be denying you wrote it, or come up with some bogus explanation that it doesn’t really say what it says, or means what it means.
Again.
GMC — Why would I deny writing that?? I’ve been hearing it for over a year… I have seen nothing yet that says that such a plan does not exist… From all I have heard, it has some connection to plans that are possibilities under DHS… I consider it quite aggressive if true… Fear mongering, if it is false…
Since you are a prosecutor, perhaps you have some resources to check into it??
“I’ve been hearing it for over a year… I have seen nothing yet that says that such a plan does not exist…”
I have heard no plans to eliminate all the UFO’s either. hmmmmmm
Chas –
You made the claim, you carry the burden. Knock yourself out. And you don’t just pass on a claim that “some have proposed.”
No, you go further. You write that “They are real.”
That’s a pretty affirmative claim. Is there any support for same? Your burden, Chas, your claim.
As far as the other: “Why would I deny writing that??”
Because that is your usual modus operandi when caught peddling BS. It’s happened before, again, and again. Either that, or come up with a blatently unbelievable explanation to cover your tracks (i.e., the obit with the mysterious bold was posted to highlight organ donation – Riiiight!)
I’m just predicting you’ll continue true to form. I’d also guess “Square Peg” will make an “appearance” to defend you. We’ll see, won’t we?
I don’t know if this is what Chas was referring to but there were fringe groups who thought the U.N. had plans to take over the country. Here is a Web site:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?p=5482527
These groups seemed to arise out of what were called “Patriot” groups in the late 80’s, early 90’s. There was a fairly active group in and around Augusta, Kansas. I assumed they kind of died out after the Oklahoma City bombing and more so after 9/11.
There was a talk radio show from a guy out of Michigan, I think, who was always pointing out these various conspiracy plots. The Trilaterial Commission was one of their favorite groups to hate. I had a barber in the early 90’s who was convinced that the Trilaterial Commission had humiliated Geroge H.W. Bush by putting him in a casket while he was nude and because of this somehow they were able to control him. (I think those guys were just misunderstanding a Yale Fraternity hazing, or something). I quit going to this barber when he told me the stickers on the back of stop signs were color-coded so when the U.N. took over the country, they would know how to redistrict the territory of the U.S. The guy was a good barber and cheap, but after that story I just could not go back.
The website above makes you wonder if these folks are tied to neo-nazi groups or white power groups.
I would be surprised if these characters were up to much these days. The OKC bombing scared them off, I believe any way – or maybe they were subjected to greater scrutiny afterward.
The link above would suggest that the group described there is an offshoot of the K.K.K.
The groups I was thinking of were not quite so malignant. They were the guys who obsessed about the government taking their guns, Ruby Ridge, and government intrusions into their personal lives.
Kind of how Max might sound if he were half-lit on some cheap booze, or just one of his “normal” days of posting on the WEblog.
Well, GMC, here ya go….
http://www.crosscut.com/mossback/1594/
Thanks Steven — I have read extensively about the Patriot groups you refer to above… Very scary people… I attended one of their meetings in SW Kansas in a border town with OK a number of years ago… 1994, I think… Quite scary!!
Back later…
Yea, Steven, I remember those nutty years – it seemed like “Patriot” kooks were coming out of the woodwork.
But that’s not Chas’ cliam. No, he claims that “From all I have heard, it has some connection to plans that are possibilities under DHS…” and that “They are real.”
He’s entered tinfoil hat territory. Much like the tinfoil nuts of the “Patriot” groups days –
shades of black helicopters . . .
Sorry GMC — No black helicopters in that link… Try again to put me down?? You fail at it so frequently!!
Obama only thought Rev. Wright was a problem…
Turns out John Hagee, McCains spiritual adviser, endorser, has stated that HITLER was sent by GOD to move the Jews back to Israel… (MSNBC Countdown)
P_Mom,
Just curious, but is that Dr. Jensen you saw an anesthesiologist or an ob-gyn?
Okay Chas, when did Hagee become McCain’s Spiritual Adviser?
he endorsed mccain
McCain went after Hagee’s endorsement
Ok, and you wingnuts and republican trolls here need to brush up your resumes.
Mcsame is looking for prolls to post his talking points on blogs and such.
hehehehehe. I wonder if the rude pundit will go undercover, like with the wingnut dobson’s prayer group.
hee hee hee…..
I think we need a mole to bust whoever does that here!
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
Pmom, I wish you good luck with those injections. I have a friend who was almost killed in an accident and those kind of treatments gave him a new lease on life. He does all his own farming, rides the bumpy tractor, etc.
I hope you have as much relief as he did! I know. When yer back, hurts, EVERYTHING hurts!
Just dont forget us blog potatoes here :)
PMom,
Back in the day when I was suffering my worst back pain, I went to “Big Willy” Wilford Hall, Lackland AFB, TX and got epidural steroid injections.
Like yourself, I felt immediate relief. In all it took about 10 more trips to make the pain go away for the most part.
Why most Doctors don’t prescribe this treatment, I do not know. All I can say is that it worked on me.
Yeah, having that long needle up your spine is disconcerting and uncomfortable, along with that curled up position they make you get in (with a bad, painful spine), but hey that puppy works!
Oh yeah, the anesthiologists did the injections, because I guess they do it all the time prior to some type of surgeries – lots of experience.
You people really are sheep.
Original ideas? Don’t think so.
“Crooks and Liars is an American political blog founded by John Amato (b. 1958), with liberal political leanings.”
Yeah Reg, my friend could only have them every so often, I think once or twice a year, and needed them MORE often. I havent asked him for a while, but I think he did stop taking them after a while because he didnt need them anymore.
Hell, they dont even want to give ya CORTISONE injections very often because you can only have so many in a lifetime.
I’ve had a pin in my ankle, two discs removed, three vertebrae fused and both my knees replaced. HEH. AND the only things on me that DONT hurt are my knees and back! Of course, now my aches are all of the “I’m getting too old for this” variety.
I hope you all eventually have as much success as possible. Chronic pain is a biotch and it slowly does things to you, and your personality, that you dont even notice until it’s over.
Fleetie, do you have chronic pain in the head? And then it manifests itself as a pain in OUR asses?
Very Good Fleet!! And next time you quote from a right wing publication, we shall remember to make note of it as well!! LOL
Fleetie never posts links. Something about the technology of “cut and paste” that eludes him…
kfg, can we call you “titanium grrl” because of your knees?” :D
Ahhhh ok i will remember that KFG
I think the point is you people surf the far left sites to get your marching orders. Or, more correctly, to get your mind straight.
And even more to the point, you people accuse the right thinkers of being parrots, when it’s just the opposite. It’s a hoot!
Fleet, that is SO much a bi-polar type of statement… my goodness!!
Pleased to be wondering what you mean.
#
Chas
Posted May 21, 2008 at 6:45 pm | Permalink
Well, GMC, here ya go….
http://www.crosscut.com/mossback/1594/
Thanks Steven — I have read extensively about the Patriot groups you refer to above… Very scary people… I attended one of their meetings in SW Kansas in a border town with OK a number of years ago… 1994, I think… Quite scary!!
————
Chas, I am from SW KS and I think I know the group you speak of. I think they have a Latin name. I can’t think of what they were called. If it is the same group, they had some wacked out views and many of them went to jail for tax fraud. Some are still around. What was the groups name that you met with?
Fleet — I am no longer going to argue about points that are already well-known information, and easily looked up… That is where a lot of the flaming, and trolling starts… I will not be a feeder of such behaviors…
The group I met with had no name… There was a posse commitatus group that was fairly large out around Dodge City…
There were also a number of Posse groups in Nebraska back then as well… mostly anti-tax groups… but very heavily armed, and most were considered dangerous…
Chas,
Posse Commitatus was the group I remember. They were scattered all around out there at one time.
Yep they were, and still are in some places… Shoot, at one time they ran a huge Radio Station out of Dodge KTTL …
The really BAD boys were up in NE Kansas, and SE Nebraska… had very close ties to a nationwide group called The Brotherhood…
The Movie, “Betrayed” with Tom Berenger and Debra Wenger, was based on The Brotherhood…
They were noted for skinning a man and his son alive, because they got paranoid, and decided that the man and his son were Fed. plants… They werent!!
Pre- Dr. Jensen is an anesthesiologist (I THINK!). All I know is he was really nice and very good about explaining things.
I felt very very much in good hands.
And KFG is right, pain changes you in so many ways. It’s sad.
Sol: Typo about immigrants for those two countries, I missed a decimal point, it shoud read .8 and 1.% of their population are accepted immigrants.
Has anyone ever bothered to look into Chiropractic care for their pain?
My mother does wonders for so many people and their pain, with no surgery, and no drugs.
fleettwood,
No links & no arguments = no substance. That’s you. Kind of like “no brain, no headache.”
Unless you’re advancing ideas that are up for debate, fleettwood, you’re just taking up space.
Or just stick with the ridicule. Might as well continue to look like the shallow punk you are.
“fleettwood” alleges –
“…you people surf the far left sites to get your marching orders….
“And even more to the point, you people accuse the right thinkers of being parrots, when it’s just the opposite.”
Here’s the only place I know of that’s issuing “marching orders.”
http://tinyurl.com/6ormqf
Chas, Chas, Chas.
This is what you posted, at 2:15, in the midst of claiming that American Airlines’ price increases were signs of a coming “fascist takeover” (it’s hard to type here, as I giggle so much):
Now they are making it more difficult to TRAVEL — at least by plane — Amer. Airlines is now charging $15 PER BAG on a flight… They are trying to limit where we travel… how often… etc.
This is possibly the very beginning of the governmnet facist takeover…. You all should like that!!
—-
Then at 3:29, this tinfoil gem:
“Please note that there are SOME who have proposed check points being established between STATE LINES… similar to national boundaries… These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…”
—-
Note that last bit- “shadow government,” and “they are real.” Just a BIT on the tinhat side, ya think? Who proposed same, Chas? Who is this “shadow gov’t?”
No response.
When called on it, Chas provides zip, zero, nada. Steven remembers, correctly, the 90’s “patriot” kooks and Chas, seeking refuge, latches on to that.
But that’s not what Chas referred to – remember? This is a GOVERNMENT plan to institute a fascist state, one that Chas claims is “real.”
Evidence? Well, none. Facts? None. Rationality? None. Credibility? None.
Where is that “real” plan for “takeover,” Chas? Anywhere at all? Anything?
Nope. As usual.
There are those who have differing opinions here, some left, some right. Some I agree with, some I don’t, on both sides. Then there’s Chas, who just spreads random BS.
I don’t know why you’ve become a special project, Chas. Perhaps because you hold yourself out as something special, regularly reminding us of your degrees and profession. Perhaps because you remind me of the guy at a party who desperately wants to be part of the in group, and needs to pump himself up to be important. I know I should let it go . . . but it’s just too easy. And the claims are so outrageous.
I’ll try to let it go . . . I promise. Try not to hurt yourself with the all caps button, Chas.
My problem is nerve damage Nathan.
No offense, but the last time I tried a Chiropractor, I ended up crawling out on my hands and knees from the clinic.
Not much in my opinion a Chiropractor can do for damaged nerves.
Yeah Nathan, BTDT, there is only so much a chirpractor can do for serious problems. You act as if this is something minor, it isn’t.
And I really can’t afford chiropractic care 3x’s a week for the rest of my life.
GMC you keep flaming like that, you gonna burn yourself, man…. I posted a link… Did you miss it??
Try this: http://www.prisonplanet.com LOTS of links there…
My point is this…
Most of those “serious” problems can be stopped when they are minor with good and regular chiropractic care.
I don’t know your specific medical issues, but I do know that Chiropractic care does wonders for many people.
I have yet to see someone need Chiropractic care 3 tims a week either, except for maybe the first few weeks.
Either way, the cost of that is far far less than any surgery you would get.
“The health and safety of young girls trumps Planned Parenthood’s desire for secrecy.”
. . . ADF Senior Legal Counsel Jeff Shafer
. . .
The Ohio Supreme Court will hear the case against Planned Parenthood’s Cincinnati abortion mill, that committed an illegal abortion on a 14-year-old girl brought in by her rapist, a soccer coach, without notifying authorities or the girl’s parents. The Alliance Defense Fund a friend-of-the-court brief with the Ohio Supreme Court Monday, claiming, as we already know, that Planned Parenthood abortion mills frequently fail to notify authorities when underage children have been sexually abused, adding to a widespread pattern of criminal activity. ADF is asking the Ohio court to reverse an earlier appellate court cover-up ruling preventing the girl and her parents from having access to clinic records that may indicate routine cover-up of statutory rape and other sexual abuse.
Previously, a lawsuit was filed in Warren County, OH against Planned Parenthood, alleging the abortion mill committed an illegal abortion upon a teenage girl and her baby after a father sought the procedure to cover up his sexual abuse of the teen. Planned Parenthood’s secrecy in this case allowed the incest to continue another 18 months.
When Planned Parenthood loses their $300 million in annual federal taxpayer funding, Democrats will lose their huge source of blood-soaked “contributions”, which is why they are encouraging all kinds of obstruction of justice, cover-ups, and stalling tactics in our criminal justice system in a conspiratorial attempt to prevent convictions of Planned Parenthood’s criminal abortionist quacks.
And another one >>>>
http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080505205621AATncLg
Chas,
I seen a link talking about Government ID cards.
Did you post one about those “shadow government” people who want check points going across state lines?
Chas,
Nice link to a blog.
Once again, who are these “shadow government” people wanting to have check points across state lines????
Nathan,
That’s what the difficulty with my condition was/is. That is, it started out as major trauma. It didn’t start small.
I still have lasting effects of it that will never change, numbness in feet and lower legs, constant dull pain along the neural paths from my spine to my feet. However, it is much better than it was.
Chas, I have looked at the links you posted and I have not found anything about “shadow governments” or state border guards.
Can you narrow the links a little?
If you read the link, its in the one about the ID cards… you have to read the whole thing… it’s in there…
Hud,
I am not holding my breath on this. My bet is that Chas will spend about 100 posts denying he ever said anything about a “shadow government” wanting border check points across state lines or simply claim over and over again that he did show proof and demand that we stop asking him….
Mine is nerve involvement too. I went to a highly recommended (by a most trusted source!) chiropractor and came away unable to walk without pain! I had been running before, with less pain. Never experienced that much pain before going to the chiropractor! And, the expense! My insurance paid a healthy amount and I paid a healthier sum. Nope, not gonna try that again!
Once again, Nathan, I am no longer arguing things that are factually available to anybody who takes the time to look it up… Not gonna do that any more…
Chas,
LOL, the only thing about a Shadow Government is from a blog post!
Is that your proof????
Hud,
See Hud? I was right on the money.
First he claimed that it was in the link and now Chas starts to say he is not going to take the time to look it up for us.
LOL
Chas you are an idiot.
Chas, there will never be anything Nathan won’t find fault with! No matter what you post, no matter what you link, nothing will ever be something he won’t find fault with. Been there, done that. Warning you.
Linda,
So you believe that there are Shadow Government types who want state border check points like Chas said?
Give me a break. I am not looking for fault here, Chas is an idiot.
Another one >>>>
http://raenergy.igc.org/BushDynasty.html
Linda,
Do you believe this? Yes or No and why?
“Please note that there are SOME who have proposed check points being established between STATE LINES… similar to national boundaries… These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…”
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/05/open-thread-521/#comment-353883
LOL!
I think we are finally getting to see the crap that feeds Chas’s mind…
Chas,
Do you believe that the Government started AIDS too?
ONE more >>>>
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/124
Sorry Chas, but all of those links are ‘tinfoil’ hat types.
Nothing there even remotely reliable to see.
“No matter what you post, no matter what you link, nothing will ever be something he won’t find fault with.”
Well Linda can you show me the “Shadow Government” in the links Chas posted?
lindainks55
Posted May 21, 2008 at 9:49 pm | Permalink
Chas, there will never be anything Nathan won’t find fault with! No matter what you post, no matter what you link, nothing will ever be something he won’t find fault with. Been there, done that. Warning you.
========================================
Yep — Its all flaming and Trolling… As I have stated now for the third time, I am done arguing factually available information… I post links… Read the damned links!!
GMC, as an attorney, should know better than to try to twist evidence into something that was not said to begin with…
GMC, I told you before I stand by my post… You got a problem?? PROVE ME WRONG… I am not going to argue the point with any of you Trolls!!
Linda, its all of that pent up PTSD working there… :-|
Regular
Posted May 21, 2008 at 9:54 pm | Permalink
Sorry Chas, but all of those links are ‘tinfoil’ hat types.
Nothing there even remotely reliable to see.
========================================
Maybe, maybe not… I am posting links to be looked at… my original statement was that there are SOME who make these claims… NOWHERE did I say I believe them… just that SOME are making these claims… THAT is factual… My links prove my point!! So, all of you… STOP FLAMING and TROLLING!! It aint gonna work!!
Chas,
Did you know that we never landed on the moon? It was all a hoax.
Links, you want to see links? Well here you go, this proves we never landed on the moon:
http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html
Chas,
There is no “Shadow government.” If you don’t want to be considered a ‘conspiracy nut’ then don’t defend the position.
And Chas, let’s keep flaming like “PTSD” out of this.
What a shameful display for a Minister to make such a statement. You should apologize.
Out of here, Chas’s credibility goes down as his blood pressure goes up.
That is true Nathan… there are SOME who say that!! And you just now proved that there are SOME who believe that….
I proved my point as well… SOME have said there is a shadow government… and that shadow government wants to set up check points at state lines, such as we have at foreign borders… My links PROVE that there are SOME who believe that!!
Now Chas tries to twist his own words!
Chas,
You clearly said:
“Please note that there are SOME who have proposed check points being established between STATE LINES… similar to national boundaries… These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…”
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/05/open-thread-521/#comment-353883
Chas,
You claimed that those people are “shadow government” and that they are real.
You are an idiot.
However, what IS factual, is that DHS has managed to pass into law the National ID, with RFID chips… Truckers already have such a system… its the ICC, and every state has them… It isnt that far fetched to think that they COULD do it with passenger cars as well… With the ID cards, and RFID chips, it would be quite easily done… And that chip, and the National ID are already LAW!!
I’m gonna stay outta this one.
Chas? Consider the sources attacking you.
Ignore them.
Chas,
Here are your words:
“These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…”
They are real…
They are real…
They are real…
They are real…
They are real…
They are real…
They are real…
You claimed that they are real Chas, you can’t twist your way out of this one.
Idiot.
Sorry can’t resist.
“You are an idiot.”
says Nathan and several times.
This from a person who believes in Noah’s ark.
“They are real…” means you do not believe them.
Usually if something is “real” I tend to think they are true.
Prisonplanet? Prisonplanet? Are you kidding me?
THIS is your source? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
No wonder that tinfoil fits so well . . . I dare ya, folks, to click around Prisonplanet.com for a while. Yup . . . water as auto fuel, 911 Truthers, assorted nutcases.
And this is Chas’ source. Why am I not surprised.
Click around the rest, folks. Nathan’s exactly right – no wonder Chas spews crap. He relies on crap. You read tinfoil, you spout tinfoil.
I dare ya, folks. Just see how “credible” Chas’s references are. Makes Wikipedia look like the damn Library of Congress.
Julie Andrews Turns 69. This is hysterical!
To commemorate her birthday, actress/vocalist, Julie Andrews made a special appearance at Manhattan’s Radio City Music Hall for the benefit of AARP.
One of the musical numbers she performed was ‘My Favorite Things’ from the legendary movie ‘Sound Of Music.’ Here are the lyrics she used:
(Sing It!) – If you sing it, its especially hysterical!!!
Maalox and nose drops and needles for knitting,
Walkers and handrails and new dental fittings,
Bundles of magazines tied up in string,
These are a few of my favorite things.
Cadillacs and cataracts, hearing aids and glasses,
Polident and Fixodent and false teeth in glasses,
Pacemakers, golf carts and porches with swings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
When the pipes leak, when the bones creak,
When the knees go bad,
I simply remember my favorite things,
And then I don’t feel so bad.
Hot tea and crumpets and corn pads for bunions,
No spicy hot food or food cooked with onions,
Bathrobes and heating pads and hot meals they bring,
These are a few of my favorite things.
Back pain, confused brains and no need for sinnin’,
Thin bones and fractures and hair that is thinnin’,
And we won’t mention our short shrunken frames,
When we remember our favorite things.
When the joints ache, when the hips break,
When the eyes grow dim,
Then I remember the great life I’ve had,
And then I don’t feel so bad.
“However, what IS factual, is that DHS has managed to pass into law the National ID, with RFID chips…”
Factual. Exact quote.” Let’s see it, Chas. Your claim, your burden to prove up.
Of course, this is the guy who said “they are real,” referring to the “shadow gov’t” setting up checkpoints at state lines. Remember – this all began in the context of Chad claiming that American Airlines’ increase in ticket prices was the start of fascist takeover. . . . uh-huh.
Chas, given what Nathan referred to you as, Nathan is being kind.
GMC70,
Here is the Chas dance:
Step 1: Make some obviously wrong statement, present a false piece of information, say something wrong.
Step 2: When someone comments on what is said, attempt to deflect that question.
Step 3: When someone persists in getting an answer, simply throw some random links into the equation and begin to segway into a different claim.
Step 4: When someone points out that those links were not proof of the claim made, attempt to say they didn’t read enough or that you are not going to point out the obvious to them.
Step 5: When someone still again persists in showing that the original claim is false and demands proof, deny that you made the original claim and twist your words.
Step 6: By this time the argument should have become so twisted, long, and annoying that you simply ignore any more points made about how you are wrong or demands for proof.
Step 7: If people still will not let it drop, type in all CAPS pointing out how you answered their questions and you are not going to play their stupid games.
Step 8: Repeat Step 7 over and over again while attempting to segway into different point brought up earlier as if that is what you were actually saying all along.
Step 9: Repeat Step 8 over and over again until the issue is dropped.
Step 10: If issue is brought up much later as proof of how dumb Chas really is, simlply fall back on Step 7 again.
I dont intend to Nathan… I will just let you and GMC make fools out of yourselves… Once again, you only post a PART of what I posted… You forgot the part where I said “SOME say” NOWHERE did I say I believe them… But I will stand on what I posted… “SOME say” Because, they do, and those who say it… are quite REAL!!
Prison Planet haas a lot of nut stuff… BUT, some of it COULD be real…. They guy who runs the web site is most certainly convinced…. Write to him, he will tell you that…
BUT… NOWHERE did I say I believe it… To say something is possible… based on statements made by director of DHS… is not terribly far fetched… After all, many of you all believed most every thing Karl Rove said, and most all of you either did believe or still believe in WMD!!
Do YOU believe in Noah’s ark TOO GMC?
“Nathaniel” posts –
“I seen a link talking about Government ID cards.”
Then proceeded to call others idiots.
Learn the language, Grammar Boy.
I guess ultimately we will just have to wait until the National ID cards come out, and the RFID chips are “turned on” — THEN we will see what happens…
Its ok chas, we all know the score.
They’re picking on you again. They need to take a hike.
Keep it up GMC… You are doing quite well… But you have not addressed the pertinent issue… and you wont, because you dont want to deal with it… You just want to flame and troll… also proving my point posted earlier…
So quick to condemn they can’t even take the time to read the text. Sad. And these are those who are quickest to profess how close to God they are. All they really want is a fight!
Blog challange of the day. I will pay anyone 50 dollars ( or donate that to a charity or even campaign of your choice )who can find where Chas said “Some say” anywhere in his post as he claims:
***Note*** This is his post in it’s entirity. He also claimed I left out the “some say” part. so lets see if you can find it.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/05/open-thread-521/#comment-353883
“OK bright ones… The Americn Airlines issue is just one piece of the transportation issues… Just ONE piece… it is not the crux of the problem… IF government policies can cause breakdown in transportation availability, people are more easily controlled by region/geography… THAT is the fit… Combine that with the really big lack of RAIL travel, and we are down to ground transportation via car, bus, etc.
When those means are compromised by continued oil price increases, people are then limited financially with travel distance… Travel is then more regionally controllable….
Please note that there are SOME who have proposed check points being established between STATE LINES… similar to national boundaries… These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…”
I have a RFID chip in my military ID card, it’s not big deal. A lot more efficient than the old bar codes.
Same way with transporation uses. RFID is used to track shipments and etc. Ever wonder how you can find out where a package is with UPS, Fed EX? You got it, RFID on bigger containers which store quite a bit of information.
Chas is worried about the “mark of the beast” and RFID being the same thing.
The choice made with the mark of the beast is selling out your soul and conviction to Christ.
RFID has no such requirements.
Sigh…
Challenge, not challange.
“BUT… NOWHERE did I say I believe it… To say something is possible… based on statements made by director of DHS…”
Statement? By director of DHS? Let’s see it Chas. No? No evidence? None?
“Nowhere did I say I believe it…” counterpoised with “they are real.” Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Chas, Nathan has you pegged about right. I’d only add one step. You’ll claim you didn’t say what you clearly said, usually falling back on some completely unbelievable reworking and twisting of your own words. See, i.e., Chas 10:19 post, or the infamous bolded obit “accident.”
Which step would you say Chas is on, Nathan? I’d say about step 4 or 5.
Linda and Poltical Mom,
I see that you are defending your little pet Chas.
So lets see either of you step up to the plate here.
Do either of you believe that there are “shadow government” people who want state border check points and that they are real?
Nathan…. You really have a narrow concept of the use of language…
“SOME who have proposed…” [Chas]
I think the Isaac Walton League could probably benefit from your nice donation… :-)
Chas doing the ‘rope-a-dope’ now.
Some say that and those are real people. Nothing more than that has been said. Some are very quick to condemn.
50 bucks Nathan?
From you that is like 50 cents.
Chas? I’m late to this fight and haven’t read your links. But I will.
See? That’s why you don’t have to defend yourself from GMC or Nathan. Do you think I would read a link from them?
You got your concerns out and they will get read. No one wants to read posts from Nathan or GMC.
GMC70,
I would add a Step in between Steps 5 and 6.
New Step: Claim that those questioning you are up to their old games of attacking you and play the victim card while trying to make them look bad. Hope that your typical liberal friends will back you up on this lending some credibility to the claim.
GMC — you are really an idiot for an attorney…
“Statement? By director of DHS? Let’s see it Chas. No? No evidence? None?”
Chertoff is quoted extensively in the link I provided — Now go READ the damned thing, before you dig yourself deeper into Troll Trash!!
Sometimes some people are able to ignore posts they disagree with.
“Nathaniel” “callanges”[sic) us with:
“Blog challange of the day. I will pay anyone 50 dollars ( or donate that to a charity or even campaign of your choice )who can find where Chas said “Some say” anywhere in his post as he claims:
***Note*** This is his post in it’s entirity. He also claimed I left out the “some say” part. so lets see if you can find it.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/05/open-thread-521/#comment-353883
“OK bright ones… The Americn Airlines issue is just one piece of the transportation issues… Just ONE piece… it is not the crux of the problem… IF government policies can cause breakdown in transportation availability, people are more easily controlled by region/geography… THAT is the fit… Combine that with the really big lack of RAIL travel, and we are down to ground transportation via car, bus, etc.
When those means are compromised by continued oil price increases, people are then limited financially with travel distance… Travel is then more regionally controllable….
Please note that there are SOME who have proposed check points being established between STATE LINES… similar to national boundaries… These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…”
Send the $50 to Planned Parenthood, “Nathaniel..”
creepy fringe wingnut Christan identity groups
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMrtziAaA_o&feature=related
Chas,
Now you are cutting out words from your own statement!
“SOME who have proposed check points being established between STATE LINES”
No where are you stating that some say or some think or that this is simply something that someone else thinks.
The only “some” you talk about are those who are wanting to enact these border check points.
The ones we asked you to show proof of.
The ones you said were:
“exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…”
You know Nathan, his sentence is accurate the way it is. There are people, it has been proven.
You mean links like this Chas?
Here’s your RFID. :D
The Homeland Security Department is abandoning the idea of using radio frequency identification tags to track foreign visitors leaving the country because the technology was not proven successful in testing, according to DHS secretary Michael Chertoff
In Feb. 9 testimony to the House Homeland Security Committee, Chertoff confirmed that RFID testing performed as part of the U.S. Visitor and Immigration Status Indicator Technology (U.S. Visit) program at several land border crossing points was not effective.
In those tests, foreign visitors were given an I-94 document with an embedded RFID tag. When the RFID tag passed through exit lanes at the border, it was to be read wirelessly by readers suspended above the lanes. The RFID tags contained a reference number linked to a departmental database with biometric information on the visitor issued the document.
The Government Accountability Office in a Jan. 31, 2007, report said the readers did not detect the tags reliably.
“The RFID test proved, as GAO indicated, unsuccessful,” Chertoff told the committee.
“I mean, this is the real world,” Chertoff said. “I think, yes, we’re abandoning it. That’s not going to be a solution. So in the real world, when something fails, we drop it and we move to the next thing,” he added
http://www.gcn.com/online/vol1_no1/43125-1.html
MonkeyHawk,
Sorry, you can’t read. The challenge was to find where Chas said “some say” not “some who have proposed”
Linda,
Sometimes there are people like you who simply can’t admit they are wrong and then back up someone like Chas when it is so obvious what an idiot he is.
There are many times I recognize a pissing match and get out as quickly as possible.
Linda,
You didn’t get out, you jumped right in. Now that you are here, you are doing the Chas dance too!
Do you believe that the Shadow Government people are real?
“”The ability to sort through information quickly and identify patterns and linkages is to the 21st century what radar was to the 20th century,” Chertoff said. “It’s the way you isolate danger from a large pool of benign people.”
Chertoff said he no longer refers to such activity as “data mining,” because “it conjures up images that you are digging into people’s personal information and extracting it.”
But that, in fact, is precisely what it is. And not just people moving into and out of the country. Chertoff does not rule out using such cards for internal security purposes.
And we already know that the government has been abusing its power in the National Security Agency’s warrantless wiretapping, the suspect mining of banking and phone records, and unlawful abuse (by the FBI) of the Patriot Act, just for starters. What is the basis for trust here? Why wouldn’t we think that computer-chipped ID cards and surprise searches might be used to track innocent citizens or destroy our freedoms?”
http://www.crosscut.com/mossback/1594/
I think I am going to play this little Chas game from now on.
I’ll make some stupid statement and then when someone trys to say I am wrong, I will simply dance around…
Huh…? At least Chas did not offer up the retort, my dear spouse does when she politely wants me to be quiet: “Stand the Floor Up”.
It would be difficult for even the most gun- enamored among you to admit, that Chas a remote point – which would be there are nuts out there who are full of hate and dangerous. See the link above that I am ashamed to have provided.
I wonder which butt cheek Chas was thinking the RFID was injected into? :D
The I-94 is an INS form document. The chip was embedded in the document for testing purposes. The tests showed that the reading of the I-94 document was not read properly as cars passed through the border checkpoints.
Perhaps the Shadow Government are the people who injected the butt cheeks with the RFID?
(chortles)
“Nathaniel” squirms –
“MonkeyHawk,
Sorry, you can’t read. The challenge was to find where Chas said “some say” not “[there are] some who have proposed””
Figures that you’d try to weasel out of your “challange [sic].”
Nathan says – rather stupidly –
“Sorry, you can’t read. The challenge was to find where Chas said “some say” not “some who have proposed””
Nathan, what the hell is the difference linguistically??? The MEANING is identical…
Please send your check to the Isaac Walton League
Why I am ashamed to have provided that link is that those folks are part of the K.K.K. I send money to the Southern Poverty Law Institute to banrupt them – which they do regularly. But hate is a difficult thing to kill. It will take many years…
Nathan… one thing you are missing… an important thing actually…
I HAVE SAID NOTHING WRONG….
I HAVE LISTED A VARIETY OF IDEAS ESPOUSED BY NUMEROUS PEOPLE…
I have NOWHERE said I agree with any of them… And yet, somehow, somewhere, you feel the great NEED… no obsession…. to try to say I am saying something WRONG???
Talk about Idiots!!
Nathan, WHY did you ask Linda if she believed Shadow Government people are real?
NOBODY here has said that!! NOBODY!! Well, except for your obsession, that is…
Steven . . .
Your spouse says Stand The Floor Up? STFU? I might actually believe you, Steven.
You’re serious? Wow – I may actually owe Chas an apology. While that does not make him any less a BS artist, nor does it mean in the least he meant Stand The Floor Up when he all-capped STFU, I’ll accept your word.
As to that point, Chas, you may have one. It would be a first. But try to come up with something beside tinfoil sources to back up your “real” claims.
Chas,
If you follow the sentence, you are not making the claim ( as you now claim ) that there are some who say that there are those types of people.
You simply asserted that there are those types of people who want those things.
You are trying to shift from making the assertion that there are Shadow Government people to saying that there are some who say that.
No where in your post is that the case.
You are either a complete idiot or a liar.
BTW, When did I ever say I was going to be paying anyone for any challenge?
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
They are real
“I think I am going to play this little Chas game from now on.
I’ll make some stupid statement and then when someone trys to say I am wrong, I will simply dance around…”
PRICELESS!
Or more accurately, PRICEFULL!
Oh I’m saving this one!
Nathan posting your take and then dancing around is your schtick on this blog from day one!
And I can get many “amens” on that.
So just who are these Shadow Government types? THS?
(Tinfoil Hat Society)
Do they work for DHS? (Department of Homeland Security)
Why hasn’t Chertoff notified the THS that the RFID project for border security was cancelled?
Did Cheney run down to DHS and have the message intercepted and destroyed?
Were secret White House agents sent to infiltrate the DHS and give the records the “AG Gonzales” phone record treatment?
Will an UFO land in Chas’s backyard tonight?
Stay tuned…news at 11…Close Encounters of the Third Kind following the news.
(chortles)
Now, the only TWO things I know for sure here are these >>>
1) We WILL be required to use passports to get in and out of Canada… That has never happened before in my entire life memory of going back and forth to Canada….
2) We WILL be required to have a National ID, replacing our Drivers Licenses, which will contain much personal information, in the RFID chip embedded in the ID Card…
Many folks are upset by both of these issues…
Those are the only two things I know for sure…
As I said earlier, SOME folks have said things about a Shadow Government…. and things that Shadow Government might try to do…
Basically thats all!! And look at the flaming Troll mess you all have made out of it!! And all you had to do was either read my links…. OR google it for yourselves…
Thats all there is to it… Nuff said!!
Huh…? At least Chas did not offer up the retort, my dear spouse does when she politely wants me to be quiet: “Stand the Floor Up”.
—————–
Excuse my skepticism Steven, but “Stand the Floor Up”? Chuckle…
I think Steven is pulling your leg GMC.
The reason I got involved with the Southern Poverty Law Institute is that they have a tolerance program they teach – one of their videos for this program won an academy award.
The SPLI advocates tolerance for all people, those of different races (ok, so far), different sexual orientations (the problem…), etc.
The religious right has begun to attack them and to try to dispute their points.
When I was given this info, I had no choice but to send them cash. We Kansans, who were responsible for Brown v. Board of Education, can do nothing differently than what I did. Send any funds you can to the SPLI.
Excuse my skepticism Steven, but “Stand the Floor Up”? Chuckle…
I think Steven is pulling your leg GMC.
********
Sorry, Mike that was indeed a “Chasism” – my spouse and I, who generally favor the points Chas makes, love that digression…
Nathan — Put on your best English Grammar Hat… And READ WHAT I SAID AGAIN >>>>
“Please note that there are SOME who have proposed check points being established between STATE LINES… similar to national boundaries… These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…””
===========================================
“SOME who have proposed” are equal to “These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…”
SOME = They
Just basic English Grammar, Nathan… And yet you are flaming and trolling it!!
Steven?
Nathan posts his take and then dances. He always has. Agree?
Regular… Hello??? I KNOW they are re-thinking the RFID chip in checking the border thing you mentioned at length… That is why I didnt mention it….
What IS being done, is the RFID Chip in the new upcoming National ID Card which will replace your Drivers License… THAT is not being re-thought by DHS… That one has already passed Congress, as my link above pointed out clearly…
Get it??? You are talking/flaming about an entirely different matter in your post above… Do try to keep up!!
Sorry, I can only poke the retard and watch him dance so much for one night.
Mistakes…………………….
Viet Nam.
Mississippi.
Marital status.
Fatherhood.
JM.
Tires.
Nic switching.
Yada, yada.
And you question credibility?
Nathan, I just handed you your butt on a silver platter… So, when you get beat, you cut and run, eh??? LOL
No Chas, I don’t want to keep up.
You change what you say/mean more than a spilled bowl of greasy spaghettin on a waxed floor.
BlueJay
Posted May 21, 2008 at 11:14 pm | Permalink
Steven?
Nathan posts his take and then dances. He always has. Agree?
**********
To be completely honest, Jay, I don’t completely understand your question.
Natan has his problems, his posts suport that contention, but I am not sure what you mean specifically.
I’d like to meet with you soon. I will send an email tomorrow.
Steven
Nathan, I just handed you your butt on a silver platter… So, when you get beat, you cut and run, eh??? LOL
—————————-
good lord!
One of you Libs throw the strait jacket on Chas.
He is certifiably insane.
I guess Nathan cant handle simple English Grammar, so he cant apologize, and he wont send the $50 to Isaac Walton League either, and I KNOW they could use the donation!! LOL
Steven –
You dog you. YOU I take seriously.
I should have known better . . . “Stand The Floor Up” indeed! I owe you, Steven. I’ll get even – someday!
:)
Now if I can just get any references to the coming fascist state, the state checkpoints, the RFID chips in national ID cards, etc. from something, anything, but tinfoil hat sites. Lets just say I won’t stay up late waiting, or hold my breath. . .
“Regular” demands –
“One of you Libs throw the strait jacket on Chas.
He is certifiably insane.”
Being called “insane” by “Regular” is like being called ugly by a frog.
I knew Monkeyhock or one of the Libs would swoop in to defend the indefensible.
James — I have not changed anything… Stop LYING troll boy… You are so good at it, you just dont know the difference anymore!!
SHOW just one place I changed anything!! Just ONE place — See, I never said anything about RFID chips and the canadian border issue and foreigners… You must have made that up to try to divert the topic, so you could say I didnt know what I was talking about… BUT… That wasnt my issue on the Canadian thing… not at all!!
Go back and READ for a change, instead of just flaming/trolling!!
What I said about CANADA had to do with this idiotic new thing about needing a passport to go in and out of Canada now…
What I said about RFID chips has to do ONLY with the new National ID Card… soon to be a reality… 2009 I think?? Already passed by Congress!! I posted a link that quoted Michael Chertoff extensively on that subject…
Now, you want to discuss the issue, or do you just want to Troll and Flame!!
“I knew Monkeyhock or one of the Libs would swoop in to defend the indefensible.”
Viet Nam.
Mississippi.
Marital status.
Fatherhood.
JM.
Tires.
Nic switching.
I’ll look forward to that Steven.
Ya know?
I REALLY should go get some of GMC’s greatest splits, Nathan’s greatest fits and James’s greatest… defecations that rhyme with plits and fits.
GMC — Just for you — This is either the second or third post >>>>
“”The ability to sort through information quickly and identify patterns and linkages is to the 21st century what radar was to the 20th century,” Chertoff said. “It’s the way you isolate danger from a large pool of benign people.”
Chertoff said he no longer refers to such activity as “data mining,” because “it conjures up images that you are digging into people’s personal information and extracting it.”
But that, in fact, is precisely what it is. And not just people moving into and out of the country. Chertoff does not rule out using such cards for internal security purposes.
And we already know that the government has been abusing its power in the National Security Agency’s warrantless wiretapping, the suspect mining of banking and phone records, and unlawful abuse (by the FBI) of the Patriot Act, just for starters. What is the basis for trust here? Why wouldn’t we think that computer-chipped ID cards and surprise searches might be used to track innocent citizens or destroy our freedoms?”
http://www.crosscut.com/mossback/1594/
As I said before Chas, why bother discussing anything with you.
You are willful, prideful lunatic. You will never admit you are wrong or misguided. You are an ego of your own making.
From now on let’s all ignore Chas.
That way, the only thing Chas have left is being the designated ‘yes man’ and ‘butt kisser’ for duh Libs.
Hey Junior midget, any time any place.
“Too bad Clark’s mind is completely gone from his decades of drinking.”
The Blog’s resident LIAR tries to smoke screen his way out of admitting his many, many, many lies..
Viet Nam.
Mississippi.
Marital status.
Fatherhood.
JM.
Tires.
Nic switching.
Can’t fess up to your lies, McLiar?
Ha!
I have one nic James.
Well, two thanks to you.
Address me properly and I might dignify you.
more words of wisdom from those crazy wingnut kids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYsnyH-WmIg
“Hey Junior midget, any time any place.”
And he won’t show up……………
Clark,
I’ve not met you, but I do respect you. I hope to meet you some day.
I’ve met James. I liked him. Not sure you would have.
I agree that James may have not always been honest here. Have any of us? That point does not excuse him or any of us…
Going to bed soon. See you all later…
“I liked him. Not sure you would have.”
Sorry, SD, but I have little or no tolerance for liars that would denigrate the service of ‘Nam vets by claiming that they were one of them when they did not serve.
Sorry.
OK GMC — Here are three of my posts from earlier… They got pretty chopped up by those trying to make me say what I simply did NOT say (including you)
______________________________________
Chas
Posted May 21, 2008 at 3:01 pm | Permalink
L J — Typical facist tactics include limitations of travel, setting groups against each other, into splinter off shoots, with much disharmony, making divisions of wealth more “important” than necessary, various attempts at religious divisions among people, and a host of others… including chaotic conditions in communications, whether it be radio, tv, newspapers, internet, etc. —
Facists depend on dividing people, controlling freedoms by threatening lack of security, and other means… Once people are divided, they can be conquered easily…
=======================================
Chas
Posted May 21, 2008 at 2:15 pm | Permalink
“Let me guess, now you want the government to step deeper into our lives and tell us when and what to eat, how to get from here to there. What heart rate to maintain for how long…”
Sol, they already ARE!! Now they are making it more difficult to TRAVEL — at least by plane — Amer. Airlines is now charging $15 PER BAG on a flight… They are trying to limit where we travel… how often… etc.
This is possibly the very beginning of the governmnet facist takeover…
=======================================
Chas
Posted May 21, 2008 at 3:29 pm | Permalink
OK bright ones… The Americn Airlines issue is just one piece of the transportation issues… Just ONE piece… it is not the crux of the problem… IF government policies can cause breakdown in transportation availability, people are more easily controlled by region/geography… THAT is the fit… Combine that with the really big lack of RAIL travel, and we are down to ground transportation via car, bus, etc.
When those means are compromised by continued oil price increases, people are then limited financially with travel distance… Travel is then more regionally controllable….
Please note that there are SOME who have proposed check points being established between STATE LINES… similar to national boundaries… These folks are not leftist… nor are the right wing… They are exopolitical types… “shadow government” if you will… They are real…
I think you owe WS a meet up don’t you James?
You honor that one.
Far from it from me to be elitist. But I have met more posters than anyone else here. I even stood alone with the Price’s.
I called and organized a meetup. Before your time here.
I even visited the enemy camp just a few feet away from the high living Price’s.
Now you are a lesser poster. I dare say a liability to your side.
Impress me. Or intrigue me. THEN call me out.
JR.
Be my guest. In fact, I dare ya.
Chas – what you’vecited is called an “editorial.”
“Chas” –
I realize I’ve criticized you before for getting involved in these nightly flame wars, but here I am flopping around in the back of the boat.
The trolls have no other tactic. They’re wrong on the facts, they arrogantly spew their own version of theology as if they think they speak for God, they try as best as they can to twist reality into something that somehow props up their prejudices.
The trolls target you because you try to reason with them. They’re beyond reason.
I have been targeted from time to time. Sometimes, though, I’ve found it’s enough to let them hang themselves. Like “Nathaniel’s” “challange[sic].” Like “Nathaniel’s” tap dance around the difference between “some say” and “SOME have proposed.” I mean, if there’s anyone who doesn’t see just how disingenuous “Nathaniel’s” tap dances have become, their opinions are likely worthless on just about anything.
I usually dismiss people who post lyrics on forums (fora?) such as this. But I think tonight’s lullaby should be this:
You who are on the road
Must have a code that you can live by
And so become yourself
Because the past is just a good bye.
Teach your children well,
Their father’s hell did slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they picked, the one you’ll know by.
Don’t you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.
And you, of tender years,
Can’t know the fears that your elders grew by,
And so please help them with your youth,
They seek the truth before they can die.
Teach your parents well,
Their children’s hell will slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they picked, the one you’ll know by.
Don’t you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.
Sometimes it’s best to just look at them and sigh.
And your point is??
Chas –
Take those three posts, and in fact you did say exactly what I, and others have intimated. Tinfoil stuff about American Airlines price increases being related to a coming fascist state . . . ?!?!
Yup. Tinfoil.
The proposed checkpoints between states . . . The “shadow gov’t” which you assert is “real.” . . . ?!?! Yup. Tinfoil.
Chad . . . when you’re in a hole, the first step out is stop digging.
Here’s another link about what SOME of these folks are saying…. Not, I said SOME…
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/124
GMC.,.. You are not that stupid… NOWHERE have I said the shadow government is real…
ONCE AGAIN… SOME folks say there is a shadow government… SOME folks say they want those things… PLEASE READ GMC… You are better than that!! What purpose do you have in LYING about what I am saying??
Done and done GMC.
Though I’ve not the “free” government paid time you have.
An exploration of your evolution here would be educational.
I appreciate your words, Monkey… But it is somewhat surprising to me when one of our alleged prosecuting attorneys cant seem to read or reason any better than Nathan’s silly dancing around… That concerns me greatly!!
WSClark posted May 21, 2008 at 11:45 pm
“I liked him. Not sure you would have.”
Sorry, SD, but I have little or no tolerance for liars…
——–
I will second that, for jimmymac’s lies about my posts, climate science, climate scientists, the NO levees, and many, many other lies that jimmymac has posted.
GMC70 posted May 21, 2008 at 11:52 pm
“Chas – what you’vecited is called an “editorial.” ”
Does GMC70 mean like Hank Price’s 6:29 am post, at the top of this thread?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/05/open-thread-521/#comment-353823
LOL!!
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/162448
“Thoele, of Fincastle, has been an analytical chemist for 32 years in the pharmaceutical and personal health care industries.”
Whatever, Chad. I, and others, can read fine. I don’t need you to tell me that you did’t say what you said, that words meaning X really means Y . . .
It’s just Chad, part XXIII.
Glad you found the fight cosmos. Too bad it is over.
Jay sings…
The cons… have gone… to bed and so must I.
One last thought, GMC… Go back and see the various social/economic tactics that the Nazi’s used to GET to power in Germany… Note how they divided the nation into factions that could be easily drawn into confrontations, and set to disputing… And when you succeed in dividing people into factions, they are easily conquered….
Furthermore, Transportation limitations… Fear tactics… Scares of a lack of security… religiious animosity…
LOOK AROUND YOU — Tell me you dont see many of those things happening here… in our country… Maybe small now… but certainly having the capacity to grow bigger… American airlines today… Perhaps ALL of us later in terms of travel affordability… The fact that Southwest Airlines is not in that same category tells us that any sense of “takeover” is far pre-mature…
Now, couple that with the fact that there are those who for whatever reason, see conspiracies happening everywhere…
And you can easily see how such ideas as shadow governments, or Elitists, or CFR ideas… or Illuminati ideas, can get started… The ideas of Illuminati controlling the nations of the world behind the scenes, have been around since the mid 18th century… Such ideas have not blossomed beyond several fraternal type organisations…
Currently, I think much of the Mythos of Dick Cheney (Undisclosed locations, etc.) has fueled part of the current conspiracy folks…
But they are out there… and they are REAL… Which is what I have been saying… Qnd yet for some reasohn, YOU and a few others keep trying to get me to admit thqt I BELIEVE thqt stuff!!
The typos are what happens when my left hand refuses to cooperate… sorry….
Yet, NOWHERE have I said I believe any of it…
And you know what?? That was my intention… to show you folks, that you jump to conclusions, you misquote any way you can to prove your point… even to the point when Nathqn sqys thqt SOME SQY is different from SOME HqVE PROPOSED… Qnd then he tried to weasel out of it by ccalling ME the liar!!
See, that is what is terribly disturbing!! All of that flaming and trolling… hqd not ONE thing to do with what I was posting…
nd tht is bqsically tht we got q whole lot of probvlems in this country right now… Qnd MOST of them qrent pqrtisqn — they qre, rqther, QMerican PROBLEMS… And they need American minds, working to find American solutions… NOT Right Wing this, qnd Left Wing that!!
Can you, as a public servant, understqnd the importqnce of thqt???
Or I might stay!
Drunk GMC? Swapping s for d?
GMC lit up could be entertaining.
GMC70
Posted May 22, 2008 at 12:20 am | Permalink
Whatever, Chad. I, and others, can read fine. I don’t need you to tell me that you did’t say what you said, that words meaning X really means Y . . .
It’s just Chad, part XXIII.
========================================
I seriously pity the legal partners with whom you work, if you cant read with any more clarity than you exhibit here — and particularly with something as simple as what I have posted here today and tonite..
And I also pity the defendants you put on trial, if you twist the words they say under oath, the way you always try to twist the words I type on this Blog, to make them say what YOU want them to say, instead of what they in fact, DO say….
Well, good night; good luck; God bless –
Whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings ALL — especially this nation!!
“And you know what?? That was my intention… to show you folks, that you jump to conclusions, you misquote any way you can to prove your point…
Riiiiiight. Whatever, Chas. Keep twisting.
Drunkblogging? Perhaps someday . . . it might be fun.
“Whatever, Chad. I, and others, can read fine. I don’t need you to tell me that you did’t say what you said, that words meaning X really means Y . . .
It’s just Chad, part XXIII.”
Heh heh I’m keeping this one too.
Why not?? Maybe the booze can help you read better what is posted, and drive away your obsession with personal attacks..
Hang on to that one real good Blue Jay… Could come in very handy some day…
“Heh heh I’m keeping this one too.”
Oh My God, not that! He’s KEEPING this one?? Whatever shall I do??? EEEEEK!
Yeesh.
Just wait GMC — Some day you might find that the DHS will use your new National ID card to limit where you travel. Or where you can fly. Or what State you can go to. (In the name of National Security of course)
And IF that happens, you can remember that you read it here that SOME folks are saying that might happen… And that those who would make it happen are what those SOME folks call the Shadow Government (whatever that is)…
IF that should happen, it will be MY turn to call you some choice names… :-)
GMC70 posted May 21, 2008 at 11:52 pm
“Chas – what you’vecited is called an “editorial.” ”
“you’vecited”?
It is hard to miss the big “space” bar, at the bottom of the keyboard.
I still would like to talk to you J R. Let me know if that is possible. I think you have me email address. I will email, you, in case not.
The folks here are, hmmm… different. But, they are my fellow citizens, even if I don’t like them too very much.
It is late, night all…
Well, Mickey’s hands tell me its time to take these blasted breathing pills, and head for bed… Perhaps I can sleep a few hours tonite..
Later all!!
“I called and organized a meetup. Before your time here.”
I don’t think so, J R.
Old JamesM. was here from the beginning.
He just trolled and nic-switched so much, no one could keep the greasy weasle pinned down.
But now he’s outed himself . . . muhahaHAHAHA!
What a maroon . . .
I wonder where Rosell got to?
He’s probably still star-struck from breathing the same air that KKKarl Rove breathed last week . . .
Anybody still here?
I’ll go back and catch up with what you boys have been arguing about…this time. ::sigh::
Back for a minute, PreD… But fading fast from these little pills…
How many of you have the new passports with the chips?
I’m out, too, Chas. Had to stop an argument between kids. GROWN kids, if you can believe it.
Tomorrow (make that Today) my oldest granddaughter graduates from kindergarten. The youngest of the two graduated from Pre-K on Monday. I hope I live long eough to see them both (and the two younger boys) graduate from high school.
Here’s a thought to leave you all with.
Do you not think that welfare perpetuates deadbeats to stay in poverty? What’s their incentive to get out of it?
Pride.
You see, I used the welfare system for 6 months. Got a whole $84 a month. Gee! I was rich! It helped me get back on my feet, and I left it behind as quickly as possible. Yes, there are people who will work the system, but that’s true of all systems, not just for the poor. How many of you have looked for and found every single tax loophole you can…and more? How many people incorporate for that same reason?
Most on “welfare” (cash assistance) are new, single mothers (both never married and those newly divorced) who are in need of a little boost to get them out of the hole they’re in. There’s stuff on the Kansas SRS website with the stats there to see. The following quote also came from there:
Most of the nation’s total government benefits go to persons in the middle or upper classes, with only 14% of total government benefits going to the poor. Cash assistance payments account for just over 1% of all federal benefits programs.
Have a great Thursday! I sure expect to. :)
“Chas” offers –
“…it is somewhat surprising to me when one of our alleged prosecuting attorneys cant seem to read or reason any better than Nathan’s silly dancing around…”
Yeahbut…
It’s not as if we haven’t witnessed “GMC70’s” feeble mind at work before. It’s not like he’s handling the big murder case in Butler County or any case that really matters. He’s probably prosecuting speeding tickets and dog-barking complaints.
I mean, if he were actually dependent on billable hours, he wouldn’t have time for WE Blog.
I dunno. Maybe he was a political hire or a legacy or somesuch. Suffice to say he’s not the brightest pencil in the deck.
Go back up in the thread to when “Nathaniel” posted, “All I seen was…” and realizing you’re not dealing with a mental giant. And when people such as “GMC70″ and “Regular et al” started piling on you in defense of “Nathaniel’s” ignorance, it should have been a clue the discourse was going downhill.
It’s difficult, I realize. But we don’t always have to lower ourselves to their level.
“Just look at them and sigh…”
Yep… Wise words, Monkey…