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“Politicians seem to think that the science is a done deal”
Who said that? Some skeptic? Far from it. It headlines an article in the fervently Warmist “New Scientist”. Reality seems to be dawning even there. More of the article below:
“Politicians seem to think that the science is a done deal,” says Tim Palmer. “I don’t want to undermine the IPCC, but the forecasts, especially for regional climate change, are immensely uncertain.”
Palmer is a leading climate modeller at the European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts in Reading, UK, and he does not doubt that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has done a good job alerting the world to the problem of global climate change. But he and his fellow climate scientists are acutely aware that the IPCC’s predictions of how the global change will affect local climates are little more than guesswork. They fear that if the IPCC’s predictions turn out to be wrong, it will provoke a crisis in confidence that undermines the whole climate change debate.
On top of this, some climate scientists believe that even the IPCC’s global forecasts leave much to be desired.
I guess all the Navy and Admirals are wrong — sure Hank knows it all:
The US Navy - Global Warming’s Latest Convert
“A Cooperative Strategy for 21st Century Seapower.”
So what does the US Navy have to say about its global strategy?
The vast majority of the world’s population lives within a few hundred miles of the oceans. Social instability in increasingly crowded cities,
many of which exist in already unstable parts of the world, has the potential to create significant disruptions. The effects of climate change may also amplify human suffering through catastrophic storms, loss of arable lands, and coastal flooding, could lead to loss of life, involuntary migration, social instability, and regional crises.
Yes - the United States Commander-and-Chief may be uncertain about global warming, but his Admirals and seamen are confident that it is real and that it will/should shape their maritime strategy.
But then, given how reluctant Bush has never been one to listen to his Generals - it’s unclear why he would listen to his Admirals.
Another thought, courtesy of Michael Shellenberger and Ted Nordhaus: when the US Navy is planning around Global Warming you know the debate has moved on. Why even bother engaging the deniers - let’s focus on the problem, the US military is.
64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:PaTUfB0IrUAJ:www.natice.noaa.gov/icefree/NavyArcticPanel.pdf+navy+on+global+warming&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us
Summary
The climate of the Arctic responds to short term variations on a roughly decadal scale known
as the Arctic Oscillation (AO) and the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) which are closely
coupled and may be features of the same phenomena observed in different regions. These
decade long oscillations will continue to add variability to Arctic climate.
Model studies indicate that temperatures in the Arctic region will increase by mid-century
with summer temperature (Jun-Aug) increasing by 1-2 deg. C, autumn (Sep-Nov) by 7-8
deg. C, winter (Dec-Feb) by 8-9 deg. C and spring (Mar-May) by about 5 deg. C.
Variations between model predictions are of the order of 1-2 deg. C in summer and 5-6 deg.
C in winter.
In the winter the entire Arctic Basin will be ice covered. Model studies suggest that summer
ice extent will decrease by roughly 30% and ice volume by roughly 40%. A conservative
consideration of model results suggests summer ice extent will decrease by only 15% and
that ice volume will decrease by 40% leading to an increase in the relative abundance of
thin, first-year ice.
The Sea of Okhotsk and the Sea of Japan will remain ice-free throughout the year. The
Russian coast and the Canadian Archipelago will be ice free and open to navigation by non-
ice-strengthened ships in summer.
In the atmosphere, the Arctic boundary layer will be warmer and wetter. Cloudiness will
increase, extending the summer cloudy regime into earlier onset and later decline. The
likelihood of freezing mist and drizzle will increase as a result.
Polar low pressure systems will become more common and boundary layer forced
convection will increase mixed phase (ice-water) precipitation. Vessel and aircrafticing will
be more common.
Arctic warming will affect permafrost. The active (seasonally melted) layer will thicken and
permafrost extent in the discontinuous permafrost region (along the borders of permafrost
stability) will decrease. The inner and outer boundaries ofthe discontinuous zone will move
to the North.
Changes in timing and composition of river runoff will affect surface seawater. Increased
sediment loads in spring runoff will spread out at sea affecting optical transparency.
Soils will be drier and more susceptible to tundra fires. Local optical properties may change
affecting energy balances and local weather.
Declines in traffic on the Northern Sea Route (NSR) may continue in concert with Russian
economic difficulties. But climate induced increases in trafficability in the NSR may cause
increased use for Atlantic-Pacific transportation.
Both Russia and Canada assert policies holding navigable straits in the NSR and the
Northwest Passage under their exclusive control. The US differs in their interpretation ofthe
status of these straits. As these routes become more available for international traffic,
conflicts are likely to arise.
Ships which can expect contact with even minor abundances of sea ice require increases in
stiffeners and plate thickness in the affected region. Underwater installations including
propellers, rudders, fin stabilizers, sea chests and especially thin skinned sonar installations
must be redesigned for Arctic operations.
Icing of ships and aircraft will require accommodation in ship/aircraft design and operation.
Weapons systems will also be affected by icing conditions.
Sonar operations in the Arctic will experience increased ambient noise levels and the surface
duct will be diminished or lost. Ice keels will be shallower and less abundant and the area in
which they can be expected to occur will be reduced. Active sonar detection of submarines
will become more feasible.
Russian economic levels have resulted in the reduction of the Russian Arctic’s European
population. Operation of the expensive and difficult logistics pipeline to Arctic communities
may be further reduced leading to a return to subsistence living by native populations.
The Russian Arctic is a storehouse of natural resources. Changing climate may spur an
increase in exploitation of energy, mineral and forest resources, especially by or for the
benefit of resource poor Asian nations.
The response of marine resources to changing climate is very difficult to predict but
northward migrations are likely. In particular, northward movement of Bering Sea species
into the Beaufort/Chukchi Sea region north of Bering Strait is likely. Climate warming is
likely to bring extensive fishing activity to the Arctic, particularly in the Barents Sea and
Beaufort/Chukchi region where commercial operations have been minimal in the past. In
addition, Bering Sea fishing opportunities will increase as sea ice cover begins later and ends
sooner in the year.
Ecological disruption due to climate induced separation of essential habitats can be expected
with particular effects on marine mammal populations.
The exploration, development, production and transportation ofpetroleumin the Arctic will
expand with or without climate change as prices continue to rise due to the decreasing rate of
discovery of reserves elsewhere. Climate warming and reduction in ice cover will facilitate
and perhaps accelerate the process.
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/05/17/32-000-deniers.aspx
HLP,
Since you’re a conservative, it follows that you’d argue against the existance of climate change. What interests me is, as a conservative, how can you justify sourcing anything European (”Palmer is a leading climate modeller at the European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts in Reading”)? If a lib quoted anything European, you’d have a stroke and smear France or something.
HOW MANY SCIENTISTS DOES IT TAKE TO OVERTURN A SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS?
Question: How many scientists does it take to establish that a consensus does not exist on global warming? The quest to establish that the science is not settled on climate change began before most people had even heard of global warming.
The year was 1992 and the United Nations was about to hold its Earth Summit in Rio. It was billed as - and was - the greatest environmental and political assemblage in human history. Delegations came from 178 nations - virtually every nation in the world - including 118 heads of state or government and 7,000 diplomatic bureaucrats. The world’s environmental groups came too - they sent some 30,000 representatives from every corner of the world to Rio. To report all this, 7,000 journalists converged on Rio to cover the event, and relay to the publics of the world that global warming and other environmental insults were threatening the planet with catastrophe.
In February of that year, in an attempt to head off the whirlwind that the conference would unleash, 47 scientists signed a “Statement by Atmospheric Scientists on Greenhouse Warming,” decrying “the unsupported assumption that catastrophic global warming follows from the burning of fossil fuels and requires immediate action.”
To a scientist in search of truth, 47 is an impressive number, especially if those 47 dissenters include many of the world’s most eminent scientists. To the environmentalists, politicians, press at Rio, their own overwhelming numbers made the 47 seem irrelevant.
Knowing this, a larger petition effort was undertaken, known as the Heidelberg Appeal, and released to the public at the Earth Summit. By the summit’s end, 425 scientists and other intellectual leaders had signed the appeal.
These scientists - mere hundreds - also mattered for nought in the face of the tens of thousands assembled at Rio. The Heidelberg Appeal was blown away and never obtained prominence, even though the organizers persisted over the years to ultimately obtain some 4,000 signatories, including 72 Nobel Prize winners.
The earnest effort to demonstrate the absence of a consensus continued with the Leipzig Declaration on Global Climate Change - an attempt to counter the Kyoto Protocol of 1997. Its 150-odd signatories also counted for nought. As did the Cornwall Declaration on Environmental Stewardship in 2000, signed by more than 1,500 clergy, theologians, religious leaders, scientists, academics and policy experts concerned about the harm that Kyoto could inflict on the world’s poor.
Then came the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine’s Petition Project of 2001, which far surpassed all previous efforts and by all rights should have settled the issue of whether the science was settled on climate change. To establish that the effort was bona fide, and not spawned by kooks on the fringes of science, as global warming advocates often label the skeptics, the effort was spearheaded by Dr. Frederick Seitz, past president of the National Academy of Sciences and of Rockefeller University, and as reputable as they come.
The Oregon petition garnered an astounding 17,800 signatures, a number all the more astounding because of the unequivocal stance that these scientists took: Not only did they dispute that there was convincing evidence of harm from carbon dioxide emissions, they asserted that Kyoto itself would harm the global environment because “increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.”
The petition drew media attention, but little of it was for revealing to the world that an extraordinary number of scientists hold views on global warming diametrically opposite to those they are expected to hold. Instead, the press focussed on presumed flaws that critics found in the petition. Some claimed the petition was riddled with duplicate names. They were no duplicates, just different scientists with the same name. Some claimed the petition had phonies. There was only one phony: Spice Girl Geri Halliwell, planted by a Greenpeace organization to discredit the petition and soon removed. Other names that seemed to be phony - such as Michael Fox, the actor, and Perry Mason, the fictional lawyer in a TV series - were actually bona fide scientists, properly credentialled.
Like the Heidelberg Appeal, the Oregon petition was blown away. But now it is blowing back. Original signatories to the petition and others, outraged at Kyoto’s corruption of science, wrote to the Oregon Institute and its director, Arthur Robinson, asking that the petition be brought back.
“E-mails started coming in every day,” he explained. “And they kept coming. ” The writers were outraged at the way Al Gore and company were abusing the science to their own ends. “We decided to do the survey again.”
Using a subset of the mailing list of American Men and Women of Science, a who’s who of Science, Robinson mailed out his solicitations through the postal service, requesting signed petitions of those who agreed that Kyoto was a danger to humanity. The response rate was extraordinary, “much, much higher than anyone expected, much higher than you’d ordinarily expect,” he explained. He’s processed more than 31,000 at this point, more than 9,000 of them with PhDs, and has another 1,000 or so to go - most of them are already posted on a Web site at petitionproject.org.
Why go to this immense effort all over again, when the press might well ignore the tens of thousands of scientists who are standing up against global warming alarmism?
“I hope the general public will become aware that there is no consensus on global warming,” he says, “and I hope that scientists who have been reluctant to speak up will now do so, knowing that they aren’t alone.”
At one level, Robinson, a PhD scientist himself, recoils at his petition. Science shouldn’t be done by poll, he explains. “The numbers shouldn’t matter. But if they want warm bodies, we have them.”
Some 32,000 scientists is more than the number of environmentalists that descended on Rio in 1992. Is this enough to establish that the science is not settled on global warming? The press conference releasing these names occurs on Monday at the National Press Club in Washington.
Every day with the denial posts. And for months now.
“Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”
Good morning Nano,
So, do you then agree that there is a political component to the debate?
Look to Europe to see the consequences of AGW hysteria. Because of CO2 emission restrictions their economy is about to tank.
http://www.wbcsd.org/plugins/DocSearch/details.asp?type=DocDet&ObjectId=MzAwNTQ
As we start to cave to the environmentalist nitwits Europe will start to turn away from them or fail.
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.”
The complete quote by Emerson.
You continue to prove your nitwitery, junior.
I like this one better.
“The debate is over.”
Al Gore.
You lose.
When we continue to give merit for something we dont believe in, we show that it has merit. We spend alot of time on both sides of an issue that both sides reflect does/doesnt exsist. Global warming does exsist. It has a multitude of causes. 1 piece of trash doesnt constitute a major problem. If 20,000 of us exercise being allowed to put our 1 piece of trash in the same spot, we know hve 20,000 pieces of trash in 1 spot. This in comparison is a problem. The enviroment evolves just like animals and humans. We as humans build a resistance to meds, foods, antibodies etc:.. The enviroment does the same a it chemical/molecular structure. Different gases that are released into the air do affect the ozone. Example, light wont penetrate thru smoke as well as thru clear air. We have fog lamps which had to be designed for fog use. They are a different color and strength of light. We suffer because of the neglect of our ancestors. Our kids and future planetarians will suffer because of us. Look at the N.A.S.A. program. They take off and land based on the ozone. They use “windows”. These are areas less dense than other areas in the composision of the ozone enviroment in comparison to the air closer to the earth. Colorado has thinner air than other States. I belive in “Global Warming”. Herbert West III, Candidate for Sheriff, Miami County Kansas, as of May 7th 2008. west.herb@yahoo.com , wen2k.com .
HLP
Posted May 20, 2008 at 7:19 am | Permalink
Good morning Nano,
So, do you then agree that there is a political component to the debate?
Good morning to you, Hank.
Of course I agree that there is a political component to the debate. I just wish that the Conservative point of view wasn’t so wrong headed.
My reasoning:
Too much carbon in the atmosphere is a bad thing.
Humans are contributing to the amount of carbon in the atmosphere.
If too much carbon in the atmosphere is a bad thing, then isn’t cutting down on the amount of carbon humans are putting into the atmosphere a good thing?
Algore or no, your position on climate change just doesn’t feel right. It seems more like you’re trying to score points than actually improve the situation. With all due respect, your position just doesn’t pass the smell test.
Nano
Posted May 20, 2008 at 7:07 am | Permalink
HLP,
Since you’re a conservative, it follows that you’d argue against the existance of climate change.
——————
No one is denying climate change.
It’s the source and the scope of climate change.
Kind of like the Sierra Club in Louisiana always crying about wetlands. One hurricane took care of their problem and wiped out more species than man has in 200 years.
Mother nature is not getting the credit it is due and is much more powerful than these weak kneed alarmists.
As one of the article stipulated, climate change and predicton is uncertain. We understand very little about it.
Regular, I’m a fairly uncomplicated person. It seems to me that if you’re in a hole and being in a hole is a problem, the first thing you should do is quit digging.
Same with carbon. If too much carbon is a problem…..
Carbon introduced into the atmosphere by man is pollution. Can we agree that polution isn’t a good thing? Why do some Conservatives seem to take such pride in degrading our environment? Maybe the Libs don’t have it exactly right, but it seems to me that doing nothing isn’t the solution, either.
What has happened to Vaughn T?
Was anyone else disturbed by the news on the front page of the paper telling us four Wichita families are suing over the rules limiting school hours to English only?
Several thoughts rushed in and I don’t have any clear thoughts yet. All I know for sure is this is disturbing news.
A place children attend school of their own free will (no force!) can’t make rules and expect they are followed?
Families would sue institutions which deliver such valuable services to families?
Sounds too much like a personal vendetta to me. I would like to hear more and have an aversion to hearing more — all at the same time!
gster, I spoke with him this week (was that just yesterday?) and he is fine — very busy and preparing to share “the youngers” college graduation. He hopes “things” will allow him to slow down soon.
Nano
Posted May 20, 2008 at 8:40 am | Permalink
Regular, I’m a fairly uncomplicated person. It seems to me that if you’re in a hole and being in a hole is a problem, the first thing you should do is quit digging.
Same with carbon. If too much carbon is a problem…..
Carbon introduced into the atmosphere by man is pollution. Can we agree that polution isn’t a good thing? Why do some Conservatives seem to take such pride in degrading our environment? Maybe the Libs don’t have it exactly right, but it seems to me that doing nothing isn’t the solution, either.
—————————-
Pollution is bad, agreed. However, confusing climate change and the effects of pollution is not always straight forward.
As far as carbon, I’ve read study after study that co2 lags temperature by 800 years. What that means is that temperature rise occurs first, then co2 rises afterwards. The source doesn’t matter. It is quite complicated with all the carbon sinks and other natural climate variations.
You should re-examine your statements that poison the discussion before it even gets started. For example, you state:
*first thing you should do is quit digging
*Conservatives seem to take such pride in degrading our environment
*doing nothing isn’t the solution, either
Why must you qualify your discussion with poisonous statements?
The reality is that co2 has climbed much slower in the U.S. than it has in Europe among those nations that signed the Kyoto Treaty? Why? Because the U.S. is doing something and effects are showing.
I don’t find anyone taking pride in pollution, show me where and I’ll condemn them as well.
Whenever you’re ready to come back to the table and discussing the issue without first poisoning the well, then let me know.
lindainks55
Posted May 20, 2008 at 8:42 am | Permalink
Was anyone else disturbed by the news on the front page of the paper telling us four Wichita families are suing over the rules limiting school hours to English only?
Yes, that was disturbing. I was under the impression that being a private school, they could enforce that kind of rule.
Was anyone else disturbed by the news on the front page of the paper telling us four Wichita families are suing over the rules limiting school hours to English only?
Hard for anyone to comment on such matters without being called a racist, especially if you’re not a Lib. :)
I think a compromise could be reached. Perhaps the recess time, the children could use Spanish. However, during classroom time and official events, only English.
Having lived in San Antonio, Texas for awhile, I can tell you for the most part, people speaking Spanish isn’t too much of a problem. When I lived there about 60 percent of the population was Hispanic, so the situation is a bit different.
Does Obama plans to disarm America?
http://www.macsmind.com:80/wordpress/2008/02/27/obama-plans-to-disarm-america
Regular
Posted May 20, 2008 at 8:53 am
Hard for anyone to comment on such matters without being called a racist, especially if you’re not a Lib.
Isn’t that the truth? I don’t consider myself a racist. It pisses me off no end when I have to make the English/Spanish choice to do business on the phone.
Hello! I’m in America. Why do I have to choose between the language of the land and a foriegn language? I don’t think it’s too much to ask that if you expect to be an American or live in America, you speak the language.
The policy was enacted (according to the article in the paper), “in response to four students who were using Spanish to bully others and to put down teachers and administrators.”
I think we can all discuss this without being racist, can’t we? Let’s say the problem was some speaking PIG LATIN for the purposes of our discussion. Would that make it possible to discuss without prejudice?
Linda?? I thought thaat “English only” issue was only a problem at St. Anthony’s???
Linda- Thanks
G
Regular, I don’t want to look like I’m picking on you, but:
Regular
Posted May 20, 2008 at 8:49 am
“Why must you qualify your discussion with poisonous statements?”
“Whenever you’re ready to come back to the table and discussing the issue without first poisoning the well, then let me know.”
Pot, meet kettle, LOL!
Ia on’tda noa bouta hisa ituationsa. Hard to type PIG LATIN! Harder than trying to speak it…
OK, we can agree diversity has benefits and challenges.
But when discipline is needed should the adults in school be able to enact rules that are fair, harm no one, and are solving the problem?
Chas, here’s the link to the little we are told from the article in the paper.
http://www.kansas.com/news/story/409424.html
gster, I spoke with him this week (was that just yesterday?) and he is fine — very busy and preparing to share “the youngers” college graduation. He hopes “things” will allow him to slow down soon.
**********
Heard the same thing from him in an email not long ago. When you’re self-employed being extremely busy is a good thing.
I’m not going to invest a lot in this discussion, but it seems to me there are TWO issues.
One, is it harmful to have students speaking more than one language in school?
Two, does the school have the right to restrict that speaking.
I dont know the answers, but I will say this. Bilingual schools have been around for a long time. Out here they used to be German/English.
Having grown up in such a bilingual family, I dont think it hurt me or anyone else in our generation.
But my Dad stuttered as a child, and never really did learn to read. He was smart as hell, just functionally illiterate.
He blamed it on the fact that he got spanked at home for speaking English, and spanked at school for speaking German. And yet…
He served in WWII, built a successful farming business, had a great family life, and was, by most measures, a sucessful guy. He was fluent in speaking English, even with an accent.
But I will always remember the pain in his voice when he talked about how he got humiliated in school for speaking German at recess. He made a point of not teaching me German because he didnt want me to suffer for it or be teased for having an accent.
HEH! But us kids picked up on the swear words and some phrases anyway!
I have fairly strong feelings about this English speaking thing… I grew up in a family of immigrants… We only spoke the Native language at HOME or at family functions… Otherwise, it was ENGLISH ONLY!! I dont know why it is such a problem!!
HEEEEE! I was watching a cooking show yesterday where Bobby Flay had Aaron Sanchez show him how to make tortillas using a tortilla press. Flay asked him “how do you say ‘tortilla press’ in Spanish.
Sanchez looked at him like he lost his mind and said “tortilla press”. There is no Spanish word for it!”
Most of the Latinas I know in Tejas speak SPANGLISH more than anything else!
USD259 has an elementary which is a Dual Language Magnet. I think they use one language exclusively for a period and then the second language exclusively for another period. Math, science, gym, all subjects are taught and all communication is the language specified for that period. They meet with great success! Since they aren’t just teaching a language but using it for all communication.
GLOBAL COOLING UPDATE
“NOAA reports that April 2008 was a full degree (F) below normal making it the 29th coldest April out of 115 years for the United States, the coldest in 11 years. Much of the western 2/3rds of
the lower 48 were colder than normal. In Washington State, it was the second coldest April on record. In contrast in the east, in New York State it was the 3rd warmest.
NOAA reported the combined average global land and ocean surface temperatures for April ranked 13th warmest since worldwide records began in 1880. However as numerous peer-reviewed papers have shown in the last few years, the global (and even the United States) data sets overestimate the warming by as much as 50% because they downplay the importance of urbanization (thanks to the acceptance of flawed papers by Peterson and Parker) and because as Anthony Watts and Roger Pielke Sr. have shown, there is poor siting of many of the instruments and improper documentation and adjustments for land use changes around the sites.”
http://www.rightsidenews.com/20080520981/global-warming/global-cooling-for-april-2008.html
GLOBAL WARMING UPDATE
The fallout continues! (No, this is not a hoax article.)
Global Warming Linked to Increase in Kidney Stones
ORLANDO, Florida, May 19, 2008 (ENS) - Links between environmental conditions and urinary tract diseases are emerging from papers presented this week at the 103rd Annual Scientific Meeting of the American Urological Association taking place in Orlando.
Rising global temperatures could lead to an increase in kidney stones, according to research conducted by Margaret Pearle, Yair Lotan, and T. Brikowski and published in the “Journal of Urology.”
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/may2008/2008-05-19-091.asp
Place your bets. Gatorade stock or Starbucks?
OK Linda — my bad — It was St. Anne’s… I just skimmed that VERY early this morning… I still dont have a major problem with what St. Anne’s has done… Seems like they might want to back off of it maybe for recess or potty breaks…. But… If any of US went to live in Mexico, they arent gonna speak English for OUR benefit, or well being… WE need to learn the language of the country we go to!! That’s how my family members (now deceased) had to live when they came here from their homes in Europe…
The policy was enacted (according to the article in the paper), “in response to four students who were using Spanish to bully others and to put down teachers and administrators.”
In San Antonio, Texas even the Anglo kids know the insult and curse words in Spanish. :D
The problem then as I see it, is insulting the teachers and administration with rude language as well as bullying the other kids.
Those matters should be dealt with on a case by case basis.
Bad behavior, regardless of language should be dealt with.
I think the whole biligual thing is uncomfortable because there are people whom I don’t usually see as being racist, who have very strong anti-immigrant feelings. But, on the other hand, I get reports from the Southern Povery Law Center where they believe that some Nativist groups (as they call them) qualify for hate group status and have so designated some groups. One group the the SPLC identified was one in New England that had a local cable channel dedicated to denouncing the local Brazilian population of a town. That seemed a little over the top to me, but is an anti- “dial one for English” group rise to the level of racism? I think it would be possible for reasonable people to be on both sides of that question.
Yep Reg. I think they are addressing the symptom, not the problem.
That is why the Kansas Equality Coalition is concerned about getting anti-bully measures into schools.
Yes, I know, bullies have been around since the beginning of time. That doesnt make it ok.
Ask the folks who’s kids suffered at Columbine.
I have a question for all you fine folk this morning: How many of you would still be frequenting this nice Blog if the following were to occur:
1) The altruistic editors at the Eagle will allow
you to post as long as you are in congruence
will everything about them - their attributes,
their peccadillos, their triumphs and foibles,
heck - you name it.
2) Then, if some dude fancying himself the next
Richard Crowson sends a nasty little dig yer
way, and you try to respond (respectfully),
you’re banned before you can even open your
mouth - or keyboard, as it were.
Now, that would go over about as well as an Ann Coulter effigy in a punchbowl, wouldn’t it?
I can’t blame anyone for banning my Kansas-born keister if I’m disrespectful (and I have been disrespectful in the past, no doubt about it). I can’t send anyone to hayull for rebukin’ my bootie if it’s called for. But what the hellola? I betray the best side of myself and I get exterminated ‘fore I can even defend meself? What kind of god-loving country is this, anyway?
Oh well, the last time this happened, a very intelligent and discerning young man said I had “wit and intelligence.” I guess he forgot to add “flaming narcissist” to the list…….
I agree Steven — I had a conversation with Morris Dees several years back about this language thing… tried to impress on him that to me it isd just a matter of communications… and to me, what these folks do at home, or in their churches, isnt an issue for me… But, when they aare waiting my taable, or checking me out of a store, I hope it is somebody that can at least understand what I say, and whom I can understand as well…
FilmFan, are you saying you were banned from this blog?
Perhaps it was for nic switching, not disagreeing?
You sound an awful lot like Songbird.
Or did you just get the “awaiting moderation” message. We all inexplicably get that from time to time.
FilmFan,
I know you are referring to something, but without knowing what it is, hard to comment one way or the other.
FilmFan, most of us wonder why we still frequent this “nice” blog without consideration of your premises.
Wow, Chas, I seriously impressed that you had talked to Dees. It would be an honor to talk to that man.
Each year the SPLC provides a map of hate groups by state. There are neo-nazi groups in Wichita - which surprised me in a way. The SPLC listed The Westboro Church as one of their official Kansas hate groups - no surprise there, however.
Yes, KFG, I heard songbird’s voice, too. I do wonder if that is as an identifiable individual difference to the extent we (meaning, I assume, most of us) believe it is?
Nope - I wasn’t banned from this blog. And, darn it, why should I be? A skinny, stringy-blonde harridan is allowed to spew her spleen on national television - lambasting 9/11 widows and former presidential candidates while she’s at it, and this chick is a national threat? Don’t thank so.
My little nose is still a little (or a lot) out of joint this morning. In fact, I feel like a man must feel when his, er, “appendages” are smashed - or graavely undermined.
And I don’t like this feelin’. Menopause is supposed to do strange things to some women, and if this is one of ‘em, I’m callin’ it a day. Empathy is fine. Compassion is key. Sympathy is groovy. But feelin’ like a man - when you ain’t a man - that’s freak-aye.
I awoke at midnight last night - in a cold sweat with an overwhelming urge to leave the toilet seat up, leave the cap off the toothpaste and shave my chests. I had to down two Advil Liqui-gels to stave off this discomfiture.
As I said, I consider myself a very compassionate person - to a fault, if the truth be told. But putting myself in Bill O’Reilly’s place when he was castrated by Ann Coulter on national television isn’t somethin’ I want to repeat - ever.
I think if someone can speak two languages and opts to speak in a foreign language at a public setting, they are being very rude to those around them. And, chances are, the reason they’re speaking in a foreign language is because they are being insulting and rude.
Steven, there might even be a few churches in Wichita that could make SPLC’s list if you look REAL close… I wouldnt want to name any names, ya know…. but…..
Willing to bet money now:
FilmFan = songbird
Any takers?
Chas
Posted May 20, 2008 at 10:09 am | Permalink
Steven, there might even be a few churches in Wichita that could make SPLC’s list if you look REAL close… I wouldnt want to name any names, ya know…. but…..
**********
I can think of a couple. I believe KFG could, too.
We would probably all be in agreement of some of those on the list.
And no one would win the wager, Steven, since again we’d all be in agreement.
Which would be less insulting, to say that someone’s voice had a dramatic quality or a histronic sound? I will go with the former. Sorry, I couldn’t take anyone’s money. Oh well…
On the “voice” thing again, people do have idiosyncratic ways of writing. There is a computer program that was able to determine that Primary Colors was written by Joe Klein - when the book was published as being by anonymous.
The point being is that there is something empirically knowable about the ‘who is it?’ question.
I believe the identification errors come in when one assumes that similar or nearly identical content = identical authors. And screening out content can be difficult especially if it has an emotional impact on the reader.
R.L. calls - will try to be back later.
Chas. I have to confess, I am catching the end of the conversation. I don’t know much about the SPLC. From the context, it sounds like a hate group disguised as a church. I’m sarcastic often, but I really ask in earnest, what is the SPLC?
Don’t know if we’re hitting ‘peak oil’ during bush’s regime, but I believe we’re hitting peak oil prices during his term. Looks like it’ll break $130 pb today. Black Gold.
Southern Poverty Law Center. NOT a church.
A friend of mine took three years of spanish in High school. Every summer the class took a trip to old Mexico. He said it was funny as the bus would stop at a corner and the natives would smile and wave. All the while cursing them and saying things like “Oh you like little boys you stinking anglos”.
Then at least one or two members of the class would answer in perfect spanish to what ever the natives would say. The reaction was generally in English and no friendler that what was being said in Spanish.
ok, thanks KFG.
They’re saying Senator Kennedy’s recent seizure was the result of a brain tumor.
US billionaire Buffett backs Obama for president
FRANKFURT (AFP) - Warren Buffett, the world’s richest man, is backing Barak Obama for US president and thinks current US economic policy will push the dollar lower against other global currencies
Buffett told a press conference here Monday, “I will be very happy if he is elected president.
“He is my choice,” Buffett said.
Commenting on the US economy, the 77-year-old investor who is known as the “Sage of Omaha,” stressed that fiscal, monetary and trade policies were of great importance.
Posted May 20, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
They’re saying Senator Kennedy’s recent seizure was the result of a brain tumor.
——————
:(
Senator Kennedy, never liked his politics or some of his conduct, but he’s a marvelous speaker and his knowledge of history is astounding. I like it when he talks about history, he makes it come to life.
they just made the announcement that Sen. kennedy has a brain tummor.
UK Lawmakers approve embryo research.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080519/ap_on_re_eu/britain_embryos;_ylt=AulwZ.tNLuxyDPFCG51yyeis0NUE
Sad news about Senator Kennedy.
Yeah, very sad. They say this is one of the worst kind of brain tumors. But he’s feeling fine at the moment. I hope he takes some time for a “farewell” tour and to soak up all the praise and admiration so many feel. Not just for his family, but for him too.
He needs to know that his tireless efforts to make America live up to it’s promises have not gone unappreciated.
Even though a prophet is never without honor except in his home land.
America will approve funding of ESC research. Not funding this valuable research was about THIS president pandering to some he owed a debt. Not really paying the owed debt, just pandering and acting like he was paying them. Those blastocysts that aren’t used for potential good are thrown away. That’s the part those against using them for good always ignore. That’s the reality they can’t face.
You can tell how powerful a person is by how power his enemy is. Ted Kennedy has been one of the most powerful but beloved enemy to many through out the years. He has a interesting life to say the least, I will not bury him yet. There is still one more powerful enemy he has to face, no bets yet on how this will work out.
My father died of a brain tumor in the summer of 1972. This was very stressful for our entire family; moreover, it took the doctors several months to proffer a correct diagnosis. He, too, had a seizure before finally being hospitalized in Wichita (the doctors in Hays couldn’t handle the magnitute of this issue at that time).
I am very sad for Senator Kennedy, his family, friends and colleagues at this time. Unlike my own father (whose prodigious alcoholic intake probably outmatched Kennedy’s) - Ted Kennedy is widely revered as a loving, dedicated father. Whatever the mistakes of his past - his family ties have remained impeccable. That, to be sure, is one thing I’ve always admired about the Kennedys.
Let me make a plea to all anti-abortion activists at this time. If nothing I say makes any sense - at any time and at any place - please heed this heartfelt entreaty: Don’t use this tragic incident to hurl scorn upon the afflicted senator.
Some things defy and transcend moral differences, political sophomorism and personal frailty. One of these things, to be sure, is a courageous woman who overcomes prevailing medical opinion and personal travail to miraculous results. The other thing, obviously, is cancer. Cancer isn’t funny; a brain tumor isn’t a cakewalk. And, because of Senator Kennedy’s impenetrable family ties, many people will be left bereft.
That’s probably another transcending factor we all need to respect.
Great words:
” Do we operate under a system of equal justice under law?
Or is there one system for the average citizen and another for the high and mighty? ”
~ Senator Ted Kennedy, 1973
Manslaughter in Massachusetts :
“Any person who wantonly or in a reckless or grossly negligent manner did that which resulted in the death of a human being was guilty of manslaughter, although he did not contemplate such a result.” In other words, negligence in exposing another to injury by doing an act, supplied all the intention the law required to make a defendant responsible for the consequences.
- Senator Kennedy’s driver’s license had expired on February 22, 1969 (nearly 5 months before the accident) and had not been renewed.
- Although driving with an expired license was only a misdemeanor, it did provide the evidence of negligence needed to prove a manslaughter charge in the death of Mary Jo Kopechne.
- The license problem was “fixed” by officials at the Registry of Motor Vehicles, under the direction of Registrar Richard McLaughlin, before the legal proceedings began.
- On March 14, 1958, Deputy Sheriff Thomas Whitten had been on routine highway patrol outside Charlottesville, Virginia, when an Oldsmobile convertible ran a red light, sped off, then cut its tail lights to elude pursuit. A license check revealed the car belonged to Edward M. Kennedy, a 26-year-old law student attending the University of Virginia. Kennedy had previously been fined $15 for speeding in March 1957.
- Whitten was on patrol at the same intersection a week later, he testified, “And here comes the same car. And to my surprise, he did exactly the same thing. He raced through the same red light, cut his lights when he got to the corner and made the right turn.” Whitten gave chase. He found the car in a driveway, apparently unoccupied. Looking inside, he discovered the driver, Teddy Kennedy, stretched out on the front seat and hiding. Whitten issued a ticket for “reckless driving; racing with an officer to avoid arrest; and operating a motor vehicle without an operator’s license (Mass. registration.)”
- Kennedy’s attorneys were able to win numerous postponements, but eventually he was convicted on all charges and paid a $35 fine. Court officials never filed the mandatory notice of the case in the public docket, however, and Kennedy’s name had not appeared on any arrest blotter. Instead, a local reporter discovered the case when he spotted 5 warrants in Kennedy’s name in a court cash drawer.
- Three weeks after his trial, Ted Kennedy was caught speeding again, and still operating without a valid license.
- In December 1959, Kennedy was stopped again for running a red light and fined $10 and costs. In Whitten’s view, “That boy had a heavy foot and a mental block against the color red. He was a careless, reckless driver who didn’t seem to have any regard for speed limits or traffic ordinances.”
FilmFan,
I don’t know you or you me, and from what a lot of folks on the blog probably feel towards me, as I can be rather opinionated and caustic, I am somewhat concerned about saying anything to you at all but…
Your post above is beautifully written and wonderful advice. Thanks! I don’t agree with or even like Kennedy, but I pray him the best and also his family.
I am sorry about your father death, and for his alcoholism and how that might have hurt you. I have some experience with that as well with parents. Sorry to jump in but I wanted to express my agreement with you, and let you know that I value what you have expressed and will take your advice to heart, thank you.
The Technology Future.
The ways in which we view the Internet will be changing soon. News, Entertainment, reading.
take a look…
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/637132/this_technology_will_blow_your_mind/
Saturday July 19, 1969 1:45 AM
- Joe Gargan, Paul Markham, and Senator Kennedy arrived at the ferry landing and parked the car facing Edgartown. During their drive from the bridge, Gargan had been insistent: “We have got to report this accident immediately,” he had said repeatedly. Markham agreed, interjecting an occasional, “You’re right, Joe.”
- Markham did not enjoy the same position of authority with Ted Kennedy that Gargan did, and because he “was really in pain, he wasn’t being as forceful as I was about reporting the accident,” Gargan recalled.
The Senator was silent during these discussions, but it was clear to Gargan that he did not want to report the accident at this time.
- Kennedy began expressing alternate ideas about the situation:
- “Why couldn’t Mary Jo have been driving the car? Why couldn’t she have let me off, and driven to the ferry herself and made a wrong turn?”
- Kennedy asked to be brought back to the cottage to establish the story. After a while he would leave.
- Kennedy suggested that when he was back at the Shiretown Inn, Gargan could “discover” the accident and report to police that Mary Jo had been alone in the car.
Saturday July 19, 1969 2:25 AM
- At the Shiretown Inn in Edgartown, a room clerk named Russell Peachey was patrolling the premises when he observed Senator Kennedy standing at the bottom of the stairway leading up to his room on the second floor.
- Peachey asked, “May I help you in any way?”
- Kennedy told him he had been disturbed by noises coming from a party next door. “I’ve looked for my watch and seem to have misplaced it. What time is it?” he asked.
- Peachey looked through a window to a clock in his office. It was exactly 2:25 AM. Because the Senator appeared somewhat distressed, Peachey asked him, “Is there anything else I can do to help you?”
- Kennedy replied, “Thank you, no,” and returned to his room.
- Peachey recalled that “He didn’t look to me like a man who had come downstairs to complain about noise. He was just standing there. He was fully dressed. I think he was wearing a jacket and slacks. Usually, a man who just wants to complain about noise doesn’t get up and get fully dressed to do it. Especially at 2:25 in the morning.”
- Kennedy made no mention of the accident, passing up yet another opportunity to inform authorities.
Saturday July 19, 1969 9:00 AM
Before making a final decision to report the accident, Kennedy first wanted to talk with David Burke, his Administrative Assistant. The Senator asked where there was a phone he could use that would allow him to speak without his conversation being overheard.
Saturday July 19, 1969 10:00 AM
Arena arrived at the Edgartown police station, and found Kennedy in his office using his phone.
- “Hello, Senator. I’m Jim Arena,” he said.
- Kennedy hung up, came around the desk to shake Arena’s outstretched hand and said, “Hello, Jim.”
- From his state trooper days at Suffolk County Courthouse in Boston, Arena recognized the other man with Kennedy as former US Attorney Paul Markham. Arena said, “I’m sorry about the accident.”
- “Yes, I know,” Kennedy said. “I was the driver.”
- “Nothing in my prior career as a police officer,” Arena recalled later, “had prepared me for standing in a wet bathing suit and shaking hands with a United States Senator - and a Kennedy - who tells me he is the driver of a car from which I have just removed the body of a beautiful young girl. I was stunned.”
John Farrar, the rescue diver who examined the Chappaquiddick accident scene, was convinced that Mary Jo Kopechne had not only survived the crash, but had also lived for some time by breathing a pocket of trapped air. Farrar did not believe that she had drowned, but instead had died by asphyxiation as the oxygen in the air she was breathing was used up and replaced with carbon dioxide. “She was alive, easily an hour, maybe two,” he said.
In John Farrar’s opinion, if the accident had occurred at 12:40 AM, Mary Jo Kopechne could have lived until 2:40 AM - an hour after Kennedy, Gargan, and Markham left the scene and headed for the ferry landing.
Mary Jo Kopechne deserve justice.
B M is such a cold hearted A$$Hole that he just cant drop the crap on Ted Kennedy, even with Kennedy’s diagnosis of a brain tumor… Such a fine, upstanding citizen B M is… hardly deserving of his self chosen Nic!! SHAME BM!!! SDHAME ON YOU!!!
Anybody else got the guts to put this Blog Puke in his place??
Sure Chas,
Right after you put the Crapn in his place for this comment on a memorial thread. The Republican Party lost a fierce defender when Jack Ranson died last week at age 78, after complications from heart surgery.
————————————————
CapnAmerica
Posted May 20, 2008 at 11:27 am | Permalink
Every time a Republican dies, another gay angel gets his wings .
Well, James, Ranson was certainly no friend of the gay community!!
Sure, chas.
Right after you scold the people who had a laugh-riot when Falwell died. Or Tihart’s son.
Ted Kennedy killed more people than Three Mile Island.
Ah yes, the McCluer standard for blog behavior - it’s okay if I do it and the mean old liberals have to change before I will or else.
It’s okay for McCluer to accuse Cosmos of lying over and over again, but when McCluer’s own lies are pointed out, then it is a “personal attack.”
Only in the little world of Mississippi Jim McCluer………………………….
Besides, James, I figured you would be right in there defending any of B M’s LIES and BS!!
“Ted Kennedy killed more people than Three Mile Island.”
Yep, tied with Laura Bush at one each.
Regular posted May 20, 2008 at 8:49 am
“As far as carbon, I’ve read study after study that co2 lags temperature by 800 years. What that means is that temperature rise occurs first, then co2 rises afterwards. The source doesn’t matter. It is quite complicated with all the carbon sinks and other natural climate variations.”
Read this,
‘The lag between temperature and CO2. (Gore’s got it right.)’
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/04/the-lag-between-temp-and-co2
“Second, the idea that there might be a lag of CO2 concentrations behind temperature change (during glacial-interglacial climate changes) is hardly new to the climate science community.
Indeed, Claude Lorius, Jim Hansen and others essentially predicted this finding fully 17 years ago, in a landmark paper that addressed the cause of temperature change observed in Antarctic ice core records, well before the data showed that CO2 might lag temperature. In that paper (Lorius et al., 1990), they say that:
changes in the CO2 and CH4 content have played a significant part in the glacial-interglacial climate changes by amplifying, together with the growth and decay of the Northern Hemisphere ice sheets, the relatively weak orbital forcing”
——
If CO2 levels had not risen, there would not have been as much warming.
Rising CO2 was both the effect and cause of the warming.
The “source” does matter. Nature is unable to “sink” the huge amounts of CO2 that humans have been puting into the atmosphere.
This time, humans are triggering the warming, by causing levels of CO2, methane, and other GHG’s to rise.
Figured that would be the reaction from duh Libs.
BlogMonitor is his own man. What he does he does on his own.
And of course WSClark has nothing ever to add, but insults and harassment towards me.
That poor b’a’st^rd drunk Clark has forgotten what it is to be a man.
Looks like the open thread is going down the crapper early today.
Rising CO2 was both the effect and cause of the warming.
Call the scientists of the World, cosmos has just discovered an impossibililty according to the laws of physics!
Disregard all those sinks like the earth, oceans and prevailing wind!
ding ding ding! science alert!
Well Nano, blame duh Libs like Chas, cosmos and WSClark.
I’ve just been posting. Clark will come across any thread and spoil it for others. He doesn’t care, he loves to spew his hate towards others.
“And of course WSClark has nothing ever to add, but insults and harassment towards me.”
Ha! I love to watch McCluer jump around like a frog in a blender - he twists and turns but just can’t accept the fact that he is done.
He can’t defend the lies because they are preserved on the Internet for all time. He can’t rationalize or excuse his bullshit, because he would open himself up, legitimately so, to charges of hypocrisy.
And he can never answer the questions……….
So he hops around, dodging and weaving, hoping that no one will notice.
“blame duh Libs like Chas, cosmos and WSClark.”
It’s all the Libs fault!! I tell you, those mean old Libs won’t let me get away with one single lie or one single personal attack!!!!
It’s the Libs, I tell you, it’s the Libs!!!!!!!!!
Thanks, Boxlock - I appreciate it.
I’m sorry that you share my woeful family history - to some degree, at least. But I would caution you thusly: Many families, including (but not limited to) those with alcoholic parents, STILL maintain viability and strong emotional ties.
Indifference, conversely, is deadly.
When my father belched his last Budweiser in 1972, I felt nothing. No sadness, no remorse, no glee, no vindictiveness - no nothing.
My late sister evidently attended ACOA meetings in the late 1980s, and she remarked to our mother, “Everyone else had wonderful memories to share - even amidst the alcoholism! I didn’t! Dad was just a ess-oh-bee!”
It took me many years - but I wholly concur with her sentiment here.
If there are family ties to be had - cherish them, nurture them, and hold onto them. This isn’t the time or place to validate my reasoning here - but trust me on this one. Families are vitally important.
I recently drove home to Hays, and it took me several days to recover. My father is long dead, but my stepfather and even my own mother don’t have much to impart. This was so depressing to me that I couldn’t drag my ath out of bed for nearly three days.
The Kennedys have certainly had their mistakes - their grandiose sense of entitlement (at least in the past) - for one thing. The poor and downtrodden have been beneficiaries of their public policies; their domestic staffs have been treated abominally, if their biographers are to be believed.
But, as a family man, Ted Kennedy has shined brightly. Comparing him with my own father is ludicrous.
But thanks for the affirmation!
I posted nothing but the truth. Factual information from the investigation of the tragic death of Mary Jo Kopechne.
There was no hate, no flame, no badgering other posters, no misappropriate use of CAPS, no nic-stealing. Nothing but the chronological events of the day.
Some cannot face the facts. The terrible actions which involve a United States Senator which resulted in the death of one of his employees. The awfulness of what T. Kennedy did that night - is much too horrible for some to bear.
Out of sight - out of mind.
Something Mary Jo’s parents had to live with the rest of their lives.
Tragically, the blog posters attack the poster, and ignore the terrible event. Nothing can come in the way of painting a party leader as heroic.
Ted Kennedy was what he was. Warts and all. Now, he faces the horrors of a brain tumor. WHile I have no political love for the man, at this point, it just doesn;t matter. Let him be. It’s not kind to speak ill of the dead and the nearly dead or extremely ill. He may nor may not deserve what you say (good or bad) but he deserves the giving human dignity and kindness in his hour of need. Let him be.
Jimmy Mac wants us to believe that he was once an Air Force Officer —– by his behavior here he proves otherwise
or ……
…. he was such a bad officer he got fraqgged —
I think the first no self control, no tact no back bone
we expect so much more of our military leadership it is hard to believe you were ever a part of it …
LR2 = cosmos
Mr. Monitor:
Who in the hellola said anything about excusing a crime - or dismissing the grief of the Kopechne family? If my research is correct, Mr. Kennedy faced the legal system and paid a large settlement to the deceased woman’s family. Was Mr. Kennedy’s action cold-blooded murder? Probably not. Was there neglect? Likely, there was.
My point is this: This isn’t the time to delineate a person’s faults - not unless they’re Osama Bin Laden or a WWII madman with a hideous moustache. What motivated your actions, one wonders? What do you gain from sharing all these facts at this time? Does it buttress your own ego? If so, I’m confused.
Calling us callous or uncaring is grossly unfair. But then again, I guess I’m not a compassionate person, according to the artiste and the uber-saved………………
Blogmonitor, they will soon immortalize Ted Kennedy, call him a hero, and make him a saint.
You are just raining the facts on their Lib parade.
Hospitalized Ted Kennedy Sees Mary Jo Kopechne’s Ghost
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i35663#this
FilmFan,
I am lucky, my parents were loving and kind to a fault if anything. My Dad struggled alone mostly with his demons and never let them out to hurt us intentionally, or otherwise, at least that we are consciously aware of. But alcoholism, none the less, has it’s effect on all. I have for the most part nothing but good memories of my childhood and since I was early out I did not live in their house much after mid high school. After graduating and starting college we became good friends as well as father and son.
I miss him.
I’ve made some mistakes with my kids, but it’s worked out, and so have they quite well in fact. Now I’m really trying not to make the same ones with my beautiful grandkids, and think I am doing better still.
Kennedy will use the “Laura Bush did it too!” defense when he meets St. Peter at the Pearly Gates.
“LR2 = cosmos”
Now, now, McCluer, you whine like a big baby if someone accuses you of being another poster, even if it is true.
Ya’ can’t break your own rules - that would make you a hypocrite.
I’m surprised they called for an ambulance immediately after Kennedy had a seizure.
They should have waited until the next morning.
Max. Don’t tell me you can get that old dog to hunt. Nixon was given the whole dog and pony show when he died. What’s your point about Kennedy immortalized? Is it a “Lib-rel ’spiracy” of some sort?
There are only a couple of posters that use “jimmy mac” WSClark and only one that spells it that way.
Blogmonitor = BM = Sh*T
D
N
F
T
T
“WSClark and only one that spells it that way.”
Well, McCluer, I don’t refer to you as “JimmyMac.”
I refer to you as Mississippi Jim, or JM, or Kansas, or Republikhan, or Republican, or Regular, or Blog Monitor, or McLiar, but never as “JimmyMac.”
Max — Your posts here aabout Kennedy are absolute TRASH!! You should be ashamed of yourself!!
Clark, he cant keep em straight!! LOL
Chas, why didn’t Kennedy call the police right away to save Mary Jo?
“ding ding ding! science alert!”
Poor jimmymac is so dumb he cannot even understand positive feedbacks.
Orbital changes caused a slight amount of warming, which slowly changed the ice albedo and warmed the oceans.
The slightly warmer oceans released some CO2.
The higher CO2 levels caused more warming, which caused more CO2 to be released, which caused more warming…
Higher CO2 levels were both the effect of the warming, and the cause of the warming.
Regular posted May 20, 2008 at 2:29 pm
“LR2 = cosmos”
Nope. Does little jimmymac want to make a bet, and lose some money?
Higher CO2 levels were both the effect of the warming, and the cause of the warming.
============================
Except for that bad ol’ La Ninja effect which makes the climate cooler.
Damn, even you would have to laugh, McCluer.
La Ninja - the Bruce Lee of Storms?
Say Regular, I’m sure man causes La Ninja, and La Bamba effects too.
Yeah, it’s a kick ass climate effector. :)
“Kennedy will use the “Laura Bush did it too!” defense when he meets St. Peter at the Pearly Gates.”
Max, I am staying out of the Kennedy thing at this point, though I jumped all over him that first day he went in to the hospital.
I do think your statement above has a more profound lesson or meaning to for us all to acknowledge than many are going to give it credit for.
There will be no lying, no excuses, no comparing when that day comes. ONLY TRUTH!
There are several that have used that weak Laura Bush accident, when she was 17 yrs old, equating it with what Kennedy did. That kind of comparison will be met with fire so to speak.
Don’t forget La Taco Grande.
El Beano Burrito Grande is the real SOB that causes Global Warming.
Results from a deeper ice core,
‘Greenhouse gases highest for 800,000 years’
http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUSL1440399320080514
“Greenhouse gases are at higher levels in the atmosphere than at any time in at least 800,000 years, according to a study of Antarctic ice on Wednesday that extends evidence that mankind is disrupting the climate.
…
“We can firmly say that today’s concentrations of carbon dioxide and methane are 28 and 124 percent higher respectively than at any time during the last 800,000 years,” said Thomas Stocker, an author of the report at the University of Berne.”
More at link.
A graph of CO2, methane, and temperatures over the past 800,000 years (starts 1000 years from present)
‘Ice cores reveal fluctuations in the Earth’s greenhouse gases’
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-05/uoc-icr050808.php
I know Box, not nice to make fun of a dying person.
Even Nixon was immortalized as almost a saint, so I shouldn’t be surprised. (Though I’m not aware of Nixon killing anyone.)
Cosmos your 2nd link refutes your 1st link.
I wonder which one, if either, are correct.
It aint warming cosmos, aint going to for several more years. If it does warm in the future it will be better for mankind.
“The debate is over.”
Al Gore!
“Cosmos your 2nd link refutes your 1st link.”
What part?
Phew! hotter outside than I thought - mowed the yard and did some trimming…
Must have been those beans I had yesterday increase the methane levels causing a temperature rise!!
But hey - some nice lemonade and I’m chillin…
“MaxGrobnik” shows his ignorance with –
“I’m not aware of Nixon killing anyone.”
For starters, read the names on the right-hand side of the Vietnam Memorial. You know, the guys who died after Nixon got elected with his “secret plan to win the Vietnam War.”
And jimmymac seems to be so dumb that he does not understand that El Niño-Southern Oscillation is an “oscillation”.
ENSO does not cause long-term global warming or cooling.
A change in Earth’s GHG’s does cause long-term warming (or cooling).
Laura’s tragedy, always reminds me of that old song “Tell Laura I love her…”
Hank Price believes that this graph shows that the Earth is cooling.
http://www.realclimate.org/images/giss-15yr.jpg
cosmos_originally
Posted May 20, 2008 at 3:48 pm | Permalink
Hank Price believes that this graph shows that the Earth is cooling.
http://www.realclimate.org/images/giss-15yr.jpg
————————
Wow cosmos!
0.57ºF increase in 25 years! I’m sweating here!
Your 2nd Link shows more CO2 then today, back in roughly 125,000 years ago, and 250,000 years ago, and 350,000 years ago, and 425,000 years ago.
Monkey, Nixon got us out of Vietnam.
Just like Obama is gonna get us out of Iraq.
What’s laughable about a 0.57ºF increase is that most of it can be explained due to statistical error and deviation.
There is no such thing as an equilibrium temperature for the planet earth, it is in a constant state of change.
Average the temperature of the Antarctic and the Mojave Desert and tell me if you feel a temperature change where you are living. :D
The glacial periods last 100,000 years on average, and the warm interglacial periods – such as the one we are now in – last an average of 10,000 years.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-05/uoc-icr050808.php
——————————————————————————————————-
It’s been 12,000 years since the last Ice Age, I would think we’d want to continue to delay the next ice age, as we are 2,000 years over due already!
“MaxGrobnik” proclaims –
“Nixon got us out of Vietnam.”
Tell that to all the people whose loved ones are inscribed on the right-hand side of the Vietnam Memorial.
immymac also seems to be so dumb that he,
* Does not know the difference between the Celsius and Fahrenheit scales.
* Incorrectly believes that the Earth is warming uniformly at all latitudes.
It’s called conversion cosmos, I converted the celsius to fahrenheit. Learned that about the 5th grade or so.
I correctly believe that an average global temperature is a farce. There is no such animal.
The concept is ridiculous. The planet earth is an open looped, ever changing system with constant natural climate variations. To state there is an average temperature and even more ridiculous, and average increase of temperature due to a very specific gas is ludicrous.
It’s very laughable and the most unscientific proposal in the last 500 years of science.
MaxGrobnik posted May 20, 2008 at 4:00 pm
“Your 2nd Link shows more CO2 then today, back in roughly 125,000 years ago, and 250,000 years ago, and 350,000 years ago, and 425,000 years ago.”
Read my 3:33 pm post,
“A graph of CO2, methane, and temperatures over the past 800,000 years (starts 1000 years from present)”
Read the label on the graph, “Age (1000 years before present)”.
http://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/pub/8131.php?from=114124
Read the top # on the CO2 scale — it is “300″.
CO2 today is above 380
Graph with CO2 measured at Barrow, Mauna Loa, Samoa, and the South Pole.
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/insitu.html
More sites,
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/contents.htm
How many soldiers died while Clinton was in office?
Re Anthony Watts, Steve McIntyre and U.S. surface stations,
http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/2007/09/deniers-rediscover-hockey-stick.html
“To be honest, this is starting to look like a great validation of GISTEMP.”
Hey Max, cosmos is concerned about that 80parts per million increase (300-380ppm)
Did you know that the average street side measurement for co2 in an office building can reach as high as 1000ppm co2?
Amazing huh?
:)
I thought long and hard before posting this, knowing the kind of posts it will draw from some of the most vile wingnuts here. They love bashing Sen. Byrd as much as they do Teddy.
But…
If you can watch this, and NOT be moved, not feel the friendship these guys have shared, not feel the sense that he realizes no one, including himself is immortal…
Then you are one heartless sumbiotch.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?iref=videoglobal
If anyone is on the telephone line with Pat Roberts, a good question for him would be how he stood on removing the suing S.A. for supply manipulation.
House passes bill to sue OPEC over oil prices By Tom Doggett
Tue May 20, 2:27 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved legislation on Tuesday allowing the Justice Department to sue OPEC members for limiting oil supplies and working together to set crude prices, but the White House threatened to veto the measure.
ADVERTISEMENT
The bill would subject OPEC oil producers, including Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela, to the same antitrust laws that U.S. companies must follow.
The measure passed in a 324-84 vote, a big enough margin to override a presidential veto.
The legislation also creates a Justice Department task force to aggressively investigate gasoline price gouging and energy market manipulation.
“This bill guarantees that oil prices will reflect supply and demand economic rules, instead of wildly speculative and perhaps illegal activities,” said Democratic Rep. Steve Kagen of Wisconsin, who sponsored the legislation.
The lawmaker said Americans “are at the mercy” of OPEC for how much they pay for gasoline, which this week hit a record average of $3.79 a gallon.
The White House opposes the bill, saying that targeting OPEC investment in the United States as a source for damage awards “would likely spur retaliatory action against American interests in those countries and lead to a reduction in oil available to U.S. refiners.”
The administration said less oil going to refineries would limit available gasoline supplies and raise fuel prices.
Foreign investment in U.S. oil infrastructure has declined in the last decade. But the state-owned oil companies of several OPEC nations are owners of U.S. refineries, and those investments could be affected if the legislation becomes law, said Arlington, Virginia-based FBR Capital Markets Corp.
The bill also requires the Government Accountability Office to carryout a study on the effects of prior oil company mergers on energy prices.
The Senate would still have to approve the House measure.
The Senate previously approved similar legislation as part of a broad energy bill. However, the OPEC-suing provision was removed after White House opposition in order to get the underlying energy legislation signed into law.
Looks to me like the Obstructionist are doing everything they can to protect oil. Need to throw the bums out!
Regular posted May 20, 2008 at 4:41 pm
“Hey Max, cosmos is concerned about that 80parts per million increase (300-380ppm)
Did you know that the average street side measurement for co2 in an office building can reach as high as 1000ppm co2?
Amazing huh?”
What’s “amazing” is that jimmymac does not seem to know that,
* CO2 has increased by about 100 ppm (not 80) since the pre-industrial age.
* Global, well-mixed CO2 measurements are relevant to global climate — not spot measurements taken near vehicles, coal plants, etc.
“blog monitor” is James again.
And as usual, despicable.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/
“Anomalies and Absolute Temperatures
Our analysis concerns only temperature anomalies, not absolute temperature. Temperature anomalies are computed relative to the base period 1951-1980.
The reason to work with anomalies, rather than absolute temperature is that absolute temperature varies markedly in short distances, while monthly or annual temperature anomalies are representative of a much larger region. Indeed, we have shown (Hansen and Lebedeff, 1987) that temperature anomalies are strongly correlated out to distances of the order of 1000 km.
Thank you for the link kfg. But it is busy now and I will see it later.
I’m not the biggest fan of Senator Kennedy. I didn’t like that he endorsed Obama. I THINK he did this because he is harkening back to older days when the cons could be worked with.
Because they were in the minority. That is the ONLY way they can be worked with. And we are about to have that chance. But I think the bipartisanship of Senator Kennedy’s day is out of place now and for the foreseeable future. At least I hope it is. It isn’t the time until some wrongs are righted.
This is a man who survived enough tragedy for several lifetimes. Any of the proudly “self reliant” cons posting this forum would have been reduced to the fetal position by what he has been through. Any of the radio goons who regularly savage him would be crushed by the weight he has carried.
He IS a fighter. But I fear this is a fight he cannot win. I hope he comes through this.
But if not…
I hope he can continue as long as possible in the Senate. I hope his illness will not be used in ANY way.
He spoke words before I was born that touch me to this day.
May they serve as HIS mark going forward and living or dying with dignity.
“He saw wrong and he tried to right it.
He saw suffering and he tried to heal it.
He saw a war, and he tried to stop it.”
Just saw this headline, who does HP think they are that they should earn the same profit margin as a commodity distributor?
HP second-quarter operating margin rises to 10 pct
We can’t get a Kennedy thread?
Come on, people.
Do you need a Kennedy thread now? Can’t you wait until he dies?
How much attention does one man get? I’m sure there are memorial services and prayers somewhere on the net for Teddy. Don’t bother sending flowers. He has plenty of x-girlfriends to fill the entire hospital with flowers. Plenty of former lovers.
Build him a shrine and put him in the ground a little prematurely aren’t you?
Has anyone read about the link with heavy Scotch consumption and brain cancer?
Probably no one in Congress helped people like blogmonitor more than Teddy Kennedy, but bloggie is such a dumb$hit all he can do is mock the guy while he’s dying.
Yup.
Blogmonitor’s a CON.
Ted Kennedy’s news today is heartbreaking for all who have looked up to all that he has done for this country. Whether you like him or not, he deserves some respect throughout his illness.
Were it a Democrat or a con.
My understanding is that if any other politician found themself in Ted Kennedy’s place?
Kennedy would be the first to their side.
Can the act James. Everyone knows “blogmonitor” is you.
I do hope the best for Kennedy and his family, this is going to be very hard for all.
That actually is sincere, but now the tasteless humor.
How can a scotch bottle lodged in the skull be considered malignant?
“He saw wrong and he tried to right it.
He saw suffering and he tried to heal it.
He saw a war, and he tried to stop it.”
He saw a bottle of scotch and he drank it.
He saw another and he drank that too.
July 26th of this year would have been the 68th birthday of Mary Jo. But she died of suffocation in an upside down Buick while Teddy boy was calling in markers and making excuses for driving off a bridge.
Possibly he was in shock. Possibly he had a concussion. Possibly he was too drunk to understand the consequences of his actions.
Possibly he was just a spoiled, sorry, disgusting human being.
Feel sorry for his family? I’ve always felt sorry for the families of the Kennedy men. They caused more pain and anguish to their loved ones than anybody should have to endure.
“Boxlock” and Hank never fail to be consistently loathable.
FilmFan,
Sorry, I tried to respect your wishes and keep shut with Kennedy in such dire straights, and I truly do feel sorry for him and his family at this time like him or not and hope he does well or as well as possible.
But, the flesh is weak, and that last one just slipped out.
‘dire straits’, not ’straights’
BlueJay,
You know that was just for you.
Kennedy was always throwing scraps to mongrel pups.
I knew you would be a great fan of his.
HLP,
Way to show the concern trolls how it’s done, what with weeping for Mary Jo Kopechne AND the women of the Kennedy claim! Still, HLP, by piling it on so thickly, you’ve removed all doubt that your sincerity act isn’t ready for prime time.
Spare us the crocodile tears, HLP. They are a dishonor to Senator Kennedy and ought to be a source of embarrassment to you.
“Clan,” not “claim.”
Thanks CF2K,
I’ll take your advice to heart. I can think of no other poster that could preach about sincerity better than you!
HLP,
Um, I think you mistake my use of SARCASM for INSINCERITY. Not really the same thing. At all.
But I guess it’s an understandable conflation for you to make, given that Irony Deficiency–what I like to call “Wingnut Anemia”–comes with the Right-Wing territory.
I would like to extend my services to anyone who desires to be comforted during the trying times as a result of Senator Kennedy’s growing tumor.
I have provided counsel to one of your own, a Chas fellow I believe in the past. Since he expressed concern over other bloggers on this blog, I thought perhaps I may be of assistance to any of you.
I know that just talking about your problem provides a heavenly release for many souls (in this case Ted’s festering tumor). Of course, anything you say will remain strictly confidential known only to God and our two hearts. I am a good listener.
It is good to have a confident who also happens to be a professional in religious services.
I am here for any of you.
You appear to be improving Chaplain. At least you didn’t write out “Head Chaplain Corpse” this time.
(chortles)
Mr. Regular,
Even some of us men of the cloth have a sense
of humor. I chose my words carefully when I last visited your blog.
See video on it bull killer!!
http://video.ap.org/v/Legacy.aspx?partner=en-ap&g=8F49641D-7553-402E-B712-C31F81E6DC71&t=s60&p=ENAPus_ENAPus&&f=KSWIE
Damned Sock Puppets!!
What a shameful display of human cowardice!! All of these attacks on Sen. Kennedy… Not even your FAKE chaplain can help you wingnuts out this despicable display of human avarice!!
SHAME on all of you numb skulls!! SHAME!!
No Blessing tonight — Numerous DumbS*it Posters know who you are… Shameful displays… Such vitriolic hatred against a man with a brain tumor!! A man who accomplished more in his life than most are capable of, in spite of the human tragedies that have plagued him and his family for all these many years — How many of you VILE posters here have had a brother that was POTUS, or AGUS… Shameful idiotic behavior!!
Blessings on Kennedy and His Family!!
Oh chill out Chas,
We are reminded to love our enemies and pray for them and I take that to heart at face value. I don’t think, or at least I hope anyway, that everyone would be pulling for Kennedy to recover at best and not suffer at least, being wise enough to place themselves in that situation.
Kennedy is an EXTREMELY political person, and far left, that sets him up for comment. He has done some horrible things that we all know about, and to my knowledge has never admitted the extent of his crime with respect to Mary Jo’s death. Brain tumor or not that doesn’t change those facts nor that he drank so much he looked like a W.C. Fields look-alike in someways with the red nose and face.
To joke about his drinking may be in bad taste to some, but not to the extent as Kennedy’s own actions at times.
That’s ‘I DO think’ not ‘I don’t think’, above.
What crime?
He was driving. He had an accident. It happens.
Or rather it HAPPENED. A lifetime ago for me.
You cons will use and exploit anything. Exploit and abuse are what you are at your core.
Kennedy endured and survived personal tragedies that would have destroyed most of you.
BlueJay,
An accident?
Not so, he was drunk and he ran away to save his own political career and let her die. Which worked on both counts. That’s criminal and inhuman, not an accident.
Now:
” A grim diagnosis: Kennedy’s brain cancer is worst kind”
“WASHINGTON - A malignant glioma — the diagnosis doctors gave Sen. Edward M. Kennedy — is the worst kind of brain cancer. Malignant gliomas strike almost 9,000 Americans a year. Survival statistics are grim — few live three years and for the worst subtype, half die within a year.”
For those of us who will, Lib. or Con., I think a prayer is in order for this man and his family. This ain’t gon’a be easy for them or a lot of this nation. We are losing a political icon.
Ted Kennedy is responsible for as many deaths as Laura Bush. And Bill Janklow former Gov and congressman of S Dakota served time for doing the same thing that Laura did. I suspect being a pretty teenage girl gets a lot of people out of legal jams that would entangle us men.
TomPaine
Posted May 21, 2008 at 8:17 am | Permalink
Ted Kennedy is responsible for as many deaths as Laura Bush. And Bill Janklow former Gov and congressman of S Dakota served time for doing the same thing that Laura did. I suspect being a pretty teenage girl gets a lot of people out of legal jams that would entangle us men.
————————————-
Actually, some of story is untrue.
Kennedy, while drunk, abandon the vehicle he was in after an accident, indirectly causing a death. (leaving the scene of an accident)
Laura Bush,17 years old, doing 50mph in a 55mph zone, ran a stop sign and ended up killing a school mate when she ran into his car at an intersection.
Bill Janklow, former Governor, was driving 70mph in a 55 mph zone. Excessive speed was cited for the cause of the accident which resulted in a death. Also, Janklow, who bragged about being a ‘leadfoot’ had 13 traffic violations in 10 years.
Thank you Regular for putting the facts out there and not allowing an intentional misconception by the previous poster.
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