Thank you Kansas House of Representatives in voting to uphold the veto of the proposed twin coal fired power plants near Holcomb/Garden City. Hopefully this means the power plants won’t be built. Of course, I suppose anything could happen as long as the Kansas legislature remains in Topeka.
So our Kansas air quality and underground aquifer water should be safe from this new power plant attacker for another year.
US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after ‘vandalism’ edits to Wikipedia
Excerpt:
Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered “vandalism”. In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C……….
FAILURE OF IPCC TO PROPERLY CONSIDER SOLAR INFLUENCE
By Stephen Wilde
As I understand it the solar effect on climate has been discounted by the climate modelers because the variation in total solar irradiance between the peak and the trough of a single eleven year (approximately) solar cycle seems far too small to make any difference to global temperature.
There are a number of problems with their assumption as follows:-
The concept of total solar irradiance is purely a convenient construct. We do not know all the different mechanisms by which the sun can have an influence on global temperature either directly or indirectly. The use of the word “total” is therefore misleading. Even the concept of irradiance is vague and maybe incomplete.
The fact is that in the real observed world over centuries cooler weather has been seen to occur at a similar time to longer less active solar cycles and warmer weather similarly occurs with shorter more active solar cycles. If total solar irradiance does not seem to account for it that is no reason to ignore the phenomenon yet the modelers and the IPCC do so. I assume that the reason they ignore it is because, being unaware of the cause of the observed phenomenon, they have no numbers representing it to feed into the models. Their model output should therefore be qualified by an admission that at least one substantial observable real world phenomenon has been wholly omitted. Unfortunately for them that would render the models useless for policy making purposes.
The IPCC and the modelers do recently seem to have come to accept the influence of the EL NINO/ LA NINA cycle as a warming/cooling process. However they currently regard it as a purely redistributive mechanism rather than one which could actually be part of a driving mechanism. They would be in error if variations in solar energy input to the Earth operated a switch between the predominance over time of either EL NINO or LA NINA.
The variation between peaks and troughs in the solar cycle may be very small but if continued over long periods the effects could soon accumulate. If, say, the difference is only 1% then if a reduction or increase in incoming solar energy continues for many years, perhaps over several solar cycles, then it is the cumulative effect that should be considered and that could well be substantial over a number of decades.
There could also be other unknown mechanisms driven by solar changes that exaggerate the effect of small variations in total solar irradiance. A current possibility being investigated is a suggested link between cosmic ray flux and cloudiness. The flux varies depending on the energy from the sun and may drive cloudiness changes.
It is possible that over the millennia the earth has become a very accurate “thermometer” in terms of its reaction to solar heat or other forms of solar energy input. The entirety of the global heat budget may be very sensitive to solar changes. Over millions of years the earth has arrived at a temperature balanced between incoming solar energy and outgoing radiation of energy to space. The balance could well be much finer than we have so far realized. There are certainly no available figures that describe the sensitivity of the global temperature to variations in solar input and without knowing that level of sensitivity as a first step I fail to see how we can know anything useful about the sensitivity of the Earth to other influences
And the air fouling, water gulping ethanol p-lants that are being built are better? Or those oversized windmeills that take up a lot of space, and don’t put out much power?
Good Morning to you sir.
Ya know, I would have liked to be more friendly with cosmos, but he was always so very caustic and I guess I don’t have the maturity or thick skin to put up with it. Hope he’s doing well and not to cold.
Expect the court papers to fly. Time is on the side of the opponents, I think. The longer the delay, the more the costs rise. Soon, Sunflower wont be able to justify this plant.
Either that, or they’ll pass on all the delay costs to rate payers.
Anybody go to see Robert Nofacts last night at the Flint Hills Policy Institute (more accurately called the Koch Industries Shill-for-Hire) fundraiser?
I was going to go as a “billionaire for Bush,” but I got off from work too late to make it . . .
Solar output HAS been looked at as to its influence on climate. In the LONG term (BILLIONS of years) it is vary important. It is estimated that over the life of the earth solar output has increased by about 20% which is very significant. Note that I said BILLIONS, not millions. This works out to about 0.004% per million years (20%/5000 million).
So, when looking at VERY OLD climates and CO2 balances we must AND DO consider variations in solar output. In fact, this even lends credence to the Gaia hypothesis in that the earth’s atmosphere has evolved over the billiosn of years to accomodate these changes.
An atmosphere such as we have today (several hundred ppm CO2) would have resulted in an ice-bound earth a billion years ago. On the other hand, an atmosphere like the earth had back then (thousand ppm CO2) will lead to a hothouse. The study of truly ancient climates would be impossible without considering these changes in ’solar constant’.
However, over the past few tens of millions of years (the ‘ice ages’) is better explained by orbital fluctuatiosn, not solar output. It is this period that we use more when examining today’s climate. With this we can use simplifying assumptions that the continents are where they are and the sun is where it is. We do measure changes in both; however over the very short time frame of millenea these changes are miniscule.
It has been noted that in the recent years that if warming were driven by increased solar output the stratosphere would warm as much or more than the troposphere. The opposite is true; the stratosphere has cooled. Perhaps Mr. Wilde would like to try to explain that observation. I doubt that he can. However, we can and have done so.
Really Ben, this is akin to say that putting a ball on a string then rotating it near a fire will get different results than if the fire intensity is turned up or moved closer to the ball.
The heat and energy source hasn’t changed, but position has changed.
I guess it all depends on what your definition of “is” is.
“Time is on the side of the opponents, I think. The longer the delay, the more the costs rise. Soon, Sunflower wont be able to justify this plant.
Either that, or they’ll pass on all the delay costs to rate payers.
Like me.”
ksfarmgrrl,
Whether for or against the coal plants what you said is exactly what is going to happen. Wind can’t meet all our energy production needs or come close in the future, and natural gas is more expensive and needed to heat our homes.
Delaying this will simply cause costs to rise, and that must be paid for by the consumers, with a potential loss of new business and industry that won’t tolerate those high costs for energy.
This is a victory for politically correct hysteria and will cost us all in the future. Of course then those celebrating today can blame the energy companies for the higher costs too because they didn’t convince us when they should have.
“This is a victory for politically correct hysteria”
Uh, no, this is a victory for sane stewardship of our natural resources. The is actually a victory for western Kansas, although steve miller and wkreda and neufeld, et al. will never admit it or stop trying to convince western kansas that “we was robbed”.
We were “robbed” only to the extent that we may NOT be the environmental dumping ground for the rest of the state and the nation.
You want these plants so bad? Build them in YOUR neck of the woods.
HLP,
I strongly agree with you about the water, that’s going to be the even more valuable resource.
Why can’t the steam be captured, condensed, and used over and over in a closed system? Or captured and returned to the aquifer? That’s not technically difficult I wouldn’t think.
“Really Ben, this is akin to say that putting a ball on a string then rotating it near a fire will get different results than if the fire intensity is turned up or moved closer to the ball.
The heat and energy source hasn’t changed, but position has changed.”
Not really regular. Milankovitch cycles ARE difficult to understand but they have been sorted out. The interesting thing is that although there is no change in solar input into the earth’s system the change in ‘when and where’ has been able to tip us into and out of glaciatial cycles. That is where the ice-albedo and carbon feedback loops become so important.
Paleoclimatology is a fascinating field of study. Perhaps a few courses in it might be useful.
ksfarmgrrl,
Maybe you should wander off the farm once in awhile and learn more.
Elementary Equation:
Fact, energy needed wind too unreliable & backup generation needed + natural gas too needed + hydro electric impossible here + solar impractical and costly = coal cheapest, most practical and plentiful.
You may know chickens but not much about this.
“The interesting thing is that although there is no change in solar input into the earth’s system the change in ‘when and where’ has been able to tip us into and out of glaciatial cycles.”
—————————————–
No change eh?
Okay, calling up the sun to cancel solar flares.
Perhaps I’ll give mother nature a buzz and let her know to cancel the four seasons as well, as position of the earth doesn’t matter.
” Why can’t the steam be captured, condensed, and used over and over in a closed system? Or captured and returned to the aquifer? That’s not technically difficult I wouldn’t think”
Ben would know more about this.
It’s really A LOT more difficult than it sounds.
This has to do with the exchange of energy.
A coal fired plant produces tremendous volumes of superheated steam. Now to condense that back down to water, you’d first have to have a closed system.
Ok. Now you’ve got huge volumes of superheated steam with no place to go. You either have to expend energy cooling it (not efficient)
BlueJay
Posted May 2, 2008 at 11:05 am | Permalink
” Why can’t the steam be captured, condensed, and used over and over in a closed system? Or captured and returned to the aquifer? That’s not technically difficult I wouldn’t think”
————————-
Yeah, terribly difficult technology. Solved in the past by a guy named Fulton and utilized in steam locomotives.
Or perhaps the steam generated heating systems in Germany.
“ksfarmgrrl,
I do care about the area. We have land just south of the Okla/Texas border there in the panhandle, only a few miles from southwest Kansas.”
IIRC, that’s where some of the power from holcomb is going. That explains a lot.
Nice stab at making me out to be a hick. Seems like you always go for the easy punch. Whatever. I guess when you cant attack the substance of the post, you can always attack the poster.
Typical. The last refuge of the intellectually challenged.
BlueJay,
For ‘pete’s sake’, haven’t you had physics.
Energy must me ADDED to form steam, and is given off in re-condensing.
That how ‘highly energy efficient furnaces’ work The have secondary condensers to capture the heat! before it escapes the flue.
They could use the atmosphere or the ground as the heat sink (radiator), possible even recapture that heat, that was put there by the coal burning.
These coal fired plants do use a closed system for the generation of steam. Coal heats the boilers, making steam. The steam is used to drive steam turbines connected to electrical generators. The used steam is dumped into condensors. The condensate is pumped back to the boilers and the cycle starts over.
Now then, this system needs a heat sink. Water to cool the condensors that condense the steam. This water is cooled in cooling towers. This causes an incredible loss of water do to evaperation. This water is made up from the aquifer.
If the coal fired plants are built on a river, the river can be the heat sink-no cooling towers just a warmer river down stream. If the coal fired plant is near the ocean, no problem.
Electrical plants need several things to be economical to build and run. Transmission lines capable of removing the power. Supply of fuel that is available logistically. And, a heat sink.
Steam locamotives did not condense the steam, they dumped it. That’s why they had to fill up with water at the water towers more often than they needed to load coal.
ksfarmgrrl,
Oh….now don’t get your ‘feathers ruffled’. Ops, sorry, couldn’t help myself.
I didn’t mean anything terribly offensive towards you, in fact I wouldn’t tease if I didn’t, from what I know here, like and respect your posts, even those I disagree with.
Nothing was meant to offend….just tease.
It’s my little bit of gathering er ,”intelligence” on the enemy.
I should go look for a transcript of this somewhere. Maybe later I will.
Well frog mouth gets a call. Usual con drooling, “Rush I love you!” bleat bleat…
Then you hear a crash. And the older female caller says “Oh honey you took a header!”
This is followed by the sounds of a small child WAILING in pain.
The caller continues her slavish devotional to Limbaugh…
And the child KEEPS screaming.
And the caller keeps bleating.
Finally, frog mouth says, “Uh, is everything ok there? Can we get you some help?”
The caller then says, “Uh no, it’s just my grandson. He uh uh he stood up under a chair,”
Now I think it’s pretty obvious what happened here. Grandma watched her grandson “take a header”
probably falling OFF of a chair or maybe the top of the refrigerator. But this was not significant enough to interrupt her worship of the frog mouth!
HLP,
Is there a practical reason (probably money) that the cooling tower water that normally escapes could not somehow be captured by the use of a secondary heat exchanger so the water would not be lost to the atmosphere?
Hank, I admit my lack of knowledge in science, so this is an honest question.
Why cant they run cooling pipes underground and use the cool earth as the heat sink? Does the ground not work as a heat sink? Is there something other than a river or ocean they could use?
30,000 acre feet is a LOT of water to use each year. Even the two towers will use about 20,000 acre feet per year.
We just dont have that much water to lose. And when the aquifer is depleted, who will give up their water first? Steve Irsik and his big irrigation buddies? The feedlots? The packing plants? The people who drink it?
There is a finite supply of water available. I know all about first in time, first in right. I wonder how “senior” these sunflower water rights are.
What are YOU ALL gonna do when they run out of water and holcomb once again becomes a “stranded asset”.
When Sunflower comes to the legislature for a bail out, I guess we can expect all you conservatives to support it? Or will you bitch like usual and let Sunflower’s rate payers foot the WHOLE bill?
Really. What will you all propose to do in holcomb when the water runs out?
Cooling towers are great heat sinks. They circulate the water from the cooling towers to the condensors. The water lost to evaporation is made up from a supply of water.
In western Kansas that supply is the aquifer. At Three Mile Island they used the river.
BUDGET
The House passed their version of the omnibus budget yesterday afternoon after adding funding for early childhood programs that had been taken from the Childrens’ Trust Fund, expansion of the pharmacy school at K.U., funding for the Early Detection Works program for breast & cervical cancer, a 1% COLA for state retirees, and other items. The House’s final budget squeaked by on a 64-60 vote. It contains $29.3 million in general fund spending in addition to the $6.4 billion spending bill approved April 5. It would leave an ending balance of $82.5 million in the general fund for 2009. Spending for fiscal year 2009, which begins July 1, is estimated to exceed revenue by more than $450 million.
The Senate added funding for many of the same programs, but later eliminated much of the money when it voted 23-13 to slash all additional spending from the state general fund — about $34.5 million — from their original omnibus proposal. The omnibus bill — that chamber’s version of the final state budget — squeaked out of the Senate early this morning on a vote of 21-18. Some senators who originally voted “no” on the bill changed their vote.
Now a six-member negotiating team of House and Senate appropriations members will work out the spending differences between the two budget bills, while the rest of the legislators await their negotiated agreement . . . and consider other conference reports. Unlike the House budget committee, the Senate Ways and Means Committee’s original Senate catch-all proposal increased spending from the state general fund by $16.8 million.
COAL PLANTS
Gov. Sebelius won another round in the coal plant battle yesterday in the House. The House failed to override her veto of a bill that would allow two coal-fired power plants to be built near Holcomb. The final vote was 80 to 45, 4 votes short of the required 84. There are clearly a couple of no votes that could become yes votes but that is still 2 short. The House was in a lock-down (”call of the House”) for over 2 hours from about 7:00 p.m. until nearly 9:30 p.m. During that period, a couple of legislators hid out while the proponents tried to change votes by twisting arms and promising goodies.
There may be a motion to reconsider that vote on the veto today.
Such a motion must be made during the 24 hours after the original vote and must be made by someone who voted on the “prevailing side,” or voted no. House Speaker Melvin Neufeld, R-Ingalls, who represents the district next door to Holcomb, vowed to fight on. This time in the session, legislators are vulnerable because there may be a piece of legislation that is important to their district that is held hostage unless they change their vote. Assistant Minority Leader Jim Ward, D-Wichita, said he was not surprised that the vote had gone against the power plants, but had not expected the four-vote margin. The last time the House voted on the power plants, proponents had 83 votes. However, that was not a vote on an override but rather a vote on the underlying bill, SB 148. This sends a message. One of the newest additions to the coal plant legislation was a 2 cents per meter fee for every energy customer in Kansas. And the fee (tax) is the same for the widow in her little house and the big energy consumer business customer!
Opponents of the power plants picked up two unexpected votes from Johnson County Reps. Judy Morrison, R-Shawnee, and Benjamin Hodge, R-Overland Park. Not solid opponents. The coalition in opposition is made up of Sedgwick County Democrats, plus Democrats and moderate Republicans from the Topeka-Kansas City corridor. Moderate Republican Dale Swenson of Wichita was one wobbler who came down against the power plant. He said he was skeptical that it needs to be as large as proposed, since proponents first offered to reduce it by 200 megawatts of capacity, then put it back to its original size, coupled with an offer to sell 200 megawatts to Kansas City, Kan.
Supporters of the plant vowed to keep trying until the end of the session. “We have other options and we’ll be working on those and start again tomorrow,” Neufeld said. Asked if Thursday’s vote was the last on the issue, he replied, “Not hardly.” Opponents called the vote historic, saying it may go down as a turning point when Kansas became a leader in the movement away from old energy sources and toward sustainable, environmentally friendly technologies and energy efficiency. “True innovation and true ingenuity only comes when we make difficult decisions,” said Rep. Joshua Svaty, D-Ellsworth. The Sierra Club hailed the vote, and Sebelius, in a statement, called on lawmakers to come together and “work with me on a new comprehensive energy policy, one that truly serves the needs of entire state, east and west.”
The now six-month debate thrust Kansas into the forefront of debates about reliance on fossil fuels, climate change and renewable energy.
Sunflower had hoped to build two 700-megawatt coal-burning plants at its Holcomb power station. One sticking point is that only about 15% of the electricity would have gone to Kansas consumers. The newest proposal increased that to 30% if the BPU in Kansas City wanted to purchase power from Sunflower. KCK legislators said that they had no idea how much it would cost BPU customers to get power to KCK from Holcomb and how the power would be transmitted there. To attract votes, power plant supporters also inserted provisions that would have required Sunflower to invest more in wind energy, encourage solar power and give incentives for energy efficiency.
Neufeld met with Senate President Steve Morris, another coal plant supporter, immediately after the vote. Neufeld wouldn’t say what his next step is. He has repeatedly claimed that he has the votes to override a veto. Lawmakers had hoped to return home on Saturday, but the coal fight, if it continues, could delay adjournment. Rep. Pat Colloton, R-Leawood, who was seen as a swing vote, voted against the override. Colloton said she was leaning toward voting for the coal plants, but constituents changed her mind. “I’m amazed at how well educated many Kansans are on issues about the environment and energy,”
she said.
Several lawmakers on both sides said they can’t recall a fight that involved so much pressure and gamesmanship. Throughout the session, lawmakers complained about threats to derail bills of interest to particular lawmakers, or offers to support bills, in exchange for voting a certain way on coal. Leaders on both sides denied any arm-twisting. Rep. Tom Burroughs, D-Kansas City, who voted against the project, said supporters of the coal plant threatened to have the son of a Wyandotte County lawmaker fired from a union job site if the lawmaker didn’t support the coal project. Burroughs wouldn’t name the lawmaker or the source of the threat. “I’ve never seen an issue in my 12 years here divide this chamber like this issue has,” an angry Burroughs said on the House floor..
“Why cant they run cooling pipes underground and use the cool earth as the heat sink?”
As it turns out, I looked into this option a few years ago when we had to replace the HVAC system in my Mom’s house.
They had an early-era heat pump that needed to be replaced. I’d read about geothermal heat pump technology and asked for a bid.
There’s a lot of up-front cost with digging up the ground that will work for a heat pump. Back then, the computer projections (which assured a big reduction in kilowatts used) still couldn’t come up with an (at that time) economical way for the geo-based heat pump to pay off.
Kilowatt rates have since surpassed the projections at that time and we’ve saved a lot of money in the dead of winter and the worst of summer had we gon geo.
But the thought of digging up how many acres it would take to install an underground cooling system probably scares off such technology.
Hardly any corporation these days makes decisions based on long-term consequences; it’s all about the next quarter. No outfit is gonna create a geo-based water cooling system if they can get by with sucking up the Olagah Aquifer on the (short-term) cheap.
Does the ground not work as a heat sink? Is there something other than a river or ocean they could use?
Yikes amway. Just think, if sebelius had cared this much about the hate amendment. Or water. Good for her, but I gotta say, if she had cared one TENTH this much about the hate amendment, it would have never made it to the ballot, much less passed.
Did you all read Carolyn Marie Fugit’s ltte today?
She’s a waaaaaaaayyyyy better person than I!
And from another blog:
Shareholders Reject Bid To Strip Gay Protections At Wells Fargo
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A motion by a Wells Fargo shareholder to remove protections for LGBT workers from the company’s non-discrimination policy was defeated this week at its annual meeting.
Wells Fargo & Co. is the fifth largest U.S. bank by assets.
The motion called for the company to “to formulate an equal employment policy …that does not make reference to any matters related to sexual interests, activities or orientation.”
It said that homosexuality has been “condemned by the major traditions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam for a thousand years or more”.
The motion was crafted by Pro Vita Advisors, a group that helps promote conservative values.
The motion said that “While the legal institution of marriage between a man and a woman should be protected, the sexual interests of, inclinations and activities of all employees should be a private matter, not a corporate concern.”
The proposal was easily defeated.
Nearly 90 percent of the Fortune 500 companies have non-discrimination policies.
Conservative groups have attacked Wells Fargo for the past three years over its “pro-gay policies”.
In 2005 Focus on the Family withdrew its funds from Wells Fargo.
“Focus on the Family has elected to end its banking relationship with Wells Fargo, motivated primarily by the bank’s ongoing efforts to advance the radical homosexual agenda. These efforts are in direct opposition to the underlying principles and purpose of Focus, and thus a decision of conscience had to be made, and a stand taken,” said a statement from FOF at the time.
Focus said Wells Fargo had donated more than $14 million to pro-gay organizations in the last two decades.
Similar shareholder challenges to non-discrimination policies that include gays have been fought and lost at Ford Motor Company.
I’m still waiting to hear from all those businesses that were supposed to come to kansas after the hate amendment passed. You know, kay o’connor said that to me and the press after she stomped on us in the senate.
Still waiting kay.
And how is HER political career going? hehehehhehe
Looks like, according to Wells Fargo and Ford, kkk oconnor and bonbon huy and, well, more than seventy percent of kansans are WAY out of step with corporate America.
Doesnt that violate some sacred conservative oath?
Maybe just a kansas oath, since the democrats actually had a worse record on the hate amendment than the repukes.
And the silence from governor leadership was deafening.
And we wonder, being that far out of the mainstream of American business, why Kansas cant get new businesses to come here or old businesses to stay here.
Published on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 by The Independent/UK
Climate Change Could Force 1 Billion From Their Homes by 2050
by Nigel Morris
As many as one billion people could lose their homes by 2050 because of the devastating impact of global warming, scientists and political leaders will be warned today.
They will hear that the steady rise in temperatures across the planet could trigger mass migration on unprecedented levels.
Hundreds of millions could be forced to go on the move because of water shortages and crop failures in most of Africa, as well as in central and southern Asia and South America, the conference in London will be told. There could also be an effect on levels of starvation and on food prices as agriculture struggles to cope with growing demand in increasingly arid conditions.
Rising sea levels could also cause havoc, with coastal communities in southern Asia, the Far East, the south Pacific islands and the Caribbean seeing their homes submerged.
North and west Africans could head towards Europe, while the southern border of the United States could come under renewed pressure from Central America.
The conference will hear a warning from the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) that the developed world should start preparing for a huge movement of people caused by climate change.
The event, which is being organised by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR), will also be addressed by a Kenyan farmer and a United Nations worker based in Sudan. They will give first-hand accounts of previously fertile land that has already become parched in recent years as the desert spreads.
Craig Johnstone, the UNHCR deputy high commissioner, said yesterday that humanity faced a “global-scale emergency” whose effects would accumulate over the next four decades. He said it was impossible to forecast with confidence the numbers of people who would lose their homes through climate change. But he pointed to assessments of between 250 million and one billion people losing their homes by 2050. He said: “This will be a global-scale emergency, but … it will take place gradually and over a long period of time.”
Mr Johnstone rejected the suggestion that the industrialised West should shoulder the burden because it was to blame for much of climate change. But he said: “It’s the obligation of the people who have the means to be helpful to help. They have an obligation to humanity to help.”
He said the UNHCR already assisted in natural disasters such as earthquakes and the Asian tsunami of 2004 and added: “Perhaps even more challenging and more inevitable are the consequences of global changes.”
Currently the status of refugees - defined as people escaping personal persecution by the state - is controlled by the Geneva Convention of 1951. The agreement, however, would not cover people who become homeless, or even stateless, because of changes to global weather patterns.
Pressure is therefore growing for the international community to reach a formal consensus on ways of dealing with the issue. Mr Johnstone said: “We’re strongly in favour of there being adequate international mechanisms to cope.”
Danny Sriskandarajah, head of migration at the IPPR, said: “The displacement of millions of people will be one of the most dramatic ways in which climate change will affect humankind.”
Hilary Benn, the Environment Secretary, said a global agreement must be reached. “Climate change is the most serious long-term threat to development in poor countries, and if unchecked millions of people may be forced to migrate to escape the effects of drought, flooding, food shortages and rising sea levels,” he said.
Climate Change Could Force 1 Billion From Their Homes by 2050
by Nigel Morris
Ya’da, Ya’da, Ya’da !!!
All due respect intended there ‘kscitydude’, and I mean it, but frankly what are you or anybody else going to do about it. Nothing!
We have to survive today, and that means doing what we are doing without returning to the stone age.
If you like, turn off your lights and heat and air conditioning, stop driving, and don’t buy food but grow your own, we’ll see how you prosper with that. If it works for you then come back and show us how.
Depleted Uranium is an interesting material. It is very highly toxic and has enough radioactivity left to be dangerous if in a finely devided form. Since it is so dense it makes a wonderful projectile; it can also combust upon impact. It is that last tidbit that makes it interesting. That use then results in a very finely devided microspheroidal dust. While not long-lived in that form it is readily respirable and can also be ingested. That is when the toxicity becomes manifest. Thus the effects that have been seen with DU.
My ‘recycled nuclear’ proposal uses DU and a crucial ingredient to be back-mixed with weapons-grade material no make fuel. We need to realize that these materials are not nearly as inocuous as some would have you believe.
One in four of U.S. service personnel who participated in the nine-month Operation Desert Storm is now officially classified as “disabled,” according to Department of Veterans Affairs figures obtained by FedBuzz.
The percentage of Gulf War veterans granted disabled status — 26 percent — is now higher than for any modern U.S. combat experience and is two and one half times the disability rate from the 10-year-long Vietnam War, according to VA sources.
VA Public Information Officer Jim Benson told FedBuzz that more than 183,000 veterans have been granted “disability status for one or more conditions” resulting from Operation Desert Storm between August of 1990 and April of 1991.
Benson said that another 36,782 disability claims by Gulf War vets are now pending and are being evaluated. About 700,000 members of the U.S. Armed Forces took part in the nine-month military campaign that decided the outcome of the Gulf War.
The cost of the disabilities: $1 billion annually.
Nathan - the Wiki article linked to several that show dangers with finely devided Uranium Oxide. That is the likely route.
Those who say its safe have nothing to go on either. And, in this field (toxicilogy) we go with ‘guilty until proven innocent’. Thus a new pesticide (for example) is not approved until testing has shown safe and effective.
Several studies show increases in birth defects after DU dispersal in an area.
This whole thing reminds me of “Operation Ranch Hand” and the belated acknowledgement of health effects of 2,3,7,8-TCDD.
I don’t know what the ultimate truth is about DU. However, I do know that there are enough red flags that if it were a material being spread in the environment in the USA it would be banned until testing were complete. It is interesting to note that its use as trim weight in aircraft was discontinued.
I would like to see it thoroughly studied - by someone other than its purveyor.
Fifty-one years ago, Herman James, a North Carolina mountain man, was drafted by the Army… On his first day in basic training, the Army issued him a comb. That afternoon the Army barber sheared off all his hair. On his second day, the Army issued Herman a toothbrush. That afternoon the Army dentist yanked seven of his teeth. On the third day, the Army issued him a jock strap. The Army has been looking for Herman for 51 years.
******************************************
China has secretly built an underground nuclear submarine base in the South China Sea, posing a new threat to powers in the region — a development the Pentagon says it has known about for at least two years.
Satellite photos of the base obtained by FOX News show a large harbor and massive tunnels that defense experts say could shelter many nuclear subs.
The Defense Department has estimated that by 2010 China will have five operational 094-class nuclear submarines capable of carrying 12 nuclear missiles each, according to the Daily Telegraph.
According to the Defense Department, China has 57 attack submarines, but these satellite pictures suggest their 094-class nuclear submarine may already be available.
“It’s very significant to have further visual evidence of the kinds of military build-up that they’ve been engaged in for some time,” said Stephen Yates, a senior fellow at the American Foreign Policy Council.
Photos of the base were taken on November 28 by DigitalGlobe’s QuickBird satellite, and first appeared in the military journal Jane’s Intelligence Review.
The secret base, known as Sanya, is located on the southern tip of Hainan Island in the South China Sea. Defense experts say the harbor feeds into waters so deep that the submarines could launch without having to surface, making it difficult to detect them from the sky.
China Builds Secret Nuclear Submarine Base That may pose a threat to U.S. naval dominance in the region, and to the nations just hundreds of miles from Hainan’s shores.
“It really is a point of force projection out into the South China Sea, and the South China Sea is a very, very important waterway critical to energy security,” said Yates.
The Pentagon has known about the secret submarine base for more than two years. It first showed up in press reports in 2007 and was mentioned in the Defense Department’s report to Congress on China’s military power last year.
When Defense Secretary Robert Gates visited China last November, he was given a tour of the Forbidden City — but not given answers about China’s growing military budget, which increased officially by 17 percent last year, making it Asia’s fastest growing military.
Calls to the Chinese Embassy seeking comment on the revelation were not returned.
“ksfarmgrrl
Posted May 2, 2008 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
In 2005 Focus on the Family withdrew its funds from Wells Fargo.
“Focus on the Family has elected to end its banking relationship with Wells Fargo, motivated primarily by the bank’s ongoing efforts to advance the radical homosexual agenda. These efforts are in direct opposition to the underlying principles and purpose of Focus, and thus a decision of conscience had to be made, and a stand taken,” said a statement from FOF at the time.
Focus said Wells Fargo had donated more than $14 million to pro-gay organizations in the last two decades.”
5-2-08
Poll Shows Less Than 3 Percent of Americans are Gay
Just 2.9 percent of Americans older than 18 identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual, according to a groundbreaking poll released Wednesday by New York’s Hunter College. Gay-activist groups and the mainstream media often cite a 10 percent figure.
Caleb H. Price, research analyst for Focus on the Family, said the poll confirms the 10 percent figure is a myth.
“This poll roughly agrees with the University of Chicago’s landmark National Health and Social Life Survey,” he said, “which found that only 1.4 percent of women think of themselves as lesbian or bisexual and only 2.8 percent of men identified themselves as gay or bisexual.”
The poll was funded through a grant from the Human Rights Campaign Foundation, a gay-activist group.
Boxer, if that is true, then isnt it a little bit silly for the Reich Wing to make such a constant fuss over Gay Rights issues??? That little bit of the population, and they want Constitutional Amendments to do what?? Protect themselves from 2% of the population??? Good grief… just a bunch of hype and over-kill!!
Good evening Chas, hope you are well.
It is a shame that so much has to be made over gays, with all the negative energy spent and bad feelings.
I don’t feel anyone should be harassed, ridiculed, bullied, or whatever over being gay. That means ever, unless maybe they are openly flaunting it in a repulsive degrading manner which seems to happen at some of their ‘rallies’.
But I’ll be very candid with you, my faith, based on God’s word, says it’s wrong, and I believe that completely. That’s enough for me.
If I am PUSHED to accept it as fully deserving of the status of marriage between a man and a woman, I will push back. Homosexual relationships are even less stable than heterosexual ones and that is destructive to society. I don’t care what people do as long as they keep it their business and not flaunt it. Same applies to everybody.
I don’t think the “Reich Wing” as you put it went looking for trouble there, it came to them in the form of demands that traditional society was not, and remains not, ready to accept.
It spite of what some may think of me from my posting when I am railing against someone or something I don’t mean ill will towards anybody. But NO, homosexual relationships do not meet the standard God places on marriage, in HIS word or in my mind. That being said, I have friends that are gay, one quite open, and that’s just fine, that person is my friend, but respect me enough to not push me, and I do him to not push him. See?
The Florida Senate failed on Wednesday to pass an informed consent abortion mill ultrasound bill, by a vote of 20-20. Critics of the measure said there is a long list of children waiting to be adopted and pointed out that lawmakers already cut adoption funds, implying they would prefer that mothers, especially black mothers, proceed with mangling, dismembering, poisoning, or beheading their baby, rather than keeping their baby or opting for adoption.
Enforcing informed consent, especially ultrasound viewing, would drastically cut down abortions and abortion mill profits, in this state where 95,000 abortions are committed annually.
- - -
Haleigh Poutre, 14, of Massachusetts, was ruled in an irreversible vegetative state last year because of a near-fatal 2005 head injury, and was nearly removed from life support, when she started breathing on her own. (Terri Schiavo was breathing on her own and responsive when leftist quacks and judges condemned her to a brutal 13-day execution by starvation, for being unable to speak or swallow.) After rehabilitation treatment, Haleigh indicated to police in December, through words, gestures, and by spelling words and sentences, that she had been repeatedly beaten and abused by her adoptive mother and stepfather, Holli and Jason Strickland, and that Jason Strickland kicked her down a flight of stairs to cause her head injury and coma.
Jason Strickland’s shyster, Alan Black, indicated in court records that he will question Haleigh’s mental competence as a witness due to the severity of her injury.
Meanwhile, Haleigh’s sister, Samantha Poutre, has given investigators more information about what happened, and indicated Poutre’s stepfather Jason Strickland kicked Haleigh down a flight of stairs.
- - -
Dana Marie Regan, 12, of New York, died from a methadone overdose she got from a 15-year-old drug dealer and thief, who has been charged as a JUVENILE with criminally negligent homicide, criminal sale of a controlled substance and endangering the welfare of a child.
Some suppose that a rare string of solar and lunar eclipses falling on Jewish holy days that will occur in 2014-2015 will herald the Second Coming, that great and terrible Day of the Lord, the day of the trampling of the great wine press of the wrath of Almighty God.
(Isaiah 13:9-22; 24:20-23; Joel 2:10-11, 31; 3:12-16; Matthew 24:27-31; Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:20-28; Acts 2:17-21; Revelation 6:12-17; 14:14-20)
“Homosexual relationships are even less stable than heterosexual ones”
I don’t know that that is true Box. That said, whynot simply allow a legal status that carries the same status in the eyes of Caeser and Caeser’s ‘marriage.’ In fact, since marriage, like baptism, is a sacrament of the church, why not remove that entirely from Caeser’s realm? Replace the Caeser (civil) Marriage License with a Union document.
Then leane marriage as a sacrament in the realm of the Church.
Marriage, first and foremost, is a STATE Contract. What religion does with it, is up to religion. Boxer, it is with a great lack of integrity that you would demand that those who do not share your religious views, be held to those views when it comes to a STATE contract.
Remember - The STATE issues the marrige license, NOT the Church… And, the STATE decrees the divorce, NOT the Church. So has it been for many centuries.
IF your Church does not want to sanction same gender Marriage, then your Church has that right!! And Nobody can force your Church to change their beliefs. Likewise, your Church has the right to say it will not accept Gay members, or same gender married people. And nothing can be done to force your Church to do otherwise.
Leave it in the hands of the STATE, and those churches who oppose it, can do so, freely, and legally!!
Chas - that is why I would change the terminology. Semantics. I would replace the State’s (Caeser’s) ‘Marriage License’ for EVERYONE - not just gays. That way the emotionally charged religious term ‘Marriage’ would be removed entirely from the legal system.
bth,
Your suggestion makes logical sense I suppose. Not that I am implying anything else, I would just have to think about the potential societal implications.
In a very real sense a “Union document” already exists in the form of legal trusts, with power of attorney for financial and health care decisions.
Also, I would be interested in how these documents might effect things like life and health insurance premiums, etc. I might be worried about being grouped with high risk groups, same as being grouped in with skydivers, race car drivers, folks more likely to contact HIV, that would raise costs, see what I mean. If someones life style choices raise my group risk and cost more I’m not all that in favor.
When I made the comment about less stable relationships I am referring to overall statistics, not individual situations, and I admit I don’t have the figures as I haven’t spent time studying it. As I said this is not an obsession with me, I just don’t want to be pushed into acceptance of something I don’t believe in and hasn’t been accepted for the most part for recorded history. Tolerated, not accepted.
The only reason I brought up the study referenced above is because of the surprisingly low percentage sited. I had been led to believe it was higher with all the publicity it get.
Boxlock, I have seen no documentation that Same Gender relationships are less stable than Male/Female… Since the term marriage cannot be used in any studies, that makes most studies done by opponents a moot exercise to begin with…
But I have seen only documentation that shows that ALL relationships are less stable now, than, say 100 years ago… (for many, diverse reasons)
Oh but ‘bth’, please remember when Jesus said “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and unto God that which is God’s” he was talking to those that were trying to catch him in something to imprison or kill him with. Jesus knew that ‘ALL BELONGS TO GOD’, there really is NOTHING that is Caesar’s. Caesar doesn’t know that, and will enforce his will on us here, but ultimately NOT.
Like you, I have not studied the stats. However, looking at health insurance I would guess that the pregnancy rate is MUCH lower. As for HIV I’m not sure it is that much higher any more - especially in ‘unioned’ couples. I think most transmission now is IV drug use. (But not sure)
Back in 1971 I got married - TWICE in the same day. One was the Priest filling out paperwork for the government. THAT is what I would rename. The other - Mass. That must be the domain solely of the Church.
To create the legal status via trusts etc is tremendously expensive. So, simply allow it this way.
Now for another wild card. Consider two widow sisters. Might they want to ‘Union’ their legal/financial existence? Not for sex or anything - simply for the ‘joint’ legal protections. Why not?
American, There is no argument for you to disagree WITH… The STATE issues the license to marry… NOT the Church…. What you believe about God and covenant is for you and your Church to determine… Your Church does not, and SHOULD NOT be allowed to make LAW for the entire Nation!! And yes, American, there ARE Churches that sanction Same Gender MARRIAGE…. So, it is not ALL Churches that would share your view…
I also note… It is the STATE that decrees divorces… and NOT the Church!!
Chas, this is not ‘my’ subject of interest in that I don’t want to ‘harm’ anyone, gay or straight, but since you commented on the stability of relationships and my intuition leads me in a given direction I spent only seconds looking.
Here’s one; http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet6.html
“Over the past 50 years, 5 studies have compared substantial numbers of homosexuals and heterosexuals – all generated results suggesting greater social disruption by gays. In the Kinsey survey, general prison inmates (excluding those incarcerated for sexual offenses) were over 4 times more apt to have extensive homosexual experience than his control group. (11) Saghir & Robins (12) compared 146 gays with 78 heterosexuals and reported less stability (more lovers, more job-changing) and more criminality among homosexuals. Bell & Weinberg (5) contrasted 979 gays with 477 heterosexuals and found more instability (psychiatric, marital) and more criminality among gays. Cameron & Ross (13) questionnaired 2,251 randomly-obtained respondents and reported that heterosexuals evidenced more social cohesion (numbers and kinds of intimate relationships), less self-destructive behavior (smoking, drug use, suicide attempts), and less endangerment of others (via driving habits, deliberate killing).
The largest comparison of gays and straights on a wide range of topics and based on a random sample involved 4,340 adults in 5 U.S. metropolitan areas. (6) Comparing those of both sexes who claimed to be bisexual or homosexual versus those of both sexes who claimed to be exclusively heterosexual:
Homosexuality was linked to lowered health
– homosexuals were about twice as apt to report having had a sexually transmitted disease (STD); and over twice as apt to have had at least 2 STDs;
– homosexuals were about 5 times more apt to have tried to deliberately infect another with an STD;
– homosexuals were about a third more apt to report a traffic ticket or traffic accident in the past 5 years;
– homosexuals were 3 times as likely to have attempted suicide, 4 times more apt to have attempted to kill someone, and about twice as likely to have been involved in a physical fight in the past year;
– homosexuals were about 5 times more apt to have engaged in torture-related sex (sadomasochism, bondage); and
– homosexuals were about 4 times more likely to report having been raped.
Homosexuality was associated with criminality
– homosexuals were about twice as likely to have been arrested for a non-sexual crime and about 8 times more apt to have been arrested for a sexual crime;
– homosexuals were about twice as apt to have been convicted of a sexual crime and about twice as likely to have been jailed for a crime;
– homosexuals were about three times more likely to admit to having made an obscene phone call; and
– homosexuals were about 50% more apt to claim that they had recently shoplifted, cheated on their income tax, or not been caught for a crime.
Homosexuality resulted in weaker human bonds
– only about half as many homosexuals had gotten married and, if married, were much less apt to have children;
– homosexuals averaged less than a year of sexual fidelity within either their longest homosexual or heterosexual relationship (heterosexuals averaged between 5 to 10 years of fidelity); and
– if married, homosexuals were about 3 times more likely to cheat on their spouse.
These results echo the largest comparative study of straight and gay couples, which reported that the average length of time together averaged about 3 years for gay and lesbian couples vs 10 years for married heterosexuals. (14) Additionally, “cheating” was inevitable: “all [gay] couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity.”
American
Posted May 2, 2008 at 9:54 pm | Permalink
Chas,
Which is more important to you?
What God approves or what man approves?
================================================
The Pharisees already tried that one with Jesus… And what was it he said??
Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to God what belongs to God!!
Same anaswer applies here, American…
NOBODY that I know of is asking YOU or YOUR CHURCH to sanction same gender marriage!! NOBODY!!! IF they were, I would be arguing against that too!!
Conversely, YOUR CHURCH has no right to force your Church’s understanding on the entire NATION!! Especially when there are MANY who just dont buy what your church teaches…. but, you have ALL RIGHTS to believe that… And I for one, would not ever try to stop you from your beliefs!!
BlueJay Posted May 2, 2008 at 9:49 pm |
“I’ll require a personal appearance and engagement with “God” before I take seriously anything attributed to him/her/it.”
BlueJay, you WILL get what you are asking for, and always earlier than planned.
Just be ready for it.
Oh yeah, if I need homosexual stats, the place I go is to the Family Research Council. WTFE.
Kinsey’s been dead for YEARS omg most of his work was deemed totally out there a long long long time ago.
And yeah, men who are in prison are more likely to look for sex with ….OTHER MEN…gee go figure.
The other stuff, gee ya think back in the 50’s homosexuals were more likely to commmit suicide, ya think? When it was totally and completely unacceptable?
“These results echo the largest comparative study of straight and gay couples, which reported that the average length of time together averaged about 3 years for gay and lesbian couples vs 10 years for married heterosexuals. (14) Additionally, “cheating” was inevitable: “all [gay] couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity.”
“– homosexuals averaged less than a year of sexual fidelity within either their longest homosexual or heterosexual relationship (heterosexuals averaged between 5 to 10 years of fidelity); and”
The stats aren’t good American…does anybody REALLY question it? Seriously!
232 Comments
Love is the answer to every question — even the questions of the mind.
Drunvalo Melchizedek
Thank you Kansas House of Representatives in voting to uphold the veto of the proposed twin coal fired power plants near Holcomb/Garden City. Hopefully this means the power plants won’t be built. Of course, I suppose anything could happen as long as the Kansas legislature remains in Topeka.
So our Kansas air quality and underground aquifer water should be safe from this new power plant attacker for another year.
http://www.mister-info.com/?cmd=displaystory&story_id=10545&format=html
US Dept of Justice IP address blocked after ‘vandalism’ edits to Wikipedia
Excerpt:
Wikinews has learned that a United States Department of Justice (DOJ) IP Address has been blocked on Wikipedia after making edits to an article which were considered “vandalism”. In two separate instances, the IP address from the DOJ removed information from the Wikipedia article about the organization Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), regarding an attempt by the organization to secretly gain influence on the site. The IP address has been confirmed by Wikinews to be registered and used by the DOJ located in Washington, D.C……….
FAILURE OF IPCC TO PROPERLY CONSIDER SOLAR INFLUENCE
By Stephen Wilde
As I understand it the solar effect on climate has been discounted by the climate modelers because the variation in total solar irradiance between the peak and the trough of a single eleven year (approximately) solar cycle seems far too small to make any difference to global temperature.
There are a number of problems with their assumption as follows:-
The concept of total solar irradiance is purely a convenient construct. We do not know all the different mechanisms by which the sun can have an influence on global temperature either directly or indirectly. The use of the word “total” is therefore misleading. Even the concept of irradiance is vague and maybe incomplete.
The fact is that in the real observed world over centuries cooler weather has been seen to occur at a similar time to longer less active solar cycles and warmer weather similarly occurs with shorter more active solar cycles. If total solar irradiance does not seem to account for it that is no reason to ignore the phenomenon yet the modelers and the IPCC do so. I assume that the reason they ignore it is because, being unaware of the cause of the observed phenomenon, they have no numbers representing it to feed into the models. Their model output should therefore be qualified by an admission that at least one substantial observable real world phenomenon has been wholly omitted. Unfortunately for them that would render the models useless for policy making purposes.
The IPCC and the modelers do recently seem to have come to accept the influence of the EL NINO/ LA NINA cycle as a warming/cooling process. However they currently regard it as a purely redistributive mechanism rather than one which could actually be part of a driving mechanism. They would be in error if variations in solar energy input to the Earth operated a switch between the predominance over time of either EL NINO or LA NINA.
The variation between peaks and troughs in the solar cycle may be very small but if continued over long periods the effects could soon accumulate. If, say, the difference is only 1% then if a reduction or increase in incoming solar energy continues for many years, perhaps over several solar cycles, then it is the cumulative effect that should be considered and that could well be substantial over a number of decades.
There could also be other unknown mechanisms driven by solar changes that exaggerate the effect of small variations in total solar irradiance. A current possibility being investigated is a suggested link between cosmic ray flux and cloudiness. The flux varies depending on the energy from the sun and may drive cloudiness changes.
It is possible that over the millennia the earth has become a very accurate “thermometer” in terms of its reaction to solar heat or other forms of solar energy input. The entirety of the global heat budget may be very sensitive to solar changes. Over millions of years the earth has arrived at a temperature balanced between incoming solar energy and outgoing radiation of energy to space. The balance could well be much finer than we have so far realized. There are certainly no available figures that describe the sensitivity of the global temperature to variations in solar input and without knowing that level of sensitivity as a first step I fail to see how we can know anything useful about the sensitivity of the Earth to other influences
Not nearly as much fun without cosmos calling me names.
The vote was even worse for old King coal than before.
The air fouling, water gulping, coal plants for Colorado will NOT be built!
All hail Governor Sebelius!
HLP,
Never thought I’d could possible miss ‘cosmos’ and his one subject jihad over AGW, along with his disrespect for anyone holding a different idea.
But I do, kind of like a painful infected abscess that finally goes away.
And the air fouling, water gulping ethanol p-lants that are being built are better? Or those oversized windmeills that take up a lot of space, and don’t put out much power?
Good morning Boxlock!
Maybe he’ll return when this ‘temporary cooling spell’ is over in 20-30 years.
Memo to Eagle staff - the spam problem seems to have gotten even worse since log-in took place. Note all the casino etc entries on old threads.
HLP,
Good Morning to you sir.
Ya know, I would have liked to be more friendly with cosmos, but he was always so very caustic and I guess I don’t have the maturity or thick skin to put up with it. Hope he’s doing well and not to cold.
Does anyone but me wonder why this isnt the front page headline for the WE online editon?
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KS_XGR_COAL_FIGHT_KSOL-?SITE=KSSAL&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
I wonder who the votes were that neufeld lost?
Expect the court papers to fly. Time is on the side of the opponents, I think. The longer the delay, the more the costs rise. Soon, Sunflower wont be able to justify this plant.
Either that, or they’ll pass on all the delay costs to rate payers.
Like me.
…and I doubt you’ll find any posts praising ethanol from folks who oppose the Holcomb plants.
Except for sebelius and parkinson and joe harkins of course!
I found it curious that cosmos didn’t want to register. It was like he had something to hide.
His old typepad login stated that he/she was Sammy Wilson. Whether that is true or not, who knows.
Anybody go to see Robert Nofacts last night at the Flint Hills Policy Institute (more accurately called the Koch Industries Shill-for-Hire) fundraiser?
I was going to go as a “billionaire for Bush,” but I got off from work too late to make it . . .
A victory for the Earth and for science.
And a victory toast to absent friends.
Looks like Chevron’s deep in the petro dollars too.
I noticed their greatest profit came from exploration, that high dollar prohibitive venture!
Solar output HAS been looked at as to its influence on climate. In the LONG term (BILLIONS of years) it is vary important. It is estimated that over the life of the earth solar output has increased by about 20% which is very significant. Note that I said BILLIONS, not millions. This works out to about 0.004% per million years (20%/5000 million).
So, when looking at VERY OLD climates and CO2 balances we must AND DO consider variations in solar output. In fact, this even lends credence to the Gaia hypothesis in that the earth’s atmosphere has evolved over the billiosn of years to accomodate these changes.
An atmosphere such as we have today (several hundred ppm CO2) would have resulted in an ice-bound earth a billion years ago. On the other hand, an atmosphere like the earth had back then (thousand ppm CO2) will lead to a hothouse. The study of truly ancient climates would be impossible without considering these changes in ’solar constant’.
However, over the past few tens of millions of years (the ‘ice ages’) is better explained by orbital fluctuatiosn, not solar output. It is this period that we use more when examining today’s climate. With this we can use simplifying assumptions that the continents are where they are and the sun is where it is. We do measure changes in both; however over the very short time frame of millenea these changes are miniscule.
It has been noted that in the recent years that if warming were driven by increased solar output the stratosphere would warm as much or more than the troposphere. The opposite is true; the stratosphere has cooled. Perhaps Mr. Wilde would like to try to explain that observation. I doubt that he can. However, we can and have done so.
Good morning farm lady!
I’m personally for more coal fired plants, don’t give a damn about CO2.
However, I’ve always thought that building the plants in Kansas was just another Colorado attempt to steal our water.
The two plants would take a lot of water from the aquifer and send into the atmosphere. That in my opinion was the real problem.
Colorado has sites suitable for coal fired plants, closer to the supply of coal. It’s the water stupid!
“better explained by orbital fluctuatiosn”
Is that anything like flotsam or discombobulated?
Really Ben, this is akin to say that putting a ball on a string then rotating it near a fire will get different results than if the fire intensity is turned up or moved closer to the ball.
The heat and energy source hasn’t changed, but position has changed.
I guess it all depends on what your definition of “is” is.
“Time is on the side of the opponents, I think. The longer the delay, the more the costs rise. Soon, Sunflower wont be able to justify this plant.
Either that, or they’ll pass on all the delay costs to rate payers.
Like me.”
ksfarmgrrl,
Whether for or against the coal plants what you said is exactly what is going to happen. Wind can’t meet all our energy production needs or come close in the future, and natural gas is more expensive and needed to heat our homes.
Delaying this will simply cause costs to rise, and that must be paid for by the consumers, with a potential loss of new business and industry that won’t tolerate those high costs for energy.
This is a victory for politically correct hysteria and will cost us all in the future. Of course then those celebrating today can blame the energy companies for the higher costs too because they didn’t convince us when they should have.
“However, I’ve always thought that building the plants in Kansas was just another Colorado attempt to steal our water.”
ditto
“This is a victory for politically correct hysteria”
Uh, no, this is a victory for sane stewardship of our natural resources. The is actually a victory for western Kansas, although steve miller and wkreda and neufeld, et al. will never admit it or stop trying to convince western kansas that “we was robbed”.
We were “robbed” only to the extent that we may NOT be the environmental dumping ground for the rest of the state and the nation.
You want these plants so bad? Build them in YOUR neck of the woods.
HLP,
I strongly agree with you about the water, that’s going to be the even more valuable resource.
Why can’t the steam be captured, condensed, and used over and over in a closed system? Or captured and returned to the aquifer? That’s not technically difficult I wouldn’t think.
“Really Ben, this is akin to say that putting a ball on a string then rotating it near a fire will get different results than if the fire intensity is turned up or moved closer to the ball.
The heat and energy source hasn’t changed, but position has changed.”
Not really regular. Milankovitch cycles ARE difficult to understand but they have been sorted out. The interesting thing is that although there is no change in solar input into the earth’s system the change in ‘when and where’ has been able to tip us into and out of glaciatial cycles. That is where the ice-albedo and carbon feedback loops become so important.
Paleoclimatology is a fascinating field of study. Perhaps a few courses in it might be useful.
It can be boxlock, but Sunflower didnt design their proposed plants that way. You would have to ask them why.
Which is why I cant believe they tout “clean” and “new technology” all the while ignoring the water issue.
And no one has asked how much water their magic algae experiment would use. You all who want these plants? Build them where you live.
Use YOUR water.
“That’s not technically difficult I wouldn’t think.”
Uh … yes it is ….
ksfarmgrrl,
Maybe you should wander off the farm once in awhile and learn more.
Elementary Equation:
Fact, energy needed wind too unreliable & backup generation needed + natural gas too needed + hydro electric impossible here + solar impractical and costly = coal cheapest, most practical and plentiful.
You may know chickens but not much about this.
“The interesting thing is that although there is no change in solar input into the earth’s system the change in ‘when and where’ has been able to tip us into and out of glaciatial cycles.”
—————————————–
No change eh?
Okay, calling up the sun to cancel solar flares.
Perhaps I’ll give mother nature a buzz and let her know to cancel the four seasons as well, as position of the earth doesn’t matter.
ksfarmgrrl,
I do care about the area. We have land just south of the Okla/Texas border there in the panhandle, only a few miles from southwest Kansas.
” Why can’t the steam be captured, condensed, and used over and over in a closed system? Or captured and returned to the aquifer? That’s not technically difficult I wouldn’t think”
Ben would know more about this.
It’s really A LOT more difficult than it sounds.
This has to do with the exchange of energy.
A coal fired plant produces tremendous volumes of superheated steam. Now to condense that back down to water, you’d first have to have a closed system.
Ok. Now you’ve got huge volumes of superheated steam with no place to go. You either have to expend energy cooling it (not efficient)
Or have one helluva a big radiator.
BlueJay
Posted May 2, 2008 at 11:05 am | Permalink
” Why can’t the steam be captured, condensed, and used over and over in a closed system? Or captured and returned to the aquifer? That’s not technically difficult I wouldn’t think”
————————-
Yeah, terribly difficult technology. Solved in the past by a guy named Fulton and utilized in steam locomotives.
Or perhaps the steam generated heating systems in Germany.
Yep, just too difficult.
“ksfarmgrrl,
I do care about the area. We have land just south of the Okla/Texas border there in the panhandle, only a few miles from southwest Kansas.”
IIRC, that’s where some of the power from holcomb is going. That explains a lot.
Nice stab at making me out to be a hick. Seems like you always go for the easy punch. Whatever. I guess when you cant attack the substance of the post, you can always attack the poster.
Typical. The last refuge of the intellectually challenged.
boxlock = cheap shot artist
I guess if you cant address the substance of a post, you can always take a cheap shot at the poster.
Typical. The last refuge of the intellectually challenged.
Here’s a little salt for your wounds boxlock.
We won.
Get over it.
“Perhaps I’ll give mother nature a buzz and let her know to cancel the four seasons as well, as position of the earth doesn’t matter”
Be my guest. Just don’t lie and claim that I said it.
By the way - the earth actually receives a bit more energy from the sun during our winter than during our summer.
Sorry for the somewhat duplicate post. Word Press is acting weird today. Like every day.
I’m thinking it’s boxlock who needs the cheese to go with his whine…
Sore loser much?
BlueJay,
For ‘pete’s sake’, haven’t you had physics.
Energy must me ADDED to form steam, and is given off in re-condensing.
That how ‘highly energy efficient furnaces’ work The have secondary condensers to capture the heat! before it escapes the flue.
They could use the atmosphere or the ground as the heat sink (radiator), possible even recapture that heat, that was put there by the coal burning.
Hmmm, where to begin?
These coal fired plants do use a closed system for the generation of steam. Coal heats the boilers, making steam. The steam is used to drive steam turbines connected to electrical generators. The used steam is dumped into condensors. The condensate is pumped back to the boilers and the cycle starts over.
Now then, this system needs a heat sink. Water to cool the condensors that condense the steam. This water is cooled in cooling towers. This causes an incredible loss of water do to evaperation. This water is made up from the aquifer.
If the coal fired plants are built on a river, the river can be the heat sink-no cooling towers just a warmer river down stream. If the coal fired plant is near the ocean, no problem.
Electrical plants need several things to be economical to build and run. Transmission lines capable of removing the power. Supply of fuel that is available logistically. And, a heat sink.
Steam locamotives did not condense the steam, they dumped it. That’s why they had to fill up with water at the water towers more often than they needed to load coal.
ksfarmgrrl,
Oh….now don’t get your ‘feathers ruffled’. Ops, sorry, couldn’t help myself.
I didn’t mean anything terribly offensive towards you, in fact I wouldn’t tease if I didn’t, from what I know here, like and respect your posts, even those I disagree with.
Nothing was meant to offend….just tease.
Don’t trust your kids to a dittohead!
Been meaning to add this here.
I was listening to Rush Limbaugh the other day.
It’s my little bit of gathering er ,”intelligence” on the enemy.
I should go look for a transcript of this somewhere. Maybe later I will.
Well frog mouth gets a call. Usual con drooling, “Rush I love you!” bleat bleat…
Then you hear a crash. And the older female caller says “Oh honey you took a header!”
This is followed by the sounds of a small child WAILING in pain.
The caller continues her slavish devotional to Limbaugh…
And the child KEEPS screaming.
And the caller keeps bleating.
Finally, frog mouth says, “Uh, is everything ok there? Can we get you some help?”
The caller then says, “Uh no, it’s just my grandson. He uh uh he stood up under a chair,”
Now I think it’s pretty obvious what happened here. Grandma watched her grandson “take a header”
probably falling OFF of a chair or maybe the top of the refrigerator. But this was not significant enough to interrupt her worship of the frog mouth!
HLP,
Thanks!
Figured an old Submariner would know about steam.
After all, doesn’t all that bulky nuclear material generate steam to make the Hamsters spin the propeller?
HLP,
Is there a practical reason (probably money) that the cooling tower water that normally escapes could not somehow be captured by the use of a secondary heat exchanger so the water would not be lost to the atmosphere?
Regular,
And submarines have an enormous heat exchanger…the ocean.
Hank, I admit my lack of knowledge in science, so this is an honest question.
Why cant they run cooling pipes underground and use the cool earth as the heat sink? Does the ground not work as a heat sink? Is there something other than a river or ocean they could use?
30,000 acre feet is a LOT of water to use each year. Even the two towers will use about 20,000 acre feet per year.
We just dont have that much water to lose. And when the aquifer is depleted, who will give up their water first? Steve Irsik and his big irrigation buddies? The feedlots? The packing plants? The people who drink it?
There is a finite supply of water available. I know all about first in time, first in right. I wonder how “senior” these sunflower water rights are.
What are YOU ALL gonna do when they run out of water and holcomb once again becomes a “stranded asset”.
When Sunflower comes to the legislature for a bail out, I guess we can expect all you conservatives to support it? Or will you bitch like usual and let Sunflower’s rate payers foot the WHOLE bill?
Really. What will you all propose to do in holcomb when the water runs out?
Hey Boxlock,
No. That would take another heat sink!
Cooling towers are great heat sinks. They circulate the water from the cooling towers to the condensors. The water lost to evaporation is made up from a supply of water.
In western Kansas that supply is the aquifer. At Three Mile Island they used the river.
Legislature update:
BUDGET
The House passed their version of the omnibus budget yesterday afternoon after adding funding for early childhood programs that had been taken from the Childrens’ Trust Fund, expansion of the pharmacy school at K.U., funding for the Early Detection Works program for breast & cervical cancer, a 1% COLA for state retirees, and other items. The House’s final budget squeaked by on a 64-60 vote. It contains $29.3 million in general fund spending in addition to the $6.4 billion spending bill approved April 5. It would leave an ending balance of $82.5 million in the general fund for 2009. Spending for fiscal year 2009, which begins July 1, is estimated to exceed revenue by more than $450 million.
The Senate added funding for many of the same programs, but later eliminated much of the money when it voted 23-13 to slash all additional spending from the state general fund — about $34.5 million — from their original omnibus proposal. The omnibus bill — that chamber’s version of the final state budget — squeaked out of the Senate early this morning on a vote of 21-18. Some senators who originally voted “no” on the bill changed their vote.
Now a six-member negotiating team of House and Senate appropriations members will work out the spending differences between the two budget bills, while the rest of the legislators await their negotiated agreement . . . and consider other conference reports. Unlike the House budget committee, the Senate Ways and Means Committee’s original Senate catch-all proposal increased spending from the state general fund by $16.8 million.
COAL PLANTS
Gov. Sebelius won another round in the coal plant battle yesterday in the House. The House failed to override her veto of a bill that would allow two coal-fired power plants to be built near Holcomb. The final vote was 80 to 45, 4 votes short of the required 84. There are clearly a couple of no votes that could become yes votes but that is still 2 short. The House was in a lock-down (”call of the House”) for over 2 hours from about 7:00 p.m. until nearly 9:30 p.m. During that period, a couple of legislators hid out while the proponents tried to change votes by twisting arms and promising goodies.
There may be a motion to reconsider that vote on the veto today.
Such a motion must be made during the 24 hours after the original vote and must be made by someone who voted on the “prevailing side,” or voted no. House Speaker Melvin Neufeld, R-Ingalls, who represents the district next door to Holcomb, vowed to fight on. This time in the session, legislators are vulnerable because there may be a piece of legislation that is important to their district that is held hostage unless they change their vote. Assistant Minority Leader Jim Ward, D-Wichita, said he was not surprised that the vote had gone against the power plants, but had not expected the four-vote margin. The last time the House voted on the power plants, proponents had 83 votes. However, that was not a vote on an override but rather a vote on the underlying bill, SB 148. This sends a message. One of the newest additions to the coal plant legislation was a 2 cents per meter fee for every energy customer in Kansas. And the fee (tax) is the same for the widow in her little house and the big energy consumer business customer!
Opponents of the power plants picked up two unexpected votes from Johnson County Reps. Judy Morrison, R-Shawnee, and Benjamin Hodge, R-Overland Park. Not solid opponents. The coalition in opposition is made up of Sedgwick County Democrats, plus Democrats and moderate Republicans from the Topeka-Kansas City corridor. Moderate Republican Dale Swenson of Wichita was one wobbler who came down against the power plant. He said he was skeptical that it needs to be as large as proposed, since proponents first offered to reduce it by 200 megawatts of capacity, then put it back to its original size, coupled with an offer to sell 200 megawatts to Kansas City, Kan.
Supporters of the plant vowed to keep trying until the end of the session. “We have other options and we’ll be working on those and start again tomorrow,” Neufeld said. Asked if Thursday’s vote was the last on the issue, he replied, “Not hardly.” Opponents called the vote historic, saying it may go down as a turning point when Kansas became a leader in the movement away from old energy sources and toward sustainable, environmentally friendly technologies and energy efficiency. “True innovation and true ingenuity only comes when we make difficult decisions,” said Rep. Joshua Svaty, D-Ellsworth. The Sierra Club hailed the vote, and Sebelius, in a statement, called on lawmakers to come together and “work with me on a new comprehensive energy policy, one that truly serves the needs of entire state, east and west.”
The now six-month debate thrust Kansas into the forefront of debates about reliance on fossil fuels, climate change and renewable energy.
Sunflower had hoped to build two 700-megawatt coal-burning plants at its Holcomb power station. One sticking point is that only about 15% of the electricity would have gone to Kansas consumers. The newest proposal increased that to 30% if the BPU in Kansas City wanted to purchase power from Sunflower. KCK legislators said that they had no idea how much it would cost BPU customers to get power to KCK from Holcomb and how the power would be transmitted there. To attract votes, power plant supporters also inserted provisions that would have required Sunflower to invest more in wind energy, encourage solar power and give incentives for energy efficiency.
Neufeld met with Senate President Steve Morris, another coal plant supporter, immediately after the vote. Neufeld wouldn’t say what his next step is. He has repeatedly claimed that he has the votes to override a veto. Lawmakers had hoped to return home on Saturday, but the coal fight, if it continues, could delay adjournment. Rep. Pat Colloton, R-Leawood, who was seen as a swing vote, voted against the override. Colloton said she was leaning toward voting for the coal plants, but constituents changed her mind. “I’m amazed at how well educated many Kansans are on issues about the environment and energy,”
she said.
Several lawmakers on both sides said they can’t recall a fight that involved so much pressure and gamesmanship. Throughout the session, lawmakers complained about threats to derail bills of interest to particular lawmakers, or offers to support bills, in exchange for voting a certain way on coal. Leaders on both sides denied any arm-twisting. Rep. Tom Burroughs, D-Kansas City, who voted against the project, said supporters of the coal plant threatened to have the son of a Wyandotte County lawmaker fired from a union job site if the lawmaker didn’t support the coal project. Burroughs wouldn’t name the lawmaker or the source of the threat. “I’ve never seen an issue in my 12 years here divide this chamber like this issue has,” an angry Burroughs said on the House floor..
Hey Farm girl!
The earth makes a great heat sink, but the amount of heat disapation required for a coal powered plant is too much.
It’s just not feasable to use the earth as a heat sink for such a load.
“ksfarmgrrl” asks –
“Why cant they run cooling pipes underground and use the cool earth as the heat sink?”
As it turns out, I looked into this option a few years ago when we had to replace the HVAC system in my Mom’s house.
They had an early-era heat pump that needed to be replaced. I’d read about geothermal heat pump technology and asked for a bid.
There’s a lot of up-front cost with digging up the ground that will work for a heat pump. Back then, the computer projections (which assured a big reduction in kilowatts used) still couldn’t come up with an (at that time) economical way for the geo-based heat pump to pay off.
Kilowatt rates have since surpassed the projections at that time and we’ve saved a lot of money in the dead of winter and the worst of summer had we gon geo.
But the thought of digging up how many acres it would take to install an underground cooling system probably scares off such technology.
Hardly any corporation these days makes decisions based on long-term consequences; it’s all about the next quarter. No outfit is gonna create a geo-based water cooling system if they can get by with sucking up the Olagah Aquifer on the (short-term) cheap.
Does the ground not work as a heat sink? Is there something other than a river or ocean they could use?
Yikes amway. Just think, if sebelius had cared this much about the hate amendment. Or water. Good for her, but I gotta say, if she had cared one TENTH this much about the hate amendment, it would have never made it to the ballot, much less passed.
Did you all read Carolyn Marie Fugit’s ltte today?
She’s a waaaaaaaayyyyy better person than I!
And from another blog:
Shareholders Reject Bid To Strip Gay Protections At Wells Fargo
Advertisements [?]
A motion by a Wells Fargo shareholder to remove protections for LGBT workers from the company’s non-discrimination policy was defeated this week at its annual meeting.
Wells Fargo & Co. is the fifth largest U.S. bank by assets.
The motion called for the company to “to formulate an equal employment policy …that does not make reference to any matters related to sexual interests, activities or orientation.”
It said that homosexuality has been “condemned by the major traditions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam for a thousand years or more”.
The motion was crafted by Pro Vita Advisors, a group that helps promote conservative values.
The motion said that “While the legal institution of marriage between a man and a woman should be protected, the sexual interests of, inclinations and activities of all employees should be a private matter, not a corporate concern.”
The proposal was easily defeated.
Nearly 90 percent of the Fortune 500 companies have non-discrimination policies.
Conservative groups have attacked Wells Fargo for the past three years over its “pro-gay policies”.
In 2005 Focus on the Family withdrew its funds from Wells Fargo.
“Focus on the Family has elected to end its banking relationship with Wells Fargo, motivated primarily by the bank’s ongoing efforts to advance the radical homosexual agenda. These efforts are in direct opposition to the underlying principles and purpose of Focus, and thus a decision of conscience had to be made, and a stand taken,” said a statement from FOF at the time.
Focus said Wells Fargo had donated more than $14 million to pro-gay organizations in the last two decades.
Similar shareholder challenges to non-discrimination policies that include gays have been fought and lost at Ford Motor Company.
http://www.365gay.com/Newscon08/04/043008wf.htm
I’m still waiting to hear from all those businesses that were supposed to come to kansas after the hate amendment passed. You know, kay o’connor said that to me and the press after she stomped on us in the senate.
Still waiting kay.
And how is HER political career going? hehehehhehe
Same as bonbon’s.
For the same reasons.
Looks like, according to Wells Fargo and Ford, kkk oconnor and bonbon huy and, well, more than seventy percent of kansans are WAY out of step with corporate America.
Doesnt that violate some sacred conservative oath?
Maybe just a kansas oath, since the democrats actually had a worse record on the hate amendment than the repukes.
And the silence from governor leadership was deafening.
And we wonder, being that far out of the mainstream of American business, why Kansas cant get new businesses to come here or old businesses to stay here.
And just in case you think I give the DNC a pass, check this out. Wonder why some of were hypersensitive to the mcclurkin disaster?
http://citizenchris.typepad.com/citizenchris/2008/04/dncs-talk-to-th.html
McCain wants to boot Russia from the G-8:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/35556.html
I guess wars all over the globe aren’t enough for him; he wants to bring back the Cold War too.
geez, the spammers are working overtime today. Between them and the trackbacks, there’s no room for much posting!
Published on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 by The Independent/UK
Climate Change Could Force 1 Billion From Their Homes by 2050
by Nigel Morris
As many as one billion people could lose their homes by 2050 because of the devastating impact of global warming, scientists and political leaders will be warned today.
They will hear that the steady rise in temperatures across the planet could trigger mass migration on unprecedented levels.
Hundreds of millions could be forced to go on the move because of water shortages and crop failures in most of Africa, as well as in central and southern Asia and South America, the conference in London will be told. There could also be an effect on levels of starvation and on food prices as agriculture struggles to cope with growing demand in increasingly arid conditions.
Rising sea levels could also cause havoc, with coastal communities in southern Asia, the Far East, the south Pacific islands and the Caribbean seeing their homes submerged.
North and west Africans could head towards Europe, while the southern border of the United States could come under renewed pressure from Central America.
The conference will hear a warning from the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) that the developed world should start preparing for a huge movement of people caused by climate change.
The event, which is being organised by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR), will also be addressed by a Kenyan farmer and a United Nations worker based in Sudan. They will give first-hand accounts of previously fertile land that has already become parched in recent years as the desert spreads.
Craig Johnstone, the UNHCR deputy high commissioner, said yesterday that humanity faced a “global-scale emergency” whose effects would accumulate over the next four decades. He said it was impossible to forecast with confidence the numbers of people who would lose their homes through climate change. But he pointed to assessments of between 250 million and one billion people losing their homes by 2050. He said: “This will be a global-scale emergency, but … it will take place gradually and over a long period of time.”
Mr Johnstone rejected the suggestion that the industrialised West should shoulder the burden because it was to blame for much of climate change. But he said: “It’s the obligation of the people who have the means to be helpful to help. They have an obligation to humanity to help.”
He said the UNHCR already assisted in natural disasters such as earthquakes and the Asian tsunami of 2004 and added: “Perhaps even more challenging and more inevitable are the consequences of global changes.”
Currently the status of refugees - defined as people escaping personal persecution by the state - is controlled by the Geneva Convention of 1951. The agreement, however, would not cover people who become homeless, or even stateless, because of changes to global weather patterns.
Pressure is therefore growing for the international community to reach a formal consensus on ways of dealing with the issue. Mr Johnstone said: “We’re strongly in favour of there being adequate international mechanisms to cope.”
Danny Sriskandarajah, head of migration at the IPPR, said: “The displacement of millions of people will be one of the most dramatic ways in which climate change will affect humankind.”
Hilary Benn, the Environment Secretary, said a global agreement must be reached. “Climate change is the most serious long-term threat to development in poor countries, and if unchecked millions of people may be forced to migrate to escape the effects of drought, flooding, food shortages and rising sea levels,” he said.
Climate Change Could Force 1 Billion From Their Homes by 2050
by Nigel Morris
Ya’da, Ya’da, Ya’da !!!
All due respect intended there ‘kscitydude’, and I mean it, but frankly what are you or anybody else going to do about it. Nothing!
We have to survive today, and that means doing what we are doing without returning to the stone age.
If you like, turn off your lights and heat and air conditioning, stop driving, and don’t buy food but grow your own, we’ll see how you prosper with that. If it works for you then come back and show us how.
Happy Friday,
Warning the following video is graphic and disturbing view at your own risk….
http://www.bushflash.com/pl_lo.html
annie_moose,
Do you actually believe that tripe?
If you don’t understand, and I suspect you…ah, might not, that is false or worthless rubbish.
box use the google it will set u free
Depleted Uranium is an interesting material. It is very highly toxic and has enough radioactivity left to be dangerous if in a finely devided form. Since it is so dense it makes a wonderful projectile; it can also combust upon impact. It is that last tidbit that makes it interesting. That use then results in a very finely devided microspheroidal dust. While not long-lived in that form it is readily respirable and can also be ingested. That is when the toxicity becomes manifest. Thus the effects that have been seen with DU.
My ‘recycled nuclear’ proposal uses DU and a crucial ingredient to be back-mixed with weapons-grade material no make fuel. We need to realize that these materials are not nearly as inocuous as some would have you believe.
The DU munitions crap again?
How many times must you be proven wrong on this subject before you will take off your tinfoil hat?
About the only good thing in that video was the soundtrack.
Nathan - there are a lot of IH types who share concerns about DU.
BTH,
Sharing concerns and having proof are two different things.
DU munitions have been scrutinized for some time now.
no proof here
One in four of U.S. service personnel who participated in the nine-month Operation Desert Storm is now officially classified as “disabled,” according to Department of Veterans Affairs figures obtained by FedBuzz.
The percentage of Gulf War veterans granted disabled status — 26 percent — is now higher than for any modern U.S. combat experience and is two and one half times the disability rate from the 10-year-long Vietnam War, according to VA sources.
VA Public Information Officer Jim Benson told FedBuzz that more than 183,000 veterans have been granted “disability status for one or more conditions” resulting from Operation Desert Storm between August of 1990 and April of 1991.
Benson said that another 36,782 disability claims by Gulf War vets are now pending and are being evaluated. About 700,000 members of the U.S. Armed Forces took part in the nine-month military campaign that decided the outcome of the Gulf War.
The cost of the disabilities: $1 billion annually.
Annie,
What on Earth does that have to do with DU munitions?
Where are you getting those numbers from?
Some general information on DU:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium
Fairly long - neutral in tone IMO. Lots of links to other articles.
“DU munitions have been scrutinized for some time now.”
You are correct. Sponsors of its use say it is safe. Others say otherwise. The jury is still out.
http://www.gulfweb.org/doc_show.cfm?ID=748
I googled vet disabilty rates
Ben,
Yeah, and the “others” who say otherwise have nothing to go on.
Most of the time it is some fear ploy like the one Annie posted.
Annie,
Any source? Not just a link to someone elses website…
Nathan - the Wiki article linked to several that show dangers with finely devided Uranium Oxide. That is the likely route.
Those who say its safe have nothing to go on either. And, in this field (toxicilogy) we go with ‘guilty until proven innocent’. Thus a new pesticide (for example) is not approved until testing has shown safe and effective.
Several studies show increases in birth defects after DU dispersal in an area.
This whole thing reminds me of “Operation Ranch Hand” and the belated acknowledgement of health effects of 2,3,7,8-TCDD.
What would you like to know? I have been looking at this for a couple of days. Mostly under the heading of depleted uranium.
Nathan,
Ben can help you more than I since he is an actual scientist
Nate,
When someone has an agenda….they don’t need no stickin facts.
Vary true Box. That is why so many drug and chemical companies try to get the testing process by-passed.
box ignorance is bliss ehhh,
rock on wingnut
“Life is ten percent what you make it; and ninety percent how you take it!” [Amateur Philosopher]
“box ignorance is bliss ehhh,”
Ah annie, I’m learning;
I’ve already learned that no matter how much I care, or hard I try to be friendly, around here some people are just BUTTS.
I don’t know what the ultimate truth is about DU. However, I do know that there are enough red flags that if it were a material being spread in the environment in the USA it would be banned until testing were complete. It is interesting to note that its use as trim weight in aircraft was discontinued.
I would like to see it thoroughly studied - by someone other than its purveyor.
Fifty-one years ago, Herman James, a North Carolina mountain man, was drafted by the Army… On his first day in basic training, the Army issued him a comb. That afternoon the Army barber sheared off all his hair. On his second day, the Army issued Herman a toothbrush. That afternoon the Army dentist yanked seven of his teeth. On the third day, the Army issued him a jock strap. The Army has been looking for Herman for 51 years.
******************************************
Just saw Iron Man. Great movie, special effects,,story line. Bet there’s a sequel.
China Builds Secret Nuclear Submarine Base in South China Sea
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353961,00.html
Friday, May 02, 2008
China has secretly built an underground nuclear submarine base in the South China Sea, posing a new threat to powers in the region — a development the Pentagon says it has known about for at least two years.
Satellite photos of the base obtained by FOX News show a large harbor and massive tunnels that defense experts say could shelter many nuclear subs.
The Defense Department has estimated that by 2010 China will have five operational 094-class nuclear submarines capable of carrying 12 nuclear missiles each, according to the Daily Telegraph.
According to the Defense Department, China has 57 attack submarines, but these satellite pictures suggest their 094-class nuclear submarine may already be available.
“It’s very significant to have further visual evidence of the kinds of military build-up that they’ve been engaged in for some time,” said Stephen Yates, a senior fellow at the American Foreign Policy Council.
Photos of the base were taken on November 28 by DigitalGlobe’s QuickBird satellite, and first appeared in the military journal Jane’s Intelligence Review.
The secret base, known as Sanya, is located on the southern tip of Hainan Island in the South China Sea. Defense experts say the harbor feeds into waters so deep that the submarines could launch without having to surface, making it difficult to detect them from the sky.
China Builds Secret Nuclear Submarine Base That may pose a threat to U.S. naval dominance in the region, and to the nations just hundreds of miles from Hainan’s shores.
“It really is a point of force projection out into the South China Sea, and the South China Sea is a very, very important waterway critical to energy security,” said Yates.
The Pentagon has known about the secret submarine base for more than two years. It first showed up in press reports in 2007 and was mentioned in the Defense Department’s report to Congress on China’s military power last year.
When Defense Secretary Robert Gates visited China last November, he was given a tour of the Forbidden City — but not given answers about China’s growing military budget, which increased officially by 17 percent last year, making it Asia’s fastest growing military.
Calls to the Chinese Embassy seeking comment on the revelation were not returned.
“ksfarmgrrl
Posted May 2, 2008 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
In 2005 Focus on the Family withdrew its funds from Wells Fargo.
“Focus on the Family has elected to end its banking relationship with Wells Fargo, motivated primarily by the bank’s ongoing efforts to advance the radical homosexual agenda. These efforts are in direct opposition to the underlying principles and purpose of Focus, and thus a decision of conscience had to be made, and a stand taken,” said a statement from FOF at the time.
Focus said Wells Fargo had donated more than $14 million to pro-gay organizations in the last two decades.”
Good job Focus on the Family!
Yeah my brother saw Iron Man last night JM.
He was a big Iron Man fan when he was a kid.
I told him he should take his nephew to see the movie as long as Dad can come along too.
5-2-08
Poll Shows Less Than 3 Percent of Americans are Gay
Just 2.9 percent of Americans older than 18 identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual, according to a groundbreaking poll released Wednesday by New York’s Hunter College. Gay-activist groups and the mainstream media often cite a 10 percent figure.
Caleb H. Price, research analyst for Focus on the Family, said the poll confirms the 10 percent figure is a myth.
“This poll roughly agrees with the University of Chicago’s landmark National Health and Social Life Survey,” he said, “which found that only 1.4 percent of women think of themselves as lesbian or bisexual and only 2.8 percent of men identified themselves as gay or bisexual.”
The poll was funded through a grant from the Human Rights Campaign Foundation, a gay-activist group.
Chuckles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmDOTYD_yHw
Boxer, if that is true, then isnt it a little bit silly for the Reich Wing to make such a constant fuss over Gay Rights issues??? That little bit of the population, and they want Constitutional Amendments to do what?? Protect themselves from 2% of the population??? Good grief… just a bunch of hype and over-kill!!
LOL Benny Hill was one of the great ones!!
Good evening Chas, hope you are well.
It is a shame that so much has to be made over gays, with all the negative energy spent and bad feelings.
I don’t feel anyone should be harassed, ridiculed, bullied, or whatever over being gay. That means ever, unless maybe they are openly flaunting it in a repulsive degrading manner which seems to happen at some of their ‘rallies’.
But I’ll be very candid with you, my faith, based on God’s word, says it’s wrong, and I believe that completely. That’s enough for me.
If I am PUSHED to accept it as fully deserving of the status of marriage between a man and a woman, I will push back. Homosexual relationships are even less stable than heterosexual ones and that is destructive to society. I don’t care what people do as long as they keep it their business and not flaunt it. Same applies to everybody.
I don’t think the “Reich Wing” as you put it went looking for trouble there, it came to them in the form of demands that traditional society was not, and remains not, ready to accept.
It spite of what some may think of me from my posting when I am railing against someone or something I don’t mean ill will towards anybody. But NO, homosexual relationships do not meet the standard God places on marriage, in HIS word or in my mind. That being said, I have friends that are gay, one quite open, and that’s just fine, that person is my friend, but respect me enough to not push me, and I do him to not push him. See?
The Florida Senate failed on Wednesday to pass an informed consent abortion mill ultrasound bill, by a vote of 20-20. Critics of the measure said there is a long list of children waiting to be adopted and pointed out that lawmakers already cut adoption funds, implying they would prefer that mothers, especially black mothers, proceed with mangling, dismembering, poisoning, or beheading their baby, rather than keeping their baby or opting for adoption.
Enforcing informed consent, especially ultrasound viewing, would drastically cut down abortions and abortion mill profits, in this state where 95,000 abortions are committed annually.
- - -
Haleigh Poutre, 14, of Massachusetts, was ruled in an irreversible vegetative state last year because of a near-fatal 2005 head injury, and was nearly removed from life support, when she started breathing on her own. (Terri Schiavo was breathing on her own and responsive when leftist quacks and judges condemned her to a brutal 13-day execution by starvation, for being unable to speak or swallow.) After rehabilitation treatment, Haleigh indicated to police in December, through words, gestures, and by spelling words and sentences, that she had been repeatedly beaten and abused by her adoptive mother and stepfather, Holli and Jason Strickland, and that Jason Strickland kicked her down a flight of stairs to cause her head injury and coma.
Jason Strickland’s shyster, Alan Black, indicated in court records that he will question Haleigh’s mental competence as a witness due to the severity of her injury.
Meanwhile, Haleigh’s sister, Samantha Poutre, has given investigators more information about what happened, and indicated Poutre’s stepfather Jason Strickland kicked Haleigh down a flight of stairs.
- - -
Dana Marie Regan, 12, of New York, died from a methadone overdose she got from a 15-year-old drug dealer and thief, who has been charged as a JUVENILE with criminally negligent homicide, criminal sale of a controlled substance and endangering the welfare of a child.
Some suppose that a rare string of solar and lunar eclipses falling on Jewish holy days that will occur in 2014-2015 will herald the Second Coming, that great and terrible Day of the Lord, the day of the trampling of the great wine press of the wrath of Almighty God.
(Isaiah 13:9-22; 24:20-23; Joel 2:10-11, 31; 3:12-16; Matthew 24:27-31; Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:20-28; Acts 2:17-21; Revelation 6:12-17; 14:14-20)
“I often regret that I have not spoken; never that I have been silent.” Publilius Syrus
“Homosexual relationships are even less stable than heterosexual ones”
I don’t know that that is true Box. That said, whynot simply allow a legal status that carries the same status in the eyes of Caeser and Caeser’s ‘marriage.’ In fact, since marriage, like baptism, is a sacrament of the church, why not remove that entirely from Caeser’s realm? Replace the Caeser (civil) Marriage License with a Union document.
Then leane marriage as a sacrament in the realm of the Church.
No man or even “some” know of that time and Day of the Lord.
bth,
What does Ceasar have to do with it?
“Render unto Caeser that which is Caeser’s and unto God that which is God’s”
My point - the civil set of rights constitutes Caeser’s ‘Marriage’ or ‘Union.’ I would separate that from God’s (theChurch’s) sacrament of Marriage.
Marriage, first and foremost, is a STATE Contract. What religion does with it, is up to religion. Boxer, it is with a great lack of integrity that you would demand that those who do not share your religious views, be held to those views when it comes to a STATE contract.
Remember - The STATE issues the marrige license, NOT the Church… And, the STATE decrees the divorce, NOT the Church. So has it been for many centuries.
IF your Church does not want to sanction same gender Marriage, then your Church has that right!! And Nobody can force your Church to change their beliefs. Likewise, your Church has the right to say it will not accept Gay members, or same gender married people. And nothing can be done to force your Church to do otherwise.
Leave it in the hands of the STATE, and those churches who oppose it, can do so, freely, and legally!!
I watched “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” recently.
It sure paints a sad picture of the liberal fascism intelligencia in our universities, press and throughout out country today.
Let’s have freedom of speech and academia!
Chas - that is why I would change the terminology. Semantics. I would replace the State’s (Caeser’s) ‘Marriage License’ for EVERYONE - not just gays. That way the emotionally charged religious term ‘Marriage’ would be removed entirely from the legal system.
bth,
Your suggestion makes logical sense I suppose. Not that I am implying anything else, I would just have to think about the potential societal implications.
In a very real sense a “Union document” already exists in the form of legal trusts, with power of attorney for financial and health care decisions.
Also, I would be interested in how these documents might effect things like life and health insurance premiums, etc. I might be worried about being grouped with high risk groups, same as being grouped in with skydivers, race car drivers, folks more likely to contact HIV, that would raise costs, see what I mean. If someones life style choices raise my group risk and cost more I’m not all that in favor.
When I made the comment about less stable relationships I am referring to overall statistics, not individual situations, and I admit I don’t have the figures as I haven’t spent time studying it. As I said this is not an obsession with me, I just don’t want to be pushed into acceptance of something I don’t believe in and hasn’t been accepted for the most part for recorded history. Tolerated, not accepted.
The only reason I brought up the study referenced above is because of the surprisingly low percentage sited. I had been led to believe it was higher with all the publicity it get.
BTH — That would work fine. Especially since, legally speaking, Marriage IS ALREADY a matter of a Civil Union.
Boxlock, I have seen no documentation that Same Gender relationships are less stable than Male/Female… Since the term marriage cannot be used in any studies, that makes most studies done by opponents a moot exercise to begin with…
But I have seen only documentation that shows that ALL relationships are less stable now, than, say 100 years ago… (for many, diverse reasons)
Oh but ‘bth’, please remember when Jesus said “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and unto God that which is God’s” he was talking to those that were trying to catch him in something to imprison or kill him with. Jesus knew that ‘ALL BELONGS TO GOD’, there really is NOTHING that is Caesar’s. Caesar doesn’t know that, and will enforce his will on us here, but ultimately NOT.
Like you, I have not studied the stats. However, looking at health insurance I would guess that the pregnancy rate is MUCH lower.
As for HIV I’m not sure it is that much higher any more - especially in ‘unioned’ couples. I think most transmission now is IV drug use. (But not sure)
Back in 1971 I got married - TWICE in the same day. One was the Priest filling out paperwork for the government. THAT is what I would rename. The other - Mass. That must be the domain solely of the Church.
To create the legal status via trusts etc is tremendously expensive. So, simply allow it this way.
Now for another wild card. Consider two widow sisters. Might they want to ‘Union’ their legal/financial existence? Not for sex or anything - simply for the ‘joint’ legal protections. Why not?
Chas,
I do not agree.
Today, now, God sanctions and covenants with man for marriage.
The church, as the vessel of God, should uphold that covenant.
Husbands and wifes.
The church that does other than that is an apostate.
The state license is only for the eyes of men.
Which do your fear more?
Man or God?
jimmymac posted May 2, 2008 at 10:00 am
I found it curious that cosmos didn’t want to register. It was like he had something to hide.
Nope… as I explained earlier, I was (and still am) tired of wasting my time on liars, people who can’t understand the basics of science, etc.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/04/blog-registration-coming/#comment-327931
Now ‘cosmos_originally’, because someone already registered ‘cosmos’ at the WE.
Breaking News:
A man has been discovered in a Motel Room, smothered in what appears to be Rice Crispies…
Police detectives believe they are dealing with the work of a “Cereal Killer”
Sorry, I couldnt resist!!
Boxlock - no disagreement on “everything is God’s”. I am only concerned with the state issues.
I’ll require a personal appearance and engagement with “God” before I take seriously anything attributed to him/her/it.
It’s all a lot of supersticious nonsense.
Snap, crackle, pop!
American, There is no argument for you to disagree WITH… The STATE issues the license to marry… NOT the Church…. What you believe about God and covenant is for you and your Church to determine… Your Church does not, and SHOULD NOT be allowed to make LAW for the entire Nation!! And yes, American, there ARE Churches that sanction Same Gender MARRIAGE…. So, it is not ALL Churches that would share your view…
I also note… It is the STATE that decrees divorces… and NOT the Church!!
BlueJay,
Do you not believe in God?
Welcome back cosmos!
Chas - agreed. However, to make things easier, I would change the terminology.
Chas, this is not ‘my’ subject of interest in that I don’t want to ‘harm’ anyone, gay or straight, but since you commented on the stability of relationships and my intuition leads me in a given direction I spent only seconds looking.
Here’s one;
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet6.html
“Over the past 50 years, 5 studies have compared substantial numbers of homosexuals and heterosexuals – all generated results suggesting greater social disruption by gays. In the Kinsey survey, general prison inmates (excluding those incarcerated for sexual offenses) were over 4 times more apt to have extensive homosexual experience than his control group. (11) Saghir & Robins (12) compared 146 gays with 78 heterosexuals and reported less stability (more lovers, more job-changing) and more criminality among homosexuals. Bell & Weinberg (5) contrasted 979 gays with 477 heterosexuals and found more instability (psychiatric, marital) and more criminality among gays. Cameron & Ross (13) questionnaired 2,251 randomly-obtained respondents and reported that heterosexuals evidenced more social cohesion (numbers and kinds of intimate relationships), less self-destructive behavior (smoking, drug use, suicide attempts), and less endangerment of others (via driving habits, deliberate killing).
The largest comparison of gays and straights on a wide range of topics and based on a random sample involved 4,340 adults in 5 U.S. metropolitan areas. (6) Comparing those of both sexes who claimed to be bisexual or homosexual versus those of both sexes who claimed to be exclusively heterosexual:
Homosexuality was linked to lowered health
– homosexuals were about twice as apt to report having had a sexually transmitted disease (STD); and over twice as apt to have had at least 2 STDs;
– homosexuals were about 5 times more apt to have tried to deliberately infect another with an STD;
– homosexuals were about a third more apt to report a traffic ticket or traffic accident in the past 5 years;
– homosexuals were 3 times as likely to have attempted suicide, 4 times more apt to have attempted to kill someone, and about twice as likely to have been involved in a physical fight in the past year;
– homosexuals were about 5 times more apt to have engaged in torture-related sex (sadomasochism, bondage); and
– homosexuals were about 4 times more likely to report having been raped.
Homosexuality was associated with criminality
– homosexuals were about twice as likely to have been arrested for a non-sexual crime and about 8 times more apt to have been arrested for a sexual crime;
– homosexuals were about twice as apt to have been convicted of a sexual crime and about twice as likely to have been jailed for a crime;
– homosexuals were about three times more likely to admit to having made an obscene phone call; and
– homosexuals were about 50% more apt to claim that they had recently shoplifted, cheated on their income tax, or not been caught for a crime.
Homosexuality resulted in weaker human bonds
– only about half as many homosexuals had gotten married and, if married, were much less apt to have children;
– homosexuals averaged less than a year of sexual fidelity within either their longest homosexual or heterosexual relationship (heterosexuals averaged between 5 to 10 years of fidelity); and
– if married, homosexuals were about 3 times more likely to cheat on their spouse.
These results echo the largest comparative study of straight and gay couples, which reported that the average length of time together averaged about 3 years for gay and lesbian couples vs 10 years for married heterosexuals. (14) Additionally, “cheating” was inevitable: “all [gay] couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity.”
Chas,
Which is more important to you?
What God approves or what man approves?
I do not.
American posts >>>>
The church, as the vessel of God, should uphold that covenant.
Husbands and wifes.
The church that does other than that is an apostate.
===========================================
The Church that does other than that is only apostate IF YOUR Church has determined that… Thank GOD that is NOT the law of our land, American!!
What you posted above is TRUE as far as it is determined by YOUR CHURCH… But, you see, YOUR CHURCH does not make the LAWS for the Nation… Get it??
Sure hetorosexual marraiges have suffered and failed at too high of a rate.
Can someone please tell me the average number of years a homesexual “marraige” lasts?
American
Posted May 2, 2008 at 9:54 pm | Permalink
Chas,
Which is more important to you?
What God approves or what man approves?
================================================
The Pharisees already tried that one with Jesus… And what was it he said??
Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to God what belongs to God!!
Same anaswer applies here, American…
NOBODY that I know of is asking YOU or YOUR CHURCH to sanction same gender marriage!! NOBODY!!! IF they were, I would be arguing against that too!!
Conversely, YOUR CHURCH has no right to force your Church’s understanding on the entire NATION!! Especially when there are MANY who just dont buy what your church teaches…. but, you have ALL RIGHTS to believe that… And I for one, would not ever try to stop you from your beliefs!!
BlueJay Posted May 2, 2008 at 9:49 pm |
“I’ll require a personal appearance and engagement with “God” before I take seriously anything attributed to him/her/it.”
BlueJay, you WILL get what you are asking for, and always earlier than planned.
Just be ready for it.
American, there is currently no such thing as a “gay marriage” except for in only two states… So your question is bogus…
However, I know several gay couples in KS, and elsewhere, who have been together for more than 25 years!! I have yet to be married for that long!!
Chas,
What are the “laws” of this nation based on?
Judeo/Christian Law that was provided by God.
To get a better answer to your question, I would advise you ask KFG, or TomWitte, or Doug, or some body who might know the answer better than I do…
BlueJay,
Why don’t you believe in God?
Oh yeah, if I need homosexual stats, the place I go is to the Family Research Council. WTFE.
Kinsey’s been dead for YEARS omg most of his work was deemed totally out there a long long long time ago.
And yeah, men who are in prison are more likely to look for sex with ….OTHER MEN…gee go figure.
The other stuff, gee ya think back in the 50’s homosexuals were more likely to commmit suicide, ya think? When it was totally and completely unacceptable?
WRONG AGAIN AMERICAN!!! You fail History 101
I don’t believe in the bogey man either.
American asks; “Can someone please tell me the average number of years a homesexual “marraige” lasts?”
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/05/open-thread-52/#comment-340903
“These results echo the largest comparative study of straight and gay couples, which reported that the average length of time together averaged about 3 years for gay and lesbian couples vs 10 years for married heterosexuals. (14) Additionally, “cheating” was inevitable: “all [gay] couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity.”
“– homosexuals averaged less than a year of sexual fidelity within either their longest homosexual or heterosexual relationship (heterosexuals averaged between 5 to 10 years of fidelity); and”
The stats aren’t good American…does anybody REALLY question it? Seriously!
Thank GOD the Church and State are not the same entity in the United States of America!!
Chas,
Isn’t it interesting that when you strike a nerve, the liberal fascist intelligencia all come out of the woodwork.
How is this country’s law not based upon Judeo/Christian Law (that was provided by God)?