MSNBC pundit Tim Russert put it plainly last night: “We now know who the Democratic nominee is going to be.” ABC’s George Stephanopoulos said today on “Good Morning America”: “This nomination fight is over.” There’s no way Hillary Clinton can now win the nomination following any kind of traditional path. Clinton waged a tough, relentless campaign, but Barack Obama’s firewall – North Carolina – held firm, and he came close to winning in Indiana.
Another bad sign: Clinton loaned her campaign $6.4 million in the past month. She’s running on fumes.
Clinton herself said she needed a “game changer” in North Carolina and Indiana. She didn’t get it. The race might go on for a few weeks, but it’s clearer than ever that it’s over. It will be Obama vs. John McCain in the fall.
202 Comments
Oh YOU wish!
S U P E R D E L E G A T E S!!!!!!!
Now, if Hillary backs out and gives full support to Obama, we might get it together enough to beat McBush.
No No No!
Keep on fighting Dems! Bash each other! I wanta see Hillary and Obama both with black eyes all summer long!
Operation Chaos Continues….
Let’s see, Obama is all that is left…
Last time duh Dems ran a candidate that depended on young people to get elected was when McGovern ran.
How’d that work out?
Let the battles begin!
I have to agree – it is time for the end-game. Look for both Clinton and Obama to run more against McBush than against each other this week. I do think, however, that Hillary will stay in through June 3.
Over?
It’s over for Obama.
He lost Indiana. My Obama supporting brother owes me 20 buks on that. That’s on it’s way to re-energize Senator Clinton.
Add that to Ohio,Pennsylyvania,Michigan,Florida and all the other places Barack lost and Senator Clinton won.
Senator Clinton is gonna win West Virginia too.
Even if Obama does ultimately get the nomination, there are many who just cannot vote for that Republican schmoozer.
Oh and Obama supporters?
I’ve given him every chance.
I so wanted him last night to go on the attack against the right.
And still he drones on about working together with them. Smiling through our broken teeth and with our last dying breath saying “Let’s be friends?”
No. And so I for one have made my decision.
If Obama is the nominee I will vote for Nader.
Truly, I don’t understand what is wrong with so many of you Obama supporters. I guess you are comfortable and so, ok with cutting off your friends to work with your enemies.
Each of us gets one vote. Some votes have a better chance of counting “for” and others a better chance of counting “against.”
Democratic Party primaries are scheduled through June 3rd and that is when a nominee should be selected. Until then anyone who wants to complain has a forum for that right here on the blog. Maybe someone will want to tout the positives of their favorite candidate and they have the same forum.
Just like those votes for or against, some posts have a better chance of changing someone’s opinion.
For me the differences between McCain and either of the candidates who may be the Democratic Party nominee are what is important. I won’t take a chance that my vote might contribute to electing McCain!
Well Jay, many Obama supporters like him in the same way that they liked Ross Perot. But I agree, he should have went harder against the GOP last night.
Hillary’s argument (and I think it’s a good one) is Michigan and Florida.
IF they would have counted, she MIGHT be ahead.
Go Hillary!
“Michigan and Florida”
What FLORIDA again!?!
Hillary is going to have to steal this election one way or another.
Either by garnering Michigan and Florida, or buying the Super-Delegates.
Here they come to save the day!
Super-Delegates are on the way!
ohmigod, I thought Brit Hume and Bill Kristol and two other Fox knuckleheads were going to cry last night, I mean, actually shed tears. They were speechless and obviously depressed. What’s Fox going to do with Obama in the White House? Piss and moan for the next eight years? Their ratings and ad revenues will plummet.
Speaking of a bad day for Republicans, Sam Brownback is publicly defending his bigot friends, the Rev. John Hagee.
See today’s Huffington Post:
In response to a question from Brian Williams . . .
BROWNBACK: I don’t think so. I’ve known Reverend Hagee, I’ve worked with him, I’ve talked with him since the comments that he had made. He regrets them. He’s said that. He said, this is the context in which that was said. I said this about Catholics. I also said the same thing about Protestants in his own church. He was just pointing to a time in history. I don’t think you’re going to see near that from Reverend Hagee that you’ve seen from Reverend Wright. I myself was shocked about some of the things that Reverend Wright expounded upon at the National Press Club.
I sure hope the recent convert to Catholicism and regular at Christ the King Catholic Church in Topeka (on Wanamaker Road) does an editorial board with the Eagle soon. Please ask him to clarify his support for the Rev. Hagee.
So long Bill Clinton sad times
Go long Hillary Clinton bad times
We are rid of you at last
Howdy gay times
Cloudy gray times
You are now a thing of the past
Happy days are here again
The skies above are clear again
So let’s sing a song of cheer again
Happy days are here again
Altogether shout it now
There’s no one
Who can doubt it now
So let’s tell the world about it now
Happy days are here again
Your cares and troubles are gone
There’ll be no more from now on
From now on …
Happy days are here again
The skies above are clear again
So, Let’s sing a song of cheer again
Happy times
Happy nights
Happy days
Are here again!
“Michigan and Florida”
I recall seeing a headline where Obama’s campaign manager was talking about giving the Clinton camp a supermajority of the delegates in both states. That’s cocky.
But negotiations continue.
“What’s Fox going to do with Obama in the White House?”
6 months ago I would have agreed with you.
You people had the White House. You had it! That’s past tense.
You people have blown it.
What, Michigan and Florida don’t count for Democrats?
How can they cheat people out of the right to vote?
It’s Florida 2000 all over again!
Truly, I don’t understand what is wrong with so many of you Obama supporters. I guess you are comfortable and so, ok with cutting off your friends to work with your enemies.
Jay, I understand your concern about Obama’s willingness to talk to the “other side,” but why do you repeatedly say it’s “cutting off your friends to work with your enemies”? It’s a good line, but you’ve never it backed it up with facts.
Is it just the McClurkin incident, or more? Specifics, please. No more talk about talk.
Rage – my proposal for MI and FL:
MI: Simply seat as per the results. Clinton gets about 56% as I recall; Obama 28% and the rest open.
FL: A bit different since Obama’s name was not on the ballot. Give Clinton her % (again about 56% or so) and give Obama the rest.
It would make little difference in the total spreads – in fact would help Obama. A sports analogy I heard: If you are up by 10 with 2 minutes left and you trade baskets – you getting 2-pointers and the other getting 3-pointers you still win. If Obama got 150 votes and Clinton got 200 votes; although the spread would narrow a bit it would put him just about at the ‘magic number’
#
MaxGrobnik
Posted May 7, 2008 at 10:51 am | Permalink
No No No!
Keep on fighting Dems! Bash each other! I wanta see Hillary and Obama both with black eyes all summer long!
Operation Chaos Continues….
============================================
. . . and the neocon rushette fueled box keeps getting smaller and smaller.
At this point, Ben, I rather doubt the Obama camp would object.
#
MaxGrobnik
Posted May 7, 2008 at 10:51 am | Permalink
No No No!
Keep on fighting Dems! Bash each other! I wanta see Hillary and Obama both with black eyes all summer long!
Operation Chaos Continues….
===============================================
. . . and the rushette fueled neocon box keeps getting smaller and smaller.
bth, I think you have them flipped. In FL it was 56 to about 33 (or 28 whatever) it was MI that Obama wasn’t on the ticket.
I am as sure as I can be, that either Obama or Clinton can beat McCain like he’s a cheap drum. Let’s hear the likes of AmWay tell us about how great their candidate is.
What, deafening silence? Who’d thought that?
“If Obama is the nominee I will vote for Nader. – JR
John McCain thanks you, sir.
It’s over. Sorry. Not gonna happen.
We’ve known that for weeks, except for the die-hard Hillary worshipers. The handwriting has been on the wall, etc. But Hillary is about power; she doesn’t care about her party, or her country. She cares about gaining what it’s clearthe believes she deserves: the pesidency.
And as I’ve said before, the superdelegates would be fools, for the future of their party, to hand the nomination to Hillary (though I hope they do). If black voters, crucial to the Dem coalition, perceive that the nomination was taken from one of their own by the party insiders, they will abandon the party in droves – a party that has largely done little for them but use them and take them for granted in any case.
Go ahead, Dems. Nominate Hillary. I hope you do.
I for one hope she stays in to the bitter end. Brokered convention, here we come!!
I stand corrected VET. Same thing though. It gives a way to get toeward and end game.
If Dems lose this election, they’ll have only themselves to blame. Republicans handed over this election and still, there’s a pretty good chance Dems are going to lose.
BlueJay
Posted May 7, 2008 at 11:00 am
“If Obama is the nominee I will vote for Nader.”
If you have any Liberal or Progressive friends after a statement like that, I’ll be amazed. Democrats like you are a true asset to the other party.
I think some dems are seeing what it was about the Clintons that the conservatives disliked so much. That sense of entitlement they presume to have. Who cares about the good of the party when Hillary’s nomination is at stake?
BTW – The party cannot afford to seat MI and FL if they ever hope to regain control of their nomination process. If they seat those two states with the results as voted, they might as well tell every state “do what you want; we’re impotent.”
And as bth notes, it probably doesn’t matter to the outcome anyway.
You thought the race to the front was bad before? We’ll be having primaries before Christmas!
If you have any Liberal or Progressive friends after a statement like that, I’ll be amazed. Democrats like you are a true asset to the other party.
He lives in Kansas. Look at the polls. He can vote for Mickey Mouse if he wants.
Rage
Posted May 7, 2008 at 11:52 am | Permalink
If you have any Liberal or Progressive friends after a statement like that, I’ll be amazed. Democrats like you are a true asset to the other party.
He lives in Kansas. Look at the polls. He can vote for Mickey Mouse if he wants.
=================================================
And he did vote for Mickey Mouse.
Rage, are you following me? At first I just thought you’d mistaken yourself to be CapnAmerica’s mother.
I know someone who knows you. Is it true that you are/were a card-carrying member of the ACLU?
I totally agree that Florida and Michigan should not be counted. The rules were agreed to, then broken. Why have rules if they mean nothing? Yes, the primary dates were set by the legislatures, not the voters. But the voters had six months to get them changed, to force their legislators feet to the fire. Those voters either paid no attention or were cocky in thinking they didn’t need to participate in the democratic process. Democracy should be worth fighting for (in better ways than with guns!). Voting is a right we are each responsible for protecting.
I’m beginning to think Floridians don’t deserve the right to vote but I’m willing to be proven wrong if they act like it is something they can take seriously, something they accept as a responsibility. Michigan needs to take to heart their mistake and learn from it. I give them more credit than Florida ’cause I think they can learn from their mistakes.
Your probably right BTH. She MIGHT get a popular vote lead (100,000 or so) given Florida, Michigan and Puerto Rico. But that is best case, with an * and McGovern changing spoils her electability argument.
GMC – while I tend to agree with you I think they have to come up with some sort of accomodation. Looking at the delegate numbers now with my scenario:
Obama has 1815 – add 150 and get 1965. 60 shy of the magic number.
Clinton has 1672 – add 200 and get 1872. 153 shy.
Obama then wins – with the help of MI and FL.
“bth, I think you have them flipped.”
Hey why let facts and the vote of the people get in the way – seat the delegates however YOU think best.
Ben, If Florida and Michigan count the total delegates needed is higher.
If the outcome isn’t changed why reward rule breaking?
Rage, are you following me? At first I just thought you’d mistaken yourself to be CapnAmerica’s mother.
Perhaps not.
I know someone who knows you. Is it true that you are/were a card-carrying member of the ACLU?
Heh, you could say that. What do they say about me?
I think Hillary should press on. This country has a history of “it ain;t over till it’s over”. She wants to spend more of her money, why not let her? The Democratic party (Blue Jay and his kind notwithstanding), will rally around whomever the nominee is. A Democrat will likely be President. In this case, A black male junior senator will make history, not the woman first. So what. So the junior senator male beats the world’s smartest womam out our destiny. Let him do it completely, at the end of the struggle. Carry on Hillary!
If the outcome isn’t changed why reward rule breaking?
If the campaigns agree, no harm, no foul, since it’s ulimatately about them. Of course, it’s possible Mike Gravel could file a protest!
I wonder how many “chickens will come home to roost” before November?
I wonder if the jilted Minister, the Reverend Wright, will reveal deep and dark secrets about Osama Obama?
How many “present votes” Osama Obama deliver before November?
Will Saturday Night Live dare do a remake of “Buckwheat” with Eddie Murphy as Osama Obama?
Will Kansas get full representation from Osama Obama since he regards his ‘white half’ as trailer trash and his ‘black half’ as progressive instrumentalism?
Will Osama Obama appease the Gay Crowd by selecting the Mayor of San Francisco as his Vice Presidential running mate?
Was the smoking ban in Wichita a hidden agenda by the Osama Obama campaign so he wouldn’t be tempted by cigarette smoke wafting through the air while he ate dinner at a Kansas restaurant?
Will Osama Obama pick a ‘kid friendly’ mascot to accompany him on the campaign trail, like Barney or maybe some tele-tubbies?
How many sushi and wine campaign fund raiser parties can Osama Obama attend before he gets mercury and alcohol intoxication?
How many lily-white Democrats will declare their “blackness” if Osama Obama becomes President.
How much money will Genealogical researchers make to find out whether Democratic Party members have Black Ancestry or erase the fact that their ancestors were former ’slave owners?”
Will Senator Kennedy call Osama Obama “President Bro’?”
“Let’s hear the likes of AmWay tell us about how great their candidate is.”
Me? I smoke Obama. I smoke him for his refreshingly smooth change of taste.
The other liberal candidate Juan McClame, is going to be getting a message from at least one disgruntled X-republican.
Why have rules? Let’s start the nominating process for the 2012 campaign today. I think I can get my newspaper canceled, will call the dish company, choose radio stations carefully and only listen at certain times… I can’t live with campaigning going on non stop unless I quit paying attention. My head really will explode.
I can’t live with campaigning going on non stop unless I quit paying attention. My head really will explode.
I thought that was now .
(head explodes)
Thank you for you in-depth and inciteful (spelling intentional) commentary irregular.
Set to the tune of “The Night they Drove Dixie Down”
John McCain’s the name
I rode with Robert E. Lee
Had a stay at the Hanoi Hilton
Lost half my brain
Please tell me if you see!
La la la la laaa.
bth
Posted May 7, 2008 at 12:39 pm | Permalink
Thank you for you in-depth and inciteful (spelling intentional) commentary irregular.
———————-
Still suffering from singed eyebrows from yesterday, eh Ben? :)
no, not at all. Just amused at your idiotic ranting.
linda – I think that some way must be found to enfranchise the voters of those two states. No matter what it will be messy – but something must be worked out. Thus my proposed compromise – especially now after last night’s results place Obama within striking distance – somewhat making it a moot point.
Regular: I just buried the hatchet with you an hour ago. Why do you want to do that? Number 3 (present votes) is kinda cute. I got a smirk out of that one. Number 9 (sushi bar) was even cuter. But the rest of them just make you look like a paranoid stupid ass. Is this fun for you?
No comment, not my party and Hillary is not my candidate. Out of respect for you JR I will not be pointing out the new assoiation HIllary has made.
I do know this, as a Republican I am not feeling as much support from the extreme right as she does.
Inciteful or just the Rush talking points?
LLTVET
Posted May 7, 2008 at 1:15 pm | Permalink
Regular: I just buried the hatchet with you an hour ago. Why do you want to do that? Number 3 (present votes) is kinda cute. I got a smirk out of that one. Number 9 (sushi bar) was even cuter. But the rest of them just make you look like a paranoid stupid ass. Is this fun for you?
———————–
Don’t like it then don’t read it?
Political satire and parody is fun. Sorry if you or others are some what anal about it.
I stand corrected Regular: the smoking ban one was lame, but it didn’t make you look like a stupid ass. My mistake.
*Munch*
*Munch*
*Munch*
*Munch*
Max, want me to pass the popcorn?
Regular: Political satire is fun. I.E number 3, and number 9. Racist Bigotry is not.
LLTVET
Posted May 7, 2008 at 1:29 pm | Permalink
Regular: Political satire is fun. I.E number 3, and number 9. Racist Bigotry is not.
——————-
Then sue Saturday Nite Live for getting into my head.
Or you can take your racial bigotry accusations and Osama Obama “white guilt” sympathies to the crying room and boo hoo over the griveous harm caused to your overly sensitive psyche.
Either way, stop your whining, it’s unbecoming.
Comical, to watch the election-stealing Repuke concern trolls–particularly Nazi and fleettwood– wringing their hankies over the “disenfranchisement” of Democratics voters in Michigan and Florida, while endorsing Rush-the-fascist and his masturbatory fantasy–oh, sorry, “Operation Chaos.”
Dear Wingnut-Limbot-Fascist suck ups: disenfranchisement entails the BREAKING of agreed upon rules, rather than the enforcement of same.
Will be interesting to see the DNC’s ultimate disposition of the MI and FL voters. One proposal I’ve seen floated is, in fact, to award those delegates to Hillary Clinton to help her exit the race in a dignified and befitting manner. I suspect some horse trading is going on at the moment, which is fine. While I think GMC70 is correct that it has to be done in a way that preserves the perogative of the DNC’s Rules Committee, I suspect that he won’t get his fond, urgent wish for a brokered convention.
And as others have noted, the irony is that HAD MI and FL not done what they did, their primaries would in fact have had precisely the effect on the campaign that would befit such significant Democratic states. But of course, that was never the intent of the Repubican-dominated Florida Legislature; they wanted to ratf*ck the Democratic nominating process, and they have accomplished that, at least in part.
CF2K Posted May 7, 2008 at 1:36 pm
But of course, that was never the intent of the Repubican-dominated Florida Legislature; they wanted to ratf*ck the Democratic nominating process, and they have accomplished that, at least in part.
tee hee
Sure Nathan, with plenty of butter!
CF2K Posted May 7, 2008 at 1:36 pm
But of course, that was never the intent of the Repubican-dominated Florida Legislature; they wanted to ratf*ck the Democratic nominating process, and they have accomplished that, at least in part.
===============================================
There was One Democrat in the Florida legislature that voted against moving the primary date up.
All the rest of the Demorats voted FOR IT!!!!!!
Speaking of popcorn and butter, have you seen the new digital projection at the Warren Theaters on the East side?
I went to watch Iron Man and was amazed at how nice it was.
CF – I don’t think the Limbotomized Repukes will get their wish. A way will be found to seat the delegations; probably along the lines discussed above. I noticed last night that both of the fine democratic candidates were talking unity last night; I think we will see them both turning their sites on McBush this week. This will give Clinton a way out and allow her to return to the Senate as a leader in the Party.
I think there are enough of us who remember 1968 and 1980 (and 1976 for the republic Party). Clinton knows that a scorched-earth exit will render her persona non grata in the Democratic Party.
So it is fun for you regular. Enjoy..
MaxGrobnik
Posted May 7, 2008 at 1:48 pm | Permalink
CF2K Posted May 7, 2008 at 1:36 pm
But of course, that was never the intent of the Repubican-dominated Florida Legislature; they wanted to ratf*ck the Democratic nominating process, and they have accomplished that, at least in part.
===============================================
There was One Democrat in the Florida legislature that voted against moving the primary date up.
All the rest of the Demorats voted FOR IT!!!!!!
====================================
Max,
Duh Dems were “fer” it before they were “agin” it.
(chortles)
“I don’t think the Limbotomized Repukes will get their wish.”
Did you read that on democratunderground or dailykos?
you think she is still pushing for VP Ben?
Mr. Obama, Death is here and would like to give you a kiss.
“Former Sen. George McGovern, an early supporter of Hillary Rodham Clinton, urged her to drop out of the Democratic presidential race and endorsed her rival, Barack Obama.”
Regular, it’s OK for Eddie Murphy to play Gumby, but no one else can.
I’M Gumby, damn it!
“Heh, you could say that. What do they say about me?”
They say you could use a bath and a haircut.
Sorry. you asked.
WOW! Both Max and Fleetwood on the same thread! That’s enough spew to bring down the entire World Wide Web ! Run! Hide!
Uh, CF, the Florida Dems marched willingly over that cliff. Exactly ONE democrat voted against the proposal.
Sorry. Try a new rant.
VET – no. I don’t think she has been either. It would be a bad choice IMO.
Obama needs to pick a governor from the west or the plains to balance the ticket. The thing is that for all the heat of this campaign Obama and clinton are quite similar.
I think Hillary will be more important as a senator and maybe NY governor.
CF – GMC is correct. the Dems in the FL legislature were part and parcel of this fiasco.
Well Ben,
When they finally drag the Hildebeast back to NY, kicking and screaming, she’ll still only be the junior senator from NY. She won’t be a ‘leader’ in the Democrat party.
Then the democrats will be stuck with the junior senator from Illinois as their candidate. Maybe only one of a dozen democrats that McCain has a chance of beating!
Right now we don’t know how many of the democrats are voting for the Hildebeast because they are racists or sexist. It is a factor. Obamaman hasn’t won the white vote in months. He’s toast with the blue collar dem base.
It’ll be fun, as bad a shot as the dems are, I think they’ve really shot themselves in the foot this time.
GM don’t wake CF up – he lives in a dream world where he is in control and facts are his to determine.
Hank – as McLame’s senility shows itself we will see his numbers fall. Then when he chooses someone like Sam Brokeback of the Huckster they will fall more. Add to that Hagee’s Catholic-bashing and both his and Hagee’s desire to bring on Armageddon and he will drop like a stone. Right down to Shrub territory.
Team Clinton has now started the covert operation to discredit Obama:
“This is what Harold Ickes, a longtime advisory to both Bill and Hillary Clinton, told Mark Halperin of Time’s The Page tonight:
“We don’t know enough about Senator Obama yet. We don’t need an October Surprise. And (the chance of) an October Surprise with Hillary is remote.”
It is starting to get interesting.
Clinton plans behind closed door meeting to steal election:
“The campaign had originally planned no public schedule for the Senator; instead, she was meeting with superdelegates, both committed and uncommitted, at an undisclosed location in Washington” (AP)
Ickes sez oops.
“Did I vote in favor? I didn’t mean it”!
“Ickes was a member of the Democratic National Committee who voted in favor of stripping Florida and Michigan of their convention delegates for moving their primary dates earlier than allowed by DNC rules. He has since changed his support of these sanctions, however, calling on the DNC to reconsider its penalties.”
With Hillary’s near defeat, the good news is more young impressionable American women will be applying for the White House Internship Program:
intern_application@whitehouse.gov
The bad news is Bill is going to have an open date book for the next four years.
Well Ben, you could be right.
Poor ol’ McCain doesn’t have a lot working for him but he’s white and he isn’t Hillary. Knowing today’s democrats that might be enough.
You could be right Hank. McCain was a lucky find for the GOP. He had my vote until Rush and Hagee had to ruin him.
Hey VET – McBush and the CUFI crowd will have our troops invading every Muslim nation on the globe!
Those of us who know how to add having been saying this for quite a while now.
Barack Obama won the nomination on Super Tuesday. That’s when he pulled so far ahead that Hillary’s catching up with him was virtually impossible.
Michigan and Florida also don’t matter. You could give their votes (under any reasonable split) to Hillary, and Obama still ends up with more pledged delgates, more popular votes, and more money.
Hillary has played the media as the corporate shills they are (give us ratings, not truth). Votes for Clinton after Super Tuesday were wasted votes. Money donated to Clinton after Super Tuesday was wasted money.
We’ve had a candidate with a clear majority for two months.
It’s time to quit dicking around and to make sure McSame doesn’t end up in Al Gore’s house.
Please file under “Too Late”:
“It’s time to quit dicking around and to make sure McSame doesn’t end up in Al Gore’s house.”
Please file under “Dumb Ass”:
fleettwood
“Hillary’s word: It’s worth nothing
COURTING VOTERS in Iowa and New Hampshire, last August Sen. Hillary Clinton signed a pledge not to “campaign or participate” in the Michigan or Florida Democratic primaries. She participated in both primaries and is campaigning in Florida. Which proves, again, that Hillary Clinton is a liar.
Clinton kept her name on the Michigan ballot when others removed theirs, she campaigned this past weekend in Florida, and she is pushing to seat Michigan and Florida delegates at the Democratic National Convention. The party stripped those states of delegates as punishment for moving up their primary dates.
“I will try to persuade my delegates to seat the delegates from Michigan and Florida,” Clinton said last week, after the New Hampshire primaries and Iowa caucuses were safely over.
Clinton coldly and knowingly lied to New Hampshire and Iowa. Her promise was not a vague statement. It was a signed pledge with a clear and unequivocal meaning.
She signed it thinking that keeping the other candidates out of Michigan and Florida was to her advantage, but knowing she would break it if that proved beneficial later on. It did, and she did.”
unionleader.com
Hillary has only the two state issue or superdelegates. Otherwise she can’t get the math to lie for her.
Hillary who?
Well you wanted an example Rage.
There’s one. Capn and his arrogance.
“Those of us who know how to add …”
My IQ tests at 131 Capn. How about you?
The process has rules. Senator Clinton is operating within those rules.
Why am I reminded of Bill Clinton and the definition and interpretation of another word, and the act of oral notsex?
“DNC member Jon Ausman filed a petition with the party’s rules and bylaws committee pointing out that the charter of the DNC uses the verb “shall” when describing the relationship between superdelegates and the convention, as in — superdelegates “shall” be seated. The argument, basically, is that the charter supercedes any penalty imposed by the RBC. The counterarguement is that the verb “shall” is later qualified.
The 28 members of the DNC’s Rules and Bylaws committee may well decide that the challenge has validity and may well decide to seat the superdelegates from Florida, and then, should there be a similar petition from Michigan, the superdelegates from Michigan.”
talkleft.com
I know Ben. McCain had to get in bed with Hagee. Now he doesn’t even look like himself anymore. Why would he be “agin” agents of intolerance before he was “fer” them?
“My IQ tests at 131…”
I call shenanigans. Who in the world knows their IQ number?
BlueJay
Posted May 7, 2008 at 3:28 pm | Permalink
My IQ tests at 131 Capn. How about you?
===============================================
IQ tests mean almost nothing, as evidenced by this and other statements you have made.
JR learned his IQ after taking a test printed on the back of a Cheerios box.
Maybe if you put that on your resume, you could get a job.
Even if Obama does ultimately get the nomination, there are many who just cannot vote for that Republican schmoozer.
Republican schmoozer? Oh! You mean Hillary!
Seriously, BlueJay, if Bill was Republican-lite, Hillary bleeds red. She once was a Republican, and I don’t think that’s gone away completely. Do you seriously think she won’t reach across the aisle? Bill did, and Hillary won’t hesistate, probably even more often than Obama would.
Some liberals complain of Obama that he doesn’t seem to hate the CONs and want treat them as badly as we’ve been treated by them.
But it’s exactly this mean-spirited, gutter politics that turns the average person away from getting involved in politics.
If a power-hungry group–the CONs–can turn the vast majority of Americans off from politics and turn them on to “American Idol,” it can forever keep its sweaty palms on the levers of power.
Barack Obama, a grassroots organizer, knows that the way to motivate is to first listen and then lead. What he hears from the people is, “we’re sick and tired of politics as usual, the politics of hate and fear, and we want something positive to work together for.”
This is the opportunity he brings. It’s not “kowtowing to our political enemies” any more than FDR’s New Deal was giving into Hooverism or Johnson’s Civil Rights legislation was “working with segregationists.”
Any program or policy that is out of synch with a majority of Americans is doomed to ultimate failure. That’s why the NeoCON agenda is in tatters and the RepubliCONs are reeling. Check this out:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10138.html
GOP leaders warn of election disaster
By: John Bresnahan
May 7, 2008 11:32 AM EST
Shellshocked House Republicans got warnings from leaders past and present Tuesday: Your party’s message isn’t good enough to prevent disaster in November, and neither is the NRCC’s money.
The double shot of bad news had one veteran Republican House member worrying aloud that the party’s electoral woes — brought into sharp focus by Woody Jenkins’ loss to Don Cazayoux in Louisiana on Saturday — have the House Republican Conference splitting apart in “everybody for himself” mode.
In a piece published in Human Events, the Republicans’ onetime captain, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, warned his old colleagues that they face “real disaster” on Election Day . . .
“The Republican brand has been so badly damaged that if Republicans try to run an anti-Obama, anti-Rev. Wright, they are simply going to fail,” Gingrich said. “This model has already been tested with disastrous results.”
The NRCC ran TV ads tying Cazayoux to national Democratic figures in the Louisiana special election, only to see Democrats grab control of a House seat that had been in the GOP column for more than three decades.
*****
The way to ultimately win is not to use the tatics that led to your opponent losing . . .
Have a look around this thread Capn.
“Max”,BDP fleetwood,GMC etc.
These are the folks Obama thinks he can work with.
No thanks. Trying to work with them might be WORSE than a McCain Presidency.
GM don’t wake CF up – he lives in a dream world where he is in control and facts are his to determine.
Personal attack much, ksgrm? Is that all you’re left with?
Heh, listen to the Fascists complain about how the Democrats choose their nominee.
The RepubliCONs don’t have to worry about this stuff, because they simply give the winner of the state ALL the delegates of that state.
If they had our system, Romney would have been closer to McSame than Clinton was to Obama.
If we had their system, Clinton would have won long ago.
Bottom line–the RepubliCON system sucks, but it is more efficient than messy democracy.
And you know what else, the RNC can’t figure out what to do with Michigan and Florida either, since they broke their rules too.
I don’t trust it Rox.
I just don’t.
Obama was only in the Senate for 138 days before he started his run. And his run is based on ONE good speech.
There is a force behind his candidacy. And until I know what it is, I don’t trust it.
Ronald Reagan was a union leader and Democrat until Nancy got him reprogrammed. I have the same fears about let’s all get along Obama.
J R–
He’s going to build coalitions.
He’s not going to go steady with them.
“There is a force behind his candidacy.”
Correct.
It’s called “the will of the people.”
We are the change we seek.
Nobody else is going to do it for us.
I don’t really understand why some liberals are not wanting Obama to reach out to all sides.
We are all Americans and should hold that value first. If we meet on the street, you wouldn’t know or be able to judge me by my political beliefs. Don’t we all have friends from all sides?
I cannot understand who wants more “business as usual” in Washington. I’ve posted many times about the two teams and how the party sets us up against each other – and use each other for cover.
If we in the stands saw one of our leaders reach across the yard line and shake hands with the other side – wouldn’t that be refreshing?
We have our differences, but I think they’ve become so extreme on each end, we need someone to pull us together in the middle. But it’s not cut and dry. On some issues we are completely opposed to each other, but on others some of us actually agree.
Just IMHO.
Duh dems are squealing like a litter of pigs in a closed pen.
“He’s not going to go steady with them.”
How do you know?
This is a damned dangerous situation is my take.
You have a candidate who has gotten use to being liked. He almost expects that he SHOULD be liked.
Get him around the con money and power and he might continue to try and stay liked.
And I don’t think Obama is inventing anything new by reaching out. He is just standing up as a leader and addressing the need for it.
Compromise is a very important word to elected officials at all levels. Talk to some of your former or present elected officials. See how many times they use that word in a conversation about legislation (at any level).
Politicians have been compromising throughout our history. Give and take. You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours. Even at your local city commission level.
Obama is being bold and acknowledging it. Yes he takes some risk in doing so. Yes he is also appealing to fence sitters and disgruntled republicans.
But whether Obama gets elected or not – your democratic leaders have been compromising all along.
Well, sure, one can always imagine a worst-case scenario.
How about imagining a best-case scenario for a change:
Out of Iraq in six months.
Massive reallocation of resources from war to peace.
National healthcare for real this time.
Investment in green technology.
US, a world leader in green power.
Repeal tax cuts for the rich.
Bring back the estate tax on billionaires.
Balance the budget and pay down the debt.
And even though he’s far from rich, make a special tax increase for everyone named Max who lives in Iowa.
Am-Way is entirely wrong.
Obama isn’t compromising anything. He’s building the majority coalitions that are going to get his programs passed.
He’s responding to the will of the majority.
That’s not pandering or compromising.
This doesn’t represent compromise–It represents leadership:
“As such, Rev. Wright’s comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems — two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.”
I’m not gonna name names, but I’m not the only one who has these reservations with Obama’s meteoric rise. It just does not feel right somehow.
The media missing stuff on him for so long is PARTICULARLY troubling.
Well Capn I agree. But here is the mindset of the typical neocon:
1: If something goes wrong, it is the liberals fault.
2. If something works, it is because of the republicans.
3: If someone speaks out against republicans, they are a liberal.
4: If they were in the Military or a former member of the GOP, then the liberals have bought them out.
5: If a newspaper speaks out against them, it must be liberal newspaper.
6:If someone is an independent or a libertarian, they are a liberal.
I like Obama. I am still impressed by the ideas of Ross Perot. But even I am having trouble accepting the idea that anyone can reason with a neocon. They are stuck in a paradigm.
One at a time
“Out of Iraq in six months”
Great goal, I expect it to take about 12 months to do it in an orderly and conservation of resources fashion.
“Massive reallocation of resources from war to peace”
Would have to see what that means on an individual project basis.
“National healthcare for real this time.”
Sorry, can’t buy it
“Investment in green technology.”
Absolutely
“US, a world leader in green power”
Yes, but trod carefully. Ethanol as an example
“Repeal tax cuts for the rich.”
Perhaps. Selectively. Can;t really support that.
“Bring back the estate tax on billionaires.”
No
“Balance the budget and pay down the debt”
Great idea, but good luck with that.
Here’s an idea, for every extra dollar raised in new taxes, we cut one dollar in discretionary spending
No Republic Party partisans want to talk about how one out of four people go out of their way to vote in the Republic Party primaries, long after their nominee is a lock, to vote against John Sidney McCain the Third.
Why would anyone do that except that there is a passionate rejection of McSame from the Huckabites and Paul-bearers?
Because MCCain is a loser. Period.
“It just does not feel right somehow.”
it’s a republican plot.
“BlueJay
Posted May 7, 2008 at 3:41 pm | Permalink
Have a look around this thread Capn.
“Max”,BDP fleetwood,GMC etc.
These are the folks Obama thinks he can work with.
No thanks. Trying to work with them might be WORSE than a McCain Presidency.”
I disagree BlueJay. I don’t think Obama wants to work with the extremist CONs. However, there are still a few old-fashioned Republicans who are reasonable. The kind that Paul Rossell labels “IDIOTS”
littlejohn
Posted May 7, 2008 at 4:10 pm | Permalink
Here’s an idea, for every extra dollar raised in new taxes, we cut one dollar in discretionary spending
===============================================
Great idea – ain’t gonna happen.
Name one time in the last 50 years that Federal Spending as gone down!
Bush I agreed to raise taxes in exchange for curbs on spending. Look what that got us.
When they promise tax increases, believe em.
When they promise spending cuts, they are lying.
Monkeyhawk
Posted May 7, 2008 at 4:11 pm | Permalink
No Republic Party partisans want to talk about how one out of four people go out of their way to vote in the Republic Party primaries, long after their nominee is a lock, to vote against John Sidney McCain the Third.
Why would anyone do that except that there is a passionate rejection of McSame from the Huckabites and Paul-bearers?
—————————
That’s because the Republican Party nomination is locked up and Republican voters can have their fun with no penalty.
On the other hand, the Democrats have all penalties and no fun.
(chortles)
The media! BlueJay that’s another group of total incompetents who are sooo easily led around by their nose ring. I know you won’t let them drag you along because you are smarter than all of them put together!
In my life I haven’t felt as respected by a politician as Obama has made me feel. He readily admits to being human showing humility; he speaks as adults speak to one another without lectures and without arrogance; he knows motivated people can put aside pettiness and frivolity to tackle real problems and come together for solutions.
I am satisfied to wait for the primary season to finish. I want the nominee to be the fair winner with no hint on impropriety. Then I will rally behind that nominee to elect a president who will be head and shoulders above what we’ve got or what the Republicans are offering.
““Bring back the estate tax on billionaires.”
No”
It affected only a few thousand OBSCENELY rich people. You are buying the “death tax” crap.
VET – my first presidential candidate (1964) warned about Neo-Cons. Barry Goldwater could definitely see them for what they are.
Just happen to have the Budget numbers handy going back to 1980.
See any years with Spending cuts?
Also, note the Revenue increases following the Reagan and Bush tax cuts.
X = Reagan Tax Cut
Y = Bush Tax Cut
YEAR Tax Revenue Spending
1980 … 517.1 … 590.9
X.1981 … 599.3 … 678.2
1982 … 617.8 … 745.7
1983 … 600.6 … 808.4
1984 … 666.5 … 851.9
1985 … 734.1 … 946.4
1986 … 769.2 … 990.4
1987 … 854.4 … 1,004.10
1988 … 909.3 … 1,064.50
1989 … 991.2 … 1,143.80
1990 … 1,032.10 … 1,253.10
1991 … 1,055.10 … 1,324.30
1992 … 1,091.30 … 1,381.60
1993 … 1,154.50 … 1,409.50
1994 … 1,258.70 … 1,461.90
1995 … 1,351.90 … 1,515.90
1996 … 1,453.20 … 1,560.60
1997 … 1,579.40 … 1,601.30
1998 … 1,722.00 … 1,652.70
1999 … 1,827.60 … 1,702.00
2000 … 2,025.50 … 1,789.20
2001 … 1,991.40 … 1,863.20
2002 … 1,853.40 … 2,011.20
Y.2003 … 1,782.50 … 2,160.10
2004 … 1,880.30 … 2,293.00
2005 … 2,153.90 … 2,472.20
2006 … 2,407.30 … 2,655.40
http://frwebgate1.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=952453479788+9+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
Capn and Linda speak of Obama in terms describing the Messiah!
“In my life I haven’t felt as respected by a politician as Obama has made me feel.” Linda
–It’s all about FEELINGS, not what is said, but how NICE he sounds.
“Barack Obama, a grassroots organizer, knows that the way to motivate is to first listen and then lead.” Capn
–He listens to me! Next Capn will be annointing his feet with oil.
Note the later years of Clinton – when we actually paid down the debt just a bit. And how slowly spending increased under Clinton as opposed to Bush.
It will take some patience from the people. Not a long suit with most of us. It won’t begin if McCain is elected.
Max, I have an adequate vocabulary. If I ever decide to describe a Messiah you will recognize some of the words.
Great post, Linda. Thanks for that.
“Name one time in the last 50 years that Federal Spending as gone down!”
Name one time in the last 50 years that inflation has gone down . . . or wages have gone down.
And check that table that Max posts: it has “taxes” and “revenue” but he left off “spending”.
Now why would he do that?
Because Reagan-Bush kicked deficit spending into overdrive and gave us historic high national debt by the time they office.
After Clinton-Gore balanced the budget, George the Bone-Headed did the same, doubling the national debt.
Those are your “fiscally CONservative” CONs.
bth
Posted May 7, 2008 at 4:27 pm | Permalink
Note the later years of Clinton – when we actually paid down the debt just a bit. And how slowly spending increased under Clinton as opposed to Bush.
———————-
Congress has the power of the purse when it comes to spending.
It was a Republican Congress during the Clinton years.
“And check that table that Max posts: it has “taxes” and “revenue” but he left off “spending”. ”
Ummm. You might look again.
“Because Reagan-Bush kicked deficit spending into overdrive and gave us historic high national debt by the time they office.”
“After Clinton-Gore balanced the budget…”
If I recall, Reagan was destroying our children’s future (where have you heard that before)?
But but but everything is just fine.
Redistribution of income. Take from the earners and give to, well, to you people.
The Republican party controlled congress certainly did no better, and possibly worse, on spending. Seems like they were trying to out Democrat the Democrats. One reason I am pissed at the Republican party. Spending money like drunken sailors does not enamor any politician to me.
The Republican party controlled congress certainly did no better, and possibly worse, on spending. Seems like they were trying to out Democrat the Democrats. One reason I am pissed at the Republican party. Spending money like drunken sailors does not enamor any politician to me.
Max, only three problems with that: 1. From 1992 – 2000 the revenues also went up every year. Those were the Clinton tax increase years. 2. I know that Bonus Depreciation (168k), increases in 179 expense, HR 3090 and other tax cuts all took place in 2001, not in 2003. Now I understand that there are other variables. I just think the facts are subject to interpretation. 3: From 2001-2006 look at the spending. This was the Republican Congress and Bush.
LJ, I doubt he is sorry for his mistake. Also thanks for -
littlejohn
Posted May 7, 2008 at 4:14 pm | Permalink
“It just does not feel right somehow.”
it’s a republican plot.
You blew my cover and J R is now on to me. I must now pack my fur coat and hat and return to Russia… Thanks.
It’s not all about “feelings,” Max.
But by their fruits, ye shall know them.
Bush sounds like he’s talking to an incalcitrant 8 year old. He’s got that defensive, almost angry whine going on.
And sure enough, stupid is as stupid does:
War forever in Iraq.
Double the national debt.
Loss of good jobs, increase in bad jobs.
Recession.
Torture, secret prisons and spying.
Worst.
President.
Ever.
Hey, Anti–
If you haven’t noticed, Mother Russia is more capitalistic than we are these days.
And run by powerful mafiaosi, just like we are . . .
CapnAmerica
Posted May 7, 2008 at 4:32 pm | Permalink
Great post, Linda. Thanks for that.
“Name one time in the last 50 years that Federal Spending as gone down!”
Name one time in the last 50 years that inflation has gone down . . . or wages have gone down.
And check that table that Max posts: it has “taxes” and “revenue” but he left off “spending”.
Now why would he do that?
===============================================
The columns are of course:
Tax Revenue……………..Spending
Capn knew that, but wanted to play with an Obama emotional appeal for affect.
CapnAmerica
Posted May 7, 2008 at 4:46 pm | Permalink
It’s not all about “feelings,” Max.
But by their fruits, ye shall know them.
Bush sounds like he’s talking to an incalcitrant 8 year old. He’s got that defensive, almost angry whine going on.
And sure enough, stupid is as stupid does:
War forever in Iraq.
Double the national debt.
Loss of good jobs, increase in bad jobs.
Recession.
Torture, secret prisons and spying.
Worst.
President.
Ever.
—————-
From the master of chaining “bumper sticker” lines together.
Osama Obama does the same thing you know. He really does. He links those one liners together and duh Dems actually think he’s saying something of substance.
“Redistribution of income. Take from the earners and give to, well, to you people.”
Okay, Fleettwood, I’m calling your bluff.
How much did you make last year?
I’ll bet I made more.
Maybe Capn thinks Taxes and Revenue are two different things.
From a Socialist receiver point-of-view, who doesn’t PAY taxes, then Taxes would be Revenue into their Socialist beggar pockets – through Wealth Distribution enforced by Big Brother.
littlejohn
Posted May 7, 2008 at 4:40 pm | Permalink
The Republican party controlled congress certainly did no better, and possibly worse, on spending. Seems like they were trying to out Democrat the Democrats. One reason I am pissed at the Republican party. Spending money like drunken sailors does not enamor any politician to me.
———————————————
AMEN! And that’s why the Democrats are the majority in Congress today. And what have the Dems done with their majority since last year?
SPENT EVEN MORE!!!
“In my life I haven’t felt as respected by a politician as Obama has made me feel.”
Excuse me while I clear my throat. Ahem
Why do birds suddenly appear
everytime you are near.
Just like me, they long to be
close to you.
Hit it chorus!
“Regular” (chortles) –
“…Republican voters can have their fun with no penalty.”
Uh-huh.
Hundreds of thousands of otherwise respectable Republic Party voters got out of the house and stood in line and voted against McBush simply to “have their fun.”
That’s a pretty delusional rationalization, “Regular.”
It doesn’t pass the laugh test.
I have never posted under the name of JM and Eier.
Happy now?
I have never posted under any name but this one.
Posted by: RepubliKhan [now Regular] | March 09, 2007 at 10:36 PM
Crapn has posted under a dozen different names at least on the WE Blog and denied he stole Writerdog’s nic until he was caught by the dog.
CraponAmerica, nic stealer and switcher.
Also, CraponAmerica has also posted under the JM name many times and has admitted to it.
CraponAmerica, the blog’s hypocrite, liar, nic switcher and stealer.
Crapn blames others because he is more guilty of it than any other person on the blog and constantly denies it.
Whatever it is that the Crapn accuses you of, the Crapn has done the same 10 times as much.
LLTVET
Posted May 7, 2008 at 4:41 pm | Permalink
Max, only three problems with that: 1. From 1992 – 2000 the revenues also went up every year. Those were the Clinton tax increase years. 2. I know that Bonus Depreciation (168k), increases in 179 expense, HR 3090 and other tax cuts all took place in 2001, not in 2003. Now I understand that there are other variables. I just think the facts are subject to interpretation. 3: From 2001-2006 look at the spending. This was the Republican Congress and Bush.
————————————————
1. Yes, the largest tax increase in history by Bill Clinton did increase Revenues. And the Reagan and Bush tax cuts also increased Revenues, to record levels.
2. Neither party can cut the Spending of our taxpayer dollars.
“Regular” contributes to the quality discourse here with –
“CraponAmerica…”
Nothin’ but name-calling.
Fleetwood, it just dawned on me, are you part of the Fleetwood Mac band?
Great music!
Yes, Max, I am. I’m the hot chick. Well, I used to be. I’m really Karen Carpenter.
Please excuse me, I have to go into the bathroom.
Max, perhaps we should tell congress to stop spending so much money. Of course, that might mean they can’t give any more funding to the Iraq war. Correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t there another provisional military spending bill coming down the pike?
well you got that right Max, neither party can cut spending.
Max–
Okay, I got it now.
Tax and Revenue go together as “Tax Revenue.” Confusing headings you got there.
Here’s Carter’s tax revenue to spending ratio:
1980 … 517.1 … 590.9 = 87.5% About 88 percent of his spending was covered by taxes
Now let’s look at Ray-Gun’s ratio one year after the tax cut for the rich:
1982 … 617.8 … 745.7 = 82.8 Only about 83 percent of “fiscally CONservative” President Alzheimer’s was actually paid for. This is why the national debt started to go up like a sky-rocket.
Let’s fast forward to the last year of President “No New Taxes” budget–
1992 … 1,091.30 … 1,381.60 By this time the total spending has more than doubled from Carter twelve years before, and the amount of spending actually covered by taxes had fallen to a pitiful 79 percent.
So you CONs did nothing to slow federal spending–however, you did cut taxes so that you no longer pay for that spending.
This is why the national debt is now about 40,000 for every man, woman, and child in the U.S.
Max, remembering my lessons on Art Laffer, isn’t too much of a tax increase supposed to lower revenues?
And Mr. “New Sheriff in Town” after his big tax cut — and a RepubliCON CONgress giving him just what he wanted — covered only 82 percent of federal spending with tax revenues.
2004 … 1,880.30 … 2,293.00
Yes, LLTV, it does.
There’s an ideal maximum rate.
CONs always leave that part out–they just want “lower taxes,” apparently zero . . .
CapnAmerica
Posted December 28, 2007 at 12:19 am | Permalink
Also, Kansas now Regular–
When you break your promise and don’t “stop blogging forever,” will you then admit that you are a liar?
Regular
Posted December 28, 2007 at 12:27 am | Permalink
I won’t be here to make such a statement Capn.
So, get over yourself, you’ll have to spew out your angst against something or someone else.
Capn stole Writerdog’s nic until he was caught by the dog.
Actually, I met RD yesterday. What I did was to confuse his nic with somebody else’s.
We talked about that.
I never stole his nic though . . .
Dinner time . . . too bad about the butt-whupping, CONs.
Better luck next time.
BTW, I notice that Fleet won’t disclose his princely salary. No surprise there.
See, there is another lie by the Crapn. I didn’t use the nic Regular on the old blog.
Now the Crapn is creating posts I never posted.
So Crapn has proven himself to be a liar and a poster of false information.
CraponAmerica not only steals nics, he creates others to hide behind so he doesn’t get caught?
Right Brad?
“BTW, I notice that Fleet won’t disclose his princely salary. No surprise there.”
I guess I missed that request for disclosure.
What difference does that make?
YEAR Tax Revenue Spending
1980 … 517.1 … 590.9
X.1981 … 599.3 … 678.2
1982 … 617.8 … 745.7
1983 … 600.6 … 808.4
Figures not adjusted in inflation. And by the Max, the Kemp-Roth tax cuts took effect in FY ‘82–you know the one with a $17 billion drop in receipts? Note how spending also soared with the first Reagan budget.
And the Republican party, was, of course, in control of the White House and the Senate.
So what point exactly are you trying to make? That the outlay figure should actually go down ?
Well sorry Cons but not even Newt agrees with you.
Hillary keeps winning the battleground states. This is important. Either one of them will beat the pants off the cons this year.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/05/06/gingrich-warns-of-election-year-disaster-for-gop/?mod=WSJBlog
Remember, this is all because of people like you Max.
Oh wait–I meant to say the effect of Kemp-Roth took place in FY ‘83.
Jay,
I haven’t exhaustively examined Obama’s record in the Illinois Senate, but here’s a snapshot of it:
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/07/29/us/politics/20070730_OBAMA_GRAPHIC.html
“Hillary keeps winning the battleground states.”
Yes she does. She should stay in until Denver.
Go Hillary!
Dear Repukes,
And why, pray tell, did Minority Democrats in the Florida House support the changing of the Florida Primary to January 29?
“With Florida’s Legislature in session and the Jan. 29 primary bill moving along, Dean, the DNC chairman, phoned state House Minority Leader Dan Gelber of Miami Beach and urged him to try pushing Florida’s primary to Feb. 5, to avoid the penalties.
Gelber called state Rep. David Rivera, a top Republican pushing the early primary. It had to be January, Rivera said. Otherwise, Florida would be lost in the scrum of states voting Feb. 5.
Gelber agreed. And why urge Democrats to oppose a popular idea when they had no chance of stopping it anyway?
State Democratic chairwoman Karen Thurman sent lawmakers a couple of letters opposing the January primary, but she said Dean never seemed to understand how little Democrats could do in Republican-controlled Tallahassee.
“I had one or two conversations with him, but it was always around the idea of, ‘Change this, do something about this,’” she recounted.
The early primary date was eventually folded into a sweeping elections reform bill that contained a top Democratic priority: paper trails for electronic voting machines. No way Democrats would oppose that.
In April, as the elections bill neared final passage, Democrats made a token stab at satisfying the DNC. Geller, the Senate minority leader, filed an amendment to push the primary back to Feb. 5, “which we will duly show to them later, that we tried,” he said on the floor.
It failed by voice vote. So did the one in the House. Florida’s primary would be Jan. 29.”
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/10/07/State/Florida_faces_a_prima.shtml
As usual, Repukes–and that means YOU, GMC70, and YOU, ksgrm–the bland numbers you hide behind conceal a story different than the one you want to project. And as it turns out, CF2K was right on the merits: the proposal WAS ramrodded through by a Republican Majority, and was constructed in such a way as to force Democrats to vote for it.
So, I return to my previous statement: the Florida Repuke Majority wanted to ratf*ck the Democratic nominating process, and they have succeeded in part. Forgive me, Repukes, for declaring victory. If you have anything substantive to add to the narrative of how the Florida Legislature reached its decision, by all means, do so.
How DOES it feel, Repukes, to throw your best spin (contradiction in terms, that) at CF2K and be proven wrong five entries down in a Google query whose keywords were “florida legislature 2006 primary “?
CF2K
Posted May 7, 2008 at 5:58 pm
So, I return to my previous statement: the Florida Repuke Majority wanted to ratf*ck the Democratic nominating process, and they have succeeded in part.
========================
tee hee
nyah nyah
(chortles)
The party is over Clinton fans. Face up to the future. A future free from the Clinton’s. Hillary will return to her senate seat, but as a loser, her days in parliment are numbered.
Of course, she will continue her campaign, until you silly folk send her enough donations to cover her 11 million dollar accumulated campaign debt.
Pay up!
“Obama isn’t compromising anything.”
Baloney. All politicians compromise. Well at least in a democracy. That may change once you install your one party system next year.
Obama’s reaching out is a compromise. It’s a compromise from the Chas/BlueJay types who would boil their opponents in oil.
And they will be spending lot’s more money. Capn’s bullet on paying off the debt isn’t going to happen – not in Capn’s lifetime and not in mine.
Scratch that bullet.
So Max, if Clinton raised taxes too much, why didn’t his revenues go down? The truth is that he just raised it too much for YOUR taste. Fair Enough. Maybe you should do what I do. Figure out how the tax system can work to your advantage rather than just griping about it. I know, I am at an advantage because I am an accountant.
Florida’s voters wanted a revote too.
But Florida’s REPUBLICAN governor would not allow it.
How do you build coalitions with people you have no common interest with? What do we have to bargain that they have not already taken away?
What can we put on the table to get the cons TO the table?
About all we have left is letting them ban sex or require ownership of firearms. Or we could let them turn the national parks into housing developments.
And we don’t have to bargain! America doesn’t WANT Republican ideas anymore.
Oops. Capn said “paying down”.
He knows paying off the debt isn’t going to happen.
All dems have to do is put down a penny to satisfy his platform.
“I don’t really understand why some liberals are not wanting Obama to reach out to all sides.”
Hmmm. Where to begin?
How about this? I don’t like cons. I don’t trust cons. Republicons are either A evil (maybe 15-20%) or B stupid. (the rest).
If it were up to me they could go have their own country together. Well since that is not an option, what we have to do is beat them into submission. Humility is their best medicine.
BlueJay
Posted May 7, 2008 at 6:20 pm
“How do you build coalitions with people you have no common interest with?”
BlueJay, no common interest? Surely even you aren’t that blind. Just like you, Republicans are Americans! Unlike you, most of them are loyal to their party. It dissapoints me to say so, but the Republican party has run off the road and into the ditch. Republicans have lost their direction and that’s the only reason I’m considering voting Democrat. Republicans aren’t evil. Evil is when you say you stand for something and when you don’t get your way, you turn on what you’ve professed to believe.
“It is a very small group, Charlie. Of course President Clinton and Chelsea will be there. Likely Maggie Williams, her chief of staff, and Cheryl Mills, who is a close advisor and also was a lawyer for President Clinton during impeachment. Terry McAuliffe, the chairman of the campaign,…”
This is from a conversation between Charles Gibson and Stephenopolis about the discussion on Hillary staying in to be the VP.
The point is: who wants to go through another Clinton era with the same old people? The lawyer for Clinton’s impeachment?
My guess is not enough Americans to make it worth the Democrats trouble.
She doesn’t have 49% disapprovals for nothing.
Go Hillary!
JR, I had never heard of Ron Paul before at the beginning of this if there was a Republican I could have voted for it was Mc Cain. But as Mc Cain sold his mortal soul to the dark side, so did I learn more about Ron Paul. He seem to come out of nowhere and gain support from people I never thought he would. I was bewildered at first, how he grew such a following. It was his message and it was one I could believe in after all these years!
Obama has the same power in his message, it is different as night and day from Paul’s but still it is a message that many have need to believe in. I said up thread I would not point it out, but your claim to be against Obama for saying he would reach across the party lines. Step back and look J, the extreme right has not been praising Obama they have been praising Hillary.
I know you watched Clinton on O’Reilly, JR on O’Reilly! Here were two whom are the poster children for Partisan-ship. Have you ever seen O’ Reilly handle any liberal little alone a Clinton with such kid gloves?
Why is that? Could it be that they are two of a kind? True that Hillary is not a delusional ego maniac, but she is someone the Neo-Cons are comfortable with. With her they stand a chance, it will be status Quo business as usual. I have no doubt she will live in the mud pit, BUT it is THEIR MUD PIT! It is their home turf and on it they stand a chance. In a mud slinging contest they are equals, but Obama is not going to be a mud slinger. How in the world can they stand a chance against him, what are they going to do keep chirping “WRIGHT-WRIGHT-WRIGHT!”. The Republican have all but forgotten how to have a real debate, rather it is sound bites, quips and belittling. We have a long way to come back from to reach that point where we can actual use facts and truth instead of name calling and mud slinging. I have faith the Party can be saved, I have faith both parties can be saved. Get back to a balance instead of a battle, I have at time stood in the middle between the differing side here. I have met many that are here, Democrats, Republican, Conservative and Liberals.
Not one of them are evil, vial or inhuman, or mindless. Not you, not Hank, not Capt, not KSGRM, not Farm girl, not GMC. Each and every one of you have been thinking and real. It is just at time everyone is inflicted with a illness! It causes them to be shortsighted and feverish, the illness is partisanship. It cause them to lose sight of the real problems. Lose sight of the real danger and what is at stake, what we will lose.
It cause them to defend the indefensible, lose sight of their morality and damn this country rather then save it.
Hillary is in bed with the very enemy whom you curse, she too has forgotten any principles she once had in favor of winning and Politics. That is why the right WANTS her to win, she is one of them. one side of the same coin that they are the other side of. Status Quo! She is to you in reality as Bush is to me, she is no more a real Democrat than Bush is a real Republican.
Obama is not the Messiah more to the point though neither is he a Neoconservatives!
“He knows paying off the debt isn’t going to happen.”
Why? Are we just going to keep putting off addressing the issue of deficits and debt until another generation has to deal with the disaster?
But, isn’t that what the Republicans want to do, anyway?
Not sure it was over on Super Tuesday, but I do believe it’s finished now.
If Mrs. Clinton values her future in the Democrat party highly, then I think she’d be pretty frickin shrewd if she used the time to June 3 to steer her flock toward the Obama camp. She’s a big enough person — not to mention more than professionally political enough — to do exactly that, too.
If she could work up at minimum an appearance of sincere grace about what is by now foregone for 2008, she must might find herself turning into the new Ted Kennedy among Democrats, not to mention running against a Republic herself in 2016 (I believe she’ll only be 68 then).
If she fails to muster some grace here, then she’ll probably find that her only choice is to finish her service in the US Senate. It ain’t a ceiling of glass, it’s a ceiling of delegate math and Democrat wrath that she’s up against now.
I know how disappointed you are, Dog, and how much it took for you to make that post. It’s time to be Americans. Hope it isn’t too late.
Here on this board the term neocon is thrown about loosely and used when it doesn’t apply. But the neocons are one scary bunch doing their deeds right out in the open and we aren’t stopping them. Study up if you haven’t already. Then be ready to not sleep as well.
Anyone who continues to support this administration and the ideals of it are neocons. And yeah I think neocons are evil.
Its funny on another thread, neocons are talking about how they don’t fall in lockstep,and now nano says they do suppport their party at all costs. Which is it? Of course, I know what it is…they are in lockstep, they don’t think for themselves. Flip flopping like the wife abuser McSame and defending the torture after he was against it you mean?
Why are the republicans so worried about Hillary winning that they want her to drop out of the race now?
I don’t believe neocons are evil, they’re just mostly stupid and ignorant.
And some have emotional problems….
lindainks55
Posted May 7, 2008 at 4:31 pm | Permalink
Max, I have an adequate vocabulary. If I ever decide to describe a Messiah you will recognize some of the words.
————————————————
Yes, you do. And I did.
Rage
Posted May 7, 2008 at 5:45 pm | Permalink
So what point exactly are you trying to make? That the outlay figure should actually go down ?
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God D*mn! ONE American finally GOT IT!
CF keeps trying to spin the FL Democrats vote to move the primary earlier. Took him all day to come up with some excuse.
The Dems had no chance to oppose the majority, so they just followed along like little lambs, INSTEAD OF VOTING FOR WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS RIGHT!
The party of frickin WIMPS!
Sounds just like the Demorat Majority in the US Congress today.
Just to clarify, ONE, count him, ONE DEMOCRAT in FLORIDA voted against the bill to move the Demorat primary earlier.
All the rest were SHEEP!
WSClark
Posted May 7, 2008 at 7:40 pm | Permalink
“He knows paying off the debt isn’t going to happen.”
Why? Are we just going to keep putting off addressing the issue of deficits and debt until another generation has to deal with the disaster?
————————————————
The Government was in DEBT the day I was born! Yet that generation formed AARP and they are stealing every penny from Government taxpayers they can get!
We’re born with the DEBT we inhertied from earlier generations, and we are just following precedent.
Which generation gets stuck holding the bag?
Every generation says:
Not me. Not me. Not me.
Look, now Max is turning on the old Americans from the GREATEST GENERATION …you know the ones who believed in hard work and family values….
NO reason Clinton should “quit” there are still 7 states left. I am a democrat and I had to vote for Bush 4 years ago because John Kerry is a kook and Obama’s not much better, so if he gets the nominee then I guess I will have to vote republican again, but its not over yet!! VOTE CLINTON!!!!!!! :)
A long and thoughtful comment writerdog.
Among all the cons…scratch that. I think of you more as among the wrongs.I truly do not understand how so soulful a working person can be conservative these days. But among those folks you are the one I respect even if I cannot understand.
I get a few appeals from thoughtful bloggers. I hope that is because I acquit myself well here.
Anyone who reads me knows I was very leery of Hillary Clinton. I found the dynasty thing off putting. I still do.
But you play the hand you are dealt. That or ya hold out for the next hand. That’s where I’m at.
It’s not just the things Obama has said that trouble me. It’s not just his wanting to work with people I think would rather work me over. (and have)
It is about our whole system.
Upthread, Capn said Obama had really been the nominee for the Dems since super Tuesday.
How much have we learned about Obama since super Tuesday?
I am deeply troubled and have been that a candidate on ANY side of politics can get such a gloves off treatment. It isn’t healthy. Especially in a nation increasingly run on sound bites and flashing images.
Think honestly on it. His message is hope and change. He could just as easy be on the right and say that stuff. Reagan did.
My concern is even more for the right. They think only in bit questions. By that I mean binary yes or no. If we get to the place of candidates of pure charisma, they are particularly susceptible to deception.
Let the process play out. The Dem process is more careful than the GOP. They stampede to a nominee. I think we have a responsibility to think better than they do.
Dear Nazi,
I work for a living, thanks. Unlike you, I neither suckle at the teat of taxpayer-financed corporate welfare, nor do I have slaves doing manual labor on my behalf. As a member of the proletariat, I actually WORK.
As for the substantive point–not that I think a drooling fascist such as yourself actually could grasp such a thing–the Republican Majority in the Florida Legislature bundled electoral reform alongside the new, earlier Primary date. And given how you fascist Repukes stole a Presidential election and all, I suspect that a number of Florida Democrats voted for it because preventing another 2000 was seen as the basic priority. God forbid Repukes would allow separate votes on the two things!
But to see that would require intellectual honesty, and given that you’re a scum-sucking Nazi who thinks the world owes him something, I don’t expect it of you.
jrh111–
You’re no democrat. If you are, please switch parties.
WriterD–
Thanks. Good post.
Max–
Still no answer to why the Reagan-Bush team skyrocketed the national debt to double what it was under Carter. No answer as to why taxes paid 88 percent of spending under Carter and only about 80 percent under Team Knuckleheads.
No answer as to why tax revenues fell after the tax cuts.
Fleettwood–Still refuses to disclose how much he makes while implying that he pays for gov’t programs for “Libs like you.”
Jerk.
Regular–Lies about lying. That’s why we call him ReguLiar.
“Think honestly on it. His message is hope and change. He could just as easy be on the right and say that stuff. Reagan did.”
J R,
Obama may be our stealth candidate, much like GW Bush. Time for paybacks…
Did you think Iron Man was good? My son liked it. He can play the song on his electric guitar.
I heard that song by Black Sabbath in Wichita in approximately ‘71. It was a great concert.
This is VERY preliminary.
And my source IS Fox “news”.
I will need to explore this more.
Clinton supporter Lanny Davis is on Hannity and colmes.
He is reporting that Obama had an ad buy in Florida before their primary?
Before that primary, Obama was down by 30 points in Florida.
I THOUGHT he promised not to contest there?
He further reports that a privately paid for redo primary was proposed for Florida. But Obama’s campaign would not have it.
Again very suspect. But I will be looking into it.
It IS sad. My family finds itself watching Fox “news” more lately as the rest of the media has their love in with Obama.
More tomorrow. This needs looking into.
Thing about stealth Steven is ya can’t see it.
I NEED to see it.
Yeah Iron Man was good. I’m sorry I missed a meeting. But my brother the Obama supporter insisted on the time and place to take me and my son to the movie.
My Nathan is learning guitar too.
“My Nathan is learning guitar too.”
Cool.
Regular
Posted May 7, 2008 at 4:49 pm | Permalink
CapnAmerica
Posted May 7, 2008 at 4:46 pm | Permalink
It’s not all about “feelings,” Max.
But by their fruits, ye shall know them.
Bush sounds like he’s talking to an incalcitrant 8 year old. He’s got that defensive, almost angry whine going on.
And sure enough, stupid is as stupid does:
War forever in Iraq.
Double the national debt.
Loss of good jobs, increase in bad jobs.
Recession.
Torture, secret prisons and spying.
Worst.
President.
Ever.
—————-
From the master of chaining “bumper sticker” lines together.
Osama Obama does the same thing you know. He really does. He links those one liners together and duh Dems actually think he’s saying something of substance.
_________
And the refutation includes “Osama Obama” which kind of negates the counter position, does it not?
Did these JA’s really go to college? I suspect not! Show us your degrees, MoFos!
Osama Obama is Senator Ted Kennedy’s invention. I have become found of it. It trips with a style equally from the keyboard or tongue.
Show us your degrees Steven Davis. I’m beginning to believe you have a “Walter Mitty” complex.
found=fond
JR it is always a wise thing to take anything someone whom is running for office said with a watchful eye.
And sadly what anyone see on the media with the same eye, since paying attention it is shocking just how blatant the media in general can be about misleading, withholding information and twisting simple facts.
I pointed out some days ago how CNN took a sound bite from the Clinton/O’Reilly interview and made it look as if Clinton is the one that would not let the Wright issue die.
I have thought of going independent and in a sense that is where I should be. It seem most whom declare independent are still more right leaning then middle of the road or left. But no offense to those who are, but to me that would be disingenuous. Wolf in sheep’s clothing so to speak, remember Joe Williams? He could make Econ101 look down right liberal at times. The most partisan I ever get is about second amendment issues, the economy and Federalism. And even than I realized there must be a balance struck, such as I do not support the move to allow less restricted ownership of full automatic weapons. Granted that the majority whom wish to own a full auto would not be a threat to society. No more then and of itself the firearm that sets in a cabinet is. But for every machine gun that is not under the tightest control is a availability for those whom would use them to harm society. Having been one of those whom enter the darken building in the middle of the night. I am aware just how one sided it is already.
I agree with your assessment about dealing with the hand you are dealt and for the most part Obama is the unknown quantity. There are times it is the unknown quantity is the best bet though, in particular those of us whom are paying attention more then others. Know the quantity of Clinton and Mc Cain, in a sense their differences even make them the same. Look at their solution to the price of gas, Hillary promising a “Gas tax Holliday” which means a loss of revenue for maintaining our roads and bridges. But said she will make it up by grabbing the profits of the favorite target “Big Oil”. McCain too is promises a “Gas Tax Holliday”, but he said he will pay for it with a “comparison” it would be one bridge to nowhere, three months of no pork barrel spending. But they both know that it will and can not happen, so they are both lying to the voters and about the exact same thing! What is Obama’s plan to solve the price of gas? A concerted effort for alternative fuels without the flashy do nothing promises or meaningless fixes. Of course that makes him sound the most “conservative”. In a world where we are use to the candidates making openly empty promises. Someone whom is not makes him odd man out, he is not playing by the rules and is questionable and takes us off guard.
LOL I love McCain’s attack on Obama on this issue, his pointing out that how can he (Obama) hope to be President if he is not concerned about helping the citizens? Translation: How can he (Obama) hope to be President if he is not willing lie to and deceive the citizens?
What do I see when I look at McCain or Clinton? In short, two Neocons, a known quantity!
What I see in Obama is also a limited known quantity, he is not a Neocon…