“At the top of the list of no-brainers in Washington, D.C., should be the proposal by Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., to expand education benefits for the men and women who have served in the armed forces since Sept. 11, 2001,” columnist Bob Herbert argued in today’s Opinion pages. “It’s awfully hard to make the case that these young people who have sacrificed so much don’t deserve a shot at a better future once their wartime service has ended.”
While Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton support the bill, President Bush and John McCain do not. The Bush administration argues that the benefits are too generous, would be difficult to administer and would adversely affect retention.
“This is bogus,” Herbert wrote. “The estimated $2.5 billion to $4 billion annual cost of the Webb proposal is dwarfed by the hundreds of billions being spent on the wars we’re asking service members to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. What’s important to keep in mind is that the money that goes to bolstering the education of returning veterans is an investment, in both the lives of the veterans themselves and the future of the nation.”
McCain has come out with his own bill, which would offer fewer benefits. Herbert wasn’t impressed: “Politicians tend to talk very, very big about supporting our men and women in uniform. But time and again we find that talk to be very, very cheap.”
40 Comments
The educational benefits are pretty good in every branch of service.
The worst one by far is the Marine Corps, which is still pretty good.
I guess my question is what is the “need” for this?
Most Army guys are getting like 40k in education benefits if they want them.
Several states offer free education on top of that.
Seems like a game of who can give more money to the troops.
I suppose that is ok, but I have this sneaky feeling that the Democrats goal is make having an army so costly that we can’t do it.
Nathan my thoughts exactly. My son left the Navy in ‘94 has got his BS and is working on his MS with help from his GI bill benefits. Very liberal benefits.
“The Bush administration argues that the benefits are too generous, would be difficult to administer and would adversely affect retention.”
Newsflash, grm: a college education has gotten much more expensive recently. If anyone is deserving of a generous benefit, it is these service men and women.
Funny how the Republicans support troops, except when they don’t.
Steven not having seen the specifics of the bill Webb drafted I would be hard pressed to make an intelligent decision about it one way or another. I simply made an observation about my son who finished his BS 2 year ago and is currently in school working on his masters.
Ks grm:
Congrats to your son for taking advantage of his GI benefits and furthering his education.
My personal opinion is the returning vets are getting the shaft from Bush anyway for forcing into a war that should never have happened (Iraq), so I’m all for giving them anything they want. Sports figures get better bennies (full scholarships) than service men and women. I’m all for scholarships, but I haven’t heard of many college sports figures clearing out a terrorists nest.
Nat can you possibly be more narrow minded — oh thats right to you being a marine is sport a part time affair —- the real marines know you’re type very well …….. . they call em pretenders — weekenders ….
Darn tootin’~!
Help our men and women in uniform AND their wife and kids who have endured separation, worry, fear, and death during the multiple deployments we are sending them on.
Take the billions from the money we give Eygpt or Israel. Take it from the 30 billion we are giving to African nations to fight aids.
Priorities people!
The intent of Webb’s Bill can be seen here at this URL.
http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,163440,00.html
It looks oddly like the old “Boot Strap” option that was available years ago. That was the option where enlisted could go to college (if approved) and come back eligible to be commissioned as an officer. (go to school with all tuition and books paid for and a stipend of E-5 pay)
The problem I see here is that once educated, the folks have no obligation to re-enter the military service after their education.
It might work, but if the bill is passed, the military would be forced to make enlistment contracts much longer than they are now. Like six year enlistments or longer, so they could break even on turn over versus recruits.
I don’t think new recruits would want to sign up for longer enlistments to compensate for the Webb’s GI bill. They might, but it doesn’t follow the curve in a linear fashion.
Can anyone make out the branch of service the long hair in the photo represents?
And is that a bona fide private? There is no rank insignia either.
Anyone ever notice how a lot of the regular posters here disappear for a couple of hours this time of day. They post all morning and afternoon then are gone from around 4PM to say 6PM.
Could it be they are driving home from work?
It amazes me how you can complain about the money for this and then just ignore how much is being spent and even lost in Iraq for a misbegotten war. 40k isn’t CRAP for education anymore, not to mention trying to live while getting that education, so if we can give them more DO IT.
Why WriterDog, I didn’t know you had that language in you. Could it be you’ve gained new respect for the military? Could it be the influence of a close family member who despite his fathers council, did what HE thought was best – and joined the armed forces?
Despite a fathers almost raving mad posts against the military?
Why, I’m shocked I tell you. Shocked.
American way, it is apparent you have not been paying attention. Of all the issues, of all the topics the military has always been the one I have unwavering support for. It is second only to this nation and its welfare. Long before my son joined up, long before I every knew of this blog. Tell me, when was the last time you walked up to a Vietnam vet and shook their hand and thank them, welcomed them home? When was the last time you did it for any vet? When was the last time you walked up to a soldier getting ready for their deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan and thank them and well them well? When was the last time you stood and let some spouse of a deployed soldier talk and listen to them so they had someone to talk to because they were missing and hurting having to deal with the home, the kids, the schools and paying the bills alone.
Tell me American Way, when was the last time you did the very simplest things for anyone in the military?
writerdog
Posted May 8, 2008 at 8:06 pm | Permalink
American way, it is apparent you have not been paying attention. Of all the issues, of all the topics the military has always been the one I have unwavering support for. It is second only to this nation and its welfare. Long before my son joined up, long before I every knew of this blog. Tell me, when was the last time you walked up to a Vietnam vet and shook their hand and thank them, welcomed them home? When was the last time you did it for any vet? When was the last time you walked up to a soldier getting ready for their deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan and thank them and well them well? When was the last time you stood and let some spouse of a deployed soldier talk and listen to them so they had someone to talk to because they were missing and hurting having to deal with the home, the kids, the schools and paying the bills alone.
Tell me American Way, when was the last time you did the very simplest things for anyone in the military?
——————
I do it every week when I go to McConnell, dog. I thank the gate guards and any military person I see.
And don’t even try to tell me how to deal with someone with PSD. My nephew is on 100 percent disability due to multiple roadside bomb explosions.
Actually, his attitude about it is much better than yours dog.
You know what he was most concerned about? He was concerned about his troops he left in Iraq and how he couldn’t be there to help lead them and try to keep them safe.
Regular it just angers the hell out of me, it always has the way that the troops end up being treated.
And God bless them seldom do they complain LOL OK not through official channels anyway. When this nation sends it Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines into harms way, how much do we owe them? Tell about a national debt! But the least we can do is give them a fair deal. This is the first major conflict since Vietnam. Is agreeing to a college education too much to give them? We are not talking about some weekend soldiers going to a fielding practice. They are dieing, wounded and doing the job that was sent to do.
Have you seen the video of the barracks the 82nd came back to? 18 months in a FOB in Afghanistan and are to live in conditions back at their home base that if prisoners would be force to live in the Government would be paying out the nose for cruel and unusual punishment. Bush has no problem with looking the other way while his buddies rob the nation blind but he objects to paying for the soldiers whom he sends into harms way to go to college? Soldiers being electrocuted in showers because of bases being build for millions of dollars and the wiring is bare.
If the money being stolen had at least brought fit post it would not be as cruel a joke.
You know what he was most concerned about? He was concerned about his troops he left in Iraq and how he couldn’t be there to help lead them and try to keep them safe.
You may not remember this, it been several months ago. Yes the way I feel about Bush and the invasion is a real Greek tragedy considering my son joining the Army. But it turns out I could not have told him anything because it was not about the war, Bush or some money. Why did he join? Because guys like him were fighting and dieing putting on the line and it was for them that he joined. He turn down the signing bonus, if that tells you anything. We can piss and thump our chests all day about being Americans… He knew what it meant to be an American!
How long did it take for your nephew to get the help he needed? Did he have to wait 18 months? Never mind. We both have someone close that knows what being an American means huh?
Well dog, let’s take one issue at a time.
If the barracks in the 82nd Airborne are in deplorable condition, the Installation Commander better hop to or he will be looking for another job or the door.
Now, the second issue. Funds for barracks repair comes from Congress. If Congress plays the dial back game (look at the construction mind games at Fort Riley) then there is little that can be done in the way of new constructions or improvement.
What it sounds to me, is that the people in charge of that barracks have been caught with their pants down and the Installation Commander (rightfully so) is going to be the one to take it in the shorts.
I agree with you on a fair deal. Can’t tell you how many times I and my other fellow Vets have been screwed over by Congress on pay, benefits and etc.
When I first came in, we were guaranteed after we retire, free medical, free dental and etc.
The reality is, I have to pay insurance for my medical and dental, plus if I’m referred off base, I’m susceptible to any costs over what my insurance will pay.
I call them kids, but they are all men and women. But kids to me, cause of my age. :)
I want to protect them and belong to Amvet, VFW and retired associations that lobby Congress to fight for benefits for our active duty and veterans. Sometimes we get the doors slammed in our faces and sometimes we luck out and get what we want.
It’s frustrating to sit here at home and have other people rule over your kid and his future.
Trust me on this, there are some old ’salts’ still in the military that will take care of your son and look after him like him like he was their own son. Sometimes they come in the form of Commanders, First Sergeants, Squad leaders and etc. Some times just an old war dog that has met up with your son.
Some of the finest people you’ll ever meet are serving in a uniform. The career military man is passionate about his job and his reputation. He will watch over his troops like a mother hen.
Every once in awhile, you get a Commander (like the one for the 82nd/Walter Reed) that appear to have their head up their ass. Nobody seems to know where this jerks come from and how they survived that long in the military.
But rest assured, once the Major Command found out about the conditions with the 82nd barracks, there was a two or three star down on Post kicking ass and taking names along with a Command Sergeant Major picking up body parts.
The Command Sergeant Major is probably as we speak, chewing the excess butt fat off some lazy ass NCO’s in the 82nd for letting the barracks deteoriate to that condition.
As I said, it’s rough where you are a parent feeling somewhat powerless to do anything about what is going on.
But let me comfort you by letting you know that there are good people in the Military that care and go the extra mile and the extra mile after that to get things done.
BTW, I’ve seen Installation Commanders and ALL of their subordinate Commanders ‘fired’ in one night when they have committed such violations of morale and benefit. Gone that night, had to pack their bags, fly or drive out, with their furniture left in their homes to be shipped out at a later date.
The military is not amused by slackers, they will deal with it and deal with it firmly.
I bet in a few months time, you could eat lunch off that floor or find a spanking new barracks to live in.
Heck, if the troops are lucky they will get a contracted motel with maid service while waiting on a new barracks. :)
Ah, the ol’ GI Bill, another successful socialist program which helped create the middle class and spurred on huge economic growth by government investment in our intellectual resources.
I see that Bush and McCain want to continue the tradition that Col. George Washington heard about when he was leading a small band of militia against a French diplomatic party while at peacetime. The soldiers back then were poorly paid and did grunt work that would serve only to benefit corporations and the rich aristocrats. I see Bush and McCain want to continue that tradition.
writerdog
Posted May 8, 2008 at 9:05 pm | Permalink
How long did it take for your nephew to get the help he needed? Did he have to wait 18 months? Never mind. We both have someone close that knows what being an American means huh?
———————–
Well, it was kind of a weird thing. My nephew was on his third deployment and had an intense abdominal pain. They didn’t know what it was and some Army surgeon found out it was (condition left out) and operated. Any way, the operation was botched and then the flashbacks and episodes popped up all of sudden from the surgerical complications.
Poor guy still had shrapnel in his face and shoulders from several IED’s and condition in his brain that was inoperable. If it wasn’t for the botched surgery, I’m unsure when the PSD would have popped up, not at Psychiastrist so don’t know about these things.
Anyway he’s doing quite well now and is an advisor to the Army on how to make the returning Vet medical care better. He tells the Army in no uncertain terms if a certain administratvie procedure is bullshit and they should do away with it. :)
Sorry for the bad spelling and rough grammar, blood sugar was low and didn’t realize it. :D
Popped some glucose tabs, good to go now.
Ah, the ol’ GI Bill, another successful socialist program which helped create the middle class and spurred on huge economic growth by government investment in our intellectual resources.
Tes, the point being, that federal dollars, when used properly, can be regarded as investments in our future, even if it happens (gasp!) to be in the form of benefits to people.
What amazes me is how much this administration has seemed to depend on our military, and how badly it has treated both it’s soldiers and veterans.
Remember the injured who had to pay for their own meals and toilet paper in military hospitals? And how long it took to get body armor and armored hummers to them? Not to mention retaining them long after their enlistment was up and the multiple tours in the war zones? And the families of soldiers who have to go on welfare to survive? Etc., etc.
These are slights that will affect enlistment rates for a generation or more.
Jed
Posted May 8, 2008 at 11:04 pm | Permalink
What amazes me is how much this administration has seemed to depend on our military, and how badly it has treated both it’s soldiers and veterans.
Remember the injured who had to pay for their own meals and toilet paper in military hospitals? And how long it took to get body armor and armored hummers to them? Not to mention retaining them long after their enlistment was up and the multiple tours in the war zones? And the families of soldiers who have to go on welfare to survive? Etc., etc.
These are slights that will affect enlistment rates for a generation or more.
————————-
Paying for your own meals if you are getting payed for Separate rations is nothing new, been that way for decades. toliet paper? Something fishy about that.
Retained after enlistment and extended tours are nothing new either.
Soldiers on welfare? That happened in the 70s until Reagan gave the military like a 18 percent pay raise and increased subsistence allowance.
Night drunk Clark.
You don’t get to know what I did in the military, because you cannot be trusted.
No one trusts a loud mouth, beligerent drunk like you Clark.
“This is the first major conflict since Vietnam.”
You are so full of BS WriterDog you make me sick.
You are concerned NOW because suddenly you have a personal interest in the deal.
But just fuc- those of us who served in the Persian Gulf War. Just fuc- those of us who bearied friends from Beruit. Just fuc- those of us who sent junior to Panama and Grenada. You don’t even REMEMBER the Marines going into Liberia, or half a dozen OTHER events. Same old bullshit from our nation. “Oh it was just another little banana war! Another republican adventure interfering in another country.”
First BS since vietnam my ass.
THe only god damn reason you give a shit now is your son is involved.
And not man enough to admit it.
Suddenly, the world is full of hero’s. You probably spit on me in the 1970’s. I was one of your baby killers.
“Make up any other good stories lately, McLiar?
“Did ya’ leave your cherry in the jungles of Viet Nam?
“Or do you still have it?”
Clark, shame on you. James never fibs. He has never, in his entire life, told a lie. SURE….
Night all…
Well I already busted “American way” the other night.
And while I was working. He was busting himself again.
Take a look.
“Regular
Posted May 8, 2008 at 8:18 pm | Permalink
writerdog
Posted May 8, 2008 at 8:06 pm | Permalink
American way, it is apparent you have not been paying attention. Of all the issues, of all the topics the military has always been the one I have unwavering support for. It is second only to this nation and its welfare. Long before my son joined up, long before I every knew of this blog. Tell me, when was the last time you walked up to a Vietnam vet and shook their hand and thank them, welcomed them home? When was the last time you did it for any vet? When was the last time you walked up to a soldier getting ready for their deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan and thank them and well them well? When was the last time you stood and let some spouse of a deployed soldier talk and listen to them so they had someone to talk to because they were missing and hurting having to deal with the home, the kids, the schools and paying the bills alone.
Tell me American Way, when was the last time you did the very simplest things for anyone in the military?
——————
I do it every week when I go to McConnell, dog. I thank the gate guards and any military person I see.
And don’t even try to tell me how to deal with someone with PSD. My nephew is on 100 percent disability due to multiple roadside bomb explosions.
Actually, his attitude about it is much better than yours dog.
You know what he was most concerned about? He was concerned about his troops he left in Iraq and how he couldn’t be there to help lead them and try to keep them safe.
Pretty clear isn’t it?
“American way” IS Regular.
American Way,
Not sure what crawled up, but pull it out AmWay.
I’ve done plenty of things like you mentioned in my life. Difference is, I don’t brag about it nor want attention or credit of doing it.
I spent a long, long time in a military medical ward myself due to injuries, so let’s not go there huh?
I support myself and my sister on my disabled Veteran pension and retirement. I do what I can and I do give often as funds provide.
Ah, what the heck, I know who I am and what I’ve done.
Whenever you and dog get over the storm, let me know, I’ll be here for the both of ya. And I’ll be here to beat upon if you don’t get over the storm.
Either way, my ears and heart is open for ya.
Ignore Clark and Blue Jay, Amway
They are the infected pus-filled sores of Wichita, in it for themselves, never have done anything for anyone but themselves.
And now he is arguing with…
himself?
Jr pound sand.
You’ve posted this crap before. Stop your bellyaching about it and take it to the newspaper editor.
But you’ve no balls to stomach direct adult confrontation.
My NIC’s recorded like everyone else’s.
And again, you are more concerned with who is who on these blogs than anyone I’ve ever read.
Is it a mental thing?
Just post your damn opinions on the issues, if you can do so. If you have issues with ANY of the posters herein, and if ANY other posters have issues – don’t post them here,
TAKE THEM DIRECTLY TO THE NEWSPAPER.
Or shut up.
He’s pulling at his beard right now and spitting at the screen.
Busted.
“Not sure what crawled up, but pull it out AmWay.”
Regular. I wasn’t posting toward you. But you are correct. Something about Writerdogs post got to me. I don’t know why. I’ve heard it all before, and have mellowed over the years and generally roll with the punches.
I’ve counted to ten now. I feel better. And of course you know I was right about Israel’s first strike. :-)
Thanks.
Uh huh James.
Go get another nic. I’ll run up my score.
How is it you are answering for “American way” AND arguing with him there “Regular”?
Busted.
Nighty nite James.
I always win.
“…… I never brag about it …..”
Bull shit — at least once a week you (and Hank and Nathan) remind us what heros you are as if some one in here will give you another medal or ribbon …….
..and in almost the same breath you call Viet Nam veterans slackers and dope fiends …… by my estimate there are at least 10 bloggers here with military service and rarely do you hear them bring it up — but with you it’s a week;y crying towel …. and you pretend to be a spokesperson for the military —— you’re a liar an a pretender …..
big deal you shake their hand and tell them thanks — what a lie tooooo === how about buying em lunch girly boy ????
At my request my offensive post was deleted, I am sorry for the offense I gave those whom read it.
Reggie,
I never said the ill treatment of our soldiers in the field was anything new, but I ran all that by some an old friend’s VFW buddies last week, some from WWII, and they say it’s never been worse. Today it seems to be the rule rather than the exception.
The issue they brought up were the show trials of enlisted personnel for carrying out policy that had been approved at the top of the chain of command and susequently got bad press. They characterized that as betrayal of our soldiers of the worst sort.
5 Trackbacks
[...] TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime wrote an interesting post today on Expand the GI BillHere’s a quick excerptWhile Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton support the bill, President Bush and John McCain do not. [...]
[...] WE Blog | The Wichita Eagle Editorial Department Blog wrote an interesting post today on Expand the GI BillHere’s a quick excerptExpand the GI Bill PostedJust now “At the top of the list of no-brainers in Washington, D.C., should be the proposal by Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., to expand education benefits for the men and women who have served in the armed forces since Sept. 11, 2001,” columnist Bob Herbert argued in today’s Opinion pages. “It’s awfully hard to make the case that these young people who have sacrificed so much don’t deserve a shot at a better future once their wartime service has ended.” While Barack Obama and [...]
[...] WE Blog | The Wichita Eagle Editorial Department Blog wrote an interesting post today on Expand the GI BillHere’s a quick excerptExpand the GI Bill PostedJust now “At the top of the list of no-brainers in Washington, D.C., should be the proposal by Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., to expand education benefits for the men and women who have served in the armed forces since Sept. 11, 2001,” columnist Bob Herbert argued in today’s Opinion pages. “It’s awfully hard to make the case that these young people who have sacrificed so much don’t deserve a shot at a better future once their wartime service has ended.” While Barack Obama and [...]
[...] Continue Reading Posted on: Thursday, May 8, 2008 at 8:31 pm Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. [...]
[...] to expand education benefits for the men and women who have served in the armed forces since Septhttp://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/05/expand-the-gi-bill/President Bush proclaims Military Spouse Day 2008 Navy League of the United StatesWhile our men and [...]