WE Blog

The environment isn’t a Democratic or Republican issue. It’s incumbent on all responsible citizens to moniter these issues and take all action necessary to protect our Kansas environment for future generations.

Liar Neufeld will try again - perhaps he will even come up with some new lies. And we will stop him again.

Let Sunflower build their ‘magic algae’ plant at their existing coal plant. then they can prove their technology which, right now, is simply pie-in-the-sky. Then let them make an expansion proposal based on FACTS; not wild suppositions.

“Then let them make an expansion proposal based on FACTS; not wild suppositions.”

Ben, isn;t that what Bremby didn;t approve them for? Wild speculation as to what the regulations concerning C0 emissioons would be? Since there are no Kansas or Federal emission standards?

Now that their delusional lies on coal have been exposed, perhaps it’s time to shine the light of truth and reality on their ethanol scams?

Busting a BIG myth here about “switchgrass” and ag waste ethanol. It doesnt yet exist. Kinda like the magic algae.

http://www.dtnethanolcenter.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=71&pid=39

ksfg - I think ICM is doing some good research in biomass-ethanol. However, you are correct in that it ain’t there yet.

The Supreme Court ruled that it CAN be, did it rule that it must be? This is not for me about the plant one way or the other. It is about Bremby just doing what he pleased, and who knows who might have paid him, or what the political reason? Because he didn;t follow ANY published guidelines or regulaitons, one can assume whatever they wish. Just because, in this case, you agreed with his decision, doesn;t meant it was a good one and sets a precedent.

Sol, IIRC, coal oil can be used in some way as a substitute for diesel. I remember when my aunt and uncle in Wyoming used to heat their house with coal oil. It was stinky! I dont know how the processing works, but hopefully, it wont be processed in western Kansas with limited water supply.

Ben, that’s my point. A LOT of things are being sold as market ready, when in fact, “research ready” might be more appropriate.

I support the research, just dont tell me it’s commercially viable when it isnt.

Ksfarmgrrl: I have a feeling the ethanol industry in Kansas might be in a slump. I have seen articles about poor economics of the industry. The EAGLE ran an article recently about a mild layoff of staff by the ICM Company, an ethanol design/build company, in Colwich. I believe the Pratt ethanol plant has run into financial troubles but don’t know if enough to close them down.

I’m always amazed that people are rightly concerned about green house gases emissions but not mention of the impending danger to our underground aquifer drinking water, perhaps some of the best quality water in the world.

Perhaps its a matter of educating the public.

JWink

Neufeld is an idiot, and the legislature should have let the court case run it’s course. Sure, build the technology and prove it at an existing plant. I don;t even care about the plant one way or the other. I object to Bremby deciding on his own that the plant would violate emission standards, when in fact they don;t exist at the State of Kansa or the Federal Level. And Ben, CAN be done and MUST be done are too very exacting standards, as I am sure as a scientist you are aware of.

Yeah Wink. Education is always a good thing, but I’m not sure that’s really the reason folks in ks dont seem to care about their water supply.

I think they have a vague sense that we are reaching “peak water” so to speak in kansas, but they think it’s in western Kansas, and no one lives out here but pheasants and stupid people. (Actually, they may be right about that…)

SO, as long as it isnt THEIR water being used, a big mistake in thinking, they dont really care.

And the folks who do understand the seriousness of the water issues?

It’s just too overwhelming, and the consequences of us keeping on doing the things we are doing and PLANNING to do, are just to huge for them to contemplate.

So… They put fingers to ears and sing “lalalalalla” so they dont have to think about it. Just like we, as a nation, dont seem to mind running out the clock and leaving our debt problems to future generations…

Kansans dont seem to mind leaving the “water problems” to future generations. And folks like sebelius and parkinson and joe harkins will be LONG retired before the water chickens come home to roost, so to speak.

So much for the culture of personal responsibility. Maybe Sting should have said “I hope the voters of Kansas love their children too”.

All the education money in Kansas will be wasted if there’s no population to be educated. But then, I guess it wont MATTER if the water is gone.

“I could do stinky for the time being, as long as it is not more harmful.”

Well, the “stinky” part was just my childhood observation.

But as for coal being harmful, google “moutain top removal” and see what you find. It’s an ALARMING thing!

“Same articleAnd contrary to the assertions made by lawmakers over rejecting the plant, Bremby said he has no plans to regulate carbon emissions from other industries”

WHy the hell not if it’s that important?!!!!”

See my post above LJ. I think the consequences of regulating ALL carbon emissions is just too overwhelming to the average person to contemplate.

And the current crop of politicians and judges will be long gone when the piper demands payment.

So, in a nutshell (the long version)

Bremby knows carbon emissions are bad for people, but he doesn;t know how much is too much. There are no federal or state guidelines to go by, or support his actions. He does KNOW that the emissions by this plant is too much. He also thinks that only new coal powered powerplant carbon emissions are worth bothering with because regulating all carbon emissions (which he has taken on as party of his job description), is just too dificult to explain and will overwhelm the average person?

Come on KSFarmgrrl, you don;t really buy that do you? I understand you agree with his conclusion. Maybe I would too, if he had anything but speculaiton to go on.

sol - was there promise? YES! Hitler fueled much of the Luftwaffe with F-T liquids from coal. I invented (Gulf Oil owns the patent) a F-T catalyst based on cobalt carbonyl that did not require the precious metal Ruthenium - that improved that part of the process.

Basically F-T goes through gassification first then CO+H2 = hydrocarbons + H2O There are a bunch of other steps of course. We can also convert natural gas (remote locations) to diesel fuel - very clean diesel with a high cetane number.

SRC is based on a very different process. Coal is not ‘carbon’; it is actually a very complex hydrocarbon. Especially ‘low-grade’ coal. So, the idea of SRC is a sort of fractionation leading to a more H-rich hydrocarbon liquid and a more pure carbon solid. The hydrocarbon can then be a feedstock in a refinery.

The good thing about both of these processes if that the hetero-elements can be removed. However, the carbon issues remain.

Again, I am not arguing for or against the powerplant. But the will of the people, as expressed by their representative government, was set aside by Mr Bremby. He should have damn good reason and argument other than “it’s bad for you” to do so. I can just as easily argue that Bremby was bought off as you can the legislature

lj - let the courts decide the legal matter.

LJ, I didnt say anything about amounts of carbon. But thanks for putting words in my mouth. I did say I think people are overwhelmed by the thought of what our future holds for both water and carbon regulation.

It’s not that Bremby or anyone else wont explain it. It’s that people wont listen. Finger, ears, lala.

You know the drill.

OOps, sorry. forgot the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEy6EuZp9IY&feature=related

I’m gonna hunt down Joni Mitchell singing “paved paradise, put up a parking lot” next.

coal gasification

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_gas

1850s Every small to medium sized town and city had a gas plant to provide for street lighting. Subscribing customers could also have piped lines to their houses. By this era, gas lighting became accepted. Gaslight trickled down to the middle class and later came gas cookers and stoves.

By all accounts, Bremby overstepped his authority, based on the theory “carbon emissions are bad for humans”. He refuses or has refused to identify what amount of emissions are allowable. Let science prevail, not philosphical thought. ANd before you go there, I understand that the common scienctific theory is that carbon emissons cause gobal warming and that is bad for humans. I want to know the science that says how much is too much? What did he base his decision on? Why is that too much to ask?

bth
Posted May 22, 2008 at 10:40 am | Permalink
lj - let the courts decide the legal matter.

***********************************

Umm, I already stated my support of that. At the most, one bill, with one vote to override the veto was sufficient. After that, all theater butter for the popcorn of those who are interested in partisan politics

LJ, my answer is “I dont know”. I’m not a scientist, nor do I claim to be one. You should note I do not participate in the global warming wars here. I’d get my ass handed to me in a heart beat if I waded in on science discussions.

But I DO know about water. And, as you well know, THAT is my issue about Holcomb. Find someone else to debate the science with. And I’ll let the courts figure out if Bremby acted legally.

As promised… Joni Mitchell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKRThOEPl7Y&feature=related

And, as noted, SCIENCE isnt going to get the public involved in protecting their own environment.

Which is why I keep posting John Prine and Joni Mitchell….

Do I think it’s a good thing that folks are swayed more by music than science? No. But that’s how it is. Trust me. All the facts in the world made NO difference regarding the rape of Cedar Bluff.

But and emotional slap in the face will get them to PAY ATTENTION. They can THEN see the facts and make up their own minds. Maybe you dont work that way, but my experience has been, the general voting public does.

See also: Shrub Bush.

My position is that we must move to minimize carbon emissions and to increase carbon sequestration. I’m not going to play your ‘how many angels can dance on the head of a pin’ game. Obviously we are not going to outlaw breathing (we exhale CO2).

ksfg - a good analogy with water. We are not going to tell someone he/she cannot take a drink when thirsty but we can and should attempt to regulate the over-use of water.

“I’m not going to play your ‘how many angels can dance on the head of a pin’ game”

I am not playing a game. Out of control government bueaurocrats piss me off. Out of control Presidents do to, and BUsh is one, so don;t try and paint this as partisan.

Bremby is a government official. If he wants to step up to the plate for the environment, fine. You can argue that it’s his job. I probably wouldn;t disagree. But if he does so, he needs to do so witht he science and the numbers. feel good platitutdes. That’s his job.

“Dearborn MI February 4, 2007; Ford engineers are working on alternative-fuel powertrain systems, including hybrid, clean diesel, hydrogen combustion and fuel cell to accommodate the variety of resources and requirements around the world that will dictate which technologies are likely to catch on, says Nancy Gioia, Ford Motor Company director of Sustainable Mobility Technology Lab and Hybrid Vehicle Programs.”

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/02/04/036046.html

“At Ford, we’re developing new technologies to reduce our country’s dependence on foreign oil and help save you money at the pump,”

media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=23713

“Ford Testing 120mpg Plug-In Hybrid SUV”
jalopnik.com/351105/ford-testing-120mpg-plug+in-hybrid-suv

http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/EscapeHybrid/?searchid=426441|23233138|167779089

Ford Earns Energy Star Award
Through our innovative programs, we’re reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

Ford Dagenham’s Eco-Efficient Vision Pays Off
Producing diesel engines at our wind-powered Dagenham plant is saving 6,500 tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) from entering the atmosphere and diverting over 12,600 tons from being sent to a landfill.

Fumes-to-Fuel
Paint fumes are turned into clean electricity in our “paint shop of the future.”

Soy-Based Foam
Replacing petroleum-based materials with soy-based materials helps lessen our dependence on foreign oil.

http://www.ford.com/our-values/environment/air-climate

Ford Invents Hybrid that is *300% more efficient* than Toyota Prius

http://www.newtechspy.com/articles06/hydraulichybrid.html

The Hydraulic F-150 is currently scheduled for launch in August of 2008, can Ford work out all the bugs by then? The people are waiting for Ford to come through in the clutch.

Yep - we are waiting.

It is true Sol that Ford has belatedly done some htings. But their press releases to not equate to cars in the show-room.

I’ll likely be in the market for a vehicle in the not-too-distant future. IF Ford has a product I will examine it. The last time I bought a new car they made the long list but not the short list. We’ll see what they offer me next time.

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