It’s good that President Bush asked the graduating seniors of Greensburg High School to consider public service. According to a recent poll, American youths are willing to serve — if someone asks them.
A Gallup survey showed that about one-third of young Americans ages 18 to 29 would give a “great deal of consideration†to national service if asked by a parent, teacher, or the next president. Unfortunately, most of them — 60 percent — had never been asked.
For his part, President Bush is best known for asking Americans to go shopping.
The next president has a great opportunity to harness the energy and idealism of young people, as John F. Kennedy did in the early 1960s. They’re waiting for the call.
75 Comments
Consider them officially “asked”. NEXT!
Another cheap bash Bush thread. NEXT!
What’s the point? I was no different than the youth of today. Get out of my space Randy!
My opinion? Glad you asked:
Every man and woman should be charged with serving their country for a minimum of four years. Be it military or civil service, they should do it and be happy doing it. This ain’t Iraq, Iran, Mexico or any other third world country. This is the USA, and should be treated with respect by its inhabitants.
It only takes a keyboard to slam this country; it takes honor to serve it.
True leaders inspire people to serve. America hasn’t had a leader for the past seven plus years.
A Gallup survey showed that about one-third of young Americans ages 18 to 29 would give a “great deal of consideration” to national service if asked by a parent, teacher, or the next president.
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1/3 isn’t exactly an impressive percentage is it? That means 2/3 of young Americans, ages 18 to 29, WOULD NOT even give consideration to national service if asked by a parent, teacher, or the next president.
C’mon! Time to pile on. Bush has not called all the youngsters of this nation to specifically ask them to serve in public service (except for the time he did in Greensburg).
So much for training our youths to show initiative and do what they themselves dream of doing.
“What do you want to do with your life Johnny?”
“Well, if the president calls, I will get up and do whatever he asks. Else, I’ll just sit here.”
bush is HARDLY the best advocate for public service.
He only chose it because he was a bored rich boy wanting to emulate poppy.
Senator’s Clinton and Obama are much better suited to the task of serving as role models to encourage public service.
Dittos, J R.
That’s just what I was thinking too. When did GW ever “serve”?
The only thing he served was his corporate masters.
J M Walker wrote: “Every man and woman should be charged with serving their country for a minimum of four years.”
Great idea, JM. Why don’t you start us off?
My point is simply that I hear versions of this from time to time, but I don’t see anyone leading by example on it.
I don’t think we should be “volunteering” young people to national service (not that you are since you said every man and woman) if we are not prepared to do it ourselves.
CapnAmerica,
I suppose you would be willing to ask the same question to the thousands of others currently serving in the Air National Guard or the many thousands who have?
I think that required national service would be a great way for young folks to start out and grow up. It would be a great way for all races, all levels of society to serve in a common cause where no one can claim an advantage.
But can you imagine the logistics of such an program? A volunteer national service option, (in addition to the military), would be a way to get it started and see how it would work.
I don;t beleive that every man and woman should be forced to serve in national service. I don;t want the bloated beaurocracy that would go with such a plan. However, I do believe that every man and woman, from an early age, should be instilled with a desire to serve, and in some meaninful way. Throwing a couple hundred bucks in a pool, or making an “appearance” at a fundraiser is not serving.
And before you go there, I voluntarily served in the United States Armed Forces from 1974 to 1977. I have served my community as a volunteer (as in not paid) fireman for 15 year, and a volunteer (again as in not paid) emt for 10.
WHile not being forced to serve, every young person should be led into some kind of service, either naitonal, state, or community that benefits the larger community. And it should start with the parents. And, in my opinion, should not include only political activism.
And outlander will be the first to volunteer when such a program is set up.
Nevermind that we already have the Peace Corps and AmeriCorps . . . outlander hasn’t volunteered for either one of those, heigh ho.
Nathan–
The people in the Air National Guard today are serving because they believe in the cause and they need the money.
GW “served” because it kept him out of real combat in Vietnam.
You know that. I know that. Stop playing games.
My grandsons must complete community service hours as part of their high-school graduation requirements. An excellent way to instill the merits of public service in young people.
CapnA apparently doesn’t want to explore an alternative that would get young people of all races, ethnic groups, religions, and income levels working together and obtaining a greater understanding of each other. Sound slike what America should be about to me.
Do you prefer division CapnA? If not, what is your objection?
My objection, oh Obtuse-one, is that you’re all for signing other people up, but not for signing up yourself.
When I was just out of college, I didn’t have the luxury of “volunteer service.” I had to work for a living.
But now all these middle-aged CONs think it’s just a peachy idea to funnel young people into “service.”
If it’s such a good idea, why don’t you do it?
My grandsons must complete community service hours as part of their high-school graduation requirements.
Linda, this is another form of class-war, IMHO.
Colleges are looking for students who have “volunteer” on their applications.
In other words, students who came from families wealthy enough that they didn’t have to work during high school and had time to dick around with “volunteering.”
When I was in high school, I worked to save money for college. My summers were emptying trash cans at 5 am while others were “volunteering” before the went out and played 18 holes.
Yeah, great learning experience for them.
Talk about being obtuse. You know this Capn, but the reason service for young people can do it is that their lives are not established. Older folks are integrated into society. I agree that I am not the best person to lead this idea by example, but I think it would be a good thing for my son, who is 12 now, to do when he is 18.
“Linda, this is another form of class-war, IMHO.
Colleges are looking for students who have “volunteer” on their applications.
In other words, students who came from families wealthy enough that they didn’t have to work during high school and had time to dick around with “volunteering.””
I couldn’t disagree more. I too worked during high school to pay for college. I also played on high school sports teams. And wow, wonder of wonders, I had the time for volunteer work also. I didn;t come from a wealthy family and I don;t consider the time serving others as “dicking around”
Actually, I did too, LJ.
But I wasn’t living in a mobile-home with six younger siblings trying to put food on the table for mom.
Those kids truly don’t have time for volunteering.
The people crying the most about serving are the ones that never have, like CraponAmerica and Junior the JBird Bluejay.
“but the reason service for young people can do it is that their lives are not established.”
Really?
Maybe they’d like to get their lives established.
I simply think that if we have any mandatory voluntary service, it should be retroactive to everybody, not just the young.
I believe that the national service talked about would be paid, Capn, and would include room and board.
What a great opportunity to prove oneself on a level playing field.
Actually, ReguLiar, I served as a missionary with a church organization to China for a year.
Yeah.
Don’t let your head explode on that one.
(Chortles.)
Randy Scholfield must really be lacking of anything to beat Bush up with.
Give me a break. These kids are like anyone else in America - if they WANT to serve their country they can find a way.
Heck, my kids graduated from KU, and the college didn’t help them with placement in their new skills in ANY job!
Now who do you think should “direct” our children toward public service? Wouldn’t that start at home?
This generation is no different from any other. The editor has some crazy idea of the Kennedy dynasty being inclusive of America’s youth.
In some cities, and colleges (meaning liberal) - they want to BAN recruiters. So it’s the old damn if you do, and damn if you don’t.
Randy’s editorial could be written about any administration.
But I wasn’t living in a mobile-home with six younger siblings trying to put food on the table for mom.
Those kids truly don’t have time for volunteering.”
Maybe, I understand your point, but I think there are truly only a few that cannot volunteer in some capacity. I recall my aunt. 92 years of age. SS income only, other than what she brought in drying apples and making garden, and such things. On Halloween, she took her wagon and delivered orange juice and cookies to the “older people” one Halloween. A model of service. I recall my grandmother working at the senior center, and then as she was in the nursing home, volunteering to help with others less able than her. I recall the kikid down the street that spent a few hours each week reading magazines for the ‘reading for the blind” program, and the old guy down the street the collects used bicycles, refurbishes them, and gives them to charities at Christmas time to distribute.
I recall boy scouts and cub scouts walking along the highway, picking up trash so thoughtfully placed there by others so young people would have something to do.
You are right, there are always those who NEED our volunteerism more than they are able to give. The vast majority, are just too damn self absorbed.
My wife and I also collected educational materials for a school in a third-world country and hand delivered them last summer.
It’s a school for students with special needs, which the government has no interest in helping.
We’re still collected materials btw. Got several boxes of encyclopedias etc in our laundry room that need to be shipped . . .
CapnAmerica
Posted May 6, 2008 at 9:17 am | Permalink
Actually, ReguLiar, I served as a missionary with a church organization to China for a year.
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A church organization? What would that be, the organization to convert to Communism and Socialistic ideas?
What happened? Did you get caught ‘handling’ the youth of China?
While I was down there, I took part in a concert for local church fundraiser to send their youth on a work camp trip.
We raised 6,000 dollars (most of it from wealthy American tourists).
Wow, ReguLiar–
I can’t possibly make you look more stupid than you make yourself look.
Hey Capn-
Good for you!
I presume you were in China as and English teacher?
So Capn you helped China become a world exporter?
Did you eat any cats or rats while you were there?
Close, LJ. It was service in an educational role.
Bush’s idea of serving, would be get your ass in Iraq.
I didn’t eat any rats to my knowledge. But I did see rats (voles) which were cooked and eaten sold on the street.
The Chinese say they eat any animal that turns its back to heaven . . . in other words, anything.
(Gotta run for now.)
CapnAmerica
Posted May 6, 2008 at 9:34 am | Permalink
Close, LJ. It was service in an educational role.
——————–
What kind of educational role?
To further the ideology of the Communist Party?
I had a relative that spent several years over in China as a missionary. Since missionaries are not officially allowed, at least Christian ones—I don;t know about others, they were officially there as educators. English teachers in this case. I beleive they were both graduates of Wheaton College. I am not sure where they took their intensive, multi year linguistic studies.
Didn’t know that about you Capn. You really have walked the talk.
Well I knew from my asian travels that they eat rats and cats in the orient. We could balance our international trade if we started exporting the 26 million wild feral cats we have here.
Cat bellies would create a market just as strong as that for pork bellies. Cat futures and cattle futures could go hand-in-hand.
One grandson graduates high school this month. He has worked more hours than he should and his grades show it.
He works at the family business as part of being in the family (no pay) plus two other jobs (for pay) all the while completing his assignments and doing community service. You see he is expected to raise the money for college since the family doesn’t have extra. PLUS, he is the very best grandson! Quite a young man. I think the world is full of them and we should be happy about our future in their hands.
i do have a silly question. Regarding the title of this blog, who exactly was “asked NOT to serve”?
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CapnAmerica
Posted May 6, 2008 at 8:29 am | Permalink
J M Walker wrote: “Every man and woman should be charged with serving their country for a minimum of four years.”
Great idea, JM. Why don’t you start us off?
My point is simply that I hear versions of this from time to time, but I don’t see anyone leading by example on it.
I don’t think we should be “volunteering” young people to national service (not that you are since you said every man and woman) if we are not prepared to do it ourselves.
==============================================
I served this country for eight years in the Air Force, CA. That’s what I have done to lead. What have you done?
================================================
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CapnAmerica
Posted May 6, 2008 at 8:58 am | Permalink
My objection, oh Obtuse-one, is that you’re all for signing other people up, but not for signing up yourself.
When I was just out of college, I didn’t have the luxury of “volunteer service.” I had to work for a living.
But now all these middle-aged CONs think it’s just a peachy idea to funnel young people into “service.”
If it’s such a good idea, why don’t you do it?
============================================
Serving in the military isn’t “working for a living?”
You seem to think people who agree with having the youth of this nation actually serve this nation in some way is asking too much. Maybe you think couch potatoing it an the option. I would say the people who actually served this country and died for it would have something to say about that.
I also happen to be a Liberal who thinks there are too many, like yourself, who think others should do the fighting and dying for this country. So I’ll tell you this: Invading Afghanistan was the right thing to do. They were harboring the people who attacked this nation, and we went after them. Iraq was wrong. We opened a whole country load of worms for stupid reasons.
My point is those who volunteered for the armed forces are all, IMHO, heroes. They serve where others bitch. I would cover the six of any of them. However, when someone says they are too busy trying to make a living to serve, I got to say they have a strange set of priorities when a new car takes precedence over serving their country. I think, CA, you should look at your own reasons rather than slamming anyone else.
. . . and while serving in Viet Nam (Danang), I ate monkey, water buffalo and, I think, rat (tastes like chicken:-)).
When serving in Viet Nam ( Pleiku ,etal), I something far worse than rat; I think they called them C Rations and they were older than I.
Great post J M Walker. I too disagreed with the Iraq invasion, but we are there now, so have to support the troops.
I really respect people like Nathan. My nephew has been to Iraq 3 times and paid with his health as he is 100 percent disabled now. People like Nathan and my nephew give me hope for the youth of this country. They are willing to serve, make the sacrifice to ‘do’ for their country.
All I’ve heard from Clinton or Obama is how the Government is there to Serve The People, with huge Socialist Programs.
They are buying your vote by saying:
Ask not what you can do for your country,
ask what your country can do for you!
Oh, you Lib Dems, before you jump up to serve ME, just take care of yourselves first.
You’ll serve me by making Me pay less for You!
gster
Posted May 6, 2008 at 10:38 am | Permalink
When serving in Viet Nam ( Pleiku ,etal), I something far worse than rat; I think they called them C Rations and they were older than I.
—————–
Yeah, but the old C-Rations had cigarettes and matches in them, great for trading. heh
Was like six cigarettes in those packs? Pall Mall, Lucky Strikes and Kool as I recall or Salem, don’t recall exactly.
Clinton/Obama vs McCain on Asking Americans to Serve.
Clinton - I dodged bullets in Kosovo!
Obama - I played basketball!
McCain - Truly Served.
Talk about Lead by Example.
C Ration cigarettes were so old and dry they were almost explosive! It makes me think of the California brush fires on a rampage. I kept them in in a separate pocket for my bumming friends that were too cheap to keep themselves supplied. It usually took only once to get the message across.
CapnAmerica
Posted May 6, 2008 at 9:12 am
But I wasn’t living in a mobile-home with six younger siblings trying to put food on the table for mom.
Again with the eletist snob arrogance about people who live in moble homes.
Again with the eletist snob arrogance about people who live in moble homes.
Exactly how is that statement the mark of an “eletist” (sic) snob? Who is being put down in that sentence (hint: it ain’t the folks living in the trailer park). As I recall, the last time you pulled this crap, the Cap’n noted that he had lived in such housing for about 2 years himself.
What a transparently cheap diversionary tactic. But alll too typical these days. Any sort of sympathy for the working class is automatically translated into superior “elitist” patronizing.
Unless of course you can convince the critic that you’re one of the poor: then you’re just whining.
‘
Nothing new under the sun. Yawn . . .
Correct, Rage.
I was a mobile home denizen myself for two years, complete with mice in the oven and a toilet stool that actually caving through the rotted floor. Damn thing was, it wasn’t the mice I minded so much as the fleas they brought in, fleas which found the unfashionable shag carpeting a warm and nurturing home.
Finally had to treat the whole place with Sevin dust and steam clean the carpet.
I once had a date come over for dinner, and when she got out of her car, she said, “you live here?” and she got back in her car and left.
Ah, the good times . . .
“Public service” aka the military. The Bush regime needs more cannon fodder for their war on oil. “Straight talk” McCain actually blurted out that it’s a war on oil but he flip-flopped the following day claiming he was talking about the first Iraq invasion.
Of course he was lying because his statement was concerning his differences from Clinton and Obama who weren’t even in office during the 90s.
One trailer I lived in I kept bumping into the wall in the hallway. The same wall every time. I knew I wasn’t Fupped ALL the time so I finally layed on the floor and looked. The trailer was twisted. Come to find out a cable snapped while they were lowering it and bent it.
I think I’ll live in a box before living in a trailer ever again.
JM,
“It only takes a keyboard to slam this country; it takes honor to serve it.”
There are a lot of ways to serve our country, and some of those ways involve the use of a keyboard. I did my service on the front lines of the civil rights movement, and several causes since.
My country, right or wrong, my duty to help make it right when it’s wrong.
Okay, JMW, you paid your dues. I and a grateful nation thank you for your service.
But there’re lots of other folks who haven’t served and will never serve who want today’s kids to serve.
That’s my only problem with mandatory service. If everybody does it, it’s fair. If only the young have to do it, it’s not.
gster
Posted May 6, 2008 at 11:10 am | Permalink
C Ration cigarettes were so old and dry they were almost explosive! It makes me think of the California brush fires on a rampage. I kept them in in a separate pocket for my bumming friends that were too cheap to keep themselves supplied. It usually took only once to get the message across.
————————-
They were dried out because the ‘grunt’ corp kept their c-rations outside on pallets in all sorts of weather.
The Air Force actually kept their rations in warehouses that had relatively stable temperatures and were properly rotated by date of use.
I did try a few of those cigs though and they smoked like a dried twig. Can’t imagine why anyone would want to smoke those unfiltered weeds.
Gster, the cigs in my rations were fine, and well appreciated. ‘Course they were packaged in the early 50s (right after Korea) and were smoked mid-70s. Maybe you were getting the WWII surplus?
“ghotiphaze
Posted May 6, 2008 at 12:12 pm | Permalink
Gster, the cigs in my rations were fine, and well appreciated. ‘Course they were packaged in the early 50s (right after Korea) and were smoked mid-70s. Maybe you were getting the WWII surplus?”
Maybe, I remember looking down with one unlit in my mouth , and all the tobacco fell out leaving me with an empty tube in my mouth. That’s definitely high quality stuff!
Forced volunteerism isn’t really volunteering its slavery.
“They were dried out because the ‘grunt’ corp kept their c-rations outside on pallets in all sorts of weather.”
BS! They were dried out because the packages were older than dirt.
The crackers absorbed the moisture
*ducks*
I’ll concede the crackers were dry. Worth about a canteen per bite. The made wicked shurikens, though.
Forced volunteerism isn’t really volunteering its slavery.
Good point, TP, though there are limits to that kind of thing (Are e.g., filing taxes or jury duty “slavery”?). But how about a chief exec who actually suggests an obligation to one’s country.
We’ve been so narrowly focused, whether it’s on money or whatnot, we seem to have forgotten we’re in the same boat. Some people even seem to see the functioning of government purely in monetary terms–my wallet or their wallet–which profoundly ignore pretty much everything government does.
“National service” can mean many things, and it doesn’t have to be mandatory.
How many holes in a c-rat cracker?
Answer: 32 (if memory serves me correctly)
Technically you get compensated for jury duty and you get exempted for hardships, and paying taxes isn’t public service, but what will happen to your taxes if the government tries to insutide mandatory public service policy, which IMHO is code for a draft
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Jed
Posted May 6, 2008 at 12:05 pm | Permalink
JM,
“It only takes a keyboard to slam this country; it takes honor to serve it.”
There are a lot of ways to serve our country, and some of those ways involve the use of a keyboard. I did my service on the front lines of the civil rights movement, and several causes since.
My country, right or wrong, my duty to help make it right when it’s wrong.
================================================
I couldn’t agree more. You served with honor; my whole point.
How many times did any of you open one of the ww2 beers, sent over to Nam, find it flat, pour it out, and major munge slithered out? I can see many hands raised:-)
How many bites did it take to consume C rats ham and eggs, WITHOUT Tabasco?
Rage: Outstanding post and dead on.
American_Way
Posted May 6, 2008 at 12:33 pm | Permalink
“They were dried out because the ‘grunt’ corp kept their c-rations outside on pallets in all sorts of weather.”
BS! They were dried out because the packages were older than dirt.
——————-
Yeah, the Army’s ration were older than dirt because they did not know how to rotate their stock or just refused to do it.
When we had to fly rations into Israel because they were ’surrounded’ and land routes blocked, we went to all the warehouses in Europe and emptied them of rations to keep Israelis alive.
Except the Army ration warehouses. Every Army warehouse we went to was filled to the brim with 20 year old rations that had not been rotated. Cases were leaking, smashed and generally in sad shape.
We ended up going to Britain and using their ration kits until more could be manufactured by U.S. suppliers.
gster
Posted May 6, 2008 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
“ghotiphaze
Posted May 6, 2008 at 12:12 pm | Permalink
Gster, the cigs in my rations were fine, and well appreciated. ‘Course they were packaged in the early 50s (right after Korea) and were smoked mid-70s. Maybe you were getting the WWII surplus?”
Maybe, I remember looking down with one unlit in my mouth , and all the tobacco fell out leaving me with an empty tube in my mouth. That’s definitely high quality stuff!
———————–
You nub!
Didn’t the old “brownshoes” show you how to tap down your cigs? heh heh
Ah, army c rat cigarettes. We had to hold them level or all the tobacco would fall out. But one puff and they were done. Had to watch your eyebrows.
Once we got Lucky Strike greens. Scary. The only real good part is that they were free.
Dennis
JM,
“You served with honor; my whole point.”
Thanks! that certainly wasn’t the viewpoint we were faced with at the time from hordes of people, some with bibles and axe handles, dynamite, dogs and firehoses, being just as ugly as they could get. A lot of us got the crap beaten out of us, a few were killed. It was a war too.
Yeah Jed those ax handles and dynamite aren’t nice. I don’t recall ever being threatened with a Bible though.
Reggie,
Just those verses that were interpreted as demanding the inferior status of African-Americans, and justifying their ill-treatment. In fact I’m pretty sure that those were the only verses they thought were in it!
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