Americans drove 11 billion fewer miles in March than a year ago, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation — the sharpest decline recorded since 1942.
Maybe it’s sinking in with consumers that gas isn’t going to get any cheaper and it’s time to conserve. Then again, check out this Eagle story that says local big truck and SUV sales are still going strong.
103 Comments
Indentured servants, working to buy gas to go to work to buy gas to go to work…
I’ve cut back driving considerably. For one, I really don’t like the idea my driving is paying terrorist’s weapon purchases. That’s a primary concern. That, and it’s just too expensive to drive anywhere.
When will we have had enough? $8.00 a gallon? $15.00? No, we fat, lazy, complacent, dumbed-down, ignorant Americans will take it. We’re tough and resilient. All at once, Americans need to stop filing income taxes, go on strike and not go to work for a month or so, stop buying gas for longer, vote out ALL incumbents and don’t ever vote for “familiar” faces and names running for office. It’s time for a revolution and to show these “leaders” who the boss is. Hahahahaha. What a joke, go back to sleep. Nothing to worry about here.
Damned right, buying the gas does pay for lots of stuff the “terrorists” use. I’m sure it helped pay for Jenna Bush’s wedding. This country will be destroyed from within…and it is. The real terrorists are not brown folks in caves in Afghanistan, they reside in Washington DC.
Not me I just keep on driving and doing my emission thing.
We went to Risco, MO over the weekend and the traffic was light. We stay in an RV park near Joplin going and coming and on Wednesday night going it was only about 20% full. Coming home same thing. Normally over the Memorial day weekend it’s usually pretty full.
We might not take the RV when we go to California this fall. Depends on how many dogs we end up taking. Big hassle staying in motels when you have 4 or 5 beardies and a Miniature Schnauzer along.
Love my Honda 750 motorcycle–50 mpg around town. I spend about $7 a week for gas…maybe $10 when I ride the bigger motorcycle to/from work. The new scooters get 80 to 100mpg–lots of them in Europe…maybe we will start seeing more of them here?
My guess is that ‘regular’ driving in Wichita is not significantly down. The reason: no alternatives – no transit to speak of. As long as bus hours are so restricted and working people cannot get home in the evening it will stay that way.
How’s that supply demand system work again?
Gas prices keep climbing even as oil prices drop 45 minutes ago
NEW YORK – The gasoline price record keeps getting broken with each passing day. AAA puts the national average for a gallon of regular at a record $3.95. It’s jumped 35 cents in the past month and is 76-cents-a-gallon higher than a year ago.
ADVERTISEMENT
If you need premium, it’s also never been more expensive. The auto club says the national average for premium is $4.35. That’s an 84-cent-a-gallon jump over last year.
Oil prices fell back Thursday ahead of a report expected to show U.S. inventories of crude and petroleum products grew last week.
We’re driving 11 billion miles less, and prices have climbed to an all time high. God help us if we cut the miles say 50%.
I haven’t noticed any drop in traffic locally. I still get buzzed by reams of motorists during my commute to work on bike.
As Ben says, it’s still cheap to drive compared to the alternative (There are very few).
Cycling may be cheaper but it takes at least $1,000 worth of gear to make it tenable. You need a reliable bike that you will enjoy riding plus extra clothing for adverse weather condition. Plus it takes twice as long and we all know that time is money and it requires you to eat more food. Food prices are raising with the cost of fuel.
However, if you like to ride bikes anyways, making as many trips by bike that you used to do by car is a way to make your hobby pay for itself.
We just need to work more hours to buy more gas to work more hours to buy…
Bush says, “Addictions, you gott love them.”
Cycle riding is a seasonal event here.
Why are SUV’s and big trucks are still selling?
Because the comfortable upper middle class (read HLP) spend a very small proportion of their income on gas. You double that small proportion, and it’s still a small proportion.
The rest of us, however, feel it acutely when we fill up and we feel it when we buy groceries, the cost of which are heavily dependent on shipping and fertilizer etc., all petroleum based . . .
Presuming price for gasoline continues to rise:
1) Local roads and streets will continue to be paid for by local taxpayers and highways out of gasoline taxes, proportionally more by the middle class … but only the wealthy, movie stars, company owned vehicles, over the road trucks and government vehicles will be able to use the streets and roadways.
2) Let the middle class ride bicycles.
3) New highway construction planned for increasing traffic volume can be canceled.
4) Public transportation such as buses, trains, taxis will return to popularity.
5) Auto mechanics will receive less work repairing automobiles that are not being driven as much. Barbers will do less haircuts.
6) One more reason the new 1/2 billion dollar tax financed white elephant downtown arena is NOT needed. The holdover county commissioners’ plan to provide parking for the downtown arena at the Kansas Coliseum to be shuttled back and forth on buses — will fail … PRICELESS.
Part of the reason that Large trucks and SUVS are still selling around here is because of the vast rural areas that make up Kansas. Try driving a little Yaris down an ungraded dirt road in the rain and let me know how far you make it… the farmers and others who live in these rural areas off these dirts roads have to have large vehicles simply to make it up and down their street…
All those folks who got a good deal on some cheap land about 40 miles from work during the houseing boom?
Well, I think I know what your pain feels like but I can’t say I actually feel it.
Homes in Suburbia will stop reproducing like rabbits. Growth will be inward.
Perhaps Senator Obama did the math for the conclusion? I mean, you know, the 10,000 deaths in Greensburg, 57 states…
Could well have been there were only 1100 miles saved not 11 billion. :)
He’s not used to towns being so small in Kansas, Regular . . . hehe
Until the press stands up for the people in this country and starts pressing for real answers as opposed to simply reporting another increase in gas prices, expect more of the same. What happened to “comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable?” Corporations have taken over the media and the gasoline. Not necessarily an inside job, but don’t expect one board room to bust another.
Recently the Eagle published a story showing places to visit nearby. Good affordable weekend or mid-week jaunts. I’d like to see more of these for the up-coming summer season. Burn less gas. Keep the money in Kansas. Support local towns across our state.
“Because the comfortable upper middle class (read HLP) spend a very small proportion of their income on gas.” CapnAmerica
May 1(AP)
DETROIT: General Motors, Ford and Chrysler saw double-digit U.S. sales declines, but Toyota’s sales edged up 3 percent in April, as high gas prices accelerated consumers’ rush away from trucks and sport utility vehicles.
May 23 (CNN)
For the first four months of this year, truck and SUV sales are down a collective 24.8 percent. SUV sales plummeted 32.8 percent while pickups dipped 19.9 percent, he says.
.
.
.
Well Capn, all those “comfortable upper middle class” people must just live in Wichita!
“Corporations have taken over the media and the gasoline.”
Yep, keep looking for those black helicopters.
“The real terrorists are not brown folks in caves in Afghanistan, they reside in Washington DC.”
How can that be? I thought all milk for the masses comes from the Gawd Washington?
“God help us if we cut the miles say 50%.”
A little dramatic. It takes time for a decline in demand to affect oil prices. Besides, the oil we don’t suck – just goes to China to suck up. So unless global consumption decreases, I doubt you will see any major decline in prices.
Get used to paying more. It’s what environmentalist have been praying for. He must have heard their prayers, “God help us!”
I love the whining and crying. I especially like the libs yesterday proposing we “take over” Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Guess George Bush was right afterall – we go to war for oil! What? liberals changing their tune. A little tap dancing?
Keep it up. I got popcorn for noon. Lot’s of fatty butter and salt from Hutch.
Sure am liking my little Honda Civic Hybrid and XOM stock more and more each day. Both are making me MORE MONEY!
THANK-YOU CARD:
I appreciate all you people who didn’t take trips over Memorial Day Weekend due to the high fuel costs.
It was very enjoyable for my wife and I to travel through three states and seeing very little traffic.
I especially enjoyed not getting caught behind one of those slow moving pick-em-up trucks and SUV’s.
(I guess the gas hogs have slowed down to conserve a little fuel.).
At any rate, we made great time traveling in our little hybrid.
So thank-you America for staying home!
“Guess George Bush was right afterall – we go to war for oil! What? liberals changing their tune. ”
Not at all.
Bush DID go to war for oil. Our troops ARE occupying the country with the second greatest oil reserves.
Gaasoline SHOULD be about 50 cents a gallon given that.
But it isn’t. That’s because bush went to war and we are occupying Iraq not on some nation building or self defense mission.
He did it to enrich the oil companies and to try and kick the problem of oil dependency just a little bit down the road.
We are being gamed. For the price of gasoline to keep going up as it does, there should be some demonstrable lack of supply.
There should be stations with no gas.
My God! What a revelation!
Where’s Econ101 when we truly need him?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/26/gas.driving/index.html
As gas goes up, driving goes down
“There should be stations with no gas.”
Yes there should. I’ll make a point of that when I next write the President and republican leaders who are all in this secret mission together – to screw America!
I hope you are correct. I like making more MONEY!
Oil Prices have more then doubled since Pelosi promised the Democrat Majority Congress would reduce oil prices.
Thank God for Democrats! They have really solved this one! Can’t wait for the next Democrat Big Government “Solution”.
“As gas goes up, driving goes down”
And Max, isn’t this just what the environmentalists ordered?
Finally, people are conserving. People are looking at ALTERNATIVE public transportation methods. People are spending more time and money in their neighborhoods.
It didn’t take big brother. In fact, all big brother did was delay the pain!
Never mind that there is a trillion barrels of Oil Shale just waiting to be processed.
Or how about this news…Cuba plans to drill off shore with the help of China where the U.S. has been prohibited from doing so. Yeah Cuba, there’s some oil spill disasters waiting to happen.
Tax the Oil Companies More! Windfall Profits Tax!
That will drive production down, and prices up more!
Whoopee, the DemoRat solutions are wunnerful!
(More Taxes – Always the DemoRat Answer to Every Problem)
B.J.
“We are being gamed”
Ignore the obvious bj. If China’s demand for energy continues at the current rate in ten years they will be using ALL of current production. As one economist(who’s name escapes me) put it you have several hundred million Chinese moving from subsistance lifestyle to a rough equivalent to our middle class. And they want energy.
India’s a similar situation.
Ignore the obvious. It’s bliss.
Yup AmWay. The Environmentalists now have exactly what they want.
And all the credit for high oil and gas prices should go to George Bush.
Pelosi said she’d bring prices down, so she must really hate the environment. That Btich!
“Pelosi said she’d bring prices down”
Pelosi, Pelosi – hey isn’t she the one who said her democratic congress would:
1. Pass the budget on time (they didn’t)
2. Cut down on Earmarks (still 21 billion, a near record).
3. Balance the budget.
4. Stop increasing that pesky national debt.
5. Bring the troops home.
Are we talking about the same person?
BlueJay
Posted May 29, 2008 at 10:00 am | Permalink
…For the price of gasoline to keep going up as it does, there should be some demonstrable lack of supply.
There should be stations with no gas.
—
Wrong line. It’s demand, not supply. The demand curve is being shoved right over a fixed supply schedule.
China, India, and the explosion of the middle class in each has led to millions more families buying their first car. In fact, likely the first auto owned by anybody in their lineage. You buy your first new car, what do you do? As a teenager in 1970s Kansas I drove all over the place.
By the way, these cars (The four-door, five-seater whose sporty looks defied pre-launch predictions it would be little more than a “motorised bullock cart” is just 3.1 metres (10 feet) long, 1.5 metres wide and 1.6 metres high: from the Tata link) get about 50miles/gal, or more. The Smart car in Asia and Europe has sold like gangbusters for at least a decade now.
India’s Tata Nano:
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hwEA8oI3avDgacjYi9OklEgqTe5w
Daimler-Benz’s Smart:
http://www.smartusa.com/smart-car-fortwo.aspx
Big Government is the Solution for Everything. Bring back Rationing Coupons:
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1674.html
With the onset of World War II, numerous challenges confronted the American people. The government found it necessary to ration food, gas, and even clothing during that time. Americans were asked to conserve on everything. With not a single person unaffected by the war, rationing meant sacrifices for all. In the spring of 1942, the Food Rationing Program was set into motion. Rationing would deeply affect the American way of life for most. The federal government needed to control supply and demand. Rationing was introduced to avoid public anger with shortages and not to allow only the wealthy to purchase commodities.
While industry and commerce were affected, individuals felt the effects more intensely. People were often required to give up many material goods, but there also was an increase in employment. Individual efforts evolved into clubs and organizations coming to terms with the immediate circumstances. Joining together to support and maintain supply levels for the troops abroad meant making daily adjustments. Their efforts also included scrap drives, taking factory jobs, goods donations and other similar projects to assist those on the front. Government-sponsored ads, radio shows, posters and pamphlet campaigns urged the American people to comply. With a sense of urgency, the campaigns appealed to America to contribute by whatever means they had, without complaint. The propaganda was a highly effective tool in reaching the masses.
“By the way, these cars”
Wow! Makes my Honda Civic look like a Lincoln next to one of these.
I’ll bet if you lined nine of these up side-by-side, one American semi-truck and trailer could put one under each tire, in low gear.
9 on each side.
I’m well aware of the growing use of automobiles in India and China.
I’m also aware of their growing use and the attendant contribution to demand in the mideast.
But.
We are the only nation with an armed force on the ground in the region. And all the attendant costs that comes with that in blood and money.
So…we are there to DEFEND the rising price of gas? This is defensible….how?
Let’s either be an empire or not.
In May of 1942, the U.S. Office of Price Administration (OPA) froze prices on practically all everyday goods, starting with sugar and coffee. War Ration Books were issued to each American family, dictating how much any one person could buy.
The first nonfood item rationed was rubber. The Japanese had seized plantations in the Dutch East Indies that produced 90% of America’s raw rubber. President Franklin D. Roosevelt called on citizens to contribute scrap rubber, “old tires, old rubber raincoats, garden hose, rubber shoes, bathing caps.”.
The OPA established the Idle Tire Purchase Plan, and could deny Mileage Rations to anyone owning passenger tires not in use. The national maximum “Victory Speed” was 35 miles an hour. “Driving clubs” or carpools were encouraged. A magazine ad declared, “Your Car is a War Car Now.” Gasoline was rationed on May 15, 1942 on the east coast, and nationwide that December.
The OPA issued various stickers to be affixed to the car’s windshield, depending on need. To get your classification and ration stamps, you had to certify to a local board that you needed gas and owned no more than five tires.
http://www.alumnibhs.com/old%20geezer%20photos/gas_rationing_during_ww2.htm
Demand has a huge drop, supply remains the same, yet price continues to rise. Another result of deregulation.
The ‘A’ sticker was issued to owners whose use of their cars was nonessential. Hand the pump jockey your Mileage Ration Book coupons and cash, and she (yes, female service station attendants) could sell you three or four gallons a week, no more. For nearly a year, A-stickered cars were not to be driven for pleasure at all.
The green ‘B’ sticker was for driving deemed essential to the war effort;
industrial war workers, for example, could purchase eight gallons a week.
Red ‘C’ stickers indicated physicians, ministers, mail carriers and railroad
workers, and incidentally were the most counterfeited type. ‘T’ was for
truckers, and the rare ‘X’ sticker went to Members of Congress and other
VIPs.
http://www.alumnibhs.com/old%20geezer%20photos/gas_rationing_during_ww2.htm
Holy Honda Batman!!!
I think I’d feel safer on a Gold Wing than in one of those things. Can you imagine driving one of those around in the ice and snow we had this past year?
4 Gallons a Week and 35 Miles per Hour.
That’s how we need to Conserve.
Remember, the Liberal Global Warming people say we all need to Conserve – TO SAVE THE PLANET!!!!
High prices alone won’t do the trick. We need more Government Regulation! Bring back the Rationing Stamps!
“We are the only nation with an armed force on the ground in the region.”
JR I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.
You are determined to justify stealing the wealth of an occupied country. You are promoting using the war to satisfy our need for oil.
Very Japanese of you. But in the past, you beat up Bush for going to war for oil. Now you are willing to lower yourself to that same standard.
Very confusing.
“driving one of those around in the ice and snow we had this past year?”
Heckler – if EVERYone had one, it might be kind of fun.
Like bumper cars.
Maggotpunk
Posted May 29, 2008 at 10:36 am | Permalink
Demand has a huge drop, supply remains the same, yet price continues to rise. Another result of deregulation.
————————————————-
EXACTLY! We need more Regulation!
1. Freeze Prices.
2. 35 MPH Max Speed Limit.
3. 4 Gallons/week allowed by coupon.
4. Tax the oil companies TO DEATH!
BlueJay
Posted May 29, 2008 at 10:33 am | Permalink
We are the only nation with an armed force on the ground in the region. And all the attendant costs that comes with that in blood and money.
So…we are there to DEFEND the rising price of gas? This is defensible….how?
—
Yes, we’re there to defend the rising price of gas much in the same way that NASA is in space to defend holes in the ozone layer.
By the way, THIS where you draw a line in the sand? You’re willing to impoverish yourself if that means you can stick it to the man…but of course that may make it necessary for you to organize your life around public transport in Wichita, KS. You do realize that in Wichita sticking it to the man has real costs. Right?
So only when gas hits $4/gal do you realize the full implications of your job strategy?
It’s not confusing at all.
I’m not advocating taking the Iraqi oil.
I’m just wondering why are we paying so much in blood and treasure so that American oil companies can take that oil and sell it to the highest bidder.
Let’s either be an empire and have the benefits that come with it or let’s not.
IF we are going to pay for an armed force to occupy the region? Well how about some benefits to that?
You bush supporting morons don’t even know how to sell water to someone on fire.
Get the price of gas down and say it’s because of the troops on the ground in Iraq.
America will ok your occupation of that country for another 1000 years.
BlueJay
Posted May 29, 2008 at 10:46 am | Permalink
I’m just wondering why are we paying so much in blood and treasure so that American oil companies can take that oil and sell it to the highest bidder.
—————————————————-
BJ, please list all of the sacrifices YOU have made for the Iraqi war:
1.
2.
3.
4.
“Get the price of gas down and say it’s because of the troops on the ground in Iraq.”
Yep, it’s like I said all along. Libs are high moralists – until it affects their own pocketbook.
Go to war for oil.
I get it, you want to nationalize gas supply in the US…even in the face of what’s by now abundant evidence that the price mechanism is doing its ancient, timeless work to reallocate national resources in such a way that benefits the bulk of America. It’s working, this price thing…but it does take time. (it always has, and it always will)
What, your need for solutions “now” justifies nationalization, even if it means scrapping the aggregated wisdom at the heart of the price mechanism?
:lol:
Well, that explains the undying loyalty to Clinton I guess.
JR, it’s beginning to appear that it ain’t the fairness in Clinton you love, it’s the authoritarianism which is at her core (and Bush’s). Can you see that?
1. Charitable donations to the Injured Marine Semper Fi Fund. Funds go directly to injured Marines and bring their families to the hospital area to help w/recovery. (also helps sailors and soldiers injured in support of Marine units). Tax deductible.
http://www.semperfifund.org
2. Care packages. Many local organizations, churches, and nationally to donate items YOU select, to bring a tear to ANY soldier.
anysoldier.com
3. Patriot Guards. Take donations to provide escort and honor guard support for burial details (protection from the likes of Phelps). If you got a motorcycle, or pickup and are willing to actually attend, you can find their email at their website.
patriotguard.org
4. Promote and attend welcome home ceremonies. Not all come home with their units. Easily done every time you see a uniform. Especially in airports – tell them THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE.
5. Prayer. Anytime any place. Not just during Sunday’s service.
Lastly, sadly I cannot do enough for the men and women supporting our nation. We Americans are not really making any real sacrifice. Not personally anyway.
When the Democrats get in charge, and the Iraqi occupation extends on and on, watch out for all the excuses from Blue Jay on why America needs to stay in Iraq militarily to “force” oil prices lower.
I’m still waiting for that list of Personal Sacrifices JR has made for the Iraq war.
Here I am proposing more Heavily Government Regulated solutions, and JR is complaining about all the sacrifices he’s made already. I’d hate to over regulate the poor boy to death.
But we NEED Government Control of the Situation!
American_Way
Posted May 29, 2008 at 11:03 am | Permalink
Lastly, sadly I cannot do enough for the men and women supporting our nation. We Americans are not really making any real sacrifice. Not personally anyway.
—————————————————-
We’re not even spending our own money on the war. It’s ALL borrowed from the Chilldren and GrandChilldren.
Some have said we should spend that money at home, but we Ain’t Got The Money To Spend!!! It’s the CHILLDREN’S MONEY!
“But we NEED Government Control of the Situation!”
AYE! AYE! That is correct. The gubermint is the answer to any problem. The feds are the solution to all of lifes problems.
Certainly they can resolve the high gas prices.
)- (tongue in cheek)
I’m not sure JR understands why America is fighting the war against Al Qaeda in Iraq. He thinks that because America considers it important to rid Al Qaeda from a country that controls vast reserves of energy, that America intends to take that same energy and distribute it to people like himself. No wonder he and other naive individuals call the Iraq war immoral!!!
JR does not understand the America is fighting Al Qaeda because thousands of people have died because of Al Qaeda. To have Al Qaeda in pocession of valuable energy resources (such as the Iraqi oil fields), gives Al Qaeda power to kill more innocent people in this world.
Yes, Oil is a big part of the reason why America wants to exterminate Al Qaeda from Iraq. But the intent on stealing the oil for JR’s benefit never existed.
“Yes, Oil is a big part of the reason why America wants to exterminate Al Qaeda from Iraq.”
Good story, but you left out the part where al Qaeda was never in Iraq in the first place.
But there is little doubt that al Qaeda is in Iraq now. Reality should set in.
I think JR took shrub’s lead and gave up golf.
:)
“But there is little doubt that al Qaeda is in Iraq now.”
The DoD estimates that al Qaeda AND other foreign fighters make up less than 5% of the “insurgency.”
Most of what we are dealing with are Sunni and Shi’ite militias, unaffiliated with al Qaeda.
Given rfl’s views on social issues, I would have guessed he’s waaaaaaaaaay too old to be on a bike.
Of course, he might be so old he cant DRIVE anymore!
How far is it from rfl’s house to the nearest walmart greeter job?
“walmart greeter job”
At least Walmart offers healthcare insurance. For when he falls off his bike of course.
Thanks for the confirmation of my post Clark.
Has reality set in?
This just in, er just read anyway:
—
…For all the attention paid to China’s increasing energy thirst, rising energy demand in the Middle East may pose the greater challenge. Last year, the region’s six largest petroleum exporters — Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Kuwait, Iraq and Qatar — curbed their output by 544,000 barrels a day. At the same time, their domestic demand increased by 318,000 barrels a day, leading to a loss in net exports of 862,000 barrels a day, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.
Demand in the Middle East is a major factor right now, said Adam Robinson, an oil analyst at Lehman Brothers in New York. Mr. Robinson predicts the region will constitute more than 40% of increased demand next year.
—
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121200725158327151.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news
So I was incorrect above. The supply schedule has actually shifted slightly left while demand has shifted right, and nearly all of this can be accounted for by both production in and domestic consumption in the Middle East (they’re exporting less oil because they need it themselves).
According to the DOE, the top 15 oil suppliers (accounting for ~45% of all production globally) exported just under a million barrels less per day during all of 2007 (compared to 2006).
farmgrrl,
How’s the honeymoon plans coming along? I hope you send me an invitation, I might be able to make it to your California Wedding coming up this June!
Which church in California will you tie the knot at?
I’m so happy for you! You’ve been pleading for sympathy about not being able to get married. What a miserable position to be in! However, now your dreams can come true (of course that would mean leaving Kansas for California).
Bon Voyage!
Wait, your staying in Kansas?!?!?! It looks like farmgrrl will be living in splitsville once her one true love realizes that farmgrrl has no intention to get married.
Poor farmgrrl, stuck in Kansas with all the bigots and wingnuts. sucks to be farmgrrl.
The 11 billion miles is only a 4.3% drop and that decrease is only in the US. Did the rest of the global economy keep right on trucking? What is the relative change in miles driven for the entire world?
After all, oil is a globally traded commodity.
Interesting, a thread about Amerians driving less, because of the increase in gas prices. Down below another thread painting coal as a deadly sin.
Can’t wait to here the whine about higher electric bills when coal gets shut off. Don’t expect any nuclear power plants to help out. It would take years IF the industry ever builds one. The lawsuits would take additional time from environmentalists.
Some people are their own worst enemy.
Interesting, a thread about Amerians driving less, because of the increase in gas prices. Down below another thread painting coal as a deadly sin.
Can’t wait to hear the whine about higher electric bills when coal gets shut off. Don’t expect any nuclear power plants to help out. It would take years IF the industry ever builds one. The lawsuits would take additional time from environmentalists.
Some people are their own worst enemy.
Count on liberals and their chosen elected officials making boneheaded decisions about the economy, energy policy, and social issues and then complaining when their society is a mess.
Of course always blaiming it on the “CONS” and continuing to make boneheaded decisions.
The American liberal bites the hand that feeds it and then whines when it receives no more food.
“American_Way
Posted May 29, 2008 at 11:31 am | Permalink
But there is little doubt that al Qaeda is in Iraq now. Reality should set in.”
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Just another example of Bush’s failed course; a failed course McCain wants to continue.
Violence in Iraq is at the lowest in 4 years…..This equals falure? Hell Obama won’t go over there because he would have to see progress, and he can’t have that. Defeatist.
sorry, link-
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121172797350620243.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Anti- And progress in Iraq has cost the US how many billions of dollars? And exactly whose definition of ‘progress’ are you using?
I expect the Iraqi government to get off their fat butts and take control of their own country. They should be in control of their own oil and be paying for their own damn war. Instead, these fat cats have learned how to be just as corrupt as Saddam Hussein was.
It is all in the eye of the beholder as to how much ‘progress’ has been made – isn’t it?
“I expect the Iraqi government to get off their fat butts and take control of their own country. They should be in control of their own oil and be paying for their own damn war. Instead, these fat cats have learned how to be just as corrupt as Saddam Hussein was.”
I agree 100%. I do think it is rediculous to think we can change a group that has been fighting for thousands of years in a small period of time. You had to know from the begaining that this would be a costly and long war. I would just as soon seal the Iraqi borders and lest the animals kill each other off, but that’s not very P.C. So, we are there and there is progress being made. Slowy I admit. If Iraq can become a stable force in the area it will be worth the cost, however the Iraqi people have to want that and take responsibility to make it happen.
Best to leave them to their own devices, whoever ends up on top, and it woudn’t be Al Quida, will sell the oil. It’s their only cash cow.
Count on liberals and their chosen elected officials making boneheaded decisions about the economy, energy policy, and social issues and then complaining when their society is a mess
Like bush who gave us “The Ownership Society”, and affordable energy?
We already have rationing, except it’s the poor and less affluent that are doing with less.
“I do think it is rediculous [sic] to think we can change a group that has been fighting for thousands of years . . .”
Hey, Jeenyous?
You know who’s been fighting for thousands of years?
We have.
Iraq
Desert Storm
Libya
Vietnam
Korea
Cold War
World War 2
World War 1
Occupation of Nicaragua, Haiti, Dom. Repub.
Boxer Rebellion
Spanish-American War
Indian Wars
U.S. Civil War
Mexican-American War
More Indian Wars
War of 1812
Quasi-War with France
Revolutionary War
*****
Prior to that, our European ancestors fought a host of wars going back to the time of Christ and beyond . . .
You want to see somebody who is genetically incapable of living in peace?
Look in the mirror.
Hey, Jeenyous?
I am not sawing the heads off of my neighbors, stoning women, killing gays, and on and on!
Well hell ANTI, give me back my chain saw and sling shot then. :)
ANTI
Posted May 29, 2008 at 2:52 pm | Permalink
…If Iraq can become a stable force in the area it will be worth the cost, however the Iraqi people have to want that and take responsibility to make it happen.
—
Hell, Iraq was stable right up to March 2003. Hussein was a bad man, but he did tend to emphasize stability. In fact, I believe Augustus Stupidus among others thought the real problem with Hussein was that he was just a bit to vigorous in his emphasis of stability.
You guys have no concept how low standards have sunk under Bush, do you? :D
That’s what you’d settle for, that’s what would make it all “worth the cost,” if Iraq becomes merely STABLE?!?
If so, then how the hell is that an improvement over the Iraq of 2003?
Pedant, all I see day in and day out is pissing and moaning and a general blame/hate America first identity from the left with very little solutions. What is your solution? (today and forward)
For the reading challenged.
I was not advocating taking the Iraqi oil as spoils of war.
I just don’t see the sense of us acting like an empire without the side benefits. “Feedom isn’t free!” right? Shouldn’t Iraq be paying us back?
Too, Mexico has oil. They are happy to send their population here instead of running a decent government. Maybe they owe us some oil.
I’m the one that advcates evolving beyond oil remember? I just remember how we spaced off the problem last time. I also don’t underestimate America’s love for cheap gas. We are at the place where we will either have to get beyond oil or we will have to take it forcibly from those who have it. And America has a history of taking the easier road.
Some of the Left here are on a high horse all the time, they know all the answers. Then lets stop bitching and hear them! Clue us in on the grand scheme, please.
I need more information, can’t give you a solution. (What does the DoD think are the chances of establishing a state capable of defending itself and of ensuring basic, VERY basic, human freedoms in the next year? Next 5 years? Next 20? Longer? What does DoS think? What does Iran think? How about Israel? Saudi Arabia? All of Iraq’s neighbors? …that kind of information)
I’m pretty sure, though, that if we settle for “stable,” then we lose. Big time.
ANTI,
As you well know it is much easier to btich, moan and generally complain about anything than it is to provide a solution.
It’s why the progressives do what they do, they like the ‘easy button.’
Pedant, you are honest or you have nothing.
“I’m pretty sure, though, that if we settle for “stable,” then we lose. Big time.”
Let me be clear on “Stable”- Stable in our(USA) best interest. It is sad that we have to be the world police, but it is true and most likely will not change. I would like “stability” in the region so that we don’t have to go get bogged down and lose troops everytime there is an islamo-hissy fit.
Agreed Regular….sad but it has been proven to be a truth.
I see the all knowing Capn’ has no solution. I will check in later.
ANTI,
Is it your argument then that war in Iraq was necessary in March 2003?
Pendant,
Is it your argument then that war in Iraq was necessary in March 2003?
—-
No, it was horrible timing in my opinion. But that doesn’t matter now, it is 2008. (today and forward)
Pedant- sorry, didn’t mean to spell it Pendant.
JR,
The problem with your statements is that the opening sentences in your lastest post appear to be contradicting themselves.
Spoils of war seems to equal requiring Iraq to pay us back.
The ONLY thing we want from Iraq is a stable and free government that is not a hideaway for America hating terrorists. We shoudn’t depend on foreign oil wether it is from our allies or from our enemies since it is not sustainable.
If we can not produce enough domestic oil to feed our domestic demand for it, then we simply need to adjust our demand for oil.
TOLD ya.
There’s a couple of yahoos on Hannity’s show right now.
“Rick and Bubba” maybe that means something to somebody. I gather they’re supposed to be comedians. I’ve heard funnier elevator music.
They say that if we need oil we should just take it. Kuwait was first on their list.
ARE the American people so unwilling to get beyond gasoline that they are ready to go to war for it? I guess we will see.
“The ONLY thing we want from Iraq is a stable and free government that is not a hideaway for America hating terrorists.”
What you mean here is we are going to be in Iraq…..forever.
Which of course was the intention in the first place.
Most people in Wichita do not drive very far anyway. It is a small city and the average commute there is like 15 minutes. Try living in an actual metro where the average commute is an hour or more everyday each way and you will think twice about buying a big SUV or a V8 truck. I can tell you that sales of those are definitely not “strong” here in Georgia!
From my post on the open thread. Drive less all you want, the oil companies will adjust their inventories accordingly.
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