Sen. John McCain spent more than a year trying to get the endorsement of the Rev. John C. Hagee, a conservative religious leader from San Antonio. And when he got it in February, McCain said he was “proud and honored to have his support.†So why isn’t McCain mentioning the endorsement now? It’s because of statements Hagee has made that many consider anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish, such as saying the Catholic church is “the great whore†and a “false cult system.†McCain has since repudiated Hagee’s remarks, but will he get the same nonstop scrutiny that Barack Obama got over the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s remarks?
Meanwhile, check out a pop quiz in the Washington Post called “who would you renounce?â€
175 Comments
Hell no, the RW eat those kind of statements up!
This is hardly the same as being a member of church headed by a racist.
Ok
Trying to figure out how you eds do stuff.
Let’s see. This story broke like three weeks ago. I only asked for a thread about it maybe 14 times.
And you are still incomplete.
Not only is McCain not mentioning the endorsement of this bigot. He has actually lied and said he never sought it.
“but will he get the same nonstop scrutiny that Barack Obama got over the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s remarks?”
Well I don’t know. When ya pick up a story 3 weeks late?
John Galt,
Yeah, sucking up for a political endorsement from a man who blames Jews for having caused the Holocaust doesn’t say anything about one’s character.
My former church is no more of a whore than Rev. “Hag.” It, and him, are both guilty of overweeening know-it-all-ness. As are many people who think they know it all.
A whore, however, bears a distinct lack of dignity and solemnity. He/she uses the bodies of members of the opposite sex for profit.
Sorry, “Hagatha” – but I’ve listened to a few of yer sir-mons. And it sure does remind me of what I found appealing about Catholicism all those years ago. ‘Cause you don’t have it.
McCain would be wise to distance himself from this buffoon – and soon.
Songbird,
McCain’s man-hug extends to include not only W, but Hagee as well. He needs them Premillenial Dispensationalist / Likud bona fides more than he needs to avoid the appearance of embracing a wacko.
A lot different. Hagee is not McCain’s minister nor has McCain proclaimed Hagee as his mentor.
Obama has has claimed both with Wright.
True regular; but McCain HAS proclaimed Hagee as a man who he wants on his team. Perhaps had McCain not worked so hard to get Hagee on his side it would be easier today for McCain to create distance.
Obama did not seek the active endorsement of his pastor Wright.
It appears that Obama at least understands the idea of separation of faith from politics.
This is NOT the case as to McCain. He actively courted the endorsement of the bigot Hagee. Then, when he got it and found out all that it embraced, he lied about it.
Yeah, McCain needs Hagee for the far Right, Fundo nutcase “Jesus is coming and wants to see Israel nuke Iran’s ass” crowd. Those folks HATE McCain (so does Michelle Malkin, for that matter), and after having called Falwell an “agent of intolerance,” McCain would pretty much blow the devil–in this case, Hageee–to keep the Fundos on his side.
I say again: what does it say about John Mc Cain’s “character” that he now slavishly courts those who, a mere few years ago, he built his candidacy on denouncing?
Yeah Okay Ben. I’m sure McCain worked really hard to get Hagee.
Or was it the several hundred thousand, if not millions of Hagee followers that McCain was after. :)
“Sen. John McCain spent more than a year trying to get the endorsement of the Rev. John C. Hagee,”
Probably both regular. So I guess McCain is just pandering to them?
Oh, and here’s the link to McCain’s 2000 “agents of intolerance” speech.
“WASHINGTON: Senator John McCain, in a provocative and politically risky speech, sharply criticized leaders of the religious right on Monday as “agents of intolerance” allied to his rival, Governor George W. Bush, and denounced what he said were the tactics of “division and slander.”
Specifically, Mr. McCain singled out the evangelists Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell as “corrupting influences on religion and politics” and said parts of the religious right were divisive and even un-American.
By launching the unsparing attack from Virginia — a stronghold of the religious right — the Arizona senator effectively ceded any chance of finding serious support from within a major Republican constituency.”
http://www.iht.com/articles/2000/02/29/bush.2.t_9.php
Guess he learned his lesson. Judging by his death grip on Hagee, Mc Cain won’t be making THAT mistake again.
The same way Obama’s Chuch panders to radical left Muslims like…(fill in the blank)
Well
Readers know I have my difficulties with Obama.
But even so?
Obama’s pastor was part of his life. Obama wants his pastor, despite his politically incorrect statements, to remain a part of his life.
This is different from McCain.
McCain had NO relationship with Hagee. He didn’t want him to be part of his life.
He wanted him on his side. He actively pursued GETTING him on his side.
And then he lied about it.
McCain has since repudiated Hagee’s remarks, but will he get the same nonstop scrutiny that Barack Obama got over the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s remarks?
————
Uh no. Because it’s apples and oranges. McCain can legitimately claim not have known Hagee’s more controversial positions. Obama wishes he could say the same about Rev Wright’s with a straight face.
And obviously even the MSM can see this silliness has no legs.
This is stupid.
Obamma: 20 year member, big money donator, married by Wright, Wright baptized his kids, Wright is his mentor.
McCain: wanted Hagee’s endorsment.
The End.
As usual fleettwood, succinct and right on target. :D
FROM THE DNC:
John McCain is so wrong on Iraq, he can’t even get the basic facts about the situation on the ground correct.
Today, as he was questioning Gen. David Petraeus, he again confused the difference between Shiite and Sunni Muslims.
At least five times as a candidate John McCain has stated that Iran (a Shiite nation) is supporting Al-Qaeda (a Sunni group) in Iraq. This is not some minor mistake, but a significant gaffe. He clearly does not understand the sensitive political dynamics in that region of the world.
What’s worse is that he’s done it at important times when you’d expect him to be at his best — he did it today in the Senate while questioning the commander of American forces in Iraq, and he did it on a recent trip to the Middle East.
If John McCain can’t remember such a simple fact at crucial times, how will he be able to do it as President?
We have to stop John McCain from taking control of the White House, and stop him from taking over George Bush’s war in Iraq. Can you write a letter to the editor of your local paper letting voters in your area know just how confused John McCain is?
Once is misspeaking — five times is a dangerous lack of understanding. John McCain so badly misunderstands Iraq that he’s content to stay there for 100 years, something he’s said multiple times. He has also failed to explain how he would pay for a war that is now costing you and me $12 billion each month — money we could be using to help our economy here at home.
John McCain wants us to believe that his decades of foreign policy experience make him the natural choice to lead our nation at war with terrorists.
We just can’t afford someone who just doesn’t understand Iraq — it’s too dangerous.
I am Catholic.
I WANT Hagee to VOTE for McCain.
Yes, Hagee is on the fringe.
I tried to read one of his books, it is very poorly written.
However, McCain did NOT give $22,500.00 to Hagee’s church.
Obama DID give $22,500.00 to the nut job Pastor Wright.
Hagee did NOT take the racist anti semite Lewis Farrakhan with him on a trip to visit the terrorist leader Khaddafi, in Libya.
Obama’s Pastor Wright DID take his buddy, Farrakhan, with him to Libya.
McCain did not sit in Hagee’s church for 20 years.
McCain was not married in Hagee’s church.
McCain’s kids were not baptised in Hagee’s church.
This is not the same thing.
Not even close!
It shows that McCain will do anything in his quest to carry on the failed policies of the current administration. Need something / someone to sway a group of evangelicals? Go seek out a person who influences that group. Spend a year trying to get that endorsement. Obviously it is pandering. Obviously it means nothing more than, “I will do anything / be whomever you want be to be to get votes.” He will stand for anything AND everything since he stands for nothing. McCain is the whore.
JR
That is just flat wrong.
Obama was a politician before running for the US Senate.
Obama joined his church with politics in mind.
Obama stayed in his church with politics in mind.
Obama did NOTHING to seperate religion from politics.
In South Side Chicago, that is not a path that will win.
Here’s a suggestion. Why don’t all “you people” who can’t think for yourself and enjoy being brainwashed by the MSM go vote for McCain? That should solve your problems.
Econ/Paul,
Do you have a degree in mind reading? Just wondering, because you always seem to know what everybody has “in mind”.
McCain is the whore.
Why don’t all “you people” who can’t think for yourself and enjoy being brainwashed by the MSM go vote for McCain?
(chortles)
Hagee says Jesus isn’t and never was the “Messiah”. Yet ignorance still prevails among both the “Left” and “Right”.
I really need to stay away from here.
Louis Farrakhan in is Obama’s old State Senate District.
Farrakhan and Pastor Wright are very close friends.
There have been at least 20 homicides involving Black teenagers, in Chicago, in the last several months.
We know that Michelle Obama, Barrack Obama (read his book), Louis Farrakhan, Pastor Wright and other leaders of the Black voting block often blame White people for all of their troubles.
(Pastor Wright’s buddy, Louis Farrakhan, actually believes that White people are “devils” placed on Earth specifically to punish the Black man.)
Barrack Obama used to be a “neighborhood organizer” in South Side Chicago.
Did Obama ever try to fight the “don’t snitch” mentality that is killing so many Black kids?
Did Pastor Wright, Farrakhan (who received an award from Obama’s church), or Michelle Obama ever tell people to call the police, when they witness a murder?
I doubt it!
The “don’t snitch” mentality is responsible for more murders than the KKK!
http://www.cafepress.com/nosnitch
So far, I do not think Hagee’s speeches have killed anyone.
Telling young Black people not to trust White people, and telling young Black people to hate their government, DOES kill Black people!
http://teamowens313.wordpress.com/2007/04/23/dont-snitch-street-code-is-killing-black-kids/
Jackson and other Black leaders had NO trouble talking to the police, in order to catch James Earl Ray, after MLK was shot.
It is time for Black leaders in Chicago, like Obama and Wright, to do the same and urge cooperation with the police!
Pleefer
Hagee is not very good with the English language.
In Hagee’s defense, he was making the VALID claim that the Jews of that time wanted a political leader to SAVE them from the Romans, in a military and political sense.
Jesus DID reject that role.
Hagee wasn’t McCain’s pastor for 20 years!
#
Pleefer
Posted April 9, 2008 at 8:36 am | Permalink
Hagee says Jesus isn’t and never was the “Messiah”. Yet ignorance still prevails among both the “Left” and “Right”.
I really need to stay away from here.
————————————
Sounds like what Chas believes in.
You gonna condemn Chas as well Pfeefer? :D
“There have been at least 20 homicides involving Black teenagers, in Chicago, in the last several months.”
This is relevant, how?
Oh, I see, you’re blaming Obama and Rev. Wright for “don’t snitch” movement. What, you don’t have anything to back that up except your insane rantings?
Go wipe the foam off of your mouth Paul.
McCain spends a full year seeking the endorsement of someone he must then repudiate? That’s not the kind of “wisdom” I think serves Americans well. Someone with better judgment BEFORE THE FACT is who I want to be the leader of our country. We’ve already suffered through too many years of someone who isn’t smart enough to plan, and isn’t able to see beyond what he wants now, damn the consequences.
The adults will take over in 9 months, 13 days, 22 hours, 6 minutes.
Everyone’s made some valid points here.
And I’ll admit straight-up: As fond as I am of Obama, his pastor is a significant problem for me. I might not always have been this way – not in the early weeks of 1977, when the television event “Roots” awakened my conscience to unknown evil – past and present.
It’s a big frigging problem in the post-O.J. era – when a whole lotta African-Americans didn’t give a rastafarian’s a$$ about two butchered bodies. And a lot of them with whom I’ve worked (not necessarily here in Wichita but in other major cities) seem to think the world revolves around them.
Or that present-day Caucasians are responsible for the sins of their forefathers.
However, the Songbird has to ask herself: Who is best for the country – not “who does Songbird like the most?” or “whose pastor is least offensive?” Somehow, I can’t imagine Barack Obama emulating Garrett Morris’s old “SNL” skit (”I’m gonna git me a gun and kill all the whities I see…..”)
Or condemning all whites to watching “Shaft: The Honky Remake” for the rest of our lives. If he does, and I vote for him, I’ll be beyond remorse.
When Christians are taught to believe that this Jesus guy is the Deliverer, the Messiah and a “leader” of the Church says otherwise. Then what is the flock to believe? How can he )Hagee) be terrible with English, yet be the wealthy and astute orator that he is? I’m confused with religion.
The difference lies in Obama KNOWING what his pastor said and still supporting him enough to hire him to run his spiritual campaign.
That’s a good sight different from seeking the endorsement of a man whom you don’t hear on a regular basis.
Obama has no credibility. And he’s dangerous.
Linda, I’m not picking on you personally, I’m just picking up on this phrase:
“It shows that McCain will do anything in his quest to carry on the failed policies of the current administration.”
In his quest to win?
Funny, that is the SAME thing folks are using against Hillary. That she will do ANYTHING to win.
So… Obama wont? He’d rather lose than meet mccain blow for blow?
And he’s the presumptive nominee?
so… how do you obama supporters LIKE the sound of the term “president mccain”?
Sounds like obama would rather lose than do what it takes to win in these united states. mccain seems to not be afflicted with that notion. So… does that mean mccain is a shoo-in? Because he’s willing to do whatever it takes, and obama is not?
THAT’s why I want a fighter like Hillary. She can be nice after the election, but now? I’m afraid, thanks to the sound bite voters of this country, that if the democrats wanna win, they need to pull out all the stops.
Just like mccain…
Hillary WILL do what it takes to win. Obama? We’ll see.
heheheheh. And you wanna talk about PANDERING?
Seems obama is not so much burdened by those “principles” when it comes to the lgbt community. Can you say mcclurkin?
He gives mcclurkin a platform to preach for thirty minutes, lets him HEADLINE a fundraising event for evangelical blacks in South Carolina, but then conveniently contradicts that hateful preaching by saying he doesnt personally believe it?
Woof.
Seems like SOME groups obama doesnt mind pandering to. Others? Not so much. He’s more than willing to throw the lgbt community under the bus to pander to evangelicals. I guess he doesnt need our money. Or our time. Or our support.
Selective pandering. THAT ought to help in November.
I see NO difference in the hagee, wright, or mcclurkin incidents.
“Someone with better judgment BEFORE THE FACT is who I want to be the leader of our country.”
That is EXACTLY what I would have liked to have seen from obama BEFORE the mcclurkin love fest he sanctioned.
I mean, mcclurkin is very open about his hate and bigotry. It isnt like obama didnt KNOW about it before he invited mcclurkin to headline and preach. And it was brought to his attention BEFORE the event, and he STILL refused to ask mcclurkin to step aside. To correct his campaign mistake.
And he has YET to apologize for mcclurkin.
All this phoney outrage over hagee and wright and NONE over mcclurkin? I love it.
Hypocrisy, thy name is…
Would we want someone elected president who wants to lose?
The differences that matter should be what they are willing to do / say in order to win.
There are differences there for us to see.
Oranges to Apples!Comparing an endorsement from someone hardly compares to being active in a racist chuch.
Steven
Obama was a “community organizer” in Chicago, prior to serving in the State Legislature.
Has Obama ever urged young people to talk to the police, if they witness a murder?
Pastor Wright preaches hatred of the American Government.
Has Pastor Wright EVER told young people to call the police, if they witness a murder?
Econ101,
“Hagee did NOT take the racist anti semite Lewis Farrakhan with him on a trip to visit the terrorist leader Khaddafi, in Libya.
Obama’s Pastor Wright DID take his buddy, Farrakhan, with him to Libya.”
Indeed. Instead, Hagee blamed the Jews for having brought the Holocaust on themselves.
“Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of anti-Semitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come…. it rises from the judgment of God uppon his rebellious chosen people.” ["Jerusalem Countdown: A Prelude To War", paperback edition, pages 92 and 93]”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/aipac-cheers-an-antisemi_b_43377.html
So, Econ101, how is Hagee’s blaming the Jews for having caused the Holocaust not “anti-Semitic?” If there’s a more classical anti-Semitic slander than that one, I’d love to know what it is.
John McCain actively seeks the support of an anti-Semite who blames the Jews for having caused the Holocaust. To everybody but the most committed Wingnut, that presents a problem.
oh come on!
Hagee never sided with the Nazis or Hitler.
Hagee never said that the Holocaust was a “good thing” —
There have always been religious leaders who think that humans are rewarded or punished, in THIS LIFE for our actions.
There will always be religious leaders who think that entire groups are punished for the actions of a few in that group.
There will always be religious leaders who wish to “visit the sins of the parents upon their children” —(Reparations anyone?) —
I think that those leaders are WRONG, but that does not make those leaders hateful and it does not make them bigots.
Econ101,
You’re wrong: John Hagee DID say that the Holocaust was (in your words) “a good thing.”
“God then sent the hunters. The hunter is one who pursues his target with force and fear. No one could see the horror of the Holocaust coming, but the force and fear of Hitler’s Nazis drove the Jewish people back to the only home God ever intended for the Jews to have — Israel. I stand amazed at the accuracy of God’s Word and its relevance for our time. I am stricken with awe and wonder at His boundless love for Israel and the Jewish people and His divine determination that the promise He gave Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob become reality.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/aipac-cheers-an-antisemi_b_43377.html
So, let’s review: the Holocaust signifies God’s “boundless love for Israel,” and is seen by Hagee as “a good thing” insofar as it drove Jews out of Europe into Israel, where a certain reading of the prophetic tradition could be realized.
You’re wrong, Econ101. Plain and simple. Anti-Semitism doesn’t merely call for the extermination of the Jewish people, but is a strategy for characterizing Jewry as inherently reprobate. Farrakahn manifests the first type, Hagee the second: but you should stop pretending that both aren’t equally anti-Semitic.
CF
I do not agree with Hagee.
However, Hagee is NOT an anti-Semite.
The view that God can use both good and evil to achieve His purposes is not really that far off base.
Wright’s comments were hateful, inflammatory, provocative and more than a little nutty, but “racist”? Hardly. Only those who’d like to gloss over the very real, continuing injuries suffered by African-Americans could seriously characterize those comments as “racist.”
Hagee’s anti-semitism, on the other hand, seems to be quite open. Good thing McCain repudiated him, though; maybe he had a change of heart on his way to speak at Bob Jones University .
From the Cornerstone Church website:
The Lord Jesus Christ
We believe in the deity of Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God. We believe in His substitutionary death for all men, His resurrection, and His eventual return to judge the world.
Salvation
We believe all men are born with a sinful nature and that the work of the Cross was to redeem man from the power of sin. We believe that salvation is available to all who will receive it.
The Holy Spirit
We believe in the existence of the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Trinity and in His interaction with man. We believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as manifested by the fruit and gifts of the Spirit.
The Sacred Scripture
We believe in the scripture as the inspired Word of God and that it is the complete revelation of God’s will for mankind. We believe in the absolute authority of the scripture to govern the affairs of men.
Stewardship
We believe that every man is the steward of his life and resources, which ultimately belong to God. We believe that giving the tithe and offerings is a measure of obedience to the scriptural principles of stewardship.
The Church
We believe in the Church as the eternal and universal Body of Christ consisting of all those who have accepted the work of the atonement. We believe in the need for a local assembly of believers for the purposes of evangelization and edification.
Government of Twelve
Our Church is divided into small groups that meet in individual homes throughout the week. We believe that maximum spiritual growth and development come through membership in these groups. It is through these groups that evangelism outreach to our city and ministry to our members occurs.
Prayer and Praise
We believe in the worship of the Lord through singing, clapping, and the lifting of hands. We believe in the authority of the believer to ask freely of the Lord for his needs.
Church Body Ministry
We believe in the ministry of the Holy Spirit to the Church body through the anointing of oil by the elders of the church.
Evangelism
We believe that evangelism is the obligation of every follower of Jesus Christ. The Lord commands us to go out and make disciples in all of the Earth. We believe that each person is first responsible to evangelism in their own family as the Holy Spirit leads them and gives them the ability.
Water Baptism
We believe in the ordinance of water baptism by immersion in obedience to the Word of God. All those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior should be baptized in water as a public profession of their faith in Christ and to experience what the Bible calls the “circumcision of the Spirit”. Baptisms are conducted each Sunday in the evening service.
Our Commitment to Israel
We believe in the promise of Genesis 12:3 regarding the Jewish people and the nation of Israel. We believe that this is an eternal covenant between God and the seed of Abraham to which God is faithful. Our church sponsors a Night to Honor Israel to express our love and support for the State of Israel and the Jewish people.
The Priesthood of the Believer
We believe that every believer has a unique relationship to the Lord. As His children, every Christian has immediate access to the throne of Grace and the ability to manifest the power of the Lord Jesus Christ in ministry. Members of the Cornerstone Church are encouraged to find a place of ministry in the Body of Christ and utilize the gifts the Holy Spirit has placed within them.
Thanks Hank for posting the truth of the situation. So much has been said that is speculation that it is interesting to put the Mission Statement of Obama’s church alongside the statement of Hagee’s church and see what shakes out.
Here’s an interesting little piece about liberals and their “hidden” homophobia. Sounds like obama to me, but then, obama has done little to hide his homophobia. Just like hagee.
Throw all these religious nut cases in a bag, and you couldnt pick them out individually. But I love how they ALL claim the moral high ground.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×3129719
Reverend Jeremiah Wright – Former Muslim
See a pattern here? :)
A Reverend Philips put the problem to him squarely when he learned that Obama didn’t attend services. “It might help your mission if you had a church home,” he told Obama. “It doesn’t matter where, really. What you’re asking from pastors requires us to set aside some of our more priestly concerns in favor of prophesy. That requires a good deal of faith on our part. It makes us want to know just where you’re getting yours from.”After many lectures like this, Obama decided to take a second look at Wright’s church. Older pastors warned him that Trinity was for “Buppies”–black urban professionals–and didn’t have enough street cred. But Wright was a former Muslim and black nationalist who had studied at Howard and Chicago, and Trinity’s guiding principles — what the church calls the “Black Value System”–included a “Disavowal of the Pursuit of Middleclassness.’”
“The crosscurrents appealed to Obama. He came to believe that the church could not only compensate for the limitations of Alinsky-style organizing but could help answer the nagging identity problem he had come to Chicago to solve. “It was a powerful program, this cultural community,” he wrote, “one more pliant than simple nationalism, more sustaining than my own brand of organizing.”
http://bobmccarty.com/2008/04/08/rev-wright-was-a-former-muslim-and-other-news/
CF, honest question here, ’cause you know I love and respect you….
HOW can you support obama given the mcclurkin situation? HOW can you say hagee is bad because he is bigoted against jewish folks, but think it is ok for obama to have mcclurkin HEADLINE a fundraising event and preach for thirty minutes?
Is it ok to be homophobic, but not ok to be anti-Semitic?
PS–I think both homophobia and jew hating are wrong. I couldnt support obama’s endorsement by kirbyjon caldwell any more than I can support mccain’s endorsement by hagee.
Why is one “hold your nose” ok, but the other is not?
KFG thanks for pointing out once again that we have no good choices.
The answer CF won’t admit: “Because Obama is a Democrat.”
Just follow the Socialist Democrat party line!
Your welcome ksgrm. I’ve watched Hagee on a few ocasions and I’ve read his book “In Defense of Israel”.
He is not an ‘anti-semite’.
He is a protestant, therefore he would of course have problems with the Catholic Church. He does not and has not ever shown any ‘hate’ toward Catholics.
A conservative, Christian preacher. Ooooooh! Be afraid! Be very afraid!
democratunderground, huffingtonpost
Is this where you people go to be told what to think?
http://bobmccarty.com/2008/04/08/rev-wright-was-a-former-muslim-and-other-news/
Yes, James, on its face this looks like a real reputable site.
First we have our not so back-handed racism, “tired of Cinco De Mayo – get a Cinco De Mustard” T-shirt. Then a “hat tip” to Little Green Footballs.
There couldn’t possibly be any bias from that source…:)
I do have to wonder how long the brain-dead partisans from the Republic Party are going to be doing the “Obama is a Muslim” gig.
Calling the Catholic Church “The Great Whore” isn’t showing hate? I’d hate to hear your definition of the word then.
It might serve Hagee well if he reads the website of the church he founded before opening his mouth too many more times.
For the record, Farmie, having grown up in Texas, I heard “maricón” quite often. Got a different definition almost every time I asked for one. The most common though was m0th3r fu(k*r. I think it might just generic derogatory slang. That seems to be how I heard it used anyway.
Hagee works diligently towards the eradication of the Jews and lobbies politicians for war for the purpose of slaughtering Muslims. Naturally the press will give it a pass because he’s associated with McCain.
Ksfrmgrrl–
I don’t know what McClurkin said about gays. All I know is that you think it means he’s untouchable.
I do know what Obama said about gays. It’s exactly what you want him to say.
Hagee would not have a Bible to preach from, if NOT for the Catholic Church.
However, to a Catholic, Hagee is guilty of “idolotry” in that he worships an object: The Bible!
Where as Catholics use statues and paintings and such due to the fact that, for most of history, people have been illiterate and it helped to remind the faithful of the faith itself.
My “owners manual” in my glove box, does have a great deal to do with my car.
However, it does not tell you much about the actual art and skill of driving. It also does not tell you how to read a map.
“Peter, you are rock, and upon this rock I will build my church. Whatsoever you bind on Earth, shall be bound in Heaven, Whatsoever you loose on Earth, shall be loosed in Heaven” —
Jesus knew that he could not give moral guidance, 2,000 years ago, about situations that had not come to pass, and technology that had not even been invented.
Humble Catholics accept, to a point, the anti-Catholicism of Hagee and others, as the result of some justifiable revolt against Catholic interpretation of faith, as such right of interpretation was granted to Peter and the succession of Popes.
The Catholic Church abused its favored position.
Very much like the Biblical Nation of Israel did, in its day.
Just as Adam and Eve did, in the Genesis.
Pointing out natural human failure does not mean that anyone hates any particular class of humans.
Jesus was Jewish.
Martin Luther was Catholic.
Henry the 8th was Catholic.
Christians who bash Jews or Catholics are not very grateful people.
Yeah sol, and “jota” as well.
Hatred and denigration in any language is offensive.
Captain, I’ve posted links to mcclurkin’s hatred before. Is your google broken? If you dont know about him, it’s because you dont want to know about him.
And…
I know what obama says. And I know what he does.
I’ll take actions over words for five hundred, Alex.
Doesnt McClurkin claim that he, McClurkin, USED TO BE GAY?
Is that something that some of you can not tolerate?
Someone who decides to change?
ksfarmgrrl
Posted April 9, 2008 at 11:07 am | Permalink
Hatred and denigration in any language is offensive.
______________________________________________
Agreed. But my point was I don’t think Richardson was being neither homophobic nor anti-gay.
Double negative. Duh. You know what I mean.
Econ, that is one of the most retarded statements I’ve ever seen from you. Congratulations, reviewing most of your comments, to get even more retarded is quite the feat. Even for you.
sigh
nice company you keep there captain
google “donnie mcclurkin + killing our children”
see what ya get
anyone who doesnt know the truth about mcclurkin and what he preached at the obama fundraiser is just being willfully ignorant.
I’ve been posting about this since october. I’m not offended by your obvious scrolling over of said posts.
I am offended by willful ignorance, false justifications, and saying one form of bigotry is ok, but another is not. Supporters here have obviously weighed things out, and decided the mcclurkin hatred is not a deal breaker. Hell, monkey even said so.
I’m just asking an honest question. Some of you all who are bagging on mccain about hagee, and I agree with you, need to ALSO take a look at your candidate.
hagee, wright, mcclurkin, terry, joe, fred, it’s all the same. You cant complain about one if you wont complain about all. And there is a BIG difference between unsolicited endorsements and invitations to actively campaign and raise money.
If you dont see the difference?
Willful ignorance
Okay, Ksfrmgrrl.
I googled McClurkin and I got “realclearpolitics” which is about as right-wing nastay as you can get.
What I found is two things:
1. “Donnie McClurkin, a black gospel singer considered anti-gay by a segment of the gay community for saying he ‘overcame’ his homosexuality and says others can do so.”
2. Someone on his staff set this up, probably without his knowledge.
*****
Obama isn’t a hater. Just because he disagrees with someone, he doesn’t shun them forever.
Maybe we should try it sometime.
I do know what Obama said about gays. It’s exactly what you want him to say.
Yup. Say anything to get elected. Glad you support that in a candidate capn.
Sollie, excuse me?
He used the term faggot. It’s how HE translated maricon.
Wow. Would you be so culturally tolerant if it had been the “n” word?
’cause ya know in the south, it’s common usage…
Captain, your willful ignorance is not attractive.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=donnie+mcclurkin+%2B+killing+our+children&btnG=Google+Search
Set up by staff without his knowledge?
I see where you get the willful ignorance strategy.
I guess that would explain why he STILL hasnt apologized. Why, when it came to his attention, he didnt cancel mcclurkin.
Whatever. Your acceptance of homophobic barack supporters just flies in the face of this hagee thing.
Deny all you want. We see it.
“McCain has since repudiated Hagee”
I guess, captain, that should make it all ok.
I mean, since obama has repudiated mcclurkin too.
(Big eye roll…)
Replying in Spanish, Richardson laughed: “I believe that Bernard, yes, he’s a faggot if he thinks I am not Hispanic.”
Doesn’t say who translated it. If you read the piece above, it looks like the author decided what the translation was.
Bill Richardson used the word maricón, Spanish slang for “faggot,”
If jota translates to lesbian then joto would translate to faggot. I have heard joto and jota frequently as well.
Whatever. Read into it whatever you like.
Steven Davis
Posted April 9, 2008 at 10:43 am | Permalink
I do have to wonder how long the brain-dead partisans from the Republic Party are going to be doing the “Obama is a Muslim” gig.
Actually Steven it is Lanny Davis singing that mantra. You do know who he is don’t you? A Clinton apologist and active participamt in Hillary’s campaign.
“The Human Rights Campaign, the country’s most prominent gay rights group, has just condemned the Obama campaign for its planned use of an antigay singer at a campaign gospel event, potentially turning what started out as a small controversy on the blogs into an enduring political headache.
“I spoke with Sen. Barack Obama today and expressed to him our community’s disappointment for his decision to continue to remain associated with Rev. McClurkin, an anti-gay preacher who states the need to ‘break the curse of homosexuality,’” Human Rights Campaign President Joe Solomonese said in a statement sent out moments ago. “
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2007/10/big_gay_group_condemns_obama_for_campaign_event_with_antigay_singer.php
How much a candidate’s preacher/mentor/endorsee pisses you off is directly proportional to your hatred of the candidate.
Ted’s rule.
You guys who think mcclurkin is no big deal havent tried very hard with the google.
I think this is the REAL reason obama’s aides made a decision and mcclurkin stayed on as m.c.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/10/29/post_159.html
Yep sol. A deliberate choice was made between pissing off the black evangelicals in South Carolina and pissing off the gay community. More of them. Fewer of us.
Do anything to win?
Votes. Money. Both parties.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
“Actually Steven it is Lanny Davis singing that mantra.”
I’m sure you have one, but link, please?
More of them. Fewer of us.
-KFG
Democracy tends to favor the majority.
Hey Farmie, didn’t you have a link to a youtube piece that captured his rant at the Obama function? That might clear things up. No one can claim a left/right/or gay leaning website. It is the a$$hole’s own words coming from his own mouth.
Didn’t Obama even introduce him for his rant?
Yeah, rfl. That’s why I think all this high horsing about how obama would NOT say or do “anything” to win is just horse hockey.
They will ALL say or do anything to win. If they wont, they shouldnt be running. They will be at a serious disadvantage against the more ruthless candidate.
Who said you can never go wrong underestimating the american voter?
Just like negative ads. Everyone polled says they hate them. And all the polls also show they work.
The high road, AND a quarter will get you coffee at the local drug store. I wish it were not true, but to say that either side is above the mud is simply nonsense.
It seems to me that these days, the most crap thrown wins. So just take that high road and watch the biggest crap thrower appoint the next supremes.
And THAT is the cold, hard reality.
Sol, I’m on a borrowed computer right now as my old gray mare is in the shop :) The computer I’m on doesnt have enough umph to access youtube.
But if someone wanted to find it, they could.
They just dont want to. And they dont want to talk about how little difference there is between mclame and hagee and obama and mccloset.
I cant open this link right now, but I think this might have the mcclurkin rant, and some info about obama and kirbyjon caldwell.
It’s a pattern for obama.
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4272
I submitted a post that is under review. In it, I admit my mistake, the word does translate as Farmie has said. I was wrong.
I also linked to a page that had Richardson apologizing.
My bad Farmie.
That democracy favoring the majority thingy is also why you’ll NEVER get a science debate.
Surely you know, that whipping out yer faith and measuring whose is bigger will ALWAYS get more votes than a logical debate about science.
Like I said, hagee, mcclurkin, terry, joe, fred… were nailed by John Prine. “pretty good, not bad, I cant complain, but actually, all them god’s are just about the same”.
It’s ok sol. I make mistakes here too :)
It’s NOT ok though to make mistakes, have them pointed out, and then deny until you die!
Lanny Spreads ‘The Poison’
Posted by TOM BEVAN | E-Mail This | Permalink | Email Author
Clintonite Lanny Davis expresses his discomfort with Obama’s relationship with Rev. Wright in the Wall Street Journal:
Some have suggested that any Clinton supporters who continue to raise this issue are “playing the race card” or taking the “low” road.
When I said on CNN recently that concerns about the Wright-Obama issue were “appropriate” to continue to be discussed, my friend Joe Klein of Time Magazine said, “Lanny, Lanny, you’re spreading the poison right now” and that an “honorable person” would “stay away from this stuff.”
Could Joe Klein provide any better example of the liberal elitist mindset and how disconnected it is from the real world? Rev. Wright is on tape spewing some pretty vile anti-American stuff from the pulpit, yet Klein accuses Davis of being the one “spreading the poison” for having the temerity to question whether it was appropriate for Barack Obama to sit silent in the pews of Trinity United for 20 years. You see, Joe Klein, in his infinite progressive wisdom, has declared this subject off limits, and apparently anyone who thinks otherwise is dishonorable, a bigot, a racist, or worse.
Davis continues with a fair warning to Klein and other Democrats:
Attacking the motives of those who feel this discomfort about Senator Obama’s response or nonresponse to Reverend Wright’s comments is not just unfair and wrong. It also misses the important electoral point about winning the general election in November: This issue is not going away. If many loyal, progressive Democrats remain troubled by this issue, then there must be even more unease among key swing voters – soft “Reagan Democrats,” independents and moderate Republicans – who will decide the 2008 election.
Davis is probably overstating his case when he suggests “many loyal, progressive Democrats remain troubled by this issue.” I don’t think we’ve seen much evidence of that at all. In fact, the polls seem to indicate the opposite. But I do think Davis is correct when he warns about the potential fallout among Reagan Democrats and Independents, and he’s absolutely right that the issue is not going away. As sure as the sun rises in the East, a Republican-leaning 527 is going to use Rev. Wright against Obama in the general.
This may offend Joe Klein’s political sensibilities, but it’s clearly within bounds. To most people, Obama’s twenty year relationship with Rev. Wright (not to mention his long association with shady dealer Tony Rezko) goes directly to the question of Obama’s much-touted judgment.
Were the shoe on the other foot, of course, and the issue was John McCain’s close, two-decade long relationship with a right-wing preacher with a history of saying offensive things from the pulpit, Joe Klein would almost certainly find that a legitimate topic germane to McCain’s presidential bid. And he would scoff at those who suggested discussing the matter constituted “spreading the poison.”
I heard him on a talk show. He has been on several in the last few days and this has been his message. The reference to “muslim” is missing from this article but was mentioned in his discussion.
Sorry not to have a link but hard to do with the spoken word.
My point is that most of the Obama/Wright criticisim is coming from the left.
From Farmie’s link:
McClurkin’s war on homosexuality
“I can’t let off. I didn’t call myself — God called me to do what I do,” McClurkin told The Post’s Hamil R. Harris. The Grammy winner declared, “If this is a war, we are willing to fight. Not a war of violence, but a war of purpose.”
http://www.republicoft.com/2007/10/22/why-oh-why-obama/
“I heard him on a talk show. He has been on several in the last few days and this has been his message. The reference to “muslim” is missing from this article but was mentioned in his discussion.”
So then.. you dont have a link to Lanny Davis saying that obama is a muslim.
Thanks for clearing that up. Being uncomfortable with wright is a LOT different than saying someone is a muslim.
I actually agree with the article you posted. But still no link to it? I’d just like to read it for myself.
My searches are limited until the cast comes off. Seven days and counting.
“Surely you know, that whipping out yer faith and measuring whose is bigger will ALWAYS get more votes than a logical debate about science”
How much faith do you have that every “plausible explanation” issued by a scientist must be acted upon without any thought to it’s ramifications?
Take ethanol for example. We understand that ethanol is a no gainer for humans (except for Big Ag), yet it was proffered by politicians (and former ones such as Al Gore) as a means to lower CO2 emissions while winning votes from “Big Ag” farmers.
So we transfer wealth from Big Oil to Big Ag, cause food prices to rise, water shortages to become likely, have less energy because of it and call ourselves scientific for bending to the will of the IPCC scientists.
Yeah, faith is more popular than logic.
Well grmie, I’m sorry you are in a cast, but you had to get YOUR post from somewhere. You cant give me a link to that? I could do it with one hand.
“So we transfer wealth from Big Oil to Big Ag, cause food prices to rise, water shortages to become likely, have less energy because of it and call ourselves scientific for bending to the will of the IPCC scientists.”
Hmmmmm… switch big oil to big coal….
And we could just build the holcomb plant for sunflower and accomplish ALL the same things!
“It seems to me that these days, the most crap thrown wins. So just take that high road and watch the biggest crap thrower appoint the next supremes.
That is indeed a danger.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/winning_ugly_in_wisconsin.html
This is truly disgusting. It is also not surprising.
That being said, taking the high road can work as long as you reply specifically to any charge. The problem I have with the Wright sliming, or for that matter the Hagee attack on McCain, is that there is no reason to think that either candidate agrees with the pastor in question. As I’ve pointed out about Obama and Wright, look…at…what…Obama…says…even when he is crediting Wright as an influence.
As for the McClurkin incident, Obama was warned, they went ahead with him anyway. That’s why I consider this more serious than the Wright issue (because the criticism comes from people unfamiliar with black liberation theology-Wright has said some dumb and offensive things-but he is not the racist the right wing shills here want to make him out to be). That being said, I think the other campaigns (including Hillary’s) have made comparable blunders.
And ksgrm, your posted story is just plain garbage, just the sort of thing one would expect from the post Murdoch Wall Street Journal (and for that matter, the original Wall Street Journal). The critic is a “Hillary operative”, and his comments are being relayed by a right leaning publication. Obama has dealt more directly with Wright’s comments than most candidates have done when confronted with such an issue (including Obama himself with McClurkin).
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/04/09/girly_men/
Interesting.
Ksagnostic, with all due respect, obama’s actions and words do not match. Yes, we hear his words. He disagrees with mcclurkin and wright. But his actions?
He attended wright’s church for twenty years. And he made a decision to keep mcclurkin and let him m.c. and preach.
I still say actions speak louder than words. I dont want another bush who SAYS one thing, but DOES another.
It is a point of order, Wrights statements had to be brought to light while Hagee has written several books and appeared on TV spouting his rhetoric. He was even feature in CNN special “God’s Warriors” where he stated both his undying devotion to Israel so much so he would rather see the end of the United States if it meant the survival of Israel. But he also believes in the end times, that it is the duty of all Christians.
To kill any Jew who does not convert to Christianity. Which does not set well with the Jews and the Israelis are asking why if he feels that way would they want his support?
But this has been so hashed out in the past that there really is nothing new to say. Both have chosen their association and both will have that cross to bare.
KFG, just wanted to let you know that John Prine will be on Austin City Limits next Sunday. Hopefully your PBS channel is the same as here.
“But he also believes in the end times, that it is the duty of all Christians.
To kill any Jew who does not convert to Christianity.
———
WD: You might want to check your facts.
outlander,
Yeah, facts are such malleable things–in your hands, at least.
Oh, hi CF. Good afternoon to you, too!
ksfarmgrrl,
Sorry my response has taken a while. I got very busy for a couple of hours there, and I also wanted to Google back through my posts, because for some reason I remembered having posted in condemnation of Obama’s noxious embrace of Donnie McClurkin.
As it happens, I either never did make such a post, or simply can’t locate it using Google. So I’ll say it: Donnie McClurkin is a homophobic sack of shit, and Barack Obama made the vile calculation that embracing him would win votes among homophobes. Everybody should hold Obama’s feet to the fire on this and not left him off with lame-ass excuses. For him to have done so in light of his campaign themes and public persona is rank and noxious hypocrisy.
Having said that, though, ksfarmgrrl, I find myself in the double-bind of having as an alternative a candidate who I judge as having played on negative African-American stereotypes in order to advance herself with bigoted voting blocs in the big Democratic tent. So if I am to reject one of them for using homophobic bigotry, I find myself unable to embrace the other who has resorted to racist bigotry. Their transgressions cancel one another out.
You have a good memory, ksfarmgrrl, because the only time I recall having voiced a preference for Obama was in the context of the Kansas Caucuses. Then, I said that I would caucus for Edwards (mrcontroversy joined me, by the way), and would, if pressed, caucus for Obama. That I did.
Since then, I have assiduously stayed out of the discussions here regarding both candidates for the Democratic nomination. In the event that either candidate wins the nomination, I want to be able to offer my full support.
Because, in the end, any Democrat is exponentially better than any Republican. Period. The last decade has demonstrated to me that, to put it simply, Republicans are the sworn enemies of the Constitution, the rule of law, and America herself. They must be destroyed as a party and not permitted to return to power at any level of government, local, state of national. And whatever Democrat is elected to the White House must be harried mercilessly and implacably to reassert the standards of constitutionality.
So those are my reasons, ksfarmgrrl. It does grieve me to have no other options, and I sincerely don’t believe that the reasons for my preference come down to regarding homophobia as less serious than racism. I could, of course, be wrong about that, and it is certainly possible that I’m in denial or am fooling myself.
But I would ask you take me at my word that I’m not terribly enthusiastic about either candidate, that my motive is not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and that I’m simply choosing on the basis of who, for reasons that I will keep to myself, I think would be a stronger candidate come November. Should this person not win, whoever wins the nomination can count on my enthusiastic and unqualified support. Period.
And now, as promised, is something I want EVERY one of my Democratic brothers and sisters to read and think over as seriously as possible. This is Immanuel Kant from his essay, “Perpetual Peace.”
**************************************************
“6. “No State Shall, during War, Permit Such Acts of Hostility Which Would Make Mutual Confidence in the Subsequent Peace Impossible: Such Are the Employment of Assassins (percussores), Poisoners (venefici), Breach of Capitulation, and Incitement to Treason (perduellio) in the Opposing State”;
These are dishonorable stratagems. For some confidence in the character of the enemy must remain even in the midst of war, as otherwise no peace could be concluded and the hostilities would degenerate into a war of extermination (bellum internecinum). War, however, is only the sad recourse in the state of nature (where there is no tribunal which could judge with the force of law) by which each state asserts its right by violence and in which neither party can be adjudged unjust (for that would presuppose a juridical decision); in lieu of such a decision, the issue of the conflict (as if given by a so-called “judgment of God”) decides on which side justice lies. But between states no punitive war (bellum punitivum) is conceivable, because there is no relation between them of master and servant.
It follows that a war of extermination, in which the destruction of both parties and of all justice can result, would permit perpetual peace only in the vast burial ground of the human race. Therefore, such a war and the use of all means leading to it must be absolutely forbidden. But that the means cited do inevitably lead to it is clear from the fact that these infernal arts, vile in themselves, when once used would not long be confined to the sphere of war. Take, for instance, the use of spies (uti exploratoribus). In this, one employs the infamy of others (which can never be entirely eradicated) only to encourage its persistence even into the state of peace, to the undoing of the very spirit of peace.”
http://www.constitution.org/kant/perpeace.htm
Sol Dev
Since everyone on this thread is getting offended at someone or something — let me tell you that use of the word “retarded” is offensive.
Especially to those of us who have mentally retarded relatives.
Clean up YOUR act, ok?
let me tell you that use of the word “retarded” is offensive.
Your bad. You thought I cared if I offended you.
Sol Dev
So, your politics boil down to:
“If you offend me, I can gripe about it and pass laws about it and vote against candidates, because of it, but me? Well, I do not want to be civil and I will offend anyone I want to offend, for no good purpose other than the sport of being offensive!”
I am sure, Sol Dev, that you will get lots of converts you your cause with that attitude!
Keep it up!
Well Outlander, I hate it when I read or watch something and then can not find it again. I had thought it was on God’s Warriors. But after watching the part about Christian warriors the close that Hagee said was that Israel must be defended at all costs. I read some much that I remember reading it but not where I read it.
So with out the prove I withdraw my statement.
Sorry, KSFrmGrrl and CF.
I have to continue to respectfully disagree.
Here’s from KSFrmGrrl’s link:
In Columbia last night, a crowd of more than 3,000 in a packed auditorium cheered and clapped during speeches from Obama aides and taped videos of the Senator and his wife, neither of whom attended, but leaped up for applause and cell phone pictures when McClurkin was introduced. A gay South Carolina pastor, Andy Sidden, gave the prayer that opened the event, a compromise the Obama campaign put together after McClurkin’s appearance was attacked by gay rights activists. Sidden’s prayer noted the importance of people of all races, backgrounds and sexual orientations coming together.
But McClurkin, who won a Grammy in 2004 for his gospel music and is also the pastor of an evangelical church in New York, quickly became the star of the night, which was the conclusion of three gospel concerts the campaign held around the state. McClurkin essentially acted as the emcee of the event, introducing the other gospel artists who performed, and then took the stage for the last hour. In between sermonizing, singing, and raving about Obama, McClurkin repeatedly defended himself.
“I just said yes,” he said of his invitation by the Obama campaign. “I didn’t know so much was going to happen. I didn’t know my yes was going to mean I was misunderstood and vilified. . . Sometimes people can take your words and do this with them,” he said, making a twisting motion with his hands as the crowd shouted Amens and cheered for him.
After another song, he specially addressed the issue of homosexuality, saying he had been “touched by the same feelings.”
“Don’t call me a bigot or anti-gay,’ he said. “Don’t call me a homophobe, because I love everybody . . . Let me tell you something, the grace of God is given to all men,” he said to loud applause.
*****
Again, I see Ksfrmgrrl calling McClurkin homophobic. I don’t see evidence of it myself.
Also, Obama wasn’t even at the event.
Sheesh.
Perfection remains the enemy of the good.
Hagee:
On the Catholic Church– “A Godless theology of hate that no one dared try to stop for a thousand years produced a harvest of hate.”
“Adolf Hitler attended a Catholic school as a child and heard all the fiery antisemitic rantings from Chrysostom to Martin Luther. When Hitler became a global demonic monster, the Catholic Church and Pope Pius XII never, ever slightly criticized him. Pope Pius XII, called by historians ‘Hitler’s Pope,’ joined Hitler in the infamous Concordat of Collaboration, which turned the youth of the [sic] Germany over to Nazism, and the churches became the stage background for the bloodthirsty cry, ‘Pereat Judea’[21]…. In all of his [Hitler's] years of absolute brutality, he was never denounced or even scolded by Pope Pius XII or any Catholic leader in the world.”
“The evidence would point to Rome…It was Rome where Nero wrapped Christians in oily rags and hung them on lampposts, setting them ablaze to light his gardens. It was Rome that orchestrated the Crusades where Jews were slaughtered…It was Rome that orchestrated the Inquisitions throughout the known world where “heretics” were burned at the stake or pulled in half on torture racks because they were not Roman Catholic.”
On the Jewish Holocaust–
“It was the disobedience and rebellion of the Jews, God’s chosen people, to their covenantal responsibility to serve only the one true God, Jehovah, that gave rise to the opposition and persecution that they experienced beginning in Canaan and continuing to this very day… Their own rebellion had birthed the seed of antisemitism that would arise and bring destruction to them for centuries to come…. it rises from the judgment of God upon his rebellious chosen people.”
On Hurricane Katrina and homosexuality–
Hagee said Hurricane Katrina was an act of God, punishing New Orleans for “a level of sin that was offensive to God.” He referred to a “homosexual parade” held on the date the hurricane struck and this was proof “of the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans.”
Endorsement–
A video of John McCain at a Houston town hall meeting shows him stating, “I was pleased to have the endorsement of Pastor John Hagee yesterday.”[35]
http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/04/lanny_spreads_the_poison.html
Farmgrl my bad. Rushing to ab appointment.
Cap’n, I don’t think Obama is a homophobe (his whole history, going back to the state Senate, refutes that) but come on now.
Clinton had just won New Hampshire. Obama had to win South Carolina, or his support would start drying up. Whether or not it was planned, I think it’s quite plausible that he allowed this nut to continue ranting under his banner because a political calculation was made by his team that he gained more support allowing it to continue than he would if he made a high-profile condemnation (like with Jeremiah Wright). He judged that simply reminding people of his “disagreement” with the man would be enough.
And, unfortunately, he was right.
I think whether he would “throw the gay community under the bus” is a legitimate question. I don’t think it’s an answer. Unfortunately, it gets back to Bill Clinton, who kept an admirable campaign promise his first week of office, only to cave in almost completely to the gay-bashers during his presidency.
What would President Obama do? Yes, we know he takes human-friendly positions (with the exception of his chickenshit opposition to “gay marriage”–a position Hillary also has).
So my question is: What degree of commitment will he show on these issues? No, I don’t believe for a minute that he’ll turn out to be a flaming homophobe, but. . . how important is it to him? Is it fundamental principle–or a bargaining chip?
This man taught constitutional law. He knows better, or should. I think it’s important for everyone– especially his supporters–to not give him a “free ride” on this.
the difference here is pastor wright is obama’s mentor, (a wise and trusted counselor or teacher. )
hagee is just an “endorser” of McCains campaign. McCain does not aspire to emulate hagee as a person would aspire to emulate his/her mentor.
ksagnostic
Posted April 9, 2008 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
And ksgrm, your posted story is just plain garbage, just the sort of thing one would expect from the post Murdoch Wall Street Journal (and for that matter, the original Wall Street Journal). The critic is a “Hillary operative”, and his comments are being relayed by a right leaning publication. Obama has dealt more directly with Wright’s comments than most candidates have done when confronted with such an issue (including Obama himself with McClurkin).
Yep Agnos it came from the real left leaning Real Clear Politics, a product of Time and CNN. Does your foot get stuck in your mouth often?
http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/04/lanny_spreads_the_poison.html
For those of you interested in fairness, Hagee’s response to allegations of being anti-Catholic. Excerpt is from the website of “Christians United for Israel” which he founded.
Response from Pastor Hagee to charges of “Anti-Catholicism”- March 26, 2008
I feel the need after days of media misrepresentation to respond to slanderous accusations about being a religious bigot. It is truly disappointing to me to see how quickly accusation and rumor crystallize into fact in the hands of media outlets, which do not seem interested in subjecting these claims to serious review in search of the truth.
I know that those of you here today know better than to believe everything you hear on the television or read in the newspaper. I want to thank you for your trust and your faith in me as evidenced by your many cards, letters and phone calls of support at home and across America. The main claim my critics are making is that I am anti-catholic and that I have made derogatory statements about the Catholic Church.
Anyone who knows anything about me, my life’s work and this church, knows how utterly false this accusation is. Nonetheless, let me state my position as clearly as I can. I am not now, nor have I ever been anti-Catholic. Cornerstone Church has operated a social services center for more than 20 years where we feed the hungry and clothe the needy five days a week. The vast majority of those who benefit from this ministry are Catholic.
I personally supported a convent for over ten years providing complimentary housing for elderly, retired nuns. Many of you remember the day of honor that we had for those nuns in this church for their lifetime of service to God. These are not the acts of someone who is anti-Catholic. I have dedicated most of my adult life to eradicating anti-Semitism from Christianity.
As part of this effort, I have criticized the past anti-Semitism of the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church. In fact, I rarely speak about Christian anti-Semitism without denouncing the founder of Protestantism, Martin Luther, whose book, “concerning the Jews and their lies” was a poisoned well of anti-Semitism. Calling Christians to account for our past anti-Semitism does not make me anti-Catholic and it does not make me Anti-Protestant. It simply makes me an opponent of anti-Semitism.
Throughout my life, I have often taught from the Book of Revelation. During these teachings, I have read to you the Apostle John’s writings about the great whore of Revelation 17. In my writings, I have never stated that the great whore is the Catholic Church. Quite to the contrary, the Book Revelation teaches clearly that the great whore will be an apostate church made up of all Christians from all denominations that stray from the path of God and embrace a godless lifestyle including the sin of anti-Semitism.
The media attacks have expanded to include the accusation that I am also anti-gay. The Bible clearly teaches that homosexuality is not a righteous lifestyle. But this doesn’t mean that I and the millions of other bible-believing Christians are hateful toward the gay community. The Bible teaches that there are many sins and that all of us are guilty of committing sin at some point in time.
Does this mean that I hate you, that I hate myself or anyone who comes short of the Glory of God? No, on the contrary. Christ teaches us to love one another, as I have loved you. We follow Christ’ example; we hate the sin and we love the sinner. As most of you know, two years ago, I founded Christians United for Israel. I believed then and believe now that Israel’s friends dare not be silent when Israel is facing such serious threats to her existence.
Ever since I started speaking out for Israel, I have come under intense scrutiny and increasing attack. I did not plan to spend this period of my life in the middle of a political fire storm. Rest assured I will not shrink from our work on behalf of Israel.
I will continue to stand with Israel in the future. (Applause) Thank you very much. Thank you.
It is the work of God for such a time as this. I will continue to preach an uncompromising Gospel and continue to speak out when I feel that my love for America and the State of Israel and the Jewish people deserve it, even when it is not politically correct. I want to thank you all for your confidence in me and your support of me. It means more to me than you know. I have received many messages of support from church members, ministry partners, political leaders, and friends in the community and from across America.
http://cufi.convio.net/site/PageServer?pagename=learn_teachings
Appears duh Libs got smacked down with the truth and facts yet once again.
Cap’n, I don’t think Obama is a homophobe
Considering Obama’s Muslim background and his schooling as a Muslim, he most likely is strongly homophobic – it’s part of the culture of Islam.
CF, thanks for your thoughtful response. I also remember, and almost mentioned, that Edwards was your first choice, obama second.
I dont agree with you on your assessment of Hillary playing the race card. Imho, it was obama who did such in South Carolina, forced her to respond, and ever after, almost any mention of racial truths draw cries of outrage from the obama camp that she or Bill are playing the racism card. It wears thin, and loses its effectiveness over time, and I dont think it will play well in November. Republicans generally dont MIND being called racist. He’s gonna hafta come up with a better strategy.
I am sure we could both find examples to support our positions. Out of respect for you, I’m not gonna do tit for tat. You have your opinion of the matter and I have mine.
Thanks for your support on the mcclurkin issue.
And captain, I think your Hillary hatred is so great that you will defend obama even when he is clearly wrong. If you seriously think mcclurkin is anything BUT a homophobe, I gotta ask…
WTF color is the sky in YOUR world?
“it’s part of the culture of Islam.”
Another right wing yahoo trying to claim that Barack Obama is a Muslim……… What a dumbass.
I’m still laughing at the captain posting about how mcclurkin is not a homophobe, and in the very next post, bags on hagee and mccain for their arrangement.
WTF?
Does all that tight spinning in such a short amount of sppace and time make you dizzy? I guess I hafta plan those kind of hypocritical moments…
“Appears duh Libs got smacked down with the truth and facts yet once again.”
Then, on the very next posts, McCluer posts the Obama – secret Muslim meme.
Truth and facts – a foreign concept to Republicans.
Sorry, but I gotta say one more thing on the subject. If we are going to say “obama disagrees with mcclurkin, look at his voting record”…
Then we gotta say “look at Hillary’s voting record on race related issues.” Look at her advocacy, and Bill’s advocacy over the years. It’s hard to overlook that kind of being on the right side of racial issues over that many years.
So if we look at voting records and advocacy for obama on gay issues, we gotta do the same for Hillary on racial issues. She’s 100%
reg, really. seriously. Why would you repeat a proven lie? Repeatedly?
One of the main differences between McCain and Obama is this:
Obama has been led to God by Jeremiah Wright.
Obama has been attending Trinity UCC for 30 years.
Obama is a close friend of Wright.
Wright is a spiritual mentor to Obama.
“One of the main differences between McCain and Obama is this:”
Obama is as intelligent, articulate individual that graduated near the top of his class at Harvard Law School.
McCain, on the other had, barely got through his time at the Naval Academy, graduating in the bottom five or six of his class.
McCain is an idiot that wants to be president so we can have “many more wars” and a 100 year occupation of Iraq.
“ksfarmgrrl” –
I understand implicitly and explicitly your objection to Obama based on the McLurkin factor.
I think you might be blowing it out of proportion, but who am I to determine proportion anyway? My ex- ended up voting against a lot of pretty good people merely because they didn’t share exactly precisely her views on reproductive rights.
I’m not sure one campaign appearance on the same stage that McClurkin appeared taints all that encompasses Obama’s candidacy, but if that’s how things cook for you, solid.
It just seems like a very narrowed view. In some ways it’s what Thomas Frank talked about in “What’s the Matter with Kansas.” Some people will single out an inflamatory issue and vote it even it’s against their overall best interests.
C’est la Vie.
#
ksfarmgrrl
Posted April 9, 2008 at 4:52 pm | Permalink
reg, really. seriously. Why would you repeat a proven lie? Repeatedly?
————————
I’m unconvinced that Obama’s upbringing in his formative years in the Islamic Nation of Indonesia has not also formed the elements of his character and assessment of matters. See article below:
————————
The Senator from Illinos, Barak Hussein Obama, the not so reformed Muslim
“On February 27th, speaking to Kristof of The New York Times, Barack Hussein Obama said the Muslim call to prayer is “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”
In an interview with Nicholas Kristof, published in The New York Times, Obama recited the Muslim call to prayer, the Adhan, “with a first-class [Arabic] accent.”
The opening lines of the Adhan (Azaan) is the Shahada:
“Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet….”
According to Islamic scholars, reciting the Shahada, the Muslim declaration of faith, makes one a Muslim. This simple yet profound statement expresses a Muslim’s complete acceptance of, and total commitment to, the message of Islam. Obama chanted it with pride and finesse.”
On Feb 15/08, Usama K. Dakdok, President of The Straight Way of Grace Ministry called Obama’s Church and reported the following conversation: ” I then asked the person who answered what I needed to do to join. She told me that I needed to attend two Sunday School classes in a row and then I would walk the aisle. I replied, “That sounds easy. One last question please. If I am Muslim and I believe in the Prophet Mohammed, peace be unto him and I also believe in Jesus, peace be unto him, do I have to give up my Islamic faith to be a member in your church? She answered: “No, we have many Muslim members in our church.”
In Kenya while he was a Senator, Obama stumped for his cousin, opposition leader Raila Odinga, the son of Senior’s sister, a direct first cousin and nephew of Obama’s father.
On August 29, 2007, Raila Odinga and Shiekh Abdullah Abdi, chairman of the National Muslim Leaders Forum of Kenya signed a Memorandum of Understanding in which it pledges the support of Kenyan Moslems for Raila’s election. In return, as President of Kenya, Raila agrees … within 6 months re-write the Constitution of Kenya to recognize Shariah as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Quran for Muslim declared regions [and] within one year to facilitate the establishment of a Shariah court in every Kenyan divisional headquarters — everywhere in Kenya, not just in “Muslim declared regions” — and to popularize Islam, the only true religion … by ordering every primary school in Kenya in the regions to conduct daily Madrassa classes.”
Amiris, now the manager of Bank Mandiri, Jakarta, recently said, “Barry was previously quite religious in Islam. His birth father, Barack Hussein Obama was a Muslim economist from Kenya. Before marrying Ann Dunham, Hussein Obama was married to a woman from Kenya who had seven children. All the relatives of Barry’s father were very devout Muslims”
Emirsyah Satar, CEO of Garuda Indonesia, was quoted as saying, “He (Obama) was often in the prayer room wearing a ’sarong’, at that time.”
“He was quite religious in Islam but only after marrying Michelle, he changed his religion.”
So Obama, according to his classmates and friends was a Muslim until the confluence of love and ambition caused him to adopt the cloak of Christianity: to marry Michelle and to run for President of the United States,”
Three years later, in 1971, Obama enrolled in the Besuki Primary School, a government school, as Barry Soetoro, Muslim. In third grade, Senator Obama wrote an essay titled ‘I Want To Be a President.’ His third grade teacher: Fermina Katarina Sinaga “asked her class to write an essay titled ‘My dream: What I want to be in the future.’ Senator Obama wrote ‘I want to be a President,’ she said.” [The Los Angeles Times, 3/15/07]
accumulated research from primary sources who knew Obama from his childhood indicate that he was a devout Muslim, the son of a devout Muslim, the step-son of a devout Muslim and the grandson and namesake (”Hussein”) of a devout Muslim. He was registered in school as a Muslim and demonstrated his ability to chant praise to Allah in impressive Arab-accented tones even as an adult. Just as he has not disavowed his “uncle” Jeremiah, neither has he disavowed his Muslim faith that he was born into, raised with, celebrated and never abandoned. He just covered it over with a thin veneer of his own self-styled “Christianity.”
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm
In his autobiography, “Dreams From My Father,” Obama mentions studying the Koran and describes the public school as “a Muslim school.”
According to Islamic scholars, reciting the Shahada, the Muslim declaration of faith, makes one a Muslim.
Reg,
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet….
Now that I’ve just been involuntarily converted to Islam, hey, what are the perks? Can I get a free pizza or something?
And, by the way, since no one asked my permission to convert me, I’m pretty much going to keep my same heathen beliefs (hey, you never said I had to be a good muslim!).
Any questions, fellow muslim ? You said it too , ya know.
Obama has never disavowed he is not Muslim in his heart and belief. He only started attending a church associated with the Christian Faith, but no where I can find that he says became a Christian. (i.e. his children were baptized, but nothing about him)
Obama wears the cloak of Reverend Wright’s TCC church as a convenient political disguise.
Wow lots to catch up on here!
I’ll have to read more fully later.
I honestly do not know much about this anti gay pastor. But I will err to kfg’s concerns.
I don’t toss a friend under the bus to work with the enemy.
And WHAT an enemy!
He seeks out, for over a year, the endorsement of a bigot and anti semite. THEN when he too late finds out just how radical the guy is, he denies seeking the endorsement!
Haven’t we had enough of the sort of President who makes with the bold acts on limited/bad intelligence?
“I’m unconvinced that Obama’s upbringing in his formative years in the Islamic Nation of Indonesia”
You would have voted for Obama anyway, so your idiotic statement is meaningless.
Just more troll behavior.
“would NOT…….”
“but no where I can find that he says became a Christian”
He was baptized as a Christian in his twenties.
Obama has never disavowed he is not Muslim in his heart and belief.
And you’ve never disavowed being a secret Rotarian. I know very well , thank you, about the secret agenda that your kind have in mind for this country!
Elvis Presley will never be install Emperor–I don’t care how many cities the aliens vaporize!
“Yep Agnos it came from the real left leaning Real Clear Politics, a product of Time and CNN. Does your foot get stuck in your mouth often?”
Real Clear Politics, which was relaying from the Wall Street Journal.
As for your contention that Real Clear Politics being left leaning…
http://www.princeton.edu/~paw/web_exclusives/more/more_20.html
Relevant quote:
“The articles selected invariably demonstrate McIntyre and Bevan’s political bent, about which they are unabashedly forthcoming. The Web site itself informs that ” RealClearPolitics attempts to counterbalance the common liberal bias of the mainstream press by providing a more realistic look at the issues. Above all, we believe in freedom, personal responsibility, and the free market capitalist system — [but do] not receive monetary support from any political party or outside interest groups.”
Just because a website is associated with Time or CNN does not make it liberal any more than Scarbourough being on the same network as Keith Oberman makes him liberal.
I’m not eating the shoe leather on this one. You, on the other hand, must be very flexible.
“‘Obama has never disavowed he is not Muslim in his heart and belief.’
“And you’ve never disavowed being a secret Rotarian. I know very well , thank you, about the secret agenda that your kind have in mind for this country!
“Elvis Presley will never be install Emperor–I don’t care how many cities the aliens vaporize!”
Psssst. Regular’s trolling.
Re:Regular
DNFTT
“Sorry, but I gotta say one more thing on the subject. If we are going to say ‘obama disagrees with mcclurkin, look at his voting record’…
Then we gotta say ‘look at Hillary’s voting record on race related issues.’ Look at her advocacy, and Bill’s advocacy over the years. It’s hard to overlook that kind of being on the right side of racial issues over that many years.
“So if we look at voting records and advocacy for obama on gay issues, we gotta do the same for Hillary on racial issues. She’s 100%.”
Don’t disagree. But, the point is, in both cases the voting record and the stands are more relevant.
Psssst. Regular’s trolling.
Yeah, I know, Ksag. I just thought I’d have some fun with it. As you know, I agree that ignoring the posts completely is usually the apropriate response.
But laughing at them when they’re hilariously asinine doesn’t strike me as particularly harmful, either! :-)
Capn
—–
“CapnAmerica
Posted April 9, 2008 at 3:19 pm | Permalink
Hagee:
On the Catholic Church– “A Godless theology of hate that no one dared try to stop for a thousand years produced a harvest of hate.”
“Adolf Hitler attended a Catholic school as a child and heard all the fiery antisemitic rantings from Chrysostom to Martin Luther. When Hitler became a global demonic monster, the Catholic Church and Pope Pius XII never, ever slightly criticized him. Pope Pius XII, called by historians ‘Hitler’s Pope,’ joined Hitler in the infamous Concordat of Collaboration, which turned the youth of the [sic] Germany over to Nazism, and the churches became the stage background for the bloodthirsty cry, ‘Pereat Judea’[21]…. In all of his [Hitler’s] years of absolute brutality, he was never denounced or even scolded by Pope Pius XII or any Catholic leader in the world.”
—-
I have trouble believing that Hagee meant all of this, in the way it sounds here, even if he did say it. (Source please?)
My reason is simple: No Catholic School in Germany would teach very much about Martin Luther, during the time Hitler would have attended!
That is ridiculous to even consider.
Now, many can be forgiven for not understanding the Catholic Church and its resistence to the Nazi ideology.
For starters, “Arianism” was the subject of at least 2 official Councils of the early church, and Arianism was condemned by the Church.
It is hard to believe that Hitler was trying to curry favor with the Catholic Church, if he so deliberately worked the “Arian” myths into his PAGAN ideology.
Furthermore, the Pope at the time, smuggled thousands of Jews out of Europe.
The Vatican, itself, sheltered thousands of Jews and protected them from the ovens.
The Vatican had no Army.
Even so, the Vatican spoke harshly about Hitler and opposed him as best it could.
I suggest this book, written by a Jewish Rabbi, to those of you who think that the Catholic Church, in any way shape or form, supported Hitler:
http://www.conservativebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6800
The Myth of Hitler’s Pope” by David C. Dalin.
“Rabbi David Dalin reveals:
How the myth of “Hitler’s Pope” began — as Communist propaganda
How liberal or apostate Catholics who are actively promoting the myth are exploiting a Jewish tragedy to undermine Church credibility on abortion and other issues
The little-known fact of “Hitler’s Mufti”: How the Muslim Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who spent the war years as Hitler’s guest in Berlin, advised and assisted the Nazis in carrying out Hitler’s Final Solution
The true history of Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust: how the Catholic Church did more than any other religious or secular institution to save Jewish lives
Why the Nazis considered Pope Pius XII their mortal enemy – and at one point actually plotted to kidnap him
Why Jewish survivors of the Holocaust — and the founders of postwar Israel — praised the pope for his help”
“The Myth of ‘Hitler’s Pope” by David C. Dalin
“I have trouble believing that Hagee meant all of this, in the way it sounds here, even if he did say it.”
But you believe EVERYTHING that Wright said, regardless of context.
Okay.
WS
Wright SOLD his CD’s over the internet.
I have no trouble at all being sure what it is that Wright actually said.
With Hagee?
I disagree with the man on many points, but I do not think Hagee would be stupid enough to think that the Martin Luther’s theology would be taught in a Catholic School!
“I disagree with the man on many points, but I do not think Hagee would be stupid enough to think that the Martin Luther’s theology would be taught in a Catholic School!”
Falwell and Robertson said that 9/11 was God’s punishment on the US for their support of womens’s rights and gays.
Was that misconstrued? Were they wrongly quoted, despite the fact that it is on video?
So, you think that right wing pastors NEVER say stupid, bigoted things?
Really.
Wright was wrong – so is Hagee.
Econ101: Eugenio Cardinal Pacelli, Papal Nuncio to Germany in the 30’s (later Pius X11), negotiated a pact with Hitler to exempt it from the ongoing anti-Christian purge and tried to get them to abandon any purge, totally. The Church in turn would not speak against National Socialism from the pulpit. Mussolini negotiated a concordate with the then Pope along the same lines, but he had to allow a cruifix and a picture of the Pope to be on display in all classrooms and resinstate the catechism, not done since Victor Emmanuelle II. The Church did help all victims of war ravaged Europe and was never, never complicit in Jewish murders, but these two concordats are a matter of history. They were also a matter of pure politics involving the three sovereign States. Hitler played with the idea of priesthood as any Catholic male might have done in a very pious Austria. There was also another boy who went to the seminary for a while, Iosif Dzhugashvili albeit a Russian Orthodox, later known as Joseph Stalin.
Sursam
Hitler was a PAGAN!
Hitler hated the Catholic Church.
There were Jewish prisoners in charge of keeping coal in the ovens. Surely you do not hold those Jews, who were victims, responsible for the murders of other Jews, do you?
Everyone did what they had to do, to survive.
Sigh
Paulie takes us on another of his surreal rides.
“Hitler was a PAGAN!”
This is true.
Hitler was also a politician. There were lots of Catholics in Germany.
Hitler could have stolen the considerable wealth of the Papal state any time he liked. ONE SS company or Wehrmacht regiment could have done the job easily.
He didn’t.
For that, he mostly got the Catholic church to look the other way.
To put a finer point on it. Hitler and the Catholic church “played ball”.
JR
And, in the bargain, thousands upon thousands of Jewish lives were saved, by the Catholic Church!
Will Mccain get a pass from the media on his statement that he reserves the right to start a pre-emptive war?
“Actually Steven it is Lanny Davis singing that mantra. You do know who he is don’t you? A Clinton apologist and active participamt in Hillary’s campaign.”
Then, Grm, why are you and your ilk, repeating that lie? Hmmmm????
In an interview with Nicholas Kristof, published in The New York Times, Obama recited the Muslim call to prayer, the Adhan, “with a first-class [Arabic] accent.”
How would Nicholas Kristof know “a first-class Arabic accent” from shinola?
“Hitler was a PAGAN!
Hitler hated the Catholic Church.”
Hitler was a Pagan and I’m Catholic. For a guy who was raised a Catholic, never left the Catholic church, attended church regularly, paid homage to God is his writings he sure did sound a lot like a Pagan.
To secure the loyalty of the Catholic and Lutheran churches (who initially opposed his absolute rule) paid them off with a church tax which they still receive to this day. Currently $10 billion dollars are collected from the people and paid to the churches from a tax law that originated in Nazi German.
Hitler only hated the church authority because they had the influence to oppose him. He quickly dealt with that problem by paying them off. Hence the reason why separation of church and state is a good thing.
The Catholic church was so cozy with the Nazis that they had no problem using 6,000 slaves to advance their goals:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/world/europe/09nazi.html
Paul, if that’s an example of how the Catholic church opposed the Nazi regime imagine how bad it would have been if they sided with them as they did in the Spanish revolution.
Okay, FrmGrrl–
I hear what you’re saying and I in part agree.
But your own link showed
1. Obama did not share the stage with McClurkin
2. Included a gay pastor to lead the group in prayer
3. McClurkin claiming that he himself was not anti-gay.
Where’s the evidence that McClurkin is anti-gay? Because some gay people think he’s anti-gay?
Did he say that 9-11 or Hurricaine Katrina was because of gays like Pat Robertson, Hagee and Falwell did? Because that would be anti-gay.
Also, as far as Hillary goes, I don’t remember huge strides for the GLBT community under Hill-Bill. I remember a tepid “don’t ask, don’t tell” BS thing in the military, and that’s about it.
Ya’ forgot about DOMA Capn’.
Also, Econ–
Whether Hitler learned about Martin Luther in Catholic school is entirely not the point. The point is what Hagee said about Hitler.
My source was Wikipedia.
OMGosh, you’re right, WSC:
From Wiki:
The Defense of Marriage Act was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996, after moving through a legislative fast track and overwhelming approval in both houses of the Republican-controlled U.S. Congress. Its Congressional sponsors stated, “[T]he bill amends the U.S. Code to make explicit what has been understood under federal law for over 200 years; that a marriage is the legal union of a man and a woman as husband and wife, and a spouse is a husband or wife of the opposite sex.”
*****
I completely forgot that Clinton was part of the hate amendment . . .
“I completely forgot that Clinton was part of the hate amendment . . .”
If that is supporting gay and lesbian rights, then I am Brad Pitt and I want a hot date with Angelina Jolie.
………….. what the Hell, I will settle for Jennifer Aniston.
That would be Bill Clinton.
The best Republican President of the last century.
Senator Hillary Clinton disagrees with her husband in many ways.
Let’s not tarnish the wife with the failings of the husband. Women deserve better than that.
“Let’s not tarnish the wife with the failings of the husband.”
Likewise, she can’t claim credit for the successes of her husband, either.
And as I said earlier, this thread is quite late.
Though I asked for it repeatedly.
I do not recall any Obama supporters calling for this thread.
Perhaps they prefer to avoid the subject of radical religious affiliations?
“I do not recall any Obama supporters calling for this thread.”
Was there a point in there somewhere, J R?
Uh YEAH WS
I have earlier this thread defended YOUR candidate Obama.
I have said that he chose his pastor as part of his life.
While Senator McCain ACTIVELY sought the support of a similar bigot to be part of his team.
I called repeatedly for a McCain thread. I was not joined in that call by any Obama supporters.
And MY candidate, Senator Hillary Clinton does not have these difficulties.
“And MY candidate, Senator Hillary Clinton does not have these difficulties.”
How do you know? We haven’t heard the tapes from all he pastor’s sermons.
And why does Hillary belong to a far right prayer group in the Senate?
Do we “take (her) at her word?”
You Obamanaiacs did not call out for exposure of Senator McCains radical affiliations.
Because you wanted to hush up the radical affiliations of Obama?
As good a guess as any.
“Because you wanted to hush up the radical affiliations of Obama?”
Nonsense. Nothing more. End of story. Thanks, however, for playing the game.
With that, I am outta here.
‘Nite ya’ll.
What is with you Obama folks?
Are you in alliance with McCain to destroy Senator Clinton so that we are presented with a known nut and an unknown?
If Hillary doesn’t have to take any responsibility for Bill’s bad policy decisions, how can she claim “experience” from being First Lady?
Anyway, it doesn’t matter. Obama has more pledged delegates, more popular vote, more states and a helluva lot more money.
While it’s technically true that neither one can win without superdelegates, it’s also true that the supers are going to split to the same degree that the pledged delegates do.
Obama has already won.
He roughly ties in Penn, Indiana, and Kentucky. He slays in North Carolina and Oregon.
That’s all she wrote.
Game, set and match.
“Obamanaiacs” [sic]; Obamaniacs might be better.
Check out this definition:
http://mw1.m-w.com/dictionary/maniac
““Because you wanted to hush up the radical affiliations of Obama?”
Nonsense. Nothing more. End of story. Thanks, however, for playing the game.
With that, I am outta here.”
You are politically naive WS.
You SHOULD be doing your research to get out in front of Barack Obama’s other radical affiliations. They are out there. And the right is making much of them.
But hey cover your ears and say “hope and change” over and over again.
Capn sez Obama has”
“helluva lot more money.”
Yes, I HAVE noticed this among the supporters of Obama.
They seem to be quite comfortable and well prepared to toss friends under the bus to work with the enemy.
Ya know what?
I don’t much like the arrogance of Obama supporters.
Now the right is not happy either.
Many of them won’t vote for McCain. They feel that the next President is destined to fail.
Given the circumstances. It’s probably a good bet.
The right is hedging that a Democrat President will get blamed and Ronald Reagan will rise from the grave.
I am starting to think about the reverse of that.
Obama supporters seem dismissive of their fellow Democrats and eager to pander to Republicans.
So… IF Obama is the nominee…
Maybe I vote McCain. Let him fail and then we get a REAL Democrat in 2012.
There is a big difference between Hagee and Wright. While both are religious nutcases, Wright has never desired to impose his beliefs on me and you. Hagee on the other hand DOES think it is perfectly fine for the government to impose his views on the rest of us.
Econ101
Posted April 9, 2008 at 2:46 pm | Permalink
“If you offend me, I can gripe about it and pass laws about it”
I’m a Libertarian you dip shit. The only party left that supports the constitution. You know, the freedom of speech and civil liberties and all? Since your party abandoned the values laid out by our forefathers, the founders of this great nation, maybe you need a refresher. I know the GOP damn sure does.
If you find my posts offensive, you are free to scroll over them.
Econ101: No doubt Hitler was not a practising Catholic for most of his life but as a boy he was brought up by and exposed to the tenets of the Catholic Church. I’ve been near (drove past on a tour bus) the village he was born in and there is a huge monastery which did and probably still influences the locals. Some countries refused to let the church function without controls mindful of the reformation, and orders like the Jesuits were banned and considered subversive. Agreements between the Vatican and whichever country were needed to have the mass said, was not uncommon. Think of England and Scotland where the mass was clandestine for a long time during and after Elizabeth I. BYW did you know that “pagan” mean adoring many gods vs monthesisism? Just thought I’d ask.
“What is with you Obama folks?
Are you in alliance with McCain to destroy Senator Clinton so that we are presented with a known nut and an unknown?”
———————-
J R,
Speaking for myself. You asked if Obama supporters want to destroy Senator Clinton. MY answer is absolutely NO! She will make an excellent president if she is nominated and she will make great contributions if she isn’t nominated. In fact, her expertise will be needed by Obama if he is the candidate AND after he is elected. I think she will offer it gladly — for America, for Americans.
All the candidates have taken the path that might ensure votes. What would we expect? They want the job so I don’t expect any one of them to not go after votes.
Like everyone else I wish it could be on the issues, and the candidates had the time and the attention of the voters long enough to be clear. That isn’t the case. So they try to get their opinions and positions known, then media takes the tiny amount they think worthy of being repeated (out of context) and often that’s all we get. Today’s world of YouTube and cameras and recording devices in the hands of everyone makes it more likely we hear the whole but we would need to make a full-time job of hearing everything. Even if we heard it all they are all humans and just like you and I they don’t always get the words out the way they would have with time to form a better response.
We news and political junkies dig for news. We choose based on what is important to us and we don’t agree on everything so we prioritize. Your priorities are different than mine, different than the next person.
Upthread CF2K (at 1:46 pm) said this:
“Because, in the end, any Democrat is exponentially better than any Republican. Period. The last decade has demonstrated to me that, to put it simply, Republicans are the sworn enemies of the Constitution, the rule of law, and America herself.”
In fact, in that post he said some profound and true statements. He said things I feel better than I could ever say them. Take time to read his post again and think on that post.
I’ve told you before I admire you standing for the candidate of your choice, and digging for the news, keeping abreast and sorting out your priorities. But do remember what bushco is and where that has taken our country. Then try to discern where McCain would be any different, any better than bushco. Latly, remember the ages of the Supreme Court Justices. Please think hard about these things when you go to vote.
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[...] Kansas.com Blogs » wrote an interesting post today on Will McCain get similar scrutiny about Rev. Hagee?Here’s a quick excerpt Sen. John McCain spent more than a year trying to get the endorsement of the Rev. John C. Hagee, a conservative religious leader from San Antonio. And when he got it in February, McCain said he was “proud and honored to have his support.” So why isn’t McCain mentioning the endorsement now? It’s because of statements Hagee has made that many consider anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish, such as saying the Catholic church is “the great whore” and a “false cult system.” McCain has since repudiated Hagee [...]
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saudi arabian culture…
Man i just love your blog, keep the cool posts comin…..
lebanese girl…
Thanks for the nice read, keep up the interesting posts…..
Natalia Vodianova…
Man i just love your blog, keep the cool posts comin…..
hot arab girl…
Thanks for the nice read, keep up the interesting posts…..
brenda strong…
Thanks for the nice read, keep up the interesting posts…..
Jessie…
I don’t mean to be too in your face, but I’m not sure I agree with this. Anyhow, thanks for sharing and I think I’ll write a post on this on my blog soon….
Pee Female Pee Pee Hole…
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view…