Comments on: Torture policy started at the top

By: Jed

Jed — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:04:10 +0000

bth,
“Does that count as major oragn failure?”

No, the autopsy report stated that his genital area was undamaged.

By: bth

bth — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:23:00 +0000

“Blows were severe enough it caused hemorrage in internal organs.”

Does that count as major oragn failure?

By: bth

bth — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:17:09 +0000

Capn – is that the guy whose body they then stuffed into a freezer?

By: CapnAmerica

CapnAmerica — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:11:33 +0000

Oh, sh!t, Nathan.

You’re telling me that somebody just decided to torture the prisoner to death on his own?

In a military prison? Run by the military? In a military chain of command?

Thanks for proving that no matter what the evidence, you’ll play the part of dumbass to defend your position.

By: Nathaniel

Nathaniel — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:52:23 +0000

CapnAmerica,

I didn’t see anywhere on your link where it concluded that authorized torture by US forces caused the death.

Perhaps you could point that out to me?

By: WSClark

WSClark — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:19:15 +0000

“Do we know who is suspected of beating this Iraqi soldier?”

You still have yet to answer the questions, Rossell.

You still have yet to explain how YOU know all this to be true.

I guess we could just use your rationale and run all the mo th er fu ck ers through a wood chipper.

Then we could sink to the level of Saddam Hussein.

By: Franklin

Franklin — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:04:31 +0000

Facts?
Do we know who is suspected of beating this Iraqi soldier?
Many of those who die, in United States stateside prisons, die at the hands of other prisoners.
Can we be sure that this man was not beaten by other prisoners for some reason?

Even if this man was beaten by someone in the United States Military, the idea that such was authorized by the entire chain of command is absurd.

By: CF2K

CF2K — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:21:32 +0000

Judging by their frantic attempts to change the subject, you’d almost think the WeBlog Wingnuts were embarrassed by the Bush Administration’s direct supervision of torture. What with outlander’s airy dismissal, and ad hominem attack on liberals opposed to torture as “sheep,” and Nathaniel (is that a fancy name for Nathan?) trying every trick in the Authoritarian Follower book to create argumentative diversions, it’s pretty clear that even the Wingnuts, shameless though they are, know this is the real deal.

The Bush Administration are war criminals. And their supporters are complicit in their crimes.

Cap’N,

Silly question: OF course we should believe Nathan. Facts lie, you know.

By: CapnAmerica

CapnAmerica — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:09:24 +0000

http://action.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/102405/3235.pdf

Circumstances for death: detainee died while in US custody.

Manner of death: Blunt force trauma and asphyxia.

Report details some twenty broken ribs, while the detainee was hung from his wrists. Blows were severe enough it caused hemorrage in internal organs.

Who are you going to believe?

Nathan and the other Bush suck-ups or the autopsy report in front of your eyes?

By: CapnAmerica

CapnAmerica — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:04:40 +0000

Fleetklin writes that liberals want to protect terrorists.

Wrong.

But we do think that terrorists should be proven terrorists before they’re tortured.

Question: Since we don’t try the convicts in Guantanamo Prison, how do we know that they are actually terrorists?

Answer: We know they’re terrorists because they’re in the prison for terrorists, Guantanamo Prison.

Ah, that explains it then . . .

By: bth

bth — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:44:06 +0000

“Those Marines have since been exhonorated.”

By whom? THEMSELVES and their budddies.

By: Franklin

Franklin — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:23:57 +0000

Terrorists, in the mind of a liberal, deserve full constitutional rights that we give to citizens of the United States for acts that are alleged to have occured on our own soil.

However, in the “case” of George W. Bush and his Administration, liberals want to deny the Bush Administration THEIR Constitutional rights, as citizens, and hand them over to a foreign power?

HYPOCRITES!

By: sursum

sursum — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:20:49 +0000

Chas: Rage has me figured right, I was trying (in my own muddled way) to ridicule those “good Germans” who claimed to have no idea about the atrocities occuring in Germany between 1933-45.The Dachau thing was my example of their continued denial. How a killing ground/concentrated area of cruetly can now be just a “haven for artists” in one generation just blew me away, and got me mad as hell to boot. I understand before the war it was an artists colony, but no referal at all to the holocaust is unacceptable.

By: Jed

Jed — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:18:21 +0000

Dawg,
No, this was not a car accident; it was planned long before 9/11 by members of a neo-con think-tank that Cheney and Bush brought into the administration after the suspect election of 2K. 9/11 provided them with the excuse they needed to attempt an utterly simplistic, proudly ignorant and ammoral solution to the problems faced in the middle-east. The way they had it planned was that the invasion, and the hysteria they created to justify the war would be over and done with in a matter of weeks and by now the entire area would be democratized before criticism of its morality could set in. For reasons stated above it didn’t work out quite as smoothly as intended and now hundreds of thousands of people are dead; Bush has outbutchered the “Butcher of Bagdad!”
Maybe we all are to blame for buying what the administration sold, but you have to admit that the only masterful part of the war was the way it was shilled. Administrations have lied to us in the past, but never to the extent or as glibly as this one has. They made sure that the truth never stood a chance!
Again, this was no car accident, but what can we do now to make it right and still exist as a nation? We remove our troops as quickly as possible, hand over those who planned and executed this monstrosity to the proper international authorities and do what we can to repair the damage done. And then make certain that we never get suckered like that again!

By: Franklin

Franklin — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:13:27 +0000

Many of you liberals believed Murtha, when Murtha prematurely attacked the “Haditha Marines” —
Those Marines have since been exhonorated.

It seems liberals are more than happy to find Bush, and the Haditha Marines “guilty” of some unspecified “crime” — but unwilling to give your own country or your own President the benefit of any doubt.

Hypocrites!

By: writerdog

writerdog — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:10:23 +0000

JED, I admit it is not fair or just but Governments and in the end people find it easier to distort history than to do the right thing. Admit mistakes were made and make restitution maybe the right thing to do. But this is not a car accident. IN the cold clear light of day, every reason given for the invasion and occupation has been shown incorrect to say the least. No matter how it is spun, water boarding is torture under international laws and a human rights violation. Even in case law of the U.S. The President of the United States recently publicly acknowledge he was aware his underlings approved of the use and he sanctioned it.

These are actions that can not be over looked with a simple “ I am sorry”, in fact to do the right thing would enable the country to be put on trial for war crimes and be convicted. It will not be the intent that will excuse the actions. Pleading we had the best of intentions will not negate the reality of what it turned out to be the case. The homeowner may say they thought it was an intruder they were shooting. But it will be the fact they shot their child that the court would look at.

By: writerdog

writerdog — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 04:04:10 +0000

In trying to find Am. Ed Pecks comments about the “chickens coming home to roost” I came across this video about another Wrights comment “God damn America” It too is the full contexr of the serrmon.

My question is why if these were so easy to find have we not hear about them on the MSM?
BTW: a search of Fox news data bank does not show more then two videos of peck and neither are from after 9-11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw

By: WSClark

WSClark — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 02:51:12 +0000

“Charles Manson was a United States Citizen who was accused of crimes that happened on United States soil.”

So was Jose Padilla.

By: WSClark

WSClark — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 02:47:17 +0000

I couldn’t help but notice, Franklin, that you ignored the other points that I made.

By: Jed

Jed — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 02:25:09 +0000

BJ,
What this administration has done is not a crime against us, as much as we would like to think so, but an international war crime. Our AG doesn’t have jurisdiction to prosecute Bushco; it needs to be done by an international court with our cooperation in order to begin restoring our credibility as a nation. Unfortunately, such a court will probably not be able to impose a death penalty.

By: BlueJay

BlueJay — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:48:51 +0000

Justice is justice.

Or is it, justice is justus there paulie?

I’d like to see Senators Clinton and Obama promising that their AG would investigate the preceeding administration and prosecute to the fullest extent.

By: Franklin

Franklin — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:18:11 +0000

Monkey
Charles Manson was a United States Citizen who was accused of crimes that happened on United States soil.

Terrorists who atttack us on foreign soil, and do not answer to any military chain of command, are illegal enemy combatants and do NOT deserve a jury trial like a Citizen would.

Very simple to understand but you refuse to even try!

By: RightAngle

RightAngle — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:02:14 +0000

CapnAmerica
Posted April 12, 2008 at 4:11 pm | Permalink
Ben knows who I am, says WryTangle.

Really? Because I know him personally along with BlueJay, CF2K, Tom, Doug, Chas, and Steven Davis.

I’ll have to ask him next time he’s on.

==============================================
I’M ON – WHAT DO YOU WANT TO ASK ME?

By: Phantom

Phantom — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:36:38 +0000

Well, Blue Jay, you do know they’re going to be abbreviating your nic!

By: Rage

Rage — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:33:30 +0000

I would assume there are several Nathan’s in Wichita and someone else got to it, maybe a few weeks ago.

Far more likely (and common) is that several Real Cities/Wordpress blogs share the same registration database. Hence if someone’s registered “Nathan,” “Econ101″ “Max” or “J_R” on another blog, it’s unavailable anywhere.

Blogger uses gmail addresses as sign-ins these days. How big a pool do you think that is?

Of course, deliberate squatting is possible, too. But I wouldn’t assume it unless something really unusual (say, like “Monkeyhawk”) was unavailable.

I think we’re good.