As expected, Gov. Kathleen Sebelius today rejected the “compromise” coal plant proposed by legislative leaders. “The latest proposal still builds two large coal-fired plants, with the purpose of sending 83 percent of their energy out of the state, and creating nearly 10 million tons of new carbon dioxide each year,” Sebelius said. She also noted that the bill still puts the Legislature “in the middle of the regulatory permitting process in a manner not found in any other state in the union.” Another objection that hasn’t received much attention is that the proposal releases Sunflower Electric Power Corp. “from Kansas Corporation Commission oversight — thus removing all protection their customers have from massive rate increases.”
Instead of this weak compromise, Sebelius is proposing a true middle ground of building the one plant that was approved earlier.
72 Comments
Sunflower claims that their ‘magic algae’ will work wonders. Morris and Neufeld claim that it will make the plants essentially carbon-neutral.
Well, there is absolutely nothing preventing Sunflower from building their magic algae plant at their existing coal plant. They should do so and demonstrate that they are telling us the truth about that technology. Then we might have something to work with on expansions.
Deregulation on controls for energy prices. How well did that work out for California? I’m wondering how much those Republicans have been paid off to create a bill that would force higher utility bills upon the consumers.
Ya know, it pains me, but I have to give it up for Sebelius on this issue. She has stuck this one out, spent political capital, and not sold out. I’m pleasantly surprised. Of course, I think it is to shore up her red state record on the environment so’s she’s presentable as she takes the national stage:)
“Another objection that hasn’t received much attention is that the proposal releases Sunflower Electric Power Corp. “from Kansas Corporation Commission oversight — thus removing all protection their customers have from massive rate increases.”
I’m really worried about this. I love my local co-op and they provide good service. Good people. But we are one of the members of Sunflower, that’s who we get our power from.
I remember the rates when Holcomb first came on line, and how they almost had to declare the first Holcomb plant a stranded asset because it was non-competitive in rates, and some other things as well. My power bills were TWICE as high as non-Holcomb generated power.
Since then, the rates have come back in line, but with this knot head proposal, I see it being deja vu all over again. They are gonna pass all their costs of magic algae plants and other pie in the sky.
I’m putting my hand on my wallet right now. This is WAY bigger robbery than taxes!
OMG, now THIS is FUNNY!
Wonder why we didnt read about this in the WE?
Hehehehheheehehheh.
Attention Melvin Neufeld. The shark called. He’s tired of you jumping him….
http://www.hdnews.net/Story/perks043008
Neufelf knowingly lied when he claimed that a supposed microalgae pilot plant would “have rendered the expansion nearly carbon-neutral.” So, it is absolutely no surprise to see him lie some more.
And isnt he the coke can guy? Implying that we’d have to outlaw Coke if we dont approve Holcomb.
Man, I need to look for my old back brace to give to the shark… All that jumpin’ ya know…
I don;t see an algae plant as necessary. Just let then buy ofsetting carbon credits. It’s the “in” thing to do, isn;t is?
Personally, AG opinion notwithstanding, I think Bremby was wrong. As a bureucrat, he should stay within defined regulations and legislation. He may be doing what he and many others think is “best” , but I donpt think that is sufficient reason for him to do what he has done. No interest ins sunflower, no interest in having coal plants supplying Colorado with electricity. My general opinion is you want it, put it in your own damn yard. Just don’t like governmental bureaucrats exceeding their authority. In my belief, and yes, I know the AG has written an opinion otherwise, that is exactly what he did.
““Another objection that hasn’t received much attention is that the proposal releases Sunflower Electric Power Corp. “from Kansas Corporation Commission oversight — thus removing all protection their customers have from massive rate increases.””
Go Governor Sebelius. WHoever put that little part of the proposal in there should be publically shamed and humiliated.
Just what the state needs- another unrestrained monopoly, free to imppose unlimited price increases with no justification whatsoever on its customers, who have no choice but to buy their power from Sunflower or do without. Hooray for the republican party!
lj - the statutes give him the leeway to develop specific requirements. It’s sort of like speed limits - the legislature soes not set them, they simply give guidelines. The bureaucrats then do the rtaffic studies etc and come up with a number.
” sort of like speed limits - the legislature soes not set them, they simply give guidelines. The bureaucrats then do the rtaffic studies etc and come up with a number.”
Not true. Legislatures set the limits through specific
legislation. See Section 8 of the Kansas Statutes annotated.
” sort of like speed limits - the legislature soes not set them, they simply give guidelines. The bureaucrats then do the rtaffic studies etc and come up with a number.”
Not true. Legislatures set the limits through specific
legislation. See Section 8 of the Kansas Statutes annotated.
LJ,
“WHoever put that little part of the proposal in there should be publically shamed and humiliated.”
No, they should be taken out and lynched by the citizens of Kansas, and left to rot in front of the Capitol building as a warning to other members of the legislature who would use their power to line the pockets of contributors and lobbyists!
Sorry for the double post. I don;t know what happened.
Good point Ben.
“Just don’t like governmental bureaucrats exceeding their authority. In my belief, and yes, I know the AG has written an opinion otherwise, that is exactly what he did.”
LJ, you may be correct, but I’m speculating that if Sunflower thought they could win in court, they would already be there. It HAS to be cheaper than buying a 2/3 majority of the legislature.
Nope. I think Sunflower went this legislative route because they dont think they can win in court.
And the repukes jumped at the chance to deregulate anything, strip power from any state agency, and do ANYTHING to piss off the gov.
And did I mention posture for the next election?
They are seriously mistaken if they listen to their own echo chamber and think a MAJORITY of Kansans do not want this plant. It might be a thin majority, but a majority none the less.
And incidentally, this wont matter a rat’s ass for Neufeld unless he runs for governator against Derick Schmidt and Lance Kinzer/Kenny Wilkes. Melvin’s seat is safe, and so is his tenure in the house.
But this WILL matter to the person repubs nominate for gov. It will matter a bunch if the majority of Kansans really dont want this plant.
Melvin’s making an “all in” bet for the KGOP. They better hope, as we used to say in Texas, that Neufeld isnt letting his allegator mouth overload his tadpole ass!
Besides, if Sunflower loses in the legislature, they can always go to court later, right?
And the costs keep mounting…
hee hee hee heeeeee….
“left to rot in front of the Capitol building as a warning”
Jed, have I told you lately that I love you?
Maybe we could impale their heads on pikes at the capital?
I think we should save a few heads though to tie around the necks of kansas republicans so they rot like dead chickens and shame the wearers.
And I think there are some ksdems that need to stop killing chickens TOO!
” It HAS to be cheaper than buying a 2/3 majority of the legislature.”
I would certainly think so. Why they haven;t gone the court route I don;t really know. I do have a question. Has Bremby, given his self proclaimed status as Protector, issued the guidelines for co2 emissions HE thinks are acceptable? I don’t really know and am asking honestly. If he is going to take on the task, then he needs to propose regulation and legislation as the new standard. Just saying,
“that ain’t gonna work: Aint gonna get it done, in my opinion. Whole hog or none. Do it, or shut up and go back to your corner. Whatever. Again, I am not backing the sunflower proposal. I am against out of control beaurocrats. Saying NO without saying what IS acceptable emissions, is just being an ass, whether you approve of the result or not.
Sebelius basically said that she does not want elected legislators writing rules and regulations and laws.
Sebelius would rather have unelected government bureaucrats write our laws for us!
lj - they set catagories. When the limit on Kellogg between Wichita and Goddard was lowered it was not through legislation.
Ben-
Cities, counties, and the state all set traffic laws. It is a maze, but they are set by that side of the government. The executive branch often writes regulations to carry out the intent of the legislative bodies, to that I will agree. And I agree that they are often, by statute, given the autority to do so. Bremby has claimed (and the AG agreed) that the legislature has given him that power. So, where are they?
So, what regulations or laws has Bremby set for co2 admissions? and are they inline with ANY controlling legislative bodies categories? Feds? State of Kansas? EPA?
Pall,
When the bureaucrats act in the interest of the people of Kansas, and the legislators are openly bought and paid for by corporate interests, sure. I’d prefer the bureaucrats did the regulating!
The fact is, the proposal by Sunflower Electric met all existing requirements. It should have been approved. Not denied because sometime, somewhere, the epa MIGHT pass standards that the plants MIGHT not meet. One must stay within the rules, or rules no longer exist and we have either anarchy, or tyranny. Both statements have been applied tothe current US Admin and his cabinet. On this blog. As I recall by you. The same applies to Bremby, whether or not you prefer the result of his lawlessness. By the way, AG opinions are not binding legally, they are only his opinion. Law is decided either by the legislature, or the courts.
The legislaure seems to agree. Any belief that they are all “bought and paid for” is only that, an unsubstantiated belief. I could also believe that Bremby has been bought and paid for by the natural gas coalition, no?
LJ, not all “bought and paid for” is with dollars, but I guess we’ll see in this upcoming election when the donations are disclosed. Follow the money as they say.
But given neufeld’s arm twisting and blackmail this session, and how ANY meaningful legislative work has been held up by him and his merry band of thugs…
…I dont think it’s a big stretch to think the legislators this session WERE bought and paid for.
And the fact that he has to jump the shark with this “perks” allegation just shows how desperate the repukes are to hand over the state to polluters and water suckers like Sunflower.
Obama took money from someone, lots of money, and then helped that person obtain a government grant:
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/Obama_Donor_state_grant/2008/04/30/92234.html?s=al&promo_code=4A30-1
How fair will you be with this “bought and paid for” charge?
In the case of Obama, he took a “consulting fee” from the company, as well as political contributions.
Do you have ANY evidence that any of our legislators have taken any illegal funds from anyone?
“Sebelius would rather have unelected government bureaucrats write our laws for us!”
I think what got the legislature upset was not that the bureaucrats make the decisions - but that even though the power company proposal met all federal emmissions/EPA requirements, they ruled against it. The regulators also were looking at potential carbon credit regulation which hasn’t even been worked out yet. This together prompted the legislature to act (when bureaucrats can’t follow the regs). Of course, the power company lobby in Topeka probably fills all the hotels.
But what more can you ask regulators to follow than federal/state law? Did the proposals follow federal law?
If the plants truly will not be generating energy for use here in Kansas and not within the next few years, I can see the opposition.
But just because they are coal, isn’t reason enough to say no. Coal is not a banned substance.
Why would you ask me to defend obama?
“Do you have ANY evidence that any of our legislators have taken any illegal funds from anyone?”
nope
As noted above, not all “bought and paid for” is done in dollars. And there are so many loopholes in ks ethics laws and regulations that I’m quite sure such “bought and paid for” is quite legal.
Please repost where I accused them of doing anything illegal.
The workers will be from Kansas, and will pay Kansas taxes.
The people in Colorado?
Maybe they can afford to fly in Kansas airplanes, eat Kansas beef and eat Kansas wheat.
If it is good for the economy, and in compliance with current law, we need to do it.
KFG
My apologies for not being clear.
My comments were directed at Jed:
—
Jed
Posted April 30, 2008 at 3:36 pm | Permalink
Pall,
When the bureaucrats act in the interest of the people of Kansas, and the legislators are openly bought and paid for by corporate interests, sure. I’d prefer the bureaucrats did the regulating!”
“The workers will be from Kansas, and will pay Kansas taxes.”
Read Sunflower’s proposal paul. There will not be a lot of PERMANENT jobs created. There will be temporary construction jobs, but a lot of those workers will be from out of area and out of state.
The Sunflower proposal even estimates the amount these “temporary” workers will spend on food, lodging, gas, etc.
Sorry dude. That dog wont hunt.
ksfarmgrrl–
Being bought and paid for is always in the eyes of the beholder, I suppose. I wouldn’t argue one way or the other. Maybe the legislature is bought and paid for. Maybe Neufield is an ass. Maybe Bremby has been offered a cushy job somewhere when his tenure is over, don;t know and can;t prove it. I still think that beurocrats, no matter the benefit, should NOT be allowed to go outside the intent of the legislature who passes the laws the regulations are supposed to be based on. Obviously, the majority of the legislature agrees. The principal here is as important as the result, in my opinion. Regulators must stay within the law. There was no legislating, or even overriding epa guidelines concerning co2. He should have made his recommendations to the legislature, and let them do their job, or be thrown out of office
Pall,
Since you seem to want an atmosphere of openness and sunlight, how about you revealing the nature and extent of your financial links with Sunflower? Are you a lobbyist for them? A stockholder? How about it?
lj - when I took environmental law we spent a lot of time on ‘agency law.’ I have to deal with KDHE on behalf of clients and have found that only rarely has the legislature actually set the rules. Instead what they do is to delegate to the Secretary the responsibility to ‘get the job done.’ Therefore I end up working with the regulators, not the legislature. That is how the legislature set it up.
Jed
I am a free market capitalist.
I want a strong economy.
I will benefit no more and no less than you will benefit, by a healthy economy.
Excess regulation harms us far more than “carbon” ever will.
No, I have no financial interest in Sunflower.
They are a co-op, are they not?
I live in Wichita.
“ksfarmgrrl” –
Is it possible that the water issue vis a vis Holcomb hasn’t been brought up because it’s an ace in the hole?
If the Republics get their extra vote to overturn Sebelius’ veto, the water issue can become an entirely new front in the courts and the legislature.
I think the water issue would have more impact on Kansans than the CO2 thing. But the CO2 issue does have some national cachet.
Still, I think Sebelius as a Democratic running-mate is just not gonna happen. Not enough electoral votes and she’s just not ready for prime time yet.
Much more likely, Kathleen is cabinet material. HUD, EPA, FEMA… something like that. She resigns, Parkinson becomes de facto incumbent Democratic governor, she’s got two years’ national experience to run for Brownback’s seat in 2010…
I dunno. As Yogi Berra said, “Predictions are tough. Especially when they involve the future.”
However this Holcomb thing is getting played — on both sides — I think Sebelius has been practicing real politik pretty craftily so far.
“Excess regulation harms us far more than “carbon” ever will.”
That is your opinion; it is not a fact.
And of course, “bth,” –
“Excess” regulation to a true “free market capitalist” such as “Franklin,” is any regulation whatsoever.
Too bad he never made it to Econ102
The water and air belong to the people of Kansas.
The people of Kansas are not required to be forced to have their water stolen and their air polluted because someone wants to sell power.
By overwhelming majority, the people of Kansas do not want these plants.
The plants must not be built.
J R sings..
Keep a knockin’ but ya can’t get in!
Keep a trying but you’ll never win!
This legislatives seesion’s ’bout to end!
Come on back next time and lose again!
. . . and here, JR, I thought you hated music:-)
If we could harness the wind coming from the mouths of the Repubs, screaming like little kids for these coal plants, we could power western Kansas for years to come.
Come on, Kansas legislature: Go for it! You can do it! Eye of the tiger! S**t on a shingle! A coal plant in every pot!
It’s imperative the Wichita EAGLE furnish a list of legislators who vote for and against the proposed Holcomb coal-fired electric power plants. As of last week, the Kansas Senate voted to override the governor’s veto but the Kansas House of Representatives voted to uphold the veto by a one vote margin.
Thank you Kansas House of Representatives.
So, now let’s hope that one vote margin remains or increases. Now we are down to the final draw, the real deal, using real bullets. If the re-vote shifts, we the people of Kansas will lose our clean country air and our sparkling clean underground drinking water.
If the veto is overriden thereby approving building the proposed power plants … Kansas voters must be told names of our legislators who don’t give a damn about the future well being of Kansas citizens and its youth.
I second that call Jwink.
But the Senate already voted to orerride.
It’s all on the House now.
Representatives? Have the courage and foresight that the Governor has in this matter!
Al Gore has a huge financial stake in “bio-fuels” — Ethanal uses far more water, in this state, than coal plants, when you add in all the water used to grow the corn in the fist place!
You folks just do not like coal or oil.
Why?
You are causing a great deal of hardship, and hurting the economy, for your false religion of Earth Worship. It is entirely possible to use our resources in a responsible and economical and enviromenally friendly way.
There is NO substitute for carbon-based fuel in the short term.
In the long-run, any “alternatives” will simply supplement carbon based fuel.
The greatest source of energy we have is that which we currently waste.
Conservation and alternatives are the way to go.
Dinosaur fuels have had their run.
“You folks just do not like coal or oil.
Why?”
This PhD scientist and KS licensed Geologist has answered your question Paul. Many times; in great detail.
#
BlueJay
Posted April 30, 2008 at 9:05 pm | Permalink
The greatest source of energy we have is that which we currently waste.
Conservation and alternatives are the way to go.
Dinosaur fuels have had their run.
———————————
Again with the dinosaurs Junior…
Didn’t you pay attention in school?
Blue Jay: That sounds right … conservation of electrical power should be our #1 objective. I see it all the time … government buildings and government lighting turned on even when no longer needed. I suspect electrical power usage could be reduced by 30% merely by conservation efforts.
Of course, electrical utility companies would have to RAISE rates because their staff must be paid regardless of power usage!
Taxpayers and ratepayers can’t win but at least we would be reducing usage of coal, natural gas, etc.
There is a store near where I live.
It has been closed for 4 months. The lights are still on all day and all night.
There is ANOTHER store near where I live that has been closed for several years. The lights are still on day and night.
And that is just for a start.
The power is not needed for Kansas. Wolf Creek nuclear was down recently and no one even noticed!
No what we have with these coal plants is similar to Enron. Energy brokers who manufacture shortages to play with price.
More news on same from Topeka:
“GOVERNOR REJECTS NEW COAL PLANT PROPOSAL
Gov. Sebelius defied legislative leaders and rejected the newest proposal for two coal-fired power plants. She said, “I am disappointed that, for the third time in a row, the Legislature is asking me to mandate that Kansas send the power we need — the power we create — to Colorado and Texas,” Sebelius said during a news conference. House Speaker Melvin Neufeld, R-Ingalls, and Senate President Steve Morris, R-Hugoton, said Sebelius’ decision could trigger an attempt today to override her veto of the coal plant bills previously passed by both houses.
“We’ll proceed,” with a veto override, Neufeld said after he and Morris met with Sebelius. The dispute is over a project by Hays-based Sunflower Power Electric Corp. and two out-of-state partners from Colorado and Texas to build two coal-burning plants in southwest Kansas. The Governor has rejected two bills that would authorize construction of the two 700-megawatt plants. She has cited concerns about carbon dioxide emissions, linked to climate change, escalating costs of coal-fired plants, the fact that 85% of the power would be sold to out-of-state customers, and the bills’ limitations on the state environmental agency, KDHE, to regulate air quality in Kansas.
Sunflower Power offered to reduce the project to two 600-megawatt plants, and Neufeld and Morris demanded that Sebelius accept the offer or they would initiate override votes. But Sebelius continued to criticize the deal, noting it also would strip the power of the KDHE and put the power to issue permits in the hands of the Legislature rather than the state agency. “The ultimatum I have been given contains all these problems, and would surely send our state in the wrong direction,” she said.
Soooo, now the showdown moves back to the House and Senate. To override the Governor’s veto would require two-thirds’ majorities —
84 votes in the 125-member House and 27 in the 40-member Senate. The last bill Sebelius vetoed concerning the plants received 83 votes in the House and 32 in the Senate. Sebelius said she was working hard to sustain the veto in the House.
And, the two proposed western Kansas coal-fired plants face a challenge that no amount of political wrangling can fix: rising construction costs. Construction costs are estimated at $3.6 billion.
If the company gets its permits — which are at the center of a political fight right now — it will contract for another cost study.
Other companies have postponed plans for new coal plants, citing rising costs and an uncertain regulatory future. Westar Energy did so in February. Last week, Associated Electric Cooperative Inc. in Missouri opted for a natural gas plant, which could be built for less. Both projects had price tags of about $2 billion. “They (the power plants) are on orders of magnitude significantly more expensive to build today even more than they were when they were conceived,” said Patrick Lavigne, spokesman for the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association.
Furthermore, Congressional action on the Lieberman-Warner Bill, Senate Bill 2131, is likely to add additional costs. It is estimated that, soon after beginning operation, the plants owners would have to spend between $75 and $150 million on carbon dioxide allowances and, by 2030, the annual CO2 costs could be $700 million. That cost would be passed to the customers, some of whom will be in Kansas, increasing the cost of energy to customers.”
Good morning on Thursday, 5/1/08: According to this morning’s Wichita EAGLE, the critical vote by the Kansas House of Representatives will most likely come today. 125 house members have the future well-being of Kansas people and particularly the youth of Kansas.
An approval of the two proposed coal-fired electric power manufacturing plants will do more than anything I can think of too drive out our young upwardly mobile young people never to return to Kansas again.
Think Chernobyl in Russia after the melt-down.
In fact some of the existing plants must be modified if possible or closed.
Come-on, Kansas legislators, do the right thing this time … for the kids.
JWink
Pall,
“No, I have no financial interest in Sunflower.”
Then you need to send them a bill.
I can’t imagine anyone sane being so willing to lie in favor a company that pays almost no attention to what it will do to the citizens of this state and not get paid for sacrificing his credibility!
Jed
Credibility?
You are a chicken little kook on this issue.
We NEED energy in this country.
Wind and solar and geo-thermal and nuclear and natural gas and oil AND COAL!
Alternatives will NOT be able to replace carbon-based fuels in your lifetime or mine.
You hate coal.
All hate is irrational.
” Alternatives will NOT be able to replace carbon-based fuels in your lifetime or mine.”
Got a crystal ball do ya paulie?
No what you have is a vested interest in making what you say, so.
And everybody here knows it.
“All hate is irrational”
Wow Paul. Something you and Tiller agree upon?
BJ
Your “crystal ball” says that we WILL have alternatives to carbon-based fuels.
Your “crystal ball” says that, therefore, we can afford to sacrifice a fuel and a way of life that WORKS — and replace that way of life with your PIPE DREAMS!
You insist that we WILL have alternatives.
Where are those alternatives?
“All hate is irrational”
So, if I hate the Nazi genocide of the 30s-40s I am irrational. OK.
“Alternatives will NOT be able to replace carbon-based fuels in your lifetime or mine.”
How can you be so certain of that Paul? Scientists I know disagree with you - at least if we get moving.
I remember when JFK said we would put a man on the moon. Naysayers like Paul proclaimed “not in your lifetime or mine”.
bth
Where is the logic in penalizing a system that employs people, feeds people, and warms people, as we develop alternatives?
There is no reason why we can not explore alternatives while, at the same time, encouraging production of existing energy supplies.
We did not STOP doing anything else, while on our way to the moon!
bth
Hate of people is irrational.
Hate the sin not the sinner.
Paul - the thing is we are digging the hole deeper. I realize that you do not believe the science. I do.
Paul - I hate Hitler. If that makes me irrational then so be it.
And Paul - coal is not a ‘people’
“I can’t imagine anyone sane being so willing to lie in favor a company that pays almost no attention to what it will do to the citizens of this state and not get paid for sacrificing his credibility!”
Good point, Jed. The only problem with your reasoning is the assumption that Paul has any credibility to sacrifice. He does not. Thus, he can lie away with impunity.
Jed - Steven - maybe Paul is more interested in the coal companies than Sunflower. That would be a real winner - after the plant becomes an albatross the coal outfits won’t care.
The plant will NOT be an albatross.
Sooner or later, we will get a politician who really has a pair, who will tell the American people that the fault for high energy prices rests with the Environmental Left.
We NEED energy.
There is NO other source of energy that is a available and as cheap as coal.
The proposed coal plants will be very clean.
You libs are radicals.
The public hates high gas prices, today.
Tomorrow, they will hate high electricity prices.
It is YOUR fault, tree huggers.
The public will, increasingly, begin to blame the Democrats for high prices.
More pure BS from science-hater Rossell. Now he blames all our problems on scientists.
“The proposed coal plants will be very clean.”
Tell me Paul; why did Neufeld fell that he needed to lie about the supposed microalgae pilot plant would “have rendered the expansion nearly carbon-neutral”? That lie was clearly demonstrated; they have now scrapped that part of their proposal.
Get past freshman econ Paul; maybe even take a little science.
You CONS are Luddites.
#
bth
Posted May 1, 2008 at 5:04 pm | Permalink
Get past freshman econ Paul; maybe even take a little science.
You CONS are Luddites.
———————————–
Really Ben, you need to pull your underwear out of your crack and not get so cranky.
Besides, micro algae is not a bad term. It may well be a solution for producing bio-diesel and scrubbing co2 from systems, using a saline solution.
There is much research going on with micro algae. Not all of it is bad as you infer.
“We NEED energy.”
Uh no.
These plants sap Kansas water and sour Kansas air to provide an excess of power to sell to Colorado.
The greatest source of energy that we already have is that which we waste.
I don’t know what financial stake you have in this venture Paulie. But given your….zeal, it must be considerable.
Tough.
Kansas is not required to allow the construction of pollution plants to feather your nest OR your cap.
Ben
As I recall, “Ludites” hated capitalism and hated the industrial society.
The term fits you greens pefectly!
It is the greens who want to role back economic growth and progress.
YOU are attacking what, Ben? You are attacking Neufelds “algae” idea, YOU are attacking technology.
OK, maybe that idea won’t work, however —
YOU have yet to give an idea that WILL work, you and your green buddies just want to tell the rest of us what to do, damn the cost, damn the hardships that you cause!
Where are the alternatives, Ben?
Wind is only a supplement.
Solar is not ready for prime time, and will only be a supplement.
Furthermore, if you want to talk about honesty, you anti-coal people keep showing dirty, sooty smokestacks, when you know that most of what comes out of a MODERN coal fired plant is steam.
You greens are not at all willing to say that you want to hurt the economy, kill jobs, raise prices and stop economic progress because of “global warming” so you are trying to make people believe that these plants will spew dark black smoke into the air?
YOUR side is being dishonest, Ben, and you know it.
BJ
I want what is best for my State and for America.
I do not like screwed up liberal ideas that cost jobs and raise prices.
You will benefit, as well, from energy production, just as I will.
Even if you are not smart enough to appreciate it.
Wind is only a supplement. Tell that to Rock Port, MO, a town completely powered by wind power:
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/04/14/daily11.html
And I suppose all those off the grid homes are just fictional like this one:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/04/off-grid-homes.php
“Not all of it is bad as you infer.”
I never said it was bad Paul - I simply pointed out that Neufeld’s claim that it was a proven technology was and is a lie. I happen to be a strong advocate od algae (’pond scum’) research - AS YOU KNOW!
“YOU are attacking what, Ben? You are attacking Neufelds “algae” idea, YOU are attacking technology.”
LIE PAUL! I have never attacked the algae idea. I have attacked the BS claim that it is ‘ready for prime time’ as Neufeld claims.
“Wind is only a supplement.”
LIE!
“Solar is not ready for prime time”
It is a lot closer than algae!
“OK, maybe that idea won’t work, however —
YOU have yet to give an idea that WILL work”
MORE LIES! We HAVE shown technology that works. Neufeld has not with his deliberate lies that even you now admit “maybe won’t work”
“You greens are not at all willing to say that you want to hurt the economy … ”
MORE FRESHMAN LIES! We scientists do NOT want to hurt the economy. Unfortunately you coal advocates don’t want to admit that you want to devastate agriculture, kill ag jobs, screw up the food supply, deplete our water, etc etc etc. We scientists understand such things.
And, those of us who have taken economics and finance understand the interlinking of agriculture with the rest of the economy.
“I want what is best for my State and for America.
I do not like screwed up backward ideas that cost jobs and raise prices.
You will benefit, as well, from energy conservation and environmental protection, just as I will.
Even if you are not smart enough to appreciate it”
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[…] American_Way once again delivers unbelievable content. Comment on Sebelius right to reject weak coal compromise by … is a great read and is truly remarkable. Below is a brief overview of what was released: […]
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Sent: 24 January 2006 20:14…