There’s endless talk about reforming earmarks, although in truth, they represent a fraction of the federal budget. In 2007, Congress approved 12,884 earmarks totaling more than $18 billion in spending in lawmakers’ districts.
By contrast, the Government Accountability Office just released a report blasting the Pentagon for cost overruns and waste in major weapons systems totaling $295 billion. The report also said that none of the projects had met best-management standards and most were years behind schedule.
Moreover, it’s unclear whether some of the weapons, such as a new $81 billion submarine, are even useful in a war on terror dominated by improvised explosive devices and suicide bombers.
Why aren’t candidates or the media talking more about reining in runaway defense spending?
74 Comments
Why? O, could it be maybe all the candidates are beholden to the business side of killing people? With the government paying so much in cost overruns, the recipients of that largess should have no problem feeding it back to candidates who can keep the gravy train going, both Republican and Democrat.
J M Walker,
While I do agree that there’s plenty of defense pork to go around (i.e. Norm Dicks and Todd Tiahrt squealing in unison like stuck Boeing pigs), do give credit to folks like Henry Waxman for at least TRYING to exercise some sort of Congressional oversight.
There are reasons why the expense request for Iraq and Afghanistan seem to always be “emergency funding requests”. Such requests are outside the normal restrains of the budget and do not have the oversight that a normal request would have. Its an easy way to hide costs and cover cost over runs, the effects are coming out. In the form of bad construction of both our military and the civilian building in Iraq. And even the deaths of our military personnel.
such as a new $81 billion submarine, are even useful in a war on terror
There is more going on in the world than the Middle East. Venezuela is purchasing former Russian subs. Any idea why? With Exxon-Mobile and Bush doing everything they can to piss off Chavez, I’m thinking the $81 million sub might not be such a bad idea.
Reports: Venezuela to buy subs from Russia
edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/04/04/russia.venezuela.ap/index.html
Russian Subs for Venezuela
http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,142817,00.html
CF2K,
The only ones I referred to were the candidates. I do applaud all who are attempting to stop the flood, but this is about cost overruns in excess of 200% on some projects. This is about accountability and how no one, other than a few, seem to either care, or are in the middle of the excess. It goes way beyond pork. And both parties have their collective snouts in the trough.
I would liked to see how much each elected congressional person is getting in donations from the defense industry; that would be telling. Anybody got a link?
Thanks Sol I was going to point that out, the world nor the military revolves around terrorism. In fact the military is ill equipped to handle terrorism. You are using a sledge hammer to drive a finishing nail. Its like using a fifty caliber machine gun to hunt cotton tails. You may hit one but it will be hard to find it amongst the surrounding damage.
We spend more on our US military than the entire world spends on all the other militaries in existence.
We spend two times MORE as a percentage of GDP than England, France or South Korea. We spend three to five times more as a percentage of GDP than Japan, China, or China.
More than half of our income taxes — which do not pay for Social Security and Medicare since special taxes pay for those programs — go to funding the military.
Income taxes have really become war taxes.
Remember that when you send in your tax returns by April 15th: income tax is war tax.
But thank God Halliburton is doing so well . . .
Correction: three to five times more as a percentage of GDP than Japan, China or Germany.
(clears throat and fluffs it up like a Democrat)
Yeah…and (bleummpphh furthermore, the inequality of the masses depend on the superfluous pomposity of our demagoguery. (dlummerqueak wonk wonk)
It’s not just DC anymore. Now we have the Kansas State Senator Road to an abandoned ammo dump.
Sounds like the Alaska bridge to no where.
Where do these people get off spending our money like that?
Ah yes, that wonderful liberal double speak!
Before they were blaming the Republicans for going to war with out body armor and vehicles with armor…
Every now and then they will say we spend too much money on the military…
They almost always oppose developing anything new or spending the money to impliment it…
And later they will complain about why we didn’t have X to fight…
Liberals would equip our military with sling shots and then complain about the cost of rocks for them and then complain about how many of our men and women are killed during war because they only had sling shots and not enough rocks.
Where’s your lion and tin man, “Nathan?” –
You’ve already got the straw man.
There are plenty of documented cases where politicians force boats, aircraft, and other pork barrel systems the Pentagon does not want.
Maybe you got too used to sitting on the Marine Corps’ $800 toilet seats and your return to civilian life. There’s plenty of evidence you’re full of something involving a sewer system.
Most people want government to spend money responsibly. But the Pentagon, especially under the failed stewardship of Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and George WMD Bush, has been spending like drunken sailors.
Consider the case of how a couple of unqualified 20-somethings managed to bag a $300 million contract to provide munitions to Afghan forces then lied about where they were coming from; sending surplus (and illegal) 40-year-old Chinese ammo instead of the new Hungarian-manufactured shells they contracted for.
Nathan,
It’s about accountability and the Pentagon. But you seem to endorse 200% cost overruns? You support elected officials being bought and paid for by the defense industry? If you think it’s not happening, on both sides of the aisle, you indeed have your head in the sand.
This ain’t a partisan issue: it’s about ripping off the American taxpayer.
JM Walker,
I am not talking about oversight on spending. I am talking about not supporting new weapons systems which is routinely done by the left.
People like CapnAmerica don’t make specific comments about oversight on pork or forced projects. He was blatantly saying in general we spend too much. As do many other liberals.
That is what my comments were based on.
Of course I agree that there needs to be oversight and we need to make sure the Pentagon is being responsible.
The war-machine shills just don’t get. We spend “defense” dollars not to protect the ordinary soldier–who are just blue-collar labor after all and utter expendable according to the fat-cats running thing–but to funnel billions to contractors.
It’s welfare-for-the-rich writ large.
And the latest example is the renewed “star wars” defense program that will defend us from exactly nothing, but will funnel tax-payer money by the hundreds of billions to rich corporations.
CapnAmerica,
That star wars program will do many things and has already done some.
It will help better protect us from independant states having the ability to launch any type of ICBM attack against us.
In the long run it will lead to perhaps a system which will stop or at least diminish most of a serious attack against us.
The technology also bleeds over into other theater missle deffense systems which protect against SCUD type missles and leads to better anti-ship missle defense and the like.
Hardly welfare for the rich.
“I am not talking about oversight on spending. I am talking about not supporting new weapons systems which is routinely done by the left.”
Of course you’re not talking about it — there has never been any oversight to speak of — Haliburton was counting on it —- in there business plan.
Give a valid example of when a liberal blocked building or research of a new weapon system. It was Reagan and Bush 1 who started the cutback when the cold war ended — went from a planned fleet of 120 + B2’s to 25 You and Jimmy Mac are cut from the same cloth and if I remember corectly they scuttled a couple of planned submarines — but no one ever cut funds for stealth technology, laser technology — shoot what administration put us on the moon?
Small minded idiots …
That star wars program will do many things and has already done some.
It will help better protect us from independant states having the ability to launch any type of ICBM attack against us.
In the long run it will lead to perhaps a system which will stop or at least diminish most of a serious attack against us.
Right. Then we’ll all visit the fairy princess together.
Pseudoscience funded with tax dollar$. Wonderful.
Could someone else get this one for me? The pathetic history of SDI is easily googleable. Thanks!
Later, folks.
If we don’t waste these billions of dollars on useless military programs and weapons then the terrorists will win.
McCain’s plan to balance the budget after his $200 billion in tax cuts for the rich is to eliminate those $18 billion in earmarks. Can someone do the math for me and show me how that balances out?
“More than half of our income taxes — which do not pay for Social Security and Medicare since special taxes pay for those programs — go to funding the military.
Income taxes have really become war taxes.”
Technically, considering only income taxes, and the budget, true. However, considering all tax receipts, including corporate INCOME tax, not quite the same picture. See
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873746.html
for more specific details.
According to estimates the war and the military budget (provided by littlejohn’s link) cost each household nearly $500 in taxes.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/81554/
You pay your bill yet Doug?
Star Wars – has yet to shoot down a simulated incoming missile that did NOT have a tracking device.
Do ya’ think we can get all our enemies to agree to install a tracking device on their ICBM’s?
Maybe we can also ask them to give us a week or two notice that they are going to attack.
And, don’t fire more than one missile at a time.
And no decoys please.
If attacked, let’s just surrender – in advance.
WS Clark,
So what if they had a tracking device? When the tracking device is being used to “track” the missle for the test… DUH!
Quit reading those websites CapnAmerica does.
“If attacked, let’s just surrender – in advance.”
Who is going to attack us? Are you still scared of some old guy, living in a cave, hooked up to a dialysis machine? Max, thanks for admitting you’re a scared little child. Do you need a teddy bear?
“So what if they had a tracking device?”
Duh? The REAL incoming missiles will not be equipped with such devices………………..
The interceptor missile had to hone in the tracking device to be able to “shoot it down.”
Do you think that Russia or China would be so kind as to install tracking devices on their ICBM’s?
That lil man in the cave took out over 2,000 Americans in NYC and at the Pentagon.
You forget about that Doug?
Oh, and did you pay your $500 war bill yet?
WS Clark,
This is where I ask you for proof for your BS.
Show me your proof for where all the missles intercepted so far, were only intercepted because the missle shooting them down had to track their tracking device.
Oh Max, so scared and so stupid. Did you pee yourself just a little bit writing that?
Doug,
Are you speaking from experience on peeing one’s self?
Nathan, the mock warheads do indeed give off tracking signals.
http://www.cdi.org/missile-defense/tests-gmd.cfm
Add to the fact the tests have to be done in good weather. Just imagine if some camel riding terrorists who live in caves have to launch their ICBMs during a time when it’s raining. Then again, only Max thinks some barely trained militia in Afghanistan has access to such missiles.
Silly Nathan, try to remember that you are constantly outmatched in wits on this forum. It’s best you just shut up unless you want to humiliate yourself further. Go cry to your daddy if you are going to throw another temper tantrum.
Caaaaan you feeeeeel the looooove tonight?
Doug,
Try to keep up. The claim was not if the missles had a tracking system, but if that tracking system was used by the interceptor to ensure a hit.
Where is the proof?
And keep in mind WS Clark said “all” hits were due to this.
And the answer is: NO!
Doug hasn’t paid his $500 war bill yet. Ya see folks, Doug isn’t paying for the Iraq war. He doesn’t pay taxes.
But Doug sure does like to complain about the cost of the Iraq war, even though he isn’t paying for it.
Nathan,
Try reading. I already posted a link from the cdi website that said they used tracking systems in order to acquire info on where the mock warheads were and where they were going. Don’t blame me because you are too stupid to read.
Failure after failure:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2007/05/25/missile_defense/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A700-2004Dec15.html
20 billion dollars in Earmarks from our Democratic controlled congress is not chicken feed. And which Congress approved the DoD budget this year (albeit late)?
The media and the people should not trivalize 20 billion dollars, otherwise we will never get the bloated federal government appropriations reduced.
And yes, there is room in my mind for the DoD to cut it’s budget too. Maybe give up some new toys. Maybe RETHINK the defense/foreign policy at the top political levels. We are a debtor nation, yet we still THINK like we are a giant. Bring the troops home from S Korea, Japan, Bosnia, Germany, the rest of Europe, Iraq, and everywhere else. Stop providing billions to Eygpt, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the rest of OPEC, and a dozen other foreign countries. Stop sending 30 billion to fight aids in Africa. Stop paying rich farmers to not grow crops. The list goes on.
And realize: we cannot be all things to all people all the time. We cannot afford new entitlement programs, at least until we find a way to fund the ones we already have going broke.
9.9 billion in debt. I am not overreacting nor do I believe we should turn isolationist for world events. Just realize we are freaking broke!
Max,
How do you figure that I’m not paying my taxes. You have any proof of that? Put up or shut up liar.
Doug is so brave.
Sitting in a wheat field in the middle of Kansas, facing down the terrorists who struck America in NYC and DC.
I thought that’s why they built HARP up there in Alaska for…
*ducks*
You wouldn’t answer Chas, er I mean Doug.
You btiched about the $500 Iraq Bill, then you didn’t say if you paid it yet.
Did you!
If so, my bad.
You are the only one claiming that I never paid my taxes Max. Yup, you are a liar. But it’s not like you had any credibility to begin with.
Of course sitting in a wheat field in the heartland of America, it’s difficult for someone with half a brain to understand the potential threat of an ICBM, SLBM, Space Launched or terrorist nuke brought in via truck.
Russis is still flying bomber runs over the arctic.
How stupid are you Doug?
Russia
China
Iran
Pakistan
Terrorists
All are potential threats to the US. Only a wide-eyed stupid Liberal would fail to understand the need to defend the USA.
Still no answer.
crickets
crickets
crickets
PS. Just lie Doug, and say you do pay taxes!
Thanks, Doug, I was just about to enter into Google Land.
You saved me the time.
So, Price, no bullshit.
Nathan,
Of course it’s about many new weapons systems the democrats don’t wish to fund: Gee, ya wonder why? How about the republicans who got those approved, but then dropped the ball by not holding the contractors up to fiscal scrutiny? So if the taxpayer is paying 100% over and above the contracted price, and there is no accountability, why do you think anything new should be funded?
FIX THE SYSTEM FIRST!
By the way………..
In summer 2002 MDA ceased providing detailed intercept information and declined to answer technical questions about decoys on grounds of national security.[19]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Missile_Defense
During the First Gulf War, we were told that the Patriot Missile Defense system had a kill rate of over 90% (if memory serves.) After the war, we found out that the inverse was true.
So Max, your argument is that these countries are so eager to destroy their economy and infrastructure as to engage in a preemptive war against America? Have you ever thought that other countries don’t share America’s stupid foreign policy? You’re just a paranoid, scared little child especially when you fear a tiny, non-aggressive country like Iran.
“9.9 billion in debt.”
Ah, $9.3 TRILLION.
Ya’ slipped a decimal point.
Max
Posted April 7, 2008 at 12:03 pm | Permalink
Of course sitting in a wheat field in the heartland of America, it’s difficult for someone with half a brain to understand the potential threat of an ICBM, SLBM, Space Launched or terrorist nuke brought in via truck.
==============================================
I mean, ya, it’s not like there were ever any missile silos here or anything . . . just saying.
Once again… Doug, WS Clark,
The claim was made that ALL missles that were shot down, were only because they had a tracking device in them that the interceptor used.
Neither of you have shown a shred of evidence for that.
Yep, there is a good possibility that Iran will launch an ICBM towards us.
Then we will fire 300 nuclear warhead equipped ICBM’s at them.
Then they will all be dead.
Yep, good possibility of that playing out.
/sarcasm/
“Neither of you have shown a shred of evidence for that.”
Now WHO has the reading comprehension issue?
Nathan, how many times must it be repeated. I already provided a link that said tracking systems installed on the mock warheads were used. Since you are intellectually lazy let me quote for you:
” Because the radar is in a position where it cannot completely track the missiles, a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver on the mock warhead emitted location data”
This was from the Oct 1999 test which successfully shot down a missile. What is so hard to understand? Once again I am astonished at being unable to explain things clearly enough.
“Ah, $9.3 TRILLION.”
$ 9,445,093,447,157*
http://zfacts.com/p/461.html
Every penny counts!
Thanks I overestimated the latest change.
Doug,
The mere fact that a tracking device was on the simulated warhead doesn’t prove that the intereceptor had to use it or did use it to hit the simulated warhead as WS Clark claimed every test hit did.
Now what part of that don’t you get?
WS Clark,
Now what part of that don’t you get? Liar.
“Now what part of that don’t you get? Liar.”
Tsk, tsk, Price, a good little boy like you calling names? I am shocked.
“had to use it or did use it”
So, explain to us, Price, all-knowing expert, what was the device THERE for if they didn’t use it?
“The mere fact that a tracking device was on the simulated warhead doesn’t prove that the intereceptor had to use it or did use it to hit the simulated warhead as WS Clark claimed every test hit did.”
Sheesh, I quote and you still can’t read. There is no possible way to dumb myself down any further. I’m guessing you never did very well on those Iowa Basic Skills tests in school, especially the reading comprehension section. Oh well, you can’t cure stupid.
“So, explain to us, Price, all-knowing expert, what was the device THERE for if they didn’t use it?”
Oh, oh lemme answer! Could it possibly be something like, “A C-band transponder on the mock warhead gave off location information”
WS Clark,
It could have been there for any number of reasons.
You still have not backed up your claim.
“You still have not backed up your claim.”
It’s like talking to a brick wall.
“It could have been there for any number of reasons.”
What? It was a free option thrown in by the military contractor, like sport wheels or an upgraded sound system?
Like a brick wall.
There is no point in trying to discuss this with you.
WS Clark,
Asking a question doesn’t prove anything.
You claimed that the tracking device was being used in every hit to aid the interceptor missle.
Where is your proof?
Asking why it would be there otherwise is not proof.
Once again, your ability to grasp simple concepts in argument and logic is failing.
“Once again, your ability to grasp simple concepts in argument and logic is failing.”
What’s the point, Price? Doug provided you with proof and you choose to believe that the technology wasn’t used, even though it was there.
The Pentagon used to provide details of the tests, including the tracking device information. As I posted above, they no longer release technical information. You can choose to ignore it if you want. You choose to believe that the tests were “real life.”
So what point is there in discussing it with you? This is just a waste of time, like trying to discuss evolution or science with you.
End of debate, thanks for playing. It has been a pleasure…………..
WS Clark,
Instead of providing any shred of proof to back up your claim, go ahead and run along now…
Good bye.
Price, please STFU. You are just making an ass of yourself now.
WS Clark,
Having a tracking device could easily have been used to provide data on the test from all aspects, it doesn’t mean it was being used by the intercepting missile to hit the target.
If you have proof otherwise, please share.
Really, I don’t think it was used as a tag, myself. I just think it was superfluous. I don’t think it was needed as a tag, we coulda hit the target in 1 or 2
dozen shots or so anyway. J/K
Very little could’ve been ascertained from an added tracking device that couldn’t be derived from other means, hence the superfluous.
Y’all are so quick to lambast people for conspiracy theories while doing everything to exacerbate the problem and nothing to alleviate it.
Of course Nathan likes the Star Wars Defense idea.
Billions, perhaps trillions, on a program that doesn’t work and makes us less safe.
Wow.
It’s like Bush in a bottle . . .
From Tanker Todd today:
LATEST NEWS
On Wednesday, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) rejected effort’s by the Air Force and Northrop Grumman to have portions of Boeing’s Tanker protest bid thrown out. This means the GAO has agreed to look at all aspects of Boeing’s protest without pre-maturely dismissing any part of the protest. This is great news and a good step forward.
I will continue to aggressively fight this decision in Congress. I am currently finalizing legislation that will help create a level playing field for American workers and manufacturers.
nd
——————————————–
Now if we can just get him to aggressively fight for more oversight of DoD and War on Terror expenses — he may save his job
FYI
He has a blog —-
http://www.house.gov/tiahrt/tankerblog/
Just a question here. Doesn’t the photo at the top of this post look like Bill Self as he goes from the mere $1.4 million salary to the $2.who knows salary?
My parents are convinced he is worth it, and though I like him, I am not sure…
Posted April 7, 2008 at 10:03 am | Permalink
“I am not talking about oversight on spending. I am talking about not supporting new weapons systems which is routinely done by the left.”
Of course you’re not talking about it — there has never been any oversight to speak of — Haliburton was counting on it —- in there business plan.
Give a valid example of when a liberal blocked building or research of a new weapon system. It was Reagan and Bush 1 who started the cutback when the cold war ended — went from a planned fleet of 120 + B2’s to 25 You and Jimmy Mac are cut from the same cloth and if I remember corectly they scuttled a couple of planned submarines — but no one ever cut funds for stealth technology, laser technology — shoot what administration put us on the moon?
Small minded idiots …
Nathan how about answering my question — narrow minded dim wit
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Pee Female Pee Pee Hole…
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view…