Whatsoever ye shall ask the father in my name. He will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.’
Romans 12:19 - Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Here is a nice takedown of the “arguments” made in Ben Stein’s ID-propaganda piece, “Expelled.”
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“If you can’t argue for your position on intellectual grounds, try politics. If you can’t succeed with legitimate political argument, resort to ad hominem attacks. That’s what the Intelligent Design (ID) movement has been reduced to, especially in Expelled. ID creationists have produced no credible argument against the theory of evolution, let alone positive evidence for design, a point to which I’ll return. Politically their fortunes have been devastated ever since the 2005 Dover, Pennsylvania court decision in which a George W. Bush-appointed Church-going judge found ID to be religious dogma that cannot legally be introduced in public school science classes. So now we are presented with a new line of attack: because natural selection was invoked by the Nazis in support of genocide, the theory of evolution must be false. To this, David Klinghoffer adds a new twist: if you believe in the theory of evolution, you are an anti-Semite.
That evolutionary theory, especially natural selection, has been abused by various groups for nefarious political ends is old and well-worn history. In the United States it inspired Social Darwinism in the late nineteenth century which was used to justify the greed of the robber barons and the appalling conditions in which the poor were forced to live. In many regions of the world it was used to promote eugenics, including the involuntary sterilization of the “unfit.” In the United States, such sterilization continued until 1981. And, yes, natural selection was invoked by the Nazis.
What this history tells us is that science does not occur in a socio-political vacuum.We Have Moral Faculties *Because* We Evolved Them The results of science may be abused, just as they may be used to benefit society. Biology is particularly prone to such use and abuse because its domain includes humans. Scientists should recognize their moral responsibility to guard against the misuse of their work. By and large, biologists have acted responsibly in this respect. In the 1930s, the great British evolutionary biologist, J.B.S. Haldane exposed the fallacies of eugenics and anti-Semitism in his brilliantly argued Heredity and Politics. In the 1980s, Not in Our Genes, by Dick Lewontin, Steve Rose, and Leon Kamin, played the same role after illegitimate political claims began to be reintroduced in the name of behavioral genetics and sociobiology. When the Human Genome Project was initiated in the early 1990s, biologists took care to ensure that adequate resources were deployed to address its ethical, legal, and social implications.
Returning to the theory of evolution, there is no “inner logic” of natural selection that leads to any moral or political implication. It is value-neutral. We have evolved a mind and, with it, culture as well as moral capacities and what we think of as free will. Some biologists think that this was all due to natural selection. Others suspect that a variety of natural mechanisms were involved in mental evolution. This is one of the exciting unresolved issues in evolutionary biology, and the subject of ongoing research. Biology may constrain our physical and mental capacities but, in normal individuals (those whom the courts would consider as “legally competent”), biology has never been shown to determine moral choices. We are responsible for our actions. For instance, if we choose to use our religious or political dogmas to harm science education for children, we must bear the moral responsibility that entails.
Note, moreover, there was antisemitism before Darwin and it persists today in many religious fundamentalist circles which are entirely hostile to the idea of evolution. The theory of evolution is thus obviously not the source of antisemitism. Given the long history of Christian antisemitism, is particularly odd that apologists for Christianity, as most ID creationists are, should try to use disgust with antisemitism for their own rhetorical and political purposes. Note, also, that what inspired Hitler in Mein Kampf as much as biology was the example of the United States. By Klinghoffer’s logic, we should also reject much of our own heritage simply because it inspired Hitler.
The evidence for evolution is overwhelming and available from a wide variety of sources including the National Center for Science Education. ID creationism has presented no viable alternative. Its main argument has been that complex life forms could not have evolved. In response, biologists such as Jerry Coyne, Richard Lenski, Ken Miller, H. Allen Orr, and many others have routinely pointed out the variety of mundane mechanisms by which complex systems can emerge through natural selection. I have recently summarized these arguments in Doubting Darwin? Creationist Designs on Evolution. In fact, what has surprised most of us is how rapidly complexity can evolve: For instance, it took less than seventy years for bacteria to evolve resistance to some pesticides even though it required concerted changes in several different enzymes.
Worse, ID creationists have never laid out what their theory is supposed to be, besides vague mystical invocations of “design.” We have never been given an exact definition of design, or the laws it is supposed to obey. These creationists have not even been able to generate a research program. This is one of the reasons why the Templeton Foundation stopped funding the Discovery Institute.
Let us return one last time to the logic of Expelled (and Klinghoffer). Let us suppose for the sake of argument that the theory of evolution really led to some undesirable political consequence, which, as we have seen, is simply not true. From this assumption, it is supposed to follow that evolutionary theory is false and we should replace it with ID. Let us see where this takes us. From the usual rules of chemistry many nations, including the United States, have designed chemical weapons. From this, should we conclude that chemistry is false and we should replace it with Intelligent Alchemy? From the principles of molecular genetics, many of these same nations have designed biological weapons. Should we declare molecular genetics false and replace it with Intelligent Pangenesis? From quantum mechanics came the nuclear bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Therefore, quantum mechanics is false and should be replaced by Intelligent Ether Theory?”
-Sahotra Sarkar is a Professor of Philosophy and Integrative Biology at the University of Texas, Austin
“Global demand for U.S. agricultural products has increased significantly over the past several years. China and India are but two examples where growing affluence is leading to changes in diet and overall food demand. Helping add to export demand is the devaluation of the dollar. This makes corn, soybeans, wheat and other commodities produced in the United States particularly attractive to overseas buyers.
Above the farmer in the food chain are processors, distribution systems and grocery stores. We are all familiar with how energy prices are affecting the retail costs of goods. Food products are no different. And because of the refrigerated nature of much of the food system, those delivery costs can be even higher. Labor costs also are a factor. Finally, food suppliers are raising food prices simply because they can.”
And, yes, there is ethanol.
Bob Stallman is president of the American Farm Bureau Federation in Washington, D.C.
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Regular
Posted April 21, 2008 at 7:43 am | Permalink
Romans 12:19 - Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
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# Taoism: Shit happens.
# Confucianism: Confucius say, “Shit happens.”
# Buddhism: If shit happens, it isn’t really shit.
# Zen Buddhism: Shit is, and is not.
# Zen Buddhism #2: What is the sound of shit happening?
# Hinduism: This shit has happened before.
# Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah.
# Islam #2: If shit happens, kill the person responsible.
# Islam #3: If shit happens, blame Israel.
# Catholicism: If shit happens, you deserve it.
# Protestantism: Let shit happen to someone else.
# Presbyterian: This shit was bound to happen.
# Episcopalian: It’s not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve the right wine with it.
# Methodist: It’s not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve grape juice with it.
# Congregationalist: Shit that happens to one person is just as good as shit that happens to another.
# Unitarian: Shit that happens to one person is just as bad as shit that happens to another.
# Lutheran: If shit happens, don’t talk about it.
# Fundamentalism: If shit happens, you will go to hell, unless you are born again. (Amen!)
# Fundamentalism #2: If shit happens to a televangelist, it’s okay.
# Fundamentalism #3: Shit must be born again.
# Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us?
# Calvinism: Shit happens because you don’t work.
# Seventh Day Adventism: No shit shall happen on Saturday.
# Creationism: God made all shit.
# Secular Humanism: Shit evolves.
# Christian Science: When shit happens, don’t call a doctor - pray!
# Christian Science #2: Shit happening is all in your mind.
# Unitarianism: Come let us reason together about this shit.
# Quakers: Let us not fight over this shit.
# Utopianism: This shit does not stink.
# Darwinism: This shit was once food.
# Capitalism: That’s MY shit.
# Communism: It’s everybody’s shit.
# Feminism: Men are shit.
# Chauvinism: We may be shit, but you can’t live without us…
# Commercialism: Let’s package this shit.
# Impressionism: From a distance, shit looks like a garden.
# Idolism: Let’s bronze this shit.
# Existentialism: Shit doesn’t happen; shit IS.
# Existentialism #2: What is shit, anyway?
# Stoicism: This shit is good for me.
# Hedonism: There is nothing like a good shit happening!
# Mormonism: God sent us this shit.
# Mormonism #2: This shit is going to happen again.
# Wiccan: An it harm none, let shit happen.
# Scientology: If shit happens, see “Dianetics”, p.157.
# Jehovah’s Witnesses: >KnockKnock< Shit happens.
# Jehovah’s Witnesses #2: May we have a moment of your time to show you some of our shit?
# Jehovah’s Witnesses #3: Shit has been prophesied and is imminent; only the righteous shall survive its happening.
# Moonies: Only really happy shit happens.
# Hare Krishna: Shit happens, rama rama.
# Rastafarianism: Let’s smoke this shit!
# Zoroastrianism: Shit happens half on the time.
# Church of SubGenius: BoB shits.
# Practical: Deal with shit one day at a time.
# Agnostic: Shit might have happened; then again, maybe not.
# Agnostic #2: Did someone shit?
# Agnostic #3: What is this shit?
# Satanism: SNEPPAH TIHS.
# Atheism: What shit?
# Atheism #2: I can’t believe this shit!
# Nihilism: No shit.
Are we being “hosed” with our own tax dollars?
The NYT reports that virtually all of those retired generals posing as talking heads on Fox, etc., were organized and prepped at our expense by the Pentagon to sell and rationalize Bush’s War. Is that kosher? Could that model of propaganda be used by state government? City, county, school district? Should reporters and editors clarify, e.g., “Gen. McInerney is representing the White House . . .?”
1) Expelled quotes Charles Darwin selectively to connect his ideas to eugenics and the Holocaust.
When the film is building its case that Darwin and the theory of evolution bear some responsibility for the Holocaust, Ben Stein’s narration quotes from Darwin’s The Descent of Man thusly:
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. Hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.
This is how the original passage in The Descent of Man reads (unquoted sections emphasized in italics):
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.
The producers of the film did not mention the very next sentences in the book (emphasis added in italics):
The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil.
Darwin explicitly rejected the idea of eliminating the “weak” as dehumanizing and evil. Those words falsify Expelled’s argument. The filmmakers had to be aware of the full Darwin passage, but they chose to quote only the sections that suited their purposes.
YES JMWalker! Isnt it just amazing to what extent some will spread their brand of hatred to prove Truth to be False, and a LIE to be true?
Absolutely Amazing! People, Wake Up! This is happening all around us every day! And what is more amazing is how many are buying the LIE! Brings back memories of Nazi Propagandists, who believed that if you tell the LIE often enough, and long enough, even good people will believe it!
This is the day of the meet up between Steven Davis, J R, Regular and Nathan.
Steven Davis will now get his chance to show those mysterious documents he’s always been wanting to show. Will he do it and for what purpose?
It’s about control folks. The Leftist Libs on this blog want total control of the blog. They want the first, middle and last words.
They will use any means to do so, including personal blackmail as has been shown in the past.
What duh Libs don’t know, is that some of us don’t care about blog status and could care less what “documents” they think they might have.
Some of us look at this blog as meeting point of conflicting view points, some as a social entertainment and some for release of daily pressures. The reasons are as different as the people who attend the blog to write their opinion.
I know Steven Davis didn’t invite me out to be cordial or he would have said so. So we shall see if Steven Davis’s master plan works.
He might find his efforts will be disappointing and the results not what he was expecting.
Me? I’m going to be cordial and polite. I’m eager to meet people I’ve only talk to online.
I’m sure J R will be ever so eager to give his spin on the meet up.
Why duh Libs assign so much importance to this blog, I’ll never know, because it is really not that important compared to real life.
Funny thing — I dont recall reading anything on this Blog about any documents. I only remember Steven Davis saying he would buy lunch at the Watermark. If not for a Board of Directors meeting, I would make the journey to Watermark myself. Perhaps another day!
Regular, if the story is falling apart, how do you account for the judge’s order that ALL of the children be DNA tested, followed by parents?
That doesnt sound like the end of the story. The phone call might have been a hoax. That person appears to be a mental case, and has done such things before about other matters.
I only have one mysterious document that I am going to show you at the request of another poster. As far as me wanting to show you documents, I am not sure I know what you are talking about. There exists evidence that is contrary to some of your claims, but I hardly feel any need to discredit you.
I’d invite you to Denny’s if I was wanting to cause you any trouble. It would be cheaper there and that would be a place wherein I don’t have much of an investment. I am in hopes that it is possible to have a civil conversation with you.
I have some kind of master plan?, man, your paranoia endows me with all kinds of power, I don’t have. In meeting me, maybe you can figure that out.
Paranoia at its base is a defense against fear. You have no reason to be afraid of me. I dare so, noone does. I am quite pleased about that, actually.
The document I have is an email from another poster. I don’t know that the email proves anything, actually. I found it kind of amusing, and I thought you might, too.
My theory actually is, that while Hank, Nathan, Reg, etc. ask for civility, they really don’t want it. That would be my only unstated hypothesis. This will be a test of that assertion. Challenge you to prove me wrong. Being wrong would be quite welcome to me.
Finally, I want to say a word about the basic decency I have seen in Mr. Obama. Mrs. Clinton continues to throw the Rev. Wright up in his face as part of her mission to keep stoking the fears of White America. Every time she does this I shout at the TV, “Say it, Obama! Say that when she and her husband were having marital difficulties regarding Monica Lewinsky, who did she and Bill bring to the White House for ’spiritual counseling?’ THE REVEREND JEREMIAH WRIGHT!”
But no, Obama won’t throw that at her. It wouldn’t be right. It wouldn’t be decent. She’s been through enough hurt. And so he remains silent and takes the mud she throws in his face.
Cap whether we like it or not this will remain a part of the campaign. Once the democrat candidate has been decided it will be the republicans pointing this out. Then whether or not he was at the White House will be irrelevant.
Obama probably should have been more closely looked at long ago instead of being given a pass by the MSM. The entire episode calls into question his judgement. His ability to be discerning enough with those he draws closest to him.
Should be an interesting summer and fall leading up to the election.
It’s about control folks. The Leftist Libs on this blog want total control of the blog. They want the first, middle and last words.
They will use any means to do so, including personal blackmail as has been shown in the past.
*****
Once again, the Reguliar takes no responsibility and asks for no apology. Instead he throws up a red herring to put those that have attacked his lies on the defensive.
There was one reason and one reason only that so many post-ers have attacked Reguliar’s posts over the years.
He lies. He knows this. We know this.
He amuses himself by lying on The Blog, making up stories about things that he hasn’t done (I got an award from the Gov for working on Christmas), making up stories about evil libs (they slashed my tires), making up stories about being married and not being married, fighting in Vietnam and being too young to fight in Vietnam, being white and also being black.
Reasonable people don’t like being lied to and call him out on this to which he answers flippantly just as he has above, why duh Libs assign so much importance to this blog, I’ll never know, because it is really not that important compared to real life.
First of all, things that one posts on the Weblog relate to important events in real life.
Second of all, lying is lying, the venue is irrelevant. People don’t like to be lied to.
The issue is not at all about control. The issue is entirely about truth, and whether Reguliar is going to be truthful or not.
His refusal to apologize for his past actions or even to acknowledge them does not give one hope for his future behavior here.
Maybe Mrs. Nobody-Knows-The-Trouble-I-Seen will remember a few reasons why the black community may not look at the United States as a beacon of hope and freedom if she bothers to read the following–
June 1963 to June 1965 I was pastor of First United Methodist Church in Fort Deposit, Alabama.
Lowndes County, Alabama, had at that time about 1,900 whites of voting age and around 2,100 registered voters, none of them black since Reconstruction. Yet there were over 6,000 blacks of voting age. A county Registrar told me they had one black farmer come to register, they handed him the forms to take home to complete, and advised him strongly not to bring it back, which he did not.
Black maids in Mobile at that time were being paid $6.00 a day, plus lunch and bus fare. Black maids in Fort Deposit got $1.50 a day and “tote,” meal left-overs.
My wife hired a maid but we told her there was no way we could pay her less that $6.00 a day. She replied that she could not accept that. “If I did, the word would get out and I’d be the one to pay, not you. They’d take it out on me.”
A black woman working as a maid five days a week could make $390 a year. If she worked 6 days a week, she would earn $468 a year. If she could not work and had three children, Alabama welfare would pay her about $500 per year.
In the local barbershop one Saturday, one farmer asked another why he had fired his new maid, since that maid had a reputation for being a hard worker. The former employer responded, “She wouldn’t f-k me. Ain’t about to have a nig-r work for me who won’t f-k.”
A man who served on a jury bragged that in a case where a black man had shot and killed another before over 100 witnesses the jury did not even retire to deliberate the verdict. They returned a “Not Guilty” verdict with the side comment, “Send him back to kill some more.” Justice in Lowndes County and a number of other counties in Alabama depended on the race and social position of the plaintiff, that of the defendant, and that of the victim.
One week I learned a local member of my church (who never attended it) had sat in his car in front of the church with a machine gun because he had heard a rumor that a busload of blacks were coming to that church that past Sunday.
At that time, in the 1960s, peonage still existed in the rural South. A black tenant farmer in Lowndes County, according a group of whites there, had planned to sneak off and move to a tenant farming position in a nearby county. The landowner heard, rode on horseback to the tenant’s house, called him out to the porch, and shot him in cold blood with a shotgun with impunity.
A white, married deputy sheriff was reported to have shot and killed a young black man because he had asked the deputy’s black “girlfriend” for a date.
Before Bloody Sunday at the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, I got a call from a Justice Department attorney. He asked if I would come talk to him and his partner in Selma about the conditions in Lowndes County. (The longest stretch of the Selma-Montgomery March was to be through Lowndes County.) I readily agreed to meet them, at his direction, at the Selma Holiday Inn at midnight Saturday night. “Don’t go to the desk and ask for us. Don’t park in the lot on our side of the motel, but on the opposite side, and come knock on our door.”
I talked with them, told what little I knew about the County. As I readied to go home, one said to me, “If word gets out in the community that you talked with us, call the FBI. But don’t call the Montgomery office (35 miles from my parsonage). Call the Mobile office (150 miles away), and ask for this specific agent. We know you can trust him.”
The FBI agents at that time were often in collusion with the Ku Klux Klan and some Klan groups used the money paid to their self-chosen FBI informant to purchase weapons and dynamite.
The urban centers of the South and the North have a large number of black residents, many of them only one generation from Black Belt Southern counties, if not themselves from them. While urban areas tended to be less brutal, degradation and abasement was an everyday experience for blacks both North and South. Black boys from early childhood were constantly cautioned never to look a white woman in the eye. Black girls were reminded daily never to be alone with a white male.
The degradation, the brutality of those years are seared in the collective memories of the black community. Vestiges of those days still remain in the patterns of some whites toward blacks.
To add to these tragedies, the same, if a little softer, patterns of behavior were visited on poor whites, especially the tenant farmers and their families. Even worse, the poor whites were often convinced by those in power that their debased station was caused by blacks. As Will D. Campbell has asserted, “The white power structure stole the blacks’ labor, but worse, they stole the poor whites’ minds.”
Also, the same sentiments, even the same words as those excerpted from Rev. White’s sermons have been expressed for years on TV and radio by white preachers condemning America for allowing abortion, for permitting use of alcohol, for prohibiting King James Version readings in public schools, for teaching sex education, and endless other issues. We treat those as normal and understand from whence they come.
I would, as a white Southerner, amend Rev. Wright’s words: “God has already damned America!” We saw and pretended we did not see. We heard and said nothing. We whites attended superior schools with textbooks while blacks in rural Alabama had only 3 months education a year, and that only to the 7th grade with no books. We ate the fruits of better education, of higher wages, of superior positions, and we were silent.
If God is just, He has already damned America!
Dallas A. Blanchard
United Methodist Minister (Retired)
Professor Emeritus, University of West Florida
11542 Clear Creek Drive
Pensacola, Florida 32514
I tremble for my country, for I know that God is just, and His justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson
In Iraq, Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr has warned he will soon declare an open war unless the US-backed Iraqi government halts its crackdown on his supporters.
Sadr’s aide, Nassar Al-Rubai, read part of the cleric’s message.
Nassar Al-Rubai: “I’m giving the last warning and the last word to the Iraqi government: either it comes to its senses and takes the path of peace, or it will be seen as the same as the previous government. If they don’t come to their senses and curb the infiltrated militias, then we will declare an open war until liberation.”
Major General Rick Lynch, the commander of US forces in central Iraq, responded by threatening to strike back if Sadr launches a new uprising. The US has already stepped up its attacks on members of Sadr’s Mahdi Army in Baghdad and Basra. US helicopter gunships and Predator drones have been repeatedly firing missiles into Sadr City. At least 280 Iraqis have died in Sadr City over the past month. The US military is also building a twelve-foot-high wall around most of Sadr City.
President Bush is heading to New Orleans today to meet with his Mexican and Canadian counterparts for a summit on the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America. Critics of the SPP accuse Bush of pushing a new NAFTA-plus deal with Mexico and Canada that would cover security, immigration, the environment, business, food regulation and other issues. Amnesty International and other critics accused the North American leaders of negotiating the deal in secret without meaningful public debate.
A legislative panel in Arizona has endorsed a proposal that would prohibit public schools in Arizona from any teachings that overtly encourage dissent from the values of American democracy and western civilization. The Arizona Republic reports the measure would also prohibit students of the state’s universities and community colleges from forming groups based in whole or part on the race of their members, such as the Black Business Students Association at Arizona State University or Native Americans United at Northern Arizona University. Such groups would be forbidden from operating on campus. The sponsor of the bill, Representative Russell Pearce, said he doesn’t want taxpayer dollars used to indoctrinate students in what he characterized as anti-American or seditious thinking. Critics say the bill would essentially destroy the Mexican American study program in the state’s public schools, colleges and universities, as well as student groups such as the Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan.
In other food news, a new study by the University of Kansas has found that genetic modification reduces the productivity of crops. The Independent of London reports the study undermines repeated claims that a switch to the controversial technology is needed to solve the growing world food crisis. Researchers found that genetically modified soya produces about ten percent less food than its conventional equivalent.
And a prominent pro-Palestinian activist in Texas has died after drowning in a lake. Riad Hamad was the founder of the Palestine Children’s Welfare Fund and raised millions of dollars through his organization for schools, charitable organizations and hospitals. Local police say Hamad was found gagged and bound in the lake. While police say he likely committed suicide, questions have been raised over his death. Prior to his death, Hamad had been under FBI surveillance. In late February, FBI and IRS agents raided his office and seized forty boxes of tax returns and other documents. No charges were filed at the time, but investigators claimed they had probable cause to investigate wire fraud, bank fraud and money laundering. Riad Hamad was fifty-five years old.
To comment on Ethanol Fuel. Why deplete our food source? We pay out the same amount a week for the combination of our needs for life. We are sitting back and letting the Government manipulate what % we spend on what. They beef up their stock and personal interest in the products, then they manipulate the stock for personal gain. They manipulate the trends. They depleted or sandbagged the fuel/oil stack. They bought it up cheap and then develop corn gas. They dumped their stock in agriculture, except for the fuel crops. They make up any differences in increased prices thru us. This is wrong. Where we save on one item we pay more on another. We in this, end up paying a little more across the board in the shuffle. This is “Insider Trading”!! Prison are full of people who got set up or are taking the fall, because they were different than the current system doing the exact same thing to us know. Its not that it was wrong, it was that it was them, not the current system. I hope they get replaced with tactics just as dirty. Downside, this justifies the current actions. It states, the actions/intentions are not wrong, just survival of the fitest. Barbarack or what?? Herbert West III west.herb@yahoo.comhttp://www.wen2k.com
5.3 × 10 to the 18th kg = mass of atmosphere
1.4 × 10 to the 21st kg = mass of ocean.
As you can see the mass of the ocean is orders of magnitude greater than the mass of the atmosphere, and we’ve managed to screw it up pretty good, so I don’t want to hear any more about the “puny efforts of man.”
This article tells you more about Obama then his position on gun-control:
Barack Obama’s Slippery Oratory
by Wayne LaPierre, Executive Vice President
NRA Standing Guard - April 11, 2008
To understand Barack Obama on the Second Amendment, you have to know about the clash of character between the then-Chicago state senator and an ordinary citizen who exercised his right to armed self-defense in violation of a local gun ban.
That citizen was a 52-year-old resident of Wilmette, Illinois, who, on Dec. 28, 2003, woke to find that, during the night, his home had been invaded by a career criminal; a thief who stole household items, keys and the homeowner’s car.
The victim, Hale DeMar, described his fear in a letter to the Chicago Sun- Times: “For me, the seconds until I found my children still safely tucked in their beds were horrifying . . . The police were called and in routine fashion they came, took the report and with little concern left, promising to increase surveillance. Little comfort, since the invader now had keys to our home and our automobiles. The police informed me that this was not an uncommon event in east Wilmette and offered their condolences . . .” Not 24 hours after the first burglary, the thief returned. Using DeMar’s house keys, the man entered the home, this time setting off the alarm system, automatically notifying the security company. Given the previous night’s lackluster response by police, DeMar was prepared, armed with a handgun–legally purchased years before and kept in a safe. But under Wilmette’s gun ban, that firearm in the home was illegal.
DeMar confronted the criminal, and believing his children were in danger, shot the burglar, who then fled the home.
“Until you are shocked by a piercing alarm in the middle of the night and met in your kitchen by a masked invader as your children shudder in their beds, until you confront that very real nightmare, please don’t suggest that some village trustee knows better … “If my actions have spared only one family from the distress and trauma that this habitual criminal has caused hundreds of others, then I have served my civic duty and taken one evil creature off of our streets, something that our impotent criminal justice system had failed to do, despite some thirty odd arrests, plea bargains and suspended sentences.” The burglar, who was arrested after driving DeMar’s stolen SUV to a hospital, had an extensive criminal record.
Cook County prosecutors ultimately declared DeMar’s use of a firearm to be justified. But Wilmette village officials pressed nonetheless to prosecute him for illegal possession of his handgun–a charge punishable by a huge fine and jail time. A town official was quoted in Reason magazine saying, “We need to set the example that we’re trying to protect our citizens.” And he said, DeMar–by possessing a legally purchased handgun–”is endangering innocent civilians.” The outcry of the Illinois public was heard all the way to the state capitol.
As a result, the Illinois House and Senate passed legislation in May 2004 to protect citizens who use handguns in self-defense in their homes or businesses despite local handgun bans.
The House accepted the DeMar selfdefense bill by a vote of 86-25 and the Senate moved the legislation on a 38-20 vote.
And here lies the seminal moment for state Senator Barack Obama. When Obama turned thumbs down on the bill, he voted against the most basic element of the Second Amendment– the right of defense of self and family– the reason that millions of Americans own firearms.
When the governor vetoed the bill, Obama once again voted against a citizen’s right to self-defense.
Despite his vote, the veto override passed the Senate and the House by overwhelming majorities, thereby enacting this bill into law.
Now, fast forward to today’s slippery oratory of U.S. Sen. Barack Obama just three years from being an unknown state senator–now morphed by the media into a spellbinding u.s. senator seeking to be president of the United States.
Using words like “protecting sportsmen,” Obama is now saying that he believes in the Second Amendment … but with almost universal exceptions, all of which he lists under the heading of “common sense gun safety laws.” “Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like endorsing the D.C. gun ban, which outlaws armed self-defense in the home–now being challenged before the u.s. Supreme Court. Obama, who as president would be in the position to nominate justices to that high court, has declared that the d.c. ban doesn’t violate the Second Amendment.
“Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? In a “1998 National Political Awareness Test,” he pledged to support a “Ban [on] the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons”–meaning most handguns and many rifles and shotguns that you and I own.
“Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like demanding that the federal government preempt the 40 hard-won state laws creating Right-to-Carry.
Here’s how the Chicago Tribune put it: “Obama said he opposed allowing ordinary citizens to carry concealed weapons and that a federal law banning concealed carried weapons except for law enforcement is needed.” “Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like the draconian proposals funded to the tune of $18,000,000 by the rabidly anti-gun Joyce Foundation while Obama was an activist member of its board of directors.
Obama’s alleged support of the Second Amendment is utterly cynical and false. Barack Obama is not for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms; he`s out to destroy it.
I guess in a Nanny State, Big Government will meet our every need. We won’t even need to defend ourselves in our homes any more. We’ll live in little Social Security Villages.
Question # 3: If you believed the allegations as outlined in No. 1 and No. 2; why the hell would you believe any other allegation made by the state of texas or the unnamed informant?
Max grows his own food, sews his own clothing after making the cloth from home grown fiber, builds his own house from his own timber after digging his own ore to make his own steel and forging his own nails, and has his own school and training center; and most impressive, has his own paper mill.
The only thing anyone does himself, Max, is breath.
Thanks Sol. You dont have to convince me about frankenfoods.
This is a great farm to school program. I know Texas has similar programs to get healthy foods into schools, but ya know, when the school cooks are, as the link says, not able to peel potatoes or carrots, well, you see the difficulty. It isnt cost.
Texas also has farm to work programs where fresh food farmers bring their wares directly to the workplace for delivery. Works great.
Too bad an “ag” state like Kansas cant do something similar….
“The only thing anyone does himself, Max, is breath(e).”
The question is beber, does someone “owe” you anything more than that?
Are you “entitled” to all the things you mention Max must do himself? Is there some constitutional requirement to provide for every citizen’s welfare all the things in life?
As much as I dislike Clinton and think she is a self-serving liar, she is far-far less dangerous to the future of the U.S. than Obama. Though personally I think comparing them to each other is a little like trying to compare the lethality of snake venom, and having to choose your poison.
Then again that’s a personal opinion, but I do think that both can and will seriously undermine the basic constitutional premises this country was founded on and has or did flourished under.
Those folks that hate Bush so much and fear MCCain is a simply copy, and I’m not hear to argue the Bush hate point at all, should simply think about the way Clinton and Obama consistently have voted to place the state above the individual and our freedoms. The 2nd. Amendment issue is but one example, a clear and important one though, among the many that their voting records clearly prove that they place their faith in big government, and that the people of the country must me ‘managed’ according to their recipe right down to the small details. Please examine their records and not simply accept the political pandering verbiage we get through the news media.
We seem to be standing in the cross-hairs of a new era — where the power is to a large extent shifting from the people to the government. To secure its dominance, the proponents of a large, liberal, increasingly socialist government are using every available means to take away individual freedom and responsibility and therefore our dignity and self-respect by the use of entitlement programs, the redistribution of wealth and earnings, and the taking of private property from the people.
Ours is rapidly becoming a radically different country than the one the Constitution established and the one I grew up in admiring and feeling so privileged to be born into.
One day, when what is passing is but a page in history, those reading will wonder what we were thinking to have let this happen.
Think long and carefully what the politicians are saying and promising. Are they offering freedom with equal opportunity? Or are they promising a cornucopia of entitlements, at great expense, that they can’t deliver, and with even more government control and less individual freedom. Efforts instead directed towards equal outcomes where eventually everyone will have little of anything. When they promise too much they will also take too much, and they will fail in their promises as well.
AmWay, beeber is serious about not having any skills to earn his own way.
Will wait forever to hear them admit to ANY responsibility for themselves. Self-reliance? Forget about it!
High Screwel Lesson 101:
Everybody needs to learn how to DO at least one thing, and do it well. Learn one skill that will earn an income to allow you to buy what you need to support yourself.
Beeber chooses not to learn how to do anything except for holding his tin cup.
“genetically modified soya produces about ten percent less food than its conventional equivalent.”
Havent read any research on this but consider this- If the G.M. allows the stuff to be grown with less chemicals and less water the lower food value may not necessarily be a bad thing.
Unfortunately, I think what you said below is the big Selling Point for the Liberal Democrats. They will gladly, and eagerly surrender their Freedom in exchange for the Government promise that their every need will be taken care of for free, or almost free, by Big Government.
They don’t care about Freedom!
“Are they offering freedom with equal opportunity? Or are they promising a cornucopia of entitlements, at great expense, that they can’t deliver, and with even more government control and less individual freedom. Efforts instead directed towards equal outcomes where eventually everyone will have little of anything. When they promise too much they will also take too much, and they will fail in their promises as well.”
This is the most parnoid fear mongering I have seen since I visited on a psych ward at State Mental Hospital 20 years ago!! You people are so full of it!
Sounds good. Gonna have to get you to air mail me some real foor some time.
Thoughts?
My problems with frankenfood go far beyond fewer chemicals and yield.
I don’t have the link, but they ‘made’ some frankencorn that was supposed to be feed for livestock. Tested it on rats. Ate their damn stomach out.
I am against GM food. I am against over medicated livestock (antibiotics, hormones and steroids). I don’t want to nor by any stretch for my kids to eat this crap.
I have located a farmer that plane grazes his cows. They eat what is in the field and that is about it. I am pursuing a farmer’s market that only sells real produce.
These chemicals and engendered foods are good for no one but big business. Girls are growing breasts at 10 or 11 years old. That just isn’t right. We are facing super bugs from over medicating our livestock and our kids. We just don’t know enough about the long term effects to keep ingesting these chemicals and genetically engineered foods.
SquarePeg Posted April 21, 2008 at 11:58 am |
“This is the most parnoid fear mongering I have seen since I visited on a psych ward at State Mental Hospital 20 years ago!! You people are so full of it!”
SquarePeg,
Come on, are you sure it was a visit?
How’d ya escape?
Seems to me nature is pretty good at growing grain. Also seems to me that America has just over 300 million souls. Don’t know where 6-9 billion came from…
But hey, if ingesting frankenfood and hormones and steroids and bovine antibiotics is what blows your skirt up, party on dude.
You guys! LOL. You shout, “The sky is falling, the sky is falling!”, because a Democrat may be elected president!
I understand your fear if you believe your own rhetoric and your misrepresentations of proposed policies. But I don’t believe half of what you claim are the Democrats’ intentions and philosophy. And I am pretty sure you don’t believe it either.
Which recent president has been ripping out parts of the Constitution for his phony “War on Terror?” Your man BushCheney, that’s who.
“European citizens get 5 weeks paid vacation per year for everyone, free full-coverage health care for everyone, generous pays and pensions for everyone (with retirement earlier than here), corporations required to benefit the public, modern public transit systems, child care, clean public-oriented cities, governments responsive to the people instead of the wealthy, the corporations and the big military contractors, … oh I could go on and on about the terrible state of things for Western European citizens…”
“If the conservatives are trying to scare me away from voting for Clinton or Obama by claiming that if elected they will bring us 5 weeks paid vacation a year, free health coverage and the rest, and that the cost will be taxing rich CEOs and corporations — well I gotta tell you I want to get me some of that!”
Like I said, if frankenfood gets you off, tear it up. I found a source for natural beef and will soon for produce as well. I don’t need nor want bovine antibiotics or steroids.
If you want to eat genetically modified grain, knock your self out.
Hitler used this same tactic… blame it on somebody for the economy — Hitleer used Jews… All you bozos have to do to use a hitler speech, is insert the word liberals every place hitler used Juden… SS DD!! And tghat would make each one of you wing nuts ANTI American!!
If I was truly concerhned about young girls devloping breasts at early ages, I sure wouldnt be turning to agriculture as a source. I would be turning to the Endocrinologists and medical researchers..
But perhaps your fear of the medical profession has too much of a stranglehold on you so you will look to an illogical source.
“…but I do think that both [Clinton and Obama] can and will seriously undermine the basic constitutional premises this country was founded on and has or did flourished[?] under.”
Do you think that constitutional protections have fared well under Bush? Just curious.
David B — I like your post — very accurate… The Right Wing is SO living in fear, that they are calling benefits of “PLAIN OLD HARD WORK” — Government hand outs!!
However, if they worked hard at their own jobs, and their employers rewarded them with extremely good benefit packages, they would say that they WORKED for it!!
We need to remember these basics of Life in this World >>>>
“The Four Freedoms are goals famously articulated by United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt in the State of the Union Address he delivered to the 77th United States Congress on January 6, 1941. In an address also known as the Four Freedoms speech, Roosevelt proposed four points as fundamental freedoms humans “everywhere in the world” ought to enjoy:
Freedom of speech and expression
Freedom of religion
Freedom from want
Freedom from fear
His inclusion of the latter two freedoms went beyond the traditional American Constitutional values protected by the First Amendment, and endorsed a right to economic security and an internationalist view of foreign policy that have come to be central tenets of modern American liberalism.”
DavidB,
If you desire those things you mention above in your 1:20pm post why don’t you go earn them yourself? Why do you want a government to provide for you?
The government doesn’t create or provide any of those things, the labors of people do and the government takes from some to give to others to provide universal coverage of those ‘benefits’.
It is legalized theft.
If that’s what you want fine, admit it for what it is though. You want someone else, via government edict, to provide through their labor the benefits you desire that you will have at their expense.
Heck, if it’s so great there, why are you blogging here and not there???
This is preeminently the time to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Nor need we shrink from honestly facing conditions in our country today. This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days.
David B — I like your post — very accurate… The Right Wing is SO living in fear, that they are calling benefits of “PLAIN OLD HARD WORK” — Government hand outs!!
However, if they worked hard at their own jobs, and their employers rewarded them with extremely good benefit packages, they would say that they WORKED for it!!
SquarePeg,
If YOU work for it, and EARN it, you and everyone that does likewise won’t need the government to dictate it through law. Only those that don’t earn it themselves yet want it need a government to take it from someone who HAS earned it and transfer it to them.
Things, like those benefits mentioned, don’t come from nothing, those that are not earned by the person receiving them have been earned by someone else who has had them taken from them.
It’s legalized theft as I said.
Sol for years we have bought meat (free range and corn fed at the end) and produce from the Amish and Mennonites. No hormones in the meat and no antibiotics. Sometimes you get a worm in with a roast-in-ear and the cucumbers might have a rabbit tooth mark but they are tasty not like the supermarket kind which are bred to look good but have lost the taste. Produce with no insecticides is hard to find.
You would think the :: being the CEO of a ‘multimillion dollar’ company he would understand the tax structure better than he does. There is no free lunch and when the workers bees see the drones setting on their hands not lifting a finger but getting the same benefits they do - well I see mutiny coming.
He never did tell the poor on here how to contact him for those benevolent handouts he gives. Well maybe he will let us know today.
Double colon is a rich and powerful CEO? Really? Hope s/he has a DAMN good secretary. Grammar, spelling and capitalization seem not to be on the CEO training schedule.
So all rich and powerful CEO, what health plan do you offer your minions? Do the mail clerks get the same coverage as the VPs? Are you a publicly traded company? I’d just love to see the financial statements.
Actually, there are a lot of restrictions for those who get those benefits in Europe, that they have to live with.
Want to paint that tool shed in your backyard? Pay the licensing fee and taxes for improvements.
Planning to mow the lawn on Sunday? Nope, sorry there is the quiet law that starts at 12 midnight Saturday and lasts until 4 a.m. Monday.
Need some groceries when you get off of work and you live in a small village. Sorry, the doors slam shut a 5 pm sharp.
Snow on your sidewalk. Ordinances state you are responsible and liable for removal. Also, responsible for sweeping and keeping the sidewalk free of trash at all times.
Need a refrigerator bigger than a bread basket? Sorry, you need a special permit and have to pay taxes on the increased sized and energy uses.
Like your fresh milk? 90 percent of milk is sterilized and in metal cans. Pour that on your raisin bran.
Separation of Church and State? Not if you’re in England and there is an official State church which a share of the Tax pie. Churches in Germany also get a share of the Tax pie.
Like to smoke while you’re driving your car. Just don’t do it near any forested areas in Germany (most of Germany) unless you want to pay a $5000.00 fine.
You ’shoot the finger’ at some guy that cut you off. Oops, that’s a criminal offense in Germany and will cost you dearly in fines and fees.
Love to fall asleep with the air conditioner on a lazy Saturday afternoon in the summer? It ain’t happening unless you have lots of extra cash.
You have a bit of rust on ‘ol Betsy’ your 10 year Ford. The police pull you over, impound your car and you MUST get the rust removed, body work done and the car re-inspected before you can use it again. Oh yes, and pay the fine and fees.
Lot’s of other things as well, that Americans would got toes up if they had to live that way because it is not the ‘freedom’ they are used to and one just can’t do what they want, when they want and how they want.
“He never did tell the poor on here how to contact him for those benevolent handouts he gives. Well maybe he will let us know today.”
I never said I would post that information HERE or give it to YOU or any other than the one in need. I ALSO stated clearly MORE than once that that needy person/persons would KNOW how to contact me.
Now, do you understand it this time, or must I continue to repeat it, until it soaks into your brain?
Address to Congress on January 17, 1935, President Roosevelt foresaw the need to move beyond the pay-as-you-go financing of the current Social Security system. “For perhaps 30 years to come funds will have to be provided by the States and the Federal Government to meet these pensions,” the president allowed. But after that, he explained, it would be necessary to move to what he called “voluntary contributory annuities by which individual initiative can increase the annual amounts received in old age.” In other words, his call for the establishment of Social Security directly anticipated today’s reform agenda: “It is proposed that the Federal Government assume one-half of the cost of the old-age pension plan, which ought ultimately to be supplanted by self-supporting annuity plans,” FDR explained.”
Personal savings accounts: Something Bush suggested and now Hillary is pushing.
I think FDR would roll over in his grave if he knew just just how far in debt our nation has become.
Would he still promote social causes?
On SS:
“This law represents a cornerstone in a structure which is being built but is by no means completed–a structure intended to lessen the force of possible future depressions, to act as a protection to future administrations of the Government against the necessity of going deeply into debt to furnish relief to the needy–a law to flatten out the peaks and valleys of deflation and of inflation–in other words, a law that will take care of human needs and at the same time provide for the United States an economic structure of vastly greater soundness.” -August 14, 1935
“I never said I would post that information HERE or give it to YOU or any other than the one in need. I ALSO stated clearly MORE than once that that needy person/persons would KNOW how to contact me.”
Sol, you ignorant B***ard - Chas is not posting here. What is your friggin problem? Cant keep names straight, but you want to tell everybody in Kansas who we should vote for?
“We can never insure 100% of the population against 100% of the hazards and vicissitudes of life, but we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty stricken old age.”
Interesting, FDR was smart enough to know government cannot be all things to all people. Government could and cannot take care of everyone.
Hillary recently said Obama’s healthcare plan would leave 15 million without (free) healthcare.
Having read FDR’s comments, I believe 285 million Americans with healthcare with only 15 million without, is a pretty good percentage. 95 percent of us - have healthcare. Not bad! Certainly not worth changing the entire system.
Mandates will never cover everyone.
“Mandates have not worked with auto insurance. While all drivers are required to have it, 15 percent of the nation’s drivers have none, according to the Insurance Research Council.”
:: it seems as if you and Chas suffer from the same stroke hangover which caps some of your letters. Not sure if it is contagious but you might be breathing the same air.
SquarePeg
Posted April 21, 2008 at 12:01 am
“I will only say this: Its time to clean this place up! You have made this place a tragic representation of the view of the City of Wichita….Is that what you people want? Libs and Cons??…”
Posted April 21, 2008 at 2:58 pm
“Sol, you ignorant B***ard - ”
Now WHO is giving Wichita a bad name, heh?
Guess you don’t practise what you preach.
Holly crap is this what Kansas has to offer in its CEOs? ROFLMAO
You just can’t hide that pathetic writing style, incessant typos, caps lock issues.
LMAO. So, Mr. CEO how will the needy know how to contact you? So you have merger meetings, and you offer freebies to the ‘poor’. So do you work for a public or private company? Are you incorporated? If so, what type of corporation are you? Tax code wise.
I also must note with some degree of amusement, that while I referred to a person of “need” in relation to affordable health insurance, KsGrm prefers to make reference to this said individual as “poor” — Guess that tells us all how KsGrm sees people without affordable health insurance, eh?
AmWay through history we have seen the same social programs tried over and over again. They fail and then we spend the next several years trying to fix it.
I have come to the conclusion that the ultimate failure is because the hand out crowd are some of the weakest minds among us. They think that the workers will just take care of them you know just adopt them and keep on working. Doesn’t take the workers long to nix this and then we have to work to repair the damage done.
I am afraid that is what this next election is about. If all of the hand outs that have been promise come to fuition I fear we don’t have enough workers to support those lazy bums.
I ALSO previously stated that if you yo-yos on this Blog dont leave it alone, that needy individual will be out of luck, for I will pull my offer of assistance to find affordable health insurance. Please note — At NO time did I say our corporation would PAY for said insurance.
But you all have your fun, and keep digging where you dont belong, and the offer will be gone!
You’re the one hanging a shingle out colon. How is it a ‘person of need’ will magically appear on ‘you business’s’ door step knowing that you offer free health care?
What health provider do you go through that allows you to insure non-employees? How does your CFO account for that?
I know what is said by the several admirers of monachy, aristocracy and democracy…when men discourse on the subject. But I chuse to solve the controversy with this small distinction, and it belongs to all three: Any government is free to the people under it (whatever be the frame) where the laws rule, and the people are a party to those lows, and more than this is tyranny, oligarchy, or confusion.
…Government, like clocks, go from the notion men give them; and as governments are made and moved by men, so by them they are ruined too. Wherefore governments rather depend upon men, than men upon government. Let men be good, and the government cannot be bad; if it be ill, they will cure it. But, if men be bad, let the government be never so good, they will endeavour to warp and spoil it to their turn.
William Penn, preface, “Frame of Government for Pennsylvania” April 25, 1682
211 Comments
Whatsoever ye shall ask the father in my name. He will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.’
John 16:23 & 24
Romans 12:19 - Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
If the mid-east is going to overcharge for their commodity, the U.S. and ag. countries ought to gouge the mid-east.
Here is a nice takedown of the “arguments” made in Ben Stein’s ID-propaganda piece, “Expelled.”
**************************************************
“If you can’t argue for your position on intellectual grounds, try politics. If you can’t succeed with legitimate political argument, resort to ad hominem attacks. That’s what the Intelligent Design (ID) movement has been reduced to, especially in Expelled. ID creationists have produced no credible argument against the theory of evolution, let alone positive evidence for design, a point to which I’ll return. Politically their fortunes have been devastated ever since the 2005 Dover, Pennsylvania court decision in which a George W. Bush-appointed Church-going judge found ID to be religious dogma that cannot legally be introduced in public school science classes. So now we are presented with a new line of attack: because natural selection was invoked by the Nazis in support of genocide, the theory of evolution must be false. To this, David Klinghoffer adds a new twist: if you believe in the theory of evolution, you are an anti-Semite.
That evolutionary theory, especially natural selection, has been abused by various groups for nefarious political ends is old and well-worn history. In the United States it inspired Social Darwinism in the late nineteenth century which was used to justify the greed of the robber barons and the appalling conditions in which the poor were forced to live. In many regions of the world it was used to promote eugenics, including the involuntary sterilization of the “unfit.” In the United States, such sterilization continued until 1981. And, yes, natural selection was invoked by the Nazis.
What this history tells us is that science does not occur in a socio-political vacuum.We Have Moral Faculties *Because* We Evolved Them The results of science may be abused, just as they may be used to benefit society. Biology is particularly prone to such use and abuse because its domain includes humans. Scientists should recognize their moral responsibility to guard against the misuse of their work. By and large, biologists have acted responsibly in this respect. In the 1930s, the great British evolutionary biologist, J.B.S. Haldane exposed the fallacies of eugenics and anti-Semitism in his brilliantly argued Heredity and Politics. In the 1980s, Not in Our Genes, by Dick Lewontin, Steve Rose, and Leon Kamin, played the same role after illegitimate political claims began to be reintroduced in the name of behavioral genetics and sociobiology. When the Human Genome Project was initiated in the early 1990s, biologists took care to ensure that adequate resources were deployed to address its ethical, legal, and social implications.
Returning to the theory of evolution, there is no “inner logic” of natural selection that leads to any moral or political implication. It is value-neutral. We have evolved a mind and, with it, culture as well as moral capacities and what we think of as free will. Some biologists think that this was all due to natural selection. Others suspect that a variety of natural mechanisms were involved in mental evolution. This is one of the exciting unresolved issues in evolutionary biology, and the subject of ongoing research. Biology may constrain our physical and mental capacities but, in normal individuals (those whom the courts would consider as “legally competent”), biology has never been shown to determine moral choices. We are responsible for our actions. For instance, if we choose to use our religious or political dogmas to harm science education for children, we must bear the moral responsibility that entails.
Note, moreover, there was antisemitism before Darwin and it persists today in many religious fundamentalist circles which are entirely hostile to the idea of evolution. The theory of evolution is thus obviously not the source of antisemitism. Given the long history of Christian antisemitism, is particularly odd that apologists for Christianity, as most ID creationists are, should try to use disgust with antisemitism for their own rhetorical and political purposes. Note, also, that what inspired Hitler in Mein Kampf as much as biology was the example of the United States. By Klinghoffer’s logic, we should also reject much of our own heritage simply because it inspired Hitler.
The evidence for evolution is overwhelming and available from a wide variety of sources including the National Center for Science Education. ID creationism has presented no viable alternative. Its main argument has been that complex life forms could not have evolved. In response, biologists such as Jerry Coyne, Richard Lenski, Ken Miller, H. Allen Orr, and many others have routinely pointed out the variety of mundane mechanisms by which complex systems can emerge through natural selection. I have recently summarized these arguments in Doubting Darwin? Creationist Designs on Evolution. In fact, what has surprised most of us is how rapidly complexity can evolve: For instance, it took less than seventy years for bacteria to evolve resistance to some pesticides even though it required concerted changes in several different enzymes.
Worse, ID creationists have never laid out what their theory is supposed to be, besides vague mystical invocations of “design.” We have never been given an exact definition of design, or the laws it is supposed to obey. These creationists have not even been able to generate a research program. This is one of the reasons why the Templeton Foundation stopped funding the Discovery Institute.
Let us return one last time to the logic of Expelled (and Klinghoffer). Let us suppose for the sake of argument that the theory of evolution really led to some undesirable political consequence, which, as we have seen, is simply not true. From this assumption, it is supposed to follow that evolutionary theory is false and we should replace it with ID. Let us see where this takes us. From the usual rules of chemistry many nations, including the United States, have designed chemical weapons. From this, should we conclude that chemistry is false and we should replace it with Intelligent Alchemy? From the principles of molecular genetics, many of these same nations have designed biological weapons. Should we declare molecular genetics false and replace it with Intelligent Pangenesis? From quantum mechanics came the nuclear bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Therefore, quantum mechanics is false and should be replaced by Intelligent Ether Theory?”
-Sahotra Sarkar is a Professor of Philosophy and Integrative Biology at the University of Texas, Austin
http://www.jewcy.com/post/intelligent_design_creationism_immoral_fraud
“Global demand for U.S. agricultural products has increased significantly over the past several years. China and India are but two examples where growing affluence is leading to changes in diet and overall food demand. Helping add to export demand is the devaluation of the dollar. This makes corn, soybeans, wheat and other commodities produced in the United States particularly attractive to overseas buyers.
Above the farmer in the food chain are processors, distribution systems and grocery stores. We are all familiar with how energy prices are affecting the retail costs of goods. Food products are no different. And because of the refrigerated nature of much of the food system, those delivery costs can be even higher. Labor costs also are a factor. Finally, food suppliers are raising food prices simply because they can.”
And, yes, there is ethanol.
Bob Stallman is president of the American Farm Bureau Federation in Washington, D.C.
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Regular
Posted April 21, 2008 at 7:43 am | Permalink
Romans 12:19 - Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
==================================================
# Taoism: Shit happens.
# Confucianism: Confucius say, “Shit happens.”
# Buddhism: If shit happens, it isn’t really shit.
# Zen Buddhism: Shit is, and is not.
# Zen Buddhism #2: What is the sound of shit happening?
# Hinduism: This shit has happened before.
# Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah.
# Islam #2: If shit happens, kill the person responsible.
# Islam #3: If shit happens, blame Israel.
# Catholicism: If shit happens, you deserve it.
# Protestantism: Let shit happen to someone else.
# Presbyterian: This shit was bound to happen.
# Episcopalian: It’s not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve the right wine with it.
# Methodist: It’s not so bad if shit happens, as long as you serve grape juice with it.
# Congregationalist: Shit that happens to one person is just as good as shit that happens to another.
# Unitarian: Shit that happens to one person is just as bad as shit that happens to another.
# Lutheran: If shit happens, don’t talk about it.
# Fundamentalism: If shit happens, you will go to hell, unless you are born again. (Amen!)
# Fundamentalism #2: If shit happens to a televangelist, it’s okay.
# Fundamentalism #3: Shit must be born again.
# Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us?
# Calvinism: Shit happens because you don’t work.
# Seventh Day Adventism: No shit shall happen on Saturday.
# Creationism: God made all shit.
# Secular Humanism: Shit evolves.
# Christian Science: When shit happens, don’t call a doctor - pray!
# Christian Science #2: Shit happening is all in your mind.
# Unitarianism: Come let us reason together about this shit.
# Quakers: Let us not fight over this shit.
# Utopianism: This shit does not stink.
# Darwinism: This shit was once food.
# Capitalism: That’s MY shit.
# Communism: It’s everybody’s shit.
# Feminism: Men are shit.
# Chauvinism: We may be shit, but you can’t live without us…
# Commercialism: Let’s package this shit.
# Impressionism: From a distance, shit looks like a garden.
# Idolism: Let’s bronze this shit.
# Existentialism: Shit doesn’t happen; shit IS.
# Existentialism #2: What is shit, anyway?
# Stoicism: This shit is good for me.
# Hedonism: There is nothing like a good shit happening!
# Mormonism: God sent us this shit.
# Mormonism #2: This shit is going to happen again.
# Wiccan: An it harm none, let shit happen.
# Scientology: If shit happens, see “Dianetics”, p.157.
# Jehovah’s Witnesses: >KnockKnock< Shit happens.
# Jehovah’s Witnesses #2: May we have a moment of your time to show you some of our shit?
# Jehovah’s Witnesses #3: Shit has been prophesied and is imminent; only the righteous shall survive its happening.
# Moonies: Only really happy shit happens.
# Hare Krishna: Shit happens, rama rama.
# Rastafarianism: Let’s smoke this shit!
# Zoroastrianism: Shit happens half on the time.
# Church of SubGenius: BoB shits.
# Practical: Deal with shit one day at a time.
# Agnostic: Shit might have happened; then again, maybe not.
# Agnostic #2: Did someone shit?
# Agnostic #3: What is this shit?
# Satanism: SNEPPAH TIHS.
# Atheism: What shit?
# Atheism #2: I can’t believe this shit!
# Nihilism: No shit.
Are we being “hosed” with our own tax dollars?
The NYT reports that virtually all of those retired generals posing as talking heads on Fox, etc., were organized and prepped at our expense by the Pentagon to sell and rationalize Bush’s War. Is that kosher? Could that model of propaganda be used by state government? City, county, school district? Should reporters and editors clarify, e.g., “Gen. McInerney is representing the White House . . .?”
Just one of the points of Expelled:
1) Expelled quotes Charles Darwin selectively to connect his ideas to eugenics and the Holocaust.
When the film is building its case that Darwin and the theory of evolution bear some responsibility for the Holocaust, Ben Stein’s narration quotes from Darwin’s The Descent of Man thusly:
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. Hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.
This is how the original passage in The Descent of Man reads (unquoted sections emphasized in italics):
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.
The producers of the film did not mention the very next sentences in the book (emphasis added in italics):
The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil.
Darwin explicitly rejected the idea of eliminating the “weak” as dehumanizing and evil. Those words falsify Expelled’s argument. The filmmakers had to be aware of the full Darwin passage, but they chose to quote only the sections that suited their purposes.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=six-things-ben-stein-doesnt-want-you-to-know
YES JMWalker! Isnt it just amazing to what extent some will spread their brand of hatred to prove Truth to be False, and a LIE to be true?
Absolutely Amazing! People, Wake Up! This is happening all around us every day! And what is more amazing is how many are buying the LIE! Brings back memories of Nazi Propagandists, who believed that if you tell the LIE often enough, and long enough, even good people will believe it!
oh another place for the evil bible site!
http://www.evilbible.com/
This is the day of the meet up between Steven Davis, J R, Regular and Nathan.
Steven Davis will now get his chance to show those mysterious documents he’s always been wanting to show. Will he do it and for what purpose?
It’s about control folks. The Leftist Libs on this blog want total control of the blog. They want the first, middle and last words.
They will use any means to do so, including personal blackmail as has been shown in the past.
What duh Libs don’t know, is that some of us don’t care about blog status and could care less what “documents” they think they might have.
Some of us look at this blog as meeting point of conflicting view points, some as a social entertainment and some for release of daily pressures. The reasons are as different as the people who attend the blog to write their opinion.
I know Steven Davis didn’t invite me out to be cordial or he would have said so. So we shall see if Steven Davis’s master plan works.
He might find his efforts will be disappointing and the results not what he was expecting.
Me? I’m going to be cordial and polite. I’m eager to meet people I’ve only talk to online.
I’m sure J R will be ever so eager to give his spin on the meet up.
Why duh Libs assign so much importance to this blog, I’ll never know, because it is really not that important compared to real life.
On that squeeze of sour lime, on with the day.
(chortles)
Funny thing — I dont recall reading anything on this Blog about any documents. I only remember Steven Davis saying he would buy lunch at the Watermark. If not for a Board of Directors meeting, I would make the journey to Watermark myself. Perhaps another day!
Peace to you all!
Just out of curiosity, how many people here believed/believe that the beds found in the Fundy Mormon temple were used for sex?
Beber — I doiubt they were there for tornado protection!
#
beber
Posted April 21, 2008 at 9:04 am | Permalink
Just out of curiosity, how many people here believed/believe that the beds found in the Fundy Mormon temple were used for sex?
————————————
Just seems too creepy for me to believe beber.
I don’t think it’s true myself, but one never knows.
This story is already falling apart now that the hoax phone call has been exposed.
Regular, if the story is falling apart, how do you account for the judge’s order that ALL of the children be DNA tested, followed by parents?
That doesnt sound like the end of the story. The phone call might have been a hoax. That person appears to be a mental case, and has done such things before about other matters.
That’s why I said “story” not “case” SquarePeg.
The facts, are not in evidence yet.
Yes, and I also said “story”
SquarePeg
Posted April 21, 2008 at 9:11 am | Permalink
Regular, if the story is falling apart, how do you account for the judge’s order that ALL of the children be DNA tested, followed by parents?
#
SquarePeg
Posted April 21, 2008 at 9:14 am | Permalink
Yes, and I also said “story”
——————————-
That sound you hear is “tap dancing.”
I only have one mysterious document that I am going to show you at the request of another poster. As far as me wanting to show you documents, I am not sure I know what you are talking about. There exists evidence that is contrary to some of your claims, but I hardly feel any need to discredit you.
I’d invite you to Denny’s if I was wanting to cause you any trouble. It would be cheaper there and that would be a place wherein I don’t have much of an investment. I am in hopes that it is possible to have a civil conversation with you.
I have some kind of master plan?, man, your paranoia endows me with all kinds of power, I don’t have. In meeting me, maybe you can figure that out.
Paranoia at its base is a defense against fear. You have no reason to be afraid of me. I dare so, noone does. I am quite pleased about that, actually.
The document I have is an email from another poster. I don’t know that the email proves anything, actually. I found it kind of amusing, and I thought you might, too.
My theory actually is, that while Hank, Nathan, Reg, etc. ask for civility, they really don’t want it. That would be my only unstated hypothesis. This will be a test of that assertion. Challenge you to prove me wrong. Being wrong would be quite welcome to me.
You are making no sense now.
StevenEDavis
Posted April 21, 2008 at 9:17 am | Permalink
I only have one mysterious document that I am going to show you at the request of another poster.
—————————–
See, I was correct.
And my response, why does it matter?
I have no fear of you Steven Davis or I would not show up.
I always give advantage of fairness to people first, what they do with that advantage is up to them.
But, as you can see I was correct about the document. heh
Funny, an email…
Being wrong would be quite welcome to me.
Hey, let me know how being wrong feels. Never happened to me before.
Why Michael Moore endorses Obama:
Finally, I want to say a word about the basic decency I have seen in Mr. Obama. Mrs. Clinton continues to throw the Rev. Wright up in his face as part of her mission to keep stoking the fears of White America. Every time she does this I shout at the TV, “Say it, Obama! Say that when she and her husband were having marital difficulties regarding Monica Lewinsky, who did she and Bill bring to the White House for ’spiritual counseling?’ THE REVEREND JEREMIAH WRIGHT!”
But no, Obama won’t throw that at her. It wouldn’t be right. It wouldn’t be decent. She’s been through enough hurt. And so he remains silent and takes the mud she throws in his face.
Cap whether we like it or not this will remain a part of the campaign. Once the democrat candidate has been decided it will be the republicans pointing this out. Then whether or not he was at the White House will be irrelevant.
Obama probably should have been more closely looked at long ago instead of being given a pass by the MSM. The entire episode calls into question his judgement. His ability to be discerning enough with those he draws closest to him.
Should be an interesting summer and fall leading up to the election.
Reguliar lies that,
It’s about control folks. The Leftist Libs on this blog want total control of the blog. They want the first, middle and last words.
They will use any means to do so, including personal blackmail as has been shown in the past.
*****
Once again, the Reguliar takes no responsibility and asks for no apology. Instead he throws up a red herring to put those that have attacked his lies on the defensive.
There was one reason and one reason only that so many post-ers have attacked Reguliar’s posts over the years.
He lies. He knows this. We know this.
He amuses himself by lying on The Blog, making up stories about things that he hasn’t done (I got an award from the Gov for working on Christmas), making up stories about evil libs (they slashed my tires), making up stories about being married and not being married, fighting in Vietnam and being too young to fight in Vietnam, being white and also being black.
Reasonable people don’t like being lied to and call him out on this to which he answers flippantly just as he has above, why duh Libs assign so much importance to this blog, I’ll never know, because it is really not that important compared to real life.
First of all, things that one posts on the Weblog relate to important events in real life.
Second of all, lying is lying, the venue is irrelevant. People don’t like to be lied to.
The issue is not at all about control. The issue is entirely about truth, and whether Reguliar is going to be truthful or not.
His refusal to apologize for his past actions or even to acknowledge them does not give one hope for his future behavior here.
You are such a right-wing tool, Ksgrm.
I don’t think you were ever a liberal.
Just curious: how many of you believe/believed in that the beds found in the Fundy Mormon temple were used for sex?
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_dallas_b_080419_god_damn_america_3f.htm
Maybe Mrs. Nobody-Knows-The-Trouble-I-Seen will remember a few reasons why the black community may not look at the United States as a beacon of hope and freedom if she bothers to read the following–
June 1963 to June 1965 I was pastor of First United Methodist Church in Fort Deposit, Alabama.
Lowndes County, Alabama, had at that time about 1,900 whites of voting age and around 2,100 registered voters, none of them black since Reconstruction. Yet there were over 6,000 blacks of voting age. A county Registrar told me they had one black farmer come to register, they handed him the forms to take home to complete, and advised him strongly not to bring it back, which he did not.
Black maids in Mobile at that time were being paid $6.00 a day, plus lunch and bus fare. Black maids in Fort Deposit got $1.50 a day and “tote,” meal left-overs.
My wife hired a maid but we told her there was no way we could pay her less that $6.00 a day. She replied that she could not accept that. “If I did, the word would get out and I’d be the one to pay, not you. They’d take it out on me.”
A black woman working as a maid five days a week could make $390 a year. If she worked 6 days a week, she would earn $468 a year. If she could not work and had three children, Alabama welfare would pay her about $500 per year.
In the local barbershop one Saturday, one farmer asked another why he had fired his new maid, since that maid had a reputation for being a hard worker. The former employer responded, “She wouldn’t f-k me. Ain’t about to have a nig-r work for me who won’t f-k.”
A man who served on a jury bragged that in a case where a black man had shot and killed another before over 100 witnesses the jury did not even retire to deliberate the verdict. They returned a “Not Guilty” verdict with the side comment, “Send him back to kill some more.” Justice in Lowndes County and a number of other counties in Alabama depended on the race and social position of the plaintiff, that of the defendant, and that of the victim.
One week I learned a local member of my church (who never attended it) had sat in his car in front of the church with a machine gun because he had heard a rumor that a busload of blacks were coming to that church that past Sunday.
At that time, in the 1960s, peonage still existed in the rural South. A black tenant farmer in Lowndes County, according a group of whites there, had planned to sneak off and move to a tenant farming position in a nearby county. The landowner heard, rode on horseback to the tenant’s house, called him out to the porch, and shot him in cold blood with a shotgun with impunity.
A white, married deputy sheriff was reported to have shot and killed a young black man because he had asked the deputy’s black “girlfriend” for a date.
Before Bloody Sunday at the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, I got a call from a Justice Department attorney. He asked if I would come talk to him and his partner in Selma about the conditions in Lowndes County. (The longest stretch of the Selma-Montgomery March was to be through Lowndes County.) I readily agreed to meet them, at his direction, at the Selma Holiday Inn at midnight Saturday night. “Don’t go to the desk and ask for us. Don’t park in the lot on our side of the motel, but on the opposite side, and come knock on our door.”
I talked with them, told what little I knew about the County. As I readied to go home, one said to me, “If word gets out in the community that you talked with us, call the FBI. But don’t call the Montgomery office (35 miles from my parsonage). Call the Mobile office (150 miles away), and ask for this specific agent. We know you can trust him.”
The FBI agents at that time were often in collusion with the Ku Klux Klan and some Klan groups used the money paid to their self-chosen FBI informant to purchase weapons and dynamite.
The urban centers of the South and the North have a large number of black residents, many of them only one generation from Black Belt Southern counties, if not themselves from them. While urban areas tended to be less brutal, degradation and abasement was an everyday experience for blacks both North and South. Black boys from early childhood were constantly cautioned never to look a white woman in the eye. Black girls were reminded daily never to be alone with a white male.
The degradation, the brutality of those years are seared in the collective memories of the black community. Vestiges of those days still remain in the patterns of some whites toward blacks.
To add to these tragedies, the same, if a little softer, patterns of behavior were visited on poor whites, especially the tenant farmers and their families. Even worse, the poor whites were often convinced by those in power that their debased station was caused by blacks. As Will D. Campbell has asserted, “The white power structure stole the blacks’ labor, but worse, they stole the poor whites’ minds.”
Also, the same sentiments, even the same words as those excerpted from Rev. White’s sermons have been expressed for years on TV and radio by white preachers condemning America for allowing abortion, for permitting use of alcohol, for prohibiting King James Version readings in public schools, for teaching sex education, and endless other issues. We treat those as normal and understand from whence they come.
I would, as a white Southerner, amend Rev. Wright’s words: “God has already damned America!” We saw and pretended we did not see. We heard and said nothing. We whites attended superior schools with textbooks while blacks in rural Alabama had only 3 months education a year, and that only to the 7th grade with no books. We ate the fruits of better education, of higher wages, of superior positions, and we were silent.
If God is just, He has already damned America!
Dallas A. Blanchard
United Methodist Minister (Retired)
Professor Emeritus, University of West Florida
11542 Clear Creek Drive
Pensacola, Florida 32514
I tremble for my country, for I know that God is just, and His justice cannot sleep forever. Thomas Jefferson
Berber–
Unlike you, I’m not interested in the pruient aspects of the case.
The prosecutors need time to build a case.
When I hear the case and its defense, I’ll try to make an informed decision.
Wow! With all the hate filled rhetoric from those who don’t want people to see Expelled, I will have to go see it now!
You do that, Max.
It’ll keep you from blogging for a few hours.
Regular,
Should you be killed or captured, all knowledge of you and your mission will be disavowed.
Good Luck Regular.
This post will self-destruct in 5 seconds.
Sadr Warns of “Open War” in Iraq
In Iraq, Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr has warned he will soon declare an open war unless the US-backed Iraqi government halts its crackdown on his supporters.
Sadr’s aide, Nassar Al-Rubai, read part of the cleric’s message.
Nassar Al-Rubai: “I’m giving the last warning and the last word to the Iraqi government: either it comes to its senses and takes the path of peace, or it will be seen as the same as the previous government. If they don’t come to their senses and curb the infiltrated militias, then we will declare an open war until liberation.”
Major General Rick Lynch, the commander of US forces in central Iraq, responded by threatening to strike back if Sadr launches a new uprising. The US has already stepped up its attacks on members of Sadr’s Mahdi Army in Baghdad and Basra. US helicopter gunships and Predator drones have been repeatedly firing missiles into Sadr City. At least 280 Iraqis have died in Sadr City over the past month. The US military is also building a twelve-foot-high wall around most of Sadr City.
Link
“Unlike you, I’m not interested in the pruient aspects of the case.” — cappy
Without the prurient aspects, there is no case.
Bush Heads to New Orleans for SPP Summit
President Bush is heading to New Orleans today to meet with his Mexican and Canadian counterparts for a summit on the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America. Critics of the SPP accuse Bush of pushing a new NAFTA-plus deal with Mexico and Canada that would cover security, immigration, the environment, business, food regulation and other issues. Amnesty International and other critics accused the North American leaders of negotiating the deal in secret without meaningful public debate.
Link
Arizona Bill to Prohibit Anti-American Teachings
A legislative panel in Arizona has endorsed a proposal that would prohibit public schools in Arizona from any teachings that overtly encourage dissent from the values of American democracy and western civilization. The Arizona Republic reports the measure would also prohibit students of the state’s universities and community colleges from forming groups based in whole or part on the race of their members, such as the Black Business Students Association at Arizona State University or Native Americans United at Northern Arizona University. Such groups would be forbidden from operating on campus. The sponsor of the bill, Representative Russell Pearce, said he doesn’t want taxpayer dollars used to indoctrinate students in what he characterized as anti-American or seditious thinking. Critics say the bill would essentially destroy the Mexican American study program in the state’s public schools, colleges and universities, as well as student groups such as the Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan.
Link
“I tremble for my country, for I know that God is just, and His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jefferson
Hey Capn. Here is the essay from which your Jefferson quote came. Although Jefferson has compassion in mind, some of his views were extremely racist.
http://afroamhistory.about.com/library/bljefferson_slavery.htm
Just for Farmie…
Study: GM Crops Reduces Productivity
In other food news, a new study by the University of Kansas has found that genetic modification reduces the productivity of crops. The Independent of London reports the study undermines repeated claims that a switch to the controversial technology is needed to solve the growing world food crisis. Researchers found that genetically modified soya produces about ten percent less food than its conventional equivalent.
Link
Great Capn, Rev Wright compared to Thomas Jefferson! Jefferson owned slaves, yet Wright is just like Jefferson!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
You are so full of white hate, by showing others made racist comments similar to Wrights, you attempt to justify him, and Obama!
And 10,000 Klansmen can’t be wrong either, just ask Democrat Sen. Byrd.
Max–
I’m typing really slow for you in hopes that this helps.
Jefferson was discussing slavery when he made that quote. He was saying because American still practiced slavery, God would condemn us for it.
The fact that he himself owned slaves shows how conflicted he and many were about the issue–they knew it was wrong but it was just so damn convenient.
We do the same thing today. Look at the Iraq War. Everyone knows it’s wrong, but, damn, do they have a lot of oil or what?
Yeah, I know, outlander. I read it. I also toured his farm.
Palestinian Activist Found Dead in Texas
And a prominent pro-Palestinian activist in Texas has died after drowning in a lake. Riad Hamad was the founder of the Palestine Children’s Welfare Fund and raised millions of dollars through his organization for schools, charitable organizations and hospitals. Local police say Hamad was found gagged and bound in the lake. While police say he likely committed suicide, questions have been raised over his death. Prior to his death, Hamad had been under FBI surveillance. In late February, FBI and IRS agents raided his office and seized forty boxes of tax returns and other documents. No charges were filed at the time, but investigators claimed they had probable cause to investigate wire fraud, bank fraud and money laundering. Riad Hamad was fifty-five years old.
Link
bound and gagged… suicide… On the surface, fails the logic test…
To comment on Ethanol Fuel. Why deplete our food source? We pay out the same amount a week for the combination of our needs for life. We are sitting back and letting the Government manipulate what % we spend on what. They beef up their stock and personal interest in the products, then they manipulate the stock for personal gain. They manipulate the trends. They depleted or sandbagged the fuel/oil stack. They bought it up cheap and then develop corn gas. They dumped their stock in agriculture, except for the fuel crops. They make up any differences in increased prices thru us. This is wrong. Where we save on one item we pay more on another. We in this, end up paying a little more across the board in the shuffle. This is “Insider Trading”!! Prison are full of people who got set up or are taking the fall, because they were different than the current system doing the exact same thing to us know. Its not that it was wrong, it was that it was them, not the current system. I hope they get replaced with tactics just as dirty. Downside, this justifies the current actions. It states, the actions/intentions are not wrong, just survival of the fitest. Barbarack or what?? Herbert West III west.herb@yahoo.com http://www.wen2k.com
White Guilt Capn, you can cure that you know by voting for Obama.
Psssst! HerbertWestIII: This is top secret, just between us:
YOU MIGHT WANT TO POST THIS ON THE RIGHT THREAD.
But personally, I wouldn’t waste the space if I was you.
KansasNative
&
Regular
My THANKS to you both, there’s not a better way to start todays Open Thread.
Lets hope all can keep it in mind as the day and the thread progresses.
5.3 × 10 to the 18th kg = mass of atmosphere
1.4 × 10 to the 21st kg = mass of ocean.
As you can see the mass of the ocean is orders of magnitude greater than the mass of the atmosphere, and we’ve managed to screw it up pretty good, so I don’t want to hear any more about the “puny efforts of man.”
This article tells you more about Obama then his position on gun-control:
Barack Obama’s Slippery Oratory
by Wayne LaPierre, Executive Vice President
NRA Standing Guard - April 11, 2008
To understand Barack Obama on the Second Amendment, you have to know about the clash of character between the then-Chicago state senator and an ordinary citizen who exercised his right to armed self-defense in violation of a local gun ban.
That citizen was a 52-year-old resident of Wilmette, Illinois, who, on Dec. 28, 2003, woke to find that, during the night, his home had been invaded by a career criminal; a thief who stole household items, keys and the homeowner’s car.
The victim, Hale DeMar, described his fear in a letter to the Chicago Sun- Times: “For me, the seconds until I found my children still safely tucked in their beds were horrifying . . . The police were called and in routine fashion they came, took the report and with little concern left, promising to increase surveillance. Little comfort, since the invader now had keys to our home and our automobiles. The police informed me that this was not an uncommon event in east Wilmette and offered their condolences . . .” Not 24 hours after the first burglary, the thief returned. Using DeMar’s house keys, the man entered the home, this time setting off the alarm system, automatically notifying the security company. Given the previous night’s lackluster response by police, DeMar was prepared, armed with a handgun–legally purchased years before and kept in a safe. But under Wilmette’s gun ban, that firearm in the home was illegal.
DeMar confronted the criminal, and believing his children were in danger, shot the burglar, who then fled the home.
“Until you are shocked by a piercing alarm in the middle of the night and met in your kitchen by a masked invader as your children shudder in their beds, until you confront that very real nightmare, please don’t suggest that some village trustee knows better … “If my actions have spared only one family from the distress and trauma that this habitual criminal has caused hundreds of others, then I have served my civic duty and taken one evil creature off of our streets, something that our impotent criminal justice system had failed to do, despite some thirty odd arrests, plea bargains and suspended sentences.” The burglar, who was arrested after driving DeMar’s stolen SUV to a hospital, had an extensive criminal record.
Cook County prosecutors ultimately declared DeMar’s use of a firearm to be justified. But Wilmette village officials pressed nonetheless to prosecute him for illegal possession of his handgun–a charge punishable by a huge fine and jail time. A town official was quoted in Reason magazine saying, “We need to set the example that we’re trying to protect our citizens.” And he said, DeMar–by possessing a legally purchased handgun–”is endangering innocent civilians.” The outcry of the Illinois public was heard all the way to the state capitol.
As a result, the Illinois House and Senate passed legislation in May 2004 to protect citizens who use handguns in self-defense in their homes or businesses despite local handgun bans.
The House accepted the DeMar selfdefense bill by a vote of 86-25 and the Senate moved the legislation on a 38-20 vote.
And here lies the seminal moment for state Senator Barack Obama. When Obama turned thumbs down on the bill, he voted against the most basic element of the Second Amendment– the right of defense of self and family– the reason that millions of Americans own firearms.
When the governor vetoed the bill, Obama once again voted against a citizen’s right to self-defense.
Despite his vote, the veto override passed the Senate and the House by overwhelming majorities, thereby enacting this bill into law.
Now, fast forward to today’s slippery oratory of U.S. Sen. Barack Obama just three years from being an unknown state senator–now morphed by the media into a spellbinding u.s. senator seeking to be president of the United States.
Using words like “protecting sportsmen,” Obama is now saying that he believes in the Second Amendment … but with almost universal exceptions, all of which he lists under the heading of “common sense gun safety laws.” “Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like endorsing the D.C. gun ban, which outlaws armed self-defense in the home–now being challenged before the u.s. Supreme Court. Obama, who as president would be in the position to nominate justices to that high court, has declared that the d.c. ban doesn’t violate the Second Amendment.
“Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? In a “1998 National Political Awareness Test,” he pledged to support a “Ban [on] the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons”–meaning most handguns and many rifles and shotguns that you and I own.
“Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like demanding that the federal government preempt the 40 hard-won state laws creating Right-to-Carry.
Here’s how the Chicago Tribune put it: “Obama said he opposed allowing ordinary citizens to carry concealed weapons and that a federal law banning concealed carried weapons except for law enforcement is needed.” “Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like the draconian proposals funded to the tune of $18,000,000 by the rabidly anti-gun Joyce Foundation while Obama was an activist member of its board of directors.
Obama’s alleged support of the Second Amendment is utterly cynical and false. Barack Obama is not for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms; he`s out to destroy it.
http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=418899
To vote against the right of The People to defend themselves in their own homes, is just wrong.
What kind of man is Obama to take this action?
I guess in a Nanny State, Big Government will meet our every need. We won’t even need to defend ourselves in our homes any more. We’ll live in little Social Security Villages.
It takes a Village you know!
Question # two regarding the fudy mormons:
How many of you believed that an abused young woman living in the texas compound had called authorities.
Question # 3: If you believed the allegations as outlined in No. 1 and No. 2; why the hell would you believe any other allegation made by the state of texas or the unnamed informant?
QUESTION:
Are you Liberal Democrats responsible for any part of your own lives?
I’d really like to know. You don’t seem to be individual responsible for accountable for anything.
1) Food. Are you responsible for your own food?
2) Clothing. Are you responsible for your own clothing?
3) Housing. Are you responsible for paying the rent or the mortgage for yourself?
4) Job skills. Are you responsible for learning some skill (even in public scrools) that will enable you to get a job or run your own business?
5) Wiping. Are you responsible for wiping yourselves?
I’d really like to know if you are responsible for anything in your own lives, or if somebody else is.
If somebody else is responsible for you, then who is that person named “somebody else”?
Oh, and who takes care of “somebody else”?
Max grows his own food, sews his own clothing after making the cloth from home grown fiber, builds his own house from his own timber after digging his own ore to make his own steel and forging his own nails, and has his own school and training center; and most impressive, has his own paper mill.
The only thing anyone does himself, Max, is breath.
Thanks Sol. You dont have to convince me about frankenfoods.
This is a great farm to school program. I know Texas has similar programs to get healthy foods into schools, but ya know, when the school cooks are, as the link says, not able to peel potatoes or carrots, well, you see the difficulty. It isnt cost.
Texas also has farm to work programs where fresh food farmers bring their wares directly to the workplace for delivery. Works great.
Too bad an “ag” state like Kansas cant do something similar….
http://www.kansas.com/508/story/379411.html
Geez, max is even more obnoxious than usual. Have a bad weekend?
Truely, scroll over territory.
“The only thing anyone does himself, Max, is breath(e).”
The question is beber, does someone “owe” you anything more than that?
Are you “entitled” to all the things you mention Max must do himself? Is there some constitutional requirement to provide for every citizen’s welfare all the things in life?
Wasn’t tryin’ to convince you, just know it is a subject near and dear to both of us Farmie.
“Somebody Else” is:
“The Forgotten Man”
By William Graham Sumner
http://www.blupete.com/Literature/Essays/Best/SumnerForgotten.htm
As much as I dislike Clinton and think she is a self-serving liar, she is far-far less dangerous to the future of the U.S. than Obama. Though personally I think comparing them to each other is a little like trying to compare the lethality of snake venom, and having to choose your poison.
Then again that’s a personal opinion, but I do think that both can and will seriously undermine the basic constitutional premises this country was founded on and has or did flourished under.
Those folks that hate Bush so much and fear MCCain is a simply copy, and I’m not hear to argue the Bush hate point at all, should simply think about the way Clinton and Obama consistently have voted to place the state above the individual and our freedoms. The 2nd. Amendment issue is but one example, a clear and important one though, among the many that their voting records clearly prove that they place their faith in big government, and that the people of the country must me ‘managed’ according to their recipe right down to the small details. Please examine their records and not simply accept the political pandering verbiage we get through the news media.
We seem to be standing in the cross-hairs of a new era — where the power is to a large extent shifting from the people to the government. To secure its dominance, the proponents of a large, liberal, increasingly socialist government are using every available means to take away individual freedom and responsibility and therefore our dignity and self-respect by the use of entitlement programs, the redistribution of wealth and earnings, and the taking of private property from the people.
Ours is rapidly becoming a radically different country than the one the Constitution established and the one I grew up in admiring and feeling so privileged to be born into.
One day, when what is passing is but a page in history, those reading will wonder what we were thinking to have let this happen.
Think long and carefully what the politicians are saying and promising. Are they offering freedom with equal opportunity? Or are they promising a cornucopia of entitlements, at great expense, that they can’t deliver, and with even more government control and less individual freedom. Efforts instead directed towards equal outcomes where eventually everyone will have little of anything. When they promise too much they will also take too much, and they will fail in their promises as well.
AmWay, beeber is serious about not having any skills to earn his own way.
Will wait forever to hear them admit to ANY responsibility for themselves. Self-reliance? Forget about it!
High Screwel Lesson 101:
Everybody needs to learn how to DO at least one thing, and do it well. Learn one skill that will earn an income to allow you to buy what you need to support yourself.
Beeber chooses not to learn how to do anything except for holding his tin cup.
Sol Kfg
“genetically modified soya produces about ten percent less food than its conventional equivalent.”
Havent read any research on this but consider this- If the G.M. allows the stuff to be grown with less chemicals and less water the lower food value may not necessarily be a bad thing.
Thoughts?
“Beeber chooses not to learn how to do anything except for holding his tin cup.”
And listen to the tape recording… promising the world as a gift.
But it’s probably an old worn out shoe. Tin has some commercial value.
Yeah Sol, I know. Thanks for thinking of me!
Psssstt…..I’m making Carne Guisada for lunch.
Great post Boxlock at 11:37.
Unfortunately, I think what you said below is the big Selling Point for the Liberal Democrats. They will gladly, and eagerly surrender their Freedom in exchange for the Government promise that their every need will be taken care of for free, or almost free, by Big Government.
They don’t care about Freedom!
“Are they offering freedom with equal opportunity? Or are they promising a cornucopia of entitlements, at great expense, that they can’t deliver, and with even more government control and less individual freedom. Efforts instead directed towards equal outcomes where eventually everyone will have little of anything. When they promise too much they will also take too much, and they will fail in their promises as well.”
This is the most parnoid fear mongering I have seen since I visited on a psych ward at State Mental Hospital 20 years ago!! You people are so full of it!
Carne Guisada for lunch
Sounds good. Gonna have to get you to air mail me some real foor some time.
Thoughts?
My problems with frankenfood go far beyond fewer chemicals and yield.
I don’t have the link, but they ‘made’ some frankencorn that was supposed to be feed for livestock. Tested it on rats. Ate their damn stomach out.
I am against GM food. I am against over medicated livestock (antibiotics, hormones and steroids). I don’t want to nor by any stretch for my kids to eat this crap.
I have located a farmer that plane grazes his cows. They eat what is in the field and that is about it. I am pursuing a farmer’s market that only sells real produce.
These chemicals and engendered foods are good for no one but big business. Girls are growing breasts at 10 or 11 years old. That just isn’t right. We are facing super bugs from over medicating our livestock and our kids. We just don’t know enough about the long term effects to keep ingesting these chemicals and genetically engineered foods.
SquarePeg Posted April 21, 2008 at 11:58 am |
“This is the most parnoid fear mongering I have seen since I visited on a psych ward at State Mental Hospital 20 years ago!! You people are so full of it!”
SquarePeg,
Come on, are you sure it was a visit?
How’d ya escape?
Well said Sol.
“These chemicals and engendered foods are good for no one but big business” — SolDev
How do you propose to feed the six (soon to be nine) billion without them?
Seems to me nature is pretty good at growing grain. Also seems to me that America has just over 300 million souls. Don’t know where 6-9 billion came from…
But hey, if ingesting frankenfood and hormones and steroids and bovine antibiotics is what blows your skirt up, party on dude.
You guys! LOL. You shout, “The sky is falling, the sky is falling!”, because a Democrat may be elected president!
I understand your fear if you believe your own rhetoric and your misrepresentations of proposed policies. But I don’t believe half of what you claim are the Democrats’ intentions and philosophy. And I am pretty sure you don’t believe it either.
Which recent president has been ripping out parts of the Constitution for his phony “War on Terror?” Your man BushCheney, that’s who.
I liked this from bloggerDave Johnson
See: http://preview.tinyurl.com/49uh4w
“European citizens get 5 weeks paid vacation per year for everyone, free full-coverage health care for everyone, generous pays and pensions for everyone (with retirement earlier than here), corporations required to benefit the public, modern public transit systems, child care, clean public-oriented cities, governments responsive to the people instead of the wealthy, the corporations and the big military contractors, … oh I could go on and on about the terrible state of things for Western European citizens…”
“If the conservatives are trying to scare me away from voting for Clinton or Obama by claiming that if elected they will bring us 5 weeks paid vacation a year, free health coverage and the rest, and that the cost will be taxing rich CEOs and corporations — well I gotta tell you I want to get me some of that!”
We import half of our food, Sol.
Like I said, if frankenfood gets you off, tear it up. I found a source for natural beef and will soon for produce as well. I don’t need nor want bovine antibiotics or steroids.
If you want to eat genetically modified grain, knock your self out.
Hitler used this same tactic… blame it on somebody for the economy — Hitleer used Jews… All you bozos have to do to use a hitler speech, is insert the word liberals every place hitler used Juden… SS DD!! And tghat would make each one of you wing nuts ANTI American!!
If I was truly concerhned about young girls devloping breasts at early ages, I sure wouldnt be turning to agriculture as a source. I would be turning to the Endocrinologists and medical researchers..
But perhaps your fear of the medical profession has too much of a stranglehold on you so you will look to an illogical source.
“…but I do think that both [Clinton and Obama] can and will seriously undermine the basic constitutional premises this country was founded on and has or did flourished[?] under.”
Do you think that constitutional protections have fared well under Bush? Just curious.
David B — I like your post — very accurate… The Right Wing is SO living in fear, that they are calling benefits of “PLAIN OLD HARD WORK” — Government hand outs!!
However, if they worked hard at their own jobs, and their employers rewarded them with extremely good benefit packages, they would say that they WORKED for it!!
Well — So do those European people!!
We need to remember these basics of Life in this World >>>>
“The Four Freedoms are goals famously articulated by United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt in the State of the Union Address he delivered to the 77th United States Congress on January 6, 1941. In an address also known as the Four Freedoms speech, Roosevelt proposed four points as fundamental freedoms humans “everywhere in the world” ought to enjoy:
Freedom of speech and expression
Freedom of religion
Freedom from want
Freedom from fear
His inclusion of the latter two freedoms went beyond the traditional American Constitutional values protected by the First Amendment, and endorsed a right to economic security and an internationalist view of foreign policy that have come to be central tenets of modern American liberalism.”
FULL LINK BELOW >>>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms_speech
The Right Wing Rhetoric (or should I say drive) is opposed to these Freedoms. WHY??
Right Wing:
Tell us, PLEASE, of what are you afraid?
drive = drivel
DavidB,
If you desire those things you mention above in your 1:20pm post why don’t you go earn them yourself? Why do you want a government to provide for you?
The government doesn’t create or provide any of those things, the labors of people do and the government takes from some to give to others to provide universal coverage of those ‘benefits’.
It is legalized theft.
If that’s what you want fine, admit it for what it is though. You want someone else, via government edict, to provide through their labor the benefits you desire that you will have at their expense.
Heck, if it’s so great there, why are you blogging here and not there???
“SquarePeg” shares with us those “socialist liberal Democratic Party” threats to civilization:
“Freedom of speech and expression
“Freedom of religion
“Freedom from want
“Freedom from fear”
Amazing.
But for the wingnuts, the only thing they have is fear.
One more from FDR — Please read it carefully:
This is preeminently the time to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Nor need we shrink from honestly facing conditions in our country today. This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days.
Boxlock — PLEASE READ VERY CAREFULLY >>>>
David B — I like your post — very accurate… The Right Wing is SO living in fear, that they are calling benefits of “PLAIN OLD HARD WORK” — Government hand outs!!
However, if they worked hard at their own jobs, and their employers rewarded them with extremely good benefit packages, they would say that they WORKED for it!!
Well — So do those European people!!
“PLEASE READ VERY CAREFULLY” contents may be hazardous to your health.
SquarePeg,
If YOU work for it, and EARN it, you and everyone that does likewise won’t need the government to dictate it through law. Only those that don’t earn it themselves yet want it need a government to take it from someone who HAS earned it and transfer it to them.
Things, like those benefits mentioned, don’t come from nothing, those that are not earned by the person receiving them have been earned by someone else who has had them taken from them.
It’s legalized theft as I said.
so you will look to an illogical source.
Yeah, hormones, steroids. How illogical. What an idiot you are double colon.
Sol for years we have bought meat (free range and corn fed at the end) and produce from the Amish and Mennonites. No hormones in the meat and no antibiotics. Sometimes you get a worm in with a roast-in-ear and the cucumbers might have a rabbit tooth mark but they are tasty not like the supermarket kind which are bred to look good but have lost the taste. Produce with no insecticides is hard to find.
You might see if you can find some close to you.
You would think the :: being the CEO of a ‘multimillion dollar’ company he would understand the tax structure better than he does. There is no free lunch and when the workers bees see the drones setting on their hands not lifting a finger but getting the same benefits they do - well I see mutiny coming.
He never did tell the poor on here how to contact him for those benevolent handouts he gives. Well maybe he will let us know today.
It is impossible to deal in logical discussion when people are SO ULL of fear and hatred!!
Boxlock Government isnt providing for the Europeans… Their HARD WORK is providing their tremendous benefits!! THEIR WORK… NOT their parliament!!
Double colon is a rich and powerful CEO? Really? Hope s/he has a DAMN good secretary. Grammar, spelling and capitalization seem not to be on the CEO training schedule.
So all rich and powerful CEO, what health plan do you offer your minions? Do the mail clerks get the same coverage as the VPs? Are you a publicly traded company? I’d just love to see the financial statements.
Actually, there are a lot of restrictions for those who get those benefits in Europe, that they have to live with.
Want to paint that tool shed in your backyard? Pay the licensing fee and taxes for improvements.
Planning to mow the lawn on Sunday? Nope, sorry there is the quiet law that starts at 12 midnight Saturday and lasts until 4 a.m. Monday.
Need some groceries when you get off of work and you live in a small village. Sorry, the doors slam shut a 5 pm sharp.
Snow on your sidewalk. Ordinances state you are responsible and liable for removal. Also, responsible for sweeping and keeping the sidewalk free of trash at all times.
Need a refrigerator bigger than a bread basket? Sorry, you need a special permit and have to pay taxes on the increased sized and energy uses.
Like your fresh milk? 90 percent of milk is sterilized and in metal cans. Pour that on your raisin bran.
Separation of Church and State? Not if you’re in England and there is an official State church which a share of the Tax pie. Churches in Germany also get a share of the Tax pie.
Like to smoke while you’re driving your car. Just don’t do it near any forested areas in Germany (most of Germany) unless you want to pay a $5000.00 fine.
You ’shoot the finger’ at some guy that cut you off. Oops, that’s a criminal offense in Germany and will cost you dearly in fines and fees.
Love to fall asleep with the air conditioner on a lazy Saturday afternoon in the summer? It ain’t happening unless you have lots of extra cash.
You have a bit of rust on ‘ol Betsy’ your 10 year Ford. The police pull you over, impound your car and you MUST get the rust removed, body work done and the car re-inspected before you can use it again. Oh yes, and pay the fine and fees.
Lot’s of other things as well, that Americans would got toes up if they had to live that way because it is not the ‘freedom’ they are used to and one just can’t do what they want, when they want and how they want.
KS Grm, Once again, your memory fails you!
“He never did tell the poor on here how to contact him for those benevolent handouts he gives. Well maybe he will let us know today.”
I never said I would post that information HERE or give it to YOU or any other than the one in need. I ALSO stated clearly MORE than once that that needy person/persons would KNOW how to contact me.
Now, do you understand it this time, or must I continue to repeat it, until it soaks into your brain?
FDR:
Address to Congress on January 17, 1935, President Roosevelt foresaw the need to move beyond the pay-as-you-go financing of the current Social Security system. “For perhaps 30 years to come funds will have to be provided by the States and the Federal Government to meet these pensions,” the president allowed. But after that, he explained, it would be necessary to move to what he called “voluntary contributory annuities by which individual initiative can increase the annual amounts received in old age.” In other words, his call for the establishment of Social Security directly anticipated today’s reform agenda: “It is proposed that the Federal Government assume one-half of the cost of the old-age pension plan, which ought ultimately to be supplanted by self-supporting annuity plans,” FDR explained.”
Personal savings accounts: Something Bush suggested and now Hillary is pushing.
SO ULL of fear and hatred!!
Their HARD WORK is providing their tremendous benefits!! THEIR WORK… NOT their parliament!!
Nuff said. LMFAO. How’s it hangin chas.?
I think FDR would roll over in his grave if he knew just just how far in debt our nation has become.
Would he still promote social causes?
On SS:
“This law represents a cornerstone in a structure which is being built but is by no means completed–a structure intended to lessen the force of possible future depressions, to act as a protection to future administrations of the Government against the necessity of going deeply into debt to furnish relief to the needy–a law to flatten out the peaks and valleys of deflation and of inflation–in other words, a law that will take care of human needs and at the same time provide for the United States an economic structure of vastly greater soundness.” -August 14, 1935
Regular, you were last in Germany When?
“I never said I would post that information HERE or give it to YOU or any other than the one in need. I ALSO stated clearly MORE than once that that needy person/persons would KNOW how to contact me.”
Telepathy.
Confusing is it not?
Sol, you ignorant B***ard - Chas is not posting here. What is your friggin problem? Cant keep names straight, but you want to tell everybody in Kansas who we should vote for?
What a poor excuse for crddibility
FDR:
“We can never insure 100% of the population against 100% of the hazards and vicissitudes of life, but we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty stricken old age.”
Interesting, FDR was smart enough to know government cannot be all things to all people. Government could and cannot take care of everyone.
Hillary recently said Obama’s healthcare plan would leave 15 million without (free) healthcare.
Having read FDR’s comments, I believe 285 million Americans with healthcare with only 15 million without, is a pretty good percentage. 95 percent of us - have healthcare. Not bad! Certainly not worth changing the entire system.
Mandates will never cover everyone.
“Mandates have not worked with auto insurance. While all drivers are required to have it, 15 percent of the nation’s drivers have none, according to the Insurance Research Council.”
Hud, I dont believe it is really any of your business. Why dont you try posting something of relevance?
:: it seems as if you and Chas suffer from the same stroke hangover which caps some of your letters. Not sure if it is contagious but you might be breathing the same air.
SquarePeg
Posted April 21, 2008 at 12:01 am
“I will only say this: Its time to clean this place up! You have made this place a tragic representation of the view of the City of Wichita….Is that what you people want? Libs and Cons??…”
Posted April 21, 2008 at 2:58 pm
“Sol, you ignorant B***ard - ”
Now WHO is giving Wichita a bad name, heh?
Guess you don’t practise what you preach.
Clean this place up~!
Like Jesus clearing the temple?
What a poor excuse for crddibility
Holly crap is this what Kansas has to offer in its CEOs? ROFLMAO
You just can’t hide that pathetic writing style, incessant typos, caps lock issues.
LMAO. So, Mr. CEO how will the needy know how to contact you? So you have merger meetings, and you offer freebies to the ‘poor’. So do you work for a public or private company? Are you incorporated? If so, what type of corporation are you? Tax code wise.
I also must note with some degree of amusement, that while I referred to a person of “need” in relation to affordable health insurance, KsGrm prefers to make reference to this said individual as “poor” — Guess that tells us all how KsGrm sees people without affordable health insurance, eh?
Sol, that would be none of your business, however we are not a publicly traded organization. We have always been private. Always!
So chas, er… double colon, exactly which health care plan do you offer ‘those in need’? How does your CFO account for insuring non-employees?
AmWay through history we have seen the same social programs tried over and over again. They fail and then we spend the next several years trying to fix it.
I have come to the conclusion that the ultimate failure is because the hand out crowd are some of the weakest minds among us. They think that the workers will just take care of them you know just adopt them and keep on working. Doesn’t take the workers long to nix this and then we have to work to repair the damage done.
I am afraid that is what this next election is about. If all of the hand outs that have been promise come to fuition I fear we don’t have enough workers to support those lazy bums.
Should be interesting.
I ALSO previously stated that if you yo-yos on this Blog dont leave it alone, that needy individual will be out of luck, for I will pull my offer of assistance to find affordable health insurance. Please note — At NO time did I say our corporation would PAY for said insurance.
But you all have your fun, and keep digging where you dont belong, and the offer will be gone!
Isnt that nice of you?
Sol, that would be none of your business
You’re the one hanging a shingle out colon. How is it a ‘person of need’ will magically appear on ‘you business’s’ door step knowing that you offer free health care?
What health provider do you go through that allows you to insure non-employees? How does your CFO account for that?
I know what is said by the several admirers of monachy, aristocracy and democracy…when men discourse on the subject. But I chuse to solve the controversy with this small distinction, and it belongs to all three: Any government is free to the people under it (whatever be the frame) where the laws rule, and the people are a party to those lows, and more than this is tyranny, oligarchy, or confusion.
…Government, like clocks, go from the notion men give them; and as governments are made and moved by men, so by them they are ruined too. Wherefore governments rather depend upon men, than men upon government. Let men be good, and the government cannot be bad; if it be ill, they will cure it. But, if men be bad, let the government be never so good, they will endeavour to warp and spoil it to their turn.
William Penn, preface, “Frame of Government for Pennsylvania” April 25, 1682
Sol, your stupidity is showing far too blatantly. Please R E A D carefully.