WE Blog

Removing a neighbor because they remind us of they situation we are also in, only invites others to remove us because we are declaring weakness. Love thy neighbor and work with them. They can help build a community instead of just living next door. You can help build a community instead of just living next door. Build strength, not bigotry and denial. Herbert West III, west.herb@yahoo.com http://www.wen2k.com

“HerbertWestIII” –

You can say that again!

wtf is this? Herbie you never show any love for a neighbor.

Unless Herb, the neighborhood where you live is a breakaway Mormon sect ranch. Then, even if you had nothing to do with any wrongdoing, your children can be ripped away from you permanently by the government on the basis of a faked phone call. And since you have chosen a life style different from the rest and people think you are strange, you have no due process.

oops…result OF fear.

Outlander lives a fear based life. Perfect example of what is wrong with America.

Outlander writes:
Most of them have done nothing wrong and yet, they have their children ripped away from them WITHOUT DUE PROCESS.

Were you there? How do you know this?

outlander
Posted April 20, 2008 at 9:16 am | Permalink
The libs are afraid of the goverment collecting bulk information on phone calls.

We aren’t afraid outie, but we know when the Bush admin violated the Constitution and have every right to call foul.

“Civil rights only to the men.” — p.m.

Some of the mothers offered to leave the compound in exchange for the return of their children. This was denied.

Despite claims to the contrary, parental rights are considered a pretty fundamental right in this country. Due process will take place. In the cases of suspected child abuse, the potential danger to helpless victims is seen as a factor making the removal of children until it is determined they can be safe, a reasonable process. Is this traumatic for parents, and sometimes children? I would definitely say yes. But as a recent death of a young child in Wichita demonstrates, there can be worse outcomes.

I recall people making religious freedom arguments about the Branch Davidians (sp), too. I think as the evidence came out, it was pretty clear that those children were exposed to very serious abuse.

I have a close friend who’s written a book and produced a British television expose on the Warren Jeffs cult.

As with most things, people are missing the real societal problem. Don’t be distracted by the forced marriages, religious freedom, the bed-in-the-temple, etc…

Jeffs built his communities by leaching off the taxpayers of Utah, Arizona, and Texas. Since polygamy is illegal all the 2nd, 3rd, 8th wives of these guys are, in the eyes of the state, indigent unwed mothers… and so qualify for all sorts of government benefits.

The media plays up the sex angle but it’s a welfare scam. Pure and simple.

We don’t need cheaper gas, we need alternate forms of energy. Reducing the price of gas short term does nothing to solve the underlying problem.
Many problems could be solved if we weren’t so dependant on fossil fuels.

OPPS..wrong thread!

I see what you’re trying to say in your analogy Outlander. We both know there are differences in my neighborhood and the one these women live in. I am sad for the children and the Mothers but I want it investigated and if there are youngsters being involved in what should be adult sexual behavior it is a lifestyle they need to be protected and removed from.

I fail to see how ANYONE, left or right, can defend this Mormon cult in Texas. This goes way beyond a matter or partisanship. Some of these young women, well under the age of sixteen, have already made children or are pregnant. By definition this is statutory rape and child abuse. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, these mothers have allowed this to happen to their under aged daughters.

The authorities are doing the best they can, given the huge number, 416, of children involved. It will take time to sort out this disgusting mess, but it is best to err on the side of protecting the children.

To assume that the children will be fine with their mothers is an invitation to disaster.

Well, my father and I went to see Expelled last night.

I must say it was even better than I expected.

I love the part where Ben Stein is interviewing Dr. Hawkins and Hawkins says that he believes it might be possible that another advanced civilization could have seeded life here on Earth.

Then there was the other Evolution proponent who believed life began from crystals.

When asked to explain how, he acted like Ben was ignorant for not grasping the concept. It’s crystals, duh!

Well, well, well: so Senator Intemperance–sorry, Senator McCain–apparently got into a shoving match with Senator Charles Grassley after Grassely took umbrage at being called a profane name by Senator McCain.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/19/AR2008041902224_pf.html

Way to go Repukes, succeeding an alcoholic President with a rageaholic candidate.

As for the WaPo’s critical coverage, I guess they’re a bit embarrassed at having so obviously been so far up McCain’s ass.

CF2K, the Muppet Poster, almost had my attention until I realized he was talking about a 1992 incident.

Then the be “Zzzzzz” factor kicked in…

modified the post in mid-stream :D

Clinton Culture of Corruption Campaign Continues

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/041908Burns.shtml

2) In March 2008, the Chicago Tribune reported another connection linking Bill Clinton with the Chinese news industry. Clinton was compensated for his support for an Internet company called Accoona, whose main partner is China Daily Information Co., a subsidiary of Chinese government-run China Daily, the country’s largest English-language newspaper.

Accoona, privately held, paid the former president with options for 200,000 shares of stock for the William J. Clinton Foundation. The Foundation sold the shares in 2006 for $700,000.

As the Tribune reported,

“Twice in the last year, Accoona filed, and subsequently withdrew, plans for a public offering, once on London’s AIM market and more recently in the U.S. on the NASDAQ exchange.

“Accoona’s prospectus for its aborted U.S. offering pointed to some of its difficulties. The company never had made a profit; a co-founder and major shareholder had pleaded guilty to a felony fraud charge; and Accoona’s key partner is a media company controlled by the Chinese government, which often is criticized for censoring the Internet….

“Accoona’s prospectus acknowledged that the company is subject to censorship by the Chinese government and that the “Ministry of Public Security has the authority to order any local Internet service provider to block any Internet Web site at its sole discretion…. Furthermore, we are required to report any suspicious content to relevant governmental authorities.”

China Daily put the Accoona search engine on the front page of its Web version.

Don’t You Dare Follow The Money!

Joan Swirsky

It’s been 34 years since “Deep Throat” advised Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein (as documented in their book, “All the Presidents Men”) to “follow the money” in the Watergate case that resulted in President Nixon’s ignominious resignation.

In rooting out political corruption, that advice still holds, one of the latest examples being the payment schedule that Democrat New York Governor Eliot Spitzer was caught on tape trying to negotiate with his prostitute of choice.

But Spitzer’s self-destructive, career-destroying behavior, like Nixon’s, is small potatoes compared to the filthy-lucre trail of Bill and Hillary Clinton.

In reviewing only a small number of the shady deals both Bill and Hillary have made over the years, it should be clear to any sane American that entrusting Hillary with the U.S. presidency will:

–Threaten our national security.

–Bankrupt our domestic policies.

–Contaminate every treaty and trade deal with questions about their legality.
Mire our system in four or eight more years of sleazy scandals.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/challenges.php?id=1387260

Note: Will need to spend some more time on this nice summary of Clinton:

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/challenges.php?id=1387260

Poor Max. He’s so in defense of this administration and this FANTASTIC way of life that he’s gotta try to bring up anything at all to make the opponent look bad. To bad he’s not American. Americans care for America.

Rage (in case you didn’t see my post on the Bush thread):
If what Martin is trying to do on localization succeeds, consolidation is a dead issue. Already, FOX, CBS and NBC have sold some of their holdings. Disney is reportedly not far behind. The economy of scale for localization doesn’t work for big operators.
Plus, Martin has gotten NCTA and NAB to sit down on a long-term solution for LP and CA stations like mine. Nobody is reporting this (heaven forbid the Eagle step away from the Cox party line), but 2/3 of the television stations in this country WILL NOT go digital on 2/17/09.
There is legislation pending in Congress to fix this… in 2012. Martin has proposed a magnificent solution, whereby cable companies and full powers would loan space to other stations until they have their own digital signals, and speed the process for stations in that situation.
But Congress is too hung up on this Net Neutrality crap. It’s crap because it’s an anti-trust issue, and should be settled by the Judiciary Committee, not the Commerce Committee. Lost in Ted Stevens’ famous “the internet is a bunch of tubes” speech was a compromise where the Judiciary Committee would have heard net neutrality, leaving the Commerce Committee to discuss broadcast and cable issues in… a broadcast and cable bill. What a concept!
For that reason, Obama needs to leave Martin alone and let him finish his work in this area. Up to 117,000 American jobs are at stake here.

Overwhelming Majority Of Hillary Supporters Voting For Hillary

PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) — A new Gallup Poll released last Wednesday showed that out of a sample of 5834 Hillary Clinton supporters, 87% of them plan to cast their vote for her in the upcoming Pennsylvania Primary. Although most Hillary Supporters cite the same reasons in support of casting their votes for her, reasoning varies widely among those supporters that plan to vote against her or abstain from voting at all.

“I just don’t think my vote makes a difference,” stated Angela, 35. “Is Hillary going to come to my job and mandate a raise for me? Is she going to babysit my three children? I don’t think so.” When asked why she attended rallies at all, she indicated that her friend Phoebe asked her to, and Phoebe does babysit her children.

Others are so confident in Hillary that they feel her success in inevitable. Bethany, a 24 year old social worker, claims that “Hillary is such a strong woman that she doesn’t need anyone’s help to get to the top. She’s confident and determined, and when I stay at home instead of voting this Tuesday, I’ll prove to everyone that she won’t let a little thing like my one vote stop her from reaching her goals.”

Frank, 23, has an entirely different reasoning for attending Hillary rallies. “Hillary attracts a lot of female supporters, and quite a few of them are real lookers, if you know what I mean. Let me tell you, there’s nothing like the promise of change to get a woman fired up.” Frank informed us that he planned to vote for Barack Obama this Tuesday.

With less than a week before the primary, some Hillary supporters are alarmed at the percentage of Hillary supporters not willing to vote for Hillary, which is up two percent from a similar poll taken a week ago. Others like Eva, 31, are unfazed. “87% is an incredible amount of support. With such a majority, there’s no way Hillary can lose.” http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i33952

Very nice story, of Hillary and Barak Wrestling:

I have come up with my own scenario of what would happen if the two Democratic heavyweights show up tomorrow night in Greenville, S.C., for Raw:

Obama comes to the ring first and soaks up the cheers of the crowd for about 30 seconds before dramatically raising the microphone to his mouth.

“Finally, Barack has come back to Greenville!” he says.

The charismatic Obama talks some smack about Clinton, and then waits for her to make her entrance. At that point, Bill Clinton appears on the stage, and he’s pushing Hillary in a wheelchair. She appears to be in a catatonic state.

Bill helps her into the ring and seats her back in the wheelchair, as Obama looks confused. Bill explains that Hillary caught him in the divas’ locker room earlier and she was livid. Bill says he couldn’t calm her down, so when she wasn’t looking, he slipped some sedatives into her water. He says that Vince McMahon told him that’s how he should handle a wife who meddles in his affairs. “I just wish Vince would have told me that about 10 years ago,” Bill says.

Obama then declares that he is the winner of the match by default. Suddenly, Hillary rises from the wheelchair and kicks Bill below the belt, sending the former president crumbling to the mat. “Oh, man, I feel your pain,” Obama says as he clutches his own lower abdomen.

Hillary picks up a microphone and explains that she got some advice on how to handle a philandering husband from Linda McMahon, so she only pretended to drink the spiked water.

“And now you’re next,” she says to Obama. He takes a defensive stance and tries to reason with her. Obama says he doesn’t think they should fight because they are really on the same side. He extends his hand as a gesture of friendship.

Hillary hesitates, unsure of whether to trust him. Finally, she shakes his hand, and then the two candidates raise each other’s arms in a show of solidarity.

All of a sudden, Obama decks Hillary, knocking her out cold.

“You see, Hillary,” he says standing over her, “it’s like I’ve been telling you all along. I’m all about change.”

He opens his clenched fist to reveal a roll of quarters.

Before walking off, Obama delivers one final line: “If you smell what Barack is cookin’!”

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/wrestling/blog/2008/04/obama_vs_clinton_on_raw_what_if.html

Political_mama
Posted April 20, 2008 at 3:54 pm | Permalink
Poor Max. He’s so in defense of this administration and this FANTASTIC way of life that he’s gotta try to bring up anything at all to make the opponent look bad. To bad he’s not American. Americans care for America.
————————————————-

Poor Mary, I see you found a way to pay the light bill. Just how is it those nasty Republicans raised your energy costs?

Did the Republicans stop the Democrats from drilling for more oil in Anwar and the continental shelf?

Did the Republicans raise your taxes? Cut your welfare?

On such a wonderful day, all Max has to do is play with himself.

Go outside Max, enjoy this beautiful day!

Nathan you have a choice; Either believe what your eyes saw and your ears heard or believe what Pmom and her lib friends decided really happened. Your choice

P.S. It almost seems pointless to mention this, in addition, but the origin of life on this planet has nothing to do with evolution, except in the minds of creationists.

Sorry, I have a hard time not typing that g in his name…

Dawkins.

Rage,

The movie didn’t attempt to say the orgin of life was part of Evolution either.

The point made by the movie was the level of absurd beliefs science has to offer for the first life form.

Also, it is rather absurd for someone to say “assume life” now Evolution.

That was the point being made. One you Evolution supporters purposefully avoid like the plague because you realise how much of a hard time you would have answering the question.

Rage,

Again, there are many people who favor looking at things from an ID persepctive who do not believe in God or are trying to defend faith.

Another point the movie was making.

Just another one of your false attacks on anyone who would dare support ID. Label them as only trying to defend their faith or insert God into the discussion.

The point made by the movie was the level of absurd beliefs science has to offer for the first life form.

Like what? As far I know, the current working models suggest that that first creatures were RNA-based.

Also, it is rather absurd for someone to say “assume life” now Evolution.

Why? We don’t have to “assume life” to begin with. There’s plenty of evidence of life over the past 3 billion or so years.

And, unlike creationists, scientists have no problems with those three little words: “I don’t know”!

“And, unlike creationists, scientists have no problems with those three little words: “I don’t know”!”

But scientists do have a problem with chained theories when they all start out as:

“”IF XX then YY”
“Else” ZZ”"

“”IF ZZ then AA”
“Else” “BB”

After a few hundred of those, if any one part fails, the whole chain of theoretical consequence fails.

Then, the scientists can say, “We don’t know.”

In climate science, they put a coat and tie on it and call it “uncertainties.”

(chortles)

ID is creationism lite, and obviously so, for reasons posted here ad nauseum , but whatever.

Another point the movie was making.

Just another one of your false attacks on anyone who would dare support ID. Label them as only trying to defend their faith or insert God into the discussion.

One could point to the numerous documents and statements by ID’s proponents themselves that prove this, but, okay, Nathan. Find me a single atheist who supports ID.

You, of course, can try to turn this around to the ridiculous argument that evolution is somehow an atheist ideology. But then that requires explaining the millions of religious people–and religious scientists who support it.

On such a beautiful day, “Max” is CLEARLY in need of a life.

And outlanders’ movie starring the voice of my kids’ favorite cartoons?

It’s getting the audience that wants to see it. And likely no more.

Amazing Outlander… Darwin was a VERY religious person… a devout Christian of his time… How Darwin could be linked to Atheism is one of the spurilous claims of the anti Science mongrels… as always…

It takes somebody with a definite mental deficiency to turn away from scientific discovery in the face of so much scientific FACT today, compared to when Darwin lived!!

Every scientific argument that the Christian Church has historically attempted to RULE on has been proven totally wrong!!

Is the CHURCH wrong?? not at all!! Theology and Science may have some common ground… but basically, its apples and oranges…. Science deals in how’s and when’s and if’s… Theology deals in Faith, Love, and he WHY of life… Those things are not intended to be run through the spectrum that is Science…

That “song” sucked the first time Chas.

No need in repeating it.

Thanks for the review Monkeyhawk.

Sounds like Stein continues to find a role in cartoons.

He is also the voice of the evil (and not coincidentally very neo con portrayed) CEO of the pixies in the Nickelodeon cartoon “Fairly Oddparents”

He found fame portraying a particularly dull science teacher in the 90’s sitcom “The Wonder Years”

To you Libs who don’t support the 2nd Amendment, then you should be happy with voting for either Clinton or Obama.

To you Libs who DO support the 2nd Amendment, then if you read just one article about Barack Obama, then this is the one article that you should read:

Barack Obama’s Slippery Oratory
by Wayne LaPierre, Executive Vice President
NRA Standing Guard – April 11, 2008

To understand Barack Obama on the Second Amendment, you have to know about the clash of character between the then-Chicago state senator and an ordinary citizen who exercised his right to armed self-defense in violation of a local gun ban.

That citizen was a 52-year-old resident of Wilmette, Illinois, who, on Dec. 28, 2003, woke to find that, during the night, his home had been invaded by a career criminal; a thief who stole household items, keys and the homeowner’s car.

The victim, Hale DeMar, described his fear in a letter to the Chicago Sun- Times: “For me, the seconds until I found my children still safely tucked in their beds were horrifying . . . The police were called and in routine fashion they came, took the report and with little concern left, promising to increase surveillance. Little comfort, since the invader now had keys to our home and our automobiles. The police informed me that this was not an uncommon event in east Wilmette and offered their condolences . . .” Not 24 hours after the first burglary, the thief returned. Using DeMar’s house keys, the man entered the home, this time setting off the alarm system, automatically notifying the security company. Given the previous night’s lackluster response by police, DeMar was prepared, armed with a handgun–legally purchased years before and kept in a safe. But under Wilmette’s gun ban, that firearm in the home was illegal.

DeMar confronted the criminal, and believing his children were in danger, shot the burglar, who then fled the home.

“Until you are shocked by a piercing alarm in the middle of the night and met in your kitchen by a masked invader as your children shudder in their beds, until you confront that very real nightmare, please don’t suggest that some village trustee knows better … “If my actions have spared only one family from the distress and trauma that this habitual criminal has caused hundreds of others, then I have served my civic duty and taken one evil creature off of our streets, something that our impotent criminal justice system had failed to do, despite some thirty odd arrests, plea bargains and suspended sentences.” The burglar, who was arrested after driving DeMar’s stolen SUV to a hospital, had an extensive criminal record.

Cook County prosecutors ultimately declared DeMar’s use of a firearm to be justified. But Wilmette village officials pressed nonetheless to prosecute him for illegal possession of his handgun–a charge punishable by a huge fine and jail time. A town official was quoted in Reason magazine saying, “We need to set the example that we’re trying to protect our citizens.” And he said, DeMar–by possessing a legally purchased handgun–”is endangering innocent civilians.” The outcry of the Illinois public was heard all the way to the state capitol.

As a result, the Illinois House and Senate passed legislation in May 2004 to protect citizens who use handguns in self-defense in their homes or businesses despite local handgun bans.

The House accepted the DeMar selfdefense bill by a vote of 86-25 and the Senate moved the legislation on a 38-20 vote.

And here lies the seminal moment for state Senator Barack Obama. When Obama turned thumbs down on the bill, he voted against the most basic element of the Second Amendment– the right of defense of self and family– the reason that millions of Americans own firearms.

When the governor vetoed the bill, Obama once again voted against a citizen’s right to self-defense.

Despite his vote, the veto override passed the Senate and the House by overwhelming majorities, thereby enacting this bill into law.

Now, fast forward to today’s slippery oratory of U.S. Sen. Barack Obama just three years from being an unknown state senator–now morphed by the media into a spellbinding u.s. senator seeking to be president of the United States.

Using words like “protecting sportsmen,” Obama is now saying that he believes in the Second Amendment … but with almost universal exceptions, all of which he lists under the heading of “common sense gun safety laws.” “Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like endorsing the D.C. gun ban, which outlaws armed self-defense in the home–now being challenged before the u.s. Supreme Court. Obama, who as president would be in the position to nominate justices to that high court, has declared that the d.c. ban doesn’t violate the Second Amendment.

“Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? In a “1998 National Political Awareness Test,” he pledged to support a “Ban [on] the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons”–meaning most handguns and many rifles and shotguns that you and I own.

“Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like demanding that the federal government preempt the 40 hard-won state laws creating Right-to-Carry.

Here’s how the Chicago Tribune put it: “Obama said he opposed allowing ordinary citizens to carry concealed weapons and that a federal law banning concealed carried weapons except for law enforcement is needed.” “Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like the draconian proposals funded to the tune of $18,000,000 by the rabidly anti-gun Joyce Foundation while Obama was an activist member of its board of directors.

Obama’s alleged support of the Second Amendment is utterly cynical and false. Barack Obama is not for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms; he`s out to destroy it.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=418899

Senator Webb (D, Virginia, packs heat. :D

Sorry Max, but to me you are just going on blah blah blah buh blah.

You are certainly passionate about your beliefs and I hope you volunteer locally to pursue/implement your beliefs.

Hogging the blog with long rants/pastes is ok but I might suggest action in the real world would further your interests much more.

Good luck and good day!

Actually Chas I think you will find that by his own definition Darwin was an agnostic. He wavered back and forth but at the age of 70 described himself thus.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/04/18/cneuro118.xml

Europe is ready to take matters into their own hands about our CRASHING ECONOMY.

Yes, folks, that is how bad it is here.

FOR ALL INTERESTED >>>>

Dear Members and Friends of The Clergy Letter Project,

As many of you know, Ben Stein’s anti-evolution and anti-intellectual movie, Expelled, was released yesterday. One of the main points the movie makes is that accepting evolution leads directly to atheism. This ridiculous claim is one of many that numerous reviews have attempted to dismiss. More often than not, I’m delighted to say, the evidence used is the existence of The Clergy Letter. The fact that more than 11,100 clergy members from across the United States have signed a statement in support of evolution is making a big difference in countering this claim.

Indeed, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the nation’s largest scientific organization released a statement condemning the film yesterday (http://www.aaas.org/news/releases/2008/media/0418aaas_statement.pdf).

The statement begins by saying, “For more than a decade, the nonprofit American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) has been working to build a constructive bridge between scientific and religious communities through its Dialogue on Science, Ethics and Religion and other programs. There also have been many efforts by religious leaders to accomplish the same goal. For example, more than 11,000 clergy have signed an open letter supporting the view that faith and science should be seen as complementary, not competing.” The statement goes on to say that, “We were therefore especially disappointed to learn that the producers of an intelligent design propaganda movie called ‘Expelled’ are inappropriately pitting science against religion.”

mz@butler.edu

CONCLUSION OF ABOVE >>>>

Obviously our efforts are being noticed and are making a difference.

I urge you to read the full AAAS statement (at the link above) and to explore a web site set up by the National Center for Science Education entitled Expelled Exposed http://www.expelledexposed.com) if you want to learn more about this movie.

Because of the increased attention The Clergy Letter Project is receiving, this would be a great time to increase the number of clergy who have signed The Clergy Letter, to increase the number of scientists willing to serve as consultants to The Clergy Letter Project and to increase the number of participants in Evolution Weekend 2009 (13-15 February 2009). Please help!!

If your congregation is willing to participate in Evolution Weekend 2009, please let me know. Although it is about 10 months before the event, we already have more than 70 congregations representing 36 states and four countries on board. I’ll post the full list of participants soon, but I’d like for all states to represented when I do that. So please sign up now. And please think about circulating the flyer I’ve created for the event (http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/pdf/evolution%20weekend%202009.doc) to friends and colleagues and on any listserve to which you might subscribe.

Please help spread the word to clergy and scientists and encourage the former to sign The Letter and the letter to enroll as consultants. As you do so, watch our numbers swell and watch our message that religion and science need not be at war take root around the globe.

Because of your efforts to date, we have much to be proud of. Thank you! Unfortunately, there is still a very real need for our message to be heard.

Michael Zimmerman

Office of the Dean
College of Liberal Arts and Sciences
Butler University
Indianapolis, IN 46208

Tel: 317.940.9224
Fax: 317.940.8815

ksgrm
Posted April 20, 2008 at 7:18 pm | Permalink
Actually Chas I think you will find that by his own definition Darwin was an agnostic. He wavered back and forth but at the age of 70 described himself thus.

Chas
Posted April 20, 2008 at 7:20 pm |

Permalink
Granny, I think you should re-check your history… LOL

Chas
Posted April 20, 2008 at 7:32 pm | Permalink
From your own quote, Grm >>>>

“He then stressed he had never been an atheist and was best considered an agnostic.”

Well Chas I rechecked the post and my original statement that he was agnostic and not Christian stands the same. Where is the inaccuracy? Do you argue with yourself much?

Chas which part of ‘I am an agnostic’ did you miss?

Chas are you delusional? Where have I ever said evolution was atheistic. You know you really don’t need anyone else on the blog. You can present all sides of every argument and then agree or disagree with yourself. This is a waste of my time.

Rage
Posted April 20, 2008 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

Senator Webb (D, Virginia, packs heat.

So does CapnAmerica
———————-
With his attitude, I can understand why.

Germ, a person can be agnostic and still be a Christian.

Not wanting to jump into Ksgrm/Chas’s argument, but Ksagnostic is a member of UCC.

Agnostic is another word for “fence walker.”

They have the convenience of changing like a chameleon depending on what crowd they are hanging with.

An agnostic is an Atheistic apologist. :)

Ksagnostic can call himself anything he wants but he can’t change the definition of agnostic.

Gee is Ksagnostic here today?? LOL

I didnt say it granny — that came direct from YOUR article!!

Also, any educated clergyman KNOWS that Darwin studied for the ordained ministry!! At age SEVENTY he determined he was an agnostic (Never doubted the existence of Deity) jost wasnt an orthodox christian!!

All of which has NOTHING to with The Origin of Species!!!

Interesting Chas. The guy writing your copy and paste is Michael Zimmerman. This guy is a college professor who is organizing liberal churches. He is peddling “Evolution Weekend 2008″. What will the participating churches worship that weekend?
I wonder when “Theory of Relativity Weekend” is?

I thought that science wasn’t political.

“In an odd coincidence, a person named Rozita E. Swinton of Colorado Springs is listed on the El Paso County Democratic Party website as an Obama delegate.”

Chas ck this out. I just think it is funny that a dem activist is probably the one who started the entire thing.

It’s entirely possible that there are several Rozita E Swintons in Colorado Springs. It is such a common name kinda like Jim Jones.

Well, then, if you want to continue to make your stupid claim, then I suggest you post a LINK to back it up…

Outlander — instead of attac king me… why dont you actually READ the links Dr. Zimmerman provides in his materials… They are all FREE items…

Rage,

Too assert that all ID proponents are creationist is just as much a false claim as if I were to say all Evolutionists were athiests.

Athiesm and Creationism are wrold views. Of course I would be hard pressed to show you that an Athiest is a believer in ID. Why on Earth would an Atheist lean toward a belief which is practically incompatable with their underlying world view?

So to say I must show you an Athiest who believes in ID is a Red Herring.

For the same reason that Atheists are drawn to accept the belief in Evolution is indeed the same reason Creationists would be drawn to accept ID.

For either of us to assert that then both Evolution and ID MUST be comprised of either creationists and atheists respectivly is false.

Yet that is exactly what people like you do.

Chas I have given you every clue you need to find what I did. As I have said before ‘If you need a secretary, hire one.’

Chas,

And what about the bayonet nut fringe like you?

There goes that word again, “uncertainty.”

It’s what scientists use when they don’t know what they are talking about.

Do you really, honestly, believe that? That not knowing something now –and admitting it–means you can’t and won’t know?

By the way, people who “don’t know what they’re talking about” rarely–if ever–say “I don’t know.” They just spout off, oblivious to reality. “I don’t know” is strangely seen as an admission of weakness. They have no understanding of what the search for truth really is, nor do they care.

They already have the Truth . End of the debate.

People who aren’t afraid to say “I don’t know” are the ones I’m more inclined to trust.

Chas,

The movie makes no such claim:

“One of the main points the movie makes is that accepting evolution leads directly to atheism.”

What the movie pointed out is that accepting Evolution can and often is a first step in accepting Athiesm.

Which is obvious.

Chas,

In our discussions you seemed to be well prepared to use that bayonet to defend yourself.

Now you don’t know how to use it?

So what makes you so sure you know how to use a baseball bat to defend youself?

“YOU GET YOUR OWN SECRETARY!! WENCH!!!” Chas

Such kind hearted words from a preacher.

AmWay — Hey, what can I say… She are what she are!! :-)

I have a secretary Chas. You keep telling me to do your research for you and I just think you need a secretary. BTW I don’t expect my secretary to do research for me. I take care of that.

Clue: Enter her name, the Democratic party of El Paso county and delegate names.

I have faith in you because I could do it and you tell me all of the time how much smarter you are than me.

KsGrm, you are a sanctimonius, self-righteous she-wolf… Dont EVER tell ANYbody EVER Again to provide you a link!! Get it??? NEVER AGAIN!!

Sigh. . .Nathan, there is no science to ID. The people behind it: Michael Behe, Willam Dembski, Jonathan Wells, Stephen Meyer, etc., do not make scientific arguments for ID, and are not motivated by a desire for scientific accuracy. They take popshots at evolution (which are pretty much universally panned in the scientific community), and illogically pretend that this is somehow evidence for “intelligent design.

So to say I must show you an Athiest who believes in ID is a Red Herring.

Not exactly: If it’s a scientifically valid hypothesis, then one’s metaphysical beliefs are quite obviously irrrelevant . Yes, it’s possible, as a matter of statistical chance, that no atheist scientists have come on board–yet–there are more believers than atheists in science. But your claim that atheists would be unlikely to endorse it, ever, makes my point better than I could have.

Why wouldn’t atheists go for it, Nathan, if it’s scientifically valid ? Are you suggesting that atheists ignore the evidence when it’s ideologically inconvenient? I certainly wouldn’t make that argument about (the vast majority) of Christians who just happen to be scientists! Hell, I would even give a creationist scientist the benefit of the doubt–on any subject other than evolution. :)

By the way, your attempt to equate atheism (mere nonbelief in a supernatural deity) to creationism (a dishonest attempt to use scientific language to promote biblical literalism) is amusing.

Chas, the unapologetic minister.

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Chas with the short memory as mentioned earlier she lives in Colorado Springs. I did neglect to say that is in Colorado. Sorry for the omission.

As much fun as this has been I have to call it an evening. Chas if you need any other instructions just leave me a note. I might be back later.

Rage,

Athiesm is a rejection of God. If an Athiest was truly motivated by the facts then they would actually be an agnostic.

You can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God.

When an Atheist makes the claim that there is no God, which is what makes someone an athiest, then they are not motivated by simply following “the evidence.”

Athiesm is a world view. Creationism is a world view. I do not attempt to equate them beyond that.

Either you can form an logical argument or you can’t. Calling my argument absurd is not a logical counter argument.

I have explained why both Athiesm and Creationism are world views.

Do you disagree with that statement? Why? Simply saying it is absurd is not an argument.

Your attitude in this discussion is a perfect example of what the movie was showing.

Chas,

Exactly how do you subdue someone with a bayonet and not threaten their life?

Regular
Posted April 20, 2008 at 8:21 pm | Permalink
Max, never said there was anything wrong with it.

I was implying that you can’t use a CC license to hold dominance over a casual encounter if there isn’t a threat. That is illegal.
———————————————–

True, but then no one knows if you have a carry permit or not either. :O)

Chas I swore I wouldn’t this but I can’t stand to see you flounder around all night lost.

http://www.peakdems.org/obama_state_del.asp

Rage,

You are reduced to making strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks on people instead of actually engaging them in discussion.

Once again, exactly what the movie was pointing out about people like you.

Once again you make claims about the motivations of people like Behe.

Back it up. How do you know what their motivations are?

Any opposing idea, hypothesis, and/or theory which is counter to Evolution you will call taking “popshots.”

Duh. Of course an OPPOSING idea is going to be at odds with Evolution. That is the entire definition of opposing. Calling it taking “popshots” doesn’t mean anything beyond your turning this into a war of insults rather than discussion.

Nathan, with a bayonet I think you just take a finger off to subdue them.

Ask them kindly to hold still, put their finger against the wall, then slash or saw – your choice.

“What I was stating would require a physical presence to make a threat, which obviously no one in Wichita can confirm your presence to date.”

Other than your Sasquatch like smell, McCluer, no one in Wichita can confirm your presence, either.

So, what’s your point?

I would like to be at Watermark tomorrow, but Monday is a busy day at work.

When I asked JM-Reguliar to me at Dillon’s, he claimed he lived 30 mins out of Wichita.

I guess that was another one of those “egg-zajer-ashuns” he’s so famous for.

Anyway, maybe you guys can finally figure out if he was “too young” for Vietnam. I’m guessing no . . .

That’s why he’s retarded . . . oops, I mean, retired now.

Correction: to meet me at Dilllon’s

Chas,

So tell me, how do you subdue someone with a bayonet and not threaten their life?

AmWay I have tried to take it easy on Chas tonight but his ‘cap lock’ finger got the best of him anyway. I don’t think he sees the connection with losing his temper and calling others name and his caps and exclamation points getting out of control. Maybe he just needs to relieve his stress level. I am glad to be here for that.

Thats TOO funny Granny!! There are only 35 delegates for Obama to the Dem. Convention… 20 for Clinton — 15 uncommitted… Your “list” far exceeds 70!!

AND, I have not found this woman’s name on that list as of yet!! I WILL try again!!

Check out my link above!! for # delegates…

Now, you want to try some other way to back up your allegation??? LOL

“I didn’t.”

You did – and you were PROUD of it.

Nathaniel
Posted April 20, 2008 at 9:16 pm | Permalink
Chas,

So tell me, how do you subdue someone with a bayonet and not threaten their life?
======================================
If I have to tell you that, you sure as hell dont belong in the Marine Corps!! LOL

Chas just a small clue. Look under the ssss’s – Her last name is Swinton.

AmWay/Nathan, Marines even train with a bayonet nowadays?

I thought they replaced those with Louisville Sluggers.

“There are only 35 delegates for Obama to the Dem. Convention… 20 for Clinton — 15 uncommitted… Your “list” far exceeds 70!!”

Chas, there is difference between State and National. You must be talking National.

CapnAmerica,

Of course a Pastor should try to uphold a higher standard.

You don’t have to be a Christian to understand basic leadership principles.

“AND, I have not found this woman’s name on that list as of yet!! I WILL try again!!” [Chas]

OK I found her name… But the list you provide, Granny, is a LOT longer than the ACTUAL LIST of delegates going to Convention… which number 70 — See my post upthread: 35 for Obama, 20 for Clinton, and 15 uncommitted. Those delegates are merely divided amongst the 70 delegates allowed…

Now, how would you explain that out of 70 delegates, Ms Swinton could be named an Obama delegate?? Since the 70 are merely arbitrarily divided up for roll call vote at the DNC Convention??

She might have been an Obama Delegate to the CAUCUS meetings… but that means nothing at the DNC Convention!!

Please try not to spin a nothing story into political hype!!

WS Clark,

I didn’t go. You could be just as much to blame for that as I was. You were the one who went on for days and still do about it. You were the one who turned a tongue and cheek comment into something it never was.

I accept my part and responsibilty for what happend and apologized.

Here YOU are still carrying on about it.

Get over it already.

Just because the girl “Sarah” who called and complained about abuse might have been a hoax, that doesn’t mean that the abuse wasn’t happening.

This same kind of cult was arrested in 1953 in Texas and the same kind of women in the same kind of dresses claimed that “no abuse was taking place,” causing public outrage and the authorities to back down.

Maybe this time they’ll have the guts to do the right thing.

#
Nathaniel
Posted April 20, 2008 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

Regular,

Would you mind if I invited myself out to lunch on Monday?

I would love to meet you, if you don’t mind.
——————-
Don’t mind at all Nathan. Would love to see you and shake your hand.

Not sure about J R and Steven Davis though.

We can always sit at separate tables. :)

Grm, you are an older, irritating, obstinate, disagreeable female, set in your own answers and opinions being absolutely right, and those who disagree with you wrong… You do not refrain from name calling…

In my book, that makes you “a wench” Nathan, that has nothing to do with Leadership… which is not something included in my contract… to exercise leadership on a public Blog…

BTW, Grm, if you treated me in a parish setting the way you do here, you would most likely be called the same thing…. and not just by me… Shoot, in a lot of churches, you wouldnt even have VOICE, let alone Vote, in a church meeting!! LOL

nathan, does your standing in the marine corps, dictate what you are allowed to post on this Blog?

my contract with my parish doesnt… my leadership expectations end aat the boundaries of my parish… LOL want to try again at demeaning comments, and bearing false witness??

so far you arent doing so good…

Let me answer that: alive and well, Nathan.

Even Jesus turned over the tables and called people a “brood of vipers.”

You don’t get to constantly rag on somebody, and then when they defend themselves say, “He’s a pastor! Well, I never!”

That’s not fair. It is hypocritical though.

So, that only makes you a LIAR nathan… I am a Christian. I am ordained clergy!! That gives me a certain level of expertise in theological/religious discussions… For you to continually question that expertise, makes you a total LIAR!! For you to question another person’s faith, makes you one of the brood of vipers Jesus talked about, as well as a class A hypocrite!!

Persona non grata!! in other words… STUFF IT NATHAN!!! This Blog is sick and tired of your self-centered, self-righteous, gun toting anti-god materialism!! STUFF IT SHORTY!!

“not” true. Crap. Typos.

Cap who has ragged on Chas tonight. Go back and look at the posts. He is a person who is constantly declaring himself an authority and then calling others names when they prove him wrong.

How do you think we should handle him? I want to be fair.

Chas,

You are not a Christian. You can call yourself one all you want to, but you are not one.

You probably are a minister. You simply don’t act like one nor do I offer you any respect as one.

Derby eh Rage? :)

My older cousin (actually my Dad’s first cousin) and I used to substitute teach at Derby High School. Both of our specialties/degrees allowed us to substitute in science and math classes. :)

Does GOD exsist?? Did GOD ever exsist?? Let me share a true story, “I was 16 years old and my grandmother took me in. I was not getting along with my Father. I was living in her house. I bought a “Playboy Magazine”. I put it under some blankets in my closet in her house. My grandfather had passed about 8 years earlier. She never dated or remarried. She found the “Playboy” and got very upset. She never cussed, before. She told me it is better to keep my damned mouth shut and live than it was to open it and get nailed. She further told me it was better to keep my mouth shut and make others, too include her think I was crazy than too open it and remove all dought. She then took a deep breath and stated, “”It is better for me too to live my life respectfully and in peaceful harmony and die and and find out there is not a GOD and at least I had a life of peace and harmony, than it is too live in turmoil and crap and die and find out there is a GOD and I am not allowed into heaven”". She later had a massive stroke and lived years in a nursinghome. She never changed her mind. She still insited upon hat she told me. She died leaving me these thoughts. I was about 20 when she died, I am know 41. I owe her 21 years of my life. I remember what she told me. I dont believe in all the Bible stories or teachings. I do believe GOD exsists. I do believe I will someday find out, as we all will from being born. I love my grandmother. She refused to be held in the light as a saint, she just was helping a sexually abused grandson get thru being raped by her son, my DAD. She kept the faith and I love her for this. GOD exsists, I will walk with him and my grandparents someday. Until then, I walk with GOD faithfully. I am not perfect or a “Bible Thumper”. I do believe enough too know I will be allowed. I hope this helps, Herbert West III, Openminded Baptist, west.herb@yahoo.com http://www.wen2k.com

#
Chas
Posted April 20, 2008 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

Regulr, WHY do you constantly LIE?? Show me ONE post where I have defended the nut case in Colorado?? SHOW JUST ONE!!! You are just a no good, stupid, arrogant LIAR!! Some day, Regular… SOME day… you will get yours!!
—————-
Will it come wrapped or unwrapped Chas? :)

“You have yet to point that out.”

The “everybody loves me” good Christian boy announces that he will have his CCP for a blog meet so that he can “make liberals wet their pants.”

Everybody loves you, Price.

You are a good Christian.

But you are a hypocrite.

No Chas, you are defending the fact that she isn’t an Obama supporter.

What if she is Chas?

How would you like your crow served up?

Baked or fried?

Well,

A perspective from outside of faith.

Chas is at least as good or a better Christian than Nathan. At least as to my take on Christianity.

Nathan is greedy, arrogant, vindictive, cruel, judgemental, condescending, and a liar.

Outlander,

Rage is one of the people doing it! You expect him to see that objectively?

Look at all his posts here. They are full of the name calling, strawman arguments, red herrings, and everything else that movie pointed out.

JR as a professed non-believer why would your opinion carry any weight on who is the ‘best’ Christian. Stupid argument. We can either act like adults and discuss subjects in a grown up manner or we can set and scream at each other all day, every day. Boring!!

Chas asks for what he gets. He is a grown up man I think. Why do you feel the need to excuse his behaviors. Some people are just more trouble than they are worth and he fits in that category for me.

Geez, Grnny, you just cant get enough of yourself, and your ignorant stupidity can you??

I dont do any nic switching… and you?

You dont even know my faith, so there’s another blatant LIE… I dont hold myself up as an example of anything… And yet another one of your LIES!!! Oh, but Ex Cuseee me… YOU are the good upstanding christian granny… so , YOU are allowed to LIE about people that call you out, and demand that YOU put up or shut up like you do to others!!

That makes YOU better than who??? ME??

Oh, and I havent called you any names… i called you a WENCH… which is just what you ARE!! Thus, that is not a name, but rather a personal descriptive!!

Now, go back to your Troll Bridge, and wait for another time to attack!! I have had it with your self-righteous spew!!

Grnny?? WHY do you bother to go to church?? You think you know all things… Why not just light you a candle, and bow down to your own image in a mirror!! ROFL Sorry, but that image has me LOL

I’m out of here for now…

Good night; Good luck;
God bless; Whatever you conceive God to be!!

Blessings ALL!!

So…

Let the betting begin. Here are the categories:

1. How many posts will Chas make now?

2. How many more times will Chas say goodnight?

Rage is one of the people doing it! You expect him to see that objectively?

Heh, well, Nathan, he could at least talk me into watching the thing! ;) I’m hearing at least an attempt at dialogue, rather than “debate points.” I value that! (sorry, dude: I tend to see what you’re doing when other don’t–this is not a bad thing, as others might see what I regard as a logical parry as simply being an asshole! ;-) ).

There is not a single instance in history where hate has brought joy to human beings.

It is a negative force that serves only to destroy those who hold it in their mind and body.

If the majority of humanity released all hate, fear, and resentment, wars would disappear from our planet.

-Rhonda Byrne from The Secret

Amen and good night!

KansasNative I was taught a version of that years ago ‘When we have hate in ourselves it only hurts the vessel holding it’

Are you someone that has posted under a different name. I was out a few weeks and several changed names?

Well outlander I don’t have the luxury of posting all day.

I have a life.

Care to refute ANYTHING I have posted?

Or shall we just start trading shots?

And James?

Just how many nics do you have? WHY don’t any of them come to meet me?

And now Nathan wants to be there?

Gotta think on that one.

I’d like to see Steven. I’d like to see you and your many nics in one place at one time.

The guy who lies about me and his gun AND you who has threatened to kill me?

Not so much.

Any bets that J R won’t shake my hand tomorrow? :)

Actually, I like Rage. On this subject though, he has his blinders on and is walking the Darwinist walk.

I suppose I’m a tad impatient, as this has been discussed and discussed and discussed.

I also don’t care much for giving my money to those people, considering their tactics. But I’ll try to see the movie, for what it’s worth.

Stein should stick to cartoons and commercials.

Oh yeah! With this flick, he did.

Good night all. Haven’t see an opinion for hours.Just beating up on each other, insults, and typical late night flaming.

Aw, c’mon, AW. Yeah, there’s been the usual biting comments etc. but–honestly–this is the most civil open thread I’ve seen in quite a while.

I’m uneasy about the Jay/writerdog exchange. Maybe you didn’t know any better either. Sorry for the earlier flame, then. Excrement occurs. Let’s consider that corrected, and call it a day.

Wow, what a bunch of religious mumbo jumbo!! I sort of like what PMama said… Religion is the main culprit!!

Nathan attacks Chas. Chas stands up for his beliefs, which are different from Nathan, as are the beliefs of many. Then Nathan’s right wing nut friends attack Chas for being un-pastorly things. (Thanks CapN – I like that word) Un-pastorly to call out lies?? Un-pastorly to call out hypocrisy?

Now, I am pretty much soured on religion, and God, and all that junk. But I ccan see an ambush when I see one.

KsGrm posted a bunch of political hype about that crazy lady in colorado. KsGrm posted on this Blog that this crazy nut in Colorado, is/was an Obama Delegate. As if her vote in a Democrat Caucusd had anything to do with this travesty going on in TX.

That is a stupid and ignorant Flame to attempt to somehow connect Obama to the Mormon crap in TX. That is not only bad politics, it is intentional LYING, and dishonesty.

And some of you had a problem with Chas retaliating at KsGrm, by calling her a Wench?

I could find a few words to add to that one, but I wont!

I will only say this: Its time to clean this place up! You have made this place a tragic representation of the view of the City of Wichita.

People do read things like this when making decisions to move here, or work here, or even bring in new businesses. If they see the kind of thing going on like this Blog, they might well move their interests to Salina, or Hutchinson, or Dodge City, or Garden City, or even to Oklahoma, or Missouri.

Is that what you people want? Libs and Cons??

For some of you, I wouldnt doubt it. But for others of you, I hardly see that as any of your motive!

If you disagree, fine!! Disagree! Just leaver GOD out of it!! God didnt do it! And many of us could care less!

Disagree?? FINE!! Do it! But dont imagine for ONE minute that the person with whom you disagree is any more wrong or right than you are!! Thats why they call it opinion!!

If you make some sort of allegation, be prepared to back it up with some kind of Link, or else just call it opinion, and move on!! And, never, ever, demand a link from someone else, if you are not prepared to offer your own links when asked!

Get it? It’s really that easy folks!!

It sure is saddening to come on to this Blog after a long weekend road trip, and find this kind of meaningless mess!

Good nite to all you yo-yo’s!

Waasnt really talking about you Rage! You do a good job keeping things in perspective most of the time!!

Chas,

Tell me if this sounds familiar.

You sit down in the computer for a few minutes, hoping to whip up a quick blog post. Then an idea hits you. It’s vague at first, but it has a certain sparkle of possibility. You start constructing a post, becoming more convinced with every word that you’re onto something.

The feeling grows and grows until your fingers are flying across the keyboard. The words are flowing, and you’re saying exactly what you want to say, exactly the way you want to say it. You bring the post to a close with an ending that you can only describe as, “Perfect,” and then pause to read what you’ve written.

A smile spreads across your face. It’s clever, original… brilliant. You only hesitate for a second before posting it to your blog. “I can’t wait to see what they say about that,” you think. You walk away from the computer, sure you’ve written a masterpiece.

A couple of hours pass and you come back to reread your post. As you scan through it, you feel a weight in the pit of your stomach. This post isn’t brilliant. It’s arrogant, disconnected, and desperate for attention.

“What was I thinking?” you ask yourself. And I’ll tell you: you weren’t thinking. You were drunk on your own words.

http://www.copyblogger.com/drunk-writing/

Shouldn’t things being argued about have premises that have a basis in fact? Otherwise how does one avoid the fallacy of argumentum ad ignorantum. I was going to say we, but instead will say, you, could argue about whether or not the earth was seeded with DNA. We have no way of knowing this and thus it would be a surperbly stupid waste of time.

We can make hypotheses about the relationships among unknowns and in many cases test these relationships to then determine the accuracy of our predictions. This cannot be done with matters of faith and I believe you cheapen matters of faith when you try to argue about them. And doing so amounts to trollish behavior on your part.

Thank you.

Obviously, Max remains delusional, and without a clue! And Nathan right along with him! How absolutely nauseating!

AmWay you said that well and hopefully it will set the tone for today.