Good news for those eager to see Kansas finally put its 1994 death penalty law to work: The U.S. Supreme Court, on a 7-2 vote, has upheld Kentucky’s lethal injection method. Opponents had argued that the three-drug protocol could cause an inmate terrible pain if its anesthetic failed. But Chief Justice John Roberts wrote that they did not show “the risk of pain from maladministration of a concededly humane lethal injection protocol, and the failure to adopt untried and untested alternatives, constitute cruel and unusual punishment.†Kansas, where lethal injection also is the method of execution, was among the states that filed a friend of the court brief supporting Kentucky. But even though its method of execution has the green light, Kansas should still reconsider whether capital punishment is the best public policy, given its high cost, unequal application and possibility of mistakes.
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128 Comments
No difference between this and a late term abortion except these are getting what they deserve.
The cost is not as high as keeping them in prison for life or the risk of them getting out and doing the same thing to someone.
A tall tree and a short rope would cost even less and you could take the criminals down to watch and tell them this is your fate if you continue in the life of crime.
costs a lot for the appeals though.
It’s still annoying that Scott Cheever got the death penalty, while Dennis Radar escaped it because of the year 1994. I think Dennis deserves the death penalty 100 times more than Scott Cheever.
IMHO, killing people via execution is nothing more than revenge killings. Executions do nothing to stop killings, and are, again IMHO, about as far from a civilized nation as possible. Why do we even consider lowering ourselves to a killers standards by executing him or her? In a civilized society, that makes no sense whatsoever.
JMWalker - I agree 100%. The state has no business being in the death business.
I somewhat agree with JMWalker. If people really followed Jesus’s teachings, we wouldn’t have capital punishment.
How can you say that it does nothing to deter murder, when many have killed, only to be let out and then do it again?
I think if you willingly take a life, you should have to pay for it with your own..why should a murderer get a second chance when he never gave one to his victim(s)?
They need to shorten the appeals process and carry out the sentence within a year..that would reduce the cost..as it is now, it’s a cash cow for the lawyers.
The man who murders my two friends just got paroled for the third time after the murders….I wonder what havic he’ll reap on society this time?
Theh cost of having criminals like him on teh street is much more than the cost of keeping him locked up. If he was put to death after the murders he committed, the costs would be minimal compared to the cost of his legal fees, crimes, incarcerations, and the pain to to his family and victims.
“They need to shorten the appeals process and carry out the sentence within a year.”
YEAH! Because our justice system is perfect and we truly have justice for all!
Not.
I forget the name of the Governor and the state. But the death penalty SHOULD be suspended everywhere until our very broken justice system is fixed.
Let me be clear.
I am not opposed to the death penalty.
I’m glad we are rid of Timothy McVeigh. Trot the Carr brothers out and I’ll do the injection.
Make a special provision and rid the world of Dennis Rader.
But we HAVE to have a more credible Justice system before we have a death penalty.
There has been no justice for the murderer of my friends…he has continued to act out on society every time he gets the chance…and now he’s out again. That’s what’s broken and needs to be fixed about our justice system…it’s teh criminals that have all the rights, not the victims or their loved ones.
He put a gun to their heads and killed them in cold blood while he was robbing the store they managed, he left their children orphans and their family has never gotton over the pain of losing two really good people who lives were cut short in the prime of their youth.
I’m very bitter, and I’m really not concerned about the rights of criminals. If that makes me a bad person, so be it.
#
Mary_Caruso
Posted April 17, 2008 at 8:13 am | Permalink
How can you say that it does nothing to deter murder, when many have killed, only to be let out and then do it again?
I think if you willingly take a life, you should have to pay for it with your own..why should a murderer get a second chance when he never gave one to his victim(s)?
===========================================
Mary, lock em up for life, if convicted of killing someone. Your whole post smacks of revenge, not justice. Big difference. I stand by my post.
And what wrong with revenge? If someone maliciously killed your child, wouldn’t you want revenge? Why is being angry about the injustice of a double murderer who has had 3 chances at freedom wrong?
He deserves to die…not live in prison with his buddies and happy with no responsibilities and a life he has grown very comfortable with.
I’m all for bringing back the days of stocks and pillories. A few days with your head through that board with all the townsfold throwing sticks and stones at you is a definite deterrent to any crime. No food/bathroom breaks. Murderers left to rot. Overhead is cheap (Home Depot business rate), and how many guards ya need to gather the rocks and logs to conveniently pile fir the townsfolk.
I am sympathetic to your pain Mary.
But I do not feel you can comment fairly on this matter because of that pain.
I am not familiar with the case you bring here. It sounds as if the perp is clearly gulity. And if that is the case you can feed him sand out of the road and I’ll hold him for ya.
But someone once said that a thousand guilty should go free before one innocent is prosecuted.
That is where I stand.
He freely admitts to the murder he committed, but he’s “found Jesus” and thinks that gives him a free pass out of prison…and he’s out. There is nothing emotional about seeing the injustice of that.
He should have had to give up his own life for those lives he took, that’s justice.
Mary, look at the murders done at that school, where five young girls were slaughtered by a nut case, and what the parents of those children did. “Revenge is mine”, sayeth the Lord.
I really don’t give a damn how a person survives in prison. That is for the prison system to control. What the prisoner can’t control is how he is going to answer to God for his transgressions. And who’s to deny a person from making himself right with God during his lifetime incarceration? Because he murdered someone, you would deny him knowing God? Isn’t that a bit like making yourself a God?
Sorry Mary, I still stand by my post, and you have proven me correct.
“But I do not feel you can comment fairly on this matter because of that pain.”
Why not…who better to comment on this issue than one who has been personally affected by it?
JR, I have a personal interest in the Carr case. While there are times where revenge is sweet, it’s more important that some scum shouldn’t take up the earth’s dwindling resources. If you want to give me an iota of doubt on Carr Bros guilt, I’m willing to give it a bit of second thought.
By the way, executions have nothing to do with justice, but everything to do with revenge. Read your own posts.
Because he murdered someone, you would deny him knowing God?
I’d do the christian thing and allow him to have the face-to-face with god that much quicker. See how kind I am?
Maybe the difference is that I don’t believe in the afterlife..I don’t believe anyone of us “stand before God” at our death to be judged…I think we’re just dead. A lot of injustice happens because of religious beliefs, and I don’t think it’s neccesary to forgive if one doesn’t feel the need to. In this case, I certainly don’t feel any need to forgive a man who has done nothing but cause pain to others all his life..and I sleep perfectly well at night.
JM - lock em up life is OK BUT - how about the guards? If they have nothing to lose …
I agree that we must be REAL sure of guilt but for the Carr types etc their removal seems appropriate. Now, if I take as a given that we want it painless it would seem that with the methods we have developed for animal euthanasia that we should have no problem doing that here. CO poisoning comes to mind.
By the way, executions have nothing to do with justice, but everything to do with revenge
An eye for an eye…punishment no worse than the crime. Forcing them to live an extended life with the knowlege of destroying innocent lives is cruel and inhuman punishment.
“By the way, executions have nothing to do with justice, but everything to do with revenge. Read your own posts.”
And like I said before…I see nothing wrong with revenge in this situation.
“He freely admitts to the murder he committed”
And if I am his Judge and that is the case the SOB would already be dead.
But Mary, you are concentrating all of Justice down to one injustice.
And I don’t wish to hurt you further with argument.
The fact of it is, our Justice system is badly broken. We MUST err on the side of the accused until we can be more certain of it.
“An eye for an eye…punishment no worse than the crime. Forcing them to live an extended life with the knowlege of destroying innocent lives is cruel and inhuman punishment.”
Not for someone without a conscience, G. They don’t care…if they had the capacity to feel regret, guilt, or compassion, they wouldn’t have killed in the first place.
I agree JR…but we also need to fix the victim’s side of the issue.
Goota go guys…time for work. Thanks for the great discussion this AM, I’m awake now!
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven” (Luke 6:37).
Jesus never said it would be easy…in fact, he said it would be very hard to follow him.
Snuff them all
they had the capacity to feel regret, guilt, or compassion,
I agree, Mary. I was arguing from JMW’s point of view. From your point of view it’s even more imperative to remove them from the resource load.
KsNat: I’m a long-haired radical. Tell me again about judging and condemning. And even those who forgive, then never FORGET.
Perhaps I should know more about the case you are personally involved in Mary.
But I don’t want you to linger over this. I can see it is hurtful to you.
The case you bring would seem to be more a failing of the parole process. And while this is a part of the Justice system, it is only a branch of it.
The guy gets parole because he gets God? I agree that sucks.
But do beware the revenge mentality. It gets innocent people run over in the rush. I know you don’t want that.
The notion that trash like the Carr brothers, or Radar, are breathing when all of their victims , except 1 , are not is repugnant. Their actions removed them from Humanity, and they should not be treated as such, IMHO.
Get a rope!!
This is why we should NOT shorten the appeal process and we should serious consider a moratorium on the Death Penalty, if not an outright ban.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=110
128 have been sentenced to death, only to be exonerated later.
That would mean 128 innocent people would have been executed.
Prison needs to be the worst experience of a person’s life. Cable, yeah, think NOT. Air conditioning, missed again. Make prison like the tent city. Force the prisoners to give back to society.
You know that stuff inside a baby’s diaper? That stuff that absorbs the fluid? That is recyclable. Let the prisoners extract that. Let them do the nastiest, filthiest, most manual/menial labor imaginable.
If you take someone’s life? Well, OK, there is man slaughter to consider, but murder? Life. You get to spend the rest of your life sorting through baby poo.
Giving these prisoners all the comforts of home is absurd. You know your tax dollars are paying for that cable TV right? Make prison the worst experience of their lives.
And to Clark’s point; by giving them life w/o parole doing some of the nastiest things they can imagine, you have the opportunity to right a wrong conviction.
So why don’t you give us the name of the murderer Mary so we can find some facts about the case? There’s no need to protect his privacy, since all inmates and former inmates are listed on the Kansas offenders website. Surely, if the man killed two people during an armed robbery his sentences wasn’t a short one.
For all of you Libs that don’t want the Death Penalty, the government will put a tick box on the Kansas State Income Tax form and Federal Income Tax forms.
It will take an extra $2000.00 for state and $2000.00 for Federal out of your income to pay for the life sentences of mass murderers.
That way, Libs can feel good about yourselves and Libs can pay for their beliefs of lifetime incarceration of a murderer.
#
beber
Posted April 17, 2008 at 9:26 am | Permalink
So why don’t you give us the name of the murderer Mary so we can find some facts about the case? There’s no need to protect his privacy, since all inmates and former inmates are listed on the Kansas offenders website. Surely, if the man killed two people during an armed robbery his sentences wasn’t a short one.
———————
beber,
Don’t put Mary’s life in jeopardy with your crap. I’ve seen the web page dedicated to her murdered friends and know about the case vaguely.
If this person ever gets out, he could threaten those who have something against him. So drop it Beber.
Regular,
I’ll assume you haven’t researched this in the last 15 years and aren’t trying to just prove ignorant. Also, throwing divisive party line rhetoric out is pointless. That is unless you too are just a partisan bitch.
“The death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of imprisonment for life.”
Citizens likely to vote in the next election were told that the death penalty costs the state an extra $3 million per year
The extra money spent on the death penalty could be spent
on other means of achieving justice and making the community safer: compensation
for victims, better lighting in crime areas, more police on the streets, or as has been
proposed here, funds for pursuing cold homicide cases.
I’ve heard that spew before Sol, ain’t buying it.
Prisoner’s serving life terms are entitled to the same costly appeals as death row inmates.
How’s that (in Sol’s words) “bitch?”
Regular writes:
If this person ever gets out, he could threaten those who have something against him.
According to Mary he is out.
Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant, McCluer.
Then KansasNative, it is better not to mention his name and have it tied to Mary.
What a justice system eh? Some one murders and is walking the streets because Libs want to “feel good.”
So who is it?
#
WSClark
Posted April 17, 2008 at 9:49 am | Permalink
Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant, McCluer.
—————-
Make yet another useless, fact-less, finger-pointing , blah blah comment Clark.
Why comment if you have nothing factual to add and only go for the personal attack?
That all you have Clark?
Surely you’re not that intellectually challenged that you cannot discuss a topic.
Then again…
“That all you have Clark?”
One, Mr. Dev VB posted that data indicating that the death penalty costs substantially more than life without parole.
Two, I posted data indicating that 128 inmates have been sentenced to death then exonerated.
If you call that “all you have” McCluer, then you are even more of an idiot than everyone thinks.
Instead of your useless, self-righteous rants, try responding to the FACTS.
We need to adopt the ‘fast track’ system they have in Texas. Anyone convicted of a capital crime with two or more witnesses gets a fast track to the execution chamber.
Mary, you are becoming more and more conservative over the years. Hard working, frugal, pro death penalty, pro life . . .let me know when you want to go for your CCH. I’ll buy you the handgun!
Just as the Abortion Rights activist claim Clark.
Death Penalies - it’s the law, deal with it.
What a justice system eh? Some one murders and is walking the streets because Libs want to “feel good.”
So don’t look at the problem - the legal system - but through out partisan rhetoric.
Just a Regular partisna bitch. How’s it feel to be a GOP bitch regular?
[partisan]
I’ve looked at the problem and have no problems with execution of murderers.
Sure, give them their day and day(s) in court for appeals, then hang em.
Sorry that name-calling is all you got in your back pocket Sol.
“Death Penalies - it’s the law, deal with it.”
Sure, but in your zeal to execute (’cuz you like killing) DO SOMETHING about the system that led to 128 innocent people being sentenced to death.
Then we can talk.
“Anyone convicted of a capital crime with two or more witnesses gets ” — HLP
Almost everyone freed from prison due to dna testing was put there by witnesses. In my opinion, eye-witnesses accounts should NEVER be sufficient alone to convict anyone of anything.
Look at the fine countries who also still have the death penalties. So glad the US is aligned with these folks.
Afghanistan
Bahrain
Cameroon
Chad
China
Congo
Cuba
Guatemala
Iran
Iraq
Korea, North
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Lebanon
Libya
Oman
Oman
Palestinian Authority
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Somalia
Syria
Tajikistan
United Arab Emirates
United States
Uzbekistan
Vietnam
What fine company we keep.
#
WSClark
Posted April 17, 2008 at 10:14 am | Permalink
“Death Penalies - it’s the law, deal with it.”
Sure, but in your zeal to execute (’cuz you like killing) DO SOMETHING about the system that led to 128 innocent people being sentenced to death.
Then we can talk.
————————-
I don’t have to do anything, the appeal process works.
Besides, how many of those 128 freed were released on “technical aspects” of the case and not for reasons that they were found innocent of the crime.
That is, some sort of ‘right’ was violated and addresses nothing about their guilt in committing murder.
Reg, and his ilk, have little, if any, respect for the living. They are against abortion, as I am, but after they are born, kill em off any way you can. Put em in uniform and send them to some God-forsaken place, like Iraq, and kill em over there. If it’s children, and their parents are unlucky enough to not be able to afford health care, so what? Kids don’t need health insurance now, do they? After all, they’re already born, so screw em.
Executions? Guilty or innocent, they’ve probably done something, so kill em anyway. DNA didn’t match after they’re dead? Tough sh**. I remember getting pulled over one time by the police, had a gun pointed at my head because I looked like a robbery suspect. Shooting took place during the robbery and one person seriously injured. My wife and kid were in the car with me. I could have very easily been charged with it if I didn’t have an airtight alibi. You don’t think that’s scary, you don’t know what scared is.
There have been way too many people exonerated via DNA and other evidence too continue killing people via execution. It boils down to revenge and nothing more. It boils down to a corrupt society that thinks executing someone will solve problems. That is wrong on so many levels, it boggles the minds of intelligent people.
I’ve looked at the problem and have no problems with execution of murderers.
I posted facts about the higher cost, which you got wrong in your original post. So you are wrong. Get it?
Do you have facts that state otherwise?
WS has given you cases where innocent people were executed. But you can’t speak to that can you? Kill em all. Hang em high.
Great arguments PB. Nothing to back your crap up with but… well, pretty much nothing but bringing partisan rhetoric. What a shill.
Oh yeah Regular PB, how does this fit in with –pro-life- anyway?
“That is, some sort of ‘right’ was violated and addresses nothing about their guilt in committing murder.”
I wondered how long it would take before someone came up with the “they got off on a technicality” line of “reasoning.” It didn’t take long.
Read the case studies - these are not folks that got off on a “technicality.”
Just for starters, 16 were exonerated based on DNA evidence - hardly a technicality.
#
Regular
Posted April 17, 2008 at 10:03 am | Permalink
Just as the Abortion Rights activist claim Clark.
Death Penalies - it’s the law, deal with it.
==================================================
You know, reg, some of us are advanced enough that we find both abortion and execution wrong.
But what I can’t find is any reference to “Death Penalies” anywhere. So I guess that ain’t the law:-)
So-called eye witness reports are seriously flawed. The police know that, the judicial system knows that, but the public is not so well informed. And that’s the way the justice system likes it. The less you know, the easier it is to convict:
“Murder, eyewitness identification and the limits of human vision
Geoffrey Loftus’ latest research reads more like a murder mystery than a scientific paper.
The University of Washington psychologist’s new study opens with a savage beating and murder on the streets of Fairbanks, Alaska. It features cameo appearances by Julia Roberts and other celebrities. It ends with the conviction of two men based on the eyewitness identification of the defendants from a distance of 450 feet. And, in a post-script, an appeals court orders a new trial based in part on “scientific trials” and conversations conducted by jurors outside the courthouse, without the judge’s knowledge. In between, the limits of the human visual system are explored.
Loftus, who testified as an expert witness in the case, examines why it is easier to identify someone close up rather than at a distance in an upcoming issue of the journal Psychonomic Bulletin & Review.
“When you see anything at a distance the human visual system starts to lose small details. The greater the distance the coarser the detail you lose, ” Loftus said.
“At 10 feet you might not be able to see individual eyelashes on a person’s face. At 200 feet you would not even be able to see a person’s eyes. At 500 feet you could see the person’s head but just as one big blur. There is equivalence between size and blurriness. By making something smaller you lose the fine detail.”
Co-author of the study is Erin Harley, who recently earned her doctorate at the UW and is now a post-doctoral researcher at the University of California at Los Angeles. The research was funded by the National Institute of Mental Health.
The researchers conducted a number of experiments to establish the relationship between blurriness and distance. First, they started with very small, unrecognizable images of famous people such as Roberts, Michael Jordan, Jennifer Lopez, Bill Gates and President George W. Bush. Next, the researchers gradually made the images larger until subjects could identify each celebrity. They recorded the size at which each celebrity was recognized and converted this to a corresponding distance. Loftus and Harley did similar tests using initially blurred images of celebrities and gradually clarified them until the test subjects were able to recognize the celebrities. This time they recorded the amount of blurring that made a face unrecognizable. All of the subjects in the experiments had at least uncorrected or corrected 20/20 vision.
“We determined that blurriness and distance are equivalent from the visual system’s perspective,” said Loftus. “When you make an image smaller you lose information in exactly the same way as happens when you keep the picture large but make it blurry. That is why when witnesses say they viewed something from 120 feet, for example, I can take a picture and know precisely how much to blur it to match that distance.”"
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-02/uow-mei021405.php
Wait wait wait. I think I understand the PB point of view:
1) Somebody killed somebody else
2) Somebody needs to die for it
3) Doesn’t really matter who it is
4) Guilty or innocent, they’ll die just the same
5) Sing kumbaya and pat ourselves on the back repeatedly
6) Hell they’d hug each other if they weren’t so homophobic.
#
JMWalker
Posted April 17, 2008 at 10:25 am | Permalink
#
Regular
Posted April 17, 2008 at 10:03 am | Permalink
Just as the Abortion Rights activist claim Clark.
Death Penalies - it’s the law, deal with it.
==================================================
You know, reg, some of us are advanced enough that we find both abortion and execution wrong.
But what I can’t find is any reference to “Death Penalies” anywhere. So I guess that ain’t the law:-)
———————
I think you’re entitled to your opinion J M Walker as I’m entitled to mine.
Mass murderers like Gacy, Manson and others who are simply monsters, predators and pure evil don’t deserve to live.
It’s like that hoopla that the Libs on this Blog that were trying to hold the former Governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee, accountable for the released rapist that ended up raping and killing again. The Progressive Libs were all over that story because of their partisan rhetoric.
There was no Lib Battle Cry then stating, “Okay, it was fair, the guy was let out and not executed. Too bad that woman got raped and killed though.”
Clark and others point out about how “X” numbers were released for one reason or another.
How many of those in the past that have been released only to commit more crimes and yes, even murder?
Refer to points 2-4 and add in “Screw the DNA results” just for Reg PB
BTW, I think if you read the posts, most who oppose the death penalty advocate life w/o parole.
“How many of those in the past that have been released only to commit more crimes and yes, even murder?”
=================================================
If there was actually real justice, they wouldn’t be out. You are entitled to your opinion, but justice has nada to do with it; it is revenge driven and nothing more. And you being the religious being you make yourself out to be, Doesn’t the new testament say revenge is God’s entitlement?
And don’t even come out with the eye for an eye hogwash. It would mean the bible is wrong, as you can’t have both, but that never stopped the RR before, I doubt it would stop them now.
After reading all the posts, I find my conviction to my first post even more so. No one here who backs executions has shown anything but a revenge motivation, And that flies directly in the face of the bible.
JM Walker, it’s not revenge driven, it is justice driven - huge difference.
I leave you with this pun:
Two boll weevils grew up in Mississippi. One went to Hollywood and became a famous actor, but ended up killing someone in pre-meditated murder and was scheduled for execution.
The other boll weevil stayed behind in the cotton fields and never amounted to much, but accidentally killed someone with his car while driving drunk and received twenty years in prison.
The second boll weevil, naturally, became known as the lesser of two weevils.
:cool:
Regular
Posted April 17, 2008 at 11:02 am | Permalink
JM Walker, it’s not revenge driven, it is justice driven - huge difference.
=================================================
As an answer to that, I suggest you go back and read the posts. Justice has nothing to do with it.
When you come up with an original pun, I might laugh:-)
“How many of those in the past that have been released only to commit more crimes and yes, even murder?”
So in your own fractured way, you are trying to ask how many of the 128 murdered or committed crimes after being released, McCluer?
So the fact that they were innocent of the murder that they were convicted of is irrelevant?
Are you arguing for preemptive execution, because they MIGHT kill in the future?
Huh?
I am very much in favor of life without the possibility of parole for convicted murderers.
Personally, I cannot imagine a worse sentence for someone, especially a young person, than to know that when that cell door closes behind you, it is never going to open again.
Some try to make out prison as if it is a country club environment with fun ‘n’ games and daily activities for the happy campers.
Far from it.
Try watching some of MSNBC’s Lock Down and other programs of a similar nature and ask yourself if you would like to spend everyday of the rest of your life like that.
I thought the last time this came up, someone posted information on the cost of executing death row inmates and it turned out to be greater than life incarceration?
At any rate, I believe you really could recoup some of the cost of executions if you made it public. For those who gasp at such a notion, for much of our nations history, that’s exactly what they did. It was quite the event too! Announced in papers, people got off work to watch, businessmen made sales, cotton-candy type vendors, and photographers taking pictures for sale! Were our ancestors less moral?
Today we have HD TV and cable. Executions could be advertised in advance and sold pay per view.
The profits could be equally split between the broadcaster, the state, and the victims families.
I’m not being cruel or funny. Just being realistic. Look at what people are already watching and reading on the internet! Whenever a video of a muslim cutting off a persons head is published - it gets millions of hits! School kids fighting? Millions of hits. Porn? Millions of hits. I’m telling you: Public executions would sell millions too! Popcorn sales would skyrocket.
It we are going to the expense of taking a human life, at least try to save the taxpayers a couple of bucks on the deal. And maybe help a few victims along the way too.
Sol, I agree with you, mostly. As you admitted, those later exonerated were done so because of DNA. Now think when they were convicted–before DNA technology (while still not perfect, but is improving everyday) was available. In my view, hard DNA evidence without an identical twin to confuse the issue is compelling evidence. That man on trial for rape and murder better have some good facts on that woman’s favorite color, sign, and how she likes her marguirita if he wants consideration of innocence.
The murderer caught in the act by police with a dozen witnesses standing by better have some compelling evidence about a clone from the future.
I mean, our prisons are filling up. It’s what? 1% of our population in prison? And many are for crap crimes like a bit of weed. Why waste time/resources on the incorrigible?
Im not against the DP I think that there are certainly crimes that warrent it. My probelm it that the government makes too many mistakes, their are many cases where a innocent person is locked up, the standards for putting someone to death should be higher. and on a side note what is the difference between revenge and justice? To me they are often the same.
“It we are going to the expense of taking a human life, at least try to save the taxpayers a couple of bucks on the deal”
You are way too sick to be walking our streets.
I think revenge and justice are the same, too, Tom. No different than spanking your kid for breaking your drill (by throwing it through the TV). It’s a way to show the perpetrator, “Hey! You FU’d!”
Have y’all ever watched Cops or most extreme or the like? I hear of folks getting busted with some pot getting 20 years while someone who commits a violent crime gets a few. A woman hired a hit man for her husband. Paid him. When she was busted, she got 9 years. Eligible for parole in 3. So, try to kill someone, 9 years. Smoke some herb, get 20. WTF???
I am actually opposed to the death penalty.
I believe that those who would have receieved that sentence should be given a true life sentence instead.
Those individiuals who have done such horrible things may still have yet a chance to seek God’s forgiveness in their life time.
Our job as responsible citiznes is to ensure that they are no longer a threat to others which can be done by an ACTUAL life sentence in prison.
Sol, they have too make room for all the nonviolent victimless crimes, with the prisons already full that often means releasing violent crimanals back into society. And to appear to be tough on crime goverments often impose mandatory miniuim sentances on drug offenders so you someone who gets 10-15 years for smoking weed while a drunk driver who murders someone gets probation
And whats so wrong with giving the person convicted and sentenced a BULLET BETWEEN THE EYES? All child molesters, murder’s, rapist should be shot with no 2nd chance to commit the crime again! I would volentier my time and the bullets. I am going to hell anyway because I enjoy smoking and drinking and gambling.
I fully believe in the death penalty. And once DNA is proven, let’s do like Texas and put in an express lane. Those who have committed heinous crimes with no mercy for their victims deserve none either. No long drawn out appeals, once convicted let’s get on with it. I’m tired of paying for bottom feeder’s food and cushy living. I’m all for prisons adopting the Arizona sherriff’s ideas of no tv, no weights etc.
And those convicted of petty drug use, there’s your gazillion dollar worthless war on drugs. let people smoke weed without penalty.
I am going to hell anyway because I enjoy smoking and drinking and gambling.
You actually enjoy that?!?!?
I just do it all to keep me in balance.
let people smoke weed
They do drive slower than the drunks.
Eat, drink, and be merry (smoke dope falls into the “be merry category for the likes of some of you), but do so to the glory of God.
I drink to the Cardinal Puff for the fifth time this evening….
Here’s to you God!
“They do drive slower than the drunks.”
Yeah, and really slow when they also try to dial on their cell phones.
cells were the size of a brick when I was a stoner. More than a “Honey, I’m alive” would wear out your arm.
Amway, what is Cardinal Puff?
to the way Cardinal Puff is played, but here’s where we separate the kiddies from the adults.. :) Cardinal Puff (The real and only way to play); Start with a pint glass of your favorite barley pop, full. The objective: Finish the glass in six tries, and leave no backwash. -The penalty for such will be revealed shortly, read on. Grab the pint glass with your thumb and forefinger and hoist. “I drink to the honorable Cardinal Puff for the first time tonight.” Consume that which you can (remember there are five other drinks from the pint ahead, so don’t do too much). Tap the glass, once on the bar top, then set it down. With the fore finger of each hand, tap the bar top (alternating left/right), tap the underside of the bar top, tap each thigh top, tap each thigh back side, tap each foot, sit up, then down once. Grab the pint, hoist aloft using thumb, index and forefinger and toast “To the Cardinal Puff Puff, for the second time this evening.” Consume two times, tap the glass twice on the bar top, and use two fingers and repeat the first step (tap, tap, etc…) On the third try, the player (or victim), will say; “I drink to the Cardinal Puff, Puff, Puff, for the third and final time this evening.” Hoist glass using thumb, and three fingers and consume all remaining brew in three separate drinks (making sure there is virtually none left in the glass). With three fingers, repeat tapping sequence (three times each, obviously). Upon finishing tapping sequence and sitting sequence, the subject needs to grab the glass with an inverted grip and proclaim “Once a Cardinal, always a Cardinal, never spill a drop.” While proclaiming this, the player inverts the glass, releases the grip and inverts (to upright) again. -There should be no liquid from the glass on the bar from the inverted pint (other than glass condensate), if there is.. -Drink! Repeat the whole process again! If there is none, the ruling Judge shall ask the subject; “Are you a Cardinal?” To which the subject shall reply; “You bet your sweet ass I am!” -Any other answer is unacceptable and constitutes repeating the whole process again. If, in future times, you are appraoched and asked “Are you a Cardinal?” The only answer can be; “You bet your sweet ass I am.” The person asking the question may then challenge the person by saying; “Prove it.” The person MUST prove they are by doing the whole process before you. They in turn, can ask the same of you. To make the game more challenging, my best friend and I have upped the anti… The basic level is Cardinal Puff, accomplished by one pint glass. The following is the rules for advancing in the ranks. :) Cardinal One pint glass Bishop Two pint glasses, the first glass fully consumed on round one, then parts two and three on glass two. Arch Bishop Three pint glasses, one for each part of the game. Pope A pitcher. Here’s the kicker. In order to proceed up the ranks, you have to accomplish each step before it at one sitting! So far, I know of only three people that have ever accomplished that feat. Me, I’m stuck at Arch Bishop before I give in.. :) So, are you a Cardinal?? :)
thank god sombody else did the grun work for me
The problem with DNA whichiwoman is that people can plant it. Wait until all of our DNA is on file. The rate of unjust convictions will skyrocket, or it might be that every crime site will contain so much DNA, all of it will be worthless. I would wager already that a clever rapist or two is planting false DNA. All you’d have to do is pick up a used rubber in an alley, or have a moron cousin provide the sample. DNA is going to prove to be a mess.
and whoever it was who dreamed up personalized ring tones
You have my vote!
beber, do you get all your science training from prime time entertainment television?
Before all you good people get so hot and bothered for the blood of criminals, maybe you should consider what you might say to the child of that innocent man when the inevitable mistake occurs. I doubt that an “Oops, sorry” will suffice.
And for all you believers in the infallibility of DNA, I might point out that we’ve already seen cases of labs making errors and even skewing the results whatever way the prosecution wants.
Some of the comments here make me wonder if the general public is just as bloodthirsty as they make the criminals out to be!
Fish,
Cardinal Puff sounds complicated. I’ll just drink. : )
Beber: I assume that the correct DNA evidence is intact.
Jed: Explaining to the criminal’s child is not my obligation, it is up to the criminal to explain why he/she committed such a heinous crime in the first place.
Don’t do the crime if you don’t want to be punished and that’s what we’re talking about, punishment. I have no reservations that the Carrs, Dennis Rader and the like deserve to die. And I don’t give a hoot if it’s humane or not. They deserve to die like the dogs they are.
And furthermore, before you call me blood thirsty, I’m not. I’m one of the most compassionate, giving people with a bleeding heart, but not on this issue. Most issues I might be more like Monkeyhawk, but there are at least 2 or 3 of which I’m unwavering, without apology.
“beber, do you get all your science training from prime time entertainment television?” — ghot.
I get my science information from “science Digest,” “New Sceintists,” “Science Daily News,” and the “New Yorker,” which on many science topics, beats them all. I don’t watch prime time television. Where do you get your information — the Discovery channel?
Let me throw a valid question out there:
Considering the fact so many have been let out of death row, and prison, because of irrefutable DNA evidence, how many executions of totally innocent people do you deem a fair number, and why?
YIKES!
No wonder no one could ever explain Cardinal Puff so I could understand it. Like Wichi, my reply in the old days was “awww hell, let’s just chug”. I’d say that for reasons that will soon become apparent.
Fish, could you achieve that Arch Bishop rank AND be a stoner at the same time? ‘Cause if so…
DUDE!!!!!
Here’s a case from the Salina Journal that is just fishy as hell. Of course I wasn’t at the trial, and had I been on the jury, I might have been the first to convict. Basically, there is NO evidence in this case.
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/story/Salinan_standing_trial_for_rape_010208
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/story/trial_web_brief_010308
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/story/Berriozabal_rape_trial_day_two_010308
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/story/Berriozabal_trial_day_three_010408
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/story/Salinamanguilty1_7_08
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/story/Salinamanguilty1_7_08
Wichi,
If you re-read my post, you might notice that I was asking you to respond to the child of a parent who was wrongly executed. Since you are one of those screaming for blood vengeance at any cost, you do have an obligation to answer when that child asks why his father was executed.
Our court system is not error-free; it is inevitable that at some point an innocent person will be executed. When that happens, you better have an answer ready.
fish - yes, I am a Cardinal. I became one at UCLA many years ago!
Jed, you or I will never get those condoning execution to answer that question. To honestly do so, that innocent people are executed occasionally, totally negates any and all arguments for execution. A normal person could not, under any given circumstances, justify executing an innocent person. To do so constitutes accepting murder, and that, in my opinion, divides the civilized from the uncivilized.
JM,
Another of those questions that may never be answered is how many innocent people have already been executed. There are a few high-profile cases where it was possible and even likely, but most of the executed never had their cases examined all that closely.
We will not give up our God-given right to capital punishment.
Monkeyhawk
Posted April 17, 2008 at 1:25 pm | Permalink
Hawk,
Your best post, ever.
Nathaniel
Posted April 17, 2008 at 12:20 pm | Permalink
Nathan,
Your best post, ever. Thank you, sir.
B..I have no problem stating the name of the man who murdered our friends..his name is Alfred Jones and he shot John and Sue Marshall execution style in the 1960s during a robbery. He received a life sentence but served less than 22 yrs before he was let out. He has been out on parole 3 times, each time he just committed more crimes and was sent back to prison.
He is well aware that our families have actively protested his parole for the last several years..all three times when he was let out on parole, neither we or the Marshall family were made aware of his release by the parole board. He has had every chance for freedom, and each time he has proven he can’t handle it. He is a sociopath and he can’t be rehabilitated because he has no conscience. I just hope he doesn’t hurt or kill anyone before he gets sent back after he screws up again.
“Mary, you are becoming more and more conservative over the years. Hard working, frugal, pro death penalty, pro life . . .let me know when you want to go for your CCH. I’ll buy you the handgun”
LOL, HLP…I’m getting my CC license next Saturday!!
It’s supposed to be a joke, though. I’m doing it with my brother and sister.. and both are about as right wing, conservative, NRA loving, flag waving, and Christian as anyone can get. I’m really I’m not conservative at all. I prefer to think and use my brain instead. I believe in gay rights, equal rights, I oppose the Iraqi war, I can’t stand George Bush, and I’m a registered Democrat…Obama has my vote so far!
Still concerned about you though Mary. Hope that guy gets “take care of” some day.
God given right to capital punishment? Newman, I thought your hypocritical bible said thou shalt not kill?
Mary,
You do realize you will have to hold and fire one of those evil handguns to pass the class, don’t you?
By the way, whose handgun will you be using for the class?
I have for a long while thought Mary was a Republican.
She lives with them. (I’ve seen the neighborhood) She condemns the poor.
She is all in favor of the Republican sympathizer Obama.
Fare thee well Mary. Sorry money and comfort lost you your principles.
Here’s mary caruso’s offender?
http://165.201.143.205/kasper2/offender.asp?id=1776
How can you say I “condemn” the poor, JR? I work with the disenfranchised every day and I know the need, pain, and hopelessness…I just don’t believe in enabling those who are capable of better if given the right opportunity and held responsible. I always advocate for those who can’t do it for themselves and I always hold those accountable who have the capacity to step up to the plate and make changes.
Nathan..I have always shot a gun…I will be using a 45 at the range. I’m hoping to learn more because that’s the way to know an issue..not just always look at one side of things. I want to see all aspects of any issue I feel strongly about.
Besides it’s fun to target shoot..I’ve done it many times.
That’s him Beber…and as you can see he has a rap sheet a mile long. BTW, he’ll be free to roam your neighborhood in June.
Mary
- as to JR:
Don’t sweat him. No one does self-rightous BS like JR. He’s become more and more unstable these last few months; as the Hillary/Obama drama plays out, it appears he can’t bear to have fellow Democrats dare to disagree with him.
Now THERE’S a guy who has no business carrying a weapon.
Congrats on the CC, BTW. Whether you actually choose to exercise it is up to you, of course. Remember (and I know you well understand) the responsibility you undertake if you choose to carry.
It requires an extreme degree of naivety to believe that innocent people have not already been executed. And frequently.
I won’t belabor the point as most everything I could say has already been said. I would only add this: you can’t “fix” the justice system (whatever that means) without making room for the life-without-parole people.
(Actually, I think the hard-40 will probably suffice).
For starters, we need to take a fresh look at the so-called “war on drugs.”
P.S. I knew someone who was stridently pro-death-penalty for reasons similar to Mary (I, incidently, also don’t believe in an afterlife–and don’t see the relevance). She stated that guy killed her friend, and got out in 2 years.
When I pressed her for details, she didn’t have any. She didn’t even know what crime for which he was convicted and sentenced.
So, unless you support the death penalty for, say, a manslaughter conviction, the specific facts do matter.
Here’s mary caruso’s offender?
http://165.201.143.205/kasper2/offender.asp?id=1776
If so, it looks like the guy was homeless in 1995, and got convicted of crashing in an empty house, and of burglary.
PorQue?,
“We will not give up our God-given right to capital punishment.”
So the same god that gave Moses those commandments told you that it was your right to kill people? Your god sounds a bit confused!
Mary,
WHOSE gun will you be using?
You wouldn’t have one of those evil guns in your home would you?
It’s an old army issue colt 45 that belongs to my father in law. I’m comfortable with shooting it, that’s why I’m using it. Your dad was generous to offer me one of his..I’ll probably take him up on the ear protection.
“If so, it looks like the guy was homeless in 1995, and got convicted of crashing in an empty house, and of burglary.”
Rage..he was on parole for armed robbery in California when he murdered our two friends, he was out on parole twice after that and committed more crimes, and more than burglery, he has all sorts of drug and weapons convictions..and he was never homeless.
I’m REALLY offended at your weird attempt to minimize his crimes, and I’m not sure why they don’t list them all. He’s always been a danger to society and he always will be.
Maybe if you’re lucky out he’ll move in next door to you.
Nathan, I have no intention of ever carrying a gun…I’m just wanting to do this for fun with my brother and sister and to learn more about guns. Like I said before, I enjoy target shooting.
I’m still a big proponent of gun control.
GMC, Nathan, and your neighbor Hank have coronated you Mary. You’re vetted.
You are a Republican. You live like one. You live with them.
Our side is sorry to lose you. But you never really were on our side at all. It just made you feel better to pretend at it.
You help people during the day and get paid to do so.
Then you bash on them afterwords.
I s that about right?
I think for myself, JR and I really doubt that Hank and Nathan consider me one of their own.
I don’t belong to either “side”, and no one has “lost” me.
Get over the “us against them” attitude that you’ve branded into your head…it’s meaningless and solves nothing. You know nothing about what I do and don’t do for the poor and mentally ill.
You have no business judging me or anyone else for that matter.
9f6c310124caea4f98a0dc02bdc899b2
The death penalty is expressly provided for in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. In this day and age, it is not imposed unless there is absolute proof and the crime is heinous.
The cost factor exists because of unlimited appeals and legal fees.
Was it racially applied, yes, but not anymore. Does it deter a crazy, homicidal killer, maybe not, but it does keep them from killing again and again while in prison.
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