You decide. This is entirely too weird. du….

I accept your unspoken apology that I would nic-switch to attack you.

That’s not my bag. You know it, and I know it.

Anything else?

I could not have said it better than farmgrrl did.

But I must note this. MOST Obama supporters have been ok with letting the process go on. WS, Capn, and a few others have not been so patient. They have been borderline cruel and dismissive to Senator Clinton supporters at times.

And who is it that it is here in THEIR darkest hour here offering comfort? The very folks they were willing to leave behind.

Well I don’t bail on a friend. And I don’t duck a fight. And I don’t like sucker punches.

My troubles as to Obama are well known.

But I too hurt for him. His pastor is not a good man or a good friend. Obama has a right, in my view, to find some way to denounce him.

That max, always good for comic relief.

Can any of you Dems explain the difference between Obama and Clinton ON THE ISSUES?

http://www.issues2000.org/default.htm

1) Clinton supports gay rights more then Obama? Not that I care, or not that more then 95% of America cares, but how is that gay rights difference displayed in their voting records or bills THEY have introduced?

2) Clinton voted for the war, and Obama did not. OK. How many different promises have we heard from BOTH of them regarding their plans for the future?

3) Clinton’s National Healthcare would be mandatory. Obama’s National Healthcare would not be mandatory.

Ok, MAYBE, 3 differences.

Other then that, their views on the issues are IDENTICAL!

And no Clark, Clinton is far different then McCain in many ways.

1) McCain served is country on the battlefield, Clinton in the courts.

2) McCain would not ban guns, Clinton would.

3) Both suck, but McCain sucks less. Obama sucks the most.

Clark, I’m going to give you a pass on some of your most offensive and bitter comments here. Partly because I like you, and have always said so, and partly because I understand you are hurting. It hurts to watch someone you respect and support get hammered.

I know. I feel that way every time someone hammers Hillary unjustly.

Notice, I said unjustly. She certainly has issues that invite hammering. I’ve also said that all along. I have not given her a pass on anything. I think she’s the best nominee to defeat mcsame. I think she will be the most competent to govern after November. I think the country needs her, and needs her now.

And therein would lie the difference between some Hillary supporters and some obama supporters. We recognize she is flawed. We already knew going into this that she was not to be idolized and that she had clay feet.

When folks lifted obama to saint hood, and refused to acknowledge even the slightest flaw in him without screaming race, they were bound to be disappointed at some point. I think you are a good example, Clark, of why I say “the bigger they are, the harder they fall”.

The higher the pedestal you put your candidate on, the farther they have to fall.

Some of us have pointed out obama’s flaws before, and why we think he is NOT the best nominee. We’ve been laughed at, cussed at, whined at, and had some vicious stuff said to us. By fellow liberals.

And now, when you cant ignore his flaws anymore, WE are to blame? Hillary is to blame? Anyone is to blame besides st. obama himself? And it can only be because of race?

In case you havent noticed here, I call out all churches, not just black churches. I generally call out all nut case ministers, black and white. But yeah, I am most disappointed in the damage done to my community by the black churches.

I think you’ll understand when I say that it is damned disappointing to be let down by a group you feel kinship with and think THEY of all groups should understand oppression and support you in throwing off chains.

I’m thinking that is how you must feel about fellow liberals and dems who just dont undertand how important you believe it is to elect obama. You dont understand why I think it is so important to elect Hillary.

And just like I’m not giving obama a pass because he’s black, I’m not attacking him because he’s black. The mclurkin incident is not trivial to me. It is an important issue to me because it speaks to my concerns about the candidate and his character and his priorities.

And whining about DOMA and DADT doesnt sway me a bit. To say it was part of their “platform” is nonsense. They were the best compromises that could be worked out at the time. Hell, if the black AND white churches and black AND white preachers hadnt been hell bent to amend the constitution, DOMA would not have happened. And DADT is a disaster for everyone, but it was better than what existed before. Marginally, but still better. I dont fault either of the Clintons for those two blunders.

I’m sure it also hurts to find out that Mr. Hope and Change is not the bullet proof candidate you thought he was. When your reason for supporting someone is that he is BETTER than everyone else and you swallow the hope and change message whole, and then find out obama is human with feet of clay, it hurts.

And it must doubly hurt that obama’s real weakness is being exposed now. And that is… he is truely just like all the rest of the politicians in Washington. I know you thought he was better, but he’s not. And I agree, this country is not in a position to bet all the chips on bipartisanship. Some of us have been saying that, and gee… it’s true. Does that make me happy? No, but it is reality. Welcome to the real world.

So… Clark, I’m gonna give you a pass here. Now, you can tell me to kiss yer ass and phuck off or whatever. You can hate me or disrespect me or whatever. You can call Hillary anything you want.

But you still cant stop me from respecting you and liking you.

And you are blaming all the wrong people.

And Monkeyhawk, it was not that long ago I lamented that I hated when Democrats fight. You assured me it was healthy and part of the process.

And you were right.

But this ISN’T nothing. And I don’t know how Obama gets out of it. He sure will not be inspired to try by such as WS.

What have I said all along?

It’s early. What’s the rush?

Well I guess it is a good thing Senator Clinton stuck the race. Because this stuff was going to happen anyway.

Now you can fight for Obama and the party or you can quit.

Based on what, four more years in the Senate? What else has Hillary done with her “35 years of experience?”

Why would Obama even remotely CONSIDER taking a VP slot to Clinton give the abuse heaped on him by Hillary and Bill?

“One is switching his nics and the other wants to blame all the wrong people.”

The only one that has switched nics is you, J R.

“How much crap have me and farmgrrl and others had to take from you and Capn WS?”

The Clintons supported DOMA and “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” as part of their platform, yet Obama is the anti-gay, homophobe?

Yeah, right. The Clintons have done more to set back gay rights than any Democrats in memory.

Crap from Obama supporters?

Do you mean like Obama should drop out and let Clinton have the nomination because she DESERVES it?

This in the middle of an Obama eleven primary win streak?

Yeah, right.

You could not get me to vote for McCain if you had a gun to my head.

You could not get me to vote for the Green Party if you had a gun to my head, either.

Who is Hillary Clinton’s pastor?

Who is George WMD Bush’s pastor?

Ah! But somehow Barack Obama’s pastor is an issue?!

Meanwhile, April saw more Americans killed in Iraq than any month since September, 2007.

“The surge is working.” And will keep on “working” for a hundred years.

If Stephen Douglas had worn a flag lapel pin he’d be on the five-dollar bill today.

Priorities, people.

Why I guess he would have packed it in because his supporters can’t stick a fight?

I wasn’t even all that FOR Clinton. How fair is all of this to John Edwards?

Now Obama made a pretty speech 4 years ago and people put ideas in his head. Against a lot of odds, he has come this far. And whether you would admit it or not, he has been afforded much.

But we are picking the President for maybe the most important election in our remembered history. Now either he has the stuff or he never did. And alot of what he has comes from his supporters. He thrives on attention.

Well that has a price. Even as late as it came, it is here.

Are ya game or not?

One is switching his nics and the other wants to blame all the wrong people.

How much crap have me and farmgrrl and others had to take from you and Capn WS?

And WE and Senator Clinton did not make Obama’s pastor say this stuff.

And here I am a grudging Clinton supporter TRYING to keep you from quitting.

Even though I don’t like much the way you speak of me and some other of your fellow posters.

I have no data to back it up, but my gut tells me the reason for Hillary’s surge has less to do with Wright or Harvard or his being black, and more to do with the fact the many Democrats are seeing Hillary when she’s in full fightin’ mode.

You get the feeling watching her that anybody want a piece of her, she’d take over in that alley over there and let’s go. Bring out the knives? Cool, she’d be down with that (figuratively) (should go without saying, but hey).

You see a lot of that kind of fight in Obama, too, but you see more of it in Hillary right now.

Americans love to see their leaders relish a fight.

Who cares what you think, J R?

“Well if Obama hasn’t got anymore in him than you are showing right now WS?”

I have lost more than you will ever have, J R.

“Did me or farmgrrl or political mama cry foul, throw up our hands and quit?”

No, you all whined like a bunch of schoolgirls that didn’t get invited to the Junior High School prom.

Who was crying a month ago that Obama was hurting poor Hillary and he should just get out of the way and she would let him have the presidency in 2016?

That would be you, J R.

He should never have been in the race in the first place.

Now I don’t happen to believe that. Not about him and not about you.

How many damned threads have we had of Randy’s blatantly shilling for Obama? Did me or farmgrrl or political mama cry foul, throw up our hands and quit?

You are making me talk about this and I really would rather not.

I don’t know what pastor Wrights agenda is. But it is HIM is your problem. Obama must have lousy advisers but he’s got a gift for speech. He CAN get out of this. But not if he just decides like you have that the deck is stacked and quits.

The established power structure in Washington has decided - they will not allow a new face, a new brand of politics to take the stage.

This is a done deal - despite being behind in delegates and popular vote, Clinton will get the GOP, er, Democratic nomination and she will lose badly to McCain.

Then the Clintons will blame it all on Obama and his supporters.

This is a done deal - you could see it coming but you just could not believe that it would happen.

It has.

Say goodnight, America, it is over for hope and bipartisanship.

You’re kidding right?

The media has been TOO kind to Obama. This crap about his ….crazy? pastor should have been distanced from him a year ago.

And ya know what WS? Right now you are demonstrating the worst in the Obama supporters. He and you all have had it so easy that the first bloody nose or hurt feeling and you want to take your marbles and go home.

Obama aint beat. Not by Senator Clinton, the media, little green men, or anything else. He needs to get off the damn canvas and fight.

This is meant honestly. You can believe me or not.

Right now, the best thing he can do is accept Senator Clinton’s debate offer. Think about it. It would be a new story. So long as the pastor doesn’t do any MORE damage. Senator Clinton can’t attack him on or even mention the pastor in that debate.

Politics aint beanbag and this election is important. Now can the pity party and get back in the fight.

Democratic activist since 1968 - that’s me.

Former anti-choice, right wing Republican - that’s you.

And you think that your opinion of a Democratic candidate for president carries more weight?+

Who gives a damn what you think, J R?

I have given this a lot of thought - there is nothing separating Clinton and McCain other than the “D” or “R” behind their names.

It will not make a damned bit of difference which one of these is elected president. You may as well close your eyes and just toss a dart - the results will be the same.

The GOP, the Democrats and the MSM has been looking for a reason - any reason - to derail the hope and optimism of the Obama campaign.

They have succeeded.

And now they wonder why many Americans are cynical.

Elect Hillary McCain - who gives a damn?

You or Capn.

With the sour grapes and accusations I mean? I know you all are having one shitty day among a string of bad ones. But this vast conspiracy you just named? A bit of a stretch don’t you think?

And even if ya don’t think.

Hey guy? Right now Obama’s biggest enemy in this big bad world is the guy he calls or called “pastor”. If you have to be mad at somebody, you’d be entirely justified being mad at him.

I can make guesses as to what is with the pastor. He could have anything from jealousy, to ego issues. Maybe the fact that the story was going away did not sit well with him since he did not come off well in it. Maybe he really is a racist and is trying to pull off the greatest racial rift of the new century. Maybe it’s as simple as he wants to sell a book and become a speaking star himself.

Or maybe he is just plain, batshit, crazy. And the sob is on a speaking tour so who knows what he says or does next.

How Obama gets rid of him at this point I don’t know. But he is going to HAVE to do something and fast. And blaming everyone but pastor Wright in the meantime does not help him at all.