WE Blog

Lead balloon…

Screen Doors on a submarine…

Obama dropping out of the Presidential race…

All of them ideas and…

Well, all of them are ideas…

Good morning Regualar!

Most submarines I’ve been on have had screen doors! They are round, fit over the hatch and are hinged in the middle so we could get them through the hatch to store them at sea.

Rediculous idea – just as stupid as the idea that Hillary could torch the Democratic Party and come back in 2012. If it is perceived that EITHER Democrat helped McBush gain the White House that person would become a pariah within the Party. Being significantly younger (and ‘newer’) than Clinton Obama WOULD have an interesting shot in 2016 after two Clinton terms. He would have eight years in the Senate, presumably in the majority party, to really develop a track record.

The keys now are the handful of remaining primaries and what the popular vote total is. I think that is what will sway the ’supers’ and ‘others’ among the delegates.

I do worry (A LOT!) about whether our country can survive another four years of stay the failed course — and I’m talking about much more than bush’s war of choice.

BUT, if McCain is elected president and if our country did survive, it would effectively end what the Republican Party has become under neocons. That would be a good thing for THE WORLD!

The Republicans seem not to understand the concept of having excellent candidates to choose from, or spending the time it takes (and we have!) to make sure the best from among excellence is chosen.

They’re stuck with one they don’t even like!

“Wow, Rev Wright is killing Obama this morning again on CNN coverage at the National Press Club.”

Wasn’t there someone on this blog who predicted this? For the life of me, I can’t remember who that was!

Outlander –

Saw part of that speech by Wright this a.m. I don’t think he’s killing Obama at all; in fact, the more people see of Rev. Wright, the less he hurts Obama. You may not agree with everything he says (I don’t), but there’s nothing dangerous, or extremely radical, or particular scary about him, and there are some hard truths about American history we like to keep buried.

He, and by association Obama, were judged on a soundbite; when the soundbite is expanded, the attack turns out to be mostly political BS (and by the Hillary camp, BTW, “swiftboating” their own).

One of the two excellent candidates will become the nominee. The process of deciding the nominee isn’t complete, nobody needs to withdraw. There are states with scheduled primaries who haven’t been heard from and deserve their part in the process. That’s what happens when there are CHOICES. Which, btw, the Republican Party doesn’t have!

I listened to the interview of Pastor Wright last Friday evening on PBS and was glad to know more than the soundbites, and disappointed, once again, in media and the games of politics.

If Obama drops out, he’ll be immediately courted an drafted by Canada, France, Australia or the UK where his image/reputation could make him Prime Misister in a New York minute. The world just loves this guy.

I would agree that the Clintons had no hand in any of this “Wright stuff”.

Wright is being dishonest about “sound bites” and “looping” of what he said.

Pastor Wright, himself, sold his sermons over the internet. Any “editing” that was done was under his direction.

There is no “context” that can justify what Pastor Wright said.

There is no excuse, other than agreement, for Obama to stay in that congregation.

Funny, this Leonard Pitts column appeared in the Lawrence paper today. Since I dont get the paper edition of the WE, AND I didnt see this in the online edition, I’m posting it here.

I dont normally do the long cut and paste thing, but I dont have a link. I hope thinking people will read this and understand.

Leonard Pitts: Modern Christianity out of step with Jesus’ teachings

Published Monday, April 28, 2008

“James Lawson is out of step with modern Christianity.

Take gay marriage. Speaking in support of a proposed state
constitutional ban on same-sex unions, one Rev. Hayes Wicker of First
Baptist Church in Naples, Fla., was recently quoted by the Naples Daily
News as saying, “This is a tremendous social crisis, greater even
than
the issue of slavery.”

As asinine as that remark is, it is perfectly in step with much of
modern Christianity, which has spent years demonizing gay men and
lesbians. And then there’s the Rev. Lawson, who was scheduled to
speak
this past weekend at the 10th anniversary conference of Soulforce, a
group that fights church-based homophobia. Few things could be more
“out” of step.

Lawson, you may know, is an icon of the civil rights movement; it was
he
who invited Martin Luther King to Memphis to support the striking
sanitation workers. He sees his longtime involvement with Soulforce as
part of the same struggle.

“The human rights issue is not a single issue,” he told me
recently. “It
is about all human kind. And all human kind has been endowed with
certain inalienable rights.”

My interview with Lawson was set before Wicker’s remark, but I leapt
at
the chance to ask him about it.

“Obviously,” said Lawson, “he does not know anything about the
250 years
of slavery or the 143 years since slavery as the nation has largely
failed to deal with the issue of slavery and its consequences. … And
he knows even less about the gospel of Jesus. … Jesus broke all the
social etiquette in terms of relating to people and bringing people
into relationship with himself. He acknowledged no barriers or human
divisions … no category of sinners from who he would isolate
himself.”

Sadly, Wicker’s brand of intolerance cloaked in faith has lately made
inroads in black America. King’s daughter, Bernice, has marched
against
gay rights. Others have peevishly rejected the idea that there are
parallels between the black struggle and the gay one.

Lawson finds the antipathy appalling. “To unite with white Christian
fundamentalism like Pat Robertson is an absolute disgrace. For black
people to pretend that kind of Christian fundamentalism, which
justified slavery and justifies racism, is a colleague in anything is
to be blind to the realities that we’re facing. We who have suffered
and do suffer should be the most sensitive to the suffering of others.
We don’t want this undeserved suffering put on us, and we should
therefore, clearly, not participate in putting such suffering on
others. We ought to know better.”

Lawson knows his brand of Christianity is not the kind that nowadays
dominates political discourse. Does it trouble him to be out of step?

“No. A part of the religion of Jesus is to be on the right side of
history and the right side of God, especially when others are on the
wrong side.” Those who preach intolerance “are the ones out of
step.
You have to be patient and they’ll catch up. Many of the black
pastors
were outraged when King, in ’67, declared against the Vietnam War.
Well, now, great numbers of the clergy are aware that war is a
violation of the gospel of Jesus, and they are opposed to the Iraq war.
They caught up.”

Some did, at least. Ours is still an era wherein war, hatred and
intolerance often wear a clerical collar. As Lawson puts it, “Much of
Christianity in the United States has been more influenced by violence
and sexism and racism and greed than by the teachings of Jesus.”

If that seems a radical thing to say, well, Lawson has no apologies.

“I am a follower of Jesus,” he explains. “That’s what I’ve
called myself
for decades. And that is a radical faith that refuses to define any
human being or group of human beings as being outside God’s grace.”

James Lawson is out of step with modern Christianity.

Thank God someone is.”

I fell asleep with CNN on last night and woke up to this screaming maniac saying really outrageous things. In my sleep fog, I thought “Wtf?”

When I could focus on the tv, I saw it was Wright.

Jesus WEPT!

Yeah, that’s who I want as my prez. Someone who’s been DEVOTED to this nut case for 20 years.

America. You just cant make this stuff up….

“Rev Wright is getting exactly what he wants. Tons of coverage and publicity.”

And dont forget money. In the end, it’s ALWAYS about money. I bet the faithful are emptying their pockets right now.

I bet the Rev. even takes credit cards!

And… how you can say this is no reflection of obama is beyond me. It’s not like he and wright were just casually introduced. He FOLLOWED wright for over 20 years.

Payback could be hell.

Linda, with all due respect, if you liked Mississippi Burning, you are gonna LOVE the new movie about Harvey Milk. Google him or go to Wiki.

And… guess what… it happened LESS than forty years ago. Thirty years to be exact.

I wonder if it will elicit the same response in the liberals here. Injustice is injustice.

And murder is murder.

KFG
I agree that “civil rights” belong to everyone, as far as due process and protection from criminals, is concerned.

However, the “gay community” is as guilty of “mob rule” and prone to a “lynch mentality” just as much as the rest of us human beings.

I fault Obama and Wright for not speaking against the hatred of Farrakhan. I fault most black leaders for not speaking against the gang culture.

I also fault the gay community for what has happened to Steven Nary. Nary is the victim of mob rule, in the gay community:

http://www.cashill.com/california/Nary2of5.htm

Good morning Hank,

Funny how there are always many ways of looking at every situation.

I spoke on the phone this am with a dear friend who recently moved back to Wichita. She was born in England, met her husband of 48 years when he was serving the U.S. Air Force in her country all those years ago. She married him and moved to America (became a citizen). He was career AF so they moved A LOT, finally settling in Wichita for about 20 years after his retirement from the service. They continued living and working in Wichita until retirement from working when they moved to his childhood home in Alabama about six years ago. This woman lived in many countries and many states of our country. She has MUCH to say about how far behind the South is — far behind even Kansas — in terms of racial and gender equality. Although she states IF one is born in the South they are more readily accepted than the outsiders which is anyone who wasn’t. We spoke about that movie I watched last night for the first time. She assured me many of the activities the movie depicts are STILL happening in Alabama.

So maybe you’re right that Mississippi has changed. Or maybe you choose to see things one way — your way.

I read. I recognize facts. And, I recognize an attitude that is patronizing. I even know there are many ways of looking at things and even many correct ways because everything isn’t black and white or based only on one narrow viewpoint. I don’t have a need to argue for the sake of arguing. You can be as right as you want to be.

“However, the “gay community” is as guilty of “mob rule” and prone to a “lynch mentality” just as much as the rest of us human beings.”

geez paulie, got any proof or is that your opinion?

Wanna tell me when the last time was a “gay mob” murdered a straight person?

Then tell that to the families of Paul Brussard, Matthew Shepard, Gwen Arujo, etc.

Jesus WEPT paulie! Do you really believe the crap you post?

I fear that you do.

There ya go America. The face of christianity.

Heh Hernando. Your costume is slipping. You think we dont know who you are? NO ONE drinks the obama koolaide like you.

Big eye roll.

At least I post under my own nic.

““She assured me many of the activities the movie depicts are STILL happening in Alabama.”

I watched Lord of the Rings. The Shire hasn’t changed a wee bit.

Did you all miss the news item over the weekend that Obama is ahead with Electoral College votes. It is, however, still a tight race. If I can find the article, I’ll post the link.

I think what obama supporters dont see, or refuse to see, is that the voters are learning about their candidate. His real Achilles Heel?

Being the same political riff raff as everyone else.

Oh, his words are soaring, and his promises are big. He’s good at maintaining the image. But…

His actions dont match his words. He denounces the rev wright, then attends his church for twenty years.

Actions vs words.

He denounces mcclurkin, but then STILL invites him to headline a fundraiser and preach for thirty minutes.

Actions vs words.

He denounces corruption then lets Tony Rezko help him buy his house.

Actions vs. words.

Yep. His real weakness? He’s fooled some of the people some of the time that his words are real and his actions are not.

WTF?

He’s a slimy politician who uses surrogates to attack. Just like every other politician. If he thinks that keeps his hands clean, if he thinks the majority of voters will not look at his actions while listening to his words…

I’ve got some farmland I’d like to sell his campaign.

Messiah creds indeed. He’s got feet of clay. And you know what they say. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

And we havent even TALKED about whether or not he can govern if he is elected.

KFG
The gay rights activists demanded the scalp of this man, Steven Nary, and he seems very innocent to me:

http://www.cashill.com/california/Nary2of5.htm

Nary was a direct result of the previous cases that you listed. The gay community wanted their “pound of flesh” and they took it out of Nary.

Found several. And I misspoke. DEMS leading, not necessarily Obama.

http://www.365gay.com/Newscon08/04/042808map.htm

And if you’re afraid to click on the link to a gay site, here’s another. They all say the same.

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-04-27-0224.html

“And if you’re afraid to click on the link to a gay site”

Does it rub off?

OMG, yes, please DO click on paulie’s link. It is JUST what you would expect from him.

So… the guy is convicted in the judicial system, but he’s still innocent? Just like scooter libby?

hehehehheheheheheheheheheheh….

And here’s a clue. The article says NOTHING about gays actually killing anyone or even harming anyone. Calling for his scalp? OOOOOH. Boogity boogity booogity! If chanting were illegal, the phelps and terry, joe and fred would have been in jail long ago.

So.. gays never killed anyone, but homophobes have.

Nice job paulie. I’ll call next time I need support. You provide the very best kind of support.

Truth in advertising.

LOL! What a canard! Exactly what office is Mr. Obama’s former pastor running for??

AmWay,

The homophobes here are sooooo transparent. If the shoe fits, and all that.

“Birds of a feather flock together”

And Republicans.

You obama supporters, like David, just keep saying canard and whistling past the graveyard. No big deal, move along here, nothing to see.

You think that’s a winning strategy for November? You think the wright story has no legs, no one cares but dumbass republicans?

Ok. Just keep whistling brother. I wouldnt bother to actually LISTEN to the public or anything…

KFG
IF you had READ my link, you would know that it is the first part of a 3 part story.
See the bottom of the link I gave you!

http://www.cashill.com/california/Nary2of5.htm

Oh yeah, and NO obama supporters have ever trashed Hillary. Or her surrogates.

Nope. He is JUST. LIKE. THE. REST. OF. THEM.

And that’s the dirty little secret that will sink you in November.

hey, at least I didnt switch parties just to rat bugger the primary.

Crossover voters my hind foot!

Paulie, not only did I read your drivel, I’m encouraging others to do so as well.

I want them to get a REAL GOOD LOOK at you and yours.

No one ever said it was a permanent cross-over….

But what else is a guy to do? I have to vote against McClame else the republicans will never realize the error of their ways.

And Hillary is more of the same on the other extreme. Old school. Plus all the baggage which comes with a perpetual liar. Nausea.

Even if we don’t know what Obama means by it,
but he really will bring change.

KFG
Since you are having trouble with my links, here is a copy and paste. My apologies, it is a 5 part story not a 3 part story, so I found the “jury tampering” part in this piece:

“In San Francisco, on May 4, members of the United Satanic Apache Front seized Steven Johnson Leyba, bound him, stripped him, carved a Satanic pentagram on his back, and had a woman member of the group urinate on his open wound.

In Chicago, after the Miglin killing, authorities stepped up their pursuit of Cunanan. In San Francisco, after the Leyba outrage, authorities stood and applauded.

You see, Leyba and his performance troupe were the featured attraction at a birthday bash for gay activist Jack Davis. In attendance were the city’s political elite, including Mayor Willie Brown, Sheriff Mike Hennessy, City Attorney Louise Renne, several members of the Board of Supervisors including its president, and District Attorney Terrence Hallinan, who was overseeing the impending trial of Steven Nary.

Although further descent may not seem possible, the evening headed downhill after the ritual bleeding of the “Reverend” Leyba, an ordained minister in Anton LaVey’s Church of Satan.

None of the major newspapers would print what happened next: a woman, dressed as Pocahontas and using a Jack Daniels bottle as a dildo, actually sodomized Leyba with the bottle in full view of the audience.

Leyba, who claims to be ¼ Apache, more than enough for victim status in San Francisco, described the ritual in question as “a literal metaphor for how alcohol was forced on my people.”

The San Francisco Chronicle reporters that covered the event did so under the assumption that they were supposed to be amused. They did not know any better. The paper’s initial reporting reflects as much.

“San Francisco 49ers campaign manager Jack Davis’ birthday parties are legendary for their abandon,” read the lighthearted lead, “but none compared to the wild, Caligulan scene that went down at his politically packed, 50th-year bash Saturday night.”

Although the reporters conceded that some people were “disgusted” by the “bizarre” proceedings, they gave the last word to Davis himself. ”Most people said it was the best party they’d ever been to,” he enthused. “And it wasn’t anything compared to the after-party at my house.”

Cunanan was shedding no glory on his state or his orientation either. As the world knows, he made his way south and east, killing an inconvenient security guard in New Jersey en route. Once in Miami, he shot and killed the famed designer Gianni Versace before eventually turning the gun on himself.

In San Francisco meanwhile, the Nary case slugged through the preliminaries with precious little attention being paid beyond the city. Lacking an external counterbalance, the postmodern local powers, led by the District Attorney, could define the “narrative” as they saw fit.

In their rewriting, Nary was a brutal, calculating killer, not unlike Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson, the two “homophobic” desperados that killed helpless gay Wyoming University student, Matthew Shepard, in a fit of “gay panic.”

Although Hollywood would turn out at least three TV movies about the “crucifixion” of Shepard, two of which premiered in the week before Easter 2002, the homophobic story line did not match the Wyoming reality.

As the truth began to eke out of Laramie, that line grew more and more suspect. Best evidence now suggests that McKinney, the actual killer, had previously expressed no homophobic sentiments. One good reason why is that he was an active bisexual himself. Apparently, he and Shepard, who had a known drug problem, had done meth together a number of times.

On the night in question, McKinney went on a meth-fueled rampage. He pistol-whipped the vulnerable Shepard for drug money, drove into town to rob Shepard’s apartment, and then pistol whipped a stranger who got in his way, fracturing his skull in the process.

Matthew Shepard died just four weeks before the 1998 mid-term elections. For the next four weeks, much to their own surprise, the killers were presented to America as poster children for the religious right and one more reason not to vote Republican.

Of course, McKinney and Henderson were not products of Christian culture, but of its antithesis: a crude, soulless, fatherless, sexually libertine, drug-addled, pop culture. Those who controlled the narrative, however, could shape it as they saw fit.

When the defense tried to redefine the narrative in the Nary case, the local powers turned the very attempt against them. As one gay legal source observed, “Community activists expressed outrage at the defense tactics of trying to depict Pifarre, a well-known community activist and journalist, as a dangerous sexual predator.”

District Attorney Terrence Hallinan, feeling the heat from both the gay and the Hispanic communities, threw Nary into the fire. On a more personal level, the newly-elected DA had enjoyed Pifarre’s public support in his campaign for District Attorney.

In late century San Francisco, as Nary was about to learn, the truth mattered no more than it had in early century Selma or Scottsboro.

Pifarre was, in fact, a sexual predator with a history of violence. He had secured his permanent residency through a fraudulent marriage. He was shortchanging the city of San Jose on his working hours and on the health benefits for his “wife.” He used illegal drugs regularly, including cocaine. He was drunk often and was a mean drunk.

Pifarre had been arrested at least once for indecent exposure and on another occasion for battery stemming from a sexual molestation. He had a history of seducing young men, almost assuredly under false pretenses, and did not stop to ask for “proof.” He likely drugged them, and he had no compunction about raping them. And in San Francisco, he had juice enough to get away with it all.

Still, if Nary had been a female sailor under identical circumstances, this case would never have come to trial, not even in San Francisco. The feminist plate would have pushed harder in that sailor’s behalf than the Hispanic plate would have pushed against it.

Indeed, there was more public sympathy for a woman whose breasts had been fondled by an Assistant D.A. at the Jack Davis party than there was for Nary.

The prosecutors had hoped to stage the trial during Gay Pride week in June but settled for March 1999, conveniently just a week before the start of Russell Henderson’s trial in Laramie.

For Nary, the time was as inauspicious as the place. On one occasion during the trial, members of the audience stood up and faced the jury wearing large bright orange lapel tags saying “Recuerda [Remember] Juan,” “Stop Homophobia,” and “Stop Immigrant Bashing.”

Judge Kevin Ryan, who would later gain notoriety after being fired as U.S. Attorney, ignored the demonstration. Later, these demonstrators lobbied the jurors as they went to and came from lunch.

John Farrell, the prosecutor, hammered the “homophobia” theme throughout the trial. Incredibly, he attacked Nary for his honest admission of feeling “disgusted” after coerced oral sex. In his summation, Farrell argued that the only kind of person “who feels bad about what they did”—meaning oral sex with another man–is the kind of “person who is homophobic.”

“Where is that rage coming from?” he asked the jury of Nary’s self-defense. “Where is the motive for all that: That word ‘faggot’ written on the board.” Farrell insinuated that the military’s presumed anti-gay ethos had reinforced Nary’s native bigotry, although there was no evidence at all that Nary ever used the word “faggot” or anything like it.

Farrell also placed a flourishing gay club scene just blocks from Nary’s Cathedral City High–when it was, in fact, miles away–to suggest that Nary may well have gay-bashed before.

Nary never had a chance. After a generation of propaganda, locals had convinced themselves that only a bigoted young man would find sex with another man something other than perfectly natural. By coming back with a guilty verdict, each juror could claim his or her rightful place in this town’s zone of decency–sensitive to immigrants and gays and hostile to a homophobic military. The temptation proved irresistible.

Without intending to, the daily journal Gay Today showed just how the tectonic deck was stacked against “hustler” and “crazed assailant” Steven Nary and his “racist” handful of supporters.

“The 2nd-degree jury verdict for Nary is really a heartening victory,” read its editorial, “especially during this week when the bogus concept of ‘Gay Panic’ is being tested again in Laramie, at the most visible anti-gay murder trial since Dan White got away with the murder of Harvey Milk by admitting to being a Twinkie junkie.”

Under the California Penal Code, an individual convicted of second degree murder “subjectively knows, based on everything, that the conduct that he or she is about to engage in has a high probability of death to another human being.” As I write, Steven Nary is serving the 12 th year of a 16-year-to-life sentence.”

http://www.cashill.com/california/Nary5of5.htm

That is truly hysterical…sad that some guy got pissed and shot a gay person, and even sadder that he got off so easily. We know how that goes though.

You know, Europeans don’t really have this problem so much. They all live pretty much in peace and harmony with the gays- why can’t the USA pull their heads out of their asses and be like that too?

Imagine all the people…living life in peace…

But hey, I guess it isnt any worse than obama’s association with mcclurkin.

You know mcclurkin? The one who says “gays are killing our children”?

Looks like paulie and mcclurkin and obama are not far apart.

Except obama denys it.

You’ll find this in Paul’s cut and paste.

“Leyba, who claims to be ¼ Apache, more than enough for victim status in San Francisco”

Trifects. Gay, satanic, AND from San Franciso.

I think that’s all you need to read to get the gist of this post!

KFG
I do no such thing.
I do not defend murder, in any case.

However, “you and yours” do not sit on some pedestal. Mob rule is rampant in the gay leadership.

Your “gay activists” are as guilty of mob rule, hatred and denial of true justice, as the people you attack.

The killers of Matthew Shepard were not church going members of the “religious right” —

Those brutal killers were drug addicts looking for drug money!

Paulie, you need to observe the first rule of holes here.

“In their rewriting, Nary was a brutal, calculating killer, not unlike Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson, the two “homophobic” desperados that killed helpless gay Wyoming University student, Matthew Shepard, in a fit of “gay panic.”

Although Hollywood would turn out at least three TV movies about the “crucifixion” of Shepard, two of which premiered in the week before Easter 2002, the homophobic story line did not match the Wyoming reality.

As the truth began to eke out of Laramie, that line grew more and more suspect. Best evidence now suggests that McKinney, the actual killer, had previously expressed no homophobic sentiments.”

Need me to paste more?

I’m not surprised kfg.

The despicable paulie has lost the capacity to surprise me.

He was, after all, recruited to assault gay people in parks. He’s rather proud of that.

Something about his “fighting ability”.

Top 10 Ways To Support Gay Rights

http://gaylife.about.com/od/gayrights/tp/gayrights.htm

Sounds like that piece was written by our very own freak Herb. Yeah it’s that far out there.

Oh darn it, I thought this was the Gay topic! Gay must be listed 50 times on this topic, but it’s about O-B-A-M-A !!!

Sorry folks.

Hee hee hee. I guess you also didnt see my comments yesterday about the KDP and their little dogs the lgbt party caucus?

You are so wrong about me not hammering anyone who’s gay. I’m an equal opportunity offender, remember?

In fact, I get hammered because I “eat those who support me” according to some libs here.

Nice try paul. But we are amused, and we do encourage you to try again!

Obama will not “win” the Presidency.

McCain might lose it, but Obama will only be President if McCain screws up worse than Obama already has.

This is truly a “lessor of evils” year.

I really hope Obama stays in the race.

He’s an even bigger target for the NRA then Hillary. And Hillary is about as wide as a friggin Barn!

What I see from Hillary is an attitude that Democrats need to push back on the Republicans. She seems to say that for 8 years, the GOP has bullied us and now we need to bully them back. She seems to want to move the pendulum back to the 90s. This is fine. But what I hear from Obama is more of a message to start getting rid of the pendulum alltogether. A message that I like. Will he be successful if he IS elected? I don’t know. Has the time for that message come? Again, I don’t know. To Hillary “Bipartisan” is a buzz word or a ticket that she needs to punch. McCain was appealing until the GOP base reeled him in. When Barack Obama spoke of the “politics of validation” between gays and the religious right, he sounded more like the adult in the room trying to keep 2 children from fighting.

Good thing there are not too many Liberal Angels.

Obama lets other people do his dirty work for him.

Obama is not any more “clean” than any other politician.

He speaks well.

He tries not to get his hands dirty.

Nothing will change.

In fact, based on Obama’s friends, past and present, it would appear that a “President Obama” would bring about the most divisive political environment since the civil war.

“To you, ‘truth’ means anything that helps your political agenda.”

Projection is such a beautiful defense mechanism, is it not?

Or, pot meet kettle!

well BTH, as I said. I don’t know if the gridlock will stop or not. I just don’t like a candidate saying “I won’t talk about bipartisanship anymore because it’s an impossible dream” At least TRY to stop the 50% +1 philosophy of absolute power that Dubya had.

Polls, polls, more meaningless polls…

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080428/ap_on_el_pr/presidential_race_ap_poll

Hillary now leads mcsame and obama is virtually tied with him.

My how things can change. I guess that would be the danger in picking a nominee too quickly?

Not too long ago, the obama folks were saying Hillary should pack it in before the primaries were over. He was leading the popular vote polls.

I guess now that Hillary is leading again, we can expect him to do the right thing for the party and drop out? The obama camp’s own logic would support that, no?

Tongue in cheek. I dont want him to drop out. But…

Who said what goes around comes around?

I think obama and his supporters are learning that the hard way.

Ayers wishes that he had bombed more buildings.

Wright thinks America needs to “apologize” for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and for slavery.

Obama, himself, wants to blame gun manufacturers and dealers for the rampant bloodshed in Chicago.

Obama never holds Black leaders accountable for their radical statements.

Obama is a radical leftist.

Obama has shown no ability to compromise, on anything.

Rev. WrightWright Lashes OutThe United States “ignores” black churches and their traditions, the Rev. Wright said in an impassioned speech.
April 28, 2008 —

WASHINGTON – In a defiant appearance before the Washington media, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright said today that criticism surrounding his fiery sermons is an attack on the “black church”. (AP)

WTF is Wright doing? Trying to personally sabotage
Obama’s campaign?????????????????

I totally disagree with the statements Rev Wright has made over the years. I have now read two of his ENTIRE speeches – and I STILL disagree with his comments, and find them inflaming and UnAmerican.

Now I totally disagree with him that my original disagreement means I am ATTACKING THE BLACK CHURCH.

WTF is this guy trying to do?

That would be spelled “surname” Dog not “sir name.”

Just saying…

Franklin not likely, Mc Cain continuing the Bush doctrine means that in four year we will be further into a wider war. And it being a classical real war, the country would never unseat a real war President. Mc Cain would die in office.

” If obama is the nominee, expect the media to cover wright wall to wall.”

And if it is President Obama, guess who will be leading the Christmas services for the white house?

All right now. Baby it’s all right now.

The prayer at the official lighting of the national Christmas Tree?

All right now. Baby it’s all right now.

Hey, Wright did say, today, that he would ACCEPT the VP slot.
That was really helpful to Obama, wasn’t it?

I do not think Wright, and other race hustlers, really want Obama to win.

How does the race hustling industry benefit with a Black man as President?

Thanks Regular sometime my thoughts get ahead of my spelling. And a old problem, I do not catch things like that until after it is posted. LOL oddly there are times for some reason I put an “a” where I meant “I”. So it comes out ” a once thought of being a Cowboy”.

LLV
What legislation has Obama spossored, in Illinois or in Washington D.C.?
That would indicate the willingness to compromise and work with people.
Obama has shown no such ability.

Obama would have LEFT Wright’s chuch, if he was the type of person that would hold people accountable for their outrageous statements.

Franklin over the last four years I more then anyone else have wished that my predictions were not so based on the realities. Will Mc Cain win? That is hard to say, a year ago I did not think there was a snowball’s chance. But today it does not seem as impossible as it once was. For the good of the country I hope that if he does. You get to rub my nose in that prediction!

Franklin:
Thus far, he has very little experience. You have a valid point. But his only having worked on the ethics bill and the transparancy bill doesn’t show his inability to work together. It only shows his lack of experience. Few will argue against his lack of experience. I won’t. But to say that he has shown no such ability to compromiseis wrong. Many republican senators have expressed how impressed they were with his ability to compromise. Tom Coburn being one of them. Here is the link to the transparancy bill.
http://www.examiner.com/a-322128~Sens__Tom_Coburn_and_Barack_Obama__Signs_of_hope_in_passage_of_transparency_bill.html.
(notice how I provided evidence, do you want to start trying that?)
You can’t state with any authority what Obama would or would not have done about Jeremiah Wright any more than I can speak of John Hagee.

…and speaking of vp slots…

I sure hope obama DOES pick sebelius as his running mate.

VP’s dont have much of a good track record in ever being president. I think that makes Dennis Moore wrong about governor “leadership” being the first woman preznit if she is obama’s vp.

If she is obama’s vp and he wins, I think that will effectively end her career, as noted above. And, it’s gonna be a bloody mess in Washington for the next four years. I think whoever wins in November will be a one termer. That will further taint sebelius in the future.

If Hillary wins, payback will be a biotch for our governator. That’s not gonna help sebelius here or nationally.

If Hillary loses, the guv could indeed make a comeback and take advantage of name recognition and the “I told you so” factor. She’ll run in 12 if that’s the case, and then Dennis could be right. Her opposition to Holcomb will cover up her other bad credentials regarding water and the environment.

If barack picks kathleen and they lose?

Toast. She’ll be tainted forever, just like John Edwards.

yep. Run kathy run! That looks like the best way to get her out of Kansas.

I think Obama should pick Dolly Parton to be Vice President. Would be much more fun to listen to and look at.

I would love to hear her say to a terrorist group, “Do that again and I’ll turn you from a rooster to a hen in one shot!”

:)

My call was to Obama supporters “American way”.

I know you cons have very little in the way of anything pleasant to talk about.

It has to be rough dreading every day the next mistake McCain will make since you are stuck with him.

It has to be even MORE depressing to have to hope he picks a VP you can live with and then dies.

But your input in the Democratic nomination process is neither wanted nor welcome.

“Obama supporters? Call on your candidate to accept this invitation.”

Why should he? He is the leader apparent. Hillary on the other hand is behind. She has everything to gain and nothing to loose. Especially before NC..

BJ
TOUGH!
We Republicans are helping to pick YOUR nominee!

Get Smart!

Chaos is in control!

“the Democratic nomination process”

You mean there is a process? It’s really looking pretty chaotic to me.

For the good of the party, Hillary should lick her wounds and bow out gracefully now.

If she does, as I’ve stated many times before – some of us crossovers WILL vote Obama. McClame holds no interest for me.

And JR, I will remember your words of wisdom next thread about republicans. By your very words, I should not see any Bluejay droppings on those threads.

Paulie

Get bent.

Actually, I call out YOUR candydate too.

A three way debate between Senators Clinton, McCain and Obama!

I’m not an Obama supporter and I don’t speak for them.

But I’m gonna GUESS they don’t want your endorsement there “American way”.

“A three way debate between Senators Clinton, McCain and Obama!”

Gee since you have McCain in there I guess I have your permission to post. I will anyway.

This is a dead horse. But you can continue to beat it.

Here’s the deal: Republicans have picked THEIR candidate. Now Democrats should pick THEIR candidate.

Once that is accomplished, McClame will debate the democratic candidate for president.

It really is a simple procedure Bluejay.

” know a Dem delegate to the Kerry convention, from PA. They HATED the Obama calls.”

It’s not Obama. It’s the computer calling me which I find offensive. Plus I really do not like negative campaigning by candidates. So his calls would be a double whammy in my house.

I hate computer calls too.
If you demand MY time, you better sure as hell give me YOUR time, not some machine on your behalf!

Now there’s an idea Blue Jay. All three debating. And just to make sure it is fair, Jim Lehrer moderates the debate. Not Fox News, not Keith Olberman. A Public news agency.

No moderators? JERRY!!! JERRY!!! JERRY!!!

If Obama dropped out, and if Hillary dropped out, McCain might have a chance!

A three-way debate would be fascinating but, for obvious reasons, McCain would never agree.

I suppose that American Idol worshipers wouldn’t be able to abide such a verbose debate. But I am certain that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama would be able to provide such. The debate seemed to be more gentle than those today. There didn’t seem to be any mention of “dumbsh$%s” or “LOL” either. I’m sorry. I couldn’t resist the Irony.

“Franklin
Posted April 28, 2008 at 1:37 pm | Permalink
Rush now reports”

Now THAT sure is a reliable source!

Max – for a number of reasons I don’t think many of us would have the attention span for L-D type debates. It’s like we all have ADD.

Better go back to the “Clinton should drop out” line, latest poll shows Hillary beating Mc
Same by 9 points!

Yeah I sorta figured it would be you WS.

You or Capn.

With the sour grapes and accusations I mean? I know you all are having one shitty day among a string of bad ones. But this vast conspiracy you just named? A bit of a stretch don’t you think?

And even if ya don’t think.

Hey guy? Right now Obama’s biggest enemy in this big bad world is the guy he calls or called “pastor”. If you have to be mad at somebody, you’d be entirely justified being mad at him.

I can make guesses as to what is with the pastor. He could have anything from jealousy, to ego issues. Maybe the fact that the story was going away did not sit well with him since he did not come off well in it. Maybe he really is a racist and is trying to pull off the greatest racial rift of the new century. Maybe it’s as simple as he wants to sell a book and become a speaking star himself.

Or maybe he is just plain, batshit, crazy. And the sob is on a speaking tour so who knows what he says or does next.

How Obama gets rid of him at this point I don’t know. But he is going to HAVE to do something and fast. And blaming everyone but pastor Wright in the meantime does not help him at all.

“Yeah I sorta figured it would be you WS.”

Democratic activist since 1968 – that’s me.

Former anti-choice, right wing Republican – that’s you.

And you think that your opinion of a Democratic candidate for president carries more weight?+

Who gives a damn what you think, J R?

The table has been set for Hillary Clinton – and Democrats in concert with John McCain and the Republicans are responsible.

The established power structure in Washington has decided – they will not allow a new face, a new brand of politics to take the stage.

This is a done deal – despite being behind in delegates and popular vote, Clinton will get the GOP, er, Democratic nomination and she will lose badly to McCain.

Then the Clintons will blame it all on Obama and his supporters.

This is a done deal – you could see it coming but you just could not believe that it would happen.

It has.

Say goodnight, America, it is over for hope and bipartisanship.

“Now can the pity party and get back in the fight.”

Who was crying a month ago that Obama was hurting poor Hillary and he should just get out of the way and she would let him have the presidency in 2016?

That would be you, J R.

It’s a good point, JR.

I have no data to back it up, but my gut tells me the reason for Hillary’s surge has less to do with Wright or Harvard or his being black, and more to do with the fact the many Democrats are seeing Hillary when she’s in full fightin’ mode.

You get the feeling watching her that anybody want a piece of her, she’d take over in that alley over there and let’s go. Bring out the knives? Cool, she’d be down with that (figuratively) (should go without saying, but hey).

You see a lot of that kind of fight in Obama, too, but you see more of it in Hillary right now.

Americans love to see their leaders relish a fight.

Damn pedant I’m trying. But among the hardest fighters for Obama?

One is switching his nics and the other wants to blame all the wrong people.

How much crap have me and farmgrrl and others had to take from you and Capn WS?

And WE and Senator Clinton did not make Obama’s pastor say this stuff.

So I guess this means that if the roles were reversed and it had been Obama a close second all this time?

Why I guess he would have packed it in because his supporters can’t stick a fight?

I wasn’t even all that FOR Clinton. How fair is all of this to John Edwards?

Now Obama made a pretty speech 4 years ago and people put ideas in his head. Against a lot of odds, he has come this far. And whether you would admit it or not, he has been afforded much.

But we are picking the President for maybe the most important election in our remembered history. Now either he has the stuff or he never did. And alot of what he has comes from his supporters. He thrives on attention.

Well that has a price. Even as late as it came, it is here.

Are ya game or not?

Who is John Sidney McCain the Third’s pastor?

Who is Hillary Clinton’s pastor?

Who is George WMD Bush’s pastor?

Ah! But somehow Barack Obama’s pastor is an issue?!

Meanwhile, April saw more Americans killed in Iraq than any month since September, 2007.

“The surge is working.” And will keep on “working” for a hundred years.

If Stephen Douglas had worn a flag lapel pin he’d be on the five-dollar bill today.

Priorities, people.

“Yes, I have said that being the senior, Clinton should get the number 1 spot and Obama the second spot.”

Based on what, four more years in the Senate? What else has Hillary done with her “35 years of experience?”

Why would Obama even remotely CONSIDER taking a VP slot to Clinton give the abuse heaped on him by Hillary and Bill?

“One is switching his nics and the other wants to blame all the wrong people.”

The only one that has switched nics is you, J R.

“How much crap have me and farmgrrl and others had to take from you and Capn WS?”

The Clintons supported DOMA and “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” as part of their platform, yet Obama is the anti-gay, homophobe?

Yeah, right. The Clintons have done more to set back gay rights than any Democrats in memory.

Crap from Obama supporters?

Do you mean like Obama should drop out and let Clinton have the nomination because she DESERVES it?

This in the middle of an Obama eleven primary win streak?

Yeah, right.

You could not get me to vote for McCain if you had a gun to my head.

You could not get me to vote for the Green Party if you had a gun to my head, either.

Wow.

Clark, I’m going to give you a pass on some of your most offensive and bitter comments here. Partly because I like you, and have always said so, and partly because I understand you are hurting. It hurts to watch someone you respect and support get hammered.

I know. I feel that way every time someone hammers Hillary unjustly.

Notice, I said unjustly. She certainly has issues that invite hammering. I’ve also said that all along. I have not given her a pass on anything. I think she’s the best nominee to defeat mcsame. I think she will be the most competent to govern after November. I think the country needs her, and needs her now.

And therein would lie the difference between some Hillary supporters and some obama supporters. We recognize she is flawed. We already knew going into this that she was not to be idolized and that she had clay feet.

When folks lifted obama to saint hood, and refused to acknowledge even the slightest flaw in him without screaming race, they were bound to be disappointed at some point. I think you are a good example, Clark, of why I say “the bigger they are, the harder they fall”.

The higher the pedestal you put your candidate on, the farther they have to fall.

Some of us have pointed out obama’s flaws before, and why we think he is NOT the best nominee. We’ve been laughed at, cussed at, whined at, and had some vicious stuff said to us. By fellow liberals.

And now, when you cant ignore his flaws anymore, WE are to blame? Hillary is to blame? Anyone is to blame besides st. obama himself? And it can only be because of race?

In case you havent noticed here, I call out all churches, not just black churches. I generally call out all nut case ministers, black and white. But yeah, I am most disappointed in the damage done to my community by the black churches.

I think you’ll understand when I say that it is damned disappointing to be let down by a group you feel kinship with and think THEY of all groups should understand oppression and support you in throwing off chains.

I’m thinking that is how you must feel about fellow liberals and dems who just dont undertand how important you believe it is to elect obama. You dont understand why I think it is so important to elect Hillary.

And just like I’m not giving obama a pass because he’s black, I’m not attacking him because he’s black. The mclurkin incident is not trivial to me. It is an important issue to me because it speaks to my concerns about the candidate and his character and his priorities.

And whining about DOMA and DADT doesnt sway me a bit. To say it was part of their “platform” is nonsense. They were the best compromises that could be worked out at the time. Hell, if the black AND white churches and black AND white preachers hadnt been hell bent to amend the constitution, DOMA would not have happened. And DADT is a disaster for everyone, but it was better than what existed before. Marginally, but still better. I dont fault either of the Clintons for those two blunders.

I’m sure it also hurts to find out that Mr. Hope and Change is not the bullet proof candidate you thought he was. When your reason for supporting someone is that he is BETTER than everyone else and you swallow the hope and change message whole, and then find out obama is human with feet of clay, it hurts.

And it must doubly hurt that obama’s real weakness is being exposed now. And that is… he is truely just like all the rest of the politicians in Washington. I know you thought he was better, but he’s not. And I agree, this country is not in a position to bet all the chips on bipartisanship. Some of us have been saying that, and gee… it’s true. Does that make me happy? No, but it is reality. Welcome to the real world.

So… Clark, I’m gonna give you a pass here. Now, you can tell me to kiss yer ass and phuck off or whatever. You can hate me or disrespect me or whatever. You can call Hillary anything you want.

But you still cant stop me from respecting you and liking you.

“2) McCain would not ban guns, Clinton would.”

That max, always good for comic relief.

Oh, the pastor “issue”. That’s the difference.

Anything else?