Most people’s initial response to the bizarre case of the woman in Ness City who was stuck to her toilet seat is to make a joke. Understandable.
But the details emerging point more to tragedy. Both the woman and man involved appear to have some kind of mental disabilities, according to Ness County Sheriff Bryan Whipple.
It’s unclear how long the woman actually sat on the toilet — it might have been a month rather than two years — but the physical damage to her legs could require her to use a wheelchair.
The case raises troubling questions about the network of help available to people with mental illness, phobias or disabilities, especially in rural areas. It’s easy for them to become isolated and forgotten until their health problems scream out for attention.
How is it possible that the woman sat there for so long without getting help? We should be asking ourselves that question.
150 Comments
Well…
Let’s see…
I think…
Maybe we should…
How about if we…
OR
There were two people living in the same house that were insane and this is an isolated incident.
Regular,
Your comment makes too much sense for it to considered by the Eagle Editorial staff.
It sounds like she didn’t want help. Some will say she may not have been capable of making that determination for herself, but was she putting anyone else in any danger? Did her life lived her way have an affect on anyone else? Whose standards will be used to determine what is appropriate for another person’s life?
Will this same person be allowed to decide I sit in this chair in front of this computer too long and too often? It’s true, I do! Will that person save me from myself?
Typical liberal response: Let’s regulate time spent on toilets!
1. Study: Average time person sits on toilet.
2. Pass legislation to force toilet makers to put sensors in toilet seats.
3. Toilet seat sensors would set off an alarm to provide light and sound features to warn humans when they have been on the toilet too long. This would also alert others in the home to check on their insane, elderly, or alzheimer member.
4. Require electronic shocking to alert the human that they have been on the toilet too long.
5. Home inspection of the regulated toilet lids.
6. Landlords would be the first forced to install the devices in all rental property. Followed by hotels, motels, and all public toilets.
This would fit nicely with our regulated 1.5 gallon flush toilets and reduced water pressure shower heads, and GFCI outlets in bathroooms.
Let us help humans from cradle to grave.
God knows they are not smart enough to live without the government.
The real problem here is the lack of any details regarding this situation. Her family wants to blame her partner, but it doesn’t look like he’s altogether competent either.
Assuming that agoraphobia is the reason she stayed in that bathroom (and that’s quite possible), what was her partner to do? What mental health facilities are there available for poor people in Ness City? If there is treatment available, do they make house calls? If not, how would he have gotten her there without causing further panic attacks? If all those things could be resolved, would she have agreed to treatment? Most phobias are now successfully treatable, but agoraphobia, as difficult and painful as it may be, is not usually grounds for a civil committment, and without her consent, treatment would not be legal or possible.
Given the sparse information we’ve been given, it sounds to me that her partner probably did the best he could with the limited resources at hand.
It’s a difficult case, and fairly rare in this extreme, and difficult cases usually make bad law. Let’s don’t get too carried away with legal actions, at least until we know a few more facts.
.I’m sure she’ll be the “butt” of lots of jokes…
IN Kansas it is very difficult to get someone committed ( and to the extent she went it would be a logical conclusion that she would need commitment) against their will. The boyfriend in his statement said he try several times to convince her to come out of the bathroom. But she would refuse saying that she was fine and if she came out she might see her family. Which she stated she did not want to do and as has been pointed out. Who has the right to tell a legal, grown adult that she must come out if she does not want to.
Can you imagine the 9-11 call?
“Hello what is the nature of your emergency?”
“Yeah my girl friend refuses to come out of the bathroom!”
Dog, I remember having that same complaint when my daughters were teenagers. Never occurred to me to call 911 for help…
“It sounds like she didn’t want help. Some will say she may not have been capable of making that determination for herself, but was she putting anyone else in any danger?”
She did substantial harm to herself, and as it probably arose from a diminished capacity due to a mental illness, that is sufficient. She should have been receiving treatment just like anyone else with a disease or disorder. The harm she did herself was an untreated symptom of the disease she has.
“Did her life lived her way have an affect on anyone else?”
Does it have to? It probably affected the boyfriend, who himself may have had diminished capacity. If this person was lying on a couch unable to move because of an infected sore, few people would be saying, well, it isn’t affecting anyone else. I know that isn’t your intent Linda, but look at it this way, the choices this woman made were probably not INFORMED choices, but were made on the basis of a biologically based brain disorder. Illnesses and diseases and disorders are illnsses and diseases and disorders, even when the affect the brain. Kansas has an absolutely horrible mental health care system (although in all fairness, so does most of the country).
“Whose standards will be used to determine what is appropriate for another person’s life?”
I think that is not the right question. Yes, people all have very different point of views and personalities and histories that make them think and act the way that they do. But brains are like any other physical organ. Things can go wrong. People can hallucinate or have phobias or can have disordered thinking that, just like a physical illness, affects their ability to function and take care of themselves. A mental disorder that leads someone to sit on a toilet for a month is not a considered life choice, it is manifestation of a disorder just as it would be if someone was physically unable to get off the toilet and needed assistance. This woman needed assistance.
“This woman needed assistance.”
duh!
ya think?
If we overeat, use drugs, abuse alcohol, any number of choices that indicate a malfunctioning brain, should we be forced to accept treatment?
I’m not questioning recognizing mental and emotional illness as illness that requires and would benefit from medical intervention, but when it should be the business of someone else.
Do we force someone with heart disease to see a cardiologist?
People in Ness City most likely knew something was wrong and did nothing. The most usual case in such a community is to sweep something bad under the rug until it festers to the point of stinking up the whole town, and even then they won’t admit their culpability.
It is the same for all so called mental illnesses. You can put a free mental health clinic on every corner and free medications on every corner BUT if the alledged patient does not want to enter the clinic or take the medication, the courts (read ACLU) cannot force someone to do that. This falls completely on the shoulders of the family.
It is the family who must go to court, provide evidence and force the patient into some type of treatment. This only goes so far though. Once the patient has been determined to not be a threat to self or others, they are released. Of course with the caveat that they are on their meds so supposedly all is okay.
And of course there is no one or nothing that forces them to continue to take their meds and we are back to square one.
“Do we force someone with heart disease to see a cardiologist?”
Failure to seek treatment, regular physical examination, living an unhealthy lifestyle to include substance abuse, could result in a loss of benefits under healthcare “reform”.
“I’m not questioning recognizing mental and emotional illness as illness that requires and would benefit from medical intervention, but when it should be the business of someone else.
“Do we force someone with heart disease to see a cardiologist?”
When the failure to pursue or recognize the need to pursue treatment arises from the disease process itself, yes. That’s why we have a processes like legal guardianship.
Mental illness is not recognized or treated like other diseases because of stigma and also for economic reasons. Why should a person who has a life threatening, disabling condition not receive treatment? More to the point, when the failure to seek treatment is a manifestation of the condition requiring treatment, why should we ignore that?
Augh. Mental illness is a big problem in the communities, this isn’t a free will thing. They are ill and deserve help and yes, that means soemtimes even if they do not want it.
The family here blames the boyfriend? Bull, I blame the family AND the boyfriend. Where were they? I think it is sad that a woman was missing for that long from society, and nobody paid any attention.
Mentally ill people are NOT disposable, they can have a healthy valuable life that contributes to society. We need to give them the tools to make that happen. We need more group homes for the mentally ill, easier laws to allow commitment.
Everytime we have a mental illness tragedy, we talk about this, and yet, everytime nothing happens. LAWMAKERS do something about this.
“Kansas has an absolutely horrible mental health care system (although in all fairness, so does most of the country).”
So, what do you say are the reasons to this horrible health care system?
Is it political?
Is it a lost practice of the arts?
Is it social intolerance?
I will answer the question myself and say maybe it is all three of the above.
All of it is on the bases of economics, this could be one area of medicine that a national health care insurance (Social Medicine) should be mandated.
After all look how it has been handle in past by the various states and the private sector.
A national taxation that may be needed to be forced upon the people to remedy the apathy of a social class and greatly misunderstood members of society.
Health care reform is needed and hopefully coming soon. There will be provisions for those whose mental capacity is diminished. Just as in attempts to scare me with all things of war / terrorism, I am completely and absolutely finished with the Republican tactics of fear! I am not afraid of health care reform – in fact, I welcome it!
Back to the topic at hand.
If I were smart enough (I’m not!) I would understand when stepping in should or shouldn’t happen.
If someone whose brain is malfunctioning is “rescued” but returns to the previous harmful behaviors do we rescue them again? How many times? How often?
I read an interesting article in Newsweek recently titled, “What Addicts Need.” The article explained some research that is ongoing, including some vaccines that are being developed to address the underlying biochemistry of the disease of addiction. With regard to these vaccines the article stated: “The addict’s brain is malfunctioning, as surely as the pancreas in someone with diabetes. In both cases, ‘lifestyles choices’ may be contributing factors, but no one regards that as a reason to withhold insulin from a diabetic.”
Yet another quote from this excellent article: “Geneticists have found the first few (of what is likely to be many) gene variants that predispose people to addiction, helping explain why only about one person in 10 who tries and addictive drug actually becomes hooked on it.”
But, if scientists come up with the treatments, and vaccines (and I sincerely hope they do!) will we be back to the question Gene Raston posted above about this person continuing to take their meds?
If you’re interested in this article I’ve quoted, and it has great info about malfunctions of the brain that probably affect more than addiction diseases, here is the link:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/114716
MR Whipple saved the day!
If only Charmin TP would have been in the house…
Amway’s solution should work. OR, we could simply post warning signs on every toliet: “If you are not done after 1 hour, break off a chunk and get out of there!”
The writer asks a salient question here: How DID this woman’s condition and debility escape attention for so long?
Mental illness, like major depression, requires treatment – the sooner the better.
Until recently, when her increasing semi-senility renders her memory suspect, my mother asked herself how she “missed” my nervous breakdown in March 1978. I’m too soft-hearted (outwardly, at least) and too respectful of her motherhood to tell her the ugly truth: I DID try to bring my condition to her attention, and she was contemptuous. She did nothing to seek help – and I was only nineteen at the time.
What are the consequences of this? I’m learning more and more with increasing age (and time) – and the truth isn’t pretty. Ignoring illnesses such as these carries a huge cost.
It doesn’t have to be tantamount to complete destruction: treatments are being advanced with each passing year. With love, support, humane treatment and pervading compassion – those afflicted can persevere – and triumph.
But there is a cost. And I’m living proof of that reality.
Geez what was with this guy?
I can’t figure a way he was getting any outta this gal. What was she like a pet? He needs checked out too.
M-kay……
J R Ewing: Making sick, sexual jokes about the mentally ill is really, really #$%^ING disgusting. It makes you look like one of those wastes of sperm and egg from my hometown who used to prey on the retarded girl to see “how much they could git.”
I’m sure you’ve got human qualities; I’m sure you’re not as grotesque as my impregnator; I’m sure you’re not Larry Flynt’s mangled miscreant nephew or something eerily similar; but……
Ya kinda kompelled me ta hock something up from my intestines this afternoon. Dickesse.
Oh lighten up.
I wasn’t making fun of anyone.
I just wonder rightly so how and why the boyfriend let this go on so long. I mean after a week or even a few days any rational guy is calling someone.
Songbird at 11:06, you have summed up JR accurately and concisely. Nice job.
Thanks, P H.
JR: It’s OK. You don’t have to suffer. You don’t have to be a dirty little pigboy any longer. There’s help – there’s hope.
I realize it (that religious experience) must have been devastating….all those years ago, when you bowed your head, looked downward…..
And realized you weren’t like the other little boys.
But there are treatments – just ask John Wayne Bobbitt. I don’t know how well these prosthetic thangs work…..I mean, you won’t be able to “git somethin’” from retarded girls or anything refined like that, but………
You don’t have to suffer. You really and truly don’t.
Love,
Songbird
I wonder if there was a fine for littering, when the Bobbit “tool” was tossed along the side of the road?
Just saying…
Oh, Christ……
You know – that case was grotesque. I felt sympathy for neither of ‘em. I don’t believe in mutilation. I wouldn’t even do that to my ex. I do, however, derive great joy and merriment from his ongoing, icky back injury. A rapist being unable to walk and carry his plethorically misused, minuscule stick is just the FUNNIEST thing – EVER.
But I hate castration. If any poor sap gets involved with Lorena, he’s got salsa drippings for brains…..
Regular
Posted March 15, 2008 at 6:33 am | Permalink
Well…
Let’s see…
I think…
Maybe we should…
How about if we…
OR
There were two people living in the same house that were insane and this is an isolated incident.
______________________________________________
Case Closed
Why only attack JR for what he said? What about Max? I”m far more offended over what Max and Amway said.
By the way, boys who prey on retarded girls, they should be charged.
Obviously the woman is extremely mentally ill, and she was ostracized from her friends/family for a very long time. How could someone help her if they didn’t know that she was there? Or, how could she get help when she said that “she didn’t want to leave.” The blame lies with her boyfriend. Most normal people wouldn’t think that it was “normal” for their significant other to sit on a toilet seat for days at a time. Most normal people wouldn’t have “conversations in the bathroom” for two years.
“Mental illness is not recognized or treated like other diseases because of stigma and also for economic reasons.”
The stigma you mentioned is a major problem. If you get committed once, it will follow you. The mother of the kid in one of Michael Jackson’s trials had been in a psychiatric hospital for treatment for depression. The media got hold of it and you can guess what happened. They made sure to trumpet it– it’s the equivalent of yelling, “You can’t believe her! She’s been in a lunatic asylum! She’s mental! Probably nuts!”
I’ve known of people who were in similar straits and refused an offer of hospitalization because they feared that it would come out later and brand them as “crazies.”
That’s the trouble with psychiatric medicine: we’ve greatly moved forward in terms of pharmaceutical therapies and such, but our attitudes about the mentally ill themselves haven’t advanced.
“And of course there is no one or nothing that forces them to continue to take their meds and we are back to square one.”
Of course, Gene Raston is right on this one.
Some states have been experimenting with an “Advance Directive” kind of model, where when competent to accept or decline treatment, the patient will draw up a statement concerning their wishes for those times in the future when they are too psychotic or too incompacitated to legally/competently decline treatment. It seems to work in Washington state and seems to be a humane and legally acceptable alternaitve to me.
P-mom is correct too, there are not enough treatment alternatives for folks needing these type of services. Too much has been pushed off onto law enforcement people to deal with problems they have no way of dealing with. I think at some point untreated mentally ill people suffering as this poor woman had to – starts to effect all Kansans lives – even those not directly suffering.
Fiore
Excellent point!
The stigma, itself, keeps many from getting help!
(By the way, liberals, please notice, from this day forward, how many of your “kind, compassionate” liberal friends use terms like “Section 8″ or “Bat @@@@ Crazy” or tell those they disagree with to “Go take your meds!” Also, look how often the left, on this Blog, use terms like “retard” or some form there of.)
Speaking of “stigma” —
How many of you have actually had someone committed, against his or her will, for alcoholism, drug abuse, or mental illness?
The “stigma” is huge.
The weight is very, very heavy.
Nobody will thank you.
You will become the “enemy” to the long distance relatives who would rather sweep problems under the rug.
This boyfriend should not be charged with any crime.
Without him?
This girl might have been stuck to the underside of a bridge.
“Hard cases make bad law!” No law should be passed based on this sad tale.
Yes, he needs help too.
Offer him some help, not a criminal record, for Heaven’s sake!
That’s standard fare for a Lib, Econ101. That is, they can be hypocrites when they say stuff, even if it is rude, crude or racist.
I classify them as Redneck Hippies myself.
“That is, they can be hypocrites when they say stuff, even if it is rude, crude or racist.”
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, like calling someone a Heebie or accusing them of being gay because they support gay rights?
Like that?
(chortles)
Poor Clarkie the victim.
Everyone give him a big “ahhhh”
(smirks)
Thread drift takes another victim.
The issue at hand is how society deals with those on the edge of mental health.
If, as is indicated, the individuals involved are or were borderline competent, seems like the family, or the community, or “the village,” or the church, or the government… somebody… might have discovered her plight before a year or a month or whatever of her sitting on the toilet.
Despite all the whining about the “Nanny State,” a lot of liberal programs are the natural consequence of family failing, and community failing, and “village” failing, and church failing. As it turned out, the people who discovered the poor woman on the toilet were on the tax-payers’ tab.
“Poor Clarkie the victim.”
Do you mean like a whining Republican that complains that people pick on him and out him using public information? You mean like a fat cat right winger that threatens to stomp a mudhole into people and calls them out to fight, then chickens out?
Like that?
(smirks and chortles)
poor, poor Clarkie – always seeking attention…
Monkey
As I understand the story, the boyfriend, as slow as he was to do so, was the one who actually did, finally, call for help!
Thing is?
This strangely socially disabled woman will now be absolutely HOUNDED by the press. ALL the shows will be after an interview. I suspect the near future for this woman will be rather rough and full of attention she would rather not have. I hope someone in her family or some public appointed assistance helps her more than her boyfriend did.
Ok,
Again folks, though it has been asked already, by others:
Prior to her actually getting stuck to the toilet seat, what was anyone supposed to do to help this woman?
No ambulance crew would have the power to force her out of the bathroom.
The police would check for domestic violence, perhaps, or drugs, then leave the scene.
Until there was an actual medical, bodily injury, like the infection problem, it would have been very difficult to get anyone to help this guy out.
Yes, you wonder why he did not look for help, from someone else.
Maybe, he had been down a similar road, before, with this woman?
Who knows.
This woman will be a mess, if she is not allowed her “lifeline” to the world — her boyfriend.
IMHO, though the relationship is unhealthy, and he is in need of advice and support, — She will be terrified without him.
Also
How many stories have their been, in the last couple of years, about obese people who needed to be removed from a home?
Some, even, had to have entire walls cut out of apartments in order to take the patient to the hospital.
Should those families and friends be charged with “neglect” for allowing those people to eat too much?
Those obese patients had bead sores, too.
Often, in such cases, the patients are attached to their bed sheets!
Sick and sad, yes.
Criminal?
Well, criminal law, IMO, is something we use to protect society.
Is this guy likely to go find another woman to sit on his toilet, if we dont put him in jail?
“Econ101″ offers –
“…the boyfriend, as slow as he was to do so, was the one who actually did, finally, call for help!”
Yeah, finally. At least that’s how I understand the story.
But we’re on our way to some basic “conservative” vs. “liberal” connundrums here.
The Cons want to reduce the cost of state government (which should deal with mentally ill) and adovcate non-institutionalization. The Liberals think that people, even of reduced mental capacity, should be able to avoid institutionalization so long as there’s an infrastructural safety-net available for folks that aren’t quite able to cut muster.
I have no idea how social services are administered in Ness City, but it seems to me that marginally-capable people — even if they seem to be functioning on some level — should catch the attention of someone in the community. Neighbors, a church group, local social workers… *SOMEBODY* should have come across this poor woman after she spent a month sitting on the toilet.
If you give me a good book, I might not come off the toilet for a month either!
February 2001 – March 2004 George W. Bush pushed his mental health initiative full inclusion for all Americans. Getting all of us evaluated because mental illness is no shame, after all. And, it would have helped him line the pockets of his cronies in the pharmeceutical industry.
“The President’s New Freedom Initiative for People with Disabilities: The 2004 Progress Report”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/newfreedom/toc-2004.html
Oh wait, the inspiration for it was “compassionate conservatism.”
Now it’s all the liberals fault…?
I get it, if it’s an initiative to rob American taxpayers blind it’s a good idea and we re-elect the thief to office.
If the idea is to actually help people we smear the “liberals” because they’re bad people.
In the mean time, our “moral values” are crippling our economy and freedoms, families increasingly struggle to make ends meet, crime is on the rise, the fundamentalists who’ve spent the past 25 years telling us what a terrible place America are cackling with glee to see the nation’s downfall because being “right” is better than living well, and NONE of the “party of personal responsibility” who pushed to have EIGHT YEARS of the policies that are causing this destruction will step up and admit they were wrong.
Personally, I wish the Rapture would come and take you harpies from the face of the Earth. Give the rest of us some peace. The rest of us would be better off Satan’s minions than – Limbaugh’s, Colter’s, O’Reilly’s, and etc… .
MonkeyHawk is correct – the deinstitutionalization movement got adopted pretty quickly. There was support from both sides of the aisle – for entirely different reasons. Conservatives were interested in saving money; Liberals thought living in the communtiy was a better alternative and it ususally is. There was supposed to be a transfer of funds from the state to the local level as state hospitals were shut down. This transfer, not just in Kansas, tended to not happen.
People with severe and persistant mental illness can live a quality life in the community with the right resources and supervision. Too often, cases like these fall through the cracks because it’s easier today for people to isolate and hide from society.
I have a woman right now living in conditions that a dog shouldn’t have to endure, with her family’s blessing apparently. I’ve managed to get social workers involved and she’ll be placed in a facility where she can receive the help she needs (and she wants to go), but it took her getting really sick and her doctor making a referral for home health to come into her home and see what was going on. Who knows how long she would have languished in the filth and neglect had it not happened. Her family obviously couldn’t care less about her, or maybe they live the same way and for them it’s normal, I don’t know. It’s just so sad…and there are too many elderly and mentally ill people living this way.
I think as a society, we tend to be isolated from each other for a variety of reasons. That’s why it happens.
Everybody is a little bit crazy. Its just when it affects you from functioning at a productive level when people get labled crazy.
We are still a nation which is (hopefully) compassionate to care about those who are physically or mentally infirm.
Somehow these folks just slipped away from us for awhile. But, now, I would hope that we provide them with the help and oversight that they need.
God bless them both and I pray that everything works out well for them.
There was a good story in the Hutchinson News on Friday about this case. The woman, whose name is Pam Babcock, was apparently a somewhat normal, although shy and mentally disabled woman, as a teenager. Her isolation didn’t start until she started dating Kory McFarren, the man she lived with. Here is a quote from the article:
“Her father said she began distancing herself after she graduated from UHS in 1992 and moved to Ness City. That’s when she began dating Kory McFarren, he said.
“My sister, mom and me tried to get ahold of her over the years, but Kory wouldn’t let us talk to Pammy. He’d politely answer the door and tell us she didn’t want to see us.”
Source: The Hutchinson News, Family: The isolation began long ago, by Kathy Hanks (http://www.hutchnews.com/Todaystop/isolation).
So far all the accounts of how this woman lived are taken from Kory. Pam Babcock hasn’t said one word about how she lived or why she lived that way. I hope the investigators really look into this Kory McFarren. It is possible he was keeping her inside and abusing her. She doesn’t want to talk because she’s afraid of him.
We need more facts on this case before everyone starts letting this Kory McFarren off the hook. It isn’t normal for a man to live with a woman who doesn’t leave the bathroom for 2 years and not seek help or tell anyone about it. The only logical explanation is that he wanted her in the bathroom, he wanted to keep her isolated. That’s why he didn’t tell anyone.
SHE also said she suffered bad childhood abuse. So the boyfriend COULD had been trying to protect her.
Mental illness doesn’t just come and go. Sadly they are often preyed upon by others though.
IF he had her only to abuse her I find it improbable that he’d also call the police.
And he obviously did not use good judgement in not calling them sooner, but if he had issues himself, it may had seemed like they would make the situation worse.
as far as being a compassionate society, no, we’re not. Just look at what hoops it takes to get help for homeless.
Regular has been stuck to the chair in front of his computer for years.
Somebody should help him . . .
I haven’t read any news reports that have reported any comments by Pam Babcock whatsoever. All the quotes have been from the boyfriend. The story is being reported completely one-sided, from the boyfriends viewpoint of what happened. She didn’t say she was abused, he said that, and he could have been lying.
The reports from her family say that she started being isolated when she met him.
Ask yourself why no one in Ness City even knew he had a girlfriend. He never even mentioned casually with co-workers that he had this girlfriend who wouldn’t leave the house. Never talked about it to anyone. Just went home and lived and slept in that stench wafting out of the bathroom, and gave her bread and water.
He probably only called the police because he didn’t want her to die and be charged with homicide.
OK
I agree. I should reserve judgement until the rest of the story comes out.
The guy MIGHT be criminally at fault, somehow. It just doesnt sound that way to me, so far.
But, yes, I will say that this Kory might not be the helpless, co-dependent figure he seems to be.
I will with hold judgement on that matter, for now.
However, so should we all.
—-
I have entered houses, before, on insurance and financial matters, and been sickened by what I saw.
Sure sign of mental decline?
More than a normal number of pets.
Like, dozens of cats and/or dogs with no real effort to house train, box train or clean up after the animals.
Sometimes, such places are out in the “wilderness” and there is no support, and there is no law preventing the hoarding of animals.
Yes, there are animal cruelty laws, but the animals usually look pretty healthy.
It is the cat droppings on 02 equipment, and the shoe boxes on the floor, with meds in them and kittens sleeping next to them, that really bugs me.
Such things happen quite a few times, over the years, when you have been invited into people’s homes for over 25 years, as part of your business.
What do you do?
Sometimes, you ask for a name of a relative or advisor or friend.
But, if such existed, how to explain this mess?
Yes it is sad, but I see very little that government can do about it.
Also, insurance and health care workers have pretty strict rules about the information we gather, and what we can do with that information.
If I do not witness a crime, there is little that I can do, other than try to get a family member or friend involved.
Sadly, they probably already KNOW!
Our current mental health treatment is broken into two levels:
One, we have a community of psychiatrists, psychologists and psychiatric social workers that is available in varying degrees throughout the state for those who can pay or are insured with mental health coverage.
Two, we have a number of free or low-cost county or charity-run storefront facilities that are generally understaffed, underfunded, overworked, difficult to find and iffy about getting an appointment to be seen in a reasonable time-frame.
I have no idea what facilities, if any, exist in Ness City. If there is affordable treatment, it would involve transporting the patient to the facility, not an easy task in the case of a severe agoraphobic, who is deathly afraid of crowds and strangers, and would be terrified in the extreme just leaving her room, let alone the challenges of the street and the waiting room. It may well have been impossible for her partner, who has challenges of his own to get her to and through the office while maintaining enough composure to receive treatment. A fully funded and staffed facility might be able to start treatment in the home and progress to office visits in degrees. The big question becomes does Ness City have such a facility?
Pall,
I remember visiting such a house a number of years ago, of a woman who was unable to throw away anything. Books, magazines and newspapers made every room and staircase a challenge to get through (I’ve seen similar cases among those who had a particularly difficult time during the great depression). This woman was still fully functioning and in fact a well-known classical musician who played around town often.
Ooh Christ.
Once more the guiness has sthg to add in their book.
The beau has a mental breakdown too, he needs a medical assistance.
So this woman moved in with a man who wouldn’t let her family see her. This is not a problem to be solved with a new state social service agency. This could have been solved if the family had contacted the sheriff. Good grief!
Jed
Yes, the accumulation of newspapers, magazines and junk mail is another indicator that something isnt quite right.
I see that from time to time, as well.
I see it a lot..but it’s only when the person’s health is in danger due to their living conditions that anyone can intervene against their wishes. It’s not against the law to be crazy or a really bad housekeeper.
What I like to do in these situations is get the Center For Independant Living to do an evaluation to see if the person qualifys for in-home help. Two of my clients would have been taken out of their homes and placed in nursing homes, but we managed to get them aides through Home and Community Based Services (HCBS) that help them clean, cook, do laundry, grocery shopping…whatever they need that they have difficulty doing for themselves. It’s really a matter of hooking them up with the services that are already available..they just need help to navigate the system. Anyone can advocate for someone who needs help, you don’t have to be a social worker or menatl health professional to do it. It just takes caring people who are willing to get involved.
Mary,
I had to navigate the troubled waters of HCBS for a friend who had terminal cancer several years back. It’s no task for anyone without experience dealing with government agencies and not easy for one who has. After he was approved for the program my friend was put on a waiting list for over 6mo. and received help only in the last 5wks of his life.
Reading some of the comments surrounding this tragic case, one wonders why there isn’t a soap opera about our fair state – titled “Sexual Mores in Kansas.”
In 1982, my older brother phoned me in Los Angeles, where I was then living. One of his new friends, a musician I shall name “John Doe”, evidently wished to meet me. Because I sounded like an “interesting person,” in his estimation. So, Mr. Doe flew all the way to L.A. to meet me.
We had what I and he thought was a “great” time. We were both Catholic; we both lived and breathed music; we both had an encyclopedic knowledge of the arts; we both were single and looking for lurv, and…..(and this was the big one)….
He looked distinctly like John Sebastian of the Lovin’ Spoonful.
I had, at that time, just emerged from many years of unremitting emotional anguish during my youth, and I was ready for marriage. I wanted to find that Special Someone – preferably male, handsome, Catholic and musically mellifluent.
There are, however, certain things that proper young ladies don’t do during dates – especially first dates. I wouldn’t have thought to ask him about his sexual history – nor did it even cross my mind. He, however, volunteered that, during his days as a reprobate young adult in a rock band in Hays, he had evidently been rather wild.
He then asked me about my amatory adventures. I said only that I’d had one relationship. Poor little John, who had been eating ravenously, allowed his fork, by now bearing several strands of pasta which lay dormant in his utensil, to stop mid-point to his mug.
“But I thought you were C-A-T-H-O-L-I-C,” he whined with a touch of petulance. I stated that this had occurred before my conversion. He looked only slightly placated.
When I moved back to Hays several months later, “John” had met and become engaged to “Susie” – a divorced, single mother whose own history matched his own. With one rather glaring exception.
Evidently, “John” the rock star and several of his bandmates had grabbed a rope one lonely, sex-starved night, preyed on a local retarded girl, and sexually assaulted her. Somehow they escaped prosecution – but several people knew about this.
I know that God can forgive any sin – this is the cornerstone of most religious faiths. But this kind of filth is my Achille’s a$$hole. Further, “John” the Baptist had no business questioning me (or condemning) me for my own risible history – as his was rather extensive, evidently.
26 years ago, I was terrifically disappointed. I was lonely; I wanted to be married; a lifetime of celibacy wasn’t what I wanted (even if it’s what I got). And the fact that it looked like the dude who belted out “Summer in the City” in 1966 made it all the more painful.
Now I look to the heavens and offer profuse thanks. If you assault the mentally impaired (whether you’re male or female) – you’re not only slime. You’re a rapist. I wouldn’t let another rapist touch my tender flesh.
Poor little “John”. He married his strutting songbird in 1983 – and she left him for a music impresario in Arizona in 1988. Poor little “John” – he wasn’t looking for love. He was looking for a hymen he could call his own.
No telling what would have happened after this invaluable appendage had been ripped to smithereens……………
Songbird,
Quite the little soap opera there! While I’m sure we all appreciate your candor, what relevance does it have to the topic of this thread, the woman with agoraphobia?
Jed – get a buttload of the comments by some pig named “JR”. He sorta reminded me of poor little John.
Sorry – weird things happen to women at my age. We get sorta nostalgic in a sick sorta way…….
Jed, sorry your experience was so frustrating…but all it takes to get someone HCBS services is to make a phone call to The Center For Independant Living to request an evaluation and they do the rest. Some people qualify, some don’t…but they figure it out. It took no special knowledge on my part to get the services in place..only knowing where to call. I’d urge anyone who knows someone who needs help to make the call. As far as both my of clients, services started within a week of the eval..it’s not like there aren’t enough people to do the job…they use the aides from the local home health agencys.
It’s much easier than trying to get someone qualified for Medicaid. That’s a whole different process..maybe that’s what you’re referring to?
Mary,
After having serious trouble in the past with incompetent and corrupt people at CIL, I had to go other routes to get HBCS for my friend.
lindainks55
Posted March 15, 2008 at 7:27 am | Permalink
Linda – Someone in Kansas can be involuntarily committed not only if they are a danger to others, but also if they are a danger to themselves. Not taking lifesaving medication because they believe it is poisoned, not leaving a bathroom for God knows how long due to a phonbia, that very well could be seen as reason for commitment.
phonbia = phobia
Self neglect that threatens one’s life is reason to commit.
Jed..I don’t know who you’re talking about..everyone I’ve dealt with at the Center For Independant Living has been so willing to help everytime I’ve had a client that was in need. From the receptionist to the social workers..everyone has always been great.
Not everyone qualifys…some make too much money or they aren’t physically disabled enough, but the ones who meet the criteria have never had a problem.
What sort of corruption are you talking about?
A friend with MS drew a CIL case manager who was taking money under the table to steer clients to a paticular home health service that was a nightmare of incompetence and mismanagement. When they couldn’t find a worker to show up when scheduled, the office manager would come over, forward the office phones to her house and run the agency from there. I found out what was going on when I saw her writing checks to the case manager. The case manager then convinced the state that my friend was an alcoholic (she didn’t drink at all and never had) and took away her right to self-determine her care. It took almost 6 mos. to get that back, 6 mos. of horror stories and incompetent care that it would take an afternoon to tell you about, including the infection that eventually killed her.
Thank goodness She’s out in time to vote for Obama…
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