New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer had little choice but to resign, given that his career was based on integrity, justice and public accountability. He referred to his implication in a prostitution investigation as a “private failing,†but it was much more than that. As columnist Leonard Pitts wrote on today’s Opinion pages, Spitzer’s betrayal also hurts public life. “Do you know how hard it is to believe?†Pitts wrote. “To overcome cynicism and inertia and place fragile trust in the hands of someone who claims to represent values higher than expediency and self? . . . Do you know how much less likely you are ever to give belief again?â€
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93 Comments
Why is it that when these scandels happen, the wife is ALWAYS standing dutifully by her man as he resigns? Is there a handbook they all read about the image they need to present when facing the consequences of their own stupidity?
If my husband did this, he’s be standing at the podium with a black eye and I’d be celebrating my divorce by sailing off to the Caribbean with my girlfriends.
“…given that his career was based on integrity, justice and public accountability.”
Are we to presume that if a politician’s career is based on something else, he should not resign?
Methinks brownlee suffers from muddy thinking.
And pitts hand wringing is just pitiful.
We know that Mary…
Mary we could fly you up to New York as a surrogate “wife enforcer,” so you could slap the dog squeeze out of Spitzer for his wife. :D
Mary,
Just a ball park guess, but maybe it stems from the type of women they are. They may be the type of women who feel their sole purpose is to support their husbands. I am betting that when the news hits, their world is destroyed. Here they have dedicated X number of years supporting their husbands and raising the children to have it all pulled out from under them. Women of this mindset may feel utterly lost. They feel that without their husbands they have no life as they have built their lives around their husbands. They listen and believe their husband’s apology.
Just a wild a$$ guess on my part. My Aunt is kind of like that. Her world revolves around my uncle. Were he to screw up, I honestly can’t say what she would do. There may be other factors as well. The social involvement. The wives may be accustom to being around other affluent people. W/o their husbands, they no longer have the ‘pass’ to be in those circles.
Pretty good question. I am betting there is no one single answer, but something to ponder.
P.S.
As an aside, were I to screw up like this, you might be on that boat with my wife, maxing out the credit card in my name :-D
Spitzer is married to a woman who will support him even though he is a cheating dishonest dirtbag.
By standing with him, Silda is showing him and the world what an idiot he is for doing what he did while being married to a whoman like her.
“woman like her”
can’t spell this morning.
Don’t kid yourself.
These “dutiful wives” married rich and powerful husbands.
The difference between them and the high priced prostitute is that they have a marriage license.
Thanks, Fleettwood, for implying that Larry Craig and David Vitter should also resign.
We agree on that at least . . .
I don’t mind Spitzer paying for a prostitute numerous times, I’d rather he didn’t do it, but we’re all human here. Now if he used taxpayers money to pay for prostitutes, then he should definitley serve some jail time.
Notice how quiet it gets from the reich-wing when one of their own is caught in exactly the same situation.
A Democratic office holder like Spitzer must resign. A Republic like Larry Craig or David Vitter?
Ehhh . . . not so much . . .
Here’s to another form of Prostitution-
Immigration bill pleases business groups
By James Carlson
The Capital-Journal
Published Thursday, March 13, 2008
As Sen. John Vratil, R-Leawood, walked out of a hearing Wednesday where he helped significantly alter an immigration bill before its passage, a Kansas Chamber of Commerce representative shook his hand.
“Thank you very much,” said Jeff Glendening, vice president of political affairs with the chamber. “Greatly appreciated.”
“I hope it’s to your liking,” Vratil said.
“Very much so,” Glendening responded.
The Senate Federal and State Affairs Committee approved an immigration reform bill the chamber called “a giant step forward.” But supporters of the original bill were seething after the measure was stripped of virtually all penalties on businesses that knowingly hire undocumented workers, instead making that a civil offense.
Actually, I see the Democats on this blog fairly quiet. THere were howls of attack when Craig was busted, or not, depending on your definition. “He is a hypocrit for attacking gays, and yet being gay himself”. I see no such attacks on Spitzer, even though he has done essentlially the same thing. Attack legally what he does himself. I say same oh same oh. Craig and Vitters should resign. I have called for same in the past, I continue to call for their resignaiton, but I do not live in their district. Perhaps they are waiting for another election to just turn them out. I guess that is their right, even though I disagree with them. In any case, I would like to see a hue and cry for the resignaiton of all those convicted of a misdemeanor (Craig). Vitters, I know the rumors, but I don;t think he was charged with anythimg (which by the Spitzer has not either). I guess in the case of Vitters, then I would agree that all politcians, if sunbstantial rumors or a link to illegal enterprise can be found, should be fired. Wow, not many mambers of congress left.
I guess in the end,Craig should be impeached, Vitters should just resign for the sake of his office, as Spitzer already has. I am not ready to dothe research on the restof the bass turds
Fair enough, LJ.
Mary
According to reports Spitz’ wife was one of his only advisers telling him to stick it out. Which leads me to think that on a personal level it didnt bother her.
Her husbands position has it’s perks for her as well. She may be more concerned with losing those than she is with him sleezing around. Think Hillary. Bill was her connection to power and influence, something she craves. Divorcing him would have made her what? Another divorced lawyer.
Marriage is not always about love and family.
What is getting me is they identify the prostitute by name and plead off that she is a starving musician from a troubled home. My question is just what difference does that all make? The woman got over Four thousand dollars for having sex with him! That is the saddest statement, maybe she was a bad musician but it reinforces the sad reality that a woman can make more money using her body instead of her mind. Why do we put more a premium on sex than skill and intelligence? And stating she was from a troubled home, to imply that was an excuse is a slap in the face of every woman who also endured such a home life. And did not turn to prostitution.
The reality is that when the average woman can make more money using her body over her mind. Logically speak why would she need the excuse of a bad home life? many of the dancers in any of the clubs you could go to. Are either College students or single mothers needing as much money as they can get. When the choices are working at Wal-Mart for below eight dollars an hour or dance nude a couple of nights a week and make over one thousand dollars for two nights. Pride be damned, they need to live!
Some marriages are business relationships first and foremost.
If it works for them?
It is not my place to judge, at least not where the wife is concerned, if it is the hubby that screws up.
—-
I think there are at least a couple of Republicans that should probably quit politics, and resign their seats.
However, Barney Frank and Gerry Studds, both Democrats, continued to serve after their scandals became public.
In the end, the voters should decided such things, as far as legislators are concerned.
Law enforcement officials, like Attorney Generals?
Governors?
High level officials, with prosecution power or pardon power, can not be compromised like this.
Black mail is an obvious problem.
Public trust is another.
Governor Portnoy
UNAVOIDABLE!!!
Yup, Spitzer just couldn’t avoid those prostitutes. You know, Spitzer was FORCED to wire $80,000 to several whores.
The devil made him do it. Spitzer just couldn’t help himself. I mean, look at his wife and all. Plus he’s such a stud, what was he to do?
It was UNAVOIDABLE!!!
No personal responsibilty for Democrats. Nobody, except for Republicans, is responsible for their own actions.
It was UNAVOIDABLE!!!
Max-
I don’t think that is what anyone meant by unavoidable. You know better, at least I think you do.
No from the headline LJ, what else would be Brownlee’s point?
Drilling down to the root cause you know. Brownlees surely knows what led to Spitzer resigning. 1) He committed several crimes, 2) he got caught – and those two events had to occur before he 3) resigned.
You think Brownlee is saying that had Spitzer campaigned to legalize hookers, that he could have done 1 & 2 above and NOT resigned?
So if Bill Clinton was Governor of NY, Bill could have gotten by with this because we all EXPECT him to be a scumbag?
Yeah, that’s probably what Brownlee meant.
I still think a li’l nookey on the side ain’t such a bad thing. If he wants to step down for it (and he did), more power to him. I don’t think it’d be bad if a REP did get a bit on the side, either LJ. Where my problem lies is when Reps say they’re so righteous and pius and everyone else are low-life scums and sinners and then it turn out they’re they’re the worse. Supposedly that’s alright because of all the time they’ve put in bitching about others doing it? C’mon!
Did happen to catch a show on prostitution last weekend or maybe one before. Really, it’s only been in the last 100 years or so that it has had such a bad rep (’cept for the churches). Churches rallied around the ‘white slavery’ route, the bureau of investigation was formed (yeah, our FBI) to route out the white slavers, and (can’t remember exact figures) something like 3 indentured (read slave) hookers in about 6000 prostitutes. This was in New York.
Also can’t quite remember the position of the person they quoted, but what he said made a lot of sense: Prostitution is like the sewer of the city–get rid of it and before long your up to your armpits in shit.
“Where my problem lies is when Reps say they’re so righteous and pius and everyone else are low-life scums and sinners and then it turn out they’re they’re the worse. Supposedly that’s alright because of all the time they’ve put in bitching about others doing it? C’mon!”
This seems to be EXACTLY the case for SPitzer. Hypocrisy has no political bounds. DO we really want to get into a listing of each parties failings and hypocracies? A pox on both their houses.
As far as prostitution being okay or not, I will leave that for another day. As it is, it is currently illegal. Makes no difference whether or not you agree with the law, the law is what it is. Make your case to change it, or just follow it. Or shut up (not you directly) when you get busted and suffer the consequences. Those are the three choices, in my mind.
You’re ranting a bit much, “Max ” –
(Perhaps you should go chase kids off your lawn to let off steam.)
I’d've used the word “inevitable” rather than “unavoidable.”
How you twist that into “No personal responsibilty for Democrats. Nobody, except for Republicans, is responsible for their own actions,” is where you lose me.
Sounds like Spitzer’s paying pretty dearly for his actions, unlike, say, Senator David Vitter.
Spitzer’s situation has nothing to do with political philosophy, it’s a stunning example of self-destructive behavior.
ghot
Spitzer PROSECUTED prostitution rings, as AG.
What in the world are you talking about?
You act as though ONLY a Republican can be a hyocrite.
Spitzer not only prosecuted such behavior, in the past, he grandstanded and moralized and self-promoted everything he did!
Or shut up (not you directly) when you get busted and suffer the consequences
that’s always been my contention: if ya can’t afford the time, ya don’t do the crime. I used to smoke a bit of weed (and indulge in many otherenjoyables), and if I had ever got caught, I’d pay the fine or whatever and go my way. I don’t speed, and stop at all stopsigns–not because I necessarily agree with the law, but because it makes sense! But I won’t use a turn signal in a turning lane precisely because it makes NO SENSE!
____________________________________________
You act as though ONLY a Republican can be a hyocrite
No, actually I’m implying that he got caught being a hypocrit so he stepped down. Rep party’s turn.
It’s not the crime (being a John), it’s the structuring! Kind of like it’s not the bj, it’s the lying about it!
Yea, from Mrs. Spitzers facial mannuerisms, it seems like she’s more pissed at her husband for getting caught than she is hearbroken. I imagine she’s saying in her head, what a collosal dumbass I married. She’s probably whooped his ass around a bit.
I agree with all that, phantom. I just think the whole ’sex-scandal’ trash is stoopid! For ALL parties, and even for the ‘godly’ (as if!!!).
It’s little more than a way to get your name in the paper “Looky, I outed out that guy–gimme a gold star”.
“my problem lies is when Reps say they’re so righteous and pius and everyone else are low-life scums and sinners”
Ghotiphaze you haver really described politicians in general, and not any one political party. I don’t really know any “Reps” whom you can quote who says everyone else are low-life, blah-blah-blah.
I imagine such thinking comes from when the religious right captured the party and now everytime ANY republican screws up – you have an impression they all held beliefs you so easily attribute to them.
But there really is no difference when it comes to making claims of high integrity and righteousness. Both parties have the same faults.
It is convenient to forget that and allows labeling and enjoyable vent postings.
There is another way to look at this.
Professional athletes are, generally, prohibited by contract from ANY type of gambling.
Why? Because you can not have anyone think that an athlete might come in contact with someone who would pay that athlete to “throw” a game, to benefit those betting against that team.
In other words, even if prostitution were legal, there are other reasons why a law enforcement official or government official should not be involved.
The wife, for instance, might not care so much about the legality of the act. It is blackmail material, legal or illegal.
Anyway, I still think that “executive” positions should resign, in such situations, a bit faster than legislators, who do not hold the power of life and death, literally, over other people.
I still remember Hillary sitting next to Bill during some interview where they were discussing their marriage problem and Bill’s unfaithfulness.
Maybe the Gov’s wife is just setting herself up for a career?
(and I’d still be hiding from my wife. Not sure I would end up with JUST a black eye.)
Am Way
There IS a personality type that is highly attracted to being in the public eye.
Movie stars, politicians, clergy and others often share some of those personality traits.
Those who share those personality traits are probably more likely to have these problems.
So it’s the hypocrisy that is the most irritating then? So why don’t politicians run their campaigns supporting every sexual and moral vice that has ever been dreamed of?
What a great country we would be if there were no standards for our leaders except for the requirement that they not be a hypocrite.
But we all know, if politicians revealed their actionable proclivities to us all, they would not be elected.
So we will always elect “morally acceptable” candidates only to find that a few turn out to be Spitzer.
Ha!
Mrs. Spitzer was a very successful lawyer and Harvard grad before she met the gov. I suspect she could buy her own jewelry or vacation. Maybe she took the marriage vows seriously and now is seriously pissed?
Ya know, lots of us “girls” are capable of outearning our “men”. (sarcasm intended)
We dont NEED a husband or a man. Some women just want them. Why is it that when a woman stands by her marriage vows, folks think is about money? Sometimes it is, and sometimes it’s about doing the right thing.
So much for the wingnut sanctity of marriage. They love to bag on anyone who actually OBSERVES it, instead of just PREACHING about it.
In your list of personality types, paulie, you forgot “bloggers”.
I notice Mrs. Spitzer is about my age. Some of you all forget that when Hillary and Silda were young, their marriages new, and their families small, women frequently gave up their careers to support their hubby at home. It was conventional wisdom that ONLY the man would be successful “in the world” and that would be in the best interest of the family.
Now they sold themselves for sex, marriage or the privilege of being the first lady?
Woof. How quickly we forget. Both Hillary and Silda were successful BEFORE marriage. Why would anyone be surprised they could be successful now?
AmWay, the reason it seems (ok, for purposes of this forum, it’s true) I’m so anti Rep is because of the hard dyed Reps on here that JUMP, YELL, SCREAM WITH GLEE everytime a mishap befalls a Dem, while at the same time their party is experiencing exactly the SAME TROUBLES. Don’t label me. I rag on Dems, too. Unfortunately, the Dems are too busy defending against unwarranted attacks on this forum from Reps.
I guarantee any unbiased person reading these blogs would turn anti-Rep in a very short time.
I know nothing about the Spitzer’s relationship. Nor is it any of my business. He’s gone. Let’s move on. Well, I must add this. Spitzer should be happy he is not married to my wife. She might say married to me, however I would not sleep at night. I am afraid the Bobbit syndrome would be the mostly like result of any dalliances upon my part.
Econ and Max post and post . . . but they won’t say that their guys — Craig and Vitter — should resign.
Neither will Fleetwood or outlander for that matter . . .
Face it, li’l boys are diff’nt fum li’l girlies. Some studies show (I’m curious myself who funded this study) that a man faced with a cheating spouse goes into a homicidal rage (directed at who depends on the person), while women just go, “oh, well, boys’ll just be boys”
“the reason it seems (ok, for purposes of this forum, it’s true) I’m so anti Rep is because of the hard dyed Reps on here that JUMP, YELL, SCREAM WITH GLEE everytime a mishap befalls a Dem, while at the same time their party is experiencing exactly the SAME TROUBLES.”
Same oh same oh. Seen it from members of both parties. Neither party has a handle on moral actions, in my view.
“while women just go, “oh, well, boys’ll just be boys”
Not in my neck of the woods
I’m so anti Dem is because of the hard dyed Libs on here that JUMP, YELL, SCREAM WITH GLEE everytime a mishap befalls a Rep, while at the same time their party is experiencing exactly the SAME TROUBLES.
Right back at ya. Apparently I am part of the problem too!
“It was conventional wisdom that ONLY the man would be successful “in the world” and that would be in the best interest of the family.”
Interesting comment KFG. I’ve used it before to illustrate the changes in our society, in particular the fact that it seems my wife and I both work – to maintain the same standard of living as our parents had with just the man working.
However, when you mention the two women, it makes me wonder WHEN exactly this change came about.
I can’t put a finger on it myself. But I’m thinking the late 1960’s, when women fought for their rights to work during the changes that decade brought. Or was in later? In the seventies?
Never heard of “daycare” growing up.
When did America really transform itself to both spouses working?
Not in my neck of the woods
Over the years I’ve seen many (at least over a hundred in not in the hundreds) instances of infidelity. the women talk a good game, but like the barcalounger quarteback, when they get in the field they don’t go 10 yards. Many file divorce, some even stay divorced. Separations usually last less than a year with ‘visitation’ rights. Occasionally the guy is back in the house by the end of the week. The Lorena Bobbits are rare.
Guys on the other hand generally resort to violence, even if it’s only the token slashing of tires (better tires than throat)
AmWay, I’d suggest the transformation to “both spouses working” really came to be a norm in the mid 1970s, for reasons of inflation, etc., resulting from a myriad of things. The market for goods and services adjusted to the “two income” model, which makes it almost mandatory in this world for both to work to achieve a standard of living that resembles the earlier generation’s. Just my thoughts, no research, scholarly papers, etc., read.
I would also suggest that the marketplace adjusted to the “two worker family”, making it difficult to maintain with a one wagearner family. However, what I also see is that the typical family is broke, but broke in a much higher lifestyle than the 1970s. More families had only one car, the size of houses being sold and built were smaller, nobody had cell phones or $200 tennis shoes. The cruise industry was intensely smaller than today as fewer families took such “grand vacations”, $4 lattes at Coffeeshops were unheard of, the family pet industry was limited to dog food, and on and on. We may be just as broke today, but we live in a much higher lifestyle.
In response to FarmGrrl’s standing by the vows;
I’ve talked about this several times with my wife. We are both happier with each other than we have ever been before. Dare I say we are each other’s first true love. The problem with our relationship is that it is so strong. I couldn’t breathe without her in my life. However, if she were unfaithful, that would shatter everything. I think it would hurt worse because we are such a strong couple. There would be no salvation for the relationship. Too much would be lost, vows or no vows.
What we figure would happen is that w/o the trust and the ever lingering anger, the relationship would be bust. So why put everyone through that. Infidelity is the deal breaker. Unless the relationship was pretty weak to begin with, I just don’t understand how any relationship could withstand infidelity.
So who are they going to prosecute, the four people that ran the bus., and their only? John. If they are going to do a bust it should be applied to all the Johns.
Sounds about right VT. Sad in a way. I have zero problem with women working and seeking careers. My wife has a professional job. It wasn’t because we were both ambitious. We HAD to work, and it just worked out for her to grow it into a career. But now that the kids are grown and gone, she is considering retiring early.
But with the possibility of Uncle Sam raising the retirement age for SS, increased medical costs, it appears to both of us she needs to keep working and contributing to 401K/Roths to ensure we can maintain the lifestyle in retirement!
Phantom, the only folks charged so far are the four named, who apparently ran the business. Former Gov. Spitzer hasn’t yet been charged with anything, although it is highly possible a plea deal is being worked on as we blog. I’d think there would be other “Johns” charged, too. I note none of the women who were the service providers have been charged as of the present time.
AmWay, I read you loud and clear. Sounds very familiar.
A former poster on this blog may be angered by my stance, but after stuff like this and l’affaire Clinton, I made the realization that if I ever got married, I needed to marry the kind of woman I’d cheat WITH, not cheat ON :)
My current fiancee is not the most beautiful woman I’ve ever been with, but she is the best companion I’ve had in a long, long time.
One of my neighbors back in Manhattan was a nationally-known marriage counselor and professor at KSU. One of the studies he used to talk about showed that people cheat on their marriage only when they feel their spouse no longer makes them feel good about themselves.
Looking back on the times family or friends have strayed, it makes sense. Makes you wonder what happened with Spitzer.
Alot of truth to what you said, LJ. Many of the things are circuitous, though. F’instance, one car before; you need at least 2 cars since both spouses work, more if your kid is in school and driving (’less ya wanna sponge off relatives). Granted, I live in a bigger house than when I was a kid, it isn’t much bigger, and there are twice as many of us now. the wife has a cell, but she works in a different town, and with the unreliability (gotta keep up more than the one) of vehicles, it’s kinda a survival factor. $200 shoes? Not here. I get the 1/2 price pair from payless for about $10 and I make damn sure they last 2 years if not 3. What’s a vacation? that’s when my roof gets shingled or the house plumbed. I’m still ticked coffee costs more than a dime and phone calls are more than a nickel. gotta admit, the dogs eat as good as we do since they eat what we’ve reheated so many times it’s unpalatable for human consumption.
Yes, I know all that’s out there, LJ, but really, there’s a BIG chunk of the population that never sees any of it.
KFG
I don’t think very many elected officials Blog, do you?
Why is that?
LOL
Capn
I DID TOO say that the Republicans cerntainly had some officials that should resign.
I also said that it was, finally, up to the voters in their districts.
I think Vitter and Crain and Barney Frank should ALL resign.
How is that?
“people cheat on their marriage only when they feel their spouse no longer makes them feel good”
Your NIC is fitting mrcontroversy. To each his own on your relationship. But I don’t agree with your above idea. I have to say that over the years I have had friends, business partners, fellow employees, and acquaintences where the man was a wolf hound – but I knew the wife to be a good person too. Looking at how good looking the wife was in some of these instances – I cannot understand why the guy is always trying to unwrap other presents. We don’t often talk about it. I don’t see it as my business.
I don’t think I’m alone.
Sorry to be so blunt, all jokes aside, Eliot Spitzer has some serious issues if he is paying for sex. Normal men do not visit prostitutes, regardless of how much they pay for it.
$40 or $4,000 – it’s all the same – she is still a hooker and you are still a John. It doesn’t matter if it is South Broadway, Wichita, KS or the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, D C.
The only thing different is the price tag.
“Barney Frank should ALL resign.”
Why should Barney Frank resign? Because he is gay?
“but broke in a much higher lifestyle than the 1970s.”
I agree in part LJ. We have bills our parents never dreamed of: Cell phone (and house phone for some), cable/sat TV, DVR, cable computer, sat radio, Onstar, GPS servies…….. (and how many am I missing).
Even though we are pretty conservative in our other spending habits, we do have these new bills.
“ksfarmgrrl” notes –
“Mrs. Spitzer was a very successful lawyer and Harvard grad before she met the gov. I suspect she could buy her own jewelry or vacation. Maybe she took the marriage vows seriously and now is seriously pissed?”
According to the NY Times, Mrs. Spitzer was one of the luv-guv’s advisors who urged he *not* resign.
We’ll probably never know if Silda did the math back in the 80s and chose to becaome “the wife,” and now resents that choice. *She* could’ve been the crusading Attorney General and reform Governor! And then Governor Portnoy screws it up with a slut from Jersey. And only a *THREE*-Diamond slut at that!
“We dont NEED a husband or a man. Some women just want them. Why is it that when a woman stands by her marriage vows, folks think is about money? Sometimes it is, and sometimes it’s about doing the right thing.
“So much for the wingnut sanctity of marriage. They love to bag on anyone who actually OBSERVES it, instead of just PREACHING about it.”
It’s become a cliche (’cuz it’s true): The most homophobic are likely to have strong homosexual urgess. And “preachers” tend to be most likely to fall victims to the “sins” that most tempt them. Ted Haggard, anyone?
David Vitter, Larry Craig, Mark Foley…
What kind of people do Americans elect, anyway?!
Pat Roberts can suck up to the Republic Party aparatus and sell out Kansans simply because he *doesn’t* get caught with a $4,500-a-night hooker? Sam Brownback’s a noble leader of conservatism simply because he doesn’t get caught in an airport restroom solliciting sex?
Priorities, people.
It isnt Silda’s fault that Elliot cheated. It isnt Hillary’s fault that Bill cheated. Dont blame the women. The men made their choices.
Solly, with all due respect, I didnt realize the marriage vows now said, “’till death do you part, unless one of you cheats”!
I’m glad you and your spouse feel that way. I felt that way too when I was married.
But… all the wingnut religious folks want to talk about the sanctity of marriage. The vows say ’till death do you part. Yet, they make all kinds of exceptions.
And it’s GAY people destroying marriage? hehehehehehhehehehehehehehheeh!
WS
Barney Frank:
“In 1990, the House voted to reprimand Frank when it was revealed that Steve Gobie, a male escort whom Frank had befriended after hiring him through a personal advertisement, claimed to have conducted an escort service from Frank’s apartment when he was not at home.”
Yes, if you dig, the House was not sure about some of the other charges and accusations against Frank.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_Frank
I don’t think Frank, Vitter, or Frank should be forced, by the law, to quit.
However, Gerry Studds did far more, and survived.
Frank? His district doesn’t care, why should I?
Monkey, are you just obsessed with my posts? You and I dont know a damn think about the Spitzer marriage. There are LOTS of possibilities. I jsut think it’s wrong to assume she’s in it for “the lifestyle”. One she was and presumably IS capable of providing for herself.
And yes, if she were a young woman beginning her career today, she might have chosen to go into politics and not be just a political wife. I remember being told that I couldnt BE a farmer, but I could marry one.
And we all know how THAT one worked out.
And it isnt just the hypocrisy surrounding gay sex. Straight people end their marriages all the time. And I remember lots of religious teaching about divorce and fidelity and such.
So.. the marriage vows for staight folks should be amended to say “’till death do you part, or until one of you changes their mind”?
And it’s GAY people destroying marriage? hehehehhe.
“So.. the marriage vows for st”R”aight folks should be amended to say “’till death do you part, or until one of you changes their mind”?”
We make up our own vows now. We’ve come a long way baby……..!
“However, Gerry Studds did far more, and survived.”
Really? Studds had a consensual relationship with a young man of the age of consent.
Frank was reprimanded, but was not directly involved with the prostitution ring.
“Straight people end their marriages all the time.”
I think that gay people should have an equal opportunity to experience the devastation of divorce.
I get your point Grrl about the vows. But at what point do you draw the line. I don’t think the vows were meant to keep you in a miserable relationship.
I have since shed my RR blinders :-D
It isn’t the gay folks destroying marriages, it is stupid people.
Grrl,
Wait wait wait, OK “In sickness and in health…” So if hubby is humpin the Great Dane, mind you that is pretty sick.
“I think that gay people should have an equal opportunity to experience the devastation of divorce.”
Funny. We agree. But the truth is, gay folks experience the devastation of “divorce” all the time. They just dont get the protection or the persecution of the courts.
The pain is still the same.
And Solly we agree on the stupid people part. I dont think the vows should keep you where you dont want to be. But I’m tired of THAT being the stuff that is used against gay folks.
Yup . . . on cue, the reich-wing trots out why Spitzer should resign but their guys . . . uh, not so much.
Still haven’t heard from Hank, outlander, Fleet, Heck, Max, Nathan or AmWay on why Spitzer had to go by Vitter and Craig can stay.
I guess Limbaugh hasn’t told them what to think on this issue yet.
Thanks for maintaining your reputation as a class A republiCON shill, Econ.
Two consenting adults. What else is needed?
“But the truth is, gay folks experience the devastation of “divorce” all the time.”
True enough, they may as well have the “honor” of making it official.
Just curious, why don’t common law marriage laws apply to gays and lesbians?
“ksfarmgrrl” –
Sorry if it seems to you that I obsess on your posts. It’s really not that way. Yours are the more intersting posts and I tend to respond to interesting posts.
When you say:
“So.. the marriage vows for staight folks should be amended to say “’till death do you part, or until one of you changes their mind”?
“And it’s GAY people destroying marriage? hehehehhe.”
I fully agree.
For the life of me, I cannot understand how people’s sexual orientation or (most) appetite translates to anything else in the universe.
I undertand and agree with Conventional Wisdom that some guy who rapes 8-year-olds is a despicable person; but does that taint his ability to work geometry problems?
But politics is so weird.
Sexual preferance is like candy preference. I’ll vote for anyone who likes chocolate and hates licorice because *I* hate licorice and love chocolate!
As if that mattered?
WS, because at “common law”, only members of the opposite sex were recognized as being able to marry. That’s a short answer to your question, but I believe it covers the needed bases.
I’ve a much longer answer, but in the interest of saving time and electrons, won’t post it here.
“I guess Limbaugh hasn’t told them what to think on this issue yet.”
It’s not the right thinkers who cite websites like the you people’s on this blog.
And, I am all for the resignations of all the ones you have named. We don’t need crap from elected officials.
WS
Studds had sex with a male PAGE, an employee.
That is, on its face, stupid!
Everyone knows that you should avoid sexual contact, of any type, with a subordinate.
Also, the Page was 17 at the time the scandal broke. The relationship had gone on for some time.
It was a very stupid thing for Studds to do.
And I also wish that Craig would resign.
It really doesnt matter how often I say it, or how often any other Republican says it.
You lefties will keep saying that we are sticking up for Vitter and Craig no matter how often we say otherwise.
Or you could just all grow up and stop having kittens everytime someone has sex. Sex has nothing whatsoever to do with morality; it is a bodily function and a human desire and what Spitzer did is a crime nowhere in the industrialized world but the USA. How his wife reacts is her business.
Repeat: Consensual sex between or among biological adults is totally harmless, and in most cases, good for all parties involved. The whole country needs to be tied naked to the speaker posts at a drive-in movie and forced to watch porn until they get over it.
“I undertand and agree with Conventional Wisdom that some guy who rapes 8-year-olds is a despicable person; but does that taint his ability to work geometry problems?”
Two words. Consenting adults.
THAT is the difference between gay marriage and “some guy” who rapes 8-year-olds.
BIG difference.
Woof.
“I just don’t understand how any relationship could withstand infidelity.”
I can understand your sentiment. Infidelity is a crushing blow to a marriage. But, it can be overcome if the offending spouse is truly repentent.
I think a hallmark of a strong relationship is the ability to not expect perfection FROM your spouse but to strive to be perfect yourself FOR your spouse. If both parties agree to that policy and stick to it, both will be the happier for it.
The Man Without a Party
By Seton Motley
Ronald Reagan often said “I did not leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me.”
For floundering and foundering New York Governor Eliot Spitzer — a twist on the Gipper’s words. Spitzer didn’t leave the Democratic Party: the Media just didn’t see the need to mention the fact that Spitzer was — at least until noon Wednesday — one of the most powerful Democrats in the nation.
On Monday afternoon, the Big Three Networks (NBC, ABC and CBS) and the Associated Press led the charge of the wall-to-wall coverage of the breaking news that Spitzer was involved with an interstate prostitution ring. And with near unanimity they failed to mention that Spitzer is a Democrat.” Human Events
I had the opportunity to stay a few days at the Mayflower Hotel in DC several years ago. It’s pretty swanky and VERY condusive to a romp in the hay!
I LOVED it.
I heard a rumor that it was where Bill and Monica used to meet.
Regular…that is SO true! I listened to it on NPR all day and was left wondering what party he belonged to. After I heard them report that Republicans were calling for his resignation, I assumed he was a Democrat. I was a litte put out that they never mentioned it, but you could bet the bank if he was a Republican, they would have been shouting that from the rooftops.
“The whole country needs to be tied naked to the speaker posts at a drive-in movie and forced to watch porn until they get over it.”
– Door King –
Well, I see the perverts are out again!! Your perversion level is amazing!! You know, SOME folks just dont WANT to watch PORN, Doork…. get it???
I fully agree.
For the life of me, I cannot understand how people’s sexual orientation or (most) appetite translates to anything else in the universe.
I undertand and agree with Conventional Wisdom that some guy who rapes 8-year-olds is a despicable person; but does that taint his ability to work geometry problems?
Outch, poor choice of words, MH. Yeah, I got what you meant: (1) Most normal private sexual conduct (gay or straight) should not usually be regarded as the public’s business, and (2) even patently despicable conduct (e.g. child rape) isn’t necessarily relevant to one’s job duties.
I heartily agree with the point you were trying to make. But can you see how it might be read as comparing homosexuality to child rape? Since the homophobic movement routinely equates the two, the negative subtext is always there, even when no such comparison is actually made.
Just a heads-up.
P.S. I should probably add that the state’s top official probably shouldn’t be diddling hookers, and an attorney general–particularly one who made a career of busting them– really shouldn’t. In at least the latter case, the connection to one’s job duties is obvious.
“Rage” asks –
“…can you see how it might be read as comparing homosexuality to child rape?”
Perhaps, but only if I squint and twist my head at an odd angle.
The topic was Spitzer’s sexual predilictions. Anybody’s sexual appetites, for that matter. (Between consenting adults, of course, as “ksfarmgrrl” corrected me.)
I may think it odd of Hillary only gets off if Bill wears the BatMan suit and swings on the trapeze, but what’s that got to do with being a Senator or President? Cindy McCain might have fallen for John Sidney the Third after a particularly spicey game of “Warden’s Wife and the Escaped Convict.”
I was in the bar at the Topeka Ramada Inn at a recent Republican Party meeting when one elected official (he was in his cups) bragged that he and his wife had sex every night of the week…between the local news and local sports, during the weather report.
My date said, “Uh… five minutes?”
And the elected official said, “It’s only one woman! How much time does it take?!”
Okay, that’s not perversion by any stretch of the imagination, but it is a bit weird; both doing it that way and bragging about it.
My date contends it’s a window into the elected official’s soul. He’s self-centered, narcissitic, full-of-himself in bed; he’s self-centered, narcissitic, full-of-himself in the Legislature.
My view is, regardless of his sexual habits, the most important facet of his legislative career is that he’s always wrong.
Eliot Spitzer got elected for what he did in office, not for what he did in the bedroom. Spending $80 grand on hookers over the past decade seems really, really strange (Portnoy strange, in fact), but I don’t see how it relates to his abilities as an Attorney General or Governor.
It’s even down to dueling euphemisims. Had Bill Clinton said, “I did not fuc# Monica Lewinsky,” no big deal. And, in the perverse obsession of Kenneth Starr, the ironic reality is that, according to the Special Prosecutor’s definition of terms, Clinton did *not* have “sex” with Monica Lewinsky, but she had sex with him!
It ain’t all about what “is” is, sometimes it’s about what sex is.
As a john, Eliot Spitzer should be charged with whatever the charge is, pay his fine, and maybe be listed on one of those “Sexual Offender” internet databases. So should “Krystin,” whatever her name is.
Final outcome: “Krystin” whatever will get a record deal and Spitzer’s career is over.
Her music didn’t get any better and Spitzer didn’t become any less capable Governor because of what they did that night in the Mayflower Hotel.
Monkey”boy”
The man was aggresively prosecuting an illegal activity and grandstanding about it, while at the same time engaging in that same activity himself.
“one law for thee another for me”
The worst kind of public official, one that places himself above all the commoners. And you don’t have a problem with that?
Please. Someone bookmark “boy”s comment for future reference.
As a john, Eliot Spitzer should be charged with whatever the charge is, pay his fine, and maybe be listed on one of those “Sexual Offender” internet databases. So should “Krystin,” whatever her name is.
I pretty much agree with that, with the exception of the offender registry part (in either case). And you’re right: as a public figure who’s made plenty of enemies among the corrupt class, it may well be that the Bush U.S. attorney will deliberately “work up” the charges (Mann Act, etc.), and hang him out to dry (funny, I recall some issue regarding the hiring of those attorneys).
Ultimately, though, I think arresting consenting adults for private sexual conduct is ridiculous, and has no business being enforced by law.
Also, I can say that “Mr. Clean” in fact did a number of admirable things in cleaning up corruption. As for the prostitution crackdowns, well, I guess that comes with the territory–though I wonder, in his zeal, if his fridge ran out of the milk of human kindness.
And let’s not forget that this young woman will still have to face criminal charges, trial, and (probably) incarceration, no matter what other opportunities the media circus creates. Crying all the way to the bank, I suppose, but let’s not forget what bizarre and stressful this type of instant “fame” (”Look! It’s the governor’s hooker!”) it really is.
There was a time when what a politician did after hours was his own business. This all reminds me of what Queen Vctoria said after finding out what some Members of Parlaiment were doing after hours, near the House of Commons. She issued a dictum, “Do nothing to frighten the horses!”
I don’t think public officials should be above the law. The last time I checked, prostitution was still illegal no matter if a John pays $5 or $5,000 (except for Nevada). Any man that’s forking over the kind of money “number 9″ was for sex, it makes me wonder what the hell he was getting for his money? She spent two hours with him…I like sex as much as anyone…but I’d don’t think I’d spend those kind of bucks for two hours of sex…I’d rather remodel my kitchen.