Campaign advisers for Barack Obama have been urging him to take the gloves off against Hillary Clinton and respond in kind to her down-and-dirty campaigning. But David Brooks of the New York Times warns that doing so could undermine the premise of Obama’s campaign — that people are “hungry for a different kind of politics.†Brooks wrote: “A candidate should never betray the core theory of his campaign, or head down a road that leads to that betrayal. Barack Obama doesn’t have an impressive record of experience or a unique policy profile. New politics is all he’s got. He loses that, and he loses everything. Every day that he looks conventional is a bad day for him.â€
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More helpful advice from Republicans to Democrats. How about cleaning up your own house, first?
Your Dem party should take the lead for once Davis.
Clean up your group first.
Obama staffer resigns after “Hillary is a monster” statements:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8V8O7E80&show_article=1
Econ, you are not allowed to tell the truth in the Democrat party.
Nasty, cold, mean Democrats.
How could anyone possibly even think about calling Hillary a monster?
Oh I see how it works.
Hillary Clinton is a monster.
And Republicans are the party of ideas.
Seems to me Barack is in the wrong party.
This is a very interesting year. Obama comes out of Chicago democratic political machine and is able to run as “new politics!”.
When he gets in a contest with McCain he’ll have to come up with more to run on than ‘I’m-not-as-bad-as-Hillary’.
Barak has to take the high road. But others can take on some “dirtywork”. For example, suppose there was a YouTube vid.
“It’s 3 AM. A phone rings.”
A Hillary look-alike answers.
“Hello. Where are you? You had an accident? You’re not hurt. You #@!$% philanderer! Get your a** home right now.”
What Obama meant by the party of ideas was that in 1980, the Republicans presented the American electorate with a program of (new) ideas, while the Democratic candidate didn’t have any real vision.
He was saying that Democrats needed to become the party of ideas this time around.
He didn’t mean that Reagan had great ideas.
If he meant that, I and millions of other people would be opposing him right now.
Hey, Hank, how’s the shoulder?
You have a point about Sen. Obama and Illinois (Chicago) politics. Not too sure he’s really a part of the “machine”, though. Not too sure he’s not, I hasten to add. Wondering whether he’s being set up as a sacrificial lamb by those who are, however.
Hillary whines about the “disturbing” comment from a Obama staffer calling her a monster.
Yet her staff suggested that Barack was a drug dealer.
Now, was that disturbing or just Hillary being Hillary?
To answer the question in the Thread, Obama should stick to his game plan and not attack a fellow Dem.
What he’s doing now is working. He ended up getting an extra couple of delegates from California in the final analysis–and he won Texas.
Hillary has eked out some “wins” in large states like CA and NY, but by such a small margin that he’s still way ahead because of big wins in places like Georgia and Colorado and Wisconsin.
WS, as I understand this latest, the comment by the Obama staffer was made after Obama had mentioned Clinton not release her tax documents, followed by Hillary’s “Ken Starr” comment.
Re: Mud slinging
Just because a person doesn’t step into the verbal fray, slinging stinging words, it doesn’t mean (s)he is weak. Sometimes taking the high road is better. I’d prefer not to see the typical political banter we’ve had for the past few decades and actually see real concerns spoken about. But that isn’t the way the Republicans like to play the game.
Capn,
I agree. It’s about integrity.
Hank - having lived in the Chicago area I am familiar with the machine. I also know that there is a group of ‘reform Democrats’ who are on the ‘outs’ with the machine - even lower than Republicans.
They are always in the St. Patricks day parade - right bhind the horses!
;)
“To answer the question in the Thread, Obama should stick to his game plan and not attack a fellow Dem.”
I think Obama will continue to take the high road. He fired/accepted the resignation of the staffer that made the monster comment as soon as it was made public - assuming also that it was the first he had heard of it.
Clinton, on the other hand, waited days before disavowing Bob Johnson’s comments suggesting that Barack was selling drugs “in the neighborhood.”
Obama will stick mostly with the high road - Clinton will mostly take the low road and Barack will win the nomination in August.
And he will kick McBush’s butt come November.
It is probably a bad idea for the Clinton team to bring up Ken Starr. What’s next?
“Vote for me. I know how to make money in the cattle market!”
“Vote for me. I can find missing files!”
Hey VT!
Shoulder is doing well. We have a new electro/therapy machine and I have it at home. Haven’t taken my pain pills since Tuesday night. I needed them after the surgeon finished X-raying it again. Cried like a baby!
If you research how Mr Obama got his nomination for the Senate in 2004 you’ll soon realize he is very good at Illinois politics. It is really a fluke that he even got elected to the Senate!
Much of the above is the reason I will likely vote for Obama in the fall election. McCain is BUsh lite, Hillary is McCain Lite. Obama, even though I disagree with a good percentage of his positions, does not have the stench of politics as usual upon him. I would rather see what I at least percieve to be an honest man with which I profoundly disagree in office, than some sob that claims to agree with me, but I wouldn;t trust to tell me the correct time of day. McCain and Hillary are two sides of the same coin, and will tell you anything to get elected, and stay in power. Obama?, I don’t percieve him to be as dirty.
I think Obama needs to sharpen his message a bit for PA - especially on the economy. However I also think he should keep ‘high’ and not let his message degenerate. If he feels a need to attack he should attack McCain.
I have a feeling PA could be crucial (I said that about OH). That is another ‘purple’ state - and I think the super delegates will take heed of the results there and OH.
Also, I think it would be good to see Obama make a proposal to resolve the FL and MI issue. I will fall back to my earlier one - run caucuses for half the votes and allow in the primary results for half. This becomes a sort of olive branch toward Clinton (she gets that half) while giving him a good chance to neutralize that because he does well in a caucus system.
I think that would help him to both win the nomination but also help repair the damage done to the system by FL and MI jumping the gun.
LJ,
I think you echo the feelings of many others. You’ve obviously thought it through. Kudos to you for doing that much.
“allow in the primary results for half”
Obama was not on the ballot in Michigan, so allowing the results for the primary would serve to exclude him - unless, of course, you counted the “none of the above” votes in Michigan as being votes for Obama.
Hank,
Is that electro/therapy machine anything like the little shock zapper (can’t remember the name) that’s sometimes used for back pain? TINS? Or something like that. I was given one in the hospital after a C-Section and kept turning the zap up higher so I could get out faster. But, hey, it helped.
It’s not in the interest of either candidate to get down and dirty in the Democratic primary, because the winner will absolutely need the support of the loser (like I said in another thread, it is quite possible that at this point the winning candidate will not have a choice but to take the losing candidate as a VP, and the refusal of the loser to accept could be a career killer). If it gets nasty, so that the feelings become really hard between the two camps, the Democrats are done.
Let me repeat that. The Democrats are done.
Unlike Mr. Clark upthread, I am not optimistic about November right now because despite what he says, McCain is NOT McBush. The Republican primary is over, McCain can now make his case to the electorate where the vast majority is not sympathetic to Bush. He is already separating himself from GWB. Don’t count on being able to hang Bush on McCain. When it comes to brass tacks, voters know when candidates are pandering to their bases during the primary season, and do not take them as seriously.
Nice post Ben.
I agree. The candidates will need to step up on the Democratic side to help to resolve the Florida and Michigan issues.
In a sense, this is a test of statesmanship over (blind, self mutilating) ambition before the election.
Hey RD,
A TENS unit is basically a $50 aspirin. It merely ‘wears out’ the nerves and the pain subsides. It’s pretty good for chronic pain management but there is no theraputic benefit.
I have a interferential/russian stem/ultra-sound machine that has several theraputic functions.
Hank - I forgot the detail terms of our wager. I know CathCharities gets %50 from one of us but not sure all the steps.
;)
“I have a interferential/russian stem/ultra-sound machine that has several therapeutic functions.”
Hank- You better be careful; if Phil Kline finds out about this you just might be “Grand Jury” material!
Just a word to the wise.
Hey Ben,
I forgot the details too. We made the bet on a Wed or Thur. I sent a check for $150 on that Friday or following Monday.
It was a three part bet that started with Hillary losing Texas I beleive.
What ever. I lost. Any bets I make with a charity as the beneficiary, I pay win or lose.
Hey gster!
I’m not in Kline’s jurisdiction! (and Nola is a friend!)
Hank,
Thanks for straightening out the TINS/TENS name. It’s been over 20 years, so a little fuzzy on the name. ;) As I understood it at the time, it was supposed to block the pain messages to the brain…or something like that.
Hope the “interferential/russion stem/ultra-sound machine” does the trick! Anything’s better than pain pills.
I’m not really using it for the pain, Joyce is doing acupuncture for the pain at night before bedtime.
I’m using the interferential to speed up the bone stitching. Ultrasound to break up the bruising and later I’ll use the Russian stem for muscle rehab.
It’s a new machine and we’re learning how to use it by experimenting on me!
Those units TENS don’t work on me, as I have nerve damage causing my pain, paralysis and numbness.
Wish they did though.
Pain subsided Hank? Makes life a whole lot easier without pain. :)
Hey Regular,
Not much real pain. It’s immobile and every now and then I get a ‘twinge’.
Thursday morning I got a little ‘twinge’ that jrked me out of bed. Scared the hell out of the dogs and Joyce!
From the RudePundit:
“Hillary should just admit that the cool kids won and step down.”
Fine WS, I expect you to start taking the high road in your arguments with Nathan.
“Joyce is doing acupuncture for the pain at night before bedtime.”
Does that work? It looks creepy to me. All those needles. Don’t the needles hurt when they are stuck in?
TENS cause your brain to feel the tens instead of the pain. Since your spinal cord can only allow one sense to be felt at a time (along that nerve), the tens keeps it busy so you can’t feel the pain.
Now that being said, I had a TENS, and I think mine didn’t work right. OF course, I never really knew where I should put it, as my pain is so widespread in that area.
They have that machine at physical therapy that is kindof like tens, and that thing would work. Too bad they’re so expensive. Oh but they do feel wonderful.
I’ve finally gotten a proper diagnosis on my back pain, and the physical therapy proves without a doubt that is what it is. They sure know how to get to exactly what hurts and make it hurt worse.
problem is my back won’t ever be fixed, it can’t be. It can be helped, but I think the solution is going to end up being ablation to the nerves. Kill em so I won’t feel it no more.
Sounds good to me Hank. I figure of the Catholics can do bingo and fireworks stands they will take our ‘tainted’ money! ;)
By the way - buy your fireworks from the Knights stand in Goddard this summer. 167th and Kellogg - SW corner.
Does that work? It looks creepy to me. All those needles. Don’t the needles hurt when they are stuck in?
Yep, nope.
Good on the acupuncture, Hank!
My best friend has migraines…about every week. Acupuncture was the one thing that helped, but her insurance wouldn’t cover it, so it’s shots & meds instead.
PMom,
I fear physical therapy, they hurt me every time I go in. One time early in my treatment, they put weights on my legs - the results being every muscle in my back spasmed all at once from neck down to my butt. It was so painful, I couldn’t even make a sound, so lay on the bed until some one came in and saw that ‘look’ on my face.
I get sort of a fibromyalgia burning, tingling in my legs still. Drives me nuts! Rarely it gets bad enough to make my legs go immobile, knees lock up and get weak. That’s when I go to the docs and get some anti-inflammatories and muscle relaxants to calm things down.
On those days, I can’t even wear a belt, because the skin is sensitive to the touch and aggravates the condition.
But enough about pain…
I too, can hardly stand to be touched, it’s like I’m one big bruise most of the time, in some spots more than others. But sometimes I really have to wonder if Fibromyalgia is all a symptom of everything being out of whack. I screamed today, as I did the first day I was there. And I did have major spasms. But I beleive they are doing the right thing, I won’t get anywhere if I don’t push through it. I can hardly walk right now, she contorted me into positions that must had came straight from the Kama Sutra. My problem is that my pelvis is tilted wrong, and so all of my supporting muscles and ligaments are all distorted, from my mid back to my knees. And that’s been lifelong. When I began doing heavy work, that strained and injured those all to the point where everything is so tight. By the way, the diagnosis I finally have is Sacroiliac Joint Dysfunction. And boy howdy, these people know exactly how to ilicit that pain.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87961802
Thank heavens the MSMedia is starting to get it right on Texas–
Clinton won the primary with 51 percent of the popular vote to Obama’s 47 percent, according to the Associated Press. Those results earned her 65 delegates to Obama’s 61 delegates.
But allocating delegates in the Lone Star State takes a “Texas two-step.” After the polls closed, more than 1 million Texans also attended caucuses, the results of which determine how about one-third of the state’s delegates get awarded.
. . . .
The state Democratic Party estimates that Obama will come out ahead: 37 pledged delegated to Clinton’s 30 delegates. But the official tally of the Texas caucus won’t be ready for months.
Obama should get back to his hope and head in the cloud speeches. Didn’t he claim to keep to the high road. Does he want to get in the trenches with Hillary?
She’s taken a lot of hits over the years and is still STANDING. She’s one tough cookie.
HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT !!!
The caucus system should be BANNED in all the states. Voting should be one vote per person in a PRIMARY. This is FAIR and more people get to participate, especially if the states have early voting. Caucuses sound out-dated. We’re in the 21st century.
There needs to be more uniformity in the rules. Why do some states have different rules? Primaries. Caucuses. Only Democrats can vote. Anyone can vote. It’s ridiculous and confusing. DNC are you listening?
There’s been a suggestion that primaries should be held by dividing the country into 4 regions and each region voting on separate dates. This sounds like a GOOD idea. It would be less costly and less time consuming for the candidates.
Voting should be one vote per person in a PRIMARY.
Voting should be one vote per person across the board, primary or general. If you want to do away with caususes, then do away with the electoral college. :P
mbs - problem is the cost. The Parties can run their own caucuses - I don’t know that they can run a full-fledged primary. Taxpayers would have to foot the bill.
Should the states also run primaries for the Libertarian Party? The Green Party? The Beer Party?
“The Beer Party?”
Shounds like a shomething I could get behind, ossifer.
an irony re: MI and FL. They moved early hoping to become important. Even without this controversy that back-fired. Consider this - think about MI and FL having their primaries March 11 and 18. With Hillary’s resurgence in OH these would have become VERY important.
DUMB!
Friday Feb. 29th:
“Yesterday Todd Spivak of HoustonPress.com reminded us how Obama won his first Illinois election:
He was just 35 when in 1996 he won his first bid for political office. Even many of his staunchest supporters, such as Black, still resent the strong-arm tactics Obama employed to win his seat in the Illinois Legislature.
Obama hired fellow Harvard Law alum and election law expert Thomas Johnson to challenge the nominating petitions of four other candidates, including the popular incumbent, Alice Palmer, a liberal activist who had held the seat for several years, according to an April 2007 Chicago Tribune report.
Obama found enough flaws in the petition sheets — to appear on the ballot, candidates needed 757 signatures from registered voters living within the district — to knock off all the other Democratic contenders. He won the seat unopposed.
“A close examination of Obama’s first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career,” wrote Tribune political reporters David Jackson and Ray Long. “The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it.”
—-
Ok, he did it legally, but Obama has NO room to judge Hillary, if Hillary goes to court over any of the current election disagreements!
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/29/112518/642
When he gets in a contest with McCain he’ll have to come up with more to run on than ‘I’m-not-as-bad-as-Hillary’.
Yes Hank, he’ll have to breath.
It would be nice if Obama’s minister would take the “high road”:
http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/obama_minister_wright/2008/03/06/78440.html
It is easy to see how Rev. Wright would give the Rev. Farakhan an award!
They are both nuts!
Capn, surely you see that the caucus didn’t represent the true views of the people. It’s crystal clear how biased the caucus system is.
“Your Dem party should take the lead for once Davis.
“Clean up your group first.”
Sorry Maxine,
Methinks your party does not want to talk about the path you all have chosen. The only hope you have for a victory in !!/08 is the old man you have chosen. He won’t do it for you, but he is as close as you losers will get.
Sorry, guys, we’ve found a better pizza!
Huh I understand Obama’s wife is now calling American’s sloths.
Sorta like when Barack said folks who can’t afford health care for their kids are irresponsible?
Personally I don’t care what road this guy takes. I would like if he would choose whether he is a Democrat or a Republican.
JR,
Link?
Well I agree with what she said…Americans are mean.
“The article quotes from a speech Mrs. Obama made to a crowd in a South Carolina church in January. Reporter Lauren Collins writes – “Obama begins with a broad assessment of life in America in 2008, and life is not good: we’re a divided country, we’re a country that is ‘just downright mean,’ we are ‘guided by fear,’ we’re a nation of cynics, sloths, and complacents. ‘We have become a nation of struggling folks who are barely making it every day,’ she said, as heads bobbed in the pews. ‘Folks are just jammed up, and it’s gotten worse over my lifetime. And, doggone it, I’m young. Forty-four!’”
No kidding, RD.
Where is the link to that, JR?
I’ve never heard Obama say anything remotely like what you claim he said about children’s health care.
heh. If obama cant take the heat from the Clinton campaign, how is he going to stand up to the mighty right wing wurlitzer?
I WANT a fighter for my party. I WANT a fighter to change the direction of this country and not someone who is “above the fight” with the cons and repubs in congress.
I WANT someone who will win. Not someone who whines about the meanies. I guess appeasement will work for obama about as well as it has for Pelosi and Reid.
NOT!
Go Hillary!
You know, I just went through the quote P_Mom posted above. The quote was from a reporter, i.e. her words in quotes, with Mrs. Obama’s quotes within those. Take a look again. The “sloth” comment was not a direct quote from Mrs. Obama, or at least not in quotes as some of her other words were. (Her quotes within the reporter’s quotes are ‘ and ‘. Correctly done, btw.)
Look it over again. I’ll bold the direct quotes from Mrs. Obama to make it easier. As written, all else would have been summarized.
Reporter Lauren Collins writes – “Obama begins with a broad assessment of life in America in 2008, and life is not good: we’re a divided country, we’re a country that is ‘just downright mean,’ we are ‘guided by fear,’ we’re a nation of cynics, sloths, and complacents. ‘We have become a nation of struggling folks who are barely making it every day,’ she said, as heads bobbed in the pews. ‘Folks are just jammed up, and it’s gotten worse over my lifetime. And, doggone it, I’m young. Forty-four!’”
So what we need is the exact quote of Mrs. Obama’s remarks, not an abridged version by the reporter of what she said. That’s the problem with quotes. People often are misquoted by the way they appear in an article.
And, as a whole, we are a nation of sloths. We ARE lazy. (And you can quote me directly on that. ;) )
I don’t have and cannot find a link.
It was in a debate. Obama said that parents who could not insure their children under his health care plan were irresponsible.
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Thomas Jefferson
OMG RD, you’re right, I can’t believe that I flippin missed that! I’m furious that a reporter would do that in such a manner. That’s downright dirty.
JR
Actually, it was HILLARY who said that she would garnish the wages of those who refuse to buy their own health insurance.
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