Palmer is the one frightening Kansans

palmer“Citizens of the state are demanding we do something because they are frightened. They know we are a sanctuary state,” state Sen. Peggy Palmer, R-Augusta, said during the Senate’s seven hours of debate Wednesday on illegal immigration. “They are coming here and taking our jobs and using our welfare dollars.” Fortunately, the majority of Palmer’s colleagues recognize the truth — that undocumented workers are taking mostly jobs that citizens don’t want; that employers and the state economy need more workers, not fewer; that illegal residents cannot and do not collect welfare; and that this is the federal government’s problem to fix. As for Kansans being “frightened” — if so, it’s because of the fearmongering rhetoric of Palmer and others.

69 Comments

  1. Door King
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    Illegal immigrants help pay grandma’s social security, or would be, if Bush weren’t spending all of their FICA contributions on bombing poor neighborhoods in Barsa.

  2. Tyler Durden
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    I guess the “journalists” have given up “reporting” and investigations for facts. ONe call to the capitol would let any journalist in the State know that the phones are rining off the hooks, and the email boxes are full. The comments are by my small amount of investigation are 90% very angry citizens who are very PO’ed at their elected “leaders”.

    Senator Palmer is on the right side of the law, Kansans.

    Rhonda, is as usual WRONG!

  3. Door King
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    Once more I offer this cut and paste screed:

    IMMIGRATION AND SOCIAL SECURITY….Paul Krugman points out that in the 2008 report of the Social Security Trustees released today the “actuarial balance” of the system is better than it’s been since 1993. Interesting! But how much better?
    Click here for the answer: last year the trustees estimated that Social Security had an overall 75-year deficit of 1.95% of taxable payroll. This year it’s 1.70%. That’s a pretty substantial improvement. What caused it?
    Click here for the answer: Table IV.B9 has only one significant change from 2007: “Methods and programmatic data.” And what might that entail?
    Scroll down for the answer: immigrants. To be specific, better estimates of the taxes and benefits received by illegal immigrants — or, as the trustees refer to them, “other-immigrants”:
    In previous reports, the other-immigrant population was projected using assumed annual numbers of net other immigrants with a static age-sex distribution. For this year’s report, the annual numbers of net other immigrants are projected by explicitly modeling other immigrants and other emigrants separately.
    Translation: instead of just pulling a net number out of a hat, the trustees built a model that estimated the actual demographic characteristics of both immigrants and emigrants. And guess what?
    · Illegal immigrants tend to skew young. This benefits the system.
    · Young people have more children than older people. This benefits the system.
    · Some illegal immigrants pay taxes for a few years and then leave. This benefits the system.
    Bottom line: “This year’s report results in […] a substantial increase in the number of working-age individuals contributing payroll taxes, but a relatively smaller increase in the number of retirement-age individuals receiving benefits in the latter half of the long-range period.” Give or take a bit, it turns out that this shores up the Social Security system to the tune of around $13 billion per year. Thanks, illegal immigrants.

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

  4. Door King
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    And no one is afraid in my little town, at least no one I know of.

  5. Door King
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    Another way for wing nuts to exploit the darker side of humanity.

  6. Door King
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    Did you know that the wichita hockey team is going to be called the wing nuts? Do they realize the connotation?

  7. Regular
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    Hockey Team? I thought it was the baseball team.

  8. Political_mama
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    As a liberal, I also want laws to protect immigrants and kansans. A law to make sure only legal Americans protects not only us, but the immigrants as well.

    I do not want a state where I have to worry about the documentation status of my neighbor. They come legally or they go.

  9. Political_mama
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    Jobs that Kansans don’t want…is that why they voted to keep the 2 something an hour minimum wage? disgusting. Slave labor is NOT acceptable. It is not acceptable to use illegal immigrants to take jobs because someone wants to cheat paying a decent wage.

  10. ANTI
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    It seems Rhonda has never spent time in “little Mexico” (SW Kansas), otherwise her views would be different.

  11. C-lane
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Just because illegal aliens may help in one way does not excuse the fact that they are criminals, thus the illegal part in their titles! We have laws. We (Americans) need to find ways to fix the SS system, and if our elected officials can’t do that then lets get new ones in there.

  12. Door King
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    Sorry, it is the baseball team. A slip.

  13. RustyFord
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Where are all these “criminals” that break into our house and take everything that is near and dear to us, making our state so frightening and unbearable to live in?

    It seems to me that if they are guilty of anything it is raiding our pantry to feed themselves and their families. That is hardly something to be frightened of. Traditionally, real Americans have reached out with a helping hand when they see others that are less fortunate then we are.

    Maybe the best way to help out, both the immigrants and ourselves, would be to extend a hand of friendship. Open up our great state by letting immigrants have the education, social services, and drivers licenses that we who were born here take for granted. Also let them know that these things come with a price and responsibilities, and that they are not exempt from the rest of the laws that we have to live by. Let them know that if they are taken advantage of or underpaid for a job there are places to report their employer, and our fine state will take action to make it right! When employers find out there is no such thing as more compliant, cheaper employees they will hire the most qualified. Right? Isn’t that “letting the economy control itself”, or “letting capitalism work”, as we have heard so many times?

  14. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    Is this the BEST a news reporter can do? “Frightening” the people?

    BS. The PEOPLE ARE MAD AND TIRED OF IT.
    The media has tried it’s best to socialize this issue and be compassionate. So they try to show a humane side. Didn’t work at the federal leve.
    People called, emailed, and wrote their representatives – flooded their offices with messages.

    THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT ILLEGALS AMONGST US.

    ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION:

    The senate passed a watered down version of the illegal immigration bill. They bowed to the pressure from BIG business (and little business) and passed legislation to pat them on the hand with a small fine. Previously, they were going to PULL THE BUSINESS LICENSE/PERMIT for businesses which K-N-O-W-I-N-G-L-Y HIRE ILLEGAL ALIENS.

    The lobby got to them. It is up the the HOUSE now today…….

    Email or preferrably call them at this late date and tell them NOT to knuckle under to lobby groups.

    Otherwise, Kansas will be the refugee state surrounded by states which have ALREADY passed tough illegal immigrant laws.

    If this concerns you: YOU MUST ACT NOW~!

    http://www.kslegislature.org/legsrv-legisportal/redistricting.do

    Rhonda it isn’t ONE representative in the state legislature. Try doing some REAL REPORTING.

    IT’S THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS FROM BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES.

  15. Door King
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Once again, I will offer the theory that immigration/return is a two-way, constantly evolving street that changes due to economic conditions south and north of the border, and in this country. Now then, this flow can be stopped with Draconian laws, and Berlin-like walls, and by filling our prisons even more. But the cost will be economic and drastic everywhere.

    Almost no one can provide a statistic on whether illegal immigration is stable or growing because apparently, no keeps track of illegal (and legal) immigrants who return home.

    Also, you have to remember that millions of U. S. Citizens have gone to Latin America. You also have to remember that “Americans” live from the Terra del Fuego to Point Barrow.

    And again, I will repeat. We have it made in this hemisphere if we WORK TOGETHER. We have the resources and space, the old world has tradition, over population and no resources. The New World (and Africa) can be saved; the old world (Especially China, Pakistan and India) is toast without us.

    So instead of trotting over the globe, kicking Arabic speakers in the butt, why don’t we pay attention to the hemisphere in which we live, and cooperate to improve the lives of everyone together in this half of the globe.

    Every single thing we need, labor, resources, food supplies, energy resources is in our half of the globe. Not only that, we all have Christian traditions, and mutually comphrehensible languages that can be taught in schools on both sides of the border.

    But of course, most people would rather wallow in hate and spew gibberish. That’s why you are called wingnuts.

  16. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    “Open up our great state by letting immigrants have the education, social services, and drivers licenses that we who were born here take for granted”

    RustyFord that IS the robbery we are talking about.

    And you are missing the content on what this issue is all about.

    What part of illegal don’t you understand?
    It is a crime we are dealing with. It is not the old melting pot and it is not an act of compassion.

  17. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    “And again, I will repeat. We have it made in this hemisphere if we WORK TOGETHER.”

    Door King sounds like he is supporting more NAFTA.
    Something to help job growth outside the USA.

    The illegals keep on keeping on coming. So apparently NAFTA didn’t work for them.

    Where is one post on hate? I don’t see any here.
    Where is this a wingnut issue? I see posters from both sides who DO understand what illegal means.

  18. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Example of how nations work together:

    Mexico kicks out their illegal immigrants.
    And then sends their own citizens here, with maps.

  19. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    For months now I’ve read on this blog posters who do not want a fence – but want to punish the businesses who hire illegal aliens. For many of you – that was the solution (and it would all go away).

    Well now I am confused. The republican senate has sided with BIG BUSINESS and have defeated legislation which would do exactly like you wanted them to do. This was not an act of compassion by the republicans. It was an act to keep the slave labor coming for business.

    Another nail in the coffin for the republican party: Siding with the business over the majority of the people.

    It isn’t too late. You can contact your reps today. The Kansas House was supposed to act today (because they are recessing next week).

    Or maybe I have it wrong. Maybe liberals see the inaction by the republican senate – as an act of caring and compassion for illegals and their families. Maybe you agree with them?

  20. ghotiphaze
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    PoliMom, it isn’t slavery. Closer to nouveau fudalism.

  21. Nano
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    For hundreds of years, immigrants have come to this country and became Americans. Now Mexicans come here illegaly and continue to be Mexicans.

    I get tired of the 2 buttons on the card reader in the check-out line.

    English?
    Espanol?

  22. ghotiphaze
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    AmWay, it’s pretty hard to fence in all that coastline. A fence won’t keep many out, and the one’s it’d keep out anyway would be no worry. If you want to stop it, you make it uneconomical for those making the profit on it,

  23. ghotiphaze
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    Personally, I don’t care if they’re here, legally or not. It has no effect on me. Even if there were no illegal immies in the country, there’s more than enough documented unemployed and skid row skuzzies in this country to keep working people’s salaries depressed.

  24. Phantom
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    That seemed to be the consensus on the weblog, stop the profiteering on illegals, and the problem would be self correcting. Apparently, republicans don’t want the problem corrected, better to squander taxpayer dollars on putting up useless obstacles at the border, and say they tried.

  25. Walter Everitt
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    It is people like Peggy Palmer who is working for the people of ks.and not big business she did her best to have a decent immigration bill passed only to be shot down by the gutless senators who paid off by big businesses&lobbyist,Peggy Palmer is not the one who is frightening kansans,but it is our own reps.&senators who refuse to do what the majority of legal kansans want,they only care about lining their pockets,but we will do whatever it takes to remove them from . office,maybe they should go to work in Mexico,and when another illegal has killed another kansan on our highways,can we blame our leaders for giving them drivers licenses&benifits that even legal citizens ca’nt getit is the taxpayer that pays,thank you Peggy Palmer and all tha other senators that stood up for us legal citizens!

  26. Phantom
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    If our corporations pulled back their asian outsourcing and relocated those to Mexico, it would definitely benefit the Mexican economy and keep many more home.

  27. Posted March 28, 2008 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Communisism failed.

    Terrorism is getting old.

    New scary enemy: illegals.

    Republicans won’t exist without someone to hate.

  28. Door King
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    If our corporations pulled back their asian outsourcing and relocated those to Mexico, it would definitely benefit the Mexican economy and keep many more home.

    Right, why are we spending money supporting a system (chinese) which is opposed in almost every aspect to our values. At least those in Latin America for the most part hold the same values.

  29. Phantom
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    They might even buy something from us!

  30. Jed
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    I’m up in north Wichita visiting friends nearly every weekend. While it might be interesting to look at one once, I’ve never seen a green card in my life, and I’m certainly not about to ask anyone I meet there to see theirs. It just doesn’t matter!

  31. Posted March 28, 2008 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Can we get an illegal immigrant to take Palmer’s job? Or is there no taker for the position of delusion, compulsive liar in Topeka?

  32. J M Walker
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Yep, I’m really, really frightened by all those illegal aliens. Why, just last week I thought I saw one. Scared me ta death, I tell ya.

    I am of the opinion people who complain the most about illegal aliens are the same ones who wonder where the real Americans are who would do the job the illegals are doing. They know it certainly ain’t them that would do the job. Hell, no; why that would be beneath their dignity, for what that’s worth.

    I would imagine this problem would be on its way to being solved hadn’t we gone to war in some foreign country over some tinpot dictator.

    Taking the war on terrorism to foreign shores is a commendable idea; it’s too bad Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terrorism on American shores. Afghanistan yes; Iraq about as dumb as it ever got. These American shores are the ones needing protection, and this administration has failed miserably.

  33. Posted March 28, 2008 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    oops, delusional.

  34. Regular
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Heh Jed,

    If you live in Texas, one thing you never want to say and the other thing you never want to do are:

    (1) Yell “comprobación de tarjetas verdes” (Checking Green Cards) in a Kmart.

    (2) Stand in doorway of said Kmart after you yell
    said phrase.

    :D

  35. mrcontroversy
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Tyler Dunderhead,
    You freaking paranoids are REALLY sopping my gravy.
    My fiancee is trying to come to this country LEGALLY. We are obeying ALL the laws.
    But right now, the Black Hole of Nebraska won’t process her visa. Why? Because ICE is spending all their money on a virtual fence that won’t work just to placate the likes of you… and barring a supplemental appropriation that doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in an election year, probably won’t have the money to do WHAT WE PAY THEM TO DO until next October.
    How come your precious Peggy Palmer is opposed to the bill Nile Dillemore sponsored to have a Legislative Post Audit study of how much “illegal aliens” are costing Kansas taxpayers? What, is she afraid of the truth?
    Satisfied? ‘Cause I’m pissed enough for both of us.

  36. Regular
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Move to Mexico Mr. C, it’s cheaper.

  37. Tyler Durden
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    “But right now, the Black Hole of Nebraska won’t process her visa. Why?”

    Nebraska does not process VISAS, that is the federal gov’t. As for your fiance, GOOD FOR YOU, she is going through the legal process, and those that are going around the legal process need to GO HOME, and your fiance IF SHE Married you, will get resident status.

    You are equating “legal entrants” your finace, to ILLEGAL ALIENS who need to GO!

  38. mrcontroversy
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    The federal visa center for this area is in Lincoln.
    The point is the same: a recent study by ICE showed that the biggest reason for immigration law violations was not people coming over illegally… but people who came here legally, but the government took too long processing changes in status.
    The current total included 180,000 Afganis.
    Given the current situation over there, should we just send them back… and let the Taliban do what they will?

  39. Phantom
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    Sure, we have Americans over there so surely it’s safe enough for the natives.

  40. Phantom
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    My wife heard of a person where she works who’s married five vietnamese and quickly divorces them, guess it’s a real money maker!

  41. Phantom
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Well Jm maybe the reason for ‘what it’ worth’ is because illegal labor can get er done much cheaper than what it’s really worth.

  42. mrcontroversy
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    There were lots of offers like that prior to the passage of IMBRA in 2006.

  43. Wiseman
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    What is the real story behind the jobs Americans do not want to do?
    I used to work some of those jobs, my first job was shoveling dry waste matter out of a sewer plant waste collection pond, then I went on to construction and landscaping, most of the times it was seasonal, and time oriented and required physical prowess.
    Because of the environmental conditions (rain) it sometimes can be a race and a hazard to completion.
    Those jobs used to be high paying because of those temporary conditions and it was also because it was what it took to attract the best workers.
    But too many people have become spoiled and educated in other occupations and socially turned into snobs when it comes to physical labor.
    The real truth of illegal immigration is really the story of desperation’s of three kinds and the social ills of disrespecting labor.
    The desperation’s of the employers trying to maintain their business and their competition to the point of a criminal act resulting in the desperation’s of employees trying to survive to put food on the table and compete against a society that demands a higher standard of living (not willing to work for lower wages), or the desperation’s of fleeing from a society that threatens their present standard of living or their lives and being taken advantage of by criminals seeking to control everything.
    219,378 total number of business firms estimated in 2002 in the state of Kansas, the Kansas legislation is acting on the illegal immigration issue on the premises of not wanting to hurt the economics of Kansas but whose economy are they representing?
    How many businesses of that 219,378 total number of business firms in Kansas rely on the labor of illegal immigration to stay in business?

  44. Poster Boy
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    It is interesting that so many say “the majority of Americans” are mad, mean, or fearfull. When was there a vote by the people that show what the majority thinks?

    Just a bunch of spiteful folks who hate anyone who is different, poor, brown, etc.

  45. Don't get Fooled Again
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    I’ve also worked brick cleaning, packing house, and roofing. All except the first used to pay rather well although they’re very physical. Couldn’t do it now, but that doesn’t mean young people today couldn’t or wouldn’t do it if it paid decent.

  46. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    “Just a bunch of spiteful folks who hate anyone who is different, poor, brown, etc.”

    CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll
    “Would you like to see the number of illegal immigrants currently in this country increased, decreased, or remain the same?” Decreased 65% Same 29%
    http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

    NEW YORK — An overwhelming majority of Americans think illegal immigration (search) is a very or somewhat serious problem for the country today, and over two-thirds favor using the United States military to stop illegal immigrants from entering the country, according to the latest FOX News Poll. Almost equal numbers say their concern about illegal immigration is based on homeland security and terrorism as say their concern is about jobs and the economy.
    The poll finds 91 percent think the illegal or undocumented immigration situation in the United States today is a “very” serious (63 percent) or “somewhat” serious (28 percent) problem. Only 5 percent think the problem is “not very” serious and 2 percent “not at all” serious. The new poll shows that 67 percent of Americans favor putting military forces on the borders. Foxnews

    Zogby poll: Americans
    fed up with illegal aliens
    Majority against Bush plan for workers,
    81% think local police should help feds
    WorldNetDaily

    The general public overwhelmingly favors immigration reform. Poll after poll shows that Americans want well-enforced, sensible, and sustainable immigration laws.
    • 89% of Americans think illegal immigration into the U.S. is a problem (30% “extremely serious,” 33% “very serious,” and 26% “somewhat serious.” (Time Magazine, Jan. 2006)
    • 82% think that not enough is being done along the borders to keep illegal immigrants from crossing into the country. (New York Times/CBS May 2007)
    • 68% feel that the number of immigrants who cross the border, whether legal or illegal is “too high”. (Polling Company, Sept. 2006)
    • 62% oppose making it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens of America. (Quinnipiac Univ., Feb. 2006)
    A Rasmussen Report Poll conducted from October 24-25th of 800 likely voters found that:
    • 51% opposed the DREAM Act (a form of amnesty for former and present illegal alien students) concept
    • 68% believe the passage of the bill would encourage more illegal immigration in the future.
    • 71% believe that illegal immigrants should not qualify for in-state tuition rates at colleges and universities.
    • 77 % oppose making drivers’ licenses available to illegal immigrants.
    Federation for American Immigration Reform
    According to the July 6-8, 2007, poll, 25% of Americans say dealing with illegal immigrants already in the country should be given the higher priority and 20% say halting the flow of illegal immigrants should be given the higher priority. But the majority, 53%, say both of these problems should be given the same priority. Gallup

    The poll also asked Americans to specify how important the illegal immigration issue is to them. More than 6 in 10 say the issue is “extremely” or “very” important to them, including 35% who say it is “extremely” important. Twenty-six percent say the issue is somewhat important, and 11% say it is not too or not at all important. Gallup
    Among those who say they are following news of the immigration bill most closely, opposition is at the 60% level. There are only minor differences between Democrats and Republicans in terms of views of the bill. Independents are most likely to be opposed. Opposition to the bill is very high — 61% — among those who are paying very close attention to it, while only 17% of this group favor it. The ratio of opposition to support drops among those who are following news of the bill somewhat closely, and even more so among the few Americans not paying much attention to the bill who have an opinion.

  47. RS
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Congresswoman Nancy Boyda, Serving the 2nd District of Kansas
    Website | Services | Newsroom | For Students | About Nancy

    Results of Illegal Immigration SurveyFrom January 14th to March 13, 2008, my Congressional website hosted a survey on illegal immigration issues. We invited all Kansans in the Second Congressional District to offer their opinions. Below are the results of the survey.Thank you very much for offering your opinion! Your thoughts are invaluable as I work to represent Kansas in Washington.With warm regards, Nancy BoydaMember of Congress(1)

    How concerned are you by illegal immigration into the United States?Answer
    Responses Percentage
    Very concerned 4446 76.0%
    Somewhat concerned 878 15.0%
    Only a little concerned 376 6.4%
    Not concerned at all 148 2.5%
    Totals 5848 100.0%

    (2) Which of the statements below most closely reflects your view of the economic impact of illegal immigration?

    Answer Responses Percentage
    On the whole, illegal immigration is bad for the U.S. economy. Illegal immigrants take jobs away from American citizens and drive down the wages of legal workers. 4210 72.7%

    On the whole, illegal immigration is good for the U.S. economy. Illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans don’t want, and by providing a source of inexpensive labor, they help businesses keep down their labor costs. 871 15.0%

    Neither statement reflects my views. 707 12.2%
    Totals 5788 100.0%

    (3) Which of the statements below most closely reflects your view of the national security impact of illegal immigration?

    Answer Responses Percentage
    Illegal immigration allows foreign citizens to enter the United States without proper documentation, inspections, and authorization. It undermines our national security.
    4957 85.1%

    Illegal immigration has little or no impact on our national security. Relatively few illegal immigrants commit crimes or terrorist acts. 689 11.8%

    Neither statement reflects my views.

    182 3.1%

    Totals 5828 100.0%

    (4) In general, do you support legislation providing a path to legal citizenship for illegal immigrants?

    Answer Responses Percentage
    No 3702 63.7%
    Yes 1801 31.0%
    Other 314 5.4%
    Totals 5817 100.0%

    (5) If you do not support a path to citizenship, which of the statements below most closely reflects your view? (Please feel free to choose more than one.)

    Answer Responses Percentage
    Illegal immigrants broke America’s law when they crossed our borders. Their residency in the United States is unlawful and should not be the basis of a legal path to citizenship.
    3217 31.1%

    A foundation of American justice is that, if you commit a crime, you should be punished. Providing amnesty to illegal immigrants would allow them to escape justice.

    2278 22.0%

    Immigration is bad for America, and amnesty would allow millions of immigrants to stay in the United States indefinitely.

    1304 12.6%

    Across the world, millions of foreign citizens are patiently waiting to legally immigrate into the United States. Allowing amnesty for illegal immigrants would be unfair to these foreign citizens who are playing by the rules.

    3343 32.3%

    None of these statements reflect my views. 199 1.9%

    Totals 10341 100.0%

    (6) If you do support a path to citizenship, which of the statements below most closely reflects your view? (Please feel free to choose more than one.)
    Answer Responses Percentage
    Illegal immigrants who work hard, keep a clean criminal record, and pay a fine deserve the opportunity to become legalized residents. 1643 36.0%

    Illegal immigrants are already living in our society. Providing legal status is just a way of formalizing what is already the case.
    613 13.4%

    Immigration is good for America, and we should support immigrants whether they entered the country legally or illegally.
    230 5.0%

    It would be impractical to deport all of the illegal immigrants currently living in America. The best way forward is to legalize those who are already residing here.
    909 19.9%

    None of these statements reflect my views. 1166 25.6%

    Totals 4561 100.0%

    (7) Do you support an expansion of legal immigration into the United States?
    Answer Responses Percentage No.
    Current levels of legal immigration are about right.

    1877 32.6%

    No. Instead, America should reduce the number of legal immigrants entering the country each year. 1512 26.3%

    Yes. Expanded legal immigration would allow more opportunities for foreign citizens to immigrate legally, increase the economic benefits of immigration, and remove an incentive for illegal immigration.
    1996 34.7%

    None of these statements reflect my views. 367 6.4%

    Totals 5752 100.0%
    (
    8) Do you support a guest worker program that would allow foreign citizens to temporarily live and work in the United States?

    Answer Responses Percentage
    No. A guest worker program would allow foreign citizens to take jobs in the United States that should go to American workers.

    2229 38.9%

    Yes. A guest worker program would provide a valuable source of labor for American businesses, and by allowing more foreign citizens to work in America legally, it would remove an economic incentive for illegal immigration.

    3083 53.8%

    Neither statement reflects my views.
    418 7.3%

    Totals 5730 100.0%

    (9) Do you support legislation to build a fence along the American border with Mexico?

    Answer Responses Percentage
    No, I do not support legislation to build a border fence.

    1307 22.6%

    Yes, I support legislation to build a fence along the entire southern border, no matter what the cost.

    1772 30.6%

    Yes, I support legislation to build a border fence, but in order to keep the cost reasonable, it should be constructed only along the portions of the border that are most vulnerable to illegal immigration.

    725 12.5%

    Yes, I support legislation to construct a “virtual fence,” including cameras and other forms of electronic surveillance, along all or part of the southern border.

    1694 29.2%

    None of these statements reflect my views. 295 5.1%

    Totals 5793 100.0%

    (10) One proposal before Congress to crack down on illegal immigration is to require employers to verify that their employees are residing in the United States legally. Do you support this idea?

    Answer Responses Percentage

    No. Enforcing immigration laws is a job for the United States government, not for private employers. 677 11.6%

    Yes. If employers are held accountable for ensuring that their workers are legal residents, then they will be less likely to hire undocumented workers, making it harder for illegal immigrants to earn a living in America. 4921 84.6%

    Neither statement reflects my views.
    218 3.7%

    Totals 5816 100.0%

    Please Feel Free to Tell a Friend
    E-mail:

    E-mail:

    E-mail:

    About This E-NewsletterThis is an occasional informational e-mail sent to residents of the Kansas Second Congressional District. If you would prefer not to receive future mailings, please visit the “Unsubscribe” link at the top or bottom of this message.This mailing was prepared and sent at taxpayer expense.

  48. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Seventy-two percent (72%) of voters say it is Very Important for “the government to improve its enforcement of the borders and reduce illegal immigration. …
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com

  49. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    “the majority of Americans” are mad, mean, or fearfull.”

    PosterBoy, who said that?

  50. Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    Do something about illegal immigration, but don’t exaggerate the impact or the numbers – that is just fear-mongering.

    They don’t collect welfare, they don’t collect unemployment and they don’t vote.

    And it is not an “invasion.” Illegal immigrants, particularly those from Mexico have been around to decades. Just as there are more of us now, there are more of them.

  51. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    “When asked about New York Gov. Eliot L. Spitzer’s proposal to provide driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants, Clinton initially refused to answer, but her campaign put out a statement the next day saying she does support such as move.

    The moment was more than just a stumble for the Democratic front-runner. It also illustrated the fine line Democrats, who depend heavily on the Hispanic vote and soft-pedal the idea of harsh penalties for people who enter the country illegally, will have to walk on the issue.

    All of the Democratic contenders have embraced some form of “comprehensive reform” — including a failed measure, backed by President Bush, that would have given about 12 million illegal immigrants a path toward legal citizenship. Most of the Republican presidential candidates opposed that legislation and have focused their rhetoric on improving border security.

    Polls showed a majority of Americans supported that legislation, but two-thirds also thought the United States was not doing enough to stem the tide of illegal immigration, according to an ABC News poll taken in September. Among the Democratic presidential candidates, only Connecticut Sen. Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.) broke with Clinton and opposed the driver’s licenses for illegal immigrants.

    According to a CNN poll last month, 76 percent of Americans oppose giving licenses to illegal immigrants, compared with 23 percent who favor it.

    Democracy Corps, a polling group run by Democratic strategists Stan Greenberg and James Carville, put out a memo this week addressing the challenges immigration presents to the party.

    “Voters want control of the borders and workplace and recreating an immigration system that works and oppose driver’s licenses for illegal immigrants, positions supported by two thirds of the country,” said the memo, which was released before the debate. ”

    Washington Post

  52. ghotiphaze
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    An overwhelming majority of Americans think illegal immigration (search) is a very or somewhat serious problem for the country today,

    One could argue the vast numbers of the people who think the earth is 6000 years old, the retro look of dodge trucks and PT Cruisers is cool, Jerry Stringer is Da Bomb!, and Pro Wrestling is true. I bet they’re all the same people, too. Even the wrong can have a vast following, the present administration is a case in point.

  53. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    “They don’t collect welfare, they don’t collect unemployment and they don’t vote.”

    The High Cost of Cheap Labor
    Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget

    Executive Summary

    This study is one of the first to estimate the total impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Most previous studies have focused on the state and local level and have examined only costs or tax payments, but not both. Based on Census Bureau data, this study finds that, when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. We also estimate that, if there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion.

    Among the findings:

    Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

    Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

    With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.

    On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households.

    Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.

    If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.

    Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status — what most illegal aliens would become — can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.

    Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.

    The fact that legal immigrants with few years of schooling are a large fiscal drain does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a net drain — many legal immigrants are highly skilled.

    The vast majority of illegals hold jobs. Thus the fiscal deficit they create for the federal government is not the result of an unwillingness to work.

    Center for Immigration Studies:
    http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

  54. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    “Study: Illegal immigrants increase uninsured numbers
    WASHINGTON (AP) — The increase in the number of people without health insurance has occurred largely because of illegal immigration, a study found.
    Researchers at the RAND Corporation, a non-partisan think tank, analyzed data received from about 2,400 people in Los Angeles County in 2000 and 2001, and applied that information to the nation’s undocumented population at large.

    The number of uninsured adults in the United States grew by about 8.7 million between 1980 and 2000. If the trend for Los Angeles County held true for the rest of the country, about a third of that growth can be attributable to illegal immigrants.”

  55. Jed
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Amway,
    Gee, those numbers aren’t as good as the ones your friends in the KKK got from surveying white people in Alabama in 1957. Better ramp up that rhetoric!

  56. ghotiphaze
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth.

    Weren’t you the one arguing that imigrant-americans winning the nobel prizes were americans?

  57. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    “And it is not an “invasion.” Illegal immigrants, particularly those from Mexico have been around to decades. ”

    Census figures show that 90 percent of illegal immigration comes from Latin America, with 70 percent of the total from Mexico.26 The last decade has witnessed a tidal wave of illegal Mexican immigration. The Center for Immigration Studies noted:

    “Indeed, the last decade saw an unprecedented number of Mexicans cross the U.S. border. Between 1990 and 2000, their number doubled – from 4.2 million to 9.2 million, or 30 percent of the entire foreign-born population in the United States. Within this number, unauthorized Mexicans grew by more than 100 percent – from 2 million to 4.8 million, or 69 percent of all illegal aliens in the United States.”

    United States Census Bureau

  58. RS
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Take a look of the lobbying groups that don’t want this bill passed!

    Kansas Agribusiness Retailers Association
    Kansas Association of Realtors
    Kansas Building Industry Association
    Kansas Chamber
    Kansas Contractors Association
    Kansas Cooperative Council
    Kansas Dairy Association
    Kansas Farm Bureau
    Kansas Grain and Feed Association
    Kansas Livestock Association
    Kansas Manufactured Housing Association
    Kansas – National Federation of Independent Business
    Kansas Restaurant and Hospitality Association
    Kansas Society for Human Resource Management
    Kansas Soybean Commission
    Associated Builders and Contractors — Heart of America Chapter
    Associated General Contractors — Kansas City Chapter
    Associated General Contractors of Kansas Builder’s Association
    Home Builders Association of Greater Kansas City
    Garden City Area Chamber of Commerce
    Greater Topeka Chamber of Commerce
    Leawood Chamber of Commerce
    Lenexa Chamber of Commerce
    Liberal Chamber of Commerce
    Northeast Johnson County Chamber of Commerce
    Ottawa Chamber of Commerce
    Overland Park Chamber of Commerce
    Southwestern Association Travel Industry Association of Kansas
    Wichita Independent Business Association
    Wichita Metro Chamber of Commerce

  59. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Jed,

    The only one ramping anything up is you. I don’t know anyone in the KKK. But go ahead and get personal. It brings out the best in you.

    People are posting without research. They need to do their homework before posting assumptions.

    And I am not mad, fearful, nor a racist.

    I am simple one American who wants respect for the law (by businesses, government agencies, citizens), and enforcement of the laws. I am advocating better border security and stronger enforcement against businesses doing the hiring of slave labor.

    If you want to paint a picture of me, paint the above, but without all the spin.

  60. RS
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Thank you Senators for doing the right thing! (You folks must realize that all these lobbyists will work against these Senators for their re-election bids!!!)

    Jim Barnett, Emporia.
    Les Donovan, Wichita.
    Tim Huelskamp, Fowler.
    Nick Jordan, Shawnee.
    Phil Journey, Haysville.
    Ralph Ostmeyer, Grinnell.
    Peggy Palmer, Augusta.
    Mike Petersen, Wichita.
    Dennis Pyle, Hiawatha.
    Mark Taddiken, Clifton.

    Jim Barone, Frontenac. Democrat
    Mark Gilstrap, Kansas City. Democrat

    The following Senators believe that it is O.K. for Businesses to “Break the Law” by hiring “Illegal Aliens”. They believe that YOU and YOUR FAMILY don’t need protection by securing our borders! They don’t care if your taxes sky rocket to support “Illegal Immigrants”!!!!

    Out of 40 Senators, 28 need to go this year! Join our effort to “Clean the Senate” this election. Encourage someone you know that will STAND AND FIGHT for our rights to run against these 28 wimps!

    Crokansas.com usually supports Conservative Republicans, however it will be better to elect a Democrat that will stand up for their constituents than a Republican that stands for nothing!

    Barbara Allen, Overland Park.

    Pat Apple, Louisburg.

    Karin Brownlee, Olathe.

    Terry Bruce, Hutchinson.

    Pete Brungardt, Salina.

    Jay Scott Emler, Lindsborg.

    Carolyn McGinn, Sedgwick.

    Steve Morris, Hugoton.

    Roger Pine, Lawrence.

    Roger Reitz, Manhattan.

    Derek Schmidt, Independence.

    Vicki Schmidt, Topeka.

    Jean Schodorf, Wichita.

    Ruth Teichman, Stafford.

    Dwayne Umbarger, Thayer.

    John Vratil, Leawood.

    Susan Wagle, Wichita.

    Dennis Wilson, Overland Park.

    David Wysong, Mission Hills.

    Julia Lynn, Olathe.

    Donald Betts, Wichita.

    Marci Francisco, Lawrence.

    Greta Goodwin, Winfield.

    David Haley, Kansas City.

    Anthony Hensley, Topeka.

    Laura Kelly, Topeka.

    Janis Lee, Kensington.

    Chris Steineger, Kansas City.

    Get busy now and find your candidates to replace these 28 Senators!!!

  61. American Way
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    It takes both chambers. Still time to call your representatives in the HOUSE!

  62. RS
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Bill allowing possession of machine guns passes House
    The Associated Press
    TOPEKA, Kan. – Individuals could own machine guns, other fully automatic firearms, sawed-off shotguns and silencers under a bill the House has passed.

    The vote Friday was 105-18.

    The measure is the House’s version of a Senate-passed bill making it a felony to deface or remove serial numbers or other identifying marks on a firearm.

    A House committee wanted to rewrite a state law limiting the possession of silencers, sawed-off shotguns and automatic weapons. In December, the attorney general had issued a legal opinion saying part of the law is so restrictive that only law enforcement agencies can possess silencers – meaning no dealer can have them in Kansas, even to deliver to those agencies.

    In amending the Senate bill, the House committee decided to make it legal for individuals to own such guns. But they would still have to comply with federal laws requiring background checks.

    The House’s change will become an issue when the two chambers negotiate over the final version of the bill.

  63. RS
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    Trooper Fegan,

    I bet you wished you would have not hit the “send”
    button. I have no beef with you, but how do you think
    this email would be perceived by the news media? I
    have a first amendment right, and additionally, if a
    legislator is doing something stupid and scandalous, I
    have EVERY RIGHT as long as it is not threatening, and
    my email was NOT threatening. Besides why is the
    capitol police respopnding to “derogatory emails”, I
    am sure you have other more pressing business to
    attend to likeall the illegal aliens working on Kansas
    Governments Construction sites. I am including my
    email below your email, and I am sending it to several
    media outlets and other immigration law enforcement
    groups. You and the legislator or legislators that
    decided to take this stupid action are going to suffer
    the consequences in the realm of public opinion. Hope
    ya have your asbestos underpants on, be cause it is
    “flame on”.

    I am also asking for the legislators that I am sending
    this to to start an investigation for political
    “strong arm” corrupt tactics in silencing or
    attempting to silence a citizens first amendment
    right. Who the hell do you think you are???
    Legislators using the capitol police to respond to
    “derogatory emails or statments”. Sounds a bunch of
    self centered self important people. THIS IS
    OUTRAGEOUS, and YOUR email response shows just how
    ignorant some of these idiots are!

    I buried a younger brother because he was killed by an
    illegal alien, and I have NO respect for politicians
    that are to damn ignorant to recognize the real impact
    of illegal immigration. Stupid is as stupid does and
    collectively the majority of the Kansas Legislature
    are stupid crooked sellouts. Calling politicians that
    has been a pastime of the ages, it is just this time
    it is correct, applicable, and in context.

    I am assuming that your email was prompted by a
    complaint. If that is a legitimate complaint I awant
    to know the name of the legislator that made it, other
    wise you have NO case or cause for a citizen to
    express their right to free speech. Otherwise, this
    sullies the reputation of the KHP which is way above
    this political bullshit. This is exactly what happens
    when people jump into a corrupt mud pile, it gets on
    everyone.

    Here is a piece of advice for your Trooper Fegan,
    remove yourself from this and tell the legislators
    that if they do not want “derogatory emails”, they
    should not pass stupid laws and take actins contraty
    to the majority of Kansans and AMERICANS!
    Furthermore, “derogatory emsails” are the problem of
    the legislator, threats are another matter altogether.
    IS the KHP endorsing illegal immigration by taking
    this political position in suppression of First
    Amendment rights at the behest of a stupid and
    embarrassed legislators???

    This is pathetic, and shows the isolation and delusion
    that the elected putzes are suffering from.

    You have a complaint or a crime, then by all means
    bring it forth and the NAME OF THE LEGISLATOR that
    made the complaint.

    Otherwise is is just corrupt strongarming, and
    sequestration of freedom of speech.

    Is kansas getting that stupid?

    Dana Brown
    — Brad Fegan wrote:

    > No one has a problem with you expressing your
    > opinion on the current issue but, sending derogatory
    > e-mails to the legislators is a little excessive.
    > Please re-frame from using them. Your cooperation
    > would be appreciated
    >
    >
    >
    > Officer Brad Fegan #1034
    > Capitol Police
    > Troop K KHP
    > 915 Harrison
    > Topeka, KS 66612
    > BFegan@khp.ks.org
    > (785) 296-3420
    >
    >

    ORIGINAL EMAIL:
    Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:39:35 -0700 (PDT)

    Very Sorry Excuse for “Leadership” On Immigration

    Senators and Representatives,

    The Senate had a “VOICE VOTE” at 12:45 AM to decide
    this issue. Clearly, they did not want it on the
    record. All I can ask is “ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR
    FREAKIN’ MINDS???”

    Those that voted in this issue in favor of supporting
    illegal aliens and those illegal businesses that hire
    and employ these illegal aliens are going to get VERY
    uncomfortable, politically speaking and should step
    down now.

    You are despicable, and dishonest. You are obviously
    NOT looking out for AMERICANS and KANSANS!!! By
    voting in favor of non citizens over CITIZEN KANSANS
    that voted you in office, you show ther is NO NEED to
    show you respect, you simply are too stupid to make
    respected judgements, and that process simply escapes
    your thoughts.

    I watched my parents completely break down because
    their youngest son was killed by a DRUNK, UNLICENSED,
    ILLEGAL ALIEN, with NO insurance, registration, and NO
    BUSINESS BEING IN THE COUNTRY. My Brother, Sgt. Jerry
    D. Brown proudly served his country in Desert Storm,
    killed by an illegal alien drunk driver!!! Victimless
    crime my ass!

    IF you think, that this is a great idea, just wait
    until the “word” gets out that Kansas is going this
    way to be a “Sanctuary State”, you will be flooded
    with illegal aliens. You need to read the reports and
    see the construction sites at other border states.
    They are being flooded with cars and trucks with
    Oklahoma, Arizona, Colorado, and S.C. tags.

    Wake up! IF you think that supporting illegal alien
    rights at the expense of your constituents, and the
    reduction of the quality of education of CITIZEN
    CHILDREN, and the reduction and closing of hospitals
    because of unpaid medical bills from mobile illegal
    alienss is the way to go you are singly unqualified to
    be in elected office.

    Facts are this:

    Illegal aliens are more likely to leave unpaid medical
    bills.
    Nationally Illegal aliens have the highest foreclosure
    rate in the country.
    Illegal aliens and those cities that harbor them are
    mecca’s for crime.
    Communities with massive increase in non english
    speaking illegal aliens has decreasing test scores.
    Communities with large illegal alien populations have
    a high rate of hospital closings.
    Communities with high illegal alien populations have
    the largest student to teacher ratios in the country.

    Cities and STATES with STUPID ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES
    that support illegal aliens have problems with
    balancing a budget, and have the lowest favoribility
    ratings.

    80% of Kansas Citizens want this bill and want STRONG
    enforcement, WHY ARE YOU IDIOTS BUCKING THAT TREND?

    Dana Brown

  64. Don't get Fooled Again
    Posted March 28, 2008 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    I don’t see anything derogatory.

  65. Right Angle
    Posted March 29, 2008 at 2:07 am | Permalink

    Good for you RS. I bet he will get some calls.

  66. Right Angle
    Posted March 29, 2008 at 2:07 am | Permalink

    Good for you RS. I bet he will get some calls.

  67. Right Angle
    Posted March 29, 2008 at 2:07 am | Permalink

    Good for you RS. I bet he will get some calls.

  68. RS
    Posted March 29, 2008 at 3:48 am | Permalink

    LANCE KINZER LEGISLATIVE UPDATE

    1) House Passes Weak and Ineffective Immigration Reform Bill.

    On Friday, March 28 the Kansas House passed House Substitute for SB 329. As the author of the original version of this bill I was gravely disappointed by House action to strip this bill of its most meaningful provisions. In voting no I offered the following explanation:

    “Mr. Speaker I vote No on House Substitute for SB 329: As amended this
    bill fails to provide meaningful immigration reform, indeed it is likely to make the situation worse. This bill is drafted in a fashion that ensures its employer sanction provisions, already weak on their face, will never be enforced; they are both practically unworkable and almost certainly preempted by federal law. Furthermore the public benefits restrictions in the amended bill are actually weaker than existing law. For the first time Kansas will be creating a statutory right for unauthorized aliens to receive any and all state financed medical care, no questions asked. This bill is a façade.”

    Adding insult to injury the House again voted against an amendment that would have reversed the current policy of granting in-state tuition to unauthorized aliens. As I noted on the floor this policy violates federal law (8 USC 1623), and creates an incoherent policy where students who obey the law and get a valid student visa pay a higher rate of tuition that those who lack lawful status.

    As a practical matter the chance for meaningful immigration reform in the 2008 session has been lost. That having been said I am committed to continuing the fight for real reform.

  69. Jed
    Posted March 29, 2008 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    Amway,
    “And I am not mad, fearful, nor a racist.
    I am simple one American who wants respect for the law (by businesses, government agencies, citizens), and enforcement of the laws. I am advocating better border security and stronger enforcement against businesses doing the hiring of slave labor.”

    Yeah, yeah, riiight. Back in the ’60’s, the political code words for a segregationist platform were “Law and Order.” The line hasn’t changed, just the people you want to law and order against. You don’t want the status quo upset, because you’re near the top of the heap now and intend to stay there. Ever occur to you that those you’re standing on to be there might not appreciate the status quo as much as you do?

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