WE Blog

I mentioned a couple of days ago, that Congressman Dana Rohrabacher (R) Calf sighted the Bush Administration for its contempt of Congress. Here is the link and a short qoute from the beginning of his speech:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r110:1:./temp/~r110LHVyZu:b0:

ADMINISTRATION’S DISREGARD FOR CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY — (House of Representatives – March 04, 2008)

[Page: H1212] “http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2008_record&page=H1212&position=all”

—
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the Speaker’s announced policy of January 18, 2007, the gentleman from California (Mr. Rohrabacher) is recognized for 60 minutes.
Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Speaker, tonight I will discuss some serious examples of how this administration’s contemptuous disregard for the authority delegated to Congress by the Constitution has impacted on how we do business here in Washington. This bad attitude has consistently manifested itself in a sophomoric resentment of Congress’ constitutional role as an equal branch of government.
Ironically, Congress has proven itself far more willing to cooperate than what Ronald Reagan found during the Cold War. The executive branch, however, seems too insecure to let Congress do its job, as the executive branch sees Congress basically, even with a Republican-controlled majority, as a rival. And they see us as a spoiler rather than as elected representatives of the American people playing a rightful role in establishing policy for our great country. So, unfortunately, we see that in this President of the United States.

Sadly I just found the link is not working. His remarks are several pages, which would not be allowed to be posted here. I am going to post them to the message board and provide a link here.
Sorry for the trouble…

http://forums.kansas.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=kr-kansas_news&msg=14493.1&ctx=1

hopefully this link will work.

Sol in part

WD, I can’t type either :-D

Again I have to point to Iraq. We trained the original cast and crew of al-qaeda. We showed them that guerrilla warfare would slow bleed the Russians to death. Worked like a charm. Now here we are in the same pickle the Russians were. Death by our own hand. Oh but we call it terrorism now, sells more tickets don’tcha know.

LOL Sol did you know there is a letter on file in Washington D.C. from OBL thanking the U.S. for our support in their fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan? He referred to the United States as “a good friend”, oh how times have changed. But point taken, at the time they were simply seen as a tool to jab at the Russians. In hindsight it has happen far to often that we empower some two bit dictator or rogue groups. Without seeing past tomorrow or how it can effect us down the road.

One can’t complain about outsourcing tankers to France, when we outsource troop support to Bush’s pals in the Cayman Islands . . .

Only a CON could write this: “We get forward bases, they get a gravy train pouring money in. Win-win.”

We get saddled with defending the world, and the American taxpayer gets hit for the bill of pumping up foreign economies and making them more competitive and us less competitive.

Brilliant.

No wonder you support Bush. Foul is fair to you people.

We get saddled with defending the world, and the American taxpayer gets hit for the bill of pumping up foreign economies and making them more competitive and us less competitive.

How does this compare to dumping 0.7% GDP to the UN to “fight world poverty?”

If you ask me, both are an insane waste of money.

perfect location from which to project our presence throughout the region.

And just who the phuck do we think we are that we have to project our presence? That is a load of $hit handed down by ego maniacs. This isn’t the 1900’s any more. This is a different world. To think that we need to project our presence goes down with enlarging our empire.

Have any of you ever read “The Fall of the Roman Empire”? Do you not see the similarities?

…added…

• Buy a new puter for Tracy.

:D

“The American Friends Service Committee has analyzed what else besides this misbegotten war America could buy with only one day’s worth of the money we’re spending there. For $720 million we could:
• Provide health coverage for 424,000 children.
• Build 84 brand new schools.
• Buy school lunches for 1.2 million needy kids.
• Provide 6,482 units of affordable housing.
• Pay for renewable-energy electricity in 1.3 million homes.
• Pay the annual salaries of 12,500 new classroom teachers.
• Put 35,000 students through a four-year state college.
Any of these could be had for just one day of war funding. This great country has the money to do what needs to be done – if only our “leaders” stop frittering it away on their ideological crusades.”

None of the things listed are the responsibility of the Federal Government. THe money wouild be better unspent, or used to pay off the national debt.

THe money wouild be better unspent, or used to pay off the national debt.

Or we could use it to impeach both Dubya and Dick.

The Sedgwick County inmate who is hospitalized after being beaten by a Detention Officer was refused regular visits by his family until the court intervened. I think the Sheriff’s office had an interesting comment;

Sheriff’s Maj. Jackie Stuart has said that the Sheriff’s Office was “trying to give him his support system.”

It seems to me that the County FAILED providing a support system, and therefore the court system had to act prudently to intervene in this matter.

Is it kill or be killed or is the savage beating by a Detention Officer warranted? I look forward to the details to be realeased in this case.

Capn, you forgot spending 11 minutes reading my pet goat after learning the country attack as one of Bush’s failings.

Only a CON could write this: “We get forward bases, they get a gravy train pouring money in. Win-win.”

Capt that is not a “CON” statement that is a statement of the reality, the host countries often get a rent paid.
Our service personnel and their dependents add to the local economy. Though with the emphases now being more on air power rather then foot soldiers. Foreword bases are “old School”, our Air force can strike anywhere in the world in short notices. But let us start to pull out of these countries and listen to the wailing and every excuse under the sun from them. Closing our bases around the world might be in our benefit, but it would have a bad effect on the countries economy they are in. They may hate us but love our money, another statement of reality is. If a worst case did occur, these bases do not have the material or man power to be anything but an excuse to go to war. Korea is a good example, last I read we only have about twenty thousand troops still there. And all out assault from N. Korea there would not be enough to even wage a holding action to reinforcements could arrive.

This is why I love the Catholic church, a sister of my Orthodox one. 1) They’re not afraid to admit when they’re wrong and 2)they realize you can’t judge scientific concepts simply because they contradict one’s faith, but only through thoroughly examining the evidence and 3) They realize that faith and science (even evolution) are not irreconcilable.

Four hundred years after it put Galileo on trial for heresy the Vatican is to complete its rehabilitation of the great scientist by erecting a statue of him inside the Vatican walls.

The planned statue is to stand in the Vatican gardens near the apartment in which Galileo was incarcerated while awaiting trial in 1633 for advocating heliocentrism, the Copernican doctrine that the Earth revolves around the Sun.

Nicola Cabibbo, head of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences and a nuclear physicist, said: “The Church wants to close the Galileo affair and reach a definitive understanding not only of his great legacy but also of the relationship between science and faith.”

Professor Cabibbo said that the statue – paid for by private donations – was appropriate because Galileo had been one of the founders of the Lincei Academy, a forerunner of the papal body, in 1603. He had not been tortured or burned at the stake, as many believed, though he was forced to recant by the Inquisition.

The move coincides with a series of celebrations in Rome, Pisa, Florence and Padua in the run-up to next year’s 400th anniversary of Galileo’s development of the telescope. Events include a Vatican conference on Galileo to be attended by 40 international scientists and a re-examination of his trial at an institute in Florence run by the Jesuits, who were among Galileo’s fiercest opponents in the Inquisition.

The celebrations begin today with the opening of an exhibition on Galileo’s telescope entitled “The Instrument Which Changed the World” at the Museum of the History of Science in Florence. The museum, which is undergoing an 8 million (£6 million) renovation, contains many of Galileo’s own scientific instruments.

Paolo Galluzzi, head of the Florence museum, said that “even if Galileo had been wrong, you cannot judge scientific errors in an ecclesisatical court”. Giorgio Ierano, a cultural historian, said: “The wrong done to Galileo is being put right on the territory of his historic enemies. Wherever Galileo is in the afterlife, he must be enjoying this moment.”

In January Pope Benedict XVI called off a visit to Sapienza University, Rome, after staff and students accused him of defending the Inquisition’s condemnation of Galileo. They cited a speech he made at La Sapienza in 1990, while still a cardinal, in which he quoted a description of the trial of Galileo as fair. The Vatican said that the Pope had been misquoted.

The Vatican’s repentance over its treatment of Galileo began in 1979, when John Paul II invited the Church to rethink the trial of Galileo.

Faith in science

— Born in Pisa in 1564, Galileo Galilei built his first telescope in 1609 after a Dutch optician invented a device that made distant objects seem near at hand (at first called the spyglass)

— Galileo used his telescopes to observe the Moon, which he found to be “uneven, rough, full of cavities and prominences”, and then in 1610 Jupiter and its satellites

— His subsequent Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, in which he asserted categorically that the Earth revolved round the Sun, was held to be offensive to Pope Urban VIII and he was ordered to stand trial for heresy in 1633

— His views were found to be “absurd, philosophically false, and formally heretical because expressly contrary to Holy Scriptures”

— He recanted to save his life, and lived under house arrest until his death in 1642

Galileo’s abjuration
“Wishing to remove from the minds of your Eminences and all faithful Christians this vehement suspicion reasonably conceived against me, I abjure with sincere heart and unfeigned faith, I curse and detest the said errors and heresies, and generally all and every error and sect contrary to the Holy Catholic Church. And I swear that for the future I will neither say nor assert in speaking or writing such things as may bring upon me similar suspicion; and if I know any heretic, or one suspected of heresy, I will denounce him to this Holy Office, or to the Inquisitor and Ordinary of the place in which I may be.”

Link to the original article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/co…icle3478943.ece
*****************
That reminds me. Nathan, check your MySpace, I sent you a message :D

Yes, the Catholic Church’s age-old intransigence in the wake of its own crushing failures is tragic. It is an ongoing tragedy in my own life and the lives of many others.

To wit: The Church’s prohibition of so-called “artificial” birth control stems from the middle ages. Not only was monogamous marital sex considered sinful back then, but a young boy in the act of self-abuse was considered worse than a mass murderer.

Go figure. And yet…………….

“Humanae Vitae” – while stultifyingly mistaken on at least one key point, was in many respects beautifully written. Especially when one compares it to its predecessors. Pope Paul spoke of spouses “perfecting one another” and “collaborating with God”. Moreover, he admitted (after centuries of morbid repression) that the sex act had unitive and procreative meanings. Sex, in the very best usage of this great gift, should be regenerative – whether children are conceived or not.

But the sorry saga of Gallileo is instructive here. More than sexual repression, the Church and its heirarchy continue to commit the sin of arrogance. Of disconnect between itself and its faithful. The severity of “Humanae Vitae” is untenable for 90% (perhaps more) of all Catholics.

Yet its words speak of beauty and truth (in some respects). That, in summation, is the tragedy therein.

Farmie,
Tonight’s menu –
Grilled seasoned asparagus.
Fettuccini alfredo (heavy cream, parmesan, Romano, ricotta, fresh roasted garlic)
Stuffed chicken breast (Prosciutto, provolone, parmesan, fresh oregano)

Oh solly, STOP, yer killin’ me!

That sounds SO good.

I think I’m having eggs. The girls have been on a roll again with this nice weather.

My poor poached eggs and I will think of you tonight…

Sol, have you had to shovel the snow off your roof? It’s my understanding that in Maine, where the younger one is in college, there has been that need; Augusta, the state capital, has received over 100 inches of snow this winter. The state government up there has issued a warning to home owners about uninsured roof shovelers, a consumer protection type warning that is similar to that issued in Kansas about roofing companies after a tornado or round of severe storms.

A Chavez/Obama Axis?

Writing two days before his death, Reyes [FARC's "foreign minister"] tells his comrades that “the gringos,” working through Ecuador’s government, are interested “in talking to us on various issues.”

“They say the new president of their country will be (Barack) Obama,” he writes, saying Obama rejects both the Bush administration’s free trade agreement with Colombia and the current military aid program.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/03/019957.php

“The problem we’ve had out in the sticks is the dirt roads. There was a layer of ice about an inch thick after the last ‘thaw’. It melts the snow during the day and then re-freezes at night. Fun stuff.”

oh man, I can relate.

Four wheel drive, $30,000

Survival kit for truck $200

Cell phone bill $100

Eggs for neighbors with tractors $10

Being able to get to and from town without spending the night in a ditch?

Priceless…

they love the economy those soldiers and sailors bring in.

–
Especially the bars and b-girls.

Frankfurt on a payday night. A sight to behold.

If Obama is the Nominee, here’s the perfect alternative candidate for those who won’t vote for Obama:

http://www.baystatebanner.com/issues/2008/03/06/news/local03060812.htm

He spoke to the audience eloquently about his own experiences working as a meat packer in Iowa and Minnesota, where he was part of a groundbreaking union organizing drive at Dakota Premium Foods in St. Paul. He argues that most U.S. corporations — “the bosses,” as he calls them — have no regard for their workers or the products they produce, and claims that both the Democrats and Republicans support “the bosses” in exchange for campaign contributions.

“I am presenting an alternative to the capitalist agendas of Democrats and Republicans,” Calero said. “We think it’s important to defend the interests of workers.”

“Partly-black candidate Obama’

And that is relevant why?

Sol – the rest did as well. I hopw they prosecute the heck out of the butcher in FL. I don’t like but I understand the plea bargain in IN. And, for that matter, I’d like to see proof for “Obama is a fervent supporter of partial-birth abortion and live-birth abortion as methods for raising abortioin mill profits and lowering the black population.”

Of course, Parkay has been a supporter of the cokehead-in-chief so what should i expect?

LOL — Right om, Ben!!

Bush tap dances:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/05/bush-dances-again/

He has finally found his mission.

Parkay is just melted fake butter!!

Phantom, saw that; equity under 50%, IIRC. Combination of devaluation, mortgages, and “home equity lines of credit” I would think.

Phantom, I agree on W P E — But in 1945, President was not Hoover — it was Roosevelt!!

Chas., 1945 refers to the date that the records first were kept. I’ve a hunch that during the latter part of the Hoover years and into the first term, at least, of FDR, the equity numbers are even lower, but as no records were then kept, it’s hard to say.

As to WPE, Franklin Pierce still heads my list. :-)

William Henry Harrison would not be a good choice, given he only lasted a month; not enough time to screw anything up. :-)

Andrew Johnson is an interesting historical figure; I just don’t put him in the running for WPE, even with the impeachment. He was handed a royal mess after Lincoln’s assassination, and, IMHO, did the best he could under the circumstances.

THE PERFECT CANDIDATE:

“Capitalism needs to be abolished and replaced with a more humane organization where human needs come first, before profits,” says (WHO?), who was in Pennsylvania this week to speak with students at Temple University and workers at a Smithfield Foods plant in Allentown.

(Who?) supports shortening the workweek without reducing pay, which he believes would force employers to hire more workers. He would launch a massive public-works program to stimulate job growth. He would implement government-guaranteed health care.

(Who?) also believes that all undocumented workers should be granted immediate and unconditional legalization.

“It’s a way to strengthen the unity of the working class,” he says, adding that he believes that employers use workers’ immigration status to exploit them.

“If immigrant workers no longer fear deportation,” (Who?) says, “they will begin to fight for better wages, for better working conditions.”

In addition to advocating for workers’ and immigrants’ rights, (Who?)supports the immediate withdrawal of American troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Over the next few months, he will campaign across the country, meeting with everyone from factory workers to coal miners.

“The campaign is a vehicle to reinforce efforts by workers to organize themselves,” he says.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080220_The_presidential_candidate_who_cant_become_president.html

Max, just what does Mr. Calero have to do with anything relevant?

Calero’s views look very similar to those of Clinton and Obama.

http://www.themilitant.com/index.shtml

True, Kansas; wonder if there are any genetic traits involved….

And why is this thing so s l o w posting and refreshing today??

Chas., presidential candidate of the Socialist Workers Party.

Hmmm Pierce was also a raging alcoholic!

Not sure if that’s true Regular.

I think the Libs could be very positive about a guy like Calero.

He comes right out and says exactly what Clinton and Obama can only say indirectly most of the time.

Vaughn – on the immigration difference, I think you are right about that one, but the other views line up to a T.

The Socialist Party fights for Progressive changes. Isn’t Hillary calling herself Progressive now?

http://sp-usa.org/

from the SPUSA Statement of Principles

THE SOCIALIST PARTY strives to establish a radical democracy that places people’s lives under their own control – a non-racist, classless, feminist socialist society…

where working people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically-controlled public agencies; where full employment is realized for everyone who wants to work; where workers have the right to form unions freely, and to strike and engage in other forms of job actions; and where the production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few.

We believe socialism and democracy are one and indivisible. The working class is in a key and central position to fight back against the ruling capitalist class and its power.

The working class is the major force worldwide that can lead the way to a socialist future – to a real radical democracy from below.

The Socialist Party fights for progressive changes compatible with a socialist future. We support militant working class struggles and electoral action, independent of the capitalist controlled two-party system, to present socialist alternatives.

We strive for democratic revolutions – radical and fundamental changes in the structure and quality of economic, political, and personal relations – to abolish the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government.

The Socialist Party is a democratic, multi-tendency organization, with structure and practices visible and accessible to all members

Max seems to be the poster boy for this Calero character.

I wonder what tabloid he got his posts from this time.

Are than any cute pictures of Jesus holding baby dinosaurs??

BTW, I took that picture of Jesus holding the baby dinosaur around to my fundamentalist Christian friends and the adults thought it was accurate.

Their children thought it was crazy!

Kansas, he was born in the Canal Zone to citizen parents. While an interesting, at best, academic question (see posts on this last week), it’s not close to the same situation.

Republican koolaid drinkers Chas….this is Kansas after all where everyone knows that the universe is only a few thousand years old!

Vaughn, two of my cousins were born over seas… parents in military, but citizens… ONE was born in a US military facility… The other was born in a German hospital, off base… The one born in the US military facility was automatically considered a US citizen… The other one had to sign some kind of document when he turned 18, that said he chose US citizenship… He was thereafter considered a US citizen from birth.

I presume if McCain was born off base, he signed the necessary paper work at age 18…

Chas., as the Canal Zone was, at the time, some type of U.S. protectorate? not a territory, it is my thought that unlike the cousin born off base in a German hospital who had an option, Sen. McCain would not have had an option to choose between Panamanian citizenship and American citizenship. Just a thought.

VT

You are correct. However, the Constitution is quite clear that only those citizens (at the time of the Constitution’s adoption) born on foreign soil would be considered eligible for the Presidency.

It gives no indication that citizens born on foreign soil AFTER adoption would be considered eligible.

“No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”

Or for:

workers have the right to form unions freely, and to strike and engage in other forms of job actions; and where the production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few.

Or for:

abolish the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government.

Blah blah blah Max.

Phantom, the term “natural born citizen” has not been, to the best of my memory, construed by SCOTUS as to what it means. IMHO, Constitutional Scholar that I am (ho, ho), it means a U.S. citizen by birth, not by naturalization. This would, again IMHO, apply to those “born on foreign soil” of parents (or a parent), citizens of the United States. It would, IMHO again, include those eligible for the option Chas. described, if the choice was made, as under the applicable statutes, etc., such choice “relates back” to birth.

It seems to me that when I looked at this previously, the first Congress passed a bill, enacted into law, which clarified what was meant. That law, again from memory, was subsequently repealed.

Max, so if they don’t buy them, i.e., pay cash to the company or a third party for them, but instead receive shares as part of a stock bonus plan, this is bad?

Exactly my point Vaughn!! Thanks!!

And, Max, what is your position on an ESOP?

Chas, I find your story about your relatives born overseas to be curious.

From my knowledge, the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA’s), dictate how births of American parents will be handled. It doesn’t matter where they born as the child is required to be registered at the American Consulate as an American Citizen.

The only exception is where one the child’s parents is a citizen of the country where the child was born. Only then, can the child request to claim citizenship in the country where it was born.

Max, every Socialist country I can think of has various Classes in their society… I do beleive you have been drinking the funny kool aid again!! I see no basis for you to keep defining Socialist society as Classless!!

Now, if you want to change your definition to Communist, I would agree with you (at least in principal – but not defacto)

“how births of American parents”

should read

“how births to American Military parents”

Looks like Max is having a problem with my challenge… C’mon Max… You know your argument against Socialism is bogus… Why not just admit it??

A strange thought keeps running through my mind… If we are so hot to trot to fight the war on terror, WHY have we never committed troops to Ireland?? There has been LOTS of terrorism there… But, of course, no oil…

Regular, that is as good an explanation as any, given my wife’s year of birth.

I dont recall Afghanistan launching any missiles in our direction either….

Or Granada or Libya either for that matter…

Missiles weren’t the determining criteria in the Afghanistan case, Chas – but you know that don’t you. :D

(Fires up the electric sheep and flaming banana choir)

See, I think the war is all about Oil, and Power, and Control… not about terrorism… And I think BushCo is about to be outed for its shameless war criteria…

See, it was those who NOW support Bush’s war who opposed the incursion into the Terror and Genocide in Bosnia/Herzegovina under Clinton… So, the “war on terror” thing is a made up facade, for Bush to fight for power and control, and, ummmm OIL…

I dunno Chas, maybe the U.S. is terrified of Irishmen.

LOL Clark — my point sort of — they are too much like us to invade them!!

Nathan

How’s your Dad doing?

Ahhh, a Defining Moment!

====================================================
Chas.
Posted March 6, 2008 at 5:00 pm | Permalink
“working people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically-controlled public agencies

workers have the right to form unions freely, and to strike and engage in other forms of job actions; and where the production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few.

The working class is in a key and central position to fight back against the ruling capitalist class and its power. And Progressive Change!”
===============================

MAX — Which of these items do you consider to be UnAmerican, and WHY???
==================================================

1. Chas, workers currently have the right to form a Union in America. Fine.

2. “production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few” Chas, this is the redistribution of wealth taken from those who earn the income, and giving it to those who did NOT earn the income. This is Un-American. This is Socialism.

3. The working class is in a key and central position to fight back against the ruling capitalist class and its power. And Progressive Change!” See #1. The working class can form unions. Today, the working class can sell their labors to the highest bidder for their services. This is called Capitalism.

Now, if you want to give some extraordinary power to the people to FORCE someone to hire them, then that is Un-American.

Chas, I will NEVER hire you, no matter how low your price is.

You didn’t inherit all your stock Max, like all rich Republicans do? :)

So, you want all of the work of all of the workers to benefit the few and rich and powerful??? That is American??? Why shouldnt the workers benefit from the fruits of their labors… That too would be capitalism… UNLESS you believe that only the wealthy and powerful own the ability to make money!!

But Max, THIS is not what you said above >>>>

“owning a company through public agencies means the Government takes over every corporation in America.”

Go back and read your own post, man!!

Mole, Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11 — Stop being deflective!!

Max said:

“working people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically-controlled public agencies”

Max if you say that means government control or ownership of the companies, then HOW can you say at the same time, the “working people own and CONTROL the means of production and distribution”

IF the working people own and control the means of production and distribution… then the Government CANNOT own it as well!! Get real here… at least play on the same field!!

Iraq had over a decade of violating U.N. sanctions, firing on U.S. and allied Aircraft and generally threatening its neighbors, even after the First Gulf War.

Let’s see… Israel has over a hundred U.N. sanctions, going back many years and goes beyond “generally threatening its neighbors”, so that’s two out of three of your criteria. Yet I don’t see us bombing the holy crap out of Israel. In fact, if some people are to be believed, Israel (their gov’t) has a pretty good grip on the U.S. We definitely fund them.

Chas.
Posted March 6, 2008 at 7:35 pm | Permalink
Max said:

“working people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically-controlled public agencies”

Max if you say that means government control or ownership of the companies, then HOW can you say at the same time, the “working people own and CONTROL the means of production and distribution”

IF the working people own and control the means of production and distribution… then the Government CANNOT own it as well!! Get real here… at least play on the same field!!
=================================================

Chas confuseth himself. “I” didn’t say this Chas. The Socialist Party said this and you agreed with it.

The Government IS the People Chas or did you forget.

You either have corporations owned by stockholders ie. directly by the people Chas, or you have the people own corporations (Controlled by the Government) by having indirect ownership of corporations through Government.

Chas, YOU are the one who needs to decide whether you are a Capitalist (ie. Stock Ownership by individuals) or Socialist/Communist (ie. indirect ownership by the people through Government ownership and control.)

I normally do not answer a question with a question, and I certainly will not answer any more of your questions Chas until you answer mine.

In case you forgot, this is the 3rd and last time I ask you:

Max
Posted March 6, 2008 at 7:24 pm | Permalink
It seems Chas cannot rise to the challenge to answer my question, even though I have answered his.

Chas:

Max
Posted March 6, 2008 at 4:47 pm | Permalink
How do the employees get shares in the company Chas, do they buy them?

Say Nathan, I’m taking a break.

Can you continue to observe the self-destruction of Chas while I am away?

And what’s up with your Dad? Is he ok? I hope all is well.

SPUSA says >>>>

“working people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically-controlled public agencies”

MAX — you say that this means government ownership and control… HOW??? if the “working people own and control the means of production and distribution” HOW can the government own it as well??? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth!!

Nathan, what was the nationality of those hijackers on 9/11?? It wasnt Afghani… or Iraqi… or Iranian… They were Saudi’s…. When did we invade Saudi Arabia as a counter offensive for 9/11?? When did Afghanistan attack US??? We invaded there, looking for Bin Ladin, the man we helped when he was fighting against the Soviets!! I really wish you guys would stop trying to rewrite history!!

By the way, how is that picture of Jesus with the baby dinosaur doing??? ROFL!!

Please remember Max…. The workers/employees themselves can be stockholders too!! And they dont have to be in a 401K or pension plan either!!

Max — # 2 above says “production of society” — NOT production of the corporation… Please try not to confuse the two like that… it doesnt look good!!

Even our Constitution speaks of the benefit of the “Common Good” — unless you want to argue that the Constitution is also Socialist!!

Max, I have been trying for a very long time to get you to understand that the fear mongering you do on this blog is a fear of a kind of Communism… NOT Socialism…

There are MANY nations that are socialistic, and people do quite well living in them… And last I looked, we have a whole lot more poverty here than in MANY socialist nations!!

AMEN Ben!! Ditto that!!

Answer: Oil= Power=Money

RD — Wasnt trying to contradict you from earlier… just that sometimes I strongly feel you need to have power before you can have money… :-)

We bombed them back up to the stone age.

Then why do they have cell phones?

P_Mom,

I believe there was a post a day or two ago about McCain mentioning that the CDC had said the mercury in immunizations had caused autism. Larry’s a tad late. ;)

#
RD
Posted March 6, 2008 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

There ya go, Nathan. Our reason for attacking Afghanistan. Now where does Iraq fit into that? And, please, please don’t use the tried and proven false garbage about terrorist camps in Iraq. Please be more creative.

Chas.,

It’s very, very simple.
OIL=MONEY=POWER
————————-

Or,

Iraq had violated more than a decade of U.N. Sanctions, fire constantly at our aircraft in the no-fly zone, was making illegal trades, was re-gearing for war with illegal parts and equipment supplied by Germany, France and etc.

Iraq had violated more than a decade of U.N. Sanctions, fire constantly at our aircraft in the no-fly zone, was making illegal trades, was re-gearing for war with illegal parts and equipment supplied by Germany, France and etc.

Weak, at best, Regular, but makes for a good excuse. And at the time, it worked. Now? Not so much.

Weak eh?

I guess preparing for War, shooting at Allied Aircraft is trivial.

Silly me, guess the lessons of WWI and WWII were not learned.

Chas,

Please take note, that you threw the first stone in this thread.

Do you really want me to go down the road where I point out how you are not a Christian? So why start with your crap when you know you will cry as soon as I throw it back at you?

Oh yea, 70% of Americans want us OUT of Iraq!!

Isnt there something about us believing in majority rules in this country??

Ben,

As a man of reason, would you agree that people change?

Yes, we all know that at one point in time we aided Bin Laden and his types to fight the soviets.

However, that doesn’t mean we continued to support him when he started his terrorism and training terrorists.

There is a huge disconnect between the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and what Bin Laden did later.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Yet you sit here saying the crap you do.

Chas,

Nearly 100% of us want out of Iraq.

The argument is about how to do that and over what amount of time.

You show me where 70% of the people agree on those sepcifics and you might have a point.

Until then, try to do more than push petty polls.

The difference between Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan was that Saudi Arabia is helping us in fighting the terrorists and continues to be an ally.

Simply because the terrorists came from Saudi Arabia, doesn’t inturn indict the country in aiding and funding them.

Show me your proof of the Nation of Saudi Arabia backing terrorist attacks and then we can start talking.

“Not one – unless they were fake claiming to be one.”

Reg time to back off a little. Can’t prove it so don’t post it.

You’re right Hud,
…tired and cranky..off to bed.

Nope… just stating a fact… Sorry if you see it as judgmental… No names mentioned either!! :-)

Chas,

Keep in mind, you started this. For all future occasions where you are feeling a bit froggy and want to open that door to religion, keep in mind that I will step right through it.

So keep your snide comments about faith directed towards me to your self and I won’t waste time questioning your faith.

Sorry, for the life of me I don’t understand why my dads name will randomly pop up when I post…

That was me.

“By the way, how is that picture of Jesus with the baby dinosaur doing??? ROFL!!”

Now I am confused Chas. since the above was not a “snide comment”, just what did you mean by this statement?

Jon Stewart is ON FIRE! tonight.

He’s showing clips of Candidate Bush complaining of Clinton having “no plan” regarding energy.

Then he shows the “gas crisis of 2000″ with prices at 99 cents a gallon . . .

we always said once Bush took office, we’d give him enough rope to hang himself with. Heck he took the platform down with him.

So…

Why are you liberals complaining about the cost of Gasoline anyhow?

Of course I have a point.

The Liberals consistently oppose any form of expanding our oil development and you and others do nothing but preach conservation.

So why would you complain about the cost of Gasoline?

How many years have liberals led the way in Congress to raise the tax on Gasonline?

I figured you guys would wan’t the prices to get so unaffordable that people would demand change to better vehicles and more public transportation.

That is the stuff JR is always preaching.

So how exactly do you think the price of Gasoline will go down when you oppose more drilling, more refining, and anything but conservation.

When we go to war for oil, you cry about going to war for oil.

When we are allies with countries like Saudi Arabia, because of oil, you cry about that too.

So, just how exactly do you think you are going to get cheap gas?

WS Clark,

You complain about rising gas prices effecting your budget?

Well, why don’t you just drive less? Car pool? Go to the grocery store one less time a month?

What about practicing all those things you preach?

Shouldn’t that help you out any?

WS Clark,

Sounds like you got everything under control then.

So why are you complaining about the cost of gasoline?

High gasoline prices even effect people like me… Chevy Metro, 3 cyl. 5-speed… and 48 MPG… Still costs me $3.16 per gallon!!

WS Clark,

I would like to drill in many places.

The real question here is:

Where do you support drilling if anywhere at all?

WS Clark,

If you oppose almost everything which would reduce the price of gasoline, just exactly how do you think the price is going to come down?

Or are do you believe like Hilary does that all you have to do is talk to them guys at OPEC and then all things will be better?

So tell me Chas…

How do you think the price of Gasoline will go down?

JR,

Sorry, I don’t support a government take over of the oil industry JR.

I am not exactly sure how on earth you think that is going to reduce the cost of gasoline either.

Unless you want to do away with the entire private market.

Perhaps you do. You seem to support Daddy governmnet taking care of every aspect of your life.

“Or are do you believe like Hilary does that all you have to do is talk to them guys at OPEC and then all things will be better?”

No, that is what George W Bush said during the 2000 campaign.

“If you oppose almost everything which would reduce the price of gasoline, just exactly how do you think the price is going to come down?”

Supply and demand, the basics of economics – reduce the demand by conserving.

Easy math, right?

So where do you want to drill, Price?

I wonder whatever happened to all of that Iraqi oil that was supposed to pay for the War costs?? As well as find its way into our oil markets in the States… Guess that was all BushCo propaganda too… LOL

I’ve never lived in government housing Nathan.

Can you claim the same?

I’ve never been on food stamps and I recieve no government pension or assistance.

And you?

“So where do you want to drill, Price?”

Eh, PRICE, got an answer or are you just spewing again?

WS Clark,

Oh my bad. I figured that since you were skipping my questions we were past the phase of actually trying to respond to each others questions.

=======> WS CLARK WS CLARK WS CLARK WS CLARK <========

THIS POST IS FOR WS CLARK

Oh my bad. I figured that since you were skipping my questions we were past the phase of actually trying to respond to each others questions.

Who provided your health insurance when you were a child Nathan?

The high price of oil couldn’t have anything to do with speculators, the shrinking dollar, and the need for oil men and refineries to make more money would it?

Don’t we get the biggest percentage of our oil from Canada? If so, why do we kiss Saudi…cheeks?

Just askin’…

History Channel — GANGS in the military… on now!!

Well, time to get rid of this fever… Sooo…

Good night; Good luck; and God Bless;
Whatever you conceive God to be!!

Blessings All!!

Oh what a tangled web they weave…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080307/ap_on_go_pr_wh/white_house_e_mail_4

News just in:

As many more Democrats jump on the bandwagon for conceal and carry for personal protection, it has been reported that “foot injuries” from shooting themselves in the foot has increased ten-fold.

Oh wait, that was the Michigan/Florida delegate story.

Sorry, I confused the news of the two stories. :D