Just a few more things I’d like to share regarding this latest, not-very-greatest flu epidemic that’s waylaid our fair city this winter.
If you are fortunate enough to receive a narcotic (i.e., opioid) cough syrup (i.e., if you’re sick enough to warrant re-writing your will) - just a word of caution:
Imbibing opiates while you’ve got the flu is a little dicey at first dose. It’s one thing to take these elixirs if you’ve got a back injury - and there’s no flu to be had. But go easy on the cough syrup on the first day. I took my prescribed, two doses (in the exact amount prescribed) about four hours apart on the first day. That was probably unwise, because I awoke the next morning with a massive, mandela drug interaction (I’m on three other meds as well).
If you see the doctor mid-day, don’t try to take two doses of the cough syrup - just take the first dose at night. On the next and subsequent days, take one in the morning and the other at night - spaced far enough apart to avoid any icky-awful episodes.
One can only hope that next winter’s flu season won’t be as bad - because this year has s–ked sardine sarcophagus.
I’m sure ol’ Fast-Buck-Freddie Phelps would say it’s gawd’s way of punishing us godless heathens for our weekid-pedia-esque ways. I only wish I’d saved all my germs, packed ‘em in a Fed Ex box, and shipped ‘em on over to Topeka.
Isn’t it great to see the U.S. govt. decsion to buy European is enriching EADS shareholders and decimating boeing and spirit (as well as other main suppliers) shareholders. That’s what America is all about, put the other guy first!
That topic has been on my mind all weekend. Without trying to sound alarmist, that decision (not ours) was as close to treason (outside of bombing us) as our military could get. But then again that’s just my opinion.
But we need to get back to knowing that the U.S. Government is US. And I want to take it back from these devils. that so-called revolt that the hippies did…nothing. Pretty soon…
Blame Boeing for the loss of the tanker contract. They have had issues of their own creation with their engineers and labor for years. Too busy hunting for another dime to squeeze, they got out R&D’d. But they won’t learn anything from it.
Maybe it’s our way of rewarding the French for electing a USA friendly president —- we almost gave our ports to Dubai didn’t we —- I wonder why the other big plane manufacturers (Lockheed ?/ ) didn’t bid the job —-
Ken I can not swear to it, but I think I heard something about Lockheed did put a bid in.
Contrary to the prevailing mindset, manufacturing is the heart of any strong economy.
This country took a wrong turn years ago and we are paying for it now. The lopsided trade agreements, the moving of manufacturing over seas and the over regulating of business has cause the lost of our power within the world. The United States slipped behind while holding to a false premise that somehow just because it was American business that it was the best. It has become like loaning money to a drunk brother, just because he is kin does not mean it is true he will pay you back. Nor just because it is an American company does it mean you will get the best investment.
It’s all water under the bridge now boys. May the best man won. Maybe if Boeing hadn’t had their hands in the air force cookie jar, trying to bribe their way into contracts, things might have been different. The deal is over but apparently as reflected in the crying still going on the Weblog is correct - it has been a bitter pill to swallow.
But look on the bright side. Franch has socialized healthcare, rated as one of the best in the world. The government also owns the utilities and is much closer to energy independence than we will ever dream of. Maybe they will build some nuclear power plants in America next.
Once again we see the high cost of benefits play an important part in the awarding of another contract. Take the blinders off. When an American corporation has to factor in higher wages and benefits cost then their overhead will be higher. Always has always will be.
Do we want all of the corp. taxes we would have collected from Boeing now going to build the French infrastructure while our own goes untended? Great move and if we allow it to happen then we deserve what we get. Thirty years of propping up the French economy - thirty years of seeing more jobs go over seas - thirty years of watching out own cost of living go up. Your choice. If you don’t want this - flood every senator and congressman that has anything to do with this decision with emails, phone calls, letters whatever. Shut down the phone banks. We have the power to change this but we have to act now.
“If you don’t want what is best for our men and women in uniform - if you don’t want the best equipement to win in combat - if you want an inferior product for the defense of this nation -
“Move ten battalions to the border with Colombian immediately,” he said to his defense minister. “We don’t want war, but we are not going to allow the North American empire, which is their master, and their puppy-dog President Uribe and the Colombian oligarchy to come divide us, to weaken us. We are not going to allow it.”
The Venezuelan president then gave orders to his foreign minister to close the Venezuelan embassy in Bogota and withdraw all the officials that work there, bringing relations between the countries to their lowest point in recent history.
Chavez sharply criticized Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, accusing him of leading a “criminal” government, and warned the Colombian leader that any kind of incursion into Venezuelan territory on the part of the Colombian military would be a cause for war between the two countries.
THAT’S a great attitude ksgrm! Absolutely the right thing to say and what we need to do! Thanks for understanding love of country and your countrymen and women.
Good business ain’t always “about the bottom line”.
AMway what do you base your opinion on? Airbus has never built a tanker. Their own planes the 350 have a very high ‘maintenance required’ record. Just because they are foreign makes them better. In what way?
It is this attitude that will doom our country to mediocrity.
“Although Airbuses have been involved in a number of major crashes - 11 in 12 years with the loss of more than 1,400 lives”
Is this the reliabile plane you were talking about. This is the plane that dropped an engine into a NY neighborhood while taking off from JFK a few year ago. Major cracks in the structure were found.
This is the best plane for our military because????
It is never about “the best” for our men and women.
It is about the best feasible equipment.
There are certainly a multitude of things which would be the “best” for our men and women, but trying to field a military with over 1 million men and women in it would be insane.
Kgrm, good grief do you want me to repost from the thread dedicated to this subject? Go back and read the facts. You have just posted two items out of dozens and with that you have the wisdom to know what is best for America’s military defense?
I’m sure every time, every town in America looses a military contract the thought process is the same:
Because it is made here, it is better than there.
That doesn’t hold any intelligent information, or any observation or evaluation of facts.
Amway I am indeed a business woman. I recognize that the bottom line isn’t necessarily the final decision maker. I have nothing to do with the aerospace industry other than residing in Wichita. But as an American I see a very bad decision made by our politicians and AF bigwigs.
We have a standard of living in this country we have become comfortable with. A decision like this will help drive that down. Do we want American jobs to allow our blue collar workers to have a good standard of living or do we want to help build the EURO? You decide.
If everyone would just step back and take off their blinders - our focus on Boeing Wichita it might add a little better perspective on this for you.
Our DoD is tasked with making decisions which will affect the war-fighting ability of our armed forces. Much of that, and probably most of it, involves projecting force deep into lands beyond a US controlled airstrip.
These tankers exist to project air power. Air power in support of our combat forces: our young men and women on the ground for much of it.
Do you want the best for them? What product will provide the greater ability to project our air power and succeed?
That is the real picture, which unfortunately is not what I’m reading in most posts above.
This decision was YEARS in the making. The military considered the political forces on them - had to know the impact and pressure on them to “buy American”. But despite that they picked a product they felt was best for winning in combat.
Again, take the blinders off. The Northrop-EADS tanker was ranked superior in 4 of 5 categories.
Northrop’s product is bigger, newer, has GREATER CAPACITY IN FUEL, PASSENGERS, AND CARGO.
Years in the planning, and years of evaluation.
Our men and women serving do NOT need another political decision. They need the bestest product money can buy.
Similiar to the MRAP vehicles in Iraq, which we all attacked the pentegon and Bush for NOT buying and rushing to our troops for IED protection. Do you want the best, or politically best?
AMway I did a very quick search to show you Airbus doesn’t have a good reliability rating. You need to do your own research. You made a bold statement that this was the best tanker for our military. I asked you based on what? You attack my statement with backup but still have nothing to back up your statement.
AMway you are defending a prototype. It hasn’t even been built yet but you are lauding it as if it is a fait accompli. Don’t you see the ironey of your own statement?
Doesn’t matter what I decide. Doesn’t matter what you decide.
It matters what the DoD HAS decided in order to win in combat.
Now, I will NEVER argue against getting some of that
MONEY for Wichita. I would be on the wrong blog for that wouldn’t I?
To hell with fair competition and free enterprise - WE WANT IT ALL.
Just like I own a Honda for reliability. It will outlive a Chevy by more than twice the mileage and I get 44 MPG! Proven reliability. Chevy going broke? Not my concern.
Our nation deserves the best. You will only ensure further poor performance and reliability if this is overturned.
But I’m easy. It is Wichita, Kansas which benefits.
Greed is good!
Northrop’s product is bigger, newer, has GREATER CAPACITY IN FUEL, PASSENGERS, AND CARGO.
Carries more fuel, allowing to refuel more jets and allow longer TOT (Time over target). Carries more passengers (less flights arrive on time), and cargo (beans, bandages, badguys, bullets).
Nathan I wouldn’t even give the DoD that much credit. Looking at it from a laymans prespective - Why accounce this late on a Friday night when the most undesireable news items are always released. Why not give the criteria used to make this decision? What items made Airbus superior? Reliability - when we know engines and landing gear have fallen off? Capacity - when the entire plane hasn’t been built yet and know changes will be made to the plans?
AMway I am just glad that they are meeting on this this morning. I have sent emails and made phone calls. I can tell you that when the amnesty issue was announced that the number of contacts the pols received made them reverse that decision two days later. I have a network of people I can start something rolling with and it goes nation wide. If you think all of the concern is in Wichita you are sadly mistaken.
The people - you and me - do have the power to change the power wonks in DC if we use it.
“Sundown on the Union”
Well, my shoes, they come from Singapore,
My flashlight’s from Taiwan,
My tablecloth’s from Malaysia,
My belt buckle’s from the Amazon.
You know, this shirt I wear comes from the Philippines
And the car I drive is a Chevrolet,
It was put together down in Argentina
By a guy makin’ thirty cents a day.
Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the U.S.A.
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.
Well, this silk dress is from Hong Kong
And the pearls are from Japan.
Well, the dog collar’s from India
And the flower pot’s from Pakistan.
All the furniture, it says “Made in Brazil”
Where a woman, she slaved for sure
Bringin’ home thirty cents a day to a family of twelve,
You know, that’s a lot of money to her.
Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the U.S.A.
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.
Well, you know, lots of people complainin’ that there is no work.
I say, “Why you say that for
When nothin’ you got is U.S.-made?”
They don’t make nothin’ here no more,
You know, capitalism is above the law.
It say, “It don’t count ‘less it sells.”
When it costs too much to build it at home
You just build it cheaper someplace else.
Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the U.S.A.
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.
Well, the job that you used to have,
They gave it to somebody down in El Salvador.
The unions are big business, friend,
And they’re goin’ out like a dinosaur.
They used to grow food in Kansas
Now they want to grow it on the moon and eat it raw.
I can see the day coming when even your home garden
Is gonna be against the law.
Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the U.S.A.
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.
Democracy don’t rule the world,
You’d better get that in your head.
This world is ruled by violence
But I guess that’s better left unsaid.
From Broadway to the Milky Way,
That’s a lot of territory indeed
And a man’s gonna do what he has to do
When he’s got a hungry mouth to feed.
Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the U.S.A.
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.
-Bob Dylan
AMway I am still waiting for that proof that Airbus is better. If that is so post the proof. If not quit making that claim with nothing to support it. And by the way this won’t be the first mistake made by the bigwigs - not the fighting men and women - at the DoD. Remember the $600 toilet seats, how about the $500 hammers?
Nothing. That was it. That was what I said. It was deleted and they let Doug post over and over again about me loving to kill people, calling me crazy, and calling me a liar.
I think it’s quite clear, it’s like telling someone in a bar to meet them in a back alley. It’s either for gay sex or for a fist fight. Nathan is a very violent person and has threatened others in the past, not as bad as the one conservative who threatened to put a bullet in my head. It’s the authoritarian mentality.
I think I’ll stop posting for today as I don’t need people like Nathan threatening people like WS Clark. Who knows when he’ll deal his fundy rage upon others. His mommy should suspend his AOL account until he learns to grow up.
It irritated me that of all the posts to delete, they delete mine. It was not a threat in any way at all and was hardly any more insulting that half the crap we had already said.
All it did was feed Doug so he could go on and on calling me names and saying things about me which are not true and far more than simple name calling.
Saying I like to kill people, that I am violent, and that I threatened you are all very seriousl things.
It annoyed me that those stood while my post was deleted.
I apologize for overreacting, but it did get me upset that all the Editors ultimately did was feed Doug.
Now it appears as if the things he said have been and are being deleted.
Pmom the STD’s protections argument is a well accepted one in the medical field. Things like warts and other external diseases are not affected by a condom.
Your argument about the expansion of Alexa’s law doesn’t have legs. You are trying to minimize proposed protection for the fetus from illegal drugs and alcohol not the things you mentioned. Eating to many cheeseburgers, sitting on a foam cushion - give me a break.
Ok, say that it doesn’t offer protection for genital warts, but that’s not 90% of vd. It still offers protection against many many others.
Yes my argument about the expansion of alexa’s law IS valid. From me taking a half a glass of wine at dinner while pregnant one time..that could be grounds for charging me even though not a doc in the world would agree that one half glass of wine during pregnancy is harmful.
I smoked during pregnancy, and if I was on the fence about abortion and knew I couldn’t stop smoking…where do you think I’d end up? In the abortion clinic or in jail?
Same argument for drugs. By the way, the worst withdrawl in infants doesn’t come from street drugs, but rather women who took legally prescribed drugs from their doctors.
It is basically making any woman who has a miscarriage up for scrutiny on what she did to cause it. And that aint right.
I was showing how far the argument could go. If a woman is diabetic and doesn’t control her diet while pregnant, you don’t think they could use this law against her? Come on. Fetus fanatics have no interest in the woman and her life.
If was a culmination of you, Doug, and myself who did.
I take my fair share of the blame. I shouldn’t allow myself to get sucked into the same old back and forth crap with you. Then throw Doug into the mix and that doesn’t help anything.
So, for my part, I apologize. I will do my best from here on out to simply avoid anything other than commenting on the topic and refrain from the back and forth with you.
How long would McCain be in office before he withdrew the WTO complaint against Airbus subsidies? Kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth to file charges of unfair trade against a company and then turn around and buy their plane over the competition, don’t you think?
Airbus does not have a proven refueling plane. When Europe wanted a Military transport, they didn’t buy American- they funded he development of their own. When Spirit tried to buy a couple of spun off airbus factories, the Europeans said they would not allow it.
Who’s the sucker?
Here’s where I’m coming from. Goals of Christians are to lead people to Christ. If I show hatred and contempt towards one of the most vulnerable of people, pregnant women, then I would never succeed in God’s mission.
The Pro-Abortionists are not the ones that I can reach. However, I can reach the bewildered and scared female seeking to find a solution to her answers or thinks she is finding a solution.
Are Tiller and Pro-Activists contemptible before God? Yes, of course. However, it is God’s province to find them with contempt, not mine. To fill my heart with hatred towards someone, consumes my being and God’s purpose. God doesn’t ask for soldiers of equal contempt to deal with others of contempt. God asks for those who will listen, tend matters with mercy and understanding.
I cannot attract those I seek to help, if I angrily yell at them with clenched fist and words of contempt and spite.
It’s the human beings we have to help, not the Abortion issue. I think sometimes that is forgotten. An issue has no soul to be saved or condemned, it is a many horned demon waiting to consume us by our weaknesses.
“If was a culmination of you, Doug, and myself who did.”
And who did I threaten, Price? No one. I don’t threaten folks - I am not a violent person - I know how to defend myself, but that is as far as it goes.
Pmom you and I will never have a rational argument on this subject because you always pull in your own personal experiences which might or might not be relevant here. I’m not condemming you for anything you did while pregnant. As for drinking while pregnant I have never heard the argument you put forth. Could be true but with no proof I would have to doubt it.
I am not trying to make abortion illegal. I’m just giving a voice to those who can’t speak for themselves.
Pleefer you are right to a certain extent and unfortunately we will see more and more large companies doing this to duck high corporate tax rates. With the next election looking as if a demo will be in the White House most large oil companies would have to be looking at this. Where does the unfriendly atmosphere we foster here for big business end. When all of our high dollar jobs are gone? When someone who understands how the economy works is elected? This is something we need to look at closely when electing our representatives.
Amway still waiting for that proof that Airbus is better. Give me anything you have got.
I spoke with the teacher of a private school recently as I was looking at the students results on the Iowa Basic Skills Test. I commented that the Wichita public school systems spends 12,000+ per student annually to educate kids in public schools according to the Eagle report. I use the word educate loosely by the way here. This teacher said the cost per student for their school was between $6500 and <$7000!!!! Much, much less than 12+K public schools spend of taxpayers money, and those students scores on the Iowa tests were consistently in the upper 90th percentiles across the subject and grade levels. Simply tremendously better than what the public schools are doing. I realize it is not a totally level playing field, his school has a lot of involved parents, but the difference is striking and frightening for the public schools performance.
We are not getting our money’s worth now, we can not continue to just throw more money at the schools and expect anything to change. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result, and that’s what USD 259 is doing.
We must vote this bond issue down convincingly to defeat.
How could my pregnancy NOT be relevant to this discussion KsGrm? Are there not millions of women out there who are just like me?
If I were a republican, I could rationalize my situation as unique, and therefore I would be different from all those other distainful women.
But I’m not, I’m a democrat, which looks at what rights are extended to me, should be extended to others who may have the same situation as myself, or a different situation.
You’re not wanting to merely give a voice grm, at least be honest. You’re just like all the others who want to chip away at women’s rights till we’re back pregnant and at home under our husband’s thumbs where we belong. Not trusted to make our own decisions.
Well, Boxlock, it would be interesting to find out how much 259 spends for only those students who would be admitted to the private school in question. The $12,000 average, IIRC, includes, but is not limited to, transportation (does the private school you visited provide transportation); the additional funding the district receives for special education students (most private schools either do not accept special ed students, other than gifted, or those whose disabilities, if any, are not major); students who are “at risk” due to poverty (how many “poor” students attend the private school?). Not to mention that the students at the private school likely are within the top two quartiles in ability, most likely within the top one, as opposed to the district who must accept all students.
Not to say that the private school doesn’t do a great job with their students for the tuition paid; most do. It seems to me, however, that if one wants to compare costs, one should try, to the extent possible, compare apples to apples. The $12,000 per in the district compared to $6500 - $7,000 per in the private school does not.
Nathan, by equating abortion with killing a 5 year old child, you really are equating abortion with murder. Why do you keep denying this? It is not a rational denial!
Pmom don’t presume to know what I am trying to do why telling me that I want to take away your rights. If I were a democrat I would know what you were trying to say. Yeah?? This is demo logic Pmom. I said what I meant to say and your can either agree or disagree but your cant apply a new meaning to what I said.
:: Hi Sugar, haven’t heard from you for a while. What exactly were you trying to say? What thinking person hasn’t heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome? I’ll go you one better and tell you that both Doil Lane and Donnie Wacker the murderers of Nancy Shewmaker a few years back were a product of this exact thing. Now what was your point?
Blah: The Canadian loonie has usually been within 10% of the greenback, the last few years saw it vastly undervalued by the guys in red suspeners resulting in a flood of imports. Several times it has exceeded the greenback usually when the price of energy goes nuts. It was up to about $1.07 a few months ago. When it settles down to about 94 cents US we’ll now things are back to normal.
“As for drinking while pregnant I have never heard the argument you put forth. Could be true but with no proof I would have to doubt it.”
There you go : sugar : putting your two cents worth where it wasn’t needed. Pmom said a small glass of wine a day was medically ok. I said what is posted above. Where in your mind did you come up with the idea I didn’t know the effect of alcohol on an unborn child?
Well, the idea of the glass of wine has been around for many years. Fetal alcohol syndrome normally has to do with “distilled” spirits, as opposed to “fermented” type alcohol. I guess thats what I was trying to figure out. I am not attacking; just wanted to make sure you guys were on the same page. OK??
And once again, I am NOT Sugar, so stop your nonsense now, before you get started on stupidity!
Distillation is a non-natural process. Fermentation is a natural occurence. There is something like a 34% difference in alcohol content between whiskey and wine. 6% as opposed to 80 Proof. 6% natural fermentation. 40% distilled content. Major difference in digestive process.
:: we are talking about pregnant women here. Not cardiovascular patients. You are mixing apples and oranges - a typical Chas argument style. Do you happen to know him?
I just threw in the cholesterol thing for an added emphasis, and since many pregnant women tend to have an increase in cholesterol during the gestational period. You know, like the tendency to have increased blood sugar counts during pregnancy?
No, KsGrm, I dont know Chas. All I know is that Chas. is one of the sort of regular posters on this Blog. Now, are you over your paranoia attack? I hope so. Because I dont want to keep telling you over and over — I am : : I am not Sugar. I am not Chas. Do you think you might be able to comprehend that? Thank you!
Ksgrm. as you can see boeing was prepared to build on the 777 platform, but apparently the Airforce wanted a smaller tanker, at least up until they decided they didn’t a few weeks ago. From the Seattle times:Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - Page updated at 12:27 PM
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777 to be Boeing’s alternative proposal for tanker
By Dominic Gates
Seattle Times aerospace reporter
Related
Air Force tanker options
Air Force causes stir by invoking WTO case
At an Air Force Association conference today in Washington, D.C., Boeing will make public for the first time a proposed U.S. Air Force refueling tanker based on its very large 777 commercial passenger jet — a potential alternative to a midsize 767 tanker.
According to a draft request for proposal (RFP) the Air Force issued Monday, the government requires a tanker that can double as a troop carrier and supply plane.
The proposed 777 tanker would have a much larger capacity for fuel, troops or cargo than either the currently offered 767 tanker or a rival offer based on the Airbus A330.
Boeing said a 777 tanker would have a maximum fuel capacity of “more than 350,000 pounds,” though a company source indicated it could stretch to more than 400,000 pounds of fuel. The Airbus tanker has a maximum fuel capacity of 250,000 pounds.
Boeing tanker spokesman Bill Barksdale said unveiling the 777 option is intended to convince observers the company is serious about providing an alternative to the original 767 tanker if the Air Force wants a bigger airplane.
But Barksdale said Boeing doesn’t yet have a preference, despite having already sunk about $1 billion into developing the 767 variant.
“We haven’t picked a platform,” Barksdale said. “We are taking our time with this. We want to make sure we understand what [the Air Force] wants.”
As John likes to say ‘The Fix is In’
Phantom anyone who looks closely at this will smell a rat. The specs were changed midway through the process and Boeing wasn’t told about it. The four criteria points haven’t been released yet and many are asking for them. Yes the fix is in and if the email McCain got yesterday plus the fact that his campaign headquarters stopped taking questions about this topic is any indicator - I see a long second look being given to this contract.
RD I just asked my daughters in law, one of whom is a medical assistant, what they were told about alcohol. They both said no alcohol, no smoking period. Guess some docs just look at this differently.
This was the most current CDC release on the subject. It seems they confer with my DIL’s docs.
Alcohol Consumption Among Women Who Are Pregnant or Who Might Become Pregnant — United States, 2002
Alcohol use during pregnancy is associated with health problems that adversely affect the mother and fetus (1,2); no level of alcohol consumption during pregnancy has been determined safe (3). Fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS) is recognized as the foremost preventable condition involving neurobehavioral and developmental abnormalities (1). Women who drink during pregnancy place themselves at risk for having a child with FAS or fetal alcohol spectrum disorders (FASD)
JR that is a cheap shot and there were three people involved in that dust up. We have had so many ‘new comers’ this weekend who even knows who is here anymore. It’s getting to be a huge drag and not worth the effort.
Phantom you are right about McCain. I will be voting Obama and hope in 4 years he will show voters what his inexperience will do.
JR what happened over the weekend with Door King and the many new nics wasn’t pretty. It was low class and he and his ilk should be kicked off in my OHO. I was disgusted by the whole exchange and didn’t even blog. If that is the kind of dialogue the editors want then I guess they have it.
Maybe more than just “some”, ksgrm. Or maybe those “some” understand and know the patients they’ve told this would not abuse alcohol.
OTOH, neither my daughter(s) nor I did much drinking when pregnant. One or two drinks during a 9 month period did no harm.
Now if you want to move on to smoking, here’s a good one for you. Of my 4, I smoked with the first 3. With the last, I had quit several months before becoming pregnant. The health industry says that smaller birth weight is a result of smoking during pregnancy. My 4th was the smallest. Smoking, it is said, can also cause birth defects. My 4th was born without a soft spot. Freaky, huh?
Anti-American tree-hugging French actress Marion Cotillard, 32, accused American shadow government or business interests or both of conspiratorial lies, arson, and mass murder in the 9/11 attacks, as well as world-wide fraud pretending to land men on the moon.
Ahh, the French again. Do they all have brains on drugs?
“I cannot make a choice for a woman, particularly a black or brown or poor pregnant woman. . . . I personally am opposed to abortion, but I will not judge anybody else’s right in that regard because I am not a woman and I could never face the actual reality of it.”
. . . Hollywood Democrat activist actor Martin Sheen, in a 2003 interview, who probably would never personally own and abuse slaves, either, while not judging anyone else’s right to do so, just like he doesn’t judge abortion mills for targeting the black race
. . .
Funny, I don’t remember peacenik Hollywood actor Martin Sheen denouncing any abortion mills, abortionist quacks, or pro-abortion Democrats. But he’s getting the Laetare Medal at Notre Dame, partly because somebody says Sheen is pro-life. Sheen has been listed as a supporter of Feminists for Life and of Seamless Garment Network, a network which, some might say, looks for excuses to vote for pro-abortion Democrats by lowering the priority of pro-life issues in favor of other diversionary “humanitarian” issues, like government handouts and animal “rights” being fronted to keep abortion mill profits high. Sheen is noted for campaigning for such extremely pro-abortion candidates as Howard “Howler” Dean and John “Flip-Flop” Kerry.
Like when John W. McBush declared evangelical Republicans as “agents of hate” until he embraced Jerry Falwell and John Hagee? Or like when he opposed Shrub’s tax-cuts for the ultra-rich until McCain supported them? Or like how the Arizona senator broke under the torture of Republic Party zealots and voted *in favor* of torture after 35 years of vocally opposing it?
The “Straight Talk Express” sure seems to zig-zag a lot.
In a decision entered Friday, U.S. District Judge David H. Coar, a leftist, activist, baby-hating puppet of the ACLU, rejected a request from Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan to dissolve a 1996 order that put the state’s parental notification law on hold. Underage mothers will continue flocking to Illinois, now that the chances of any enforcement of the law enacted by the state’s elected legislators in 1984 appear gone.
Currently, 35 states have parental notification or permission laws restricting abortion, and most states enforce them. The ACLU says that parental notification or consent laws should not be enacted or enforced, because of fears held by some underage mothers of abuse, neglect or being tossed from the house – the exact fears often exploited to coerce young mothers into filthy, unsafe abortion mills.
Reuters Monday March 3 2008 By Andrea Shalal-Esa
WASHINGTON, March 3 (Reuters) - Boeing Co failed to beat Northrop Grumman Corp in any of the key criteria in the $35 billion tanker aircraft competition won by Northrop and its European partner, according to a defense analyst with close ties to the Air Force.
“This was not a close outcome in any sense of the term,” the analyst, Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute, told Reuters. “Northrop won decisively and completely, and Boeing simply was not competitive in the major measures.”
Thompson said in a report on Monday that Boeing matched the appeal of the Northrop bid only in the area of proposal risk. And that came only after Air Force reviewers pressed Boeing to stretch out its aggressive development schedule for a new version of its 767 jet, which in turn added cost.
In fact, the Boeing proposal was initially rated as “high-risk” because reviewers were concerned that Boeing’s proposal to build a new version of the 767, using parts from other versions, would cost more than expected.
Northrop proposed a tanker based on the Airbus A330 aircraft built by Europe’s EADS. The Northrop-EADS team won decisively in four of the five criteria set by the Air Force: mission capability, past performance, price, and an integrated fleet assessment, according to Thompson.
MORE PLANES SOONER
Thompson’s report provided more detailed information than the Air Force did on Friday, including an assessment by Air Force reviewers that buying the Boeing tanker would have resulted in a much slower tanker replacement rate.
“The reviewers concluded that if they funded the Northrop Grumman proposal, they could have 49 superior tankers operating by 2013, whereas if they funded the Boeing proposal, they would have only 19 considerably less capable planes in that year,” Thompson said.
Northrop got higher ratings due to “satisfactory” execution on six programs deemed relevant to the tanker competition.
Boeing had expected to face tough competition from Northrop on cost, but it compounded its problems by failing to adequately explain its assumptions in calculating the cost of developing a tanker, Thompson said.
“The resulting low confidence in Boeing cost projections undercut its claims of lower life-cycle costs,” he said.
Northrop also did better on a complicated computer model designed to compare how the competing planes would fare in an operational setting using a realistic wartime scenario.
The review found Northrop could accomplish specified missions with nearly two dozen fewer planes than the Boeing proposal, considered a “big advantage,” Thompson said. (Reporting by Andrea Shalal-Esa; editing by John Wallace)
Vaughn Tolle Posted March 3, 2008 at 2:00 pm
“compare apples to apples. The $12,000 per in the district compared to $6500 - $7,000 per in the private school does not.”
I said it wasn’t a level playing field but the differences are shockingly excessive.
I’m sick and tired of paying more and more and more for the same rotten apples.
Why are we paying for all that’s not directly related to teaching that is provided by public schools that the private schools do not yet the private schools are beating them at everything.
The cost savings of Northrup vs Boeing is $55 BILLION.
I have a two-part solution:
- 1.1 million Kansas residents in and around Wichita will be given $50,000 for doing nothing. (That is $55 BILLION in savings given away)
- The military will get the larger capacity, more fuel efficient, tanker delivered faster for the same price they would have paid for the Boeing plane.
So, the military gets the best tanker, and Kansas residents get $55 Billion in Government free money.
WS Clark and I were doing our usual banter and Doug was on the sidelines taking shots.
I made a comment which was in no way a threat. the editors deleted it. Doug began to do his usual taking everything out of context and make up crap to throw and did.
I was annoyed with the Editors for basically giving Doug ammo and then not deleting the crap Doug was saying about me.
Eventually the Editors did delete that crap from Doug too.
I already said that I apologize for my part in going back in forth with them in meaningless antics.
Boxer, Vaughn clearly outlined a number of differences in the cost for the private versus the public school expenses… Your comparison is still obviously apples to oranges… Level the playing field, and see what you come up with…
Why don’t grow up. You are little more than that stupid kid in the back of every bus who doesn’t do anything but taunt other kids and throw things at cars just trying to start something.
I am the kid who can’t help but stand up to the idiots like you.
“It’s a cost issue,” retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney, a FOX military analyst, said. “The cost savings of the Northrop airplane is $55 billion.” The Air Force can retire more KC-135s faster because the new KC-30 has double the hauling capacity.
Specifications KC-767 KC-45
—————————————————————
Passenger version Boeing 767-200 Airbus A330
Crew 3 3
Length 159ft 2in 192 ft 11 in
Wingspan 156ft 1in 197 ft 10 in
Height 52ft 57 ft
Payloads:
- Passengers 190 226
- Pallets (463L) 19 32
- Aeromedical evacuation 97 patients 113 staff(Patients or staff)
Max fuel capacity: 202,000+ lbs 250,000 lbs
Max takeoff weight: 400,000+ lbs Not available
Engine NA (GE’s CF6-80E1A4B with 72,000 lb thrust)
Boxlock, I understand what you are saying. What I’m trying to get to isn’t that the district is or is not doing a good job with many of its students (it isn’t, IMO, but I think that there are many reasons for that, not all within the control of USD 259). If the playing field was leveled, with only the same students in the district as are in the private school, I’d speculate that: 1) There would not be an average of $12,000 per student being spent, but less; 2) the performance of those in USD 259 would be comparable to those in private schools. What, then, would happen to the other students?
There are some things that 259 does well; Special Ed is one of them. There are many questions, though, that I have about what is happening to Joe or Jane Average student. While we can discuss at length our perceptions of what is and is not going well, and, BTW, I do not believe the State Assessment results are accurate reflections thereof but that’s with which we are stuck, the one thing that “Grading Our Schools” makes abundantly clear: those schools with a high population of students who are defined as being “in poverty” are not doing well on State Assessments. That, I think you might concede, is not a problem for most if not all the private schools.
Is this alone a good reason to not vote for the Bond Issue in the upcoming May 6 election? It may be for you and others; I’ve other problems with the same, as have been posted before.
Dunno Max, during my tenure in the Air Force, I can’t say I have ever seen or heard of a French aircraft tanker equivalent to what the Air Force had in inventory.
So I can’t say if the French have the best tanker, because I’ve never seen nor heard of any. :D
BTW, Boxlock, many of the things being paid for by USD 259 which are not, in your opinion, directly related to teaching are things that are mandated by federal and state law, Special Ed being one of these (including the costs of transportation of these students). Similarly, “free and reduced lunch” is something that the private schools don’t deal with. Transportation is another; there are statutory provisions that deal with transportation that apply to the public schools. I think these are things to which you refer, and if I’m wrong, you will let me know what it is with which you are concerned.
One issue which comes to mind regarding this is parts.
25-40 years from now when the Airbus is our primary refueling source in the air, will our parts supply be ok?
Having been to several countries and seeing their military equipment, I have seen first hand what happens 20 years after the fact.
Sure, Russia has sold a ton of military equipment to other countries, but if those countries don’t have an active supply chain of parts to fix them and keep them operational they are worthless.
I am not saying this would happen to us, but just a thought.
When I was in Argentina training with their military for a couple of days, they only had two operation Amphibious assault vehicles. Neither could go in the water.
That was out of around 100 vehicles we sold them a decade before.
Most of that was probably due to their own inability to afford the parts, but if we didn’t want to give them any parts it would hurt.
I also argued that it was kind of a good reason to be the supplier of military planes and other equipment to other countries as well.
If they ever got out of hand, we cut off the parts.
Those planes don’t fly for very long without parts.
Regular, while I was in the Air Force, there wasn’t anything in the inventory of tankers which had any “French Connection”. Taking a look at the wiki article on the Airbus proposal (are the Brits still involved with EADS?), it appears that the Brits, the Aussies, and at least one of the Arab states (which one escapes me, I think the Saudis) are ahead of the U.S. in line for the tanker based on the Airbus frame. The question which then occurs is whether, due to this international flavor, it (the Airbus tanker) has advantages for contemplated future ops with foreign allied forces, in addition to the larger capacity, etc., listed by Max above.
Max what you are saying could be true. But you and I don’t know that do we. If I told you I could landscape your yard for 50% less that Surburban Landscaping would you give me the contract?
Now I have never landscaped a yard in my life but I planted a veg garden a few years ago. It didn’t do bad. The blooms kept falling off the vines and my melons and cucumbers looked a little funny (no one told me not to plant together).
Do you get my point? All Airbus has is a prototype. They haven’t built anything yet.
Sometimes bigger isn’t always better. They learned that lesson with the C5A Galaxy.
Besides, I’m unsure if the EADS aircraft can handle all the smaller runways around the world -
- especially for the medics.
The reason being, I’ve sat in operations and watch the “Nightingales” take off to destinations unknown to most, but known in operations to do pick up of sick or injured embassy, department of State, DoD, etc. etc. that had to land at very small Airports. Not sure if the giant EADS can take off or land in these places.
The thought that occurs to me right away are the “wake turbulent” created by a larger aircraft. Flying a jet fighter behind a huge aircraft that leaves an “air wake stream” the size of a football field is going to be challenging for refueling.
The other thing are re-building and re-training “kit managers.” The kit managers are located in maintenance depots like Tinker AFB and etc. What they do is keep essential parts for the various systems on a particular aircraft. It’s mostly automated now, but they still have to know that when they get widget X it is actually the same widget X, the maintenance supervisor is asking for.
Re-training the maintenance personnel will be required as well. I’m sure the Avionics on the EADS is different from the Boeing KC series. This means new Tech Specs being written, engineering standards, new Technical training at the military schools, new tools, new procedures for flight checks, etc. etc. - this will all be new money that will be required.
Plus, the pilots and the aircrew members will need to be re-trained - more money.
Since the EADS is going to be the new “Nightingale,” the medics are going to want to test stability, vibration, altitude shift and cabin pressure stabilization, EMI from the cabin on their medical electronics, and etc. Of course, more retraining for the medics on retraining.
Lots of extra dollars, perhaps in the billions, that wasn’t included in the contract that the Air Force will have to plead to Congress to get, because it’s not currently a programmed budget item.
The thought of the paperwork, new regulations, technical specification manuals and etc. is enough to make my head spin.
Reg that is the one point where the AF said the Boeing product was best in. It could use smaller runways and therefore would have more versitility and be able to be located closer to the action.
HANK Price gets a meeting with Brownlee to “end the ugliness and profanity” on the Blog and who is going to be the first regular poster to be banned - why Hank’s own little boy, NATHAN Price, because he can’t control his violent tendencies.
Boeing proposed a slower, smaller tanker with less range than the competition. Boeing was counting on “buy American” jingoism. And frankly, there’s a case to be made to have American taxpayers’ money go for American-made products.
But Boeing couldn’t come up with a better product for the money.
Especially since there hasn’t been a new mass-produced air tanker designed in 50 years, the whole argument that the French (or anyone else) haven’t “designed a tanker” loses a bit of its credibility.
French Champagne is better too, but I’m not paying the price difference for a ‘name.’
Experience matters when it comes to military equipment because of the MIL SPECs involved.
If EADS keeps the bid, they are going to walk into the night mare of dealing with MIL SPEC (military specification) requirements which can be maddening.
There is stuff that military does and tests for, that no one else in the world does or requires.
The real cost will come with the spares (parts) I’ve seen companies sell the primary aircraft at nearly break even knowing the real profit would come further down the supply chain. And, when it’s 3 dollars to a euro we’ll pay through the nose.
While details of the decision are not fully clear, “it is troubling that the Bush administration would award the second-largest Pentagon contract in our nation’s history to a team that includes a European firm that our government is simultaneously suing at the (World Trade Organization) for receiving illegal subsidies,” Clinton said.
229 Comments
Just a few more things I’d like to share regarding this latest, not-very-greatest flu epidemic that’s waylaid our fair city this winter.
If you are fortunate enough to receive a narcotic (i.e., opioid) cough syrup (i.e., if you’re sick enough to warrant re-writing your will) - just a word of caution:
Imbibing opiates while you’ve got the flu is a little dicey at first dose. It’s one thing to take these elixirs if you’ve got a back injury - and there’s no flu to be had. But go easy on the cough syrup on the first day. I took my prescribed, two doses (in the exact amount prescribed) about four hours apart on the first day. That was probably unwise, because I awoke the next morning with a massive, mandela drug interaction (I’m on three other meds as well).
If you see the doctor mid-day, don’t try to take two doses of the cough syrup - just take the first dose at night. On the next and subsequent days, take one in the morning and the other at night - spaced far enough apart to avoid any icky-awful episodes.
One can only hope that next winter’s flu season won’t be as bad - because this year has s–ked sardine sarcophagus.
I’m sure ol’ Fast-Buck-Freddie Phelps would say it’s gawd’s way of punishing us godless heathens for our weekid-pedia-esque ways. I only wish I’d saved all my germs, packed ‘em in a Fed Ex box, and shipped ‘em on over to Topeka.
That’d shut the crap-infested cretin up for good.
Why are most of my comments always “awaiting moderation”? Does the Eagle not appreciate real news from time to time?
Isn’t it great to see the U.S. govt. decsion to buy European is enriching EADS shareholders and decimating boeing and spirit (as well as other main suppliers) shareholders. That’s what America is all about, put the other guy first!
That topic has been on my mind all weekend. Without trying to sound alarmist, that decision (not ours) was as close to treason (outside of bombing us) as our military could get. But then again that’s just my opinion.
But we need to get back to knowing that the U.S. Government is US. And I want to take it back from these devils. that so-called revolt that the hippies did…nothing. Pretty soon…
Sure, why not - I mean France is known world-wide for their excellence in refueling tanker planes.
or not…
Sigh…
Blame Boeing for the loss of the tanker contract. They have had issues of their own creation with their engineers and labor for years. Too busy hunting for another dime to squeeze, they got out R&D’d. But they won’t learn anything from it.
Boeing is, according to JR, just decent enough to build fences now (and just virtual fences at that).
Maybe it’s our way of rewarding the French for electing a USA friendly president —- we almost gave our ports to Dubai didn’t we —- I wonder why the other big plane manufacturers (Lockheed ?/ ) didn’t bid the job —-
Ken I can not swear to it, but I think I heard something about Lockheed did put a bid in.
Contrary to the prevailing mindset, manufacturing is the heart of any strong economy.
This country took a wrong turn years ago and we are paying for it now. The lopsided trade agreements, the moving of manufacturing over seas and the over regulating of business has cause the lost of our power within the world. The United States slipped behind while holding to a false premise that somehow just because it was American business that it was the best. It has become like loaning money to a drunk brother, just because he is kin does not mean it is true he will pay you back. Nor just because it is an American company does it mean you will get the best investment.
It’s all water under the bridge now boys. May the best man won. Maybe if Boeing hadn’t had their hands in the air force cookie jar, trying to bribe their way into contracts, things might have been different. The deal is over but apparently as reflected in the crying still going on the Weblog is correct - it has been a bitter pill to swallow.
But look on the bright side. Franch has socialized healthcare, rated as one of the best in the world. The government also owns the utilities and is much closer to energy independence than we will ever dream of. Maybe they will build some nuclear power plants in America next.
Don’t beat up a fellow socialist too badly now.
Boeing screwed the pooch and they have no one to blame but themselves.
They blew it.
They had EVERYTHING going for them and nothing going against them, and they STILL managed to mess it up.
I am saddened and disheartened by seeing the contract go overseas, but Boeing is responsible for this disaster, not the Air Force.
Once again we see the high cost of benefits play an important part in the awarding of another contract. Take the blinders off. When an American corporation has to factor in higher wages and benefits cost then their overhead will be higher. Always has always will be.
Do we want all of the corp. taxes we would have collected from Boeing now going to build the French infrastructure while our own goes untended? Great move and if we allow it to happen then we deserve what we get. Thirty years of propping up the French economy - thirty years of seeing more jobs go over seas - thirty years of watching out own cost of living go up. Your choice. If you don’t want this - flood every senator and congressman that has anything to do with this decision with emails, phone calls, letters whatever. Shut down the phone banks. We have the power to change this but we have to act now.
Let me clarify ksgrm’s remarks,
“If you don’t want what is best for our men and women in uniform - if you don’t want the best equipement to win in combat - if you want an inferior product for the defense of this nation -
email your congressmen.”
“Move ten battalions to the border with Colombian immediately,” he said to his defense minister. “We don’t want war, but we are not going to allow the North American empire, which is their master, and their puppy-dog President Uribe and the Colombian oligarchy to come divide us, to weaken us. We are not going to allow it.”
The Venezuelan president then gave orders to his foreign minister to close the Venezuelan embassy in Bogota and withdraw all the officials that work there, bringing relations between the countries to their lowest point in recent history.
Chavez sharply criticized Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, accusing him of leading a “criminal” government, and warned the Colombian leader that any kind of incursion into Venezuelan territory on the part of the Colombian military would be a cause for war between the two countries.
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com
THAT’S a great attitude ksgrm! Absolutely the right thing to say and what we need to do! Thanks for understanding love of country and your countrymen and women.
Good business ain’t always “about the bottom line”.
Sol, bankers love playing chess with us, don’t they?
We’re in trouble.
AMway what do you base your opinion on? Airbus has never built a tanker. Their own planes the 350 have a very high ‘maintenance required’ record. Just because they are foreign makes them better. In what way?
It is this attitude that will doom our country to mediocrity.
The Air Force gets the budget cuts next go around.
“Good business ain’t always “about the bottom line”.
This isn’t just business - it’s about the best equipement for our military men and women.
Good luck with your letter writing. I’m sure everyone in Wichita can make a difference.
And you obviously are not a businessman.
A stable and working middle class would be a pretty decent “defense” as well?
“Although Airbuses have been involved in a number of major crashes - 11 in 12 years with the loss of more than 1,400 lives”
Is this the reliabile plane you were talking about. This is the plane that dropped an engine into a NY neighborhood while taking off from JFK a few year ago. Major cracks in the structure were found.
This is the best plane for our military because????
American Way,
It is never about “the best” for our men and women.
It is about the best feasible equipment.
There are certainly a multitude of things which would be the “best” for our men and women, but trying to field a military with over 1 million men and women in it would be insane.
Kgrm, good grief do you want me to repost from the thread dedicated to this subject? Go back and read the facts. You have just posted two items out of dozens and with that you have the wisdom to know what is best for America’s military defense?
I’m sure every time, every town in America looses a military contract the thought process is the same:
Because it is made here, it is better than there.
That doesn’t hold any intelligent information, or any observation or evaluation of facts.
It’s come to a sad state of affairs when the Canadian Dollar is equal to, or as of last night, worth a penny more than the US Dollar.
Economy needs help and it can’t wait for a new president.
Amway I am indeed a business woman. I recognize that the bottom line isn’t necessarily the final decision maker. I have nothing to do with the aerospace industry other than residing in Wichita. But as an American I see a very bad decision made by our politicians and AF bigwigs.
We have a standard of living in this country we have become comfortable with. A decision like this will help drive that down. Do we want American jobs to allow our blue collar workers to have a good standard of living or do we want to help build the EURO? You decide.
If everyone would just step back and take off their blinders - our focus on Boeing Wichita it might add a little better perspective on this for you.
Our DoD is tasked with making decisions which will affect the war-fighting ability of our armed forces. Much of that, and probably most of it, involves projecting force deep into lands beyond a US controlled airstrip.
These tankers exist to project air power. Air power in support of our combat forces: our young men and women on the ground for much of it.
Do you want the best for them? What product will provide the greater ability to project our air power and succeed?
That is the real picture, which unfortunately is not what I’m reading in most posts above.
This decision was YEARS in the making. The military considered the political forces on them - had to know the impact and pressure on them to “buy American”. But despite that they picked a product they felt was best for winning in combat.
Again, take the blinders off. The Northrop-EADS tanker was ranked superior in 4 of 5 categories.
Northrop’s product is bigger, newer, has GREATER CAPACITY IN FUEL, PASSENGERS, AND CARGO.
Years in the planning, and years of evaluation.
Our men and women serving do NOT need another political decision. They need the bestest product money can buy.
Similiar to the MRAP vehicles in Iraq, which we all attacked the pentegon and Bush for NOT buying and rushing to our troops for IED protection. Do you want the best, or politically best?
Look outside yourself and Wichita.
American Way?…my ass.
I suppose we’re back to eating “French Fries” instead of “Freedom Fries”?
So much for that idiot, O’ Liellys’ France boycott…
“It is never about “the best” for our men and women.”
Nathan, when it comes to providing equipment for our men and women in uniform - it should always be about what is best for them to succeed in combat.
Locate, closewith and destroy the enemy, or repell his attack using fire and close combat (or something like that).
AMway I did a very quick search to show you Airbus doesn’t have a good reliability rating. You need to do your own research. You made a bold statement that this was the best tanker for our military. I asked you based on what? You attack my statement with backup but still have nothing to back up your statement.
It ain’t about “Wichita”, try our Nation. Does it say to the world, “the US makes soo shitty of a plane, that their own military won’t buy them”?
American military should fly in American planes.. period.
We dont need a larger more fuel thirsty aircraft, we need an all around efficiently sized and economic plane. The Boeing deal provided just that.
And why take chances on an Airbus that has known technical issues like oh the landing gear breaking off. This has happened 4 times now.
American Way,
Again, using the term best is very misleading.
If we wanted our troops to have the best, I could easily show you how fielding a million man military would bankrupt us.
These tankers are probably better. I have not done much reasearch on the difference and I support the DOD’s judgment on this.
My only argument is with constantly throwing around providing the “best” for our men and women.
AMway you are defending a prototype. It hasn’t even been built yet but you are lauding it as if it is a fait accompli. Don’t you see the ironey of your own statement?
ksgrm
Doesn’t matter what I decide. Doesn’t matter what you decide.
It matters what the DoD HAS decided in order to win in combat.
Now, I will NEVER argue against getting some of that
MONEY for Wichita. I would be on the wrong blog for that wouldn’t I?
To hell with fair competition and free enterprise - WE WANT IT ALL.
Just like I own a Honda for reliability. It will outlive a Chevy by more than twice the mileage and I get 44 MPG! Proven reliability. Chevy going broke? Not my concern.
Our nation deserves the best. You will only ensure further poor performance and reliability if this is overturned.
But I’m easy. It is Wichita, Kansas which benefits.
Greed is good!
Nathan
Northrop’s product is bigger, newer, has GREATER CAPACITY IN FUEL, PASSENGERS, AND CARGO.
Carries more fuel, allowing to refuel more jets and allow longer TOT (Time over target). Carries more passengers (less flights arrive on time), and cargo (beans, bandages, badguys, bullets).
Yep, sounds best to me. (or better if you will)
Nathan I wouldn’t even give the DoD that much credit. Looking at it from a laymans prespective - Why accounce this late on a Friday night when the most undesireable news items are always released. Why not give the criteria used to make this decision? What items made Airbus superior? Reliability - when we know engines and landing gear have fallen off? Capacity - when the entire plane hasn’t been built yet and know changes will be made to the plans?
AMway I am just glad that they are meeting on this this morning. I have sent emails and made phone calls. I can tell you that when the amnesty issue was announced that the number of contacts the pols received made them reverse that decision two days later. I have a network of people I can start something rolling with and it goes nation wide. If you think all of the concern is in Wichita you are sadly mistaken.
The people - you and me - do have the power to change the power wonks in DC if we use it.
Yeah Ksgrm that’s all we need: another political decision when a military one is needed.
Just like Vietnam and Iraq.
Let the politicans decide what is best.
We don’t want the best product.
We don’t want competition.
We want bribes to really stand for something.
So what if a few Boeings fall from the sky.
Screw the troops.
Why not have a friggin military dictatorship, right UnAmWay? Hell, if they’d just have a draft, then we’d all have a job.
Good going guys, you got the whole thread shut down. Geez.
What the heck did you say? Don’t repeat it here!
“Sundown on the Union”
Well, my shoes, they come from Singapore,
My flashlight’s from Taiwan,
My tablecloth’s from Malaysia,
My belt buckle’s from the Amazon.
You know, this shirt I wear comes from the Philippines
And the car I drive is a Chevrolet,
It was put together down in Argentina
By a guy makin’ thirty cents a day.
Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the U.S.A.
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.
Well, this silk dress is from Hong Kong
And the pearls are from Japan.
Well, the dog collar’s from India
And the flower pot’s from Pakistan.
All the furniture, it says “Made in Brazil”
Where a woman, she slaved for sure
Bringin’ home thirty cents a day to a family of twelve,
You know, that’s a lot of money to her.
Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the U.S.A.
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.
Well, you know, lots of people complainin’ that there is no work.
I say, “Why you say that for
When nothin’ you got is U.S.-made?”
They don’t make nothin’ here no more,
You know, capitalism is above the law.
It say, “It don’t count ‘less it sells.”
When it costs too much to build it at home
You just build it cheaper someplace else.
Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the U.S.A.
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.
Well, the job that you used to have,
They gave it to somebody down in El Salvador.
The unions are big business, friend,
And they’re goin’ out like a dinosaur.
They used to grow food in Kansas
Now they want to grow it on the moon and eat it raw.
I can see the day coming when even your home garden
Is gonna be against the law.
Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the U.S.A.
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.
Democracy don’t rule the world,
You’d better get that in your head.
This world is ruled by violence
But I guess that’s better left unsaid.
From Broadway to the Milky Way,
That’s a lot of territory indeed
And a man’s gonna do what he has to do
When he’s got a hungry mouth to feed.
Well, it’s sundown on the union
And what’s made in the U.S.A.
Sure was a good idea
‘Til greed got in the way.
-Bob Dylan
Those words in themselves were not threatening, but I know you Nathan, what ELSE was said?
AMway I am still waiting for that proof that Airbus is better. If that is so post the proof. If not quit making that claim with nothing to support it. And by the way this won’t be the first mistake made by the bigwigs - not the fighting men and women - at the DoD. Remember the $600 toilet seats, how about the $500 hammers?
EDITORS:
See what you did? All you did was give Doug ammunition to go around making up more lies about me over here.
And you wonder why I am annoyed?
Shut it all down.
Political Mama,
Nothing. That was it. That was what I said. It was deleted and they let Doug post over and over again about me loving to kill people, calling me crazy, and calling me a liar.
I am slightly annoyed.
I think it’s quite clear, it’s like telling someone in a bar to meet them in a back alley. It’s either for gay sex or for a fist fight. Nathan is a very violent person and has threatened others in the past, not as bad as the one conservative who threatened to put a bullet in my head. It’s the authoritarian mentality.
No, Nathan, they’ll shut YOU down
Ksgrm, what do you mean there is little protection from STD’s with condoms? Bull. It depends on the STD and where it is located.
EDITORS:
Well? Are you not going to delete this too? Shut down this topic too?
WS Clark,
JR is little. I am average. If you were not so scared to meet me, you would know that.
“If were not so scared to meet me, you could find out.”
As I have said, Price, I am not afraid of you, I just don’t LIKE you and I choose not to spend time with people that I do not like.
But, good job of getting the last thread shutdown - are you going to go for two?
EDITORS:
Please delete Doug’s comments saying I am violent, that I am crazy, that I have threated someone, and that I want to kill people.
I think I’ll stop posting for today as I don’t need people like Nathan threatening people like WS Clark. Who knows when he’ll deal his fundy rage upon others. His mommy should suspend his AOL account until he learns to grow up.
Doug,
Looks like they did delete all your posts as well.
Thank you EDITORS.
Someone’s poisoned the well.
“Shut it all down.”
Ah, now we can see your true goal, Price.
WS Clark,
Honestly: I don’t want the blog shut down at all.
It irritated me that of all the posts to delete, they delete mine. It was not a threat in any way at all and was hardly any more insulting that half the crap we had already said.
All it did was feed Doug so he could go on and on calling me names and saying things about me which are not true and far more than simple name calling.
Saying I like to kill people, that I am violent, and that I threatened you are all very seriousl things.
It annoyed me that those stood while my post was deleted.
I apologize for overreacting, but it did get me upset that all the Editors ultimately did was feed Doug.
Now it appears as if the things he said have been and are being deleted.
Pmom the STD’s protections argument is a well accepted one in the medical field. Things like warts and other external diseases are not affected by a condom.
Your argument about the expansion of Alexa’s law doesn’t have legs. You are trying to minimize proposed protection for the fetus from illegal drugs and alcohol not the things you mentioned. Eating to many cheeseburgers, sitting on a foam cushion - give me a break.
It takes a lot to get a thread shutdown, Price.
I’ve never done it - you rank right up there with Ian Santiago and a few more of the loons.
Ok, say that it doesn’t offer protection for genital warts, but that’s not 90% of vd. It still offers protection against many many others.
Yes my argument about the expansion of alexa’s law IS valid. From me taking a half a glass of wine at dinner while pregnant one time..that could be grounds for charging me even though not a doc in the world would agree that one half glass of wine during pregnancy is harmful.
I smoked during pregnancy, and if I was on the fence about abortion and knew I couldn’t stop smoking…where do you think I’d end up? In the abortion clinic or in jail?
Same argument for drugs. By the way, the worst withdrawl in infants doesn’t come from street drugs, but rather women who took legally prescribed drugs from their doctors.
It is basically making any woman who has a miscarriage up for scrutiny on what she did to cause it. And that aint right.
I was showing how far the argument could go. If a woman is diabetic and doesn’t control her diet while pregnant, you don’t think they could use this law against her? Come on. Fetus fanatics have no interest in the woman and her life.
All in all it doesn’t matter about the Boeing deal or lack thereof, Boeing is a Chinese company now anyway.
WS Clark,
First of all, “I” didn’t shut the thread down.
If was a culmination of you, Doug, and myself who did.
I take my fair share of the blame. I shouldn’t allow myself to get sucked into the same old back and forth crap with you. Then throw Doug into the mix and that doesn’t help anything.
So, for my part, I apologize. I will do my best from here on out to simply avoid anything other than commenting on the topic and refrain from the back and forth with you.
How long would McCain be in office before he withdrew the WTO complaint against Airbus subsidies? Kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth to file charges of unfair trade against a company and then turn around and buy their plane over the competition, don’t you think?
Airbus does not have a proven refueling plane. When Europe wanted a Military transport, they didn’t buy American- they funded he development of their own. When Spirit tried to buy a couple of spun off airbus factories, the Europeans said they would not allow it.
Who’s the sucker?
Nathan, re: the closed thread.
Of course, I don’t condemn you.
Here’s where I’m coming from. Goals of Christians are to lead people to Christ. If I show hatred and contempt towards one of the most vulnerable of people, pregnant women, then I would never succeed in God’s mission.
The Pro-Abortionists are not the ones that I can reach. However, I can reach the bewildered and scared female seeking to find a solution to her answers or thinks she is finding a solution.
Are Tiller and Pro-Activists contemptible before God? Yes, of course. However, it is God’s province to find them with contempt, not mine. To fill my heart with hatred towards someone, consumes my being and God’s purpose. God doesn’t ask for soldiers of equal contempt to deal with others of contempt. God asks for those who will listen, tend matters with mercy and understanding.
I cannot attract those I seek to help, if I angrily yell at them with clenched fist and words of contempt and spite.
It’s the human beings we have to help, not the Abortion issue. I think sometimes that is forgotten. An issue has no soul to be saved or condemned, it is a many horned demon waiting to consume us by our weaknesses.
“If was a culmination of you, Doug, and myself who did.”
And who did I threaten, Price? No one. I don’t threaten folks - I am not a violent person - I know how to defend myself, but that is as far as it goes.
As for back and forth - that is what debate is.
Pmom you and I will never have a rational argument on this subject because you always pull in your own personal experiences which might or might not be relevant here. I’m not condemming you for anything you did while pregnant. As for drinking while pregnant I have never heard the argument you put forth. Could be true but with no proof I would have to doubt it.
I am not trying to make abortion illegal. I’m just giving a voice to those who can’t speak for themselves.
Pleefer you are right to a certain extent and unfortunately we will see more and more large companies doing this to duck high corporate tax rates. With the next election looking as if a demo will be in the White House most large oil companies would have to be looking at this. Where does the unfriendly atmosphere we foster here for big business end. When all of our high dollar jobs are gone? When someone who understands how the economy works is elected? This is something we need to look at closely when electing our representatives.
Amway still waiting for that proof that Airbus is better. Give me anything you have got.
I spoke with the teacher of a private school recently as I was looking at the students results on the Iowa Basic Skills Test. I commented that the Wichita public school systems spends 12,000+ per student annually to educate kids in public schools according to the Eagle report. I use the word educate loosely by the way here. This teacher said the cost per student for their school was between $6500 and <$7000!!!! Much, much less than 12+K public schools spend of taxpayers money, and those students scores on the Iowa tests were consistently in the upper 90th percentiles across the subject and grade levels. Simply tremendously better than what the public schools are doing. I realize it is not a totally level playing field, his school has a lot of involved parents, but the difference is striking and frightening for the public schools performance.
We are not getting our money’s worth now, we can not continue to just throw more money at the schools and expect anything to change. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result, and that’s what USD 259 is doing.
We must vote this bond issue down convincingly to defeat.
“Amway still waiting for that proof that Airbus is better.”
I’m not AmWay but, the Air Force DID select Airbus over Boeing - why was that?
How could my pregnancy NOT be relevant to this discussion KsGrm? Are there not millions of women out there who are just like me?
If I were a republican, I could rationalize my situation as unique, and therefore I would be different from all those other distainful women.
But I’m not, I’m a democrat, which looks at what rights are extended to me, should be extended to others who may have the same situation as myself, or a different situation.
You’re not wanting to merely give a voice grm, at least be honest. You’re just like all the others who want to chip away at women’s rights till we’re back pregnant and at home under our husband’s thumbs where we belong. Not trusted to make our own decisions.
KsGrm —
Ever hear of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome??
Well, Boxlock, it would be interesting to find out how much 259 spends for only those students who would be admitted to the private school in question. The $12,000 average, IIRC, includes, but is not limited to, transportation (does the private school you visited provide transportation); the additional funding the district receives for special education students (most private schools either do not accept special ed students, other than gifted, or those whose disabilities, if any, are not major); students who are “at risk” due to poverty (how many “poor” students attend the private school?). Not to mention that the students at the private school likely are within the top two quartiles in ability, most likely within the top one, as opposed to the district who must accept all students.
Not to say that the private school doesn’t do a great job with their students for the tuition paid; most do. It seems to me, however, that if one wants to compare costs, one should try, to the extent possible, compare apples to apples. The $12,000 per in the district compared to $6500 - $7,000 per in the private school does not.
Nathan, by equating abortion with killing a 5 year old child, you really are equating abortion with murder. Why do you keep denying this? It is not a rational denial!
Is there a point in having an abortion thread? What would that be?
Post count for ad revenue Steven Davis. :)
oops, gonna be late for appointment….
zipppppppppppppppppppppppp
It must have gotten more out of hand than usual. It was shut down. Perhaps WE Blog is finally getting serious.
Pmom don’t presume to know what I am trying to do why telling me that I want to take away your rights. If I were a democrat I would know what you were trying to say. Yeah?? This is demo logic Pmom. I said what I meant to say and your can either agree or disagree but your cant apply a new meaning to what I said.
:: Hi Sugar, haven’t heard from you for a while. What exactly were you trying to say? What thinking person hasn’t heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome? I’ll go you one better and tell you that both Doil Lane and Donnie Wacker the murderers of Nancy Shewmaker a few years back were a product of this exact thing. Now what was your point?
Steven I would have to agree with you on this one. We were actually discussing the tanker deal here before the abortion thread moved over.
You mentioned, KsGrm, that you were not familiar with what PMama was talking about regarding drinking and being pregnant. What were YOU talking about?
Blah: The Canadian loonie has usually been within 10% of the greenback, the last few years saw it vastly undervalued by the guys in red suspeners resulting in a flood of imports. Several times it has exceeded the greenback usually when the price of energy goes nuts. It was up to about $1.07 a few months ago. When it settles down to about 94 cents US we’ll now things are back to normal.
Oh, and before you get off on another tangent, I am Not Sugar! Got it?
“As for drinking while pregnant I have never heard the argument you put forth. Could be true but with no proof I would have to doubt it.”
There you go : sugar : putting your two cents worth where it wasn’t needed. Pmom said a small glass of wine a day was medically ok. I said what is posted above. Where in your mind did you come up with the idea I didn’t know the effect of alcohol on an unborn child?
I realize some people have personality disorders. Of course you are not Sugar (wink,wink).
Well, the idea of the glass of wine has been around for many years. Fetal alcohol syndrome normally has to do with “distilled” spirits, as opposed to “fermented” type alcohol. I guess thats what I was trying to figure out. I am not attacking; just wanted to make sure you guys were on the same page. OK??
And once again, I am NOT Sugar, so stop your nonsense now, before you get started on stupidity!
:: where do you get these things. It is the alcohol content. I haven’t heard of a difference being made between distilled or fermented spirits.
Distillation is a non-natural process. Fermentation is a natural occurence. There is something like a 34% difference in alcohol content between whiskey and wine. 6% as opposed to 80 Proof. 6% natural fermentation. 40% distilled content. Major difference in digestive process.
Wine is also recommended for some patients with a high cholesterol problem.
:: we are talking about pregnant women here. Not cardiovascular patients. You are mixing apples and oranges - a typical Chas argument style. Do you happen to know him?
I just threw in the cholesterol thing for an added emphasis, and since many pregnant women tend to have an increase in cholesterol during the gestational period. You know, like the tendency to have increased blood sugar counts during pregnancy?
No, KsGrm, I dont know Chas. All I know is that Chas. is one of the sort of regular posters on this Blog. Now, are you over your paranoia attack? I hope so. Because I dont want to keep telling you over and over — I am : : I am not Sugar. I am not Chas. Do you think you might be able to comprehend that? Thank you!
“Wine is also recommended for some patients with a high cholesterol problem.”
But only red wine. Something about the tannins from the grape skin. Wine is O.K., it just doesn’t go with college basketball games.
Or you ever sit down on the couch with a salami sandwich, a cut of limburger cheese - and wine?
It just isn’t right I tell ya.
Beer. It does a heart good.
Hey guys~! Sugars on the phone and wants to know what kind of wine to bring over for the football game!
Naaa. It isn’t right.
Gotta photo of my wife balancing a glass of red wine on her pregnant belly. Worked fine - until the baby got big enough to kick.
Ksgrm. as you can see boeing was prepared to build on the 777 platform, but apparently the Airforce wanted a smaller tanker, at least up until they decided they didn’t a few weeks ago. From the Seattle times:Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - Page updated at 12:27 PM
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Tech Tracks blog
News and perspectives from our tech team.Brier Dudley’s blog
A critical look at tech and business issues.
777 to be Boeing’s alternative proposal for tanker
By Dominic Gates
Seattle Times aerospace reporter
Related
Air Force tanker options
Air Force causes stir by invoking WTO case
At an Air Force Association conference today in Washington, D.C., Boeing will make public for the first time a proposed U.S. Air Force refueling tanker based on its very large 777 commercial passenger jet — a potential alternative to a midsize 767 tanker.
According to a draft request for proposal (RFP) the Air Force issued Monday, the government requires a tanker that can double as a troop carrier and supply plane.
The proposed 777 tanker would have a much larger capacity for fuel, troops or cargo than either the currently offered 767 tanker or a rival offer based on the Airbus A330.
Boeing said a 777 tanker would have a maximum fuel capacity of “more than 350,000 pounds,” though a company source indicated it could stretch to more than 400,000 pounds of fuel. The Airbus tanker has a maximum fuel capacity of 250,000 pounds.
Boeing tanker spokesman Bill Barksdale said unveiling the 777 option is intended to convince observers the company is serious about providing an alternative to the original 767 tanker if the Air Force wants a bigger airplane.
But Barksdale said Boeing doesn’t yet have a preference, despite having already sunk about $1 billion into developing the 767 variant.
“We haven’t picked a platform,” Barksdale said. “We are taking our time with this. We want to make sure we understand what [the Air Force] wants.”
As John likes to say ‘The Fix is In’
Almost 30 years ago, my ob told me that a glass of wine or of beer each evening wouldn’t hurt me or the baby and might be beneficial.
Less than a year ago, my daughter’s ob told her the same.
A glass of wine or a beer a day does not cause FAS. Who is saying it does?
Phantom anyone who looks closely at this will smell a rat. The specs were changed midway through the process and Boeing wasn’t told about it. The four criteria points haven’t been released yet and many are asking for them. Yes the fix is in and if the email McCain got yesterday plus the fact that his campaign headquarters stopped taking questions about this topic is any indicator - I see a long second look being given to this contract.
RD I just asked my daughters in law, one of whom is a medical assistant, what they were told about alcohol. They both said no alcohol, no smoking period. Guess some docs just look at this differently.
This was the most current CDC release on the subject. It seems they confer with my DIL’s docs.
Alcohol Consumption Among Women Who Are Pregnant or Who Might Become Pregnant — United States, 2002
Alcohol use during pregnancy is associated with health problems that adversely affect the mother and fetus (1,2); no level of alcohol consumption during pregnancy has been determined safe (3). Fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS) is recognized as the foremost preventable condition involving neurobehavioral and developmental abnormalities (1). Women who drink during pregnancy place themselves at risk for having a child with FAS or fetal alcohol spectrum disorders (FASD)
Well well
Hank whines about the blog and it’s Nathan as usual causing trouble.
JR that is a cheap shot and there were three people involved in that dust up. We have had so many ‘new comers’ this weekend who even knows who is here anymore. It’s getting to be a huge drag and not worth the effort.
I think McCain just armed any dem. pres. opponent. This is going to end up biting him in the butt.
http://riehlworldview.com/
I didn’t address Nathan until he took a shot at me there ksgrm. And there aren’t any new comers about. Just one or two people playing with nics.
Phantom you are right about McCain. I will be voting Obama and hope in 4 years he will show voters what his inexperience will do.
JR what happened over the weekend with Door King and the many new nics wasn’t pretty. It was low class and he and his ilk should be kicked off in my OHO. I was disgusted by the whole exchange and didn’t even blog. If that is the kind of dialogue the editors want then I guess they have it.
Guess some docs just look at this differently.
Maybe more than just “some”, ksgrm. Or maybe those “some” understand and know the patients they’ve told this would not abuse alcohol.
OTOH, neither my daughter(s) nor I did much drinking when pregnant. One or two drinks during a 9 month period did no harm.
Now if you want to move on to smoking, here’s a good one for you. Of my 4, I smoked with the first 3. With the last, I had quit several months before becoming pregnant. The health industry says that smaller birth weight is a result of smoking during pregnancy. My 4th was the smallest. Smoking, it is said, can also cause birth defects. My 4th was born without a soft spot. Freaky, huh?
Except for me, I have a twenty one year old that is a product of a high speed blow out.
My 4-year-old grandson is the same, WS. :)
Anti-American tree-hugging French actress Marion Cotillard, 32, accused American shadow government or business interests or both of conspiratorial lies, arson, and mass murder in the 9/11 attacks, as well as world-wide fraud pretending to land men on the moon.
Ahh, the French again. Do they all have brains on drugs?
“I cannot make a choice for a woman, particularly a black or brown or poor pregnant woman. . . . I personally am opposed to abortion, but I will not judge anybody else’s right in that regard because I am not a woman and I could never face the actual reality of it.”
. . . Hollywood Democrat activist actor Martin Sheen, in a 2003 interview, who probably would never personally own and abuse slaves, either, while not judging anyone else’s right to do so, just like he doesn’t judge abortion mills for targeting the black race
. . .
Funny, I don’t remember peacenik Hollywood actor Martin Sheen denouncing any abortion mills, abortionist quacks, or pro-abortion Democrats. But he’s getting the Laetare Medal at Notre Dame, partly because somebody says Sheen is pro-life. Sheen has been listed as a supporter of Feminists for Life and of Seamless Garment Network, a network which, some might say, looks for excuses to vote for pro-abortion Democrats by lowering the priority of pro-life issues in favor of other diversionary “humanitarian” issues, like government handouts and animal “rights” being fronted to keep abortion mill profits high. Sheen is noted for campaigning for such extremely pro-abortion candidates as Howard “Howler” Dean and John “Flip-Flop” Kerry.
You’re melting down there Parkay… that happens often with fake butter!! LOL
“parkay” brings up –
“…John “Flip-Flop” Kerry.
Oh, and I can feel your outrage at “Flip-Flops.”
Like when John W. McBush declared evangelical Republicans as “agents of hate” until he embraced Jerry Falwell and John Hagee? Or like when he opposed Shrub’s tax-cuts for the ultra-rich until McCain supported them? Or like how the Arizona senator broke under the torture of Republic Party zealots and voted *in favor* of torture after 35 years of vocally opposing it?
The “Straight Talk Express” sure seems to zig-zag a lot.
So is Parkay jealous of Martin Sheen for getting a prestigious award from Notre Dame?
If Sheen says he’s pro-life then he is.
McCain says he’s pro-life now when he used to be proChoice so what!?
In a decision entered Friday, U.S. District Judge David H. Coar, a leftist, activist, baby-hating puppet of the ACLU, rejected a request from Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan to dissolve a 1996 order that put the state’s parental notification law on hold. Underage mothers will continue flocking to Illinois, now that the chances of any enforcement of the law enacted by the state’s elected legislators in 1984 appear gone.
Currently, 35 states have parental notification or permission laws restricting abortion, and most states enforce them. The ACLU says that parental notification or consent laws should not be enacted or enforced, because of fears held by some underage mothers of abuse, neglect or being tossed from the house – the exact fears often exploited to coerce young mothers into filthy, unsafe abortion mills.
Tanker Contract:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/feedarticle?id=7354103
Reuters Monday March 3 2008 By Andrea Shalal-Esa
WASHINGTON, March 3 (Reuters) - Boeing Co failed to beat Northrop Grumman Corp in any of the key criteria in the $35 billion tanker aircraft competition won by Northrop and its European partner, according to a defense analyst with close ties to the Air Force.
“This was not a close outcome in any sense of the term,” the analyst, Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute, told Reuters. “Northrop won decisively and completely, and Boeing simply was not competitive in the major measures.”
Thompson said in a report on Monday that Boeing matched the appeal of the Northrop bid only in the area of proposal risk. And that came only after Air Force reviewers pressed Boeing to stretch out its aggressive development schedule for a new version of its 767 jet, which in turn added cost.
In fact, the Boeing proposal was initially rated as “high-risk” because reviewers were concerned that Boeing’s proposal to build a new version of the 767, using parts from other versions, would cost more than expected.
Northrop proposed a tanker based on the Airbus A330 aircraft built by Europe’s EADS. The Northrop-EADS team won decisively in four of the five criteria set by the Air Force: mission capability, past performance, price, and an integrated fleet assessment, according to Thompson.
MORE PLANES SOONER
Thompson’s report provided more detailed information than the Air Force did on Friday, including an assessment by Air Force reviewers that buying the Boeing tanker would have resulted in a much slower tanker replacement rate.
“The reviewers concluded that if they funded the Northrop Grumman proposal, they could have 49 superior tankers operating by 2013, whereas if they funded the Boeing proposal, they would have only 19 considerably less capable planes in that year,” Thompson said.
Northrop got higher ratings due to “satisfactory” execution on six programs deemed relevant to the tanker competition.
Boeing had expected to face tough competition from Northrop on cost, but it compounded its problems by failing to adequately explain its assumptions in calculating the cost of developing a tanker, Thompson said.
“The resulting low confidence in Boeing cost projections undercut its claims of lower life-cycle costs,” he said.
Northrop also did better on a complicated computer model designed to compare how the competing planes would fare in an operational setting using a realistic wartime scenario.
The review found Northrop could accomplish specified missions with nearly two dozen fewer planes than the Boeing proposal, considered a “big advantage,” Thompson said. (Reporting by Andrea Shalal-Esa; editing by John Wallace)
Well Max, the Air Force will just have to wait when that Euro priced EADS Air Frame is built in France.
Then, when it gets the dog squeeze beat out it due to not to a price raise, but when the Euro is valued more than the dollar.
Then the men in blue will be back at the Pentagon, setting up a committee asking for more funds from Congress. :)
Vaughn Tolle Posted March 3, 2008 at 2:00 pm
“compare apples to apples. The $12,000 per in the district compared to $6500 - $7,000 per in the private school does not.”
I said it wasn’t a level playing field but the differences are shockingly excessive.
I’m sick and tired of paying more and more and more for the same rotten apples.
Why are we paying for all that’s not directly related to teaching that is provided by public schools that the private schools do not yet the private schools are beating them at everything.
The cost savings of Northrup vs Boeing is $55 BILLION.
I have a two-part solution:
- 1.1 million Kansas residents in and around Wichita will be given $50,000 for doing nothing. (That is $55 BILLION in savings given away)
- The military will get the larger capacity, more fuel efficient, tanker delivered faster for the same price they would have paid for the Boeing plane.
So, the military gets the best tanker, and Kansas residents get $55 Billion in Government free money.
Happy now?
If anyone was causing trouble, it was Doug.
WS Clark and I were doing our usual banter and Doug was on the sidelines taking shots.
I made a comment which was in no way a threat. the editors deleted it. Doug began to do his usual taking everything out of context and make up crap to throw and did.
I was annoyed with the Editors for basically giving Doug ammo and then not deleting the crap Doug was saying about me.
Eventually the Editors did delete that crap from Doug too.
I already said that I apologize for my part in going back in forth with them in meaningless antics.
That’s right Reg. that’s how the procurement system works. Just get your foot in the door, can always get more.
Boxer, Vaughn clearly outlined a number of differences in the cost for the private versus the public school expenses… Your comparison is still obviously apples to oranges… Level the playing field, and see what you come up with…
“WS Clark and I were doing our usual banter ”
None of my posts were yanked………………..
Say Regular, I really wish an American company made the best tanker aircraft. But that isn’t the case.
And so do we award contracts to 2nd rate American companies and continue the welfare for the big rich mean evil corporations?
Do 2nd rate companies figure out how to compete and be the best, or are they allowed to be mediocre and still get government contracts?
I can here the libs now:
“I’m for Mediocre!”
“I’m for Mediocre!”
“I’m for Mediocre!”
WS Clark,
Why don’t grow up. You are little more than that stupid kid in the back of every bus who doesn’t do anything but taunt other kids and throw things at cars just trying to start something.
I am the kid who can’t help but stand up to the idiots like you.
And here we are again…. sigh.
“It’s a cost issue,” retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney, a FOX military analyst, said. “The cost savings of the Northrop airplane is $55 billion.” The Air Force can retire more KC-135s faster because the new KC-30 has double the hauling capacity.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334190,00.html
Specifications KC-767 KC-45
—————————————————————
Passenger version Boeing 767-200 Airbus A330
Crew 3 3
Length 159ft 2in 192 ft 11 in
Wingspan 156ft 1in 197 ft 10 in
Height 52ft 57 ft
Payloads:
- Passengers 190 226
- Pallets (463L) 19 32
- Aeromedical evacuation 97 patients 113 staff(Patients or staff)
Max fuel capacity: 202,000+ lbs 250,000 lbs
Max takeoff weight: 400,000+ lbs Not available
Engine NA (GE’s CF6-80E1A4B with 72,000 lb thrust)
http://uk.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUKL0348442520080303
Boxlock, I understand what you are saying. What I’m trying to get to isn’t that the district is or is not doing a good job with many of its students (it isn’t, IMO, but I think that there are many reasons for that, not all within the control of USD 259). If the playing field was leveled, with only the same students in the district as are in the private school, I’d speculate that: 1) There would not be an average of $12,000 per student being spent, but less; 2) the performance of those in USD 259 would be comparable to those in private schools. What, then, would happen to the other students?
There are some things that 259 does well; Special Ed is one of them. There are many questions, though, that I have about what is happening to Joe or Jane Average student. While we can discuss at length our perceptions of what is and is not going well, and, BTW, I do not believe the State Assessment results are accurate reflections thereof but that’s with which we are stuck, the one thing that “Grading Our Schools” makes abundantly clear: those schools with a high population of students who are defined as being “in poverty” are not doing well on State Assessments. That, I think you might concede, is not a problem for most if not all the private schools.
Is this alone a good reason to not vote for the Bond Issue in the upcoming May 6 election? It may be for you and others; I’ve other problems with the same, as have been posted before.
25% more fuel capacity on the Airbus vs the Boeing.
Dunno Max, during my tenure in the Air Force, I can’t say I have ever seen or heard of a French aircraft tanker equivalent to what the Air Force had in inventory.
So I can’t say if the French have the best tanker, because I’ve never seen nor heard of any. :D
“I am the kid who can’t help but stand up to the idiots like you.”
And WHO got the thread taken down because he couldn’t control his violent tendencies?
Not me.
Who could it be now? Who had their posts deleted?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm……………..
Could it be the violent Marine fundamentalist?
BTW, Boxlock, many of the things being paid for by USD 259 which are not, in your opinion, directly related to teaching are things that are mandated by federal and state law, Special Ed being one of these (including the costs of transportation of these students). Similarly, “free and reduced lunch” is something that the private schools don’t deal with. Transportation is another; there are statutory provisions that deal with transportation that apply to the public schools. I think these are things to which you refer, and if I’m wrong, you will let me know what it is with which you are concerned.
One issue which comes to mind regarding this is parts.
25-40 years from now when the Airbus is our primary refueling source in the air, will our parts supply be ok?
Having been to several countries and seeing their military equipment, I have seen first hand what happens 20 years after the fact.
Sure, Russia has sold a ton of military equipment to other countries, but if those countries don’t have an active supply chain of parts to fix them and keep them operational they are worthless.
I am not saying this would happen to us, but just a thought.
When I was in Argentina training with their military for a couple of days, they only had two operation Amphibious assault vehicles. Neither could go in the water.
That was out of around 100 vehicles we sold them a decade before.
Most of that was probably due to their own inability to afford the parts, but if we didn’t want to give them any parts it would hurt.
I also argued that it was kind of a good reason to be the supplier of military planes and other equipment to other countries as well.
If they ever got out of hand, we cut off the parts.
Those planes don’t fly for very long without parts.
Regular we are seeing the result of Sherman anti-trust not being enforced.
Boeing and MD merge and that’s allowed. Didn’t lesson competition did it?
Northrup used to be American.
Where’s Lockheed now?
Makes me sick, but look at the specs on my link, and review the pros/cons and cost and time savings.
It’s a no brainer. Unless you are for corporate welfare. Giving Boeing the contract even if they didn’t EARN it.
What?
Corporate “welfare” creates jobs in America?
Say it isn’t so!
WS Clark,
What was violent or threatening about my post?
Anyone driving only 100% made in America cars today?
What?
You buy the Toyotas because they get better mileage and have fewer break downs?
How un-American of you!
Yet you don’t like it when the DOD does the same thing. Hmmmm…..
Nathan, you really think Clark would know?
Regular, while I was in the Air Force, there wasn’t anything in the inventory of tankers which had any “French Connection”. Taking a look at the wiki article on the Airbus proposal (are the Brits still involved with EADS?), it appears that the Brits, the Aussies, and at least one of the Arab states (which one escapes me, I think the Saudis) are ahead of the U.S. in line for the tanker based on the Airbus frame. The question which then occurs is whether, due to this international flavor, it (the Airbus tanker) has advantages for contemplated future ops with foreign allied forces, in addition to the larger capacity, etc., listed by Max above.
I change my statement.
There was nothing violent or threatening about my post.
“What was violent or threatening about my post?”
Damn, Price, they deleted it so how would I know. I do know that shortly after that, they shut down the thread after deleting just your posts.
Even this mean old foul mouthed liberal never got a threat shutdown.
In fact, the only threads that I have known to have been shutdown have been taken off because of the comments by CONservatives.
What does that tell you?
I bet you are secretly PROUD of yourself for getting the thread shutdown, Price, after all, you wanted them all to be shutdown.
So much for your dedication to the Constitution - the First Amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech, etc.
Loser.
Max what you are saying could be true. But you and I don’t know that do we. If I told you I could landscape your yard for 50% less that Surburban Landscaping would you give me the contract?
Now I have never landscaped a yard in my life but I planted a veg garden a few years ago. It didn’t do bad. The blooms kept falling off the vines and my melons and cucumbers looked a little funny (no one told me not to plant together).
Do you get my point? All Airbus has is a prototype. They haven’t built anything yet.
Sometimes bigger isn’t always better. They learned that lesson with the C5A Galaxy.
Besides, I’m unsure if the EADS aircraft can handle all the smaller runways around the world -
- especially for the medics.
The reason being, I’ve sat in operations and watch the “Nightingales” take off to destinations unknown to most, but known in operations to do pick up of sick or injured embassy, department of State, DoD, etc. etc. that had to land at very small Airports. Not sure if the giant EADS can take off or land in these places.
The thought that occurs to me right away are the “wake turbulent” created by a larger aircraft. Flying a jet fighter behind a huge aircraft that leaves an “air wake stream” the size of a football field is going to be challenging for refueling.
The other thing are re-building and re-training “kit managers.” The kit managers are located in maintenance depots like Tinker AFB and etc. What they do is keep essential parts for the various systems on a particular aircraft. It’s mostly automated now, but they still have to know that when they get widget X it is actually the same widget X, the maintenance supervisor is asking for.
Re-training the maintenance personnel will be required as well. I’m sure the Avionics on the EADS is different from the Boeing KC series. This means new Tech Specs being written, engineering standards, new Technical training at the military schools, new tools, new procedures for flight checks, etc. etc. - this will all be new money that will be required.
Plus, the pilots and the aircrew members will need to be re-trained - more money.
Since the EADS is going to be the new “Nightingale,” the medics are going to want to test stability, vibration, altitude shift and cabin pressure stabilization, EMI from the cabin on their medical electronics, and etc. Of course, more retraining for the medics on retraining.
Lots of extra dollars, perhaps in the billions, that wasn’t included in the contract that the Air Force will have to plead to Congress to get, because it’s not currently a programmed budget item.
The thought of the paperwork, new regulations, technical specification manuals and etc. is enough to make my head spin.
Glad I’m retired. :D
Reg that is the one point where the AF said the Boeing product was best in. It could use smaller runways and therefore would have more versitility and be able to be located closer to the action.
HANK Price gets a meeting with Brownlee to “end the ugliness and profanity” on the Blog and who is going to be the first regular poster to be banned - why Hank’s own little boy, NATHAN Price, because he can’t control his violent tendencies.
Somehow, there is some poetic justice in there.
If you didn’t see what someone posted, yet you still went on to say that it was violent and further speculated about it…
I’d say that would make you a liar.
I was not violent nor do I have violent tendencies.
WS Clark, you are a liar. And if anyone is the first to get banned, I have my money on MonkyHawk, Doug, Apophis, and you.
Danger Will Robinson!
Blog poster meltdown!
Danger! Danger!
Quit provoking Nathan, WSClark.
No one appreciates your constant taunting and provocations. Yeah you’re good at it, what an accomplishment…
Boeing proposed a slower, smaller tanker with less range than the competition. Boeing was counting on “buy American” jingoism. And frankly, there’s a case to be made to have American taxpayers’ money go for American-made products.
But Boeing couldn’t come up with a better product for the money.
Especially since there hasn’t been a new mass-produced air tanker designed in 50 years, the whole argument that the French (or anyone else) haven’t “designed a tanker” loses a bit of its credibility.
French Champagne is better too, but I’m not paying the price difference for a ‘name.’
Experience matters when it comes to military equipment because of the MIL SPECs involved.
If EADS keeps the bid, they are going to walk into the night mare of dealing with MIL SPEC (military specification) requirements which can be maddening.
There is stuff that military does and tests for, that no one else in the world does or requires.
Oh, so now McCain isn’t certain what he thinks about the tanker deal! It’s already biting him in the butt! At least the dems. put American labor first.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080303/air_force_tankers_mccain.html?.v=1
Don’t forget, Hillary, Daily Show, tonight…be there!
The real cost will come with the spares (parts) I’ve seen companies sell the primary aircraft at nearly break even knowing the real profit would come further down the supply chain. And, when it’s 3 dollars to a euro we’ll pay through the nose.
While details of the decision are not fully clear, “it is troubling that the Bush administration would award the second-largest Pentagon contract in our nation’s history to a team that includes a European firm that our government is simultaneously suing at the (World Trade Organization) for receiving illegal subsidies,” Clinton said.