Open thread 3/24

thread

193 Comments

  1. Pepper
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    Vice President Cheney flipping off the American people yet again!

    http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/19/cheney-poll-iraq/

  2. Pepper
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 5:26 am | Permalink

    Thank you HR for your thoughts.

    Now if the Republican candidate and current administration could be as honest perhaps we could actually have a free and robust America.

  3. jay rollins
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 5:56 am | Permalink

    HR here is some honest thought The gop is the party of racists and bigots
    and always has been i.e.the Southern stratagy they employ.Be honest the gop is the party of HATE,and death.BE HONEST!!!!

  4. Songbird
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    Changing the subject (which I have every right to do): Tonight at 7:00 p.m. (CST) another episode of “Dancing With the Stars” airs.

    I am begging everyone to please vote for Adam. I fear he may be sent home tomorrow - either him or Penn Jillette. And I don’t want that to happen. The Very First Man looks so very, very fine in his Very First Tux - and he’s so darned funny - the one-liners just roll from his larynx like the multiple alibis from O.J.’s “dream team.”

    Please - do it for me. Forty-nine ain’t exactly a fulsome age for a fearful, fractured femme. So I’ve gotta find diversions (and, no, not a drug diversion program - I beat my opiate addiction long ago. So there.).

    Please. Do it for the Songbird. You might just earn your star in heaven if you do.

  5. Hud
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    Sorry Songbird, I do not watch, I do not vote. Guess I will not be getting my star in heaven.

  6. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    What a racist post.

    I doubt seriously that ‘Honest Republican’ is ‘honest’ or a ‘Republican’ but one of our faithful posting leftist libs who like to post early in the morning.

    In fact, the only posters who have used the “N” word on this blog is narrowed down to two Radical Left Libs and that Horst Wessell dude.

    Odd that Pepper would heap praise on him for using such language don’t you think. Brought your own cheer leading crowd eh Pepper?

  7. Songbird
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:30 am | Permalink

    Actually, you may be goin’ up there anyway. Writer Peter Gethers named one of his new kittens “Hud” - and I revere Peter Gethers as I revere very few humans on this planet (He wrote “The Norton Trilogy” about his brilliant Scottish Fold cat) - so you just may be beatified in spite of it all…….

  8. J R
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Just saw this reasonably good looking woman claim on Fox that “Democrats are going to be surprised it is going to be a great year for Republicans!”

    Now outside the fact that this poor girl is obviously mentally ill, I had to wonder.

    How does any woman vote Republican? What they have a guy with a thick pair of boots to kick them with and they are happy baking cookies? More, how does ANYONE but a mean tight wad rich old white man vote Republican?

  9. LR
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    “In fact, the only posters who have used the “N” word on this blog is narrowed down to two Radical Left Libs and that Horst Wessell dude.”

    You’d have a difficult time proving that — in fact that post is the first time I’ve seen the term used here —— (been here about 6 months)

  10. Herbert West III/Pub
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    As a Republican I am not a Bigot. As a Human Being I am not a Bigot. Not all Ethnic Differences are Bigots against one and another. Stereotyping is Bigotry. Thanks Herbert West III west.herb@yahoo.com P.S. The Wyandottes should not be “Bribing” the State to get a Casino In Park City. They are not, Sac/Fox, Kickapoo, Poawatomie or White Cloud. I am Indian and I cannot open a Casino in Kansas. Nor can the “”Bribe Tribe of Wyandotte”"!!! Bribery is not Soveriegn it is stupid!!!!!!!!! HLWIII

  11. Honest Democrat
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    Yeah JR, how can those women who are used to laying on their backs to get what they want, possibly be Republican?

    They love getting free stuff too!

  12. Hud
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    LR, you must have missed a couple of post. I have seen it a several times. Of course, the editors did delete the messages.

    I do not remember who posted the word.

  13. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    Let’s check out just how ‘Honest’ and how ‘Republican’ the 5:15 a.m. poster is shall we?

    First of all, the post is lifted right from the pages of Salon.com, a very progressive Radical left Liberal Website.

    Check out the phrase in the first sentence and notice that “black” has been substituted for “white.”

    On the other hand, I am sick to death of white people as a group.

    To read the rest of the plagiarized comments check out it here at Salon.com at the URL below under the Easter thoughts from Orange county.

    http://letters.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/23/race/view/index2.html?show=all

    Then go back and read the 5:15 a.m. post. You will find the post is lifted right from that Secular Progressive Website and the words changed to make it appear that a Republican has that view.

    I knew it was a Leftist Radical posting it the moment I saw it.

    Not only is the ‘Honest Republican’ a plagiarist, he is dishonest and a Radical Left Lib (aka Democrat); he is also a racist who seeks to fan the fans by posting deceitful lies.

    Welcome to my ‘eagle eye’ view of the world, you won’t get away with crap like that with me around. :)

  14. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    er fan the fans

    should read as

    fan the flames…

  15. jay rollins
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    Hey herb the gop is the party of hate the only thing they stand for is to stand against everything
    they hate both dems.running for office,they hate
    immigrants,they hate muslims,they anyone that does not walk lockstep with every idea.Tell me one thing your party stands for that does not involve death,and hate.Just one!!

  16. Komrade
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:02 am | Permalink

    Let’s face it - Obama signed his own death warrant with his elegant, but ridiculous speech aimed at placating instead of uniting.

    He needed to distance himself from Wright but he refused to do so - that will cost him the nomination (probably), the general (surely).

    Is he naive, stupid, condescending or a combination of all three? Does he actually expect the media to forget that he was confronted with Wright’s hateful preaching way back in the fall and yet he continued to keep him on as spiritual adviser? Wake up Obama! No one is falling for your manipulations.

    The first post calling blacks the “n” word is unforgivable. That, in itself, will assure the militant blacks have the fodder to justify Wright’s hateful rantings. Real Republicans are not like. Real Republicans are the party who introduced and passed civil right’s legislation to begin with.

    Obama’s bright star is dimming as it was destined to do so.

    Those who believe, arrogantly, that they can pull in the voters without presenting a plan of substance, are fated to fail in the long run. We should count ourselves lucky that Obama, the little fascist was revealed before he became the democrat nominee.

  17. LR
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    You said this referring to the post:

    “In fact, the only posters who have used the “N” word on this blog is narrowed down to two Radical Left Libs and that Horst Wessell dude.”

    but your response lists references to liberal sites — did they post here? I didn’t say they didn’t happen I said I never saw one - so you might be able to prove a “liberal” has posted that here — but you would have a hard proving that a conservative, moderate et al didn’t post it — some thing about not being able to prove a negative

    Does that explain my statement better?

  18. Komrade
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    jay rollins,

    Your posts are as silly as the poster who called blacks the “n” word. Both of you are filled with hatred. He for blacks and you for Repbulicans.

    Just the opposite side of the same coin.

  19. jay rollins
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    Herb i should also include or a lie so name me one thing the gop stands for that does not include death or hate or lies (thought you might go with the UNFUNDED no child left behind)

  20. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    Here’s a clue to who the 5:15 a.m. poster might be. They quote Chomsky often and they are an Obama supporter.

  21. jay rollins
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    Komrade i ask you the same question as herb
    bring it on!!! bushism of the day

  22. LR
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    hmmm just reread your post reg — I thought it was directed at my post — my apologies

  23. Komrade
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    jay rollins,

    Bring WHAT on? Are you some kind of nut?

  24. jay rollins
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    what regular no love for noam

  25. jay rollins
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    komrade name one thing the gop stands for that does not include death, hate or lies anything!

  26. jay rollins
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    BY the way komrade i have no haterd for the gop i will be voting mccain in nov.I love my country and have become sickened by what she has become in the last seven years

  27. Komrade
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Jay,

    Read your history and find out which party introduced the civil rights bills and which party voted to approve them.

    You may be surprised to find that it was Democrats voting against them from the beginning.

    Go ahead. I dare you. I double dare you.

  28. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    reposted for clarity and exposing the fraud of the 5:15 a.m. post

    #

    Let’s check out just how ‘Honest’ and how ‘Republican’ the 5:15 a.m. poster is shall we?

    First of all, the post is lifted right from the pages of Salon.com, a very progressive Radical left Liberal Website.

    Check out the phrase in the first sentence and notice that “black” has been substituted for “white.”

    On the other hand, I am sick to death of white people as a group.

    To read the rest of the plagiarized comments check out it here at Salon.com at the URL below under the Easter thoughts from Orange county.

    http://letters.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/23/race/view/index2.html?show=all

    Then go back and read the 5:15 a.m. post. You will find the post is lifted right from that Secular Progressive Website and the words changed to make it appear that a Republican has that view.

    I knew it was a Leftist Radical posting it the moment I saw it.

    Not only is the ‘Honest Republican’ a plagiarist, he is dishonest and a Radical Left Lib (aka Democrat); he is also a racist who seeks to fan the flames by posting deceitful lies.

    Welcome to my ‘eagle eye’ view of the world, you won’t get away with crap like that with me around. :)

  29. Say What?
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    got it — twas my bad

  30. jay rollins
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    Your right komrade maybe i should have phrased it different In the last 40 years can you tell me what the gop stands for that does not include death,hate,or lies

  31. Songbird
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Could someone explain the deletion policies on this Blog? Early this moan-in’, I left a second post on yesterday’s blog (3/23). It was eventually deleted, yet some dude usin’ the “n” word besides Johnnie Cochran is allowed?

    What gives?

    I’m feeling rejected. I’m feeling nondescript. Am I really as bad as all that AND the Wednesday papers?

  32. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    I doubt your post was deleted on a Sunday Songbird. The WE Editorial Department doesn’t do squat with the blog over the weekend.

    Most likely Wordpress ate your post.

  33. lindainks55
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    What policies does McCain have that differ from the current administration? I’ve searched his website, used “the” google, asked, along with many others, here and on other boards. Are there any differences between McCain and the current administration?

  34. jay rollins
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    Yes sen.McCain is against using our food supply for
    fuel to power our suv’s

  35. Songbird
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    I made the post this morning. I used yesterday’s Blog ’cause I wanted to respond to a trio of people. An hour later, it was as obsolete as a defense attorney at a truth serum seminar.

    Oh, I am just SO-O-O-O hurt.

    Continual rejection, incessant cessation and subtle rebukin’ can damage a sensitive woman’s psyche…..

  36. Ken
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Parents - grandparents — etc …. homeowners etc …

    Have you seen the little kiosks at malls that will take your picture and convert it to a sketch — some with choices of style

    Here is a link to a free download of one of those type programs:

    http://www.newfreedownloads.com/find/photo-to-sketch.html

    You have to play with the adjustment bars to remove border / edge of face lines — but it gets simpler — but you can also make sketches of your house etc … from a pic

    Have to look for the free download of foto sketch 6.0

  37. Ken
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Oh — I have no finanacial interest or whatever on the product — just a parent etc …

  38. writerdog
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    Songbird, if the thread becomes too long it is often truncated, but I agree I had lost a post and one was left up that was nothing but hateful tripe.

  39. Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Concerning the first post on this thread, this looks more like its origin.

    http://thepoorman.net/2008/03/23/it-looks-like-i-picked-the-wrong-week-to-stop-injecting-hard-liquor-into-my-REPLACEME/

    You will have to replace REPLACE ME with the proper term for the male appendage. The blog won’t let me put that dirty word here :-(

    Regular, the link you provided simply swaps the races, as the last line of the post states.

  40. lindainks55
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    jay rollins Posted March 24, 2008 at 7:35 am

    Yes sen.McCain is against using our food supply for
    fuel to power our suv’s
    ————

    This would be a position that is both different and better. Do you have a cite? Is this your opinion?

  41. sursum
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    HR: Subsitiute the N word and I’ll agree with you. What you are looking at, if you can get past the optics, is a poor disenfranchised group with a reliance on a community/herd mentality that foster those things we fear, but then I’ve seen Latios do the same. I saw my generation get uset about the black dress, hair modes, zoot suits, beebop and grass along with sky pieces and strides. There are two Americas one in charge and the serfs, the latter mostly minorities. The ubercapitalist have destroyed what was left of the working man whose population was overly representeed by minorites. At one time black tradesmen were bringing home a good wage, but they have been displace on a greater scale than the rest of society by illegals who will work for almost nothing, and they know that whitey could care less if he can improve his bottom line. This is especially true in the labor trades. In LA, the plasteres union was mostly black and making a good wage until the Latinos said they’ll work real cheap, which they are now doing displacing blacks. Think of it, liberal LA making a buck off illegals! I’ve seen black areas in Detroit with well groomed homes and grounds go down the tube. The real power was never affected by cheap labor just the guys on the lowest ladder rung, as per usual. You are observing the results of economic prostituion not an inherent social malais in one community.

  42. lindainks55
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Convention schedule puts GOP in NFL conflict

    “The GOP is holding their convention from Sep 1-4, and the nominee normally gives his or her speech on Thursday evening, just after 10:00 EST. This is a big problem for NBC and the NFL. NBC pays a lot of money to show NFL games. But there’s no way they would take the political heat and not show McCain’s speech, and its unlikely the NFL would want to take the heat either. Yes, the speech would be available on the other networks, but the football game would attract a major audience, and the GOP, would, and appropriately so, raise a big stink.”

    http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/02/convention-schedule-puts-gop-in-nfl.html

  43. RD
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    Regular,

    Please tell us again how you’ve never copy & pasted anything you’ve not attributed to the author.

  44. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    So you approve of the post at 5:15 a.m. then RD?

    Appears that RD wants to encourage that kind of posting.

    Else why would RD try to flip it around back on me for something like plagiarism.

    True colors are really starting to show around here.

  45. Honest Democrat
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    Let’s be honest. All us Democrats want to live off all you rich Republicans.

    Raise taxes on the rich so us Democrats can sit around and drink beer and watch TV.

    We will vote for whoever promises to give us the most free stuff!

  46. Komrade
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    “Your right komrade maybe i should have phrased it different In the last 40 years can you tell me what the gop stands for that does not include death,hate,or lies”
    ———

    Patriotism, Capitalism, Personal responsibility, initiative, integrity, entrepreneurship, social stability….for starters.

  47. ksfarmgrrl
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    I guess I may have missed it, but..

    No post on passing the milestone of 4000 “official” deaths in Iraq?

    If you really supported the troops, you’d bring them home.

  48. Pepper
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    kfg
    Cheney spent Wednesday, the 5th anniversary of the war, not mourning the dead he killed, but fishing off the Sultan of Oman’s royal yacht.

    If it doesn’t bother the Dick then why should it bother anyone else?

    As the Dick might say…”so?”

  49. Max
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Clinton’s been lounging in Dubai for years. Making $10 million/year on this “deal”. Don’t be too hard on Cheney now, unless you want to pick on Clinton too.

    Where are your tax returns MRS. CLINTON?

    http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120244218426953055-5gR8jauygBJeRy7HuV6X1YuD_QU_20080309.html

    “Mr. Clinton is also a partner in a Yucaipa global investment fund that focuses on investing in foreign companies. Mr. Clinton is one of three owners of the general partner of that fund, along with Mr. Burkle, who is the managing partner, and an entity connected to Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, the ruler of Dubai.”

  50. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    kfg,

    We let the party of ghouls, the Democrats, keep track of body counts. They like using those statistics for their glorification of their party.

  51. Komrade
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    “If you really supported the troops, you’d bring them home.”

    —————–

    Now there’s a nonsensical statement.

  52. J R
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    STILL no thread on the radical affiliations of John McCain?

    I smell bias at the Eagle…

    Is this like when they wouldn’t give us a Tiahrt thread before the last election?

  53. Max
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    From a trusted DemoRat website:

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132×4985715

    SENATOR CLINTON VOTED YES TO ALLOW THE EMIR OF DUBAI BUY U.S. FACTORIES MAKING TANKS AND MILITARY AIRCRAFT

    HAD ANYBODY HEARD OF THIS?? This never received any press at all. This is a true sellout — letting the Emir or terror-ridden, corrupt Dubai buy defense plants in the United States? How many Hillary supporters think this was a godd idea? HMMM? This is far worse for Hillary because she actually voted YES on this one (because it was not in the spotlight like Dubai Ports World)

  54. Max
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Clinton’s Golden Voice
    Bill Clinton earned $31 million in speaking fees between 2001 and 2005, as disclosed in his wife’s Senate ethics reports. This page lists information about each speech and the amount the former president earned.

    http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2007/clinton-speeches/list/

    Look at all the speeches in China! Drug Companies!

    $125,000 from a Synagogue speech!

    $125,000 from Morgan Stanley/Dean Witter!

    $125,000 from Asian Hotel Owners Assn!

    $150,000 from Paris Golf and Country Club!

  55. Max
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    CLASSIC CLINTON:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1590850/posts

    BUBBA AN AGENT FOR DUBAI?

    IS Bill Clinton serving as a lobbyist and public-rela tions guru to the government of Dubai? It sure looks like it.

    He’s been paid a pretty penny by Dubai’s rulers…

  56. ksfarmgrrl
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    I love how the cons here love capitalism.

    Except when they dont…

  57. kscitydude
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    From thinkprogress.org by By Amanda at 10:43 am

    Buchanan: ‘America has been the best country on earth for black folks.’

    In a recent column, right-wing pundit Pat Buchanan attempted to argue that blacks benefited from slavery because they “grew into a community of 40 million” in the United States:

    First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.

    Wright ought to go down on his knees and thank God he is an American.

    Second, no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ’60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream.
    ——————————————–
    And now blacks have come “full circle.” A black will be president of the United States.

  58. ksfarmgrrl
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    …when all else fails?

    BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON!

  59. CF2K
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    Well: four thousand U.S. troops killed as of Easter Sunday, 2008.

    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Iraq.html?hp

    Way to go, war apologists: four more families sacrificing a loved one, for a war that never has been explained.

    Way to go, war apologists. Way to go.

  60. Grateful_Dave
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Any Pot addicts out there? This is your lucky day!

    Calling B.S. on the Idea of ‘Marijuana Addiction’

    By Paul Armentano, AlterNet. Posted March 22, 2008.

    The U.S. government believes that America is going to pot — literally.

    Earlier this month, the U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse announced plans to spend $4 million to establish the nation’s first-ever “Center on Cannabis Addiction,” which will be based in La Jolla, Calif. The goal of the center, according to NIDA’s press release, is to “develop novel approaches to the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of marijuana addiction.”

    Not familiar with the notion of “marijuana addiction”? You’re not alone. In fact, aside from the handful of researchers who have discovered that there are gobs of federal grant money to be had hunting for the government’s latest pot boogeyman, there’s little consensus that such a syndrome is clinically relevant — if it even exists at all.

    But don’t try telling that to the mainstream press — which recently published headlines worldwide alleging, “Marijuana withdrawal rivals that of nicotine.” The alleged “study” behind the headlines involved all of 12 participants, each of whom were longtime users of pot and tobacco, and assessed the self-reported moods of folks after they were randomly chosen to abstain from both substances. Big surprise: they weren’t happy.

    And don’t try telling Big Pharma — which hopes to cash in on the much-hyped “pot and addiction” craze by touting psychoactive prescription drugs like Lithium to help hardcore smokers kick the marijuana habit.

    And certainly don’t try telling the drug “treatment” industry, whose spokespeople are quick to warn that marijuana “treatment” admissions have risen dramatically in recent years, but neglect to explain that this increase is due entirely to the advent of drug courts sentencing minor pot offenders to rehab in lieu of jail. According to state and national statistics, up to 70 percent of all individuals in drug treatment for marijuana are placed there by the criminal justice system. Of those in treatment, some 36 percent had not even used marijuana in the 30 days prior to their admission. These are the “addicts”?

    Indeed, the concept of pot addiction is big business — even if the evidence in support of the pseudosyndrome is flimsy at best.

  61. Max
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    The Income and Foreign Investment Ties of Bill Clinton are also the Income and Foreign Investment Ties of Hillary Clinton.

    It’s one thing to EARN $$, it’s another thing to have foreign countries buy influence by funneling money through a former President.

    http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120097424021905843.html?mod=blog

    Bill Clinton May Get Payout of $20 Million
    By JOHN R. EMSHWILLER
    January 22, 2008; Page A1

    Former President Clinton stands to reap around $20 million — and will sever a politically sensitive partnership tie to DUBAI — by ending his high-profile business relationship with the investment firm of billionaire friend Ron Burkle.

  62. Hank Price
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    Hey Farm Girl,

    The war is either right or wrong. We either did it as well as we could or we didn’t.

    Death toll, although tragic, has nothing to do with the debate. If you want to support the troops, support them.

    The war is now 5 years old, or rather, the occupation is 5 years old. The ‘war’ was over before it started. There are no men and women in Iraq or Afganistan that are not there voluntarily. They’ve all had to either enlist or reenlst knowing full well that they could be in combat somewhere in the Mideast.

    Death 4000 is no more signifigant than death 1 or 28. If you want to support the troops, do it with an honest discussion of their sacrfice and not with left-wing propaganda.

  63. Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Max,

    sounds like someone else we know…

    [David Rubenstein, co-founder and Managing Director of The Carlyle Group, the “world’s largest private equity firm,” recently recounted his first meeting the current president and Bush’s days on the Carlyle board in a speech to the Los Angeles County Employees Retirement Association. LACERA has invested $95 million in Carlyle, now the 11th largest defense contractor in America as majority shareholder in United Defense. For ethical reasons, many in the association would like to see LACERA funds pulled and invested elsewhere.

    http://prorev.com/bushcarlyle.htm

  64. Max
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    All those in Congress who continue to vote to fund the Iraq war, including Democrats, can take credit for 4,000 dead American troops.

    Hillary keeps promising to bring the troops home. That’s why she keeps voting to fund the war!

  65. CF2K
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Dear Nazi,

    And the Bush family takes dirty money–lots and lots of it, in fact–from would-be messiah, the Rev. Sun Young Moon, of the Unification “Church.”

    “Bush Speeches

    Moon also used the Women’s Federation to pay substantial speaking fees to George H.W. Bush, who gave talks at Moon-sponsored events. In September 1995, Bush and his wife, Barbara, gave six speeches in Asia for the Women’s Federation. In one speech on Sept. 14 to 50,000 Moon supporters in Tokyo, Bush said “what really counts is faith, family and friends.”

    Moon’s wife, Hak Ja Han Moon, followed the ex-President and announced that “it has to be Reverend Moon to save the United States, which is in decline because of the destruction of the family and moral decay.” [Washington Post, Sept. 15, 1995]

    In summer 1996, Bush was lending his prestige to Moon again. Bush addressed the Moon-connected Family Federation for World Peace in Washington, an event that gained notoriety when comedian Bill Cosby tried to back out of his contract after learning of Moon’s connection. Bush had no such qualms. [Washington Post, July 30, 1996]

    In fall 1996, Moon needed the ex-President’s help again. Moon was trying to replicate his Washington Times influence in South America by opening a regional newspaper, Tiempos del Mundo. But South American journalists were recounting unsavory chapters of Moon’s history, including his links to South Korea’s feared intelligence service and various neo-fascist organizations.

    In the early 1980s, Moon had used friendships with the military dictatorships in Argentina and Uruguay – which had been responsible for tens of thousands of political murders – to invest in those two countries. There also were allegations of Moon’s links to the region’s major drug traffickers. [For details on the drug ties, see Robert Parry’s Lost History.]”

    http://www.consortiumnews.com/Print/2006/061406.html

  66. Rage
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Some interesting comments from Chris Hedges on the war, the man who wrote War is a force that gives us meaning and <I? The Republican war on science .

    I offer this snippet not to sabotage the Dem candidates (Hedges is rightfully contemptuous of McCain’s position, BTW), but rather to (hopefully) influence the debate among Dems in a positive direction.

    From the article:
    Examine the proposals on Iraq offered by Clinton and Obama. They talk about withdrawing some troops, but they also talk about leaving behind forces to protect U.S. bases in Iraq, assigning troops to train the Iraqi army and continuing the fight against “terrorism.” Clinton and Obama do not throw out numbers, but a rough estimate would be 40,000 or 50,000 troops permanently stationed in Iraq. Obama, his advisers say, will also not rule out continuing to use private security companies like Blackwater Worldwide in Iraq. The war would not end under a Democratic administration. It would drag on until the mission collapsed and the U.S. retreated in humiliation. And when pressed, the Democratic candidates have admitted as much. Tim Russert in the New Hampshire debate asked the Democratic candidates to guarantee that all U.S. troops in Iraq would be home by 2013. No one, including John Edwards, was prepared to make such a commitment. Dennis Kucinich, the only Democratic candidate who opposed a continuation of the war, had been excluded from the debate. When the question was asked he was standing outside the hall in the snow with supporters to protest his exclusion.

    But the lust for militarism by Clinton and Obama does not end with Iraq. The two remaining Democratic candidates back the occupation of Afghanistan. They defend Israel’s indiscriminate bombing of Lebanon, which killed hundreds of Lebanese, destroyed huge parts of Lebanon’s infrastructure and left U.S.-manufactured cluster bombs littered over southern Lebanon. Clinton and Obama praise the right-wing government in Jerusalem and callously blame the Palestinian victims for the suffering inflicted on them by Israel. They support, in open defiance of international law, the 40-year Israeli occupation of Palestinian land and the draconian siege of Gaza, dismissing the grim humanitarian crisis it has unleashed on the 1.5 million Palestinians trapped in the world’s largest open-air prison.

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080323_a_conscientious_objection/

  67. Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    made $15 million off the Texas Rangers deal with the help of $135 million in corporate welfare from Arlington taxpayers;
    took $4.5 million from the business interests clamoring for “tort reform” and rewarded them with laws that make it harder to sue irresponsible businesses; and invited oil industry executives to develop a do-nothing public relations response to the “grandfathered” air pollution problem in Texas.

    The Observer has not yet covered the University of Texas Investment Management Company (UTIMCO) scandal, in which huge sums of money flow back and forth between Bush and his top donors.

    “In 1979, Bush’s first business, Arbusto Energy, obtained financing from James Bath, a Houstonian and close family friend. One of many investors, Bath gave Bush $50,000 for a 5 percent stake in Arbusto. At the time, Bath was the sole U.S. business representative for Salem bin Laden, head of the wealthy Saudi Arabian family and a brother (one of 17) to Osama bin Laden. It has long been suspected, but never proven, that the Arbusto money came directly from Salem bin Laden. In a statement issued shortly after the September 11 attacks, the White House vehemently denied the connection, insisting that Bath invested his own money, not Salem bin Laden’s, in Arbusto.

    http://www.bushwatch.com/bushmoney.htm

  68. CF2K
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Hank Price,

    And if you want to advocate for this war, do so with an honest examination of the reasons for initiating it.

    It absolutely DOES matter whether 4000 troops are killed versus 1, or 28. Because if you kill four thousand Americans for a goal that was never defined and that keeps changing, you’ve dishonered them, both as military personnel and as American citizens.

    Don’t try to shout us down, Hank Price, while spitting on the troops and their families: “they knew they were going to a combat zone.” Unbelievable, your lack of shame.

  69. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Palestinians are trapped because no other Arab country wanted to take them in. They are a pain in everyone’s butt.

  70. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Can’t ever shout da Dems down CF2K, they squeal and grunt 24/7.

    (chortles)

  71. Honest Democrat
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    We have nothing else to do Regular.

    Whining all the time for more free stuff, is what we do for a living.

  72. Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    4,000 dead.

    “Could be six day, six weeks . . . I doubt six months.”

  73. Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Hey, Repukes?

    What “free stuff” have you ever given me?

    I on the other hand have given thousands of my tax dollars to an arena I didn’t want that will primarily benefit people with the expendable income to watch sporting events there.

    I have the income, but not the interest, to attend anything there.

    I have given hundreds of thousands of dollars over many decades to make rich military contractors richer.

    Many studies done over time show that urban Democratic strong-holds like New York and LA give more money to the federal government in taxes while rural red states like Kansas, staunchly Repuke, take more tax money than they pay in.

    The cash-flow is entirely from Democrats to Repukes . . . not the other way around.

  74. Rage
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    P.S. I was curious about Obama’s position on Blackwater. While we shouldn’t be using Blackwater at all , I gotta give him credit. A quick Google search turned up this:

    But words can’t compare to action. Barack Obama got an amendment attached to the Senate Defense bill which requires oversight and accountability of military and security contractors like Blackwater.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/3/131837/222

  75. Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    4,000 dead.

    And here’s why:

    “Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly — yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities.”

    Worst. President. Ever.

  76. Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    I remember very well how we had to fight the Viet Cong “over there, so we wouldn’t have to fight them over here.”

    The Viet Cong, who used sharpened bamboo sticks as weapons. These were the people that stuck our nation into deadly peril . . .

    The wars change . . . the Republican lies stay the same.

  77. cosmos
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    jimmymac, aka, JM, aka Regular, aka Republican, aka ** K H A N **, aka ‘blank’, etc., stole J M Walker’s nic, using TypeKey.

    jimmymac added a false, fictional paragraph about what caused the New Orleans levees to fail to this copy/paste post.
    http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_25-4/#comment-239232

  78. Hank Price
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Dear CF2K,

    I would assume you don’t care to have an honest discussion.

    My Boy went to Iraq, my wife and I were one of the families that started and ended each day with a prayer for his safe return.

    He volunteered. I have met many servicemen that have been to Iraq. Everyone of them believs in what we’re doing. Everyone of them would go back. They all have different ideas on the way we should go about it but they all respect what Bush is trying to do.

    Tere is a goal, a long term goal. It has been defined. It’s the left that uses thiw conflict for entirely short term political purposes. It’s going to bite Obama in the butt come November.

  79. Songbird
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    Mary-juana doesn’t hook you. It sure didn’t hook me. In fact, the first few times I smoked it were pure hell: I started shaking; I became paranoid; my emotions were acute; oh, and this is the big one….

    I first smoked it three days after having a nervous breakdown. Not to be dictatorial here, folks - but….don’t try that one at home.

    It made me ravenously hungry; the “high” didn’t last that long; it didn’t really induce euphoria the way opioid painkillers do. However, it did make my senses more acute. For a lifelong music maven like the Songbird, that was sometimes enjoyable.

    But I could take it or leave it. I left it for good in 1982, when I returned from California and my actress roommate, who had a husband, three boyfriends and a surfeit of porno purveyors who’d come to the house and tie her up while shooting videos.

    That sort of shook this ex-convent-schoolgirl up a bit.

    But addictive? Pot ain’t addictive. For me, it’s sort of like parsley, Ron Parsley, small p—ses and/or rapists: I can do without ‘em. I do, however, believe in legalizing marijuana for cancer patients and glaucoma sufferers. The alleviation of human suffering is more important than a cheap high.

  80. Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Wasn’t it a liberal that got us into Viet Nam and a conservative that got us out?

  81. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Sounds crispy Songbird…

    Pot, bondage, porno shoots and general Hollyfornia merriment involving mammals of choice…

    Were there any crystal pyramids and gold chains involved?

    Perhaps some silk ropes?

  82. J R
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    “Tere is a goal, a long term goal. It has been defined.”

    The first sentence is true.

    The second one is not. And the poster knows it.

  83. ksagnostic
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    “Sounds crispy Songbird…

    “Pot, bondage, porno shoots and general Hollyfornia merriment involving mammals of choice…

    “Were there any crystal pyramids and gold chains involved?

    “Perhaps some silk ropes?”

    Songbird, advice re: Regular
    Do Not Feed The Troll (i.e., don’t respond to his provocation)

  84. Songbird
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Um, I dunno - all I saw was my plethorically promiscuous roommate sitting there - hands tied behind her back - with a bunch of fat, ugly f–ks in three-piece suits filming the sordid goings-on.

    I was only 23 at the time; I didn’t know what the hellola was going on; she owned the house (i.e., her ex-husband owned the house) we were renting, so I couldn’t exactly tell her what to do. She consented to the filming; she wasn’t exactly protesting; so…..

    The Songbird high-tailed it upstairs to her room, dropped her trusty Romeo Void EP onto the turntable, shoved the ol’ headphones onto her cranium; and tried to forget that s–t.

    Not all Californians are freaky, though.

    Now, San Diego - that’s a beautiful area of Southern California. If I could have stomached the idea of makin’ millions from allowing some gutterfart to tie me up, perhaps I’d still be there…….

  85. Songbird
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Sorry, KSAgnostic: Your post appeared too late.

    Is Regular mean? Is he gonna hurt me? Is he gonna make me cry? I sure hope not - ’cause I look ugly as see-yun when I do. (tee-hee)

  86. CF2K
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Hank Price,

    What JR said. What is that “goal,” precisely? What is it “that we’re doing?”

    With 4,000 service personnel dead, and no end in sight, I think this is absolutely the time to have the discussion. Because this Administration has lied and goes on lying about this war, and after five years, we deserve a little bit of truth.

  87. CF2K
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    http://bp0.blogger.com/_dU1mFxzlRNA/R-fShQvmZWI/AAAAAAAAAMk/awds-Q-ZzUM/s1600-h/2008-03-24-picsmal.jpg

  88. cosmos
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Hank Price posted March 24, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Tere is a goal, a long term goal. It has been defined.

    The long-term goal is protecting “our” oil sources.

    Iraq has one of the worlds largest, and cheapest oil reserves.

    Soldiers are being injured and killed, and we’re spending huge amounts of money in an area that does not want us there.

    Meanwhile, we’re neglecting our U.S. infrastructure, our schools, our R&D, and other important items that will determine our future.

  89. Max
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Saving you Democrat koolaide drinkers some time. Here are your talking points for the day:

    http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2008/03/21/friday-talking-points-24-which-side-are-you-on/

    The sixth year of Bush’s Iraq mistake

    Our adventure in Iraq is now five years old. This grim anniversary came and went this week, without much attention in the mainstream media. The media, for the past few months, have all but dropped Iraq as a story. The American people are tired of hearing about it, they reason, therefore it’s not “news” any more.

    Democrats need to remind everyone whenever the subject comes up that we are now starting the sixth year of war, with no end in sight.

    “We are now beginning the sixth year of war in Iraq. This war has gone on much longer than Republicans told us it would, and there is still no end in sight. I just hope in the future we aren’t commemorating the tenth or fifteenth year of war in Iraq… or the 100th, if John McCain gets his wish… and I think the American people have spoken loudly in telling us that the sixth year in Iraq should be our last year in Iraq.”

    Four thousand dead American soldiers

    A worrisome poll out shows that fewer and fewer Americans even know how many Americans have died in Iraq. Another grim anniversary is right around the corner, and because of this rampant ignorance, Democrats need to remind everyone of this number, in support and honor of the brave troops who have given their lives for this misguided cause.

    “Four thousand American servicemen and women have now given the ultimate sacrifice in a war that we never should have entered in the first place. Four thousand sons, daughters, wives, and husbands have now been buried during this war. Four thousand. Never forget these noble Americans.”

    McCain doesn’t even know who we’re fighting

    So John McCain wants to be elected because he has foreign policy experience coming out of his wazoo? Really? Then why, after five years of war, does he not know who our enemies are on the battlefield? I know these things, and I’m just some guy with a computer — I’m not running to be our nation’s leader or anything.

    McCain made this mistake multiple times it should be noted, even after Joe Lieberman corrected him on camera (what are friends for, eh, Joe?). McCain is apparently unaware that the Shi’ite government in Iran is not supplying the Sunni “Al Qaeda in Iraq” with weapons.

    This one is pretty easy, and deserves one heck of a lot more media attention than it has been getting.

    “John McCain can’t tell the difference between Sunni and Shi’ite in Iraq… and this man wants to be our president?!? I think voters will realize that anyone this misinformed — or this senile — would be dangerous to have as Commander-in-Chief.”

    Bush fights for corruption [part 1]

    Abraham Lincoln called war profiteers “worse than traitors.” Franklin Delano Roosevelt spoke against “war millionaires.” Harry Truman used the word “treason” to describe war profiteers.

    George Bush, to no one’s surprise, enables them. And he needs to be called on the carpet for doing so. The White House is currently fighting any questioning of a gigantic loophole in U.S. law (which they mysteriously inserted) big enough to drive a Halliburton truck full of Blackwater employees through. This rule exempts all “contracts to be performed outside the United States” from a rule intended to expose contractor fraud. How convenient.

    “The White House needs to explain why it wants to protect war profiteers from wasting more than the already unaccounted for billions of dollars in Iraq, by specifically exempting contracts performed outside the U.S. from federal anti-fraud rules. Why is President Bush making it easier for contractors to defraud the American government? Rather than ‘the buck stops here,’ Bush seems to have a sign on his desk reading ‘help my Republican buddies steal from the American taxpayer.’”

    Bush fights for corruption [part 2]

    Voices are calling for the resignation of Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Alphonso Jackson, since he apparently takes into consideration party loyalty when handing out HUD money. This is so corrupt it stinks to high heaven, but (as usual) the mainstream media is largely silent. Read about the whole disgusting mess for yourself.

    “We call on President Bush to immediately fire Secretary Jackson, or to accept his resignation the way he did with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. It is one thing to hire and fire lawyers at the Justice Department based on whether they were sufficiently Republican enough, but it is quite another to hand out taxpayer money based on party affiliation. If Republicans don’t want their party to be permanently branded the “party of corruption,” they need to join with us in demanding Jackson’s resignation from President Bush as well.

    Bush makes things up out of thin air [part 4,829]

    Dan Froomkin’s “White House Watch” column has a good rundown of this one. President Bush is apparently ignoring his own National Intelligence Estimate on Iran, in favor of just making stuff up when he feels like it.

    This would be laughable if it weren’t such a deadly game of “chicken” to be playing. Bush recently said that Iran “declared they want to have a nuclear weapon to destroy people.” Only problem, Iran has never said any such thing. When asked about it later, a White House spokesman said he was “shorthanding,” which is apparently Washington-speak for “making things up off the top of his head.”

    This, again, is more evidence that Bush’s reality is just not the reality the rest of us share, and are two separate things altogether. Which needs (yet again) pointing out.

    “As Democrats, we hope and pray every day that America gets through the next election and swears in a Democrat to the Oval Office — without President Bush starting another war in the meantime, based on (to put it politely) ‘false intelligence.’ Two wars at a time is enough, Mr. President. Stop trying to start another one with Iran.”

    See, Bush actually wants low poll numbers

    Bush’s Press Secretary Dana Perino said some amusing things recently as well. First, she compared herself to a duck. To the question “How do you stay so calm?” Perino replied:

    “Well, maybe I might look like it on the outside sometimes. But it’s like a duck. You look really calm above the water, but underneath, you’re churning.”

    Oooo-kay. She also “churned” out this gem this week, speaking on Iraq, and Bush and Cheney’s relationship to the polls:

    “Both the president and the vice president have long believed, and it’s a part of what has made them the leaders that they are, which is not to chase popularity polls but to hold themselves to a standard that requires people not to like them.”

    Um, OK, Dana. You sure you don’t want to go lie down or something? This one’s pathetically easy for Democrats to knock down, should they feel the urge:

    “Bush spokeswoman Dana Perino apparently believes that Bush and Cheney hold themselves to a standard, quote, that requires people not to like them, unquote. That certainly explains why only about three in ten people do in every recent poll I’ve seen! Maybe Bush needs a new Press Secretary. I hear Socks The Cat is available….”

  90. cosmos
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    Songbird,

    jimmymac mostly just trolls, lies, flails his arms, and chortles.

  91. Songbird
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Okay. I’m relatively new to this Blog - so I guess I’m still a blogvirgin. Or something like that.

    Oh well - at least this defloweration didn’t hurt like the DICKENS……………………………………………………………………

  92. cosmos
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Max,

    Thank you for the factual reminder.

    John McCain can’t tell the difference between Sunni and Shi’ite in Iraq… and this man wants to be our president?!?

  93. Kansas
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Thank you very much Max.

    (chortles)

  94. CF2K
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Dear Nazi,

    Actually, those have been our talking points for, oh, ’bout five years now. And they’ll remain that until the U.S. stops throwing away money and lives on an illegal and immoral occupation.

  95. Rage
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Wasn’t it a liberal that got us into Viet Nam and a conservative that got us out?

    Not exactly, Sol. Nixon promised “vietnamization” of the war–similar to “we’ll stand down when the Iraqis stand up.” But he also insisted on “peace with honor” (translation: we’re not leaving until we’ve kicked ass). Then he and Kissinger proceeded to expand the war into Cambodia and Laos.

    Eventually, in Nixon’s second term, we started getting the hell out of there. The last Americans didn’t leave until Gerald Ford was president.

    To say that a liberal that got us into Viet Nam and a conservative got us out is an incredible oversimplication, particularly since it was liberals not conservatives!–who had been fighting to get out all along. Conservatives were saying the same things they’re saying now: withdrawal is surrender, period.

    By 1973, Nixon was occupied with Watergate, and Kissinger simply saw that the game was up.

    P.S. Having been not yet 14 when the last American officials left Vietnam via the fire sscape, I don’t paint myself as any kind of Vietnam expert. But I think a little knowledge of history is a good thing. :)

  96. Ken
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    regular — there is a North MCluer HS, Mo bsktball team playing on ESPN any family connection?

  97. sursum
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    Rage: Eisenhower first placed military advisors into South Viet Nam to bolster a bogus, newly imposed regime after Dulles urged and got the US to reject the internationally monitered referendum in both North and the South Viet Nam to re-unite. Remember the discraced king the US tried to install(Bo Die)and ended up backing even more cporupt men therefter? Kennedy only expanded the advisor corps and of course like all mission creep knew it was a lost, unjust mission and supposedly was in the throes of getting out, right after the elections.
    The Vietnamese (guys like Ho Chi Minh) had heroically fought the Japs, kick them out and weren’t about to be re-colonized by France. The 38th parrallel was an ad hoc line marking administration responsibilities after WW2, and it was Dulles who first chanpioned the domino theory to counter the socialists winning of the referendum in both parts of Viet Nam, that would have brought unification.

  98. Posted March 24, 2008 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Support our Troops — Bring them home NOW!!

    NOBODY in the White House can tell us what WINNING means… And they keep changing the definition!!

    Bring those troops HOME where they belong!!

    IF the boogeyman enemy attacked us HERE, we would be looking for them THERE!! LOL

    And Dickie Boy would say, “So?”

  99. ghotiphaze
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Support our Troops — Bring them home NOW!!

    And pass the hat for decent body armor while they’re there. And for bottled water so they don’t have to shower in the sewage KBR suppies.

  100. Posted March 24, 2008 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    Thats right Fish… Right on spot!!

  101. Posted March 24, 2008 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Now we *Duck*

  102. sursum
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone know how to make the font size bigger? I can’t believe the typos I make!

  103. Posted March 24, 2008 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    This thread had a horrendous beginning today — Hopefully, it will not get worse!!

  104. Posted March 24, 2008 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Sursum,

    Hold down the Ctrl key and scroll up.

  105. ghotiphaze
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Hold down the Ctrl key and scroll up.

    Mine won’t change even going to view, largest. It may be the browser I use for the blogs.

  106. ghotiphaze
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, the browser, Cnt/scroll works in IE

  107. ghotiphaze
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, the browser, Cnt/scroll works in IE

  108. Posted March 24, 2008 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Reading through the comments today, I am absolutely disgusted at the right wing element here. I fear for my country if these people capture the White House in November. After seven plus years of Bush, we are in trouble, yet the right wing seems to delight in our current position.

    The hatred that the right displays towards their fellow Americans is stunning. Some Republicans can be worked with, but they are not represented by the right wing element here.

    The agenda of the far right is staggering………

    More war, however unjustified.

    Discrimination against minorities, gays and others that do not share their far right agenda.

    Support for an endless war, despite the fact that the reasons for going to war have been completely refuted.

    An ongoing pattern of fiscal irresponsibility, marked by ever increasing deficits.

    A complete disregard for the environment and the documented positions of true scientists in favor of selling out to big business.

    An agenda that clearly favors the interests of business over that of working Americans.

    The list goes on and on and on.

    The right wing claims a higher moral ground, Christian based, yet their hatred of their fellow Americans is what drives their agenda.

    Is this the agenda of Jesus Christ or is this just right wing hypocrisy?

    I am disgusted.

  109. Songbird
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    I agree, WSClark:

    Two years ago, I stated solemnly that, if another Republican were to be elected in 2008, I would…………………………………………………..

    Oh, it’s too gosh-darned filthy to repeat.

    Let’s just say it’s probably tantamount to self-immolation……….

  110. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Can also hit (Ctrl ++) to enlarge text in a browser or (Ctrl -) to make is smaller.

    (Ctrl 0) to go back to the page default.

  111. Steven Davis
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Good post at 3:05, Clark. I read recently, and seems to be all too true, that the conservative movement is best understood as a loose association of people [sic] who hate various things. But they love to throw that projection that the left hates things. It would be very amusing, if it weren’t so sad.

  112. parkay
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Attorney David Gibbs III, the son of the founder of the Christian Law Association, was the lead attorney for the parents of Terri Shiavo in the fight to save her life in 2003. He will be speaking about inside details of the terrible story of the court-ordered execution on Sunday morning, March 30 at Summit Woods Church, 2501 SE Shenandoah Drive, Lee’s Summit, MO, phone 816.525.8215.
    See church page
    http://summitwoodschurch.org/files/march2008.pdf
    - - -

    The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Monday in favor of prison inmates using taxpayer-funded transportation and added security for elective abortions outside of prisons.
    The Arizona county in the case must now revise jail procedures and pay the extra expenses for infanticides. A similar Missouri case involving another court-ordered baby killing may be heard this summer.
    Mothers who have lost control of their own lives, necessitating their incarceration, should not be able to demand the court-ordered killing of their children.
    - - -

    “The Bill is not about creating monsters or mocking the sanctity of human life. Indeed, it will reduce the number of human eggs and embryos used in the production of stem cells for research.”
    . . . Professor Colin Blakemore, a former head of the British Medical Research Council, decrying the obvious ignorance and misconceptions of church officials in criticizing the ethics, or lack thereof, in medical research, and in urging letter-writing to MPs
    . . .
    Senior British scientists have offered to meet Roman Catholic bishops and MPs to explain the “need” for legislation to allow experiments on manufactured embryos that are part-human and part-animal [=chimeras, designed as mostly human, with various diseases and defects, for destructive testing].
    - - -

    The Canadian government has ordered MacGregor Ministries, a Christian ministry that teaches doctrine and the differences between Christians and cults, shut down because its reference materials were “critical” of the beliefs of those who are not Christian.
    In Canada, any church or ministry that refuses to acknowledge that all religions are equal is guilty of hate speech, and can thus be punished or closed. Promoting the Gospel of Christ over false religions and feel-good cult preaching is not allowed.
    There is really nothing substantial left of free speech and free exercise of religion in Canada. The homosexual agenda and abortion industries are very well protected and favored by federal government, instead.

  113. Posted March 24, 2008 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    “was the lead attorney for the parents of Terri Shiavo in the fight to save her life in 2003″

    The autopsy showed that she was brain dead, blind and completely non-functional.

    What life were they saving?

  114. Songbird
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    In my opinion - and the opinion of many others - the parents of Terri Shiavo erred by placing none other than Randall Terry in charge of their efforts.

    Randall Terry - the self-proclaimed (former) alpha male of the anti-abortion crusade. The now-disgraced former kingpin of the group who invaded Wichita nearly 17 years ago and basked in his own self-absorption and unbridled arrogance.

    Whether he’s pontificating on national television, comparing the conjugal arena to a patriarchal free-for-all in which the wife has no rights……whether he’s advocating for “a wave of hatred”…..whether he’s just blathering about nothing at all in that whiny, nasally voice of his…..he’s a distasteful character.

    However, like many, I was troubled by Terri’s husband. The issue, for me, was respect - I am not an expert on the medical issues at hand.

    However, the Catholic Church has perpetually taught that “extreme” measures need not be mandated to prolong life, certainly not in the case of irreversible, vegetative states. For Father Frank Pavone to speak so passionately (in a manner of which I did not always approve) about this case probably indicated that there were troubled moral waters afoot.

    And yet…………..

    Father Pavone has spoken words of wisdom, speaking from a (strictly) personal standpoint. I do not have time to delinate them all right now; suffice it to say my snobbery (moral and/or otherwise) prevented me from discerning this wisdom.

    As I’ve said time and time again - human fallibility abounds regarding this issue.

    And the Songbird isn’t blameless.

  115. Posted March 24, 2008 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    Got this from a Pastor friend in NY State >>>

    Subject: Reply to NY Times article by Jeremiah Wright

    March 11, 2007
    Jodi Kantor The New York Times
    9 West 43rd Street
    New York, New York 10036-3959

    Dear Jodi:

    Thank you for engaging in one of the biggest misrepresentations of the truth I have ever seen in sixty-five years.

    You sat and shared with me for two hours. You told me you were doing a “Spiritual Biography” of Senator Barack Obama. For two hours, I
    shared with you how I thought he was the most principled individual in public service that I have ever met.

    For two hours, I talked with you about how idealistic he was. For two hours I shared with you what a genuine human being he was. I told you
    how incredible he was as a man who was an African American in public service, and as a man who refused to announce his candidacy for President until Carol Moseley Braun indicated one way or the other whether or not she was going to run. I told you what a dreamer he was. I told you how idealistic he was.

    We talked about how refreshing it would be for someone who knew about Islam to be in the Oval Office. Your own question to me was, Didn’t I think it would be incredible to have somebody in the Oval Office who not only knew about Muslims, but had living and breathing Muslims in his own family?

    I told you how important it would be to have a man who not only knew the difference between Shiites and Sunnis prior to 9/11/01 in the Oval
    Office, but also how important it would be to have a man who knew what Sufism was; a man who understood that there were different branches of Judaism; a man who knew the difference between Hasidic Jews, Orthodox Jews, Conservative Jews and Reformed Jews; and a man who was a devout Christian, but who did not prejudge other s because they believed something other than what he believed.

    I talked about how rare it was to meet a man whose Christianity was not just “in word only.”

    I talked about Barack being a person who lived his faith and did not argue his faith. I talked about Barack as a person who did not draw
    doctrinal lines in the sand nor consign other people to hell if they did not believe what he believed.

    Out of a two-hour conversation with you about Barack’s spiritual journey and my protesting to you that I had not shaped him nor formed
    him, that I had not mentored him or made him the man he was, even though I would love to take that credit, you did not print any of that. When I told you, using one of your own Jewish stories from the Hebrew Bible as to how God asked Moses, “What is that in your hand?,” that Barack was like that when I met him. Barack had it “in his hand.” Barack had in his grasp a uniqueness in terms of his spiritual development t hat one is hard put to find in the 21st century, and you did not print that.

    As I was just starting to say a moment ago, Jodi, out of two hours of conversation I spent approximately five to seven minutes on…
    …. Barack’s taking advice from one of his trusted campaign people and deeming it unwise to make me the media spotlight on the day of his
    announcing his candidacy for the Presidency and what do you print?

    You and your editor proceeded to present to the general public a snippet, a printed “sound byte” and a titillating and tantalizing article
    about his disinviting me to the Invocation on the day of his announcing his candidacy.

    I have never been exposed to that kind of duplicitous behavior before, and I want to write you publicly to let you know that I do not approve of
    it and will not be party to any further smearing of the name, the reputation, the integrity or the character of perhaps this nation’s first (and maybe e ven only) honest candidate offering himself for public service as the person to occupy the Oval Office.

    Your editor is a sensationalist. For you to even mention that makes me doubt your credibility, and I am looking forward to see how you are
    going to butcher what else I had to say concerning Senator Obama’s “Spiritual Biography.”

    Our Conference Minister, the Reverend Jane Fisler Hoffman, a white woman who belongs to a Black church that Hannity of “Hannity and Colmes” is trying to trash, set the record straight for you in terms of who I am and in terms of who we are as the church to which Barack has belonged for over twenty years.

    The president of our denomination, the Reverend John Thomas, has offered to try to help you clarify in your confused head what Trinity
    Church is even though you spent the entire weekend with us setting me up to interview me for what turned out to be a smear of the Senator; and yet The New York Times continues to r oll on making the truth what it wants to be the truth.

    I do not remember reading in your article that Barack had apologized for listening to that bad information and bad advice. Did I miss it? Or
    did your editor cut it out? Either way, you do not have to worry about hearing anything else from me for you to edit or “spin” because you are more inter ested in journalism than in truth.

    Forgive me for having a momentary lapse. I forgot that The New York Times was leading the bandwagon in trumpeting why it is we should have gone into an illegal war. The New York Times became George Bush and the Republican Party’s national “blog.” The New York Times played a role in the outing of Valerie Plame. I do not know why I thought The New York Times had actually repented and was going to exhibit a different kind of behavior. Maybe it was my faith in the Jewish Holy Day of Roshashana. Maybe it was my being caught up in the euphoria of the Season of Lent; but whatever it is or was, I was sadly mistaken. There is no repentance on the part of The New York Times.
    There is no integrity when it comes to The Times. You should do well with that paper, Jodi. You looked me straight in my face and told me a lie!

    Sincerely and respectfully yours,
    Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. ,
    Senior Pastor
    Trinity United Church of Christ

  116. Posted March 24, 2008 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    Hooray for the Blog Editors!! They deleted the vile, racist post that opened this thread early this morning!! WTG Editors!!

  117. J R
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Some big shot con lawyer is endorsing Obama.

    He calls him “Reaganlike”.

    What have I been saying all along?

  118. Posted March 24, 2008 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    JR — perhaps he means as in “great communicator”

  119. J R
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Conservative lawyer and legal scholar Douglas Kmiec endorsed Barack Obama yesterday.

    According to his bio, Mr. Kmiec served as head of the Office of Legal Counsel (U.S. Assistant Attorney General) for Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, a position previously held by U.S. Chief Justice William Rehnquist and Justice Antonin Scalia in the Nixon and Ford administrations. He was also Co-Chair of the Romney Campaign Committee for the Courts and the Constitution.

    Starting to get the picture?

    Obama is NO Democrat.

  120. Posted March 24, 2008 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    If I ws Obama, I would turn down a “conservative” endorsement from someone with those credentials!!

  121. Posted March 24, 2008 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    Swiped from Bartcop………………

    Giuliani’s priest has been accused of molesting children and covering up more molestations.
    Romney was part of a church that actively discriminated against black Americans.
    Falwell said we had 9/11 coming because we tolerated gays, feminists and liberals.
    McCain’s man, Reverend John Hagee called the Catholic Church the “Great Whore.”
    Reverend Rod Parsley believes America was founded to destroy Islam. Since this is
    such an outlandish claim, I have to add for the record, that he is not kidding.
    John McCain says Reverend Rod Parsley is his “spiritual guide.”

    And we need to talked about Reverend Wright?

    Bullshit.

  122. Posted March 24, 2008 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    I agree CLARK — Thanks for that post!!

  123. Regular
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Another Democratic Falling Star…

    Perjury, Obstruction Charges Brought Against Detroit Mayor, Aide

    DETROIT — Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick was charged with perjury and other offenses Monday — and got a stern lecture about the importance of telling the truth — after a trove of raunchy text messages contradicted his sworn denials of an affair with his chief aide.

    The 37-year-old “Hip-Hop Mayor” who brought youth and vitality to the job in this struggling city of 900,000 could get up to 15 years in prison for perjury alone and would be automatically expelled from office if convicted.

    more at the URL below:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,340939,00.html

  124. Posted March 24, 2008 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    Hardly a “fallen star” (notice the correct terminology.)

    Brown barely won reelection in the last election and is generally despised in Detroit.

    No loss here. At least he wasn’t trying to get his sex in a public restroom.

  125. NN
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Parkay: Freedoms gone in Canada? Your’s nuts! Hell we get all your goofy TV evangelists over cable, and it’s a hoot. We do have very strong hate laws though that any good (of bad) lawyer can cite when needed or demeane if needed. I do not feel at all closed down in my beliefs or the ability of others to express theirs. As long as you do not advocate hate or harm to me, you got no problem in what you say in church.

  126. NN
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Parkay: One more thing. That dingbat who shows up a military funerals claiming God hates faggots, might have a problem though.

  127. fleettwood
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    “No loss here. At least he wasn’t trying to get his sex in a public restroom.”

    I’m not sure if making fun of the homos is going to get us anywhere.

  128. fleettwood
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    “Obama is NO Democrat.”

    You are correct, sir. He is a Socialist.

  129. Posted March 24, 2008 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    “I’m not sure if making fun of the homos is going to get us anywhere.”

    No, I am making fun of anti-gay Republicans that hide behind their marriages in order to get elected, all the while soliciting homosexual sex in public restrooms.

  130. Rage
    Posted March 24, 2008 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Interesting. Doug Kmiec’s endorsement of Obama was not as a conservative, but as a Catholic.
    **********
    Catholics shed their Republican wardrobe in the 2006 midterm election, favoring Democrats 55 percent to 45 percent—a reversal of their 52 percent to 47 percent support for Bush over Kerry in 2004. Because Democratic and Catholic dogmas collide over the polarizing issue of abortion, Catholics do have to navigate some difficult ethical waters to contemplate voting blue. McCain and Huckabee—unlike either of the Democrats—join in the Catholic prayer for the unborn, but Republican promises have often left those prayers unanswered. While no papal instruction will ever condone the “right to choose,” the church does ask for a consistent and realistic defense of life that actually takes steps to reduce the incidence of the practice, not just condemns it. Catholics will note that McCain and Huckabee’s pro-life postures collapse when it comes to the death penalty. Even if the Supreme Court decides later this spring that lethal injection is not “cruel and unusual” under our Constitution, capital sentencing is often erratic and erroneous in light of the modern availability and reliability of DNA evidence. It is Catholic instruction that there are better ways to deter violent crime.

    Beyond life issues, an audaciously hope-filled Democrat like Obama is a Catholic natural. Anyone seeking “liberty and justice for all” really can’t be satisfied with racially segregated public schools that don’t teach. And there’s something deeply hypocritical about being a nation of immigrants that won’t welcome any more of them. And that creation that God saw as good in Genesis? Well, even without seeing Al Gore melt those glaciers over and over again, Catholics chose Al to better steward a world beset with unnatural disasters. Climate change is driven by mindless consumption that devotes more ingenuity to to securing golden parachutes than energy independence.