Barack Obama didn’t take the safe route and simply denounce some inflammatory statements made by his pastor. In a bold, moving and, frankly, grown-up speech today in Philadelphia, Obama went much further in discussing the racial divides in our country, their causes and the hope for continuing to make our nation a more perfect union. He discussed how issues and people, including his pastor, are more complicated than caricatures being pushed by those on the right and left, and how ignoring wounds won’t make them heal. He argued that we have a choice: We can continue to accept “a politics that breeds division and conflict and cynicism,†or we can come together and realize that we share many of the same challenges and aspirations.
“In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world’s great religions demand — that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us,†Obama said. “Let us be our brother’s keeper, Scripture tells us. Let us be our sister’s keeper. Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well.â€
429 Comments
To little to late in my opinion. Shows a lack of discernment sorely needed in a prez. I like Obama personally and feel he has energized many young voters. A good thing. I am greatly concerned about his and his wifes attitudes which mirror those of Wright in many respects. Michelle’s comment that for the first time in her life she can be proud of her country is deeply disturbing. MOHO
Actions speak louder than words. This is especially true for politicians who often say one thing during a campaign and another in office.
He and his family sat in those pews for 20 years listening to racist anti-american garbage. The ‘pastor’ was a mentor and close associate. Anyone else would have packed up and found another church. One not lead by a racist.
Obama is not presidential timber.
“Grown-up?” What does that mean? Is that the equivalent of refering to him as (gasp) “articulate?”
I’m stunned.
“ksgrm” and “ProudMan” are still anti-Obama.
You could knock me over with a truck.
Not surprised to see this comments come from Kansas a typically racist redneck state. Congrats on your bigotry and hillbillyness
MH I was never anti Obama. Ck my posts. I have said in the past that he seems almost too naive for the prez but that has been my only objection. Look before leaping. It might save you a sore neck.
Andy why not say what you really think. Your post was just drivel with nothing of merit.
AGAIN he made with the praise for Republicans and conservatives!
Obama has to be the most inept politician in history.
Proudman - Your generalities show your ignorance. He did not sit in the pews listening to racist rhetoric for 20 years.
JR - I’d be careful calling him an inept politician, considering he is currently in the lead against Clinton.
I thought the speech was quite good, and had many truths to it. However, one he left out was the effect on the black community of black hate mongers and race prostitutes like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and yes, The Reverend Wright. Their constant point to the whitey as the source of their problems only leads to to despair, and lack of introspection on the part of black America. To fix the cause of your problem outside your influence, removes any hope of changing your situation. Lack of hope breeds despair, despair breeds hate, hate breeds violence. THis is the true crime that the likes of Jackson, Sharpton, and apparently Wright has committed. Although from what I can tell, Wright has committed this to a far less degree, and practices what he preaches about taking care of his fellow man.
Still, I think it would have been a great part to acknowledge this fact in such a “momentous” speech about race.
Andy how can you be grown up after setting for 20 years and listening to the hate filled sermons of your minister and you only ’see the light’ after the public hears this man’s sermons and you just happen to be running for POTUS.
He had no choice. He took the only chance he had and hope it would grow legs. Only in Brownlee’s lib world.
Strange, J R.
If he’s so inept, why is he kicking the Queen of Mean’s ass?
Obama is showing exactly how to win this thing: take the right-wing smear and show how it’s destroying the political process–which is exactly what it’s doing.
Make the hate-mongers the problem (which they are) and overcome them by standing above them.
Seen a poll lately Capn?
Obama is becoming a liability to the Democratic party. I wonder how much else there is about him to discover?
I for one will be looking for it. This is too important a time for Obama to skate in on a media love affair. I don’t trust him.
TDT
Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:00 pm | Permalink
Proudman - Your generalities show your ignorance. He did not sit in the pews listening to racist rhetoric for 20 years.
By his own admission he has belonged to this church for 20 years. Where do you think he was sitting during these years?
I am personally proud an American of his intelligence is willing to serve our country. He will have a positive influence whether he is or isn’t elected president this fall.
“Do unto others as we would have them do unto us.” We all need to reflect and make sure we individually are accepting our responsibilities as citizens of a nation that includes everyone and should be fair to everyone.
I think we will see greatness from this man.
It will be intereting to see how this speech on race in America benefits him in the polls.
I really didn’t see much in it other than more of the same old liberal claptrap.
I think the mulatto mesiah may have peaked.
When did Wright ever say anything racist? Are the people claiming Wright is a racist the same people who claimed Obama is a Muslim?
The reason that black denunciations of white society resonate so strongly and are met with such a fierce backlash is because we know in our hearts, the blacks are right.
The systematic discrimination we’ve shown to the African-American over the centuries cannot be denied. The petty tokenism (like affirmative-action) that we propose as a way of recompense is far too little, too late.
White America refuses to face up to what it’s done because it is just too painful and difficult.
Far easier just to blame the victims for their lack of “individual responsibility.”
The democrats are running left and lefter in a country that elects center right presidents. To win all McCain has to do is point out that Obama is further to the left than any Senator or any other national politician in history.
The fact that he is black holds no relevence.
If Hank is against it, you know it’s good.
That’s proof positive.
McCain is Bush’s third term.
Sorry, Hank.
There just aren’t that many stupid people left. They’ve wised up . . .
I see throughout the blogosphere that the Clinton and Republican supporters watched the speech with the mute button on. And it is clear that they have made the choice to further the racial divide in America.
I used to get upset, now I just smile and feel sorry for such ignorance and arrogance. I pray for the Americans in this country who care more about race than they do their children’s future in this country. Most of the anti-Obama comments posted here come from those who have lazy, uneducated thoughts! In a way, I’m glad Rev. Wright’s offensive remarks have been broadcasted throughout America. It has exposed the ignorance and arrogance of those who think they are the deciders of this country.
Good post, Tre’.
Thanks for that.
Oh come now Capn!
You and Hank should be holding hands according to Obama!
Not me. No thanks.
Well racism is no more attractive when it is in reverse.
And not all that more justified.
Cap you are wrong for so many reasons that I can’t list them all here. The democratic party led by Bill Clinton was the first racist attack on Obama. Don’t ignore the truth in your rush to blame repubs.
Linda I too expect great things from this man just not in this election cycle. He is collecting to much baggage to carry to the Whitehouse.
“Do unto others as we would have them do unto us” is liberal claptrap to bible-beating Hank Price.
Ditto for the Sermon on the Mount, apparently.
Now, the part about “an eye for an eye!” hell, yeah, right Hank?
At least he didn’t go along with Romney’s idea that it doesn’t matter what version of Christian you are AS LONG AS YOU ARE CHRISTIAN! Seems he realizes that many of us became ‘unchurched’ for a reason.
Cap which part of the sermon on the mount were you referring to?
Ben which party is Romney the front runner for prez?
J R–
Please don’t tell me that you’ve bought into the radical-right LIE of “reverse racism.”
When did a black banker ever deny you a loan because you were white? When did a black neighborhood say that you can’t live there because you are white? Or rent an apartment because you are white? When did a taxi NOT PICK YOU up because you are white? When did black customers ever complain that they wanted a waiter who wasn’t white?
You can’t have systematic racism unless you are in a position of power to impose that racism.
Racism is not an “idea” of superiority–it’s an act of discrimination that harms others based on race.
Come on, America, grow up. After reading blogs on multiple websites, I cannot believe that people don’t get it. Do you really believe that we should “throw away” every friend, relative, and offspring who makes a statement with which we disagree? Would you disown every child or relative who holds a belief different from your own? Then, why do you think it important for Obama to do that?
It is better that we address these differences (like he just did) in simple, very clear language, explaining why we denounce or repudiate the message so we can help each other and work together as a people. Throwing out the baby with the bath water is not the answer. I thought Obama’s speech was brave, insightful, intelligent, and proved to me that he is the best person we could hope to have as our president. We would be so fortunate.
Obama 08
All of a sudden it is ok to quote scripture and talk about Jesus… when you are a Democrat.
If a Republican was out there quoting scripture and talking about Jesus, the media, Liberals, and Democrats would be crying about what a religious nut case he was!
The Eagle Editors wouldn’t be calling a Republican “grown up, bold, or moving” they would be pointing out the question of seperation of church and state.
Capn,
You have confused racism with oppression and discrimination. Try looking them up. A racist is a racist is a racist. There are no boundaries of position, power, race, creed, or color. A racist is a racist.
Those that are criticizing Obama over the church he attends would NOT vote for Barack anyway, under any circumstance. This is just another “let’s build him up and see if we can knock him down” scenario.
I am sure that if David Duke were running for President, many on the right here would vote for him over Obama, regardless.
There is nothing here - this story has no more legs than the “Obama is a secret Muslim” nonsense.
Everyone who thinks the remarks of Rev Wright are any different than any other preacher, minister, priest or revernd of today is fooling themselves.
Google any well known famous religious person…their quotes are racist, bigotry, hateful, anti American and sometime riot inducing. Try Pat Roberston, Jerry Falwell, or John Hagee…all guest at the White House over the years, and advisors. Turn on your TV, your radio…listen. There is good in everyone…and racism in all of us. That is all Obama was saying. Look in your mirror, look at your spiritual leader…do you not see it…do you not hear it?
CapnAmerica,
So what about a student who scores higher on tests and is more qualified on an acceptance into a school and is then turned down for a less qualified person simply because that person is black?
Oh thats right, Racism (Affirmative Action) is ok then.
Well I’ve done my share of defending Obama.
But no more. I think he has gotten WAY to big a pass from the media to this point. I hate to think what else will be found now .
Those who are refusing to see the freshness of Obama’s speech and the historic nature of it are are those who hate him regardless of what he does or say. Barack’s speech was brilliant, sound, analytical and historical profound for its breadth and delivery. Its the long awaited medicine needed in this country to help address the issue of racism in this country. God bless Barack and God bless the world
Good morning Capn.!
#
CapnAmerica
Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:19 pm | Permalink
McCain is Bush’s third term.
Sorry, Hank.
There just aren’t that many stupid people left. They’ve wised up . . .
What mkes you think that running a Senator that is further to the left of Lurch, the defeated opponent of ’second-term-Bush’ is the answer?
Amazing! The radical left has no idea how the democrats lost the Whitehouse in 2004 and managed to win the Congress in 2006!
(Hint: Running a socialist is not the answer!)
@ Ksgrm:
Do you honestly believe that
1. Rev. Wright, for some 20+ years would have been preaching “hate filled surmons”?
… in fact scratch that …
One question … have you “listened” to what the Rev. said? … not heard, “listened”?
Please identify via a transpict of this *single* clip of the entire man’s career, what was said is his speech that was either racest or untrue.
I have listened very carefully to Mr. Obama’s speech and I, for one, am sad that BOTH Barrack’s examination and the blog commentators thus far have missed the central core of current racial divide:
Poverty.
Poverty breeds resentment, despiration and inequities at every level of our culture. It affects black americans in northern cities and white americans in southern towns. It cripples education, the courts and our jails.
I am also sad to see so many comments posted that look for the ‘other’ - be it arab, black, white or gay - to blame.
Sen. Obama should be commended for speaking so candidly on a very risky and politically incorrect subject. Would any of US in his position be so brave?
After the dumbing down of America from listening to bushspeak, can the populace even understand adult level speeches?
Phillip Brownlee,
As I am listening to Obama’s speech, I, too, am having a difficult time understanding your description “grown up”. I know you guys don’t read these threads much, but I hope somehow that you are moved to explain that term.
I would have used “courageous”, “honest” and frankly “skillful” in terms of turning around a criticism of him into statements about this candidate’s undeniable strengths.
In case y’all missed it, this is what BO had to say about the ‘good’ rev.
“I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Rev. Wright that have caused such controversy. “
“But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren’t simply controversial. They weren’t simply a religious leader’s effort to speak out against perceived injustice.
“Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country “
“As such, Rev. Wright’s comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems”
Especially since the Republicans liked to say “I voted for bush ’cause he’s just like ordinary folk’.
Phantom, Some folk are more discerning than others.
This was one of the most profound speeches i have ever heard. Yeah it would have been politically correct for Obama to ditch his reverend, but it is apparent to me that he’s not going to ditch someone so important to him for his own gain.
That speaks VOLUMES to the ethics of Obama, he is one heck of a good man. I am thoroughly impressed.
And he isn’t doing what republicans would do, defend, deflect and deny. He says I don’t agree, and I still love him, I see a bigger picture.
It just figures there would be people who would take this speech and try to turn it nasty. sadly, they’re the very reasons why I cannot support Obama in the election because THESE are the kind of people who need to be defeated, not worked with.
Phantom,
Your PC back up?
BS Bruce!
Poverty is not the cause of any social problems! Poverty in the U.S. is a temporary condition if you are not a ‘victim’ of a poverty culture.
A culture of poverty that race baiters like the good Rev. Wright use to maintain their positions of power and prominance in the black community.
No Bruce, Poverty isn’t the problem of our society, it’s a symptom of liberalism.
Ksgrm
Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:08 pm | Permalink
TDT
Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:00 pm | Permalink
Proudman - Your generalities show your ignorance. He did not sit in the pews listening to racist rhetoric for 20 years.
By his own admission he has belonged to this church for 20 years. Where do you think he was sitting during these years?
Ksgrm - He wasn’t listening to racist rhetoric for 20 years, he was listening to his pastors sermons about the bible and brotherly love. They have found one sermon in 20 years that is offensive when viewed out of context, and they are generalizing him because of that ONE sermon in TWENTY YEARS as a racist.
For all of you Republicans who think that Rev. Wright said something horrible and Michelle Obama was wrong for what she said…
I really want you to try to explain these words:
Why should God bless America?
She’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back
On everything that made her what she is
Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sin and heal our land
The courts ruled prayer out of our schools
In June of ‘62
Told the children “you are your own God now
So you can make the rules”
O say can you see what that choice
Has cost us to this day
America, one nation under God, has gone astray
Why should God bless America?
Shes’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back on everything
That made her what she is
Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sins and heal our land
In ‘73 the Courts said we
Could take the unborn lives
The choice is yours don’t worry now
It’s not a wrong, it’s your right
But just because they made it law
Does not change God’s command
The most that we can hope for is
God’s mercy on our land
Why should God bless America?
She’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back on everything
That made her what she is
Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sins and heal our land
(Reading from 2nd Chronicles 7:14) If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and forgive their sin and heal their land
God have mercy on America forgive her sins and heal our land
This was sung before one of the GOP Presidential debates.
“Poverty isn’t the problem of our society, it’s a symptom of liberalism.”
Too bad we all can’t marry well.
Steven,
On the question about calling Obama’s speech “grown up,” I have a thought. When I listen to bush speak I feel like I’ve been lectured. He frequently states something and then repeats it as if his audience might be too stupid to understand and he needs to clarify. How often do you hear him say, “in other words…?” Even his tone is condescending. Because to me bush seems like a terribly arrogant man I never think he might be aware of his inadequacies as a speaker. I come away with the feeling he thinks of himself as greatly superior.
When Barack spoke today he treated us, his audience, with respect. It was as one adult would speak with another.
Of course, my thoughts and Mr. Brownlee’s thoughts may be very different and I’m not speaking for anyone but me.
Maybe Mr. Brownlee had a second to write an intro to a topic he thought we would want to discuss and he did a good job in a hurry but could have done a better one with more time.
A couple of theories.
All in all, pretty well done. He made only two references that could be said to pander to conservatives (though he might well have been pandering to Bill Cosby, or Jesse Jackson, who have said similar things in much harsher terms). Even then, there were qualifying nuances—at least if one was interested in seeing them.
Having seen the welfare system up close, I happen to agree that it helps perpetuate poverty, not by giving bums a free ride (thought that does happen), but rather by a maze of rules, requirements, and mandatory actions, designed supposedly to help these people, but in reality keep them busy with remaining within the system itself.
Of couse if he wins the nomination the Wright issue will be used non-stop. No one wants to elect a scary black man . The question is: how will swing voters respond?
Hank, you’re full of shit. Poverty is the main cause of all the bad things that happen.
Wars, suicides, Communism, Socialism, Marxism, Fascism, starvation, depression, all of them are impacted by poverty.
You see it in every single statistic, crime rates go up when poverty rates increase. And it gets worse when the haves turn around and blame it on those who have not. Eventually the have nots get tired of being told how they haven’t done enough to get ahead. And they decide to ‘do’ something about it by getting rid of the ‘haves’.
“Steven Davis” –
Before this thread started, I commented on the Open Thread how refreshing to hear a major political figure talking to the American people like we are grown-ups; with respect, without jingoistic slogans (”Bring ‘em on!” Remember?) In complete sentences and with insight and clarity of thought.
After two terms of smirking and posturing by George WMD Bush, Obama shows maturity, judgement, wisdom, and substance.
Political_mama
Posted March 18, 2008 at 1:36 pm | Permalink
Hank, you’re full of shit. Poverty is the main cause of all the bad things that happen.
——–
Political Mama–
You are just wrong. I have known far too many poor people that would not think of taking what is not theirs. You diss them by lumping them in with the useless pos that feel otherwise. Criminal activity for the most part is not caused by being financially poor, but instead by beig morally bancrupt.
Political Mom,
You obviously heard the same speech I did. We may have just witnessed Obama’s turning the corner into the home stretch of this nomination.
Thanks, Linda.
Well of course my electoral preference is known.
That said? His pretty words didn’t impress me anymore than they ever do. Just more of the same.
Okay, MonkeyHawk. But, I think that your comment lends credence to Bill Maher’s comment that Bush has engendered “f**k-up fatigue”. Shouldn’t we assume that our presidents are going to sound “grown up”? And this is not an especially worthy attribute?
It was impressive. I was worried, and thought, uh-oh, here comes his downfall. And then he stood up, wrote an incredible and thoughtful speech, and stood before the nation and spoke to us about that which most politicians won’t touch with a ten foot pole. Good for him!!It was the best thing he could have done in this situation.
Sure LJ, and all those ‘illegal aliens’ that everyone hates so much, they’re just breaking the law because they feel like it right?
I mean you and I, we’d travel across wide expanses of deserts and risk jail to live in Mexico, right?
Hank,
Thanks for sharing your valuable insights about this Democratic candidate.
Care to share your wise thoughts on your party’s candidate.
Anyone else notice how the right wing folk are strangely silent on their candidate? Wonder what that means?…
Well Steven I give up could it something to do with the topic of the blog? “Obama speech bold, moving, grown-up”
Steven,
When the thread is about McCain, then we will talk about McCain.
There is nothing “strange” about our talking about the subject matter which is posted by the Ediotrs.
Sol, not yet but they’re sending out disks, only cost 15 dol. so not too bad.
CapnAmerica
Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:17 pm |
“The systematic discrimination we’ve shown to the African-American over the centuries cannot be denied. The petty tokenism (like affirmative-action) that we propose as a way of recompense is far too little, too late.
Far easier just to blame the victims for their lack of “individual responsibility.”
What a crock of B.S., which is typical considering the source.
I have not, and nobody I know, has systematically discriminated against anyone, black or any other color. I don’t have either the time or position to have an effect on anyone else anyway.
I work to provide for my family, improve our lot in life, provide for the future, and get along the best I can. And yes, it most certainly is the level of individual responsibility that always determines ones success or lack thereof in the vast majority of cases.
Capn, you are their worst enemy, by attempting to keep them down on the ‘entitlement plantation’ with your propagation of the lie that it’s always someone else’s fault besides the individual.
Wise up.
They’re sending xpsp2, is that the same as xp?
“Having seen the welfare system up close, I happen to agree that it helps perpetuate poverty, not by giving bums a free ride (thought that does happen), but rather by a maze of rules, requirements, and mandatory actions, designed supposedly to help these people, but in reality keep them busy with remaining within the system itself.”
Excellent point, Rage. Welfare, I think, from a similar close view, always takes more from people than it ever gives them. Conservatives don’t ever seem to get that. If they did, they might be able to make some intelligent comments on the subject.
They’re sending xpsp2, is that the same as xp?
Yep.
Hey, I just in the neighborbood, Sol.
Sorry, Nathan, I guess I have just missed you guys’ irrational exuberance over your candidate. :)
Hud,
ditto above to you, as well.
Hank Price posted March 18, 2008 at 1:30 pm
“Poverty isn’t the problem of our society, it’s a symptom of liberalism.”
What percentage of your wealth does your wife provide? And since you served in the Navy, are you getting any taxpayer-funded benefits?
Phantom,
XPSP2 is XP with service pack 2 installed. Took care of most of the bugs. So it is actually better than XP. Be on the lookout for SP3. M$ has found some memory caveats that will drastically increase performance.
Betting Vista sales take a nose dive.
Lots of good stuff posted above. LH, Bruce, Siam thanks for your fresh perspectives.
J R, Steven, LindainKs, MH, Phant, Rage, TDT and P-Mom are interesting as always.
As for Nathan’s question:
“So what about a student who scores higher on tests and is more qualified on an acceptance into a school and is then turned down for a less qualified person simply because that person is black?”
Race is a factor as well as test scores for college admission. So is age, past experience, the admission essay, volunteer work, economic status, extra-curricular activities and geographic location.
George Bush got accepted to Andover Prep School partly because he was from Texas and the admission office seeks diversity.
That’s hardly the same thing as getting routinely shaken down by cops for DWB, “driving while black.”
Personally, I am fed up with people seemingly trying to tell me it’s my fault, through discrimination, that someone else hasn’t achieved what others have. I don’t have anything to do with it or them and their lot in life. It’s hard enough for me to keep up myself.
What would you suggest Capn, something like this;
“In response to a number of complaints that there is discrimination taking place with not enough Black and Hispanic people appearing on TV, the Network has decided that in the future ‘America’s Most Wanted’ will be shown ‘TWICE’ weekly.”
It’s hard to achieve much sitting in jail you know.
Political_mama
Posted March 18, 2008 at 1:49 pm | Permalink
Sure LJ, and all those ‘illegal aliens’ that everyone hates so much, they’re just breaking the law because they feel like it right?
I mean you and I, we’d travel across wide expanses of deserts and risk jail to live in Mexico, right?
If you want to talk about illegal aliens, I’d be happy to oblige. Your post was about how poverty causes crime. Different subject. However, I am glad to note that you think being an illegal alien is a crime. Thanks!
“Steven Davis” asks –
“Shouldn’t we assume that our presidents are going to sound ‘grown up?’”
Well, yeah. Despite the lack thereof for the past two terms.
To empirically examine Nathan’s claim that conservative posters talk about McCain on “McCain threads”, check out the number of “CONLove” posts for McCain on this thread. I think I found zero.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/03/advising-mccain-lobbying-for-eads/#comments
Boxlock writes–
“I have not, and nobody I know, has systematically discriminated against anyone, black or any other color. I don’t have either the time or position to have an effect on anyone else anyway.”
Nevertheless, you have benefitted by not being discriminated against.
As for “not knowing” anyone who has systematically discriminated against anyone, that is false. You know landlords, don’t you? They discriminate against people of color all the time. I’ve seen it happen.
A very high percent of predatory loans were written to people of color, so much so that NCAA is now filing suit. Maybe the bankers that you know weren’t directly involved, but many bankers were.
And how about those white RepubliCON Kansas legislators who allow “loans” of 100 percent interest APR by legalizing “pay day lenders,” knowing that this usuary will hurt the poor and minorities?
Nah, nothing to see here.
While Barack Obama was speaking in Pennsylvania this morning, the Republic Party candidate John WMD McCain forget who the enemy is in Iraq.
Today he told reporters that Iran was training al Qaeda fighters and sending them into Iraq. This is hilarious because of course Iran is Shiite and al Qaeda is Sunni, so they hate each other.
Pressed to elaborate, McCain said it was “common knowledge and has been reported in the media that al-Qaeda is going back into Iran and receiving training and are coming back into Iraq from Iran, that’s well known. And it’s unfortunate.”
Vinegar Joe Lieberman quickly intervened, suggesting that Iran is training Shiite extremists and sending them into Iraq.
So there you have it, old foreign policy wonk and most-credible-war-on-terror-guy McCain can’t remember which religious sect aligns with which ancient hatred, because he is senile.
Hey Steven,
Be glad to share my wisdom about McCain! He wasn’t my choice, but, He’s my man now!
The democrats give me absolutly no choice. McCain has supported and co-authored legislation that absolutely makes my blood boil! Hell, Bush (again, not my choice) signed a lot of it into law!
McCain has always been a physcal conservative. He’s never voted for a tax increase. He voted against the Bush tax cuts because he wanted spending cuts too.
He is absolutely correct and resolute on the war on terror. Hillary or Obama would be a disaster if elected.
Now, normally I don’t see the need nor have the desire to defend McCain on a thread that the dems are fighting amonst themselves on, but thanks for asking!
What would you suggest Capn?
Why, thank you for asking, Boxlock.
What I would suggest is
1. voting for legislators who will take a harder stand against discrimination against poor and minorities. Racism should carry a jail term the same as pushing drugs and terrorism, for it IS a kind of terrorism.
2. getting gov’t to help people who need help instead of helping people who are already rich.
3. reversing the policies that gutted the only counter-weight to the rich-getting-richer in this country, labor unions.
4. spending as much on education as we do on our military. Right now, we spend eight times more on the military.
5. repeal NAFTA and all the other so-called “free trade” treaties that are bleeding good jobs out of the US and require “fair trade” agreements, so that our workers aren’t competing against de facto slave labor in Occupied Guam.
6. pass a “living wage” law so that a full-time working Mom for instance can make enough to live on.
That would be a hellova good start.
#
cosmos
Posted March 18, 2008 at 2:04 pm | Permalink
Hank Price posted March 18, 2008 at 1:30 pm
“Poverty isn’t the problem of our society, it’s a symptom of liberalism.”
What percentage of your wealth does your wife provide? And since you served in the Navy, are you getting any taxpayer-funded benefits?
Interesting little diversion, cosmos! What do you consider wealthy? Why do you think I am?
I’m retired Navy. As such I recieve all the benefits that I have earned!
Wright’s tirade was nothing more than venting pent-up anger. Anger accumulated over many years of the reality of being treated because you’re black in America. And where does that fault belong?
Certainly not with Obama.
“I’m retired Navy. As such I recieve all the benefits that I have earned!”
Which is another way of saying “welfare paid by tax-payers, most of whom make a lot less than my family does.”
But don’t feel like you owe anything back, Hank, after all, you “earned” it . . .
Wow, MAX!
When Rev. Wright runs for President, I won’t vote for him!
I’m retired Navy. As such I recieve all the benefits that I have earned!”
Which is another way of saying “welfare paid by tax-payers, most of whom make a lot less than my family does.”
But don’t feel like you owe anything back, Hank, after all, you “earned” it . . .
——-
Matter of fact, he did earn it. And while I have no idea how much Hank makes, most US taxpayers do okay. Notice I did not say wagearners, I said taxpayers.
CapnAmerica,
My father WORKED for 20 years in the Navy to EARN his retirement.
That is not Welfare.
We probably ought to do lunch, Capn. if you think that Navy retirement benefits are the same as welfare! They aren’t quite as good as most of the KPERs retiree benefits or the average fireman or policeman, but I’m not complaining.
“They aren’t quite as good as most of the KPERs retiree benefits or the average fireman or policeman, but I’m not complaining.”
I will second that.
CapnAmerica tried to pass himself off the other day as supporting the troops, but his anti-military crap is coming through once more today.
Why don’t I believe anything Obamanation says?
Planned Parenthood is doing unto nearly half of his tiny dark-skinned brothers and sisters the mangling, dismembering, poisoning, and beheading which pleases him no end, especially when he gets the blood-stained “contributions” from the abortion mills raking in the huge profits.
Obamanation is the Judas goat of the black race.
Actually Boy, it was 21 years.
Dear Hank Price,
It wasn’t a “diversion”.
You said that poverty is a “symptom of liberalism”.
But your money seems to come from tax-payers, and your wife.
Cosmos,
What part of working for 20 years to EARN a retirement don’t you understand?
Dear cosmos,
“But your money seems to come from tax-payers, and your wife.”
Care to explain your mischaracterization of my financial status?
I explained in detail last month of how I got to where I am financialy. It was do to very hard work on my wife’s part and on my part. We still work at the clinic about 50 hours a week and take work home.
What do you do for a living, cosmos?
do=due
“A very high percent of predatory loans were written to people of color, so much so that NCAA is now filing suit.”
—————
Chuckle, the NCAA is filing suit? Got a little March Madness on the brain, Capn? Me too.
If low income people aren’t getting loans, it’s redlining. If they are, it’s predatory lending.
I am noticing more and more that liberals just look for something to bitch about. Hell, they even begrudge our military their pensions!
I love how you TOTALLY ignored the point LJ. POVERTY is why they leave Mexico to come here. Not because they’re looking to be criminals.
“Now, normally I don’t see the need nor have the desire to defend McCain on a thread that the dems are fighting amonst themselves on, but thanks for asking!”
Sorry Hank,
Your crew has been deafeningly silent on the candidacy of McCain. According to Nathan and Hud, your team is just following the rules. :) - That was a good one.
On this particular McCain thread:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/03/mccain-the-biggest-winner-tuesday/#comments
there were a couple of Con-posters defending McCain, but not I would categorize as supporting him - a BIG difference don’t you think Hank.
Heck, Hank, you can’t blame me if I am thrilled that you guys are stuck with someone you can’t stomach, much less support.
Noticed yesterday, the Washington Post was saying that due to the protracted dog fight in the Dem party, that in the polls McCain is gaining on, and in some cases winning over both Obama and Clinton. So, you may be correct, we Dems may yet snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And if we let that happen, we do deserve what we get: John Sidney McSame, the Third (Bush administration).
Well talk radio is not letting this go.
They are riding it hard. And more quotes from this pastor are being found.
Wether or not they are looking to be criminals, I am glad to see that you agree that they are.
Look, poverty in the United States is not the same as poverty anywhere else. In fact, poverty in the United States is better than 90% of the country in many countries. Your point was theat poverty creates crime. In the United States. My point is that it has less to do with financial povery, and more to do with moral povery. Remember the mantra you profess “Your rights end where mine begin”. Fine, your right to take what is mine, does not exist. No matte your financial condition. Poverty is no excuse for criminal behavior. Period. You want to forgive it fine. I don’t. I have known far too many poor people who wouild not even THINK of committing a crime to change their condition. Of course, they had morals. They had character. They had something more. The criminal element has none.
“McCain has always been a physcal conservative.”
Does that mean he was consistently lazy?
Sorry, that one was too good to pass up. :)
Nathan,
What part of being paid by tax-payers for 21 years in the Navy do you not understand?
Dear Hank,
I’m glad that you help your wife at the clinic.
cosmos
Posted March 18, 2008 at 3:13 pm | Permalink
Nathan,
What part of being paid by tax-payers for 21 years in the Navy do you not understand?
Would you please clarify that statement? Are you equating 21 years in the military to being on welfare?
“We probably ought to do lunch, Capn. if you think that Navy retirement benefits are the same as welfare! They aren’t quite as good as most of the KPERs retiree benefits or the average fireman or policeman, but I’m not complaining.”
MY Husband gets KPERS, and it aint much. Of course, he makes crap, and with the proposal a mere 30cent raise woo hoo.
Corrections officers should be making as much as State troopers. Why aren’t they?
“Corrections officers should be making as much as State troopers. Why aren’t they?”
Because correciton officer jobs are easier to fill.
Not necessarily rightly or wrongly, but the way it is. The labor market is about supply and demand. The state government is just another employer. One that, I might add, underpays it’s employees. However, as long as they can get people for the pay, they will not have to raise the pay. Simple.
Political Mama,
Probably the same reason that a State Trooper is not making as much as the Governor does.
outlander,
I do not “begrudge our military their pensions”. I’m simply pointing out the source of their income.
“talk about Jesus”? A Republican? Whenever I’ve seen anyone try to talk about Jesus, Republicans and members of the “right” reply with a raft of quotes from the OLD testament and some mumbling about how Jesus was sent to shore up “old testament law” - that, essentially, the Gospel is irrelevant to the point of being heretical. That’s hardly the basis for the “right” claiming the scriptural high road.
people who were in the military deserve their perks. But there are a whole ton of people who didn’t go to military, or served less than a career, who do NOT get those perks.
What makes you think you are more deserving of retirement than someone else? Why am I, who takes care of elderly, have been a 12 year veteran of a volunteer ambulance corps, why is MY job considered less valuable than your contribution to society Hank?
Nathan that’s gotta be the DUMBEST comparison I’ve heard all day.
A state trooper and a corrections officer have comparable jobs. A governor and a state trooper do not.
Max
Posted March 18, 2008 at 2:29 pm | Permalink
Raw Data: Controversial Statements by Rev. Wright
by FOXNews.com
Tuesday, March 18, 2008
What’s wild is most of his statements I agree with.
Political Mama,
How many hours a week do you work in the “volunteer ambulance corps?”
On top of that, isn’t it the VOLUNTEER ambulance corps?
Political Mama,
The comparison was not between the job, but the reason.
State Troopers are exepected to be of a much higher caliber than a corrections officer.
It is a much more competitive field of employment to get into. They only accept the most highly qualified candidates.
Thus they are rewarded with higher pay.
Maybe that’s why my program messed up, don’t think I ever installed the sp2.
“And how about those white RepubliCON Kansas legislators who allow “loans” of 100 percent interest APR by legalizing “pay day lenders,” knowing that this usuary will hurt the poor and minorities?”
Actually, Capn, in Kansas the APR charged by payday loan shops is approximately 380% In Dick Cheney’s home state of Wyoming, the APR charged there is over 700%. So, many of those KS RepuliCON legislators might argue we are actually being pretty kind to our poor borrowers.
There are at least two Wichita credit unions who are offering small loan products to poorer borrowers which have short term interest rates at 36%. A much better deal.
Political Mama-
I don;t fault your service at all. You know better than that. However, you have said before that you are self employed. As such, you are responsible for your own retirement, other than social security. And while your volunteer service is commendable, and in fact indispensable, it was volunteer, and held no promise of compensation, or retirement. ALso, if someone served “less than a career” how are they entitled to a retirement? In fact, by federal law, if you participate in a pension program, afte 5 years you are vestd in that program. 100% of whatever pension earnings you have earned up to that point.
In point of fact, Hank did finish a career. That career being established by statute at 20 years, and was entitled to retirement benefits. In addition, the pay for most of that 20 years, if enlisted, was/is quite a bit less than what can be earned doing the same thing (if possible) in the civilian world.
On call at least 24 hours a week. And that’s only because I won’t do more. Nothing better than never being able to leave town, take a shower, sleep unclothed…we give up family dinners holidays, etc.
It’s not just a job, it’s a lifestyle.
You don’t think that Correction officers need also be of high caliber? Or did you forget about the correction officers that aided the escape out of ElDorado? They have to be able to shoot, they have to be trusted to interact with not one or two criminals per day, but hundreds, without hardly anyone else around. They have to be trusted to not bring contraband into the facility. I’m insulted that you think a corrections officer doesn’t work at least as equally, if not MORE than a Trooper.
Dear LJ, I began a part-time business with my husband. It is NOT self employment. And since the economy has been slowing so has business.
we both maintain other jobs. No I dont fault my service. I fault my city for not making it more important.
My husband spent 10 years in the military. He didn’t get much. Obviously he shouldn’t get as much as Hank, but come on, it was worth more than nothing.
besides, my comment to Hank had really nothing to do with how much one makes, but the value of work and pride, why does HE think his contribution was worth so much more than mine, or my husbands to society that he deserves to live better than me?
Cosmos you are one messed up person. You rant at Hank for receiving a retirement he earned. We don’t know what you receive because you have never shared anything but the fact that you drink the GW koolaid. You and every other man and woman in the USofA had the right to join the military. Put in their years and receive the same retirement benefit Hank has earned. This is a choice. People have to make choices in life.
You choose to believe GW is happening others don’t. To belittle a person for being retired military is low and little.
This thread is about Obama. By his own admission he had a minister who was devisive, racist, etc… Many many times he did this. Unless he was a quick change artist by his clothing alone this happened many Sundays. Poor judgement on Obama’s part. The speech this morning was a desperate attempt to change the subject.
Didn’t work.
Huh
Only person I see ranting here grm is you.
You are very very sad Ksgrm. Must be hard being so morally superior and all.
PMom and JR I guess it would be better if I moan and groan about my lot inlife and turn an Obama thread into a poor me thread.
Get a grip. We all make choices and live with the results of those choices. Noone owes me anything. I work to earn what I get and you know I worked more hours per week than Bill Gates but I sure did ‘t get his salary.
I guess I should complain to the ‘Life ain’t fair Committee’.
P.M.– “That speaks VOLUMES to the ethics of Obama, he is one heck of a good man. I am thoroughly impressed.”
Does this mean you’re going to watch Keith again?
See that’s exactly it Grm, you all complain that its everyone else’s fault for being poor, that they’re lazy, worthless saps on society.
The truth is much harder to stomach. So you make believe that you work harder and deserve it more than anyone else.
So much easier than to see the truth.
no perv I’m not. I’m still mad at Keith.
Nice pretty speech by Obama. It will fool many.
ANGER.
Obama used the word ANGER 10 TIMES in this speech!
Now we know the side of Obama he hasn’t shown before. The ANGRY Black Man side. The side that makes him go to a Radical Black Angry Church for 20 years!
That ANGER that Obama claims in this speech is so unproductive, is EXACTLY what he has been using to energize his base. That ANGER benevolently disguised as HOPE and CHANGE is the fuel he will use to BUY his votes by making promises to give away HOPE and CHANGE in the form of Government Programs.
That ANGER at the RICH and BIG EVIL CORPORATIONS will continue to be used to convince voters that change can occur if we simply demonize the rich and give to the poor. Yes, that ANGER that Obama complains about, is exactly what he has used and is using more then ever today to energize his base.
The Radical Libs on this blog for example, that live to HATE, will fall hook, line, and sinker for promises of prosperity by taxing the rich.
What Obama fails to mention in this speech, is how HE and Clinton both defined Rich last week in their vote to raise taxes on the rich. The rich according to what Obama DID last week (as opposed to what he says today) are single people earning $31,000 or more and married people earning $61,000 or more.
What Obama fails to mention is the Rich he is going to raise taxes on is the Majority of America!
Raising taxes on the Rich to give more to the Poor, THAT will really Unite America! That will empower the Poor, not by giving them an opportunity to earn more, but by Giving Them More For Doing Nothing!
And those Evil Corporations, when they are taxed to death they will close their doors or move move overseas eliminating even more jobs. THAT will really Unite America!
Nice pretty speech Obama. But the devil is in the details of his plan. And the devil is in his disguised use of ANGER tactics, the very same tactics he complained about today.
THAT will Unite America!
CapnAmerica Posted March 18, 2008 at 2:14 pm |
“Nevertheless, you have benefitted by not being discriminated against.”
And I am to assume some level of fault or guilt for that, even if it were true…what a ridiculous argument. Would you feel better if I went out looking for someone to discriminate against me? Would that improve anyone else’s lot in life? I don’t feel guilty about not having cancer or being struck by lighting when I see someone else has either. I may well have compassion but I didn’t cause it and your suggested remedies are what cause or increase the problem.
Do you ever reread what you write before you post?
“As for “not knowing” anyone who has systematically discriminated against anyone, that is false. You know landlords, don’t you?”
No, I’ve owned my own home for 30 years, and who are you to be telling me what I know or don’t.
“A very high percent of predatory loans were written to people of color, so much so that NCAA is now filing suit. Maybe the bankers that you know weren’t directly involved, but many bankers were.”
By the way show me where the “NCAA” is filing a lawsuit over high interest loans. I think you’ve got your N’s, C’s and A’s fouled up.
I’m not close to the banking industry, unfortunately, but I can sure has heck tell you I would be covering my risks with the interest rates I charged. And that’s not illegal or immoral discrimination. That’s just smart, justified business discrimination based on risk level and would apply to any race or color.
“And how about those white RepubliCON Kansas legislators who allow “loans” of 100 percent interest APR by legalizing “pay day lenders,” knowing that this usuary will hurt the poor and minorities?”
As far as I can tell that is pretty universal in all states, Red or Blue, it’s not a political thing. What do you suggest, cutting high risk borrowers off to all loans?
Besides, “pay day lenders” don’t discriminate on the basis of race, or with the poor and minorities. They’ll do business taking advantage of anybody, with anyone stupid enough to go there. They’d love for Warren Buffett to stroll in and finance his next acquisition.
Gee Capn, I see where you got your ‘nic’, you are most definitely the ‘Captain’ of victimhood.
I see the Obama Pajama party members are out in force!
CHANGE…
(chortles)
Pmom I don’t think I am superior over anyone. You have absolutely nothing to base that statement on. I have helped many people better themselves. I continue to do so.
What I was referring to was the fact that JR by his own admission refuses to work for the ‘man’ even if he could make more money. I tried to help you get more education so you could make more money. You berated me for the effort. I wish you and your husband were in a position to gain additional skills which would enable you both to make more money.
That is the answer to your situation. I’m not superior to anyone.
THE POOR do not want handouts. They want to work a decent job for a decent wage. They want to be able to go to work, to pay their most basic bills without having to worry about who they have to hold off on payment in order to eat.
Years ago, a person could make a decent living on one income. It wasn’t a lot, but the wage gap has increased immensely. The bosses have gotten far richer, and the workers far poorer.
Something is gonna give here really soon.
XPSP2 is XP with service pack 2 installed. Took care of most of the bugs. So it is actually better than XP
So Phantom had SP1? Ouch.
Vista is already taking a nosedive, of course–and well-deserved. :) Ick.
Pmom I genuinely don’t know what you mean by your last statement.
“Something is gonna give here really soon.”
What do you think is going to happen. What do you expect to happen when Hillary or Obama is prez?
It will be awhile before the transition to Vista takes over. Vista Ultimate can utilize 8gb of memory right out of the box and of course is 64bit. Once the faster multicores come out later in the year, everyone that does gaming, video or heavy graphic intensive applications will boost the sales. The new processors are on the order of several times faster than the top of the line Xeon processors.
That will require the sophistication of Vista to run.
Other than that, if you just blog, email and do light stuff - Windows XP will serve you for quite awhile. :)
ksgrm,
I’m sorry that you cannot recognize the obvious.
Hank Price posted March 18, 2008 at 1:30 pm
“Poverty isn’t the problem of our society, it’s a symptom of liberalism.”
“Liberals” pay taxes.
Hank Price’s 21 year career in the Navy was funded by taxes. His retirement benefits are funded by taxes.
Hank Price’s career and benefits were, and are partly paid for by “liberals”.
Of course, you know people like cosmos would never live a tube under hundreds of feet of water for weeks at time like Hank did.
cosmos just likes to whine about people who sacrificed much by serving in the military.
Sometimes, I’d like to round the radical left in a central area and give them a special delivery from a b-2 bomber, just to show them that we retired military still care about them. :D
That will require the sophistication of Vista to run.
And, presumably, actually support drivers for third-party vendors. :) I’ll be overjoyed when Vista finally isn’t a total clusterf*ck, but I suspect Ballmer & Co. might just be better off moving on to Windows 7.
Just My Opinion®.
Cosmos if you really can’t grasp the reality of what the military has done and continues to do for you then there nothing more I can say to you. It is just so ironic that the liberal side of this blog think it is perfectly acceptable to reward many people with welfare even though they won’t work while very able to do so and yet they refer to earned military benefits as welfare.
CapnAmerica
Posted March 18, 2008 at 2:14 pm | Permalink
A very high percent of predatory loans were written to people of color, so much so that NCAA is now filing suit. Maybe the bankers that you know weren’t directly involved, but many bankers were.
————————————————–
NCAA? I would think they’d be pretty busy with the Final Four, but maybe they have a new mission now?
P-Mom makes a valid point.
Why do gov’t employees earn their retirement pensions, but nobody else does?
Is a teacher more valued than an LPN doing home-care? Is a fireman more important to society than a computer programmer? A jarhead than a prison pastor?
The simple fact is that the gov’t workers figured out a way to get the system to work for them, and that’s one reason that so many gov’t workers are unionized.
Meanwhile, the some of the same people that benefit (Hank, Boxlock, Regular) from living on the taxpayer’s dime b!tch and moan about taxes being too high and the damn welfare queens.
Figures.
I don’t know Max - after Georgia crashed their party I suspect the NCAA is still reeling.
:)
Thanks for providing the accurate figures on the “payday loan” legal scams.
Charging interest like that would make the Gotti crime family blush for shame.
Max, BoxofRocks, et al.
Obviously I meant NAACP.
Sheesh, get a life . . .
JR mentioned in a 3:11 post that talk radio is not letting this go. It’s not at all clear why this would be surprising or relevant, especially if the reference is to Limbaugh or Hannity. These commentators will be switching back and forth between Obama and Clinton from now until the nomination is secured with any witch’s brew they can find. Right now, Obama has the lead in pledged delegates, so the focus has mostly been on Obama. If Clinton manages to forge ahead or gets the nomination via superdelegates, then Limbaugh and Hannity will be endlessly focusing on Clinton. Furthermore, Obama’s shot at attracting Limbaugh and Hannity listeners is probably pretty low. While he’s drawn some Republicans in the primaries, it’s a safe bet they were not devotees of conservative talk radio. Obama and Clinton will be looking to draw those in the moderate middle and those who trend toward the left. McCain will be looking to draw the same bunch in the moderate middle and those who trend toward the right. Finally, if Obama and Clinton somehow require approval from Hannity and Limbaugh if they want to get elected in November, then Brownlee can stop the presses here at We Blog straight away, because it’s never going to happen.
cosmos’s point is sound ksgrm.
And you have very little in the way of understanding as to welfare. Unless you are a single mom, it is damned hard to get any welfare.
And no, I haven’t tried. There are people more needing of it than me. But this idea that there are is any kind of population paid not to work is about 20 years out of date.
ksgrm,
You seem to have a severe reading problem.
I did not criticize the “military”. I pointed out that Hank’s career was partly paid for by “liberals”, who he ironically blames for causing “poverty”.
My point “Bentley” is that talk radio started this ball rolling and they are not about to let it stop.
I don’t pretend for a minute that that audience would ever vote for a Democrat.
But as long as they are keeping the sound bites alive and digging up more, this story will be on all the media.
This after talk radio AND the the media have given Obama a total pass these last several months.
I don’t think Obama recovers from this.
Be careful about repealing NAFTA. 38 States have Canada as the biggest customer of which 36 have seen exports to them increase since NAFTA. Our labour standards are as high with a bigger minimum wage, similar union wages, health care and similar enviornmental policies. Obama and Clinton in their speeches in Ohio about NAFTA did not mention Ohio has a trade SURPLUS with Canada, exporting $6.2 billion in machined/manufactured goods and taking in $4.2, almost all in energy. Net out the rise in energy costs and we have a near balanced or slight trade deficit with America. The US has the same right to our energy as we do under NAFTA for if there is a shorage we cannot keep supplies at home and must share production, whereas Mexico doesn’t. The energy policy was based on the sound idea that the US produces things we need so withholding energy from our source of everday needs is stupid. You can imagine how we would re-negotiate that part now. I have many friends who hate NAFTA and want to get rid of it because like you, only a few, mostly multinationals, benefitted from that treaty. Local joke for the acronym NAFTA Not Another F…..g Trade Agreement!
Yup, I was thinking the same thing, Bentley.
There’s a hard-core 20 million angry white men who haven’t succeeded to the extent that they feel they should have, so they need scape-goats like minorities and feminists and gays and liberals to blame.
(In