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Actions speak louder than words. This is especially true for politicians who often say one thing during a campaign and another in office.

He and his family sat in those pews for 20 years listening to racist anti-american garbage. The ‘pastor’ was a mentor and close associate. Anyone else would have packed up and found another church. One not lead by a racist.

Obama is not presidential timber.

I’m stunned.

“ksgrm” and “ProudMan” are still anti-Obama.

You could knock me over with a truck.

MH I was never anti Obama. Ck my posts. I have said in the past that he seems almost too naive for the prez but that has been my only objection. Look before leaping. It might save you a sore neck.

AGAIN he made with the praise for Republicans and conservatives!

Obama has to be the most inept politician in history.

I thought the speech was quite good, and had many truths to it. However, one he left out was the effect on the black community of black hate mongers and race prostitutes like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and yes, The Reverend Wright. Their constant point to the whitey as the source of their problems only leads to to despair, and lack of introspection on the part of black America. To fix the cause of your problem outside your influence, removes any hope of changing your situation. Lack of hope breeds despair, despair breeds hate, hate breeds violence. THis is the true crime that the likes of Jackson, Sharpton, and apparently Wright has committed. Although from what I can tell, Wright has committed this to a far less degree, and practices what he preaches about taking care of his fellow man.
Still, I think it would have been a great part to acknowledge this fact in such a “momentous” speech about race.

Strange, J R.

If he’s so inept, why is he kicking the Queen of Mean’s ass?

Obama is showing exactly how to win this thing: take the right-wing smear and show how it’s destroying the political process–which is exactly what it’s doing.

Make the hate-mongers the problem (which they are) and overcome them by standing above them.

TDT
Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:00 pm | Permalink
Proudman – Your generalities show your ignorance. He did not sit in the pews listening to racist rhetoric for 20 years.

By his own admission he has belonged to this church for 20 years. Where do you think he was sitting during these years?

It will be intereting to see how this speech on race in America benefits him in the polls.

I really didn’t see much in it other than more of the same old liberal claptrap.

I think the mulatto mesiah may have peaked.

The reason that black denunciations of white society resonate so strongly and are met with such a fierce backlash is because we know in our hearts, the blacks are right.

The systematic discrimination we’ve shown to the African-American over the centuries cannot be denied. The petty tokenism (like affirmative-action) that we propose as a way of recompense is far too little, too late.

White America refuses to face up to what it’s done because it is just too painful and difficult.

Far easier just to blame the victims for their lack of “individual responsibility.”

If Hank is against it, you know it’s good.

That’s proof positive.

I see throughout the blogosphere that the Clinton and Republican supporters watched the speech with the mute button on. And it is clear that they have made the choice to further the racial divide in America.

I used to get upset, now I just smile and feel sorry for such ignorance and arrogance. I pray for the Americans in this country who care more about race than they do their children’s future in this country. Most of the anti-Obama comments posted here come from those who have lazy, uneducated thoughts! In a way, I’m glad Rev. Wright’s offensive remarks have been broadcasted throughout America. It has exposed the ignorance and arrogance of those who think they are the deciders of this country.

Oh come now Capn!

You and Hank should be holding hands according to Obama!

Not me. No thanks.

Cap you are wrong for so many reasons that I can’t list them all here. The democratic party led by Bill Clinton was the first racist attack on Obama. Don’t ignore the truth in your rush to blame repubs.

Linda I too expect great things from this man just not in this election cycle. He is collecting to much baggage to carry to the Whitehouse.

At least he didn’t go along with Romney’s idea that it doesn’t matter what version of Christian you are AS LONG AS YOU ARE CHRISTIAN! Seems he realizes that many of us became ‘unchurched’ for a reason.

Ben which party is Romney the front runner for prez?

Come on, America, grow up. After reading blogs on multiple websites, I cannot believe that people don’t get it. Do you really believe that we should “throw away” every friend, relative, and offspring who makes a statement with which we disagree? Would you disown every child or relative who holds a belief different from your own? Then, why do you think it important for Obama to do that?

It is better that we address these differences (like he just did) in simple, very clear language, explaining why we denounce or repudiate the message so we can help each other and work together as a people. Throwing out the baby with the bath water is not the answer. I thought Obama’s speech was brave, insightful, intelligent, and proved to me that he is the best person we could hope to have as our president. We would be so fortunate.

Obama 08

Capn,

You have confused racism with oppression and discrimination. Try looking them up. A racist is a racist is a racist. There are no boundaries of position, power, race, creed, or color. A racist is a racist.

Everyone who thinks the remarks of Rev Wright are any different than any other preacher, minister, priest or revernd of today is fooling themselves.
Google any well known famous religious person…their quotes are racist, bigotry, hateful, anti American and sometime riot inducing. Try Pat Roberston, Jerry Falwell, or John Hagee…all guest at the White House over the years, and advisors. Turn on your TV, your radio…listen. There is good in everyone…and racism in all of us. That is all Obama was saying. Look in your mirror, look at your spiritual leader…do you not see it…do you not hear it?

Well I’ve done my share of defending Obama.

But no more. I think he has gotten WAY to big a pass from the media to this point. I hate to think what else will be found now .

Good morning Capn.!

#
CapnAmerica
Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

McCain is Bush’s third term.

Sorry, Hank.

There just aren’t that many stupid people left. They’ve wised up . . .

What mkes you think that running a Senator that is further to the left of Lurch, the defeated opponent of ’second-term-Bush’ is the answer?

Amazing! The radical left has no idea how the democrats lost the Whitehouse in 2004 and managed to win the Congress in 2006!

(Hint: Running a socialist is not the answer!)

I have listened very carefully to Mr. Obama’s speech and I, for one, am sad that BOTH Barrack’s examination and the blog commentators thus far have missed the central core of current racial divide:

Poverty.

Poverty breeds resentment, despiration and inequities at every level of our culture. It affects black americans in northern cities and white americans in southern towns. It cripples education, the courts and our jails.

I am also sad to see so many comments posted that look for the ‘other’ – be it arab, black, white or gay – to blame.

Sen. Obama should be commended for speaking so candidly on a very risky and politically incorrect subject. Would any of US in his position be so brave?

Phillip Brownlee,

As I am listening to Obama’s speech, I, too, am having a difficult time understanding your description “grown up”. I know you guys don’t read these threads much, but I hope somehow that you are moved to explain that term.

I would have used “courageous”, “honest” and frankly “skillful” in terms of turning around a criticism of him into statements about this candidate’s undeniable strengths.

Especially since the Republicans liked to say “I voted for bush ’cause he’s just like ordinary folk’.

This was one of the most profound speeches i have ever heard. Yeah it would have been politically correct for Obama to ditch his reverend, but it is apparent to me that he’s not going to ditch someone so important to him for his own gain.

That speaks VOLUMES to the ethics of Obama, he is one heck of a good man. I am thoroughly impressed.

And he isn’t doing what republicans would do, defend, deflect and deny. He says I don’t agree, and I still love him, I see a bigger picture.

It just figures there would be people who would take this speech and try to turn it nasty. sadly, they’re the very reasons why I cannot support Obama in the election because THESE are the kind of people who need to be defeated, not worked with.

BS Bruce!

Poverty is not the cause of any social problems! Poverty in the U.S. is a temporary condition if you are not a ‘victim’ of a poverty culture.

A culture of poverty that race baiters like the good Rev. Wright use to maintain their positions of power and prominance in the black community.

No Bruce, Poverty isn’t the problem of our society, it’s a symptom of liberalism.

For all of you Republicans who think that Rev. Wright said something horrible and Michelle Obama was wrong for what she said…

I really want you to try to explain these words:

Why should God bless America?
She’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back
On everything that made her what she is

Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sin and heal our land

The courts ruled prayer out of our schools
In June of ‘62
Told the children “you are your own God now
So you can make the rules”
O say can you see what that choice
Has cost us to this day
America, one nation under God, has gone astray

Why should God bless America?
Shes’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back on everything
That made her what she is

Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sins and heal our land

In ‘73 the Courts said we
Could take the unborn lives
The choice is yours don’t worry now
It’s not a wrong, it’s your right

But just because they made it law
Does not change God’s command
The most that we can hope for is
God’s mercy on our land

Why should God bless America?
She’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back on everything
That made her what she is

Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sins and heal our land

(Reading from 2nd Chronicles 7:14) If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and forgive their sin and heal their land

God have mercy on America forgive her sins and heal our land

This was sung before one of the GOP Presidential debates.

Steven,

On the question about calling Obama’s speech “grown up,” I have a thought. When I listen to bush speak I feel like I’ve been lectured. He frequently states something and then repeats it as if his audience might be too stupid to understand and he needs to clarify. How often do you hear him say, “in other words…?” Even his tone is condescending. Because to me bush seems like a terribly arrogant man I never think he might be aware of his inadequacies as a speaker. I come away with the feeling he thinks of himself as greatly superior.

When Barack spoke today he treated us, his audience, with respect. It was as one adult would speak with another.

Of course, my thoughts and Mr. Brownlee’s thoughts may be very different and I’m not speaking for anyone but me.

Maybe Mr. Brownlee had a second to write an intro to a topic he thought we would want to discuss and he did a good job in a hurry but could have done a better one with more time.

A couple of theories.

Hank, you’re full of shit. Poverty is the main cause of all the bad things that happen.

Wars, suicides, Communism, Socialism, Marxism, Fascism, starvation, depression, all of them are impacted by poverty.

You see it in every single statistic, crime rates go up when poverty rates increase. And it gets worse when the haves turn around and blame it on those who have not. Eventually the have nots get tired of being told how they haven’t done enough to get ahead. And they decide to ‘do’ something about it by getting rid of the ‘haves’.

Political_mama
Posted March 18, 2008 at 1:36 pm | Permalink
Hank, you’re full of shit. Poverty is the main cause of all the bad things that happen.

——–

Political Mama–

You are just wrong. I have known far too many poor people that would not think of taking what is not theirs. You diss them by lumping them in with the useless pos that feel otherwise. Criminal activity for the most part is not caused by being financially poor, but instead by beig morally bancrupt.

Well of course my electoral preference is known.

That said? His pretty words didn’t impress me anymore than they ever do. Just more of the same.

It was impressive. I was worried, and thought, uh-oh, here comes his downfall. And then he stood up, wrote an incredible and thoughtful speech, and stood before the nation and spoke to us about that which most politicians won’t touch with a ten foot pole. Good for him!!It was the best thing he could have done in this situation.

Hank,

Thanks for sharing your valuable insights about this Democratic candidate.

Care to share your wise thoughts on your party’s candidate.

Anyone else notice how the right wing folk are strangely silent on their candidate? Wonder what that means?…

Steven,

When the thread is about McCain, then we will talk about McCain.

There is nothing “strange” about our talking about the subject matter which is posted by the Ediotrs.

CapnAmerica
Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:17 pm |

“The systematic discrimination we’ve shown to the African-American over the centuries cannot be denied. The petty tokenism (like affirmative-action) that we propose as a way of recompense is far too little, too late.
Far easier just to blame the victims for their lack of “individual responsibility.”

What a crock of B.S., which is typical considering the source.
I have not, and nobody I know, has systematically discriminated against anyone, black or any other color. I don’t have either the time or position to have an effect on anyone else anyway.
I work to provide for my family, improve our lot in life, provide for the future, and get along the best I can. And yes, it most certainly is the level of individual responsibility that always determines ones success or lack thereof in the vast majority of cases.
Capn, you are their worst enemy, by attempting to keep them down on the ‘entitlement plantation’ with your propagation of the lie that it’s always someone else’s fault besides the individual.
Wise up.

“Having seen the welfare system up close, I happen to agree that it helps perpetuate poverty, not by giving bums a free ride (thought that does happen), but rather by a maze of rules, requirements, and mandatory actions, designed supposedly to help these people, but in reality keep them busy with remaining within the system itself.”

Excellent point, Rage. Welfare, I think, from a similar close view, always takes more from people than it ever gives them. Conservatives don’t ever seem to get that. If they did, they might be able to make some intelligent comments on the subject.

Sorry, Nathan, I guess I have just missed you guys’ irrational exuberance over your candidate. :)

Hank Price posted March 18, 2008 at 1:30 pm

“Poverty isn’t the problem of our society, it’s a symptom of liberalism.”

What percentage of your wealth does your wife provide? And since you served in the Navy, are you getting any taxpayer-funded benefits?

Lots of good stuff posted above. LH, Bruce, Siam thanks for your fresh perspectives.

J R, Steven, LindainKs, MH, Phant, Rage, TDT and P-Mom are interesting as always.

As for Nathan’s question:

“So what about a student who scores higher on tests and is more qualified on an acceptance into a school and is then turned down for a less qualified person simply because that person is black?”

Race is a factor as well as test scores for college admission. So is age, past experience, the admission essay, volunteer work, economic status, extra-curricular activities and geographic location.

George Bush got accepted to Andover Prep School partly because he was from Texas and the admission office seeks diversity.

That’s hardly the same thing as getting routinely shaken down by cops for DWB, “driving while black.”

Political_mama
Posted March 18, 2008 at 1:49 pm | Permalink
Sure LJ, and all those ‘illegal aliens’ that everyone hates so much, they’re just breaking the law because they feel like it right?

I mean you and I, we’d travel across wide expanses of deserts and risk jail to live in Mexico, right?

If you want to talk about illegal aliens, I’d be happy to oblige. Your post was about how poverty causes crime. Different subject. However, I am glad to note that you think being an illegal alien is a crime. Thanks!

To empirically examine Nathan’s claim that conservative posters talk about McCain on “McCain threads”, check out the number of “CONLove” posts for McCain on this thread. I think I found zero.

http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/03/advising-mccain-lobbying-for-eads/#comments

While Barack Obama was speaking in Pennsylvania this morning, the Republic Party candidate John WMD McCain forget who the enemy is in Iraq.

Today he told reporters that Iran was training al Qaeda fighters and sending them into Iraq. This is hilarious because of course Iran is Shiite and al Qaeda is Sunni, so they hate each other.

Pressed to elaborate, McCain said it was “common knowledge and has been reported in the media that al-Qaeda is going back into Iran and receiving training and are coming back into Iraq from Iran, that’s well known. And it’s unfortunate.”

Vinegar Joe Lieberman quickly intervened, suggesting that Iran is training Shiite extremists and sending them into Iraq.

So there you have it, old foreign policy wonk and most-credible-war-on-terror-guy McCain can’t remember which religious sect aligns with which ancient hatred, because he is senile.

What would you suggest Capn?

Why, thank you for asking, Boxlock.

What I would suggest is

1. voting for legislators who will take a harder stand against discrimination against poor and minorities. Racism should carry a jail term the same as pushing drugs and terrorism, for it IS a kind of terrorism.

2. getting gov’t to help people who need help instead of helping people who are already rich.

3. reversing the policies that gutted the only counter-weight to the rich-getting-richer in this country, labor unions.

4. spending as much on education as we do on our military. Right now, we spend eight times more on the military.

5. repeal NAFTA and all the other so-called “free trade” treaties that are bleeding good jobs out of the US and require “fair trade” agreements, so that our workers aren’t competing against de facto slave labor in Occupied Guam.

6. pass a “living wage” law so that a full-time working Mom for instance can make enough to live on.

That would be a hellova good start.

Wright’s tirade was nothing more than venting pent-up anger. Anger accumulated over many years of the reality of being treated because you’re black in America. And where does that fault belong?

Certainly not with Obama.

Wow, MAX!

When Rev. Wright runs for President, I won’t vote for him!

CapnAmerica,

My father WORKED for 20 years in the Navy to EARN his retirement.

That is not Welfare.

“They aren’t quite as good as most of the KPERs retiree benefits or the average fireman or policeman, but I’m not complaining.”

I will second that.

Why don’t I believe anything Obamanation says?
Planned Parenthood is doing unto nearly half of his tiny dark-skinned brothers and sisters the mangling, dismembering, poisoning, and beheading which pleases him no end, especially when he gets the blood-stained “contributions” from the abortion mills raking in the huge profits.
Obamanation is the Judas goat of the black race.

Dear Hank Price,

It wasn’t a “diversion”.

You said that poverty is a “symptom of liberalism”.

But your money seems to come from tax-payers, and your wife.

Dear cosmos,

“But your money seems to come from tax-payers, and your wife.”

Care to explain your mischaracterization of my financial status?

I explained in detail last month of how I got to where I am financialy. It was do to very hard work on my wife’s part and on my part. We still work at the clinic about 50 hours a week and take work home.

What do you do for a living, cosmos?

“A very high percent of predatory loans were written to people of color, so much so that NCAA is now filing suit.”

—————

Chuckle, the NCAA is filing suit? Got a little March Madness on the brain, Capn? Me too.

If low income people aren’t getting loans, it’s redlining. If they are, it’s predatory lending.

I am noticing more and more that liberals just look for something to bitch about. Hell, they even begrudge our military their pensions!

“Now, normally I don’t see the need nor have the desire to defend McCain on a thread that the dems are fighting amonst themselves on, but thanks for asking!”

Sorry Hank,

Your crew has been deafeningly silent on the candidacy of McCain. According to Nathan and Hud, your team is just following the rules. :) – That was a good one.

On this particular McCain thread:

http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/03/mccain-the-biggest-winner-tuesday/#comments

there were a couple of Con-posters defending McCain, but not I would categorize as supporting him – a BIG difference don’t you think Hank.

Heck, Hank, you can’t blame me if I am thrilled that you guys are stuck with someone you can’t stomach, much less support.

Noticed yesterday, the Washington Post was saying that due to the protracted dog fight in the Dem party, that in the polls McCain is gaining on, and in some cases winning over both Obama and Clinton. So, you may be correct, we Dems may yet snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And if we let that happen, we do deserve what we get: John Sidney McSame, the Third (Bush administration).

Wether or not they are looking to be criminals, I am glad to see that you agree that they are.
Look, poverty in the United States is not the same as poverty anywhere else. In fact, poverty in the United States is better than 90% of the country in many countries. Your point was theat poverty creates crime. In the United States. My point is that it has less to do with financial povery, and more to do with moral povery. Remember the mantra you profess “Your rights end where mine begin”. Fine, your right to take what is mine, does not exist. No matte your financial condition. Poverty is no excuse for criminal behavior. Period. You want to forgive it fine. I don’t. I have known far too many poor people who wouild not even THINK of committing a crime to change their condition. Of course, they had morals. They had character. They had something more. The criminal element has none.

Nathan,

What part of being paid by tax-payers for 21 years in the Navy do you not understand?

Dear Hank,

I’m glad that you help your wife at the clinic.

“We probably ought to do lunch, Capn. if you think that Navy retirement benefits are the same as welfare! They aren’t quite as good as most of the KPERs retiree benefits or the average fireman or policeman, but I’m not complaining.”

MY Husband gets KPERS, and it aint much. Of course, he makes crap, and with the proposal a mere 30cent raise woo hoo.

Corrections officers should be making as much as State troopers. Why aren’t they?

Political Mama,

Probably the same reason that a State Trooper is not making as much as the Governor does.

“talk about Jesus”? A Republican? Whenever I’ve seen anyone try to talk about Jesus, Republicans and members of the “right” reply with a raft of quotes from the OLD testament and some mumbling about how Jesus was sent to shore up “old testament law” – that, essentially, the Gospel is irrelevant to the point of being heretical. That’s hardly the basis for the “right” claiming the scriptural high road.

Nathan that’s gotta be the DUMBEST comparison I’ve heard all day.

A state trooper and a corrections officer have comparable jobs. A governor and a state trooper do not.

Political Mama,

How many hours a week do you work in the “volunteer ambulance corps?”

On top of that, isn’t it the VOLUNTEER ambulance corps?

Maybe that’s why my program messed up, don’t think I ever installed the sp2.

Political Mama-

I don;t fault your service at all. You know better than that. However, you have said before that you are self employed. As such, you are responsible for your own retirement, other than social security. And while your volunteer service is commendable, and in fact indispensable, it was volunteer, and held no promise of compensation, or retirement. ALso, if someone served “less than a career” how are they entitled to a retirement? In fact, by federal law, if you participate in a pension program, afte 5 years you are vestd in that program. 100% of whatever pension earnings you have earned up to that point.
In point of fact, Hank did finish a career. That career being established by statute at 20 years, and was entitled to retirement benefits. In addition, the pay for most of that 20 years, if enlisted, was/is quite a bit less than what can be earned doing the same thing (if possible) in the civilian world.

Dear LJ, I began a part-time business with my husband. It is NOT self employment. And since the economy has been slowing so has business.

we both maintain other jobs. No I dont fault my service. I fault my city for not making it more important.

My husband spent 10 years in the military. He didn’t get much. Obviously he shouldn’t get as much as Hank, but come on, it was worth more than nothing.

Cosmos you are one messed up person. You rant at Hank for receiving a retirement he earned. We don’t know what you receive because you have never shared anything but the fact that you drink the GW koolaid. You and every other man and woman in the USofA had the right to join the military. Put in their years and receive the same retirement benefit Hank has earned. This is a choice. People have to make choices in life.

You choose to believe GW is happening others don’t. To belittle a person for being retired military is low and little.

This thread is about Obama. By his own admission he had a minister who was devisive, racist, etc… Many many times he did this. Unless he was a quick change artist by his clothing alone this happened many Sundays. Poor judgement on Obama’s part. The speech this morning was a desperate attempt to change the subject.

Didn’t work.

You are very very sad Ksgrm. Must be hard being so morally superior and all.

P.M.– “That speaks VOLUMES to the ethics of Obama, he is one heck of a good man. I am thoroughly impressed.”

Does this mean you’re going to watch Keith again?

no perv I’m not. I’m still mad at Keith.

CapnAmerica Posted March 18, 2008 at 2:14 pm |
“Nevertheless, you have benefitted by not being discriminated against.”

And I am to assume some level of fault or guilt for that, even if it were true…what a ridiculous argument. Would you feel better if I went out looking for someone to discriminate against me? Would that improve anyone else’s lot in life? I don’t feel guilty about not having cancer or being struck by lighting when I see someone else has either. I may well have compassion but I didn’t cause it and your suggested remedies are what cause or increase the problem.
Do you ever reread what you write before you post?

“As for “not knowing” anyone who has systematically discriminated against anyone, that is false. You know landlords, don’t you?”

No, I’ve owned my own home for 30 years, and who are you to be telling me what I know or don’t.

“A very high percent of predatory loans were written to people of color, so much so that NCAA is now filing suit. Maybe the bankers that you know weren’t directly involved, but many bankers were.”

By the way show me where the “NCAA” is filing a lawsuit over high interest loans. I think you’ve got your N’s, C’s and A’s fouled up.
I’m not close to the banking industry, unfortunately, but I can sure has heck tell you I would be covering my risks with the interest rates I charged. And that’s not illegal or immoral discrimination. That’s just smart, justified business discrimination based on risk level and would apply to any race or color.

“And how about those white RepubliCON Kansas legislators who allow “loans” of 100 percent interest APR by legalizing “pay day lenders,” knowing that this usuary will hurt the poor and minorities?”
As far as I can tell that is pretty universal in all states, Red or Blue, it’s not a political thing. What do you suggest, cutting high risk borrowers off to all loans?
Besides, “pay day lenders” don’t discriminate on the basis of race, or with the poor and minorities. They’ll do business taking advantage of anybody, with anyone stupid enough to go there. They’d love for Warren Buffett to stroll in and finance his next acquisition.
Gee Capn, I see where you got your ‘nic’, you are most definitely the ‘Captain’ of victimhood.

Pmom I don’t think I am superior over anyone. You have absolutely nothing to base that statement on. I have helped many people better themselves. I continue to do so.

What I was referring to was the fact that JR by his own admission refuses to work for the ‘man’ even if he could make more money. I tried to help you get more education so you could make more money. You berated me for the effort. I wish you and your husband were in a position to gain additional skills which would enable you both to make more money.

That is the answer to your situation. I’m not superior to anyone.

XPSP2 is XP with service pack 2 installed. Took care of most of the bugs. So it is actually better than XP

So Phantom had SP1? Ouch.

Vista is already taking a nosedive, of course–and well-deserved. :) Ick.

It will be awhile before the transition to Vista takes over. Vista Ultimate can utilize 8gb of memory right out of the box and of course is 64bit. Once the faster multicores come out later in the year, everyone that does gaming, video or heavy graphic intensive applications will boost the sales. The new processors are on the order of several times faster than the top of the line Xeon processors.

That will require the sophistication of Vista to run.

Other than that, if you just blog, email and do light stuff – Windows XP will serve you for quite awhile. :)

Of course, you know people like cosmos would never live a tube under hundreds of feet of water for weeks at time like Hank did.

cosmos just likes to whine about people who sacrificed much by serving in the military.

Sometimes, I’d like to round the radical left in a central area and give them a special delivery from a b-2 bomber, just to show them that we retired military still care about them. :D

Cosmos if you really can’t grasp the reality of what the military has done and continues to do for you then there nothing more I can say to you. It is just so ironic that the liberal side of this blog think it is perfectly acceptable to reward many people with welfare even though they won’t work while very able to do so and yet they refer to earned military benefits as welfare.

P-Mom makes a valid point.

Why do gov’t employees earn their retirement pensions, but nobody else does?

Is a teacher more valued than an LPN doing home-care? Is a fireman more important to society than a computer programmer? A jarhead than a prison pastor?

The simple fact is that the gov’t workers figured out a way to get the system to work for them, and that’s one reason that so many gov’t workers are unionized.

Meanwhile, the some of the same people that benefit (Hank, Boxlock, Regular) from living on the taxpayer’s dime b!tch and moan about taxes being too high and the damn welfare queens.

Figures.

Thanks for providing the accurate figures on the “payday loan” legal scams.

Charging interest like that would make the Gotti crime family blush for shame.

JR mentioned in a 3:11 post that talk radio is not letting this go. It’s not at all clear why this would be surprising or relevant, especially if the reference is to Limbaugh or Hannity. These commentators will be switching back and forth between Obama and Clinton from now until the nomination is secured with any witch’s brew they can find. Right now, Obama has the lead in pledged delegates, so the focus has mostly been on Obama. If Clinton manages to forge ahead or gets the nomination via superdelegates, then Limbaugh and Hannity will be endlessly focusing on Clinton. Furthermore, Obama’s shot at attracting Limbaugh and Hannity listeners is probably pretty low. While he’s drawn some Republicans in the primaries, it’s a safe bet they were not devotees of conservative talk radio. Obama and Clinton will be looking to draw those in the moderate middle and those who trend toward the left. McCain will be looking to draw the same bunch in the moderate middle and those who trend toward the right. Finally, if Obama and Clinton somehow require approval from Hannity and Limbaugh if they want to get elected in November, then Brownlee can stop the presses here at We Blog straight away, because it’s never going to happen.

ksgrm,

You seem to have a severe reading problem.

I did not criticize the “military”. I pointed out that Hank’s career was partly paid for by “liberals”, who he ironically blames for causing “poverty”.

Be careful about repealing NAFTA. 38 States have Canada as the biggest customer of which 36 have seen exports to them increase since NAFTA. Our labour standards are as high with a bigger minimum wage, similar union wages, health care and similar enviornmental policies. Obama and Clinton in their speeches in Ohio about NAFTA did not mention Ohio has a trade SURPLUS with Canada, exporting $6.2 billion in machined/manufactured goods and taking in $4.2, almost all in energy. Net out the rise in energy costs and we have a near balanced or slight trade deficit with America. The US has the same right to our energy as we do under NAFTA for if there is a shorage we cannot keep supplies at home and must share production, whereas Mexico doesn’t. The energy policy was based on the sound idea that the US produces things we need so withholding energy from our source of everday needs is stupid. You can imagine how we would re-negotiate that part now. I have many friends who hate NAFTA and want to get rid of it because like you, only a few, mostly multinationals, benefitted from that treaty. Local joke for the acronym NAFTA Not Another F…..g Trade Agreement!

cosmos
Posted March 18, 2008 at 2:04 pm | Permalink
Hank Price posted March 18, 2008 at 1:30 pm

“Poverty isn’t the problem of our society, it’s a symptom of liberalism.”

What percentage of your wealth does your wife provide? And since you served in the Navy, are you getting any taxpayer-funded benefits?

Cosmos this is what started the discussion. I merely stated no one know what you live on or for that matter what I live on. Anytime there is a hard discussion like this about libs who do something wrong it inevitably turns to ‘welfare’ for our career military participants.

Unless we are all going to tell how we retired and on what, then I suggest that military benefits with the exception of a big ‘thank you’ for their service should be off limits and not be used to demean our military.

And by the way I don’t even know if you have a husband/wife or if they contribute to your support. Why is that knowledge any of your business when it comes to others?

JR: Sometimes mainstream media pick up on Limbaugh, and sometimes they don’t. They’ll need a new flufftacular before long because the public gets bored with these stories after a few days. So while Limbaugh and Hannity will still be yammering, the networks will have to alight on a new piece of hysteria to drive the ratings up. Now, that new piece of hysteria might well be centered around Obama. It might have something to do with Clinton. Or, maybe McCain will find his way into the cycle somehow. It mostly depends, by the way, on the partisan viewpoint of the beholder as to the extent to which a candidate gets picked on by the chattering class.

Wow, JC.

That was complete drivel–wholly without merit.

Crawl back under your rock now.

“Something is gonna give here really soon.” p.m. and ksgrm.

If history is a guide, rich people will hire poor people to shoot even poorer people who want part of what rich people stole through laws. As in Central America and Mexico. That’s what is most likely to give, stupid bitches.

He said nothing…Maybe his best friend the preacher can find him a job. Between the racist preacher and the inbred Farrakhan..He is done!!
Sad because I hate McCain and the female cow thats lying and running as a Demo.

Obama has the lead in delegates and, even if Clinton wins by 10 to 15 points in Pennsylvania, he will still be ahead. Then they move on to the other states. He has a chance to do well in a fair percentage of those states, so chances are good that when the voting is over, he will be ahead. For Clinton to win, she will need the superdelegates. According to party rules, she can win if the superdelegates put her over the top. But most projected maps of the fall election show that a Clinton nomination leads to a rerun of the 2000 and 2004 campaigns, with the same white-knuckle margins in the same battleground states. She will need considerable support from Obama’s backers to put her over the top. It’s not at all unrealistic to suspect that some of these same backers will resent it if the nomination goes in the direction of a superdelegate override. So it’s a risky move for superdelegates to nominate her if she’s behind in pledged delegates as well as the popular vote. Perhaps Obama will decline in the remaining Democratic primaries to the extent that Clinton takes the lead by June. If that happens, fair enough. She should get the nomination in that case. But saying Obama won’t survive this is the equivalent of saying the leader in the Democratic primary should cower and huddle in a corner every time Hannity or someone else on Fox huffs and puffs and tries to blow the house down. Obama stood up today and made the speech. The campaign goes on. News cycles shift. And Democrats, to the extent that Bush got us into an unending war and McCain wants to continue it, should never, ever, allow Republicans to dictate the terms of the debate.

Capn, this quote of yours is flat wrong:

“Racism is not an “idea” of superiority–it’s an act of discrimination that harms others based on race.”

Actually, a racist does not have to have any power at all.

A Racist only has to have hate in his heart towards a group that is “different” —

Discrimination might require some amount of “power” but any idiot can be a racist.

We begin to see a real possibility that the popular vote will shift in Senator Clinton’s favor.

This will continue. I think Senator Clinton wins Pennsylvania by 20+ after this latest.

And we know about momentum.

Obama is now losing votes from both ends. The moderates will be put off by this episode. Those on the left are suspicious of his desire to work with Republicans.

BUT he still has Olberman and MSNBC slobbering over him.

Unlike the Liberal wannabes that ask for social handouts from the government, the military actually works for their pay, pays taxes and do many other things that the fungus of America do not.

JimmyMac posted March 18, 2008 at 4:25 pm

“Of course, you know people like cosmos would never live a tube under hundreds of feet of water for weeks at time like Hank did.”

Al Gore took two trips in a sub under the Arctic ice. One trip was with the four-star admiral Bruce DeMar, who headed the Navy’s Nuclear Propulsion Program.

Gore convinced the Navy to release their Arctic ice data under careful safeguards to climate scientists.

‘Newly Declassified Submarine Data Will Help Study Of Arctic Ice’
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/01/980129074316.htm
“… The area is known as the “Gore Box” for Vice President Al Gore’s initiative to declassify Arctic military data for scientific use.”

Econ,
None of the above. He is a ty;ical politician lying his ass off to get elected.

Just like almost all of the others like him.

Horst
I am angry at Obama for not telling Pastor Wright that he was out of line, long ago.

I would be a hypocrite, therefore, not to do likewise, with you.

Racism is ignorant and counter productive.

We should encourage everyone to rise to their own full potential.

It hurts all of us if anyone is “held back” based on race or ethnic reasons.

I believe that liberal welfare programs destroy the family, and that causes a great deal of poverty in this country.

I also believe that poverty pimps such as Jackson, Sharpton, Farakhan and — sadly, Obama, help perpetuate this Black poverty as a way to gain and keep political power.

However, I surely do NOT believe that any race is smarter, dumber, more honest, more crooked or more deserving than any other.

Your racist comments are actually hurting the cause of rational debate.

I have decided that I will vote for someone who is dishonest, amoral and lacks any moral core what so ever. Who will lie to me and say only what I want to hear. Never say anything that is based on reality or facts on the ground. That will tell me as the chunks of blue bounce of my head. That the sky is NOT falling and as I stand soaked to the skin that the sun is shining and it is not raining. Of course I will, I am the average American voter!

“Therefore, I believe that Barrack Hussein Obama is too much of a COWARD to be the Commander in Chief of the United States!”

Well, Barack, I guess that is a “no” vote from Paulecon – big surprise there.

“We can only hope that Obama follows in the footsteps of other Anti american Socialist lovers like JFK, and his idiot brother, or the whore-monger so called Rev King.”

I guess I am hoping the secret service will show up knocking on the Wessell’s door soon. I doubt they will be bringing candy and flowers.

He made a peculiar factual error about Wichita and Kansas family connections in the speech .

His grandmother Margaret Dunham worked in a Boeing factory in Wichita, Kansas rather than Fort Leavenworth. His mother Ann Dunham was born in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, when his grandfather Stanley Dunham was stationed there during WWII

It’s an odd mistake for somebody who built his career on researching his family history. His white grandmother, who raised him in Hawaii, is still living but not talking. His black STEP grandmother Sarah is the one who gets the press.

Perhaps the first step in bringing peace to the races is getting the facts right.
– Roger (formerly of Leavenworth, Kansas)

Roger
Well, Obama also said that 10,000 people were killed in the Greensburg tornado.

Anyone can make a mistake, but, when it comes to Kansas, Obama can not seem to get it Wright — Whoops, I mean, Obama can’t seem to get it RIGHT!

“His mother Ann Dunham was born in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, when his grandfather Stanley Dunham was stationed there during WWII.”

In the interest of facts, wasn’t Obama’s mother christened Stanley Ann?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/us/politics/14obama.html?scp=3&sq=obama%2C+mother&st=nyt

JR
“WE do not need your help”

Who the hell is “we” ???

Speak for yourself.

You are NOT speaking for Obama.

You are not even speaking in SUPPORT of Obama.

Even if you were, I would say what ever I wanted to say.

By the way, many Black authors and journalists have asked that the word “black” be capitalized, when speaking of the Black race.

You are being petty and willfully ignorant.

I have given you several links, in the past, in support of the fact that Black writers WANT the word to be capitalized, in that context. Those same Black writers think that the same should apply to the word “white” in reference to a White person, and especially in a comparitive sentence, where both White and Black, in capitalized format would be the preffered style

Disagree if you want.

I don’t care.

But, I take my lead from people who know what they are talking about.

(Never from you, in other words.)

If you want to endorse Obama that will be ok with me paulie!

Nobody buys that nic either James.

And anybody that capitalizes adjectives is a moron.

Boxlock, you ever read The Forgotten Man?

I posted links to it a few times in the last year. Hard working American taxpayers are The Forgotten Men (and Women now). This was written in the 1800’s when the woman’s place was considered (wrongly) to be in the home.

http://www.blupete.com/Literature/Essays/Best/SumnerForgotten.htm

This is just tooo rich!!! Rowlett now would portend to be aable to tell us more qbout Obama’s Family tree than Obama has sasid!! Amazing how Rowlett seems to claim to know more about Obama’s family than Obama

Logic Max… Logic… Is Rowlett a part of the Obama Family??? THINK, Max…

Oh and “Bentley”

“Well, Clinton certainly worked with Republicans when she voted for the war, JR. ”

No she voted for authorization of the use of military force.

The blame for the Iraq war and occupation belongs solely to george bush.

Please compare Senator Clinton’s and Senator Obama’s recent comments on the Iraq occupation. Senator Clinton is for ending it. Obama will give it some thought.

Don’t go Boxlock, I like your posts!

But don’t argue with the Libs about The Forgotten Man. Those who read and understand are silent. Those who read and don’t understand make stupid arguments like Chas. Most Libs can’t read this without self-destructing, or they can’t read it period.

(Words are tightly spaced, but it’s just 2 pages.)

I think the grown up reference was to draw a direct contrast to the present bush childish type presentation.

Raise your hand if you’ve NEVER taken exception to something your priest/pastor/minister has said from the pulpit.

I’m sorry, let me rephrase that: Cast the first stone if you’ve never taken exception to something your priest/pastor/minister has said from the pulpit.

I have spent too much time in church not to know that “the churched” have plenty of disagreements between and among themselves over – anything, everything. I have seen some congregants swoon while others shifted about in total discomfort at sermons and homilies. For anyone to sit at a keyboard, now, and insist that anyone else agreeing to be in the Body of Christ with all it parts, the unseemly included, is agreeing to brainlessly agree with everything that goes on with that Body is either a liar, a total ignoramus, or a blind follower to his own detriment.

I never heard a sermon preached at my Church or any other Church that I’ve attended that was unacceptable. Of course, they tend to stick to the Word of God, the plan of Salvation and extend the invitation to all.

There have been occasion where I and other objected to certain Church business conducted, but that’s entirely different from what happens behind the pulpit.

You’ve must attended strange churches Mod. Nothing unusual goes on at my church – Just worship, fellowship and the message of Christ.

Does your Church baptize babies, Regular??

I think it’s amusing how pathetic the media is. When the Republicans were having their “values debate” the people sang a song about how much God hated America but there wasn’t a peep. Now there’s the uproar about Obama’s pastor when just the prior week they were criticizing Obama for being a Muslim.

On the other hand there’s McCain and his spiritual adviser. McCain’s spiritual adviser, who McCain sought out an endorsement, advocates the overthrow of America in order to establish a theocracy and desires America to wage a genocide against Muslims.

Yet Obama’s pastor, who isn’t part of Obama’s campaign, made a speech that Obama didn’t hear and that’s something the media cares about.

Yellow journalism strikes again. It’s the same sort of crap that the media espoused claiming John Kerry was a traitor to his country and Purple Hearts are the same as a band aid.

Southern Baptist, the Conservative side. :)

Not the separatists that split a few years back.

My Uncle was an ordained Southern Baptist Minister for 60 years.

Come from a long line of Baptists, all the back to the Pennypack Church of Pennsylvania and Wales.

should read all the back…

blood sugar down to 60 – need a snack. :D bbl

OK, Regular, we now know that your Church doesnt baptize babies… SOO what if a Pastor came in to the Church, and at the end of a service, announced that he intended to baptize the babies that were there???

You’re right on that Mod… :-|

Right Mod. It was the reich wing that praised God for the 9-11 attacks and said how much we deserved it. Ever since the right has been begging for another attack in order to blame it on the Democrats. To the reich-wing having Americans die is considered patriotic. I think they take the “dying for your country” thing a bit too far.

Max, thanks. I opened the link and look at ‘The Forgotten Men’. I am fading fast here so I bookmarked it and will read tomorrow when fresh.
Thanks,

They naysayers and haters have been looking for an excuse not to vote for Barack Obama. They have tried the “secret Muslim” approach, but that has been proven false. They tried the “inexperienced” approach, but Obama has judgment and wisdom beyond mere experience. They tried the “it’s not his turn” approach, but we have seen how that has worked out before.

Now they can latch onto this – “guilt” by association.

They just needed an excuse.

Well, now you have your excuse – feel good about yourself – the rest of us will go on and try to repair the damage that has been done to our country.

But you all can feel good about yourselves, you have your excuse.

#
Mod
Posted March 18, 2008 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

“Stuff happens…”

So, Regular, it doesn’t matter that the Body lost some of its parts: a hand or eye or heart?
———————
The Baptists I know and am familiar with don’t use terms like that. We have Church homes, local associations and of course the National Conventions. The only symbolism in regard to body parts is usually used when the Lord’s Supper is given (communion.)

The split btw for those interested was those more Evangelical Churches who wanted the Baptists to get more involved politically from the pulpit.

When the majority of the Churches, like the one I am said no, we think politics should be kept out of the Church and from behind the pulpit, some Churches wanting to be politically active split. The Texas Association as I understand it, bit the bullet and stayed with the SBC for the most part.

The Baptist Churches I belong to keep political jargon and political out of the conversation and out of the Church buildings. It’s the Lord’s house, not the Presidents, Governor’s or some Congressman’s house. We prefer to keep it that way. :)

hope that made sense, blood sugar slowly crawling back to normal. :D

I have to say, honestly, Regular, that I’ve never before heard of being a member of the Body of Christ referred to as “political jargon” before. That certainly provides a great deal of insight regarding your faith and values. Thank you for sharing.

Chas
You are wrong.
The Vikings captured Irish and others as well, but the “Slavic” nations were the peole who ended up, most often, providing the humans for the Vikings to trade as slaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_slave_trade

http://www.viking.no/e/travels/etrade.htm

Yes, I know Chas, it’s just the Churches I’ve attended use more vernacular terms. Less flourishes and more appeal to the congregation. :)
—————–
Mod,

Don’t think I called the Body of Christ – political jargon.

I just stated that political jargon of any kind is kept outside of the Church. When in Church, we do Church stuff, celebration of Christ and God’s Word, all that stuff. :D

ECON — Slavery in NO WAY began with the Vikings…. Are you familiar with the Roman Empire??? The Egyptian Empire??? WHERE do you get this stuff??? Go back and actually READ what I posted this time??? Please??? I dont want to make you look silly at this hour of the night!!

I think the youth are going to make a bigger difference in this fall’s election than most people realize. Their effect will be greatest if Obama is the Democratic Party candidate. And they seem ahead of older generations in acceptance of different races. This is also the group that is throwing the pollsters into a tizzy — cell phones are all they have.

I have to admit most youth I am around are my grandsons and their friends and they are, of course, quite superior. ;-)

Herre ya go Regular… Here is what Mod said, what you quoted, and your response…

It did appear that you all have not heard of using terms such as “The Body of Christ” — Again, I reference Paul’s short treatise in I Corinthians 12…. Thanks!! :-)

Ummm Econ??? NO…. some poster named Roger Rowlett brought it up, and I responded to it…

“Bentley” I don’t know who you are or who you usually post as.

But I do have some observations about Obama and his supporters.

MOST of them are….comfortable. They are not hurting. SO they are ok with compromise and working with the right.

Well there are an awful lot of folks who are not comfortable. And Obama has already shown he is prepared to throw people under the bus.

Now Bentley you or Capn or any of the Obama supporters need to start answsering.

Just what are you prepared to negotiate away to the right? Who is and is not expendable so you can get you cotton candydate?

I know Chas, we refer to the Body of Christ and the Church in Sunday School lessons and put the Letters to the Corinthians in perspective of what was being stated. There is no Catholic or Episcopalian type of delivery in the Baptist Churches I attended. We study, we pray and listen to sermons, do charitable work, conduct missions, visit the ill and infirmed and etc.

That’s enough to keep us busy without trying to parse what words should be used or not, that is, obeying the Commandments of Christ.

Chas
Stop it ok?
I know that the creation of a “straw man argument” after YOU say something false, is your usual tactic.

I don’t have the patience for it tonight.

I never said that that Vikings were the FIRST to practice slavery. Never said that at all. However, Pastor Wright likes to brainwash the Blacks in Church that the Romans practiced Slavery against Blacks, leaving out the fact that Moslems practiced slavery against Blacks and Whites, and leaving out the fact that Vikings (and others) have enslaved Slavic nations and others.

Chas
Yes, and the Rowlett guy said that he had trouble with the Leavenworth connection, now you seem to agree with him, actually.
You need to READ before you post chas.

Well, there it is Mod, you were expecting a specific outcome and you got what you were searching for. :)

I just gave the position of the Church I attend and what happened in the split sans details (because I don’t know all the details.)

Sorry, I can’t change the facts of progression of what happened in the Denomination I belong to. Not sure what you wanted to hear from me, evidently you didn’t get what you wanted.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask, the conclusions you draw are you own of course.

Isn’t this the same guy that called for the firing of Imus over his racist statement! Was that because he was WHITE?? Here his pastor is calling US the United States of KK”A”?? And, here is a pastor that doesn’t say God Bless America but rather God “D” America? Obama can say he didn’t hear these comments when he was there – I would like to see those pictures of the Presidential Candidate SLEEPING in the PEW because he had to be!!! Makes you wonder what he has heard since he has been a senator – IS THIS WHAT WE WANT FOR A PRESIDENT???
Terry
______________________________

Terry, you obviously didn’t like Obama before this Pastor incedent unveiled. If you don’t like somebody you’ll find whatever fodder necessary to support your opinion. I think this whole matter over his pastor is ludicrous. Yes I don’t like the fact that his pastor has suppressed hatred for White America, and that he himself is in denial about it, but that is his pastor not Obama. I can go to a bar every night and shoot some pool, it dosen’t mean I’m an alcoholic.

well of course you don’t disagree, your baptists are the hardline right of the right. Fits you to a tee regular.

I’ll bet if someone told you that god was going to raise you into the air you’d believe it.

Oh…wait.

“I’ll bet if someone told you that god was going to raise you into the air you’d believe it.

Oh…wait.”

*snort*

Obama made a mistake regarding the number of deaths in Greenburg – a slip of the tongue – and almost immediately corrected it.

If you are jumping on that as a reason NOT to vote for Obama, then you probably wouldn’t have voted for him anyway.

Some folks just have to find an excuse………….

“You are wrong.
As has been pointed out before:
Pastor Wright WAS a member of the Obama campaign!”

So sayeth the poorly read Paul. Wright isn’t a member of Obama’s campaign as I said. How can you say I’m wrong when you admit he isn’t part of his campaign? Sometimes it would help if you think before you post.

On the other hand the pro-genocide Parsley is still on McCain’s staff as is the anti-Catholic Hagee. I guess religious hatred is so commonplace in the Republican party that nobody bothers pointing it out anymore. Republicans raised heck about Romney being Mormon but Democrats had no problem putting the Mormon Harry Reid into the Senate leadership position.

The Republican party is just full of anti-Christian bigots. Kinda makes me look like a lightweight.

You know what’s funny?

What does Horst call somebody he really hates?

A Nazi?

“The Vikings raided the “Slavic” countries of Eastern Europe, to capture “Slaves”. Many of those very White slaves were sold, sadly, to Persian and Arab slave traders.

In fact, the Moslem impact on slavery, throughout the ages, has never really been explained to our Black community.” [Econ101]
=================================

Ummm… Econ…. You ever watch “Roots”???

Remember who the slave traders were who SOLD Kunte Kinte and his people to the westerners??? They were Moslem Arabs… or Sarazans… North Africa was FIRST Christian… (Coptic Church) THEN, it was over run by the Moslem hoarde…. You know, when they burned the Alexandria Library??? And captured all the people, and made them Moslems, or else killed them??? Remember???

And you say here that the Black Community here in the USA doesnt know the role of the Moslems in the Slave Trade??? How dumb do you think the Black community is in America??

And I wont even POST the epithets that were used by Blacks to describe the Slve Trade activities of the “Free Men”!!! But, you better believe the Black community knows about it….

I dont want to argue with you about it…

Actually, Econ, I would just like to see you be genuine in what you are posting about what you would LIKE to see in Obama’s speech!!

I guess it wasnt enough for you that he stated that what Rev. Wright said was WRONG… and DIVISIVE…. I guess that wasnt good enough??? Or did you miss that part of the speech??

Baptist Press

http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=16718

March 18, 2008 [accessed online]

“Christian discipleship encompasses political engagement, Moore says”

Posted on Sep 19, 2003 | by David Roach
LOUISVILLE, Ky. (BP)–When most Christians think about evangelical political engagement, the first images that come to mind are organizations that assemble a potpourri of people to address a specific issue like abortion, homosexuality or taxes.

However, true Christian political engagement extends much deeper than merely speaking to one or two issues, said Russell Moore, assistant professor of Christian theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky. Biblical teachings on the Kingdom of God include a mandate for Christians to transform every aspect of culture — including politics, he said in a lecture titled, “Christ and the Public Square,” delivered Aug. 27 at the Louisville, Ky., campus.

Moore serves as executive director of the Carl F.H. Henry Institute for Evangelical Engagement, a think-tank devoted to equipping churches and church leaders to engage the culture from a biblical worldview perspective.

___________________

“When we think about how we’re to engage politically, one of the first things that we need to be reminded of is that the New Testament and the Old Testament are inherently political,” Moore said. “… The question is how then do we relate New Testament Christianity to a pluralistic, democratic society in which we live?”

____________________

Clinton and McCain – more of the same…………

It’s time for a new direction.

Chas
Rowlett says that Obama’s relative was NOT in Leavenworth.
You say that Obama’s relative was NOT in Leavenworth.
Obama says his relative WAS in Leavenworth.

NO Chas, it is you that needs to read before you post.

WHERE does Obama say his relative was in Leavenworth, Econ??? I sure dont see that anywhere in Rowlett’s post…. Can you find it, or invent it, or something??

Doug
Please READ:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23634881/

How is it that Wright can LEAVE a campaign that YOU say he was never part of, in the first place?

Oh thanks Chas, I forgot about Kennedy. But he’s dead now and worms are eating his holier than thou corpse.

I wonder which “agent of intolerance” he’ll cozy up to next? Maybe he’ll give another speech at the openly racist Bob Jones University. McCain always did love a BJ.

Capn
Jim Crow was a DEMOCRAT invention.

Regular, SBC has a number of Seminaries… Ft. Worth, Louisville, Wake Forest, among the biggest… I cant remember where the others are off hand… I am sure there is a complete listing at http://www.sbc.org

Chas
Context, man, context.

We are talking about Obama’s church, here, and Obama’s crazy pastor.

Obama’s pastor is on record talking about the “White” or “Whitey”?? Romans, the Italians who had Black slaves.

Obama’s Church gave an award to Farahkan, the racist, anti semite Moslem.

Obama’s pastor does NOT teach his flock that the Moslem faith was deep into slavery.

Take a look Obama supporters.

We see here the folks you think you can work with.

Chas
Obama should give a catogorical list of what Obama thinks is “wrong” — because, at this point, Obama MIGHT believe that the government “invented AIDS” for instance, and he could get a pass on that at some future date.

“Hey, I meant that I don’t believe the government is importing illegal drugs, on purpose, but I DO believe that Pastor Wright is OK on that AIDS thing” — he could say, huh?

What, exactly, is it that Obama does or does NOT believe?

Sorry, untill he goes down the list, one by one, NONE OF US KNOWS WHAT OBAMA BELIEVES!

“Regular, SBC has a number of Seminaries … ”

But, Chas, mysteriously enough, the Fort Worth SBC seminary has absolutely no affilitation with the SBC or the SBC seminary in Kentucky that holds firmly to the idea that the Old and New Testiments are “inherently political.” Because, if the Fort Worth seminary did, that would suggest that Sunday services where the lessons of those great testaments are preached by graduates of the Fort Worth seminary would be – well, “inherently political.”

Paul,
Time Magazine gave Hitler, Stalin and Bush “Man of the Year” awards. Does this make Time Magazine fascist?

Perhaps if you didn’t know Farrakhan received his award for his charity work, not because of his racist views. But I wouldn’t expect you to be honest given your past ethical problems.

And Europeans did have slaves. How does pointing out historical fact make one crazy? Paul, try thinking before you post.

I dont know Doug… I THOUGHT Southwestern Baptist Seminary was SBC… But, not being a Baptist, I could be wrong!! :-)

JR
I will assume you are speaking metaphorically.

You? “Bust them in the teeth” LOL

You are all blow JR.

Otherwise, you would be dead. The world does not like sand box bullies like you.

I guess I could whine and take what you just posted as a threat.

But I know you are a coward and I have nothing to fear.

We smash them into submission “Mod”

And the time has never been more right.

JR — The Republicans certainly have their share of Radical Republicans… And then, we Democrat leaning folks have our Jerry Brown’s, and our Mario Cuomo’s, etc. etc. And our Dennis Kucinich’s and Barney Frank’s, too!!

I think on some things, agreement can be reached… Here lately, it just seems like we cant find much agreement between the parties…

“McCain thinks … ” McCain just wants power. We’ve done that for eight years. It doesn’t work.

“smash” Uh-huh. Care to elaborate?

“Is that the same Paul who threw children under the wheels of cars during an abortion protest?”

The same.

And charges were brought.

Oops sorry, the award was from Trumpet Magazine which is run by Wright’s daughters. I guess I shouldn’t have accepted the neo-con lies at face value about the award having a connection to Obama or his church.

JR
I did not “boast” — I made the factual statment that I turned some gay-bashers into the police.

Knowing you, from what you post here, how you turned the hose on a Republican politician, after previously voting for Reagan and writing “Fritz and Tits call it quits” on the WSU blackboard, after you then voted for Dukakis, but then marched as a “prolifer” yelling “babykiller” at pregnant women, and after you called for killing Mexicans by placing land mines on the border, and how you called for the abolition of the State of Israel and the legalization of Prostituion — well I think, perhaps, that given your constant anti-social behavior, no matter what “flavor of the month” cause you are on at the time, I think you MIGHT have been a gay basher?

Hell, you have shown NO respect towards any group, on a consistent basis.

I did say MIGHT, JR.

However, there is no doubt that you are a liar and a very bitter, screwed up person.

You know full well that situation I mentioned was completely honorable, on my part.

I doubt that you whould have had the guts to do anything, in such a situation.

I let those hateful people have it, verbally anyway, but that was a risk on my part.

Then, I went to the police.

JR
You lying piece of Trash.
The entire Blog knows that I served on the Wichita Traffic Commission for several years.
I was elected unanimously as PRESIDENT of the Wichita Traffic Commission, by Democrats and Republicans alike, who served on that board.

Why in the world would they do that, If I had, ever in my life, put ANYONE in danger?

Doug
The PUBLISHER of Trumpet Magazine?

Obama’s CHURCH!

And Obama’s daughters are EMPLOYED by Trumpet Magazine!

Paul, before the election did you advertise your association with known terrorists? I’m sure if people don’t know you they’ll find you a lot more likable.

Uh

I Think you have your posters confused there econ.

A result of drink?

I know nothing of your political career. I just don’t like you.

Mod
I was involved in a civil suit long ago, there were never any criminal charges.
I won my case, in several different courts.
I was never charged with a crime at all.
Dr. George Tiller’s attorney even said so, in a motion to the court.
The hateful liars say I was “charged” with leading kids into the street to lay down in front of cars in front of Tillers clinic.
In fact, the children in question wrote a letter explaining that I told them to get OUT of the street!

However, Doug and JR are hateful liars who can not win an argument based on facts or logic, so they always go for lies and personal attacks.

I see.

So what if Wright’s daughters publish the magazine? It isn’t the forum for racism and hatred that you dream it is. Maybe something was mixed in there between an article about trumpet players and a story on an AIDS clinic in Chicago.

But it’s a bunch of Black folk not expressing the same dimwitted religious view that you have so they must be evil. Your level of bigotry knows no bounds.

Doug
Dont play stupid, I know you are not stupid, you are just another hateful liar.

I made national news, in my fight with George Tiller.

Every politician in town knew my name.

Mayor Bob Knight appointed me to the Traffic Commisson, before I had won my case in court.

My fellow Commissioners elected me President of the Traffic Commission, AFTER I won my case in court.

Every member of the media knew my history.

They ALL had more class than you, Doug, and the all had more class than JR.

Nobody in the media has brought it up since.

I served 4 years as Chief Deputy Sedgwick County Clerk and even longer than that on the Wichita Traffic Commission.

Nobody in the media believed your hateful lies.

Nobody ever brought it up.

Besides, I won. I BEAT the lawsuit.

You’ve got your nose where it does not belong paul.

And I HAVE offered suggestions as to where you could place it.

Probably none of them as inventive as you have explored yourself….

Econ101,

Your family knows you are a good man. Your friends know you are a good man. Those you work with know you are a good man. I know you are a good guy.

Why on Earth do you even care what JR and Doug think?

You play into their little game of hate and lies when you even dignify them with a response.

If they post a lie about you, just email the editors and ask for it to be removed.

Uh oh!

We have him monologuing!

DO go on paulie.

What was the nature of Judge Kelly’s misconduct, Paul?

So Mod, since you appear to claim expertise on Southern Baptists, just how many Southern Baptist Worship Services have you attended and heard? :)

As I said before, you seem to want to draw conclusions based on your assumptions and force others to agree with those assumptions by forcing the content of your proposal with fallacy.

Since I’ve given you eyewitness report of what goes on in my Church and you seem to deny that report from me because of some Internet Website – just what is your source of authority for your conclusions?

Or do you have any? :)

Thanks Nathan.

I have to take one daughter to the Dentist tomorrow.

Then, I pick up grand daughter from Rainbows United. I take care of her for almost 3 weeks.

Oldest Daugher, only 25, is in the Phillipines on business.

I have to get some rest.

And, you are absolutely correct.

I need to ignore this trash.

Clearly, I have not done my homework on Paul.

I’ll be correcting that.

Just so the record is straight Nathan.

I renounce any respect I had for you AND your Dad.

Okay Mod, you’re play games now. Tried to engage you in civil discussion.

You have the same pattern that WSClark does, repeating the same question over and over and you get the answer you want to hear that is exactly your opinion.

Any relation to Clark Mod? :)

Or do you normally just post ‘bait’ questions and worm out questions posed to you.

Anyway, tired – heading to bed.

Next time you want something honestly answered Mod, accept the honest answers given to you instead of playing games.

I see, Paul. Thanks.

And Doug, you perhaps ARE an idiot?

Do you realize that a campaign treasurer, or party treasurer, must receive all legal notices and complaints on behalf of the candidate or party committee, even if an employee, or the candidate makes a mistake?

You are a very petty and dishonest man, or you are stupid. I can not decide.

and, this time, good night.

My kids and grand daughter need me more than any of you.

We disagree on candidate Doug.

But what you have on paulie?

More more!

I want his scalp.

Was filing the report late a mistake or oversight?

Good Night Econ101.

Sleep well knowing that you are a better man than some could ever hope to be.

And spoil your grand daughter, that is your job of course :)

“You have the same pattern that WSClark does”

Ah, you are just upset because I kick your sorry ass every day on this Blog, McCreepy.

Creepy loser boy.

“You have the same pattern that WSClark does” Apparently, that involves the ability to get back to the original point.

You know, if Regular had just anwered the question I asked in the first place, he could have avoided being exposed for all that twisted, dishonest “we aren’t political at my church” stuff he decided to lie about.

I don’t get it.

I thought it was one of the greatest speeches on this subject I have ever heard. While he made it clear that he does not agree with his pastor’s views on some things, he also made it clear why his pastor and many older blacks have such views. None of us has been treated like they have.

Well, this is a very busy week…

Chas you make me laugh. You got time to blog all day, call everyone names, put downs, and post hate but find the time to bless us all at days end.

Please get off your high horse and stop defiling real preachers of Christ. Your pretending to be holier during each Christian holiday are making real Christians puke.

Get a job doing something besides lighting the candles.

Econ–

Thanks for attacking Horst’s racist hate speech. (I didn’t see that earlier.)

Horst–

Now that The Eagle pulled your posts, what are you going to call them . . . uh, Nazis?

Sucks to be you, as always.

“This was one of the most profound speeches i have ever heard. Yeah it would have been politically correct for Obama to ditch his reverend, but it is apparent to me that he’s not going to ditch someone so important to him for his own gain.”

“That speaks VOLUMES to the ethics of Obama, he is one heck of a good man. I am thoroughly impressed.”

Exactly.

I could go on, but I think that’s enough . . .

A Black minister that, uh, well, does NOT support Obama:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU

“A Black minister that, uh, well, does NOT support Obama:”

Wow! A BLACK minister that does NOT support Obama! Holy shit!

Next, we’ll dig up an old white man that does NOT support McBush and a woman that does NOT support Hillary.

Wow!

Not good.

Granted the source is Sean Hannity. But he reports that Obama’s campaign is stonewalling turning over Obama’s past schedule.

There is an effort on to place him in attendance when his Pastor was making his particularly controversial statements.

If he resists and is ultimately shown in attendance…

JR, Hannity is a shallow attack dog in the cog of the “right wing wurlitzer”. Still trying to go with the politics of guilt by association.

He won’t grow up (because he is not paid to grow up), but you can.

Y’know, “ksagnostic?” –

I’d temporarily forgotten that all the anti-Obama people commenting on this forum had probably not heard or read or listened to the speech.

Of course they haven’t!

So I appreciate you posting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU&eurl=http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisownwords

“This is the speech, in its entirity.”

“Watch it, listen to it, then try to see how well the shallow attacks by people like Hannity or Max or Hank etc. hold up.”

Had the Reverend Mr. Wright had preached on Jesus saying “Suffer the little children to come unto me,” some right wingnut would have attacked Wright for wanting children to “suffer.” And another right wingnut would have attacked Wright for advocating pedophilia. And then they’d attack everyone in the congregation (or not, as it turned out with the Wright sermon at hand) with advocating making “the children come.”

It’s an awkward place now.

He’s getting a slight break from the story because of bush’s speech and the Iraq anniversary.

He can still try just not talking about this. That’s what he should have done to begin with.

“I did hear and also read the speech.

“Making the speech was a mistake. It only kept the story going.

“Now just because I am a Clinton supporter does not mean I an enjoying this.

“But it is better this is totally threshed out one way or the other NOW.

“Imagine if this had come out in October.

“As it is, just this one thing has moved the Clinton/Obama poll several points.”

1) The polling after the speech has not really been done yet.

2) No, the speech was not a mistake. Pretending he could wait it out would have been a mistake.

Remember John Kerry?

BTW, Jr.

Obama has not claimed not to be present whenever Wright made controversial comments he disagreed with.

Being in a UU church, I can also tell you for certain that I have been in attendance when the minister has made controversial comments with which I have strongly disagreed.

The controversy is whether Obama was present during one particular set of comments that some loser from NewMax claims Obama was there for, even though evidence indicates that Obama gave a speech at Miami the same day. When one also works in the time change (Miama on Eastern, Chicago on Central), the idea that Obama was there and yet made it to his speech in Miami strains credulity.

But the NewsMax guy will stubbornly continue to make his claim (even now, you may have noticed, he has been saying well it may have been some other day in August or maybe even July).

What worries me is what’s going to happen if Clinton successfully finesses the convention to get the nomination, even though she doesn’t have the elected delegates and the popular vote.

Now, that would be a major disaster.

As I said before Capn, I know it’s a challenge for you Radical Left to gather up any type of attention to span across two or more words, but here it is again:

“There are no politics discussed at my Church”

I frankly don’t care what Falwell discussed. As I discussed earlier, the Evangelical types split away because they wanted to be political from the pulpit.

The Church I belong to do not participate in politics from the pulpit nor have discussions of politics in the Church.

You and your church weren’t mentioned in this discussion. Everything isn’t about you, Regular.

You see, I’m not interested in what someone said about you. Right now, a discussion was being held and it didn’t happen to be about you. But you can talk about you if that’s what you want. Free speech and all that.

ksagnostic posted March 19, 2008 at 2:33 pm

“[Hannity] won’t grow up (because he is not paid to grow up), but you can.”

It’d more accurate to say that Hannity is paid to not grow up. Faux wants him like he is.

The fact that this thread is still getting posts speaks to the power of Obama’s speech.

Yesterday the speech Obama gave made me proud of him but I still firmly hoped Hillary Clinton would be the Democratic Party nominee.

Today, Hillary Clinton gave a speech that turned me off so badly and made me so angry my support is wavering.

I can’t handle someone who continues the bush legacy of following the rules she wants to follow when she chooses to follow them.

Steven Davis,

Your WaPo link at 4:04 pm has a good analysis of Obama’s speech, plus some additional statements from Obama.

CapnAmerica
Posted March 19, 2008 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

Regular saying that the Southern Baptist Church he attends makes no political references.

Now that’s some major denial

————————————
Pay
Close
Attention
CapnAmerica

I said the Church I attend doesn’t discuss politics from the pulpit or talk about politics in general.

I know your pot induced stupor keeps you from thinking properly, but do try and focus.

See that’s the thing Rage.

We have what mrcontroversy has experienced with the Obama campaign as an example. And we have this latest example.

Any political strategist with any sense at all would have had Obama quietly distance himself from this church a long time ago.

Remember folks, the majority of the people, even the voting people in America are moved by sound bites. I wish it were otherwise. But that is just the reality.

And the right and the media are digging now.

Yes, again, it was a good gymnastic speech. And I am beginning to think Obama thinks he can orate himself out of or around anything.

But sometimes? It’s better to say nothing.

Ya know? I don’t understand the reluctance of these two states to fix the situation with new primaries.

I mean their goal in jumping up their primary date was to matter more right? Well here we are! Too, there would surely be a massive return on the financial investment.

It has to get sorted out some kind of way.

Tweety Chris Matthews had an interesting idea.

Both candidates agree on new primaries and winner take all. That is, whoever ends up with less popular votes agrees in advance to bow out.

Ever met a good con man that was not, also, a great public speaker?

Ever met an honest man that had trouble putting his thoughts into words?

Capn,

If you enjoy providing JM with multiple orgasms, please do mention his name in your posts.

For some poor souls, being victimized by the vast lib conspiracy is the closest they get to emotional elation.

I suggest instead starving these flaming and flame baiting trolls. But you should do what you think is the correct thing to do. Carry on.

Stating in advance, JM, I will not respond to anything you say, just trying to help a friend here not enable you so much. Such is bad for you and worse for the enabler.

Well, I wonder: Bill Clinton seemed to come out of left field, but he actually had Washington connections, and several.

Jimmy Carter came out of left field, as did Howard Dean. Joe Trippi said that Dean didn’t even except to become the front runner, and it caught him off-guard.

I don’t think he expected to go this far, but, unlike Dean, was ready and willing, though this was originally than he’d planned (according to the Chicago Tribune, he expected to win re-election to the Senate, then run for president.

I guess enough people kept bugging him that he decided to do it now!

Whatever–kant tipe! :) Let’s hope the Obama mafia (I’m playing off of Jimmy’s Georgia mafia is up to the task of official Washington. He does have some big guns, but one still wonders.

“JR does have a point. “God damn America” will probably been run alongside Obama/Osama etc, in 30-second spots sponsored by the Iraq War Vets for Truth or whatnot.”

So, he will have to respond. The speech he gave was very effective (and, to quote NPR, it has gone “viral” on the internet). He will probably have to address it again and again, and remind people that Wright’s words were not his. If Kerry had brought out the same guys who stood next to him at the Democratic Convention (you know, the guys who were actually on the boat with him and who backed up the official accounts), he could have derailed much of the Swift Boat Liars’ charges. But, the Swift Boaters took advantage of some very real negative feelings that many Viet Nam Veterans had towards Kerry, and Kerry the patrician thought he could be aloof. I don’t see that happening with Obama. Again, the right wing on this could be their own worst enemy when they bring this stuff up over and over, and Obama points out over and over, not MY words. It is when the right overplays their hand and goes over the top with nasty that they get slapped down. That nastiness is a real potential third rail (that being said, they have gone a long way towards avoiding that third rail by nominating McCain instead of some slick huckster who got primary pandering right wing religion like Mitt Romney).

“I don’t think he expected to go this far, but, unlike Dean, was ready and willing, though this was originally than he’d planned (according to the Chicago Tribune, he expected to win re-election to the Senate, then run for president.

“I guess enough people kept bugging him that he decided to do it now!”

Ironically, a number of pundits said that there would be no better opportunity for him to run than this election. I am not sure what they were thinking myself, but he is still running a very strong candidacy, and I think he could make an excellent president (I also think Hillary Clinton could make an excellent president).

Agreed, Linda,
The lying Paulster, is the greatest case for change that the Dem party could make. LOL :)

at

“Yes, saying ‘God Damn America’ is not nearly as bad as saying ‘nappy headed ho’ in reference to the Rutgers Women’s Basketball team.

“Damning the whole country, doesn’t compare to the importance of a few girls who bounce basketballs.”

Cerebral inertia. Remarkable.