Barack Obama made a couple of good points in slapping down suggestions by Hillary and Bill Clinton that he would make a good vice presidential choice. “I don’t know how somebody who’s in second place is offering the vice presidency to somebody who’s in first place,†he said. That is audacious — and condescending. But he also noted how Hillary’s main line of argument of late has been that Obama isn’t ready to be commander in chief. Yet Bill has said in the past that the No. 1 priority in picking a vice president is that the person be ready on day one to be commander in chief, in case something happens to the president. So, Obama asked: “If I’m not ready, how is it you think I would be such a great vice president?â€
159 Comments
Gooooooo Oh OBAMA!!!!
Confront that Hillary slithering slimeball.
Call a spade a spade. It is such a shame that Bill has to stoop to such low levels to regain power.
That’s true
Picking Dick Cheney as VP is consistent with George W. Bush’s bad judgment.
Point and set to Obama.
And picking 100 year war McCain as the Republican candidate in consistent with the Republican’s bad judgement.
Water finds its own level.
Good for him - why should he even consider?
Frankly, it’s HER who needs to be asking HIM to be considered for the #2 spot. That will never happen, of course; the loser in this race needs to go back to the Senate and polish up their (rather thin) credentials. And “party leaders” have no leverage or authority to force such a ticket; those days are long gone.
When was the last time a convention didn’t choose it’s nominee on the first ballot? This is indeed gonna be fun to watch!
And picking 100 year war McCain as the Republican candidate is consistent with the Republican’s bad judgement.
Water finds its own level.
What arrogance! I hope Hillary chooses a better VP for her running mate. Why would she want him anyhow?
Hmm it seems Barack’s ego is bigger than his rhetoric about working together?
The price of Crude oil is rising because Oil Traders are nervous about Bush/Cheney making trouble in Pakistan, starting a civil war so he can intervene and start something next door with Iran.
Pakistan has nuclear weapons and Oil Traders are thinking things could get messy.
There is no “al Qaeda”, as its just slogan to replace the worn-out “terrorism.”
It’s something that Bush can keep killing the “number 2 man.”
Osama Obama delivered a Yo Mama No Mo’ Drama Get back on Yo’ Pajama Llama
…
“Hmm it seems Barack’s ego is bigger than his rhetoric about working together?”
I would sugget that it is Hillary, being in second place in both delegate count an vote count, holding out the Obama in 2nd spot, that has her ego writing a check bigger than her butt can deliver
This deal make sense to offer if you are thinking you are going to lose.
Hillary offers Obama a sure thing place on the democratic ticket in exchange for him bowing out of the race for the President.
Who knows? In the spirit of “working together” Obama just might have called it a deal.
What does Hillary have to lose? She is desperate and acting like it.
And the cons continue to show us THEIR preference as to the Democratic nominee…
That just KEEPS telling me all I need to know.
rfl
Posted March 11, 2008 at 12:11 pm | Permalink
This deal make sense to offer if you are thinking you are going to lose…..
What does Hillary have to lose? She is desperate and acting like it.
Another sign of desperations
Clinton campaign plays the race card:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/clinton-backer.html
As one of the MILLIONS of Americans who would LOVE to see this dream ticket, I’m ticked that he’d act so snootily against it.
I realize Hillary is in second place, but she had the right to say if she wins she’d be very open to it. Probably not now, and the more Obama talks, the less I like him.
yeah, you are right, Hillary has the right to say whatever she wants. And Obama, and everyone else,has the right to point out how desperate it makes her look.
Wow LJ, if a republican has said this, there would be an outcry like never heard:
“Clinton campaign finance committee member, former vice presidential candidate, and former Rep. Geraldine Ferraro, D-NY, told the Daily Breeze of Torrance, Ca., that, “If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept.” ABCnews
“And picking 100 year war McCain…”
That’s not what he said. Why do you people lie so much?
This is what he said.
Last month, at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire, a crowd member asked McCain about a Bush statement that troops could stay in Iraq for 50 years.
“Maybe 100,” McCain replied. “As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it’s fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where al Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day.”
Barack is leading, with an unsurmountable lead, and Hillary wants to offer HIM the Veep slot?
Not a chance in Hell.
Pmom - I don’t think he was being snooty, it was VERY condescending of her to say that she may pick him for her VP, when she is behind and will more than likely stay that way. I think in his mind, it was like a slap in the face. He’s worked very hard to come from behind and is now in the lead, and she makes a comment like that. Would she be willing to take the VP spot when she loses?
Hillary is behind in ninth by a run, has two outs, none on and two strikes on her, and NOW she wants to call the game and give the other team a shot at second place?
Damned nice of her.
IMHO, Barak’s best play right now would be to ignore Hillary and begin his campaign against McCain. Make it look like he doesn’t even care what she says or does. That the real business of the day is McCain.
I could give a rat’s butt who takes it, I won’t vote for any of the three. Just think that would be a good /strategery/ for Barak.
Don’t know where else to put this. Open thread is locked down. (Thnx chas. :-( )
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7289815.stm
The world’s largest central banks have launched their latest co-ordinated action to calm jittery credit markets.
The US Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and central banks in the UK, Canada and Switzerland will inject billions of dollars into money markets.
The injection of cash is aimed at easing the global credit crunch by providing cheap funds and making banks more willing to borrow and lend money.
Stock markets worldwide and the dollar rallied after the announcement.
“In the near term, the Fed and global central banks have provided the thing everyone needed, and that’s cash,” said Martin Blum, head of emerging markets research at UniCredit in Vienna.
New York’s Dow Jones average was up 1.5%, while London’s FTSE 100 ended Tuesday more than 1% higher.
The dollar rose sharply against the yen and rebounded from a record low against the euro.
I’m with you political mama. The more Obama talks the less I like him.
And WS? YOU are demonstrating his and your problem. REPUBLICANS are the “other team”.
Well, people,
It’s going to get a lot uglier in the next few weeks. Hillary will not quit. Obama can’t win until he has enough super delegate votes at the convention.
The extreme left of the democrat party is trying to take control away from the left of the party. They still haven’t figured out how to run a primary in two states.
By the time the democrat convention is over with the party will be so split that the election should be a cake walk for the Grand Old Party!
Sorry to be repetitive, but
Clinton campaign plays the race card:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/clinton-backer.html
Where is the outrage? The fact is that there were a large numbers of posters on this blog that screamed in protest about Limbaugh’s statement about a quarterback. Let’s see, a news commentator saying something stupid about a quarterback gains national condemnation. Now, Hillary’s campaign finance commmittee member, a previous Democratic party choice for Vice Presisent, say the same thing about a US Senator, the leading Democratic candidate for the US Presidency, and silence? Oh I get it, the Democrats are just plain embarrassed.
Sol, venturing out on a limb, the action by the Fed in conjunction with the other two central banks will have a short, transitive effect on the various stock markets, and will contribute mightily (IMO) to a stronger inflationary pressure with longer lasting effects. This action will also (again, IMO) cause the world market price of oil to increase, as the dollar continues to weaken. Given that the U.S. government will be seeking to borrow additional funds at about the time the “repos” (as I understand these loans) expire, about one-half the $200 million will be taken out of the economy, thereby enhancing the continuing liquidity problems.
Vaughn,
Isn’t that just peachy????
Yes, Sol, it is. Then stir in the expected 50 to 75 basis points cut in the Federal Funds Rate, stir well, and….
LJ - I understand your frustration, since I posted this in the morning, and not a single pro-war Republican rose up to deny it.
http://www.kansas.com/news/story/337617.html
“Al-Qaida in Iraq didn’t emerge until 2004, a year after the U.S.-led invasion.”
Finally, here it is in print. We did not go into Iraq to fight terrorist, and our presence there attracted AL-Qaida to Iraq.
However, I will bite on your post. I just groaned. I still have a Mondale/Ferraro pin, and a book written by Ferraro. I can’t believe she was stupid enough to say what she did, especially after all the b.s. she received not just from the Republicans, but from the papers because she was a woman.
I don’t know that Vaughn’s comment was preachy, but instead isn’t it an accurate reflection that responding to either inflation or the weakening dollar makes the problem you don’t respond to worse.
The above is why stagflation is a good thing to avoid.
Sorry, Sol, misread your word there. Indeed, things are quite peachy.
…collapse the economy. All while the commander in chief reaps the benefits on a war against a technique (that we trained them to use.) http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm
including the first President Bush and his secretary of state, James Baker; John Major; one-time World Bank treasurer Afsaneh Masheyekhi and several south-east Asian powerbrokers - and using their contacts and influence to promote the group. Among the companies Carlyle owns are those which make equipment, vehicles and munitions for the US military, and its celebrity employees have long served an ingenious dual purpose, helping encourage investments from the very wealthy while also smoothing the path for Carlyle’s defence firms.
But since the start of the “war on terrorism”, the firm - unofficially valued at $3.5bn - has taken on an added significance. Carlyle has become the thread which indirectly links American military policy in Afghanistan to the personal financial fortunes of its celebrity employees, not least the current president’s father. And, until earlier this month, Carlyle provided another curious link to the Afghan crisis: among the firm’s multi-million-dollar investors were members of the family of Osama bin Laden.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/31/september11.usa4
Bush fiddles while the world burns…
FWIW, had the Fed held firm, the recession that is occurring now (my own opinion) or that which seems almost inevitable (opinion of some learned folks) might well have been over, or quickly subsiding. Yes, the banks and others holding the mortgage collateralized securities might well have taken a beating, short term, but I believe the risk of, e.g., stagflation would have been minimized. Given the actions of the Fed, which really help the banks, no?, it seems to me that the risks of stagflation have increased substantially.
Geraldine Ferraro’s comments were dumb.
The Democratic candidates for president better get their houses in order. Obama’s point is well taken (it is somewhat insulting to offer a candidate who is leading the race a VP slot, even if it is closely contested). However, like I’ve said, these candidates are going to need to cool it somewhat because one is going to need the other for the main event (particularly if the nominee is Hillary Clinton). As for the talk back on that story, what a bunch of over the top right wing noobs.
And brings to question our need of the fed. Do we need to bail out banks? I don’t mean to sound harsh, but the borrowers knew, our should have known, what they were getting into. If they lose their houses, that is the price paid for getting what you can’t afford.
The banks knew the risks when they made or bought the loans. They took a risk, they should pay the price. We don’t need the fed or the pres. bailing these people out.
Nor do we need this ‘tax rebate’. Pissing gasoline onto the fire. Get a clue. Be responsible.
My own thoughts is that as it comes down to the economic situation we are in is that the Republicans made a substantial error in tightening the bankruptcy laws. Everyone who was paying attention knew that the lenders were targeting marginal customers, gambling that they would eventually pay off their loans, but not early so as to get maximum interest. The lenders were reinforced for gambling. ‘
Yes, both lenders and borrowers share blame, but the fact of the matter is that lenders broker in hopes and dreams, and if a lender tells a borrower that s/he is qualified, the borrower is going to want to believe it.
My own thoughts is that this recession was inevitable no matter what the Fed did. Bad loans plus high fuel prices is a lethal combination. Remember the 1970’s.
ksagnostic, I agree that the recession was, in your words, “inevitable”. My concern is that the recent Fed action has chosen to ride the inflation tiger to combat the recession tiger, instead of letting the recession play out as a part of the normal cycle, which, I fear, brings the prospect of a period of stagflation into sharp focus; and, if the U.S. is lucky enough to dodge the stagflation bullet, an extended period of inflation is in the cards, so to speak, which will take some time and tightening to wring out of the economy. I’d suggest that this is why whoever is elected as the next President will be facing a high probability of only one term.
Since the Open is closed, putting this here.
Adm. Fallon, head of Centcom, has resigned, citing inaccurate news reports of disagreement between him and the administration over Iran. Resignation accepted “with regrets” by SecDef Gates.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/03/11/fallon.resigns/index.html
Sorry, Admiral, while the reports (especially the one in Esquire) might have contained inaccuracies, the number of them that have been swirling for a while suggest that there might have been a bit of fire hiding in the smoke, IMHO.
“I don’t mean to sound harsh, but the borrowers knew, our should have known, what they were getting into. If they lose their houses, that is the price paid for getting what you can’t afford.
The banks knew the risks when they made or bought the loans. They took a risk, they should pay the price. We don’t need the fed or the pres. bailing these people out.
Nor do we need this ‘tax rebate’. Pissing gasoline onto the fire. Get a clue. Be responsible.”
“Republicans made a substantial error in tightening the bankruptcy laws”
I have to agree on both counts. Let those who were blind enought for such loans suffer, mortgage holders as well as those who took out such atrocious loans. In addition, the bankruptcy law, though perhaps needed some overhaul, should never have devolved into what it is today. Or, they should have made another type, one that was driven by medical costs or outsources jobs.
VT - That is scary. I had read somewhere that he was vehemently opposed to going into Iran, and there was conjecture that he would be fired or resigning soon so the administration could get on with it while they still have time. I thought that was a bit paranoid, but then here we are. Bush still has too much time in office, very scary.
(CNN) — A so-called “dream ticket” scenario - the idea that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama could join forces this fall — may have gripped the imaginations of Democrats nationwide - but you can list House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as a skeptic.
“I think that ticket either way is impossible,” Pelosi told a New England Cable News reporter Tuesday, pointing to comments from Clinton and her campaign that implied Republican John McCain would make a better commander-in-chief than Obama.
“I think that the Clinton administration has fairly ruled that out by proclaiming that Senator McCain would be a better commander-in-Chief than Obama,” she said.
She spoke bluntly about her view that a joint ticket was not in the cards, she said, because “I wanted to be sure I didn’t leave any ambiguity.”
“LJ - I understand your frustration, since I posted this in the morning, and not a single pro-war Republican rose up to deny it.
http://www.kansas.com/news/story/337617.html
“Al-Qaida in Iraq didn’t emerge until 2004, a year after the U.S.-led invasion.””
-TDT
Nobody can deny you TDT.
But you have pointed out IMO why the decision to invade Iraq was wrong in 2003 and it would be wrong to withdraw right now!
Two wrongs do not make things right in Iraq. Al Qaeda is in Iraq right now. So why not stay and fight the perpetrators of 9-11 who we wanted to fight all along?
Get out now.
LJ, by staying in Iraq, and I grant the reasons why staying should occur given how the U.S. and its allies mucked it up, the inevitable is delayed, IMO.
Neither are qualified:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/03/cic.html
The naked truth behind Hillary Clinton’s commander in chief test
Monday Howard Wolfson, the supreme spokesman for Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, issued a pronouncement by telephone conference call: “We do not believe,” he said, “that Sen. Obama has passed that key commander in chief test.”
This point was apparently made to disqualify Barack Obama from the No. 2 vice president job that he says he would never want and Hillary Clinton herself brought up last week and has talked about several times along with her husband but now they’ve decided the Illinois senator hasn’t passed the commander in chief test that he’s never taken and no one knows what it is anyway.
Which got us to thinking. What do you suppose a commander in chief test looks like? What do you have to know how to do to become commander in chief? And how, by the way, do we know whether Sen. Clinton has passed or even taken the commander in chief test?
Her campaign has not released Clinton’s commander in chief test, which….
fits because she hasn’t released her recent years’ income taxes either or the vast volume of documents from her first lady days that she says constitute so many of those 35 years of valuable experience that qualify her to be commander in chief.
So the entire world is left to guess what exactly is on Hillary Clinton’s commander in chief test. Which may be what her campaign wants. Because, in point of fact, if you think about it, Obama and John McCain are actually a tad bit closer to being the commander in chief since Obama leads in popular votes, states and Democratic delegates and McCain has already locked up the Republican nomination, unless Ron Paul really turns it on here in the next few weeks.
“Her campaign has not released Clinton’s commander in chief test, which… fits because she hasn’t released her recent years’ income taxes either or the vast volume of documents from her first lady days that she says constitute so many of those 35 years of valuable experience that qualify her to be commander in chief.”
Are any of those things required in order to be a candidate for President??
V P test??
“But he also noted how Hillary’s main line of argument of late has been that Obama isn’t ready to be commander in chief. Yet Bill has said in the past that the No. 1 priority in picking a vice president is that the person be ready on day one to be commander in chief, in case something happens to the president.”
“So why not stay and fight the perpetrators of 9-11 who we wanted to fight all along?”
Because…. Staying in Iraq is just a ploy by BushCo to use as a springboard for attacking Iran.
IF Bush can start a ground offensive with Iran, then maybe he can also manufacture his long desired “national emergency” and suspend government…
The latter could well be the brain child of Dick Cheney… who knows??
“Al-Qaida in Iraq didn’t emerge until 2004, a year after the U.S.-led invasion.”
THIS item should have been on the Eagle Front Page… in BIG HEADLINE FONTS!!! Those who have been against the WAR from before the stupid invasion ever happened, can now feel a good level of justification for our beliefs then, AND now… With this knowledge, supported by our own Government, we should now be contacting every member of Congress demanding an immediate beginning of troop withdrawal, and immediate de-funding of the War effort!!
This Proves that Bush Lied/People Died!!
Black helicopters! Black helicopters!
NOOOO UFO’s Dont you all know anything??
However, IF they are black helicopters, they must be from the Pentagon, since that is where this story broke from…. It didnt come from media of either side!! And its about time somebody at the Pentagon started telling the truth!!
Must be dinner time… the trolls are starting to wander around… LOL
Vaughn, I think the high price of fuel guarantees a high inflation rate to go with this recession. Maybe the Fed aggravated the by cutting interest rates, but I suspect overall this mess was inevitable. I remember when the mortage crisis first started to get real traction in the markets, and market people were yelling at Bernacke to “DO SOMETHING!”, then griping that what he did is too little too late. I don’t feel that I have a good read on Bernacke yet. I am afraid he may be to responsive to what other people say/think (i.e., too passive, then too active) but we will see.
But I think the inflation tiger was already on the hunt, and I really don’t know if holding firm would have been able to cage this tiger.
Of course, I could be wrong.
Obama prevails over Clinton in Mississippi, also.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080312/pl_nm/usa_politics_dc_6
WTG Barack!!
From what I could see only about 83,000 Republicans even bothered to vote for the three candidates on the Mississippi ballot, while Obama and Clinton garnered around 250,000 votes (with less than 70% reporting).
I understand having your party’s nominee already decided would take away some of the motivation but these numbers have been true in every state. Seems there are more from the Democratic Party highly motivated, very excited and enthusiastic this year!
Think the Republicans may be able to get more out to vote come November??
Oh come ON!
Mississippi? Like that state would EVER go blue.
Obama continues to win contests now that he cannot win again in November.
What is worse? 90% of black voters are voting for him.
90%.
Now it may not be pc to say? But the fact is, this means that there are large numbers of black voters voting for Obama simply BECAUSE he is black.
Racism is just as ugly in reverse.
I wish Obama had not said the pro Republican things he did. Truly I do. It would be SO much easier to jump on this mindless train wreck. But he did say them and whether he knows it or not we are in a political civil war.
Mercy! This Blog is DEAD today! Guess it might have something to do with the shut down threads.
J R posted March 11, 2008 at 8:42 pm
“Obama continues to win contests now that he cannot win again in November.”
It wont be Obama vs Clinton again in November.
On this Cosmos, I agree. Obama vs. McCain
Tell me Obama can win Mississippi cosmos.]
Or Kansas.
Or Wyoming.
Or any of the other red states he has won against Senator Clinton in.
Not now. In November when it counts.
You disappoint me cosmos. Never would have figured you for joining the crowd bleating “chaaa aaange”
Mississippi? Like that state would EVER go blue.
Unlikely, yes, but Kerry won 40% there in 2004, and there was this little thing called Katrina. . .
Stranger things have happened.
Shut down threads? Crap, do I even want to know??? Sigh. . .
J R, I can’t believe people are blindly following a guy who basically only says he will make change, and at least in public doesn’t offer what that change IS. But people are following him, and I think he will be the nominee because people hate Clinton. Now on my side of the fence, I am disgusted with my choice.
Chaaa-aaange
Ho-ooope.
Kumba aaaaah
Obama has stated very clearly what his positions are on almost any topic that has come up.
What I want to know is why there seem to be some who can only flame and gripe nearly word for word what Rush O’Hannity Medved Savage Levin says they are supposed to say. Now that baffles hell out of me.
He is a hell of a speaker, I just can’t believe people are buying the speak.
So we should buy the crap that Hillary is putting out?
Try actually turning down the sound of Reich Wing Talk Radio, and l i s t e n to what Obama has to say. It should be clear to you what he says. He doesnt stutter aimlessly. He makes perfect sense.
Thirty five years of experience - doing what - playing second fiddle to Bill?
She has LESS elected experience than Barack.
End of that lie……
Clinton- Corrupt, self serving, & delusional
Obama- No experience, not enough experience, lacking experience
McCain- double talker, angry, I SAID ANGRY G-DAMIT!
I think that sums up America’s choices.
Yeah “dots” I really liked when he lauded Reagan and called the Republicans the party of ideas.
Then he REALLY sold me when he said parents who can’t afford health insurance for their kids are irresponsible.
“Then he REALLY sold me when he said parents who can’t afford health insurance for their kids are irresponsible.”
Copy and paste, J R, or just stop making up shit.
And that biz about “I have my helpers hold onto anything important until right before I need it. Because if they give it to me too early I might lose it.”
(paraphrasing)
Oh yeah I want this guy having the nuclear football!
You know, if Obama had ever even opened the possibility of asking Hillary, I’m sure that she would have made a comment on it.
I think it is RIDICULOUS that Obama is acting so offended. IT was a speculation, and if she were leading she said flat out.
If Obama doesn’t offer the VP to Hillary, I won’t vote for him.
That’s where I’m at political mama. Gotta have a REAL grown up DEMOCRAT on the ticket.
What seems to be the problem here? The last President we elected who had any foreign policy experience was Bush I… Before him, was Nixon. And before that, Ike! We dont seem to have a history of electing Presidents with foreign policy experience. Again, what seems to be the problem here?
We SAY we dont want some insider to be elected. But we dont have much choice. Bush II tried that line, but that was a hard one to swallow, since Daddy Bush served EIGHT years as VP, Served as director of the CIA, and four years as President!
If we say we dont want somebody from “inside the beltway,” then we will gripe because of a lack of experience. If we get somebody with a life time of D.C. experience, we say they are corrupt.
Sounds like the whole country is a little schizoid! LOL :-0
Hillary claims thirty five years of experience.
Name something she did thirty five years ago.
Twenty five years ago.
Fifteen years ago.
Five years ago.
Don’t vote for Obama - that just makes you a DINO.
J R,
Look at the states that voted for Dems in 2000 and 2004 — Obama has won about twice as many as Clinton.
And Obama has won about twice as many traditionally Republic states.
Let me state at the outset that I’m (still) no fan of Hillary, and no amount of anti-Obama sentiment will, by itself, drive me kicking and screaming into her arms. Since I live in McCain’s home state, voting for Ralph Nader (aka Satan, to some) is still on the table. I’ve written a check to nobody this season.
Those who live in swing states (or even potential swing states) should vote for the Dem nominee of course . :)
I agree with JR about the kids’ mandate. Plenty of good parents make do with what they have, and feeding and clothing your children comes first. Food vs. medicine is a deplorable situation, but all too common in Bush’s America. And insurance isn’t medicine–it’s, well, insurance.
Of course, one can turn HIllary’s argument right around–she has a mandate on insuring children as well. So I call that argument a wash.
But, ya know, there’s a more subtle (and more important) inconsistency to his argument against mandates. He points out (quite rightly) that a universal mandate could produce a scenario where people who can’t afford the coverage will end up fined and without coverage.
But wait: let’s examine this. Why would a mandate produce this nightmare scenario? The answer: cost . Indeed, he has stated–over and over–that the reason people don’t get insurance is because they can’t afford it. Right?
So: Isn’t that an implicit admission that the very–and only real–reason he doesn’t have mandates (except on parents) is cost ? That is, the cost of his program?
Of course, my cynical side hears both these politicians offering “coverage as good as Congress” and I’m going “yeah, right!” So maybe we’re just arguing over whether the free Mercedes is red or blue. :(
Damn spam blocking program.
“Yeah ‘dots’ I really liked when he lauded Reagan and called the Republicans the party of ideas.”
Bullsh*t.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/peas_in_a_pod.html
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/clinton-obama_slugfest.html
“Then he REALLY sold me when he said parents who can’t afford health insurance for their kids are irresponsible.”
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/cleveland_clinkers.html
The argument that Barack Obama is a stealth Republican is absurd. So is the argument that the Republicans somehow “want” to face Barack Obama in the general election. What the Republicans DO want is for the firing squad circle jerk (mixed mataphor intentional) that you, JR, and you, Political Mama, and you, Mr. Clark, all seem to be willing participants in, to continue.
McCain, who is not McBush and is not a loser, will laugh all the way to the bank if this garbage keeps up.
Correct if I am wrong “ksag”.
I think you said you were a Republican ticked off with your party? Is that right?
Reposted………….
WSClark
Posted March 11, 2008 at 9:26 pm | Permalink
“Then he REALLY sold me when he said parents who can’t afford health insurance for their kids are irresponsible.”
Copy and paste, J R, or just stop making up shit.
So where is the quote - the speech - the facts?
“McCain, who is not McBush and is not a loser, will laugh all the way to the bank if this garbage keeps up.”
Put another way. I am not saying that blogging will cause the damage, but taking this contest so deeply personal that you are unwilling to consider that your candidate may not win the primary is to be a self mutilating hot head. The worst this primary gets, the more people who are going to take that attitude.
You want a Democrat in the White House, you better be prepared to support either nominee.
In all fairness, as I recall, Mr. Clark has said that he will support either nominee. JR and Political Mama, however, have not made the same indication. Unfortunately, I know a few Obama supporters who seem to have similar tendancies.
Spot on ksagnostic
“So is the argument that the Republicans somehow “want” to face Barack Obama in the general election. What the Republicans DO want is for the firing squad circle jerk (mixed mataphor intentional) that you, JR, and you, Political Mama, and you, Mr. Clark, all seem to be willing participants in, to continue.”
As a Republican I agree with that statement, and that is what is going on. I am enjoying it, however I am most dissatisfied with McCain.
It was in a debate WS as I have told you before.
(Paraphrasing)
“Under my plan, a parent who did not purchase health care for their children would be irresponsible.”
J R posted March 11, 2008 at 9:29 pm
“Oh yeah I want this guy having the nuclear football!”
The other candidate wanted him to be 2nd in line.
Don’t scroll up to read the title of this thread.
“Correct if I am wrong ‘ksag’.”
Obviously you did not even bother to click the links before you replied, did you? Fact Check is a NON PARTISAN site that performs an important public service that most of the media seems to think is too much trouble, actually assessing the truthfulness of what candidates say. You will notice that they are every bit as hard on Obama as they are on Clinton. READ it. The claim you echoed about Obama praising Reagan and Republicans as the party of ideas is bullsh*t. It’s not reality, it’s what you have decided must be true about Obama.
Read…the damn…links. BTW, notice what both Clintons have said about Reagan in one of the links.
“I think you said you were a Republican ticked off with your party? Is that right?”
Way oversimplified, but there is truth to that. So what?
Hey cosmos?
WS?
How’s about you tell me how it is I sit down and work with…
Hank
or Nathan
Or Heckler?
See? That is what Obama says we need to do.
Well…
I don’t like those folks. I can’t imagine agreeing with them on anything.
And there is Obama bleating and you believing that somehow, that can happen.
Well? I’m here wanting to know how much more I have to give up? How much more do I have to suffer so the rich can get richer?
What will Barack put on the table to deal?
Ya don’t bury the hatchet when the other guy is holding it.
I have never thought Obama gave great praises to Reagan; but rather stated a fact of American politics. That Reagan was a kind of watershed event.
As for the health insurance quote, I read that as saying, Hey, I have a plan that is so good, if you dont buy it, you are irresponsible! In other words, he is offering a GREAT plan!
Thats the way I read it. Perhaps Obama and his writers need to do a bit more coordinating as to how he phrases his ideas, so that some well meaning folks wont go around misquoting and misunderstanding him.
“It was in a debate WS as I have told you before.”
So copy and paste the quote or STFU.
Easy, right?
BTW KsAgn… name here is Square Peg. “Dots” works, but would not want to be confused with a “dot” com thing, ya know.
Answer a question with a question ksag?
Yup I am converted from the Republican party.
Almost 25 years ago.
Now answer MY question. Is your goal here maintenance on the GOP?
Because the thing is? I don’t have any interest that direction. They are the party of money and pretense to principles. I fine NOTHING redeeming in them.
What has Hillary done with her alleged “thirty five years of experience?”
J R,
Excuse the obvious point, but working with someone does not mean agreeing with them.
And why don’t you fact-check your false attacks on Obama?
It’s telling of you that you want me to STFU there WS.
You’re older. You’re comfortable. You are not hurting.
Whoever wins, you’ll be ok.
Me I’m not good at leaving my friends behind to reach out to my enemies and hope they are kind.
I’ve lived in the America that the sellout to capitalism has made.
Obama talks “hope”
What is that? “Please Mr. Businessman! Please treat your workers fair!”
Obama talks “change”
What is that? The right has done their damage and now we ask how we can help them do more?
This is your fatal flaw, JR.
You project.
Not all Republicans are Nathan, or Hank, or Heckler.
Furthermore, it’s a balance. If you are able to offer collaboration while holding strong, that is actually a strategy that works against your enemies. You want to know the reason why the Democrats made gains in 2006? It is because of people like Nathan, or Hank, or Heckler, or especially on this blog, people like a Max (who is almost certainly not Regular, you make yourself look silly every time you make that charge) pushed too hard. Hard core coalition conservatism is a losing proposition this election year. However, the Republicans have a “maverick” candidate who some of these coalition conservatives make it clear that they don’t like. That’s like an endorsement to some swing voters, and McCain has time now to move to the middle, and despite what some of you think he can do this with some credibility (although his voting record is really pretty conservative).
The “right wing wurlitzer” (as ksfarmgrrl likes to call it) can be very effective, and I would agree to a point that Obama is bigger unknown in a general election. However, he has also been a very smart candidate, and I really like his thoughtful approach to issues not only on policy but on waging a campaign. Trying the same crap they tried with success on a John Kerry is a real third rail with a candidate like Obama (and it may be every bit as big a third rail with Clinton as well-one of the things I do think some Democrats do not understand is that yes, the right wing will come out to vote against her probably stronger than they will Obama, but they will also be very loud in an over the top way in their attacks against her-it won’t take too many “Shrillaries” and “Hitlaries” to drive swing voters in her direction).
That being said, the Democrats lost some of their best leadership in Congress in recent years (the contrast between a Daschle and a Reid is huge, and Pelosi’s comments today about the whole Vice President mess were beyond stupid). Again, this mutual blood letting can seriously damage the Democratic chances at the White House in 2008.
“You’re older. You’re comfortable. You are not hurting.”
I have a seven year old granddaughter - I see the future in her brown eyes - I see the future of all children in her Native American eyes.
This isn’t about me - it’s about those deep brown eyes.
It amazes me.
Some of the blogs best fighters.
And they want to lay down.
And answer the question ksag. What is your politics?
“Not all Republicans are Nathan, or Hank, or Heckler.”
Oh yes they are. Only difference is? Some of them are less informed.
You can’t fix stupid. And heaven knows I have tried.
“Now answer MY question. Is your goal here maintenance on the GOP?”
Your question is incoherent. Therefore, I am going to have to guess that you are asking if I want to maintain the GOP. My answer is, I really don’t give a rat’s ass. I prefer candidates who have a demonstrated ability to listen, understand policy, and have the ability to take the long view. I have actually tended to agree more with Demoratic candidates that Republican candidates, but I think temperment is often more important. What made Bush Lite the godawful president he is is not that he was conservative, it was because he was intellectually lazy, incurious, impulsive, and acted for short term political advantage. And he didn’t let reality interfere with any decision he made once he had his mind made up. Reagan was similar in this regard, but I think he was actually more intelligent (but we are still paying the price for his reflexive deregulation of some industries).
In this election, my interest tends to be balance. I am socially liberal, and a mix economically. Both the left and the right have their irrational elements, but in the US (as opposed to other countries) the irrational right has a good deal more influence than the irrational left (except briefly in the sixties, and even then the influence of sixties radicals has been greatly, greatly exaggerated).
The Republicans have packed the federal judiciary with truly activist, partisan conservative idealogues, IMVSO. For that reason alone, I want a Democratic president nominating justices for probably the next eight years. If this election were occuring after eight years of Al Gore (who would have been the BEST candidate for this particular election, IMVSO), I might actually be inclined to support a McCain (NEVER a Huckabee).
Keep on keepin’ on WS.
And teach that grandkid to say “Thank you for shopping at Wal Mart”.
I cannot believe how some of you are surrendering when the time is now to attack and take back.
“You can’t fix stupid. And heaven knows I have tried.”
I’m going to bed. You really don’t want to know what I am thinking right now.
“Keep on keepin’ on WS.”
Still waiting on that copy and paste, Junior.
“I am socially liberal, and a mix economically.”
Well I read that as “I have beliefs, but they are for sale.”
JR — which is more important? To get the Republicans out of the White House, OR, to get one particular Democrat IN to the White House?
Superdelegates, MI, FL, and lies will get Hillary her nomination.
As soon as Hillary steals the nomination, Obama will grin and bear it as he becomes her running mate.
It be one big happy family then.
JR - We need to first get IN the White House, THEN we can attack what’s broken, and fix it. We cant fix anything during the Primary season.
“Well I read that as ‘I have beliefs, but they are for sale.’”
You’re right JR.
You can’t fix stupid.
“As soon as Hillary steals the nomination, Obama will grin and bear it as he becomes her running mate.”
Nope, Barack has scruples.
ksag I really do not care what you are thinking now.
And “WS” called me “junior”
Huh, who else does that?
And… just what do we know about WS? Anyone ever meet him?
Fix your own party “ksagnostic”.
Get out of mine.
“Barack has scruples”
Uh huh WS. That is why he says he will work with the enemy.
And the sad thing is, JR probably honestly believes he is doing well.
I am a Democrat now, but I will comment on any damn party I please.
Obama’s ’scruples’ will be crushed by his need for power.
Stay in the Senate as Senator or take the VP slot?
Hmmmmm……tough choice.
Obama’s acting all tough today, but he ain’t messed with anything like Clinton before. If he’s smart, he’ll figure out he is better off joining that Clinton machine instead of fighting against it. He’ll get a nice wad of cash by joining HRC.
But, I hope your are right Clark. I’d love to see a nasty battle continue through the Dem convention and maybe Obama runs as an Independent.
Kennedy/Johnson just loved each other, didn’t they?
J R,
Your falsehoods, tactics, and flawed logic remind me of the people that you do not want anything to do with.
Well I read that as “I have beliefs, but they are for sale.”
And… just what do we know about WS? Anyone ever meet him?
Uhm, JR, could you dial it back just a bit? Please? I’m asking nicely. If I have to follow up with a private email, I. . .might not be so nice. Just some friendly advice.
Peace.
“Uh huh WS. That is why he says he will work with the enemy.”
The enemy - as in fellow Americans.
“Obama’s acting all tough today, but he ain’t messed with anything like Clinton before.”
Clinton is as tough as a loaf of stale bread - Obama is the real thing - Hillary could only hope to be as tough as Barack.
Hillary should consider it a compliment that ANYONE could or would even think of her as a potential Veep candidate.
I’m comfortable with my friends.
Mostly.
But I am mindful of Sun Tzu and the confusion as to identity here.
Put simply? I trust political “friends” here on some issues no more than I trust known enemies.
Recent posters to this thread included.
“And… just what do we know about WS? Anyone ever meet him?”
Not quite 56, 5′10″, 195#, father of three, grandfather to two, born in Kentucky, raised in Michigan, greying hair, white beard (goatee) fairly muscular, Manson eyes, former businessman, author, photographer, music fan and historian, life-long liberal and Democrat, animal lover, nasty son of a bitch, etc., etc., etc..
Anything else?
Something to be said for cannibalism…
Are you going to ignore what I asked you JR? I asked it real nice, too.
No Rage I am not going to dial it back.
Now I know and have met you.
But I have not met “cosmos” or “WS” or “ksagnostic”.
“WS” says:
“The enemy - as in fellow Americans.”
Well “WS” has been a far more vocal voice against the right then me. He got a meetup cancelled is my understanding. Some difficulty with Nathan?
Now he tells me to STFU?
Thanks no.
I deal in what I know.
And I don’t know any Obama supporter I trust or respect without serious reservation and questions. That would include my own brother.
“Well “WS” has been a far more vocal voice against the right then me. He got a meetup cancelled is my understanding. Some difficulty with Nathan?”
Nope, Nathan Price got the blog meet attendance severely reduced but the meet was not canceled.
I just chose not to attend because of Nathan’s threats.
“And I don’t know any Obama supporter I trust or respect without serious reservation and questions. That would include my own brother.”
I understand that your brother won’t speak to you now - wise man, I would say.
JR — I’ve been watching — I like a lot of what Obama says. I really like the Way he says it. I like a whole lot of what Hillary says. She has been around the horn, when it comes to dealing with the “vast right wing conspiracy” — And that bothers me about Obama. I dont think he knows how to fight them with their own kind of stuff. So, that concerns me. Obama talks about affordable health care for all. He talks about some specifics. But Hillary knows how to make it work.
And she isnt afraid to go toe to toe with the “sky is falling” anti-socialist spammers that do all in their power to dress her up in a bright red dress, with a hammer and sickle on it.
Basically, what I am trying to say to you is this: Once the convention is over, and done, I will have to vote for the Democratic candidate, whoever it is.
Square Peg asked you if it is more important to get the Republicans out of the White House, OR, to get one particular Democrat IN the White House. Can you answer that, please? Thanks!
And now you want to work with Nathan WS?
That is what Obama says you and I must do.
How are you going to work with someone you are afraid of?
And is it wise to work with someone you are afraid of?
Oh and it is on my part the cut off in communication with my brother.
He’s like most Obama supporters. Comfortable for now. Tired of the fight that they are not a part of… yet.
Willing to cut off a friend to work with an enemy…so he can stay comfortable.
Think on what we are doing. We are electing the next President. It is our choice.
Why compromise? Why reach out to the enemy?
JR — Is there some reason why you are ignoring me?
BTW, I dont think Obama would want to work with Nathan, or any number of others on this Blog. I do not hear him say he wants to work with radical right wingers - those who would turn us into facists, or impose a theocratic state on our country. I Do think he is talking in generalities.
i might point out, JR, that Roosevelt had to meet with Stalin as well as Churchill, in order to bring about an end to WW II in Europe. Without Stalin working with the Allies, who knows how much longer WW II in Europe might have lasted?
Chas, I think the uncomfortable subtext is in front of us.
Leave it alone, please.
Gotcha Rage.. I dont know why he wont talk to me.
sigh….
Chas I take people at their word.
Obama is long on rhetoric and short on ideas.
And he is being helped by those who I at least see as enemies.
I was more than anyone against the dynasty thing.
But I didn’t make Obama say what he said.
I didn’t make the media favor Obama over Clinton.
I KNOW what the right has on Obama. I monitor talk radio. They are only beginning to savage him. They want Hillary destroyed first.
Please trust me. Obama is not electable. And that is because he is not a known. There is so much the right is just waiting to release on him.
I DO respect those folks who hope for hope and change. But I also know reality. And I am FROM the right.
They cannot be worked with. Not without more sacrifices than too many already made.
“How are you going to work with someone you are afraid of?”
There is no one on this Earth that I am afraid of Junior, Nathan or anyone else. Period.
What a stupid comment on your part, J R.
“And I am FROM the right.”
No shit?
It shows in every post you make, every comment that you have and in all your attitudes.
No shit?
You are a FORMER right wing idiot?
And one day, you will go back to being a right wing idiot - the only question is “when?”
Probably tomorrow………………..
And I guess if we get Hillary, we will have to hear about Vince Foster’s murder; and Whitewater; and Bill’s women; and from what I hear, now they got Hillary’s “women” as well; I dont know if I can stand any more of that right wing vitriolic lying - not after what they did to Kerry in 2004.
I guess I am seeing the same thing happening to EITHER Obama or Clinton. What I dont see yet, is any plan by the DNC, to fight back against that crap!
Now they got one on the radio blaming Clinton’s for Ron Brown’s death, and JFK, Jr’s death, and of course, Vince Foster!
WS–how’s about you dial it back a tad, too?
You are equally free to ignore me, of course.
Again with the “junior” bit “WS”
Just who are you?
I think it was KSgolfnut first put that nic on me. Then hank and fleetwood. JM and his many nics does it too
Which of them are you?
No matter.
I just found out you have my email. I’ll tend to that before I go to bed.
I don’t know who or what you are or what your problem is WS. And I really do not care to sort it out.
There is a guy on the radio right now who just said that the “inner circle” has already chosen Hillary, and that she has had clandestine meetings with Bush and Cheney, and she has been told what to do when she takes over. This kind of thing will just keep going, as long as guys like Limbaugh keeps telling Republicans to cross over and vote for Hillary! Most sickening all the way around!
Check out this nut >>>>
http://www.delphiassociates.org
Rage?? Email me, if you are here. Please?
Okay.
It’s sent.
“Which of them are you?”
None of them, idiot……………….
Jeez, that is a great jump from J R, to Junior.
Who wudda thought of THAT?
And Rage, with due respect, sincerely, I only fire when fired upon.
I respect your opinion, Rage, but J R wants to fight and wants to play down and dirty. He shall reap what he sows.
Well….
I could just let it go.
But this assignment “junior”
J R to “junior”
Yeah that is a jump. I THINK KSgolfnut was the first to invent it.
And of course the dullard Hank and the moron fleetwood glommed onto it.
“WS”? What you do here in whatever politics it is you invent on a daily basis?
Put more simply, despite how I and others welcomed you back?
Why didn’t you just stay away?
“Why didn’t you just stay away?”
Ah, because I have a home and a family here in Wichita?
Who the Hell are you to tell me that I am welcome or not on this Blog, chump?
“What you do here in whatever politics it is you invent on a daily basis?”
Can you translate that into English?
Can you translate that into English?
He thinks you’re He of a Thousand Nics.
Do both of you still have my Yahoo email address?
“Do both of you still have my Yahoo email address?”
Not sure, Rage - email me at WSClark52@gmail.com
‘ppreciate it…..
And with that, I am out of here - ya’ll feel free to e-mail me with all your cards and letters……….
Nite ya’ll!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://thebivouac.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/ron-paul-on-cavuto-federal-reserves-200-billion-injection/
No open thread yet. The above is a pretty good explanation of how the Fed dumping $200 billion in the market will be devastating.
Back to this subject.
Pelosi is an idiot (when she essentially said that there was no way these two can share a ticket). Way to be a leader in your party, nitwit.
“I agree with JR about the kids’ mandate. Plenty of good parents make do with what they have, and feeding and clothing your children comes first. Food vs. medicine is a deplorable situation, but all too common in Bush’s America. And insurance isn’t medicine–it’s, well, insurance.”
It’s important to note that what Obama said was under his PLAN, it would be irresponsible for a parent not to insure their children. Presumably because the plan would help provide the means for parents to do so. To claim that he said that parents who do not insure their children now under current conditions is to greatly misrepresent what he said. That’s what happens when you are emotionally reactive and not really bothering to process what the guy said.
“Of course, one can turn HIllary’s argument right around–she has a mandate on insuring children as well. So I call that argument a wash.”
Exactly. On this issue within the health care debate, the candidates aren’t very different at all.
What I said: “To claim that he said that parents who do not insure their children now under current conditions is to greatly misrepresent what he said.”
Should be: “To claim that he said that parents who do not insure their children now under current conditions are irresponsible is to greatly misrepresent what he said.”
Or, to put it more bluntly.
Barack Obama did NOT accuse people who are currently not insuring their children of being irresponsible.
Period.
I just have to say that WSC has been posting on this blog long before JR came along. And JR, JR is short for Junior. What in the world are you bitching about?
Uh yeah
“TDT”? Let me help you keep from embarrassing yourself.
I was posting on this before “WS” was ever heard of. And “junior” was the invention of a rather lewd poster named ksgolfnut. It is commonly used on me by the posters fleetwood and Hank.
Just so you know the company “WS” puts himself in.
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