The latest take by Washington Post blogger Chris Cillizza on whether Barack Obama might pick Gov. Kathleen Sebelius to be his running mate: “If Obama wants to make a truly historic ticket, picking Sebelius might be the best way to do it. Sebelius has won two terms as governor of Kansas — not exactly a Democratic stronghold — and did well in her stint on the national stage as chair of the Democratic Governors Association. Sebelius has the same problem as (Virginia Gov. Tim) Kaine, however; it’s hard to see how she helps Obama convince voters he has the experience to handle the complicated world situation he would inherit as president.†Other Obama prospects were Bill Richardson, Tim Roemer and Jim Webb. Possible Hillary Clinton picks: Evan Bayh, John Edwards, Bill Nelson, Ted Strickland, Obama. And for John McCain: Charlie Crist, Tim Pawlenty, Mitt Romney, Mark Sanford, John Thune.
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190 Comments
“Obama plus Sebelius equals history”
Well said. If he picked Sebelius, he would be history.
It says a lot for America that a woman and a black man would even be considered for the office of president. I think we’re still a few years away from that ever happening. Outside of Kansas, the reaction is, Sebelius who? Most people who do know who she is only remember her for her dreadful Democratic response to the State of the Union.
She did a fine job of representing Kansas — Flat and gray.
Not gonna happen.
Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano seems a much better choice. There’s a legitimate argument for all three current candidates — Senators — to add a chief executive to the ticket. Napolitano is from McBush’s home state and would put that state in play with a chance to win it.
Sebelius can’t carry Kansas for the Democratic presidential election (although she might be able to but rural states in play and suck some Republic Party money into the square states). Napolitano as a running mate would be just as historic and make political sense.
But let’s think a minute about McSames vice-presidential selection:
John Sidney McCain the Third is likely to meet his Maker before 2012; it’s just actuarial logic. The guy would be older at inauguration than Reagan was when he left office. John WMD McBush can’t keep straight who our enemies are in Iraq. The economy is teetering on the bring of the Great Depression Two and he proudly admits he doesn’t know much about the economy.
McSame’s vice-presidential selection will likely assume the presidency in a couple of years, if elected.
So who’s it gonna be?
Mitt “Ken Doll” Romney is sucking up for the job. Lindsey Graham is, too. Wall Street has been advocating Giuliani. Twice-born Republic Party advocates are praying for the second-coming of Huckabee.
It’s fun to watch the Republic Party November victory dance in March. Enjoy it while you’ve got it. Ain’t gonna happen when McBush picks a veep.
“John Sidney McCain the Third is likely to meet his Maker before 2012; it’s just actuarial logic. The guy would be older at inauguration than Reagan was when he left office.”
Monkeyhawk is math-challenged. Reagan was 78 when he left office. McCain will be 72 when he is inaugurated.
Chronologically, maybe.
But Reagan spent his war on a sound stage. McPain was tortured for five years and can’t lift his arms above his shoulders. McBush is already a cancer “survivor,” and shows mental deterioration by not knowing Shi’ite from Shinola… four times in 48 hours.
The irrefutable point is McSame is old. Older than his years. And anyone with any perception of the ravages he’s experienced has to expect him to not live through a presidential term.
So his vice-presidential selection will be critical in November.
Want to address the issue, “outlander?”
“Reagan was 78 when he left office. McCain will be 72 when he is inaugurated.”
——————-
Physically he left office at the age of 78. Mentally, much sooner.
McCain is already showing signs of mental deterioration. Such will never again be hidden as well as it was with Reagan.
“Such will never again be hidden as well as it was with Reagan.”
ummm…because Bush concealed his IQ of 40?!?
You got to be crazy!!!!!!!.
Sebelius,Obama,and the gals on the view. If Hillary got around like that. Obama can you ever think of what Obama would call her. I think he is a womanizer. His wife “Michelle” that thinks Hillary can’t take care of her house watch out. Hillary has more class than that Michelle ever thought of having. We need Hillary in the white house. If Obama gets the vote,i will back the republicans. Obama does not have what it takes to run our country. Some one needs to check Obama & Michelle out. Wake up America!!!!!!!!! God Help us. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That we would even consider a man McCain’s age shows how unimportant a Republican president is. You need look no further than George Bush to see that a Republican president doesn’t call the shots. So let’s elect a dottering old fool.
Welcome to this forum, “wanda martin” –
Keep posting. Perhaps you’ll come up with something that makes sense some day.
Not today, alas.
Wanda, you state your case so well, without innuendo and with such perfect calm. Someone will surely change their opinion because of your post.
Governor Sebelius ended any chance for the national stage in politics with her absoluteley AWFUL State of the Union response.
Obama would choose a “Little Buddy” as a running mate??? Kathleen “Gilligan” Sebelius. Where or who is the “Skipper, Mary Anne {from Kansas}, Ginger, The Howles, and the Professor”? Yea Kathleens real/actual middle name is “Gilligan”. She seems to carry herself by middle name alot. Herbert West III, west.herb@yahoo.com
Monkeyhawk,you don’t make sense. Hillary,Hillary,Hillary for president. Does that make sense to you Monkeyhawk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no way you or anyone that would back that Obama would change my mind so forget it.
Yikes
I hope obama picks governor “leadership” and he picks her before the convention.
They can both go down in flames in the general that way. Of course, they both have their day jobs to go back to when they lose.
He’s not gonna pick her. Especially if he has the skills some of you think he has. Although, they do fit nicely with their mutual tolerance for homophobic bigots.
“Little buddy”
Heheheheh. Good one Herb. Proof that even a stopped clock is right at least twice a day…
Wanda, MonkeyHawk makes sense to many.
Anyone have extra exclamation points? The blog supply cabinet seems to be empty…
If mcbush is smart, he’ll pick Charlie Crist. If he panders, it’ll be Graham or Huckabee.
Is there a “usual” time running mates are announced? Or does it vary from candidate to political season to whatever? In recent times is the whole ticket usually known prior to the Parties convention?
It’s sad you guys are so critical of Sebelius’s response to the State of The Union Address, I think she did a fine job…I’m inspired by the message of moving forward and comming together to work on the catastrophic problems that out country faces instead of the same old blame game and finger pointing. Too many people don’t know how to do anything but bitch, whine, and be negative and hopeless about everything.
I would be overjoyed if he picked her as a running mate…it would be wonderful to witness such history being made in my lifetime.
I think the chances are good that Sen. Obama will invite a woman to be the VP nominee, but a Cabinent post for Sebelius seems much more likely. Though not a Governor, Sen. McKaskill from Missouri would bring more electoral college votes from a swing state than our Gov.
#
outlander
Posted March 30, 2008 at 7:06 am | Permalink
“John Sidney McCain the Third is likely to meet his Maker before 2012; it’s just actuarial logic. The guy would be older at inauguration than Reagan was when he left office.”
Monkeyhawk is math-challenged. Reagan was 78 when he left office. McCain will be 72 when he is inaugurated.
#
MonkeyHawk
Posted March 30, 2008 at 7:24 am | Permalink
Chronologically, maybe.
——————-
Chuckle… Monkeyhawk, you make me laugh. Thanks.
Doubt Obama will pick a woman for VP. Too much change on one ticket. Too risky.
Bill Richardson is the best bet for Obama’s VP. He’s hispanic, a group Obama needs help with; he’s from the southwest, an area Obama needs help with; and he’s got foreign policy gravitas. People also know his name. Obama/Richardson would be a really cool ticket.
Oh yeah, Richardson is also from the mountain west states, which helps with the Democrats’ strategy to turn the intermountain west blue. Obama and Richardson looked good on stage together in Portland. Looked like a good ticket.
Obama won’t pick Richardson. Although Richardson is very experienced there are too many racists, like Sean Hannity, whose heads will explode by having two non-100% white people running for the highest offices.
Yeah right, like those same “racists” wouldn’t also blow a gasket if Obama paired with some dame.
If their looking for “historic”, then Rev. Jesse Jackson would probably be the better choice; Wasn’t he at the MLK assassination?
Obama/Richardson could be a winning ticket.
So could Obama/Clinton, but that would be very unlikely at this point.
If Hillary were to pull out the nomination (and not just with last minute convention brokering) a Clinton/Obama ticket might well be an absolute necessity.
McCain, who knows, but I think it would be hilarious if he picked Huckabee or Romney. But, no way is he that dumb. Graham he could maybe get away with.
“outlander” responds by not responding.
John WMD McBush is old and senile and will not live ’til election day 2012.
At least that’s the way to bet.
And my earlier posts address how important McSame’s running-mate will be in this election.
“outlander,” and all the other Kons in this forum have steadfastly refused to address how weak John Sidney McCain the Third is as a candidate and run away from any discussion about who will be the vice-presidential candidate destined to enter the Oval Office before the 2012 elections. Because that’s what’s likely to happen.
Keep dancing your victory dance, Repubs. Get it out of your system. It’s March and you won’t be dancing in November.
McCain’s best pick would be the current governor of Florida. He has earned the respect of both parties with his support of environmental issues and voting integrity. However, given the Republicans have needed to steal a lot of elections lately they might not want someone ethical standing next to a member of the Keating 5.
Obama is not going to pick anyone. He don’t have the smarts. Hillary will do the picking of vice president and it will not be that Obama. So there.Obama makes me sick.
Once a week on Mondays, the conservative columnist Bill Kristol fires something off in the New York Times. Anyway, a couple weeks ago, he wrote that McCain has some obstacles in front of him (the economy, for instance), which, in Kristol’s view, means McCain needs to be ready to pull out all the stops. Kristol floated it that Clarence T could come down off the bench. He also mentioned Lieberman. Between the two, my hunch is Lieberman’s not out of the question. Don’t forget that ole Joe was aboard the good ship McCain not so very long ago when the nominee had a few problems remembering who was who in Iraq. So if McCain, at some point, decides that he can move to the center without losing the right, then it won’t surprise me if Lieberman signs up. Thomas? Nah. Conservatives won’t want to risk bringing the judge down from the bench. If you read Kristol strictly for the entertainment value as I do, then you know that part of the time he gets it that he’s speaking to a mostly liberal audience, so why not have some fun and pull people’s chains a little bit? Even still, the takeaway from the Kristol column is that Republicans have to pull out all the stops. They know they’re up against it with an unpopular president, an unpopular war, and a tanking economy.
If Obama picks Hillary, I’m voting for McCain. The more I see and hear her, the more I can’t stand her.
Obama is the smartest one running, he wouldn’t be stupid enough to ask Hillary..she’ll lie, cheat, and stop at nothing to claw her way to the top. It’s time we had someone with some integrity in the White House.
Mary, Where do you get Obama is smart. Hillary is the one that will pick the VP and she will not pick a dummy like Obama.
“Obama makes me sick.”
Sumpt’n’ tells me that Wanda is a wee bit of a racist.
Wanda,
For starters, Obama wrote a couple of books all by himself. You might say, “Oh, big deal. Anyone could do that.”
Actually, it’s tougher than you think. Take a shot at writing one sometime, and see if it’s worth a damn when you finish it. (Chances are pretty good that you won’t even get that far. A lot of people get completely lost at sea on that undertaking.)
Obama’s first book especially was written in some fairly nice prose. Most politicians need a babysitter for that activity.
WSClark, Sounds like you are the racist. THATS SOME more OF YOUR BUSNIESS. FREEDOM OF SPEECH. THAT IS WHAT AMERICA IS ABOUT. Michelle say’s this is the first time she is prowd of her country. Listen to Rev Wright’s speech. Who is a Racist. I don’t trust him or Obama or Michelle.
I am not a racist. I vote for the one who i think can do the Job and that is Hillary.
“Sounds like you are the racist.”
Really? You’re the one on the rant, but whatever. B’Ball is goin’ now.
I’ll address your idiocy later.
Halftime. Boy, I guess I should have listened to Ben and gone somewhere among people, where fun is happenin’. Watching this all alone is a bummer! Is it possible Kansas depth will have a positive affect on the 2nd half? This is hard!
The current (3/20/08) issue of “Rolling Stone” magazine has an article on both Obama (hint: it’s fawning) and Hillary Clinton (hint: it’s damning). I’ve finished the write-up on Clinton, which was written by none other than Jann Wenner himself. I’m not sure I understand her purported mistakes as Wenner addresses them.
But I think I may have a clue as to what’s gone on here: People want someone new; someone young; someone fresh and innovative. Is it necessarily fair? Perhaps not. But here’s another inkling of mine: People got burned out on Bill and his antics (i.e., not only his antics but the sophomorism of those he antic-ed with).
Bill Clinton would be on at least the periphery of Hillary’s presidency, and I suspect a whole lotta people remember a decade ago – when bad-aim Billy that stupid blue dress brought this adminstration to a standstill. Whole lotta wasted time. Whole lotta misspent energy. Whole lotta partisan bickerin’.
Whole lotta horses–t, in the end. (In case anyone’s forgotten: Bill finished out his presidency. That “impeachment” didn’t stick.) Oh, and there was something else. Bill’s pastor crony – Rev. Billy Graham finally admitting, under intense pressure from Larry King, that our president “had a definite (woman) problem.”
Do we really want or need Slick Willie in the limelight again? I suspect a lotta people are turned off. Oh, and there was that word-parsing problem of his as well. (”It depends on what the definition of ‘is’….is.”) That turned me off big-time, along with the knowledge that I’m no fool: If the woman in question had been Condoleeza Rice or Janet Reno, none of this gutbucket gamboling would have taken place.
I have nothing personal against Hillary. I admire her (and her wayward husband) for saying together, working through their issues, and raising a fine daughter. I’m just not sure I want her in the White House.
Then again, I don’t necessarily allow Jann Wenner to dictate my beliefs, either. He still writes with a neo-sixties, hippie-esque irreverence that’s not always appropriate.
Who knows what will transpire in November. Now y’all will excuse me, I’ve got some more readin’ to do: I’ve got to read the write-up on Barack – and why Wenner believes he’s the savior come again.
How do you type the sound of finally being able to breathe?
There are going to be a lot of upset people if Hillary doesn’t get the nomination. In order to avoid bitterness, and promote party unity, I think it is very likely that Sen. Obama will pick a woman other than Hillary. Then again, maybe he won’t. But it is fun speculating, instead of throwing “he’s stupid” daggers around. You don’t become editor of the Harvard Law Review because you are stupid, and incapable of analytical thought. I think Hillary is smart, and would make a good president. I just don’t think she can win against McCain. She has had high 40% negatives since last year, and they aren’t getting lower.
If the race goes on all summer, and it looks like it might, then Republicans could very well go with a moderate choice like Lieberman for the VP slot. The strategy would be to pick off even more disgruntled Dems. It’s too bad if this thing can’t get resolved somehow, sooner rather than later, but we’re probably headed to June, at least.
I was over at Talkingpointsmemo a minute ago, reading an Email that a Clinton supporter apparently sent to Marshall, in which an argument was made that Obama (Obama!) should kindly step aside and accept the VP slot.
So this is where we are. Make no mistake: McCain is watching and calculating that he can pick off a few people in the meantime. He might be old and he might be a warmonger, but the boy’s not dumb.
Yes, it’s only late March, and way too early to try to guess how this thing will unfold, but it won’t surprise me much if Senator Clinton does take this all the way to Denver.
At any rate, until the Dems get a nominee, they need some sort of apparatus in place to shine the light on McCain. Currently, he’s like a running back darting through gaping holes in the line. Too many people in the media are inclined to give him a lot of breathing room. Look at Broder’s column in today’s Eagle: long on admiration, short on analysis.
I agree totally with Songbird…most of us are sick of the politics as usual the last 20 yrs and we long for someone who is refreshing, intelligent, trustworthy, imaginative, and pocesses the abilty to think outside the box. Obama is the candidate who is capable of possibly making a positive shift in our country. He has a common sense and diplomatic style I haven’t seen in my lifetime. Hilary has too much baggage and I can’t think of anything monumental she’s accomplished during her time in the White House or the Senate. Why would she be any different as president? She has a reputation of being difficult to work with and I’ve not seen her ever display any diplomatic skills that illustrate she has what it takes to effectively deal with our allies or our enemies.
Those of you who support her, please give me specifics about why you’re convinced she’d be an effective leader of the free world…just saying Obama is stupid and she’s the only one who can do the job doesn’t cut it. I want details.
Glad to step up for that one Mary.
She isn’t Barack Obama.
And I don’t know what Obama is. I am highly suspicious of whatever or whoever is behind him.
Let us not forget, the Republicans made their god Ronald Reagan from a corrupted Democrat. I have no reason to believe that Obama is not a redux of that.
And something else needs mentioning here. Obama and his supporters seem all too eager to throw friends under the bus to work with enemies.
This MAY be because as a group, Obama supporters are generally more well off. Polls bear that out.
My perception is that Obama supporters feel that they can afford to work with the enemy. Well I see no such movement or candidate among the enemy. So I afford them the same.
Bentley posted,
“I was over at Talkingpointsmemo a minute ago, reading an Email that a Clinton supporter apparently sent to Marshall, in which an argument was made that Obama (Obama!) should kindly step aside and accept the VP slot.”
Uh-huh… LOL!
National three-day rolling average Gallup Poll for 3/29/08
Obama 52% vs Clinton 42%, MoE +/- 3
http://www.pollingreport.com/index.html
All speculation, JR. I see no reason to believe as you do. The priciples Obama has stated, I agree with. The time for the division in our country is over…if we want to move forward, we have to be united.
He throws his friends under the bus? I think his calm reaction to backlash regarding Rev Wright proved just the opposite.
“The time for the division in our country is over”
The right disagrees with you.
So do I.
So what has Hilary done to convince you she’d be a good president, JR? She never set the world on fire as first lady or as a New York senator.
J R,
Your comments on Obama’s economy speech?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSuT5zN2SPI
I said if we want to move forward we have to become united…we’ll just continue to spiral downward if we stay divided..we’ve seen evidence of that the last 8 yrs now haven’t we?
Her constituents in New York are VERY happy with her record.
Also, she knows how to fight the right. She has been their number 1 target for the last 7 years.
And she knows how to fight them instead of schmoozing them.
I can’t speak for anyone but myself. I was a gung-ho Hillary supporter, very sure she would and should be the next President of the U.S.! Very proud to say I supported her and why.
She lost me when she decided the rules she agreed to with regard to Florida and Michigan should be changed.
I have had more than I can handle of convenient rules! That seems to me to have been the M.O. of the entire bush administration.
I tried. I really tried. It wasn’t easy. But each day that Obama stayed out of the whole situation – as ALL the candidates agreed to do — the more I saw a person in Hillary who wasn’t someone I could trust.
I need to trust the President!
Since the day I knew I could no longer support Hillary and wasn’t about to support more of bush (McCain!) I have studied, I have listened and come full circle to being supportive of Obama. I was reluctant and now am convinced he is the best candidate for America.
I am proud to support Obama for the next President of the United States!
“I need to trust the President!”
As do I.
And I do not trust Barack Obama.
It think he could be very open to manipulation. That is what getting used to adoration gets you. And if he wants adiration as President, the right will have to like him.
And who knows what the price of their respect and cooperation will be?
I need to hear just ONE Hillary supporter explain how the Michigan primary should count since Obama’s name wasn’t even on the ballot and ALL of the candidates agreed to take their names off the ballot.
All of them did, except Hillary.
All of them agreed, in writing, that the results would NOT count, but NOW Hillary wants the delegation to be seated?
If Obama was behind and tried this shit, the Clintons would be screaming bloody murder.
So, just one step and and explain…..
Well WS
For starters, it is politically unwise to tell millions of voters that their vote does not count.
“Hillary wants the delegation to be seated?”
That is ONE option she has suggested. She has also suggested a revote.
A revote to which she has no idea what the outcome would be.
Why does Obama oppose that?
“For starters, it is politically unwise to tell millions of voters that their vote does not count.”
She agreed, in writing, before the fact, that the VOTES would not count.
Obama wasn’t even ON the ballot.
Why should the votes count NOW?
Of course she wants the delegates to be seated – she was the only one on the god damned BALLOT!
“outlander,” and all the other Kons in this forum have steadfastly refused to address how weak John Sidney McCain the Third is as a candidate and run away from any discussion about who will be the vice-presidential candidate destined to enter the Oval Office before the 2012 elections. Because that’s what’s likely to happen.” – Monkeyhawk
————-
How can we address how “weak” Sen McCain is when he is much more qualified than either Mrs. Clinton or Barrack Obama? And, of course, MH is just blowin’ smoke when he says that McCain is likely to die in office. Can you say “ageism”? The fact is that in 2004, when an American male reaches 65, it is likely he will live to 82 on average. And McCain, who will be 72 when he takes office, has some long life genes in his family.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus06.pdf#027
Now regarding the McCain VP pick, why indulge in a bunch of speculation? We will know when he announces his choice. I’d like to see Huckabee or Romney. But it will probably be someone not on the radar screen.
That is ONE option she has suggested. She has also suggested a revote.
A revote to which she has no idea what the outcome would be.
Why does Obama oppose a revote?
J R posted March 30, 2008 at 6:39 pm
“Also, she knows how to fight the right. She has been their number 1 target for the last 7 years.”
She knows how to “fight” them? By falsely claiming she was under sniper fire, when a video shows her shaking hands, and standing out in the open on a watch tower?
And the R’s have hated her since she pushed a health care plan in the mid-1990’s, and/or when her husband first ran for president.
If every Candidate knew President Bush would be out by term limits, why did they wait to approach us? None of them took the time to address anything they know preach. President Bush has not changed in his 2 terms. They balk and bark at his actions. His actions are 7 years old, and the same. Barack promises change. He refuses to ellaborate. Hillary states change and experience. She refuses to ellaborate. McCain states, “we will stay at WAR and we will not leave IRAQ”. He will present with 4 more years of 8 year of BUsh Presidentcy. I hope people remember they can vote, “None of the Above”. I hope they remember they can do write-ins also. Nader seems to care and I hope people take the time to question him. We dont need hypered, false promises we wont see. We need honest, realistic communications. See http://www.wen2k.com/tell.php?Id=952 and http://www.wen2k.com/tell.php?Id=808 . I show what will and can work. I dont hide to protect “Personal Agenda”! Herbert West III, west.herb@yahoo.com
Ya get that one for free cosmos.
Next shot like that you fire and I’m throwing one at Obama.
Obama has said a revote that allows each person entitled to vote would be a great idea. The states have said they CAN’T ensure that. They say the voters who aren’t physically there int eh state (this would include soldiers) they can’t guarantee would get the ballots and return the ballots in a timely enough manner.
Now, does a revote that excludes some voters make any more sense?
It is the states – Florida and Michigan – problem! The candidates agreed to STAY THE HELL OUT OF THE PROBLEM.
Obama has kept his word.
Hillary Rodham Clinton has not!
“Why does Obama oppose a revote?”
Because the DNC would have to pay for it.
If you have anything based on FACT you should let every potential voter know that FACT!
Well folks as far as taking people at their word…
Obama called the GOP the party of ideas.
He extolled Ronald Reagan.
He told parents who cannot afford health insurance for their kids that it is their fault.
“We will know when he announces his choice. I’d like to see Huckabee or Romney.”
I’d like to see that too, outlander, because it would damage his presidential chances (much like Barnett including that nut Wagle on the ticket).
But, McCain won’t be that dumb.
One of the strengths I felt soooo good about was that everything was a known. She had been investigated until the cows came home and everything that could be uncovered or even imagined had already been debunked.
Then came her attitude about changing rules she had agreed to when it was convenient to agree because she was ahead.
Then came her story about when she landed in Bosnia.
I can’t trust her any more than I can trust bushco.
And even saying that — which I have said here publicly – I will vote for her if she is the candidate of the Democratic Party and came by that candidacy legally!
I will stay home before I will vote for McCain.
I have never missed a vote in my life!
This is serious.
Wanda Martin, if you are a racist and that’s what your diatribe is about…as a democrat let me welcome you to exit stage right to your proper party, the republican party.
I made phone calls and helped run the caucus for Hillary’s camp. I ran across very few, but there were, democrats who seem to have gotten lost when the dixiecrats were kicked out of our party.
So let me explain, I’m not a fan of Obama, but I’m also a feminist and a person who chooses equality for all races. That’s what Hillary stands for as well. If you don’t, then I can promise you Hillary doesn’t want your vote, nor wants you speaking for her. However, I somehow doubt you’re truly a Hillary supporter.
Now, as to whether or not Obama would choose Sebelius, that would put the feminists into a quandruum. We’re still very sore about Hillary, bitterly so. We’re happy that an african american is doing so well, however, it wasn’t supposed to be his time, his lack of experience scares us. So those of us who have staunchly supported Hillary, MAY have to reconsider being mad at Obama if he chooses Sebelius. I don’t feel Sebelius is the strongest candidate, unfortunately. Obama would be better off just to choose Hillary as his VP.
Obama has the OPPOSITE problem linda.
The love affair from the media has given Obama an unimaginable and troubling pass.
Hence the very late revelation of pastor Wright.
What else is there about Obama that we do not know?
Almost 232 years of rich white men running the country. Finally, we MAY have a black President and a female VP.
Only the most jaded person would not be intrigued.
This white man is excited as can be about an Obama/Sebelius ticket. If it happens, I could die the next day a happy man.
One thing I am reasonably sure of: McCain (Bush #3) does not stand a chance this season. Age, ideology, alzheimers, etc all stand in his way.
“Barack promises change. He refuses to ellaborate”
Not the case at all. He has outlined many of his ideas for turning the economy around and his position on Iraq is clear…just do your homeowrk.
You still havene;t given us any specific example of what Hilary has accomplished, JR…when you say New York is happy with her..what do you mean exactly?
And how is maintaining the division and partisian politics between the two political camps going to be an advantage in solving the colossal problems we have face in the next 8 yrs?
McCain is more of the same only it will be worse. It will be worse because we’re starting from a horribly bad position instead of a good one when bushco began our journey into insanity. We’re where we are becasue of bushco and McCain wants to continue those polocies. I’m not that stupid.
And, there are several Supremes who are likely to need replacing. They are important!
I’m sad about my disillusionment with Senator Clinton. I don’t have words to tell you how great my disappointment was.
A person’s word and being able to trust them is very important to me!
J R, you are taking snippets out of context and giving them meanings they don’t have! Several have tried to show you the entire text and the intended meanings. You have refused to see those. I won’t try because I don’t do futility. But in my opinion you are wrong. We will need to agree to disagree.
By the way?
Obama has distanced himself from calls to end the race.
Just today he said that the continuing contest is good for America.
It seems Pat Leahy talked out of turn.
Why does Obama oppose a revote?”
Because the DNC would have to pay for it.”
No, because he’d lose. Heaven forbid we do this fairly and represent the actual beliefs of our people.
Hillary should have had this nomination, the only reason she hasn’t is because of republicans playing with our elections, and michigan and florida being left out.
Hillary won all of the important states in every general election. And now he can’t even get his head above the whole preacher scandal. I think that sucks and it’s unfair, but that’s all they have to hit him with.
How’s about you tell me what Obama has accomplished there Mary?
Linda, your statement about the Supreme court swayed my opinion about staying home and withholding my vote from Obama. You’re right,there is more at stake in this than me being bitter about what Obama did to Hillary.
All is fair in the race to win the nomination it seems.
J R, the pastor Wright stuff doesn’t bother me as it has been adequately explained.
I was raised by a man who was more racist than the snippets I’ve heard from Pastor Wright.
My Dad was a racist. He was lots of other things too. And, although I can’t make any excuses for his racism I can tell you I loved him, I respected him and I still miss him a lot!
As things stand now, I cannot vote for Obama.
His supporters may take some comfort that in Kansas, my vote does not matter anyway.
But Obama hasn’t even TRIED to unsay the things he said.
The race should NOT end!
Don’t let the media and the Republicans make you feel any kind of panic or need to end a process that shouldn’t end.
Primaries are scheduled until early June. These primaries were scheduled according to the rules everyone agreed to! Those states shouldn’t be disenfranchised!
Obama has said have a revote IF every voter gets a chance to vote! The states (same ones who broke the rules originally!) have said they can’t do that.
I really think it is wrong to eliminate McCain because of his age. I think he can do the job, no matter his age. I’ve cared for many elderly, even people his age. There are still a lot of smarts there and years of experience. What I do NOT want is him extending the Bush legacy of war war war.
so lets hit him on the important issues, age isn’t one. However, his VP pick will be of utmost importance. We’ve already seen, age doesn’t matter when it comes to being disabled.
By the way, Alzheimer’s can hit as early as 40. There are other brain debilitating diseases, like Pick’s disease. Reagans staff should have made it known instead of covering for him.
You go first, JR…. afterall I ASKED YOU first.
Glad you had fun PMom…it’s nice that someone else enjoys that sort of thing, too. I couldn’t drag my husband to an opera if my life depended on it!
Next time I get free tickets, I’ll try to get you a couple, too.
Hope your back gets better.
It’s time for a movie and popcorn..catch you on the flip side!
Senator Clinton attempted to bring health care to all Americans.
Your turn.
Political_mama posted March 30, 2008 at 7:26 pm
“No, because he’d lose.”
Are you sure? I don’t what the polls for Florida and Michigan say, but,
National three-day rolling average Gallup Poll for 3/29/08
Obama 52% vs Clinton 42%, MoE +/- 3
http://www.pollingreport.com/index.html
Herb, your rambling posts are so hard to follow, and you’re a publisher??? My hind end.
SEEK HELP.
PMom, the votes in Florida and Michigan legislatures were almost unanimous (Florida had TWO legislators vote against their earlier than the rules allowed primary date!).
It wasn’t the Republicans alone – it was the legislators of those two states. SIX MONTHS in advance of the early primaries! And in those six months the voters didn’t hold their feet to the fire.
Everyone knew what the rules were, everyone agreed to the rules and everyone knew what the consequences of breaking the rules were.
It is the problem of Florida and Michigan! It is the problem of the legislators and the voters!
It isn’t the problem of any of the candidates. They also agreed to the rules and to stay out of the primaries in those two states.
Hillary broke the rules.
Obama didn’t.
Even a revote isn’t fair to the candidates like Edwards and Richardson! For heaven’s sake, people, see this clearly! See that rules were broken and consequences must be paid!
So, since Hillary thinks rules should be changed NOW, does that mean she will follow bushco and change everything that doesn’t suit her agenda if she is president?? I have had enough of that!
“Obama called the GOP the party of ideas. He extolled Ronald Reagan. He told parents who cannot afford health insurance for their kids that it is their fault.”
No he didn’t, as been proven many times.
“No, because he’d lose. Heaven forbid we do this fairly and represent the actual beliefs of our people”
He would have to lose by 70-30 percent for it to make the slightest difference.
Why did Hillary leave her name on the ballot when all of the candidate agreed to have their’s removed?
Would you like me to go get the quotes WS?
My jaw just hit the floor when he said those things.
J R,
My point about her false sniper fire claim was accurate. If she is the nominee, the R’s will run ads of her speeches, voiced over or mixed with the Bosnia videos.
And I’m still waiting for your comments re Obama’s economy speech.
If my legislators did something that meant my vote might not count and I had six months advance notice, I would accept my responsibility of making them accountable! The voters have responsibility in this mess too!
For me, it comes down to the many times bushco has changed rules to suit their needs / agenda / wants and knowing I can’t accept someone who thinks rules are for their convenience.
That’s what Senator Clinton showed me. I lost respect for her with that move.
“Even a revote isn’t fair to the candidates like Edwards and Richardson!”
Well, Richardson is really a Republican so I don’t care much about him.
How fair is it to John Edwards that Obama’s radical affiliations were revealed so astonishingly late in the contest?
If the truth had been know in January, it might well be Obama would be out of the race now and Senator Clinton would be vying with Senator Edwards.
Mary I was thrilled that my husband was willing to go with me- and didn’t act all ugh about it. It all worked out for the best though, he and my son had a wonderful time together. Son had been begging for daddy to go with him to a thing he had. It was so sweet when we got home, he had made daddy promise to wake him up so he could tell us all about it. And my daughter and I had a very wonderful time too. She was so appreciative, and she and I don’t get nearly enough time together alone anymore. It was her and I alone for so long, then when the boys came along, our time just didn’t happen anymore.
Your email was hillarious! Pink hair? I don’t have fangs either lol. That was sweet that you thought I was pretty- I had to work hard on that yesterday! You’re so beautiful. I don’t know why but I always think you’re older, even though I knew you weren’t, it’s hard to take that mental image out of your head once you’ve got it there, but now I have the accurate image and I don’t think I can ever think of you as older again.
Perhaps next time we can ALL go together or something, I hope you had a great time last night!
“Political_mama” –
Fact is, McCain is an old 71. He’ll be an even older 72 if he were to take office. The man can’t lift his arms above his shoulders and is a cancer survivor (so far).
His four “senior moments” in 48 hours don’t constitute a “gaffe,” but a serious misunderstanding of the enemy he’s committed America to for a Second Hundred Years War.
The life expectancy of an average American male is 74.1 years. Given the toughest job in the world, McCain’s age is a very real consideration.
“Would you like me to go get the quotes WS?”
I know the quotes, J R, and they do not say what you say they did.
Get over it.
Ok cosmos.
How many times do you think we will see the video of “Not God bless America! God DAMN America” if Obama is the nominee?
And I did warn you against attacks.
I can hit Obama back. Don’t make me. Last caution.
“But I think, when I think about great presidents, I think about those who transform how we think about ourselves as a country in fundamental ways…And, you know, there are circumstances in which, I would argue, Ronald Reagan was a very successful president, even though I did not agree with him on many issues, partly because at the end of his presidency, people, I think, said, “You know what? We can regain our greatness. Individual responsibility and personal responsibility are important.” And they transformed the culture and not simply promoted one or two particular issues.”
J R posted March 30, 2008 at 7:42 pm
“Would you like me to go get the quotes WS?”
I definitely would.
And provide the entire paragraphs, or include the links, so the context can be seen.
“I can hit Obama back. Don’t make me. Last caution.”
Go for it.
For every hit Obama takes, Hillary will take ten.
“I definitely would.”
Then do it – Linda already posted one of them – it doesn’t say what you said it did.
“Why did Hillary leave her name on the ballot when all of the candidate agreed to have their’s removed?”
Because she was smart and knew how Republicans play.
Take that as a clue about how this will hurt Obama in the end. I don’t like him trying so hard to get the republican vote. Independent vote, swing voters yes. NOT the republican vote. I’m wholeheartedly with JR on this point.
70-30? I don’t think so.
I’m also with Linda on the point that we don’t need to rush this. I like the fact that our people get more of a say. If the primaries weren’t supposed to last this long, the other states wouldn’t have them so late. We might need to revisit how we do our primaries as a nation. Set an no sooner than, and a no later than date.
“I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn’t much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.”
“Individual responsibility and personal responsibility are important.”
Forgive an observation linda.
But those are the sorts of things Republicans say.
Those are the kinds of things adults say. And the honest adults mean them and make sure their actions reflect them.
“Because she was smart and knew how Republicans play”
It was a DEMOCRATIC primary – playing like a Republican is nothing to brag about.
She should have done the right thing, as she AGREED to do, and remove her name from the ballot.
How can we trust her word when she says she will do one thing and then does another?
“Individual responsibility and personal responsibility are important.”
Sounds pretty damned good to me – what is the problem with that statement?
J R posted March 30, 2008 at 7:48 pm
“How many times do you think we will see the video of “Not God bless America! God DAMN America” if Obama is the nominee?”
Have you checked the Clinton – Obama polls since the Wright issue came out?
“I can hit Obama back. Don’t make me. Last caution.”
You already did, with your false claims at 7:17 pm.
“Individual responsibility and personal responsibility are important.”
I concur.
“Political_mama” –
Fact is, McCain is an old 71. He’ll be an even older 72 if he were to take office. The man can’t lift his arms above his shoulders and is a cancer survivor (so far).
His four “senior moments” in 48 hours don’t constitute a “gaffe,” but a serious misunderstanding of the enemy he’s committed America to for a Second Hundred Years War.
The life expectancy of an average American male is 74.1 years. Given the toughest job in the world, McCain’s age is a very real consideration.”
Bull, he’s not any older than any other 71 year old. So what if he can’t lift his arms? I can’t walk 3 blocks and I’m only 36. FDR was in a wheelchair. Children get cancer.
I agree, it wasn’t a senior moment, he truly doesn’t understand who is the enemy. Right now he’s aligning with his enemy Bush.
And I disagree with your last paragraph. I have seen 104 year olds win chess tournaments. I’m not at all concerned about his age.
Congratulations linda.
You’ve graduated as a full fledged Obama supporter.
You have learned to take swings at fellow Democrats.
“Set an no sooner than, and a no later than date.”
The Democrats did and Florida and Michigan violated those restrictions and now Hillary wants to ignore the fact that they violated the rules.
PMom,
One of the rules set by the DNC — with representatives from every state (that would include Florida and Michigan) WAS the dates. No primaries sooner than ___________ and no primaries later than ______________.
The two states legislators broke the rules. They broke the rules almost unanimously. And they broke them SIX FULL MONTHS before their primaries. Six months of being warned overandover they were breaking the rules and their votes couldn’t count if they didn’t make a change.
““Individual responsibility and personal responsibility are important.”
Forgive an observation linda.
But those are the sorts of things Republicans say.”
But democrats PRACTICE it.
“You have learned to take swings at fellow Democrats.”
You and Hillary do ALL the time, J R, why should Linda or any of the other Democrats be any different?
And the REPUBLICANS were a party to it. They suffered no ill effects from it.
I happen to agree along Senator Clinton’s line of thinking.
It takes a village.
Isn’t this our time to make sure we choose the very best candidate?
I’m not taking swings. I’m supporting the person I think makes the best choice.
Remember when I used to support Hillary? I was a loyal and outspoken admirer and supporter! I touted her positives!
I was quiet for several days. I wrote to her. I tried really hard and you’ll never know my disappointment.
She let me down!
“And the REPUBLICANS were a party to it. They suffered no ill effects from it.”
The rules were known and agreed to in writing before the fact – now Hillary wants to change the rules.
No dice.
Florida and Michigan did not do it before Iowa.
The before/after dates need to be legit. Not putting one state in front of the others.
That’s why FLA and Michigan moved earlier, they wanted their votes to count. Too often, the decisions are already made by then.
“Too often, the decisions are already made by then.”
ALL of the Democratic candidates agreed that the delegates from Florida and Michigan would not be seated and that their names would be removed from the ballot in Michigan.
They agreed in advance of the primaries.
Why can’t Hillary keep her word?
Forida and Michigan or no, it is going to the convention.
I think the party is better off if SOMETHING is done to accomodate Florida and Michigan.
“I think the party is better off if SOMETHING is done to accomodate Florida and Michigan.”
How can you seat Michigan delegates when, by agreement, Obama’s name wasn’t even on the ballot?
The time for any state (or any person) to change the rules is before they agree to them.
I didn’t believe this stuff either!
I did a lot of investigating. And even then I had to investigate some more because I didn’t want to believe something different than I had heard.
What I had heard was wrong. And I am in this for truth. I’m glad things – Pastor Wright, Hillary’s landing in Bosnia, etc. etc. – are coming out. In fact, I think it is one of the many pluses we the voters have because of two strong candidates. They are keeping one another honest, they are keeping WE THE VOTERS better informed.
Do you want me to go get all the things I read, studied, all the sites I visited on my quest for truth? I will. I will look them all up again! I’ll bring them here so you won’t have to do the investigation I did.
I am trustworthy! I did the work. Hillary is very wrong on this one! She let me down!
Senator Clinton is more politically savvy than her opponents. Since when is political savvy a liability in politics?
ESPECIALLY when dealing with vile Republicans.
J R posted March 30, 2008 at 7:17 pm
“<i<He extolled Ronald Reagan.”
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/18/obama.transcript/
“In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don’t feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race.
…
Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition.”
“Since when is political savvy a liability in politics?”
Political savvy or breaking your word?
She promised, now she wants to take back that promise.
What other promises does she want to take back? How many more will she want to take back?
Reagan ALSO cut student loans and started the ball rolling to eliminate welfare!
“Senator Clinton is more politically savvy than her opponents.”
Check the delegate counts and,
National three-day rolling average Gallup Poll for 3/29/08
Obama 52% vs Clinton 42%, MoE +/- 3
What else do we not know about Obama?
When he says he will reach out to the Evangelical right? What does he mean?
He has already thrown gay Americans under the bus. Who is next to be sacrificed to reach out to the Evangelicals?
When he says he wants to work with Republicans, what is he prepared to give up after so much is already lost?
We are really lucky to have these two to discuss!
Look at the Republican Party — stuck with a candidate already decided that NOT ONE poster can make a positive statement about. Best we hear is he isn’t a Democrat, he is better than the other choice(es), he won’t raise taxes (does that make you think of the “read my lips” moment from bush I??).
They are stuck with a man who can’t win!
They have to make up controversial things like our candidates are taking the party down, it will be up to Super Delegates, etc., etc.
Always remember this process is going exactly as it should – right on schedule. And we will have a candidate when it is timely.
Our candidate will be our choice and will be the next President of the United Staes of America.
Well linda
There are NO Clinton supporters calling an early halt. That’s some of the Obama folks.
First Jr, there is getting elected and secndly there is serving in your office.
Obama is running for the office.
Remember your words about political savvy?
J R,
We’re still waiting for your quotes and/or links to back up your 7:17 pm post.
Take a few minutes and find them please.
They’re wrong! They should keep their mouths shut! Why should anyone be allowed to disenfranchise states that haven’t YET held their primaries?
Oh and NOW the appelation of “Jr”?
That isn’t nice linda.
cosmos I’m a little busy to go searching just now.
J R posted March 30, 2008 at 8:16 pm
There are NO Clinton supporters calling an early halt.”
LOL! Didn’t Clinton herself ask him to “halt” and become her VP, when he had the lead in delegates?
If I did that it was from typing too quickly and I didn’t even know it.
If you say I did, I believe you and I am sorry. I will be more careful.
And, “lindainks55″ –
The Florida decision was made by a Republic Party-dominated legislature and Governor.
It was political gamesmanship at its worst.
But the bigger issue is how the Clinton campaign has somehow drawn a correlation between Democratic primary results and how the general election is likely to go.
Barack Obama won the Kansas caucuses but no one really expects Kansas to go for any Democrat in the general. Senator Clinton won the Massachusetts primary but no on in their right might believes it will vote for any Republic Party candidate in the general. Clinton eked out a victory in the California primary but all the smart money says it will vote Blue in November. New York Democrats voted for their favorite daughter in the primary but any Democrat in November will win that Blue state and everyone knows it.
This election will come down to the purple states. Virginia, for example, which went with Obama. North Carolina, perhaps, which is not an automatic Republic Party win such as Alabama and Mississippi. But Obama’s strength in traditionally Red states will keep them in play for a while and sap McCain’s money and efforts in the fall.
It’s not the right thing, lord knows, but Republic Party voters in every traditionally Red state will be extra-motivated to vote against Senator Clinton if she’s the Democrats’ nominee.
McCain’s chief media advisor has said he’ll resign his post if Barack Obama is McCain’s opponent in the fall because he knows the only way McCain could win against Senator Obama is for the Republic Party candidate to play the race card. There are, amazingly, a few principled Republic Party activists remaining.
Sometimes, I almost type your real name! I have caught myself. I am sorry for the typo — and, that is what it was — A TYPO!
I’ll slow down.
And, I’ll lay off too.
You have a good mind. You will make a good decision – FOR YOU! I don’t expect you to make a decision that isn’t yours and right for you. That’s why we each get a vote!
I’m sorry cosmos, you may have missed it.
An Obama supporter the other day was advocating that Obama form a third party and run against Senator Clinton if she be the nominee.
I had hoped the Jr bit was a mistake there linda. I am assured it was.
J R,
I suspect that you will always be too “busy” to find the links supporting your 7:17 post.
Like you seem to be too busy to watch or read Obama’s economy speech.
cosmos
I do my research on my own schedule thanks.
I devote most of my time to getting ahead of the right. You should too.
“The Florida decision was made by a Republic Party-dominated legislature and Governor.”
Absolutely accurate! I would need to look up the actual vote counts again but I do remember that ONLY TWO in the Florida House voted against the act that set the earlier than rules allowed primary. The Senate vote was unanimous.
And to be real honest the vote was on a measure that addressed several things having to do with elections — the main one a paper trail and no more punch cards.
I did my homework on this issue!
It is also the Florida REPUBLICAN Governor who is fighiting a revote.
Even though a revote would be an economic boon to Florida in the way of advetising and campaign dollars.
J R,
Candidates are responsible for what they suggest… but not what their supporters suggest.
Hillary suggested that Obama be her VP.
Obama said that the race should continue.
1) Wanda = Reich Wing Puntang…
2) Obama VP COULD be Sen. Casey, PA… Casey is Pro-Life… Could bring in swing votes…
3) Bill Richardson would be a good choice for Secy. of State, given his international expertise.
4) McCain needs a strong Moderate Voice to even have a chance!!
Senator Clinton IS the senior in the contest there cosmos.
And certainly Obama has since demonstrated weaknesses.
There are things you Obama supporters should know.
I do MY homework on what the right is up to.
But I cannot help you without seeming to attack Obama. Maybe I will write to Capn or Steven or linda.
“An Obama supporter the other day was advocating that Obama form a third party and run against Senator Clinton if she be the nominee.”
Finish the statement, J R, don’t revert to your Republican ways………….
…………. IF Hillary steals the nomination through kneecapping or arm twisting, even though Obama has the most delegates and the popular vote.
Kindly include EVERYTHING, not just your own snip ‘n’ clip version.
J R — the biggest thing the Right is up to, is trying to play a game of bait and switch, and so far, the Democrats are not doing enough fighting back, to stop their nonsense!!
“IF Hillary steals the nomination through kneecapping or arm twisting,”
This is why I did not need to say more than I did.
Senator Clinton IS restricted to working within the party rules. There is no “stealing” to it.
“McCain’s chief media advisor has said he’ll resign his post if Barack Obama is McCain’s opponent in the fall because he knows the only way McCain could win against Senator Obama is for the Republic Party candidate to play the race card. There are, amazingly, a few principled Republic Party activists remaining.”- Monkeyhawk
——————
BS Monkeyhawk. Does everything you write to have an element of truth and an element of a lie? You and CapnHalfTruth are like peas in a pod. Why can’t you stick to the facts instead of making crap up?
—————–
“John McCain’s chief media adviser will leave the campaign if Barack Obama becomes the Democratic nominee—because he has too much respect for the Illinois senator to go negative against him. “I will be supporting from the sidelines,” Mark McKinnon said when asked yesterday if he’d follow through on a pledge not to be in a fight versus Obama, the Chicago Tribune reports.
“McKinnon, who has also been a high-level Bush aide, said he will “be supporting 100% John McCain under any circumstances.” But “I like him a great deal,” he said of Obama—and though he disagrees “on very fundamental issues,” he would “simply be uncomfortable being in a campaign that would be inevitably attacking” him. He added that negativity would hurt McCain’s chances.”
http://www.newser.com/story/19060.html
——————
Hmmm… No mention of a “race card”, Monkeyhawk. And if he was such a great principled guy why would he be advising McCain if he thought he would play the race card? I wouldn’t either.
Monkeyhawk, do you have any evidence that McKinnon meant that McCain would play a race card? If not, you are nothing but a race pimp yourself.
“I do my research on my own schedule thanks.”
But you THREATENED to post what Obama said…. remember?
“Would you like me to go get the quotes WS?”
Please email or post it here. It’s OK to be FOR a candidate! If you have something every voter should know, post it. If it’s something you would rather not share with the Republicans email it. But remember, it is ABSOLUTELY GREAT to be for someone! Don’t take any of what others who are FOR someone else to be negative about your candidate unless it really is.
And what the Republicans say – just scroll over those posts. They have nothing. How many times can Paul post the same stuff? He lost credibility a loooong time ago!
J R posted March 30, 2008 at 8:37 pm
“I do MY homework on what the right is up to.
But I cannot help you without seeming to attack Obama.”
You seem to be attacking Obama without doing your “homework” on Obama. Like your 7:17 pm post.
“Senator Clinton IS restricted to working within the party rules.”
So why isn’t she willing to respect the party rules regarding Michigan and Florida?
Eh?
Why not. It’s not like Florida and Michigan wanted to vote before Iowa, nor before four OTHER states that hold their primaries before florida and michigan MOVED to.
So why is it that the DNC wanted to punish them? I’m seeing this from a different light than before.
I understand wanting there to be a limit on how soon we start, but Iowa is already out the gate by then, so why is the DNC punishing them anyway??
I don’t want to disenfranchise ANY voters, including Florida and Michigan.
They need to completely redo the democratic part of the elections there.
Well I have already said that as to the process, Michigan and Florida are irrelevant.
It is unwise for the voters of Michigan and Florida to SEE themselves that way. But as to the process it does not matter.
Unless there is a drastic development (and it won’t be on Senator Clinton) this is going to the convention. THAT is within the rules. There is nothing dirty or unfair about it.
Read them, PMom.
I don’t know WHY Ohio gets to be first, don’t even agree it should get to always be first, but those are the rules everyone agreed to.
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/08/highlights_of_t.php
Maybe the rules should be changed. But not after the fact.
I’ll write to you linda.
And here is a fairly easy to understand article about the delegates not counting. Note the article is dated August of 2007. All of this was known far in advance and could have been changed!
http://tinyurl.com/343aao
The DNC was WISE to rein in the primary process.
It was getting out of control going earlier and earlier.
But they did not foresee this close contest.
And AGAIN as to the process of nomination, Florida and Michigan are not relevant to either Obama or Senator Clinton winning the pledge delegates.
It is just politically wise in the end to address this problem SOME way.
“So why is it that the DNC wanted to punish them?”
The candidates AGREED before the fact, in writing……………
Why can’t Hillary supporters see and understand that?
BEFORE the fact……………………………..
There must be rules.
And if rules aren’t expected to be followed, if there are no consequences for breaking the rules then what good are even having them?
I’m a Mom. Sometimes following the rules was as hard on me as my kids. But if I made those rules you bet I followed them. There wasn’t any choice!
Hilary supporters probably can’t see and understand the agreement for some of the same reasongs some of you can’t seem to see or understand what McCain says or how he votes.
Until we the voters hold our elected officials accountable then we will continue to get what we deserve — disappointed!
Those voters in Florida and Michigan should have made their state legislators accountable to them and not allowed them to endanger their votes!
But you know what? Their legislators set those too early primaries (against the rules) in May of 2007. You know what the voters did in November. They reelected those bozos!
I see McCain very clearly, Nathan. And I have one vote. Do you et more?
*get
can’t type well slowly, and it gets worse when I hurry.
Look
The nominee will NOT be determined by Florida and Michigan revoting.
Senator Clinton could not win with pledge delegates even if she got 100 % of the votes there. I don’t know the math for Obama but that does not matter since it is he who opposes a revote.
And Senator Clinton knows this too.
It is just unwise for Florida and Michigan voters to get the message that they don’t matter.
They DON’T. They cannot make Obama the nominee. They cannot make Senator Clinton the nominee.
But they should not get the lingering idea that they don’t matter.
Nathan, democrats are having a discussion here, stay out of it.
Political Mama,
There seemed to be an open question of why Hilary supporters can’t seem to see something.
I was trying to be helpful in giving WS Clark an example of how he does the same thing with McCain and the reasons might be similar.
Besides all that, this is a public blog. If you don’t want some random person or me jumping in, go to some private chat room or email each other.
In some ways it is sad to have two strong candidates this year, isn’t it?
I do believe in proportional delegates vs. winner take all. I like that if one candidate gets 60% of the vote s/he gets 60% of that state’s delegates. I think it is more fair. The Super Delegates will probably be revisited. Maybe not. I do not believe they will go against the will of the people’s votes. I don’t think they are stupid.
The number of delegates needed to be nominated has been reduced by the numbers Florida and Michigan won’t be awarded so they aren’t even part of the equation.
I hope to live long enough to see the electoral college banned. It is no longer needed.
But one thing I am sure of is that rules are necessary and once you agree to them you follow them.
And they can’t be changed or your word doesn’t mean anything.
Nathan has this problem with nose trouble…
It’s late so I will say good nite all.
Remember! We are in an inviable position! We will have an excellent candidate when it is timely. Don’t even listen to those who try to make this controversial – it isn’t!
And our candidate will be the next President of the United States of America.
9 months, 23 days, 9 hours and 42 minutes
to January 20, 2009!
Let’s have the biggest party!!
Linda,
Keep up that positive attitude. Unfortunately, the longer Clinton and Obama go at it, the greater the lead in the polls McCain seems to be getting against either of them.
“I was trying to be helpful in giving WS Clark an example of how he does the same thing with McCain and the reasons might be similar.”
How cares what you think, Price?
How = Who…………………
Damn.
“Nathan” posits –
“…the longer Clinton and Obama go at it, the greater the lead in the polls McCain seems to be getting against either of them.”
Keep dancing your November victory dance in March, “Nathan.”
Consider it the Republic Party’s “Mission Accomplished.”
How about we just ignore his drivel. We don’t need to listen to republicans trying to drive that wedge even further.
Imagine, comparing either of our candidates to McBush. HA.
We have TWO nominees Nathan.
YOU are stuck with one.
And he is FAR from what you would choose.
Nathan does not seem to be able to read polls — most are basically stagnant, and some show Obama and/or Clinton improving on McCain.
http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm
November is a long way off…
And what happens if (or more likely when) McCain flubs some basic facts during the debates? Like his false claim (4 times in 2 days) that Iran is training AQ.
31 minutes cosmos?
Well maybe you as a comfortable supporter of Obama have the internet capacity to view a 31 minute speech.
See? I don’t.
It would take half a day for me to download that speech!
I KNOW, it’s my fault.
Get me a link to a transcript. So that this poor cast off affordable loss to Obama can see what he has to say.
J R,
Try this… has excerpts of highlights, and a link to the full transcript at NY Times.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/27/112357/993/773/485355
And check into dropping DSL prices. Low speed rates are around $15/month, and less if agree to a 1 year contract.
“Senator Clinton attempted to bring health care to all Americans.
“Your turn.”
The differences between the two on healthcare are not all that significant.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/clinton-obama_pillow_fight.html
hwww.factcheck.org/elections-2008/cleveland_clinkers.html
Nathan and his dad never had a good thing to say about McCain..now they’re all for him..talk about a pair of “flip floppers”! The dems are going to get it in November…McCain is already showing signs of dementia and he’s just running for office.
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