The attack dogs have been trying for months to smear Barack Obama based on statements made by his Chicago pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. A video clip going viral on the Internet may finally do the trick. It shows Wright giving an inflammatory sermon in which he says America invited the Sept. 11 attacks and says “God damn America†for its treatment of blacks. And he says, “Hillary Clinton has never been called a nigger.â€
It’s explosive stuff. And Fox News and others are all over it.
Obama has said before that he disagrees with Wright on Sept. 11 and other subjects, but he will need to do more to explain his relationship with Wright and repudiate some of the pastor’s views, or this could be a big issue in the general election and strike at the heart of Obama’s electability claims.
FYI: Here is a snopes.com analysis of some of the e-mail claims about Obama’s pastor and church.
319 Comments
smear
If people who went to church agreed with everything the church leader believed then no Catholics in America would be using contraception. The media is scraping the bottom of the barrel for controversy again. Some days I can’t tell the difference between the main stream media and the National Enquirer.
IF Hillary is responsible for what Ferraro says, Obama must also be responsible for what his pastor says.
Or, maybe we could all agree to personal responsibility and expect the same from other adults.
As I posted on another thread –
I’ve heard a dozen or more Christian sermons that juxtaposed the terms “God bless America” and “God damn America,” mostly within the context of how we as individuals don’t live up to our promises and we as a nation don’t live up to our principles. “Equality under the law,” for instance. “All men are created equal,” and that stuff.
There’s a basic difference between fundamentalists (of any religion) and those of us who go to church to hear questions rather than answers.
The fundie preacher claims “every answer is in the Bible,” while more enlightened theologians realize that life and faith and “God” are all questions we mere mortals will never understand.
If “God” knows everything about the human condition, humans cannot possibly grasp the ramifications. If “God” doesn’t, He does’t meet the job requirements.
Fundamentalist Christians (and Muslims, and Jews, and every other religion in the world) play to the crowd and claim they speak for “God.” They supplant “God” and claim *they* have the asnwers. The only rational approach to religion is to seek a relationship with “God-ness” by asking questions. Questions such as, “Why do bad things happen to good people?” and “What is justice?” and “What is ‘evil?’” and “How can we mere mortals deal with (even, perhaps, overcome) evil?”
I’m sure there’s some sort of smug comfort for those who think they’ve founr *the* answer, who are “saved” (though they never say what they’re saved for, who have been convinced that *THEY* have the answers and all of us who don’t worship their way are somehow less worthy.
I don’t think the Catholic Church is a “whore,” and I doubt the $cientologists have a much better grasp on universal truth than Marshall Applewhite. Or the Pope. Or John Hagee. Or the Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
But I tend to gravitate toward theologies that ask questions rather than proclaim answers. Aren’t *answers,* after all, “God’s” job?
God is bigger than you. God is bigger than your church. God isn’t limited by a brain made out of meat. God’s pretty much got it all to Himself.
If God considers economic injustice, racial hatred, lust, sloth, and all those things that contribute to what “America” is, why would He deign to *bless* us?
Would that we had an America worthy of God’s blessing.
http://foxattacks.com/virus?utm_source=rgemail
I agree that this pastor’s words are no different than those of Robertson or Falwell, both who had great influence on the current administration.
The difference, is that there are a whole lot of (especially older) white people who are afraid that electing a black man will create an environment where blacks will ‘take over’ and demand we whiteys pay them back for racism and slavery.
I don’t believe that, but my father does. Iasked him to leave the democratic party awhile back for his racist views too. But it’s there.
In response to “lindainks55,” who posted –
“IF Hillary is responsible for what Ferraro says, Obama must also be responsible for what his pastor says.”
Eh? Not so much.
In 1984, Geraldine Ferraro’s vice-presidential nomination seemd like a desperate Hail Mary (Hail, Jerry?) play by the Mondale campaign. Reagan was wrong in the long run but was still running on myths and nostalgia and had re-election wrapped up. Ferraro-as-veep-nominee was due exclusively because she is a female.
Ferraro’s recent media frenzy has been designed to play the race card. And, frankly, the gender card.
There’s an old rule I remember from my days as a polirical activist:
Attack that which cannot be defended. Defend that which has not been attacked.”
“Would that we had an America worthy of God’s blessing.”
———
Fortunately Monkeyhawk, God has blessed this country in spite of our unworthiness. But unfortunately for Obama, a lot of people are going to tie him to this inflammatory racist preacher who G–D–’s America. And really, it is not unfair to to do so, since he attended his church for 20 years and considers his a mentor.
Barrack Obama along with his America hating wife and their America hating, racist preacher who HATE America and white people are NOT what America needs! VOTE FOR HILLARY!! Before it is too late. THIS is an OUTRAGE.
Obama’s Mentor –> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM
“outlander” offers –
“God has blessed this country in spite of our unworthiness.”
And you know this… how?
Did God tell you that?
Or do you admit that America is unworthy of His blessing?
If the latter, then America’s gotta lot to live up to. If the former, you’re the Prophet we’ve all been waiting for.
But … but … I thought the story was that HUSSEIN was a Muslim?
/sarcasm off
Dr. Wright’s language is NOT offensive in a Black congregation… In a white congregation, probably it is… Are Church members required to agree with their Pastor on everything?? Hogwash! Of course not. In the United Church of Christ, if enough members disagree with the Pastor, the Church asks for his resignation. The Pastor has no control over individual members. Pastors are called with “freedom of the pulpit” meaning that the Church Board, or Congregation cannot dictate to the Pastor WHAT he/she will preach in Sunday sermons. Many people maintain membership in a congregation where they dont always agree with the Pastor, because they know full well that they will be there a lot longer than the Pastor will be there!!
Nuff said…
“IF Hillary is responsible for what Ferraro says, Obama must also be responsible for what his pastor says.
“Or, maybe we could all agree to personal responsibility and expect the same from other adults.”
Or, candidates are not responsible for the stupid things a declared supporter says in his/her support of them. Like I said on another thread, Hillary Clinton should not be held responsible for Ferraro’s comments, and Barack Obama should not be held responsible for Wright’s comments.
A lot of people do seem to misunderstand Wright and the historical contexts of much of what he says(the historical and cultural bias against African Americans is well supported both by, well, history and current behavioral and anthropological/social research). That being said, Wright can also be something of a loose cannon. Also, I have to wonder if Wright’s contrasting comments about Hillary Clinton verses Barack Obama was made in the context of a church service, in his role as minister (as it certainly seems to have been). He was definitely flirting with TUCC’s tax exempt status if he was.
Yeah, the swearing ceremony for Obama, would include , three M..F__ing’s, couple of G.D.’s, some KKK Whitey references and of course the every popular oppressed Palestinian and South America mantra of “we are the world’s victims.”
Glory! Glory! Can I get an Amen!
Glory!
Ghost of Mohammed Atta: See Khalid, I told you Barak could do it. All?hu Akbar! Glory!
Re: Hillary all the way…
DNFTRT
KsAgn says “He was definitely flirting with TUCC’s tax exempt status if he was.”
Yes, I would definitely agree with that, KsAgn… He is walking a fine line… And IF I know some of those leaders like I think I do, he will be warned to NOT do that from the Pulpit… He can freely express his personal political views, but NOT to the comparison/contrast of two candidates for office… even in the Primary Season…
Re: Regular
DNFTT
Chas,
So you think saying God Damn America the way that Pastor did was just fine?
“Hillary All the Way!!!!” offers –
“Barrack Obama along with his America hating wife and their America hating, racist preacher who HATE America and white people are NOT what America needs! VOTE FOR HILLARY!! Before it is too late. THIS is an OUTRAGE.”
Welcome to this forum, “Hillary All the Way!!!!”
It’s always refreshing to hear a new and unique voice on these kinds of forums (fora?) who aren’t sock puppets.
Seems like the Cons aren’t really trying anymore.
Nathan, depending on the context, yes… As a blanket statement, of course not…
Chas,
Under what context do you think it is ok to Damn anyone or proclaim that God Damn someone?
Monkey”boy”
“Welcome to this forum, “Hillary All the Way!!!!”
Hillary All the Way is JR. At least that’s my guess. I’d betcha a beer on it.
And before you get off on a tangent, I am NOT going to argue the styles/formats of Black Preachers in America… Mainly, because neither one of us is qualified to do so!!
Nathan, did you chastize Fox, Falwell, and Robertson for saying practically the same thing?
Oh that was because of gays, my bad. It’s only ok when God damns America for gays, not racism. I got it.
No, JR wouldn’t be HATW. Whoever posted that is certainly not a Hillary supporter. I’ll bet it’s AmWay.
No flag lapel-wearing , U.S. “KKK” of A. Hussein Obama will have the Secret Service wearing traditional Somali garb and carrying the ‘preferred weapon of our enemy’ - the AK47.*
*Heart Break Ridge.
The difference between Ferraro, Shaheen (sic) and Penn, etc, and Wright and Donnie McHater is that the former WORKED for the Clinton campaign and the latter did not work for Obama.
There is a large difference.
Nathan, in the same context as King David was ostracized by the Prophet, when he sent Uriah to the front lines of battle to be killed… The Prophet got David to issue a statement of damnation over the “bad guy” in his parable, and then said, “David, YOU are that man!” There IS a time and place for such rhetoric… IN its appropriate context… The Cross has been around a LOT longer than the Flag!! Please try to remember that… ok??
Sure has been a long campaign season and there are sooo many months of this to go.
Basketball is calling my name. It’s more interesting than the latest bright and shiny object dangled to keep us from paying attention to what really needs our attention…
Political Mama,
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe those types simply said they thought God was punishing us, they were not proclaiming that God should punish us, or damn us for that matter.
There is a huge difference in saying you think or believe we are being punished and proclaiming that God should damn us or anyone.
Then again, I never pay any attention to those guys anyway.
You would have to refresh me with what they said.
Did Obama ever clarify his statement? Does Obama think he is God?
“We’re going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.”
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/08/obama.faith/index.html
I’m reserving judgment myself. I haven’t seen the full video yet–caustic sloganeering aside, I want see the man’s reasoning–was it some kind of loony “God’s revenge” thing (ala Falwell), or was he actually talking about American policy in the region? Granted, even the latter wouldn’t justify such indiscriminate brutality–nothing could–but it’s at least closer to a rational argument.
I think it would be good, regardless of what was said, to look a little deeper (calmly and carefully, thanks!) into this man’s relationship with his pastor (don’t cringe, Obama supporters–remember, turnabout is fair play, and remember Bob Jones University! :) ).
Boy, its been a long time since Ive heard a good old time Racist all fired up.
Now imagine the headlines from the WE and other MSM if Fallwell or Robertson had come up with this shit.
It would be an outrage….heh.
But of course he is black….so apparently Ferraro was right. Both for Obama and for this assclown.
Poor ol’ “Nathan” asks –
“So you think saying God Damn America the way that Pastor did was just fine?”
Yeah, pretty much.
It’s a lot like your preacher telling you you are damned if you don’t walk up to the altar and get dunked in the baptismal font.
Like it or not (and you, obviously like it) America has done a lot of things that aren’t really worth God’s “blessing.”
Linda — What Network is Basketball on today??
Chas,
You will have to quote me the verse where anyone was “damned.”
I am familiar with the story, but don’t recall any such thing.
Then, go look it up!!
What If a Republican Called, Like Obama, for God’s ‘Kingdom on Earth’?
By Mark Finkelstein | October 8, 2007 - 08:20 ET
“This is Anne Jones, reporting live from the headquarters of the ACLU, where the organization has issued a ‘DEFCON 1 Threat-to-the-Constitution Alert’ in the wake of a Republican presidential candidate’s call for the creation of God’s ‘kingdom on earth.’ We’re speaking with ACLU representative Amanda Rogers. Ms. Rogers, now that a Republican candidate has brought the wall that separates church and state crashing to the ground, can our constitutional system be saved?”
“Anne, I’m afraid the answer is a resounding ‘no,’ at least, not if someone who thinks like this, and who sadly reflects the thinking of his entire party, is elected president. Fortunately, there are candidates from another party who respect the constitutionally decreed separaration of church and state.”
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/10/08/what-if-republican-obama-called-gods-kingdom-earth
Hamas and Hesbollah support Barak Hussein Obama, pledges campaign contribution and large crowds of Palestinians carry photo placards of the anointed one that will deliver them from the ‘White Devils’ and the ‘Great Satan’ of the West.
Chas,
You are the one who made the assertion, is it so hard for you to back it up without acting so indignant?
I just did review the story and I don’t see a verse saying what you are claiming.
Chas, I’[m watching ESPNU, but I think this same game is on other channels (like the local KSAS 4 / 24). We have a dish and calling out channels is nothing but confusing from here.
Plus, I’m practicing to be as good as my hubby and doing lots of button pushing and jumping between channels. I’m not as good as him and sometimes just get lost.
Chas.
Posted March 11, 2008 at 12:11 am | Permalink
This looks interesting >>>>
————————————————-
=================================================
The above post by Chas is perhaps the sickest most cruel post I have ever seen on ANY blog. It’s on yesterday’s Open (3/10), but I shall not repost the whole thing here.
BLOG EDITORS, I would hope you take note and take the appropriate action against Chas.
And Regular, I hope you take appropriate action too. My condolences on your loss, if indeed this is a factual, though totally inappropriate post from Chas.
Linda,
It is not so much about holding Obama “responsible” for what this Pastor said, as it is wondering what Obama has to say in regards to his association with this Pastor.
You are judged by the company you keep and if Obama agrees with the Pastor or doesn’t disagree then he will and should be lumped in with the Pastors comments.
Nathan,
Are you really surprised Chas would say it’s OK for a Pastor to say “God D*** America” in church or anywhere else?
CHANGE
Remember, it’s all about CHANGE.
(wink)
Max,
Of course I am not surprised. Chas is about as Christian as I am a Muslim.
I am simply curious to see how he justifies this Pastor.
Chas will defend anyone EXCEPT those who preach about Jesus and Salvation through him.
Amazing.
“Now imagine the headlines from the WE and other MSM if Fallwell or Robertson had come up with this shit.”
They have. Where were you?
Nathan, I am so sorry if you have read the story, and do not see the condemnation issued by the Prophet…. It is clearly spelled out in the story… I am not going to do your Bible research for you… You are quite capable of doing it for yourself…
And, as I said before, I am not going to argue with you about the various styles/formats of Black Preaching in America…
I may actually have to watch the Democrat party convention later this year. Things are shapin up real intresting like.
Water cannons anyone?
MAX — SHUT UP!!
So Rev. “G-D America” Wright and Rev. Fred “God Hates America” Phelps, seem to have a kindred agreement that God is against us. These guys have a personal link with God?
Awe shucks, just another preacher spout’n off hate. Nothing to get all worked up about. After all, Obama is not a Muslim, he is a “christian” just like Wright (and Phelps)! Obama and his wife love America! Obama is so darned proud that he wears the American flag on his lapel. Oh nevermind…scratch that.
Keep it up, Max.
You and those like you are the best thing Democrats have going.
Go into the toilet and sling the BM.
Lest anyone forget, this is the individual who claimed, in all apparent seriousness, that Chas. is demon possessed.
Ksagnostic,
And we all disagreed with what Falwell and Robertson said too.
They were publically chastised as well. However, as “similar” as their statements were, they were not calling for God to “damn America”.
Chas, I’m pretty sure someone pointed out yesterday that few people actually read the posts Max makes. She has gone to a new level of scroll over with this one, but you are not helping by thinking you need to make a response to the stupidity she posts! Ignore it, most of the rest of us are.
Ditto for rfl, the truly ugly face of the Christian Right.
Chas,
So you won’t say anything about the so called “Black Style” of preaching, but you have no problem telling me and others you veiw as “fundamentalists” how wrong we are.
You are a Hypocrite.
Say Chas, when are you posting the obituary of the day? That’s such a great service you perform.
Obama’s church gave Farrakhan an award - Looks like the pattern of hating America and supporting terrorist groups like Hamas and Hesbollah will be standard path for the Barak Hussein Obama campaign trail.
CHANGE…
I will say no more Linda… Ok??? :-)
Chas,
Looks like you have the regular chorus of non-Christians supporting you.
I wonder why that is?
Nathan, I havent said anything about the preaching style of Fundamentalists and/or Pentecostals either… And you wont find a reference to such… Cause, ummmm it aint there!!
Just waiting for :: to show up.
I wonder if will have to be facing east five times a day?
Salah…
CHANGE…
Whewwwww!!! This is a big sigh of relief!
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4452990&page=1
Sen. Barack Obama says he “obviously disagrees” with his pastor of 20 years who said black Americans should sing “God Damn America” instead of “God Bless America.”
Wow, Nathan, looks like you have the regular chorus of Wing Nuts supporting you… Wonder why that is?? ROFL!!! Too funny!!!
Obama is not responsible for what his pastor said - but he needs to distance himself.
Not only did Obama cite that same pastor as a “mentor” in his book, he also currently stands by the man who dares to damn America.
By itself, it’s not that big of a deal but when you consider that one of Obama’s advisers hints at the need to invade Israel, just after we’re done with the Pakistan invasion Obama talked about, and a frightening picture begins to emerge.
Obama’s pastor also upholds the terrorists in Palestine and denounces the Israel’s for defending their borders.
What’s Obama’s real agenda anyway?
“Ksagnostic,
“And we all disagreed with what Falwell and Robertson said too.
“They were publically chastised as well. However, as ’similar’ as their statements were, they were not calling for God to ‘damn America’.”
No, they just said God already did it, or at least willfully withdrew “protection” from the United States so that 9/11 could happen.
Right, God let 9/11 happen because of uppity gays and feminists. This is exactly the sort of slime that gets the CR in trouble.
As for Wright’s comments about 9/11, he is simply wrong. The Islamists dislike for the US has to do with their intolerance of other cultures, tied into and taking advantage of some legitimate colonial grievances against the west, but to be clear, that is NOT the Islamists beef with us, their beef with us is the same as their beef with 90% of the world, including most of the Islamic world, they don’t like the very existance of competing cultural and religious viewpoints.
#
Max
Posted March 14, 2008 at 1:57 pm | Permalink
Whewwwww!!! This is a big sigh of relief!
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4452990&page=1
Sen. Barack Obama says he “obviously disagrees” with his pastor of 20 years who said black Americans should sing “God Damn America” instead of “God Bless America.”
————————
Barak agreed before he disagreed…
CHANGE…
Are you kidding? Obama chose this church; he has been a member for 20 years. The pastor married him, baptized his children. You can not tell me this Pastor developed his views of the world overnight and it just so happened Obama never sat in the pews and heard these sermons.
What kind of judgment are you displaying if you maintain a relationship with a church and pastor with such radical views?
If we forget Obama for a moment and think about his young daughters, it’s okay for Obama’s children to be exposed to this kind of hate?
Do the Obama’s believe at some level that any of what this man says is true? Is that why Michelle Obama states in her speeches that “America is mean” and “I am proud of America for the first time in my life”? Have these views formed because of this Pastor?
Nathan — I refuse to lift ANY nation… or the flag ANY nation… above the Cross…. So, dont even start with me, ok???
And Hillary agreed to NOT count Michigan and Florida, before she disagreed.
Hillary’s getting her way on the MI/FL issue. Stealing the election will be finalized by the Superdelegates.
And of course more “News Releases” like this Rev Wright video.
But Susan, I suppose its totally OK for other peoples’ children to sit in church pews Sunday after Sunday, and be exposed to hatred of Gays week after week???
Chas,
Disagreeing with saying “God Damn America” has nothing to do with lifting any nation above the cross.
So… I never started with you… ok?
The point I made earlier is that you have no problem saying how wrong I am and how wrong those you consider “fundamentalists” to be either.
But when a Black preacher is out saying God Damn America over and over again, that is just his “style” and you are not going to say it is wrong.
You are a Hypocrite.
“In an interview with KTVQ television he added: “What I’m really focused on right now, because all that stuff is premature, is winning this nomination and changing the country,” he said.”
- BARAK HUSSEIN OBAMA
Salah…
CHANGE…
And here it is, the preview of what we can expect of Obama is the nominee from the nasty right wing of this country (the folks who think they are so right that anything goes, and who are so reflexive in their beliefs that they will believe every slander against a person of the enemy).
This mess is a test for Barack Obama. What he thinks, and what he has said, has been well documented (have any of these right wing clowns actually bothered to READ The Audacity of Hope (the book Wright is said too have influenced)? Probably not. And I can say in honesty that I disagree strongly with some of the things Obama said (ironically and tellingly, these were comments that someone like, say, Nathan would be more likely to agree with). He is going to have to continue to articulate his own beliefs and how he arrived at them. He is also going to have to specifically focus on and reject what he disagrees with Wright over.
And of course, as always, it is going to be almost impossible for Americas’ punditocracy (not necessarily the just the right wingers) to actually focus on which of this stuff is true and which of this stuff is absolute BS, but rather on how it affects a candidate’s chances. Political journalists do not do their damn JOBS.
Davis Merrit’s recent editorial in the Eagle was an excellent commentary on this subject.
How many of the right wing haters have even bothered to read to Snopes article?
Obviously not McCreepy, who seems to want to play the Obama is a secret Muslim card, even though that has been debunked over and over again.
Just for once, Republics, try using real facts in your arguments.
Not that it would matter much - none of the far right yahoos would be voting for Obama anyway - far too dark skinned for most of you.
Regular,
Deflection is the only defense Obama and his entranced supporters can use regarding the views of their church and their pastor.
Susan made a very good point about children in this church being exposed to such language. Great example for the children. Very acceptable to the Libs here.
The anti-American Libs see nothing wrong with Rev Wrights attacks on America.
Black Power!
You know, it is very clear that some of you really don’t seem to understand the UCC. Disagreeing with one’s pastor is not only common, it is to be expected.
This is not your conservative Christian megachurch here (and even in those places, you have wide disagreement with pastors, note the fate of one Terry Fox).
Obama is a Fraud.
Obama’s Pastor makes that clear.
Think about it: Obama is running as the “candidate of hope” — Obama wrote a book called “The Audacity of Hope” — and Obama’s “mentor” — Obama’s inspiration for this book?
None other than the race baiting bigotted Pastor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM
I was hopeful that Obama would truly be DIFFERENT than Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton, who are nothing but race hustlers and bigots, themselves.
I was hopeful that Obama’s rise would prove to other Blacks that they did not have to look to race hustlers and hate mongers like Farakhan to further their cause.
It appears that Obama joined the Rev. Wrights Congregation to establish his own “Blackness” — to give him the “cred” he thought he needed in politics.
In that case, Obama is an opportunist, for not telling this Pastor he was wrong.
In that case, Obama is a fraud and a charleton, for projecting the fake aura of someone who can, somehow, “transcend the racial divide” —
In that case, Obama is a coward, unwilling to “speak truth to power” when he had the chance.
Obama was MARRIED in this bigot’s church.
The Obama’s children were baptized by this bigot.
The Obama’s have contributed at least $22,000.00 to this church.
Pastor Wright holds an official position in the Obama campaign.
Obama is a fraud.
It is over.
DON’T LOOK AT THE VIDEO OF REV WRIGHT!
Ignore that man behind the curtain!
Just read snopes.com or democratunderground.com that is all you need to read.
Ummm folks… one comment, and then I am not saying anything more on this subject… But, get real — People do not join churches because of who is preaching in the Pulpit… Pastors come and go… The Church remains in ministry…. Trinity Church, Chicago, has been there a LOT longer than Rev. Wright!! And it will continue to be there long after Rev. Wright retires, and moves on out of ministry into his retirement… And those members will STILL be members at Trinity Church!!
That is as it should be…. Nuff said…
If Obama disagrees with Pastor Wright on certain issues, then that is surely the normal thing to see in churches… NOT the exception…
There were MANY Pastors who served the Church where my parents were members for more than 60 years… They didnt agree with everything said by those many pastors… But they remained faithful members of the Parish… People who leave a church every time they disagree with a Pastor are known in the “biz” as Church Hoppers… They are not well received much of anywhere… They are usually trouble makers… So, for Obama to be a member of Trinity Church for 20 years… is a commendable thing… And when he disagrees with his Pastor on some things, so much the better… That is one sign of church growth!!
Ok, Nuff said… I am outta here!! Time is now 3:13 p.m. Friday
“Obviously not McCreepy, who seems to want to play the Obama is a secret Muslim card, even though that has been debunked over and over again.”
No, he just wants to be noticed. And everyone was doing a good job of ignoring him until…well…
He’s a troll. He is doing what trolls do.
Re: Regular
DNFTT
Here’s a nice little quote from Opinion Line today.
“I’ve been a lifelong Democrat, and I will vote for neither a black man nor a woman. I’ve seen what power can do to them. It goes to their head. They get completely out of control.”
And there is not a chance in Hell that this person is a Democrat now, or ever has been.
“Pastor Wright holds an official position in the Obama campaign.”
What official position?
The obituary posting pastor speaks again as a Christian Pastor expert.
nuff said
“There’s a basic difference between fundamentalists (of any religion) and those of us who go to church to hear questions rather than answers.”
—————
Monkeyhawk, so you don’t think that God has blessed this country? Fine. But “genius”, you attack me for saying that He has. How do you know He hasn’t? Hmmm…?
Personally, I thank God I live in free country where we can achieve based on our efforts and worship as we wish. I like most conservatives, look on the positive side while you, like most liberals, look for things to bitch about.
I’m thankful too that I can go to the Lord and find answers in His Word, while you say you go and get only more questions.
Monkeyhawk, you’re getting gypped.
“I was hopeful that Obama would truly be DIFFERENT than Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton, who are nothing but race hustlers and bigots, themselves.
“I was hopeful that Obama’s rise would prove to other Blacks that they did not have to look to race hustlers and hate mongers like Farakhan to further their cause.
“It appears that Obama joined the Rev. Wrights Congregation to establish his own ‘Blackness’ — to give him the ‘cred’ he thought he needed in politics.”
Shill. Take what Wright says and say it equals Barack Obama.
You are the poster child for Harry Frankfurt’s definition of bullsh*t (or Colbert’s definition of “truthiness”). Say what you want to believe, regardless of whether it is true.
WS
Pastor Wright is in charge of “religious outreach” for the Obama campaign.
It isn’t just God damned America first of all. It is repeated attacks against whites and against white society, or what he views as white society. Its wrong.
It wasn’t just one sermon, and the man was/or still is on one of Obama’s campaign committees. Obama chose to go to the church, support the church financially, and spiritually, and have this man be very much an important part of his life.
If expecting the same respect for all colors, races, ethnic groups, etc is racist, then I guess we’ll just have to be racist.
Slate:
“Barack Obama’s pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright—who married the candidate, baptized both of his children, and who serves on his African-American Religious Leadership Committee”
http://www.slate.com/id/2186599/
Nathan… last comment… Rev. Wright’s phrase of “God Damn America” is used within a context of the flow of a Sermon…. In order to see HOW it fits in, one needs to listen to the entire Sermon…. and see how he balances the one phrase over against the OTHER more likeable phraise, “God Bless America” —
Yes, Nathan, it is a STYLE of Black Preaching in America…. I have not debunked or otherwise put down any STYLE or FORMAT of Fundamentalist/Pentecostal preaching on this Blog… I may disagree with the Fundamentalist/Pentecostal THEOLOGY…. but I will not argue about preaching STYLES and FORMATS…
That is what I said earlier, and I stand on that… You can surely scroll up thread and find where I said that before…
NOW, that said, I am off of this thread…. it has already gotten WAY out of hand….
Walking on by… Nothing more to see here!!
Oh yeah, and HIV was invented to wipe out the black race.
Thats one from his sermons too.
Jeesh, is there no end to number of crazies in the world?
ks agnostic
What I said is the truth.
And it really really hurts, doesn’t it?
Correction Econ — PASTORS do not baptize anybody — The Church baptizes the children… The Pastor is the Celebrant for the Sacrament… Got that??
“And there is not a chance in Hell that this person is a Democrat now, or ever has been.”
Sure there is. There are lots of ex-Democrats in the south still. They now form the basis of the Republican party’s current strength in the south, of course, but they were democrats.
Chas,
This is not some small difference of opinion.
And even you know that most denominations have a basic doctrine which still must be adhered to.
Church Hoppers are not people who simply disagree with the Pastor either.
Church Hoppers are people who like the attention they get when they are new members at a church and/or get bored with the activities or the church in general.
I have never heard someone called a Church Hopper because they didn’t agree with the doctrine or teachings of a Pastor.
I call those people responsible.
Sheep are people that sit there and will listen to anything even when they know it is wrong.
Chas,
Perhaps that is what you teach your sheep? That they must be good loyal sheep even though you are not a Christian?
“ks agnostic
“What I said is the truth.
“And it really really hurts, doesn’t it?”
Dude, it has been very obvious for a long time that you are one of those people who create their own reality.
The part of the over the top post of yours I posted is so you. You write without regard to what is true or what is false. To you, your political beliefs equal the truth.
That’s what makes you such a transparent shill.
I stand by what I said.
Any bets on how many more comments Chas will make on this thread?
Of course people join the church because of the pastor! I for one have been looking for a pastor that moves me spiritually for years. It is obvious to me that this so-called ‘pastor’ is exactly what he appears to be. The fact that people are so blind they cannot see what is happening, and what will happen if he’s elected, is a testament to the stupidity of this nation.
Obama is a liar, plain and simple. He keeps using words like “change” and “hope” with no plan to back these statements. In the past, no matter what the color of his skin, this man would be run off the podium. You simply cannot spew this garbage without any solid evidence of how you are going to “change” this nation and remain credible. But, due to his race, he is not only still in the hunt, but winning the race. The media has not mentioned anything negative of him and is too quick to label those who do as racist or bigots. It’s a complete travesty and I hope the country isn’t thrown into chaos when he is elected.
These are sad times in America.
Couldn’t this news story and all the blog threads wait until AFTER the democratic nomination?
So what if Obama has a crazy minister he sees for one hour on Sunday?
Hillary has Bill 24-7 for Gods sake!
Chas
In my faith, the Priest observes the wedding.
The COUPLE perform the ceremony
However, if the Priest or Pastor does not “Baptize” what the hell did “John the Baptist” do?
You are being silly, and you are avoiding the point.
“Do you reject Satan?” Parents: “Yes”
“And all his works” Parents: “Yes”
“And all of his empty promises? Parents: “yes”
It is the Pastor asking the questions, and it is the Parents and God Parents speaking on behalf of the child.
PEDANTIC = Chas
You try to prove how smart you are, all the time, withour really proving much of anything.
Rossell, I visited the Obama website and could not find a listing for Pastor Wright regarding “religious outreach.”
Perhaps you can enlighten all of us.
The UCC is a non-creedal, non-doctrinal denomination… It is a Covenantal denomination… And, yes, Nathan, MANY people will support a CHURCH while not supporting a particular Pastor, because the work of the Church has been around before the Pastor they disagree with, and will be around a long time after the Pastor is gone!!
Now, maybe your denomination is different… But that doesnt make yours RIGHT and those who do things different than yours WRONG!! Some day, I hope, you will understand that!!
Behold the Beast shall lead them onto the Destruction of Israel. The Ten Kingdoms shall reign destruction upon them.
CHANGE…
I bet we will start getting posts from : . or Sugar instead of Chas…
Lets see if I have Obamas schtick down….
I disagree with this pastor……so I stay in the church for 20 years. And expose my children to this racist swill. And apparently my wife swallows it all to. Since she is just now happy to be American…I guess that 350,000 dollar per year job the American gave her did not make her happy. yikes…must be a gold plated pussywillow to.
Chas said, “I refuse to lift ANY nation… or the flag ANY nation… above the Cross….”
———————————–
He knows what’s in our hearts and souls and I think maybe He might be really disappointed fairly often.
Wonder what it says to Him when he hears stuff like, we have to leave the word God in a pledge or on a building because it’s what makes us great? What if He doesn’t WANT His name on our money and in our national pledge?
I’m not into symbolism very much. I’m not into making judgments of others life journeys. What needs to concern me is inside me. He and I are still working on that. I’m thinking it’s a life-long endeavor. He is up to the task, hope I can be.
ksagnostic’s tap dancing defense of Obama even with all if his unattractive endorsers/mentors is predictable of the sheeple flock.
No one expected hypnotized Obama supporters to look at Obama and his closely affiliated inflamers with the same level of objectivity with which they seek to assail those on the right.
But the rest of the nation will.
Chas,
The truth of the matter is that his congregation agrees with him.
I don’t doubt that. Any other congregation would be outraged by comments like that and they would demand his removal or resignation.
Denominational or not, I am pretty sure this pastor serves only at the pleasure of the Church.
So he will be there for as long as they want him or as long as he want’s to be.
Either way, this all has nothing to do with his comments being wrong.
The fact that you can’t see that or won’t admit it is why you are no Christian.
WS
Slate is hardly a right wing rag.
http://www.slate.com/id/2186599/
I posted the link earlier, but you must have missed it.
Econ, I SAID the Pastor is the Celebrant for the Sacrament… which is exactly what you just said… As for John the Baptist, check out the Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible article, on John the Baptist, and you will see how Baptisms were conducted in his day… Definitely not how we do them now…
I dont know what a wedding has to do with a baptism, but yes, the Officiant, or Celebrant, observes the Ceremony, and then blesses the marriage on behalf of the CHURCH….
Same thing with Baptism… The CHURCH is baptizing the individuals… The Clergy act as Officiant/Celebrant/Presider(in case of a Bishop)….
Now, dont YOU be telling me what i already know, and have been doing for 30+ years!! OK??? YOUR priest would not disagree with me either!!
Chas. is very correct about one thing.
It is very apparent that some of you really do not understand the UCC religious approach. The minister does not have the sort of presumed authority that more conservative or traditional denominations assume for their ministers.
That being said, TUCC is hardly a traditional UCC denomination, but from reading Obama’s own book (you know, the one that Wright is supposed to have been so influential on) it is apparent that Obama has his own views even in contrast to what I have seen and heard of Wright’s comments. That would support the idea that the relationship between Obama and his pastor is along the lines of typical relationships between UCC ministers and congregants (where a congregate comes up to a minister and is as likely to say something like, “Interesting sermon, but I really disagreed with this one.” as anything else.
Is this the Religious Blog?
Why not ask the WEBLOG for a permanent Religious thread Chas could pontificate on and then only come back to the regular blogs when he wanted to post his name-calling, put downs, and generally sinful posts.
And there goes Nathan AGAIN…. I disagree with Nathan, so I am not a Christian!!!
You know, Nathan, I am so happy to see that GOD Died, and left YOU in charge!!
My being a Christian has nothing to do with whether I agree with YOU, or with Dr. Wright, or anybody else!! So get off of your stupid religious one trick pony, and get your feet on solid ground for a change!!
You might make history!!
AmWay — actually, this IS a religious thread, in case you missed it!! LOL
Chas,
It is the fact that you believe worshipping false idols is ok that makes you no Christian and that you even encourage it!
am so happy to see that GOD Died, and left YOU in charge!!
Now wait justa cottin pickin’ minute here. If Jesus Christ is God, and God died, who was watching the chicken coup?
Nathan, WHY do you have to resort to LYING??? I donbt believe in worshipping false idols!! Where on earth do you get such fantasies???
Thats what I want to know, AmWay!! LOL
Oh sorry. By golly they gave you a religious thread.
Pontificate away!
(but you can’t sin on this thread….)
“ksagnostic’s tap dancing defense of Obama even with all if his unattractive endorsers/mentors is predictable of the sheeple flock.
“No one expected hypnotized Obama supporters to look at Obama and his closely affiliated inflamers with the same level of objectivity with which they seek to assail those on the right.
“But the rest of the nation will.”
Of course, you are a model of objectivity.
BTW, I stand by what I have said about you earlier. You are one of the unattractive types who have inspired foul weather voters to turn out to throw people like Phill Kline or the latest right wing Christian state school board members out of office.
This is the drivel that resulted in my response to you.
“Awe shucks, just another preacher spout’n off hate. Nothing to get all worked up about. After all, Obama is not a Muslim, he is a ‘christian’ just like Wright (and Phelps)! Obama and his wife love America! Obama is so darned proud that he wears the American flag on his lapel. Oh nevermind…scratch that.”
Real trifecta of innuendo here.
1) Obama’s not a Muslim in the contect of
2) He is a “Christian” with intentional quotation marks
3) He didn’t wear a flag pin. How unpatriotic.
Go crawl back under your rock. You really don’t seem to get that your swill is as unattractive as Wright’s.
And another thing, since this is the religious thread. I’m always had a problem with math, but I can count up to three purty good.
So, Jesus supposedly was dead for three days and three nights.
I mean if Christ was crucified on Good Friday,
if he got up on Sunday morning (in time for the Easter Bunny), aren’t we coming up short?
Ahhh but AmWay… ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God!! Remember that!! GOD is greater than sin!!
Yes, AmWay… we do come up short on that one… That is why you add Friday + Saturday + Sunday = 3 days!! Use Jewish time… not Western American Time… ok??
gimmee three nights.
And I always wanted to know… What Century was it when Bunny’s started to lay eggs??? ROFL!!
Just like Jonah in the whale.
Cant have three nights… all it says is 3 days… And another wrinkle??? Very Early on the First Day (Jewish Time) would be shortly after Sundown, on Sat. nite… :-)
Jewish day starts at night. Yep.
Christ was supposedly crucified on Friday afternoon.
Friday PM (day 1)
Saturday PM (day 2)
Sunday PM (day 3)
Rise and shine Monday morning!
Chas,
I didn’t say that “you” worship false idols.
I sais that you think worshiping false idols is ok and encourage it.
You do it everynight with your blessing. And when we have questioned you on it, you even said it was ok to worship false idols.
Gotta have the three nights or the bible is not correct. It says Jonah was in the belly of the whale three days and NIGHTS, so shall the saviour, blah, blah, blah.
ALSO — What were the WOMEN doing going to the tomb, to prepare the body for burial??? WOMEN werent allowed to do such a thing then!!
MANY Questions…. Only FAITH has the answers!!
Anyway, vote OBAMA democrats!
He is the man.
Anything ANYthing, but Hillary and her satan husband Bill! Bill is the REAL sinner here.
Didn’t Falwell and Pat Robertson basically say the same thing. And politicians trip over themselves all the time to speak at places like Bob Jones Unv. Personally I find most religious leaders at best jokes and worst offensives.
Exactly Tom Paine.
Nathan, I can take no responsibility for your lack of reading comprehension, or your levels of understanding… I dont believe in worshipping false idols…
I also dont believe in telling somebody else NOT of my faith, what God/Gods they can believe in…
Now, maybe some day you will GET that… I am not holding my breath in anticipation, however…
Yeah, Chas faith.
It’s those HIGH hopes,
High apple pie in the sky hopes.
So any time your gettin low stead of lettin go Just remember that ant …
Oops there goes another billion kilowatt dam!
Wow.What a bunchof BS. The facts are that Wright said some things that were quite controversial, preaching style disregarded. The facts is that OBAMA has claimed Wright to be his spiritual leader.
FOr 20 years. The fact is that while an individual may not and probably will not, agree with everthything the pastor says, regardless of his denominatin, if he finds it offensive, he should either (1) mount a drive to remove the pastor or failing that, remove himself from the teaching. He or She should not let the children be indoctrinated in such. The fact is that Repubican candidates ad officials have gotten plenty of flak from others about their religion, their spiritual mentors, and even visiting the canpus of some religius leaders. Obama gets the same treatment and howls of protest.
Just showing your own colors and prejudices. Same thing you claim the republicans and the rr, and the conservatives, and the…. and on and on.
And the beat goes on SSDD.
The reality, I don;t know why Obama stayed under such teaching. I don;t even know how really bad it was on a general basis. Really, I don’t even care that much. I very much doubt that Obama has the same viwpoints. I do think he needs, if he has any hopes of election, to address the questions. They are fairly valid quesitons, as evidenced on this board from time to time about Robertson, Romney, and on and on
Chas even with a broken right wing I couldn’t resist responding:
Ministers and Priests alike in most religions say: “I baptize you in the name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.”
Good to see that you are still out there waving your ignorance for all to see.
Oh, and the comment abot Democrats never saying such things? Bullshit. You know better. WE all know better. There are idiots of ALL persuasions.
Chas,
So, for the record:
If someone is worshiping anything other than Jesus then they are worshiping a false idol?
Is faith in Jesus the only way to salvation, and if He is not, what other ways are there then?
“There are idiots of ALL persuasions.”
I’ve not read a truer statement! We who post here prove that daily!
Didn’t the founders of our country fight a war against oppression of all kinds, including religion? Wasn’t our country founded on each individual having the freedom to worship as they choose?
Linda,
Of course. Doesn’t make it socially acceptable or wanted though.
It is what I want as an American. I find it socially acceptable to allow each person that right along with others.
“I very much doubt that Obama has the same viwpoints. I do think he needs, if he has any hopes of election, to address the questions.”
For the record I agree with you on that littlejohn (with the rest of your post, not so much). Again, the UCC (and other more theologically liberal denominations) really do have a different relationship with their pastors than more theologically conservative denominations-and I would agree this is an oversimplification). But, people only know what they have experienced. Obama is going to have to publically be very clear on where he disagrees with Wright, and also needs to be very clear once again that he isn’t really responsible for what other people say and think, even if they are his declared supporters. This is a true test for the Obama candidacy.
Linda,
Let me clarify. It doesn’t make what one believes socially acceptable, agreeable, or wanted.
They are free to believe it, just as we are free to disagree with them.
We offer this as one of the more stunning examples of completely out of control Clinton derangment syndrome (AKA CDS):
“Anything ANYthing, but Hillary and her satan husband Bill!”
As far back as Feb snopes was proved to be bias in their slant. MM is a little slow to respond and the WE is still in the dark.
02/22/08
Obama and the Trinity United Church of Christ - And Snopes.com
Filed under: Truth — C.H. Truth @ 08:32:09 am
If you haven’t heard the buzz about Obama and the Trinity United Church of Christ… no doubt you will. Apparently the Chicago based church that Obama goes to has caused some controversy in the past and may become a thorn in the presumptive Democratic Nominees side as things move forward.
I spent a bit of time googling and researching the Trinity United Church of Christ or TUCC if you will. One of the first sites that came up other than the TUCC site itself was Snopes.com the “urban legend” reference site. I have become increasingly skeptical of Snopes.com when it comes to political questions and I think this one finally put me over the edge. But let’s back up here for a second.
The issue of the Church has been brought up on some of the Cable News Channels, including Tucker Carlson on MSNBC and Hannity and Colmes on FOX News. The concern for some is that Obama is a member of a church who’s mission is to promote the Black Community, has a “non-negotiable commitment to Africa”, and pushes a “Black Value Plan”. The point was also brought up that the Church gave an award to the controversial Louis Farrakhan in 2007. All of which is 100% true.
But Snopes.com uses completely different criteria for their question when they determine that talk of the Church is an urban legend. They ask and answer a completely different question:
Claim: Illinois Senator Barack Obama is a racist whose church has a “non-negotiable commitment to Africa” that is covertly Muslim and excludes non-blacks.
Status: False
Hmmm… this is actually quite the straw man way to ask the question, now isn’t it? In fact, until I went to the snope.com site, I had never heard anyone suggest that the church was covertly Muslim or that any of it proved that Obama himself is a racist.
But if you concentrate on the meat and potatoes… the line about a non-negotiable commitment to Africa is in quotes because it is taken from the Trinity Church 10 point vision. Further more, the first line in their “About us” page reads:
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian…
Now they may not technically “exclude” non-whites… but the Church itselfs claims to be a Black (I thought it was African-American again?) congregation. I don’t think that the mission statement makes me want to join up.
The reality here is that Snopes.com is simply not being honest. If they took the mainstream questions about whether or not Senator Obama is a member of an Church which is unashamedly black and recently gave an award to Louis Farrakhan then the answer would be be True.
http://www.coldheartedtruth.com/index.php/main/2008/02/22/obama_and_the_trinity_united_church_of_c
I’m not a good judge, I haven’t had much practice. There is waaaay too much in my life that needs to be improved to turn my efforts toward others. I see differences in disagreeing and making judgments.
“Obama is going to have to publically be very clear on where he disagrees with Wright, and also needs to be very clear once again that he isn’t really responsible for what other people say and think, even if they are his declared supporters. ”
And on this we agree. I do not think that each candidate has to be held responsible for the every saying of every declared supporter. My reasoning is different: By staying under the mans’ teaching,and declaring him his spiritual advisior, Obama appears to be supporting Wright, and that is a valid question as to how far he supports Wright. The second point was the hypocrisy of the WEBLOG, when Republican candidates are villified by what religion they follow (Romney for one) and who went to whose campus and spoke. Surely one or two visits, or even a dozen, do not equal the same allegiance as 20 years of following one’s identified spiritual advisior.
I don’t care what snopes.com says. The fact that he even sits in on sermons from this idiot is enough to NOT VOTE FOR HIM alone!
Didn’t your momma tell you that if you run around with certain people you start acting like them?
And once again, I am supporting Obama for the general election.
“Wasn’t our country founded on each individual having the freedom to worship as they choose?”
Of course, Linda, you are exactly correct. The same right as others have to make a decision about electing someone who has endorsed this pastor for 20 years.
Look at the outrage by the Democrats, Liberals, and African American community when Trent Lott said what he did about Strom Thurmand.
Now all of a sudden being associated with someone is ok no matter what they say because as long as you didn’t say it that is ok…
Obama calls this man a mentor, has him as his spiritual advisor, wrote a book crediting him, and even attended his church for 20 years.
But we are supposed to ignore all that because it is not Obama who said those things.
Hypocrites, all of them.
“Go crawl back under your rock. You [rfl] really don’t seem to get that your swill is as unattractive as Wright’s.”
-ksagnostic
ksagnostic does not find my “swill” attractive.
Hmmm, I thin