The attack dogs have been trying for months to smear Barack Obama based on statements made by his Chicago pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. A video clip going viral on the Internet may finally do the trick. It shows Wright giving an inflammatory sermon in which he says America invited the Sept. 11 attacks and says “God damn America†for its treatment of blacks. And he says, “Hillary Clinton has never been called a nigger.â€
It’s explosive stuff. And Fox News and others are all over it.
Obama has said before that he disagrees with Wright on Sept. 11 and other subjects, but he will need to do more to explain his relationship with Wright and repudiate some of the pastor’s views, or this could be a big issue in the general election and strike at the heart of Obama’s electability claims.
FYI: Here is a snopes.com analysis of some of the e-mail claims about Obama’s pastor and church.
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Chas on Open thread 11/22
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/22
- Boxlock20 on Open thread 11/22
- satatom on Open thread 11/22
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- DavidB on Health care reform would save state money
- DavidB on Minority status in Senate; majority approval at home
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/22
319 Comments
smear
If people who went to church agreed with everything the church leader believed then no Catholics in America would be using contraception. The media is scraping the bottom of the barrel for controversy again. Some days I can’t tell the difference between the main stream media and the National Enquirer.
IF Hillary is responsible for what Ferraro says, Obama must also be responsible for what his pastor says.
Or, maybe we could all agree to personal responsibility and expect the same from other adults.
As I posted on another thread –
I’ve heard a dozen or more Christian sermons that juxtaposed the terms “God bless America” and “God damn America,” mostly within the context of how we as individuals don’t live up to our promises and we as a nation don’t live up to our principles. “Equality under the law,” for instance. “All men are created equal,” and that stuff.
There’s a basic difference between fundamentalists (of any religion) and those of us who go to church to hear questions rather than answers.
The fundie preacher claims “every answer is in the Bible,” while more enlightened theologians realize that life and faith and “God” are all questions we mere mortals will never understand.
If “God” knows everything about the human condition, humans cannot possibly grasp the ramifications. If “God” doesn’t, He does’t meet the job requirements.
Fundamentalist Christians (and Muslims, and Jews, and every other religion in the world) play to the crowd and claim they speak for “God.” They supplant “God” and claim *they* have the asnwers. The only rational approach to religion is to seek a relationship with “God-ness” by asking questions. Questions such as, “Why do bad things happen to good people?” and “What is justice?” and “What is ‘evil?’” and “How can we mere mortals deal with (even, perhaps, overcome) evil?”
I’m sure there’s some sort of smug comfort for those who think they’ve founr *the* answer, who are “saved” (though they never say what they’re saved for, who have been convinced that *THEY* have the answers and all of us who don’t worship their way are somehow less worthy.
I don’t think the Catholic Church is a “whore,” and I doubt the $cientologists have a much better grasp on universal truth than Marshall Applewhite. Or the Pope. Or John Hagee. Or the Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
But I tend to gravitate toward theologies that ask questions rather than proclaim answers. Aren’t *answers,* after all, “God’s” job?
God is bigger than you. God is bigger than your church. God isn’t limited by a brain made out of meat. God’s pretty much got it all to Himself.
If God considers economic injustice, racial hatred, lust, sloth, and all those things that contribute to what “America” is, why would He deign to *bless* us?
Would that we had an America worthy of God’s blessing.
http://foxattacks.com/virus?utm_source=rgemail
I agree that this pastor’s words are no different than those of Robertson or Falwell, both who had great influence on the current administration.
The difference, is that there are a whole lot of (especially older) white people who are afraid that electing a black man will create an environment where blacks will ‘take over’ and demand we whiteys pay them back for racism and slavery.
I don’t believe that, but my father does. Iasked him to leave the democratic party awhile back for his racist views too. But it’s there.
In response to “lindainks55,” who posted –
“IF Hillary is responsible for what Ferraro says, Obama must also be responsible for what his pastor says.”
Eh? Not so much.
In 1984, Geraldine Ferraro’s vice-presidential nomination seemd like a desperate Hail Mary (Hail, Jerry?) play by the Mondale campaign. Reagan was wrong in the long run but was still running on myths and nostalgia and had re-election wrapped up. Ferraro-as-veep-nominee was due exclusively because she is a female.
Ferraro’s recent media frenzy has been designed to play the race card. And, frankly, the gender card.
There’s an old rule I remember from my days as a polirical activist:
Attack that which cannot be defended. Defend that which has not been attacked.”
“Would that we had an America worthy of God’s blessing.”
———
Fortunately Monkeyhawk, God has blessed this country in spite of our unworthiness. But unfortunately for Obama, a lot of people are going to tie him to this inflammatory racist preacher who G–D–’s America. And really, it is not unfair to to do so, since he attended his church for 20 years and considers his a mentor.
Barrack Obama along with his America hating wife and their America hating, racist preacher who HATE America and white people are NOT what America needs! VOTE FOR HILLARY!! Before it is too late. THIS is an OUTRAGE.
Obama’s Mentor –> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM
“outlander” offers –
“God has blessed this country in spite of our unworthiness.”
And you know this… how?
Did God tell you that?
Or do you admit that America is unworthy of His blessing?
If the latter, then America’s gotta lot to live up to. If the former, you’re the Prophet we’ve all been waiting for.
But … but … I thought the story was that HUSSEIN was a Muslim?
/sarcasm off
Dr. Wright’s language is NOT offensive in a Black congregation… In a white congregation, probably it is… Are Church members required to agree with their Pastor on everything?? Hogwash! Of course not. In the United Church of Christ, if enough members disagree with the Pastor, the Church asks for his resignation. The Pastor has no control over individual members. Pastors are called with “freedom of the pulpit” meaning that the Church Board, or Congregation cannot dictate to the Pastor WHAT he/she will preach in Sunday sermons. Many people maintain membership in a congregation where they dont always agree with the Pastor, because they know full well that they will be there a lot longer than the Pastor will be there!!
Nuff said…
“IF Hillary is responsible for what Ferraro says, Obama must also be responsible for what his pastor says.
“Or, maybe we could all agree to personal responsibility and expect the same from other adults.”
Or, candidates are not responsible for the stupid things a declared supporter says in his/her support of them. Like I said on another thread, Hillary Clinton should not be held responsible for Ferraro’s comments, and Barack Obama should not be held responsible for Wright’s comments.
A lot of people do seem to misunderstand Wright and the historical contexts of much of what he says(the historical and cultural bias against African Americans is well supported both by, well, history and current behavioral and anthropological/social research). That being said, Wright can also be something of a loose cannon. Also, I have to wonder if Wright’s contrasting comments about Hillary Clinton verses Barack Obama was made in the context of a church service, in his role as minister (as it certainly seems to have been). He was definitely flirting with TUCC’s tax exempt status if he was.
Yeah, the swearing ceremony for Obama, would include , three M..F__ing’s, couple of G.D.’s, some KKK Whitey references and of course the every popular oppressed Palestinian and South America mantra of “we are the world’s victims.”
Glory! Glory! Can I get an Amen!
Glory!
Ghost of Mohammed Atta: See Khalid, I told you Barak could do it. All?hu Akbar! Glory!
Re: Hillary all the way…
DNFTRT
KsAgn says “He was definitely flirting with TUCC’s tax exempt status if he was.”
Yes, I would definitely agree with that, KsAgn… He is walking a fine line… And IF I know some of those leaders like I think I do, he will be warned to NOT do that from the Pulpit… He can freely express his personal political views, but NOT to the comparison/contrast of two candidates for office… even in the Primary Season…
Re: Regular
DNFTT
Chas,
So you think saying God Damn America the way that Pastor did was just fine?
“Hillary All the Way!!!!” offers –
“Barrack Obama along with his America hating wife and their America hating, racist preacher who HATE America and white people are NOT what America needs! VOTE FOR HILLARY!! Before it is too late. THIS is an OUTRAGE.”
Welcome to this forum, “Hillary All the Way!!!!”
It’s always refreshing to hear a new and unique voice on these kinds of forums (fora?) who aren’t sock puppets.
Seems like the Cons aren’t really trying anymore.
Nathan, depending on the context, yes… As a blanket statement, of course not…
Chas,
Under what context do you think it is ok to Damn anyone or proclaim that God Damn someone?
Monkey”boy”
“Welcome to this forum, “Hillary All the Way!!!!”
Hillary All the Way is JR. At least that’s my guess. I’d betcha a beer on it.
And before you get off on a tangent, I am NOT going to argue the styles/formats of Black Preachers in America… Mainly, because neither one of us is qualified to do so!!
Nathan, did you chastize Fox, Falwell, and Robertson for saying practically the same thing?
Oh that was because of gays, my bad. It’s only ok when God damns America for gays, not racism. I got it.
No, JR wouldn’t be HATW. Whoever posted that is certainly not a Hillary supporter. I’ll bet it’s AmWay.
No flag lapel-wearing , U.S. “KKK” of A. Hussein Obama will have the Secret Service wearing traditional Somali garb and carrying the ‘preferred weapon of our enemy’ – the AK47.*
*Heart Break Ridge.
The difference between Ferraro, Shaheen (sic) and Penn, etc, and Wright and Donnie McHater is that the former WORKED for the Clinton campaign and the latter did not work for Obama.
There is a large difference.
Nathan, in the same context as King David was ostracized by the Prophet, when he sent Uriah to the front lines of battle to be killed… The Prophet got David to issue a statement of damnation over the “bad guy” in his parable, and then said, “David, YOU are that man!” There IS a time and place for such rhetoric… IN its appropriate context… The Cross has been around a LOT longer than the Flag!! Please try to remember that… ok??
Sure has been a long campaign season and there are sooo many months of this to go.
Basketball is calling my name. It’s more interesting than the latest bright and shiny object dangled to keep us from paying attention to what really needs our attention…
Political Mama,
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe those types simply said they thought God was punishing us, they were not proclaiming that God should punish us, or damn us for that matter.
There is a huge difference in saying you think or believe we are being punished and proclaiming that God should damn us or anyone.
Then again, I never pay any attention to those guys anyway.
You would have to refresh me with what they said.
Did Obama ever clarify his statement? Does Obama think he is God?
“We’re going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.”
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/08/obama.faith/index.html
I’m reserving judgment myself. I haven’t seen the full video yet–caustic sloganeering aside, I want see the man’s reasoning–was it some kind of loony “God’s revenge” thing (ala Falwell), or was he actually talking about American policy in the region? Granted, even the latter wouldn’t justify such indiscriminate brutality–nothing could–but it’s at least closer to a rational argument.
I think it would be good, regardless of what was said, to look a little deeper (calmly and carefully, thanks!) into this man’s relationship with his pastor (don’t cringe, Obama supporters–remember, turnabout is fair play, and remember Bob Jones University! :) ).
Boy, its been a long time since Ive heard a good old time Racist all fired up.
Now imagine the headlines from the WE and other MSM if Fallwell or Robertson had come up with this shit.
It would be an outrage….heh.
But of course he is black….so apparently Ferraro was right. Both for Obama and for this assclown.
Poor ol’ “Nathan” asks –
“So you think saying God Damn America the way that Pastor did was just fine?”
Yeah, pretty much.
It’s a lot like your preacher telling you you are damned if you don’t walk up to the altar and get dunked in the baptismal font.
Like it or not (and you, obviously like it) America has done a lot of things that aren’t really worth God’s “blessing.”
Linda — What Network is Basketball on today??
Chas,
You will have to quote me the verse where anyone was “damned.”
I am familiar with the story, but don’t recall any such thing.
Then, go look it up!!
What If a Republican Called, Like Obama, for God’s ‘Kingdom on Earth’?
By Mark Finkelstein | October 8, 2007 – 08:20 ET
“This is Anne Jones, reporting live from the headquarters of the ACLU, where the organization has issued a ‘DEFCON 1 Threat-to-the-Constitution Alert’ in the wake of a Republican presidential candidate’s call for the creation of God’s ‘kingdom on earth.’ We’re speaking with ACLU representative Amanda Rogers. Ms. Rogers, now that a Republican candidate has brought the wall that separates church and state crashing to the ground, can our constitutional system be saved?”
“Anne, I’m afraid the answer is a resounding ‘no,’ at least, not if someone who thinks like this, and who sadly reflects the thinking of his entire party, is elected president. Fortunately, there are candidates from another party who respect the constitutionally decreed separaration of church and state.”
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/10/08/what-if-republican-obama-called-gods-kingdom-earth
Hamas and Hesbollah support Barak Hussein Obama, pledges campaign contribution and large crowds of Palestinians carry photo placards of the anointed one that will deliver them from the ‘White Devils’ and the ‘Great Satan’ of the West.
Chas,
You are the one who made the assertion, is it so hard for you to back it up without acting so indignant?
I just did review the story and I don’t see a verse saying what you are claiming.
Chas, I’[m watching ESPNU, but I think this same game is on other channels (like the local KSAS 4 / 24). We have a dish and calling out channels is nothing but confusing from here.
Plus, I’m practicing to be as good as my hubby and doing lots of button pushing and jumping between channels. I’m not as good as him and sometimes just get lost.
Chas.
Posted March 11, 2008 at 12:11 am | Permalink
This looks interesting >>>>
————————————————-
=================================================
The above post by Chas is perhaps the sickest most cruel post I have ever seen on ANY blog. It’s on yesterday’s Open (3/10), but I shall not repost the whole thing here.
BLOG EDITORS, I would hope you take note and take the appropriate action against Chas.
And Regular, I hope you take appropriate action too. My condolences on your loss, if indeed this is a factual, though totally inappropriate post from Chas.
Linda,
It is not so much about holding Obama “responsible” for what this Pastor said, as it is wondering what Obama has to say in regards to his association with this Pastor.
You are judged by the company you keep and if Obama agrees with the Pastor or doesn’t disagree then he will and should be lumped in with the Pastors comments.
Nathan,
Are you really surprised Chas would say it’s OK for a Pastor to say “God D*** America” in church or anywhere else?
CHANGE
Remember, it’s all about CHANGE.
(wink)
Max,
Of course I am not surprised. Chas is about as Christian as I am a Muslim.
I am simply curious to see how he justifies this Pastor.
Chas will defend anyone EXCEPT those who preach about Jesus and Salvation through him.
Amazing.
“Now imagine the headlines from the WE and other MSM if Fallwell or Robertson had come up with this shit.”
They have. Where were you?
Nathan, I am so sorry if you have read the story, and do not see the condemnation issued by the Prophet…. It is clearly spelled out in the story… I am not going to do your Bible research for you… You are quite capable of doing it for yourself…
And, as I said before, I am not going to argue with you about the various styles/formats of Black Preaching in America…
I may actually have to watch the Democrat party convention later this year. Things are shapin up real intresting like.
Water cannons anyone?
MAX — SHUT UP!!
So Rev. “G-D America” Wright and Rev. Fred “God Hates America” Phelps, seem to have a kindred agreement that God is against us. These guys have a personal link with God?
Awe shucks, just another preacher spout’n off hate. Nothing to get all worked up about. After all, Obama is not a Muslim, he is a “christian” just like Wright (and Phelps)! Obama and his wife love America! Obama is so darned proud that he wears the American flag on his lapel. Oh nevermind…scratch that.
Keep it up, Max.
You and those like you are the best thing Democrats have going.
Go into the toilet and sling the BM.
Lest anyone forget, this is the individual who claimed, in all apparent seriousness, that Chas. is demon possessed.
Ksagnostic,
And we all disagreed with what Falwell and Robertson said too.
They were publically chastised as well. However, as “similar” as their statements were, they were not calling for God to “damn America”.
Chas, I’m pretty sure someone pointed out yesterday that few people actually read the posts Max makes. She has gone to a new level of scroll over with this one, but you are not helping by thinking you need to make a response to the stupidity she posts! Ignore it, most of the rest of us are.
Ditto for rfl, the truly ugly face of the Christian Right.
Chas,
So you won’t say anything about the so called “Black Style” of preaching, but you have no problem telling me and others you veiw as “fundamentalists” how wrong we are.
You are a Hypocrite.
Say Chas, when are you posting the obituary of the day? That’s such a great service you perform.
Obama’s church gave Farrakhan an award – Looks like the pattern of hating America and supporting terrorist groups like Hamas and Hesbollah will be standard path for the Barak Hussein Obama campaign trail.
CHANGE…
I will say no more Linda… Ok??? :-)
Chas,
Looks like you have the regular chorus of non-Christians supporting you.
I wonder why that is?
Nathan, I havent said anything about the preaching style of Fundamentalists and/or Pentecostals either… And you wont find a reference to such… Cause, ummmm it aint there!!
Just waiting for :: to show up.
I wonder if will have to be facing east five times a day?
Salah…
CHANGE…
Whewwwww!!! This is a big sigh of relief!
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4452990&page=1
Sen. Barack Obama says he “obviously disagrees” with his pastor of 20 years who said black Americans should sing “God Damn America” instead of “God Bless America.”
Wow, Nathan, looks like you have the regular chorus of Wing Nuts supporting you… Wonder why that is?? ROFL!!! Too funny!!!
Obama is not responsible for what his pastor said – but he needs to distance himself.
Not only did Obama cite that same pastor as a “mentor” in his book, he also currently stands by the man who dares to damn America.
By itself, it’s not that big of a deal but when you consider that one of Obama’s advisers hints at the need to invade Israel, just after we’re done with the Pakistan invasion Obama talked about, and a frightening picture begins to emerge.
Obama’s pastor also upholds the terrorists in Palestine and denounces the Israel’s for defending their borders.
What’s Obama’s real agenda anyway?
“Ksagnostic,
“And we all disagreed with what Falwell and Robertson said too.
“They were publically chastised as well. However, as ’similar’ as their statements were, they were not calling for God to ‘damn America’.”
No, they just said God already did it, or at least willfully withdrew “protection” from the United States so that 9/11 could happen.
Right, God let 9/11 happen because of uppity gays and feminists. This is exactly the sort of slime that gets the CR in trouble.
As for Wright’s comments about 9/11, he is simply wrong. The Islamists dislike for the US has to do with their intolerance of other cultures, tied into and taking advantage of some legitimate colonial grievances against the west, but to be clear, that is NOT the Islamists beef with us, their beef with us is the same as their beef with 90% of the world, including most of the Islamic world, they don’t like the very existance of competing cultural and religious viewpoints.
#
Max
Posted March 14, 2008 at 1:57 pm | Permalink
Whewwwww!!! This is a big sigh of relief!
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4452990&page=1
Sen. Barack Obama says he “obviously disagrees” with his pastor of 20 years who said black Americans should sing “God Damn America” instead of “God Bless America.”
————————
Barak agreed before he disagreed…
CHANGE…
Are you kidding? Obama chose this church; he has been a member for 20 years. The pastor married him, baptized his children. You can not tell me this Pastor developed his views of the world overnight and it just so happened Obama never sat in the pews and heard these sermons.
What kind of judgment are you displaying if you maintain a relationship with a church and pastor with such radical views?
If we forget Obama for a moment and think about his young daughters, it’s okay for Obama’s children to be exposed to this kind of hate?
Do the Obama’s believe at some level that any of what this man says is true? Is that why Michelle Obama states in her speeches that “America is mean” and “I am proud of America for the first time in my life”? Have these views formed because of this Pastor?
Nathan — I refuse to lift ANY nation… or the flag ANY nation… above the Cross…. So, dont even start with me, ok???
And Hillary agreed to NOT count Michigan and Florida, before she disagreed.
Hillary’s getting her way on the MI/FL issue. Stealing the election will be finalized by the Superdelegates.
And of course more “News Releases” like this Rev Wright video.
But Susan, I suppose its totally OK for other peoples’ children to sit in church pews Sunday after Sunday, and be exposed to hatred of Gays week after week???
Chas,
Disagreeing with saying “God Damn America” has nothing to do with lifting any nation above the cross.
So… I never started with you… ok?
The point I made earlier is that you have no problem saying how wrong I am and how wrong those you consider “fundamentalists” to be either.
But when a Black preacher is out saying God Damn America over and over again, that is just his “style” and you are not going to say it is wrong.
You are a Hypocrite.
“In an interview with KTVQ television he added: “What I’m really focused on right now, because all that stuff is premature, is winning this nomination and changing the country,” he said.”
– BARAK HUSSEIN OBAMA
Salah…
CHANGE…
And here it is, the preview of what we can expect of Obama is the nominee from the nasty right wing of this country (the folks who think they are so right that anything goes, and who are so reflexive in their beliefs that they will believe every slander against a person of the enemy).
This mess is a test for Barack Obama. What he thinks, and what he has said, has been well documented (have any of these right wing clowns actually bothered to READ The Audacity of Hope (the book Wright is said too have influenced)? Probably not. And I can say in honesty that I disagree strongly with some of the things Obama said (ironically and tellingly, these were comments that someone like, say, Nathan would be more likely to agree with). He is going to have to continue to articulate his own beliefs and how he arrived at them. He is also going to have to specifically focus on and reject what he disagrees with Wright over.
And of course, as always, it is going to be almost impossible for Americas’ punditocracy (not necessarily the just the right wingers) to actually focus on which of this stuff is true and which of this stuff is absolute BS, but rather on how it affects a candidate’s chances. Political journalists do not do their damn JOBS.
Davis Merrit’s recent editorial in the Eagle was an excellent commentary on this subject.
How many of the right wing haters have even bothered to read to Snopes article?
Obviously not McCreepy, who seems to want to play the Obama is a secret Muslim card, even though that has been debunked over and over again.
Just for once, Republics, try using real facts in your arguments.
Not that it would matter much – none of the far right yahoos would be voting for Obama anyway – far too dark skinned for most of you.
Regular,
Deflection is the only defense Obama and his entranced supporters can use regarding the views of their church and their pastor.
Susan made a very good point about children in this church being exposed to such language. Great example for the children. Very acceptable to the Libs here.
The anti-American Libs see nothing wrong with Rev Wrights attacks on America.
Black Power!
You know, it is very clear that some of you really don’t seem to understand the UCC. Disagreeing with one’s pastor is not only common, it is to be expected.
This is not your conservative Christian megachurch here (and even in those places, you have wide disagreement with pastors, note the fate of one Terry Fox).
Obama is a Fraud.
Obama’s Pastor makes that clear.
Think about it: Obama is running as the “candidate of hope” — Obama wrote a book called “The Audacity of Hope” — and Obama’s “mentor” — Obama’s inspiration for this book?
None other than the race baiting bigotted Pastor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM
I was hopeful that Obama would truly be DIFFERENT than Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton, who are nothing but race hustlers and bigots, themselves.
I was hopeful that Obama’s rise would prove to other Blacks that they did not have to look to race hustlers and hate mongers like Farakhan to further their cause.
It appears that Obama joined the Rev. Wrights Congregation to establish his own “Blackness” — to give him the “cred” he thought he needed in politics.
In that case, Obama is an opportunist, for not telling this Pastor he was wrong.
In that case, Obama is a fraud and a charleton, for projecting the fake aura of someone who can, somehow, “transcend the racial divide” —
In that case, Obama is a coward, unwilling to “speak truth to power” when he had the chance.
Obama was MARRIED in this bigot’s church.
The Obama’s children were baptized by this bigot.
The Obama’s have contributed at least $22,000.00 to this church.
Pastor Wright holds an official position in the Obama campaign.
Obama is a fraud.
It is over.
DON’T LOOK AT THE VIDEO OF REV WRIGHT!
Ignore that man behind the curtain!
Just read snopes.com or democratunderground.com that is all you need to read.
Ummm folks… one comment, and then I am not saying anything more on this subject… But, get real — People do not join churches because of who is preaching in the Pulpit… Pastors come and go… The Church remains in ministry…. Trinity Church, Chicago, has been there a LOT longer than Rev. Wright!! And it will continue to be there long after Rev. Wright retires, and moves on out of ministry into his retirement… And those members will STILL be members at Trinity Church!!
That is as it should be…. Nuff said…
If Obama disagrees with Pastor Wright on certain issues, then that is surely the normal thing to see in churches… NOT the exception…
There were MANY Pastors who served the Church where my parents were members for more than 60 years… They didnt agree with everything said by those many pastors… But they remained faithful members of the Parish… People who leave a church every time they disagree with a Pastor are known in the “biz” as Church Hoppers… They are not well received much of anywhere… They are usually trouble makers… So, for Obama to be a member of Trinity Church for 20 years… is a commendable thing… And when he disagrees with his Pastor on some things, so much the better… That is one sign of church growth!!
Ok, Nuff said… I am outta here!! Time is now 3:13 p.m. Friday
“Obviously not McCreepy, who seems to want to play the Obama is a secret Muslim card, even though that has been debunked over and over again.”
No, he just wants to be noticed. And everyone was doing a good job of ignoring him until…well…
He’s a troll. He is doing what trolls do.
Re: Regular
DNFTT
Here’s a nice little quote from Opinion Line today.
“I’ve been a lifelong Democrat, and I will vote for neither a black man nor a woman. I’ve seen what power can do to them. It goes to their head. They get completely out of control.”
And there is not a chance in Hell that this person is a Democrat now, or ever has been.
“Pastor Wright holds an official position in the Obama campaign.”
What official position?
The obituary posting pastor speaks again as a Christian Pastor expert.
nuff said
“There’s a basic difference between fundamentalists (of any religion) and those of us who go to church to hear questions rather than answers.”
—————
Monkeyhawk, so you don’t think that God has blessed this country? Fine. But “genius”, you attack me for saying that He has. How do you know He hasn’t? Hmmm…?
Personally, I thank God I live in free country where we can achieve based on our efforts and worship as we wish. I like most conservatives, look on the positive side while you, like most liberals, look for things to bitch about.
I’m thankful too that I can go to the Lord and find answers in His Word, while you say you go and get only more questions.
Monkeyhawk, you’re getting gypped.
“I was hopeful that Obama would truly be DIFFERENT than Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton, who are nothing but race hustlers and bigots, themselves.
“I was hopeful that Obama’s rise would prove to other Blacks that they did not have to look to race hustlers and hate mongers like Farakhan to further their cause.
“It appears that Obama joined the Rev. Wrights Congregation to establish his own ‘Blackness’ — to give him the ‘cred’ he thought he needed in politics.”
Shill. Take what Wright says and say it equals Barack Obama.
You are the poster child for Harry Frankfurt’s definition of bullsh*t (or Colbert’s definition of “truthiness”). Say what you want to believe, regardless of whether it is true.
WS
Pastor Wright is in charge of “religious outreach” for the Obama campaign.
It isn’t just God damned America first of all. It is repeated attacks against whites and against white society, or what he views as white society. Its wrong.
It wasn’t just one sermon, and the man was/or still is on one of Obama’s campaign committees. Obama chose to go to the church, support the church financially, and spiritually, and have this man be very much an important part of his life.
If expecting the same respect for all colors, races, ethnic groups, etc is racist, then I guess we’ll just have to be racist.
Slate:
“Barack Obama’s pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright—who married the candidate, baptized both of his children, and who serves on his African-American Religious Leadership Committee”
http://www.slate.com/id/2186599/
Nathan… last comment… Rev. Wright’s phrase of “God Damn America” is used within a context of the flow of a Sermon…. In order to see HOW it fits in, one needs to listen to the entire Sermon…. and see how he balances the one phrase over against the OTHER more likeable phraise, “God Bless America” —
Yes, Nathan, it is a STYLE of Black Preaching in America…. I have not debunked or otherwise put down any STYLE or FORMAT of Fundamentalist/Pentecostal preaching on this Blog… I may disagree with the Fundamentalist/Pentecostal THEOLOGY…. but I will not argue about preaching STYLES and FORMATS…
That is what I said earlier, and I stand on that… You can surely scroll up thread and find where I said that before…
NOW, that said, I am off of this thread…. it has already gotten WAY out of hand….
Walking on by… Nothing more to see here!!
Oh yeah, and HIV was invented to wipe out the black race.
Thats one from his sermons too.
Jeesh, is there no end to number of crazies in the world?
ks agnostic
What I said is the truth.
And it really really hurts, doesn’t it?
Correction Econ — PASTORS do not baptize anybody — The Church baptizes the children… The Pastor is the Celebrant for the Sacrament… Got that??
“And there is not a chance in Hell that this person is a Democrat now, or ever has been.”
Sure there is. There are lots of ex-Democrats in the south still. They now form the basis of the Republican party’s current strength in the south, of course, but they were democrats.
Chas,
This is not some small difference of opinion.
And even you know that most denominations have a basic doctrine which still must be adhered to.
Church Hoppers are not people who simply disagree with the Pastor either.
Church Hoppers are people who like the attention they get when they are new members at a church and/or get bored with the activities or the church in general.
I have never heard someone called a Church Hopper because they didn’t agree with the doctrine or teachings of a Pastor.
I call those people responsible.
Sheep are people that sit there and will listen to anything even when they know it is wrong.
Chas,
Perhaps that is what you teach your sheep? That they must be good loyal sheep even though you are not a Christian?
“ks agnostic
“What I said is the truth.
“And it really really hurts, doesn’t it?”
Dude, it has been very obvious for a long time that you are one of those people who create their own reality.
The part of the over the top post of yours I posted is so you. You write without regard to what is true or what is false. To you, your political beliefs equal the truth.
That’s what makes you such a transparent shill.
I stand by what I said.
Any bets on how many more comments Chas will make on this thread?
Of course people join the church because of the pastor! I for one have been looking for a pastor that moves me spiritually for years. It is obvious to me that this so-called ‘pastor’ is exactly what he appears to be. The fact that people are so blind they cannot see what is happening, and what will happen if he’s elected, is a testament to the stupidity of this nation.
Obama is a liar, plain and simple. He keeps using words like “change” and “hope” with no plan to back these statements. In the past, no matter what the color of his skin, this man would be run off the podium. You simply cannot spew this garbage without any solid evidence of how you are going to “change” this nation and remain credible. But, due to his race, he is not only still in the hunt, but winning the race. The media has not mentioned anything negative of him and is too quick to label those who do as racist or bigots. It’s a complete travesty and I hope the country isn’t thrown into chaos when he is elected.
These are sad times in America.
Couldn’t this news story and all the blog threads wait until AFTER the democratic nomination?
So what if Obama has a crazy minister he sees for one hour on Sunday?
Hillary has Bill 24-7 for Gods sake!
Chas
In my faith, the Priest observes the wedding.
The COUPLE perform the ceremony
However, if the Priest or Pastor does not “Baptize” what the hell did “John the Baptist” do?
You are being silly, and you are avoiding the point.
“Do you reject Satan?” Parents: “Yes”
“And all his works” Parents: “Yes”
“And all of his empty promises? Parents: “yes”
It is the Pastor asking the questions, and it is the Parents and God Parents speaking on behalf of the child.
PEDANTIC = Chas
You try to prove how smart you are, all the time, withour really proving much of anything.
Rossell, I visited the Obama website and could not find a listing for Pastor Wright regarding “religious outreach.”
Perhaps you can enlighten all of us.
The UCC is a non-creedal, non-doctrinal denomination… It is a Covenantal denomination… And, yes, Nathan, MANY people will support a CHURCH while not supporting a particular Pastor, because the work of the Church has been around before the Pastor they disagree with, and will be around a long time after the Pastor is gone!!
Now, maybe your denomination is different… But that doesnt make yours RIGHT and those who do things different than yours WRONG!! Some day, I hope, you will understand that!!
Behold the Beast shall lead them onto the Destruction of Israel. The Ten Kingdoms shall reign destruction upon them.
CHANGE…
I bet we will start getting posts from : . or Sugar instead of Chas…
Lets see if I have Obamas schtick down….
I disagree with this pastor……so I stay in the church for 20 years. And expose my children to this racist swill. And apparently my wife swallows it all to. Since she is just now happy to be American…I guess that 350,000 dollar per year job the American gave her did not make her happy. yikes…must be a gold plated pussywillow to.
Chas said, “I refuse to lift ANY nation… or the flag ANY nation… above the Cross….”
———————————–
He knows what’s in our hearts and souls and I think maybe He might be really disappointed fairly often.
Wonder what it says to Him when he hears stuff like, we have to leave the word God in a pledge or on a building because it’s what makes us great? What if He doesn’t WANT His name on our money and in our national pledge?
I’m not into symbolism very much. I’m not into making judgments of others life journeys. What needs to concern me is inside me. He and I are still working on that. I’m thinking it’s a life-long endeavor. He is up to the task, hope I can be.
ksagnostic’s tap dancing defense of Obama even with all if his unattractive endorsers/mentors is predictable of the sheeple flock.
No one expected hypnotized Obama supporters to look at Obama and his closely affiliated inflamers with the same level of objectivity with which they seek to assail those on the right.
But the rest of the nation will.
Chas,
The truth of the matter is that his congregation agrees with him.
I don’t doubt that. Any other congregation would be outraged by comments like that and they would demand his removal or resignation.
Denominational or not, I am pretty sure this pastor serves only at the pleasure of the Church.
So he will be there for as long as they want him or as long as he want’s to be.
Either way, this all has nothing to do with his comments being wrong.
The fact that you can’t see that or won’t admit it is why you are no Christian.
WS
Slate is hardly a right wing rag.
http://www.slate.com/id/2186599/
I posted the link earlier, but you must have missed it.
Econ, I SAID the Pastor is the Celebrant for the Sacrament… which is exactly what you just said… As for John the Baptist, check out the Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible article, on John the Baptist, and you will see how Baptisms were conducted in his day… Definitely not how we do them now…
I dont know what a wedding has to do with a baptism, but yes, the Officiant, or Celebrant, observes the Ceremony, and then blesses the marriage on behalf of the CHURCH….
Same thing with Baptism… The CHURCH is baptizing the individuals… The Clergy act as Officiant/Celebrant/Presider(in case of a Bishop)….
Now, dont YOU be telling me what i already know, and have been doing for 30+ years!! OK??? YOUR priest would not disagree with me either!!
Chas. is very correct about one thing.
It is very apparent that some of you really do not understand the UCC religious approach. The minister does not have the sort of presumed authority that more conservative or traditional denominations assume for their ministers.
That being said, TUCC is hardly a traditional UCC denomination, but from reading Obama’s own book (you know, the one that Wright is supposed to have been so influential on) it is apparent that Obama has his own views even in contrast to what I have seen and heard of Wright’s comments. That would support the idea that the relationship between Obama and his pastor is along the lines of typical relationships between UCC ministers and congregants (where a congregate comes up to a minister and is as likely to say something like, “Interesting sermon, but I really disagreed with this one.” as anything else.
Is this the Religious Blog?
Why not ask the WEBLOG for a permanent Religious thread Chas could pontificate on and then only come back to the regular blogs when he wanted to post his name-calling, put downs, and generally sinful posts.
And there goes Nathan AGAIN…. I disagree with Nathan, so I am not a Christian!!!
You know, Nathan, I am so happy to see that GOD Died, and left YOU in charge!!
My being a Christian has nothing to do with whether I agree with YOU, or with Dr. Wright, or anybody else!! So get off of your stupid religious one trick pony, and get your feet on solid ground for a change!!
You might make history!!
AmWay — actually, this IS a religious thread, in case you missed it!! LOL
Chas,
It is the fact that you believe worshipping false idols is ok that makes you no Christian and that you even encourage it!
am so happy to see that GOD Died, and left YOU in charge!!
Now wait justa cottin pickin’ minute here. If Jesus Christ is God, and God died, who was watching the chicken coup?
Nathan, WHY do you have to resort to LYING??? I donbt believe in worshipping false idols!! Where on earth do you get such fantasies???
Thats what I want to know, AmWay!! LOL
Oh sorry. By golly they gave you a religious thread.
Pontificate away!
(but you can’t sin on this thread….)
“ksagnostic’s tap dancing defense of Obama even with all if his unattractive endorsers/mentors is predictable of the sheeple flock.
“No one expected hypnotized Obama supporters to look at Obama and his closely affiliated inflamers with the same level of objectivity with which they seek to assail those on the right.
“But the rest of the nation will.”
Of course, you are a model of objectivity.
BTW, I stand by what I have said about you earlier. You are one of the unattractive types who have inspired foul weather voters to turn out to throw people like Phill Kline or the latest right wing Christian state school board members out of office.
This is the drivel that resulted in my response to you.
“Awe shucks, just another preacher spout’n off hate. Nothing to get all worked up about. After all, Obama is not a Muslim, he is a ‘christian’ just like Wright (and Phelps)! Obama and his wife love America! Obama is so darned proud that he wears the American flag on his lapel. Oh nevermind…scratch that.”
Real trifecta of innuendo here.
1) Obama’s not a Muslim in the contect of
2) He is a “Christian” with intentional quotation marks
3) He didn’t wear a flag pin. How unpatriotic.
Go crawl back under your rock. You really don’t seem to get that your swill is as unattractive as Wright’s.
And another thing, since this is the religious thread. I’m always had a problem with math, but I can count up to three purty good.
So, Jesus supposedly was dead for three days and three nights.
I mean if Christ was crucified on Good Friday,
if he got up on Sunday morning (in time for the Easter Bunny), aren’t we coming up short?
Ahhh but AmWay… ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God!! Remember that!! GOD is greater than sin!!
Yes, AmWay… we do come up short on that one… That is why you add Friday + Saturday + Sunday = 3 days!! Use Jewish time… not Western American Time… ok??
gimmee three nights.
And I always wanted to know… What Century was it when Bunny’s started to lay eggs??? ROFL!!
Just like Jonah in the whale.
Cant have three nights… all it says is 3 days… And another wrinkle??? Very Early on the First Day (Jewish Time) would be shortly after Sundown, on Sat. nite… :-)
Jewish day starts at night. Yep.
Christ was supposedly crucified on Friday afternoon.
Friday PM (day 1)
Saturday PM (day 2)
Sunday PM (day 3)
Rise and shine Monday morning!
Chas,
I didn’t say that “you” worship false idols.
I sais that you think worshiping false idols is ok and encourage it.
You do it everynight with your blessing. And when we have questioned you on it, you even said it was ok to worship false idols.
Gotta have the three nights or the bible is not correct. It says Jonah was in the belly of the whale three days and NIGHTS, so shall the saviour, blah, blah, blah.
ALSO — What were the WOMEN doing going to the tomb, to prepare the body for burial??? WOMEN werent allowed to do such a thing then!!
MANY Questions…. Only FAITH has the answers!!
Anyway, vote OBAMA democrats!
He is the man.
Anything ANYthing, but Hillary and her satan husband Bill! Bill is the REAL sinner here.
Didn’t Falwell and Pat Robertson basically say the same thing. And politicians trip over themselves all the time to speak at places like Bob Jones Unv. Personally I find most religious leaders at best jokes and worst offensives.
Exactly Tom Paine.
Nathan, I can take no responsibility for your lack of reading comprehension, or your levels of understanding… I dont believe in worshipping false idols…
I also dont believe in telling somebody else NOT of my faith, what God/Gods they can believe in…
Now, maybe some day you will GET that… I am not holding my breath in anticipation, however…
Yeah, Chas faith.
It’s those HIGH hopes,
High apple pie in the sky hopes.
So any time your gettin low stead of lettin go Just remember that ant …
Oops there goes another billion kilowatt dam!
Wow.What a bunchof BS. The facts are that Wright said some things that were quite controversial, preaching style disregarded. The facts is that OBAMA has claimed Wright to be his spiritual leader.
FOr 20 years. The fact is that while an individual may not and probably will not, agree with everthything the pastor says, regardless of his denominatin, if he finds it offensive, he should either (1) mount a drive to remove the pastor or failing that, remove himself from the teaching. He or She should not let the children be indoctrinated in such. The fact is that Repubican candidates ad officials have gotten plenty of flak from others about their religion, their spiritual mentors, and even visiting the canpus of some religius leaders. Obama gets the same treatment and howls of protest.
Just showing your own colors and prejudices. Same thing you claim the republicans and the rr, and the conservatives, and the…. and on and on.
And the beat goes on SSDD.
The reality, I don;t know why Obama stayed under such teaching. I don;t even know how really bad it was on a general basis. Really, I don’t even care that much. I very much doubt that Obama has the same viwpoints. I do think he needs, if he has any hopes of election, to address the questions. They are fairly valid quesitons, as evidenced on this board from time to time about Robertson, Romney, and on and on
Chas even with a broken right wing I couldn’t resist responding:
Ministers and Priests alike in most religions say: “I baptize you in the name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.”
Good to see that you are still out there waving your ignorance for all to see.
Oh, and the comment abot Democrats never saying such things? Bullshit. You know better. WE all know better. There are idiots of ALL persuasions.
Chas,
So, for the record:
If someone is worshiping anything other than Jesus then they are worshiping a false idol?
Is faith in Jesus the only way to salvation, and if He is not, what other ways are there then?
“There are idiots of ALL persuasions.”
I’ve not read a truer statement! We who post here prove that daily!
Didn’t the founders of our country fight a war against oppression of all kinds, including religion? Wasn’t our country founded on each individual having the freedom to worship as they choose?
Linda,
Of course. Doesn’t make it socially acceptable or wanted though.
It is what I want as an American. I find it socially acceptable to allow each person that right along with others.
“I very much doubt that Obama has the same viwpoints. I do think he needs, if he has any hopes of election, to address the questions.”
For the record I agree with you on that littlejohn (with the rest of your post, not so much). Again, the UCC (and other more theologically liberal denominations) really do have a different relationship with their pastors than more theologically conservative denominations-and I would agree this is an oversimplification). But, people only know what they have experienced. Obama is going to have to publically be very clear on where he disagrees with Wright, and also needs to be very clear once again that he isn’t really responsible for what other people say and think, even if they are his declared supporters. This is a true test for the Obama candidacy.
Linda,
Let me clarify. It doesn’t make what one believes socially acceptable, agreeable, or wanted.
They are free to believe it, just as we are free to disagree with them.
We offer this as one of the more stunning examples of completely out of control Clinton derangment syndrome (AKA CDS):
“Anything ANYthing, but Hillary and her satan husband Bill!”
As far back as Feb snopes was proved to be bias in their slant. MM is a little slow to respond and the WE is still in the dark.
02/22/08
Obama and the Trinity United Church of Christ – And Snopes.com
Filed under: Truth — C.H. Truth @ 08:32:09 am
If you haven’t heard the buzz about Obama and the Trinity United Church of Christ… no doubt you will. Apparently the Chicago based church that Obama goes to has caused some controversy in the past and may become a thorn in the presumptive Democratic Nominees side as things move forward.
I spent a bit of time googling and researching the Trinity United Church of Christ or TUCC if you will. One of the first sites that came up other than the TUCC site itself was Snopes.com the “urban legend” reference site. I have become increasingly skeptical of Snopes.com when it comes to political questions and I think this one finally put me over the edge. But let’s back up here for a second.
The issue of the Church has been brought up on some of the Cable News Channels, including Tucker Carlson on MSNBC and Hannity and Colmes on FOX News. The concern for some is that Obama is a member of a church who’s mission is to promote the Black Community, has a “non-negotiable commitment to Africa”, and pushes a “Black Value Plan”. The point was also brought up that the Church gave an award to the controversial Louis Farrakhan in 2007. All of which is 100% true.
But Snopes.com uses completely different criteria for their question when they determine that talk of the Church is an urban legend. They ask and answer a completely different question:
Claim: Illinois Senator Barack Obama is a racist whose church has a “non-negotiable commitment to Africa” that is covertly Muslim and excludes non-blacks.
Status: False
Hmmm… this is actually quite the straw man way to ask the question, now isn’t it? In fact, until I went to the snope.com site, I had never heard anyone suggest that the church was covertly Muslim or that any of it proved that Obama himself is a racist.
But if you concentrate on the meat and potatoes… the line about a non-negotiable commitment to Africa is in quotes because it is taken from the Trinity Church 10 point vision. Further more, the first line in their “About us” page reads:
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian…
Now they may not technically “exclude” non-whites… but the Church itselfs claims to be a Black (I thought it was African-American again?) congregation. I don’t think that the mission statement makes me want to join up.
The reality here is that Snopes.com is simply not being honest. If they took the mainstream questions about whether or not Senator Obama is a member of an Church which is unashamedly black and recently gave an award to Louis Farrakhan then the answer would be be True.
http://www.coldheartedtruth.com/index.php/main/2008/02/22/obama_and_the_trinity_united_church_of_c
I’m not a good judge, I haven’t had much practice. There is waaaay too much in my life that needs to be improved to turn my efforts toward others. I see differences in disagreeing and making judgments.
“Obama is going to have to publically be very clear on where he disagrees with Wright, and also needs to be very clear once again that he isn’t really responsible for what other people say and think, even if they are his declared supporters. ”
And on this we agree. I do not think that each candidate has to be held responsible for the every saying of every declared supporter. My reasoning is different: By staying under the mans’ teaching,and declaring him his spiritual advisior, Obama appears to be supporting Wright, and that is a valid question as to how far he supports Wright. The second point was the hypocrisy of the WEBLOG, when Republican candidates are villified by what religion they follow (Romney for one) and who went to whose campus and spoke. Surely one or two visits, or even a dozen, do not equal the same allegiance as 20 years of following one’s identified spiritual advisior.
I don’t care what snopes.com says. The fact that he even sits in on sermons from this idiot is enough to NOT VOTE FOR HIM alone!
Didn’t your momma tell you that if you run around with certain people you start acting like them?
And once again, I am supporting Obama for the general election.
“Wasn’t our country founded on each individual having the freedom to worship as they choose?”
Of course, Linda, you are exactly correct. The same right as others have to make a decision about electing someone who has endorsed this pastor for 20 years.
Look at the outrage by the Democrats, Liberals, and African American community when Trent Lott said what he did about Strom Thurmand.
Now all of a sudden being associated with someone is ok no matter what they say because as long as you didn’t say it that is ok…
Obama calls this man a mentor, has him as his spiritual advisor, wrote a book crediting him, and even attended his church for 20 years.
But we are supposed to ignore all that because it is not Obama who said those things.
Hypocrites, all of them.
“Go crawl back under your rock. You [rfl] really don’t seem to get that your swill is as unattractive as Wright’s.”
-ksagnostic
ksagnostic does not find my “swill” attractive.
Hmmm, I think that might be a compliment.
Your right, I am not the model of objectivity. I will jump on every opportunity to assail a candidate that I feel is the worst choice for my country just like you will do the same for your worst choice. I am biased just like you are. Okay?
Kansas please list his ‘merits’ that qualify him as our next prez.
On My Faith and My Church
The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He’s drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.
Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.
Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.
As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It’s a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.
Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he’s been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.
The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.
Let me repeat what I’ve said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.
With Rev. Wright’s retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright’s statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.
Kansas,
We are pointing out the racist bias from Obama’s mentor.
If you want to keep your head buried in the sand and pretend like that doesn’t matter, fine. Don’t expect me or others to do the same.
If that were really Obama, I would thank him for his answer, and move on.
MH – per your 12:55 post, I just have to say that.
I find your description of God there to be quite interesting, enlightening, and beautiful. We often clash words here, but I must say: Here, here. Well done. And in case you’re wondering, no, my tongue is NOT planted in cheek, I mean every word.
And God blesses us, not because we are worth it (for we are not) but because He loves us despite ourselves.
And no, Obama is not responsible for what his paster says; only for what he says and adopts. This is indeed a cheap shot. But it will have no effect.
Lets see, from at least 2001 to now we have a record of Rev. Jeremiah Wright making some pretty bad statements.
That is nearly 7 years.
Now Obama is saying:
“When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.”
Obama expects us to believe that only at the start of his Presidential campaign did these types of statements begin?
Yeah right!
After 9/11, from the Rev Jeremiah Wright:
“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye,” Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.
“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost,” he told his congregation.”
Ksgrm
Posted March 14, 2008 at 2:52 pm | Permalink
Chas even with a broken right wing I couldn’t resist responding:
Ministers and Priests alike in most religions say: “I baptize you in the name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.”
Good to see that you are still out there waving your ignorance for all to see.
================================================
Amen.
I guess it depends on how you define: Church.
Nathan
Posted March 14, 2008 at 3:15 pm | Permalink
Look at the outrage by the Democrats, Liberals, and African American community when Trent Lott said what he did about Strom Thurmand.
Now all of a sudden being associated with someone is ok no matter what they say because as long as you didn’t say it that is ok…
Obama calls this man a mentor, has him as his spiritual advisor, wrote a book crediting him, and even attended his church for 20 years.
But we are supposed to ignore all that because it is not Obama who said those things.
Hypocrites, all of them.
=================================================
The problem is Nathan, Trent Lott didn’t make his comments in church.
You see, in church, you can say whatever you want and get away with it. You can listen to this crap for 20 frickin years, and claim that’s just in church, I don’t really believe that crap I’ve been listening to for 20 years.
The fact of the matter is probably: Obama has attended this church a whopping 20 times in 20 years.
It’s just a fascade to hide his Muslim faith.
Kansas please list his ‘merits’ that qualify him as our next prez.
He’s not a republican, ksgrm
Ksgrm
Posted March 14, 2008 at 2:52 pm | Permalink
Chas even with a broken right wing I couldn’t resist responding:
Ministers and Priests alike in most religions say: “I baptize you in the name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.”
Good to see that you are still out there waving your ignorance for all to see.
==================================
As usual, KsGrm, you have absolutely no upderstanding of Sacramental Theology… Or you wouldnt say such a thing… Of Course, the minister/priest says “I Baptize you….” BUT, in sacramental theology, the minister/ priest speaks on behalf of the Church and the Congregation… Thus, what I said is SPOT ON accurate… The CHURCH baptizes the individual… NOT the Pastor… In fact, in I Corinthians, St. Paul gives thanks that he only baptized a HANDFUL of people, and states that baptism is NOT his purpose in the Church!!
So, I will thank you to not be so royalistically simplistic when you address a subject with which I am by far superior in knowledge to over you — GET IT??
Chas,
Here is Chas calling someone wrong over Baptism…
Yet he won’t say a word about Rev Wright saying God Damn America!
Hypocrite.
Hey Chas,
No answers to my questions:
If someone is worshiping anything other than Jesus then they are worshiping a false idol?
Is faith in Jesus the only way to salvation, and if He is not, what other ways are there then?
So parents who give birth to a child at home, baptise the child in water in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, have no authority or power to do so because they do not belong to the Church?
Did John the Baptist belong to a Church? If so, what Church? If not, then by what Authority did John have to baptise Jesus?
“Go ye therefore and baptize….” Doesn’t mention any of the crap you just posted. Did you and Pastor Wright attend the same school?
Nathan
Posted March 14, 2008 at 4:02 pm | Permalink
Hey Chas,
No answers to my questions:
If someone is worshiping anything other than Jesus then they are worshiping a false idol?
Is faith in Jesus the only way to salvation, and if He is not, what other ways are there then?
==================================================
For a “Christian” pastor to not be able to admit this, indeed not to be able to enthusiastically proclaim it to all on every blog and in every sermon, I have to wonder if Chas truly beleives?
Chas says he doesn’t want to talk about his faith on this blog, BUT THAT IS ALL THAT CHAS HAS DONE ALL FRICKIN DAY LONG, IS TALK ABOUT HIS FAITH!
CHAS HAS PROCLAIMED HIS OWN DIVINE EXPERTISE ON THIS TOPIC!!!!
WHY CAN CHAS NEVER ANSWER THIS QUESTION ASKED BY NATHAN AND MYSELF SEVERAL TIMES?
WHY?
WHY?
WHY?
Satan cannot even lie about this.
Nathan
Posted March 14, 2008 at 2:54 pm | Permalink
Chas,
So, for the record:
If someone is worshiping anything other than Jesus then they are worshiping a false idol?
Is faith in Jesus the only way to salvation, and if He is not, what other ways are there then?
===============================================
Nathan, please pull your head out from your derrier, and TRY to use some elementary form of Reason….
The answers to your questions are:
YES, and YES — FOR THOSE WHO ARE CHRISTIANS!!
We, of ALL the people in this world, should be most aware, that what ONE group believes is not to be held as the ONE AND ONLY belief for ALL of the people in this nation…
AS CHRISTIANS… these are our beliefs… But, Nathan, surely you wouldnt want to infringe on the rights of others to believe something that WE CHRISTIANS do not believe??
Or would you?? Maybe you would!!
You MIGHT want to check out something quite interesting in I Corinthians 5:9-13. What those OUTSIDE the church believe is not our issue to deal with… Only with those INSIDE the Church… God can handle the rest just fine with no help needed from US!!
Now, what you said to Linda about socially acceptable, etc, that strongly implies that regardless of the guarantees of the First Amendment, you dont choose to accept those guarantees… THAT is scary!!
Linda’s post:
lindainks55
Posted March 14, 2008 at 2:56 pm | Permalink
Didn’t the founders of our country fight a war against oppression of all kinds, including religion? Wasn’t our country founded on each individual having the freedom to worship as they choose?
===================================
YOUR words:
Nathan
Posted March 14, 2008 at 2:58 pm | Permalink
Linda,
Of course. Doesn’t make it socially acceptable or wanted though.
======================================
What is relevant is that those who do NOT share your beliefs have an equal right to disagree with you… YOU do not have the right to attempt to put a stop to THEIR beliefs… as you somewhat hint at here, by stating that their beliefs are not “socially acceptable or wanted”
So, do you accept the Constitution of this nation, or not??
Chas that same freedom allows us to actively rally against a person whose religious faith is at odds with us politically. By sitting in this church for 20 years Obama will be linked with the statements of Wright.
This from someone who said they would vote for Obama. No more.
Chas., I think you said you put no flag above the cross, right?
“So, do you accept the Constitution of this nation, or not??”
Do you put the Constitution above the cross?
This is a first for Chas. Though he didn’t explicitly come out and state what Nathan and I have been asking for months.
Didn’t answer the baptism question though.
Course you know, if you hide that candle in the Church, how is it exactly that you are to go out and tell the world about Christ?
“someone is worshiping anything other than Jesus then they are worshiping a false idol?
Is faith in Jesus the only way to salvation, and if He is not, what other ways are there then?
===============================================
Nathan, please pull your head out from your derrier, and TRY to use some elementary form of Reason….
The answers to your questions are:
YES, and YES — FOR THOSE WHO ARE CHRISTIANS!!
We, of ALL the people in this world, should be most aware, that what ONE group believes is not to be held as the ONE AND ONLY belief for ALL of the people in this nation…
AS CHRISTIANS… these are our beliefs… But, Nathan, surely you wouldnt want to infringe on the rights of others to believe something that WE CHRISTIANS do not believe??
Or would you?? Maybe you would!!
You MIGHT want to check out something quite interesting in I Corinthians 5:9-13. What those OUTSIDE the church believe is not our issue to deal with… Only with those INSIDE the Church… God can handle the rest just fine with no help needed from US!!”
Okay, idiotically, I am going to join in this fray. Constituionally, each person has a right to whatever religion they believe, or no religion, if that is his belief. That does not mean that others who believe otherwise cannot believe the first is wrong. That too, is part of their COnstitutionally protected belief.
I do not believe that Nathan was talking about COnstitutional answers, but what you believe to be true. Since you have held yourself out to be a theological expert, and have used that statement to cow others into osubmission, questions about what you believe to be tru become appropriate.
Your answer at least appears to be that for Christians, worhsipping false idols is bad, for others, not so much. Perhaps you will disagree with the words “the only name by which man can be saved is Jesus” ANd yeah, I didn;t lookit up, so it probably isn;t quite correct. and as for Corinthians, the whole damn letter was written to the CHurch at Corinth. You are using that prroftext out of context with the whole of the New Testament, in which the burden of evangelism is indeed laid upon members of the church. It is indeed incumbent upon the church to spread the gospel, and to move people away from false idols. You know that as well, being the theology expert. You choose to hide it for reasons that I do not pretend to understand, or state.
Stupid question Hud/Troll… I already stated my belief earlier… The Constitution is the law of this land…
You are right LJ — you’re a little out of your league… The Constitution does not prohibit Christians from practicing their faith… NOR does it keep any others from practicing theirs… IF Christians venture out and preach their message, and some wish to join them in their faith, that is the way it should work… But… to deny someone equal citizenship because of their Faith is simply unamerican… Even Jesus told his disciples if they came to a town where they werent accepted, to shake off the dust from their feet, and move on… He did NOT tell them to stay put, and keep preaching until the folks believed!!
THAT is indeed a very fine line… See, as Christians, OUR freedom of faith ends where the other person’s begins…
“The Constitution does not prohibit Christians from practicing their faith… NOR does it keep any others from practicing theirs… IF Christians venture out and preach their message, and some wish to join them in their faith, that is the way it should work… But… to deny someone equal citizenship because of their Faith is simply unamerican”
Agaim, misdirection by you. I don;t thnk anyone said any such thing. Please poiont out where they did
Chas-
Your “out of you league” comment doesn;t scare me one bit. In point of fact, you hold yourself out to be a theological expert to beat people down, then refuse to answer questions, telling people it’s noneof their business. Oh sorry, I forgot the all caps. If it is none of their business then just shut up about it. Easy
No misdirection LJ — Just look at the radical bigoted Spew about Obama here on this thread… People want him out of the running, because of what CHURCH he belongs to… WE dont have that right!! If you dont want the man to be president, dont vote for him… but, DO NOT make his RELIGION the pivot point for the Presidency!!
The way this country is going, in 8 years, we could have a Buddhist running… If that happens, you all are gonna have a REAL field day with that one!!
“GMC70″ posted –
“MH – per your 12:55 post, I just have to say that.
“I find your description of God there to be quite interesting, enlightening, and beautiful. We often clash words here, but I must say: Here, here. Well done. And in case you’re wondering, no, my tongue is NOT planted in cheek, I mean every word.
Thanks, “GMC70.”
Yeah, we disagree a lot, but I generally have the feeling that you’ve thought out your arguments. Even when you’re wrong.
And even when you’re wrong, you have some logic behind it rather than a theological or politcal agenda.
It’s significant that the right wingnuts here have chosen to attack the sermons of Wright rather than defend the theology of Hagee or Parsley. When you have no defense, the only option is to attack.
“God blesses us, not because we are worth it (for we are not) but because He loves us despite ourselves.”
God should have better taste in people. ;-)
“And no, Obama is not responsible for what his paster says; only for what he says and adopts. This is indeed a cheap shot. But it will have no effect.”
You’re right, “GMC70.”
But look around at the people who share your political beliefs and how they’ve jumped on the Wright issue with all sorts of self-righteous indignation.
“Nathan” is back accusing people of not being “Christian,” whatever that might mean to “Nathan.” Lapel-pin patriots are outraged at the thought — the very thought! — that God might be in the slightest way disappointed in the way the United States of America operates.
God, being a pretty good guy (that’s His job), just might bless America because we have a Constitution and ideals which we claim to aspire to. But if it’s “Nathan’s” God, a vendictive God, a punishing God… then we’re s#it outta luck for what we’ve actually done.
Jesus also say go and make disciples. And Paul wrote the letter to the Corininthians, what did he say to the ROmans, Chas, the nonchristian Romans?
People want him out of the running, because of what CHURCH he belongs to… WE dont have that right!! If you dont want the man to be president, dont vote for him… but, DO NOT make his RELIGION the pivot point for the Presidency!!
BULLSHIT
Stupid question Hud/Troll…
You must have problems answering questions.
Is it possible for you to answer without name calling?
“The way this country is going, in 8 years, we could have a Buddhist running… If that happens, you all are gonna have a REAL field day with that one!!”
I personally don;t care.
I should have broken that out a little differently
People want him out of the running, because of what CHURCH he belongs to…
BULLSHIT
WE dont have that right!! If you dont want the man to be president, dont vote for him… but, DO NOT make his RELIGION the pivot point for the Presidency!!
I agree
One reason I didn;t care Romney was a Mormon. DId you? There were certainlyh many on the left on this blog that did. Did you support Romneys religious choice, or jump on the band wagon. Not a rhetorical question, I just don;t remember
Sure a lucky think this pastor said some stupid, cruel things. There couldn’t be reasons more important than this to base a decision of how to vote on.
If the pattering of those who dissed Huck for his religion it would be funny. I will not vote for him BECAUSE he sat week after week and listened to a preacher rail against our country for inventing aids, for deserving 9/11, for many other atrocities. He also has just admitted that Rezko is much more connected than previously admitted. He has admitted to seeking Bill Ayers approval before running for political office. If nothing else he is guilty of poor judgement and not speaking up when those around him are wrong. Not prez material.
Left fingers are worn out. Goodnite all.
Well Chas the preacher man can tell someone so many things, including telling them to take their head out of their ass, or you are out of your league, Chas is the only expert here.
Still the preacher man can’t answer:
1) By what authority did John the Baptist baptize Jesus?
2) Is the only way to salvation through Jesus Christ the Savior?
Oh, the blog is just impatiently awaiting the annoited response from the Religious Blog Expert – Chas?
Obama writes that “I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies.”
He says that Wright “has never been my political advisor; he’s been my pastor.”
REZKO!!!
How soon we forget!!!
Yes, Obama after 20 years of sitting every Sunday in the church of Rev Wright, now disavows any knowledge of his actions!
Ok, you listen to such bullshit for 20 years, and NOW, 20 years later, you disagree.
Max — frothing at the keyboard — says:
“1) By what authority did John the Baptist baptize Jesus?
2) Is the only way to salvation through Jesus Christ the Savior?”
# 1 — According to the Gospels, Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist, on HIS (Jesus) authority.
# 2 — FOR CHRISTIANS, Jesus Christ is the way to salvation.
All of a sudden Obama disagrees with Rev Wright!
Since when?
Did he disagree BEFORE today?
Don’t you just hate short repetitive posts that are SOMETIMES IN ALL CAPS???????
Technical errors….
Really STUPID questions Max… You need some matches for your Flame??? ROFL!!
Like when you post an OBITUARY and the name JAMES MCCLEUR is ALL BOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Technical errors……..
Damn! We lost Max’s vote for Obama.
How will we ever win Iowa?!
Tell ya what, Max, why dont you take it up with Obama, since Obama disagrees with Rev. Wright… This particular statement by Wright is probably not one that has been repeated terribly often… But, thats a waste of type space to even tell you that… because your mind is made up and nobody, NOBODY, will ever confuse you with FACTS!!
Max is trying to get the thread shut down again.
Thanks, Max.
Max, YOU sir/madam are a friggin idiot!! And I am NOT discussing the Obit. that I posted here AGAIN!! GET IT??
CapN — I have a hunch that might be Max’s main goal… to shut down the Blog… LOL
Chas
Your theology is up to you.
You have a Constitutional Right to be wrong, politically and religiously.
I am glad that I live in a country that allows your huge, obvious error, without any chance of our government trying to shut you up.
However, You are wrong on Religion.
You are wrong on the Constitution.
Actually, you are not logically in how you relate the two.
You worship an Idol.
Unfortunately, you do not understand the Idol that you worship.
You worship the “Constitution” as YOU and only YOU interpret that document.
As has been pointed out, you were correct on one point: The Cross has been with us longer than the Flag, and the Cross will be with us forever.
However, the Cross has also been here longer than the Constitution.
Your arguments make no logical sense.
Besides, the whole Baptism thing came up because I said Obama’s pastor “baptised” Obama’s children.
So what?
Who cares about the theology involved?
Can you tell us, honestly, that you never have said “yes’ when asked the simple question, “pastor can you baptise my baby next week?” —
Did you launch into your pedantic, and wrong headed theology at that point? Or did you say “yes” or, “how about two weeks from now”?
Come on Chas?
Tell us the truth.
Besides this weird, diversionary argument you put forth — your illogical inconsistency is showing.
YOU may believe that a pastor does not “baptise” but only observes, or acts in place of the Church.
So what?
Who the Hell are YOU to tell the rest of us Christians what we are to believe?
If we believe that the pastor baptizes, you can tell us we are “wrong” that is your right huh? Chas and ONLY Chas can tell us what every denomination of the Christian faith MUST believe!
Chas, you loudly, arrogantly attack those who try to explain their faith to you, while you bring up all kinds of false Constitutional “reasons” why we should not judge Obama’s fitness for office, based on his pastor — yet YOU judge conservatives, on this Blog, every day!
Your reasoning is mush Chas.
You make no clear, coherent sense at all.
Mr heckler?
I don’t like you anymore than you like me.
But I don’t accuse you of switching nics.
This is my first post to this thread and my first post to the blog since early this morning.
I am all for Hillary in spirit, but I would never post the things the person using that nic did.
Thanks.
The topic?
I don’t believe in God. Most certainly I’ve know no blessing from him. So maybe I have an uncluttered view on religion.
Or maybe I shouldn’t judge.
Whatever else you can say about Obama’s pastor, this much is clear.
Obama is clearly deeply linked with this man over a long time period. And so he will be stained by the words his pastor says.
The media has been incredibly irresponsible in not getting this story out sooner. Because while Obama’s pastor’s words are not a problem for most Democrats, they are going to have a BIG effect on moderates and independents. And he is going to have a problem getting away from this.
Obama has reached THIS close to nomination and only now this comes out in a big way. It almost looks like setting up a nominee who can’t win.
Mark 1
4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
6And John was clothed with camel’s hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;
7And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
8I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
“You worship the “Constitution” as YOU and only YOU interpret that document.”
Now that was what my question was about. I was sure I was reading it wrong since he said he did not put the flag over the cross.
Next question for Chas., does not the flag represent the “laws of the land”? Without the laws the flag means nothing.
In other words Chas., it is my opinion you are putting the flag above the cross.
GMC Spews FALSE nonsense >>>>
“If we believe that the pastor baptizes, you can tell us we are “wrong” that is your right huh? Chas and ONLY Chas can tell us what every denomination of the Christian faith MUST believe!”
GMC… YOU can believe the Pastor baptizes, IF YOU WISH… But at Trinity UCC, in Chicago, IL, The CHURCH baptizes its people… The PASTOR is the Celebrant… I did not invent that… THAT, sir, is just plain FACT!!
The implication of course, is that Obama somehow had a close bond to Rev. Wright because Rev. Wright “baptized” his children… And that wasnt original with YOU… I heard it early this morning on Limbaugh, and later on Glenn Beck… So, dont flatter yourself!!
Rev. Wright baptizes people on BEHALF of the Trinity UCC… I’m sorry… Thats the way it is… I didnt INVENT that!! If you want to believe otherwise, you are most free to believe that FOR YOUR CHURCH!!
Different denominations understand their theology differently from others…
As for the Cross being around longer than the Flag, that is also a FACT… as well as the Constitution…. Now, IF the First Amendment guarantees the Freedom of Religion… Then that is NOT an IDOL… That, mr. prosecutor, is the LAW… Fortunately, YOU cant change that fact either!!
Now, can you possibly gather your thoughts a little better, before you take off on another RANT about my Faith, and about a Church you obviously dont know ANYTHING about??? At least study up on the United Church of Christ, before you attempt to tear it apart!! GOT IT???
May the conscious of Chas, if he has one, be eternally blessed with the spirt of the one true God today.
For the first time, Chas shall know the truth. And shall speaketh nothing else from this day forward.
First, Satan needs to be cast out from Chas. There are many demons there.
From the words of the decievers, many shall be misled.
May the decievers be dealt with now, and not later.
Huh
Obama’s pastor KINDA looks like Hank with a tan.
To the Obama supporters:
This story has been around for a LONG time. We first started hearing hints of it in the blogosphere several months ago.
And it was quickly hushed up. None of us supporters of Senator Clinton have been pounding this thing. And we could have.
Maybe we should have. It is very bad for our party that this comes out so late in the game. And again, I am in no way condemning Obama OR his pastor. I am making a political calculation.
Now you and Obama better find a way to spin this thing and quick. I see Obama is going to TRY with appearances on Olberman and Anderson this evening.
GMC
Sorry, Chas just gave you a blast that waas probably meant for me —
But we know Chas can’t read very well —
This is why Chas understands neither the Constitution NOR the Bible!
Anyone who thinks a “Church” baptizes anyone, knows not the one from whom the church was founded.
A church is not a building or a meeting of people without God.
Max stupidly asks >>>>
“Can you tell us, honestly, that you never have said “yes’ when asked the simple question, “pastor can you baptise my baby next week?” —
Did you launch into your pedantic, and wrong headed theology at that point? Or did you say “yes” or, “how about two weeks from now”?”
============================================
Question # 1 — NO — I have never said that… I need to clear such a thing with the Board first. Then the Church must issue a Baptismal Certificate. THEN I officiate at the Baptism, on a date selected by the Board, myself, and the family involved.
Question # 2 — Part 2 — Actually, GMC, in the parish I am now serving, I could NOT baptize a baby even if I wanted to… See, this denomination does not baptize babies… See how stupid your ranting is???
By the way, I was among the first to bring this back to life on the blog yesterday. I TRIED to get it in discussion because I knew once it hit the bigger media it was gonna be a mess.
This is another reason why the media love affair for Obama has not been a good thing. The media LOVES to make an idol just to pull it down.
In many churches of independent status (not affiliated with any denomination) it is highly possible that a pastor might indeed consider him/herself the “baptizer” of persons…
Once again, That is NOT true of congregations such as Trinity UCC, Chicago… or of the Parish I current serve…
Different congregations have different understandings… Why is that so hard to comprehend???
Sorry GMC… glasses need adjusted… That should have been directed to Econ…
Chas a person baptizes ‘in the name of’. Why not quit without digging the hole deeper? The building is just that a building, the church is the congregation, they wouldn’t be able to surround the ‘baptisee’. Simple logic.
Chas
Without going into a bunch of history, The Pope is seen as the “Vicar” of Christ by Catholics.
Can we agree that Catholics, Coptics and Eastern Orthodox have claim to being the most ancient of Christian denominations?
“Vicar” means in the place of God, does it not?
And, the Priests were ordained by Bishops who obtained that title through the Popes.
And, when acting on behalf of the Church, all Priests can say “I baptize you” or “I pronounce you man and wife” —
Just like a Judge in a Court of Law can say, “This Court finds you in Contempt” or whatever.
So what?
Again, the point is not only that you are wrong.
You are almost always wrong.
The point is that you seem to have no point.
This bigot, Pastor Wright, was in charge of a church where Barrack Obama and Michelle Obama got married.
This hateful bigot, Pastor Wright, was in charge of a church in which his children were baptized.
Ok, I just said it in words that even you should understand.
The point is that Obama and Wright are linked at the hip.
The Obama’s contributed at least $22,000.00 to this Church, were a bigot was the pastor.
Obama wrote a book inspired by this bigoted Pastor.
This Pastor says that HIV/Aids is a government plot, that we deserved 9/11, that drugs are just governments way to put Black men in jail, this pastor thinks terrorism is justified, against the United States, due to Truman CORRECTLY bombing Japan in a time of war, an act that saved hundreds of thousands of United States Servicemen their very lives!
Obama is just another Jessie Jackson.
Obama is just another Al Sharpton.
Obama is just another Louis Farahkan.
You disagree?
Well, if Obama does not agree with Pastor Jeremiah Wright, that Obama is:
A Coward and an Opportunist!
Max
Now, you appear to be catching a scolding from “pastor Chas” that was meant for me.
The man can not read, so I guess we have to forgive him his misunderstanding of the law, and his faith.
As long as we are turning over rocks…
Didn’t John McCain get an endorsement from some Catholic basher?
I may need to go look for that.
JR-
Yes he did, and caught hell for it (at least on the blog).
Econ more commonly known as paulthecon should be regarded only with the following disclaimer.
He is a funtioning operative and footsoldier of the Republican party. As such, his opinion on the Democratic race for nomination means as much as a pig’s review on fine dining.
“Now, you appear to be catching a scolding from “pastor Chas” that was meant for me”
Econ101, are you bulletproff now?
I tihnk that is part of the reason for the “over the top” noise about Obama and Wright. Any Republican who has received an endorsement by religious “leaders” who espouse something stupid, gets full coverage, and a ripping by the media, and the left in general. Obama not only received support from Wright, they are closely tied together. And at least on the surface, Obama have given support to Wright. That is the difference. Yet, from the left comes either silence or outrage that anyone would even bring it up.
Seems to be a double standard. Of course, I will be the first to admit that it works both ways. It’s just a Democrat’s ox being gored this time.
JR
I am disappointed in Obama, but —
I am enjoying this quite a bit.
It will be fun watching you fight for Obama up to November.
Hillary will run up huge numbers on Obama in Pennsylvania, but the Super Delegates will not dare tick off the Black voters.
This is fun.
I am having a blast.
— How about you?
Econ — WRONG AGAIN!!!
“This bigot, Pastor Wright, was in charge of a church where Barrack Obama and Michelle Obama got married.
This hateful bigot, Pastor Wright, was in charge of a church in which his children were baptized.”
In FACT, Econ, Rev. Wright is NOT in charge of Trinity UCC, Chicago… The Officers of the BOARD of Trinity UCC, Chicago are in charge there… It might be referred to as Church Board, or Church Council, or General Board, or Official Board, or even The Consistory…. depending on the history of the local congregation before and since the 1957 merger…
Rev. Wright is NOT the CEO of the congregation… IN fact, Trinity UCC does not have a CEO… He is/was Senior Minister… He is accountable to the Board members of the Church…
Now, KsGrm — I dont care if there is or is not a building… The Church is NOT a building… The Church as you say, IS PEOPLE… And the CHURCH gathered baptizes its members… The PASTOR of that Church gathered is the Celebrant/Officiant at said baptisms… The PASTOR, as the designated Pastor/Teacher of the congregation, acts on behalf of the congregation… But that is only to say it is HIS/HER hands that apply the water of baptism to the individual, on behalf of ALL of the members gathered…
Can you even possibly understand that??? It really isnt HARD…. Baptisms in the United Church of Christ, are recorded in the Church’s Record Book… usually one that has been around for many generations… At the annual meeting of the congregation, the Pastor MIGHT report that he/she has officiated at “X” number of baptisms/funerals/weddings/confirmations/etc., etc. during the course of the year.
It is really very simple, unless you are intentionally trying to flame something so simple, into an intentional argument… which is very much what it appears to be…
And dont even TRY to tell me I am wrong on this one… Because any dummy can find a Worhip book for any mainline denomination and read most of this there… And yes, I can provide a list of said books… But I probably wont because you just want to flame an argument, and spew out your drivel…`
I haven’t watched Anderson Cooper in a while.
I don’t know if he has been in the tank for Obama.
But Olberman CLEARLY is.
He and Cooper NEED to be tough on Barack this evening. Softballs are not gonna help make this go away.
Hud
I meant from Chas of course, I saw something he put in quotes that I know I also said. — maybe you said it too?
Bulletproof?
No, not at all, I was just getting lonely and feeling neglected, until JR showed up to put a smile on my face.
This Blog is no fun at all if I can’t annoy a liberal!
(And Chas, that was the “corporate I”) lol
I am wondering… Have any of the usual disruptors here even LISTENED to the entire Sermon in Question preached by Dr. Wright??? Or have you only heard “sound bites”???
Just a question….
I just want folks to know your posts here are nothing but shilling for the GOP there paulie.
I consider it a public service.
Chas
This “church board” stuff is window dressing and nothing more.
Most pastors, in such denominations, know how to stack the board full of their supporters and friends.
Especially after 20 years as Pastor.
Now, KsGrm — I dont care if there is or is not a building… The Church is NOT a building… The Church as you say, IS PEOPLE… And the CHURCH gathered baptizes its members… The PASTOR of that Church gathered is the Celebrant/Officiant at said baptisms… The PASTOR, as the designated Pastor/Teacher of the congregation, acts on behalf of the congregation… But that is only to say it is HIS/HER hands that apply the water of baptism to the individual, on behalf of ALL of the members gathered…
ChaS–
i Really don;t understand what point you are tryin to make. The pastor performs the baptism. It is in the name of the church. It seems that those you argue with are making the same point.
Indeed, I have performed baptisms for members ofmy family. Whether are not you want to say I was the celebrant, or the whatever, it was in fact me that peformed the ceremony. In common terminology, I baptized my children. Theologically, alls I did was perform the ceremony. The church didn’t do it either. God was in fact the actual baptizer, theologically. What is your point?
Chas
There are dozens and dozens of hateful sermons by this nut case Pastor Wright.
How many do we need to hear?
And, by the way, if any Republican went to a church where the pastor was a “White Seperatist” what would you liberals say about that?
Obama is either as crazy as Pastor Wright, or Obama is a coward for not getting in Wrights face and telling him he was wrong.
Econ writes >>>>
“Obama is either as crazy as Pastor Wright, or Obama is a coward for not getting in Wrights face and telling him he was wrong.”
Econ, can you state for a FACT that you know for a FACT that Obama did NOT get in Wright’s face and tell him he was wrong??
And if you know that, HOW would you know that?? Would not that be some way out form of hear-say???
“Obama is either as crazy as Pastor Wright, or Obama is a coward for not getting in Wrights face and telling him he was wrong.”
Here is where we part company. Perhaps he did get in Wrights face. I do not consider Obama crazy or a coward. I think only so much can be made with the guilt by association. I think you crossed it.
Chas humility is a virtue. You should try it. You are begging now and it isn’t pretty.
“Rev. Wright is no longer on Obama campaign spiritual advisory committee” MSNBC on NOW
I get so sick of the notion that Republicans are the racists. Give me a break. Wake up black America. Which party opposed the civil rights movement? Which party has used the welfare system to destroy the African-American family? Which party had a former KKK member as leader of their Senate? The present-day Democrat Party is the answer. You can keep believing the left-wing mantra, if you choose. But I suggest you take a long, hard look at which party would actually welcomes you in as equals. Its funny, that George Bush has appointed more African-American individuals to prominent positions than any other President in history, and what happens? Those individuals are called “Uncle Tom’s” and Republicans are still called racists. Come join the real party that wants to unite, instead of hanging on the false-hope that the current Democrat Party will let you sit at their table.
Oh not good.
NOW Obama’s pastor has dissociated with the campaign.
DUMB! Politically inept! This is dumber than when Senator Clinton threw Ferraro under the bus.
You SPIN this not try and bury it. You can’t bury it.
KsGrm, WHY would I be begging?? I know when I am right on something as simple as the Baptism issue… or the marriage issue for that matter… I also know when certain OTHERS are just trying to FLAME something into the area of ridiculous verbage… like what YOU are doing now!! LOL Why dont you just admit up front that you dont know anything about how the UCC operates, or how its congregations are organized… That would be the proper thing for YOU and a number of others to do here… You know NOTHING about that denomination or about that local Church…
Chass, baptism doesn’t have a denomination. Quit groveling.
Ksgrm
Posted March 14, 2008 at 4:07 pm | Permalink
“Go ye therefore and baptize….” Doesn’t mention any of the crap you just posted. Did you and Pastor Wright attend the same school?
=====================================
Of course not, Granny… different text… different story!! And you might want to quote the entire statement???
I have no clue where Rev. Wright attended Seminary…. none at all!!
After reading this thread I am convinced religion doesn’t sound like anything I want to be involved with.
I think I am done with all of you bigots for one day… Cant have discussions with rocks…
UCC, now there’s an evil church. Has lost more members in the last decade by percentage than any other church.
Why? Because the UCC has lost its way. They no longer deliver the story of Christ, but one of Human Secularism and appease to the political whims of the secularist’s fancy.
In short, they became a Democratic Party Church.
A church that is due to failure and one that will never save a soul and may not save its collection plates if they keep delivering political speeches from the pulpit.
Linda the belittling that Chas does on a dailey basis has nothing to do with Christianity. He has a religion all to himself. He makes his own blog rules and then violates them all. Sorry if that isn’t what you see here but that is how I see it.
I see many people who judge other people.
I guess we are looking at different things.
“He has a religion all to himself.”
KSGRM, I think I look at it a little different, too.
He is his own religion.
Yes Hud and with that I say goodnite again for good this time.
Chas,
Never saw your list from the open thread, even though I gave you a boost. Were you just talking out of your butt again, like when you lied about bolding the father’s name in the obit?
Thought the clergy frowned on lying. Guess you are more of a do as I say, not as I do ‘pastor’ eh?
I was just thinking . . . Wouldn’t it be a pickle if John McCain picked Condoleeza Rice as his running mate? After Hillary steals the nomination from Barack, I wonder if the African-American vote swings to the possible first black, oh, and first woman Vice President? One would think that the black vote and the woman vote could unite and elect the would-be next in line. Oh, and did I mention that she would have ten times more experience than either Barack or Hillary. Just a thought.
Just what we need…Dubya’s girlfriend to carry on his failed policies. It’ll be bad enough if McCain gets it.
ten times more experience than either Barack or Hillary. Just a thought
Yea – and all of it running FAILED policies. Just what we need – someone with a lot of experience in ABJECT FAILURE!
KsGrm is just an angry old Flamer and Baiter…
Granny — I havent belittled anybody here today… they really do make pills for your delusions!!
Could be most interesting to see how Condi would introduce her girlfriend that owns her house with her, eh??
About that list lying chas.
littlejohn
Posted March 14, 2008 at 6:07 pm | Permalink
“Obama is either as crazy as Pastor Wright, or Obama is a coward for not getting in Wrights face and telling him he was wrong.”
Here is where we part company. Perhaps he did get in Wrights face. I do not consider Obama crazy or a coward. I think only so much can be made with the guilt by association. I think you crossed it.
==============================================
Good post… Strong point!! :-)
Sol — My not posting some list that you think you need is NOT LYING…
Youre smart enough to know that, unless you are under the influence of something….
If you can spew your opinions all over a Blog in Kansas, when you live in Michigan… I do believe I am entitled to my opinion of Dr. Paul… And since I posted it as an OPINION… I dont need you or anybody else to try to act like you need a list…. Anybody here is entitled an opinion, and thats just the way it goes…
If you dont like it, I suggest you find a Blog to spew on up yonder in Michigan…
I think I am about ready to post my opinion of what Dr. Wright had to say as well… based on listening to about 3 or 4 of his more radical sermons…
In my opinion, Dr. Wright was over the line for his content in a Sunday Sermon… Such remarks would have been much better stated in some kind of study group… NOT during a Sunday service of the Congregation…
The least he could do is offer some kind of apology — to his congregation — to the Black Community — and even to Sen. Obama.
Chas.
Posted March 14, 2008 at 8:01 pm | Permalink
Could be most interesting to see how Condi would introduce her girlfriend that owns her house with her, eh??
Chas what are you saying? Are you infering that Condi is gay? Humm, do you have a problem with that.
Wow if you are right the repubs could have a trifecta – first woman vp, first black vp and first lesbian vp.
You shouldn’t start these rumors you know. That isn’t very kind of you.
Not my rumor, KsGrm… that one has been around for a LONG time… And, yes, it could be most interesting… IF the RNC would go for it… I certainly have no problem with Condi being gay… Do you???
First concert pianist VP as well… She is a master at the Piano Keyboard!!
Here ya go KsGrm. As i said, NOT my rumor!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-rogers/yes-condi-it-is-relevan_b_64491.html
She finds the absolutly most attractive shoes too! They compliment her excellent taste in clothing and jewelry very well. I admire how well “turned out” she always appears! She works out and keeps herself fit, obviously takes great pride in her appearance.
I don’t admire the job she does and actually consider her just another incompetent among the many who comprise bushco, but she looks great doing it!
She certainly does, Linda… I sort of feel sorry for her, though… Being a Woman from the “evil” western world, sent into the midst of Radical Islamic Zealots, and being expected to be taken seriously… by the Administration that thinks the war in the middle east is somewhat “romantic” (Bush – in a speech today)
Just cant make this stuff up!!
Well, I am outta here for tonite… Busy busy weekend for Palm Sunday… You all have a good weekend and may the best basketball teams WIN!!
Good night; Good luck; God bless,
Whatever you conceive God to be!!
Blessings All!!
Yeah, I read that. He is amazing, isn’t he?
“I must say, I’m a little envious,” Bush said. “If I were slightly younger and not employed here, I think it would be a fantastic experience to be on the front lines of helping this young democracy succeed.”
“It must be exciting for you … in some ways romantic, in some ways, you know, confronting danger. You’re really making history, and thanks,” Bush said.
January 20, 2009. we have a short time to be on the alert! He really can cause more damage to our country and we must be ever vigilant. On that day — 1/20/09 — there will be MUCH celebrating!
rfl: “You’re right, I am not the model of objectivity. I will jump on every opportunity to assail a candidate that I feel is the worst choice for my country just like you will do the same for your worst choice. I am biased just like you are. Okay?”
Uhm, no. I don’t do that. I don’t regurgitate everything that I come across, every innuendo, or every rumor even against the candidate I think is the worst choice.
I am better than that.
You are not.
That is the difference between us.
End of story.
Max, if you were famous, you would be every bit as big a liability to a candidate you supported as Jerimiah Wright would be to Obama.
ksag, She (Max) is famous. Ask her about her building business, her son who almost has completed his PhD or her daughter whom she home schools. Ask about the work she does with pregnant women who need assistance. Ask about the dogs she breeds and raises or her skills on the shooting range…
Linda, are you thinking Max equals G. Sheridan?
I really don’t think so myself.
G. Sheridan and Max hold almost identical economic and social economic views, but she was also an outspoken defender of evolution, and while she sometimes defended conservative Christians she made it very clear that she was not one herself. This is as I recall anyway.
Max is an across the board conservative, religious, ecomimic social, and also I now suspect a racist. I don’t think G. Sheridan would have accused Chas. of being demon possessed.
At one point I also would have said that G. Sheridan was more of an intentional troll, but now I suspect Max has very trollish tendancies.
Both also tend to lob flame bombs. I think G. Sheridan, however, like a Regular, had tongue thoroughly in cheek.
I think Max, on the other hand, is serious.
most fascinating Linda… hmmmm….
Let me know if my theory about who you think Max is is correct. I, of course, could be wrong.
“Max is an across the board conservative, religious, ecomimic social, and also I now suspect a racist.”
BTW, I am not saying conservative equals racist. I am speaking strictly from my impressions of Max based on what he(?) has posted.
As an Afro-Caribbean man I thought I understood the African American experience until I visited and studied in Atlanta. There is alot that we will not begin to understand of what centuries of hatred did to a nation and a people. Finally, we are beginning to see a movement away from Rev. Wright’s rhetoric; views which may be held by many African Americans of his generation based on their personal experience. Obama’s generation and beyond are aware of these sentiments and cannot ignore it completely. But it is clear that Obama himself has represented views that are more unifying and seek to call the African American people and the country on a whole to heal. Others on the outside will fail to understand unless they open their minds and be open to the conversation about what the issues really are. We still don’t fully understand each other.
At the same time, it disturbs me that anyone who notes and acknowledges that the government of America has made decisions on behalf of the country that have caused harm to other nations and other people, is automatically labelled as anti-American. That argument is not logical. Yes, unfortunately and regretably, every government has leaders that make decisions or justifications that have untoward consequences. Lets acknowledge that! I love my parents, but they have made mistakes. I love myself, but I’ve made mistakes. I’m NEITHER anti-parents nor anti-self!!! And let me state for the record, I am certainly NOT anti-American and neither is Barack Obama. I might even go so far as to suggest, neither is (former marines) Rev. Wright. Finally, isn’t it possible to just hate the sin but love the sinner?
Nice, interesting post, Kevaun — Thanks!!
A poem by Rev. G. A. Studdert-Kennedy, titled:
“Indifference.”
When Jesus came to Golgotha
they hanged Him on a tree,
They drove great nails through hands and feet, and made a Calvary;
They crowned Him with a crown of thorns,
red were His wounds and deep,
For those were crude and cruel days,
and human flesh was cheap.
When Jesus came to our town,
they simply passed Him by,
They never hurt a hair of him,
they only let Him die;
For men had grown more tender,
and they would not give Him pain,
They only just passed down the street,
and left Him in the rain.
Still Jesus cried, “Forgive them,
for they know not what they do,”
And still it rained the winter rain
that drenched Him through and through;
The crowds went home and left the streets
without a soul to see,
And Jesus crouched against a wall
and cried for Calvary.
Oh yea!!
Not everyone can say they support any (political) thing their Pastor says so why would ANYONE hold Obama to a different standard WRIGHT or wrong?
http://OsiSpeaks.com
Politics ain’t bean bag, as an old-school Dem once noted.
Obama had to make a decision.
He made his decision.
This controversy had to happen. We had to have this debate.
If we did not?
What, exactly, is this great “Change” Obama speaks of?
Proverbs 6:16-19: These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Max,
I know it is late, but if you get this in the morning or later, so be it.
Don’t be fooled by Chas’s answer. He left a huge condition on his answer. “For Christians”
Once again, Chas gets around the questions.
They were meant to be a universal truth question, not an “only for Christians” question.
He basically eluded the questions once more.
Chas,
So, if someone is not a Christian, they don’t need faith in Jesus to be saved?
Wow I’m really impressed at how upset white people get!
I’m white myself. I’ve lived in the midwest and the south, and I’ve always wondered how the folks who insist that “black people should just get over it” would react if they were discriminated against themselves.
Now we know! One “radical” black preacher has got a zillion people in hysterics because he said some negative things about white people. lol!
Look at yourselves. How do you think black people feel when folks like David Duke get elected?!
…or how gay people feel when scum like donnie mcclurkin are invited by obama to PREACH for thirty minutes at an obama fundraising event?
…or how gay people feel when obama REFUSES to apologize for having mcclurkin do so?
I have never said anything like this about a black person or a brown person or a pink person. To me we are all people. If everyone acted that way we wouldn’t have race issues in this country.
Why is it ok for the blacks to use these types of racist comments? It should be wrong for anyone to talk about anyone this way. Regardless of which direction the racism is going it is WRONG. And I do not want my president to be a close friend of someone that talks like this.
Don’t say he isn’t close to Wright because he called him his mentor. They have known each other for 20 years.
Nathan
Posted March 15, 2008 at 1:29 am | Permalink
Max,
I know it is late, but if you get this in the morning or later, so be it.
Don’t be fooled by Chas’s answer. He left a huge condition on his answer. “For Christians”
Once again, Chas gets around the questions.
They were meant to be a universal truth question, not an “only for Christians” question.
He basically eluded the questions once more.
Nathan
Posted March 15, 2008 at 1:29 am | Permalink
Max,
I know it is late, but if you get this in the morning or later, so be it.
Don’t be fooled by Chas’s answer. He left a huge condition on his answer. “For Christians”
Once again, Chas gets around the questions.
They were meant to be a universal truth question, not an “only for Christians” question.
He basically eluded the questions once more.
=============================================
Some people are just never satisfied!!
Chas, Do you owe answers to anyone who participates on this discussion board? Will you be held accountable in any way that counts by anyone on this board? I’m fine with letting their posts stand on their own merit (or lack of) without me participating. Maybe you would be fine with that too? Or not.
Linda, when I am demeaned, and challenged by Max and Nathan, seems to me that some kind of retaliation is needed… Otherwise, I dont mind so much
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjvNSpsPu1k
I really shouldn’t have stuck my nose in. I don’t always know what’s best for me, and for sure don’t know what’s best for another adult. Sorry. I will bug out. Until next time when I don’t. Some posts don’t deserve the recognition of a response and sometimes I’m able to control myself and not give the satisfaction of a rebuttal. Sometimes. ;-)
Kansas plays again in a few minutes. Sure hope they bring a better game today.
I have a corned beef in the oven. Last year at this time I got tips from farmgrrl and fixed the best corned beef ever! I’m going on memory trying to duplicate her tips. Memory don’t fail me now!
Obama: “Can we give away the wealth of our country to the third world? ”
Crowd: “Yes We Can!”
Obama: “Can we call Hillary Clinton for what she is, a mainstream D.C. Democrat who has lost touch?”
Crowd: “Yes We Can!”
Obama: “Can I get a cigarette?”
Crowd: (silence)
CHANGE
“Obama: “Can we give away the wealth of our country to the third world? ””
Do you mean like spending $1 trillion on Iraq?
Good luck on those Tips, Linda… I am doing some boiled cabbage for Monday… cant afford the beef brisket down here… I think in TX, beef brisket is next to gold!! LOL
When do you get out of Huntsville Chas?
About the same time you get out of Leavenworth!!
Still catting around in Houston Chas?
Or have you moved to one of the ‘burbs?
Walk on by!!! Walk on by!!!
Chas,
Of course I am not satisfied. You keep claiming to not only be a Christian, but an authority in Christianity.
On every occasion you have the chance to clarify any misunderstandings you say that I have about you and what you believe, you choose to obfuscate instead.
Nathan, I give you sstraight answers… and yeet you stil dont get it… or you refuse to get it… I am not sure which… You question any authority I have in my field of endeavor, even with 30+ years experienhce!! Can yo u say the same?? I doubt it!! Now, who is obfuscating here???
Chas,
No, you gave a condition of “for Christians” when you answered the questions.
You know exactly what you are doing. You are a master at avoiding these questions and refusing to answer.
So once again, (without the condition of “for Christians”), yes or no:
If someone is worshiping anything other than Jesus then they are worshiping a false idol?
Is faith in Jesus the only way to salvation, and if He is not, what other ways are there then?
“If someone is worshiping anything other than Jesus then they are worshiping a false idol?”
you mean like you worship guns?
Nathan, you arent so stupid asd to think that NON Christians would believe in Jesus as the way to Salvation, are you??
My answer is VERY specific… The answer to your questions, one more time… Read carefully now… Dont be confused….
THE ANSWER TO BOTH OF YOUR QUESTIONS IS… YES… FOR CHRISTIANS!!!
Chas,
That is not the question.
Do you believe that non-Christians are worshiping false gods?
Better yet, is there only one true God in your opinion?
If someone considers a Golden Calf to be a god and Christians consider Jesus to be the only one true God do you think they are both correct or is Jesus the only one true God or is the Golden Calf the only one true god?
Nathan says >>>>
“If someone considers a Golden Calf to be a god and Christians consider Jesus to be the only one true God do you think they are both correct or is Jesus the only one true God or is the Golden Calf the only one true god?”
Nathan, that is, of course, a riduculous fallacious question. Reason: It depends on what the individual believes. As Christians we believe Jesus is a part of the one true God-head. What a NON-Christian believes will, naturally, NOT be what we believe. Why would you even ask such a question?
And, the question is even more silly, since I dont know of ANY religion in the world at this time that believes a Golden Calf is the one true God!!
And yes, you are right, I wont step into your dumb little trap, because it is just a dumb, stupid fallacy!! Ask a REAL Question… I already answered your other two questions, but you didnt like the answers…
As I said once before, some people are never satisfied!! LOL
Chas,
And that is why you are no Christian.
That post was mine.
Nathan, do you not believe that somebody else, in some other culture, has the RIGHT to believe in whatever God they want??
Chas,
The “right” to believe in whatever god you want to has nothing to do with that god being the one true God or not.
Your complete inability to grasp that is disturbing.
Let me put it this way Chas:
There can only be one truth and it is not only applicable to Christians.
Either Jesus is the one true Lord and Savior for EVERYONE or he isn’t.
If you don’t believe that Jesus is the one true Lord and Savior for EVERYONE then you are no Christian.
Then, I guess you’re not a Christian, Nathan!!
My God is a LOT bigger than that!! Sorry, chum!!
Chas,
Exactly what is your god bigger than?
I don’t think you could be any more vague.
One Trackback
[...] Read the rest of this great post here [...]