Many are to blame for the Abu Ghraib prison debacle, which continues to haunt U.S. foreign relations and sent 11 soldiers to jail. But the media? So says Lynndie England, the former U.S. Army private who posed with a naked prisoner on a leash and with a pyramid of naked prisoners. “If the media hadn’t exposed the pictures to that extent, then thousands of lives would have been saved,†she told the German magazine Stern.
England also claimed that former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and President Bush had to know what was going on at the prison. “How could he (Rumsfeld) have not known? And Bush? He’s the headman,†England said.
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65 Comments
Bush voter?
Typical of a low-life criminal to blame all and sundry– except, of course, for herself. She’s whining because she got caught, that’s all.
Not one to take much responsibility is she?
I hope the media continues to expose the atrocities of this war. Americans have a right to know what those who represent us abroad are doing. They also need to be punished on the world stage so other countries know that we won’t tolerate it.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/24/080324fa_fact_gourevitch
The real deal.
http://www.doc.state.mn.us/publications/backgrounders/documents/sexoffenderbackgrounder9-07.pdf
Evidence supporting my contention that sex offenders are an ever-increasing proportion of the prison population, though not quite for the reasons I expected.
Lynndie England is just a pawn in the overall scheme of things. Anybody who was surprised by Abu Ghraib doesn’t understand how the military operates.
Expecting humanity in a war…oxymoron for morons.
England was the scapegoat for the administration, and so were many others. Of course, those who defend the Administration will NEVER admit to it, but they know…they know the Bush, Rumsfeld are involved.
Why does this surprise anyone? The same thing happened with Hanoi Jane when she bolstered the morale of the VC by verbally attacking her own country. According to the leaders at that time - it encouraged them to continue the fight when they were close to caving in.
The media will never take responsibility for the anti-American sentiment they create all over the world that encourages attacks upon our citizens, soldiers and allies.
But, yes, they bear responsibility.
There is definitely blood on their hands.
No doubt the story had to come out. But there is also no doubt that irresponsible American and foreign media orgs sensationalized the coverage and published every photos they could get their hands on. And they kept doing it.
In doing so, they inflamed and motiviated our enemies every time new photos came out and yes, American soldiers died because of it.
“In doing so, they inflamed and motiviated our enemies every time new photos came out and yes, American soldiers died because of it.”
————————————
Spot on.
did Americans die because the media published the photoes or because it happened at all?
Didn’t I hear that Lyndie England has an extremely low IQ? To the point where she’s almost retarded? Why is anybody listening to her anyway?
“did Americans die because the media published the photoes or because it happened at all?”
———————–
Because of the media.
“Typical of a low-life criminal to blame all and sundry– except, of course, for herself. ”
BERLIN - Lynndie England, the public face of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, told a German news magazine that she was sorry for appearing in photographs of detainees in the notorious Iraqi prison, and believes the scenes of torture and humiliation served as a powerful rallying point for anti-American insurgents.
If you took time to read the article you would have seen that she did take responsibility for her role in the scandal —
“Didn’t I hear that Lyndie England has an extremely low IQ? To the point where she’s almost retarded? Why is anybody listening to her anyway?”
——————
God only knows what you HEARD but she was targetted by the media and she deserves to defend herself and her reasoning.
She has that right, you know.
Dead Horse - beaten
Why do you hate our military Rhonda?
You only put the bad out there.
The Eagle is going to be like that Aussie Reporter that got ignored by the military if they keep this up.
“….. Yes, I was in five or six pictures and I took some pictures, and those pictures were shameful and degrading to the Iraqis and to our government,” she said, according to the report.
“And I feel sorry and wrong about what I did. But it would not have escalated …….”
IT IS NOT the media’s fault for documenting what happened. It is OUR fault for one, electing some nimrod into office, and TWO, for creating an environment where this was encouraged.
Reverse this situation, if the media reported that our military were being mistreated by their forces, would they be guilty of escalating the situation?
Come on, you Bush apologists claim to have this moral aptitude, so use it. It floors me how you ignore what we do as evil, but the very justification you use to topple Saddam and other ‘evils’ we are doing ourselves.
And if you think for one minute that if our media didnt’ report it then THEY wouldn’t know what was happening? WRONG.
We have a responsiblity to follow law, we’re supposed to be better people, remember?
Well, the media published the pictures to sell newspapers and beans on O’Rielly. That’s how the system works. The pictures were published FOR PROFIT. What do you moaners have against free enterprise?
“IT IS NOT the media’s fault for documenting what happened. ”
——————–
That is incorrect. Not only did the media sensationalize what was basically humiliation - not torture, they then went on to trash America for it.
Never did they compare the treatment of our soldiers at the hands of the enemy. They concentrated only on what England and her ilk did.
That’s dishonesty at is finest.
And it’s deadly.
Every reporter who took that low road has blood on his or her hands.
“Only” humiliation? That’s how you qualify what happened at Abu Graib?
:roll:
FYI, “mere” humiliation, in one form or another, has been a, if not THE, driving force behind every war ever fought by humans. For example, many historians view WWII as an extension of WWI. In this view, Adolf Hitler led a great nation, Germany, to a legacy of genocide in the 20th century. Why? According to his own writings and the observations of Germans closest to him, Hitler was driven beyond madness by his perception of gross humiliation handed Germany by the terms of the Trreaty of Versailles.
Torture is a bad thing, no doubt. SOME torture surely occurred at Abu Graib, as well as a LOT of humiliation of non-Americans by Americans. This humiliation is as bad (or worse: see WWII) than torture.
I ask you. If the US were occupied by a foreign army and saw some of its citizens unjustly jailed alongside insurgent US military not in uniform, and then “merely” humiliated, what would you think of the foreign power behind it? Would you support a war waged in the future on this foreign power? Would you contribute funds and energy to a war waged on this foreign power?
YOU, sir, are incorrect. By falsely trying to minimize the effects of humiliation, and instead trying to distinguish it from torture where torture is somehow “worse” than humiliation, you commit the same crime of dishonesty with which you condemn the media for its publication.
GOP circa 2008: a party whose members are currently incapable of understanding the effects of moral relativism.
Komrad: it’s all in your head. We saw the beheading tapes like eight jillion times, and were treated to non-stop coverage of the journalist beheaded in pakistan. Also we had thousands and thousands of prisoners, while the “enemy” has never held more than a few. Most of whom they killed. And journalists did not trash America; they trashed the administration responsible for policies which helped lead to the commission of atrocities by our troops. The administration is not America.
It wasn’t war repatriations demanded of Germany, it wasn’t torture of German soldiers by the French and the English (which occurred IRL) that led Hitler to madness.
It was his perception of HUMILIATION, “mere” humiliation, that reordered the world in 1945.
Go see the documentary “Taxi To The Dark Side” and you might find that it was a little more than “humiliation” that went on in Abu Ghraib. But you pro-torture, wastes of sperm won’t believe it anyway, cause that would be “Un American”.
“Dead Horse - beaten
“Why do you hate our military Rhonda?
“You only put the bad out there.
“The Eagle is going to be like that Aussie Reporter that got ignored by the military if they keep this up.”
Re: Regular
DNFTT
ksassgnostic appears to be addressing other posters yet once again instead of the topic.
He can’t help it, it’s a self-imposed limitation.
Lynndie needs to blame who is responsible.
That being the command structure that condoned and maybe even encouraged her and her socially bereft comrades.
[quote]FYI, “mere” humiliation, in one form or another, has been a, if not THE, driving force behind every war ever fought by humans. For example, many historians view WWII as an extension of WWI. In this view, Adolf Hitler led a great nation, Germany, to a legacy of genocide in the 20th century. Why? According to his own writings and the observations of Germans closest to him, Hitler was driven beyond madness by his perception of gross humiliation handed Germany by the terms of the Trreaty of Versailles.[/quote]
Hitler’s perception was nothing without an entire nation behind him. And it wasn’t humilation, it was reparations that angered the Germans of that time period.
Blaming others didn’t work at the Nuremberg trials. Why would any moral American on either side politically think it works now? Bad behavior is bad behavior. We’re suppoed to develop the ability to recognize it and refuse to be a part of it, even speak out against it. Bad things happen in war. Ok. But we don’t get to toss aside responsibility, or at least that’s what we told the Nazis.
What a weasel.
Ok, the Germans were angry because the reparations led to hyperinflation. Hitler, though, was angered by HUMILIATION.
If you’re still with us: Hitler was elected president, then had himself declared Führer and Chancellor. As Führer, his anger over humiliation led directly to WWII.
If you doubt the power of humiliation to drive the behavior of humans, you’re a bigger idiot even than you’ve shown yourself to be here.
Ever notice how radical left libs are obsessed with Nazis?
You know they have already lost their mojo in a discussion when they start with the “racist, Nazi, religious fanatic, etc.) rhetoric in to the fray.
But hey! It’s all they have.
“God only knows what you HEARD but she was targetted by the media and she deserves to defend herself and her reasoning.
She has that right, you know.”
She HAD that right at her trial. You see how well that worked out for her then. Now she is just a mentally retarded sex offender, an embarassment to the men and women in uniform, and we shouldn’t waste our time giving her media attention.
Regular
Posted March 21, 2008 at 9:11 am | Permalink
Ever notice how radical left libs are obsessed with Nazis?
—
No.
Unless stating this as received wisdom fits the agenda of a dipshit like you. THAT I understand perfectly. :D
Maybe Dennis Rader can blame the media for his actions.
You live in Virginia Pedant, go molest the bloggers there, you’re into molesting big time.
I know, it’s all you have, assigning racism to others, calling them neocons, religious fanatics, Nazi-like sympathizers and etc.
Keep a warm grip on your fuzzy little name-calling nouns and adjectives, your hate is the only thing that keeps you breathing.
:lol:
I’m pretty sure that if you try just a leetle harder then we can all get treated to some of that very special Regular prose. You know, when you write about testicles, flailing, impotence, and homosexuals and mix it all up in that really creepy voodoo you do.
Especially if we’re at the right place in your cycle. :D
Komrade, you dumb ass.
It wasn’t the media who did it so how can they be responsible for the consequences of it?
The Iraqis knew what was going on. The prisoners were throwing notes out and people were coming and going. Women even asked from prison to be killed because they couldn’t live with the shame of their sexual harassment.
If you remember (well, you probably don’t), Iraqis mortared the prison on more than one occasion for that very reason.
The media only made Americans aware of what the Bush Administration policies were.
And that of course is why you’re so p!ssed off.
As for the media gleefully jumping on this story, nothing could be further from the truth.
The New York Times admitted it sat on the story for months until another news agency said it was going to run it.
Dan Rather in his lawsuit against CBS has alleged that CBS refrained from breaking the Abu Ghraib story to appease Bush/Rove.
Even today, you can’t see a single flag-draped coffin on the evening news because of BushCo. policies to hide the consequences of
Worst.
War.
Ever.
So who cares about Dan “buy forged documents to make up a news story” Rather?
When in doubt, it’s the MEDIA that is at fault.
Wasn’t that Nixon’s excuse, too?
Of course the NYTimes tried to keep it quiet. This was embarassing to the cheerleaders for the war.
I wonder what part of the mysterious P.O. Box numbered “12345″ that Rather did not understand about the documents being forged?
Maybe it was because the information in the forged documents was accurate data, according to whats the lady who looked at them said at the time??
And there is still that $10,000 reward to ANYONE that can prove that they served with George AWOL Bush in the Alabama National Guard.
So far, unclaimed.
IIRC, isn’t this the story that The New York Times didn’t run until after the 2004 elections . . .
prompting a lot of folks to wonder what would happened had we seen it when they knew about it.
Isn’t it hilarious to hear the reich-wing who claims to believe in “individual freedoms” say that the Bush government should be able to tell the media what stories can and can’t run.
The old communist-haters want our media turned into Pravda.
Not just that Capn but also to hear the Party of “personal responsibility” chime in with “the media made me do it”
The one valid thing she said was “Donald Rumsfeld and President Bush had to know what was going on at the prison.”
The two most telling events I can recall of US media coverage showed the opposite ends of a complex society. The worst, the CNN split screen images of water trucks finally getting to those folks in the New Orleans Dome just as Bush arrived in that crushed city, a Rove arranged photo-op. The best, American kids hugging and comforting their distraught Japanese counterparts whom they had beaten to win the Little World Series. Funny what sticks in your mind when seen from afar.
Finally, A suitable running mate for Obama emerges….
I have to give it to England for having a little bit of intelligence. Can’t say much for her “social skills”, I think someone put it. Abu comes down to the NCO’s. Had there been decent NCO’s it would have never happened, at least by the enlisted.
For anyone who has ever been in the military, that is one of the first things you are taught. There is a thing called and illegal order, you are not required to follow it. You of course will be arrested, you will have to be able to back up your claim at trial. What failed here was the NCO’s not policing there own people. As an NCO I would never have let my people do any of the stuff that occured at Abu. As an NCO I would have stopped anyone I found doing this type of stuff. But since the alledged NCO’s over England was having sex with her, I’m not surprised that what happened was allowed to happen.
As to her statement about the media, absolutely dead on. OF COURSE Al quida and Al jazerra and the rest were just screaming bloody murder about the photos, they saw the reaction of the US media and the liberals.
I can picture their reaction now.
“Hey amed, the americans are all torn up about some of their soldiers, making men get naked and forming a pyramid. One of the persons from Air America, Randi Rhodes, said it was the most disgusting, sickening things she had ever seen.”
“Yes Ali, and these same americans had no problem with us killing, burning, and hanging the bodies of contractors from a bridge. They had no problem with us decapitating people. They had no problem with all the things Saddam, Uday and Husay did, but they are all torn up about some pictures of and ugly american soldier putting a leash on a prisoner. HA HA.
“If this doesn’t show the weakness of the americans and how to weaken their resolve, nothing will. Osama was right, when he pointed out back in the 90’s how weak the americans were when Bill Clinton pulled the americans out of somalia because of pictures of american soldiers being dragged through the street, right Ali”
“Thats right Amed, also the weakness of the americans when we bombed their ship the Cole. We killed how many americans and NOTHING happened to us. HA HA. How I love the american media and the US liberals for bad mouthing their country and administration and being as weak as always.”
Inflamed by the media, my ass!! The WAR CRIMES inflamed the entire world.
Oh if only we could have kept our dirty little secrets of criminal abuse a secret, all would be well.
I know, let’s suspend freedom of the press! Will that satisfy you endless war supporters???
The longer the war goes on the more desperate its supporters become to find someone to blame for their own errors.
I can’t believe people are still defending the actions of those who perpetrated the incidents at Abu Ghraib. Humiliation?! Well then, I guess we had people DYING from humiliation. Because several prisoners were tortured to DEATH. Not to mention the raping of women and boys. Komrade, you disgust me. I would really appreciate it if you would leave my country because we don’t want or need slimeballs like yourself.
What Gene Ralston ignores is that half of the interrogators in Abu Ghraib were “private contractors” that didn’t have to answer to anyone nor were they subject to any law, US or Iraqi.
You can’t make war profiteers out of your pals if you don’t have “private contractors.”
Appears to me the people involved have been punished and actions taken to correct the situation.
The only people, as usual, that are piling on are the Radical Left Libs who will use tragic circumstances to promote their political ideology.
The Radial left libs are the ghouls of the political world, feasting on the decayed flesh of political events and sucking marrow out of dead bones.
They aren’t worth the time to piss on their heads.
Good trick to try, Regular. Turn from the matter at hand (that the media is to blame for doing its duty in reporting the abuses) and call your political opponents names.
That dog don’t hunt no more, buster.
“The Radial left libs are the ghouls of the political world, feasting on the decayed flesh of political events and sucking marrow out of dead bones.”
McCreepy recently read a selection from Edgar Allan Poe and now is doing his best to imitate America’s premier poet.
McCreepy is a McLoser lost in a wannabe world.
Not a trick David B.
This story was reported initially, it was reported again, it was revisited and reported, specials were made on it, it was talked about on radio, it was re-investigated, there was was re-reporting of the re-investigations, blah blah and blah.
This is piling on, kicking dirt in people’s faces, kicking them while they are down, stirring up rancor on an subject that is in our past. Steps have been made to correct it.
Radical left libs like their marriages are short and full of mutual hatred. They keep bringing up things in the past that are irrelevant to what is going on currently.
This is about pouring salt in the wound. If you want to talk about torture, talk about the Media torture of the American psyche and the damage it does all done by the Main Stream Media.
The actions of a few only reflects on the few that did the foul deeds. Evidently this Lynndie England was a real idiot for doing such things, as were her superiors letting her getting away with it. They were punished, case closed.
As I said before, it’s all the Radical left has is hate. They live it, breathe and smear it’s fecal-like consistency around as much as possible.
I live with my sister. I am pure. I have never consorted with a woman.
I let my grand daughter sit on my lap when I get wood She likes it a lot just like my daughters did
“This is piling on, kicking dirt in people’s faces, kicking them while they are down, stirring up rancor on an subject that is in our past.”
Just forget about it, it’s in the past - like WMD and 9/11 + Saddam Hussein.
This is the basic Republic Party platform - if we screw up - just forget about it.
Yawn…
More of the usual wild arm flailings and ad hominems from little jimmymac — who is blinded from reality by his rabid hatred of liberals.
i luv it when al gore shuvs it rite up my sierra
People who cannot defend their invalid opinions on a blog often instead try to disrupt it.
Regular posted March 19, 2008 at 5:13 pm
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/03/open-thread-319/#comment-316172
“It looks like Brownlee won’t do anything with this blog, so I’m whipping out blog mayhem and torture.
Be prepared to get ugly spilled upon you.
Brownlee wants this blog to be amateur hour, well here it comes.
You’ll never know when it strikes.“
She is nothing but white trash. I don’t know why the Army even took her to begin with. They must be really desparate these days.
Of course they’re desperate, with an all volunteer army and an illegal, senseless war..anyone with brains is going to stay away from it all.
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[...] Army private who posed with a naked prisoner on a leash and with a pyramid of naked prisoners. …http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/03/media-did-not-humiliate-torture-prisoners/"A War Of Sexual Humiliation" Let me add to the chorus of those expressing their total [...]