Kansans’ famously strong faith surely affects their presidential preferences, right? Not necessarily, according to a new SurveyUSA poll, sponsored by KWCH-TV, Channel 12 in Wichita. In the poll, timed to the flap over Barack Obama’s pastor, 39 percent said religion would play no role in their choice of a president, compared with 30 percent each who said it would play a minor or major role. And 56 percent said it was unfair to judge those in a church’s congregation by a religious leader’s controversial statements.
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We should consider carefully what the message is of those who support candidates. Because consider this:
http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html
“Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a “war” against the “false religion” of Islam with the aim of destroying it.
On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a “strong, true, consistent conservative.” The endorsement was important for McCain, who at the time was trying to put an end to the lingering challenge from former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a favorite among Christian evangelicals. A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain’s effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a “spiritual guide.”
Now I don’t know about you, but calling out the ENTIRE nation of Islam (1million worldwide) in the middle of a war where a lot of them question just how much we’re trying to ‘liberate’ them, just does not seem to be a good idea. We need to be making friends with Islamic leaders who are mainstream, forward thinking, who we can help defeat extremists. Not push them closer to extremists.
There may be hope for Kansas, yet.
39 percent said religion would play no role in their choice of a president, compared with 30 percent each who said it would play a minor or major role.
————-
So, 60-40. About what you would expect.
Double standard?
Don Imus : three seconds from hours worth of broadcasting, says “Nappy headed hoe.” Fired.
Rev.[sic] Wright: Tireless sermons preaching hate against whites. Free pass.
BTW,
Obama called for Imus’ firing. Wright? Not so much…
Where is the thread about McCain’s “spiritual adviser”?
Where is the thread about McCain’s grasp of the Middle East and who is who, what is what?
Where is the thread that shows how mentally competent McCain is?
Finally, where are the comments about why McCain should should be POTUS, what are his qualifications, strengths, skills?
Not one word about Obama eh lindainks55? Not surprising though, blame others when something goes wrong is the mantra of the leftist.
I’m sure Obama has done some ‘Honkie’ hate speech in his life time more than once. He has had to peel off his racist rancor one layer at a time as of late, because he got caught.
According to the leftist Lib standard if you tolerate it, you are racist.
Guess what? Obama tolerated it for 20 years.
This thread is about judging a candidate by his pastor. Did McCain drop out of the race and is no longer a candidate? Or is it that you, Regular, still have the mistaken idea that you get to decide who and what may be discussed. Well, talk away. The adults on the board will easily carry on without you since you add nothing of interest.
heh, you dont think Wichita might be a little sensitive to this question, given how many folks down there were judged as part of terry fox’s congregation, or joe wright’s congregation?
And seems like folks in Wichita are quick to condem the followers of fred phelps. But Wright, not so much?
Terry, joe and fred. What a trifecta. Maybe we need to add jeremiah to that list?
I’m sure Obama has done some ‘Honkie’ hate speech in his life time more than once
Amazing. So have I, and I’m a cracker.
heh kfg, the sting of ‘he who is without sin’ is coming back to haunt the Obama Trauma supporters.
McCain is the turd that stinks on ice. Piss poor economic understanding. Piss poor foreign policy. Easy.
There’s no reporting on McCain’s pastor because there is nothing to report.
Your choice of a pastor is only an issue when you form a long term 20 year relationship with someone as controversial as Wright.
Loot at the hell they gave Romney for being Mormon.
When there is something to dig-up, the press is usually able to find it, especially if it’s on a Republican candidate.
Lessor of two evils, Sol.
I’m looking for bumper stickers:
McCain Sucks Less then Clinton
McCain Sucks Less then Obama
I’ve seen those bumper stickers, Max. Only the last 3 words were missing.
McCain:A new way to spell mediocrity!
No charge Max.
Why is it so hard for the media to grasp what the issue is?
The issue is not about judging a candidate by his Pastor.
The issue is about judging a cnadidate by the company he keeps!
Obama calls this man his mentor, credited him in his book, attended church with the man, was married by him, his children were baptized by him, and he had the man as a spiritual advisor.
Now all of a sudden Obama claims ignorance on the Pastor’s views?
Sorry. The issue is about how Obama could never have known these things about the Pastor (so he claims) and that he waited until now to disavow the things the man was saying.
The Pastor is on record for saying things like this since just after 9/11. I am only too sure more things will come out from before 9/11.
It is absurd to think that Obama knew nothing of these kinds of comments and that if he did he didn’t take a stronger stand on them until now when he is running for President.
The issue never was about simply judging someone by their Pastor.
The issue is about the company you keep.
All Trent Lott did was make an innocent comment about Strom Thurmond for his birthday and the media and liberals never gave him a break.
Look at Don Imus. There are a multitude of examples of people that the liberals and black community raked over the coals over far less. Now all of a sudden Obama should get a free pass.
The total and complete hypocrisy the liberals are showing now is tragic.
Rev.[sic] Wright: Tireless sermons preaching hate against whites. Free pass.
Actually, he was preaching hate against the white power structure. His reasoning was decidedly loopy, but he didn’t say anything about white people in general.
There are white members in his congregation, you know.
Not that I particularly care for that type of fire-and-brimstone sermonizing. I prefer my pastor (oh wait. . .I don’t have one). But exactly how–and why–should he be defrocked from the UCC? Are you serious?
By the way, I think Obama made the wrong call on Imus, though I thought it was a thoughtlessly stupid thing for him to say.
The issue is about judging a cnadidate by the company he keeps!
It couldn’t be–McCain would be a goner for sure.
_____________________________________________
I prefer my pastor (oh wait. . .I don’t have one)
That’s the best kind!
America was in outrage over Imus’ “Nappy headed” comment.
Hatred of American and whites from Rev[sic] Wright? Not so much.
Free pass. A racist is a racist is a racist.
America was in outrage over Imus’ “Nappy headed” comment.
No, the electronic media and Al Sharpton were in an outrage, tabloid-head. Most people in the real world didn’t really care that much about it either way.
nobody worried about the company obama was keeping when the “company” was mcclurkin, one of the most hateful and bigoted homophobes in the country.
Seems like obama, while keeping himself above the mud, sure seems to keep “company” with a lot of bigots.
Corporate advertising pulled out. Boycotts on corporations’ products . Sounds like a few more than tabloid heads.
nobody worried about the company obama was keeping when the “company” was mcclurkin, one of the most hateful and bigoted homophobes in the country.
And, as I’ve repeatedly noted earlier, that should be far more upsetting to people than this crap.
The hypocrisy I see is that those who are making the most of all this were never going to vote for Obama. Now they have something else to be outraged about. Makes more sense than trying to find anything positive about McCain. That would be hard!
And then there is mcclurkin. Seems to me Obama keeps the company of haters. Maybe there is something more to him than meets the eye. I’ve heard you can polish a turd.
There is nothing positive about McCain.
Now that hypocrisy is called into play, I could just as easily call it on you Linda. Seems in this thread alone you have evoked the mummy’s name.
I am a slightly wavering supporter of Hillary Clinton. Right now, she is sorely disappointing me. The worst part is me accepting (once again) that I won’t get to go vote FOR someone. That’s hard to swallow and another disappointment. But I still have the joy that bush is limited to two terms. That’s what I’ll think about. Oh, and basketball! See, bright and shiny objects to distract.
I could have sworn that Rev. Wright was no longer the pastor of Obama’s church anymore. Am I wrong?
Corporate advertising pulled out. Boycotts on corporations’ products . Sounds like a few more than tabloid heads.
Famously, one woman managed to get several advertisers to drop “Married with Children,” and several episodes were pulled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Rakolta
But, yeah, I concede this much: the non-stop coverage made people talk about it, much as they blather about Britney Spears.
Yeah, it was offensive, but life goes on.
TDT,
I think he stepped down this year. Doesn’t erase the 20 years Obama went there. How much money has Obama given this hater?
Yeah, it was offensive, but life goes on.
Not so much for Imus. For Rev[sic] Wright? Yeah just another day. That sounds fair. One stupid comment vs. spewing hate. Yeah, yeah, that is fair.
Not so much for Imus. For Rev[sic] Wright? Yeah just another day.
Okay, explain for me, in something resembling a rational argument, what you think Obama should have done (I suspect “Die.” would probably be the most honest one).
The hypocrisy I see is that those who are making the most of all this were never going to vote for Obama.
Yeah, pretty obvious, ain’t it, Linda, though that doesn’t make what they say necessarily wrong. It’s like mining for gold: you have to sift through the ore to find the nuggets.
I would hope that any presidential hopeful would disavow the comments and the commenter. Would sever any ties with the same. To not do so seems to me to accept the comments.
And when Obama supporters, in light of the current scandal, cry McCain McCain, they get a free pass as well?
And when Obama supporters, in light of the current scandal, cry McCain McCain, they get a free pass as well?
Not from me.
In case you haven’t noticed, I don’t give anyone a free pass! :)
Don’t see you on Linda like you are on others.
lindainks55
Posted March 20, 2008 at 7:18 am | Permalink
Where is the thread about McCain’s “spiritual adviser”?
Where is the thread about McCain’s grasp of the Middle East and who is who, what is what?
Where is the thread that shows how mentally competent McCain is?
Finally, where are the comments about why McCain should should be POTUS, what are his qualifications, strengths, skills?
lindainks55
Posted March 20, 2008 at 7:38 am | Permalink
This thread is about judging a candidate by his pastor. Did McCain drop out of the race and is no longer a candidate? Or is it that you, Regular, still have the mistaken idea that you get to decide who and what may be discussed. Well, talk away. The adults on the board will easily carry on without you since you add nothing of interest.
Rage
Posted March 20, 2008 at 9:19 am | Permalink
The hypocrisy I see is that those who are making the most of all this were never going to vote for Obama.
Yeah, pretty obvious, ain’t it, Linda, though that doesn’t make what they say necessarily wrong. It’s like mining for gold: you have to sift through the ore to find the nuggets.
Rage and I have something going on. It’s a big secret and it’s illicit and fun. Now, talk about that!
Rage and Linda
Sittin in a tree….
It’s just funny for someone to call other posters hypocrites while the OP is guilty of the same, in the same thread :-D
If we were judged according to the people in our lives..we’d all be in big trouble.
Don’t see you on Linda like you are on others.
I’ve got the hotel room reserved, Linda! :)
For your information, Sol: I have neither the time nor inclination to respond to everything that gets posted. Linda said one thing that was relevant to our discussion, and I partially agreed with her.
Sheesh, next, you’ll be calling me a Nazi because I didn’t respond to Horst Wessell.
Sol – I see where you are coming from, thinking Obama should cut Rev. Wright out of his life, but from my point of view, I think it would be a flaw in his character if he were to cut this man out of his life due to them having different views. And I would also like to remind you that Obama is an intelligent person able to think for himself, and I can’t imagine that his opinion is going to be swayed by his pastor. I read a prayer given by Wright in the Kansas legislature that was very conservative, and I would have sworn he was a hard core Republican. However, as has been stated by so many of the Republicans on this blog, Obama is very liberal in his views and voting practices. So they do not see eye to eye on many things obviously. Also, I think Wright has a right to be angry. I personally have know idea what it would be like to be called nigger, or to grow up with the constant prejudice that a black man or woman has to deal with.
know = no, boy I feel dumb today
TDT…I don’t think it was the same Rev Wright that gave the opening prayer in Topeka that gets circulated around the internet all the time.
“Why is it so hard for the media to grasp what the issue is?
“The issue is not about judging a candidate by his Pastor.
“The issue is about judging a candidate by the company he keeps!
“Obama calls this man his mentor, credited him in his book, attended church with the man, was married by him, his children were baptized by him, and he had the man as a spiritual advisor.
“Now all of a sudden Obama claims ignorance on the Pastor’s views?”
So did you watch Obama’s speech? Have you actually bothered to read the book that Wright inspired?
Of course not. That would interfere with the little straw man sand castle you’re building (yes, I know, another mixed metaphor, this one also intentional).
It continues to fascinate me (but not surprise me) that right wingers now presume to be experts on what the Rev. Wright typically has said in his services based on some clips released by Faux that have gone viral on the internet.
And you aren’t even paying attention Nathan. Obama has not claimed “ignorance” of his pastor’s views.
Once again, here is the speech in its entirity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU&eurl=http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisownwords
I invite everyone to watch it and then see how well the comments of Nathan, Max, et. al. hold up to it.
Rage, you are a nazi. ;-)
The Reverand Wright who gave a divisive invocation before the Kansas Legislature was Joe Wright (who ksfarmgrrl listed in her trifecta), formerly of Central Christian Church, not Jeremiah Wright. Personally, I find one Wright’s comments fully as offensive as the other.
And I suspect that you would find a surprising number of Kansans who think the same way.
Me included.
If I were sitting In a pew and the –person speaking/leader of said church- started ranting that blacks were the scourge and downfall of this country, I would leave never to return.
Seems that Wright and Obama get a pass though.
How many of you here would remain in a church that promoted racial hatred/bias?
Yep Mary, you’re right. Should have looked closer at the names.
Sol, the reason I left “religion” was because every place I tried espoused hate and intolerance. I see it here from those who profess their “religion” loudest. And, no, I don’t equate religion with true believer.
The Wright flap is simply veiled racism.
http://tinyurl.com/232csx
Sol–
While not many churches get away with “racial hatred” anymore, Jerry Falwall a pillar of the Southern Baptist Convention said that the 9-11 terrorist attack was “God’s judgement for the US tolerating homosexuality.”
That’s the message that Regular and Nathan and Hank and outlander and parkay here Sunday after Sunday and have no problem with . . .
hear Sunday after Sunday
From a DemocraticUnderground post:
First off, I was an Edwards supporter and have then been a supporter of Senator Clinton, and I voted for her in the Wisconsin Primary. But I am floored. I just now got finished watching Obama’s entire speech (on youtube in 4 parts) and I feel something I have not felt during this entire campaign. Hope. There, I said it. And I’ll say it again. Hope. I am in tears after hearing Obama not try to weasel out of anything or excuse anyone’s words or deeds, nor push uncomfortable issues aside and hope they’ll go away, but rather tell the cold hard truth as he sees it. If Hillary had made this speech, well, she wouldn’t, would she? I have researched both their positions on the issues, and frankly, I think they are pretty damn close on most of them. The IWR vote needs to be looked at in it’s time and context, but was a wrong vote in hindsight. And although I’ve watched speeches by Hillary, none have moved me as this speech by Obama has moved me. It was a call for reconcilliation without shirking responsibility, and for progress and a move toward making changes now, but tempered with cold hard reality that it won’t occur quickly. It won’t occur this election cycle. It won’t occur easily. But I believe him when he says it can occur if we don’t run from racial issues and instead try open dialogue and needed action. There were no false promises, no weasel words, no bullshit. A politician has finally told the truth, took the risk of doing so, and stood firmly for what he believes, not what a poll tells him to believe. That, my friends, is integrity. I for one am grateful to have heard this.
As of this moment, I am supporting Barack Obama for President of the United States.
Jerry Falwall a pillar of the Southern Baptist Convention said that the 9-11 terrorist attack was “God’s judgement for the US tolerating homosexuality.”
I have no problem placing the same burdon on them. If McCain went to a church that preached hatred of homosexuals or blacks, I’d be saying the same thing.
It is still no free pass for Obama nor Wright.
If I were sitting In a pew and the –person speaking/leader of said church- started ranting that blacks were the scourge and downfall of this country, I would leave never to return.
Black complaining about White American is not the same as the reverse. Blacks actually have been discriminated against.
Whites, hardly.
It’s not at all the same thing.
Duh.
Also, Wright wasn’t saying that whites were the scourge and downfall of this country. He was saying that white racism and systematic discrimination is and should be condemned by God.
I totally agree with that.
Capn,
Looking at Obama’s speech and his continued affiliation with that church, it seems to me to be all talk. Actions speak louder. Is that the cold hard truth about Obama? That he truly is an eloquent speaker, but does not back his words with deeds?
Black complaining about White American is not the same as the reverse.
So then you support racism capn? Shame shame.
Racism is racism is racism no matter how you try to justify it capn.
Bush has aligned himself with pastors like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson who said exactly this.
Very little media outrage about that . . .
whoops, fogot to add duh
Racism is racism is racism no matter how you try to justify it capn.
That’s exactly it: blacks complaining and condemning the racism and discrimination they find in American society is not racism.
It’s fighting racism.
Get a clue, Sol.
Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson who said exactly this.
Can you provide some links that show them to be racist too?
It is creating, pandering to, and enforcing division. You should get a clue yourself capn.
How can you ever hope to stamp out racism when all your arguments are about race? Duh!
And while we’re on the guilt-by-association meme, Sol, maybe you can enlighten us as to why you aren’t all bent out of shape on Ron Paul’s neo-nazi support.
Anybody got any dramamine? The Capn is spinning so hard it’s making me nauseous.
Capn,
Uhm, maybe it is because Ron Paul never wrote a book inspired by neo Nazis. Maybe because RP doesn’t attend a church that spews neo Nazism. Duh.
Does your church allow gay pastors, outlander? I’ll bet they don’t even allow women pastors, like the Southern Baptists don’t.
But by all means, rail on about Obama’s pastor and how he said the dead obvious that blacks are still mad about slavery and Jim Crow . . .
But he did keep the money the Nazis gave him, right, Sol?
Dunno, got a link?
How much money did Obama give to the racist church capn?
Campaign donation vs. 20 years listening to a racist. Great comparison capn.
I appreciate you verifying it, Sol.
I thought it was just a nasty rumor, but apparently it’s for real by your own admission.
No need for me to defend Obama against a man who backs a candidate who accepts Nazi support.
And if people would rather read the speech, here it is;
http://wichitanaacp.blogspot.com/
He is more than just Obama’s pastor. Obama hisself described him as his spiritual advisor and mentor for the last 20 years.
Notice how quiet it got when I asked outlander about women pastors.
Let’s hope God the Mother has a sense of humor about that, outlander, you worshipper in house of sexist pigs.
Oh, crap.
We lost Billy “hisself’s” vote.
Now how can we ever win?!
Since he failed to disassociate himself from Rev Wright, I see the new Obama supporter strategy is to somehow justify the message the right Rev Wright preached. Don’t see that working either.
So Capn has got nothing, so he starts personally attacking those that do.
For those keeping score, that means that Capn loses.
Again.
Heh. I respect the fact that you don’t lie and say your church hires women pastors, outlander.
I don’t respect the fact that you attend the Church of the Sexist Pig, however.
Outlander – Have you watched the speech? Have you read it? Before you pontificate on what Obama did or did not say, you might want to read or watch the speech. Seriously, it’s getting annoying, because it’s obvious that most the people posting here against Obama and Rev. Wright have NOT.
TDT–
Of course you’re right.
The reich-wing wanted something to swift-boat Obama with, they were determined to find something, and this is it.
Actual reasoning has nothing to do with it.
In the great scheme of things, which is worse: going to a church in which the pastor condemns racism and discrimination by lashing out at those who do it (in perhaps intermperate terms)?
OR
going to a church that tells over half the population they aren’t good enough to be pastors because they weren’t born with a pen-is?
It was a very good speech TDT. But what a person does speaks so loud it drowns out the platitudes.
For the record, I haven’t attacked anyone, Obama included. I just comment on what’s going on.
Contrast that to Capn over there who’s only weapon is personal attacks, diversion, and half truths. He is faring about as well with that as a one-legged man at an a$$ kicking contest.
Capn,
Thanks for the cut and paste. I think that poster’s comments reflect what many felt in hearing that speech. When I was listening to the speech on the internet, my son asked me why I was listening to Obama – all I could think to say was “I think this man might be the real deal.”
I want to go on record as saying complaints of reverse discrimination is the first refuge of a scondrel. I know, I know, those of us who are white have had to leave many a town by sundown, we have had to eat in the kitchen of a restaurant, we’ve been denied loans and jobs because of our race… it has been real sad what we’ve had to endure because of our whiteness. As my son would say, “cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.”
And ksag, I was greatly amused by Nathan “I hate strawman arguments” Price being reduced to building a strawman as fast as he could. That is all these jokers have, and they know it.
Outlander had two chances to answer the question–how does he reconcile an anti-discrimination stance by attending a church that discriminates against women?
He calls it an “attack.”
I call it hypocrisy, and I hope in the words of Rev. Wright that God doesn’t damn you for it.
Outlander – Do you not feel that Obama getting up and addressing this incident, and racism head on rather than ducking and riding out the storm is action? I felt it was bold, and was also impressed that HE wrote the speech, not his speechwriters. Not only did he acknowledge the anger that many black americans feel, but he also addressed the resentment that many white americans feel. It didn’t condone it, but faced it as reality.
Capn; Just another tired personal attack on my religion. Yawn…
You see, in our church, if you don’t like the fact that we don’t have a female pastor, you can leave the congregation. You know, like Obama could have done had he been offended by Rev Wright’s racist rantings.
which is worse: going to a church in which the pastor condemns racism and discrimination by lashing out at those who do it
Like the government infecting and spreading AIDS to African americans?
Go smoke another one capn.
How much did Obama give this kook? And how much did the church donate to Obama.
BTW, I verified nothing. I asked you for a link to back you claim. Seems you wiffed on it.
The government spreading AIDs to African Americans. What a stand up guy. Sounds like you support that too capn, as you defend the good [sic] rev [sic]
No surprise, Republicans who don’t like Obama are less likely to vote for him because of his pastor. Why is anyone supposed to be surprised by this result?
Have you checked the polls Doug? Not just repubs taking note of the support of hatred.
Sol, I think a lot of people are taking note of the hatred and bigotry of Republicans.
So be it.
I can’t wait for BOTH parties to fall. Bush and McCain did it for the Neocons. Hill-Bill and Obama will do it for the Liberals. Time for both parties to regroup.
And it still doesn’t wash away Obama’s support of a racist liar.
I see that CraponAmerica has spurted for his daily spew. Does anyone even read his comments? And if so,why?
The Sunday School Teacher (cough, cough) that teaches his class the G D, F and N words so they can join Rev. Wright in radical left secularists to stick their appendages into the various stink hole topics that attract commiseraters to their level of self-created victimhood.
And it still doesn’t wash away Obama’s support of a racist liar.
Y’know, Sol, I’m sure you didn’t vote for the guy and all, but I seem to recall a few things from the Nixon tapes…
(Poor Nixon, all that intelligence and absolutely no wisdom–you record OTHER PEOPLE, not yourself!!!)
Fish,
I wans’t even a twinkle in my father’s eye when Nixon was prez.
Jeez, Sol, you’re such a young’un. And I thought you were an old man.
So Solly, Cholly! (sorry charlie) (ok, I was just punnin’ around)
Older than my years by a stretch. I think I might be ‘generation A’
Regular–
I am a Sunday School Teacher at my church. Of course, I don’t teach the kids I teach profanity.
I do use profanity on such occasion as I deem it necessary — like pointing out that you’re a sh!t head for instance.
Regular also goes to a church in which one must have a pen_is to be a pastor.
No surprise there. It’s easier for the preacher to be a d!ck that way . . .
It just dawned on me this Maundy Thursday–
if the Blessed Virgin were to be re-incarnated and step into the basilica in Rome, she still couldn’t be a priest.
“Our Lady” . . . yeah, right, thanks for your spotless womb, as for your brain, no thanks.
So about the AIDs bit Capn…
He was wrong.
Sue him.
Also, if Rev. Wright runs for office, I doubt that I would vote for him.
Anybody here made any honest attempt to prove Rev. Wright WRONG on what he has said??
Just got to thinking about that this morning… I havent heard anybody try to do that… Just shout, scream, and carry on about him being a racist…
And yet, McCain drifts onward with the endorsement of two of the most bigoted White preachers in the nation — Hagee and Parsely!!
No outrage over those endorsements?? Gee, could it be cause they are White preachers??
Just making an observation!!
“Anybody here made any honest attempt to prove Rev. Wright WRONG on what he has said??”
What Wright said about AIDS is absolute, lunatic bullsh*t.
Some of it was, unfortunately, dead on if extremely undiplomatically said.
“I see that CraponAmerica has spurted for his daily spew. Does anyone even read his comments? And if so,why?
“The Sunday School Teacher (cough, cough) that teaches his class the G D, F and N words so they can join Rev. Wright in radical left secularists to stick their appendages into the various stink hole topics that attract commiseraters to their level of self-created victimhood.”
Translation: Ohhhh, look at me. I’m provocative.
Re: Regular
DNFTT
BTW, Re: Regular
Obama has heard the same crap from his racist preacher for 20 years…and now he is surprised???
Give us a break!
chas,
care to defend the AIDs statments?
All I know aabout the AIDS statements is that I have heard that same thing from the gay community for over 20 years… It wasnt anything new to hear, as far as I was concerned…
Is that the only thing Wright said that you object to??
I remember when Rush Limbaugh spoke at the republican convention…maybe all you right wingers who are so happy to judge Obama need to clean up your own backyards.
Mary,
No.
Chas, No, but that is a good place to start. So do you agree with rev[sic] wright’s AIDs comments?
I’m really sorry to do this Capn.
But without a link, I must call BS on your 10:23 post.
I heard the same speech and was not inspired in the least.
And I begin to believe that Obama is damaging not only to himself but to the party.
This story is what it is. Some of us knew about it before it hit the big media. We held our fire.
It is not going away.
And we have the election to consider.
I’m sorry that Obama is wrong about hope and change and expecting good from the other side.
But as we see from this whole business centered on him…
It just isn’t the time.
Oh please, JR…why is your glass ALWAYS half empty?
I dont believe all the evidence is available on the question of the AIDS allegations… Thus, I dont have enough information to either agree or disagree… As said earlier, I have heard that argument for more than 20 years from people in the Gay community… So, the argument isnt new to me…
The 10:23 post was posted by me, JR, but it wasn’t written by me.
I reposted it from another post-er from another board.
*****
I would probably support Clinton if she ended up being the candidate. Better her than McBush.
But I sure don’t like how she’s running this campaign. She doesn’t hesitate to attack her fellow Democratic candidate: “he’s not electable because of Rev. Wright — McBush and I have experience, Obama does not — Clinton insisting that she should be the candidate despite Obama winning the popular vote and the elected delegates — Clinton hesitates to say Obama is NOT a Muslim.
The kicker is that Bill Clinton went on RUSH LIMBAUGH!?! for a 15 minute interview to appeal to Repukes to cross-over to as Limbaugh puts it “Pimp yourself: Vote Hillary.”
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_030408/home.guest.html
“The strategy is to continue the chaos in this party. Look, there’s a reason for this. Our side isn’t going to do this. Obama needs to be bloodied up. Look, half the country already hates Hillary. That’s good. But nobody hates Obama yet. Hillary is going to be the one to have to bloody him up politically because our side isn’t going to do it. Mark my words. It’s about winning, folks!”
more at link: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_030308/content/01125107.guest.html
Rush also said this on Feb 26, 2008–as he explained in detail the philosophy behind “Pimp Yourself: Vote Hillary!”
“I know I’m fighting an uphill battle here, folks, on trying to convince you Republicans in Ohio and Texas to cross over, pimp yourselves for a day, vote for Hillary to keep this campaign going, this Uncivil War, Democrat Party…It’s about those people losing. They’ve got some problems in the Democrat Party. It’s not all sweetness and light over there, and we need them to continue warring with each other. We love these stories of black people claiming they’ve been threatened with violence or their lives because they’re not supporting Obama. We want all this kind of stuff out there. We want the Clinton campaign to keep pumping out these pictures of Obama dressed up as Bin Laden. We want this kind of stuff.
If Hillary loses this thing, all of that’s going to come to a screeching halt. We want all the disruption in that party as possible . . . link to entire transcript:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_022608/content/01125110.guest.html
Like I did several weeks ago, I think I’ll continue to hold my fire.
I’m watching “Lil bush” anyway.
Suffice it to say that if there is to be a civil war on the left, I’ll TRY not to be the one to start it.
I received a generic email response from the Clinton campaign this evening. They’re really sorry they can’t respond personally but want me to know how happy they would be if I would contribute. So, a machine took note of my email and sent an automated response.
I subscribed to her blog so I could leave my constructive criticism there. Not that I think it will do any good. If she is able to so easily change her mind about supporting the rules as she agreed, how much can I trust from her?
I am officially as of this evening actively supporting Barack Obama for the Democratic Party candidate for the President of the United States of America.
I’m still a bit disappointed, but I will get over that!
I too will vote for Senator Clinton if she secures the nomination in any legal way. I question what motives she is willing to use.
I’m really sorry to hear that Linda. Remember, they receive thousands and thousands of emails per day.
:(
Obama’s Church reprinted a Manifesto of Hamas in its Church publications.
Funny how those who defend Farahkan and the like can say it is ok, if radical Moslems talk about killing Christians and Jews.
However, liberals hate it if a Christian ever expresses a belief that radical Islam really DOES want to kill us.
SOL — This is a fairly exhaustive link on the origins of HIV I & II/AIDS/ etc., etc.
The biggest agreement is that started in Africa. MANY theories of origins… ONE of which is that it was started to systematically reduce the gay and black populations in the world. You can read all about it at >>>>
http://www.avert.org/origins.htm
Well linda,
Thanks PROBABLY to Hank, I was getting Obama emails.
I wish I had saved them. One of them had an attachment.
“Are you REALLY a conservative voting liberal”
Something like that.
I do know that PMom. I’ve been struggling with this most of this week. I’m just not able to go further on this one. Rules are rules. I’ve had too much of changing them when they don’t fit your agenda from bushco and can’t support another person who accepts that as proper behavior. She lost my respect.
I wish you would have saved that, J R. Because I get Obama e-mails all the time, and I don’t remember that one.
Econ says >>>>
“Obama’s Church reprinted a Manifesto of Hamas in its Church publications.
Funny how those who defend Farahkan and the like can say it is ok, if radical Moslems talk about killing Christians and Jews.”
You want to show WHERE Trinity Church defends, or endorses Hamas?? or Farakhan?? Or Radical Islam?? All you have posted is that the church included the Hamas in some of its printed materials… Show some proof that they support it, and then I can have words about it… But not before…
Mrs. Clinton’s advisers said they had spent recent days making the case to wavering superdelegates that Mr. Obama’s association with Mr. Wright would doom their party in the general election.
That argument could be Mrs. Clinton’s last hope for winning this contest.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/us/politics/20memo.html?_r=4&hp=&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1205978784-DYODfocUf%20PREVvCwoyFsg&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
CapN — any late news on the story out of Ohio on the possible law suits against some of the “crossover” voters there??
Could be some “wannabe” Obama groups sending out email, as well… Gotta check those headers, folks!!
In a lot of states, there is no party affiliation required to vote in caucuses.
So if a Republican would view Obama as weak, one could attend the caucus and vote for Obama.
If a Republican would view Hillary as weak, one could attend the caucus and vote for Hill-Billy.
(plan Delta is in effect)
signed K.R.
(chortles)
Nope, Chas.
It’ll be hard to prove, I think. But it’s good evidence that some of Clinton’s winning margin was from Repukes who want us to lose in November.
Also, note the NY Times story above that the Clinton campaign is pushing the guilt-by-association of Obama for its own benefit.
No surprise there . . .
Please direct your fire at John McCain Capn.
Limbaugh spent a lot of time this morning, gloating about how well his program of “Operation Chaos” has been working, in TX, and OH… He was calling on people to continue the practice in PA coming up yet…
Apparently that is illegal in some states… Just not sure which ones!! I hope if they catch those responsible, they throw the book at them!!
I judge a man’s character by his actions.
Obama did not have the courage to tell Wright that Wright was wrong.
This was not theology, this was crack-pot hate.
The idea that a man who wants to be President would ever sit silently while a Pastor or anyone else made the claim that America invented AIDS or that the American government imported illegal drugs as a way to put Black people in prison is crazy, crazy stuff.
No one who wants to lead the country can be trusted, if that person did not have the guts to call hatefull bullshit for what it is, when he had the chance.
Not gonna continue to stay quiet while the supporters of the Republican sympathizer and apologist Obama go on much longer….
Here’s why Clinton can’t get more votes than Obama–
“In Michigan, where none of her major opponents were on the ballot, she drew 62,220 more votes than the rest of the opponents.”
There’re only about ten more contests left. Only one state is as big as Mich (Penn). Even if Clinton won ALL those primaries with 62,000 more votes, she still would be trailing Obama in the popular vote.
Bring it on, J R.
We’re all adults here.
Just hold your fire on Senator Clinton Capn.
Like she and her supporters and I have on Obama?
That’s all I’ll say for now.
Both Florida and Michigan deserve the consequences of breaking the rules. They were warned and warned and warned. But they decided to be as arrogant as bushco and just do it the way they wanted.
Wish someone would hold bushco accountable too.
Econ writes: “Obama did not have the courage to tell Wright that Wright was wrong.”
That is a bald-faced lie.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2008/03/obama_condemns_comments_made_b.html
Obama Condemns Comments Made By Wright
“Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it’s on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.”
No wonder you still support Bush, Econ.
Those buses from Ohio and surrounding states are pouring into Pennsylvania as we speak Chas.
(chortles)
Good point Paul, the U.S. government would never do anything like sell drugs to raise money for weapons to give to the Contras. Why, that would be a national scandal. Who would ever believe that? If that was ever the case the United States might have to invade a country and depose a drug lord with connections to the CIA. Wouldn’t happen in a million years.
Obama was for Rev. Wright before he was agin him.
After all, Obama Trauma has stated many times that the Rev. Wright was his mentor.
(chortles)
Correct, Doug.
Nor would the US gov’t turn a blind eye to the AIDS epidemic when it mainly affected minorities and male homosexuals.
There’s nothing that the CONs care more about than health care for minorities and homosexuals.
:roll:
People who vote against a candidate based upon that’s candidates former pastor’s views are simply too stupid to be given the responsibility to vote.
How can the Republicans even vote for McCain when McCain had an affair and Republicans demand that politicians resign if they had an affair while in office? It’s probably because it doesn’t matter what the positions actually are, anyone with a D after their name is evil and loathesome. That’s how we ended up with a corrupt, murderous thief like Bush.
Plan Echo now in effect.
signed K.R.
Paul talks about our government and Blacks like there is some cozy relationship. Sure a bank was bailed out on a Sunday (even outside of banking hours) but thousands of Black people in New Orleans are still waiting for their reconstruction checks they have been approved for.
But strumming a guitar while thousands die isn’t racism, but a pastor complaining about it is. That’s how a racist views the world.
Anybody see those Republicans Obama says have ideas?
Any Republicans here you Obama supporters want to work with?
I knew the whore Rush would get behind mcbush.
Chas
You are un-American and you are a hypocrite.
A large number of people who USUALLY vote for Democrats, voted for John McCain in some primaries.
That was their RIGHT, though it does annoy me a great deal.
Now, Republcians do the SAME thing, and you cry about it?
Tough, get over it!
This is America, and you can vote in ANY primary of ANY political party that you wish to join.
A rule preventing someone from voting in two, different primaries?
That would be OK with me.
If you wish for for any more, under the law, —
Well, you are then nothing but a petty tyrant.
Who will be “Judge and Jury” for your “loyalty oath” prosecutions?
“Are you now, or have you ever been a REPUBLICAN?”
“Are you now, or have you ever been, a DEMOCRAT?”
Capn
You have proven nothing.
Obama did not want to challenge Wright, when Wright was an advantage to Obama.
Now, Wright is a negative, for Obama.
Obama has shown opportunism and a con-artist’s ability to wiggle out of a problem, maybe.
But courage?
NO!
Obama is a coward to support such a man as Pastor Wright, and never challenge him or his views until now.
Capn?
Do you see now?
Please get your cotton candydate out of the way and let us FIGHT the damned right like we should.
So Paul, are you trying to tell us that if Wright was never Obama’s pastor that you would vote for him? Or are you just whining about something that wouldn’t have made a difference to you either way?
Doug
I have said several nice thingsa about Obama, prior to this Rev. Wright stuff making the news.
There are many people who I admire, that I would never vote for.
I no longer admire Obama.
Obama is just a player, a con-artist.
How can he “transcend race” or “bring the country together” when he pays, out of his own pocket, to support a crack-pot like Rev. Wright?
Obama either AGREES with Wright, or Obama did not have the guts to challenge Wright, prior to Obama’s Presidential campaign.
But Paul, you belong to the Catholic church which has hid pedophile priests and hidden away Nazi war criminals. Kinda hypocritical don’t you think?
Doug = arm flailing now, since he can’t stick to the issues.
(chortles)
Issues? For the past couple weeks it’s been about Obama’s pastor. There are no issues to be discussed.
But we do have Paul failing to distance himself from advocates of pedophilia and Nazism. How many years has he had the chance to leave the Catholic church and refused to do so? He is clearly part of the Nazi pederast movement.
Hey Capn, Linda, and Chas?
Ya gonna hold hands with James and paulie like Obama wants you to?
Yes, that must be it Doug. Econ101 is solely responsible for pedophiles in the Catholic Church.
I also surmised that Econ101 was present at the Inquisition and that he was personally involved in the case against Martin Luther.
:roll:
I’m just using the reasoning of conservatives. Obama is apparently held responsible for the views of his pastor so Paul must be responsible for the Catholic church’s support of pedophiles and Nazis and Protestants are responsible for Luther’s hatred of the Jews.
Obama has emphatically stated several times before that the Rev. Wright was his Mentor.
Mentor, not just his Pastor.
Mentor, not just an acquaintance.
Mentor…
Obama was for Rev. Wright before he was agin him
(chortles)
So Regular, you are saying you have no association with the Southern Baptists which formed in support of slavery and don’t have any connection with Martin Luther’s hatred of Jews? Or are you saying Paul has no association with the pederast and Nazi loving Catholic church? I’m just wondering if the conservatives are going to be consistent in their views. The current Pope used to be a Nazi afterall, so if any Catholic holds the Pope in high regard they advocate Nazism.
I met an Italian once Doug. Does that mean I have an association with Mussolini?
As I stated before, my family didn’t change to Southern Baptists until the turn of the 20th Century. They were different flavors of Baptists, mostly from Northern states.
And of course, they were conductors on the Underground Railroad and some were even outspoken Abolitionists.
But a nice try Doug.
Too bad you can’t argue the issues with any sort of intelligence and resort to personal attacks.
(chortles)
“I judge a man’s character by his actions.”
That’a a laugh. On a blog, a man’s (or woman’s) words demonstrate character. You have none. You have demonstrated this over and over again as a shill who will say anything, claim anything, to advance your political point of view. You are in no position to lecture someone like Barack Obama on character.
“Obama did not have the courage to tell Wright that Wright was wrong.”
Bullsh*t.
“This was not theology, this was crack-pot hate.”
Says the crack pot.
“The idea that a man who wants to be President would ever sit silently while a Pastor or anyone else made the claim that America invented AIDS or that the American government imported illegal drugs as a way to put Black people in prison is crazy, crazy stuff.
“No one who wants to lead the country can be trusted, if that person did not have the guts to call hatefull bullshit for what it is, when he had the chance.”
Barack Obama’s own words about what Wright said. Again, listen to them and contrast them with what Paul says here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU&eurl=http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisownwords
Again, it is interesting how people like Paul assume themselves now to be experts on what Wright typically said from the pulpit.
Once again, a pathetic attempt to use smear by association.
Pathetic shill.
“Obama has emphatically stated several times before that the Rev. Wright was his Mentor.
“Mentor, not just his Pastor.
“Mentor, not just an acquaintance.
“Mentor…
“Obama was for Rev. Wright before he was agin him
“(chortles)”
Followed by:
“I met an Italian once Doug. Does that mean I have an association with Mussolini?
“As I stated before, my family didn’t change to Southern Baptists until the turn of the 20th Century. They were different flavors of Baptists, mostly from Northern states.
“And of course, they were conductors on the Underground Railroad and some were even outspoken Abolitionists.
“But a nice try Doug.
“Too bad you can’t argue the issues with any sort of intelligence and resort to personal attacks.
“(chortles)”
Of course, Doug’s entire point was the worthlessness of guilt by association politics. Regular lectures Doug on this without apparent irony right after he engages in…guilt by association politics.
Classic troll trick using classic troll logic.
Re: Regular
DNFTT
Rev. Wright made the comments you are all arguing about back in 2003 and some in 2001. Somebody really had to do some digging for those. Two comments among how many? How many of his services have you attended so you can make an informed decision? None? Oh, well…
Apparently, members of his congregation, which is quite large, understand his statements and the context in which they were made. It doesn’t matter who it is, statements taken out of context, left or right, can be seen to mean something completely different. It happens every day, and you all just keep hanging onto them as if they were life preservers.
You all want to follow along like good little sheep, who are no worse than those who need their daily fix of Britney. Pitiful.
I’ve seen one person here who has become so filled with hate (or its cousin), that he has named Barack Obama his enemy and will grasp at anything at all that can be twisted to fit what he wants to believe, just as the Republicans are doing. Not that the Democrats have done any different. That’s fine. You’ve made up your minds, and you’ll spread your hate and rumors, whether about McCain or Obama or Clinton. You’re falling right into the hands of the master planners and are doing exactly what they want.
Do any of you know how to think for yourself? Just to make things interesting, that is.
Sucks to be you, huh?
And of course, the people who make such a big deal about Barack Obama saying that Wright was a big influence on his book The Audacity of Hope have not read The Audacity of Hope, which contains Obama’s own words on the subject.
In his speech, he didn’t duck the issues that Wright brought up, he didn’t depict them in simplistic black and white. In short, he didn’t run from them at all.
But of course, we now have “Econ 101″ railing on about how Barack Obama’s not taking the simple route of completely disowning Wright is somehow showing a lack of character.
Econ — You fail to answer these questions, and instead resort to calling Chas. Unamerican. Do you think you might try answering the challenge?
Chas challenges Econ:
“You want to show WHERE Trinity Church defends, or endorses Hamas?? or Farakhan?? Or Radical Islam?? All you have posted is that the church included the Hamas in some of its printed materials… Show some proof that they support it, and then I can have words about it… But not before…”
Doug
Why would I need to “distance myself” from “advocates of pedophilia” as you claim?
There is a group called NAMBLA, that marches in many “gay rights” parades. NAMBLA was founded by some of the same people who helped start the “gay rights” movement. NAMBLA is the National Man Boy Love Associatiion, and NAMBLA DOES advocate pedophilia.
I do not belong to NAMBLA.
I assume your dishonest attack was aimed at the Catholic Church.
Show me ANY church publication that “advocates pedophilia” would you please?
Doug
The Democrat Party was the pro slavery party.
The Democrat Party was the Jim Crow party.
Therefore, Democrats are racists!
(How does that work for you?)
If Blacks can forgive the Democrat Party, I think it is time that Blacks forgive the country, as a whole.
Chas and :: (Same person, of course)
Your question is stupid.
Obama’s Church gave an award to Farahkan.
Obama’s Church reprinted a diatribe from Hamas.
You are being dishonest to claim that they would do these things, without also feeling supportive of both.
The Jewish Times has this to say:
http://www.jewishtimes.com/index.php/jewishtimes/news/jt/local_news/comment_obamas_disturbing_link_to_pastor/
Econ101
Posted March 21, 2008 at 10:57 am | Permalink
Chas and :: (Same person, of course)
Your question is stupid.
Obama’s Church gave an award to Farahkan.
Obama’s Church reprinted a diatribe from Hamas.
You are being dishonest to claim that they would do these things, without also feeling supportive of both.
====================================
You STILL make lying accusations…. For the Umpteenth time, ECON… I am NOT : :
Secondly, You didnt answer my challenge!! YOU have not, nor can you show that Obama’s Church supports Hamas… Just publishing INFORMATION does not predicate support… How STUPID can you be??? Huh???
http://geo.ya.com/kotimare/ preved
4 Trackbacks
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Didn’t realise there was this type of information out there…
Jack…
I?ll admit it. i have been to your blog SIX times since your last post looking for a new post?….
Pee Female Pee Pee Hole…
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Patrick…
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