With Congress having raised the federal minimum wage last year, it seemed only a matter of time before Kansas would do something — anything — about its embarrassing $2.65-an-hour minimum wage, the lowest in the land. But the majority of House Republicans saw no urgency last week, blocking a vote to increase the wage by returning a bill to committee. Officials estimate that the wage applies to 19,000 workers at small Kansas companies that aren’t covered by federal wage laws. The roll call is here.
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76 Comments
It’s ironic to the extreme that the state that refused to allow slavery at it’s beginning is now the state allows a token wage to 19,000 of it’s citizens that is the moral equivalent of slavery.
Among those “eligible” to work for the Kansas minimum wage, are there any legal citizens? Man,I hope not. If so, they need to quit their jobs and go to work for McDonals, or Burger King. Perhaps people who work for tips? I just don;t know who supposedly works for those kinds of wages.
WHile I generally believe that minimum wage laws are useless, there is no reason to not make it the same guidelines as the federal wage laws. How simple is that? Too damn simple. Get off the self destruction, Kansas GOP
Like we have so much else in Kansas to be proud of…
Lets just pass a law that says everyone must be happy.
Won’t that make everyone happy?
There is a limit to what any law can accomplish.
Minimum wage laws do NOT increase the value of labor, such laws only decrease the number of people who can LEGALLY hold a job.
Which jobs are there that are worth $2.65 or less an hour there paulie.
Ya never did say.
“Econ101″ parrots right-wing crap and offers not a tittle of evidence or facts:
The facts:
Fact number one is that the only people who work for $2.65 an hour are disadvantaged in some way. Teenage baby sitters get more. High school boys charge much more to mow a yard. But there are undocumented immigrants, and some folks who are disabled mentally or physically who will work for $2.65.
Fact number two is that there is almost no correlation between unemployment and minimum wage levels in Kansas or any other of the 49 states that have a higher minimum.
Fact three is that raising the minimum wage lifts the economy. About two-thirds of the U.S. gross national product is generated by consumers. The lower a worker’s income is, the greater percentage of it is spent shortly after payday. Raising the income of those who earn the least is the fastest way to spur consumption at the local, state and national level.
Fact four is that those who benefit most from a low minimum wage are employers who exploit the disadvantaged.
I truly believe that ANYONE entering into politics shuold be faced with living for a minimum of one year at a minumum wage job. With no outside help whatsoever. After, he or she, are asking their constiuents to live that way. Many folks out there work two, sometimes three jobs just to keep the lights on. Some folks receive state or federal aid. Many do not! At least that way our fine folks in Topeka and D.C. will at least have some kind of understanding about what it takes to make it in this world anymore.
Which jobs are there that are worth $2.65 or less an hour there paulie
insurance agent
Raising the income of those who earn the least is the fastest way to spur consumption at the local, state and national level.
trickle up economics?
ghot
Start with the fact that lots of self employed people actually do not make any money at all for their labor.
Businesses do lose money, frequently.
Of course, nobody would support a “minimum profit law” for the self employed.
My point is that minimum wage laws accomplish NOTHING!
No matter where you set the arbitrary “price” or “legal value”, you do not increase or decrease the value of labor with any law.
All you do is make it illegal to hire people below that artificial number.
Are y’all talking about folks that work mainly for tips? Waitstaff and the like?
Rhonda,
Why don’t you do a bit of actual journalism and tell us what companies are only paying their employees 2.65 an hour?
I’m betting, that nearly all of those 19,000 employees are waiters in the Restaurant business.
And after tips, they are not making minimum wage.
Start with the fact that lots of self employed people actually do not make any money at all for their labor
So they’re paid in food, housing, water, electricity…?
I’m not making any money, I’m just given a 32 room mansion staffed by maids, valets, and chaufers, to prepare my 12 course meals and truck me around in my rolls.
C’mon, econ, I realize I’m being hyperbolic, but if you actually expect me to believe that people run a business with the sole purpose of going in the hole…
I’m betting, that nearly all of those 19,000 employees are waiters in the Restaurant business\
couldn’t be, Nate, you insisnt they make at least $15/hr.
No, ghotiphaze, it just looks like it, lol.
Ghotiphaze,
After tips, perhaps.
After tips, perhaps
talk to the Hooter’s waitesses. Maybe at the restaurants you go to where the hamburger runs $150.99.
Here, here Econ 101!
Minimum profit law! Garanteed 25% on your gross, for any business with less than $1,000,000 Gross and at least two employees!
Most minimum wage jobs are wait staff. Their wages are a small percentage of their total income. Maitre dees (sp?) in some swank NY restuants actually pay a percentage of their tips back to the owners for their jobs!
After tips, perhaps.
Granted, my Ex-wife probably made about that, but she was a topless dancer.
Paul won’t say.
Maybe Hank or Nathan will tell us what work is worth less than $2.65 an hour.
Maybe some “official” can tell us what 19,000 employees are making $2.65 and hour. Or at least, what 19,000 jobs pay less than $2.65 an hour.
Like I said, the state law ought to reflect the federal miinimum wage law. Stopping it from doing so was stupid politics. But I doubt of much real consequence.
I find it amazing these waitresses making the megabucks in tips have to work 60-80 hr weeks to live in a 75′ trailer down White Trash Alley, and drive their brand new ‘65 RustBucket Coupe.
C’mon, people, you don’t have life support attached to your (!) so quit talking so stupid!
LJ, I think brick strippers get near $3 an hour. Unfortunately, they get docked for broken bricks, plus they have to take a lot of time (unpaid) for broken hands and feet. BTW, they don’t get heath insurance, and they sure as hell can’t afford them!
Ghotiphaze,
If you are not going to add anything useful to the discussion, feel free to leave it.
If you are not going to add anything useful to the discussion, feel free to leave it
likewise, Nate. If you’re not intentionally insulting my intelligence, you’re too ignorant to even be in the discussion.
Ghotiphaze,
You are rambling on in the discussion about a living wage now.
The issue is about the minimum wage. Those who are paid less than the minimum wage who are tip earners make more than the minimum wage on average.
If you can’t figure that out, then yes, I am calling you stupid.
So lets see. When Democrats send issues back to committee for more study it’s prudent and good governing. However, when Republicans do it it’s shameful. When did a bill dealing with the wage come before the House? It didnt. Another bill was gutted and the wage language was inserted. Seems like sending that language to a committee for study would be the right thing to do.
The liberal bias and reporting based on facts as the Eagle makes them up is sick. Kinda like Rhondas editorial yesterday. “If some GOP lawmakers werent serious about healthcare reform…” Well, look at what happened today. The democrats gutted the bill and its real actions for Kansas healthcare consumers and inserted a bunch of expensive studies that really do nothing for the people of this state. What will Rhonda write about the democrats? Nothing!
She will have Jim Ward come in and explain why they did the wrong thing and then she will defend him and the do nothing democrats. Just like she did when Ward and the Democrats voted against tech training, NIAR, and Fair Fares.
Must be an election coming up! If the Eagle has their way the democrats will be in the majority. However, they would be just like the democrats in DC. Their approval ratings would drop even more. They have no ideas, they can’t govern, and they are out of touch with the mainstream. If more money and government spending was the answer, as Kansas democrats propose, all our problems would have been fixed long ago.
Oh Nathan I bet you never worked for tips in your life.
Figures, you’d weigh in on it.
I did work as a waitress, and I did make the 2 something an hour. I used it as the second job to make ends meet.
My tips were averaged out over the span of my day. If I worked a full day, 8 hours, sure I made good tips during rush, but the slow of the rest of the day ate up that advantage. Often, I was left with the place that I worked for would make up the difference. I rarely made more than the Fed. min wage.
That’s a LOT of work for so little money. I finally decided it wasn’t even worth it, and I quit.
After paying a babysitter, I was still in the same place I was before the job, and less time with my daughter.
Other states give tips ON TOP of min wage..the federal min wage. Tips are supposed to be earned for good service, not your wage.
Ghot
Most people who go into business for themselves work their cans off, with no guarantee, EVER, that they will make a profit.
Also, a business such as barber or hair dresser might simply be a “rented” chair in a local establishment.
Road construction or anything else can cause a loss one year, even if profitable in previous years.
Minimum wage laws are an artificial, ridiculous way for liberals to make themselves feel better.
If you do not want to work for the minimum wage? Don’t! However, the minimum wage law can NEVER determine how much anyone is worth.
Instead, I think I’ll start some evangelical mega church and preach hatred all day, demand that the only way to get close to god is to send me money as he commands. I suppose you’ll consider that to be a good hard day’s work earned, rather than some lowly waitress making 2.50 an hour?
I mean, heck if people are dumb enough to send me money for God, I guess there is no reason I should’nt take advantage of that huh?
Econ, I understand and agree with all that. But to tell me they make NO MONEY, at all, c’mon.
PoliMom, I’m afraid you’re fartin’ in a tornado. Those of us who know, don’t need convincin’, and those that don’t know won’t be convinced and tell YOU that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Instead, I think I’ll start some evangelical mega church and preach hatred all day
I heard Wright retired. Guess Pol_Mom is taking the vacancy. ;-)
Sorry, PoliMom, I already tithe to a church I don’t go to. I might go to your church, burt my money is already promised out. And my time. They get my free time for their extra activities.
The post by “Your Ugly Bias” is so full of lies and contradictions it’s not even worth deconstructing. All I’ll say is this: The Democrats can’t “do” anything in the Legislature without a good chunk of the Republicans agreeing. The House is 1/3 Democratic – not even close to a majority. The Senate is worse, with only 1/4 Democratic. Keep those numbers in mind every time some far-right shill blames the Democrats for the Legislature’s ills.
Political Mama,
I have worked at two different tip earning places and have many friends who work and have worked for several others.
If you can’t make or barely make the federal minimum wage at a Restaurant then you suck at being a waiter.
If you think that a waiter isn’t making enough money, then by all means, tip them more money.
I will appreciate it, my friends will appreciate it, and many others as well.
Perhaps the fact that several of you tip so lousy is the reason you think that the tips are bad? Project much?
have worked at two different tip earning places and have many friends who work and have worked for several others.
Why does that sound so much like, “some of my best friends are black/gay”?
Nate, she said, averaged out at the course of the day, she WAS making about the min. wage. I imagine there was, on any given day, a 12 minute period where she was making 20-25 bucks an hour. But that was when all her tables were emptying and before they stayed empty for 4 hours that she had to be there.
Just another thing for folks to remember when they vote in the fall.
Republicans are the party of pay people as little as you can get away with.
pay people as little as you can get away with
JR, I can kinda agree with that, to a point. What gets my craw is doing that, rubbing their noses in it, telling them they’re not good enough to even make that sub-existence wage, and on top of that saying what Godly and honest people they are for allowing you to live in abject poverty.
Fortunately, I’m not in the 1st position, and I have too much integrity to ever be in the 2nd.
Ghotiphaze,
Lets do some simple math.
Most restaurants (who know what they are doing) will only keep on those employees they need.
As the Restaurant goes past the rush they start cutting servers.
Most shifts are usually never more than 6 hours long unless you work a double shift.
Most places you have a 3 table minimum and others you can have even more.
It usually takes an average of an hour to turn a table.
So during the rush you can have at least 3 tables to 9 tables.
Even if you have the worst tables (3 2 tops) and the average meal is only 20 dollars, you could make about 4 dollars a table.
So you make 12 dollars on tips an hour. You might stay an hour before and an hour after the rush (since you are in the worst section)
You will have about 1 to 5 tables before and after the rush.
So even if you only get 9 tables in your 5 hour period that is 36 dollars. You tip out about 5 of it. You have 31 dollars. That is still just over 6 dollars an hour in tips. Add in the 2.12 you are making and that is over 8 dollars an hour.
That is theoretically in the worst section with bad hours and bad table numbers.
As I said before. If you can’t make the federal minimum wage as a server, you suck.
WHile I don;t know everyone who waits tables, I do know several. They wait tables because they can make more doing that than working at McDonalds. McDonals, last time I knew, paid over $7 per hour. If they can;t McDonals is hiring.
Littlejohn,
Exactly. If you work your way up to a good bartending spot or to having the better sections you can easily make 15 to 20 dollars an hour depending on where you work.
I served a party of 20 for 2 hours and made 50 dollars on tips.
Not including the tables I had before the party and after the party. It was a 150 dollar night in 6 hours.
I am not saying it is the best in the world, but you are making better than the 2.12 an hour you are getting paid.
There are good days and bad days, but on the average you are making more than the federal minimum wage.
nathan-
I doubt that most wait staff makes an average of $15 or $20 an hour. Some do. Depends on the place, and the clientle. some do, somemake a lot more. Some make less. Doubtful (at least to me) that any are making less than the money that McDonalds, or other places pay. If so, they need to change jobs.
Waitress is a rough job, hard on your feet and hard to keep your cool. :)
My sister used to make $100.00 per shift in tips and that was many years ago.
The only time they would average tips is during off days to make it fair. Working for a place that averages tips all the time is just stupid and wrong.
Sorry PMom, you seem to have this ability to grab the short end of the stick all the time.
ghotiphaze
Posted March 24, 2008 at 2:02 pm | Permalink
have worked at two different tip earning places and have many friends who work and have worked for several others.
Why does that sound so much like, “some of my best friends are black/gay”?
Nate, she said, averaged out at the course of the day, she WAS making about the min. wage. I imagine there was, on any given day, a 12 minute period where she was making 20-25 bucks an hour. But that was when all her tables were emptying and before they stayed empty for 4 hours that she had to be there.
———–
Why was I thinking the VERY same thing…
Nathan, you are downright full of crapola. Unless you worked in some big place, perhaps you made that much. I worked at Pizza Hut, in a small town to boot. And me and one other girl were the best waitresses in that entire place. We also worked very close to a college, and college kids don’t tip very often.
Of course, this was before they added the buffet, now I’m sure they make even less.
McDonalds is hiring for far more than 7 dollars an hour now. I know you could make more there than at Pizza Hut.
Getting a ‘waiting’ job in a buffet place is in my opinion dumb. I guess if you have no other choice, but hey…there are choices out there.
Why is it always your solution for everyone to change jobs? I agree, I hated their policy to average tips out, but what can you do?
I guess you do what I did and just scrap the job altogether.
And who did that help? Nobody.
It’s just like now, where I’m being penalized for driving to my client’s houses. When hired I was told that we’d get a transportation allowance and it sounded good…of course, they didn’t tell you they deduct the first 15 miles…EACH WAY.
It is getting to where I’m paying out 60 dollars in gas to earn 120 a week. Not worth it.
Well, does that NOW explain to you why the minimum wage crap is CRAP Regular?
Or do you think since they need a job, hey it’s ok to screw them whenever you can?
Regular if it was just me, but it’s not just me. There are a whole lot of people who are only given the short end of the stick.
That is why I support raising the min wage. It doesn’t affect me anymore, I don’t waitress, but I still want to see it changed. What? Do something for someone else? When it does nothing for me? How Novel.
Show me some statistics Pmom.
Let’s see what the IRS says is being reported and what is being claimed by the underpaid.
Come on, how about some real facts.
For me personally, if I know someone is getting minimum wage that is the national standard, I won’t tip them or not tip them very much.
People that depend on tips, I reward handsomely.
“if I know someone is getting minimum wage that is the national standard, I won’t tip them or not tip them very much.”
Typical right winger – screw the working person if they make more than minimum wage.
That about sums it up.
Funny, how the people here who argue the loudest against a society devaluing life are perfectly happy about people being paid starvation wages. They just don’t want to see the obvious disconnect there.
Anybody who can’t or won’t pay an employee a living wage (by that I mean a wage that actually allows them to live rather than just barely keeping them from dying) has no business hiring anyone in the first place. A minimum wage law should enforce that value. Also, an employee should be paid reasonably by his employer and shouldn’t expect to make up the difference in tips. Tips come from customers who appreciate service over and above the usual and should be considered a bonus, not a part of wages (and yes, I do tip generously when I get good service)!
those repukes sure are family oriented.
Absolutely raise the minimum wage! Stop all the bars and restaurants from screwing with employees and paying them peanuts, expecting them to live off tips – while the owners are rolling in the dough!
Meanwhile, the owners hide behind receipts and screw the IRS and the employee with their underhanded reporting.
And let us all not CRY about the high cost of eating out and let us not blame Bush when we have to eat at home more often.
I’d suggest $10.00 an hour.
Do it now.
those repukes sure are family oriented.
As long as it’s THEIR family!
Wow, it’s too bad some people are relegated to wages commissioned by some dark ages repos probably during the dark ages.
You’d think after making all attempts to stop abortions, a good thing, the republicans would want to see those same children saved from a life of slave wages, but that ain’t the way the repo mind, assuming they have one, works.
Bottom line on this one is if raising the state minimum wage would have such a minimal effect on Kansas business, they wouldn’t let it bother them. It would seem to make them appear human, and they can’t have that, now, can they? Just like the Iraq war, following the bosses line is more sacred than helping their fellow man.
If raising the minimum wage is good why stop with these token increases. Raise it to $50/hr., or better let’s go to $75 or $100/hr. minimum wage. We can all get minimum wage jobs and live like kings and queens, (well, not the modern euphemism of queen…at least not me).
Without other compensation or benefits, like tips, etc., nobody works for $2.65/hr. If someone is, that’s probably all they are worth as an employee because that’s dumb.
Minimum wage is dumb, the market should decide.
Given your level of articulation, KCKID, I would guess that you are worth…………. $1.98 per hour.
ESAD.
WSClark,
If that’s all you think I’m worth that’s all you should offer me. I in turn can elect to take it or tell you to stuff it, which of course I would as I would not work for less than I could get in an open labor market. And, just for your information I would not work for you for $1000/hr. as you are a prime jerk from what I’ve read.
A worker who mans a shovel is worth considerably less than one that can man a large earthmover yet the man with the shovel may well work as hard or harder. What matters is what gets done in terms of quality and quantity, and the market should decide that, not some artificial wage.
Political Mama,
I post with my real name here. I don’t lie about what I do either.
If you think I am full of crap, lets get together and eat some lunch some day and we will talk face to face about what I do and where I have worked.
Otherwise, when you post with your real name you have nothing to talk about by calling me full of crap.
when = until
“Bottom line on this one is if raising the state minimum wage would have such a minimal effect on Kansas business”
Spoken like a real businessperson! NOT.
Funny thing, the small businesses of Kansas are the ones lobbying AGAINST the raise. Must have more than a minimal effect. Of course Walker knows more than all of them.
Wonder why they are all against it if it has such a “minimal” effect?
And here we are, the same old minimum wage thread.
The ONE THING the EDITORS never provide and no one can ever say is who is getting paid below the federal minimum wage BESIDES waiters?
Like I say.
The Republican party. Screw the little guy.
Sell it cons. Sell it.
The one thing we never are told is just what labor you cons think is worth next to nothing.
You should tell us. You should tell the folks that do that work too.
“If that’s all you think I’m worth that’s all you should offer me.”
I was being exceedingly generous at $1.98 an hour.
Mostly likely, you ain’t worth shit.
Nathan worked as a waiter?
Naaa I don’t buy that.
Being an independent contractor, I run onto this “what is the cheapest you can do it?” mentality often.
What I tell folks is, “Well I can skimp on materials. I can cut a corner here and there. I like to help people but I have to eat too. What is the least you think the work is worth? Do you want my best or do you just want me to show up and go through the motions?”
You get what you pay for. Anyone who makes money off another’s work should pay their employee a living wage.
Many years ago the British whined that if slavery was abolished the economy would suffer therefore they fought tooth and nail to keep people in chains. Parliament disagreed and peacefully abolished slavery and as a result the economy grew and spurred the Industrial Revolution.
The same lies are being promoted by Republicans who whine that if people are paid a decent wage the economy will suffer. Once again they are making a case that people need to be put in chains to promote the economy. This flies in the face of common sense because higher wages means greater buying power which stimulates the economy.
Not that I ever accused Republicans of having common sense but I notice they have no problems giving themselves pay increases.
The Kansas legislature should pass a law requiring every businesses that pays it’s employees $2.65 an hour to put a sign up in the window advertising this. Why would they object since they are clearly proud of working people for such low wages.
Doug,
Besides waiters at Restaurants, what business in Kansas would have to put a sign up?
If you think waiters are not making enough, then by all means, feel free to tip us more.
What is high enough?
$50 an hour should do it.
Nathan, I wasn’t aware that I hired waiters and am responsible to pay their salary. Should I have to fill out W-2 paperwork every time I go out to a pub? It’s the employers job to pay their employees, the purpose of a tip is to reward good service, not provide charity.
But how am I to tip the farm workers that get paid $2.65? The Republicans don’t want to increase the wages because it means primarily brown skinned people will be making higher wages. We can’t possibly have people treated with dignity and respect, after all, they are just people like you and me. The golden rule is merely something employed by us liberals I suppose.
Doug,
What farm workers are only making 2.65 an hour?
Please name the farm.
WSClark Posted March 24, 2008 at 9:55 pm |
“If that’s all you think I’m worth that’s all you should offer me.”
“I was being exceedingly generous at $1.98 an hour.
Mostly likely, you ain’t worth shit.
&
“Damn, that is so f–ken’” (blanked out by this author) “generous of you Price” -
Well, for someone who commented on my lack of articulation you certainly prove yourself to be considerable less so, and you clearly show, as I mentioned previously, you are a prime jerk. I think most would consider your post not worth of reading from here on, I do. You lose here WS.
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