“Even some Clinton loyalists are wondering aloud if the win-at-all-costs strategy of Hillary and Bill — which continued Tuesday when Hillary tried to drag Rev. Wright back into the spotlight — is designed to rough up Obama so badly and leave the party so riven that Obama will lose in November to John McCain,†New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd wrote. “If McCain only served one term, Hillary would have one last shot. On Election Day in 2012, she’d be 65.
“Why else would Hillary suggest that McCain would be a better commander in chief than Obama, and why else would Bill imply that Obama was less patriotic — and attended by more static — than McCain?
“Why else would Phil Singer, a Hillary spokesman, say in a conference call with reporters on Tuesday that Obama was trying to disenfranchise the voters of Florida and Michigan?â€
Rather than trying to help McCain, the more likely answer is that Clinton still thinks she can somehow get enough superdelegates to pull out the nomination, as remote a chance as that is.
300 Comments
Starting to look like the dems. only chance will be to put forth the ‘Dream Ticket’. That would heal over the self inflicted wounds.
How IS the water there in the tank for Obama with Randy there Phillip?
“…which continued Tuesday when Hillary tried to drag Rev. Wright back into the spotlight ”
That’s incorrect. Sean Hannity and talk radio are mining the pastor Wright story. Senator Clinton was asked questions about Obama and pastor Wright. All she did was answer them. Word up from this Clinton supporter to Obama fans.
They have found more of pastor Wrights words. There are also other radical affiliations that will bring Obama grief. He and his supporters should get out in front of it and fight it and not blame Senator Clinton.
“Why else would Phil Singer, a Hillary spokesman, say in a conference call with reporters on Tuesday that Obama was trying to disenfranchise the voters of Florida and Michigan?”
Well probably because…it’s true. My understanding is that Michigan was close to a revote but Obama said no. And Obama is not advocating for the votes in Florida to count either.
“Rather than trying to help McCain, the more likely answer is that Clinton still thinks she can somehow get enough superdelegates to pull out the nomination, as remote a chance as that is.”
The super delegates are there for a reason. Part of that reason being to prevent the party making a mistake.
Obama’s problems are his OWN making. Senator Clinton has not mined them. Her campaign either did not go looking for them or did not choose to use them against him. It is not unfair to play by the rules to try to win.
I have said it since this time last year. The Dems are going with Al Gore.
See my Feb 14 post for details. (www.bjbrownsblog.blogspot.com)
Obama tested Hillary for the Dems.
She failed. He will bow to Al Gore, the superdelegates will gleefully agree.
McCain has much to fear.
Gore/Obama?
Gore stays put. He would have had his hat in the ring by now.
Never underestimate a convention that has real meaning.
Hillary wants to be president. The country owes her. It’s her right.
Her chances this year are crumbling away. She’s being beat by a nobody. Someone that shouldn’t have lasted past New Hampshire.
If the democrats are so incredibly stupid that they allow a young nobody upstart to get the nomination in ‘08 then her next chance is in ‘12. That is, if McCain wins.
If Obama wins this year, she will be locked out forever. No chance to run against a democrat incumbent in ‘12 and too old in ‘16.
Her main demographic group is single boomer women that still wear high heeled boots. (followed by middle aged unemployed stupid men) They’ll be too old to care about an over the hill junior Senator from New York in 2016.
Yep, popcorn, a little beer and a great show on November 4th. Who ever gets the final democrat nod is going to get so beat up between now and election day old man McCain won’t even have to throw a punch!
Leave it to the white candidates to try to win white votes by attempting to sway public opinion against Obama by using what obscure and angry minister said on a video years ago. I don’t care too much for Hillary or McCain. Sorry, John and Hillary, your attrmpts to make me vote for you because you are white is not working.
If McCain beats Obama in 2008 because of Hillary’s attacks she will be through as a national Democratic figure. Look at how long it took Teddy Kennedy to regain any sort of stature after he helped Reagan in 1980 – and he never was a contender again.
You’re right, Ben. Simply put, Karma’s a bitch.
Good morning Ben,
Democrat candidates in recent years have been notorious for only getting one bite at the apple. Lurch, Algore, and who was it that ran against Bush the Elder in ‘88?
The hildebeast is different. She has charming Billy in her corner. They won’t go quietly into the night. Even if they pull the party down the toilet with them.
Ben, Senator Clinton has not attacked Obama.
Her campaign COULD have brought out the pastor Wright story. They didn’t.
Hill-Billy has been caught sitting on the toliet seat too long and had to be extracted by emergency poll workers.
Why? Because for Hillary, it is not about her country. It’s not about policy. It’s not about the “working people” she claims to champion. It’s not about doing the right thing (whatever she believes it to be).
It’s about power. Entitlement. Getting what she is owed.
Like her husband, she has a Messiah complex. She believes that only she can save the world, that she is entitled to the Presidency, it’s hers, she earned it, and NOW DARE anyone oppose her. Folks, if you thought GWB was politically vindictive, you ain’t seen nothing yet; just elect Hillary!
And yes, she’s doing everything she can to tear Obama down; destroying his electability is her only path to the nomination. MI and FL made their own beds; Hillary desperately wants to jugger the rules, of course, but it appears that won’t happen. Too bad, so sad. Imagine the role FL and MI could have played had they not tried to jigger the rules themselves?
And now we’re headed to the convention. If Hillary twists the nomination away from Obama, black voters will stay home in droves, and the black vote that the democrats have take for granted for years may be lost to them. They’d be ready to come home to the party NOT wearing the bedsheets; the party that was NOT invested in Jim Crow.
Pass the popcorn, folks, it’ll be fun.
“Clinton was asked questions about Obama and pastor Wright. All she did was answer them.”
She could have taken the high road and declined to answer.
However, there is no such thing as the high road when there is such between a Clinton and their political goal. I have lost respect for the Clintons.
We’ll see. But I have a sneaking suspicion this is the Democrats’ rope-a-dope election.
Yeah, we’re beating each other up. But it’s eerily similar to 1948 when the Dixiecrats left the party and Henry Wallace took the liberals. Ask President Thomas Dewey how that worked out.
(Another thing: It’s interesting to hear people assert that Senator Clinton would be “too old” to run in 2016 since she’d be younger than John Sidney McCain the Third is today.)
I sincerely believe neither of this year’s Democratic frontrunners will deign to accept a vice-presidential nomination.
But with John WMD McCain at the top of the Republic Party ticket, a running mate will become a big issue, since McSame is 328 years old and displaying early stages of dementia. (Just who are we fighting in Iraq, Senator McBush?)
It’s fun to watch “Hank Price,” “Nathan,” “Econ101,” “GMC70,” and “Regular et al” wallow in their November victory seven months before the election.
Enjoy it while you can, guys. George Forman was winning the Rumble in the Jungle. For a while.
It just doesn’t get any better than this. I hate to complete reading a novel and start a new one because you have to get acquainted with new characters all over again. Thanks to the demo party we have a serial novel with no end in sight.
It has national and local characters. Hill and Bill are the gift that keeps on giving and on a local level we have those who are lamenting the sight of their promised handouts flying away.
Every day a new story line and additional characters. Today the leader of the house is under attack by the Clinton camp for her stand on the super delegates – the spoilers – and Obama is under attack by Hill to draw attention from her exposure as a liar on a trip to a war zone. New inflamatory statements by the Rev Wright are threatened and a refreshed Barack arrives from a Carribean holiday to increased preasures over his 20 lapse in judgement.
What will tomorrow bring?
MH if mispeaking is a sign of dementia then the Clintons have been senile for years. Sir Edmund Hillary, Bosnia, Rose Law Firm.. The list goes on and on..
Obama couldn’t even remember what his pastor preached on until reminded by the media.
Maybe it is the water in DC.
Interesting take there Monkeyhawk. The “rope a dope” was a strategy employed by Mohammad Ali at the Rumble in the Jungle in which he covered up against the ropes and allowed George Foreman to punch himself out before taking control of the fight.
But yet here, it is the Democrats (Ali) that appear to be punching themselves out while McCain (Foreman) rests against the ropes, getting stronger, not even having to cover up.
BTW, which of the Dem candidates is Mohammad?
Of course, just to keep his mind in the game, McCain has punched himself in the face a couple of times.
The Clintons have proven to be unreliable liars — incredibly self serving. If they can find a way to step aside graciously they can avoid being a huge embarrassment to the Democratic Party now. They will perenally be skewered in the press — and if the dems dont have firm control of Congress and she is pres the GOP at every turn will block any thing they want and will continue to harrass them (deservedly probably) Will not serve Americans well — they think way tooo much of themselves than deserved (applies to McCain too) —
Obama is slowly becoming a disappointment too .
The next President will be a Democrat. Bush has screwed the chance for anything else. And McCain is a loser, so this election cycle goes to the Democrats.
“Regular
Posted March 27, 2008 at 7:37 am | Permalink
Hill-Billy has been caught sitting on the toliet seat too long and had to be extracted by emergency poll workers.”
Clean it up loser — you’re the one that always turns the blog into a toilet — and complain about others — Man up
I think the editorial today by Leonard Pitts bears repeating in this forum for those who don’t read the paper.
I for one am getting sick of Faux News and the rest of the political pundits beating us over the heads with their “he said, she said” crap. It’s all crap and has nothing to do with a person’s ability to lead the country. Anyway, I thought this ediitoral was good made sense.
LEONARD PITTS: WHY WRIGHT WAS ANGRY
Thank you, Mike Huckabee. It was getting to be a bit much, the marathon denunciations of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright by the professional chatterers of FOX News, MSNBC and the like. Their screams of high dudgeon had grown shrill; their show of moral affront was wearing thin. And then Huckabee, invited by MSNBC last week to condemn Wright’s bitter words, invoked instead the era of racial segregation that shaped Barack Obama’s former pastor.
“And you know what?” he said. “Sometimes people do have a chip on their shoulder and resentment, and you have to just say, ‘I probably would, too. In fact, I may have had more of a chip on my shoulder, had it been me.’”
It bears repeating: a black Mike Huckabee would be more angry than Jeremiah Wright, not less. It was an admission of startling, unexpected insight and, dare I say, Christian generosity. A conservative white man invited white men and women to project themselves into dark skin, to imagine how bitter they might be, had they come of age in an era where law, religion, media and custom said they were less than truly human beings.
Huckabee’s words helped me crystallize something I had been struggling to define as I watched the controversy mushroom and metastasize. I could no more defend what Wright said than I could defend what Don Imus, Michael Richards, Mel Gibson or Tim Hardaway said. And yet as the controversy swelled, overtaking Obama’s pastor, Obama’s speech, Obama’s grandmama, something was nagging me and I didn’t know what it was.
Now I do. There is to all this a sense of the overdone. Methinks they do protest too much.
And here, I’ll repeat for emphasis: I intend no defense of what Wright said. After all, he said obnoxious things: the AIDS virus was created by the government; Louis Farrakhan is a great man; God damn America. Anyone who objects to that is justified. Anyone who asks why Obama remained in Wright’s church for 20 years raises a fair question.
But on the other hand: when Ronald Reagan — not an associate, but Reagan himself — stood on soil soaked with the blood of three murdered civil rights workers and declared his support of “state’s rights,” was he required to make a major speech to explain? When George W. Bush spoke at racist Bob Jones University, when John McCain supported the Confederate battle flag, was there full-fledged media frenzy? Was there marathon, wall-to-wall coverage of the type we have lately seen?
Of course not.
Some of us are using this controversy to peddle a false equivalence, decrying Wright’s perceived bigotry and pretending moral wounds on par with those inflicted by Imus, Richards, Gibson and Hardaway. And failing — or refusing — to understand that those wounds derive their hurtful power not simply from what was said, but from the fact that those same things have been said with impunity for years turning to centuries to justify denying that black people, Jewish people and gay people were people at all. A straight, white, Christian American male does not have access to the kind of pain that causes. For which he should be thankful.
So, when Wright claims a federal conspiracy to spread AIDS among blacks, you might say, well, that’s crazy. And it is. About as crazy as a federal conspiracy to use black men as unwitting guinea pigs for 40 years to test what happens when syphilis goes untreated. Which, of course, happened.
This is the context that has been missing from the high-minded denunciations and statements of mortal offense. This is what has gone unspoken. Does it excuse what Wright said? No.
But it sure as heck explains.
Alwhore doesn’t stand a chance. With the defeat of his “Inconvenient Truth” as the only science opinion in English schools and the threat from the president of the Weather Channel considering suing him – he would fare far worse than either Hillary or the obamination.
“BTW, which of the Dem candidates is Mohammad?”
You all understand, right, that Lincoln was an anomaly in the ‘party of Lincoln’?
There you go, Mary, using common sense again.
Refreshing.
And rare.
Leonard Pitt’s equivocating is nearly as bad as Obama’s. Let’s face it, the man is being called on the carpet because he LIED. Because he claimed he didn’t know the context of what Wright said.
Anyone with half a brain can see through the whitewash. No pun intended.
J Wright is a racist loser, but this isn’t about him. It’s about birds of a feather. It’s about Obama putting his little girls in the front pew of an anti-American, racist church.
It’s about integrity, or in Obama’s case – the lack of it.
Komrade have had trouble finding you last couple days.Will you try again to answer my question,please do better than last time.
just so you recall,Please name me anything the gop stands for or is in favor of, that does not equate
to death,hate,or lies.
Oh in the last 40 years, my bad
Take off your blinders, Komrade, open your eyes and quit letting the talking heads tell you what to think. You can do it if you try.
Did you see komrades lame attempt to answer my question it was sad.
#
jay
Posted March 27, 2008 at 9:04 am | Permalink
Did you see komrades lame attempt to answer my question it was sad.
————————
I didn’t see it. Which nic were you posting under then. :)
You see komrade thinks the gop(god only party)owns
patriotism,there flag is bigger,there hearts pump
more red, white, and blue blood than others.Therfore in there minds it allows for dick (BIGTIME) cheney to say screw the american people,only We know whats best for america.The Chickens are coming home to roost,wake up america.!!!
I have not changed nic just dropped last name
This is how komrade answer my question
Komrade
Posted March 24, 2008 at 8:37 am | Permalink
“Your right komrade maybe i should have phrased it different In the last 40 years can you tell me what the gop stands for that does not include death,hate,or lies”
———
Patriotism, Capitalism, Personal responsibility, initiative, integrity, entrepreneurship, social stability….for starters.
“She could have taken the high road and declined to answer.”
Initially, she did.
But the story in question is evolving and will not go away. Talk radio is on it again today. As a Clinton supporter, that is all I will bring here.
My response,no rebuttal yet from komrade
Patriotism, Capitalism, Personal responsibility, initiative, integrity, entrepreneurship, social stability….for starters.
One at a time here we go
Patriotism=war in iraq equals death
Capitalism=except the civil war every war america has fought has been about capitalism war equals death zero for two so far
Personal responsibilty=like newt gingrich getting a divorce from his dying wife to marry a aide many years his jr,while leading the charge to impeach clinton for having a affair.
initiative:The only true initiative i have seen from the gop would be thwe missle defense system
but that once again involes death,maybe you would enlighten me here.
integrity:larry craig,david vitter,rush,liddy,bill’O,newt,trent,frist,macaca boy allen do i need to go on,although the dems suck on this one as well,must be honest!!
entrepreneurship:I have found most small business
owners start out dems.and become gop members when they make a buck,you might help me out again if you were refering to so other kind of entrepreneurship.
social stability:like the 68 con.in chi.like kent state,like your boy ronnie sleeping while aids spread across the world,claiming it was gods revenge on the gay man.
That about sums it up, any questions KOMRADE?
It really doesn;t matter why Wright was angry, as far as the campaign goes. What mattersis why Barak Obama sat under his tutelage for 20 years. Why he subjected his daughters to such teaching. Those things DO matter. Why Wright is angry has no bearing on either. I for one, would never continue my associaiton with such a church, whether or not I continued being friends with the Reverend Wright. We all have crazy friends. I think Obama was remiss in not doing so. I think he was remiss in letting his children grow up spiritually in such an environment. However, he has spoken out in disagreement with those teachings. I accept that. I also accept that if the shoe was on a conservative foot, the liberal left, and the civil rights leaders, would be bleating in the press everyday. just as many conservatives or pseudo conservatives are doing today. Grow up. Neither side has clean hands, and until you recognize that, there can be no change.
Throw ALL the bass turds out
Unless WE THE PEOPLE allow and accept some hardships while our country deals with our big problems, the next president will probably only serve one term. Solutions may begin in that four year period but that won’t be long enough for fruition. Then WE THE PEOPLE will complain bitterly that we aren’t in any better shape and UNelect them.
Conversely, we will send the same bozos back to Congress who have been part of the problem all along.
Are we proud of WE THE PEOPLE? Most of us don’t even see that we are a big part of the problems. We can always just scream Clinton or Bush. It’s gotta be the fault of one of those two.
“You can do it if you try”
No, Mary, he cannot. The lobotomy has become irreversable.
“Conversely, we will send the same bozos back to Congress who have been part of the problem all along
Are we proud of WE THE PEOPLE? Most of us don’t even see that we are a big part of the problems. We can always just scream Clinton or Bush. It’s gotta be the fault of one of those two.”
Amen
“Please name me anything the gop stands for or is in favor of, that does not equate to death,hate,or lies.”
Jay, let me take a stab at it. Republicans are the the pro-life party (I suppose I could stop there having answered your challenge), we stand for a strong national defense to protect the lives and liberty of our citizens, education choice as an alternative to failing public schools, small business opportunity, gun laws that allow a person to defend themselves, a sustainable social security system, and for the continued inclusion of God (not a particular religion)in the public square.
BTW, why did you say that you are voting Republican?
Actually,
george bush and the Republicans have screwed things up SO bad, I don’t know why anyone wants the job.
The day they take office, the next President will be responsible for the mess bush made. That’s something I almost wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.
“The super delegates are there for a reason. Part of that reason being to prevent the party making a mistake.” JR
Hey I thought the “party” represents the vote of the people. JR, are you saying the superdelegates are there because the people are too stupid?
How can the vote of the majority be “a mistake”?
And Rush calling this Chaos isn’t correct.
This is a complete MELTDOWN!
Hey GMC70, can I get that popcorn with lots of butter? I’m really enjoying the show.
“Conversely, we will send the same bozos back to Congress who have been part of the problem all along”
Geez, you could substitute “kansas legislature” for “congress” and the statement would still be true.
I’m still sayin’ that there will be NO change in Kansas until the majority of these wingnut do-nothings in the kansas statehouse change.
NO INCUMBENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Record numbers turning out to primaries…
Record numbers of new folks signing up to vote as Democrats…
More representation as to who the nominee will be by more states than ever before…
Yeah that’s some good chaos that.
AND Rush might get himself indicted!
Meanwhile, poor old John McCain isn’t even interesting enough to merit a thread here about HIS bigot affiliations.
J R begins to whistle “Happy Days are Here Again”
A history of superdelegates, per the contributors at Wikipedia:
After the 1968 Democratic National Convention, the Democratic Party made changes in its delegate selection process, based on the work of the McGovern-Fraser Commission. The purpose of the changes was to make the composition of the convention less subject to control by party leaders and more responsive to the votes cast during the campaign for the nomination.
Some Democrats believed that these changes had unduly diminished the role of party leaders and elected officials, weakening the Democratic tickets of George McGovern and Jimmy Carter. In 1982, a commission chaired by former North Carolina Governor Jim Hunt created superdelegates. Under the original Hunt plan, superdelegates were 30% of all delegates, but when it was finally implemented in 1984, they were 14%. The number has steadily increased, and today they are approximately 20%. [6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate
What mattersis why Barak Obama sat under his tutelage for 20 years. Why he subjected his daughters to such teaching.
Uhm, lj. . .do you really believe that every sermon–or even most–was like that? If so, I have an awesome home loan I’d like to sell you.
P.S. No offense.
What’s even harder to believe is that he even attended every sermon. Where has he lived for the past several years? Did he even live in Chicago when he served in his state?
Rage-
No offense taken. NO, I don;t believe every sermon was like that. To me, it doesn;t matter. If my pastor were to make such outrageous statements, either he would be gone, or I would have. A poor judgement call on Obamas part, in my opinion. And not even as a political candidate, but as a husband and a father. Just my opinion.
“I have an awesome home loan I’d like to sell you”
No thanks, there is enough deficit spending in my life. :-)
“AND Rush might get himself indicted!”
If he does he will be in good company. Last count over 120,000 in PA registered as democrats to help you libs pick the best candidate.
Don’t count on any indictment. More importantly, I would not count on all those new rascal democrats staying blue. I reregistered already.
And if they come after me, I will tell them I was encouraged to vote in YOUR caucus by your own candidates.
Ain’t it grand?
“Look at how long it took Teddy Kennedy to regain any sort of stature after he helped Reagan in 1980 -and he never was a contender again.”
Do you suppose Teddy’s problem really begain with The Chappaquiddick incident and the death of Mary Jo Kopechne?
Or did his drunk driving, woman exploiting days add to his charisma?
“AND Rush might get himself indicted!”
What did he do this time? Still the drug thing?
AmWay – those were also albatrosses around his neck but his help to Reagan was the final nail.
Actually Ted Kennedy is quite personable in person and enjoyable to listen to when he talks history.
However, the moment he puts on his political hat, he turns into a bit of an ass.
Outlander yes i will be voting gop if hillary is the other one running.So your pro life stance (is that extra wide)sorry,does not include death.Dr tiller shot clinic bombings all over america try again.
national defense equals war equals death, next
no child left behind UNFUNDED it really means no rich white child left behind
Gun laws there is a joke i guess you believe every man is a militia.Go to the public square and read from the koran
and see what happens lol
I am sad to say that just like ronnie raygun you see things as you wish they were,instead of how they are
Oh almost forgot ss when you say sustainable you mean a system where non rich seniors and people on disibilty(you know those g**d*** lazy dems)
eat cat food and starve.By the way starvation leads to Death!!! like komrade i expected better
try some more.
“AND Rush might get himself indicted!”
What did he do this time? Still the drug thing?
——————
Ben, I don’t remember any of the details but in some states it’s required to sign kind of an allegiance that carries criminal consequences for “fraud” when the voter registers. Rush encouraged Republicans to register as Democrats and vote for Senator Clinton in that / those states. Now, of course, some are using this as political fodder. Isn’t anything and everything fair game? When done by someone who already has half the people sharing a negative opinion of his every move isn’t it fairer game? Silly season.
How can the vote of the majority be “a mistake”?
Just look at the last two elections, if you have faint in the public. They screwed up big time, and some still can’t own up to the fact.
Pastor Wright’s comments aren’t the first or the worst crazy shit I’ve heard in a church. Sit in ANY church long enough and you’ll hear something that somebody is going to find highly offensive.
So let’s loose the phony outrage, shall we?
“However, the moment he puts on his political hat, he turns into a bit of an ass.”
unlike you who doesn’t need a hat
“Conversely, we will send the same bozos back to Congress who have been part of the problem all along
http://www.paulcongress.com
There is hope. Change from inside the beltway. Tired of Congress and the Senate wasting your money? Prove it.
Mary
Leonard Pits kind of avoids the Anti-Semitism, doesn’t he?
Jewish people died in the civil rights battles.
Obama’s Church does not care about that fact.
Obama’s Church bashes Israel and Jewish people, in general.
Obama’s Church works closely with Nation of Islam leader Loius Farrakhan. Obama was Farrakhan’s State Senator. Obama was very slow to “denounce” Anti-Semite Farrakhan.
Please keep in mind that Jewish people were Hitler’s slaves, in Nazi Germany, and that Jewish people were often sent to the Gulags in the Soviet Union. Jewish experience with slavery is a bit more recent.
Again, Pitts says that we should understand the anger in Obama’s Pastor, Jeremiah Wright.
A Pastor is SUPPOSED to give “Christian Witness” or act as Jesus would act.
“Father forgive them, they know not what they do” would be the proper response to injustice, from a true Pastor of the Flock.
Instead, we get a man who is angry at nearly everyone, for NO just cause.
And Obama never challenged that hate. Obama even gave the hate-monger’s church $22,500.00 in 2006, alone!
Did Hillary the liar, ever release her tax forms?
Chaos. I tell you this is a real mess.
If a Democrat wins this year, I want the Super Delegates to retain ALL of their power.
After all, the Democrats will CONTINUE to make mistakes, even after the election, and I want the Super Delegates to fix those mistakes!
Paul, who do you hate more, Democrats or Black people?
Doug
I don’t hate anyone.
I hold everyone to the same standards.
To do otherwise would be hateful and racist.
I commented on Obama in the open thread, all I can say and I did agree with part of his plan on the mortgage crisis. But even if that would be the only plan of his I agree with. He does talk to you like you are an adult. Few slogans very much to the point and direct with exact examples instead of colorful pictures of it. He addresses the problem as a whole instead of always reverting to “A poor, widow with fourteen kids working five jobs. And she asked me what I was going to do about the cost of a postage stamp!”.
Which BTW is to divert from the whole issue and engender the listener to believe the candidate is listening to the little people. AND not address the entire problem but leave you with a warm and fuzzy feeling about them. He comes across as knowledgeable in his own right and not just someone that will depend solely on others to tell him what he should say like he is simple a tape recorder repeat what was prerecorded.
Now I need to learn more about his entire plans to judge if he would be in deed a good President. It is though refreshing to have a candidate whom give you the benefit of the doubt as to if you being an adult and not just needing pictures and simple word. As if the voters are five years old.
Thanks Paul, it must be that Christian love you are expressing. I’ve been on the receiving end of that Christian love by many loving Christians. I’d hate to see how vile Christian hate is compared to Christian love.
Since McCain is an illegal candidate will you still vote for a candidate who brazenly violates the law?
The difference between Leonard Pitts and you, Paul? The same difference I identified between you and me. Leonard Pitts is a thoughtful guy who identifies his own point of view and how readers should keep in mind that point of view while considering his comments. I have to laugh at the nitwits who call into Opinion Line claiming he is a racist (or the goof who always opens his response with “Leontard”). Pitts is a smart guy who takes responsibility for what he says.
And then there is you, the guy who simply posts talking points without any apparent concern for accuracy or truthfulness.
Again, you are a liability to your own cause. Shill.
McCain is not an illegal candidate.
I do think it is funny that McCain Feingold is causing McCain trouble.
McCain has my vote, but not my soul.
McCain has my vote, but not my obedience.
McCain is often wrong, but he is not nearly as wrong as Obama or Hillary.
“Instead, we get a man who is angry at nearly everyone, for NO just cause.”
Amazing — econ101 seems to believe that he and Wright share identical life experiences.
I bet the Jim Crow laws and attitudes back in the 1950’s caused econ101 lots of problems.
KsAgnostic
I rarely have conservative Republicans call me a liability to the cause.
And, as long as I annoy you and those like you, I am satisfied that I am providing a useful service here!
There is NO excuse for Rev. Wright.
It doesn’t wash.
There is also NO excuse, other than political expedience, for Obama to kiss up to Wright for 20 years and to give that Jew-bashing Church $22,500.00 in 2006 alone.
“How can the vote of the majority be “a mistake”?
Just look at the last two elections, if you have faint in the public. They screwed up big time, and some still can’t own up to the fact.”
Bbb-but, but THAT was stolen by republicans?
This is an all democrat thang.
American politics has never in the history of the country let manners, common decency or truth to stand in the way of a good election fight, and probably never will. As a result, our politicians have evolved to grow thicker hides and sharper tongues than voters.
I don’t think the accusations on the primary trail will carry over to the general election- they seldom do. After the convention, they’ll all shake hands and go gunning for McCain, who is chained to a bush and his old war stories, and is too easy a target to not get shot to pieces.
Any respect for the Clintons that I may have had is gone – her ambition has exceeded her grasp of reality – this has become all about her.
As for the Obama bashing from the right – you folks wouldn’t have voted for him anyway, so your comments are without relevancy.
And Pitts had a GREAT column today. For those that deny racism, remember it has been less than 40 years since Dr. King was assassinated. Racism and racial hatred isn’t in the distant past. It is still alive and well in America in 2008.
econ101,
There is no excuse for people like Dick “toe-sucker” Morris and Ann Coulter.
But you foolishly respect and believe them, and similar ilk.
Pall,
You’ve never heard the whole sermons of Rev. Wright, just highly edited sound-bites. I spent much of my youth attending black churches, and such remarks were not too common, but they were an unavoidable undercurrent, and considering the larger context of what this society did and is still doing to its African-American citizens, not all that uncalled-for. And considering some of the sh*t you sling at people you disagree with, you’re hardly qualified to call them on it!
Paul, if a person immigrates to this country illegally they are called an illegal immigrant. So if a candidate violates election laws and runs a campaign illegally then they are an illegal candidate. It’s pretty simple.
McCain wouldn’t be on the ballot in states like Kentucky if he didn’t violate the law, he used public funds to guarantee private loans to aid in his campaign. According to the FEC rules he can’t reject public financing after he has benefited from them. Either he should drop out, pay back the money with fines, or have his name removed from ballots where he violated the rules to get on the ballot.
But since he’s a Republican and wears an American lapel pin he gets a pass.
Funny how Paul has no problem with McCain’s people who constantly bash Jews, Catholics and Muslims in their churches. Wright never said anything negative about Jews but Paul’s a liar and a hypocrite. If Wright was White and said those things in a White church there wouldn’t be a problem since Parsley and Hagee have said much worse things.
“I rarely have conservative Republicans call me a liability to the cause.”
Of course not, because the people you would call conservative republicans would almost certainly hold similar views and thought processes to yourself. Thus, they form the same sort of liability that you do. They don’t see the problem because they agree with you.
Let me put it this way, the Iraq War is not the reason why the majority of the State School Board was voted out, and they were not the reason why Kline lost. I suspect that having Wagle on the ticket did not help Barnett in his run either. The right overreached. The right gloated and tried to run roughshod over contrary views. Most importantly, the right tried to dominate the public agenda with items that most of the public did not want to be bothered with. In short, they annoyed not only those voters who don’t agree with them, but those voters who really don’t care that much about them.
“And, as long as I annoy you and those like you, I am satisfied that I am providing a useful service here!”
Well, there you have it. Annoying people, as opposed to engaging in actual intelligent dialogue, is a “useful service”. That explains a lot. That’s why you are a liability. Your going on and on about how awful and catestrophic Wright is to Barack Obama is so obviously self serving to the expression of your politics that every time you go on about it, you irritate yet another reader.
“And Pitts had a GREAT column today. For those that deny racism, remember it has been less than 40 years since Dr. King was assassinated. Racism and racial hatred isn’t in the distant past. It is still alive and well in America in 2008.”
I disagreed with some of Pitts column, and agreed with some. Pitts often excuses black racism, or in the words of one the founders of “black liberation theory” Black hate which is not rascism, while castigating others, primarily white, about the same thing. Fine. He is entitled to his opinion. He and I have had several discussions, and i respect where he is coming from, and what he has to say, even if we do not agree.
One comment I will make, concerning rascism. Many, many people growing up in the midwest really had or have no idea. Rascism, at least overt rascism, was not part of my experience growing up. I had little understanding or sympathy for much of what on in the sixties (of course, I was pretty young—graduated HS in 72.) It was not until I worked in the south, and saw some of the matter of fact attitudes about race from otherwise same people, that I began to appreciate some of the anger of the civil rights movement. Hearing about it on tv, or in a speech could never bring it home like being there. Not an excuse, but a reason why many in the midwest (including me sometimes) just don;t get it.
Econ is a different breed of Republican than I am, but I am sure he is not labeled as a Liability by a good number within the party. I might be as I am more the old school and would if they want to be nice referred to as a moderate. Econ and I agree on some matters and are a part on others. He has shown in the past to have some valid opinions. AS does JR, both show passion in what they believe its just at times it boarders on being “Horny” about it.
Doug
For starters, the Republican Party Delegates can nominate ANYBODY it wants to nominate.
The Democrat Party Delegates can nominated ANYBODY it wants to nominate.
Federal law can NOT stop delegates at the convention from doing whatever they want to do.
This is one of the reasons I have always rejected campaign finance laws in general.
The other reason, of course, is the First Amendment.
Doug, you are wrong.
Pastor Wright has said lots of negative things about Jews.
http://www.opinioneditorials.com/freedomwriters/syuhas_20080320.html
whoops, bad grammer above, but you get the point
The other reason, of course, is the First Amendment.
Now see what I mean, I believe that there should be controls on campaign financing to the extent that campaign financing has become a code word for influence buying and insider lobbying. K-Street and all, your voice is heard only if you can pay to be heard. It is a bit naive to believe that the candidate will suddenly stop paying attention to the special interest once they gain the office. On both sides of the coin, once I buy your vote and you do not vote the way I want. You are not getting my money again!
“The other reason, of course, is the First Amendment.”
So why doesn’t McCain appeal the law’s requirements to the SCOTUS?
Oh yeah, ‘cuz he wrote it. Whoops!
“The right of the people, peaceably to assemble, and petition the government for a redress of greivances”
PAC’s are people, assembled.
So are lobbyists!
How the heck does anyone know what Clinton is really doing? She lies all the time.
Do you believe her this time? Should I believe what she said yesterday? How about tomorrow?
Does she speak the truth about Obama? About Mccain?
Who the heck knows?
“Doug, you are wrong.
Pastor Wright has said lots of negative things about Jews.”
Paul, there is not one quote on that article concerning Wright’s opinions of Jews. Thanks for the huge waste of time.
Well we have not heard a similar call from Obama. But Senator Clinton is clear enough on the matter.
“FAYETTEVILLE, North Carolina (CNN) – Hillary Clinton pleaded for partisan unity on Thursday, urging Democrats not to abandon their party to vote for John McCain if their preferred candidate fails to secure the nomination.
Clinton was asked by a questioner in the audience here what she would tell frustrated Democrats who might consider voting for McCain in the general election out of spite.
“Please think through this decision,” Clinton said, laughing and emphasizing the word “please.”
“It is not a wise decision for yourself or your country.”
The crowd applauded loudly.
A Gallup poll released this week indicated that 28 percent of Clinton’s supporters would back McCain should the New York senator lose her quest for the Democratic nomination.
That compares to the 19 percent of Obama supporters who say they will favor McCain should Clinton be the party’s nominee.
“First of all, every time you have a vigorous contest like we are having in this primary election people get intense,” she continued. “You know, Sen. Obama has intense support. I have intense support.”
Clinton stressed that there are “significant” differences between her and Obama, but said “those differences pale to the differences between us and Sen. McCain.”
“I intend to do everything I can to make sure we have a unified Democratic party,” she said. “When this contest is over and we have a nominee, we’re going to close ranks, we’re going to be united.”
– CNN Political Producer Peter Hamby
I had not actually given much thought to voting for McCain. I just am not convinced that voting for Obama is not as bad or worse as voting for McCain. It’s HIS job to clear that up.
Dueling indictments?
Now an Obama Super Delegate, the Governor of Puerto Rico, is in trouble:
http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/puerto-rico-governor-obama-supporter-indicted-2008-03-27.html
Well, Hillary lost Spitzer. That hurt her, since Spitzer was working the other delegates on behalf of Hillary.
Now? Obama has trouble with the Latino vote, and this will hurt Obama.
Today I have gotten my campaign buttons, back about three weeks ago, I went to Obama’s website and purchase some buttons.
A neat one that I have gotten was one that said “Republicans for Obama 08″
You’re SUCH a scavenger paulie.
If you wanna play vulture circling a political candidate, go fly lazy circles over old John.
Doug
It is the Trent Lott test.
If you say something nice about a racist, does that make you a “racist” or an “anti-semite”?
Obama’s Church has said awful things about Israel.
Obama’s Church has said wonderful things about Farrakhan, who hates Jewish people.
This article, by the way, was written by a Black person. I guess that is important, since the author does mention that fact:
http://www.gaywired.com/avantgo/storydetail.cfm?Section=66&ID=18486
“As an African-American, I find it difficult to countenance a situation in which a white politician could have ties with a divisive public personality that were as significant as those shared by Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright and still remain politically viable.
In fact, I recall a little incident from 2002 involving former Senate Republican Leader Trent Lott and a remark he made at the 100th birthday party of notoriously racist South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond. Of Thurmond and his ill-fated run for the presidency on a platform of racial segregation back in 1948, Lott said:
“When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over the years, either.”
The righteous outrage that ensued following those comments was deafening and fifteen days after making them Trent Lott rightfully resigned. Lott learned the hard way that guilt by association can be quite the damning thing.
In a campaign as tense as the one in which Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are currently engaged, harsh words will be said. That’s politics.
Though no political candidate can be held accountable for what his or her supporters, family and acquaintances may do or say, every human being can be held accountable for the choices they make.”
How it the world do all you Bush apologists open your mouths to accuse Hillary of lying without your faces falling off?
Dear Phillip Brownlee,
After you have read my 4:58 post, I feel you owe Senator Clinton an apology for the title and header of this thread.
OR you could give us a thread about John McCain and how he SOUGHT the endorsement of the bigot pastor Hagee, then lied about it.
Pall,
Do you really think that hundreds of years of slavery, racism, killing with impunity, theft without recourse, economic, educational and social oppression of the worst sort can just be dismissed overnight? I know this is difficult for you, but try putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and being honest with yourself. Do you really think you could just smile and discard the experience of generations of your family? If you have any imagination left, see if you can visualize yourself as a black person with the same history behind you that most people of color in this country have, and the reactions that allowed you to survive in an oppressive society. You just might find yourself saying pretty much the same things Rev. Wright said; that is if you’re being honest with yourself. Do you really think you could leave all that behind on the speculation that maybe things will be better soon? I didn’t think so!
On MSNBC tonight, I just heard that Hillary plans to take her campaign all the way to the convention and employ a credentials fight to try to seat delegates in favor of her candidacy.
She is still pushing to seat Michigan delegates, all the while KNOWING that Obama was not even on the ballot.
She is pushing to seat Michigan and Florida delegates, even though she agreed, in writing, that they would not count.
Hillary and Bill may as well just come out and endorse McCain. They are destroying the Democratic Party and they seem damned proud of themselves for doing it.
The Democrats are on the verge of losing any possibility of winning in November and the blame can be laid squarely at the feet of Bill and Hillary Clinton.
WS
Do you mean to imply that you think Senator Clinton cannot beat McCain if she is the nominee?
Ya know, a convention IS the way the nominee was always chosen. We’ve just got out of the habit the last 40 years.
“The particular slant of Hagee is not only unfaithful to the New Testament but heretical. It abandons the Jew to never hearing the Gospel. It is a subtle but real form of anti-Semitism because it puts a gag order on any evangelist and robs the Jew of the Good News. It is Hagee who is in fact a closet anti-Semite.”
http://www.pfo.org/jonhagee.htm
It’ll be GOOD to have a convention. It energizes the process.
Senator Clinton did a GREAT interview with Greta van Sustern.
Among the things she mentioned was that she is all in favor of a revote of Florida and Michigan.
And she can’t know the result of such a vote in advance. Her point is that it is political suicide to disenfranchise those states.
And she is correct.
The above post is for J R
“Do you mean to imply that you think Senator Clinton cannot beat McCain if she is the nominee?”
I did not believe that she could win before the campaign began and now she has alienated millions of Obama supporters with her tactics.
She is nearing a point where she will eliminate Barack’s ability to defeat McCain.
The McCain campaign is just taking notes right now and will read them back during the General.
“Obama is not qualified to be CIC.”
“Obama is corrupted by his pastor and shows poor judgment.”
“Obama is against democracy because he won’t support seating MI and FL delegates.”
Hillary will sacrifice the Democratic Party to serve her own ambitions.
“WSClark” says –
“Democrats are on the verge of losing any possibility of winning in November….”
Maybe.
But Shrub has f*cked up so badly, I continue to be reminded of 1948 when the liberals left the Democratic Party and the Dixiecrats left the Democratic Party and President Thomas Dewey was elected.
People such as “J R” and “ksfarmgrrl” will proclaim their utter disrespect for Barack Obama but when it comes down to actually marking a ballot even they know better than to vote for Dubya Two.
What we see in this forum is none of the Cons have anything favorable to say about the Republic Party’s presumed nominee.
We’re seven months and change from Election Day and John Sidney McCain the Third is enjoying a holiday from journalistic scrutiny. He’s a doddering old coot who’d probably go to the White House Easter Egg Roll and tell kids to stop playing on his lawn. He’ll have more (as Brit Hume called ‘em) “Senior Moments,” and whomever is his vice-presidential candidate will get an awful lot of scrutiny because most thinking Americans believe a vote for McBush is tantamount to voting for a State Funeral before 2012.
Well WS.
You might want to consider this.
Senator Clinton did not start the stuff about Pastor Wright.
1) She knew about it and chose not to go there.
2) She didn’t know about it because she didn’t go looking for it.
There was another affiliation of Obama’s that was questionable. Senator Clinton got him to distance himself from that person in a debate.
That’s just for starters. Your bitterness is misplaced.
And I am VERY confident that she can beat John McLame.
And old John may be a little scatter brained these days.
BUT
He will have the entire weight of the right wing attack machine on his side.
Those folks don’t need to take notes from anybody.
“That’s just for starters. Your bitterness is misplaced.”
Hillary is now gone beyond trying to destroy Obama’s chances to win the presidency, she is trying to destroy him personally and politically.
She and Bill will not be satisfied until they completely destroy Barack, regardless of the cost to the Democratic Party.
Polls have shown that Hillary is the only Democrat that could lose to a Republican in the Fall. She is out to prove them wrong.
She is going to make sure that Obama cannot win, either.
At this point, I have to question Hillary’s allegiance to the Democratic Party.
I am not bitter, I am seriously pissed off at Bill and Hillary and I am far from being the only one.
If Hillary manages to steal the nomination from Barack, she will lose in a landslide in November.
Hagee and Parsley are two different characters. While Parsley wants America to wage genocide against all Muslims Hagee simply wants to wait for another genocide against Jews.
But Rev. Wright said killing is immoral and therefore he’s criticized. What a mixed up set of morals the reich wing has.
Ya know WS
I lamented Dems fighting amongst themselves awhile back.
It was monkeyhawk reminded me then that vigorous debate is part of the process.
To be honest? I think Senator Clinton has been a little TOO kind.
What you think if Obama had been made the nominee in January that none of what has happened would have happened? That’s not realistic.
“J R” tortures logic with –
“…it is political suicide to disenfranchise those states.”
Hillary won a plurality in California. All logic dictates any Democrat will carry California in November. Hillary won a plurality in Massachusetts. Even a dolt should expect the Democratic nominee to carry Massachusetts. The junior Senator from New York carried the Democratic primary in New York. Just who is impressed?
The whole argument that Democratic primary votes somehow translate into general election victories is specious at best. Barack Obama dominated the Kansas caucus and no one in their right mind believes Kansas is likely to go blue in November. (Then again, the Kansas Republic Party delegation is committed to the Huckster at the convention in St. Paul next September. Who knows how many twice-born Kansans will sit on their hands on Election Day?)
A lot of people will be diffident about voting for a doddering septugenarian such as John WMD McCain. If the Republic Party’s candidate were to be elected in November 2008, his running mate will likely be in the Oval Office by 2012. Do you really think America is ready for a, say, President Kay Bailey Hutchinson?
I’m enjoying watching the Republic Party’s victory dance in March. It’s about all they’ve got.
WS
If this country is SO far gone that “Hillary will lose in a landslide” to bush II?
It may be too late to worry about it.
Again, your bitterness here is misplaced.
Since most all the baby boomers are now Grandparents themselves…. There doesnt seem to be such a nationwide need for a Grandfather figure to sit in the Whitehouse… You know, like we had with Reagen, or like would could have with McCain!!
“It is the Trent Lott test.
If you say something nice about a racist, does that make you a “racist” or an “anti-semite”?
Obama’s Church has said awful things about Israel.
Obama’s Church has said wonderful things about Farrakhan, who hates Jewish people.”
Israel is a country, you can’t be racist towards a country. Rev. Fred Phelps was awarded by the Black community for his work defending the civil liberties of African-Americans, does that mean those Blacks giving him the award share his views against gays? You probably think so but you aren’t terribly intelligent, that’s why you vote Republican.
If you were opposed to apartheid in South Africa does that mean you are racist towards Blacks and Whites because you oppose a position of the government? Are 64% of Israelis anti-Semitic because they want to negotiate peace with Hamas? Are you racist towards Asians because you don’t like China’s treatment of Tibetans?
Your reasoning is absurd and it shows your extreme lengths you’ll go to to justify your hatred.
Why is it that one half of the Democrat party has just now figured out that the Clintoons are bald face liars? What did you know and when did you know it?
“To be honest? I think Senator Clinton has been a little TOO kind.”
Yeah, she is trying to destroy – Tonya Harding – her opponent – so that she can get in the back door. She knows that she can’t win in popular vote or in delegates so she is going for the kneecaps hoping to sway the superdelegates.
“If this country is SO far gone that “Hillary will lose in a landslide” to bush II?”
Yes, she will. She is tearing apart the Democratic Party and alienating Obama supporters by the millions.
If she is the nominee of the Democratic Party in November, she will lose BIG TIME. It will look like Bush I v. Dukakis without the leather helmet.
Mark my words.
Well WS
You are older than me.
I don’t even remember when a party convention was anything more than just a big party.
What Senator Clinton is doing is playing by the rules in a system that was established before she was ever born.
That system has not been used in awhile. That’s all.
Now this Clinton/Obama thing. Is it a case of the media claiming that Clinton is trying to destroy Obama or is it an actual fact that her actions are actually swaying the voters? The media told us the Rev. Wright issue drove away voters from Obama but the polls told a different story. I’m thinking that after the media’s huge claim that Obama is a Muslim that the media lost credibility over their smear attempts against Obama.
The fact is the press wants to give the number five in the Keating Five a pass on the issues. Sure McCain wants to do away with employer provided health insurance, sure he wants 100 more years in Iraq, sure he wants war with Iran, sure he is in favor of torture, sure he wants to broaden the Bush tax cuts for the rich, sure he broke campaign finance laws, but the media will do whatever it can to present negative, even outright false, claims against the Democratic candidates. The media will call the election for McCain just as they did for Bush when he ran against Gore.
Limbaugh said that if he is indicted, he will just do his Show from inside a jail cell!! LOL I dont even think RUSH-BO has that kind of clout!! LOL
“alienating Obama supporters by the millions.”
Hey Obama alienated ME.
Go back in the archives. I was leery of the whole dynasty thing with Senator Clinton.
It was Barack Obama’s own words chased me away.
And while we are talking about fair…
The media love affair with Obama caused his….issues to be revealed VERY late in the process. We are only lucky they did not survive to be an October surprise.
But as it is? How fair was it to John Edwards that this stuff did not come out sooner?
“That system has not been used in awhile. That’s all.”
Hillary will press on, even if means destroying the Democrat’s ability to win in November. She doesn’t care. She knows that she can’t win straight up, so she is going to go for the kneecaps, even if it means handing the General to McCain.
My son was (notice the past tense) a supporter of Hillary until recently, but he has become so disgusted with her tactics that he no longer supports her candidacy.
There are more like him. Many more.
Hillary may end up delivering her acceptance speech to a half empty convention center in Denver.
“Hey Obama alienated ME.”
That’s one.
How many Obama supporters has Hillary alienated?
Millions, upon millions, upon millions.
Many of them will take a pass on the Presidential election in November.
She and Bill have pissed off way too many people.
“I don’t even remember when a party convention was anything more than just a big party.”
1980 Democrats and 1976 Republicans.
How many Democrats did Obama chase away from himself?
And what about all those supporters of Senator Clinton’s?
What? They should just roll over and join Obama?
For someone so into politics WS, you seem to have a very naive idea as to how they work.
But I guess me and political mama and kfg and Steven and others are just supposed to let you have your way?
“WSClark” –
Last month, Barack Obama raised more than $50 million in contributions, primarily from individuals giving $100 or less. Senator Clinton raised $30 million, primarily from Democratic fat cats. John Sidney McCain the Third raised $11 million, almost exclusively from Republic Party fat cats.
As “Deep Throat” told us back in 1972, “Follow the money.”
Democrats out-raised Republic 8 to 1! Think about that.
The Democrats could go to a brokered convention and come out with a Gravel/Kucinich ticket and eke out a win in November.
Senator Clinton might turn November into a close race, but she’d likely win. Senator Obama is more likely to deliver the landslide.
Let’s enjoy the Republic Party’s victory dance in March while we can. They’re lemmings.
Jed
In response to your 5:55 post:
Hey, “Irish need not apply” signs used to be all over the place, when my grandparents were a bit younger than me, and previous to that time.
Ever see the movie, “Gangs of New York”? It is not a historical drama, but the theme is sure accurate.
Irish came off the boats and were put in Blue uniforms, at gun point, and marched off to the Civil War!
You want to go back “hundreds of years” do you?
EVERY race has been subjected to slavery.
The Jews and Gypsies and even Catholics and Lutherans and others were slaves in Hitlers concentration camps.
The Soviet Union inslaved millions, in the political Gulags.
Many Native American tribes inslaved their neighbors. The Carib Indians even raised the children of rival tribes like cattle, and ATE them.
The Slavic people got their very names from the fact that they were often captured as slaves and sold to Moslems slave traders, by the Vikings and others.
Today, slavery STILL exists, in parts of the Sudan, Ethiopia and Somalia.
Yes, slavery is a horrible thing, but if we start with the attitude that “two wrongs make a WRIGHT” or “Millions of wrongs make a Wright” we will never have any real peace.
By your logic, do you justify hate by any White person who was wronged, somehow, by a Black person?
I am sure you don’t.
And, that is not even what you are talking about.
You want White people, today, to accept hatred for things that happened before we were even born!
That is absurd.
enslaved sorry
Hey I’m not at all against the idea of the convention picking other than these two nominees.
How about you WS? Or is it Obama or nothing?
“How about you WS? Or is it Obama or nothing?”
If the Clintons steal the nomination through kneecapping or arm twisting, I would support a third party bid by Obama.
Teamed with a Richardson or Bloomberg, I believe that he would capture more than enough electoral votes to throw the election to the House, where he would prevail.
Hillary has shown a total disregard for the Democratic Party – she is now even defying Nancy Pelosi. Her strategy is nothing short of scorched earth – either she wins or she takes down the party.
If necessary, Obama can win as an independent.
“EVERY race has been subjected to slavery.”
But none for as long and as severe as African Americans.
Ya really think Obama’s ego and HIS ambition is that big WS?
“she is now even defying Nancy Pelosi.”
SO?
Nancy Pelosi has been one HELLUVA disappointment herself.
More on Hagee’s deception >>>>
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=11541
Oh I think there’s a group that’s been oppressed a whole lot longer than African Americans.
Women?
“But I guess me and political mama and kfg and Steven and others are just supposed to let you have your way?”
Bullshit, J R, absolute bullshit.
Hillary wants to steal the nomination, despite the fact that Obama has an insurmountable lead.
That is letting me have MY way?
Bullshit.
“And what about all those supporters of Senator Clinton’s?”
I can assure you that Hillary has alienated far more Obama supporters than the other way around.
Are you expecting Obama to kiss her ass just because Bill demands it?
I think not.
“But none for as long and as severe as African Americans.”
The oldest records show the institution of slavery in the Persian/Arabic regions (primarily because they invented the written language). Most likely they would have enslaved people more local to the region. People of all skin color continue to be put in slavery. Some are put into sexual slavery, others are made to work the cocoa fields in Africa, others are so deep in debt that they work simply to pay bills to a corporation.
“Women?”
When were white women enslaved, bought and sold, chained and beaten, subject to rape to expand the workforce and denied basic human rights?
“When were white women enslaved, bought and sold, chained and beaten, subject to rape to expand the workforce and denied basic human rights?”
Heard of the Roman Empire?
Obama may have “an insurmountable lead” in pledge delegates.
But at best it will be a small lead.
Senator Clinton may yet carry the popular vote.
Look, for whatever reason, Obama could not win it outright within the rules.
The rules are that next it goes to the convention.
“Ya really think Obama’s ego and HIS ambition is that big WS?”
No, he has millions and millions of loyal supporters that have grown disgusted with the Democratic Party and the tactics of the Clintons.
(Like Hillary doesn’t have a HUGE ego and a HUGE ambition – no matter what it costs.)
I am dead serious – if the Clintons steal the nomination, look for a huge, unbelievable groundswell of grassroots support for a third party bid.
It will happen and I will support it.
So…
What you are telling us WS…
Is that it is YOU and maybe Obama and all these “millions” you talk about that would actually take active action to destroy the Democratic party?
You have argued your way all the way around to behind yourself.
“Look, for whatever reason, Obama could not win it outright within the rules.”
So we should just give the nomination to Hillary, right?
Barack Obama – Independent Candidate 2008.
That is what will happen.
And the American Civil War remains the worst, bloodiest war we have ever had.
The Civil War WAS reparations and penance, for the sin of slavery.
Shades of Ross Perot! I sure support an Obama 3rd party candidacy. Don’t think it will come to that though.
You have managed to turn your own arguement against yourself WS.
Such a third party action (it aint gonna happen) would DEFINITELY elect John McCain.
“Is that it is YOU and maybe Obama and all these “millions” you talk about that would actually take active action to destroy the Democratic party?”
Hillary IS taking action to destroy the Democratic Party AND Barack Obama.
Other AMERICANS take great offense to that – if necessary, we will field a third party candidate before voting for Hillary Clinton, should she STEAL the Democratic Party nomination.
“Hillary IS taking action to destroy the Democratic Party AND Barack Obama.”
How?
She is not behind the “attacks” on Obama.
She is playing within the established rules.
Obama will not run as an independent, IMHO.
Why should he?
He is young. He can do this again. If he ran as an “I” his career would be over.
Bloomberg could, maybe, take Obama as a running mate, but I doubt that option, too.
Well, the mistake I am making is this: I assume that any action will be taken with the intent to win.
If this gets really nasty, the “spoiler” option might be the motive.
“Such a third party action (it aint gonna happen) would DEFINITELY elect John McCain.”
Bullshit.
Obama would take Illinois, New York, California, Massachusetts, Vermont, Michigan, Virginia, New Mexico, Hawaii, Maine, North Carolina, Colorado and some others.
None of the three would be able to gain a majority of the Electoral College – sending the election to the House where Obama would win.
I’m so refreshed that we actually have an intelligent candidate running for prez…it’s been a LONG time since that has happened.
I like the way Obama thinks. He has the common sense and intelligence to make a great leader.
Hill/Bill drives me nuts, and although I respect McCain, he really pissed me off during the debates.
Um
Your list includes states where Obama already lost to Clinton.
It also includes Michigan whose vote he wants to not count.
I am gonna guess that Barack Obama himself would tell you to dial it back WS.
As far a American women, we were treated as second class citizens until the recent past…but we’ve not endured anything close to what the African Americans have endured in this country. You can’t compare us to slaves at all. At least we were always looked upon as being human, not as livestock to be bought and sold.
Hey, guys… This is exactly the kind of haggling that Limbaugh’s Operation CHAOS is trying to achieve!! Hillary said today that come November, the Party will come together, regardless of who is nominated. I dont think that sounds like she wants to divide the party… Obama has said numerous times that he thinks all of the delegaters from MI and FL should be seated… dont buy into the reich wing propaganda…. ok???
“He is young. He can do this again”
Nonsense – presidential campaigns are largely one and done.
“Bloomberg could, maybe, take Obama as a running mate, but I doubt that option, too.”
Bloomberg could not win, but he could run as a VP to Obama, throwing NY to Obama over Clinton.
“She is not behind the “attacks” on Obama.”
Oh, Hillary has NEVER attacked ANYBODY, right? Ms. Squeaky-Clean. Never has done an underhanded thing in her life. Ms. Plausible Deniability. Saint Hillary of New York. No suggestions of drug dealing. No attacks on his church. No attacks on his associations.
Nope. Nothing here………
Yeah, right.
WS
Sean Hannity and a few obscure bloggers before him started the pastor Wright noise.
And I knew about it 2 months before they started the ball rolling and didn’t mention it. Neither did Senator Clinton.
WS I don’t require that you dial anything back on me.
But you might want to moderate yourself a bit. You are coming off as irrational.
J R,
Capn posted this link on ‘Open’ today, to Obama’s speech on economic policies and regulations.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/27/112357/993/773/485355
Have you read it?
Does Hillary Clinton have anything similar, or better?
I’ll take a look at it cosmos.
But Obama lost me (so far anyway) with his own words.
And one of his supporters is not representing himself here.
When I expressed concerns about Obama wanting to work with Republicans while throwing folks like me and my friend kfg under the bus, WS’s reply was that we were not needed.
“himself” should be him.
“But you might want to moderate yourself a bit. You are coming off as irrational.”
I backed off of you for a time, J R, but I am sick of your condescending, holier than thou attitude.
You were an anti-choice right winger as recently as the early Nineties, if not later, and YOU are lecturing ME on the Democratic Party?
Yeah, now that’s funny.
By the way, I have NEVER been a Republican or even an Independent – I never had to walk away from my past.
1984 was the first and only time I voted for Republicans WS.
“As far a American women, we were treated as second class citizens until the recent past…but we’ve not endured anything close to what the African Americans have endured in this country. You can’t compare us to slaves at all. At least we were always looked upon as being human, not as livestock to be bought and sold.”
That’s not the case. Women are still bought and sold as commodities in the worldwide sex trade which has persisted for thousands of years. In America women became property of the man upon marriage and lost all rights to property ownership. They were refused an education, places of employment, the right to vote and a whole host of liberties based solely upon their gender. Heck, just last month a school forbid a woman to ref a game because of her gender.
“but I am sick of your condescending, holier than thou attitude.”
What you don’t like my opinion and so I am “holier than thou”?
“but women have been sold in sexual slavery for thousands of years”
Yes, they still are, but that is not an entire race that has been demeaned by slavery.
“Slavery existed in America for less than 100 years and not all Blacks were slaves and some were even the owners of slaves.”
Ah, three hundred years – not one hundred years.
“WS’s reply was that we were not needed.”
Actually, J R, it was you that said that Hillary could win the General WITHOUT the Obama supporters – would you like me to find your post for you?
“1984 was the first and only time I voted for Republicans WS.”
Were you or were you not an anti-choice protester during the “Summer of Mercy” in the early Nineties?
America has only been a country since 1776, slavery was abolished in 1863.
We likely said about the same thing about each other about the same time WS.
Your point?
Hey even dissatisfied as I am about Obama, I never advocated a civil war and splitting the Democratic party.
I spoke only for myself.
“What you don’t like my opinion and so I am “holier than thou”?”
No, it’s your “Obama should step aside (get out of the way) for the good of the party” statements that are holier than thou.
The Party is a lot more than just you, J R.
JR- WS
WS is obviously very passionate about the Obama – Clinton campaign —– he doesn’t need to dial it back — he may want to consider a better choice of words —- don’t discourage his passion (I’m sure it hasn’t)
I haven’t said much about the campaigns. But now I’m really torn I cannot in good conscience ever vote for McCain – if Kerry was a flip flopper I think he learned from McCain. Hillary is a proven liar – her term in the White House could be almost as disastrous as her husbands and this Bush. I thought Barak had the potential to be a good president he has become more than a little disappointing in the last few weeks — unless things change drastically this may be the first presidential election that I won’t vote in — I’m not a believer in selecting the lesser of 2 evils bad is bad —- shouldn’t sugar coat it
Well, maybe 1868 if you count the 14th Amendment ratification.
Ken,
The next President selects members of the Supreme Court. The remaining rational members are nearing retirement. Just recently the Supreme Court said America does not have to abide by international treaties, the few level headed justices cast dissenting votes.
The damage McCain can do will last much longer than his term in office.
“America has only been a country since 1776, slavery was abolished in 1863″
African Americans were first enslaved in America in the 1500’s. The Colonies may not have actually been America then, but the blacks were still enslaved.
No matter how you slice and dice it, they were still in chains.
My “pro life” position was not related to my politics. Not at that time anyway. Again what is your point here?
YOU want to work with Republicans and you are coming down on me because I left that party and have fought it the last what 20 years?
“Hey even dissatisfied as I am about Obama, I never advocated a civil war and splitting the Democratic party.”
You stated, without equivocation, J R, that if Obama was the Democrats presidential nominee, you would vote for the Green Party candidate.
So how is that different than my support of an Obama third party bid?
America was not even much settled until the late 1500’s there WS.
“No, it’s your “Obama should step aside (get out of the way) for the good of the party” statements that are holier than thou.”
Uh huh.
And….just what are you demanding Senator Clinton do in your entire convoluted argument here WS?
“No matter how you slice and dice it, they were still in chains.”
So were a lot of people, so many people remain still. Enslaved children still work the sugar cane fields, others work the cocoa plantations, many work in brothels, others work in sweat shops in America. The regions where people are currently working as slaves have had a much longer history of slavery than America has even existed.
I didn’t advocate my own personal decision en masse there WS.
I am trying really hard to be nice to you for the sake of the party.
I’m not your enemy.
“I left that party and have fought it the last what 20 years?”
And I never JOINED that party and have fought for Democratic candidates for FORTY years.
And you actively shouted “baby killer” at women entering a women’s health clinic in the early Nineties.
What good Democrat would do that?
There is room in the Democratic Party for pro-lifers, but not for folks that shout “baby killer!”
And I NEVER advocated that Senator Clinton run as third party.
You are calling me “holier than thou” and pontificating on me as to what a good Democrat is?
“And….just what are you demanding Senator Clinton do in your entire convoluted argument here WS?”
Clinton is BEHIND and cannot overcome Obama’s lead – that is why she should consider the Party first, not her own naked (yuk) ambition.
I could care less is she drops out, but she shouldn’t be trying to take Obama down with her.
And that is what she is doing.
“I am trying really hard to be nice to you for the sake of the party.”
Don’t bother.
WS
Would you demand that a baseball team concede a game in the 6th inning because they were 1 or 2 runs behind?
Senator Clinton is within her rights and the rules. I don’t WANT her to drop out.
“So were a lot of people, so many people remain still”
So, what is your point? Blacks should just “get over” slavery, disenfranchisement, discrimination, profiling, etc.?
What, we should just wipe the slate clean and everyone should just be happy together?
Racism is real in the United States and it has it’s roots in slavery.
“Senator Clinton is within her rights and the rules.”
Of course, she is in the game, even though she cannot catch up, until the final inning.
But she doesn’t have to take out the other team (Obama) in her quest for victory.
And that is exactly what she is trying to do.
“I’m not your enemy.”
Several weeks ago, you told me you were – what changed?
Don’t bother answering…………………………
I am going away for awhile to watch “Lil bush”
WS a convention and everything Senator Clinton is doing is entirely within the rules of the party and the bounds of fairness.
“WS a convention and everything Senator Clinton is doing is entirely within the rules of the party and the bounds of fairness.”
Yep, but she COULD try to avoid contributing to the demise of her Party but she won’t – her ambition and sense of entitlement are greater than her allegiance to her Party.
You know, the Party that made it possible for her husband to become president, the one that stood by him during impeachment, the one that supported her in her run for the Senate.
Now she is just pissing on her Party.
All because she just can’t stand the thought of seeing Barack Obama taking the Oath of Office in January.
J R,
IIRC, you are against Obama because he wants to talk, and/or work with the Republics?
Have you researched how Bill Clinton started working with the “other side” during his 2nd term as gov of Arkansas?
That was after he was defeated following his 1st term, because he had not worked with the “other side”.
You should also research his “triangulation” strategies while he was POTUS for 8 years.
Do you believe that Hillary will govern differently? If yes, why?
And don’t forget Sen. Hillary’s Iraq AUMF vote in 2002. She trusted Bush.
Several political analysts have pontificated that Hillary’s game plan is to beat down Obama so that he DOES lose to McCain in November, figuring that JSM will be a one term president at best and then she can take the White House in 2012.
From what I can see, her strategy is to either win the nomination or take down Obama. She knows that in 2016 she will be perceived as being too old for the White House, so 2008 or 2012 are her only options.
From the looks of it, her plan is working – she is taking down Obama.
WSC – in 2012 she would be (a) too old and (b) hated for helping McSame in 2008. IF that is her strategy it will be disasterous for her, the Party, and, most importantly, the country.
My reference to bein ‘too old’ is not age per se but rather the fact that she will have been in the spotlight too long.
I truly wish that Hillary had been President before instead of Bill.
Bill is a schmoozer. He wants to be loved.
Hillary has no such reservations.
Hillary the repuke enabler
“My reference to bein ‘too old’ is not age per se but rather the fact that she will have been in the spotlight too long.”
Unfortunately, America is still a sexist country.
I could not imagine a woman that looked like Golda Meier (former Israeli PM) being electable, even though a male equivalent would be considered distinguished or seasoned.
Hillary is already drawing fire for her appearance (Her Thighness, etc.) so four more years would not help her cause.
I do not agree in any manner with those positions, but that is America 2008.
I am far more concerned with her naked ambition and disregard for the wellbeing of her Party than I am with her age.
“Hillary has no such reservations.”
There is not much chance of it, either.
J R posted March 27, 2008 at 9:36 pm
“Bill is a schmoozer. He wants to be loved.
Hillary has no such reservations.”
And J R’s proof of his opinion is what? Her false claims of sniper fire in Bosnia?
So much for your concern as to the well being of the party there WS.
I’ll be on the veranda. Since you and Obama are on the cross.
Now be nice cosmos. I have.
I want a Democrat to win. I am not convinced Obama is one.
And it was his words fueled my uncertainty.
little jack horner
“I want a Democrat to win. I am not convinced Obama is one.”
So if Obama is the candidate, you will vote for the Green Party candidate?
Damn, and I only said that I would support a third party bid by Obama IF (and only if) Hillary stole the nomination by kneecapping or arm twisting.
“tommyjohn”
How’s the elbow doing, Tommy?
J R,
And your top priority tonight was watching “Lil bush”, instead of reading what Obama said about U.S. economics, and regulations.
No additional comment is needed…
WS what you define as “knee capping” and “arm twisting” is called POLITICS.
So what you have just said is that you demand Senator Clinton concede the nomination. If she plays within established rules and beats Obama you will regard the nomination as “stolen”.
Let’s review.
You are for Obama. Who I oppose because he says he wants to work with Republicans.
If Obama does not get the nomination, you advocate he go third party and embrace the KNOWN Republican lites Bloomberg or Richardson as a running mate.
WS my conclusion is you are pointed in the wrong direction in your fight.
At best, you are for Republican lite.
Well I have had enough of Republican lite. I have had enough of Republicans period. And so has America.
Geez we don’t HAVE to work with them. We can run them over. Obama either does not understand or opposes that.
Well cosmos I have heard enough of Obama’s words that I don’t give them first consideration as to my attention.
I’ll get to them. The nomination process is far from over.
“So what you have just said is that you demand Senator Clinton concede the nomination.”
No, that is not what I said, and you know it.
“At best, you are for Republican lite.”
Phuck you, J R, at least I have NEVER been a Republican.
“We can run them over”
No, we can’t. We don’t have a 60/40 edge in the Senate – without that, Democrats will HAVE to work with Republicans.
“If Obama does not get the nomination, you advocate he go third party and embrace the KNOWN Republican lites Bloomberg or Richardson as a running mate.”
Phuck you, J R.
You are a Democrat in name only.
Mostly, you are just a hater, at best.
Phuck you.
J R posted March 27, 2008 at 10:02 pm
“You are for Obama. Who I oppose because he says he wants to work with Republicans.”
If Sen. Clinton is elected, she will have to “work with Republicans”.
It’s a somple fact. The U.S. is split about 50/50, D’s vs. R’s, with some additional independents.
You cannot simply “run them over”.
But live in your fantasy world if you want to, J R.
Nothing I have posted here tonight is hateful WS.
What you just did was.
I am somewhat of llan amateur anthropologist. And the thing I have noticed most about the “slavery” in this country (which was well-established before 1776) is that it was 99.99% related to racial slavery.
Many societies/cultures in history have had slave systems. But in many of those cultures, slaves were a recognized “class” in the society. And, if memory serves me, most of those cultures had systems of slavery wherein a slave could “buy” his/her freedom. In which case, that person was equal in all ways with all other citizens. (e.g., Check out slavery in the Roman Empire)
But in this country, we had a slave system based almost entirely on Race. That was totally different from all other slave cultures;
and not only racial slavery, but slaves not recognized as even being full and equal humans.
In that sense, this country had a form of slavery that was not even well received in other slave nations of the world.
Some have mentioned that there were some Black slave owners. I believe that would make up an infinitessimal percentage of slavery. As far as the source of the slave sellers, yes, many of them were Black(Moslem Blacks in Western Africa), but many were Dutch/S. African slave traders as well.
I just feel like the insidious nature of slavery here — racial slavery — had an impact on our history, and on our present. And the fact that it took from 1863 until 1964 to get a Civil Rights Act passed through Congress, speaks volumes! Not to mention the number of Rosa Parks’ that lived and protested for equality.
“What you just did was.”
Yep, in response to your “at best, Republican Lite” comment.
Phuck you, J R.
Dumbass.
Spelling going there “cosmos”?
Let the record show. It is not the supporters of Senator Clinton turning on the base. It is the supporters of Senator Obama who want to trade friends to work with enemies.
I am going to write to an Obama supporter that I respect. Some of his supporters need to rein it in.
JR — IF Mrs Clinton becomes President Clinton, and she has no more of a majority in the Senate than she has now; How do you propose that she get legislation passed that she wants, UNLESS she works with the other side of the aisle??
Without a 60/40 majority or bigger, she will HAVE to work with Republicans… As will ANY Democrat elected to the White House. And IF a Green Candidate should win — That President would have to work with BOTH Republicans AND Democrats!! It takes cooperation on all sides!!
The process is playing out fairly and according to the rules.
We, each of us do what we feel best to influence that.
I do not feel that Obama is the best nominee.
I have done less than my worst to address that.
But I treat no one on the Democrat side badly and I require the same of them.
I want to beat the Republicans.
“But I treat no one on the Democrat side badly and I require the same of them.”
At best, Republican Lite?
That isn’t treating a Democrat badly?
In the Spring of ‘68, at the age of fifteen, I was walking the streets of downtown Detroit passing out leaflets for Bobby Kennedy and you have the freakin’ gall to call ME Republican Lite?
At least I have never called a woman a “baby killer.”
Phuck you, J R.
J R,
Thank you for attacking my “spelling”.
So now tell everyone reading this thread…
How much time have you spent listening to Rush, Hannity, Hillary, et al attacking Obama?
How much time have you spent repeating their attacks on this blog, and attacking posters who disagree with you.
And… how much time have you spent actually researching Obama’s policies, and ideas?
I judge on what I know WS.
Your desire to do anything possible to elect Obama and your choice of running mates for him in your delusional third party race for him are all I have to use.
I have said before. Senator Clinton appealed today.
If there is to be a Democratic party civil war, it will not be the supporters of Senator Clinton that start it.
I am listening to, as I type here, the PBS program, Bush’s War, and you guys are fighting amongst ourselves? That is very troubling to me.
Tomorrow, we will hear the gloating of assholes like AmWay, Repubican, Regular, and Max – that is what you want? Let’s beat those jerk offs (what Regular has called me – in his blog civilty…) in whatever way we can. That is my objective. Please join me.
Ladies of the WEBlog, this is for you. And also a little history lesson in the treatment of women in the not-so-distant past, how they got the vote, and maybe a little “why”. Oh, and this little piece of history is a part of an upcoming HBO special, “Iron Jawed Angels”.
How Women Got To Vote
A short history lesson on the privilege of voting…
The women were innocent and defenseless. And by the end of the night, they were barely alive. Forty prison guards wielding clubs and their warden’s blessing went on a rampage against the 33 women wrongly convicted of “obstructing sidewalk traffic.”
They beat Lucy Burn, chained her hands to the cell bars above her head and left her hanging for the night, bleeding and gasping for air. They hurled Dora Lewis into a dark cell, smashed her head against an iron bed and knocked her out cold. Her cellmate, Alice Cosu, thought Lewis was dead and suffered a heart attack. Additional affidavits describe the guards grabbing, dragging, beating, choking, slamming, pinching, twisting and kicking the women.
Thus unfolded the “Night of Terror ” on Nov. 15, 1917, when the warden at the Occoquan Workhouse in Virginia ordered his guards to teach a lesson to the suffragists imprisoned there because they dared to picket Woodrow Wilson’s White House for the right to vote.
For weeks, the women’s only water came from an open pail. Their food–all of it colorless slop–was infested with worms. When one of the leaders, Alice Paul, embarked on a hunger strike, they tied her to a chair, forced a tube down her throat and poured liquid into her until she vomited. She was tortured like this for weeks until word was smuggled out to the press.
“Women?” JR suggested. Think about it.
To tell the truth “cosmos” you are an unknown quantity here.
Now you are good on the environment and fossil fuels.
But deal is I don’t know you.
“Attacking posters who disagree with you”
Well USUALLY this is only Republicans. On my side I only hit back when hit first.
“If there is to be a Democratic party civil war, it will not be the supporters of Senator Clinton that start it.”
No, but it will be the Clinton supporters that CAUSED it.
Win at any cost, even to her party, that is the mantra of Hillary and Bill Clinton.
Thanks RD. I needed that.
I am sorry that you do not understand the rules as to the Democratic nomination WS.
“No, but it will be the Clinton supporters that CAUSED it.”
Re: a Dem civil war.
Why? Because we doubt YOUR Republican sympathizer and apologist candydate?
Maybe McCain should win, I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Obama and Clinton are putting on a dog and pony show and seemed to be more worried about being the first Woman, or Black president more than being the right president, I know this is evident because they are tearing the Democratic Party apart because neither of them are humble enough to step down and unite the party, they both have too much pride. Plus their bent on drawing down the troop numbers as soon as they get in office without out really thinking of the damadge we will do if we abandone Iraq.
“I am sorry that you do not understand the rules as to the Democratic nomination WS.”
Phuck you, J R, dumbass.
I am listening to, as I type here, the PBS program, Bush’s War, and you guys are fighting amongst ourselves? That is very troubling to me.
Tomorrow, we will hear the gloating of assholes like AmWay, Repubican, Regular, and Max – that is what you want? Let’s defeat <i(a better word) those jerk offs (what Regular has called me – in his blog civilty…) in whatever way we can. That is my objective. Please join me.
“Because we doubt YOUR Republican sympathizer and apologist candydate?”
No shithead, if you were actually paying attention, it is Hillary’s desire to either steal the nomination or to make sure that Obama cannot win in November.
Her strategy is obvious to anyone with half a brain (or in your case a quarter of a brain) that she is determined to take down Obama for being so uppity as to challenge her entitlement to the presidency.
She will do anything to make sure that Obama does NOT win in November.
If she loses the nomination, look for her to Lieberman and endorse McCain.
That is YOUR candidate, J R.
Even you must have noticed that Bill was praising McCain recently and Hillary herself has yet to criticize JSM for ANYTHING.
Watch for Hillary to flip if Obama is the nominee.
Well I tire.
Here is what’s us do.
Now it was Obama ran me off from supporting him.
He says the GOP is the party of ideas. He extolled Reagan.
He attracts Republican voters.
THESE are the reasons I oppose but still have defended Obama.
I need to hear back from the voters for Obama.
And I have not and will not be abusive or in foul language in the asking.
Clark, I’ve not met you, but I do like and respect you. J R, I’ve met you and do like and respect you, too.
I will support which ever candidate our party nominates.
That is not difficult to do, is it?
Night.
Sorry, SD, but the gloves are off now – I am not going to tolerate a newcomer to the Democratic Party that has the gall to call me “at best, Republican Lite” after my years of support for the Democrats.
Enough is enough.
“He says the GOP is the party of ideas. He extolled Reagan.”
Bullshit and you know it – that is NOT what he said – god damn it, you know that is NOT true.
Yet you continue to play that stupid Rovian game.
That is why there is no point in discussing any issues with you, J R.
Damn.
I have been trying Steven.
But WS wants to take it personal.
Let’s go WS. Maybe I can teach you to teach YOUR candydate how to fight.
Since you so want to fight those on your side?
J R posted March 27, 2008 at 10:51 pm
“To tell the truth “cosmos” you are an unknown quantity here.”
So that’s your response to my simple questions to you at,
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/03/does-clinton-want-mccain-to-win/#comment-321128
That’s very pathetic…
When I heard the Wright/Race speech from Obama, I thought, “OMG, this is a man who might be willing to tell the truth about himself and race.” I was moved to read The Audacity of Hope. It was excellent.
I will support either Hillary or Obama. I am leaning more toward Obama now.
Good night, all.
“Maybe I can teach you to teach YOUR candydate how to fight.”
Phuck you, J R……………………….
Remember what you threatened Econ with?
Remember that?
You might not want to come within ten feet of me, boy, or you might experience what you threatened Rossell with.
I will go back to my original promise to Mr. Davis, you are to be ignored, J R.
Loser.
“Let’s go WS”
Is that a challenge to a physical confrontation, J R?
Guys, guys — It’s not Obama and Clinton fighting against each other… It’s the media soun byte and video clip artists that are pitting them against each other like two sports teams… That is what has me up in arms… They are covering this like a sporting event!! I HEARD Hillary say today that her main goal is to get a Democrat in the White House… which ever one of them it is!!
Yesterday, Obama said the SAME THING…
They are caught between the media cameras and microphones… Lets hnot all them to do this to OUR PARTY!!
JR — Hillary will HAVE to work with the opposition to pass legislation… Obama will HAVE to work with the opposition to pass legislation… Thats life in political America!!
JR — I am not sure what “rules” you keep referring to as pertains to the Nomination… Myi firstVote for President was in 1972… I might have all of you on the Age Thing… not sure about Clark…
But, gentlemen, DO NOT allow Hannity, and Beck, and Limbaugh, and the rest of the mic swallowing reich wing dictate to the Democratic Party what WE are going to do in this election!! They STOLE it in 2000…. Dont let Limbaugh’s Operation CHAOS dominate it in 2008!!!
Thank you!!
Forgive an observation “WS”
But when push came to shove on this blog, you ran away.
NOW you want to embrace Econ of all folks?
Oh and while we are calling names WS?
Sellout.
Come on you guys. I am really going to bed now.
You both are very decent people who can have supper at my house any time.
Night…
“But when push came to shove on this blog, you ran away.”
I was taking care of my 92 year old father you god damned moron!
Phuck you, J R.
“NOW you want to embrace Econ of all folks?”
No, but when you threatened to knock his teeth out, J R, I called foul.
Ya’ want to knock my teeth out, J R?
JR — In my entire lifetime, I cannot remember a time when Republicans stood for Diversity. I can also NOT remember a time when Democrats did NOT stand for Diversity, and a multiplicity of opinions. That is what makes the Democratic Party great!!
Republicans dont have room for the gay agenda in their party; they have no room for pro-choice in their party; they have no room for individual freedoms in their party; they always look for ways to CONTROL people…
Us Democrats — WE stand for nearly the total opposite of all of the above!! Thats what keeps us Great… Thats what makes us BETTER…. It is only because we insist that our government live within that kind of plurality, that the right wing nuts call us Socialists, and Anti-American, and ling religious epithets at us… They try to make us appear to be what we are not!!
Now, IF we do nothing but fight amongst ourselves, it makes THEM look as if they are right!! I dont ever want them to look as if they are right!! LOL Do you??
Steven, they are both ignoring both of us!! ;-(
paulthecon said if he was standing next to me he would spit on me.
I said he would spit teeth.
I have said all evening that I do not want to fight with you “WS”.
Ummmm the WSClark I know on here would never support Econ 101 for anything!! Not even chief termite killer!! J R — you sure this is the REAL WSClark??
“I have said all evening that I do not want to fight with you “WS”.”
That is the best thought that you have had all night, J R, I never lose………………
Maybe you are a bit rational after all.
“you sure this is the REAL WSClark??”
I didn’t say that I support Rossell in any manner – I just called J R on his threat to make Econ spit teeth.
I do not support or endorse Rossell in any manner, but J R crossed the line -just as he did when he called me “at best, Republican Lite.”
Dem are fighting words where I come from.
Oh now don’t mistake my desire to preserve party unity as knuckling under to an apologist like you “WS”
JR — WS — Tomorrow, being Friday — listen very carefully to the individual sound bytes spoken by Hillary AND Obama… Try to tune out what the commentators are saying about WHAT they say… just listen to what the Candidates say…
Then, see if I am not being accurate when I say that BOTH of them want as their goal, a Democrat living at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. come January, 2009… WHOever that might be!! Cause, guys, THAT is what I heard yesterday and today from the Candidates… But NOT what I heard from the “announcers” doing the “play by play”
Please listen to them, OK??
“Oh now don’t mistake my desire to preserve party unity as knuckling under to an apologist like you “WS”
Phuck you, J R, still wanna knock my teeth out?
J R,
I have a simple solution.
Just stand up for the opinions that you believe tonight.
Hand write all of the reasons that you support Sen. Clinton, and oppose Sen. Obama.
Make copies, get them notarized and sign them. Give them to your son, other family members, neighbors, friends, etc…
Then let the future decide whether or not your opinion tonight is correct.
It’s very simple.
I have to close two sales in the morning… See you guys later on tomorrow!! Have a good night, OK??
BTW, the absence of the disruptors tonite would seem to speak volumes! Not sure what it means, but it could be a rough weekend ahead!
It is you getting belligerant here “WS”
It is also you looking very foolish and quite frankly insane.
I’ve lost a great deal of respect for you “cosmos”.
The right hates Senator Clinton.
Senator Obama wants to work with the right.
Occams razor.
JR — Thank you very much for totally ignoring everything I have directed to you here tonite. i dont know what that means, but Thank you anyway.
“It is you getting belligerant here “WS””
“But when push came to shove on this blog, you ran away.”
“I am sorry that you do not understand the rules as to the Democratic nomination WS.”
“Sellout.”
“Maybe I can teach you to teach YOUR candydate how to fight.”
Teach me to fight, J R, please.
WS, your URL is not working properly. You might want to check the address??
“WS, your URL is not working properly. You might want to check the address??”
Time to change anyway – Bart has become a J R like Obama hater – I have been a fan of his since the Lying Nazi Whore days, but his stuff has gotten very offensive lately – maybe it is his leukemia – but it is time to change.
How about a link to…….. Obama!!!!!
I’ll leave it where I started it “WS”.
“I’ll leave it where I started it “WS”.”
Ya’ mean yer not gonna teach me how to fight like a good Democrat, J R?
Damn, I was looking so forward to it.
J R posted March 27, 2008 at 11:51 pm
“The right hates Senator Clinton.”
Well duuuh… that’s why the “right” is attacking Obama. And Rush is urging the “right” to vote for Clinton.
But go ahead J R, and do what the “right”, and Rush want you to do.
And J R, also be sure to explain to your son, et al, all of the points that you disagree about in Obama’s economic speech,
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/27/112357/993/773/485355
Which you probably have not read yet, since you had to instead watch ‘Lil Bush’, and make flame posts on this blog.
(chortles)
And still, JR, Thank you so much for responding to nothing I have tried to say to you this evening.
Please have a good night, and PLEASE, ALL, listen to what the Candidates Say… Not what the “play by play” announcers SAY they said. I think that will help draw the party together!
Nite all!
Well,
for all I know?
“WS” “Cosmos” and “Regular” are all the same person.
Anyways that is how I’m playing it.
Unless I know otherwise.
“Well, for all I know?”
And I know that YOU don’t know shit, J R.
That puts you at the same level as McCluer.
He doesn’t know shit either.
I guess you and Irregular must be blood brothers.
jimmymac,
Considering your very lame, inaccurate, ineffective, and boring posts on this blog,
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/03/open-thread-326/#comment-320519
I suggest that you replace your trademark “(chortles)” with “(drools)”.
It’s much more accurate.
When McCluer says (chortles) that is his euphemism for spanking his Cheney. His 3D blow up doll leaked all her air out so he is just left with Rosie now.
Or should I say, “he is right with Rosie.”
In McCluer’s world, “chortles” has a whole new meaning.
Disgusting.
J R,
Like I said upthread, tell your son, and others your opinions.
Let him, and them, decide in the future, whether or not your opinions tonight are correct.
As long as men are walking the earth, there will be war. Why don’t you all just quit pissin’ on the trees?
When women finally become the majority in government, including one as president..it’ll be great to see how the country changes when you take the egos and testosterone out of the equation.
You can bet that no middle aged female politican will have to resign due being involved in a sex scandel! They might actually find the time to run the country.
Off to work….my paper isn’t getting delivered now until after daylight…so this is the next best way to wake up. See ya..have a good one!
Concerning slavery in the US.
http://www.amazon.com/Slavery-Another-Name-Re-Enslavement-Americans/dp/0385506252/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206707351&sr=8-1
What is disturbing is since quite possibly the truly worst president ever (the actual title is probably between Buchanan and the first President Johnson), the American South in particular was not only able to create a segregated system, they created a slavery system which particularly targeted black men, either through share cropping (the dishonest practice of claiming that the crops that a man raised failed to pay for his expenses) but, more disturbingly, black men were routinely arrested on trumped up charges and given essentially life sentences to work for companies (particularly mining companies). Noew, this sort of slavery was also done, at least in terms of debt based slavery, in the industrial northeast using immigrant labor (some of those huddled and tired never did survive their immigrant experience, of course, their descendents are not alive to tell their story). However, the specific targeting of African Americans in the American south for compulsory labor is a very unfortunate and not well known story of American history.
Slavery is still going on in this country, but now it is sexual slavery. Some far eastern crime syndicates (e.g., the Korean mafia) smuggle young girls from their home countries into the US to work prostitution. These girls were either sold by their families or even kidnapped into slavery. Truly “illiegal” immigrants who want to be sent home.
I suggest that you replace your trademark “(chortles)” with “(drools)”.
Cosmos, may I submit “(incoherent babbling)” for our dear Regular? Just a suggestion, of course. Sort of like most of the right wing personna on this blog, when it comes to the Dem candidates…or pretty much anything.
Odd how one word evokes so many responses. :)
A new poll shows Senator Obama beating McCain by a whopping 6 points in a general match up.
Senator Clinton beats old John by 5 points.
We have two prospective nominees. The right is stuck with one. I am no more happy with Obama than Obama supporters are with Senator Clinton.
But at least both sides still have the chance to show why their choice is best.
JR,
I doubt that I ever said this:
—
J R
Posted March 27, 2008 at 11:31 pm | Permalink
paulthecon said if he was standing next to me he would spit on me.
I said he would spit teeth.
I have said all evening that I do not want to fight with you “WS”.
—
I said, in fact, that If I saw you on the side of the road and you needed help, I would stop to help you.
Your politics are really screwed up, but you are still a human being and I help everyone, all the time.
::,
“But in this country, we had a slave system based almost entirely on Race.”
Originally, slavery here was religion based, with Catholics capturing and enslaving Protestants and vice versa. I had an ancestor who was kidnapped in Belfast and sold to a protestant family in Boston in the late 17th century. During a brief stab at ecumenical peace, it was decided that Africans and Indians (being nonchristian) were the better choice for international relations. Racism came later.
Women were very involved with the KKK
Democrat President Woodrow Wilson was very sympathetic to the KKK. In 1915 President Wilson watched “Birth of a Nation” in a private screening in the White House.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kkk#cite_note-45
The Women’s Christian Temperence Movement (Prohibition) The Women’s Sufferage Movement (Women’s right to vote) and the KKK were all very closely linked.
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~UG97/blues/klan2.html
Kathleen Blee is a great historian and writer:
http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/5625.php
“Women of the Klan” is a good book. I can not find my copy.
“It is Blee’s contention that wome n joined the WKKK not merely because of bigoted tendencies, but also because the Klan provided a women’s rights-based agenda, the recognition of civic activism, and the chance to be heard collectively as women. At a time when suffrage, temperance, morali ty, and patriotism were causing political tensions to run high, the WKKK gave women a political voice with which to articulate their gender ideology, as well as a means of legitimizing their civic and social organizations. “
Obama can’t win: he’s not white.
Clinton can’t win: she’s not male.
Simple.
suffer my spelling of suffrage lol
I need to make a correction. The HBO special, Iron Jawed Angels debuted on February 15. I couldn’t find a rerun date, but it’s expected to go to DVD at some point.
Econ 101 – You seem to be highly infatuated with a lot of Racist Crap. What history books have you been reading?
::
or CHAS
Actually, I like to burst the bubbles of elitist snobs that like to call the Republican Party “racist”
I like to point out that the Democrat Party is the historial home of slavery, Jim Crow and the KKK.
I like to point out that many of the early supporters of voting rights for women were racists.
I like to point out that the strongholds of the KKK were in Northern, Democrat states.
The truth hurts, Chas!
Paul – but I would also point out that many of the die-hard Dixiecrats became the core of the ‘new’ Republic party in the old south.
Ben
Of course there is plenty of blame to go around.
I refuse to carry more than my share.
Agreed. In fact, that Jim Crow legacy is part of why I grew up as a Republican in Georgia back then.
Econ?? Chas. is not : : Square Peg!!! What is there that is making your brain malfunction?? Can you not READ??? Please stop with your LIES!!
Hey Chas,
What do you think about the below link?:
http://www.answering-islam.org.uk/Responses/Abualrub/allahs_identity.htm
Hey Dems,
It seems that the leading dem candidates are taking it down to the end all the way to the convention.
Will they split apart due to race?
Oh boy.
Thnaks, J R! No hurry but email it sometime, please.
Ooops, wrong thread.
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