New York Times columnist David Brooks gives Hillary Clinton only a 5 percent chance of being able to win the nomination, now that there won’t be revotes in the Florida and Michigan primaries and she is steadily losing superdelegates. Yet for that 5 percent chance, here’s what Brooks says Clinton is going to put her party through:
“For three more months (maybe more!) the campaign will proceed along in its Verdun-like pattern,†he wrote. “There will be a steady rifle fire of character assassination from the underlings, interrupted by the occasional firestorm of artillery when the contest touches upon race, gender or patriotism.â€
This all benefits John McCain. Brooks wrote: “McCain’s approval ratings have soared 11 points. He is now viewed positively by 67 percent of Americans. A month ago, McCain was losing to Obama among independents by double digits in a general election matchup. Now McCain has a lead among this group.
“For three more months, Clinton is likely to hurt Obama even more against McCain, without hurting him against herself. And all this is happening so she can preserve that 5 percent chance.â€
274 Comments
Hey Dems,
It seems like the leading dem candidates are about to split the party and take this down all the way to the convention because of race.
Oh boy.
I thought this was the all inclusive party?
Can’t you all play nice and get along?
Actually the vast majority of Democrats DO want to get along and wish both Clinton and Obama would stop their divisive tactics. We realize that we need to put the welfare of America ahead of petty partisanship and that a McSame presidency with its 100-year war and even higher deficits would be disasterous for our country.
Republicans would never do a thing like this. It’s a major reason why they win elections and Democrats spend their time in the “Wilderness” wondering what went wrong. Republicans work as a team. Democrats have no concept of what a team is. You have to look no further than this blog to see that. A good Democrat who believes in Democratic principals would vote for the Democratic candidate come November. Instead, a lot of Democrats will vote for McCain or Nader.
Looks to me like we can depend on 12 more years of Republican rule (if McCain lives that long).
There’s just nothing as entertaining as watching Democrats march over the cliff in the name of principal.
Walking away from the opinion, I get the impression that what he is saying is that the country is not ready for a woman or a Black man to be President. That in the end, no matter what the down sides are with the candidate. When you throw the choices between an “intelligent, Black, man“, “an experienced, woman” and “a Rich, experienced, White, man“. The winning combination will still be the “Rich, experienced, white, man“ and the Democrats would have been better off with Edwards?
I think Obama after listen to several of his speeches will have the same problem as Ron Paul would have had. He will be speaking over the average voters head, while Mc Cain will depend on slogans, quip’s and adages. Obama will use fact, analysis and informed thoughts to counter. Which leave the choice for the average voter between simply, easy to grasp, pictures or having to actually think about the subject at hand.
Giving the time constrains of modern man, they will favor the cartoon concepts.
McCain-Feingold brought about a disappointing election process. It gives an unfair advantage to candidates the media chooses to cover. The American voters are supposed to choose their president, not the media.
PR31 I do not know how Mc Cain/ Feingold has anything to do with it, but the media does seem to be picking the candidates. Since by and large listening to the candidates does not seem to be a wealth spring of information. We depend on the media to fill in the blanks and they have been picking and choosing what is covered. Thus pointing the voter in the direction they want them to go and sinking or supporting a candidacy.
Hillary didn’t drop Obama’s ratings, he did that all himself. I would NOT ever want to be a part of the Republican ‘team’ I’m very grateful that my party has the foresight to choose an ‘intelligent black man’ or an ‘experienced white woman’. If Obama loses simply because he’s a black man, I never want to hear another word from white people saying that blacks whine too much about their disadvantage. Republicans have created this mess with their crossover voting in the first place. If Hillary were to pull such a thing you republicans would have been all over her. And we march closer and closer to a more divided nation. I’m ready for it. I’d love to live in a land free of republicans.
Dear Political Mom,
How’s Obama going to unify the country when you have an attitude like that?
Just proves that the Clintons aren’t really interested in what’s best for the party or their country, they’re just out to grab power for themselves. We haven’t had a truly great president since Reagan, we’ve had bumblers who crave power and when they get it, they abuse it like Bush or waste it on interns like Bill Clinton.
Ultimately, the risks are too complex to unravel with any level of certainty.
The Democrats, though, are unquestionably toying with fate, showing every sign of opening the bag of wind and being blown out to sea indefinitely as a result of negative campaigning.
If the day-to-day bummer of utterly meaningless accusation persists–and the Clintons give every indication of steering the ship with Agamemnon-like selfishness, arrogance and blindness, right to the Trojan War in Denver–then it will take a wise tactician indeed to relight the flame that burned for progressives in early February.
No telling how many independent types or just plain angry denizens of the left will have heard the siren song from the other side, drinking of the “straight-talk, maverick” wine, even if it’s imitation merlot, sure to provide cottonmouth and nausea by morning.
Even if the conflict drags on through the summer, however, McCain will have himself to thank for having driven not one but two Trojan Horses right smack into the heart of his own campaign, with the door sliding open and the carriers of hard truth laying waste to his previous advances.
Trojan Horse number one is his decision to run as Commander-In-Chief in support of the chaos in Iraq, trumpeting an absurd vision of enlightened, democratic progress when all that’s really available are a complex network of insurgencies (read Fred Kaplan at Slate), occupying territories with guns and ammo. We are not in the realm of Madison here, creating a brilliant system of checks and balances, but merely waiting to determine who’s the toughest. Meanwhile, American lives and American money are being squandered daily, and the light is coming on in the mind’s eye of many a thinking voter.
Trojan Horse number two is the “maverick’s” decision to pander to his right-wing base on the tanking economy, offering nothing but the peacepipe of so-called free market magic amid a hurly-burly procession of bad news and deregulation assurances, guaranteed to drop like a hard-landing stone in the ears of people looking for real solutions.
The senator, therefore, is caught in his own web, volunteering for the war albatross and the economy albatross to be hung around his neck, if only his opponents can shake free of hubris in time to get the ship sailing fairly toward home.
No telling how the winds will finally blow.
Sigh…
A lot going on here for so few posts. Well let’s take it from the top.
(strapping on my scuba gear so’s I can go down to the bottom of Obama’s tank to find Phil)
“now that there won’t be revotes in the Florida and Michigan primaries”
This ignores political reality. It is very likely that when Senator Clinton wins in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Florida will increasingly demand to be part of this evolving story. Even if they don’t, their delegates will likely be seated at the convention. For the DNC NOT to do …something about these two key states is political death.
“she is steadily losing superdelegates. ”
Uh huh. That’s the card Obama is waving.
Yeah he got 3 supers this week. 3.
The big guns like John Edwards, and Al Gore are holding their fire. There’s a reason for that.
“This all benefits John McCain”….etc boilerplate yada yada
How so? More people than ever are being made part of the process. Turnout is record.
And McCain is REALLY good at hurting himself. Almost every time he opens his mouth he manages to say something that is gonna bite him. Too, he has finanace issues. The Dem candidates in their continuing effort are outearning him 8 to 1.
And besides?
Senator Clinton is not doing anything wrong or dirty. She was not behind the character revelations on Obama. She is exercising her fair and legal option to continue to pursue the nomination against a candidate that the media has largely given a pass.
And a candidate that many Democrats are increasingly leery of. What else is out there to learn about Obama? You can bet and I can confirm for you that the right is looking really close now. THEY are STUCK with McCain. I don’t want Dems stuck with a candidate that we quite frankly don’t know all that well.
More to address here. But this one is going long.
Should be zero percent — cant afford another liar in the white house would be the 3rd in a row
Oops I missed the top.
“Clinton hurting Obama over a 5 percent chance”
Yeah. That’s a five percent chance to win the pledge delegates. Well, Obama has only a slightly larger chance to win that way. And momentum is not with him.
Like I say, lots to address here.
“Republicans would never do a thing like this. ”
Ronald Reagan did exactly this in 1976.
momma. Do you have a problem with the Democrats in Florida that crossed over and voted for McCain? Why has the media and Democrat pols suddenly decided that the Clintoons are bald faced liars and have begun to expose all of their lies? Guess you can’t keep a good whore bought.
The point is that democrats in general hate HillBilly Clinton, who represent the elite progressives in the party.
Also, the dems are responsible for changing the parties rules by ensuring that the electoral college is prominent over the popular vote, i.e. the superdelegates.
Also, the current dem party , as fractured as it is, in reference to the Michigan and Florida debacle, has caused their own crisis.
This thread PROVES that Senator Clinton staying in does not hurt Democrats.
Yeah the editors are in the tank for Obama and this is another hit Hillary thread.
But. ALL the light and sound is with the Democrats. The editors apparently consider McCain too boring to dedicate a thread to. That’s too bad. I think Senator McCain seeking the endorsement of the bigot pastor Hagee, getting it, then lying about it is very interesting. But folks are just not interested much in old John.
MOM you may read from time to time something I say about Islamic Fundamentalist movements. But here it is again: “Judging from the history of such movement, given time they fail under their own actions.”.
The same will be said of the Republican Party, because of some of the actions and a sect that is amoral in their actions. The Party is going to fall, we will not go away and in time be rebuilding by honest, and moral people like me. As I said, as to core beliefs the two parties are not that different it just how we perceive the correct course to solve the problems.
This is not meant as a put down of your candidate, more an observation. Clinton’s plan is more an out and out bail out of all concerned. Throwing money at the problem and even worst at a time when money is a key issue. The Government gets it money as it stands from the common people and in the case of the Bush economics.
Just print more money without it having a real value or borrowing it from other countries. It is the common people’s wealth and not the government’s whom welfare is key. If the common people and that includes every citizen of the country is not on a firm financial standing. The only way that Clinton can pull off her plan would be to continue the Bush economic plan.
Now Mc Cain’s in reality is very similar to Bush’s, wait and see then throw money at the problem when it means forestalling a collapse of major institutions. Both Clinton and Mc Cain’s plan will just continue the problem and in the end cause a collapse later down the road. To me Neither is very “Republican” so yes I am saying Mc Cain is not being very fiscally conservative i.e. Republican.
As to cross over votes, some Republicans will vote for even Hillary since they have been so estranged from the GOP. And yes a small segment did cross over in the primaries solely to get Hillary as the Democratic candidate. She in a head to head with Mc Cain will be an equal match in the general. The is the best bet for the Republicans to keep the White House. For once again it will be voting for the lesser of two evils. And continue the Partisan divide, so in 2012 either the voters will have forgotten about Bush and if Hillary does become President will have so undone the hopes of another Democratic President. If Mc Cain makes it then by then the tide will have turned by 2012 and with the Democrats as the majority in both houses ever ill would be seen as their fault.
You will not see a day without Republicans, you will see a day where the party is so margin-ized that they are totally ineffective.
Republicans work as a team.
To screw everyone, nano.
The partisanship referred to above is really very apparent in the dem party.
The elite dems and the populist dems are slugging it out.
One believes they deserve the nomination and the other is willing to promise everybody everything just to get elected to be brought about by the largest tax increase in US History.
So just how is that going to help out national debt?
Hold on to your wallet!
The Senate Majority leader thinks Hill-Billy should drop out. :)
Israel wants either McCain or Hillary to be US president, but fears Obama will make them comply with international law. That will stop the Palestinian conflict, slash the price of crude oil in half and bring peace to the region, while fixing the US economy.
Israel rates Obama as their last choice for US president, so Hillary { along with Sen. Joe Lieberman } helping “100 year war McCain” is no surprise.
Well the cons are sure interested in this.
They do NOT however get to lie.
Senator Harry Reid, the Senate Majority leader has NOT endorsed a candidate.
Nice try James.
Yes Ed I have seen why Israel would want either Hillery or Mccain.
Senator Yawn McSame has released his first campaign commercial.
It makes much of the fact that he was held for five years as a prisoner of war.
The man truly is a hero.
Pin several medals on him. Shower him with the love and respect he deserves.
But five years in a prisoner of war camp HAS to have left deep and maybe unknown mental scars.
You give a guy like this all the respect in the world. But you have to question the wisdom of making him the President of the United States. He deserves the best of care, not the height of power.
American I will agree with one part of your observation in that there are quite a few promises. Ah I keep thinking of an ole saying about all hat but I can not remember the rest! But to be honest that is not just a Democratic trait. It is odd to me how this is all turning out, it was at the beginning a forgone conclusion that the next President would be a Democrat. After eight years of Bush how could it be otherwise, but as we draw closer to November there seem a chance as slight as it may or not be. That it is no longer a forgone conclusion. At one point they could have put up a wino and sat back and gotten the White House with out saying a word. I can see where it would be in the best interest of both the nation and the Democratic party to put the best candidate foreword since it was a shoe-in. But in that process it may end up costing the shoe-in.
I am interested since whom ever is in the White house will be my President too!
J R,
Check the news,
‘Superdelegate Leahy calls on Clinton to end campaign’
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/28/MNL1VSC2H.DTL&type=politics
Also, Casey in PA endorsed Obama, and is campaigning with him.
Leahy and Casey and you are free to support who you like cosmos.
And I am free to continue to distrust Senator Obama.
I should say that we know more about this race by who HASN’T weighed in with a favorite. I suspect folks like Al Gore would rather know more about Senator Obama. Being as we seem to know so little?
JR last night on MSNBC they were talking about Mc Cain’s ad and the voice over. It is done by Powers Booth, the actor who portrayed a character on “24” whom was trying to oust a Black President. Rachel Mahout found it humorous if not oddly uncanny.
#
J R
Posted March 29, 2008 at 9:30 am | Permalink
Well the cons are sure interested in this.
They do NOT however get to lie.
Senator Harry Reid, the Senate Majority leader has NOT endorsed a candidate.
Nice try James.
———————————
Except when it’s not a lie.
(chortles)
J R,
Since you want to learn more about Obama, what do you think about his speech on the economy? Same link I gave you Thur,
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/27/112357/993/773/485355
I just love it. Does it get any better. JR you are absolutely right. We don’t know nearly enough about Obama and his programs should he become prez. I see a large tax increase and the addition of many social programs which will make more of our populous dependent on ‘Big Daddy Gov’. I see an economic plan which will bail out the irresponsible who make bad choices and are driven by greed and once again punishing the hard workers who had the forsight to save money for the tough times and live within their means.
Pmom keep backing Hillary. She lied one too many times and fell out of favor with the media who previously thought she could do no wrong. As for her policies see above. She and Obama are so alike it is a little scary.
Continue to think that voters in the good ole USofA are too stupid to look behind the veneer and see the real picture. Continue to think they are bigoted racists. I have faith that the voters will make the right decision when the polls open and in the meantime we will set back and enjoy the drama.
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.
Will Rogers
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/w/willrogers122697.html
ksgrm,
Have you read Obama’s speech on the economy?
Excerpts here, and link to full speech.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/27/112357/993/773/485355
3-day rolling average Gallup poll,
Clinton: 42% . . . Obabma 50%
MoE +/- 3.
http://www.pollingreport.com/
In potential November general election match-ups, Gallup says, Republican Sen. John McCain leads Clinton 48%-44% (vs. 47%-44% yesterday) and leads Obama 46%-44% (vs. 45%-44% yesterday).
http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/03/gallup-obama-ah.html
P.S. Margin of error +/- 3%, so pretty much a dead heat in both instances.
“Continue to think that voters in the good ole USofA are too stupid to look behind the veneer and see the real picture.”
It worked for George WMD Bush!
“I see a large tax increase”
Quite right, so YOU should. YOU ksgrm and yours.
bush’s handouts to the “haves” and “have mores” WHILE he launched a war that THEY wanted was irresponsible and seriously needs correction.
“addition of many social programs”
Boy that WOULD be just awful wouldn’t it ksgrm? How DARE we even THINK about taking care of our own people! That money is supposed to go towards being the worlds policeman aint it?
Do you know how I know the cons know they are finished out there. No matter WHO the Democratic nominee is?
They can’t shut up about it. It’s that old “find the pony in the horsesh*& mentality of theirs. They are singing while the house is burning down around them.
Add another 10 percent to that Poll Rage, when moderate Hill-Billy supporters leap across the line and vote for McCain. :D
What’s really fascinating is that the same people who are positively phobic about high taxes have consistently supported leaders who spend like drunken sailors–and then run out on the check, like the irresponsible leeches that they are.
A “strategy” for governance that guarantees high taxes, sooner of later. Just don’t keep your eye of the ball, I guess.
Yes. let’s not concern ourselves with mere trillions going into the toilet for the military-industrial complex, or government accounting practices that conveniently budget for almost none of it (or even better, hide huge portions inside the secret “black budget”).
Keeping desperately poor people alive for a little while is the real problem, and the source of all our economic problems. Damn those freeloaders!
As I have been somewhat under-informed about Mrs. Clinton’s latest stumbles, my mother filled me in earlier this week. First she mis-spoke about her purported bravery in avoiding the line of fire, or something like that, in a foreign land not our own.
Then she claimed that Chelsea was in NYC during 9/11. Her daughter disproved those comments.
Are these heinous errors? Probably not. Are they serious stumbles? Yes, they are – in the tinderbox that is the 2008 political arena.
My, my – a lot has changed since 2004: Back then, I was so anxious (and eager) to oust Georgie that I didn’t notice that Kerry probably wasn’t the best choice for a Dem frontrunner. Back then, I wasn’t goin’ through the change (isn’t it ironic that the first three letters of this wretched condition denote the gender that greet each other with “How’s it hangin’?”)
Yes, a lot has changed since ‘04. I’m not sure yet – I’m not sure if I favor Hillary or Barack. But I just bought a recent issue of “Rolling Stone” with Obama on the cover – and I’m gonna read the article. I just hope the writer’s leave the cruel insults out of it.
I mean, if someone said to me, “Did you know your stomach could form its own website, have its own articles of incorporation, and enters a room before you do?” I’d pray for the earth to swallow me whole! Ever bit!!!!!
Unfortunately, too many voters in the “good ole USofA are too stupid”.
They will prefer the cartoon statements from McCain, over the intelligent remarks from someone like Obama.
They probably wont even understand Obama.
Obama’s March 27 speech on the economy.
‘Barack Obama at Cooper Union’ (31:10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSuT5zN2SPI
I haven’t had a chance to see Obama’s economy speech yet. Thanks for the info, cosmos.
Wouldn’t it be nice if we could actually argue about the issues ? :)
Rage you will never read in my posts that I support not helping those who genuinely need help. You will always hear me say that someone who refuses to work for ‘the man’ so he/she can take care of his/her own shouldn’t get an extra dime.
I am very disappointed in GWB and his unfettered spending. This doesn’t mean that I will put a Hillary who had ‘thousands of ideas’ we haven’t heard yet on spending programs or an Obama with a simplictic view of how the economy works into office. McCain as weak as he is has shown by his voting that he will not sign bills loaded up with earmarks.
It’s pathetic that’s that as good as it gets. The truly needy should get help. Those able to work should do so. Help them get marketable skills or whatever it takes to help them enter the workforce but don’t keep giving them a handout.
Cosmos I heard his economic speech when he first gave it. He sounds very good. Personally I like him. Professionally I think he lets his emotions shape his policies. Not a bad thing in real life but a bad thing if you are making policy for a nation.
The primary season isn’t over. Here is the schedule that will complete the primaries:
APRIL 2008
* April 22: Pennsylvania
MAY 2008
* May 6: Indiana, North Carolina
* May 13: Nebraska (primary), West Virginia
* May 20: Kentucky, Oregon
* May 27: Idaho (R)
JUNE 2008
* June 3: Montana, New Mexico (R), South Dakota
AUGUST 2008
* August 25-28: Democratic National Convention in Denver, Colorado
SEPTEMBER 2008
* September 1-4: Republican National Convention in Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota
When the process is complete both parties will have a candidate. Each state (especially those who followed the rules they agreed to) should have input.
One party choosing their candidate earlier than the other doesn’t make that candidate superior, only decided earlier.
Relax, enjoy. There will be a candidate from both major parties and another couple from less popular parties and we will have an election.
And best yet! 296 days, 10 hours, 30 minutes !!!
Songbird i like to read your comments. They can be very thought provoking. Keep it up.
This doesn’t mean that I will put a Hillary who had ‘thousands of ideas’ we haven’t heard yet on spending programs or an Obama with a simplictic view of how the economy works into office.
So does that mean you’ve seen Obama’s economy speech?
Tell me about it.
Oh, never mind–you did.
Tell me about it.
Linda I will be counting the minutes. I am starting to feel like my grandson in Iowa. He was so glad when the Iowa primaries were held. 24/7 politics were stressing him out. We checked into a Holiday Inn the day after Bill and Hill left Cedar Falls and the entire staff said they felt like they were on vacation after the stress of having such important guests.
“I see an economic plan which will bail out the irresponsible who make bad choices and are driven by greed and once again punishing the hard workers who had the forsight to save money for the tough times and live within their means.”
KsGrm — Is that a reference the recent bailout of the VERY Republican Bear/Sterns people??? Urged on by the VERY Republican Fed. Reserve??
Just wondered!!
Rage I am typing with a broken right hand. Cast to elbow. After 4/14 I will be able to type long discourses. Looking forward to it.
For now while I admire his vision to help everyone and his desire to bring both sides of the aisle together I have doubts about the gov ability to be all things to all people.
“Help them get marketable skills or whatever it takes to help them enter the workforce but don’t keep giving them a handout.”
KsGrm — I guess you know that this was the premise behind Clinton’s Welfare reform package… Whatever happened to Bill’s plan?? It worked good for a while…
Chas you are right about that. I am bipartisian on that issue. See answer to Rage.
It never worked because it was never implemented in a long lasting way. KanWork was good program while in place. As a nation we drop the ball a lot.
Rage I am typing with a broken right hand. Cast to elbow. After 4/14 I will be able to type long discourses. Looking forward to it.
Okie-dokie. I read something about your hand being hurt, but I didn’t realize it was actually broken. Don’t tire out your other hand! :)
Broken surgically to repair bone damage. Long story.
Bush may expand help for struggling homeowners
http://tinyurl.com/2ktquk
Looks like ecveryone is trying to get in on some of that, ““I see an economic plan which will bail out the irresponsible who make bad choices and are driven by greed and once again punishing the hard workers who had the forsight to save money for the tough times and live within their means.”
OUCH!
Yea – I seem to recall Kan-work as having been a good start that didn’t get followed up on.
Now WHY didnt the news media — QALL of them — play Obama’s Economy Speech — instead of frittering away about what Rev. Wright said, or didnt say?? JR — I hope you really listened GOOD to what Obama said in that economy speech…. That is something that should be taught in every high school current events, and civics, and economics class in the country!! It is historically accurate, and prophetically significant!! And it WILL take both sides of the aisle to make it work!! Just like Clinton’s Welfare REform program!!
pmom
Democrats cross over to vote for Republicans ALL the time, in Republican primaries.
I bet if the cons were honest…
They WISH they had the same situation as the Democrats.
They are stuck with John McCain. I bet they’d give a lot to have a Romney or Thompson still in the race and winning votes.
Heh, they must cringe everytime old John speaks just PRAYING he doesn’t say something stupid. That’s the price you pay when your core philosophy is being on the conservative side of choice.
It only takes a second to decide to take part and vote. It only takes a few minutes and a minimum of effort to do so. Most people don’t even have to leave their house to vote anymore.
But we should never rush to decide WHO we have to choose from.
Just a few thoughts…
If it’s true the MSM is choosing our candidates, maybe we should take a look at who the MSM is. How much of the media does Rupert Murdoch own? How many people out there are reading and hearing indy media?
Powers Booth also played Rev. Jim Jones. :)
Polls: It’s difficult to judge much of anything via polls these days. I remember watching them closely throughout the ‘04 election, where they would swing one way one week, and then swing the other way the next. There are too many variables to consider them consistent. 1)How is the question phrased? 2)What area of the country is being polled? 3)How are these people being contacted? By phone?
And #3 really bothers me the most. If polling is done via phone numbers, just where are these numbers coming from? Phone books? If so, there are a lot of people who will never be polled, the largest of them the people who use cell phones exclusively, aka the younger set. My adult-of-voting-age offspring and their spouses have only cells. Then there are those who do not have published numbers. I fall io both groups with a cell and an unpublished number. I don’t get telemarketing calls, I don’t get political ad calls. And I sure don’t get polling calls. My email address is more public than my phone numbers are!
They arent telling us that, RD!!
Oh hey, Obama is pushing for tuition assistance for NON traditional learning… what Univ. of Wisconsin Adult Ed. Dept. calls “Learning at the Back Door”
The MSM (or whomever) is playing it smart. Take a step back and pay attention to what is going on. “Someone” has managed a huge rift in the Dem party, and it isn’t necessarily Hillary or Barack who’s orchestrating it. Now that we have the two of them focusing on fighting every little nuance of every word spoken by them or by those who are connected to them, McCain suddenly changes his rhetoric. I suspect we’ll watch him flip back and forth at least until the end of the primaries.
Hillary & Barack are being pulled off their game, and it’s happening for a reason, as it always does. First it’s the Rev. Wright issue for Obabma, then it’s the Bosnia issue for Clinton. The real issues are buried under all of this useless garbage.
It’s a known fact that Republicans do not campaign on their strengths, but on the weaknesses of their opponent. And those weaknesses have nothing to do with politics or the day-to-day running of this country. They have to do with personal issues. For a more recent examination of this, recall how they nitpicked the last two Dem presidential nominees over nothing but personal crap (much insinuated but no proof), and rarely step up to say, “When President, this is what I will do or try to do.”
Why? Because that’s what the Republican party does best, and they sure don’t want to run on the issues, because if they did, they wouldn’t get the votes needed to be elected.
Shades of 2004 aka Deju vu, all over again. Only this time we have 2 strong Dems, who won’t quit.
Hillary will be in Erie PA on Tuesday.
I will have a friend of mine get an autographed picture of her, maybe.
And then I will auction it off on this Blog, we could call it the “WeBaY” auction.
Then, I will contribute the money to McCain.
Well, darn, should have kept my mouth shut, I could have found a way to get JR to contribute to McCain!
(I could even have Hillary sign, “to my friend JR” lol.)
Obama is the right man at the right time in history.
He’s smart, loyal to America, and above all else, not sold-out.
Right on track RD!! Look at Limbaugh’s Operation CHAOS — classic example of mis & disinformation!! The Dems need to knock that kind of garbage out of the park!! And SOON!!
Hillary almost needs to BUY the convention at this point, to even have a chance to win the nomination!! How would she do that?? They got Pat Leahy now calling for her to step down, and get the show on the road!!
How many Dem leaders will have to stand up, to ask her to stan down??
The Green Gornet will save the Democrat’s proverbial asses.
Chas
The executives and the stockholders of Bear Stearns suffered a huge personal loss.
They were not “bailed out” — instead, a very vital part of the economy was preserved.
If Bear Streans had failed, for instance, every city and state in the nation would feel the pinch.
Municipal bonds and municipal financing are, largely, a function of large Wall Street firms.
Much of the capital spending, by local governments, would have come to a halt.
Allowing Bear Streans to be sold to another firm DID help the “little guy” while punishing those who helped cause the problems.
I actually think that Bear Streans employees and stock holders were “punished” a bit to harshly, but, unfortunately, that is how the markets work sometimes.
Most of the Bear Stearns problem was psychological and not, directly, financial. The fear was so great, nobody trusted the firm, which caused a “run”.
Which is why we need to refocus on lessons we’ve learned once. Ignore! Ignore those who want chaos where none exists, ignore those who want you to think something irrational, ignore the taunts and accusations. Ever once in awhile smile — a really big smile because you’ve got “them” all in a tither while our process moves forward.
I guarantee that those who want you to believe something different than the truth WILL NOT VOTE FOR A DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE! There is no reason to try to help them see anything differently. Don’t waste energy on futility.
The Democratic Party is carrying on a process and is exactly on schedule. It is a process that will decide the Party nominee. There are two strong, electable, qualified candidates asking for the job. Listen to them, not to what someone wants you to think they said or mean or…
Good point econ. When a stock falls from a high of $170 a share to $2 a share many ‘big wigs’ took a bath.
When corps are hailed as the enemy many employees and retirees need to take a close look at where there 401k and IRA money is invested.
This isn’t a black and white or dem v repub issue. All of us need to be educated on what each candidate intends to do.
That Ed, the biggest anti-semite on this Blog, wants Obama, does say quite a bit!
Yep, we have $29 billion to bail out Bear Stearns for the “good of the country” but we “can’t afford” $7 billion a year to expand SCHIP.
Anyone surprised?
The corporate-owned, conglomerate MSM is mostly dysfuntional — all the false attacks on Gore during the 2000 campaign, etc.
http://www.dailyhowler.com/ has many examples in the archives.
How about this >>>>
Obama President — Biden V. Pres.
Richardson Secy. State
John Edwards Atty. Gen.
Dennis Kucinich Secy. Interior
Gen. Wesley Clark Secy. Defense
Bill Clinton Ambassador to U. N.
Sen. Chuck Hagel Secy. Agriculture
Hillary Clinton Senate Majority Leader
Robert Reich Secy. of Labor
Gov. of Ohio Secy. HHH
Dr. Howard Dean Surgeon General
Colin Powell Chmn. Joint Chiefs of Staff
Could be a decent Cabinet???
Linda if I could believe that Obama could accomplish even 75% of what he proposes without damaging the corp world that gives us job growth he would have my vote in a heartbeat.
As for ‘Operation Chasos’ – just laugh about it – Rush is an entertainer much like Bill Maher only on the other side of the political spectrum.
WS
At what point do we have “enough” social programs?
When will you ever think that the government has done “enough”?
Why didn’t President Clinton expand SCHIP? Hillary says that SHE supported such expansion, of this REPUBLICAN program, but the truth is:
Bill Clinton opposed the expansion of SCHIP, in his day!
ksgrm,
Not all corps are “hailed as the enemy”. But ones like Enron and Bear/Sterns do deserve that label.
Makes me wonder a bit how many of the Bear/Stearns “big wigs” sold out their shares before the bottom fell out?? Hmmm????
And WS
The Bear Stearns “money” was a LOAN, and the U.S. Government will get every penny of that money BACK!
Not true for your handouts.
Chas cancel that Obama vote I just committed to. Just looking at your list gave me indigestion. Just like you to kill a good thing.
WS did you ever consider that it wasn’t the dollars to expand SCHIPS that was wrong it was expanding it to cover illegals, parents and single adults through the age of 28 that killed the bill.
This is a major dif between libs and cons.
Chas that (BS) is a public record – look it up.
Enron was a “green” firm, involved in NATURAL GAS!
An Enron exec actually came up with Al Gore’s “Carbon Credit” scam.
Enron gave lots of money to Democrats.
“At what point do we have “enough” social programs?”
Forty three governors and the majorities of both the House and Senate supported expanding SCHIP at a cost of $7 billion per year for a total of $35 billion over five years.
Bush vetoed the bill.
But somehow, corporate welfare in the form of a $29 billion bailout for Bear Stearns is just hunky-dory.
The priorities of the Bush Administration are clear – big business.
The American people, not so much.
Especially if they are poor or working poor.
Chas, some of the execs did not get out until just recently.
By the way “Trading on inside information” IS a CRIME, which means that I sincerely doubt that much of that went on.
Execs can not trade, on what they know, until the market knows everything that they know.
What BS KsGrm??
I KNOW its illegal, Econ…. Doesnt make me not wonder if it might have happened!! Geez!!
The Chairman of Bear Stearns held on to the bulk of his stock until this week:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080328/bs_nm/bearstearns_shares_dc_1
Again, it seems to me that, as painful as this is to watch, it was done the right way.
Chas this is what happened to the CEO.
“For James E. Cayne, the firm’s chairman and former chief executive, holding on to his Bear stock was a point of pride, and he rarely, if ever, sold. A billionaire just over a year ago when Bear’s stock soared past $160, his 5.8 million shares are now worth about $28 million at Monday’s closing price of $4.81.
Mr. Schwartz has 1.02 million shares, according to Bloomberg News.”
econ(flunked),
Enron took advantage of deregulation to unfairly manipulate prices.
And, IIRC, Clinton didnt back SCHIP, because he felt that he had a better idea… I think that used to be called DEBATE on issues… Somethng we seem to have lost somewhere!!
BS = Bear Stearns (I think)
give ksgrm a break, abreviating with that hand!
Duh! Bear Stearns
Who is Mr. Schwartz??
Chas you are wrong on that one.
Bill Clinton opposed an expansion of the Republican SCHIP idea because Clinton thought such expansion was too expensive.
BTW KsGrm — What do you find so “wrong” with that list of possible Cabinet members I posted upthread???
OK like I said, Econ, he had a different idea!! Geez!!
“Bill Clinton opposed an expansion of the Republican SCHIP idea”
Bill Clinton – best Republican president ever.
Chas
Bill Clinton’s “better idea” was to avoid SPENDING THE MONEY at all —
That is also my “better idea” on this issue.
“Enron gave lots of money to Democrats.”
Bullshit.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/enron.asp
“The executives and the stockholders of Bear Stearns suffered a huge personal loss.”
Paul – from what I have been reading on the investment sites the shareholders took a bath but the execs made millions. This has happened throughout the financial arena – Merrill, Countrywide, Bear, Citi etc etc etc.
#
Door King
Posted March 29, 2008 at 9:08 am | Permalink
Republicans work as a team.
To screw everyone, nano.
__________________________________________
I agree. But they do a very good job, don’t you think? Meanwhile some really stupid Democrats are saying they won’t support their party if their candidate doesn’t get the nomination. It’s sad. Democrats have the issues, but they’re by and large too stupid to win. They couldn’t work together if their lives depended on it. But a lot of Democrats are really going to feel sheepish when they wake up the day after the election and realize there’s a new Republican president.
Democrats aren’t a party; they’re a mob.
WS Clark,
Enron did give money to the Democrats. Just not as much as the Republicans.
That is all your link basically said.
Depnding on what you think “lots” means you didn’t prove anything.
Chas CEO of Bear Stearns.
“Depnding on what you think “lots” means you didn’t prove anything.”
Price, if Bush got caught eating live kittens, he would claim that the kittens were terrorists and you would believe him.
Sigh……………………..
WS Clark,
Don’t get all upset because you got caught not being able to read again.
Ben an interesting aside. Alan Greenspan, a director on the board of BS, while telling the world of the strength of BS, on 12/21/07 sold over $21M of stock.
Cant type much but read lots. Interesting!
“Don’t get all upset because you got caught not being able to read again.”
Phuck you, Price, and the horse you rode in on.
Enron Pursued Plan To Forge Close Ties To Gore Campaign
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9800E7DA1E3FF93BA25751C0A9649C8B63
“Former Enron officials said an important part of their strategy to win favor with the Gore campaign was a significant increase in the company’s donations to Democrats. Enron documents outlined this approach; they show that in 1999 and 2000 the company gave $426,500 in so-called soft-money donations to Republicans and $362,000 to Democrats. That amounts to 54 percent to Republicans and 46 percent to Democrats. In 1997 and 1998, Enron’s donations had tilted much more to Republicans — 67 percent, with Democrats getting only 33 percent.”
WS Clark,
If you can’t handle being wrong, perhaps you shouldn’t be in a political discussion?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15837285?q=bsc
Link for Greenspan info.
ksgrm – Enron execs were doing the same thing – while holding their rank-and-file employees’ 401k’s in Enron stock.
“If you can’t handle being wrong, perhaps you shouldn’t be in a political discussion?”
Maybe you should just stop trolling and stalking me, Price.
Get a life. Find a woman. Go shoot something.
Not the woman.
May the Schwartz be with you
- SpaceBalls
Ben I guess my point was that the CEO was holding but Greenspan while only a director who has a much louder voice worldwide was selling while telling the world and BS emps to hold tight.
I have to admit, I am looking forward to the Democrat nomination!
This is fun watching them fight all the way there.
The only thing which would be even more tragic would be for Hilary to win the nomination now.
I think the media plays this up just a little too much. It’s called campaigning. Repubs. were biting at one another until there was one. Now it’s looking like Romney may be on the doomed ticket with McCain.
I suspect the CEO also had other constraints – insider trading etc – but gets compensated for that with his salary and bonuses.
I don’t think I have ever seen a CEO suffer the way the owners and employees suffer when they destroy a company.
BTW – ‘granny’ – are the little ones taking good care of you and your ‘owee’?
Ben could be true but I was commenting on Greenspans duplicity when he has been hailed by many as eligible for sainthood after his long tenure with the fed.
They are doing a very good job and I have sweet messages all over my bright purple cast.
Nathan, much of the Right Wing, including almost all of the Talk Radio talkmeisters want Hillary to WIN the nomination…. Thats what Lilmbaugh’s Operation CHAOS is all about… Dont you want on their gravy train??
Must be a time for ‘broken wings’ – first Hank, then ksgrm.
May God bless and heal you both.
We can’t be having ‘broken wings’ on the blog for long now. :)
They can be cute ksgrm – especially when they are still little.
I agree with you about Greenspan – I don’t see him as a saint. In fact – I wonder if part of what we are suffering from is a hangover from too much loose monetary policy exacerbated by extremely loose fiscal policy of the administration/congress.
Geez, PA has lost over 20% of its manufacturing jobs in the past 7 years!! Strike up another achievement for BushCo!!
Nathan,
Thank you for showing that Enron was trying to buy influence in both parties.
That’s why Washington needs to get the corporate influence out of their regulation and other policies.
Obama’s speech on the economy,
‘Barack Obama at Cooper Union’ (31:10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSuT5zN2SPI
And do the delegate math — if Clinton does not win big in PA, she’s basically out.
She’s like a bowler that’s losing near the end of a game, and who has to make strikes in all of the last frames.
Yes Ben if I had enjoyed my kids as much as I do my grandkids I probably would have had a dozen. Thank goodness that didn’t happen.
Thanks Reg I am counting the days.
I guess KsGrm cant post what she thought was so “wrong” with my possible “Cabinet” list for an Obama Presidency upthread LOL Maybe she just forgot….
granny – I think when we get a bit older we appreciate them more. I’m with you – I have enjoyed the ‘next generation’ a lot more. Maybe I finally grew up! ;)
Chas,
Operation Chaos is not about Hilary winning.
It is about Hilary dragging out the nomination and dragging down the party with her.
Chas interesting comment about PA. What was the reason these jobs were lost? What prez policy was responsible? What can Hillary or Obama bring to the office that will get these jobs back?
Just some food for thought – waiting for you solutions.
KsGrm — I think it is basically a case of terrible fiscal management plus corporate outsourcing more than any one Pres. policy… IMHO, just a conglomeration of bad fiscal responsibility by the Administration… And remember, the Repubs had control of Congress until Jan. 2007 as well…
And just maybe we gave up on that growing up and decided enjoying the youngsters was more important. OK, I won’t talk for anyone but me when I admit I’m going backwards on the growing up. It’s getting to where normal adults worry me. I steer clear. My problem is all my grandkids are growing up and hanging out at the local school yard causes some to be suspicious.
Nathan, that is not what Limbaugh was saying this week… He said that the McCain group can beat Hillary… he isnt so sure about beating Obama…
I don’t hang out at the local school yard — before anyone takes that for more than it was intended. Even to a kid like me that one sounded WRONG!
The real reason Pennsylvania is losing jobs.
China Cheats, Pennsylvania Workers Lose
15,640 Pennsylvania jobs lost per year as a result of China’s illegal trade practices
WASHINGTON, DC, March 25, 2008—A new analysis by the Alliance for American Manufacturing (AAM) found that the U.S. trade deficit with China has taken a surprising toll on Pennsylvania workers. Annual job losses in Pennsylvania due to trade with China average three times higher than losses discussed by some of the presidential candidates and attributed to NAFTA.
http://www.americanmanufacturing.org/newscenter/pressreleases/2008/03/25/china-trade-adds-to-pennsylvania-job-losses/
KsGrm… It is the voters in PA who seem to be blaming their poor economy on the Bush Administration… At least thats what I picked from the CNN commentator…
Some days I think how it might be good if McCain wins. A Republican — especially one who backs bushco — accepting the responsibilities for the mess. Some days… Then I realize America’s future is at stake and see the folly of more of the same.
Regular… the China assessment was what I heard yesterday about PA jobs… from MSNBC… CNN was covering a Q & A with Obama, and voters, at a Town Hall meeting, on CNN today…
Seems that Bush might have at least considered making some changes in most favored nation status re: China during the past 7 years… But, he didnt!!
I havent heard anything on the PA jobs crisis that even suggested NAFTA was at fault for job losses… Not sure where that one is coming from… Maybe FOX?? LOL
Osama gave a speech at a PA facilty where the Spanish company Gamesa makes wind turbines.
‘Obama Backs Green Energy in Pennsylvania’
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gJUy2QNCPnj1yjLw1mdqbzBfbITQD8VBDT4G1
Hey people, politics in America has never and will never be polite, well-mannered, clean and boring. And unless Diebold Corp. has told you something it hasn’t told the rest of us, it’s way too early to be calling the November election!
Linda sadly I understood you completely. Found a new love for Candyland and
chutes and Ladders. Forget Scrabble I am a fan of Upwords with no words over 4 letters. What we do for those kids. My prob is that the frequent trips to DQ for blizzards are starting to tell on me.
Hey, get out your blender… get some ice cream, and candy bars… make those Blizzards at home!! Cheaper… AND you can use low fat ice cream too!! ROFL!! Thats what I do when all the grandkids show up at once!!
Great idea Chas.
Well, I guess we can forget about the possible Obama Cabinet… Oh well….
Gotta go for now…. Back later!!
Republicans will NEVER accept responsibility for the Bush mess, because they do NOT consider it to be a mess.
The only fault that McCain can find with Bush (link posted yesterday) is that there was not enough INTENSITY.
McCain considers the Bush economic plan to be just hunky-dory. In fact, he wants to INCREASE the Bush tax cuts.
McCain considers the Bush foreign policy plan to be just hunky-dory. In fact, he wants to have more wars and to extend our presence in Iraq for another 100 years.
McCain considers the Bush torture and detention plan to be just hunky-dory. In fact, he supports them despite the fact that he used to be against them.
The list goes on………………..
Everything is just hunky-dory, if only we had more INTENSITY.
Chas,
I am not to sure where you are getting your information from.
Everything I have heard on Operation Chaos, is all about dragging the nomination out to the bitter end.
“So neither of them — neither of them — can get there in the primary process, neither of them can. (McCain impression) “This, my friends, is the goal! Limbaugh is doing my job for me. That’s what nobody understands. Way to go, Rush!” So they’re going to have to rely on superdelegates — and that’s going to be even more fun! (laughing) And then they might have to go back and redo Florida, might have to go back and redo Michigan, any number of things, ladies and gentlemen. So the chaos will continue.”
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_030508/content/01125108.guest.html
WS Clark,
McCain doesn’t want us to be in Iraq for another 100 years.
He said he was prepared to fight that long if needed.
McCain didn’t change his stance on torture either. He didn’t agree with the CIA being held to Army standards.
I suppose when you twist everything someone says, probably because you can’t read or comprehend what you read, that is why you constantly keep coming up with the wrong conclusions.
And if we needed proof, wsc? Presto — there it was! As long as we smile and ignore, we’ll be just fine with the process that is going as intended and is right on schedule. Like someone with a brain would listen to rush.
Linda,
You might not agree with Rush or like him. He does have over 20 million listeners though.
To say that none of them have a brain only shows how absolutely partisan you really are.
Well Nathan, yesterday and thursday, rudsh was on the phone with TX repubs who crossed over, and who also got selected to be delegates to the state convention…
and Rush was elated… YES he said… Thats what we need… covert operatives, to make sure Hillary gets the nmination… and if you can, he told them, get selected to go to denver asd well, and make sure hillary wins the nomination in denver!!!
“I suppose when you twist everything someone says, probably because you can’t read or comprehend what you read, that is why you constantly keep coming up with the wrong conclusions.”
As usual, Price, idiotic and personal attacks, stalking and trolling. Your Daddy must be proud of you.
McCain said “make it 100 years.”
McCain said that torture does not produce results, yet he voted to allow torture.
Perhaps you should spend less time worshiping at the alter of Limbaugh (who doesn’t attend church by the way) and a little more time READING what actually has been said.
McCain said, “many more wars, but we are going to win them all.”
Really, John, HOW do you plan on paying for them?
John S. McCain – delusional old man.
But he won’t be around when the bill comes due.
Chas,
Ultimatley, you are right. Rush does talk about how Hilary will unify our party against her.
Most of Operation Chaos is to do just that… cause chaos.
It is safe to say that Hilary will not win the nomination, but the fact that we are helping drag it out is what is making it Chaos.
WS Clark,
Why don’t you give the full quotes instead of the little snips you are obviously taking out of context?
McCain never voted to allow torture either.
And I am not trying to make personal insults towards you.
I seriously think you have a reading comprehension problem.
You seem to always take things out of context and come up with things people never said.
WS Clark,
Also, you are posting on a public blog. I am posting on a public blog.
I am hardly stalking you.
“Clinton hurting Obama over a 5 percent chance”
Is this is bad how?
Pass the popcorn, folks, the what you’ve seen so far is just the coming attractions.
The convention promises to be the show. Enjoy!
Exactly GMC70, pass the popcorn!
I actually have a popcorn machine my parents gave me for Christmas and I have about 7 different flavors of butter to add to my popcorn.
I am eating popcorn in style!
Reading comments after comments, too many are not giving Obama enough credit based on the fact that as new as he is in the political system that he represents more then a strong opposition to the two parties’ old grand standers.
Obama is not the real power behind his campaign; it is his organization of supporters that the old grand standers are up against.
I agree Wiseman…
Operation Chaos, is that a new buzzword for the Iraqi occupation?
“I seriously think you have a reading comprehension problem.”
I think you are an idiot, Price.
But, for the record, in High School, my reading speed AND comprehension ranked in the top 1%.
Nothing has changed since.
So piss off, Price.
Claps with one hand for WSClark’s reading comprehension skill.
(chortles)
WS Clark,
Show me where McCain voted to allow torture.
Show me where McCain said he “wants to” extend our presence in Iraq for 100 years.
You can’t show me either.
McCain never did either.
You are either a liar or an ignorant fool. Then you sit there wondering why I say you have a reading comprehension problem???
Shhh, Wiseman. They’re having a party and they don’t have much to be happy about in the world of politics so don’t share the good news with them. They won’t hear it or read it where they go looking for “news.” Maybe it will be a surprise! lol
Oh, and in case I’ve left doubt about the brain of rush and his listeners — it doesn’t matter what number of millions there are, I am very happy that my brain works differently than theirs. I still consider the way theirs works as proof they don’t have one among them worth mentioning. But to be fair I suppose it is more true that yes, they have one, it is however, malfunctioning.
Regular, I could be wrong, but I dont think you are ZEN enough to hear the sound of one hand clapping :-D
You cab twist it all you want, Price, McCain voted AGAINST the bill banning waterboarding, which was/is considered torture.
A vote against the ban is a vote FOR torture.
“Show me where McCain said he “wants to” extend our presence in Iraq for 100 years.”
Not only did McCain say “make it a hundred” he also said that we would have “many more wars.”
Now you can pull your usual bullshit and claim that McCain did not ACTUALLY say those things, but ANY reasonable person would conclude from his statements exactly what I did.
Of course, you are not a reasonable person – you are a far right wing Republican.
“Claps with one hand for WSClark’s reading comprehension skill.”
He can only clap with one hand because the other hand is, ah, er, BUSY.
Hence the chortling.
Clean your keyboard, McCreepy.
This comedian has ‘one hand clapping’ figured out. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5grIESGObM8&feature=related
Very true wiseman and linda. I still remember the spirit at the caucus several weeks ago – Clinton and Obama supporters together with one uniting goal – dump the republics and their disasterous policies. “Me joing you or you joining me, it doesn’t matter. We have some serious butt to kick come November.”
I think after the dust settles that is what we will be seeing. heck, I’ll even unite with KU fans … AFTER April 7!
Ben, Is UCLA one of your alma maters? And, if I’ve asked before, please put it down to a lack of memory not lack of interest. I do remember you said MIT is an alma mater, just can’t remember where else. Or, if this is too personal, then ignore and I’ll totally understand.
In the Republican world (i.e., Nathan’s) Bush did NOT admit to using cocaine despite the fact that his statement was (condensed) that “no, he had not used cocaine in the previous seven years and no, he won’t answer any questions regarding his drug use earlier than that.”
Now, if I said that I had not killed anyone in the last seven years and no, I won’t answer any questions about the years prior to that, you would conclude what?
That I am a murderer or that I am not?
“Ben, Is UCLA one of your alma maters?”
Ben is a UCLA alum, but he will be crying in his powder blue towel after Xavier get through with them tonight. There is just not enough Love for UCLA.
(Sorry, Ben, I will be rooting for UCLA to get to the Final Four, but I do think that Xavier is gonna pull off the upset…………………)
Best wishes to ya’ anyway!
linda – yes, after the ‘Tute I went to UCLA. I went to the Final Four in San Diego in John Wooden’s last year as coach.
WS Clark,
McCain didn’t agree with regulating the CIA with Army procedures. That was his vote.
You are either a liar or a complete idiot because you can’t grasp that fact.
McCain said make it 100 years IF:
“That would be fine with me, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed.”
McCain was comparing Iraq to Korea and Europe where we still have a presence.
WS Clark,
What someone like you thinks and what is proven are two completely different things.
Kittens, Price, kittens.
You will grasp at any straw, however weak, to support your hateful and disgusting partisan position.
Kittens.
WS Clark,
I support my opinions with facts, not straws.
I see you didn’t post any facts in your post.
So, Ben, can UCLA pull it out? As much as I would hate to see it happen, I see the X Factor playing out tonight.
I also see UNC having a helluva time with Louisville.
I see Memphis as damned near unbeatable and Kansas running on Davidson.
I am a bit of a transplanted homer on this one, but I see KU pulling off the National Championship.
How’s your bracket looking?
Clark, do you see TX Vs. KU in the final??
“I see you didn’t post any facts in your post.”
Only because you didn’t want to SEE any facts, Price.
Go back to the Bush + Cocaine scenario and tell me how any REASONABLE person would not/could not conclude that Bush used cocaine.
Easy right?
Don’t twist yourself into a pretzel trying to come up with some convoluted logic.
WS Clark,
I am still talking about your lies about McCain here.
If you want me to show you how illogical you are with your Bush comments I can do that too.
“Clark, do you see TX Vs. KU in the final??”
Nope. I see KU v. Memphis in a two overtime thriller in San Antone.
Kansas wins – karma comes around.
Wow, Clark, you must have bought a CASE for Monday nite!! LOL I just got a couple of quarts… If its KU / Memphis, I gotta go back to the store!! ROFL
“If you want me to show you how illogical you are with your Bush comments I can do that too”
Show me.
I didn’t use coke in the last seven years, but I won’t tell you if I did before that.”
Yeah, show me.
CUBS WIN!! CUBS WIN!! HOL-Y COW!!! SPRING TRAINING IS OVER!!
ksgrm
Posted March 29, 2008 at 1:42 pm | Permalink
Linda sadly I understood you completely. Found a new love for Candyland and
chutes and Ladders
For me, it is telly-tubbies and Vegie tales!
McCain was ‘agin’ torture like waterboarding, before he was ‘fer’ it.
(chortles)
Let’s look at this scenario……………….
Wilma goes to Fred and asks “Fred, have you ever been unfaithful to me?”
Fred says “No I haven’t.”
Wilma says “Well, Fred, not only have I heard that you have been unfaithful, but I heard that you were having sex with Betty Ruble.”
Fred says “I haven’t had sex with Betty in the last seven years.”
Wilma says “What about before that, Fred?”
Fred says “I won’t answer that question.”
Now, should Wilma file for divorce on the grounds of adultery or should she assume that Fred is a faithful husband?
As for ‘Operation Chasos’ – just laugh about it – Rush is an entertainer much like Bill Maher only on the other side of the political spectrum.
KSGRM, you missed one vital fact. Bill Maher says he’s an entertainer. A comedian, in fact. Rush has never said that, has he?
Actually, Rush Limbaugh says that he is the de facto head of the Republican Party.
Too bad for them.
Of course, the Republicans LIKE having drug abusers as the head of their party.
(Insert your own joke here.)
Memphis takes it all. That’s what Door King sees. They’re genetically engineered, or something. Did you see that one guy, must be 6-10 and 350.
Mandingo nurtured on McDonalds.
Clark, when the questions get too hard, they dont answer them…. Sorry bout that!! :roll:
RD, Rush does make the point he is nothing but an entertainer, but only when something he said backfires on him.
True WD, True!!
Besides labor, the main reasons jobs moved off-shore was to escape the need (and expense)to upgrade domestic production to meet enviornmental standards. The abuse to-wards China about the enviornment seems to have missed the true mark, American companies who have their goods made there, concealing/dumping their dirt overseas while making a bigger buck. China is now headed to comply with higher standards and wages due to internal pressures arising from 1 billion people who know they are being had which begs the question, where will those companies go next? Maybe Sudan, Darfur or some other desperately poor African country which makes me wonder if the ubercapitlalists are learning Swahili.
WSClark
Posted March 29, 2008 at 3:57 pm | Permalink
Let’s look at this scenario……………….
“Wilma goes to Fred and asks “Fred, have you ever been unfaithful to me?”
Fred says “No I haven’t.”
Wilma says “Well, Fred, not only have I heard that you have been unfaithful, but I heard that you were having sex with Betty Ruble.”
Fred says “I haven’t had sex with Betty in the last seven years.”
Wilma says “What about before that, Fred?”
Fred says “I won’t answer that question.”
Now, should Wilma file for divorce on the grounds of adultery or should she assume that Fred is a faithful husband?
===============================================
MY GOD CLARK, Surely you jest. Fred and Wilma have been married only six years. Everyone knows that. Did you tell your wife what you did before you married her?
WSClark,
You seem to be having trouble understanding Republican “logic”(sic).
Let me try to help.
Nathan posted March 29, 2008 at 2:03 pm
“McCain didn’t change his stance on torture either. He didn’t agree with the CIA being held to Army standards.”
Translation: It’s only “torture” if the military does it. If the CIA (or KGB, et al) does waterboarding, it’s not “torture”… it’s just swimming lessons.
And re a Republican saying that he has not done something illegal during the “last seven years”.
When Republicans hear that, they tranlate “last seven years” to “all the previous decades/entire lifetime”. The translation occurs instantly every time they hear (or read) it, and it’s irreversible.
No No No Pebbles is more than six, and they re married a long time before pebbles came along
I have Electile Dysfunction… I just can not become aroused over any of the choices for president put forth by either party in the 2008 election year.
McCain said make it 100 years IF:
“That would be fine with me, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed.”
Ok Nathan then lets leave now and go back when we won’t get shot at — like in Japan or South Korea — we never got shot at in Japan …….
Loser
Nathan
Posted March 29, 2008 at 1:14 pm | Permalink
“……….The only thing which would be even more tragic would be for Hilary to win the nomination now.”
no — more tragic would be you fathering children and continue your blind absurdity and stupidity
I guess Price can’t back up his “story” that Bush did not use cocaine.
Sucks to be him.
Actually, cosmos, McCain has set forth the reasons he opposed the mentioned legislation. I keep this handy just so I can post the truth when you knuckleheads say that McCain voted to allow torture. Or to equate interrogation with torture.
Sen. John McCain’s statement Feb. 13 opposing legislation restricting CIA interrogation techniques:
“It is also incontestable that waterboarding is outlawed by the Military Commissions Act, and it was the clear intent of Congress to prohibit the practice. The MCA enumerates grave breaches of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions that constitute offenses under the War Crimes Act. Among these is an explicit prohibition on acts that inflict “serious and non-transitory mental harm,” which the MCA states “need not be prolonged.” Staging a mock execution by inducing the misperception of drowning is a clear violation of this standard. Indeed, during the negotiations, we were personally assured by administration officials that this language, which applies to all agencies of the U.S. government, prohibited waterboarding.
It is unfortunate that the reluctance of officials to stand by this straightforward conclusion has produced in the Congress such frustration that we are today debating whether to apply a military field manual to non-military intelligence activities. It wold be far better, I believe, for the administration to state forthrightly what is clear in current law – that anyone who engages in waterboarding, on behalf of any U.S. government agency, puts himself at risk of criminal prosecution and civil liability.
We have come a long way in the fight against violent extremists, and the road to victory will be longer still. I support a robust offensive to wage and prevail in this struggle. But as we confront those committed to our destruction, it is vital that we never forget that we are, first and foremost, Americans. The laws and values that have built our nation are a source of strength, not weakness, and we will win the war on terror not in spite of devotion to our cherished values, but because we have held fast to them.”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/09/BABHVGO3L.DTL
Prove that Bush used cocaine Clark.
Prove it.
Let’s see some solid proof, evidence, facts. No B.S. proof.
let’s see it Clark.
Guess Clark can’t back up his claim that Bush used cocaine.
“Let’s see some solid proof, evidence, facts. No B.S. proof”
By his own words…………………. proof.
“Of course, the Republicans LIKE having drug abusers as the head of their party.”
Excuse me there WS, but isn’t Obama a drug abuser?
“Excuse me there WS, but isn’t Obama a drug abuser?”
In his teens, yes, but Bush was a self-admitted drug abuser until he was forty and Limbaugh used hillbilly heroin into his fifties.
Big difference.
……………….. and Bush qualified the statement that he hadn’t used cocaine in the proceeding seven years was because………….
He was only seven years old?
He thought that he was only seven years old?
The body regenerates every seven years so he had a new body that had never used cocaine?
He didn’t remember anything before the last seven years?
He thought they meant Coca-Cola and he had switched to Pepsi?
Karl told him to say that?
Cheney told him to say that?
He had been a cocaine user but just did not want to admit it?
.
.
.
My guess – the last one.
First off WS, Limbaugh is not a public official, nor is he running for office. Bush has denied cocaine use (although who knows), and Obama has admitted it, as a young man.
I guess Obama is the only former drug abuser mentioned running for office.
“Bush has denied cocaine use (although who knows), and Obama has admitted it, as a young man.”
Who knows if Bush used cocaine? Why would he qualify his answer as being “not in the last seven years” if he had NEVER used coke?
Why not just say, “NO, I have never used cocaine?”
Why the qualifiers?
Obama used cocaine as a teenager and admits it – Bush used well into his adulthood yet qualifies his denial.
Who is more honest and trustworthy?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-seery/the-bush-cocaine-chronicl_b_37786.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_substance_abuse_controversy
There’s two posts… Have at it!! LOL
Neither post proves Bush used cocaine Chas.
I didnt say they did Regular… But its more on the table than you have offered so far!! Eh???
Well, nuts!! UNC up by 12 at half time!!
BTW, Regular — Neither post proves he DIDNT either… LOL
“Neither post proves Bush used cocaine”
So why did he qualify his answer as being “not in the last seven years?”
Easy question, right?
Read that first link, Clark…
Dan, Irregular would not admit that Bush used cocaine even if you provided an autographed photo of Bush with a bloody nose, a rolled up bill and a snow mustache in front of a pile of powder.
Honestly, I think at this point in our history, we just need to accept the fact that somewhere in the past 50 years, MANY Americans used or experimented with drugs of various types… And once we do that, then we move on with whats happening!!
True, Clark — True :roll:
“experimented with drugs of various types…”
INSERT >>> And some of those Americans will naturally run for public office…
Thank you —-
I am encouraged by the posts here today.
Almost no infighting among Dems, and a general feeling that the process is the process and should continue.
That and a lot of right wing looking for the silver lining of the cloud they are in.
It aint there.
Encouraging – yes — but the nite is still young :-(
“He didn’t remember anything before the last seven years?”
And now he can’t even remember that toll-free (800, etc) numbers have three digits?
‘President Drops a Digit but Gets Help From a Homeowner’
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/28/AR2008032803387.html
Hillary does seem to have a firm grasp on the problems America is facing, at least with regards to China:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080329/pl_nm/usa_politics_clinton_china_dc_1
Guess I will still be waiting for a long, long time for Irregular and Price for their explanations for the Bush “not in the last seven years” cop out.
Maybe a really long time – like freakin’ forever.
They will only “spin” out of it Clark… Might be fun to watch though :-D
Prove you haven’t committed mass murder in 11 states Chas and WSClark.
Proving a negative is stoooooooooooooooopid.
Ahhh yes, leet the spinning begin!! LOL
Yeah right Chas – spin.
Asking to prove a negative is always stupid.
Prove that you are not living in Wichita.
Prove that you are not the first cousin of Adolph Hitler.
Prove that you don’t use illegal drugs on a daily basis.
Go ahead Chas, prove it.
And make it irrefutable proof, not just “spin.”
And your point is?? YOU cant prove any of your allegations!! LOL idiot!!
Actully, I can PROVE drug use or not… urine test will show that very easily… I can also prove Residency!! Thats easy!!
I’m asking you to prove it Chas.
You bear the burden.
I can say right now you use illegal drugs daily and there is nothing you can do about it if you don’t provide me with irrefutable proof.
Thank God some of you libs are coming to your senses about Hillery and Bill being the dastardly duo president all over again.
All we are saying, is,
give Obama a chance!
I don’t have the results of a certified urine test do I Chas?
Just because you say you’re a resident, doesn’t mean squat. Bring me an official Kansas form, voter’s registration, Driver’s License and Kansas tax form (filed and approved)
Until then, you haven’t proven anything.
James, THAT is your fallacy… The proof is NOT on ME… YOU make the accusation… the burden of proof is on YOU…. GUESS YOU DONT BELIEVE IN THE JUSTICE SYSTEM!!
I see WSclarkie is still fixated on drug use.
Must be tough as a life long drug abuser trying to make sense out of it all.
James, you can SAY it all day… But YOU are the one who needs to bear the burden of PROOF… As you well know, a defendant doesnt have to utter ONE WORD!! He/she does not have to PROVE innocence!!
I dont have to prove anything to you… Why??? Because I know the facts!!
Then Chas, are you George Bush? Do you know the facts of his life?
I would say no.
So stop spreading the B.S.
Everyone on the blog wears hip waders every time you write something.
Well, you all have done the same thing with Obama, and Hillary… At least I posted two… TWO… citations on Bush. ALSO, I never said he did cocaine, or that he didnt!! I just posted TWO links!! PERIOD!!
Now you want me to prove what the LINKS allege??? Thats pure nuts!!
Furthermore, ONE of those links had some rather spurious claims about several other politicians as well as GW Bush… BUT… I never agreed or disagreed with EITHER link!!
Sorry — Ya got nothing this time!!
Takes good hip waders to walk through your own BS, eh, James??
So Chas, you can’t prove that Bush took cocaine now can you?
Just admit it.
It’s that simple, really it is.
There are no signs of intelligent life here.
I have had more interesting discusions with my pet sehlat.
Can you NOT READ??? Or are you just flaming for the hell of it???
Then go talk to your sehlat, “Spock” Or, better yet, go back to Vulcan, and work on your mind meld!! LOL
Regular cannot read!!! ROFL!!
Captain, I have reviewed the transcripts from the earth based Weblog over the last several hours.
These are not transmissions from Klingon’s.
In fact, logically, these appear to be the communications between two earthling children named Regular and Chas. Evaluation of the transmissions indicate these are elementary children who are lonely and have no one else to communicate with.
Captain, if I may suggest, this is not worth the expense or time of energizing the teleport to investigate.
I would advise, we leave this region at the fastest warp speed the Enterprise can muster.
I am quite certain, there is more intelligent life anywhere else in the universe.
Hurry up and leave Spock… Your ship is messing up Satellite TV!! ROFL!!
Hey Spock, do you know what McCoy said to Kirk at Lenin’s tomb???
He said: “He’s dead, Jim. I think he’s dead, Jim!”
Regular
Posted March 29, 2008 at 10:47 pm | Permalink
So Chas, you can’t prove that Bush took cocaine now can you?
Just admit it.
It’s that simple, really it is.
===================================
Hardly that simple, James… Since I never said Bush used cocaine!! Nowhere did I say that!! As I said, you cannot READ!! Just tooo funny!! :roll:
“I see WSclarkie is still fixated on drug use.”
Still waiting for you to have me arrested, AmWay.
Still waiting.
By the way, who chooses a nic in honor of a pyramid scheme?
Oh, yeah, just some wannabe loser.
Sorry, my bad.
So, Irregular, prove to ME that Bush did NOT use cocaine.
Creepy One.
Let us venture forth to find intelligent life in
the universe.
Best warp speed away from Earth, Mr. Sulu..
(Old John Old John)
Every mornin’ at the Senate you could see him arrive
He stood five foot 6 and weighed 145
Padded suit shoulders and a replaced hip
And everybody knew you’d get weird lip from old John
(Old John Old John) Old nut John (Old John)
Nobody seemed to know where John called home
Just drifted around in a world of his own
He’s got nominated for President and the right says why?
And when he opens his mouth he makes the right cry “Why John?”
Somebody said he came from Viet nam
Where he stayed around with some friends in a jam
And later in a fight with Bush did the same
And now everyone just sees him as lame old John
(Old John Old John) Old kook John (Old John)
Then came the day when the right can’t win
2008 and so John took a spin
Wingers were prayin’ their hearts beat fast. And so they went with their weird chance last old John.
Through the clouds of despair of their own made hell
Walked a compromise of a man that the right knew well
Grabbed a flaggin’ primary and gave out with a groan
And like a dying tree he just stood there alone Old John
(Old John Old John) Old nut John (old John)
And with his fading support he tries to shove.
And the right cries out there’s a light up above!
And the right imagines they’ll escape the grave
Now there’s only one left down there to save old John.
With lies and attacks the right comes ’round
Trying to stop that rumble way down in the ground
But when the smoke and gas belches out of the mine
Everybody knows it’s the end of the line for old John
(Old John Old John) Old nut John (Old John)
Now they’ll never reopen this worthless pit
They’ll just place a small stand in front of it
These few words’re written on that stand
At the bottom of this hole lies a sacrificial lamb
Old John
(Old John Old John) Old nut John (Old John Old John) Old nut John
It is just my lousy opinion, but I am guessing that between N. Price and James McCluer, they have about eighty years of virginity going for them.
The question is; which will lose the cherry first?
I mean with a real woman, not a blow up doll, McCluer.
Apparently those would be 45 D’s
Clark, I dont believe I would want tickets to either event!! ROFLMAO!!!
“It is just my lousy opinion,”
Yes WSClark. It is is just a lousy opinion.
You added nothing to the content of the thread.
May I suggest a more juvenile blog for you?
“May I suggest a more juvenile blog for you?”
Are my comments any different than you calling me a Heebie or accusing me of being gay, McCluer?
Getting a thin skin, are you now?
And the Sock Puppets arrive for their usual weekly performance!! Of course, they add nothing to the thread of their own either…
Pot calls Kettle black!! SS-DD
Of course he is, Clark!! His flame got put out, cause I never said Bush used Cocaine!! LOL Just toooo darned funny!!
Well, finally, my phone call came in… NOW I can head off to bed, where I was headed long ago!! I wish my daughter would learn how to read her watch… maybe I need to send her a Mickey Mouse watch… Geez!!
Nite all!! Have fun figuring it all out!!
BTW, James… I could really care less if Bush used cocaine in college or not… That is ancient history…. Now, IF he was using while in the White House, it might be a problem… But I wouldnt lose sleep even over that!!
Nite nite!!
“Pot calls Kettle black!! SS-DD”
Yes Chas, you are not masturbating enough. You have way too much childish testosterone for the blogs.
You haven’t posted an adult opinion in the last six hours, and beyond.
I keep forgetting that “Blog Monitor” is another one of McCluer’s nics.
So many nics, so little time.
What a loser JM is.
By the way, McCluer why did you deny for so long that you were JM, before you actually admitted it.
Just another Republican liar?
Still waiting for your pretzel logic on Bush’s cocaine usage, Price.
Got any?
MPD has struck the web!! Take Cover!!
cmtl dhsbfyr agsvxp qjmudiozy mdoynlkr rszu lomxqs
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