Another reason lawmakers should pay for their own travel: A prewar trip to Iraq by three anti-war members of Congress reportedly was paid for by Saddam Hussein’s intelligence agency. “Obviously, we didn’t know it at the time,†said a spokesman for Rep. Jim McDermott (in photo), D-Wash., who was accompanied on the trip by then-Rep. David Bonior of Michigan and Rep. Mike Thompson of California. The Democratic congressmen are lucky to come away from the flap with red faces. The Michigan charity official who allegedly set up the junket now faces federal charges.
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89 Comments
Well bless their hearts, they were just naive lil’ Congressmen with an agenda.
Can’t really blame them for being ideologues.
(chortles)
Or Regular, you could as well title the entry: U.S. Congresmen junket to Iraq on U.S. oil company bribe money.
Door King did you happen to notice the title did not say anything about oil? I guess you can make it anything you want but you would be wrong if you change it.
Regular
Posted March 28, 2008 at 6:18 am | Permalink
Well bless their hearts, they were just naive lil’ Congressmen with an agenda.
I guess the same could be said about a certian president who started a war. Stupidity knows no bounds or party lines.
(clicks another tally for those who can’t form their own opinion, but feeds from what he posts)
(chortles)
Hud, obviously you can only see the effect; Door king looks at the cause.
Thanks for explaining that for me ghotiphaze.
(clicks another tally for those who can’t form their own opinion, but feeds from what he posts)
(chortles)
(suks)
So many haters on today.
And the Libs complain about trolls, here they are trolling away.
More (incoherent babbling)?
“So many haters on today.
And the Libs complain about trolls, here they are trolling away.”
(cry me a river)
Whoopie $hit. At least it wasn’t my freakin tax dollars.
Too bad the junket didn’t have its intended outcome. The idiot went to war regardless.
Oh, and Israel doesn’t pay for “pro-bomb Iran” members of congress { but I guess that’s alright } ?
Ed, I’m sorry they bomb pros in Iran. Maybe yu can pick one up in New York. Worked for Spitzer, didn’t it?
Hmmm . . . I wonder who paid for Donald Rumsfailed’s trip in 1985 when he sold Saddam the poison gas?
That was probably on the posionous gas industry!
And the Europeans don’t pay lobbyist to lobby McCain and the American defense industry to lure away American jobs?
Who paid for John Kerry’s trip to the Paris Peace talks? That was a trip that John Kerry made, to meet with our Communist enemies, while John Kerry was still in the Naval Reserve. (That made the trip even more illegal.)
Again, who paid for John Kerry to go to Paris to undermine United States efforts in the Vietnam War?
So, Econ, you’re saying that private citizens cannot meet with people of their choice?
Unlike Communist or Fascist societies, we are free to meet and associate with anyone we want to.
Paul, did you volunteer to go to Vietnam and fight or did you dodge like Bush did?
If they had been Republicans the flap would have been bigger. Bettcha.
I doubt it George. When Delay went to go see sweatshops in Guam where they lock people inside factories and force them to have abortions fellow Republicans didn’t mind.
Photo and video…
‘Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein:
The U.S. Tilts toward Iraq, 1980-1984′
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
Cosmos, the difference is Rummy went there to get people killed, Kerry went to Paris to save lives. Paul and the neocons aren’t happy unless somebody’s blood is spilling.
Capn
NO
Americans can not meet with our enemies, during time of war.
A person in the military of the United States absolutely, positively can NOT meet with our enemies, without the permission of superior officers.
This is probably why John Kerry received less than an honorable discharge from the Navy Reserve.
Paul, when did Congress declare war on Vietnam?
Doug
Democrat President LBJ got a Democrat Congress to authorize military force against the North Vietnamese Communist government.
The Veterans Administration recognizes the Vietnam War as a Congressionally Authorized war.
I wasn’t aware the VA had the power to declare war. Thanks for educating me on that one Paul. You are aware that according to the Constitution only Congress has the power to declare war. Since Congress didn’t declare war Kerry didn’t do anything illegal by meeting with Vietnamese ambassadors.
I know, I’m telling you facts and you probably hate that.
Who paid for John Kerry’s trip to the Paris Peace talks? That was a trip that John Kerry made, to meet with our Communist enemies, while John Kerry was still in the Naval Reserve. (That made the trip even more illegal.)
Again, who paid for John Kerry to go to Paris to undermine United States efforts in the Vietnam War?
http://mediamatters.org/items/200409020010
and they say libs are foil hatters
At least libs have enough sense to not mention the “october surprise”
Good catch ghotiphaze. It appears Paul was lying his ass off again. I should have known better than take Paul at his work, he lies compulsively.
Kerry visited Paris in 1970, but it was not in “secret” — and it was not to formally participate in negotiations with Communist leaders. As the Los Angeles Times reported on March 22, Kerry never supported formal meetings between the North Vietnamese and American anti-war protesters: “Kerry recalled his opposition to VVAW [Vietnam Veterans Against the War] leaders meeting with North Vietnamese officials. ‘I thought that would be disastrous to the credibility of the organization,’ he said, ‘to the people we were trying to convince about the war.’”
It’s clear who’s side these 3 Congressmen were on.
Too bad they backed a dead horse, instead of backing the USA.
Good Socialist Liberal Dimacrats.
A prewar trip to Iraq
reportedly was paid for by Saddam Hussein’s intelligence agency. “Obviously, we didn’t know it at the time,
“Hey, we’re part of a secret, subversive paramilitary arm of a country that you’re going to lie to your people about and start a war against, so ya wanna come over for milk and cookies?”
Is that about how it went, Maxy?
Doug
What government authority is required, by law, to make distinctions about past military conflicts, in order to judge the amount of benefits available to Veterans?
The Veterans Administration is the ONLY organization with that duty and authority.
The VA says, clearly, that the Vietnam War was authorized by Congress.
ghot
Your “media matters” link is JOKE, and it does not even address Kerry’s real violation:
Kerry was STILL a member of the Miltary, and was violating the law by meeting with an enemy of the United States, without proper clearance.
Moreover, Kerry’s own group, VVAW, is documented to have several members who had already lied about their Vietnam service. Many of the people involved in Kerry’s propaganda had NEVER been to Vietnam at all, yet “testified” that they witnessed “attrocities” — Kerry HAD to know that these people were not telling the truth.
So, we KNOW that Kerry participated in falsehoods, yet you post a “Media Matters” link that does not even address the central issues, and actually admits that Kerry DID go to Paris, against Military regulations and US Law?
(Which probably earned Kerry a Dishonorable Discharge, which was later upgraded by the Carter Administration.)
“Too bad they backed a dead horse, instead of backing the USA.”
Max, is your “dead horse” the man shaking Rumsfeld’s hand in this photo?
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein:
The U.S. Tilts toward Iraq, 1980-1984
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
Kerry was “against meeting with the Communists, until he met with the Communists????”
Paul, you claimed Kerry violated some sort of law because he spoke with “enemies” during a time of war. So which war? Congress didn’t declare war on Vietnam. Your attempt at spin is pathetic and your lie has already been exposed. By all means continue to look foolish. I wouldn’t expect anything less from someone who gets their info from Fox News.
Doug
The United States Government, TODAY and at the time of the Vietnam War, recognized that war as being fully authorized by the United States Congress.
It is YOU that looks foolish here.
And John Kerry!
John Kerry ran as a “war hero” but never wanted the American voters to know that he had met with the enemy, while he was still in the military, and that he had been disciplined by the military, for illegally meeting with the enemy during wartime.
Military Losses, 1980 thru 2007
Whatever your politics, however you lean, however you feel about the current administration, this report should open some eyes. Military losses, 1980 through 2006 ( http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf )
As tragic as the loss of any member of the US Armed Forces is, consider the following statistics: The annual fatalities of military members while actively serving in the armed forces from 1980
through 2006:
1980 ………. 2,392 (Carter Year)
1981 ………. 2,380 (Reagan Year)
1984 ………. 1,999 (Reagan Year)
1988 ………. 1,819 (Reagan Year)
1989 ………. 1,636 (George H W Year)
1990 ………. 1,508 (George H W Year)
1991 ………. 1,787 (George H W Year)
1992 ………. 1,293 (George H W Year)
1993 ………. 1,213 (Clinton Year)
1994 ………. 1,075 (Clinton Year)
1995 ………. 2,465 (Clinton Year)
1996 ………. 2,318 (Clinton Year)
1997 ………. 817 (Clinton Year)
1998 ………. 2,252 (Clinton Year)
1999 ………. 1,984 (Clinton Year)
2000 ………..1,983 (Clinton Year)
2001 …………. 890(George W Year)
2002 ………. 1,007 (George W Year)
2003 ………. 1,410 (George W Year)
2004 ………. 1,887 (George W Year)
2005 …………. 919 (George W Year)
2006………….. 920 (George W Year)
2007…………. 899 (George W Year)
Clint on years (1993-2000): 14,000 deaths
George W years (2001-2006): 7,932 deaths
If you are surprised when you look at these figures, so was I. These figures mean that the loss from the two latest conflicts in the Middle East are LESS than the loss of military personnel during Bill Clinton’s presidency; when America wasn’t even involved in a war!
And, I was even more shocked when I read that in 1980, during the reign of President (Nobel Peace Prize winner) Jimmy Carter, there were 2,392 US military fatalities! I think that these figures indicate that many members of our Media and our Politicians will pick and choose the information on which they report. Of course we all know that they present only those ‘facts’ which support their agenda-driven reporting. But why do so many of them march in lock-step to twist the truth? Where do so many of them get their marching-orders for their agenda? Obviously there is one shared agenda, and I believe it is clear it comes from the most powerful Democratic family of the decade.
Do you want further proof? Consider the latest census, of Americans. It shows the following FACTS about the distribution of American citizens, by Race:
European descent ……………………..69.12%
Hispanic ………………………………….12.5%
Black ……………….. ……………………12.3%
Asian ……………………………………… 3.7%
Native American ………………………..1.0%
Other ……………………………………….2.6%
Now… here are the fatalities by Race; over the past three years in Iraqi Freedom:
European descent (white) …………74.31%
Hispanic ……………………………….10.74%
Black ………………………………….. 9.67%
Asian ………………………………….. 1.81%
Native American …………………… 1.09%
Other ………………………………….. 0.33%
I was surprised again. . . until it became clear to me that the point here is that our mainstream media continues to spin these figures (for political gain). Nothing more.
It’s all about politics and some politicians are now famous for turning American against American for a vote. (Consider Slick Willy and his comments just recently made about So uth Carolina, Jesse Jackson, and the ‘blacks’ voting for the ‘black’ candidates); or Hillary’s stump speech after her Super Tuesday ‘victory’ stating that the current administration does not ‘listen’ to anyone and continues the war costing precious American lives. Yes, I might even agree with her, but she should be made to acknowledge her own husband’s administration, without having an actual war, sent more soldiers to death during his regime-while also forcing the military to release Osama when we actually had him detained.
I hope that during the time between now and November, that intelligent Americans can decipher the facts from the spin and the spinners from the leaders; those who seek even more power from those that seek justice, the dividers from the uniters.
Over the next months let’s be good listeners (yes, Hillary we are listening) and see and hear who tries to divide our nation; a nd who wants to unite our nation. Who wants to control how our money is spent and who wants our money spent the way we would spend it. Who seeks power and who seeks justice? Who spins the facts and who is genuine.
(These statistics are published by Congressional Research Service, and they may be confirmed by anyone at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf )
Some fodder for the real truth seekers on this blog.
Kerry visited Paris in 1970, but it was not in “secret” — and it was not to formally participate in negotiations with Communist leaders.
No, econ, you said he met with communist leaders. That’s your main contention. The article cited from the LATimes says this isn’t the case. Now it’s your turn to tell me what a liberal rag the LAtimes is, bein’ in that gawd awful california country and all. So I’ll just point out to do a bit of research as to who owns the times and the directors of their parent company so you can see them folk are about as right-wing as you can get. Given enough facts even you folks can’t lie your way around them.
Perhaps they just did not get the memo, the Downing street memo!
and actually admits that Kerry DID go to Paris, against Military regulations and US Law?
Y’know, while I was in the military, while not getting to Paris, I did spend a couple days in Cannes. My military leaders didn’t see a whole lot wrong with it–it was my time and I had leave. Also tripped all around Italy while in the service, too, and they had no problem.
All you have left is he’s white, heterosexual, and NOT A REPUBLICAN.
Baldy
Great post!
The EAGLE should run it, on the front page and on the editorial page.
ghot
It was illegal.
Kerry was not authorized to meet with the enemy.
That is called, “collaberation”
What if these Representatives had been successful?
How many lives and how much money would have been saved?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/deaths.asp
Military Losses
Claim: U.S. active duty military deaths higher under Clinton administration than G. W. Bush administration.
Status: False
Linda
nice snopes piece, too.
However, If I had posted the Snopes numbers, first, before Baldy posted his numbers, you would have been surprised at the Snopes numbers.
Even the Snopes figures put things in context, a bit.
Also, we have had several times, in US history, where we have had single days with MORE casualties than we have suffered in the entire Iraq war period.
Collaberation = something you do in college?
Something you do with a Lab?
collaboration
Good grief
linda – thanks for ’snopesing’ it. This bogus claim gets posted and reposted by the Bushies frequently.
Paul – your analogy is also bogus. It would be like saying to the families of a car crash victim “no big deal, lots of people have dies that way”
Linda many think that Snopes is liberal in their thinking. Their attempt to manipulate the numbers show that. In peacetime Clinton lost over 7,500.
“no big deal, lots of people have dies that way”
Huh??
have died … my typing is lousy
The Snopes figures are correct. Baldy’s figures are crap.
Baldy compares troop death by combat for Bush against death by any cause for Clinton.
When one compares apples to apples, Clinton’s losses per year were far less than Reagan’s, H. W. Bush’s or George W. Bush’s.
The only people attempting to “manipulate the numbers” are Baldy and his ilk.
“Linda many think that Snopes is liberal in their thinking”
Bullshit – they provide facts, something that conservatives detest.
Econ writes, “Also, we have had several times, in US history, where we have had single days with MORE casualties than we have suffered in the entire Iraq war period.”
WOW! Great point, Econ.
Did you hear that, everybody? Econ is going to volunteer for Iraq.
Hell, yeah. It’s nuthin’ to him!
Rossell fails to note, at the same time, that this war was supposed to be over four years and ten months ago.
I posted the correct numbers over a year ago, through my own research from the National Safety Foundation. Guess people forgot. :)
“Guess people forgot.”
Or they just scrolled over your post like most of us do.
Maybe econ101 will take a few months of vacation in Basra and Baghdad? Do some sight-seeing, enjoy quiet meals at cafes, etc.
“Mission accomplished” was May 1, 2003, so all is peaceful and quiet now in Iraq. Basra is a great tourist area! /sarcasm OFF.
Linda many think that Snopes is liberal in their thinking. Their attempt to manipulate the numbers show that. In peacetime Clinton lost over 7,500.
Apparently “liberal in their thinking” = thinking at all.
The same page not only includes a link to the actual government data, but points out that the viral email includes all active duty deaths–not just those from combat.
cosmos
Posted March 28, 2008 at 1:30 pm | Permalink
“Too bad they backed a dead horse, instead of backing the USA.”
Max, is your “dead horse” the man shaking Rumsfeld’s hand in this photo?
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein:
The U.S. Tilts toward Iraq, 1980-1984
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
=================================================
Only a Liberal piece of scum from the bottom of the sewers of Wichita would make such a mediocre attempt to defend the traitorous actions of 3 Democrat members of Congress in 2002, with the diplomatic actions of the then Secretary of State more then 10 years before.
Cheney met with Saddam Hussein before 2 wars were waged against him, and before numerous UN Sanctions were levied against Hussein.
Rep. Jim McDermott, Rep. David Bonior and Rep. Mike Thompson met with Hussein after 1 war and while continuing UN Sanctions were in place, AND had their trip paid for by the ENEMY.
Cosmos, you have displayed a new level of lowness. Congratulations.
Rumsfeld.
Max – that trip was BEFORE the war. Numerous congresspeople made such trips – often paid for by Israeli and/or Iraqi national Congress interests pushing us to war.
Perhaps ALL such trips should be scrutinized.
Well Ben, since they made the effort to complete a hands-on assessment of the Iraq situation, I’m sure their votes for the war were justified. I’m sure they even read the National Intelligence Estimate too.
“Prosecutors say that trip was arranged by Muthanna Al-Hanooti, a Michigan charity official, who was charged Wednesday with setting up the junket at the behest of Saddam’s regime. Iraqi intelligence officials allegedly paid for the trip through an intermediary and rewarded Al-Hanooti with 2 million barrels of Iraqi oil.”
Amazing how Max can find the three guilty of whatever his mind seems to think they are based on the above. The whole thing is just coming to light, and it appears the three were under the impression it was for something entirely different.
“”Obviously, we didn’t know it at the time,” McDermott spokesman Michael DeCesare said Wednesday. “The trip was to see the plight of the Iraqi children. That’s the only reason we went.”
Noble purpose, don’t you think? O, excuse me: In max’s world, all democrats are guilty even if proven innocent. What a one-tracker.
Max,
I was simply pointing out that your “dead horse” used to be an USA ally.
And BTW… inspections were stopped by Bush’s invasion
March 7 2003 | New York, USA
Statement to the United Nations Security Council
‘The Status of Nuclear Inspections in Iraq: An Update’
http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Statements/2003/ebsp2003n006.shtml
The invasion of Iraq began on March 20, 2003.
JM Walker,
Funny and ironic double standard you have going here.
In one thread you assign blame to the Republicans and Bush on a bad contract which had little to nothing to do with them and on this thread you are defending these Democrats…
Nathan,
Who runs the pentagon? Where does the buck stop there? Using some snot-nosed 22 year old punk to broker a 300million dollar weapons deal strikes me as typical of what this admin stands for. Need I remind you of Katrina? Signing statements? What the president had Gonzales do to Ashcroft? Nuclear weapons violation?
Max condemned all three of the travelers to Iraq without knowing exactly what the facts are. That they were anti-war, in my opinion, has little to do with it. Hell, I’m anti-war in Iraq.
I don’t see a double standard on my part, but I sure see it on both your and Max’s side.
I wouldn’t blink twice when accepting money from somebody named Muthanna Al-Hanooti. Great charity he gots there.
Nathan posted March 28, 2008 at 8:25 pm
“… and on this thread you are defending these Democrats…”
Actually, J M Walker’s 7:54 pm post accurately pointed out that the three Democrats seemed to be innocent, and did not need “defending”.
Cosmos,
That is, essentially, defending them.
JM Walker,
When you can lay out for me the complete chain of command between Bush and the approval of that contract and then make a well reasoned and logical argument on how Bush is at fault you will have a leg to stand on.
Same old Partisan BS.
Say, these 3 guys are ok. They went to Saddam’s funeral to show their respect. Visited the graves of Usie and Coosie too.
Nathan,
Here’s what the duh Dems argument involve.
“Um Repukes duh blah blah Bush then he got Cheneyed after Katrina was ignored idiot scum complicit it’s all about oil fart gag reich wing lied then lied cover up sacrifice the constitution violate privacy blah blah puke fed war pull out leave iraq no wmd false puke nazis rumfeld torture gun down innocent rapist killers facists.”
That pretty much sums up the Democrapic dialogue.
Nathan,
That is correct, for people who are not smart enough to realize that innocent people are not guilty.
Paul, if Congress declared war on Vietnam as you claim then perhaps you could direct me to the bill authorizing an official declaration of war. Contrary to what you think the VA does not authorize war. The mere fact that I have to point this out clearly shows you don’t know what you are talking about.
“the surge is working, stay the course, mission accomplished, 70% are against the war: So?,” ad nausem.
Nobody visited the graves of the babies who died(sic) in Kuwait, after Saddam’s vicious troops stole their incubators, and left the babies on the floor — because the incubators had NOT been stolen.
It was just a bogus, fictional story, that helped justify the ‘Desert Storm’ war.
Much like the later “intelligence”(sic).
Nathan:
I never said that Bush was at fault, just his administration, which is headed by him. You’re right: it is a chain of command thing. Who has the authority to close a 300million deal? And for ammo going to a foreign country? It sure as hell wasn’t Clinton, which should piss you off, as you can’t blame him this time.
“That pretty much sums up the Democrapic dialogue.”
Good one regular.
Here’s the opposite sides repuke diarrhea:
Kill . . . invade . . . destroy . . . it’s MY money and I want it now . . . kids don’t need no doctors . . . science? what science? I don’t need no stikin science; I got da bible to think for me, and so should you, you heathens . . . What? A disaster hit new orleans? Why there’s nuthin but no-account welfare cheats there anyway. send em nuthin . . . find the dirt . . . find the dirt.
J M, you forgot about the part where 9/11 and Katrina are to be blamed on gays and abortionists.
Or even gay abortionists.
WSC,
it’s always something, aint it:-)
I thought it was the gay abortionists who caused global warming? Could it be they’re the root cause of all this countries problems? Where are the illegal aliens to take care of this problem when you really, really need them?
(Shoulder operation : pain pills totally knocked out my regular sleep cycle. Six weeks of rehab . . .I’m going stir crazy, and the repubes will pay dearly :))
Max–
You are in error.
When Rumsfailed was shaking hands with Saddam, he was CEO of a big pharmaceutical firm, Searle.
He was a private citizen engaging in trade.
Let’s see. Saddam Hussein and pharmaceutical company . . . hmmm . . . impossible to say what he might be buying.
Certainly, it wasn’t chemicals to make poison gas with. Nah, we can eliminate that!
:roll:
J M, the root of all our problems could be a black gay illegal immigrant environmentalist abortionist that gives sermons on Sunday mornings at a church that teaches black pride.
Or it could be just Republicans.
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real estate crash course…
Good post. I am looking into these issues on my blog….