“They are not aging baby boomers over in Lawrence. They’re not a bunch of stoners from Haysville. These are citizens who believe seriously and terminally ill people should be allowed to use marijuana if their physician believes it will help.†— Laura Green, director of the Kansas Compassionate Care Coalition, testifying in Topeka Monday on behalf of those who would be helped by a bill to create a “medical necessity†defense for someone arrested for possession of marijuana or drug paraphernalia
“Hey, I grew up in Haysville, and I was never a stoner. I’m offended by Laura Green’s remarks. I would have been willing to support them had Green not so shamelessly slandered my old hometown.†— Reader comment on the Topeka Capital-Journal Web site
233 Comments
sick people want medicinal plants without govt interference
I think the commenter was a little over the top. We know what she meant. Every community has stoners. I wouldn’t be offended if she had said my town, geez.
and I also support her statements.
I’m surprised they even let her have a hearing. We need some better representation up in Topeka that is for sure.
” I would have been willing to support them had Green not so shamelessly slandered my old hometown.”
Way to focus on what’s really important.
“She insulted my hometown, so I now won’t support her cause.”
You aren’t doing the reputation of your hometown much good there, are ya?
I’ll insult my own hometown if it makes that reader feel better. Sounds like the typical close-minded Kansan with a superiority complex.
Even if the only advocates were “stoners from Haysville, it shouldn’t matter.
The only-est downside of growing, using, or posessing marijuana is that you can get busted for it.
Does anyone believe that eliminating all marijuana-prohibition laws would all of a sudden and automatically turn “Hank” or “Nathan” or “Regular” or “ksgrm” or “American Way” or “Econ101″ or “GMC70″ into basement-dwelling stoned-out slackers? (Okay, the “Regular” reference might not be relevant. But you get the point.)
There are plenty of herbal remedies that may or may not have health benefits. My sister insists I take a fish oil capsule every day. (I’m not high on drugs, I’m high on fish oil!!)
The only “gateway” marijuana introduces is the one into the illicit drug culture. If marijuana weren’t “illicit” — were grown in just about every corner of backyard gardens and in farmers’ fields, there’d be no marijuana “problem.” Even in Haysville.
Exactly. My sister-in-law works as an abuse counselor for Sg. Co. and I debate her weekly. And she (kind of) admits that the true “gateway” drug is…milk. Milk from the mother. Then kid’s get fed soda-pop, candy, etc. Those are the real gateway drugs. That was a sophomoric argument, but it rings true nonetheless. The illegalization of marijuana happened to secure corporate bottom lines. And was voted on by scared, dumb, white rascists who were warned that black men, high on marijuana, would rape the white girls.
Even police say this is rediculous.
I do not know if marijuana would help with my considerable digestive problems. But it would be nice to be able to at least give it a try without fear of being arrested. I have had enough “legal” drugs thrown at me that only made things worse.
My wife was fighting for her life in 1992, taking chemotherapy & being sick for days afterward. Those of us that watch loved ones suffer wish we could do more. If marijuana can ease the suffering of those in life & death struggles then I’m all for it.
The thread should be titled: “Who doesn’t want medical marijuana?”
And I’ll tell ya.
Actually, I’ll cite H.L. Mencken who said it best. (H.L. Mencken always said it best.)
THe people who oppose marijuana are those who harbor “the haunting fear that somebody, somewhere, may be happy”
I agree, PoliMom. Ya’d think Haysville had no dopers.
I don’t really disagree with your statement about happy people, monkeyhawk, but feel those who have a vested interest in other drugs (that can be sold at ridiculously inflated rates) are also against legalized MJ. I also think the DEA gestapo wishes to keep it illegal. Makes for an easy job. Easier to bust some snot-nosed kid for a twist than to go after the really hard stuff (’sides the really rich do coke, and we don’t want to tick them off).
As a former indulger (none since ‘95–ya either outgrow it or it outgrows you), my personal opinion is to legalize the herb and criminalize alcohol. Drunks on the road tend to drive 10 to 15 mph faster, stoners, 10 to 15 miles SLOWER. If you’re gonna get hit by someone of diminished capacity, would you rather be hit by the person going 10 mph faster, the twit on the cellphone going exactly the limit, or the stoner going 10 mps slower?
So you think gasoline is expensive:
My wife is taking a pill called Abilify (anti-depressant). I weighed it the other day and it weighed 1/2 of a grain (7,000 grains in one pound). The single pill cost $11.80 and at that rate a pound of this medication would cost $165,200.00 or if I bought a gallon container and it weighed the same as gasoline, i.e., 7# to the gallon, the cost would be $1,156,400.00 (that’s a cool million dollars +). She is not eligible for Medicare Part D yet and we have no health insurance. With a price tag like this, a consumer should be given an equity voting position in the pharmaceutical company. I won’t go into the cost of a nationalized health insurance plan (Didn’t Hugo Chavez of Venezuela just “nationalize” the oil companies?) and the taxes necessary to fund this boondoggle or Hillary’s mandatory health-care premiums when she is “elected” the first monarch of the U.S.
This “pill” is a renewable chemical compound versus non-renewable hydrocarbon fuel and the pharmaceuticals can produce thousands quickly. I think both industries and OPEC are getting the best of the consuming public, but the pharmaceuticals are really putting the screws to the people. Pharmaceuticals blame their prices on R&D, I say B.S., and if anyone believes that then they deserve a nationalized health care system/bureaucracy rather than the free market system and price and demand and supply and demand. I know it is hard for some to believe but the free enterprise competitive market system actually works without “government assistance.”
Don’t forget that people are customers and that doctors, hospitals and pharmacies are in a “for-profit” business. Real health care went out with the Hula Hoop! If a hospital is in the non-profit business, where does all the money come from to build these fancy parking garages and arboretums adjacent to the hospital? Perhaps some price trimming for hospital rooms and regular parking lots are in order.
You can afford to buy gas still, you just can’t afford to get sick or pay for medications.
What’s funny is that Haysville really is a crappy town. It’s funny that anybody would get indignant over somebody stating the truth.
Rog, if you live in enough places, you’ll learn that it don’t matter where you live–everyplace is exactly like every other place.
Okay, Haysville’s my hometown too, and the comment that it was slandered and therefore the policy cannot be supported is embarrassing. I did a speech in college supporting medicinal use of marijuana. What was funny was I had to use statistics from Canada because the U.S. doesn’t even research it’s potential medical use.
JR – In researching my speech, marijuana was shown to be helpful with Chrone’s (sp?) disease. It may be helpful with your digestive problems.
None of it should be illegal in the first place. We imprison half a million pot users a year, some are stoners, some are looking for pain relief. Some are just regular responsible folks who use it once in year or so. We’re running out of rooms in prisons to house sex offenders, and other violent criminals because half the prison population is in prison for drug related charges, and half of them are in their for non-violent criminal possesion of a drug, which is stupid. We have to release child molesters from prison, because they are over crowded with non-violent drug offenders.
My sentiments exactly, WhiteElephant.
I agree too, White Elephant. Decriminalize marijuana, and you’ve solved the overcrowding problem in jails.
I don’t know. What does the Kansas Coalition for Compassionate Care do other than promote the use of Marijuana? If THC can legitimately be used as medicine it should be developed into a pharmaceitical delivery system that doesn’t involve rolling a joint and smoking it. If people want to roll and smoke a dubee, they obviously aren’t interested in getting healthy. This is one of those issues that you watch and see just how much BS our legislature will buy into.
Decriminalize Marijuana. Restrict it as you do alcohol. Must be 21, can’t drive high, etc. Package it like cigarettes and tax it at a higher rate. $25 a pack. It is cheap to produce. Think about the tax revenue.
Also, make it legal to grow and consume yourself.
“Rog, if you live in enough places, you’ll learn that it don’t matter where you live–everyplace is exactly like every other place.”
Uh…right. Are you sure you quit smoking the hippie lettuce?
WAR – When people drink, they usually aren’t doing it to get healthy. So why is liquor legal, and marijuana isn’t? A valid reason, not the propaganda that was used to make it illegal in the first place.
Of course, you’ll have folks like WAR!!!! that need to involve BIG PHARMA somehow. I don’t need a pill, I need government to stay out of it. With that logic, then we should create an alcohol gel-cap because of all of the cirrhosis that is so prevalent amongst drinker’s. But then with all of the capsules and tablets and gel caps then we get into the hurting of the liver as well. What about a spray like deodorant, crap, then we’ll deal with skin disorders…
You’ll always trade one possible injury for another when you are dealing with health. my wife has a co-worker who’s father is on dialysis and dying after taking ibuprofen for years for chronic pain.
TDT,
The difference is that I can enjoy a nice glass of wine with my meal without getting drunk or losing my reasoning.
As a child of the ’70’s I induldged. And I’m still here to talk about it. I didn’t become a druggie, slipping into bathrooms or back alley’s to shoot heroin. I worked, paid my taxes, lived a normal life.
I think the government is missing the bus on this one. Think of all the tax revenue they could get off of it, like with liquour and tobacco.
It is a common myth that somehow the jails are full of simple marijuana users.
There is no proven medical benefit to smoking marijuana, other than it making you high. There are other drugs which can help people with pain, other than marijuana, thus there is no reason to legalize it other than your wanting to get high or allow others to do so.
Uh…right. Are you sure you quit smoking the hippie lettuce?
LOL
Basically, that mean where you live and how you perceive places depends more on you than on the place. I’ve lived in a town with population of 200 (around 2500 during summer months) all the way to metro cities. Even big cities are small towns under the skin.
Pleef, I definitely agree with your posts. I’m sure I have an isomizer mothballed somewhere where i could do it cheaper than Bayer or Lilly.
(ok, no I don’t, got rid of all that stuff years before I abstained).
And quit the scare tactics on the ibuprophen. I’m honest about it being a staple food in my diet.
I think the only thing the war on drugs has done is make a lot of people a lot of money. The government people getting a high salary want to justify their pay. The dealers like the inflated prices of short supply. All they are doing is making the drug lords, well, lords. I think you could even go so far as to say our government is helping to finance terrorists by inflating the price of something that would grow wild in any ditch.
What is funny, is that marijuana is medically proven more harmful to you than smoking cigarettes, yet here you are trying to legalize it?
The difference is that I can enjoy a nice glass of wine with my meal without getting drunk or losing my reasoning.
And what’s the point? Grape juice is cheaper and tastes a whole lot better.
“TDT,
“The difference is that I can enjoy a nice glass of wine with my meal without getting drunk or losing my reasoning.”
And you think that people can’t smoke a joint without getting high or losing their reasoning?
You not only posted a rhetorical argument, it was a dumb one.
“TDT,
“The difference is that I can enjoy a nice glass of wine with my meal without getting drunk or losing my reasoning.”
And you think that people can’t smoke a joint without getting high or losing their reasoning?
You not only posted a rhetorical argument, it was a dumb one.
There is no proven medical benefit to smoking marijuana,
HMMMM. except people that are undergoing kemotherapy say it reduces the nausea and gives them an appetite. Sounds good to me. My wife takes pills and then she takes pills to counteract the side effects of the pills. I can understand why phamacists and drug makers would be against using natural herbs.
There is no proven medical benefit to smoking marijuana, other than it making you high.
And the proven medicinal value of alcohol?
marijuana is medically proven more harmful to you than smoking cigarettes
So outlaw MaryJane, tobacco, alcohol, oh yeah the sun causes cancer, so mandate SPF45, driving is pretty dangerous and raises stress, fat kills you so outlaw burger king…
I agree with the kid, who on his vocabulary test, when asked, “what do you call an ignorant pretender to medical knowledge?”, answered, “Doctor”.
Like Twain said (and if you wanna see just how true this is, research this quote),” It ain’t the things whe know that get us into trouble near as much as the things we know that just ain’t so”.
Look at all the medical ‘facts’ that have been disproven just in your short life. I’ve said before, the results of any study is directly proportional to the desired results of those funding the study.
Ksagnostic,
If you are actually trying to say that there is not any difference between the effects of one drink on one person verses one joint on one person then you are the one being dumb.
Nate, it depends on the drink, the the joint, and the person.
Sure if you drink a glass of wine a few times a year, your body is chemically predisposed to react negatively to acohol, You’re going to get plowed. If you smoke an ounce a day, and you’re predisposed to have little effect of THC, you won’t even notice a joint.
“Ksagnostic,
“If you are actually trying to say that there is not any difference between the effects of one drink on one person verses one joint on one person then you are the one being dumb.”
Put up or shut up. You’ve just made a mere assertion. Remember, your initial point appears to be: “without getting drunk or losing my reasoning” therefore to claim that I said there is “not any difference between the effects of etc. etc.” is a straw man. Please provide evidence for your apparent contention that a single joint will result in a person getting high and being unable to reason, or withdraw it.
Ksagnostic,
When you first present the evidence for your point which you demand from me, then I will reply in kind.
Nitwit.
Remember about 20 years or so ago when milk was pulled off the shelves for too much morphine? Cows produce it (or a very close molecule with virtually identical effects) as a natural process of their digestion. Let’s outlaw milk. And what about the opium in cabbage (or is it lettuce–all veggies are the same to me).
Be honest, Nate, you enjoy wine, so it’s all right. Other people like the herb so it’s a no-no. I could make the point that MJ and mushrooms are meant to be indulged in since Daddy God put it here for our enjoyment (made that claim myself for nearly 30 years for purely natural buzzes), but, y’know, fruits will naturally ferment under the right circumstances.
Apples to apples. A joint is more reflective of a bottle of wine or a six pack. Each glass or can is representative of a hit or toke. So two glasses of wine vs. two hits for people equally acclimatized to their drug of choice would most likely acquire the same level of intoxication.
A joint is more reflective of a bottle of wine or a six pack
Man, they’ve sure upgraded since I was doing it. Even a Bamboo of Kona wouldn’t effect me like a bottle of wine does.
Actually their are thousands of studies that show marijuana having medical value. The big drug companies dont want competition from something people could grow themselves.
Medicinal marijuana, why should it matter?
If I am dying your personal conveniences and your moral ethics will be meaningless to me.
I will do what pleases me and do what I want to do.
agreed, wiseman!
The Institute of Medicine’s 1999 report on medical marijuana stated, “The accumulated data indicate a potential therapeutic value for cannabinoid drugs, particularly for symptoms such as pain relief, control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation.”
Source: Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A Benson, Jr., “Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base,” Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999).
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/medicalm.htm
In the Institute of Medicine’s report on medical marijuana, the researchers examined the physiological risks of using marijuana and cautioned, “Marijuana is not a completely benign substance. It is a powerful drug with a variety of effects. However, except for the harms associated with smoking, the adverse effects of marijuana use are within the range of effects tolerated for other medications.”
Source: Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A Benson, Jr., “Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base,” Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999).
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/medicalm.htm
If marijuana is so dangerous name someone who has died as a result of marijuana use. Elvis, Judy Garland, Marylin Monroe, Heath Leger all died from shit they got from Dr’s/Phamarachists. BTW I think we had this discussion yesterday
And constipation. But the cost of the amount you’d have to ingest is prohibitive.
Kidding aside, I’ve known people who swear they can’t do their daily without doober.
In spite of the established medical value of marijuana, doctors are presently permitted to prescribe cocaine and morphine – but not marijuana.
Source: The Controlled Substances Act of 1970, 21 U.S.C. §§ 801 et seq.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/medicalm.htm
Organizations that have endorsed medical access to marijuana include: the Institute of Medicine, the American Academy of Family Physicians; American Bar Association; American Public Health Association; American Society of Addiction Medicine; AIDS Action Council; British Medical Association; California Academy of Family Physicians; California Legislative Council for Older Americans; California Medical Association; California Nurses Association; California Pharmacists Association; California Society of Addiction Medicine; California-Pacific Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church; Colorado Nurses Association; Consumer Reports Magazine; Kaiser Permanente; Lymphoma Foundation of America; Multiple Sclerosis California Action Network; National Association of Attorneys General; National Association of People with AIDS; National Nurses Society on Addictions; New Mexico Nurses Association; New York State Nurses Association; New England Journal of Medicine; and Virginia Nurses Association.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/medicalm.htm
But I guess Nathan is smarter than all these folks. Moral standards and all dontcha know?
Prescribe cocaine? Don’t you need a Beverly Hills doctor, though?
How many folks smoke a couple joints and get into a bar fight? Quite the opposite actually.
Lets talk about beer now…
Fish,
I know that was a joke, but I think they are more referring to derivatives of cocaine.
Yeah, I knew about novacaine. Isn’t supposed to be a new derivative the last few years as an alternative to novacaine? Seem to recall noticing that a couple years ago and thinking What’s the point?
Dunno.
“Doctors are presently permitted to prescribe cocaine and morphine”
SolDev that is so true, I was given that kind of mixture just after surgery.
And I did not know about it until I have gotten a full itemization statement of the cost on my bill.
I love how “Nathan” somehow thinks he’s an expert on marijuana.
On that basis, I should now expect “WSClark” as the supreme expert on the Marine Corps.
Actually I think cocaine is mostly in eye surgery.
“Nathan” — let me emphasize that I’m talking about “NATHAN! — is now the WE Blog’s self-proclaimed expert on marijuana.
Guess that qualifies me to be the WE Blog’s self-proclaimed expert on shooting people who might kill my dog.
Reminds me of the old ‘Nam joke:
If you’re a civilian, it’s 23 minutes after Noon.
If you’re Army, it’s Twelve-hundred twenty-three hours.
If you’re a Marine, the little hand is on the 12 and the big hand is halfway between the 4 and the five.
Nathan,
Sure, there are other drugs that alleviate pain. They’re called opiates and they’re addictive, and almost never prescribed in effective doses. And if your other treatments cause nausea, taking opiates relieves the pain at the cost of constant vomiting.
The dangers you cite are the same dangers accociated with smoking anything; that’s why medicinal marijuana is often baked into brownies by organizations that supply it to patients.
And yes, it does make the patient high, at least initially; so do opiates. That’s certainly preferable to unbearable pain! It also increases the appetite, which is beneficial to people suffering from cancer, MS, AIDS, etc.
I realize that you are a great believer in the purifying power of suffering, and wish to promote as much suffering as possible, but some of us are already as pure as we need to be and would rather not suffer. It should be our choice to make.
Tom, I don’t know about eye surgery but for me it was Mastoidectomy (ear surgery).
“Ksagnostic,
“When you first present the evidence for your point which you demand from me, then I will reply in kind.
You are the one who at least implied a positive claim (”The difference is that I can enjoy a nice glass of wine with my meal without getting drunk or losing my reasoning.”). The clear implication is that the closest comparison, a single joint, will cause a person to “lose their reasoning”, and to give you credit for not mixing up terminology, get high. The person who advances the positive claim is the person who needs to provide evidence for it. That is debating 101.
Please provide evidence that people who smoke a single joint (to make the closest equivalence, let’s say with their meal) can not do so without getting high or losing their reasoning. I am not obligated to defend a negative claim.
“Nitwit.”
You seem to be fond of resorting to this pejorative, particularly when you are getting your rhetorical ass kicked.
If you’re a Marine, the little hand is on the 12 and the big hand is halfway between the 4 and the five.
Monkeyhawk, as a non-practicing jarhead, 8^b~~~~
Sounds like you’re the “Nitwit” Nate. Go grab a bottle and suck on it.
Wiseman nailed it. If I’m hurting or dying, I’m doing what I want to feel better. Regardless of your holier-than-thou, always-right line of thinking.
“What is funny, is that marijuana is medically proven more harmful to you than smoking cigarettes, yet here you are trying to legalize it?”
Not really. The comparison is based on smoking the same amount. However many people smoke 20-40 cigs a day. Not so with weed – maybe 1-2 a day.
And weed is nowhere near as hazardous as alcohol – and MUCH less so than drugs like OxyContin (Rush’s favorite) which Doctors routinely prescribe.
Ben,
The great supporter of attacking big tobacco, now the great supporter of defending smoking marijuana.
So, as long as the big tobacco companies are only asking people to smoke a little bit each day or week, you are all for smoking then?
Lets look at some facts about Marijuana:
http://www.dea.gov/ongoing/marijuana.html
Q: Does marijuana pose health risks to users?
Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use:
The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2.
In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.
There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.
Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.
Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3
Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6
Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.
More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999.
Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7
Q. Does marijuana have any medical value?
Any determination of a drug’s valid medical use must be based on the best available science undertaken by medical professionals. The Institute of Medicine conducted a comprehensive study in 1999 to assess the potential health benefits of marijuana and its constituent cannabinoids. The study concluded that smoking marijuana is not recommended for the treatment of any disease condition. In addition, there are more effective medications currently available. For those reasons, the Institute of Medicine concluded that there is little future in smoked marijuana as a medically approved medication.8
Advocates have promoted the use of marijuana to treat medical conditions such as glaucoma. However, this is a good example of more effective medicines already available. According to the Institute of Medicine, there are six classes of drugs and multiple surgical techniques that are available to treat glaucoma that effectively slow the progression of this disease by reducing high intraocular pressure.
In other studies, smoked marijuana has been shown to cause a variety of health problems, including cancer, respiratory problems, increased heart rate, loss of motor skills, and increased heart rate. Furthermore, marijuana can affect the immune system by impairing the ability of T-cells to fight off infections, demonstrating that marijuana can do more harm than good in people with already compromised immune systems.9
In addition, in a recent study by the Mayo Clinic, THC was shown to be less effective than standard treatments in helping cancer patients regain lost appetites.10
The American Medical Association recommends that marijuana remain a Schedule I controlled substance.
The DEA supports research into the safety and efficacy of THC (the major psychoactive component of marijuana), and such studies are ongoing, supported by grants from the National Institute on Drug Abuse.
As a result of such research, a synthetic THC drug, Marinol, has been available to the public since 1985. The Food and Drug Administration has determined that Marinol is safe, effective, and has therapeutic benefits for use as a treatment for nausea and vomiting associated with cancer chemotherapy, and as a treatment of weight loss in patients with AIDS. However, it does not produce the harmful health effects associated with smoking marijuana.
Furthermore, the DEA recently approved the University of California San Diego to undertake rigorous scientific studies to assess the safety and efficacy of cannabis compounds for treating certain debilitating medical conditions.
It’s also important to realize that the campaign to allow marijuana to be used as medicine is a tactical maneuver in an overall strategy to completely legalize all drugs. Pro-legalization groups have transformed the debate from decriminalizing drug use to one of compassion and care for people with serious diseases. The New York Times interviewed Ethan Nadelman, Director of the Lindesmith Center, in January 2000. Responding to criticism from former Drug Czar Barry McCaffrey that the medical marijuana issue is a stalking-horse for drug legalization, Mr. Nadelman did not contradict General McCaffrey. “Will it help lead toward marijuana legaization?” Mr. Nadelman said: “I hope so.”
Q. Does marijuana harm anyone besides the individual who smokes it?
Consider the public safety of others when confronted with intoxicated drug users:
Marijuana affects many skills required for safe driving: alertness, the ability to concentrate, coordination, and reaction time. These effects can last up to 24 hours after smoking marijuana. Marijuana use can make it difficult to judge distances and react to signals and signs on the road.11
In a 1990 report, the National Transportation Safety Board studied 182 fatal truck accidents. It found that just as many of the accidents were caused by drivers using marijuana as were caused by alcohol — 12.5 percent in each case.
Consider also that drug use, including marijuana, contributes to crime. A large percentage of those arrested for crimes test positive for marijuana. Nationwide, 40 percent of adult males tested positive for marijuana at the time of their arrest.
Q. Is marijuana a gateway drug?
Yes. Among marijuana’s most harmful consequences is its role in leading to the use of other illegal drugs like heroin and cocaine. Long-term studies of students who use drugs show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana. While not all people who use marijuana go on to use other drugs, using marijuana sometimes lowers inhibitions about drug use and exposes users to a culture that encourages use of other drugs.
The risk of using cocaine has been estimated to be more than 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it.12
In Summary:
Marijuana is a dangerous, addictive drug that poses significant health threats to users.
Marijuana has no medical value that can’t be met more effectively by legal drugs.
Marijuana users are far more likely to use other drugs like cocaine and heroin than non-marijuana users.
Drug legalizers use “medical marijuana” as red herring in effort to advocate broader legalization of drug use.
I think that last sentence highlights the truth of what is going on in this thread:
DRUG LEGALIZERS USE “MEDICAL MARIJUANA” AS RED HERRING IN EFFORT TO ADVOCATE BROADER LEGALIZATION OF DRUG USE.
Nathan – I have NEVER advocated banning smoking. Any suggestion that I have is a lie.
I DO, however, favor restrictions on second-hand exposure with either tobacco or weed. Since I use neither I have a right not to be subjected to them.
Oh, the DEA is the bottom line and has no vested interest in creating research that benefits their Nazi style tactics. Pretty good at citing disinfo eh? You can keep your DEA logic.
The most predictive gateway drug is early use of tobacco. Of course, the DEA will claim otherwise.
Your LEGAL drugs are from your buddies Pfizer and the like. Of course they are legal, you have to pay THEM for the drugs. Again, you can keep your Fascist propaganda.
Pleefer,
Those comments are all backed by references. It is not Propaganda.
What are your sources? High Times?
Ben,
Did I say you were advocating the ban of smoking?
Calm down.
ksagnostic
Posted February 13, 2008 at 11:14 am | Permalink
“TDT,
“The difference is that I can enjoy a nice glass of wine with my meal without getting drunk or losing my reasoning.”
Whoa there ksagnostic, I didn’t post that, Nathan did.
It is not Propaganda
Yes, it is propaganda.
Logic and freedom are the only “sources” I need. I don’t need the people who sell me their drugs to tell me that the other guys’ are bad. But, if you absolutely need sources, just give me a minute. but before I dig around, I remember one such “experiment” that was conducted by your scientists that included a chimp wearing a gas mask that was choked by nothing but the smoke (no oxygen) and whatever outcome of that test was consider acceptable. i’ll be right back…
Nathan,
Read up thread. Provided many sources you seem to have over looked. They have sources themselves. Big hint, it isn’t the DEA.
How much money did the DEA capture last year? Seems they have a dog in this fight. Way to use non-biased sources Nathan.
Man that was hard. All I did was Google “Medical benefits of Marijuana” and this is just one that came up.
Ben,
How is it propanda?
My bad, one source and each item had its own sources.
Nathan, with the exception of “illegal” each one of your “questions” and “answers” from the DEA propagnda, is identical to what you could say about morphine, demarol, ANY opiate…
The FED has just decided to zero in on Pot, because they can… Please read some of the REAL facts on medical marijuana — cause your arguments against it are making you look foolish here…
Nathan, the only difference between what you are saying and that of Coca-Cola running experiments saying that Pepsi is detrimental to health is that Pepsi would sue Coke for libel. who’s going to sue the DEA? God?
Marijuana use may be harmful to mental health
http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update0503c.shtml
Is this just more propaganda too, Ben?
of course the DEA is going to say drugs are bad to do otherwise would jeopardize their existence as the gestapo of the federal government. I always find conservatives a funny lot their against government execpt for when their not
Pleefer,
The DEA was merely compiling sources, not making things up.
You do understand that don’t you?
SolDevVB
Posted February 13, 2008 at 11:57 am | Permalink
The Institute of Medicine’s 1999 report on medical marijuana stated, “The accumulated data indicate a potential therapeutic value for cannabinoid drugs, particularly for symptoms such as pain relief, control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation.”
Source: Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A Benson, Jr., “Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base,” Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999).
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/medicalm.htm
Did you guys miss my points yesterday, anyway you look at it, alcohol is hundreds of times more dangerous than marijuana.
Chas,
How does quoting the DEA, which is quoting various sources, make “my” argument look foolish?
SolDevVB
Posted February 13, 2008 at 11:59 am | Permalink
In the Institute of Medicine’s report on medical marijuana, the researchers examined the physiological risks of using marijuana and cautioned, “Marijuana is not a completely benign substance. It is a powerful drug with a variety of effects. However, except for the harms associated with smoking, the adverse effects of marijuana use are within the range of effects tolerated for other medications.”
Source: Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and John A Benson, Jr., “Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base,” Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Research, Institute of Medicine (Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1999).
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/medicalm.htm
SolDevVB
Posted February 13, 2008 at 12:01 pm | Permalink
Organizations that have endorsed medical access to marijuana include: the Institute of Medicine, the American Academy of Family Physicians; American Bar Association; American Public Health Association; American Society of Addiction Medicine; AIDS Action Council; British Medical Association; California Academy of Family Physicians; California Legislative Council for Older Americans; California Medical Association; California Nurses Association; California Pharmacists Association; California Society of Addiction Medicine; California-Pacific Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church; Colorado Nurses Association; Consumer Reports Magazine; Kaiser Permanente; Lymphoma Foundation of America; Multiple Sclerosis California Action Network; National Association of Attorneys General; National Association of People with AIDS; National Nurses Society on Addictions; New Mexico Nurses Association; New York State Nurses Association; New England Journal of Medicine; and Virginia Nurses Association.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/medicalm.htm
But I guess Nathan is smarter than all these folks. Moral standards and all dontcha know?
Nathan,
Because the DEA stands to lose money. Duh.
How about the above posts Nathan, you know, the ones from the Institute of Medicine?
“Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7″
That is because it’s illegality has institutionalized and refined production. If we let people grow and smoke their own, your issue here as to concentration of THC becomes irrelevant.
And no, I haven’t had a hit of weed in more than 20 years. And then only one or two times. But why not allow me to have it if it would help me?
Sol,
A potential medical value? That is all your quote said.
What is that potential? Have medical studies shown it to us?
Her book was merely an evaluation of those questions, not proof of anything more than a continued study of marijuana as medical treatment.
Nathan
Posted February 13, 2008 at 1:17 pm | Permalink
Marijuana is a dangerous, addictive drug
And yet…
Society of Addiction Medicine
supports medicinal marijuana. Go figure.
White Elephant – I’m with you, I think alcohol is MUCH more dangerous, in every aspect, than marijuana. It’s much more damaging to your body, mind, and also other people, i.e. driving drunk and fighting drunk.
In my life I’ve known a lot of people who smoked pot.
In my life I’ve known a lot of people who drank beer.
I’ve known a lot of people who drank to much beer and crashed their car and nearly died and a few who did die.
I’ve never known anyone who smoked too much weed and crashed anything.
Legalize pot, liscense the growers and retailers, and tax the shitt out of it.
Ok Sol, we are going to play the bias game?
Well, obviously all your sources are biased because they want to legalize marijuana drug use…
Give me a break.
Once again, the DEA was quoting other sources, the DEA was not the source.
So constantly saying that the DEA is biased is getting rather old.
well, Nathan, because laid down next to Mayo Clinic, and Cancer centers, DEA propaganda looks foolish too!! Just because it comes from the Guvment, doesnt mean it is right, true, or even accurate…
The one thing all of the web sites agree on, is that medical use of MJ can and does have effects on reaction timing… and you shouldnt drive… just like taking Nyquil!! LOL
Ok, those are your sources, agreed, mine say different. This is a strawman argument meant to be another reason to put me in jail and take my money.
Nathan – Check this out:
http://www.medmjscience.org/
This long-awaited study was commissioned by the White House and Drug Czar Barry McCaffrey. In short, the report verifies that marijuana does have medical benefit, and argues that it should be made available to patients who could benefit from its use now.
All the potheads fighting for their right to puff. :D
I think that the THC is available in the pharmaceutical controlled form, people just want to get in a drug induced stupor whether they need it for health reasons or not.
A lot of people are known drug abusers of all kinds.
Marijuana is no exception.
Those WONDERFUL M J Brownies are a real life saver when you are experiencing the gut wrenching after effects of chemo therapy… like I did for 7 months back in 2004… If not for the brownies, chemo would have been much worse, and would have probably forced me to not work while I was doing Chemo!!
I say bring it on legally!! It can help SO MANY people… and at such a less cost than Big Pharma drugs!!
in addition-
Of all the people I knew who smoked pot on a regular basis; they all eventually grew up, got responsible, and quit smoking pot without a problem.
Actually, Pleefer, its just another excuse for the Reich Wing to play Gestapo, and walk all over us with yet another Health Care denier program… The Reich Wing does NOT want a healthy citizenry…
I bet some eat marijuana or hashish brownies whether they are sick or not.
Not a comforting thought, Chas in a stupor driving down the road to get to his job.
The Health Nazi’s even have a LOGO….
It is a Cadeuseus, with a Swazitika in the middle of it!! LOL
Thats why the Cancer Center got me the brownies, Regular!! So I wouldnt have to take high priced, over rated opiates, and yet I could still function…. Although I did NOT drive when eating the brownies.. anymore than I would after taking Nyquil, or a good stiff scotch and water…
Nathan – This may interest you as well.
http://www.webmd.com/news/20030829/medical-marijuana-slowly-gains-ground
Medical Marijuana Slowly Gains Ground
Clinical Studies Begin to Replace Emotion with Evidence
By Daniel J. DeNoon
WebMD Medical News
GOOD one TDT!! Excellent!!
Nathan,
for starters
Surgical Acute Pain
Chronic Pain
Migraine Headaches
Chemotherapy patients, especially those being treated for the mucositis, nausea, and anorexia.
Patients with spinal cord injury, peripheral neuropathic pain, or central poststroke pain.
AIDS patients with cachexia, AIDS neuropathy, or any significant pain problem.
Chemotherapy-Induced Nausea and Vomiting
WASTING SYNDROME AND APPETITE STIMULATION
Malnutrition in HIV-Infected Patients
Malnutrition in Cancer Patients
Anorexia Nervosa
NEUROLOGICAL DISORDERS
Muscle Spasticity
Multiple Sclerosis
Spinal Cord Injury
Movement Disorders
Dystonia
Huntington’s Disease
Parkinson’s Disease
Tourette’s Syndrome
Epilepsy
GLAUCOMA
http://www.nap.edu/html/marimed/ch4.html
Chas,
If you actually read the report, all it says is that clinical trials should be used to truly test the effects of marijuana as a medical treatment.
The little summary you quoted was that of the web page you linked to, not the report.
Not Chas, TDT.
Nathan
Posted February 13, 2008 at 1:47 pm | Permalink
Ok Sol, we are going to play the bias game?
Well, obviously all your sources are biased because they want to legalize marijuana drug use…
Give me a break.
Once again, the DEA was quoting other sources, the DEA was not the source.
So constantly saying that the DEA is biased is getting rather old.
**********************************************
Nathan, don’t be thick. The Dr.s stand to make no profit from this.
The DEA would lose capruted money, staffing and funding if MJ were legalized.
You wiffed on that one scooter.
If we, as a society, can get over the “Reefer Madness” mentality, and let responsible studies go forward, then we, as a society, by and through our elected representatives might be able to arrive at an appropriate policy on the medical use of marijuana.
TDT,
Are you even reading the things you are posting?
All they are saying is that more research should be done, not proof that marijuana should be used as a medicine.
Fine, I agree. Lets do some more research.
Sol,
What about the Doctors in the studies the DEA cited?
What part of this are you not grasping? You keep saying the DEA is biased, yet all the DEA was doing was compiling different sources into one fact sheet.
What is your problem with those sources?
I want you idjiated guvmunt types out of my life, out of my home. You want to feel important? Go pick up litter or help an old lady across the street.
Easy one for you Nathan. Would the DEA stand to lose money if MJ were legal?
Sol,
Are you even stopping to read what you post?
That link was to the same book which was referenced earlier.
It is not proof of anything, it is simply an analysis of the status quo.
If you read the first part talking about the analgesic effect, it is talking about how bad the studies have been…etc. Not proof.
Yet you list off all those things as if her book was proof of medical marijuana helping them.
Pleefer,
What does that have to do with medical marijuana?
Are we talking about legalizing the drug for medical purposes? Sounds like you are arguing for complete legalization.
Red Herring anyone?
I’ll guarantee that if this world HAD to take a puff daily, there wouldn’t be any friggin wars over nothing anymore. You thought-cops are always looking for ways to make yourselves feel right and powerful and all of us are getting tired of it.
The job of DEA is to enforce the existing laws, regardless of how ill conceived these may seem to some. Thus, there will be some bias by the DEA in its presentation and selection of sources, even if unconscious, in favor of the status quo ante. Similarly, there will be bias, even unconscious, by those arguing the other side, and their selection of sources, to change things.
Let there be the studies, with the findings guiding future policy and statutes in this area. It seems to me at present there are developing valid arguments in favor medicinal benefits to the use of marijuana; some of the arguments Nathan has made about the dangers of smoking it are countered by the brownies; similarly, any drug has side effects, even those which are “legal”, and cautions given about their use should be heeded.
Nope, never smoked it. Had three roommates in college that would use it recreationally, and, from this, discovered that I had an allergy to the smoke resulting from the burning of the same which, had I partaken, would have likely countered any enjoyment resulting therefrom.
Reggie,
“I think that the THC is available in the pharmaceutical controlled form,”
It’s called Marinol, but due to its oil base, it causes as much nausea as it cures, and the THC level is too low to deal with pain. Further, doctors put their licenses on the line whenever they prescribe it, so getting it at all, let alone enough to actually be effective is nearly impossible.
Sol,
The DEA uses it’s funding to further their fight on drugs. They don’t get to put it in some fancy bank account and give everyone a pay raise so they are all getting rich off the drug war.
So what does money have to do with their quoting sources which show the harm from marijuana?
And actually, I’d be willing to bet that instead of it causing “mental defects”, it actually enhances thinking. Which is what you weirdo’s do not want from the populace.
Nathan, I bet 99.9 percent of Pro Weed Crowd want Pot legalized for recreational purposes, not medical purposes. As long as they can get that squint-eyed high followed by the munchies – they’re cool.
Pot heads, the weak and the willing.
Pleefer,
Is there any reasonable thing the government should do to protect us?
Like keep lead out of toys for children? Or are the thought police going too far in controling you with that too?
Blunt up Jed, :D
Sounds like you’ve toked more than your share of pot.
So many lawbreakers on this thread. :D
Pleefer,
I have met several “former” pot heads in the military.
I have yet to meet more than 10% of them who are actually smart. Most still look, act, and talk like they are stoned.
If you want to sit around and kill brain cells, be my guest.
Tell you what, get a plastic bag, some spray paint and huff away. It might just help you.
Nathan,
Are you being thick on purpose? Have you ever worked within a budget professionally? Never enough. With more funding, you can do more. If the DEA was no longer fighting the most widely used recreational drug in America, they would not be able to justify their budget and would lose money.
Given this, do you think that they would be selective in whom the source?
Pretty easy.
So once again, would the DEA lose money? Hint, I already answered it for you above.
Regular,
How many prescriptions are you currently on? Why don’t you not take them for a week. Or are you weak and willing as well?
Nathan,
Wine doesn’t kill brain cells? You seem to have no problem with that.
Sol,
So do you also believe the same thing about those researching Global Warming too?
All biased, right? Just want more money and funding, right? So you don’t believe them do you?
Sol,
I am not worried about the one glass of wine I have a month killing my brain cells.
There is a huge difference in how alcohol interacts with the body and other drugs do.
If they were the same, why not advocate medical drinking instead of medical marijuana?
None of my prescriptions are narcotics or will induce me into a stupor. They are anti-inflammatory mostly.
I will go see the Doc for muscle relaxants if I get massive back spasms – (usually my whole back), but won’t ask for any pain meds – I don’t like the way they make me feel.
I would love to take my meds only for a week, if my medical conditions would go away, unfortunately , permanent injury means just that – permanent.
Reggie,
I smoked it occasionally in my youth, but circumstances forced me to quit about 25yrs ago.
Cost or incarceration Jed? :)
Why can’t you answer the question Nathan?
Global Warming research? You bet your ass they are after funding. Both those claiming that it is manmade and those trying to prove otherwise.
Back to the DEA. What do you think the career lifespan of a DEA official would be if s/he were to publish positive facts about a drug that they arrest people for? Common sense Nathan.
Drug Myths from Abroad: Leniency Is Dangerous, Not Compassionate
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19980901faresponse1425/herbert-d-kleber-mitchell-s-rosenthal/drug-myths-from-abroad-leniency-is-dangerous-not-compassionate.html
Herbert D. Kleber, a former Deputy Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, is Executive Vice President of the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse and Director of the Division on Substance Abuse Research at Columbia University’s College of Physicians and Surgeons. Mitchell S. Rosenthal is President of Phoenix House, a national network of drug treatment and prevention facilities.
I’m not sure, but I dont think Pot kills brain cells… that would be alcohol…
Nathan, we arent talking about toxic paint in kids’ toys here… we are talking about something to make people WELL … I have used it myself while on Chemo Therapy… worked a lot better than some of the others that made me even more nauseous than the Chemo!!
Chemo is not a fun thing to be on… They nearly have to kill ya to cure ya!! The M J brownies are a God-send when you are getting mainlined with Chemo drugs for 7+ months!!
This isnt one of your little nice neat all stacked up Lib/Con arguments here, Nathan… Your Right Wing leanings dont work on this one!! But keep trying… just makes you look more and more foolish… like you want to cause pain and suffering instead of limiting it!!
“None of my prescriptions are narcotics or will induce me into a stupor.”
Your own posts here suggest otherwise James.
“I am not worried about the one glass of wine I have a month killing my brain cells.”
Wow Nathan you’re a real hell raiser!
Actually Chas, Nathan has presented cogent argument. All I see on the defending side is serendipity along with curious experiential episodes.
Worst “trip” if you wanna call it that I ever had was from the perfectly legal, over the counter, Nykwill (intentionally misspelled for legal protection). That crap had me climbing the walls for about 6 hours.
JunioR thinks he knows something, of course this is the same guy who thinks I’m every other poster on this blog. Must be sad to be spaced out and paranoid like the juvenile JR.
Ahhh now you cite the CFR. You have ceased to be even a credible human now. And those that you met in the military, are they less of a hero than thou? I used to think (for 15 years) that I was a Republican, now I know you are all as dumb as the left. Most of my friends are musicians, engineers, chemists and a few doctors. And half of them smoke pot…for recreation the common factor amongst them is that they are all upper IQ’d and are very creative and are capable of reason and logical thought. I’d bet I’m not the only one who knows those type of folks. Makes you wonder who your doctor really is, don’t it?
Chas,
There is a huge difference in making people well and pain relief.
Are you claiming that marijuana made you well, or simply made you feel better?
There are other pain killers which are just as effective if not more than marijuana.
I am not advocating pain and suffering at all. If you can’t keep the discussion honest and insist upon inserting your attacks on me and making your strawman arguments, then don’t bother posting.
All you do is cause trouble Chas. Do you want me to go back to harassing you? It adds nothing to the discussion. So stop harassing me.
Nathan says >>>>
“If they were the same, why not advocate medical drinking instead of medical marijuana?”
As a matter of fact, WINE is now determined to be GREAT for people with cholesterol and blood pressure problems… So, Nathan, there IS INDEED medically prescribed drinking!! LOL
Gotcha!!
however, nathan, medical drinking is for a different kind of diagnosis than medical marijuana… ya know, like different drugs for different conditions?? keep up now…
JR,
Actually, I have not had any wine in the last month or two. But I did drink one pint of Boulevard Wheat last night.
I don’t think it killed many brain cells, but this conversation is feeling much worse.
Chas,
So, why didn’t you simply drink some wine for your chemo then?
Chas,
How dare you not let these people instruct you on how you are supposed to feel. They and only they have the answers. They were and still are right about the Sun revolving around the Earth. We could learn a lot from a dummy.
Regular
Posted February 13, 2008 at 1:49 pm | Permalink
All the potheads fighting for their right to puff.
I think that the THC is available in the pharmaceutical controlled form, people just want to get in a drug induced stupor whether they need it for health reasons or not.
A lot of people are known drug abusers of all kinds.
Marijuana is no exception.
_________________________________________________
Your right, they do have thc in prescription pill form, its called marinol, and no it does not get you high, that is the one thing learned from research that thc is only one of the chemicals that is responsible for the high acheived from smoking it, there is likley 2-5 other major chemicals in Marijuana that contribute to the high, thc is just one of them, thc alone does not get you high.
But Nathan, you ARE advocating pain and suffering, by your insistence on using other drugs that CAUSE more pain and suffering than medical MJ use…
And NOBODY is claiming that medical M J CURES anything… so knock off your straw man crap… It isnt said to CURE anything… it relieves REALLY BAD symptoms!! I dont think you have even read the lists…
Like I said, please stop trying to make this into a Lib/Con issue… cause it ISNT!!
LOL Pleefer!! :-) LOL
Reggie,
Watch out for those NSAIDS- they’re much more dangerous than prescription opiates! People die from them! Steroids (like prednezone) are almost as bad, but doctors are well aware of their effects and usually supply them in a limited descending dose course. Also, opiate based pain meds (hydrocodone, oxycodone etc.) taken as directed usually do knock you for a loop for a couple weeks, but then you return to feeling fairly normal minus the pain. As long as you take only what’s needed for pain, addiction shouldn’t be a problem.
Long-Term Marijuana Use Affects Memory
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/blaan060315.htm
“Compared to non-smokers, marijuana users performed worse in recall, recognition and executive functions of the brain.
In make decisions, long-term users showed a 70 percent impaired performance, compared to 55 percent for short-term users and eight percent for non-users.
In a test to remember a list of words that was read to them earlier, non-users remembered 12 of the 15 words, short-term users remember and average of nine words, and long-term users remembered an average of seven.
Frequent smokers performed worse on tests of cognitive abilities, including divided attention (ability to pay attention to more than one stimulus at a time) and verbal fluency (number of words generated within a time limit).”
Source: The study was published in the March 14, 2006, issue of Neurology, the scientific journal of the American Academy of Neurology.
Pfeefer, perhaps all the pot usage by birth parents explains the increase in childhood diseases such as asthma, autism and other diseases that have increased exponentially since the “drug culture” of the 60s.
This is another one of those cases that effects such a small portion of the population as to be negligible.
Like gay marriage.
The numbers of people that could use marijuana for medicinal purposes is incredibly small, but the do-gooders want to protect them from themselves.
So folks on chemotherapy want to ease their discomfort with a few tokes.
Go for it.
Why would anyone want to begrudge them a little relief?
It is not the “painkilling” aspect of marijuana that they seek – it is the ability to ease the discomfort – and no painkiller is going to do that.
Marijuana is the safest drug around. Safer than alcohol. Safer than prescription painkillers. Completely non-addictive.
Do-gooders – get over yourselves.
Again, I’ll put this up, to show that there are DEA agents that think these Nathan/Regular types are dumb sheep. Here
“perhaps all the pot usage by birth parents explains”
That is horseshit about ten feet deep.
Heh and irregular James scrambles for his anger management pills…
Ya know I wouldn’t begin to know how to cultivate or prepare marijuana. But if I wanted to do so, on my own time and bothering no one else, why shouldn’t I?
Chas,
I have yet to interject politics into this discussion. You are the one who mentioned my right leanings.
Now you say I am making this a lib/con issue?
Perhaps you don’t realize how screwed up smoking pot made you afterall.
This finally explains a few things about why you are so retarded when it comes to admitting you are wrong even when half a dozen people clearly explain to you why.
It all makes sense now.
Sorry Chas, I thought you were just being ignorant on purpose. Now I realize it is a marijuana induced stupidity.
The answer of course is that since people COULD grow and harvest and use medicinal marijuana, it is a hit on the pharmaceutical and medical industries.
Can’t have that!
Well time to go Nathan, the immature have arrived, WSClark, JR and Chas.
They will fill the blog with insult, personal attack, straw man arguments and won’t bring up any facts.
Note the amount of what I just posted about, will occur after this post. :)
NATHAN… I have been very specific about what form of medical MJ I was given… it did NOT involve smoking anything… I specifically said MJ Brownies!!! BROWNIES!!! They take a litle longer to WORK, but last for a number of hours, as opposed to smoking a joint, which works fairly quick, but only lasts maybe an hour and a half for any pain/nausea relief…
Now, do you suppose you can possibly stay ON POINT??? Or are you going to keep on posting away trying to support the all pervasive Guvment Agents??
Autism is directly related to those friggin vaccinations and the Thimerosol (mercury) that preserves them. If you’ll notice, autism usually becomes diagnosed at 18 months, right after the MMR vaccination! Read it and weep for those victims of YOUR LOVING GOVERNMENT.. Or get the DEA to refute it.
But that’s a whole other can of worms that pisses me off about you “Party Members”.
“They will fill the blog with insult, personal attack, straw man arguments and won’t bring up any facts.”
Well McCreepy, YOU suggested that marijuana use was responsible for birth defects, so why don’t YOU back it up?
Eh?
As for insults, without a doubt you are the main purveyor of unwarranted attacks on the Blog.
By far, oh Creepy One.
And, they’re OFFFF Nathan comes out with insulting personal attacks… because he has not been able to find anything to effectively argue his lame duck point… So, NOW he makes the totally FLAMING, LYING assertion that I am effected by using MEDICAL MARIJUANA during CANCER TREATMENT!!!!
What a SMALL, SHALLOW, and DEMENTED MIND you have Nathan!!
Would you want anybody to talk about YOUR Father that way, if HE had been through Hell and Back in Chemo Therapy???
Well, on second thought, maybe you would…
WHY do you want to keep the Ill patients in MUCH MORE pain and suffering than is necessary, just to keep Marijuana from being legalized for medical purposes???
I am telling you point blank… This is NOT a Lib/Con issue… By the way, Lib/Con is NOT a political moniker….
Shallow minded nitwits!!
re: VAcciens: (wiki) these proposals are controversial and the vaccine hypotheses have no convincing scientific evidence.[4]
Chas,
Please remove “smoking pot” and replace it with “eating marijuana”
Happy now?
Should I go slower for you, I know you are mentally challenged now, so I feel sorry for you and wouldn’t want you to not understand.
I used marijuana infrequently in college, what I learned from using it, is that it is safe, but also a powerful drug, and people should be educated about it, instead of condemning it. I had friends smoking entire joints, I thought they were stupid, I learned you can take one puff and it will do the same as smoking a whole joint, the only thing smoking a whole joint will do, is make you tired from decreasing the oxygen in your blood because you’ve bascially been inhaling smoke like you were in a house fire, and the people that do smoke too much are likley suffering the same effects of people who suffer from smoke inhalation from being caught in a house fire. We shouldn’t need to feel like it is bad because the government outlawed it years ago. I think most drugs should be illegal because they have all proven to be dangerous, but my point is not every drug is the same, and marijuana has proven to be safer as a recreational substance more than alcohol. On top of that, most drugs are man made, even alcohol has to go through several processes, its very rare that you find alcohol naturally in the wild, and its usually in small amounts from fermented fruit. The fact is, people will always look for substances to ingest that alter their mind, you eat food and it has chemical reactions in your blood stream that can alter your mind. If you eat healthy food, you will be in a better mood than eating junk food because the food you eat has an impact on your brain. Why do you think they call it the Food and Drug Administration, foods are drugs and are the safest drugs to use.
Nathan, explain something… This thread is about the medical use of marijuana…
WHY, oh WHY did you earlier bring up the tainted kids’ toys from china, and the leaded paint??? What POSSIBLE connection does that issue have to medical marijuana???
Your answer should be quite interesting….
Good call Regular. No point discussing anything with Chas.
Even if you were to hold a blue binder up in front of his face, he would say that he is waiting for a trusted person to come along and tell him it is a blue binder and not a pink folder like he was claiming.
Pointless.
Good Afternoon Chas and God Bless.
That is, the Judeo Christian God, who sent his only son, Jesus Christ, to die for our sins. The only way to your salvation. That is what us Christians believe.
“Please remove “smoking pot” and replace it with “eating marijuana”
Happy now?”
NO… because that is another one of your infamous straw men… You are reaching for anything you can to support your weakened case… And you still insist on throwing your also infamous insults on another poster that disagrees with you (vehemently in this case) and you cant refute!!
So, NO Nathan… SMOKING pot, and ingesting POT are not the same thing AT ALL!! Two different effects… Two different reasons… MUCH different!!
But, then you wouldnt know that, because you really have no clue what you are talking about!!
When giving the THC to the father, what effect does it have on conception or on the process of pregnancy?
When we treated the males with cannabinoids, some of them had significant problems in making the females pregnant.
And if those animals did make a pregnancy, many of the pups died as fetuses before the pregnancy went full term. In pups that survived birth, there was a significant increase in the number who died before they could eat on their own.
Once the THC-treated males impregnated the untreated females, the females had more difficulty maintaining the pregnancy and raising those pups to adulthood. We presume that the THC caused some defect in the father’s sperm, since that was the only way that these pups were exposed.
When we looked at the sons that did survive and grow up, they were as there fathers had been – less fertile and producing more losses in pregnancies which did occur. When we looked at chromosomes in the testes of both fathers and sons, we found abnormal chromosomes and birth defects in the third generation
http://members.optushome.com.au/~apfdfy/Unborn.html
You are convinced that marijuana had an effect on testes and the production on male sperm which brings about abnormal chromosome development?
Yes, we certainly have evidence that the chromosomes are no longer normal, that there is a higher frequency of clumping of chromosomes so that when the cell divides, two equal cells are not produced. We know that in some condition in humans and in animals this is associated with severe defects, such as mongolism, in which an extra chromosome is present. I’m not saying that mongolism is related to marijuana use, but it is certainly known that if the chromosomes are not splitting properly, you get severe consequences. We know that in the testes of treated mice and of their untreated sons we are getting abnormalities.
What effects do you see on the next generation when cabbaninoids are administered to the pregnant mother?
Fetuses are exposed to the various cannabinoids through the placenta, the organ that connects the fetal sac to the mother and through which nutrients flow to the fetus. We found two major effects of marijuana during mid-pregnancy. For one thing THC, the psycho-active or intoxicating agent in marijuana caused an abnormal number of fetal losses to the mother. There is evidence of a toxic effect on the fetus. The other thing is that both THC and CBN, a non-intoxicating chemical, reduce the amount of testosterone, the major male sex hormone, in male fetuses in the early period of development, when testosterone is critically important in all mammalian species during the prenatal period of time just as it is after puberty.
Off to be productive. :)
From 1984 and not from a medical journal.
Try, try again, oh Creepy One.
And what does that have to do with medicinal marijuana use?
It is highly unlikely that a terminally ill patient is looking to reproduce before expiration.
Reggie,
Remember when LSD was supposed to break your chromosomes and cause cancer and birth defects? A lot of propaganda gets published as pseudoscience. When it meets a legitimate peer review, then it might be worth listening to. Until then, it’s just one more piece of bullshit in an area already full of it.
Here you go WSClark, you can write the researcher and ask if she is qualified to speak on the matter.
Susan L. Dalterio, Ph.D. 9114 Welles Way, San Antonio, TX 78240 (512) 692-9139
I’m going to assume that Yahushua, who’s father gave us the plant, was probably a user of said medicine. Don’t throw your, again, holier-than-thou garbage religious talk out here. I am a real Christian who doesn’t judge anyone, you are a pretender.
Re: Nathan
Well, this is much better. Still doesn’t support the claim of 1 joint makes someone lose rationality and high, but let’s move on.
The DEA: The flaws of using the DEA as a source have already been pointed out, but Nathan also has some legitimate points here. The DEA did use some sources, and some of what they said is true, if probably incomplete. That being said, the explanation for why the DEA has posted this information is probably not justification of their budget. Sure, like any other organization public or private, the DEA will try to justify its budget. But, it does have a mission here, and that is to combat illegal drug use. So, of course the DEA is going to post information on its website discouraging marijuana use. Believe it or not folks, it’s their job.
Also, my layman’s understanding is that a lot of the evidence for the benefits of medical marijuana is at best equivicalble. However, the benefits for people on chemotherapy have, I think, been pretty well established. However, it is still controversial because the question of potential side effects verses benefits still does loom. Still, given the serious situation that these people find themselves in, I see little reason why medical marijuana should not be prescribed and allowed with prior benefit of doubt, and researched (particularly with regards to potential interactions with other medications a patient may be on).
Also, marijuana IS a gateway drug, in terms of the fact that marijuana use, especially by teenagers, is predictive of hard drug use later. However, there is a huge correlation verses causation issue here. For teenagers, alcohol and tobacco are also illegal drugs. Smoking marijuana indicates several things about a kid, a recklessness indicated by the willingness to assume the risks of illegal drug activity (even if s/he is not fully and maturely aware of all the risks), an interest in mind altering experiences, and probably a reduced ability or tendancy to resist peer pressure. Thus, of course a kid who uses marijuana, as is a kid who starts smoking or drinking, is more likely to escalate their use of illegal drugs, because they were willing to take the initial risk. That is NOT the same thing as saying that marijuana itself is a proximate cause of further illegal drug use. But it is, I am sure, a reliable predictor of such behavior and an indicator that something is wrong.
My own feelings about marijuana are divided. I think the efforts to restrict its use have been a near total failure. I think there have been some unfortunate effects of this. First of all, the potency of what is sold varies greatly, and some of what is sold DOES contain toxins (such as herbicides). Black market trade is unregulated trade. Also, in some cases, the nice hippy couple has been replaced by serious and nasty criminal enterprises who are much like some of the deadly and nasty moonshiners of the depression era. It seems to me that the best way to get some minimal control and to reduce the increasing risk of getting stuff off the dealer on the street is to legalize it, regulate it, and tax the hell out of it.
On the other hand. My own personal experience, quite separate and unsupported by research though it is, is that pot IS addictive, at least psychologically, and it does mess people up. However, I doubt it is worse, or even as bad, as alcohol or tobacco. The reason why I am a little torn about whether to legalize it, other than the fact that I do have a personal grudge against it (and since it is personal, that is all I will say about that), is that I am afraid even with high taxes and regulated content (good things) there will still be a considerable profit margin. Thus, I could see a number of farmers actually growing the crop instead of food crops. In other words, my question about legalizing marijuana is similar to my problem with ethanol or even feed grain. I see it as a potential waste of farmland.
Anyway, Nathan, your subsequent posts were much better than “nitwit”. Thanks for elevating your discussion.
“Here you go WSClark, you can write the researcher and ask if she is qualified to speak on the matter.”
That report was from 1984 – she is probably sitting back somewhere in California enjoying a toke, er, smoke.
Got anything more recent – like from the last DECADE or so?
I gotta say, that it’s not your farmland to decide if it would be a “waste”.
I think it should be legalized, but restricted like alcohol. Set an age limit in which its legal to purchase and use, heavily tax it. Treat the people who abuse it like they have a substance abuse problem because they do. I don’t understand why they don’t treat marijuana abuse seriously, some people even laugh at the idea that people need to be treated for using marijuana because most people generaly think its safe, well it is safe but people still abuse it. Junk food is safe, but people still abuse it, because the simple sugars digested in the body are converted into chemicals that act on the brain and produce a rush of energy while having painkilling effects, a lot of obese people have eating disorders because they eat only the food that makes them feel good, they really have a substance abuse problem. Should we out law food because it interacts with our brains?
When your down and you have a craving for choclate or a sugary snack, its because you wish to change your mood from the chemical interactions certain foods have with your brain. There are people addicted to McDonalds, that are obese, maybe we should treat them for substance abuse. It all comes down to responsibility, and this country seems to make laws to protect the irresponsible people while punishing the responsible people. Its called nanny laws.
I don’t think you should tax it heavily, but tax it on par with booze or cigs. Otherwise, I agree with you El.
As I’m writing this, “Nathan,” the big hand is on the 1 and the little hand is on the 4.
Like… what is the deal?!
Somebody waves a wand and all of a sudden people who smoke pot are no longer criminals. What’s it to you?!
Next to my tomato plants there’s a couple of marijuana plants in my backyard garden. What’s it to you?!
It’s winter and I have a few plants growing hydroponically in the basement. What’s it to you?!
Okay. You’re a twice-born Marine who’ll shoot anyone who happens to kill one of your dogs. I can live with that. Dress up with the garters required of your dress uniform and expect to shake hands with Jesus in the afterlife and keep your damned dogs in your backyard and we’ve got no problems. There’s nothing about you that matters to me.
But if there’s a marijuana plant in my back yard, you’ve got a voice?!
Get over yourself, “Nathan.”
You’re a pathetic excuse for a man.
You can’t be a man without your dogs or guns or “savior” or rants against your right-wingnut political philosophy.
And your garters.
“why not advocate medical drinking instead of medical marijuana?”
It IS advocated in many cases – especially with chemo and appetite. As with alcohol there can be medicinal uses, casual social uses, and abuse of the substance. And all gradations in between.
And I see Nathan rides off into another ecclesiological sunset, thinking he is victorius, because he has once again not answered a direct challenge, and failed to answer, and instead heaps up numerous stupid ad hominems…
When Nathan can elevate beyond that crock of garbage, perhaps he is worthy of having a discussion… but not until then!!
“Once the THC-treated males impregnated the untreated females, the females had more difficulty maintaining the pregnancy and raising those pups to adulthood.”
Nice try, Jamesy… Since when does ANY female dog raise pups to adulthood?? Or are you going to convince us that they are adults when they are weaned?? LOL
Nathan
Posted February 13, 2008 at 1:58 pm | Permalink
Chas,
If you actually read the report, all it says is that clinical trials should be used to truly test the effects of marijuana as a medical treatment.
The little summary you quoted was that of the web page you linked to, not the report.
Nathan, that was my point. Way up thread I made the point that when I did my speech on medicinal uses for marijuana, I had to reference Canadian studies because our country has been so emotional and stubborn about MJ that they won’t even research it for medicinal use. Therefore, you really can’t use U.S. studies to support your argument that there is no medicinal use for MJ. I hope you can follow that logic, but it makes sense. We need to start doing studies to truly see what the value of MJ is, rather than constantly trying to classify it as something it is not.
“Even if you were to hold a blue binder up in front of his face, he would say that he is waiting for a trusted person to come along and tell him it is a blue binder and not a pink folder like he was claiming.”
IF you are as sure about the folder being a folder as you are about your mis-information about medical MJ, we are all in trouble…
And Nathan, Why DID you bring up the tainted toys for kids earlier?? You never did tell us what that has to do with Medical MJ…. Or was that just another one of your now infamous attempts at diversion from the subject at hand??
I really would like to know what on earth tainted toys from China(a travesty in its own right) has to do with medical marijuana…
And, Nathan, looks like it is YOU that cant stay on point… not ME!! not today!!
And yes, that IS your particuclar Christian interpretation of God, now isnt it?? But, as always, that doesnt make your interpretation the only interpretation… the only one for YOU… but stop putting other people down because they dont share your particular, limited interpretation!!
Personally, my God is much bigger than that!!
BUT… THAT is MY interpretation!!
My bottom line on medical MJ – it should be the same as medical codeine, medical heroin, medical cocaine, etc etc etc.
BETWEEN ME AND MY DOCTOR!
Aaaamen Ben!!
ksagnostic
Posted February 13, 2008 at 11:14 am | Permalink
“‘TDT,
‘The difference is that I can enjoy a nice glass of wine with my meal without getting drunk or losing my reasoning.’
Whoa there ksagnostic, I didn’t post that, Nathan did.”
I was clear on that. I quoted Nathan’s entire post, including his address to you. .
“I gotta say, that it’s not your farmland to decide if it would be a ‘waste’.”
Did I say it was? Still, actions have consequences.
And by the way, I am still free to have my opinion on what is a less wasteful use of farmland. You are also talking about one of the most regulated and subsidized industries in America.
I meant nothing by that remark Agnostic, I just chimed in with that…
I did mean to correct myself earlier up there, I meant that I felt like how I thought a Christian was supposed to be like. But I cannot claim to be a Christian as it is portrayed in this day and age. It seems to me everything The Christ taught is being twisted and even reversed and it scares and saddens me. So I’ll say that I’m a follower of The Christ’s philosophies and not a shopper of GOD-MART or The JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTORE Inc.
This is too darn funny. nathan didn’t you admit you had never smoked a joint? Yet all of us here on this board seem to have had, and we’re ALL telling you, it aint freaking harmful, the DEA is full of SPIT.
Unless you seem to think we’re all sitting around the keyboard high because we were SO harmed by it, you better put up a better fight.
You’re quoting nothing valid. I think you know it. I know its hard for you to believe but sometimes our government just screws with us.
The drug companies make money off of marijuana being illegal. That’s it.
Your glass o wine is far worse than a toke.
I agree PMama… Gee, if I was still high, that was one heck of a brownie… but yet, Nathan makes the allegation I am sitting here typing, and “high” — I guess Nathan doesnt understand what LYING is??
Agnostic, I must have skipped over the paragraph about the “gateway drug” business. I completely and unequivocally disagree with that. I’ve been out to a few Western Kansas Catholic Hoe-Downs and it isn’t a big deal to dump copious amounts of booze down a 12 year old’s throat. Drinking is the “gateway drug” if it isn’t a candy bar. I see people’s ignorance of the marijuana high as laughable. They’ve all seen “Reefer Madness” and truly believe the party-scene’s in that propoganda piece is how it is. The people shaking and laughing like lunatics and the long descent into madness! Good grief. I would much rather have a good in-depth conversation with a person who is high off pot than try and talk with some slobbering, stumbling drunk. And there are a great deal more mean-drunks that want to “kick someone’s ass” than there are mean-stoners. I prefer laid back folks who act to high strung and drunk meat-heads who just react.
In fact, you’ll find that most people who have ever used pot, have used alcohol first. Alcohol is in fact the gateway drug, but people oversee this from accepting that it is the norm of our society and that it is not a drug. A drug is anything people take to alter their state of mind. Alcohol is in fact poision, it is one of the most dangerous drugs, the fact should be clear that it is, when anyone who has been drunk before wakes up in the morning feeling half dead from a hangover. Thats because your body is in fact physically injured from drinking alcohol and has to go through a healing process. marijuana on the other hand is not a poison, it is a drug of course, but it does no lasting damadge to your body unless you smoke it. Even then there is no withdrawal people go through when they stop using marijuana. People claim there is a withdrawal, but a withdrawal is the case if there is physical dependancy, and marijuana dosen’t cause physcial dependancy, some people might feel there addicted, but that is from the mental aspect of substance abuse.
“There are other drugs which can help people with pain, other than marijuana,”
How many of these medications cost a few pennies a day or less?
“thus there is no reason to legalize it other than your wanting to get high or allow others to do so.”
Except in this country, you need a reason to make something illegal, not a reason to make something legal. Marijuana should be legal unless you can show me how keeping a few plants and smoking a joint in front of Grey’s Anatomy every thursday is causing harm to society.
(note: i live on campus, so I don’t actually keep plants or smoke in here. Don’t go nuts.)
Here’s an example of one of the biases in your DEA links: Marijuana and emergency room visits. No one has ever died from ingesting pot. Never. Ever. However, people end up in the ER high because of things like PANIC ATTACKS (oh my god I’m so high i think my weed was laced dude my parents are gonna kill me!) or doing stupid shit that teenagers do when drunk or even completely sober.
But how many people have died of alcohol poisoning?
There IS no physical dependency on marijuana when used in a medical situation… I was using the brownies for 5+ months for nausea and pain, while doing Chemo therapy… I have had NO cravings for it since… And I dont foresee any cravings for it any time in the future… MOST pot users… even for the pleasure crowd… simply dont use enough of it to have anything even resembling a physical addiction… or dependency… Now, TOBACCO, thats entirely different!! Quitting smoking is nearly as difficult as getting off of heroin… ANY drug treatment center can tell you that… just call them…
Tara — alcohol poisoning?? Quite a few… I have had funerals for a few dozen such people who were poisoned with alcohol, and had power line poles suddenly jump in front of their vehicles travelling at 90+ MPH!! Yep, booze kills… and rather effectively!!
“I have had NO cravings for it since…”
I do!!!!!!! Me!!!!!!!!! Me!!!!!!!!!!! Me!!!!!!!!!!
Ya’ got any leftover brownies, Chas?
Aw, come on, give me some, please!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry Clark… they only gave me 4 per week!! LOL
They used fake sugar in them… yuck!! So they werent all that good… except they did take away that horrible gut wrenching nausea caused by the Chemo drugs… For that I was most grateful!!
Dang……………………………..
Actually, Chas, I applaud the fact that you have recover from cancer and that you were open-minded enough to seek relief from chemo side effects with “brownies.”
My mother died after a twenty year battle with cancer. She stopped chemo because of the side effects.
Perhaps if she had been more receptive to the use of marijuana, she would have lived longer.
And more comfortably.
No sob story, just a personal fact.
Thanks Clark… I still have another year to go before they will say I am “cancer free” They have a 5 year thing… If you survive 5 years, with no new occurrence, then they say you are cancer free… Currently, I am just in “remission”… But no treatments, and no drugs… just 6 month blood work, to do all of the necessary checks… Last one only shows one small glitch… it comes and goes… so, still in remission!!
Again, Thanks!!
They do watch me real close… diabetes, thyroid malfunction, sister died from pancreatic cancer, and brother from lung cancer… So, they watch me like a hawk!! Diet, drugs, x-rays, heart echo’s etc. are all par for the course… And when the neuropathy hides for even a few days, it is heavenly!! LOL
Stay with it, Chas, you WILL beat this……..
I will pray for you, however.
I have nearly forgotten what it feels like to live “pain free” — If I woke up without pain, I might panic!! LOL
Hey, beating it gives me a purpose for living!! LOL Like I always tell others, I cant let IT control me, or IT wins… You should see the looks on peoples’ faces when I say that!!
Thanks Clark… prayers are always welcome!!
“Agnostic, I must have skipped over the paragraph about the “gateway drug” business. I completely and unequivocally disagree with that.”
Please go back and reread what I said. I explained, at some length, that marijuana is a gateway drug in much the same way that alcohol and cigarettes are gateway drugs. I do not believe that the argument that marijuana somehow causes people to take harder drugs is valid. Someone who is willing to smoke marijuana as a kid, or take a drink, or smoke a cigarette, is more likely to engage in other drugs simply because they were willing to take the first step. It’s the person, not the drug.
So to be clear. I don’t think marijuana’s status as a “gateway drug” is a valid argument for continuing to make it illegal.
chas, google turmeric, and do some research on it, I use it almost every day to spice up my food.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=78
Yep, I have used that too, W. Eleph.
I also like garlic, and a little bit of Red Cajun pepper occasionally!!
why is it illegal in the 1st place.
Regular
Posted February 13, 2008 at 3:00 pm | Permalink
When giving the THC to the father, what effect does it have on conception or on the process of pregnancy?
Regular, I just love how you advocate for women. Nice to know that I can smoke as much as I want, but you guys can’t. Gotta love being a woman!!
And I really hope you guys can have a sense of humor about this post.
Nathan [troll? for real???]
Posted February 13, 2008 at 1:16 pm
“Lets look at some facts about Marijuana:
http://www.dea.gov/ongoing/marijuana.html”
/all credibility shot to HELL/
Sorta like getting the “facts” on African-American history from the KKK.
Eh?
43 Trackbacks
reliable sites to buy steroids…
Forms of testosterone for human administration currently available in North America include injectable (such as testosterone cypionate…
community health nurses association of canada…
…
pancreatic cancer symptoms…
Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes. This article will also explain why natural progesterone is the best treatment, and a much better choice…
Pregnancy Statistics…
I love the idea of being pregnant and cant wait for this little one to be out of me hahaha!…
Jessie…
thanks to help us to think in other directions….
healthy eating schedule…
Nice Post… do you know what is the first? i`ve the new album at my blog http://sumpit.info…
Legalize Gay Marriage…
Reading the blog and the otherposts I see things that are close to home. I have added you to my digg account for bookmarking….
Ass Thick Ass Babes Kick Ass…
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view…
quick weight loss diet plan…
) Some individuals or companies have abused the TrackBack feature to insert spam links on some blogs (see sping).A Trackback is one…
asthma attack treatment…
Very interesting post. A little bit confusing, but still ok….
Teen Girls Teen Titans Raven Tiffany Teen…
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view…
Daria Polish Werbowy…
I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read….
Randy…
Just wanted to drop a note to let you know what a great site you have. It is a great resource and a great place to drop by….
natural cures for weight loss…
Very interesting post. A little bit confusing, but still ok. do you know what is the first? i`ve the new album at my blog…
healthy eating for teens…
Nice Post… do you know what is the first? i`ve the new album at my blog http://sumpit.info…
capsule medical…
For flexible borescopes, articulation mechanism components, range of articulation, field of view and angles of view of the objective…
Dallas…
This enables authors to keep track of who is linking to, or referring to their articles. The TrackBack specification was created by Six…
Louis…
I have seen many sites before and most of them do not look this good. I cannot wait to let my friends know about this site. Thanks for the excellent content….
Kalina…
I just wanted to tell you that your site is really awesome and is of a fantastic quality. The content is great and I will be returning….
Garen Fountain…
I love that to, but my hubby doesnt want it, that is really to bad….
Jessie…
I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read….
Skin Care Herbs…
Thanks for this post!…
Jessie…
Thought provoking post. Very interesting items and have enjoyed immensely. Please visit my site also….
pills for better sex…
Nice Post… do you know what is the first? i`ve the new album at my blog http://sumpit.info…
Whole Life Insurance Explained…
This article sounds well, but how everything is related together?…
Chubby Grannies Chubby Blonde Mature Chubby Mature Thumbs…
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view…
information loss surgery weight…
I found your site via Google while searching for %KEYWORD% and your post regarding %TITLE% looks very interesting to me….
action figure wrestling ring…
Man i love reading your blog, interesting posts !…
Help Herb Loss Weight…
‘%KEYWORD%’ and more about weight loss…
Jessie…
Such a fun and informative blog! Please visit my site when you can….
Eric…
Man i just love your blog, keep the cool posts comin…..
green guy adult link…
This enables authors to keep track of who is linking to, or referring…
antonio banderas music…
I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read….
ben foster height…
I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read….
Asthma Research…
I enjoyed reading your blog. What a great thing it is to be able to share information like this on the Internet….
Diabetes Alternative Medicine…
I enjoyed reading your blog. It is so interesting reading other peoples personal take on a subject….
Reduce Gas In Dogs…
I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting….
College Funding For Adults…
Hi – just wanted to say good design and blog -…
Adult Baby Dress…
I enjoyed reading your blog. It is so interesting reading other peoples personal take on a subject….
smart content delivery…
…
Allergy To Rose Defense…
Thanks for this post!…
Vanna White…
Man i love reading your blog, interesting posts !…
California Company Health Insurance…
Still, I believe some people (like me) think in different way regarding this topic…