A new book, “The Commission: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation,†by New York Times reporter Philip Shenon, sets out to reveal what the official Sept. 11 commission report left out: evidence of incompetence at the highest levels of government.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice comes in for harsh criticism. “Whatever her job title, Rice seemed uninterested in actually advising the president,†Shenon writes. “Instead, she wanted to be his closest confidante — specifically on foreign policy — and to simply translate his words into action.â€
And New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani got kid-gloves treatment from the commission because of his hero status despite evidence that he failed to prepare New York for a terrorist attack.
142 Comments
Incompetence? This thing was a joke from its onset. And I told you so. This is just the tip of the iceberg and they are trying to paint it as incompetence?
This stuff is OLD news to people that pay attention.
“evidence of incompetence at the highest levels of government.”
I think that will be the overall lasting legacy of the bush administration.
Ksgrm,
Have been hearing this guy all week on various NPR shows. Still plan to get the book, read it, and loan it to you. At the same time will loan you the book Administration of Torture. Both just makes one real proud of this country.
It is way past time for a change in Washington.
Sort of like when Bill Clinton couldn’t be reached when Osama Bin Laden was in direct line of fire of a U.S. strike force - probably while Clinton was getting serviced by Monica.
Who knows, 911 may have never happened all because no one in the Clinton White House could be reached or make a decision that would have saved thousands of lives.
If I remember right, the suicide pilots, led by Mohammed Atta, came to the US about 2 years prior to the attack. They entered this country with false passports easily because this country was quite lax about security. Yet…people will blame Bush for the events that happened even before he was elected. Quite the spin there.
More denial on the left. If it makes you feel good to blame Bush - go for it. When you want to really face the truth read something written by someone who has an opinion opposite from you. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.
I’m sure this doesn’t mean a damned thing.
Grm & Irregular,
Clinton told the incoming Bush whitehouse the danger of Bin Laden. They were not at all interested in listening. You guys are just frightening in regard to your partisan stupidity. I’ll give my books to someone who has something resembling an open mind. Good luck with your “informed” choices.
And the FBI still doesn’t list Bin Laden as a suspect in 9-11.
But who cares? Right? At least someone’s to blame.
A cruse missile gyro takes some time to spin up, notification of a locate then setting guidance to hit the mark. WE had no assets in Afghanistan. so information on Bin Laden’s location took several hours if not days to reach Washington. So there was no way to immediately strike till the predators were used and then CIA and the DOD was arguing over who could authorize a strike and whom would take the blame if it failed. Clinton wanted a small mission to take out Bin Laden but the pentagon kept telling him it would take a major ground operation to do it. Richard Clarke kept suggesting that we back the Northern alliance and have them do it. But the idea kept being stonewalled by the military and state.
Now as to Bush, yes 9-11 was under way before he took office, the terrorists were here and would have been caught had not Congress cut funding to INS for a program that would do a in depth investigate of all vise applicants. Saying that the money invested in such a program was a waste. The only real role that the Bush Administration played was they dismissed the concerns of Clarke and Tenet. And cut funding for anti-terrorism. Telling both that they should be concentrating on the bigger fish like Saddam.
bush took America to war in Iraq — the wrong country! Yes, he was given permission from most people on all sides to use force in Iraq IF NECESSARY. It wasn’t, and he did it anyway. He made up his reasons and now they are coming to light. FINALLY! Because smarter people than bush could ever be saw through it even back then.
Of course, on a positive side, the little minded bush is sure making his Daddy look smarter!
At least my man Willie has a clue, but he just smokes pot huh?
Steven, you still have my address, don’t you?
Regular notes:
“Sort of like when Bill Clinton couldn’t be reached when Osama Bin Laden was in direct line of fire of a U.S. strike force - probably while Clinton was getting serviced by Monica.”
=====================================
And you would know this how?? Did you have a private web cam linked to the Oval Office??
Good link on Willie, Pleefer!!
Of course, maybe the Twin Towers + 1 came down because of an Insurance Scam, and not some deep dark, foreign conspiracy plot??
Still, if it was covered up, it would be HUGE news!! Keep on Lookin for truth out there!!
Larry Silverstein did get billions off of it and didn’t have to pay the 100+million to remove that nasty asbestos.
Qui Bono?
Maybe Alex Jones is just smelling the “wrong” cover-up, eh Pleefer??
I was in New Mexico on 9/11 — Just started a new Interim on 9/09… Very early on 9/11 my daughter called from Illinois… She said, Dad, we’ve been attacked!! Turn on CNN Quick!!
So I did… and a few minutes later, the SECOND tower came down… I remember sitting in my recliner chair… dumbfounded… watching the sheer pandamonium and terror…
I remember saying: I hope George Bush isnt behind this… But if he is, I hope they put him away for LIFE!!
I’m still not sure why I said that… But the more I have thought about it, the more I remembered what was being said when OK City happened… Nearly ALL of the MSM was saying it looked like a Muslim Terrorist Attack!! I recall my spouse saying, Yea, right… more like one of those Militia Groups gone wild because of Ruby Ridge or Waco!!
And SHE was right on the money!!
Maybe that’s why I thought BushCo when the towers fell… I am still not sure why I said what I did on that horrible morning!!
911 is a result of the Clinton administration paying paddy cake with the terrorists. Articles from the New York Times are not always true. They leave out the full stories.
Shortly after OK City, I managed to get my hands on a copy of The Turner Diaries…. If you have never read that book, now might be a good time for it… It is now Lent, and a great time for reflection and meditation… even on things not totally spiritual…
george?? what kool aid you drinking?? WHO was President on 9/11?? and for how long??
Clue — It wasnt Bill Clinton!! LOL
Formula for selling book for NYT writer.
1. Write book.
2. Include scathing OPINION about conservative.
3. Release the scathing OPINION as teaser.
4. Minion media pick up teaser and publish.
5. Liberals read teaser, have their OPINIONS validated.
6. Liberals buy book.
7. NYT writer puts money in pocket as savings for insurance against next round of NYT layoffs.
Now I have seen everything. You are claiming that the president was “behind” the senseless attacks on the World Trade Towers and the Pentagon? Clue for you, Chas…the preparations and planning for it took place during the Clinton Administration. How are you going to blame Bush for that?
Before you go off on a tirade like Steve did above about partisan stupidity, realize I am not a supporter of GW and his insane policies. But, your comments about him being somehow BEHIND this attack makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Chas I am not sure why you would have said that either? Up till then Bush had a great start at being a mediocre President. OKC: My mother had came over to watch the kids went I would go to work. We got were we would watch the O.J. trial together until I would leave. When CNN broke in and showed the first video from OKC I knew it had been a bomb. My second thought? Middle Eastern terrorists, until then I never connected Ruby Ridge and Waco being on the same day of the year.
9-11 I was so dumb struck I did not know what to think.
Taz, READ what I said… Instead of what you WANT it to say?? Please??
So, by that same reasoning, we can claim that Clinton was ‘behind’ the OKC bombings? That he was somehow responsible for that because he was president at the time?
These comments posted above have absolutely no basis in reality. I have heard of partisan blinders, but this is beyond ridiculous.
you wrote: “I remember saying: I hope George Bush isnt behind this… But if he is, I hope they put him away for LIFE”
I did read it. How are you going to spin this one?
I ALSO remembered what an old friend once told me who worked in Avionics for an Air line… He told me once how Passenger planes could be flown by remote control, in case something happened to the Pilot and Crew during a flight… MANY thoughts were flying by MANY people on that horrible September morning!!
“Bill Clinton couldn’t be reached.”
The president is surrounded by Secret Service 24-7.
How could he not be reached?
This sounds like evidence based on a made-for-TV movie by the Disney Channel (ABC) . . .
The simple fact is that BushCo. wasn’t worried about terrorism because “that was a Clinton thing.”
They blew it. If this had happened when Clinton was reading My Pet Goat to school kids in Florida, you reichwingers would have wanted him impeached . . .
What is being set up is that “we nuts” are calling for a new investigation and now, they are portraying it as mere “incompetence” and will give us a new, improved “investigation” with the same outcome. These devils are so transparent. And as far as OKC goes, there are way too many unanswered questions for that as well. Way too many “reliable sources” tell a way different story. The same company “Controlled Demolitions Inc.” that disposed of the WTC did the same for the Murrah Bldg. And all of the remains of the Murrah Bldg are buried and under armed guard today. We “nuts” think that OKC was a “trial run” for the big show of “shock and awe”.
Chas I am curious, what did you know or hear that would have taken your mind in that direction? I know what I say about the Bush administration is hard to accept with the Neoconservatives wanting to install a society inspired by Leo Strauss and Trotsky. But that is after several years of on the face of it evidence and reading up on it. Other then the 2000 election until 2003 I had not heard anything to point to Bush being a evil man?
There are several conspiracy theories that claim Timothy McVeigh was not actually executed… but rather, “put to sleep” and later revived, and smuggled out of the country… They say Ashcroft and Rumsfeld had a part in that little trick… Who knows?? Anything could happen!!
Secret Service doesn’t stand outside every door. And if Clinton stated or had arranged to have his phone calls forwarded to his Chief of Staff or another person, then he couldn’t be reached unless by courier.
The decision to made was immediate and couldn’t wait for a courier with a written message as the contact in Afghanistan was on a Satellite phone awaiting orders.
The mission to kill Osama Bin Laden was aborted, due to lack of any one capable of making a decision.
“Sort of like when Bill Clinton couldn’t be reached when Osama Bin Laden was in direct line of fire of a U.S. strike force - probably while Clinton was getting serviced by Monica.”
From this sterling piece of your continuing revisionist history to your daily name calling and innuendo spreading hypocrisy — your just jealous she was servicing him and not you —- lip balm, need pads at the ready?
To some extent, I DO blame Bill Clinton for the OK City bombing.
Hate groups and their terrorist spawn are given far too much leniency by federal law enforcement . . . it they’re white and “right” that is.
If they’re black (Black Panthers) or left (the Weathermen), they get shot in their beds.
The McVeigh story got strted because some reported wrote that McVeigh’s eyes never closed when he was “executed” by lethal injection… that he just stared at the ceiling… Some people smell conspiracy in a cat litter box!!
Thats funny, cause I always thought the litter box smell was from something different from conspiracy!! LOL
it was aborted because they (CIA - State Department) had evidence that a saudi prince was at the site — and they didn’t want to accidently want to kill a royal —-
…. keep spreading your lies though, there will always be someone to sweep up and change your loaded diaper …
Well, that is certainly a possibility CapN…
Regular–
What am I going to ask?
C’mon. Think real hard . . . what would a thinking reader want after you make this ridiculous claim twice and your source has been called into question?
Since you’re probably too obtuse to get it, how about a link?
And not to a made-for-TV movie either . . .
CapN… I know the place where they rented that Ryder Truck for the OKC bombing… It had a sort of reputation for being sort of “militia minded” as far as the folks who ran that outfit… So, who knows what happened behind the scenes??
In case anyone is running low, I heard that tin foil is on sale at Dillons.
I learned from the best CapnAmerica - you.
I learned that one doesn’t need sources to make accusations against a President. You know, like all the things that Bush is accused of without proof.
How does the medicine taste?
What do you want sourced?
I’ll provide it.
That BushCo. thought terrorism was a “Clinton thing?”
Quoted in Newsweek from former Nat’l Security Advisor Sandy Berger . . .
Writer Dog — I am not totally sure… I know Bush was an opportunist, from his years as TX governor, and as owner of the Rangers baseball team, and how he managed to get their Stadium built…
Other than that, I didnt trust the people he had surrounding him… Cheney, Rice, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, others… The whole administration didnt look right from the very beginning!!
Not to mention that Daddy Bush had once been the director of the CIA…
Bottom line?? Just a general feeling, Writer Dog
Capt, not to excuse them but the Bush administration was full of Cold war chicken hawks, they could not wrap their heads around anything less then a country sized threat. To a certain degree you are correct though, Bush CO. automatically dismissed anything Clinton. They already had the Bush Doctrine mindset upon entering office. Rice citied the Clinton Administration for their foreign policies in Foreign affairs magazine before she was even approached for National security advisor as being weak and not reflecting the stance of the lone super power. G.W total resented Clinton whom he saw as a “flower child” and a draft dodger stealing the White House from his father whom was a war hero. Cheney and Rumsfield, well their just nuts.
Also, Writer Dog, an old friend of my, a Republican Senator, called me later on 9/11 and told me to make sure I had my financial papers in good shape… (I didnt at that point, due to a lot of medical expenses) — Turned out that it DID make a difference in the two years following 9/11 –
“Clinton wasn’t available for an airstrike on bin Laden.”
Source?
Regular’s ass . . .
OK people as far as conspiracy theories it has been established that it is almost human nature to want to believe when something really horrible happens that it can not be just a simple thing. The assassination of JFK is the classic example. The most powerful man in the world was brought down by a lone nut with a twenty five dollar mail-order rifle. People just could not believe that, it is too simple and rocks the common senses. It means that it could happen to anyone and anywhere, likewise the thought that a couple of guys could make a truck bomb and destroy a large building in the middle of one of the largest cities in the mid-west is a frightening thought. But as I have been corrected, “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”.
Check out this pilot episode for “The Lone Gunman” Fox television show. (May 2001)
Well Chas I can sort of relate, my hatred for Clinton ran so deep that I was willing to accept anything I heard about him, I suspected him of things he could not have been responsible for and had no reason to believe except for I just was that open to the thought he might.
Taz, I thought the same thing. So far I’ve been proven wrong, but I still THOUGHT Bush was behind the towers.
As we have learned since the Monica thing, Clinton was being treated for some fairly significant cardiac problems… He was taking cardiac meds. The liklihood of Clinton being able to perform sexually, is highly questionable… However, that doesnt seem to enter anybody’s mind who wants to accuse the man of having MANY female partners… Given the heart meds he had been taking, he would have been doing REALLY good to get it on with ONE partner… maybe ONCE in a while… but certainly not in the manner suggested by angry republicans…
Now, please dont take my word for it… Check with WebMD, and other web sites under cardiac meds, and side effects… You can read it all there for yourselves… So, no ad hominem attacks are necessary…
Thank you!!
Hey writerdog,
How long do you think it takes for a cruise missile to spin up?
Having served on a fast attack that has fired several I can tell you that is not a factor.
BTW, since all the Clinton haters are so fast to claim that the 9/11 plans started during the Clinton years… It should be pointed out that the 1993 WTC attack would have started during the Daddy Bush Administration (using the same logic used for blaming Clinton for 9/11)
Stalemate??
The liklihood of Clinton being able to perform sexually, is highly questionable
Chas, you may be too young to realize this but we old fogeys have this thing called “The Pump”. And for a knobber, how much effort does it take to just lay there and stink?
(Removes tongue from cheek)
Seriously, BTW Chas, I find it somewhat ironic you use lent and truner diaries in the same post. I knew the name was familiar but had to google to make sure I wasn’t vastly mistaken (I so often am).
More “crazy” rantings from the “lunatic fringe”.
It doesn’t matter who’s fault it was as the fact remains and always will remain that the Clintons are worthless POS
Yet more ravings.
Geesh, Pleef, If you post every imbecilic web site, this board will go well over a billion posts. Just do a Kansas post and list them all in one 36 inch of monitor post.
ROFL Ghot!!
Lent can be used for reflection and meditation whether spiritual or otherwise… Just a good time period for some serious introspection I find…
“The McVeigh story got strted because some reported wrote that McVeigh’s eyes never closed when he was “executed” by lethal injection… that he just stared at the ceiling… Some people smell conspiracy in a cat litter box!!
”
Wow– Apparently “some” have never seen anyone die.
dumbshits
I’m just showing you where the rabbit hole is. Go down it or not, doesn’t matter to me.
As for me, I consider the corporate media just as imbecilic.
Excerp from ‘Deriliction of Duty’ by Lt. Col. Robert Patterson.
The White House Situation Room was buzzing. It was fall 1998 and the National security Council (NSC) and the “intelligence community” were tracking the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden, the shadowy mastermind of terrorist attacks on American targets overseas. “They’ve successfully triangulated his location,” yelled a “Sit Room” watch slander. “We’ve got him.”
Beneath the West Wing of the White House, behind a vaulted steel door, the Sit Room staff sprang into action. The watch officer notified National security Advisor Sandy Berger. “Sir. we’ve located bin Laden. We have a two-hour window to strike.”
Characteristic of the Clinton Administration, the weapons of choice would be Tomahawk missiles. No clandestine “snatch” by our Special Operations Forces. No penetrating bombers or high-speed fighter aircraft flown by our Air Force and Navy forces. No risk of losing American lives.
President Not Available
Berger ambled down the stairwell and entered the Sit Room. He picked up the phone at one of the busy controller consoles and called the President. Amazingly. President Clinton was not available. Berger tried again and again. Bin Laden was within striking distance. The window of opportunity was closing fast. The plan of attack was set and the Tomahawk crews were ready. For about an hour. Berger couldn’t get the commander in chief on the line. Though the President was always accompanied by military aides and the secret Service, he was somehow unavailable. Berger stalked the Sit Room, anxious and impatient.
Finally, the President accepted Berger’s call. There was discussion, there were pauses-and no decision. The President wanted to talk with his secretaries of Defense and State. He wanted to study the issue further. Berger was forced to wait. The clock was ticking. The President eventually called back. He was still indecisive. He wanted more discussion. Berger alternated between phone calls and watching the clock. The NSC watch officer was convinced we had the right target. The intelligence sources were conclusive. The President, however, wanted a guaranteed hit or nothing at all. This time, it was nothing at all. We didn’t pull the trigger. We “studied” the issue until it was too late-the window of opportunity closed. Al Qaeda’s spiritual and organizational leader slipped through the noose.
little john… normally, when you get hit with sodium pentethol, you go to SLEEP… MOST people do not sleep with their eyes open.
Thus, when McVeigh was executed, apparently, he never appeared to go to “sleep” -
Then one of the reporters relayed that tidbit in a story, and the conspiracy freaks were off and running….
Actually a couple of them made a tiny bit of sense… but just a wee tiny bit!! LoL
Now then children,
If you remember correctly, Sandy Berger was the one that stole top secret documents in his pants and destroyed them.
He did this before testifying before the 9-11 Commission.
“If you remember correctly, Sandy Berger was the one that stole top secret documents in his pants and destroyed them.”
Copies - not the originals - keep the facts straight.
I am not condoning what Berger did, but the facts are he took COPIES.
IIRC, all Berger got was copies of documents… not the “real deal” And Berger was part of the Clinton Admin…. Why would he testify for the 9/11 commission??
BTW, did Berger get a Presidential Pardon from Clinton?? Like Libby will get from Bush??
That’s not true Chas about the copies only theory -
they don’t know exactly what was stolen, because some of the clipped on, hand written notes are not logged into the Archives, but included in the folder. That is part of the official record on the case btw.
#
Chas.
Posted February 6, 2008 at 9:55 am | Permalink
BTW, did Berger get a Presidential Pardon from Clinton?? Like Libby will get from Bush??
—————————–
I’d answer that, but stupid is as stupid does best fits that quote from Chas.
We don’t really know exactly what documents that Sandy Berger got. What ever they were they were important enough that he risked his fredom and his reputation stealing them.
From the left:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/20/berger.probe/index.html
From the right:
http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/sandy-berger-stolen-files.html
No matter how you look at it, there was a cover up!
Dear chas,
I’m worried about you. You’re starting to spin so tight that you are in danger of disappearing up your own assh0le!
Thanks for the zero hint, Regular!
As for long winded posts…I dig brevity.
911 is a result of the Clinton administration paying paddy cake with the terrorists.
Replace “Clinton” with “Congress” and you’ve got it right.
I get real tired of all you Clinton haters saying Clinton did nothing. Another very short refresher course for you:
-Clinton Administration sent legislation to Congress to TIGHTEN AIRPORT SECURITY. (Remember, this is before 911) The legislation was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the airlines.
-Clinton Administration sent legislation to Congress to allow for BETTER TRACKING OF TERRORIST FUNDING. It was defeated by Republicans in the Senate because of opposition from banking interests.
-Clinton Administration sent legislation to Congress to add tagents to explosives, to allow for BETTER TRACKING OF EXPLOSIVES USED BY TERRORISTS. It was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the NRA.
-Clinton Administration tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism
After al Qaeda declared war on the US in 1998, Clinton signed warrants for the CIA to assasinate bin Laden and his lieutenants. He was using the predator for surveilence on him AND he commanded 3 attacks against al Qaeda… 2 of which were cancelled for logistics (fear of retribution) reasons. THe one that DID come off, was called WAG THE DOG by the REPUBLICAN CONGRESS.
Bill Clinton, who identified terrorism as the major post-Cold War threat and acted to improve our counterrorism capabilities, who (little known to the public) quelled anti-American terorism by Iraq and Iran and defeated an al Qaeda attempt to dominate Bosnia, but who, weakend by continued political attack,could not get the CIA, the Pentagon, and FBI to act sufficently to deal with the threat. - Richard Clarke, “Against All Enemies” (Clarke began his career in D.C. in 1973. In 1985, he served in the Reagan Administration as Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence.)
Now let’s see what GW Bush did after taking office and having been warned about the threat of terroism.
Bush called off Predator surveillence shortly after taking office. In the early days after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the Bush White House cut by nearly two-thirds an emergency request for counterterrorism funds by the FBI.
So Bush is The Man who’s fighting terrorism. Yeah, right. Other than Homeland Security (which, btw, was passed on to him by Clinton, but ignored until he absolutely had to have something to show what a terrorism fighter he was), please list what Bush has done to fight terrorism.
Your hatred of Clinton is based on fabrications, not truth. But, hey, go ahead, if it makes you happy.
psst, hank.
Retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Robert “Buzz” Patterson, author of Dereliction of Duty: The Eyewitness Account of How Bill Clinton Compromised America’s National Security (Regnery Publishing, 2003) and the newly released Reckless Disregard: How Liberal Democrats Undermine Our Military, Endanger Our Soldiers, and Jeopardize Our National Security (Regnery Publishing, 2004), appeared as a guest on the July 19 edition of Hannity & Colmes and the July 20 edition of FOX & Friends (both on FOX News Channel), where he issued a series of unfounded attacks against Senator John Kerry (D-MA) and the Democratic Party.
Hank, Regular, read it and weep!! LOL
By Scot J. Paltrow Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Officials looking into the removal of classified documents from the National Archives by former Clinton National Security Adviser Samuel Berger say no original materials are missing and nothing Mr. Berger reviewed was withheld from the commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.
Now we will see who is spinning… All I see here is Ad hominem, ad nauseum… if you cant refute the post, then you attack the poster… That just gets SO OLD!!
One question.
Where is Osama bin Laden?
If bush ends his failure of an administration without finding or killing bin Laden, THAT is what will define bush through history.
And there will always be questions. Well, as long as I am alive to ask them anyway.
The only people on this Earth that benefitted from 911 and its aftermath are george bush and his handlers.
History will be free to wonder about that.
Regular, you know damned well Berger never got a pardon from Clinton — And yet you refuse to answer the question?? so much for your integrity!!
Boy, the blame bill clinton wackos are out this morning.
The stench of partisan stupidity is strong in the air.
Well chas,
I’m not sure how to have a discussion with someone that refuses to recognize any facts.
Clinton wasn’t president when Berger was convicted. He couldn’t pardon him. Hillary could, however, take him on as a foriegn policy advisor even though he is a convicted felon with out a clearance.
Bush did not ‘pardon’ Scooter Libby.
Your whole convoluted point is BS.
“Regular, you know damned well Berger never got a pardon from Clinton — And yet you refuse to answer the question?? so much for your integrity!!”
OK, what kind of incoherent question is this? I am no Regular fan, but your question is a horrible non-sequitur. Berger got in trouble for actions he took after Clinton left office. Ex-presidents can’t pardon anyone. I think that was behind the:
“I’d answer that, but stupid is as stupid does best fits that quote from Chas.”
As for Hank’s citing Patterson as a reliable source.
Yeah, right. Patterson may have served honorably, but that doesn’t change his status as a right wing shill.
‘Bush did not ‘pardon’ Scooter Libby.’, yet.
Most of bush’s documents will never see the light of a library, only a shredder.
Hey ksagnostic,
Patterson may be conservative, that doesn’t make him ‘defacto unreliable’. Someone that is liberal in their politics aren’t unreliable either solely because of their politics.
Merely pointing out someone’s political bias does not an argument make. You must relate their bias to a fault in their opinion.
In the above thread ignorance of Berger’s role in 9-11 was expressed. Also, it was questioned as to the source of Clinton’s unavailability. There are many sources for Clinton’s ‘dereliction of duty’. None more reliable than Col. Patterson.
At least ksagnostic figured it out that ex-Presidents can’t pardon anyone.
heh heh (insert Forest Gump line here for Chas)
Patterson may be conservative, that doesn’t make him ‘defacto unreliable’
being a liar does. Google him. The only good words on him come from Rep sites. I didn’t even bother reading your post. I learned before bothering to just go to your source and determining the degree of reliability before wasting time.
BTW, I don’t waste my time on strictly hard Dem sites either. All you extremists paint with the same brush, just use different pots.
not me ghotiphaze, I airbrush.
>> RD’s lie: Bush called off Predator surveillence shortly after taking office. <>the Bush White House cut by nearly two-thirds an emergency request for counterterrorism funds by the FBI.<< Ther request was for an outrageous amount of money with no basis to support it.
>> RD’s lie: Bush called off Predator surveillence shortly after taking office. << The predators were still being used in 2004 in conjunction with the Global Hawks. But the Predator failed to meet the Pentagon’s own performance standards. Problems included “poor target location accuracy, ineffective communications, and limits imposed by relatively benign weather, including rain.” The system was unreliable and failed to meet maintainability requirements. It was unable to spend enough time on station when flown from a base 400 miles distant, the required operating range. Its pictures weren’t accurate enough at the required slant range of 30,000 feet, meaning it would have to fly at lower, more vulnerable heights to gather data that was truly useful.
In addition, the Predator is delicate. The Predator cannot be launched in adverse weather, including any visible moisture such as rain, snow, ice, frost, or fog.” Bush did nothing wrong with cancelling them, it’s replacement is much better.
The only people on the 9/11 Commission were Republicans (the sole Democrat left in protest that the Republicans weren’t doing anything). So leave it to them to be completely incompetent. Ghouliani didn’t even bother showing up to the meetings because he was too busy making $100,000 a speech on the dead bodies of the victims.
McCain promises four more years of incompetence, Tiahrt only two.
It is not a universal Clinton hatred that you are so easy to dismiss. The utterly ridiculous claims that Bush was not only responsible for but participated in 9/11 makes it necessary to set the record straight. The terrorists were already in this country, planning and training for the attack before Bush was elected. that is not demonstrating “Clinton hatred” as it is been stated above so many times. It is a simple fact..brought up to dispute the “Bush was in on it” comments.
Unless, you are now going to claim that the governor of TX was in cahoots with Bin Laden…go ahead..claim that one. I don’t really care for him anyway..I just like trying to keep some people mindful of the FACTS. Not that the facts matter much around here. Screams of partisanship drown out the FACTS.
OK — First, I KNOW Clinton didnt pardon Sandy Berger… Geez…. He did his time, and is cleared of taking materials sensitive to the 9/11 commission… he paid his $50,000 fine as well… My point was that Libby will get off with a Pardon!! Does nobody understand Irony anymore?? Damn!!
As for Bush — So what if the training and planning for 9/11 happened BEFORE Bush was elected?? As for Bin Laden… The STRONG ties of the Bush family, to the Bin Laden Family, AND to the Saudi Royals??
And not to mention the Bush connection to the Carlysle Group?? Cant forget about that, now can we??
Bush had OPPORTUNITY to be involved before 9/11… Was he??? I have NO Clue… But he DID have the means, and the opportunity!!
Motive?? Thats the stickler… When somebody comes up with motive, I think we will ALL have to give it anothe look!!
First, I KNOW Clinton didnt pardon Sandy Berger
What belies your ignorance chas is that it would be impossible for Clinto to pardon Berger. To have even brought it up is imbecilic.
So, now you are predicting the future to spread your hatred? Accusing Bush of doing something he has not even done? Ok…let’s get back to facts. Of the 100+ pardons that Clinton doled out, over 20 were to DRUG DEALERS (http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm)
Not a Clinton bashing..just reporting the actual facts, not some wishful thinking that MAYBE something might happen.
Taz, are you okay with GHWB pardoning Cappy Weinberg and five others involved in the Iran Contra conspiracy BEFORE trial, after he had lost the 1992 election?
And discussion of pardons needs to begin with those pardons.
Those men were responsible for selling arms to Iran, a terrorist state.
And using the proceeds to support terrorism in Central America.
George W Bush has also pardoned his fair share of those convicted of drug offenses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_George_W._Bush
This list is from June 2007, and may not include any recent activity.
If Clinton was guilty of misusing pardons, then GWB is also guilty………….. but not as guilty as GHWB.
WS…you completely missed my point. I am dealing in facts….regardless of who pardoned who. I really don’t care, but I am just trying to get Chas to deal in facts. Has Bush pardoned Libby? no. Will he? Only Bush knows that..yet Chas is already attacking him for it. He is making up things to target his hatred for.
And not that it matters, WS, but I voted for Clinton. Twice. I am not bashing him or trying to make comparisons of pardons..just trying to deal with facts…not made up future guesses.
Taz — Get off your band wagon… It aint flying…. My whole point in pointing out the deal with Berger, is that — obviously he wasnt pardoned by Clinton!! Obviously Clinton was not president then… Geez…
Try thinking outside of your little box for a while… The entire MEDIA has been talking about Bush giving Libby a Pardon when the time comes…
And yet, you scream and shout, and go off into orbit because I mention it??
What is your problem, dude/dudette???
BTW Taz, you might recall that guy — unelected to anything other than Congess — You know, the one who PARDONED NIXON for anything that might ever be charged against Nixon relating to Watergate???
Now THAT is future pardoning, if ever such a thing was…
To speculate on Libby being pardoned by Bush, is not nuts… not when ALL the media in the country has already done it!!
But Clark, you know how that works… Clinton pardoned some drug offenders!! Ahhhhh SHAME!! the country is gone to hell in a handbasket!!
Bush pardons some drug offenders!! Oh, but they will have the chance to become good, productive citizens, and … and … LOL
heh heh, Chas is still wiggling in the Jello.
“Hey ksagnostic,
“Patterson may be conservative, that doesn’t make him ‘defacto unreliable’. Someone that is liberal in their politics aren’t unreliable either solely because of their politics.”
Agreed to a point. Someone’s politics, especially when he writes books on the subject, are fair game when it comes to considering the source. Particularly, it speaks to motive. There is so much bullsh*t out there about the Clintons (and yes, there is plenty of conspiracy BS about Bush as well), and given the record of Regnery publishing, I am not inclined to give Patterson the benefit of the doubt.
And after all, The so-called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, despite your prostestations to the contrary, were NOT reliable or truthful (which is why they got shot down by Fact Check).
Let me put it this way. If someone who publishes regularly in Mother Jones were to publish an “eyewitness” expose of W, I would also take it with a large grain of salt.
“So, now you are predicting the future to spread your hatred? Accusing Bush of doing something he has not even done? Ok…let’s get back to facts. Of the 100+ pardons that Clinton doled out, over 20 were to DRUG DEALERS (http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm)”
If the other “drug dealers” were like the guy I know(who was pardoned by Clinton from a prison term relating to a drug related offense), Bill Clinton did a very good thing with those pardons. The guy I know more than made the most of his second chance, and he is now helping a lot of people.
Some so called “drug dealers” do not belong in prison, especially for the extremely long terms some stupid sentencing laws mandated.
“At least ksagnostic figured it out that ex-Presidents can’t pardon anyone.
“heh heh (insert Forest Gump line here for Chas)”
Trolling for a response if I’ve ever seen one.
Re: Regular
DNFTT
Actually ksagnostic, you do more trolling with your DNFTT additions than I do. The only purpose of your add on is to gain attention to yourself that you pointed out someone makes a post you don’t think is in your category as substance (regardless if it is just fun or not)
Therefore, by pointing out what you think is a troll, you have become a troll yourself.
Outie,
“outlander
Posted February 6, 2008 at 8:19 am | Permalink
Formula for selling book for NYT writer.
1. Write book.
2. Include scathing OPINION about conservative.
3. Release the scathing OPINION as teaser.
4. Minion media pick up teaser and publish.
5. Liberals read teaser, have their OPINIONS validated.
6. Liberals buy book.
7. NYT writer puts money in pocket as savings for insurance against next round of NYT layoffs.”
Well of course, what do you expect? If you want to sell books, you don’t target an audience that doesn’t read books!
Not taking the bait.
Re: Regular
DNFTT
Thanks, Hank, for the section from the Lt. Col’s book which showed that what Regular claimed was totally wrong.
But it does show that Regular can remember the details of a Disney made-for-TV movie . . .
So what was I wrong about CapnAmerica?
Other than adding in Monica - which was made up - because I knew you Libs needed a “cigar” moment to get your attention span where you would read something long enough to comprehend it.
- Bin Laden was in their sights
- Clinton could not be contacted by phone
- The U.S. missed an opportunity to kill Bin Laden, because no one could make a decision.
What part of that was I wrong?
Turns out he could be contacted but chose not to authorize the strike.
That’s what Hank’s source said . . .
What you cited was from the totally bogus Disney movie The Path to 9-11 which claimed to be based on the Commission’s report, which it wasn’t.
But even if it were, it now turns out that the Commisssion was a whitewash.
Surprise, surprise.
Actually, I never saw the Disney movie - was on ABC or something. I saw the news about it, but never watched the movie.
I seldom watch TV.
What is relevant is why the President didn’t submit to public questions on his role before, during, and after 9-11. What did Commander Cod-Piece first refuse any idea of a commission, and then handpick its staff, and then only submit to a private interview–not on the record, not under oath, with a time limit–and Uncle Dick by his side.
What a coward.
Interesting how the cons are still blaming Clinton. I expect he’s chuckling at the very thought still of pi**ing off Bushettes.
I would ask how many signing statements Clinton signed, and how many Bush signed. I would ask how their boy Bush had to send in one of his flunkies to attempt to get the Attorney General, how was more than likely under the influence of morphine, due to his pancreatitis, to sign an extension to a law Bush’s own people told him was probably unconstitutional. Great humanitarian there, what?
I would ask why he had to send Colon Powell to give a speech at the United Nations, knowing the entire speech was bogus. And basically ending any chance of Powell moving up the political ladder. It’s called abandoning your people. Real piece of work, ain’t he?
Clinton’s “oral” number kinda pales in comparison. In fact, there is no comparison when you consider his closet parties never killed anybody. How many body-bags came out if Iraq?
And trying to tie 9/11 to Clinton and Bin dipsh*t doesn’t wash. It didn’t then, it doesn’t now, and it never will. Get over it; the numbers don’t work. Hell, more people think Bush planned 9/11 to get us into war. Gee . . . disprove that!
9/11 happened because there was no communication between the letter boys, and no money to trace the terrorists. Guess who cut funding for just that purpose. But I think it was neither Bush or Clinton’s fault. It was the general lack of professionalism and leadership in the outfits chosen and payed to do what they failed to do. If the buck stops here, than both are to blame. But I doubt the fringe dwellers here could understand that.
Good post, JMW.
This is the anniversary of Colon Bowel’s speech, in fact.
Remember all that BUSH*T?
The tons and tons of weapons of mass destruction. The tiny vial of anthrax he held up. The cartoon drawings showing military installations. The chilling “phone intercepts” that really said nothing.
This administration will forever live in infamy.
They ruin everything they touch and everyone associated with them.
Just to expound on JMW’s points, not a single person got fired over the worst lapse of security in our nation’s history.
Florid and fat George Tenant got a medal pinned on him.
Unbelievable.
despite evidence that he failed to prepare New York for a terrorist attack.
How stupid a comment can you make? This one is right up there.
Tell me Randy Scholfield: What American city WAS prepared for a terrorist attack prior to 911? Better, tell me ONE city full “prepared” for one even today?
Just exactly what would YOU do to prepare for two jet airplanes which crashed into two huge skyscrapers? Don’t give me that “communication” crap. Even today - many, many of our cities do not have communcations equipement which all first responders are on.
Gullie is no hero, but he was no less prepared than anyone else would have been for 911.
And you are really grasping at stras in desperation to pass 911 blame onto Condy. That takes a real leap of faith to caste blame on the president because of her.
Of course, you live in a fanatasy world anyway, so I don’t know why I bother.
How many body-bags came out if Iraq?
Under Clinton? None.
How many came home from Somolia under Clinton? Thank Gawd he wasn’t president during a real war.
Considering NYC had already suffered one previous terrorist attack they off all cities should have been better prepared. At the very least the fire and police dept radios should have worked correctly.
Tom even today major US Cities do NOT have the ability for their first responders to communicate with each other. Particularly in high urban areas inside concrete/steel buildings. Just google it.
New York is and was no different. You can’t pass judgement in hindsight - no one in America was prepared.
What you SHOULD do - is cast judgement NOW.
And be specific (as you and I have), look at first responder systems. Look at manpower. Look at preparation (mass casualty drills).
But you need not look far. Start with our biggest cities. Look at Kansas City.
We spend a lot of time bad mouthing the parties “who is responsible”? But little is spent on the future.
I don’t want my children or grandchildren to work in high buildings. In a huge fire or emergency they are toast - even not considering a terrorist act.
But who knows? The next attack could come on little old lonely and empty Kansas. Drop some chemicals in the water supply, blow up a nuclear plant (and radiate all of us), or release an air agent.
The bad guys are only limited by their imagination. They can walk right in from either border or sea on a container ship.
It is really stretching your dislike of others, to keep bringing up and blaming the leaders on 911.
And it is pointless, unless you have a solution for tomorrow.
“Tom even today major US Cities do NOT have the ability for their first responders to communicate with each other. Particularly in high urban areas inside concrete/steel buildings. Just google it.”
Really, amway? Just what the hell is homeland security all about? I thought that was Bush’s answer to terrorism in the homeland. Are you now saying that misguided piece of legislation is a failure? Or do we sacrifice child health for “contracts” payed to Bush supporters to protect us.
High jacking of airlines have been around since the 70’s and even in US airspace. Anybody remember D.B. Cooper? Our government chose to do nothing to secure our airspace then, it would be to expensive for the amount of lives to be lost. This country has not been proactive(since the 1950’s or 60’s) only reactive in regards to defense, infrastructure, safety of citizens etc. Why prepare for a possible catastrophe when you can put your head in the sand and save money. Why have a disaster plan in place to evacuate people (New Orleans/Katrina)? Why protect citizens of the U.S.? So don’t blame Bush (I can’t believe I’m saying this) when this kind of mentality has been place for decades. The all mighty dollar and profit at all costs dictate our government policy.
“To date the U.S. government has not been able to determine the origin of the money used for the 9/11 attacks. Ultimately the question is of little practical significance.” -THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT, p 172.[4]
Apparently it was of no consequence that 100 large was “donated” by Pakistan’s ISI to Mohammed Atta just before the attack. Check it out, it’s quite funny.
Regular
Posted February 6, 2008 at 2:54 pm | Permalink
heh heh, Chas is still wiggling in the Jello.
=============================
Regular, you havent refuted anything I said yet… But, then again, Trolls arent noted for posting anything terribly factual!!
DNFTT’s
Regular
Posted February 6, 2008 at 2:54 pm | Permalink
heh heh, Chas is still wiggling in the Jello.
=============================
Regular, you havent refuted anything I said yet… But, then again, Trolls arent noted for posting anything terribly factual!!
Damn double posts!! I wish they would fix this thing again!!
Gilluani was advised not to move the headquaters into the World Trad Center, as that was a high value target, but he did anyway and total chaos was the result of that decision.
350 some days and counting.
Will bush get bin Laden?
He SAID dead or alive. So I GUESS he didn’t exactly lie in this particular case.
Obama is, very much, alive.
If bush does not get bin Laden, that is his legacy. He will have failed to catch or kill the greatest attacker on America in it’s history.
I’m still dead.
#
ksagnostic
Posted February 6, 2008 at 4:51 pm | Permalink
Not taking the bait.
Re: Regular
DNFTT
————————–
You just did.
and, you just trolled again.
Regular/James/et al writes:
“Therefore, by pointing out what you think is a troll, you have become a troll yourself.”
Hmmmm now with that kind of logic, IF you point out a dope dealer, then you become a dope dealer yourself…
Go figure!! Regular, maybe you SHOULD watch more TV… might help you with your thinking processes!!
Chas just trolled me, by bringing attention to himself on what I wrote.
Chas is a troll.
Regular cant tell the difference between being trolled, and being beat up the side of the head with a true statement about his own logic!!
Bye all!! Pain pill is working now!!