Back in October 2004, President Bush touted an “ownership society†in which “more Americans than ever will be able to open up their door where they live and say, ‘Welcome to my house, welcome to my piece of property.’†It sounded good.
But Naomi Klein argues that Bush’s attempt to turn working-class people into property and stock owners (and Republicans) was based on reckless economics. In 2002, she points out, Bush called on Fannie Mae and the private sector “to unlock millions of dollars, to make it available for the purchase of a home,†a direct encouragement of the subprime lending trend.
With 2 million Americans now facing foreclosure, the home ownership society looks like it was built on sand.
98 Comments
GWB has killed the golden goose —- any more things he can screw up in a year — what a putz
I thought we all own the “higher pie” now that George W. Bush, Harvard MBA and the Second Coming of Christ, was going to cook up for all us ordinary Americans who bar-b-qued and shared a beer with him down on the ranch?
No?
Typical hypocritical smear job Scholfield. Encouraging banks to loan to low income people was a big deal and supported by media such as the Eagle. No one forced banks to make questionable loans.
And God forbid that working class people be encouraged to be property owners and stock owners. Everyone knows they should be living paycheck to paycheck and government dependent. (Democrats)
Reckless, fool-hardy, insane - but a few of the words that describe ALL things bushco.
345 days, 13hours, 20 minutes
Keep a careful watch as there are still many things bushco can do WRONG before January 20, 2009!
It is a bumpy road, this thing called life, but as Hunter S. Thompson said “Buy the Ticket, Take the Ride!” And really, deep down inside, we wouldn’t miss it for the world, now would we? I didn’t think so.
I thought his attempt yesterday to make himself relevent at CPAC was really funny. The less they applauded, the more desperate he became to appear jovial and “one of them”.
Hell, when he’s lost CPAC, you know that he must be one lonely dude. Well, he would be I guess if he had any feelings.
The dream of a jhouse is a good dream but lets remember most of the people going to forecloser knew they had no buisness buying a home, thet they could not afford one but they did it anyway. So no one can blame BUSH entirily or the home owner, it was a mistake by all involved!
Home ownership is a great idea and one I think the government should promote. It promotes stable families and stable communities when people put down roots and stay long term and have a stake in the community they live in.
The problem with Bush/Greenspan approach is that they made a choice to accomplish this goal via the demand side of the equation. In fact Greenspan as pretty much admitted such. They drove mortgage rates to historic lows and started a boom in housing that drove prices through the roof and had all kinds of nutty speculators flipping homes and condos that were not even yet built. This cause already high housing prices to skyrocket making housing even more out of reach for average people. You had housing prices going up 10% to over 30% a year in some places while real wages were going up 3% to 5%. People were able to buy houses using smoke-and-mirror loans and other schemes that should be illegal. Any idiot shou;ld have seen the “WARNING DISASTER AHEAD” sign years ago. That is what caused this mess and it is going to get much more painful before it gets any better.
The best way to promote home ownership is through the SUPPLY side and the main reason we cannot do that is because of LOCAL government land use restrictions that require huge homes on huge lots in more places. We have communities around here that require acre lots and 5000 sq ft houses. The zoning laws are what has made housing so expensive and the best thing the federal government can do to promote home ownership is to prod local communities into adopting a national model zoning law that would allow higher density housing to be built. It is better to have 4 2000 sq ft houses on 1 acre than 1 5000 sq ft house. You could put 7 or 8 nice 3br townhouses on the same lot. The reason that local governments are hesitant to do that is because it is not in their financial interest to do so. 8 3br townhomes might pay $8000 a year in property taxes but use 8 times the schools, police and other services that the single 5000 sq ft home would use. And the 5000 sq foot home would probably pay about $3000 a year in property taxes so that is $3000 per family vs $1000 per family. It does not take a math wizard to figure this out. What the federal government can do is adopt a policy of equalization funding of local governments that adopt a national zoning model. So the federal government would essentially close the gap in terms of school, highway and funding for local local police and fire services. This would allow for more homes per lot and lower the cost of housing significantly which would promote stable ownership based on price rather than smoke and mirror loans.
You’d think all those people whose jobs were being shipped overseas by corporate America would have figured out that the resultant drops-like-a rock standard of living in this country would mean they wouldn’t be able to own their own home.
Some were really fooled when shown monthly payments LOWER than those they had been paying in rent. There really are people who didn’t look past that amount and the bankers sure didn’t tell them any differently! I know it doesn’t speak well of the intelligence level of too many of our fellow Americans, but look around. See some Americans you think might be ill informed, gullible, easily fooled…???
“Red Lining” is what we call it, when lenders illegally refuse to loan money, in low income, minority neighborhoods.
That practice stopped years ago.
However, EVERYONE was all for the “ownership society” idea that Bush spoke of.
Ownership carries risk.
Those who have no experience, with ownership, will be a higher risk than those who do have such experience. Why is this so hard to figure out for some of you?
Furthermore, only a very small percentage of the total number of mortgages, in this country, are in default.
Actually, then number of “sub-prime” mortgages, that are in trouble, is also very low.
Ownership carries risk.
Remove “risk” and you really don’t “own” anything.
Randy, do you think that some people are just too stupid to own their own homes?
What of the vast majority of people who purchased homes, the last few years, who have not defaulted on their loans?
Take the good with the bad.
Tell me what you wish to change, and how your changes will impact the rest of us.
Government regulation, IMHO, is adequate, already.
Maybe more disclosure, Big HUGE red letters on Adjustable Rate loans.
However, any new regulation will REDUCE the number of loans to to the credit-challenged.
Any new regulations will have the same effect as the government “red-lining” low income people out of opportunity.
Again, the vast majority of “sub-prime” mortgages are NOT in default!
I am glad that I did not fall for it; I think a lot of people thought that just getting to that point to where they can buy a house that the battle was over.
People have a real knack for forgetting that what goes up, must at some point come down.
““Red Lining” is what we call it, when lenders illegally refuse to loan money, in low income, minority neighborhoods.
That practice stopped years ago.”
Paulie, it was made illegal years ago. It didnt stop. It’s just more subtle now.
“However, EVERYONE was all for the “ownership society” idea that Bush spoke of.”
You got that right dude. Bush dangled a bright and shiney object, sold it with some pretty words and “inspiration” and almost eveyone swallowed it, hook, line and sinker.
Democrats and Republicans alike jumped on the bandwagon and couldnt WAIT to give bushco and cronies EVERY god damn thing they wanted.
And now?
They want to act like it was all Bush’s fault. Hey, I despise Bush as much as the next sane person, but let’s not forget, he was “reaching across the aisle” and republicans and democrats WILLINGLY went along.
Hell. They still ARE giving him everything he wants.
Paul, How’s your granddaughter? I hope she threw something else at you! I mean that with kindness and showing energy needed to get well. :-)
Everyone supported expanding home ownership at the time. Now since it isn’t perfect, the libs here are chortling and dancing with glee at the loss of people being turned out of their homes. The libs are thrilled at something going wrong, cheering the suffering of thousands in their quest for more fodder for their hatred campaign.
This is not in defense of the pathetic occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, I don’t think there is any defense for almost all his actions. It is just an observation of the pathetic nature of the libs here. They supported expanding home ownership at one point–now they cheer at the expense of the suffering of others.
Sick. And sad.
Nothing wrong with owning capital. Hell, that’s why Augustus Stupidus agreed with the phrase “Ownership Society” when he was handed it by Karl Rove! Disagreeing with it is like disagreeing with the phrase “Water is necessary.”
Foreclosures on primary residences isn’t the problem. The larger problem we face from Bush’s bubble comes from loaning all those dollars at the wrong price, a price that miscalculated risk. THAT’s the storm anchor on today’s and tomorrow’s US economy: sub-prime lending that was packaged and sold at too low a price. Because the packeting of the loans obscures the underlying real risk, global balance sheets will be adjusting for years.
This by the way is one of the hallmarks of Bush’s presidency: stuff done halfway, no followthrough. Bush’s Ownership Society joins Kyoto, NCLB, Afghanistan, Mission Accomplished, Medicare Part D, Iraq, and Katrina as just one more initiative done half-assed. Thank god the CIA got the latest NIE released publicly or we’d have to add Iran, too.
Under President Hillary Clinton, we the People will not have to own anything.
We will have free HillaryHealthcare.
We will have free SocialSecurityVillages, where we can all commune together and eat our free HillaryCare Food. It takes a village you know.
The Government will meet our every need, and we won’t need to own anything. It will all be collectively owned.
Eat, drink koolaide, and be happy!
What, surprised that people looked at low payment, escalating property values (bush bubble) and took the bait to be part of the American Dream?
Now all society is paying for it economically, here and world wide. When bush f’s up, go goes big.
“Now since it isn’t perfect, the libs here are chortling and dancing with glee at the loss of people being turned out of their homes. The libs are thrilled at something going wrong, cheering the suffering of thousands in their quest for more fodder for their hatred campaign.”
Yer insane. I have YET to read a post that says ANYONE is happy about people losing their homes.
I have seen posts that said homeowners who bought housese beyond their means, who didnt read the contracts, who were in DENIAL that rates could go up and they could lose their homes should have to take some responsibility for their decisions.
WTF? What happened to the cult of personal responsibility?
And some of us think the lenders should have taken some responsibility for making unwise and predatory loans, then reselling them and shuffling off the risk and RESPONSIBILITY to someone else.
No one here wants people to lose their homes. Ever.
But arent you righties always saying that we should all take responsibility and the government should not bail out anyone, lenders or buyers?
Geez Taz, are you losing your McMansion?
Max, Are you FOR any candidate for POTUS? I know you are possessed with Hillary Clinton. I think your obsession needs new material. Will the end of the writer’s strike help you find it?
The government should regulate the home mortgage market to prevent such catastrophies in the future. Heavy regulation is needed. Some of things that should be done include requiring down payments (at least 5%) on all sales, requiring fixed rate terms of at least 15 years on all loans and outlawing all prepayment penalties which prevent refinancing of smoke-and-mirror loans. Also minimum credit standards should be applied by law (no credit blemishes in the past 12 months, no bankruptcy or repossessions in the past 36 months, FICO score at least 625 or above). People say “oh the free market should rule” but the fact is that the free market is a mess and it has failed. And it cost ALL of us. A direct cost to me is the fact that houses that are in foreclosure in my sub division are driving up our HOA dues because those owners did not pay and the foreclosure wipes out what the owe. Our dues either had to go up or they were going to have to close the pool for the summer season. And the fact is empty houses with for sale signs do not do my property any good. So I support heavy regulations.
“People say “oh the free market should rule” but the fact is that the free market is a mess and it has failed. And it cost ALL of us.”
That’s why some of us continually note that republicans LOVE to “privatize the profits and socialize the costs”.
But they dont want socialism. Oh no. Just the socialism that allows them to socialize their costs.
While filling their personal pockets with the privatized profits.
At least now, thanks to Bush and the Neocons, when folks have their backs against the wall financially, it will be much harder for them to file bankruptcy.
This way, we can get those poor, low life deadbeats coming AND going.
sarcasm/
Good one Clark. And if they DO try to file for bankruptcy, the credit card companies and their unsecured, heavily marketed debt, have moved WAY up the line of unsecured creditors. It sure enough was bankruptcy “reform”.
But who benefited?
The ad I saw said right up front “rates are now at historic lows” Now just what way are rates going to go, and why would you bet against that happening???
This “Crisis” comes from a lot of people being greedy and stupid, and now they pay, and cry for help. Tough Banana’s
The subprime mortgage crisis is the natural result of the conservative myth.
I never fell for the subprime come-ons, but I heard some of their pitches.
“Most people move in a few years, so you’ll probably be selling before the rate changes.”
“The rates could go down!”
“The rates might go up, but by that time, you’ll get a raise or two, right?”
And then, of course, the lenders turned around and, with historical evidence of mortage loan security, bundled all those subprime loans together and sold the paper to… stupid people who thought these loans would perform the same way that traiditional loans worked. Oh, and they could reposess the properties. Oh, and declaring bankruptcy (thanks to the Bush Administration’s bankruptcy “reform,” was still quite easy for corporations and other Republic Party campaign contributors.
Big Money gamed the system, just as Big Money gamed the Savings and Loan crisis (thanks, Senator McCain), just as the leveraged buy-outs of the 1980s gamed corporate America and workers’ pension funds.
Like that old Woody Guthrie song:
“Some folks’ll rob you with a shotgun
Some are gonna do it with a fountain pen.”
We own the disaster that bush has made of our economy!
Yeah phantom. And we now own part of the iraq war. And that includes obama, who’s voting record matches Clintons since he’s actually had to VOTE, not just talk, about the damn war.
Democrats should just be glad bush is SO horrible. Otherwise? They are certainly guilty of being complicit.
Hell. They still ARE. Look at FISA and the telecoms and the pass they gave Roberts and Alito.
Jesus WEPT! If those two guys and the war are not worth dying on the hill for…
WTF is?
And if they had not been given the loans the government would have sued them for some type of discrimination. That was the original impetus for these crap loans to start with.
Most of these people had no business owning anything. They were (are) irresponsible humans. Many were NINJA loans that were given to meet the loaning institution sales goals.
NINJA loans are loans made to people that had NO INCOME, NO JOB or ASSETS (NINJA) .
Now read that back to yourself real slowly and see if you would loan that guy 300,000 dollars.
If so, drop us a note. Since apparently we have a lot of wonderful kind hearted fools here that want to give us their money.
I’m having a great time laughing at all the poor folk losing their homes. Yep, just call me a liberal bastid, and be done with it. Why should I care one red cent about them poor folks. Maybe because many are my neighbors? Or they just might have children who might be going hungry . . . nope, can’t be that, the republicans say there aren’t any hungry children in this country. Or is it because those people might now be homeless. . . Opps, can’t be that either. The republicans keep saying homeless people are homeless because they are either stupid, or want to be homeless.
But the nations going to be okay now; Bush has signed a bill promising $600 to each taxpayer in May, so they ought to be able to pay off those house loans, and that white picket fence will keep them safe and sound. So, gee, what’s everybody so shook up for? Why, the stimulus package will only cost $150 billion. That’s only about %115 billion more than the SCHIP. Damn, don’t we have a great president and congressional leaders? The question’s rhetorical.
“the government would have sued them for some type of discrimination. That was the original impetus for these crap loans to start with.”
I don’t buy that for one minute. The loans were made to generate fees for brokers, banks and investment firms.The government looked the other way.Same thing happen with s&l’s.
We will have a nasty recession to purge the system and restore confidence.
The subprime mortgage crisis is the natural result of the conservative myth.
I never fell for the subprime come-ons, but I heard some of their pitches.
“Most people move in a few years, so you’ll probably be selling before the rate changes.”
“The rates could go down!”
“The rates might go up, but by that time, you’ll get a raise or two, right?”
—————
That was a liberal myth.
“That was a liberal myth.”
Liberal myth? You’ve just posted the neo-con mantra. If you’re going top slam Liberals, you might want to know what you’re talking about.
Darn, you republicans are some funny people.
My granddaughter has her own room now, she just moved to it an hour ago.
She will be in the hospital for at least another week, but — as long as the left lung stays clear, we are in very good shape.
Thanks for asking!
This kid is the “Energizer Bunny” she is just incredible.
She has been to the hospital, so much, it is hard to get a good vein in her arm.
Still, she keeps fighting!
Again, thanks for your prayers.
lindainks55
Posted February 9, 2008 at 10:04 am | Permalink
Max, Are you FOR any candidate for POTUS? I know you are possessed with Hillary Clinton. I think your obsession needs new material. Will the end of the writer’s strike help you find it?
————————————————–
Thompson was the only conservative. I’m now without a candidate to be FOR. I’ll still vote, like before - for the lesser of two evils. I don’t like the negative approach of having to vote AGAINST somebody vs voting FOR somebody. Conservatives today have no choice.
The whole premise of this article is that ownership is somehow a bad thing. That Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the whole Government backed housing industry forced these subprime mortgages onto people at gunpoint. And as usual, it’s all Bush’s fault.
Well, in any case, the Government is bailing these people out.
And to say it wasn’t until the 1990’s when most people owned homes or owned stock, that is complete BS. 401k’s were popular already in the 1980’s, making it easy for many Americans to own stock, bonds, etc…
If Ownership is bad, what’s the alternative? My post above was intended only to be partially sarcastic.
MonkeyHawk
Posted February 9, 2008 at 12:44 pm | Permalink
The subprime mortgage crisis is the natural result of the conservative myth.
I never fell for the subprime come-ons, but I heard some of their pitches.
————————————————
Well there ya go, even MonkeyHawk was smart enough to know a bad deal when he saw one.
For those wanting more government regulation against stupidity, please don’t complain when you don’t qualify for the next loan you apply for.
And when everyone is crying about not being able to get a mortgage because the industry has become even more heavily regulated, you will only have yourselves to blame for that, too.
Monkey:
“Big Money gamed the system, just as Big Money gamed the Savings and Loan crisis (thanks, Senator McCain), just as the leveraged buy-outs of the 1980s gamed corporate America and workers’ pension funds.”
Excuse me, how many people went to jail due to the Madison Guarantee Savings and Loan failure?
And. what was the attorney’s name, in Arkansas, who was on retainer, representing Madison Guarantee S and L, at the time of that failure?
“Max” –
One of the most incredible offspring of the subprime mortgage crisis was to see that Congress had to pass regulations tha *forced* lenders to determine if lendors were actually *qualified* for their loans.
I mean, like, *duh.*
As long as George WMD Bush was in office and the Republic Party was in power in Congress, the lendors expected to privatize profits and socialize corporate losses.
You Cons talk like subprime mortgage lending was somehow Big Money reaching out to help the poor. Marginal lenders were given a bait-and-switch deal with subprime loans. And the lenders packaged all those loans with a lie that these subprime loans were somehow like traditional mortgages.
So, yeah. The people who are being thrown out of their house probably should have read the fine print. But they aren’t getting government bailouts under the George WMD Bush administration. The fools (hah!) who financed those subprime loans are getting a multi-billion dollar taxpayer-funded bailout.
Just like John McCain’s advocation for the Savings & Loan bailout in the 1980s.
“Econ101″ –
You, as well as anybody, know how the Republic Party manipulated the Savings & Loan crisis to result in a government bailout. Don’t you?
If you have any problems with what happened to Madison Guarante S&L, you’ve got to own the laws as they were manipulated way prior to the Clinton presidence.
It was all Reagan/Bush I that created that particular bailout. And you know that.
No one I’ve come across has been able to attribute the Madison Guarantee S&L collapes to anything except the Republic Party’s passion for dereulation during the Reagan/Bush I administrations.
Your only-est attack on the Clintons during those years is: “They played by the rules!!!”
It was the rules that were wrong. And you know it.
It was privatizing gains and socializing losses. An you know it.
It was the Republic Party way. And you advocate it.
Monkey
Give it a rest, at least long enough to try for a LITTLE consistency.
Real Estate deals and Mortgage deals are often complicated, and there are always a few that go bad.
However, HILLARY CLINTON was the attorney for Madison Guarantee Savings and Loan, and many people were convicted, at Madison Guarantee, precisely because those people did NOT “play by the rules”
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/03/18/mcdougal/index.html
15 people WERE convicted of crimal charges, in the Madison Guarantee, White Water, Castle Grande Clinton scandals.
Hillary was the attorney most involved.
What was that about the “rules” again?
MonkeyHawk, Please NEVER give it a rest! Many still need to get their heads out of the sand and hear the truth.
Linda
For the record, I pretty much resist the popular urge to “criminalize” business failures.
We got rid of “debtors prisons” long ago. Risk is what makes this country great. Criminal penalties, for bad business decisions, are a very, very bad idea. Still, the laws that are already on the books should be followed.
I do agree with those who have pointed out that those who expect “rewards” should also accept the risks.
Remove risk and you will destroy this country.
Taking risks is what makes America great.
However, those who take the risk SHOULD shoulder most of the cost, when the risk does not work out.
And, Paul, that’s not how this is working out, is it?
Please continue MonkeyHawk, people like lindainks55 thrive on bad economic news, war dead and other tragedies to score political points.
If it wasn’t for cynicism and pissing in their own cornflakes, they couldn’t stand to wake up everyday.
Lots of people, at Merril Lynch and elsewhere, on the securities/brokerage side, and at Countrywide and Citibank, on the lending side, have lost their jobs over this. Very high-ranking heads have rolled.
Financial stocks have taken a very big hit.
I would say that those who took the risk ARE taking the hit, for the most part.
“Econ101″ –
You know as well as I that Senator Clinton was not the primary attorney from the Rose Law Firm to deal with Madison Guarantee S&L.
She had, what? Forty hours billed to that account? One weeks’s work over how many weeks, months, years it took for that case to be resolved?
If you’ve paid any attention at all to the discussions on this forum you know Hillary is not my chosen candidate. But what might have happened in the law firm she was involved with 25 years ago, under the laws established by Ronald Reagan and the Republic Party really don’t rank as any possible objection a Republic Party patsy such as you might conjure up in 2008.
You know as well as I do that when an attorney is contracted to be an advocate, it’s not representative of what any indidual might hold as personal beliefs.
Thousands of attorneys have defended horrible criminals for no other reason than to assure even the horrible criminal gets a fair trial.
The guy who defended Charlie Manson wasn’t “in favor of” cult mass murder. His job was to make sure Charlie got a fair trial and Charlie got it and is gonna die in jail and that is justice.
That, over years of litigation, you people can come up with only 40 hours of billed workd by Hillary Clinton regarding the Madison Guarantee S&L case tells me she wasn’t all that involved in the case. Maybe someone called upon as a consultant. But give us all a break when you try to bring Madison up as somehow she’s responsible for the S&L crisis of the 1980s.
Oh. But who was on the front lines back then? John McCain?
Oops. Sorry to remind you.
Monkey
Hillary was on RETAINER for $2,000 per month from Madison Guarantee Savings and Loan.
Any “billable hours” would be over and above those hours covered by said retainer.
— 25 years ago?
If McCains Savings and Loan issue is in play, so is Hillary’s Savings and Loan issue.
You cant pick and choose here.
Actually Regular I’m one of the more positive people on this board. And I reserve my attacks for PUBLIC people, their ideas and actions; choosing to listen to all posters viewpoints. I think we’ve each probably thought it out and weighed the facts while coming to our opinions. But if you find solace in critizing me, that’s OK too!
“Econ101″ –
As potentially corrupt you might dig up Arkansas politics and the Madison Guarantee S&L problem, the best you can do is come up with 40 billable hours by Hillary Clinton.
Even with $70 million behind him, Kenny Starr couldn’t come up with enough evidence. And we all know a competentn prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich.
You’ve got nothin’.
As much as you hope and wish and pray you can come up with a crime… it’s not there.
Never was.
Never will.
Obama does not have a savings and loan issue. That is why I voted for him.
“You know as well as I do that when an attorney is contracted to be an advocate, it’s not representative of what any indidual might hold as personal beliefs.”
===========================
Wasnt that the argument of the Right Wing, when it was pointed out some of the groups that Fred Thompson lobbied for as a lobbyist?? Hmmmmm….
M H — We both know that they wont stop with the “little white lies” –
Sort of like that one candidate many years ago who lost his bid for office when his opponent alleged that he had been seen matriculating in public at least 4 times… AND, that it was a known fact that he had been a well known Thespian for many years…
Gotta love it… Here’s yer sign!!
The “Ownership Society?” That’s an exclusive club for major Bush campaign contributors.
NeoRobberBarons.com will have us all back in company slums before long, with threats of eviction, excommunication all sorts of other dire things if heard compaining about slave wages and conditions talking about unionization, or blaspheming an employer. Goodbye, Burmashave.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Boooo hoooo (sniffle, sniffle),
With nearly 70% of Americans owning their own homes, meaning over 100 million of us, the homeownership society is hardly build on sand.
The truth is most American households live in homes they enjoy and own. And even with 2 million mortgages in trouble, this is hardly a dent on the American dream. QUIT WHINING and making a bigger deal out of minor things.
46% of poor households in the US own their own home, and 30% have two or more cars, and 63% have cable or satellite TV (Washington Times 2006).
So please stop crying and whining. We know it’s a leftist media complaint to place a negative on the current administration. But the foreclosure event is hardly widespread in the general population.
In fact, the media crying wolf is impacting the markets - fear motivation rules.
So knock it off. Quit whining.
But if it gives the crybaby Bush bashing libs on this blog something else to cry about - keep it up.
But it is a minor blimp on societies radar screen.
I read many complaining, many criticizing, some dissecting, others defending; but, only one crying.
Since the media/libs are soooo concerned about these irresponsible people, let me add a solution.
1. Stop loaning money to people with poor credit ratings.
2. Force all those with new or poor credit ratings to pay down the PMI (20%) minimum before allowing home purchases (lower risk/force savings).
3. Stop handing out credit cards. If your credit rating is low - then no card. Not higher interest.
4. Reduce the credit limit on cards for people of high risk (low credit scores/failure to pay/balances too high).
5. Stop helping stupid people be stupid. Do not allow loans to poor people who do not have the ability, financials, or credit history to pay.
Geez, the government has to hold these adults hands? They made their beds - now they can move them to the curb!
But it’s like healthcare, a few don’t have it - so the libs say the FEDS gotta fix it.
100 million home owners. 2 million default. Percentage?
American Way you should read up on the subject.Car loans and credit cards are also starting to default at the same rate as home loans.
Subprime, CDO Bank Losses May Exceed $265 Billion (Update5)
By Jody Shenn and David Mildenberg
Jan. 31 (Bloomberg) — Losses from securities linked to subprime mortgages may exceed $265 billion as regional U.S. banks, credit unions and overseas financial institutions write down the value of their holdings, according to Standard & Poor’s.
S&P cut or put on review yesterday the ratings on $534 billion of bonds and collateralized debt obligations, many of which were rated as high as AAA. The action was the broadest by the New York-based firm in response to rising delinquencies among borrowers with poor credit. Moody’s Investors Service and Fitch Ratings today said that they’re also toughening assessments of the securities as home prices fall and the economy weakens.
When will we learn their will always be those too poor to own their home?
Homeownership is NOT a right.
their=there
Annie I know! I’ve posted many times about the average credit card (CC) debt. Something like $6,000!!!!
And when the libs cry, we will have to hold these Americans hands too.
Like it’s MY fault these people spend money they don’t have?
I pay my bills on time, have no debt (other than mortgage), and pay my CC in full each and every month.
I’m ALSO paying for the poor CC holders.
Merchants pay CC companies to use their services. CC companies charge higher rates to recover the defaults/fraud on CC useage. Merchants pay more - so they raise product prices (they never pay).
So my purchases cost me more for the merchants and CC companies to cover the poor people/stupid people charging more than they can afford.
Whine and whine some more AmWay! (and you whine about the libs supposedly whining!!!)
The “Ownership Society?” That’s an exclusive club for major Bush campaign contributors.
Poor Jed. He must live in the projects. Because as I drove to the democrat caucus, I sure saw a lot of my neighbors voting. Lot’s of the libs own their own homes too.
Most Americans do too. Own 2 cars, cable tv, computer, cell phone(S), and many other things.
Unless the ownership you are referring to is MY property and earnings you are referring to.
Naaw Kansas, I’m not whining. I’m happy as a lark.
I have a bowl of popcorn (real butter), a glass of Appleton Reserve and zero coke, and am sitting back in my computer room (three PC’s), in my leather chair, listening to the Eagles, with the wifey in her sewing room with her laptop. Kids grown and independently successful, two paid off cars in the three car garage under me, my bass boat covered int he carport next to it, and a home nearly paid off. Just finished eating a 10 ounce prime ribeye steak cooked on my 90% stainless steal industrial gas grill.
and reading the libs whines.
That makes me happy as a lark.
Taz
Posted February 9, 2008 at 9:17 am | Permalink
Everyone supported expanding home ownership at the time. Now since it isn’t perfect, the libs here are chortling and dancing with glee at the loss of people being turned out of their homes. The libs are thrilled at something going wrong, cheering the suffering of thousands in their quest for more fodder for their hatred campaign.
*****
Thanks for responding to this, KSFrmGrrl & MonkeyHawk.
The only thing we’re thrilled about is that author of yet another huge American catastrophe is has only got 11 months before the dumpster cover of history shuts on Worst. President. Possible.
For those of you that say that this is only “2 million mortgage defaults out of 160 million . . . ”
Typical CON thinking. “What happens to them has nothing to do with me.”
When housing prices go down, so do the property taxes, meaning that schools, police, fire, roads etc. are all going to be underfunded.
When housing prices go down, people can’t take out home equity loans (or not as much) on the value of their homes, and thus spending goes down.
The Dow fell from a historical high of over 14,000 to barely over 12,000 (which isn’t much higher than where it was on January 20, 2001) because of fears of the contraction of spending leading to recession.
Nobody’s thrilled by this. But as liberals, we aren’t surprised by it. Worst. President. Ever. helped de-regulate banking along with everything else, and what we’re seeing is why we needed that regulation to begin with . . .
Really, AmWay?
Because I just flew in from London first-class where I had another good week at that baccarat table.
Had to meet with Prince Charles, but after that I was free for the week.
My Belgian model girlfriend told me that I “wore her out” in that adorable accent of hers but she’ll have a chance to get rested up after she finishes her European Victoria’s Secret shoot in a couple of days.
Dammit, I’m getting a call from Charlize Theron on the satellite phone. That wench just won’t leave me alone . . .
Bass boat . . . hehe.
If you can’t go for wahoo and tuna off the reefs in The Bahamas, I guess you have to do what you can do.
Beats “noodling,” eh, AmWay?
“cooked on my 90% stainless steal industrial”
Usually people who can afford nice things know how to spell them.
Or maybe it was a Freudian slip.
Capn
Exactly what banking law did George W. Bush push for, and sign, that was responsible for the home mortgage default rate going up?
What, exactly, were the legal and regulatory differences, under George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, concerning home mortgages?
Please try not to be so partisan. You don’t like Bush, I think we got that.
However, it is still easier for someone to buy or sell a home, today, than it was during the term of Jimmy Carter.
Your “Worst President” label is ridiculous. We have had some horrible Presidents, in my lifetime, and I am not even 50 years old yet.
Nixon, Carter, Ford, Clinton
They all had some major screw ups.
History will NOT be nearly so hard on George W. Bush.
Just read about the Keating five, wasn’t aware they took 1.3 mil. in contributions, and then were the five senators to try and interfere with the investigation of Keating for sinking his S&L.
I don’t recall the Clintons deriving any real economic gain from the cooked up Whitewater investigation.
Wow
I forgot one of the very worst Presidents: LBJ!
When housing prices go down, so do the property taxes, meaning that schools, police, fire, roads etc. are all going to be underfunded.
That is bullshi-p and everyone here knows it.
OUR PROPERTY TAXES CONTINUE TO GO UP, EVEN THOUGH THE MARKET IS DOWN. Just got my county statement last month and my valuation went UP.
Everyone knows taxes always go up, and rarely go down.
The valuations statewide, SHOULD go down. Even despite new development.
Unfortunately, the counties/state with the rigged CAMA system, are going to hit us up for more, despite our homes lower (sales) value.
Remember, there are three appraisals on the valuation of your home:
1. County/State
2. Realtor/Sale price
3. Insurance
When I have time, Econ, I’ll get back with you on that.
But the simple fact is, something changed under Bush–otherwise, this would have happened before.
As for Bush being the worst president ever, it’s hard to say for sure because culture and society was so much different one hundred years ago.
But as far as the worst president since 1900, there’s no contest–of course, it’s Bush; nobody else even comes close.
Bush was totally unprepared for the worst terrorist attack on American soil ever.
The ringleader of Al Qaeda is still free.
Growth of the equity market is slowest of any 2 term president.
National debt grows from 5 trillion to over 9 trillion.
Wages for middle class and working class are going down, after going up most years under Clinton.
Number of Americans living in poverty went up every year under Bush, while going down every year under Clinton.
Took us to war in Iraq to protect us from attack by Weapons of Mass Destruction. No WMD’s were ever found. Five years later, fighting continues with no end in sight.
Fired federal prosecutors who refused to break the law for his political gain.
“Legalized” war-crimes (torture, rendition), holds prisoners for years without trial, spies on American citizens without warrants.
That’s the short list . . .
“As for Bush being the worst president ever, it’s hard to say for sure ”
Wow! CapnAmerica posted this?
I’ll bet there are, what, a bazillion posts of
his where Bush as the worst president EVER?
Did a tornado take me - out of Oz?
LBJ and great society.
bush and ruined society.
What the hell is paulie doing commenting on this thread? He rents.
Or, is that his bias here?
Castle Grande ripped off retired people in a shady “lease to own” deal.
Mis a payment, and “poof” all your prior “credits” went out the window.
Madison Guarantee Savings and Loan leant money to Bill and Hillary Clinton, to buy Whitewater property. There is NO evidence that the Clintons ever made a single payment on that property.
However, the Clintons did take a tax loss, on property that was NEVER at risk to them.
And, Hillary was on retainer, for $2,000.00 a month, to Madison Guarantee Savings and Loan.
http://www.nohillaryclinton.com/?p=480
Hillary was the attorney, on retainer, for an S and L that went under. Okay, not necessarily criminal.
However, Hillary and Bill were ALSO business parters with many people who were convicted.
For those of you that say that this is only “2 million mortgage defaults out of 160 million . . . ”
Typical CON thinking. “What happens to them has nothing to do with me.”
Hahaha! 2 million is 2 percent of the homeowners in America. That is NOT a “home ownership society looks like it was built on sand.”
Never said it has nothing to do with me. Reading comprehension is the problem here.
Actually
The BUDGETS of taxing authorities have NOTHING to do with property values.
The budgets are “spread” over values.
The values can and do change.
The budget is the budget, whatever the politicians in the 105 taxing authorities in Sedgwick County say they need.
If everyones value goes down by an equal percentage, everyone’s taxes will stay the same, provided the budges this year were the same as last year.
Only the mill levy will change! It will go UP to reflect lower values.
Okay, proof positive.
AmWay is Regular.
They both play the same post half a quote game and hound you with it.
JM-Regular did it with WSClark all the time.
Just now getting that Capn?
Of COURSE “Amway” is “Regular”
I’m just wondering when “Max” will join the fray.
I WAS apparently wrong about the old biddy ksgrm. She’s alot like kooky old James “regular” but I guess it’s for real.
JR
LBJ got us deep into Vietnam with his “Gulf of Tonkin Resolution”
Care to compare Vietnam casualties with Iraq casualties?
The difference was that we hadn’t already gone through Vietnam previously, Econ.
Bush CHOSE to do it again . . .
And BTW, the Econs’ back then were all bitching that we weren’t fighting harder . . .
Heh, yeah, JR.
I have never reported to the WEBlog JM-Regular’s actual living conditions.
But if he keeps going with “the God must love me because I’m rich” line, he’s just begging to be whacked with reality for everyone to see.
I assume the 160 mil. are current total home owners, and not the current number of mortgages outstanding. If so, then why would anyone compare the number of defaults with that total?
Or does the 160 m. represent the number of mortgages outstanding, and would be a reasonable comparison base for defaults?
Capn
Actually, our military did win in Vietnam.
Our politicians lost Vietnam.
Our military won what was winnable is such a situation. Our politicians finally got us out of a untennable position. If you want to classify that as winning and losing, go ahead.
That’s a good question, Phantom.
I was just throwing out a ballpark based on the “more than half of all Americans live in their own homes.”
Not sure what the exact figures are . . .
“our politicians finally got us out of a untennable position.”
Phantom, it became untennable directly BECAUSE of the politcal position. Our politicians directed each bombing raid.
Politic’s ruled the war, instead of military leaders seeking victory.
Damn John F. Kennedy for getting us into it and LBJ for directing it!
And, since someone brought it up, I have owned before.
I am divorced, with 5 kids, I travel frequently, I own 2 businesses.
I Write off much of my rent on my taxes.
Actually, that is more of a deduction, on C rather than A, dollar for dollar.
Anyway.
I am waiting.
I am a “bottom feeder” ready to pounce when I find another place.
It is a good time to buy.
— Or it will be soon.
—-
Do any of you libs find it the least bit creepy that JR researches other Bloggers, like we are candidates or something?
I will compare my tax return against his last 3 put together.
I am sure I pay more income tax, every year, than his car is worth.
Still, he takes shots at me for renting an apartment 3 Blocks from my children, that I can also use as a business office, when I am in town, and which is also close to Rainbows United, for my disabled grandchild?
Whatever.
Quoth paulthecon:
“waaaahhhhhh!”
“It is a good time to buy.
— Or it will be soon.”
Vulture.
And research what?
You bragged your name and middle initial.
Precocious of you.
My “research” was a 15 second glance at a phone book.
Econ101
I have a brother who could do much better than what he doing for a living/location. He too, is divorced.
It is more important to him, despite the huge payments he is making to his X, to be close to his children than the possibilities financially elsewhere.
He has much frustration and anger with this.
But I respect him for despite all the crap the X throws at him, and all the rejection from the kids due to her - he put his kids first.
Hang in there and you are not alone. Someday, we are hoping the kids grow up and realize that dad was made life decisions for them.
Econ101
Posted February 9, 2008 at 11:27 pm | Permalink
Capn
Actually, our military did win in Vietnam.
Our politicians lost Vietnam.
yes, of course we did.
and, we have 52,000 dead american kids to prove it.
only a neo-Con would claim the military won in nam.
i bet bush the idiot agrees with you.
where was bush during nam.
oh yeah… drunk, high on coke, and awol in alabama.
let’s see, where can we invade next to waste more kids lives and a kijillion tax payer dollars.
the rich don’t mind since bush has saved them so much in taxes.
eCon101
And, Hillary was on retainer, for $2,000.00 a month, to Madison Guarantee Savings and Loan.
i remember neil bush was paid a million to hang around a criminal s&l in colorado.
whitewater… lmao.
does this crap ever end??
you forgot to mention vince foster and monica this time around.
eCon 101
However, it is still easier for someone to buy or sell a home, today, than it was during the term of Jimmy Carter.
yeah, that’s it, news from last year.
it WAS easier before bush’s pals loaned money to every “buyer” they could talk into signing totally fasle loan apps.
1. get the loan fees
2. give some money to the republicans
3. skip town.
hey y’all
we be havin aahhh well it’s lookin you know it’s a big ol’ real estate boom here in ahhh ameeraca… bush 2007.
K P
Did we win WW1?
Did we win WW2?
What were our casualties, in those wars?
The Vietcong NEVER won a battle, in Vietnam.
The North Vietnamese Army never won a single battle, in Vietnam.
The American Military won every major conflict, in Vietnam.
—–
How can you hold Bush responsible for any of the mortgage issues?
This is absurd.
By the way, look at the Real Estate and Mortgage Lending PAC’s.
They always give heavily to Democrats.
AmWay
Thanks
Much appreciated.
Off to the hospital again gang.
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