The U.S. Air Force’s stunning decision to award a $40 billion refueling tanker contract to a foreign company is a bitter blow to Boeing Co. — and to Wichita, which stood to gain hundreds of jobs here from the project.
If this decision is truly in the best interests of the country, Kansans can live with it. But the Air Force has some explaining to do.
The decision flies in the face of Boeing’s five decades of dominance and proven excellence in building military tankers.
The Boeing proposal would have sustained more than 44,000 stateside jobs, including more than 1,000 jobs at Boeing Wichita and its area subcontractors. The EADS/Northrop Grumman Corp. proposal would create only about half that many U.S. jobs.
One industry analyst said the Air Force judged the EADS/Northrop KC-30 proposal to be superior on four out of five criteria. One key factor: The KC-30 design was able to carry 23 percent more fuel or cargo, giving it a clear advantage in refueling missions.
128 Comments
Gee thanks Todd T. !!!!
I guess Todd can concentrate on stopping needle exchange programs and making homosexuality illegal now that he doesn’t have to focus on tanker deals anymore.
Great representation from the Kansas Republican party.
What a bunch of losers!
It’s going to be one expensive project as Kit Managers all over the Air Force world are going to have to restock with EADS parts. Then Technicians and Engineers will have to be retrained to add to the new and different design.
Pilots will have to be retrained. Any major refits or outfitting will have be done at EADs facilities.
The parts and new orders will be tied to the EURO.
A lot of things wrong with this decision.
Yes, the Air Force has much explaining to do.
With a Congressman and a Senator in their pocket, Boeing STILL could not pull off this deal.
Their offer must have sucked big time.
Boeing had everything going for themselves and they screwed it up anyway.
Greed? Incompetence? Stupidity?
We may never know, but they really messed up this time.
Too bad Boeing’s corruption got the better of them. I wonder what Tankerless Todd will have to say about this fiasco.
WSC – all of the above!
Follow the money…Sam and Todd are hicks, just like the dumbfoks they represent.
Can you say jobs for the gulf coast, with the plant in Mobile labor cost will be less than overpaid Seattle or Wichita workers. What will Todd T do now look for gays in pro baseball.
According to the Republican matra the more jobs that are sent overseas the better our economy gets. What could be better than spending billions on wasteful military spending that doesn’t invest in our infrastructure and the profits go to a foreign land so they can invest in their infrastructure and take more jobs away in the future?
Kansas decided to vote for Republicans in a Congress where they’d be the minority. Stupid Republicans get what they ask for.
Thanks John M. for the outstanding job you did for the French aerospace industry. You created a lot of jobs for them, what a patriotic hero you are. Thanks Todd, Pat and Sam for a job well done. You did a great job for Kansas. Don’t forget to vote for your great American Presidential candidate and State representative next election.
Doug are really that stupid or is it just an act? Republicans have never said that the more jobs that go over seas the better our economy is. Your hatred of all things republican has clouded your better judgement. Losing the tanker deal sucks but it in no way reflects badly on Todd Tiahart who has represented his district so well for as long as he has served. My guess is that the blame really lies with the Pelosi, Reid lead Congress who would do just about anything to sell out this Country
Whether we’re buying Tankers or TV’s, Americans have focused only on price, and lost sight of the big picture. What happened to brand (or national) loyalty? Just save a buck, and who cares who it affects! Keep this up, and Boeing will go the way of Zenith, RCA, American Motors, etc. This is a sad day indeed. Not only for Wichita and Boeing, but for the whole country. Wait 5 years when we are in some small squabble with a 3rd World country, and France opposes us. Try to get spare parts then! This is bad!
“The KC-45A Tanker aircraft will be assembled at new, state-of-the-art manufacturing facilities in Mobile, Ala., and will employ 25,000 workers at 230 U.S. companies. The KC-45A’s refueling systems will be built at new facilities in Bridgeport, W.Va., and delivered to the KC-45A Production Center for aircraft integration. ”
So, West Virginia and Alabama are not part of the U.S. anymore?
“One key factor: The KC-30 design was able to carry 23 percent more fuel or cargo, giving it a clear advantage in refueling missions.”
There’s your reason. The French simply had the better and more capable aircraft.
I have been studying this one all day. Been a bit distracted by it, actually.
The financial press says that the Northrup/EADS deal will provide roughly HALF the US jobs as the Boeing deal.
I do think that this has much to do with politics, and with Nancy P and Harry R.
Also, what was Todd Tiahrt supposed to do, exactly? He has lobbied hard, he has done as good a job as anyone could possibly do.
Boeing had someone go to jail over this deal.
That was not Todd Tiahrts fault.
Unfortunately, it seems like the assembly workers are being punished for the sins of a very few, in upper management.
One other thing: the blueprints often dont match the final product real well.
Wait for all of the extra “specs” to be added on by the airforce, just see if the space required, for all the equipment and electronics, actually leaves room for “23% more cargo” — We shall see.
And, Ben, on a previous thread you said that EADS deserved this contract, if they had a better product.
If, Indeed, that is how you still feel, and if, indeed, EADS does have a “better product” (I doubt that) — then how is it Tiahrt’s fault that Boeing lost?
“I do think that this has much to do with politics, and with Nancy P and Harry R.”
Nice TRY paulie.
The French plane was superior.
Perhaps if Boeing had not been screwing around and messing with their engineeers and workers these last several years, they would have gotten a better design. People who are uneasy in their work do not do their best work.
JR when you have friends on the unemployment line tell them it’s because the “The French simply had the better and more capable aircraft.”
This is just like allowing OPEC to control our fuel supply. When will we wake up and realize it doesn’t matter if you are democrat or republican our country is in crisis and we had better face the fact.
Go ahead with your insane attacks on Tiahrt, Brownback and Roberts. When they are gone and so are the jobs then we can finally look at the real problems.
Where is the uber-con outrage? We’re outsourcing our safety to France? Come on you mouth-breathers, what’s up?
http://www.airbus.com/en/worldwide/airbus_in_france.html
Look at the problems Airbus is already having. Their capital is spent. Will we as a nation have to pay them upfront so they afford to build the tankers.
Remember for every manufacturing job we lose we lose 5 peripheral jobs. So for those gloating over ‘Tanker Todd’ losing this deal – what exactly are you glad about?
By the way I forgot to put this in my last post – How many of you would want the lowest bidder do your guadruple bypass surgery?
But it’s ok for our military. Shades of things to come??
ksgrm
I am hardly at fault for incompetent management at Boeing!
Maybe they should have been researching their competition instead of…
moving their corporate headquarters
Splitting off their civilian division
And otherwise stirring the pot with their labor force.
Where is your outrage Steven Davis?
Oh nm, I forgot, you enjoy when the U.S. sends jobs overseas.
My bad.
germ
Where have you been the last seven years while you Pubes fokked everything up?!?
(CNN) — Airbus confirmed Wednesday that it will cut 10,000 jobs across its European operations as it struggled against a weak dollar and costly delays to its flagship A380 superjumbo.
German Airbus workers were disbelieving and furious as the Franco-German planemaker said thousands of jobs would be axed at three German plants to cut costs.
The European plane maker said it will sell or close facilities at Saint-Nazaire-Ville in France and Germany’s Nordenham and Varel. Operations at Filton in Britain, Meaulte in France and Nordenham in Germany would be thrown open to investors.
CEO Louis Gallois said the four-year restructuring plan would see 3,700 jobs go from Germany, 4,300 from France, 1,600 from the United Kingdom, and 400 from Spain.
Gallois said Airbus had been hit hard by the weak dollar, the currency in which it trades its planes, but was also burdened by high costs, poor communication and inefficiency.
Development costs for the A380 — the Airbus superjumbo project that has been beset by major delays — had placed a significant drain on the company, Gallois said.
It also has also struggled to shoulder development of the A350, its $15.3 billion…
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/02/28/airbus/index.html
Yes this is what we need to do prop up a struggling Euro. France can always use the help of the US and it appears we are just stupid enough to provide it.
There Steven is that enough outrage for you?
Kansas stay in that safe little world you are in where nothing bad ever happens. Keep thinking that dems are good and repubs are bad. Keep pretending that when Barak and/or Hillary take over all of our problems will be solved. But don’t give me you idiocy about this decision. I’m not buying.
“Low bid”?
“One industry analyst said the Air Force judged the EADS/Northrop KC-30 proposal to be superior on four out of five criteria”
Boeing screwed the pooch. And no, I’m not happy about it.
The Air Force picked what they thought was the superior plane. This will probably happen more and more as American manufacture is increasingly disrespected.
“Development costs for the A380 — the Airbus superjumbo project that has been beset by major delays — had placed a significant drain on the company, Gallois said.”
And in Europe too, workers pay the price when management screws up.
Germ
Nobody gives a rat’s ass what you think anyway.
You will one day die and no one will care.
JR did you look at the problems Airbus had with the planes they are currently building. What makes you think that magically since this one will be build for the good ole USofA it will be perfect?
They are idiots in every profession and I think we have stumbled on a whole nest of them in this decision. Probably someone dreaming of all of the trips to France he/she will get to take when production gets underway.
Hilarious – blame this on Pelosi and Reid – right – and just what did they have to do with the AIR FORCE decision to purchase from Airbus rather than Boeing?
What a massive pile of bullshit from the Haters in the Republican Party.
Ok don’t blame Boeing. Blame the Air Force?
Boeing got complacent. They made a lot of money on mods and spares for the KC 135 fleet.
They got entrenched. And they didn’t do R&D.
Hey from where I sit, the tanker fleet didn’t NEED upgrading.
WS I haven’t mentioned Pelosi or Reed. I don’t know the politics of it. I’m sure it will come out. My remarks are to the heart of this decision. American jobs once more are being outsourced and what are we arguing about. Which party is right. Whose fault is it. What we should be doing in flooding our congress and senate with letters, emails, phonecalls, smoke signals anything we can do to let them know this is a no deal.
Until we start standing up in solidarity and outrage over the politicians selling us out we are sitting ducks.
“Oh nm, I forgot, you enjoy when the U.S. sends jobs overseas.”
Please. Make up shit I did not say and then criticise me for it.
Your MO is just too predictable.
Try something else.
“WS I haven’t mentioned Pelosi or Reed”
Who the Hell said you did? Damn…….
“My guess is that the blame really lies with the Pelosi, Reid lead Congress who would do just about anything to sell out this Country”
Chris from Mac Town
Posted February 29, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Jeez, when I did that, you ACCUSED me of lying.
Hope they made the contract in dollars, and not euros or we’ll be paying alot more! Funny the specs they measured by were changed abruptly about two weeks ago, the rumor was that the change favored boeing, apparently that was disinformation.
After the way boeing screwed the wichita civilian aircraft workers, I have no love for them. Even so, to see such a major contract 40bil. with another potential 60 bil. in orders to other countries, is very disturbing. Eads has never built a tanker that I’m aware of. There will be a shortage of skilled workers in Alabama, most likely be solved by importing some Europeans.
What makes it worse, the Europeans blocked Spirit from buying the spun off plants from Airbus, and yet we reward them with a major defense contract. Freedom Fries my ass, republicans love the French.
WS what is your problem? Not me that’s for sure. I’m just saying we need to be united on this issue and stop zinging each other.
If I stepped on your sore toe I’m sorry. I am very upset that this was allowed to happen whoever was on the oversight committee.
Excuse me liberals, but explain this to me:
It IS Todd Tiahrts Fault, that Boeing did NOT win.
However, it is NOT Pelosi or Reids Fault, that Northrupp/EADS DID win?
—–
WSClark
Posted February 29, 2008 at 9:36 pm | Permalink
Hilarious – blame this on Pelosi and Reid – right – and just what did they have to do with the AIR FORCE decision to purchase from Airbus rather than Boeing?
What a massive pile of bullshit from the Haters in the Republican Party
—–
You want to blame Tiahrt.
You want to claim, at the same time, that the Democrat leaders, in Congress, had nothing to do with this.
HUH?
I am willing ot believe that this whole mess is the fault of some Boeing Execs perhaps AND some Air Force purchasing mistakes.
I honestly do NOT believe that AirBus can do a better job.
As stated previously, that “extra cargo space” will proabably not be as great as expected, and Airbus is bound to have future problems, in production, as they have in the past.
Sorry germ but now you want to be united?
BS.
You are a pube and what you have to say isn’t worth rat’s piss.
“Analysts say the tanker award could be announced any time after Pentagon officials meet Monday to sign off on the Air Force’s tanker purchase plan.
The contract – worth $30 billion to $40 billion over 10 to 15 years – is the first of three deals to replace the Air Force’s entire fleet of nearly 600 tankers, which allow aircraft to refuel without landing.
For Wall Street, the award’s potential really takes off with the follow-on contracts likely going to the incumbent. As much as $100 billion over the next 30 years is at stake, says Loren Thompson, a defense industry analyst with Lexington Institute, a policy think tank.
Thompson said the Air Force will eventually buy more than 400 new tankers to modernize its full fleet in “the biggest new aircraft contract anywhere in the world.” The Air Force currently flies 531 Eisenhower-era tankers and another 59 tankers built in the 1980s by McDonnell Douglas, now part of Boeing.
“This is one of the biggest defense contracts to come along in decades and will be for future decades,” said Scott Hamilton, an aviation industry consultant based outside of Seattle. “You have to take the plums when they come along.”
Any guesses why this was released late on a Friday night instead of waiting until Monday morning as it was planned?
I smell a rat in the woodpile.
You know Kansas you aren’t worth arguing with and if that is what you want this dialogue with someone else. I don’t play that game anymore.
Kansas
I notice that several polical leaders, from KANSAS are speaking with a unified voice on this issue.
I think you are being petty. This hurts Wichita. This hurts Kansas.
KSGRM is making the case that this also hurts the Air Force.
KSGRM is making the case that this also hurts America.
Exactly what point are you trying to make?
The only message I am getting is that you wish to behave like a jerk.
“I honestly do NOT believe that AirBus can do a better job.”
And you know better than the AIR FORCE how?
“You want to blame Tiahrt.”
And I said that when?
“You want to claim, at the same time, that the Democrat leaders, in Congress, had nothing to do with this.”
The Rossell Debate Techniques…………..
Attribute false statements.
Condemn the same false statements.
Defy opponent to defend false statements.
Condemn opponent for not defending statements that they didn’t make in the first place.
Claim victory.
“More passengers, more cargo, more fuel offload, more patients that we can carry, more availability, more flexibility and more dependability,” Gen. Arthur Lichte, the commander of the Air Mobility Command at Scott Air Force Base in Illinois, said of the Northrop Grumman-EADS KC-45A tanker.”
I love the ‘more dependability’ claim since the one plane they do build has a very poor record on dependability.
“Any guesses why this was released late on a Friday night instead of waiting until Monday morning as it was planned?”
Actually, the announcement was to have been made this PAST Wednesday.
You know I have accepted one fact tonight. The libs on this blog are driven by the desire for the common good of the US. Instead they want to have a lib/con argument abut everything.
Hopefully both libs and cons in DC will come together and say enough. This is the second largest military contract ever awarded – worth at least $100Billion over the next 30 years. That doesn’t even take into account the jobs we will lose because of this.
You just hang around and argue WS and Kansas. I have a life I need to get to.
WS
Please scroll upwards.
Please also notice other comments, on other Boeing threads.
Please remember that you are not the only “liberal” poster on this Blog.
You just, rightly, made the case that you did not say somethings.
However, you can not claim that those things were never said, by anyone else.
You also can not claim that I addressed all of my comments, on this thread, to you specifically.
YES, WS, you say it was NOT the fault of Reed or Pelosi. However, other Dems have claimed that it WAS the fault of Tiahrt.
If, WS, you feel that politics played NO role, in this decision, please scold your fellow Democrats, and tell them to stop laying the blame on Tiahrt.
If, however, it WAS a political decision?
Well, then, we can all point fingers.
WS I still say why was it released so late on a Friday night? This isn’t accidental. It happens all of the time when you know what you are announcing isn’t going to go over well.
“However, you can not claim that those things were never said, by anyone else.”
Rossell, you ignorant slut, I am responsible for what I post, no one else.
Nice try – please review the Rossell Debate Techniques – and tell me where I am wrong.
You addressed your comments at 9:53 PM to me – condemning comments that I did NOT make.
As usual.
Cris from Mac town get a grip; President Bush is the Commander in Chief not Polsi or Reid. President Bush and his advisors are responsible for the decisions of the military not congress. Remember it was John M. that ranted and raved about contract not Polsi or Reid. Your hatred for all Democrats has blinded you from the reel truth.
“WS I still say why was it released so late on a Friday night?”
Ask the freakin’ Air Force – they made the damned decision.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh……………
And yes, I meant Democrat Senator Harry Reid and Democrat Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi.
Do you really thing that the Senate Majority Leader and the Speaker of the House had NOTHING to do with this decision?
Ok.
Neither did Tiahrt.
Tiahrt did the best he could do, to give Boeing a fair hearing.
People have gone to jail, in the past, for working “too hard” for Boeing on Tanker deals.
The Airforce, IMHO, looked at blueprints and promises, and NOT at the actual ability to produce what was promised, at the right price and at the right time, with the right specs.
I do not think that Airbus will be able to keep up its end of the deal.
Why not?
Because Airbus has had trouble with its promises, in the past.
“People have gone to jail, in the past, for working “too hard” for Boeing on Tanker deals.”
Working too hard = taking bribes and promises of cushy jobs after leaving the Air Force.
That is “working too hard?”
Democrats
David R. Obey, Wisconsin, Chair
John P. Murtha, Pennsylvania
Norman D. Dicks, Washington
Alan B. Mollohan, West Virginia
Marcy Kaptur, Ohio
Peter J. Visclosky, Indiana
Nita M. Lowey, New York
José E. Serrano, New York
Rosa L. DeLauro, Connecticut
James P. Moran, Virginia
John W. Olver, Massachusetts
Ed Pastor, Arizona
David E. Price, North Carolina
Chet Edwards, Texas
Robert E. “Bud” Cramer, Jr., Alabama
Patrick J. Kennedy, Rhode Island
Maurice D. Hinchey, New York
Lucille Roybal-Allard, California
Sam Farr, California
Jesse L. Jackson, Jr., Illinois
Carolyn C. Kilpatrick, Michigan
Allen Boyd, Florida
Chaka Fattah, Pennsylvania
Steven R. Rothman, New Jersey
Sanford Bishop, Georgia
Marion Berry, Arkansas
Barbara Lee, California
Tom Udall, New Mexico
Adam Schiff, California
Michael Honda, California
Betty McCollum, Minnesota
Steve Israel, New York
Tim Ryan, Ohio
C.A “Dutch” Ruppersberger, Maryland
Ben Chandler, Kentucky
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Florida
Ciro Rodriguez, Texas
Republicans
Jerry Lewis, California, Ranking Member
C.W. Bill Young, Florida
Ralph Regula, Ohio
Harold Rogers, Kentucky
Frank R. Wolf, Virginia
James T. Walsh, New York
David L. Hobson, Ohio
Joe Knollenberg, Michigan
Jack Kingston, Georgia
Rodney P. Frelinghuysen, New Jersey
Todd Tiahrt, Kansas
Zach Wamp, Tennessee
Tom Latham, Iowa
Robert B.Aderholt, Alabama
Jo Ann Emerson, Missouri
Kay Granger, Texas
John E. Peterson, Pennsylvania
Virgil H. Goode, Jr., Virginia
Ray LaHood, Illinois
Dave Weldon, Florida
Michael K. Simpson, Idaho
John Abney Culberson, Texas
Mark Steven Kirk, Illinois
Ander Crenshaw, Florida
Dennis R. Rehberg, Montana
John Carter, Texas
Rodney Alexander, Louisiana
Ken Calvert, California
Jo Bonner, Alabama
These are the members of the Appropriations Committee for the Defense. If you are as angry as I am about this email them all with your opinion. Send the list to all of your email friends and ask them to do the same. If you don’t care just ignore it.
“The libs on this blog are driven by the desire for the common good of the US.”
ksgrm – Posted February 29, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Thank you, it is about time that someone acknowledge that fact.
WS
I opened with:
“Econ101
Posted February 29, 2008 at 9:53 pm | Permalink
Excuse me liberals, but explain this to me:
It IS Todd Tiahrts Fault, that Boeing did NOT win.
However, it is NOT Pelosi or Reids Fault, that Northrupp/EADS DID win?
—-
I then adressed your, specific comment as an example of someone who says that the decision was not political.
no offense was intended
This is the result of Kansas being a solidly Repub. state. McCain will definitely win Alabama, and yes, he can still count on Kansas. Makes one wonder “What’s the Matter with Kansas?”
ksgrm posted February 29, 2008 at 9:18 pm
“This is just like allowing OPEC to control our fuel supply.”
OPEC nations have most of the world’s oil — and it is also very cheap to produce, compared to U.S. and other oil reserves.
The only way that the U.S. can “control” OPEC is cut our oil consumption.
OPEC wants the U.S. to produce more domestically.
Then they can cut their production, maintain high profits from their low-cost oil, and make their reserves last longer. We deplete our reserves faster, and become more dependent on OPEC in the future.
If McCain wins I look for the Airforce One replacements to be European made also.
Give it a rest, Paul, you do this ALL the time.
The Rossell Debate Techniques………………..
Same story, different day.
Bush got the ball rolling with the replacement for the presidential helicopters, with the selection of a foreign supplier. Where will it stop, with foreign made tanks and weapons?
Where will it stop, with foreign made tanks and weapons?
Phantom: It doesn’t stop. We are a consumer nation. Our economy is no longer driven by production or industry. We only have a service driven economy left.
Get over it.
I guess I meant Air Force
The author of “Megatrends” did a great disservice to the U.S.
w s clerk keepz ignorants slutz to servise the warts on his diseased anus
“w s clerk keepz ignorants slutz to servise the warts on his diseased anus”
Good job, McCluer, as usual, you make yourself look stupid.
At best.
I luvs the dog penus
This country has gone to shit because you dicks want to fight about stupid f u cking shit that don’t matter. And this is what happens when you let the wolves shepard the flock. Wake up….yeah f ucking right. I see you trying to “come together” now when it’s too late. Do you see a difference in these two parties? I don’t see my candidates name anywhere on that list, why? Because he actually votes for the fu cking country. You people just keep on voting and agreeing and toeing the line for the people that could give a f uck less about you. Pretty soon it won’t matter anymore.
Back on the meds for you, McCreepy.
And you Bush apologists, I’m officially sick of you jack offs. Ignorant fu cking toads.
you make yourself look stupid.
WS Clark, what’s up with your silly posts?
You do know that the brain cells you lost during your dope smoking years can never be replaced?
How’s that short term memory working for ya?
Phantom
“Megatrends” was not a mandate, it was a prediction.
Also, Megatrends kind of predicted Bill Clinton.
“The definition of leadership will someone who can figure out which way the crowd is moving, and run fast enough to get in front of them”
Not an exact quote, but I do remember words to that effect, when I read the book about 25 years ago.
Back on the meds for you, McCreepy.
Are you selling again Clarkie? What’s an ounce cost now days?
Can u give me a blow Clark
u have kind lipz
The military should always buy American, even when it isn’t the best.
What was wrong with the existing tanker fleet?
Come on you can do better than that. At least stick your hand down my pants.
50 years old. It can last longer.
“Come on you can do better than that.”
If you are going to steal my nic, McCluer, at least use the same capitalization as I do….. it’s…..
WSClark.
The B52 is still flying.
“How’s that short term memory working for ya?”
Just fine, McCluer, how’s it working out for you, trying to lose your virginity with a real woman and not just a blow up doll?
The military likes new toys.
They liked the new French made toy better.
End of story.
Sorry Wichita, apparently you aren’t going to get anymore handouts from the FED’s. Looks like you better get a garden going for food. But be careful, you are about to run out of water too.
Hopefully, your city government will tone down spending to better reflect the slowing economy.
Otherwise, you will go further in debt.
And you won’t qualify for any bailouts as other freeloaders are getting.
JR
Fuel economy, perhaps could be addressed by new engines, but still a factor.
Age? Hairline cracks are a problem with commercial airlines, after long periods of time. Same too, for tankers.
Maintenance costs, with older equipment, always a factor.
IF we had a major disaster with an old KC-135 Tanker?
I am pretty sure the media would focus on the AGE of the current fleet.
Also, the FIRST B-52 Bombers are not in service, anymore. That model was modified many times over.
50 year old planes. Any B-17’s still being used? Or B-24’s? If not we should bring them back. They are mothballed in Arizona.
Thanks for the link Clark.
http://www.timmmedical.com/
The fundamental blame lies with Boeing.
They fell short in R&D.
Too busy hunting the bottom line.
And it sucks better then Chas, if you can believe that.
I keep saying that there is nothing our Government could do that could surprise me. I’ve been proven wrong once again. Wasn’t it the Republicans who just a few years ago hated the French so much they renamed French Fries “Freedom” fries? Now we are going to award a French company one of the largest defense contracts in history? How can it be in America’s best interest to pour billions of dollars into another countries economy? Someone please explain it to me.
There are three things that our country must be self sufficient in producing, and those are defense equipment, energy, and food! We are failing in all three! This is the “global” theory at work and it is simply wrong. Economists use their theory to persuade our leaders that it is in our interest to trade with anybody because if another country produces what is perceived to be a better product, but more often just a cheaper product, then we all benefit. Their theories simply ignore the fact that the world is not always at peace, and when we are at war, or even trying to use tough diplomacy to persuade other nations, we have to be self sufficient in the big 3 mentioned above. If we are not, we are a very weak nation and will eventually fall. I can’t believe that we don’t have a law that says any military purchases have to be with American companies. Before some of you say that the foreign competition keeps our military companies producing top notch products, think again. Competition is not needed in this case, do you think American workers and companies would produce inferior products for our warriors to use??? No Way!!! This decision needs to wake everyone up to the fallacy related to a global marketplace. Some things should never be out sourced to foreign owned companies! You all need to contact your representatives and make this a mission!
Does anyone think it ironic that Congress spent billions on an economic surplus and now they are spending billions to stimulate the French economy. Here’s a novel idea (and Republicans haven’t thought of anything novel since the 1860s), just don’t waste the money on the tankers. We are spending over a trillion dollars on the military this year so how about trimming the wasteful budget by $800 billion?
We won’t be building unnecessary tankers but we can help prevent our economy from going further into the tank.
Made Man,
You are about the dumbest one on here as is apparent with your schizophrenic new name, you’ve been here before. Do you think this is all about Wichita? Can’t you see (although with your simple brain activity, I doubt it) that this is part of a bigger picture? Do you think sending off billions of dollars of American productivity is good for our already failing economy? No, you, like most of your fellow idiot Neo-Con buddies here are too STUPID to understand that we could have used this deal to better our circumstances. What does it say to the rest of the world when we don’t even trust our own people to build our planes? You “made man”, are the REAL “UnAmerican” piece of trash. You and your kind, all prefer to sell our country out “for the low ball price” than keep the money here (but hey, at least half of it it’s here, right?). All in all, I suppose this let’s the world know that we’re ready for that World Government now. And yeah, you too smart-for-the-rest-of-us jack ass, I am growing a garden. And remember, when shit goes South for real (cause you ain’t seen nothin’ yet) I’ll be thinking of all of you when I got something to eat. Oh, I forgot, you’re a “made man”, so you have no worries. When I think of made man, gangster mafiosi comes to mind. That would be fitting, cause they only got loyalty “to the family” and the rest of “your” country ain’t family.
For those that still care, have a look at this.
Later.
where’s T-Heart when the people of Kansas need him??
out playing golf with a group of insurance executives, or the airbus ceo??
of course the republican government is gonna pass up an american company for european airbus.
I have wondered for a long time just how much Tanker Todd was involved in setting up that improper job offer that cost Boeing the original contract. Anybody know what his involvement was in that debacle?
What?
Awarded to a company outside our country?
Our millitary is outsourcing it’s work now?
What kind of lame brain plan is that???
Cars, toys, food, and now our millitary work!
We need a new government.
Unbelievable…..
It’s common practice in Washington to pass a bill, or approve a program, then NOT FUND IT.
Maybe that can work in this case?
“And, Ben, on a previous thread you said that EADS deserved this contract, if they had a better product.
If, Indeed, that is how you still feel, and if, indeed, EADS does have a “better product” (I doubt that) — then how is it Tiahrt’s fault that Boeing lost?”
Real simple Paul: If Boeing had concentrated on developing a quality proposal instead of relying on Tiahrt’s and others’ political connections they might have won the bidding fair and square. Former Boeing employee Tiahrt (government procurement BTW) should not have led his bosses at Boeing to believe they could win by connections and subterfuge. He should have pressed them to do the proposal right from the beginning.
Tanker Todd claimed credit when the Tankers were coming to Boeing…he gets credit when the deal blows up in his pants.
If it happenas to you…it’s your fault. A rule of life that Pubes don’t want to accept.
“Airbus confirmed Wednesday that it will cut 10,000 jobs across its European operations”
Yes, ksgrm, they are OUT-SOURCING many of those jobs – to the United States.
“I do think that this has much to do with politics, and with Nancy P and Harry R.”
No Paul – it ahs more to do with Sen. Sessions (R-AL). HIS state is getting a big chunk of the jobs.
Why should anybody be shocked at this outcome? If politicians didn’t want foreign companies winning contracts, why do you let them bid?
The Governor nor either Senator tried to stop “Outsourcing” at all!!! Boeing has the right to be upset. The Governor and Senators are only using this demise to Personal Agenda for “VOTES”. Consider a “Call Back Petition” and remove Governor Sebelius. Place me, Herbert West III on this Petition as the choice for the citizens of Kansas. I will be “YOUR” Governor, not the Governor of the Kansas Government and the Persoanl Agenda Crowd!!!! Herbert West III, e-mail me I will send you my thoughts and ideas to strengthen “OUR” state. Judge me after you read about me. HLWIII west.herb@yahoo.com wen2k.com The wen2k.com might still be in maintence. west.herb@yahoo.com still works.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Herbert West – why would I want YOU for governor? If we need to recall anyone it would be Tiahrt, Roberts, Brownback. THEY are the ones in the FEDERAL government.
If everyone would just step back and take off their blinders – our focus on Boeing Wichita it might add a little better perspective on this for you.
Our DoD is tasked with making decisions which will affect the war-fighting ability of our armed forces. Much of that, and probably most of it, involves projecting force deep into lands beyond a US controlled airstrip.
These tankers exist to project air power. Air power in support of our combat forces: our young men and women on the ground for much of it.
Do you want the best for them? What product will provide the greater ability to project our air power and succeed?
That is the real picture, which unfortunately is not what I’m reading in most posts above.
This decision was YEARS in the making. The military considered the political forces on them – had to know the impact and pressure on them to “buy American”. But despite that they picked a product they felt was best for winning in combat.
Again, take the blinders off. The Northrop-EADS tanker was ranked superior in 4 of 5 categories.
Northrop’s product is bigger, newer, has GREATER CAPACITY IN FUEL, PASSENGERS, AND CARGO.
Years in the planning, and years of evaluation.
Our men and women serving do NOT need another political decision. They need the bestest product money can buy.
Similiar to the MRAP vehicles in Iraq, which we all attacked the pentegon and Bush for NOT buying and rushing to our troops for IED protection. Do you want the best, or politically best?
Look outside yourself and Wichita.
Tanker contract: Boeing has the years of experience, technology, advanced engineering and success since 1946. Tankers are built here, the money stays here, the jobs stay here. If the contract hinges on the Mobil Ala. plant , I ‘m sure there is room for negotiation on this issue and other related items. Where is the experience in Tanker Technology with Northrup/EADS? Didn’t the cargo manufacturing end of EADS postpone the cargo shell for Northrop for 2 + years so that the passenger division could get a “grip” How many years of testing and reengineering are we in-for with Northrup/EADS. Things happen quicker now, time is of the essence, we cannot wait for lengthy testing programs from the “new kid on the block” temporary setbacks do not” Fly”. Politics , War issues , maintaining peace and of coarse– firstest with the moistest at a moments notice. Ah, where is the Strategic Air Command when the going gets ruff
AmWay – good points. I would add that EADS is moving much of their production ‘off-shore’ to a less costly location than Europe – the USA. So, more jobs than just the tanker will be created in the USA as they bring the mainframe construction to Alabama. And, last time I checked, AL is a part of the United States.
There is an old saying “cheaters don’t win.” Boeing cheated; so they didn’t win in the end. Blame Boeing and all those involved in that previous ‘behind-closed-doors’ tanker deal.
Slipway door. I’ll grant you Boeings experience.
Heck, I’ll march in their parade and be at the dedication for a statue in their honor.
Reputation, experience, and track record certainly counts. But that does not make their product better than the competition in the overall comparison.
Reading these comments really does show the ignorance and narrow mindness of residents in Wichita. Tiahart is a very low ranking congressman. He has little clout, and really has never done anything substantial for our district.
Amway you nailed it at 9:07.
Those who cry about Boeing losing this contract are more concerned about their own back pocket, then getting the best equipment for our troops. (Now all of a sudden they are concerned about their back pockets!)
These same crying people are the ones buying foreign cars that get better gas mileage, yet they want our military to buy 2nd rate equipment in order to buy American.
Hypocrites.
The Air Force brass sold our country out, pure and simple.
Here we go again with you dipshits waving your Chinese made American flags telling us that you’re the real American heroe’s and that you know best how to “support our troops”. I’d tell all of the troops that are over there now and maybe getting ready to get out and will be needing civilian work, “stay there, go to France or Asia, because we’re sending all of our work there”.
OPEC wants the U.S. to produce more domestically.
Then they can cut their production, maintain high profits from their low-cost oil, and make their reserves last longer. We deplete our reserves faster, and become more dependent on OPEC in the future.
-Cosmos
Not much faith in renewable energy to offset the future demand for oil Cosmos? How about getting off of OPEC’s gravy train RIGHT NOW and letting the slack be picked up by alternatives?
If for some reason, the US would Ban foreign importation of oil and only use domestically mined sources, the price of oil would skyrocket in the US which would drive more investment into alternative energy AND lower the consumption of oil. The price that OPEC sells it’s oil for would decline since their biggest customer just boycotted them. They would be making MUCH less money on a fuel that is going away in the future.
In the mean time, our economy is forced to adapt to consuming less fossil fuels which is only a good thing.
Your economics does not make sense.
The mission statement/specs. were changed about two weeks before the award. If Boeing had known they wanted bigger/newer they could have proffered the 777 a much better aircraft than Airbus’s offer. As McCan likes to say ‘the fix was in’.
OK folks, lets slow down a bit here….this was solely a POLITICAL deal. Had nothing to do with Boeing or EADS technology.
It was a PAYOFF to Sarkozy, the new “pro-US” president of France…..for being Pro America.
Same as these things have been for years. The STATE Dept was in charge, NOT the military.
The decision had been made for months.
These same crying people are the ones buying foreign cars that get better gas mileage, yet they want our military to buy 2nd rate equipment in order to buy American.
-Max
Car’s aren’t going to defend our country when fighting foreign foes. Tankers do. American autonomy just got a wee bit smaller with this deal. We are becoming more and more dependent on foreigners for everything. Buying our cars from foreign sources is one thing. Buying military equipment from a foreign source is entirely different since it takes away control of our national defense.
The Boeing 767 had its first flight in September 1981, while the Airbus A330 first flew in August 1997. The Boeing is nearly 20 years older than the Airbus – why should our tax dollars go to support ongoing purchases of an obsolete airplane?
Second point – the US wants to export defense equipment and sell it abroad, but plenty of people seem to think that the US should not allow foreign companies to sell defense equipment to the US. Er – exactly why is that?
rfl posted March 1, 2008 at 12:13 pm
“Not much faith in renewable energy to offset the future demand for oil Cosmos?”
Read all the NRDC pages in my post here,
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/02/bush-needs-to-get-out-and-drive-more/#comment-304852
And read all of the solutions suggested in this report,
http://www.oilendgame.com/ReadTheBook.html
rfl posted March 1, 2008 at 1:17 pm
“Car’s aren’t going to defend our country when fighting foreign foes. Tankers do.”
We would not be fighting oil wars, if our cars got higher mpg.
Written in 1990,
‘Make Fuel Efficiency Our Gulf Strategy’
http://www.rmi.org/images/other/Security/S90-26_MakeFuelEffGulf.pdf
“Are we putting our kids in tanks because we didn’t put them in efficient cars? Yes: we wouldn’t have needed any oil from the Persian Gulf after 1985 if we’d simply kept on saving oil at the rate we did from 1977 through 1985.” (continues)
Plus we wouldn’t have the current energy crisis, our economy would be stronger, and we’d be putting much less GHG’s into Earth’s atmosphere.
The U.S. in a Global Country, it’s the New World Order!
Here’s an exerpt about what I’ve alluded to previously about changing the rules at the end of the game!
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Weeks before making a final decision, the U.S. Air Force changed criteria used to assess rival bids from Boeing Co (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and Northrop Grumman Corp (NOC.N: Quote, Profile, Research) for new refueling tankers, resulting in a lower score for Northrop, people familiar with the changes said on Thursday.
Three sources, who asked not to be named, said it was unclear how the lower score affected the Air Force’s overall assessment of the Northrop bid. It also was not immediately clear if Boeing’s score changed as a result.
Apparently, although it may have lowered airbus rating, it must have wiped boeng off the map.
Looks like the chickenshit is hiding out!
Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, scuttled an earlier attempt by the Air Force to award the contract to Boeing, opening the door for the Northrop-Airbus bid.
Senator McCain’s campaign spokeswoman referred calls to his Senate office, which could not be reached for comment.
I bet had boeing known the airforce was going to go by capacity they would have offered the 777.
“The Boeing 777 is more effircient that their competitors
300-seater Medium Range:
777-200A vs. A330-300:
Boeing. The 777 has advanatges in range, cargo capacity, fuel burn, and technological advancement.
Phantom
Give it up. You have posted nothing.
Boeing lost. End of story.
What is best for our military and defense of this nation is all that counts. Not Wichita.
YOu Republicans all scream for “free trade” no matter how much damage it does to the American worker and his living. You got your wish.
Mexicans to do the work that Americans don’t want to do; Europeans to do the work that Americans Do want to do.
I’d say this admin. just about has it covered!
When all the manufacturing jobs are gone, we can all sit around in our home offices selling each other ’services’.
From the Seattle Times:”Still, one possible avenue of protest concerns a late change to the computer model the Air Force used to assess the performance of the competing airplanes.
Northrop’s Meyer said his team was initially “disturbed by the timing” of the change but was persuaded that the adjustment was more accurate and “closer to our own analysis.”
Well Boeing probably deserves a slap because of the underhanded crap that went on a few years ago that cost them a contract. The US government does not forget.
I also look forward to the Airbus people getting ripped because of the Euro going in the toilet.
With all the Frenchmen working on it…its gonna smell real bad. Thanks Europe for your help in New Orleans.
Once they have their hooks in, I expect the contract to increase in cost to taxpayers, fixed contract or not.
I’d read Northrup attempted their first aerial refuelling of an f-16 friday, but didn’t see the results anywhere.
Just wondering, if I’m not mistaken, the idea behind KC-767 is to keep the 767 line open, since the civilian market for it has dried up quite a bit.
We Americans better wake up and smell the coffee! What in the HELL are these damn BUFFOONS in the Air Force thinking about–40 Billion Dollars going to France, I DON’T THINK SO! Especially when this Country can do this job at Boeing in Seattle, Washington (That by the way, Air Force, is in America!) Buffoons should be in a Circus with their ballons, not taking the Tax Payers hard earned money and giving it to France. What in the HELL is our Military Thinking–yes, I forgot, THEY ARE NOT THINKING, OR AT LEAST THEY ARE NOT THINKING ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE! We need to LOOK OUT FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY–WE NEED TO STOP THIS NOW! We need Lou Dobbs as OUR US PRESIDENT!
Free Trade my behind! The US Congress better get this one rectified and rectified real soon! If Boeing doesn’t get this contract, heads we roll at the BALLOT BOX!
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[...] Tanker contract a bitter blow Tanker contract a bitter blow Posted6:50 p.m. The U.S. Air Force’s stunning decision to award a $40 billion refueling tanker contract to a foreign company is a bitter blow to Boeing Co. — and to Wichita, which stood to gain hundreds of jobs here from the project. If this decision is truly in the best interests of the country, Kansans can live with it. But the Air Force has some explaining to do. The decision flies in the face of Boeing’s five decades of dominance and proven excellence in bui [...]