In the Democratic race, Hillary Clinton holds an edge over Barack Obama in the “superdelegates†— leaders and party officials pledged to a certain candidate. They could prove decisive, some say, if the delegate count remains split going into the convention.
Although superdelegates aren’t committed, the chances of them changing their allegiance is remote.
What could change that, this article points out, is if Obama wins more delegates in the primaries and caucuses.
Political scientist William Mayer of Northeastern University agreed that the party leadership likely would support the candidate who earned the most popular-vote delegates — otherwise they risk a popular revolt within the party.
“Do the superdelegates have the capacity to resist the choice of the overwhelming majority of primary voters and caucus participants? The answer, I think, is a clear ‘no.’â€
284 Comments
COULD THE KENYAN CRISIS BE REPLICATED IN USA
The 2000 USA general elections generated considerable controversy when the then Democratic candidate al gore accused President George Bush of election rigging. This accusation generated considerable tension among Al gore supporters. However, in his characteristic statesmanship, Al gore chose to settle the matter in court and when the ruling went against him; he gracefully conceded defeat and the matter ended there. However, one question that may be disturbing and that may beg for an answer is, supposing the cast then was President Bush against Barrack Obama? What would have been the likely scenario? Could we have for the first time in the history of electro politics in the USA witnessed massive riots and mass action across the cities in USA?
A number of clear parallels can be drawn between the campaign themes mounted by the ODM candidate Raila Odinga in Kenya last year and the current themes surrounding sen. Obama’s campaign. Raila Odinga’s election platform was change, and the economic empowerment for the so called “marginalized”. His core support groups were the youth especially the un- employed lot. His candidacy also appeared to enjoy massive support from the leading media houses and he was perceived as a media candidate. On the other hand Obama’s campaign platform is also anchored on the theme of change, economic empowerment for the youth and his campaign also appear to enjoy considerable support from some of the leading media house in USA and else where. His core group of supporters is also drawn from the youth. But what do the two have in common? Raila Odinga claims Obama is his cousin. Obama has never confirmed that.
Last years Kenya’s general elections were very close to call and many opinion polls done throughout the campaign period appeared to suggest a very close race. Most political observers believe that the ODM supporters were never prepared to loose the elections since expectations were too high. The ultimate announcement that President Kibaki had retained his seat was therefore a major shock to the majority youthful supporters of Raila Odinga. His assertion that the polls were rigged only served to trigger massive riots and violence that have never before been witnessed in this country long considered as an oasis of peace and stability. The massive riots and violence caught almost everybody totally unprepared. Most Kenyan’s have never in their wildest dreams anticipated such large scale incidents of violence looting and absolute mayhem bordering on complete collapse of the rule of law. It is however important to note that the run – away violence was greatly fueled by long and deep seated ethnic jealousness and mistrust that has taken roots in the last few decades in Kenya.
Back in the USA, the current primary race between Sen. Obama and Hillary Clinton appears very close and vicious. There is a very real possibility that the race may eventually go to the wire and most American’s have not carefully thought what that may portend to the supporters of both candidates. Court proceedings might be considered as an option by any of the aggrieved candidate, but the worst case scenario might be political tensions and perhaps riot incidents especially if rigging allegations are brought up by either of the two candidates. This scenario might be much worse if this is replicated at the main general elections latter on in November. The suspicion and mistrust that characterizes relationship between African American and the Latinos in USA could provide ready fuel for such an eventuality.
“superdelegates’….why does that make me think of the old “smoke filled rooms” and the deal making and the party bosses determining who will be the nominee? What happened to the idea of having the electorate choose the nominees?
Anthony in a word… NO, that is enough on that idea.
My opinion is that voters have said BOTH these nominees are FINE AND DANDY, we are proud of them, excited about our country’s future which will be in competent, capable hands. If the final choice needs to be made in a “smoke-filled room,” we will still have the best candidate who will become the best president! In fact I think they both gain needed skills during the race to become the Party’s choice.
This from Huffingtonpost.com –
[Cons] controlled the While House and Congress for 6 years. The country saw what you want to accomplish and are experiencing the impact of your policies. And guess what?
THEY THINK CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT STINKS.
Let’s start with the big one.
No one likes IRAQ. Between the shifting rationale for the war, the ever-increasing cost, the continued loss of American lives and the Iraqi’s inability to form any kind of meaningful government, Iraq was a bad idea all the way around. Period. Spin it how you like, you’re going to come up with the same answer.
Terry Schiavo: This was by far the clearest indication of what the religious right will do if they attain power. And it isn’t pretty. Let’s tackle this by showing how clearly this situation violated literally every core Republican belief.
“Republicans believe in state’s rights.” This situation was litigated for years at the state level, in an area of law that traditionally has happened at the state level. The religious right didn’t like the result, so they made it a federal issue.
“Republicans believe in individual rights.” Schiavo’s husband demonstrated in court that his wife wanted to die should her then current situation happen to her. That was her individual choice. A judge agreed. The religious right decided that just wasn’t good enough.
“Limited Federal Government”. The Republicans used the federal government to interject themselves into a family matter.
Katrina: This is what happens when people who don’t like government and don’t think it can work are put in charge.
The economy: The Republicans — the party of fiscal conservatism — have added an additional $3.2 trillion dollars to the federal debt. They have created an economy build on debt at the consumer level and hoped to leave office before the secret got out. Well, the secret got out and people have figured out it was a giant illusion.
Here’s the point: every policy that the Republicans have initiated has fallen apart. It doesn’t work plain and simple. The Republicans wonder why there’s an enthusiasm gap? Even Republican voters realize they’re failed. Only the hard-core 30% Republican supporters are hanging on right now. Fine — let them. It’s their choice.
Every “true conservative” Republican candidate has failed. The reason? Conservative polities don’t work. You guys are trying to sell a typewriter in a word processor world.
When Republican are in charge
– they are nothing more than power hungry spendthrifts who will add hundreds of billions to the national debt
– they will lie to go to war (despite most of you never serving in the military yourself)
– they will use the Federal government to interject themselves into personal family matters if their religious right leaders want them to.
Raise your hand if that’s what you want in government.
Writer…is Anthony’s thought so far fetched? After all, when a lot of people didn’t like the Rodney King verdict, the LA riots lasted for days and cost tens of millions of dollars in damages.
The street tension for a repeat had OJ been convicted was palpable.
Is it totally inconceivable to happen?
Linda…the problem with decisions made in the proverbial smoke filled rooms is that we never know the deals, the promised favors and the secrets that went into it. For example…with secrecy such as that, what is to stop a superdelegate from saying that he/she will support “x” if they promise to nominate a family member to the Supreme Court? Little extreme…but I say it just to make a point.
The idea of “superdelegates” wielding more electoral power than the voters is scary.
Yumm…, regurgitated propaganda from the Huffington Post. Scroll over…
Taz, the room doesn’t need to be smoke filled for deals to happen. They do and they will. I happen to trust both these candidates MUCH MORE than any others. I won’t be disappointed with whichever one is the final choice and the President of the United States of America. I’m one happy camper!
Yeah, “outlander” –
Ignorance is bliss for you, huh?
Ya got nothing to refute it so you hold your ears and yell “nee-nee-nee-nee!”
How droll Monkey Hock,
The Schiavo case involved actually very few people, was a local affair and had nothing to do with the other 300million people in the U.S. other than making the news.
Taz/Regular–
What the hell do you care what Democratic delegates do?
When we want the opinions of reich-wingers about what we should do in our party, we’ll ask for them.
The only thing we’re asking is for people like you to shut up about what we do in our party.
How’s the produce today Capn? Did you oil up those cukes? :)
“Regular” asserts –
“The Schiavo case involved actually very few people, was a local affair and had nothing to do with the other 300million people in the U.S. other than making the news.”
Yeah, except for the Republic Party-dominated Congress of the United States of America.
Randy posits an interesting hypothetical.
The thing is, it’s not going to happen IMHO.
1. Obama is meeting with Edwards today. Gee . . . what could they possibly be meeting about?
Let’s all think real hard.
If Edwards agrees to come on-board as Obama’s running mate, Hillary can say “bye bye.”
2. Even without Edwards, Obama has decisively won the last four states — Nebraska, Washington, Louisiana, and Maine. The only thing they have in common is that they were the last four states. They represent people in every part of the country (except maybe New Yorkers).
It’s quite likely that Obama will take Texas, Ohio, Virgina, Pennsylvania . . . and, thank you very much, that’s all she wrote.
I thought it was wrong for those to get involved. But Monkey Hock once again blames an entire group of people with ambigious finger pointing.
Tuck that paranoia in there Monkey Hock, your ass is showing.
Keep trying, “Regular” –
Your reduction to name-calling (i.e., “Monkey Hock”) reveals your despiration.
Your Monday morning reality check:
Here is a New Year’s Resolution that all the Libs will enjoy.
I will stop blogging forever.
Primarily because I will be busy from obligations.
That, and the Libs here on the blog will not be able to use me as a target.
Posted by: Kansas (now, Regular) | December 24, 2007 at 07:20 PM
Kansas (Regular) –
When you break your promise and don’t “stop blogging forever,” will you then admit that you are a liar?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 28, 2007 at 12:19 AM
I won’t be here to make such a statement Capn.
So, get over yourself, you’ll have to spew out your angst against something or someone else.
Posted by: Kansas (Regular) | December 28, 2007 at 12:27 AM
I thought the name Monkey Hock was appropriate. You ruminate some conspiracy-driven agenda, roll it around in your mouth and it comes out your ass end.
Gotten any rump roast lately there Capn? Of course you being the vienna sausage of men folk, must be difficult to do.
“Regular”
Posted February 11, 2008 at 9:06 am
“I thought the name Monkey Hock was appropriate. You ruminate some conspiracy-driven agenda, roll it around in your mouth and it comes out your ass end.”
You really want a flame war, don’t you, “Regular.”
Name-calling, avoiding the issues at hand… Pretty standard operating procedure for you.
I’m not gonna play in your s#it, “Regular.”
Not that it wouldn’t be pretty easy to lower myself to your level. I could make one of your little junior high wordplays and call you, say, “Constipated;” the opposite of “Regular.” Then go on all day how “Constipated” means you’re full of s#it. Ha-ha-ha-ha. That’d be so clever.
Sorry. I don’t play that game.
I post on issues and pretty much show up you Cons for your hypocrisy, ignorance, prejudice, and idiocy.
And all you can come up with is “Monkey Hock.”
“The Schiavo case involved actually very few people, was a local affair and had nothing to do with the other 300million people in the U.S. other than making the news.” Regular Posted February 11, 2008 at 8:54 am
————————————
By March 2005, the legal history around the Schiavo case included fourteen appeals and numerous motions, petitions, and hearings in the Florida courts; five suits in Federal District Court; Florida legislation struck down by the Supreme Court of Florida; a subpoena by a congressional committee to qualify Schiavo for witness protection; federal legislation (Palm Sunday Compromise); and four denials of certiorari from the Supreme Court of the United States.
Governor Bush and Congressional Republicans anticipated Greer’s adverse ruling well before it was delivered and worked on a daily basis to find an alternative means of overturning the legal process by utilizing the authority of the United States Congress. On March 20, 2005, the Senate, by unanimous consent, passed their version of a relief bill; since the vote was taken by voice vote, there was no official tally of those voting in favor and those opposed. Soon after Senate approval, the House of Representatives passed an identical version of the bill S.686, which came to be called the “Palm Sunday Compromise” and transferred jurisdiction of the Schiavo case to the federal courts. The bill passed the House on March 21 at 12:41 a.m. EST. President Bush flew to Washington D.C. from his vacation in Texas in order to sign the bill into law at 1:11 a.m. EST. As in the state courts, all of the Schindlers’ federal petitions and appeals were denied, and the U.S. Supreme Court declined to grant certiorari, effectively ending the Schindlers’ legal options.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo
———————————–
“The Google” has MUCH more about the Republican Party sticking their collective nose where it didn’t belong! I do believe it involved MANY people who WE THE PEOPLE were paying.
There you go lindainks55, someone finally got the right Bush – Jeb Bush.
It was dealt with in the State which it occurred.
“Obama is meeting with Edwards today.”
Uh yeah.
Edwards met with Senator Clinton last Thursday.
Oh, and back to the issues raised in this thread –
For all the talk of a “smoke-filled room” and Super Deligates, look what happened in Washington state’s Republic Party caucuses last weekend.
The Huckster was winning as the votes were counted until McCain eked out an edge with 13% of the vote yet to be counted. So the Republic Party chairman STOPPED COUNTING THE VOTES!!!
And, so, it’s covered in the news that McCain “won” Washington state.
Three days later, they’re still not counting the remaining 13% of Washington state’s caucus voters.
The Republic Party (in Washington, anyway) lives up to Josef Stalin’s observation, “It doesn’t matter who votes; what matters is who counts the votes.”
“There you go lindainks55, someone finally got the right Bush – Jeb Bush.
It was dealt with in the State which it occurred.”
Regular Posted February 11, 2008 at 9:32 am
——————————-
I copied this from my above post that you must not have read:
President Bush flew to Washington D.C. from his vacation in Texas in order to sign the bill into law at 1:11 a.m. EST.
Jeb Bush had help from brother dubya! And brother dubya had help from the Republican dominated Congress in passing the bill he had to interrupt his vacation to sign.
Okay lindainks55, enjoy your conspiracy. I suppose I could go back and explore which Democratic Congressmen and Senators voted for that bill as well.
And you know they did, you’re just too much of a hypocrite to acknowledge it.
Go for it if it’s that important to you.
All I wanted to do was offer proof that you posted inaccurate information when you said: “The Schiavo case involved actually very few people, was a local affair and had nothing to do with the other 300million people in the U.S. other than making the news.”
Fine and dandy no matter which candidate the so called “superdelegates” — elected officials and party leaders pick?
In other words: Democracy does not matter.
You are more than willing to abdicate the vote of the citizens and let those “all knowing and powerful” decide who is best for you.
Wow. You libs really have come a long way baby.
“American Way” –
Florida, 2000.
Washington state, 2008.
“Just stop counting the votes.”
Yeah, we Democrats haven’t caught up with you Republic Party people yet.
Taz
Posted February 11, 2008 at 7:24 am | Permalink
“superdelegates’….why does that make me think of the old “smoke filled rooms” and the deal making and the party bosses determining who will be the nominee? What happened to the idea of having the electorate choose the nominees?
—————————————————
Taz, the votes of the ordinary People do not count. Where have you been?
We are the proletariat. The elitists at the top of the political parties know what is best for us. They will take care of us.
I’m surprised they even allow us to pretend to vote.
con·spire
Pronunciation: \k?n-?sp?(-?)r\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): con·spired; con·spir·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French conspirer, from Latin conspirare to be in harmony, conspire, from com- + spirare to breathe
Date: 14th century
transitive verb
: plot, contrive
intransitive verb
1 a: to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement b: scheme
sounds like it fits the definition of conspiracy to me. But, I guess it just depends on your definition of unlawful or wrongful.
You got it now AmWay.
The ordinary American is too stupid to know how to vote (eg Florida 2000) or who to vote for! The all knowing and all powerful elitists at the top of the political parties will take care of us.
And you know what’s really funny? Clark last night wouldn’t be honest and admit that he doesn’t truly have a political party representing him!
He’s still following the Democrat party line, and marching right over a cliff in the near future.
Man, Reg…Capn seems to be living in his little self made fantasy world again…confusing you with me. He is sadly confused in his little make believe world of extremism…
MonkeyHawk
Posted February 11, 2008 at 9:59 am | Permalink
“American Way” –
Florida, 2000.
Washington state, 2008.
“Just stop counting the votes.”
Yeah, we Democrats haven’t caught up with you Republic Party people yet.
————————————————-
Hopefully your party leaders train your people this time. It was really difficult to figure out how to vote in Florida. Ya actually had to read and punch holes in cards and stuff like that.
Next they’ll even want photo ID too, but I say, let the dead vote, and let those who are registered multiple times in multiple counties to vote as often as they can.
MonkeyHawk,
Your outrage at a stolen election stops when it comes to your party leaders steal one from you?
Zee soviet party leaders know what is best fer
ze lower social class.
MH…does what happened in Washington have ANYTHING to do with the ’superdelegate’ concept? I was questioning the validity of having some people being able to thwart the will of the electorate. And, capn, since it will have an effect on who appears on the general ballot, it very much affects me. I do not and never have voted on party basis, and unlike you, I don’t follow any one party line.
“Next they’ll even want photo ID too, but I say, let the dead vote, and let those who are registered multiple times in multiple counties to vote as often as they can.”
Max,
Makes no difference if the “party” aristocrats
are making the final decision for the people.
This is fun!
I was questioning the validity of having some people being able to thwart the will of the electorate. And, capn, since it will have an effect on who appears on the general ballot, it very much affects me. Taz
Taz, don’t worry. Be happy.
The benevolent leader will decide for you.
“The ordinary American is too stupid to know how to vote”
Thank you George Washington. This is the 21st century, not the 18th.
“American Way” –
The Super Delegates (whether I agree with the procedure or not) is an element of Democratic Party nominating rules for nearly a quarter of a century. Your conjecture that they may somehow “steal” the nomination away from the elected delegates is premature. Super Delegates are officially uncommitted and many of them will be on their own ballots come November. They’ll likely vote for the presidential nominee that best represnts the party’s interests.
Funny, though, how you don’t want to talk about the chairman of the Washingtons state Republic Party who stopped counting votes with 13% left to go and, by fiat, declared McCain the winner.
All you supposed “states’ rights” Cons were quick to turn to a stacked Supreme Court to stop counting the votes in Florida in 2000.
The “Super Delegates” were a part of the Democratic party’s attempt to avoid the McGovern disaster of 1972 happening again (thanks to kfg for reminding me of that). Super Delegates, along with proportional awarding of delegates from primaries, were installed to be sure that an outsider couldn’t lead the party to electoral disaster in a Presidential race (or that was the theory). From my understanding, this nominating season is the first time since these provisions were adopted that the Super Delegates will have to take a stand, and from various media reports, they really don’t relish the opportunity.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out as time advances. While the idea of proportional delegates would seem to support the idea of giving primary and caucus votes weight by avoiding “winner take all”, the hovering presence of the Super Delegates appears to void this ideal, all in the name, as I see it, of allowing the party a chance to win, which, after all, is the name of the game in politics.
The Republicans, for their part, have avoided much of this by continuing the “winner take all” approach in the primaries and caucuses, with some exceptions, depending upon the state involved, as I understand it. It would seem that “winner take all” effectively mutes and moots the votes of those who are in the minority, which gives rise to the obvious statement made above: it is the party elite (regardless of the party) who wish to make the decision for the party as a whole.
Max remember the democrats outrage at the “stolen” election? Remember even the supreme court was in the pocket of republicans?
Here the masses, led by a cooperative media, dare not even ask the question of their leaders.
The WEBLOG has to add a question mark to the header, and tactfully write around the issue – but not directly confronting it.
They dance lightly around it.
And these guys eat it up.
I’m reminded of the first Star Wars movie, where the Jedi is leading Luke through a roadblock check point.
The Jedi Ben Kenobi waves his arm and plants a message in the guards mines, “These two are not the ones you are looking for” “Move along”
So the guard repeats the mind control comments and lets them pass.
But the above would be a use of the force on the
good side, by the Jedi Knights.
I personally think the super delegates are Sith Lords and are from the dark side.
But who cares? The libs are too thoroughly drenched in the koolaid to care.
“Taz” rants –
“MH…does what happened in Washington have ANYTHING to do with the ’superdelegate’ concept?
Well, “Tax,” it has something to do with the validity of having some people — in this case, the Chairman of the Republic Party stopping the vote cout with 13% of the ballots to go — you know, being able to thwart the will of the electorate.
“I was questioning the validity of having some people being able to thwart the will of the electorate.
So am I, “Taz.” So am I.
Like it or not — and I don’t particularly do — the concept of Super Delegates is and for over 25 years has been part of the Democratic Party rules for picking its presidential nominee.
Just where in the Republic Party rules is it stated that a state party chairman can call off the vote count with 13% of the ballots left to go?
“They’ll likely vote for the presidential nominee that best represnts the party’s interests.”
MonkeyHawk: Read what you posted. Don’t you even realize how dangerous this is? Think about it.
(and stop redirecting. This thread is about the superdelegates.)
“They’ll likely vote for the presidential nominee that best represnts the party’s interests. ”
My my, the party’s interests? Or the country’s?
Ah my question is answered. Actually, a problem from both parties. The parties interest is put above the Country’s. Nice representation, a**holes. A pox on both your houses.
“From my understanding, this nominating season is the first time since these provisions were adopted that the Super Delegates will have to take a stand, and from various media reports, they really don’t relish the opportunity.”
Yeah, I bet not. makes their influence public. Something they have no desire of doing..
“Like it or not — and I don’t particularly do — the concept of Super Delegates is and for over 25 years has been part of the Democratic Party”
Again, it does not matter if the sheep like it or not. You have no c-h-o-i-c-e. You must not protest or promote change. You are a broken machine if you do.
But this election may be one of the narrowest or closest of delegate counts. It may not have come close before.
I’m guessing your super delegates will go with the white girl.
MonkeyHawk
Posted February 11, 2008 at 10:23 am | Permalink
“American Way” –
The Super Delegates (whether I agree with the procedure or not) is an element of Democratic Party nominating rules for nearly a quarter of a century.
————————————————–
Wow! Translation for the ordinary people:
Super Delgates have been around for a whopping 25 years! (Since the 1984 elections.) Long history of tradition that is!
Tradition 1
Democracy 0
Who do YOU think the super-delegates should go for?
Oops. Scratch that question.
IT DOESN’T MATTER!
ha!
American Way
Posted February 11, 2008 at 10:38 am | Permalink
“Like it or not — and I don’t particularly do — the concept of Super Delegates is and for over 25 years has been part of the Democratic Party”
Again, it does not matter if the sheep like it or not. You have no c-h-o-i-c-e. You must not protest or promote change. You are a broken machine if you do.
————————————————–
Change it? Are the Democrats the Party of Change now? Yeah, I guess they are. That’s all you hear from Obama/Clinton:
Change. Change. Change. Change. Change. Change.
But, they can’t change their own Primary process. It works so well afterall. It’s resulted in one Democrat President in 25 years.
It is obvious that the super-delegates should all be caste for Hillary Clinton.
Her sixty years of experience (to include elementary school, hosting diplomatic receptions,arranging presidential dinners, and having tea with leaders wives on whirlwind overseas visits by her husband), makes her eminently qualified.
Besides, she has hob-knobbed with most of the super-delegates, and their wives for YEARS. As a professional favor – the SUPREME LEADERS (aka super delegates), should favor Hillary.
Yes Hillary is most qualified. Who will influence the Super Delegates more? Obama or Clinton?
Who is owed the biggest favor?
Pretty obvious. Hill is their Girl.
(I bet she cries when she accepts the nominaton.)
“Vaughn Tolle” –
With all due respect to “ksfarmgrrl,” the Super Delegates became part of Democratic Party rules in 1984, after the attempt of Ted Kennedy to unseat incumbant Jimmy Carter in 1980. For sure, the McGovern Revolution of 1972 contributed to the party’s mindset. But 1984 was the first year when Super Delegates (office holders, party leaders, etc.) became part of the mix.
[snip]
“From my understanding, this nominating season is the first time since these provisions were adopted that the Super Delegates will have to take a stand, and from various media reports, they really don’t relish the opportunity.”
It’s the result of two very strong candidates. Almost every Democrat I talk to will accept the other leading candidate as the party’s nominee, even as they’re passionate about their chosen candidate. Super Delegates (for better or for worse) have the independence to cast their convention votes for the person they believe will best lead the party to victory in November.
And, for what it’s worth, the Smoke-Filled Room led to FDR and Harry Truman and JFK.
[snip]
“While the idea of proportional delegates would seem to support the idea of giving primary and caucus votes weight by avoiding “winner take all”…”.
Yup. And that makes the Republic Party’s winner-take-all rules highly suspect when one person, the Chairman of the party in Washington, can stop counting votes with 13% of the ballots still in the mix, to declare McCain the “winner-take-all” of Washington state’s caucuses. Sounds to me a bit more egregious than the long-standing Super Delegates rule. The Washington state Republic Party chairman simply changed rules in the middle of the game.
“The Republicans, for their part, have avoided much of this by continuing the “winner take all” approach in the primaries and caucuses, with some exceptions, depending upon the state involved, as I understand it. It would seem that “winner take all” effectively mutes and moots the votes of those who are in the minority, which gives rise to the obvious statement made above: it is the party elite (regardless of the party) who wish to make the decision for the party as a whole.”
Exactly.
I was a fool in December, 2000, to think George WMD Bush’s loss of the popular vote, and questionable narrow victory in the SCOTUS’ decision to go against all traditional “conservative” principles to award Shrub the Oval Office… that a reasonable president might try to work with those who had voted against him.
But the Republic Party is perfectly willing to change the rules when the rules (and their “principles”) get in the way of their lust for power.
MonkeyHawk,
Thank you. I had thought the Super Delegate idea had been instituted after President Carter gained the nomination in 1976, and kfg believed that it was after the McGovern debacle in 1972. So, in light of your comments, I consulted the Wiki, and a link to its article on this subject below appears.
It was after 1980 that Super Delegates became a part of the Democratic party structure; this, from said article, built upon the study done after the 1968 convention, the idea being to remove some power from the “insiders” (my term).
No matter how it happened, and when, it happened. The effect was and is to give some power back to the regulars. I think we’re all in agreement with that statement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate
Geez Monkey, do you just troll me?
VT remember the link I provided last week? Here is an excerpt:
“The 1972 Democratic National Convention produced George McGovern as the Democratic presidential nominee. Although he won the nomination by a wide margin, he lost the presidency in a landslide to Richard Nixon, winning only one state and 37.5 percent of the popular vote. Because of this, the Democratic Party instituted super delegates as a safeguard to guarantee party control over the nomination process.”
It may have been IMPLEMENTED in 1980 and 1984, but it was a RESULT of 1972.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/politics/15065561/detail.html
Thank you, MH for that mature and rational thought. I posed a question about one particular practice, and the best you can come up with akin to: “nyah nyah, they started it”.
I would say your attitude is rather childish, but that would be insulting to children.
“The effect was and is to give some power back to the regulars.”
Will the “regular” ballots be higher for one candidate, and the super supreme-delegates (Sith Lords) go with these voters?
We shall see.
Has anyone else noticed that all these threads about the Democratic nominees are dominated by conservative republicans?
Seems like Juan Williams on NPR thinks it is a strategy by the GOP to get Obama nominated because HE is the one they want to face. Wonder why?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132×4530130
Seems like JR is in good company and not so paranoid after all.
VT, wheat was at 11.20 at ten am this morning here. Seems the limit up is now sixty cents.
I have mixed feelings about the Super Delegates. On one hand, I find this disturbing:
“Democratic Party instituted super delegates as a safeguard to guarantee party control over the nomination process.”
On the other hand? It does help prevent republicans crossing over to rat bugger the democratic primary process. No one suggests that was done in 1972, but…
As noted in the link above, it seems a DISTINCT possibility this year. Are they really that afraid of Hillary? Just read the threads here about the HUGE crossovers in the primaries and caucuses nationwide.
So.. who do you democrats want to choose your nominee? The republicans and their crossovers? Or the party leaders?
THAT is why we need primaries, not caucuses, and perhaps why Obama consistantly does better in caucuses than primaries.
As CF says, RAT buggering.
kfg, thanks for the information on the wheat market. How high might it go (the market, that is) and will the daily limit be increased as time passes? I’m worried about the general economy, while recognizing this is (for now) good for the wheat growers.
Yes, I’d forgotten the link you posted last week.
Heh, well VT, when I went to get this link, I noticed it is down to 10.96 right now. Shoulda sold some instead of blogging. My bad.
Anyway, apparantly the limits HAVE changed, unbeknownst to me. But the experts are saying there is no top to the market now as the shortages of old crop wheat become more acute. There just ISNT any more old crop wheat, at least in any significant amount.
And.. I have noticed that the experts dont always know WTF they are talking about. I think this is uncharted (no pun intended) territory in the wheat market right now and no one really knows.
http://dtnag.com/dtnag/common/link.do?symbolicName=/ag/blogs/template1&blogHandle=grainmarkets
kfg, the KC BOT announced last week that pending approval by the CTC, IIRC, the limit was to be increased to 40 cents. I’d heard nothing further.
Let me see if I have this correctly.
At the end of the nomination process, if Obama has more delegates based upon the vote of the people,
the super delegates will determine if the republicans “rat buggered” the campaign.
If the Supers decide republicans mucked it up,
they assume Hillary is the candidate republicans did NOT want to be nominated,
So the supers go with Hillary so she gets the nomination.
.
.
.
.
Now THAT makes a whole lot of sense! (not)
“ksfarmgrrl” –
No. I didn’t “troll” you. “Vaugn Tolle” cited you and I clarified how Super Delegates became part of the process in nominating a Democratic presidential candidate. It wasn’t “after 1968″ or “after 1972″ that got the rules changed. It was *after 1980* (and, yes, that makes it “after 1968″ and “after 1972,” I guess), that Super Delegates became part of the process.
This is the first year where proportional representation at the Democratic Convention potentially can result in Super Delegates becoming an issue. Frankly, I think it’s a superior system to the Republic Party’s winner-take-all approach, especially when narrow victories result in landslide delegates to the Republic Party convention. And really especially when the Washington state Republic Party chairman can call off the vote counting and declare a victor with 13% of the ballots not counted.
What we’ve seen in this thread is how desperate the Republic Party people are. They’ve got nothing but attack the other party’s rules and refuse to defend their own party’s corruption of their own rules.
For whatever reason, Mike Huckabee earned 60% of Kansas Republic Party voters’ support; so they award him 100% of their delegates? Somebody do the math for me.
However it worked in Washington state, Mike Huckabee was winning the day until some votes came in and gave McCain a 2% edge… and then one guy, the Republic Party Chairman decided to stop counting votes.
I would think the rational reaction from all you Huckster advocates should be outrage.
But I’ve long ago given up on figuring out how you guys think. There’s so little evidence of it.
Hey MonkeyHawk,
Your “superior system” appears to be full of holes!
What VT and KFG have just about said above is:a
1. The super delegates will decide who the democrats candidate will be based upon
2. The republicans deciding who the democrat’s candidate will be.
As a dedicated “rat buggerer”, I voted for Obama.
However, I was surrounded by a huge majority of true blue democrats – who voted for Obama.
Will the supers disenfrenchise their votes – for mine?
American Way
Posted February 11, 2008 at 11:38 am | Permalink
Let me see if I have this correctly.
At the end of the nomination process, if Obama has more delegates based upon the vote of the people,
the super delegates will determine if the republicans “rat buggered” the campaign.
If the Supers decide republicans mucked it up,
they assume Hillary is the candidate republicans did NOT want to be nominated,
So the supers go with Hillary so she gets the nomination.
———————————————–
Yup AmWay. I think you called Hillary the nominee several months ago.
Pre-ordained. Done deal. Crowned already. The Fat Lady has sung. She’s locked it up. Obama is now just the chaufer.
And the Demorats cry rat buggering to defend their Super Delegate process.
Those Super Delegates know better, you know. There’s really no reason to even have primary elections except to make the proletariat “think” their interests are being represented by “their” party.
And if you were to rat bugger, who would you rat bugger for? Is Obama the least awful one, or is Clinton?
Maybe Al Gore will save the day!
AmWay, maybe they were just “acting” like true-blue Democrats.
If the conspiracy theory is correct, there were thousands of rat buggering actors screwing over the Demorats.
Darn-it AmWay, I voted 3 times for Clinton, since I was registered in 3 counties still.
I offset at least one of your votes.
“American Way” (who doesn’t have it correctly) says –
“Let me see if I have this correctly.”
There’s always a first time for you to “have this correctly,” “American Way,” but not this time.
“If” and “perhaps” and “what if” and “if only” and “maybe” the democratically-elected delegates to the national convention cannot come come up with a majority, the Super Delegates’ votes might come into play.
Maybe.
Perhaps.
And you, as an obvious Republic Party partisan are wrapped up in February with what might happen in Denver next summer?
Meanwhile, the Republic Party is split between “principled” conservatives who think McCain is a “liberal,” and party operatives who call off the counting of ballots the minute his favored candidate ekes out a 2% edge.
You guys can’t own your own party’s sins so must attack, attack, attack others in some mad effort to somehow skew the facts to make yourself feel superior?
The Kansas Republic Party decided last weekend that 40% of its advocates have no voice in selecting a presidential candidate.
Good luck with that agenda.
Dear Monkeyhawk,
Last time I was outraged was in Nebraska, 2004 when a judge told me that a miss on the A course cross drive was an attempt then DQed me because later he decided it wasn’t an attempt.
My dog was in control of the sheep, I just flanked him to soon and we missed the cross drive below the gate. Should have lost 3 pts. Lost the trial.
Outraged about Washington? Why? Let’s count the votes, if Huckabee then got the most (probably not) and then if they don’t give Washington to him, (again, probably not) then I might be concerned.
Outraged? By politics? Why let a bunch of nimrods in Washington State have any control over my emotions?
“Clark last night wouldn’t be honest and admit that he doesn’t truly have a political party representing him!”
Bullshit again, Max.
Answer this: Which Republican president in the last forty years has PROPOSED a balanced Federal budget?
Answer this: Which Democratic president in the last forty years has ACTUALLY balanced a Federal budget?
Easy right?
If you want a good laugh, just call the Republic the Party of Fiscal Responsibility.
It’ll bring down the house.
Winner take all in the Kansas Republican primary. Outrageous! Wait… that sounds like how the electoral college works.
But thanks for bringing up the Washington primary question, Monkeyhawk, even if you are a Democratic. Huckabee is aggressively pursuing it. I hope the media hops on it.
I don’t see how it could stand without counting the rest of the ballots.
I’m actually to lazy to attempt to “rat-bugger” the process. Changing party affiliation and all, then changing back.
I did send $10 to the Obama campaign in J R’s name to cancell out the $10 he sent to Hillary. I was on BHO’s website Friday and I thought how much fun! Copied down the address and sent a money order on Saturday.
Dear J R, YOu should start getting literature and requests for more money soon!
Outraged? By politics? Why let a bunch of nimrods in Washington State have any control over my emotions?
What Hank is all too true.
If he can’t get outraged at BushCo. jerking his son out of his job and sending him in harm’s way for nothing in Iraq, he doesn’t have enough brains to be outraged.
I hope you really didn’t do that to JR, Hank.
Because that’s a kind of harassment. I’ve had it done to me, and it’s mild, but it’s still irritating.
And since we’ve all got your name and address, you’ve really left yourself open to a massive response in kind.
Hmmmm.
“rat bugger”
I’d say that’s what’ll happen if the first black Presidential candidate nominated by the Demonrat party gets hosed out of the nomination by the party elite.
chucklesnort!!
Capn, that was no defense, and no excuse for your majority liberal socialist Democrat Congress today, not getting the budget balanced.
Which party had the majority in Congress when the balanced budget was passed? And did you look at the net-effect of the Social Security surplus offset?
Are you saying Bush is so powerful, those weak Democrats just follow him like sheep follow their shepard?
Hank
That’s just pure evil. Now send one from him to Huckabee.
Right, Heckler.
And if it’s true, Hank will get to enjoy exactly what he’s done to JR too . . .
MH…you accuse others of “attack attack attack” when that is exactly what you have been doing. To wit:
I asked about the superdelegate issue..and rather than respond, you bring up some possibile voting irregularities in Washington. That would be like me responding with something else totally unrelated like the hundreds of dead Democrats who rose from the dead to vote for the first mayor Dailey in Chicago. Where does that get us? Nowhere..except to trade barbs and insults.
The biggest difference is these possible voting irregularities are not endorsed party policy, as the superdelegate designation is. This superdelegate procedure is the official, accepted, and endorsed policy of the Democratic Party to ensure that the party bosses remain in control. Isn’t that just a little disconcerting?
“Which party had the majority in Congress when the balanced budget was passed? And did you look at the net-effect of the Social Security surplus offset?”
One – all administrations have raided the SS surplus, applying the funds to the general budget – that is not an exclusive to the Democrats.
Two – the budget process ALWAYS begins with a proposed budget from the sitting administration.
Reagan, Bush I and Bush II never even proposed a balanced budget.
Clinton did and was able to generate a surplus.
End of story.
Republican Party platform – borrow and spend until the country is bankrupt.
It’s obvious to me that none of our left leaning bloggers today are anything but lillywhite. Otherwise the tone of this discussion would be decidedly different.
Oh well.
And the Democrats truly represent you Clark.
Why do YOU keep funding the war in Iraq?
Why do YOU keep spending so much pork?
Why didn’t YOU support the 2nd Amendment last Friday when the majority of Congress, including a small minority of Democrats (but NOT Obama and Clinton) signed the Amicus Brief sent to the Surpreme Court and defending the Individual Right to Bear Arms?
Why haven’t YOU solved the Social Security Medicare Fiscal crisis yet?
Why did YOU agree to expand Ethanol production 600% and increase food costs leading to imports of wheat for the first time in American history?
Oh, BTW, I NEVER said the Republican Party represents me.
Shove that diversive attack on Republicans up your wazoo Clark. Knowing you, you would enjoy it.
Don’t worry Max, Pelosi said there’s a new “Sheriff” in town and she’s got it under control. :)
Yes Regular, and Pelosi is doing such a fine job too!
What’s the deal with this person “Amway”?
I haven’t read a darn thing from them in support of anybody, but every post is downing somebody.
My .02?
Obama is the populist choice for one reason:
NOBODY trusts the Clintons.
They can’t trust each other, why should we?
The media/candidates are heading us toward a straw-man election.
JFK (Obama)vs. Reagan (McCain)
Or at least, that’s what they would have us think.
What’s a DIVERSIVE attack?
“Taz” whines –
“I asked about the superdelegate issue..and rather than respond, you bring up some possibile voting irregularities in Washington.”
Sorry, “Taz,” but I’ve addressed the Super Delegate issue at length.
It’s part of the rules. I’ve even gone so far as to share that I’m not a particular fan of the Democrats’ rules. But rules is rules.
Except, as it happens, when it comes to counting all the votes in the Republic Party’s Washington caucuses.
And that doesn’t bother you at all.
You keep whining,
“That would be like me responding with something else totally unrelated like the hundreds of dead Democrats who rose from the dead to vote for the first mayor Dailey in Chicago. Where does that get us? Nowhere..except to trade barbs and insults.”
Nope. I present opinions based on the here and now. All the Republic Party partisans’ whining about what “might” happen with Super Delegates this summer in Denver has nothing to do with the here and now.
On the other hand, here and now, a full 13% of Republic Party caucus voters’ ballots are uncounted, just because one man decided to stop counting them. The Huckster was winning all day until McCain eked out a 2% edge with 13% of the vote yet to be counted. And then one Republic Party official stopped counting the ballots.
Get it yet?
“The biggest difference is these possible voting irregularities are not endorsed party policy, as the superdelegate designation is.”
DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!!!!!
TELL HIM WHAT HE’S WON, JOHNNY!!!
You finally got something right, “Taz.”
For better or for worse, the Democrats’ rules include a Super Delegate element to convention voting. I’m not a fan.
But you have no objection to a single Republic Party official breaking the rules and awarding the winner-take-all Republic Party delegates to his chosen candidate.
Just which procedure do you think works, “…to ensure that the party bosses remain in control?”
“Isn’t that just a little disconcerting?”
“Taz,” you’re griping about rules the Democrats have agreed to live with. At the same time you’re ignoring that Republic Party officials are operating by breaking the rules.
It’s that just a little disconcerting?
“Dear J R, YOu should start getting literature and requests for more money soon!”
You don’t know my name, address, new email address, phone number or anything else Hank.
I have you rather at a disadvantage there.
But I will forward your idea to my friends AND share your personal information!
That’s the way J R, get yourself in trouble with the law. I’ll drop a care package off at the Jail for you, so you can barter with the Felons on how not to get gang raped. :)
Nobody trusts the Clintons? Is that why she’s in a dead heat with McCain?
50% of America isn’t nobody.
“You guys can’t own your own party’s sins so must attack, attack, attack others in some mad effort to somehow skew the facts to make yourself feel superior?”
Monkeyhawk, I never said my party was without sin. Pull my posts. I’ve posted plenty against their actions when the controlled congress (including under Clinton when they created the surplus).
I don’t know which is more democratic:
Giving all the states delegates to that states winner
or
Sometimes (depending upon the state) issuing the delegates out based upon percentage.
But I am very much of the opinion, that whichever process is used:
It is wrong for “super supreme” delegates to override the TOTAL election counts.
Did the Americus Brief give me the right to own a nuke? That’s an arm, last I checked.
Get over yourself James. Or I’ll have the Democratic party FLOOD you with advertisements!
The media/candidates are heading us toward a straw-man election.
JFK (Obama)vs. Reagan (McCain)
Or at least, that’s what they would have us think.
JFK served in Congress:
House: 1947 to 1953 six years
Senate: 1953 until 1961 eight years
Total 14
Obama:
Senate 2004 to present (on the trail for most of it)
There is no comparison. Obama is NO Kennedy.
Now take in JFK’s proven military leadership and courage.
Now consider JFK’s tax cuts and favorism to big business.
Now consider JFK’s Vietnam excursion.
You are correct, the media wants another Camelot.
Pmom, if you want to educate yourself, you will find answers to your 2nd Amendment questions at:
http://www.nra.org/
They have a link to the Amicus Brief there.
I also posted links on Friday’s topics.
Have a nice nuclear free day.
Ah, JR makes another threat again. Perhaps I can call child services and tell them the delinquent father.
Yup, JFK was a decorated Vet for sure. Tried and tested in combat and served with courage.
Did Obama do the same? Nope.
Did Clinton (either one of em) do the same? Nope.
Did McCain. Heck yeah!
Max what did Bush do?
National Guard!
“Knowing you, you would enjoy it.”
Ah, Max, are going to be graduating from elementary school this year? Only pre-teens and grade schoolers still make really lame gay jokes about adult men.
And Max, I thank God every day that I DON”T know you.
Moron.
Cindy makes the same mistake as her other Lib friends.
Attacking Bush is getting you no where. He ain’t running again.
AND,
People are sick and tired of hearing the Democrats do NOTHING except attack Bush. There must be some reason to vote FOR Obama or Clinton?
SO amway….
anybody you do like?
I’m just sayin’
Max, the MAIN reason to vote for B.O. is to make a dent in the status quo.
The BEST reason to vote for him is the fact that (so far) he is not just carrying water for the freakin lobbies!
“Why didn’t YOU support the 2nd Amendment last Friday when the majority of Congress, including a small minority of Democrats (but NOT Obama and Clinton) signed the Amicus Brief sent to the Surpreme Court and defending the Individual Right to Bear Arms?”
Why didn’t I? I am not a member of Congress or an elected official.
As I have said MANY times before, Max, I REALLY, REALLY don’t give a good god damn about you and your guns.
Buy a freakin’ ICBM for all I care.
As for Barack and Hillary – they were campaigning – end of story.
Get this through your thick head, Max, guns may be the most important thing in YOUR world, but the largest majority of Americans could really care less if you are allowed to run around town with a hundred round clip in your Uzi.
Get over yourself.
Yeah Cindy. Ferget Shrub.
The damage is done.
Let’s move on to cleaning up after the idiot.
What’s the deal with this person “Amway”?
I haven’t read a darn thing from them in support of anybody, but every post is downing somebody.
Tracy, I used to post positives. Like, “God Bless our American President Bush.”
But needless to say, for some strange reason, that didn’t go over very well. :-)
Helloooooooo WSC
Oh well no wonder you don’t have anything good to crow about!
You’re a Bush supporter….
I’m so sorry, I didn’t know.
I’ll pray for you.
By the way, Max, who is it that is arguing to support the Washington DC ban on handguns?
Think carefully.
Answer: The Bush Administration.
So much for supporting the Second Amendment.
Max, the MAIN reason to vote for B.O. is to make a dent in the status quo.
The BEST reason to vote for him is the fact that (so far) he is not just carrying water for the freakin lobbies!
I’m just sayin’
Hey, back, my friend Tracy! I hope all is well with you and yours!
People are starving and homeless ALL OVER our Nation’s Capitol. We hafta get rid of the guns there before they start hunting each other for food.
I actually did send $3 to Hillary and Obama in my name and in my wife’s name.
Both campaigns have now spent twice that trying to get more money from us!
WSC, Ol’ bud.
I can’t complain.
I should, I won’t.
check out the NEW instaspot.
Click the name.
Not much going on there right now.
This is the first time in ages I’ve had time to come here!
I’ll be back.
Clark, YOU said the Democrat party represented YOUR interests. When the Democrat Majority fails to do something to support your interest, then they are NOT representing YOU.
Or maybe they are. Light bulb moment. The true Clark has been revealed by the Actions and Inactions of Congress.
Don’t pay attention to what Clark and his Democrats say. Pay attention to their actions, or inactions.
Hank, your good friend Dr. Eva treated my mutt bitch last week. I mentioned our online acquaintance. Of course she said you’re a good guy, and hadda tell me about you dog adventures.
The pup is okay. Or better than me, anyway.
Again Clark, I’m not a Bush supporter.
Keep attacking Bush though. Your Party really has no other plan.
TRACY
Posted February 11, 2008 at 1:15 pm | Permalink
SO amway….
anybody you do like?
In retrospect, I am becoming defensive and negative. I guess I’ve been hanging out here too often.
I like Ron Paul. Had I not crossed over for Obama, I would have voted for him, along with 11% of republicans in Kansas.
He is considered radical. Interestingly, his views are closest to the original conservative base before they all turned radically on the party platform. Yes, he is a little liberatian for me.
But I think we need some extreme action to get the republican party back on track.
In fact, I may actually vote for Obama in November if McCain gets the ticket.
I believe the republican vote was not so much as in support of Huckleberry – but rather opposition to McCain.
I have posted many times about my voting against Jim Ryun – because he too fell from the conservative graces with his support for illegal immigrants AND failure to pass the appropriations on time. Not to mention the record pork (earmarks) republicans stacked up during their period in power. I’m also tired of the religious righteous folks who have taken over and destroyed the party.
And I’m going to vote Boyda out for the same reasons when I get the chance.
BOTH parties are ignoring the issue of uncontrollable spending and deficit spending.
The problem here is trying to voice ANY opinion, without it being seen as an ATTACK by others.
I’m critical of both parties, and willing to admit
errors on both sides.
I’m mostly all alone.
Max, you seem bitter, whasup?
TRACY
Posted February 11, 2008 at 1:24 pm | Permalink
People are starving and homeless ALL OVER our Nation’s Capitol. We hafta get rid of the guns there before they start hunting each other for food.
—————————————————
Tracy, guns have been banned in DC for 30 some years now. How’s that working out?
And Tracy, as for Obama, no thanks. He has a short history, doesn’t take long to read his record.
Liberal Left Socialist. No thanks.
Change for change sake is not usually a good thing. How often does that dart board approach work for ya?
#
J R
Posted February 11, 2008 at 12:59 pm | Permalink
“You don’t know my name, address, new email address, phone number or anything else Hank.”
Ah, J R,
Would you care to bet on any of that? I know your name, your mama’s name, your address and your new email address!
Out of respect for BLOG protocol I’d never make it public, but let’s bet. I’ll email the info to you tonight!
Hank
“Or maybe they are. Light bulb moment. The true Clark has been revealed by the Actions and Inactions of Congress.”
Huh?
If you are referring to Iraq War funding, etc., you have to realize that Democrats generally live in the reality based world – such as – they DON’T HAVE THE FREAKIN’ VOTES TO OVERTURN A VETO!!!!!
Christ, get that through your thick skull.
Reality, a place all Republicans should visit.
Bitter? Maybe.
No Conservative candidate to vote FOR this time.
So, I’m relegated to casting the ANTI-vote. Picking the lessor of two evils and voting against the more evil one.
That’s pretty common in most elections you know. Nothing new there. What qualified person in their right mind WOULD run for office?
And Tracy, does either political party represent YOUR interest?
If so, how?
Amway, understood. That’s why I started my own little bloggie where we can discuss without being cussed. Apparently that concept is unpopular. People seem to want to slug it out here.
Exercise in futility, ah tell ya!
Anyone is welcome at my little bloggie. I know a lot of folks from here will not go there for that very reason! They want me to take some side and hate the other….SOOOORRY, not happening.
If you knew me from back when, you know the story.
If you didn’t, ask some old timers here.
I have a history here, not proud of some of it.
Kinda tend to lose my temper over here, huh Hank?
I’ll email the info to Ben or Steven at the same time just to verify that it’s true.
Gentleman’s bet, I lose I’ll send $50 to Hillary (or candidate of your choice) You lose, send $20 to Huckabee.
Max, problee 60/40 at any time.
Right now 60 is the dems.
I guess you could call me a populist.
The fact is that NO political party is going to be a perfect fit for our country.
The matrix is not perfect……..
Careful Hank, JR will go into victim mode and start squealing. JR only likes to out other people, not get outed. :)
…you hear a squealing sound…
next stop…the Capn…
Okay, I got stuff to do.
Stop by my bloggie and leave a message.
Every thread is an open thread.
Later, Trace
darwins diciple…
Hey Tracy,
You have a nice BLOG. I lurk a lot, but try not to contaminate it with a lot of right wing crap.
I really have no animosity toward anyone on this BLOG. I will admit that I’m weak, I do try and poke the lefties a little.
Temper? Passion for your beliefs might be a little better description.
Hank
“next stop…the Capn…”
And the pot speaks up once again.
Hey, McCoward, why don’t you out ME?
Huh?
Afterall, it should be real EASY, since I use my real name, unlike say, Republikhan or (the original) Kansas, etc.
Hey, publish my address and phone number if you think you can do it.
“So, I’m relegated to casting the ANTI-vote. Picking the lessor of two evils and voting against the more evil one.”
Max, I think Kansas represented the same thing (IMHO).
Democrats did not go with the media front lady Hillary.
Republicans did not go with the media front guy
McCain.
No one is happy.
If you got anything Price, you got it from someone I thought was a friend. I’ll have to do some reevaluating on who I trust.
And if you ever mess with my mother, I’ll make you sorry you were ever born.
Tracy:
I like Obama, but I wish I could get to the right people and get answers to my communications policy questions.
Since I know where McCain stands (against me) and Hillary stands (with me), I really need to know if the nominee of my own party will turn against me (much like Jimmy Carter did with federal housing money in Kansas in 1979, when I was in the real estate business).
But all I get is a bunch of kids screaming at me to “believe”… and nobody knowing who to call to get the answers.
Reminds me too much of McGovern in ‘72. I ought to know–I was one of those kids back then :)
“I did send $10 to the Obama campaign in J R’s name to cancell out the $10 he sent to Hillary”
How’d you ever squeak it outta your tight little a…ah, never mind.
BTW Hank, I sent $10 in your name to Dr. Gene Scott. After all, he’s the only honest televangelist i’ve ever seen.
“Send me your money, you poor, ignorant believers, my purebread racehorses need a new stable”.
mrcontroversy, so I’m not alone in seeing the similarities?
“mrcontroversy” –
I’ve heard you gripe that you can’t “…get answers to my communications policy questions.”
And I’ve offered to address them. But I’ve never seen the questions.
I most certainly don’t qualify as a “kid,” and I have no idea why you’d associate me with “kids screaming at me to “believe”… and nobody knowing who to call to get the answers.”
I can’t promise to give you the answers, but I’d like to know the questions.
I actually did send $3 to Hillary and Obama in my name and in my wife’s name. Both campaigns have now spent twice that trying to get more money from us!
Hey Hank, do you think I could prompt the same campaign spending if I only send $1? Or is $3 the magic amount to get on their list?
Or maybe $1 from me, and $1.50 from the wife?
(I’m a tightwad)
Also, if I sent coins, would that hurt my chances?
Is that a threat of physical violence J R?
Does that mean we don’t have a gentleman’s bet?
Just wondering.
“…the first mayor Dailey in Chicago…”
I believe that’s Daley. D A L E Y
Howdy Mr.C
IMHO, beleiveing in something uncertain is far better that certainly knowing what the others have in store for us.
After the last 8 years, I beleive we could do better in a game of chance!
Hank, don’t tawk bad about anybody’s momma!
JR, take it easy bud, HP is just here to make ya mad. I don’t think anybody needza beat up anybuddy.
RD….jus like ol times….
the weblog slugfest.
YEE HAW!
I don’t know American Way, campaigns are a little impersonal unless you really give a lot! I think the key is to do it with a personal check. Hell, $.25 would probably be enough!
In 2000, Gore’s campaign and the DNC both sent my wife one of those we’re-interested-in-your-opinion-please-fill-out-this-survey-and-send-money requests.
I wrote them back and told them we charged to fill out surveys because we were professional experts. We then sent them an invoice and told them that we democrats had to pay in advance. We got a call from the DNC wanting to know why we sent them a bill and that was the end of it.
Gore’s campaign sent us a form letter thanking us for the contribution (we never sent any) and asking us for more. We sent another invoice explaining that they owed us and they really needed our help but before we would help they had to pay what they owed us first. A few more letters and finally a phone call from some nitwit and we got it all resolved. A big mistake. They really didn’t want our help after all.
I thought it might make a good book, “My Career as a Political Consultant” Just compile copies of communications with various campaigns and make a book out of it.
Dear Tracy,
I would never talk bad or be mean to anybody’s mama. Especially J R’s.
He’s merely squealling when he isn’t being poked.
“Did McCain. Heck yeah!”
The comparisons were JFK/Obama and Reagan/McCain. So tell us all about Reagan’s service in the Armed Forces. Oh, wait, he played a soldier in some movies! That oughta count for something, right?
Hank, you’re enjoying the squealing way too much.
Okie dokie,…..continue poking or whatever.
So tell us all about Reagan’s service in the Armed Forces.
YOU try co-starring with a chimpanzee.
I will gladly post again:
1) Does Obama support reopening the Class A broadcast window (this would be a great issue for him against Clinton, since it was the FCC’s mismanagement of the first window during the Clinton administration that created the mess in the first place)?
2) Does Obama support must-carry for Class A and qualifying low-power stations (10 hours of local programming per week)?
3) Does Obama support increased localism requirements for television and radio stations to renew their licenses?
4) Will Obama promise to appoint people to the FCC who will restore balance between broadcast and cable, instead of the Media Bureau’s current status as the cable industry’s playground?
Straightforward, simple questions.
McCain opposes all but (3). Clinton supports 1-3, and with all the money McCain gets from the cable industry, I don’t think (4) will be a problem with her.
Get em’ RD….yee haw!
I have never seen why all the reverance for Ronnie.
Shewt, he didn’t remember most of his time in office.
The chimpanzee was the more intelligent one in the partnership.
MrC, that’s kinda narrow interests ain’t it?
You are voting strictly on what it means for your station?
Fair enough.
At least you have a firm agenda, and knowledgeable too!
I really liked Bonzo. Actually, I should be ashamed to admit I remember Bonzo.
Hey Mr C,
I’ve got Dish Network out in the county. I can’t get your station (55?) via my antenna and I don’t think I can get it through the satelite. How can I get it out by Lake Afton?
J R
Posted February 11, 2008 at 1:51 pm | Permalink
If you got anything Price, you got it from someone I thought was a friend. I’ll have to do some reevaluating on who I trust.
And if you ever mess with my mother, I’ll make you sorry you were ever born.
–He he he. It seems that Psycho wasn’t just an Alfred Hitchcock love story after all!
Hank, you write that book. I’ll buy a copy.
I’ll read it before I read the negative books
about Clinton.
Tracy, the question is this:
Do you want access to information limited to a group of people who gave over $300,000 to George Bush?
That’s what you’re going to get if the cable industry wins.
Broadcast telelevision as we know it–not just my station–will go out the window, because not only will there be no must-carry for those who don’t already have it, the cable industry will seek to eliminate all must-carry.
Imagine the only local news being the Eagle and Kansas Now 22 (owned 50 percent by Cox, whose chief lobbyist is Kansas is the brother of former Bush FEMA head Joe Allbaugh). Could you REALLY trust that?
Research from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Wichita State, Ball State and Hofstra shows that if greater local access is given, 117,000 new jobs will be created nationwide (each job in broadcasting creates 5.17 jobs).
If you let the cable camels keep their nose in the tent, forget innovation and progress. The wireline cable companies (Cox, Time Warner, et.al.) have a current capacity of 488 channels.
With Internet Protocol TV (Verizon, AT&T), you START with a spectrum of 2,500 channels–but theoretically, since it is based on the principle of the Internet, the number of channels available should be as finite as the number of websites are currently.
Greater competition, more choice for consumers, more jobs–everyone wins…except Cox, who blew all their money taking themselves private.
Hank:
It’s Channel 5, not 55 (the FCC made us switch four years ago).
If you can’t get us by antenna, go to http://www.kctu.com
RD
Posted February 11, 2008 at 2:30 pm | Permalink
“Did McCain. Heck yeah!”
The comparisons were JFK/Obama and Reagan/McCain. So tell us all about Reagan’s service in the Armed Forces. Oh, wait, he played a soldier in some movies! That oughta count for something, right?
————————————————
Oh sorry RD. Didn’t follow your lil rules. Didn’t know you only wanted to compare Obama to dead people.
Sorry, my bad.
McCains military record wasn’t much anyway, not compared to the Great Obama or the Great Clinton.
I don’t think Reagan is running this year though.
MAX, Yeah so ronnie is dead, so what?
And who are you to be pronouncing judgement on some pretty remarkable people? Why shood we care what ya think? One good reason?
Credentials puh-leeze!
Although I caucused for Obama, I kind of hope that Clinton will be nominated but part of the deal for her nomination is that she has to have Obama as her V.P. That would just be a beautiful Democratic ticket!!
Hey Mr C,
Can I get channel 5 on Dish Network? I can get all the local stations.
I guess you better hope that neither myself or my family is harassed in any way Hank.
Like you started in on this thread bragging you had done?
Then you don’t have to worry about what I meant.
Hank,
Please don’t get me started on them. Their Director of Programming is like the tease you could never hook up with in high school… she promises the sun, the moon and the stars, then when the time comes, she never delivers.
They’ve been promising us carriage for three years, and then on the date they say it’s gonna happen, it never does.
Oh well, once AT&T buys them…
whats tracey s blog adddress?
Oh my goodness, did you see how Global Warming is having a detrimental effect on education:
http://www.funnieststuff.net/viewmovie.php?id=711
Where is Tracy’s blog?
Actually, Pat Herron (Regular), I totally agree with JR and thought that he was remarkably restrained.
If he gets harassed, I’ll be backing him 100 percent.
And I’m not ruling out giving as he as gotten . . .
“as” = has
Right J R,
I’m really worried.
Does that mean you’re not going to wager?
And if youdo get ‘harassed in any way’ how do you know it’s me?
When you give money to any candidate, especially a democrat, your name and info goes to the state party and to the DNC mailing lists.
Maybe, with only ten dollars to Hillary like you claimed (that wasn’t a lie was it, Hillary needs all she can get!) you might be safe if you didn’t give any personal info.
If you mailed it in with a return address they’ve got ya!
Again, I’m really worried.
AmWay writes: “I have posted many times about my voting against Jim Ryun . . . ”
Fer heaven’s sake, he either
1. doesn’t live in the fourth district where we live(Tiahrt), in which case he totally doesn’t matter or
2. he is lying again (my theory) and he really is Regular, in which case he matters even less.
Good afternoon Capt!
“remarkably restrained” Yah right! That’s a term that fits J R!
I think several of the libs that are as asinine as J R need to be restrained!
Sign me up, send me that campaign literature! The ones I support already have my info, the ones I don’t? Hell, I pass the trash can on my way from the mailbox to my house. It ain’t harassment a bit!
Dad,
I don’t think you realize that JR is going to be crying like a little baby about this forever.
Not only that, but about a month from now it will be twisted so far out of proportion he will be telling people that you threatened to do something to his mother.
What a nitwit.
Call me boy, I might need Marine backup on this one!
Nothing will happen as long as nothing happens, Nathan.
If it does . . . I pity the fool.
“Hell, I pass the trash can on my way from the mailbox to my house. It ain’t harassment a bit!”
I wouldn’t test that theory if I were you, Hank.
Hell, he’s even got CapnAmerica crying! It’s a twofer!
Does that mean you’re not going to wager?
Really, he ought to. The safe way for you would be to LOSE that wager. Winning it would just show what a devious, underhanded person you really were. Why would you even want or try to obtain that information unless you had malicious intent.
Just one more reason I thank God I’m not a christian.
Ghotiphaze,
We know JR. We have met JR. We have met several posters here. There is not any malicious intent in simply knowing things about people.
I am not quite sure what that has to do with being a Christian though.
I’ve got a lot of money that says I can find your name and number, Capn. You might want to stay out of Junior’s and my business.
Preaching christianity while deliberately demeaning and belittling, and constantly berating a person, is somewhat antithetic to your dogma, what?
Thanks that Capn. and others.
Probably Hank got my email from when I was trying to get together some help for another blogger.
I commend him and Nathan for their efforts in that area.
Too bad he has decided to use it to harass me.
And I can go toe to toe with you in any “business” you want to bring Hank.
Too bad also that other people who would have helped were put off by their involvement in the project. Now we see why.
And I’ll leave it there.
Ghotiphaze,
It is, where we were doing that, or what exactly that has to do with YOUR being a Christian, still escapes me.
Oh and don’t invite my friends OUT of our business when your son invites himself in.
JR,
I’m willing to bet money you won’t leave it there.
You can’t resist playing the victim and this is something else for you to use to prop yourself up with.
Yeah, JR, there’d be a few folk on this forum I’d like to meet sometime, but no way would I put any info that would narrow me down under 10,000 people. Too many real crazies on this sight.
Hey ghotiphaze,
Malicious intent? My heavens! you’re as paraniod as J R and the Capn!
Three meetups, he’s been to my house. He introduced his mother to me. His boy likes me!
He’s emailed me with his real name. I’m old and senile, but all this information has come to me, I didn’t have to look for it!
I tell you what, I will go 10 rounds with both you and CapnAmerica.
Deal?
It could be a tag team match. When you have had enough, Capn can jump in.
We could sell tickets and split the profit to a charity of each of our choosing.
what exactly that has to do with YOUR being a Christian, still escapes me
Because I’d hate to be the low-lifes like you and your daddy. Ya notice the only folk I rag on are those who constantly dig and needle others.
We’ll do another meet up sometime ghotiphaze. But we’ll do it back channel.
I understand Nathan and his threats cancelled the last called meet up.
And he and Hank can carry this on as long as they like. My kid needs the computer for home work.
I understand Nathan and his threats cancelled the last called meet up
How christian of him.
JR,
Still posting your lies I see. The Editors removed them lastime.
WS Clarks crying like a little baby hurt the last meetup, didn’t cancell it.
Careful Nathan, Capn the midget had wrestling in college – he said so and runs every morning. :D
I think he forgot to lift weights though, maybe he could sack some groceries to bulk up. :)
threats? I only made the first meetup and the closest thing to a threat I saw was Hank ‘coming at me’ carrying a spatula. I think he was serving up burgers.
;)
Hey Ben,
I tried to get another one going last fall, but every weekend the boy was in town, I wasn’t.
Everyone that meets me and the boy loves us! Well, except for J R, he hates all the republicans!
“Everyone that meets me and the boy loves us! Well, except for J R, he hates all the republicans!”
I can assure you, Mr. Price, I would rather puke up my lunch for the next month rather than shake hands with you or Nathan.
If fact, I am sure that if I were to shake hands with either of you, I WOULD puke up my lunch.
“WS Clarks crying like a little baby hurt the last meetup, didn’t cancell it.”
Actually, Nathan, it wasn’t a blog meet, it was a Wichita Voice meet and I only stated that I would not attend with my granddaughter due to your threats.
End of story.
What a good Christian you are, Nathan, wanting to scare a little girl with your BIG, BAD PISTOL.
You know, Nathan, if you keep stroking your gun, it just may go off.
WSClark is embarrassed about his massive weight, the reason he doesn’t go to blog meet ups. Sad, no one would mention his huge girth if he appeared to be a decent human being.
“WSClark is embarrassed about his massive weight, the reason he doesn’t go to blog meet ups.”
Bullshit much, McCoward?
I am 5′10″, 195# in pretty good shape, quite muscular for nearly 56 years old.
My jeans are only a size bigger than they were 20 years ago.
I understand, however, that you actually weigh 350 pounds and that is the real reason that you have to use crutches.
So, what do you say Fat One – care to race a few clicks for charity?
Yeah Clarkie, you weighted that much in 1969. :D
When’s the last time you mashed the weight scale at the grainery?
Me? I weigh in once a month, when I visit the docs. Vary between 250 to 258. Hard to control being on insulin. Of course six inches taller than you as well. :)
Foot race? Not since I have almost no feeling in my feet and a ripped up back, don’t think I will be doing any foot racing. :)
Come on Clark, that’s a little extreme! Really?
Of course, you’re assuming that I would shake hands with a crazy old coot like you!
How long since your last aids test?
Hank – yea, scheduling can get tricky.
We all got along fine – left to right and in between. Get away from the politics for a while and …
“Yeah Clarkie, you weighted that much in 1969.”
In ‘69 I weighed 150 pounds.
“don’t think I will be doing any foot racing”
Chickenshit.
“Of course, you’re assuming that I would shake hands with a crazy old coot like you!”
I am younger than you, Mr. Price, at least mentally and emotionally, but I stand by my statement – I would puke if I had to shake hands with you or Nathan.
Some people just are not worth TRYING to reason with – that includes you and your BOY.
150 pounds…hmmm, I weighed that in the eighth grade. :D – Strong side tackle in the antique single wing offense = what a loser plan for football. :D
“How long since your last aids test?”
About a year, Mr. Price, thanks for asking.
It’s funny – the party of personal responsibility TRIES to make fun of responsible adults.
What a bunch of HIPPO-crites.
The fact that I get tested every few years is due to the fact that I am a sexually active heterosexual man that has been involved with a large number of females over the years.
If your comment was meant to be another slam regarding homosexuality, well, you just have proven why I would puke if I had to shake hands with you.
Dumbass.
“150 pounds…hmmm, I weighed that in the eighth grade”
And now you are a 350 pound fat ass loser that keeps trying to claim a history of wonderful accomplishments and intellectual capabilities.
Let’s see 160 divided by seven………….
The fact that I get tested every few
I donate blood; they test it for me. I miss the days they gave cholesterol count. Even after 20+ years of monogomous relationship (hetero, as if it’s any o’ yo’ buzyness), I still worry about my wild and wooly days.
Its a good idea Ghot… never can be too careful…
Yep, personal responsibility!
Here we have a grandfather that is so sexually promiscuous that he has to worry about aids. And he’s afraid of my boy around his grand daughter!
I stand by my assesment, you’re an old coot. A pathetic old coot.
Hank, thats about as close as you can come to accusing Clark of being a child molester —
Maybe you should re-phrase your insult du jour..
Your “boy” had made reference to having a weapon around Clark’s grand daughter…
I would not have had my grand kids near your “boy’s” weapon either!!
Hank, I am fully aware that YOU think your “poking fun” at people is all good ol’ boy harmless fun…. Actually, it is a good sign of being a bully…. and a rather shameless one at that!!
“Here we have a grandfather that is so sexually promiscuous that he has to worry about aids. And he’s afraid of my boy around his grand daughter!”
Ah, I know that this is difficult for you to understand, Mr. Price, but NORMAL adults in relationships have SEX.
Whoa! Take a deep breath now, Mr. Price.
Normal adults actually ENJOY sex. Really!
To paraphrase the commercial, it’s not just for procreation anymore.
Really.
And I don’t “worry” about AIDS, I just take reasonable precautions like a RESPONSIBLE adult.
If over a twenty year period, an adult male has sex with twenty women, it is not all that unusual.
Really.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…………….. Don’t tell Mr. Price, but normal adult men and women really do have sex.
But normal adult men don’t brag about bringing a lethal weapon to a social event.
Loser.
So, another tread goes to pot, personal attacks and juvinile posturing. Even when we were on topic, the majority of posters were cons complaining about the rules of the Democratic party. Democratic party rules are should not be of concern to the cons.
Pot? Did someone mention pot? Do ya got some? Can I buy a dime?
Sorry,WS. False alarm, I’m not holding.
Damn.
Chas.
Posted February 11, 2008 at 5:33 pm | Permalink
Hank, thats about as close as you can come to accusing Clark of being a child molester —
No. really Chas., I can get a lot closer than that. You’re looking for an insult where none exist. Now, that’s very telling on where your mind is at.
Believe me, if I thought for a minute that anyone’s child was being abused I wouldn’t make some off hand implication that was so subtle that it took a sick mind like yours to find it. I would stop the abuse.
I repeat, I would stop the abuse.
Wow, what a spin!!! Hank, you keep that up you are gonna get very dizzy!!
More bad news for Obama supporters. Despite his rapid gains – I just heard on the nightly news that most of the super delegates are pledged to Clinton.
Many apparently are old Clinton croonies. MSNBC announced that Bill Clinton spent most of the day on the telephone with supers. 45 minutes with one delegate alone!
They said the plan is to get the super delegates to announce now, to stop Obama’s momentum.
To all those who have worked hard for Obama and took the time to stand in long lines to vote for him. Sorry about that. Your vote doesn’t count.
(or my own)
Read it here first. Now go confirm.
go hillary! (chortles)
Hi Regular. Can you believe anyone thinking you are me? I am the sole long time president of the ugly club. I cannot believe anyone would ever think some
prissy little air force flyboy could be me.
But the paranoia never ceases to amaze me.
But AmWay… James always brags on how UGLY he is… just like you did now!! Tooo funny
libdave
Posted February 11, 2008 at 5:41 pm | Permalink
So, another tread goes to pot, personal attacks and juvinile posturing.
Can you go back up thread and determine when those events started? Which posters are responsible?
Don’t share your smoke with them anymore.
Yes, American Way, it’s a game they (JR, CapnAmerica, Steven Davis and WSClark) have played since I began on this blog. Try as they might, they just can’t seem to get rid of me. :)
So instead of dealing with me personally, they post the email and street address of my sister’s home and make crude remarks about her.
Talk about low lifes.
It’s really gonna hurt when they get outed. Everyone’s gonna know, their church, their wives, their family, their business and just the average joe on the street.
They started this crap, now I’m going to mow ‘em.
Chas you must have finally recovered from the busy holiday season. Those Christian values already slipping away.
OK AmWay, no smoke for you.
Regular, you can dish it out just fine too.
I have born witness to their assaults and your own.
I always told you that you were the bigger man for ignoring it. I know it is hard for me too, at times.
But when you get vindictive, I gotta tell you, it’s like being in a swarm of mosquitos – no one can tell the difference between them, and all get swatted. All are annoying when sitting outside in lawnchairs trying to carry on an evening conversation.
Aww that’s not fair libDave!
I see some of you libs (no disrepect intended. I’m called a con) are very, very concerned about those poor, poor republicans in Washington State not getting their votes counted.
I’m (sniffle, sniffle) feeling your deep concern for us.
But, but, where is your concern for the topic of this thread – and your super delegates stealing your election vote?
Jamesey, I hate to tell ya, but YOU brought on all of this all by yourself… Now, you seem to be upset by all the crap you started, and now try to project onto others!!
How nice of you to have read the Psych. 101 text book!!
As I said before, it is party rules that allow super delegates. If you are not a member of the Democratic party. Why are you so concerned?
Putting personal data on the Web is not brought around by me Chas. It was brought around by cowardly thugs who hide behind their computer screens. They will be punished and won’t be a thing they can do about it. Fear me.
Westminster Dog Show night.
I’ll check in with you guys tomorrow. Play nice.
“Me? I weigh in once a month, when I visit the docs. Vary between 250 to 258. Hard to control being on insulin. Of course six inches taller than you as well.”
Bull shit you’re a lazy fat POS.
“I know that this is difficult for you to understand, Mr. Price, but NORMAL adults in relationships have SEX.”
Whoa! Take a deep breath now, Mr. Price.
Normal adults actually ENJOY sex. Really!”
Clark —
Semen Price is used to that submarine sex — it’s different than normal people
James, you are nothing but a self righteous sore ass loser… cause somebody on the Blog finally got the best of you, and you just cant STAND it, so now you want to ‘punish” people… Anonymous people… people with no names… people who show up on a computer screen… you want to punish imaginary names on a screen… Get a grip, man!!
For starters… NOBODY knows who you are!! You can CLAIM to be James McCluer… But nobody actually KNOWS that…
YOU know who you are… and that is all… nobody else knows that… shoot, you might be living in Clear Lake, Iowa for all anybody knows!!
And you know what?? It doesnt really matter!! Not one bit…
So, if I were you, I would stop and think again about just WHO caused all this crap to begin with…
And, as I said before, it was YOUR doing James, or whoever you are today!!
Just who are these super delegates? Shouldn’t the public know their names? They make up 20% of the total delegates.
Voters should be able to know who they are so they can evaluate their relationship with the candidates.
Family, old friends (good ole boys), business partners, etc…
Additionally, then we can look for any sweetheart deals they get after their voted in candidate takes power.
WHO ARE THE SUPERS???????
As I said before, it is party rules that allow super delegates. If you are not a member of the Democratic party. Why are you so concerned?
Come on libdave, we all comment on all the threads. There is no party line on each one, or rule on who can post.
Just look at today’s Bush thread. Lot’s of libs love to trash republican Bush.
Besides, I did vote for Obama. No longer registered as a democrat. But I was when I signed at the door.
I would think the issue would be what is important and the character of the comments – not the character making the comments.
Putting people’s personal data on the Web was not a game Chas.
There is going to be a lot of pain experienced, excruciating. You know what they say about payback. :)
Be back later, I have to drop off a letter to Hutchinson
AmWay – while I do not know the names of all of the Supers I think they are all public reoord. Generally speaking they are party officials and elected office holders. For example Kansas Governor Sebelius is one of them – Donna Brazille another.
I am certain that the media could come up with that list – the candidates know who they are as well.
“Come on libdave, we all comment on all the threads. There is no party line on each one, or rule on who can post.”
I did not say who could post, I was just making an observation.
“I would think the issue would be what is important and the character of the comments – not the character making the comments.”
I don’t recall making any comments about anyones charater. I have no intention of flaming anyone. Again, I was just making an observation. My whole point is just this, super delegates are part of the rules agreed to before the primary process started. If the delegate count is tight,come convention time, they may come into play.
Amway for a NON Democrat, you sure have an abnormal anmount of interest in the Democratic nomination process… If you put in as much time working for Ron Paul as you do worrying about Democratic machinations… maybe your boy would have done better!!
Besides, all you do is make highly undignified comments about Democrats and progressives and liberals!!
Hank do you realize that the elderly are one of the fastest growing AIDS community?
WS is correct to be careful. And he’s right. I’ve worked with the elderly for a long long time. They don’t stop being sexual beings ever. Not that WS is elderly, just saying.
Besides, Aids isn’t transfered via anything BUT sexual contact, and very very rarely by other ways other than a direct needle stick. So what exactly were you implying?
I am certain that the media could come up with that list – the candidates know who they are as well.
Ben,
On MSNBC tonight, Brian Williams (I think) made the statement that Bill Clinton spent today on the telephone calling all the supers.
I find that galling that a former president would use his influence, to sway the delegates for his wife. As someone else mentioned, it’s a little early for that anyway, since we do not know if the end delegate count is close yet. Is Bill offering sweet appointments for a vote?
They also commented that this was an attempt to get the supers to announce early (now) so that it will give Hillary’s campaign a sorely needed boost.
How do the supers decide which candidate to endorse? It should be based upon the state voters they represent. Or maybe they don’t represent any voters or a particular state.
Why go through the nomination process if the decision is ultimately made by the party elite?
Chas, I have just as much interest in whom will be our next president as anyone else.
It matters. Just as the Washington State republican delegates mattered to a democrat earlier today.
Having faith and trust in our election process is what binds us all together. Many from both sides of the aisle remember the last election, the delay and wondering over the Florida fiasco.
It’s a matter of record in my posts previously on these pages that I do not vote a straight party ticket. I look for the good (and bad) from both parties, as well as the individual candidates. I can make a better informed decision based upon all the knowledge and sources I can gather.
The thirty minute 6 o’clock news doesn’t cut it.
Amway — WHY would you even care?? lol
It’s America Chas, American Way can do as he pleases as long as it’s legal. Get over yourself.
Your mind is already made up, Amway — If it wasnt, you would not say this >>>>
“Why go through the nomination process if the decision is ultimately made by the party elite?”
What you say right there shows your bias as good as anything… You have alredy made up your mind that the superdelegates are the party elite… And you are complaining…
And yet, I dont HEAR OR SEE you complaining about that Republican guy in Washington State who ordered that vote counting stop… before votes had been counted!!
It is up to the party to determine the process of selecting the canidates to represent them in the general election. As long as the rules are being followed, democracy is being served. The super delegate issue does not relate at all to what happened in Florida in 2000.
And yet, I dont HEAR OR SEE you complaining about that Republican guy in Washington
Just waiting on that thread Chas. Meanwhile, on this one….
Whistlin a tune… Walk on By!! Walk on By!!
Well at the risk of dignifying sock puppets.
Super delegates are not some sort of star chamber elite voting block. Indeed the “honor” is more a burden.
Hey chas? Let James worry himself over our nominating process. He’d rather not think about theirs! Not going so well ya know.
Chas,
You need to realize, the superdelegates ARE the party elite. That’s not a negative.
Doesn’t that bother you? The top 20% get to have the power to overrule the delegate count by the majority.
As long as the rules are being followed, democracy is being served.
Those rules are not democracy. You are giving up your vote for the “party” to decide your vote.
Much like the soviet “party” rules.
Obviously, Democratic party leaders determined years ago, that this super delegate process was best for the nomination of their Candidate… As for calling them the Elite, can you show some evidence of that?? I understood that these super delegates are elected officials, and party office holders… So, they have already been ELECTED to do their particular task, should it become necessary…
Those rules are not democracy. You are giving up your vote for the “party” to decide your vote.
Much like the soviet “party” rules.
AmWay said “Those rules are not democracy. You are giving up your vote for the “party” to decide your vote.
Much like the soviet “party” rules.”
Sorry I wasted our time, I thought we could have a reasonable exchange of ideas. But you had to pull out the old “Soviet party” line. When all else fails call out commie, commie. I am done with you.
I dont believe it has anything to do with Percentages… Not if I understand what I read about it earlier…
Chas,
You can look up the meaning of elite as well as anyone, probably better.
Not all of the supers have been appointed yet. The mayor of Kansas City is being “groomed/quizzed” to see if he gets one.
I’m not sure they are all even elected, but even then, it is not a function of their elected office.
Rather, they are endowed by the higher party to become a super.
But I’ll relent for now, you all seem tired of discussing the possibility of having your vote not count.
Besides, KU is going to rock TX shortly. Rock chalk Jayhawks!
Ummmm as I was trying to say earlier, Dave, Amway isnt even a DEMOCRAT…. and thus has no interest in this matter…
It’s sort of like he is whining that Babe Ruth hit more home runs than Bart Starr!! LOL
PERHAPS we should just read this from Wikki, and let the entire thing fade off into the sunset…. >>>>
“The Republican Party also seats some party officials as delegates without regard to primary or caucus results, but the term “superdelegate” is most commonly applied only in the Democratic Party. For the Republican party, the term “unpledged delegate” is used.”
Chas. I’m still learning who is who, but I have learned not to engage AmWay anymore. Yea, but Bart Starr had way more 3 pointers than the Babe.
ALSO READ THIS >>>>
“By contrast, the superdelegates are seated based solely on their status as current or former elected officeholders and party officials.”
NOW — we can stop seeing idiotic posts that try to make the super delegates in to some kind of bull dog delegates, forcing their way to the convention….
Yep he sure did Dave!! LOL
Except that would be 6 pointers, Dave… Starr wasnt a place kicker…
The Mayor of a city would be eligible to be a super delegate… IF chosen by the Party… READ the definition, Amway!! Please READ!!
Chas. think basketball. LOL
Ummm Dave, Bart Starr played football!!
Yes, Chas. I know. It was an attempt at humor.
“Try as they might, they just can’t seem to get rid of me.”
We don’t want to get rid of you, McCoward. Damn man, you are the primary source of comic relief on this blog. Shit, you are funnier than Richard Pryor and Robin Williams rolled into a big fat doobie and smoked down to a roach.
Keep up the good work, James, you make everyone else look positively sane and normal.
Yeah, boy, keep after it.
And by the way, when are you going to out me?
Go for it, fat man.
Ok Dave — sorry bout that!!
I am just as concerned with republican unassigned delegates. However, at this point in the repubican campaign, it does not appear to be such an issue.
McCain is still the annoted leader.
It is the democratic race which is shaping up for a much tighter and interesting race.
“On MSNBC tonight, Brian Williams (I think) made the statement that Bill Clinton spent today on the telephone calling all the supers”
SO WHAT!? BOTH candidates are doing that – both directly and through surrogates. How is that a problem?
Why go through the nomination process if the decision is ultimately made by the party elite?
That only comes into play if the result of the balloting is essentially a tie. I would think that even you would have figured that out AmWay.
AmWay, you continue to avoid answering the relatively simple question of which Caucus site you made your “lleged” speech??
“AmWay, you continue to avoid answering the relatively simple question of which Caucus site you made your “alleged” speech??”
Could it be a bald faced lie, the variety that James tells? Surely not…
Ummmmm could be steven :-)
Well, early appts tomorrow — Soooo,
Good night; Good luck; and
God bless; whatever you conceive God to be!
Blessings All!
J R
Posted February 11, 2008 at 3:16 pm | Permalink
I guess you better hope that neither myself or my family is harassed in any way Hank.
Like you started in on this thread bragging you had done?
Then you don’t have to worry about what I meant.
—-Ooooooohhhhhhh! Myyyyy!
Look out, big, bad JR is in town!
Chas.
Posted February 11, 2008 at 7:12 pm | Permalink
James, you are nothing but a self righteous sore ass loser… cause somebody on the Blog finally got the best of you, and you just cant STAND it, so now you want to ‘punish” people… Anonymous people… people with no names… people who show up on a computer screen… you want to punish imaginary names on a screen… Get a grip, man!!
–What church can I go to and hear crap like this in the sermon? Must be the George Carlin Congregation.
American Way
Posted February 11, 2008 at 7:57 pm | Permalink
Chas,
You need to realize, the superdelegates ARE the party elite. That’s not a negative.
Doesn’t that bother you? The top 20% get to have the power to overrule the delegate count by the majority.
Amway
http://www.minnesotamonitor.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3034
…but some delegates cannot be wooed by courting caucus-goers and primary voters. In the Democratic Party they are called superdelegates, and in the Republican Party they are unpledged delegates. Unlike pledged delegates, many are not selected by the voters in each party.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/scorecard/#val=R
There are currently 2,380 total delegates to the Republican National Convention, including 1,917 pledged delegates and 463 unpledged delegates. The total number of delegate votes needed to win the nomination is 1,191.
• Unpledged delegates in the Republican Party do not have to indicate a candidate preference, but a majority are elected just like pledged delegates. Of the 463 unpledged delegates, 123 are RNC members who become delegates automatically.
And last but not least, here is a list of the names of the Democratic Superdelegates.
demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegates-who-havent-endorsed.html
Amway – Now it’s your turn to tell me, WHO ARE THE UNPLEDGED DELEGATES?!? I was very glad to finally ease your mind about the superdelegates, I know how worried you were.