I can hardly wait for the fight to start. But just so’s you know, “winning” a blog fight is like winning gold in the Special Olympics, you’re still retarded.
And you’re going to act like you’ve never heard that before? THE OUTRAGE!!!! Go on, act like you’ve never joked about that stuff? You superior person you? I bow to you, almighty giant of morality.
I must be a glutton for punishment. I get on here, knowing the usual dummies are going to get here and fight about trivial, useless bs. Always, everyday. And yet the pleasure that comes with the pain is…There are still some good people on here from “both sides” that make it seem worth staying on here.
“A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C — a value large enough to wipe out nearly all the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year’s time. For all four sources, it’s the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn’t itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.”
——————–
I wanted to post this link again today to see if we could get some some assurance that these numbers aren’t correct and that global cooling isn’t something to be concerned about. Which concerns me a lot more than global warming. OR could it be that we really can’t predict the climate trends? Because this cooling wasn’t supposed to be happening.
“I can hardly wait for the fight to start. But just so’s you know, ‘winning’ a blog fight is like winning gold in the Special Olympics, you’re still retarded.”
I am offended. I work with people with developmental disabilities. The Special Olympics are real athletic competitions where the participants have to push themselves as hard as anyone else, and winners earn it like anyone else who wins a competition. No one is just is just the sum of their disabilities or abilities. They’re people, pure and simple.
Blogging, on the other hand, particularly in an unmoderated board like this one, is very different. People go in, post their opinion, and because the keep their opinions they go away as winners in their own minds. They also come and and go out convinced that “their side” is right and also the persecuted one. Then they come back to the blog beating their chests about how they’ve won and how they’ve beaten the libs/cons who have had to resort to personal attacks to cope with them (while being blind to the flame bombs they themselves are throwing).
The point of your comments about blogging might be well taken, Pfeefer, but the comparision with Special Olympics is misleading and unfair.
Outlander, there is a difference between climate change and weather and even climate fluctuations. There is nothing about global warming theory that is contradicted by occasional fluctuations that result in the occasional colder winter or cooler summer. If the cooling this year were to continue for several more years, there would be something, and climate scientists would definitely be taking a look at what is going on.
Just to be clear, and I do not claim to be an expert. Global climate change is measured as long term phenomena, and fluctuations caused by EL NINO or La Nina would have to be factored in.
But looking around and saying, “boy, it’s cold this winter, those global warming people must be all wet” is way too simplistic.
It’s just that the computer climate models are way too simplistic currently and its through those CCM’s that the GW Alarmists are making their inaccurate predictions. The logical follow would be…
I haven’t looked at the thread since yesterday mid afternoon, but at that time it was becoming another “I’m right and that makes you wrong” with the topic being who is / isn’t a racist. Going pretty much no where, just that no one seemed able to NOT respond so they posted new words attempting to make their position even more clear…
And since The Eagle chooses to exercise absolutely no control of oversight over its WEBlog, they may have little alternative to simply shutting it down.
Yes, Linda, wasn’t the thread on the local preacher who tied himself to Wild West World (can’t for the life of me remember his name - repression is a helpful defense, sometimes) still the all time post record holder? J R will know when he comes around.
I agree, Steven. It sends a message without judging a particular offender (’cause there are always two sides to every story!). Just a reminder. And it seems to have worked for two days in a row.
Since BDP Fleettwood had no response to this yesterday, here it is again for your reading pleasure.
BDP Fleettwood is so damn dumb that he doesn’t realize that his statistics actually prove exactly what WE’RE saying:
“In 1993, the top 1% were paying 28.7% of all taxes. The bottom 50%? Earning only 15% of the income but paying just 4.8% of the income taxes.”
NOW “we find the top 1% of all income earners in the United States paying a total of 20.3% of all of the personal income taxes collected by the IRS. The bottom 50% of all income earners were payign only 7.2% of all income taxes.”
So 15 years ago, the top 1 percent paid 8.7 percent MORE than they do now and the bottom 50 percent paid 2.4 percent LESS than they do now.
Exactly our point–the rich pay LESS and the poor pay MORE under Bush than ever before.
BTW, Fleettwood, if you weren’t the BDP, you’d see that this hurts people like you too.
Agnostic, I should have chosen another analogy, so I apologize. My Grandma taught school 45 years and the last 15 of that she taught special education, so I do know better and meant nothing by it. Although it was a bad choice and does come off very wrong on a computer with no emphasis on intent, I truly didn’t mean any degradation to the special ones. hell, I even think I insulted them comparing that Special Olympics to certain bloggers here.
But on the other hand, a friend of mine worked at Starkey for years and years and loved his clients to death. Yet he called himself a “tard guard”, go figure…
Pleef, anyone who calls themselves a tard guard obviously has clue about how offensive that remark is. There used to be a spec ed teacher who ran a tard blog site, she said she meant it lovingly. NOT.
Working in EMS, I do understand how some things you’ve just gotta laugh at that are bad, but this isn’t one of them.
I find it offensive, not because I have a disabled child, but because it is degrading to use such a slur. I don’t think ‘nigga’ is endearing either.
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn’t itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.”
Just visited Acapulco, which had the lowest recorded temperature ever while I was there — 15C.
Flew over Mex City. If you don’t think the puny efforts of man have an affect on what’s happening below, you should see it. The haze extends for hundreds of miles.
Do as I say, not as I do . . . I’m shocked, I tell ya! SHOCKED!!
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“Dem hopefuls won tax breaks for contributors”
“Both Democratic presidential candidates, who promise to curb the influence of corporate lobbyists in Washington, helped enact narrowly tailored tax breaks sought by major campaign contributors.
Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential campaign has accepted $54,350 from members of a law firm that in 2006 lobbied him to introduce a tax provision for a Japanese drug company with operations in Illinois, according to public records and interviews. The government estimates the provision, which became law in December 2006, will cost the treasury $800,000.
In 2002, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton introduced legislation at the request of Rienzi & Sons, a Queens, N.Y., food importer, according to company president Michael Rienzi. The provision, which became law in December 2004, required the government to refund tens of thousands of dollars in duty charged on imported tomato products, Rienzi told USA TODAY.”
Some things never change, do they?
____________
RE: the last parting shot from yesterday:
Capn: I took no position on, nor did (or do) I care, whether Regular-Republican is or isn’t JM. Your panties are in a bundle on that one, not mine. My only point was that you spent so much time and effort on WHO he was (as if that mattered) that you routinely ignored WHAT he said. And in doing so, he was leading you around by the nose.
Chas’ worshipping at the feet of race extortionist Jackson (as well as apparantly being a pseudo-Forrest Gump - was there anyone he didn’t know? Ah - Chas’ Brushes with Greatness!!) was the point there; why your pathetic self came in on this side non-issue is beyond me. Just trying to raise yourself to my standards, I suppose. Nice try!
Looks like the utilities have an absolute death grip on the kansas legislature this year. Wonder why the WE didnt print this?
They killed the net metering bill that would have allowed folks who produce power to turn their meters backwards.
So much for alternative energy promotion. I guess alternative energy is GOOD if it is produced by big power companies, but BAD if produced by consumers.
FORTY FOUR states have such a provision, so this has NOTHING to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with corporate death grips on your utility bills. Anyone think this is a victim of the holcomb bullying?
Okay, I have a couple of questions so that I can understand this better. When the Feds issue a rate cut, what is actually being cut? What interest rates does it affect? I’m curious because I’m not sure of the answer, and it seems to me, if they are cutting interest rates that effect new home mortgages or even refinancing, how is that going to help? The people that are truly hurting won’t have the credit to take advantage of the rate cuts. So someone out there who understands the economy better than me, would you mind taking the time to give me explanations to my questions.
TDT, others can explain it better but the rate cut is to Fed Funds. The rate banks are charged to buy money. This rate is not directly tied to what Joe Blow consumer will be charged for a loan.
And when the bank can buy their money at a lower rate it’s supposed to “free up” more money for them to lend. But, in today’s economy they’re taking a much closer look at their borrowers so only those who could borrow before the money was “freed up” are given loans.
Linda - That was what I was thinking, so I don’t imagine how it is going to help. I’m hoping someone can get on here and explain to me how this is supposed to help the economy. I just don’t see it.
The prime rate, as reported by the Wall Street Journal’s bank survey, is among the most widely used benchmark in setting home equity lines of credit and credit card rates. It is in turn based on the fed funds rate, which is set by the Federal Reserve. The COFI (11th District cost of funds index) is a widely used benchmark for adjustable-rate mortgages.
Prime rate, fed funds, COFI Updated 2/20/2008
This week Month ago Year ago
WSJ Prime Rate 6.00 6.50 8.25
Federal Discount Rate 3.50 4.00 6.25
Fed Funds Rate 3.00 3.50 5.25
11th District Cost of Funds 4.072 4.172 4.396
I wish kfg would jump in here, or if Vaughn was around (and kept his remarks to English vs. his native language of legal) it would be explained well to all of us!
I “think” sometimes the fed rate does have an affect on the prime rate. And our loans and interest rates are set according to what the prime rate is and adjusted for our credit worthiness. The better your credit the closer to prime you will be charged. I “think.” kfg? Vaughn?
TDT, I’ll try to give a simplistic explanation or two in response to your questions.
First, while you addressed your question to Fleet, “prime plus or minus a percentage” refers to the interest rate being paid by the borrower. If the loan carries an interest rate of, e.g., Prime + one percent, then the borrower pays, in interest, the prime rate of interest being charged by the bank plus one percent. The cut in the federal funds rate would affect the prime rate charged by the bank, reducing it in this case, so the borrower would pay less interest than would have been paid, making the loan more “affordable”. The prime rate, of course, refers to the rate that is charged to the most “creditworthy” customers.
Helping the economy works a bit like this; if the federal funds rate is lowered, the rate that the bank will charge for its loan may be lowered, while keeping the “yield” positive (”yield” is the delta between the cost of money to the bank and the interest rate at which it is loaned). This allows businesses, e.g., to borrow at a lower cost, which will improve the profit margins for the businesses, assuming the loaned funds are used in a manner which increases business productivity, for example, which also might allow the business to sell its good or service at a lower cost while still remaining profitable.
Linda, yes you are right. The rate banks charge you for a loan is often tied to the Fed Fund Rate but not directly. Of the ones Fleet used the WSJ prime rate is the most often used as the benchmark for variable rate home loans.
The key here is that banks do not have to change their rates just because their cost changed.
BDP Fleettwood ignores the main point and comes back with–”If I pay 28.7% of my income and you pay 4.8% of your income, why aren’t you happy?”
1. Like Fleettwood makes more than I do. That’s very droll.
The last three cars my wife and I purchased, we bought off the lot new and paid cash for them. And yes, they cost several hundred dollars more than they should have so we could subsidize sky-boxes for the Koch bros. at the new arena.
2. The point was that income taxes for the rich are going down and income taxes for the poor are going up under Bush.
This is shown by your own statistics.
This means if you make less than 200,000 dollars, and I’m willing to bet money that Fleettwood does, he probably has a bigger tax load now than he did before George Worst-President-Ever Bush.
Simply, Fleet, the nominal interest rate on said mortgage would be at 5.5%. Commerce appears to be wagering on another cut, which would increase its yield on said mortgage over time. It would also appear to me that only the “best” customers would get the benefit of said rate.
Taking this one step further, it would be instructive to see what Commerce is offering on its CDs; I’d speculate the rate has lowered recently.
One additional bit of trivia..the Federal Reserve bank is not a governmental entity. It is a conduit for the US Mints to get cash to commercial banks. Yes, the head is appointed by the President, but it is not a governmental unit.
Further trivia…every Federal Reserve location has a very large “S” on its property (to symbolize the dollar sign). In Minneapolis, for example, it is a hedge that can only be seen as an “S” from the second floor windows. In Dallas, I believe it is in the concrete sidewalk.
Okay, after reading all this, I think I have a better understanding. Thank all of you for being so helpful.
As Vaughn pointed out, this mainly is to help businesses who want loans to be more productive and offer cheaper products. I think the problem with cutting rates then, is that the things that are skyrocketing in price, will NOT be effected by a rate cut. Will our gas prices go down? How about our food prices? KFG just remarked that wheat is now over $12 a bushel, which is 3 times what she was paid last year. Does anyone know if the rate reduction helps with the prices of food and gas?
When I was a kid, my dad worked for the RailRoad. We used to go to the empty grain hopper cars and shovel out the grain into our 1950 dodge pickup
- and then take it to a local feed store and sell for scrap grain used for feed.
It worked until the Railroad found out people were actually making money on their spillage.
When a rate is cut, the dollar dies just a bit more. Have you seen gold prices today? Go to Kitco.com. When gold goes up, the dollar dies. Is this hard to see? I’m not even an economics man. But by all means, invest in paper stocks!
Dropping the fed rate encourages corporate spending. They do physical improvements, build new facilities, buy new equipment, new vehicles, etc… When money is cheap to borrow it is good for the economy in this way. The rate for individual lenders is also affected favorable because they are in one way or another pegged to this rate.
The danger in this low rate is with those lenders who offer an adjusted rate pegged on this rate. Eventually as it always does when the rate goes up your payment goes up also. Hence the housing repo crisis.
Hillary’s proposal to freeze/cap the interest on credit cards and personal loans will in essence close the door to any with bad credit. That is how a lender protects themselves from an applicant with a history of bailing out on loans.
This lack of understanding of the economics of our country is scary.
Sarah the way to stop this is to invest in money market funds with set rates such as CD’s. Also you can invest in mutuals with gold as their standard. This way you don’t pay the high cost of acquiring gold or the expense of protecting it but are rewarded with the increase in value.
TDT you are confusing two economic standards. What KFG is stating about the increase in the price she receives for her wheat in a direct result of ’supply and demand’. As we find more uses for a grain with no corresponding supply the greater demand will raise the price of acquiring the wheat. When farmers increase the amount of wheat raised the price will drop accordingly. No relationship to the fed rate. Unless you figure that that new combine the farmer needs for the increased harvest can be purchased with cheaper rates to finance it.
TDT only in an indirect way such as cheaper financing for the manufacturer to increase the productivity rate for his product. This rate will then be passed to the consumer in a price decrease on the product they buy because the cost and depreciation will be stretched out for several years to reflect the lower rate.
Oil markets are their own animals TDT and independent of U.S. control. It depends on what OPEC and Refinery market speculators feel like charging.
Then there are Enterprise zones which can consist of entire states or even portions of cities. (the reason why gas is different prices in different parts of a city)
Oil is a weird business, it’s like futures in grain products in a way, the price can change while the product a year old is sitting in a tank that was purchased at a cheaper price but still affected by what the oil powers dictates the price should be.
ksgrm - Actually I’m not confusing two economic standards. I’m pointing out that while the feds continue to cut the rate, it is not truly helping the economy from my standpoint because the MAIN necessities such as gas to get to work, gas to heat my home, and food to fill my belly, are rising at a rate that is making it more and more difficult to afford. All this is doing is giving a chance for people who are already rich to take advantage of a recession, while those that are truly struggling will just go further and further down.
Actually, as much as supply and demand, the wheat price is related to the dollar. High dollar value = lower wheat prices. Low dollar value = higher wheat prices.
That’s because so much of the “demand” is export demand. And when the dollar is weak, relative to other currencies, those trolling the export market chose to buy US wheat instead of from Canada, Australia, Argentina, etc.
It’s all compounded because the wheat crop has been failing globally for several years. Our world reserves are VERY low, and that causes shortages, which create higher prices.
And even a worldwide bumper crop wont immediately lower the price of wheat. It’s going to take a couple of years at least of bumper crops to rebuild reserves. And that is where population growth comes in. There is just more food demand world wide.
And… when the government promotes ethanol and other biofuels, there is “acreage competition”. In other words, there is incentive to take a fixed amount of acreage and plant MORE of it to corn as opposed to wheat. When wheat prices go up, there is incentive to plant wheat instead of corn. Competition for the fixed acres.
And all this grain price increase is great, but has anyone looked at the price of inputs lately? They are predicting HUGE increases in fertilizer and herbicide prices, and even shortages because they cant meet the demand for acres planted.
And fuel prices keep going up too. Equipment shortages are appearing in local dealerships. They cant guarantee delivery this year and wont even QUOTE a price for new equipment until it arrives.
I dont see an end to higher food prices any time soon.
Does this mean anything? Sure does, it means we get stuck with the bill for criminal bankers offering sweet deals to anxious folks who can’t afford it. But they’ll get them in a home. Whatever.
TDT, supply and demand only work when there is “elastic” demand for goods and services. When prices rise on items that have “inelastic” demand, and they go up faster than productivity, then you get inflation.
And that is what is happening now. The items you speak of, “such as gas to get to work, gas to heat my home, and food to fill my belly” are generally considered to be “inelastic” demand.
In other words, you need them, and cant really stop buying them or cut back much when the price goes up. For instance, clothing is essentially an “elastic demand” item. If I cant afford it, I dont buy it. I can put it off because I dont really “need” it in the sense that I “need” gas to get to work or fuel to heat my home. The demand for health care is usually inelastic. You need it when you need it, no matter what the price. Same for utilities. And in some sense, food as well.
I mean, you can cut back on food and eat beans and rice instead of steak and fresh veggies, but you need food of SOME sort when you need it.
And because corn and wheat are building blocks for almost all food products, even meat, the demand for grain is more inelastic than elastic.
Add in the demand for grains to produce biofuels, and you get demand pressure on an inelastic commodidty that we have LITTLE or no control, or immediate control, over the production and/or productivity.
The short answer? Yer screwed on the very necessities of life. You cant cut back quickly or in a meaningful way.
TDT, to add a bit to what Regular and ksgrm have posted, the effect of a lowering of the federal funds rate (the rate charged on loans between banks) on oil and other commodities you referenced is likely to increase to cost of oil, using it as an example. Why? (Look out, this will be tedious) The world price of oil, at this point, is pegged to the dollar. Cheaper money causes devaluation of the dollar, and is inflationary in the respect that the OPEC nations, desiring to keep their economic returns at a certain level, will need to increase their price in order to realize the same nominal return on the oil. As was posted yesterday on another thread, former Fed chairman Greenspan was noting the effect on the economies of the Gulf states (inflation) as the result of the action of the Federal Reserve here in lowering the cost of money. I believe this was in the context of removing the dollar as the standard currency for world oil trading.
So, there is an effect, not the one you and I and many others would want, from the lowering of the federal funds rate on oil prices (and by extension, the price of food, given increased production and transportation costs due to the increase in the price of petroleum as another example and not even going into increased fertilizer costs). As Regular and ksgrm have noted, it is an indirect effect, but given the state of the world oil market, such as it is, a very real effect.
The increased price that OPEC members charge, BTW, comes from decisions concerning the level of production in the member countries. As world wide demand for oil increases, one way to increase price is to hold supply (production) steady, which, last I read, is what the current policy is.
Sorry for the tediousness and overly simplistic nature of the above.
TDT, of course the problem of inelasticity of demand that kfg posted while I was working on my tedious post, also contributes for all the reasons she sets out. Bottom line is that in a perverse way, the actions of the Fed in cutting the federal funds rate will add to the increase in price for these goods, not decreasing the rate of increase nor the price thereof anytime soon.
TDT, I don’t know what these other folks do for a living, probably sell loans or broker stocks or something. But we can’t afford anything anymore because the dollar is ceasing to be. It is dying AND NOT BY FRIGGIN ACCIDENT. Au goes up, our purchasing power goes down. And it’s not because gold is actually going up, because gold should be over $2000 an oz. and silver should be at over $100 an oz. This is for real and we are feeling the throes of a big, ugly change in our country and I might add soveriegnty. If you aren’t buying metals, you’ll be sorry. I’m seeing bread lines as is Dr. Paul Craig Roberts (Asst Sec. of Treasury under Reagan as well as editor of The Wall Street Journal) and Joseph Stiglitz (Nobel prize winning economist). But don’t take my word for it, I’m just the local simpleton, “conspiracy” nut.
America has no more manufacturing or services, really. All we have is that stinking Federal Reserve Note and Greenspan is talking about killing it as the world reserve note. Our economy is screwed unless we get rid of that Fereal reserve and back up our dollar with real value, not this fiat crap.
Vote Ron Paul or it’s all over. But even then, the stinking Congress are equally as useless to We The People.
TDT the very real problem about fuel prices you talk about isn’t a money supply problem. It in an environmental issue. As a nation we let control of that part of economy be taken over by OPEC. Until we start drilling down to our own sources, and we have plenty of those, oil will continue to go up. If we have our own supply and the demand for foreign oil goes down the price will go down as well for fuel.
We as a county need to make the choice between pristine parts of Alaska and our gulf shores and being held hostage to S. America and the middle east. I think we can do this with a minimal impact on the environment. Others don’t. This is a problem we will have to face in the near future. And then we will need to replace the decades old refineries that we currently have the US economy will become the strongest in the world once again.
Tom P it does sound like a good idea on the face of it but when you look world wide where we used to have a gold standard and many think we still do, the Euro has flourished with no back up standard.
For this reason money supply doesn’t appear to me to matter. JMOHO.
Pleef, it is all over for Ron Paul, didn’t he suspend his campaign and if he had a surge and won the rest of the delegates he wouldn’t have enough delegates to win.
You are right on with the ‘elastic’ and ‘inelastic’ commodities. We as a country have been let down by the lack of forsight by the people in power for many years. China has been snapping up our national resources for decades and in the last 15 years have stepped up that demand. This has resulted in a giant jump in the cost of building, note thiefs stripping copper from public utility poles, and has led now to the grabbing of our food sources. Inflation has to follow.
And people wonder why Presidents pal around with the King of Saudi Arabia?
If you get your nation’s life blood from the controlling member of OPEC, you better kiss the ring of the King or you won’t be sitting at the dinner table.
It’s a complex, dizzying world of back room economics. I’m sure most of us would be shocked about what actually happens when prices are controlled by the World’s more powerful leaders and private entrepreneurs. Really, there isn’t much we can do it about it either.
No, he never suspended his election. He scaled back his team from the states he lost to keep the money going to the one’s still left. He still has a shot. He’s won anyway as he has put REAl issues into the debates and his “revolution” will carry on long after he’s gone. He’ll still be in Minneapolis. He’s running a congressional campaign as well. He’s still in, but you’d never know it with the corporate media.
I’m going to say that there is something we can do about it. But we as a Nation have to be willing to sacrifice beyond anything we’ve ever sacrificed. I’m afraid that the apparatus’ are already set up to stop any rising up that WILL happen after the mass populace realizes they have been had. We’re going to see American’s become hungry animals and it’s going to be a scary deal. Maybe you’re right, maybe we can’t “do anything”, but I’d rather die trying.
How does he have a shot? he hasn’t won any primaries or caucuses, It doesn’t look like he ever will, hard to get nominated with only 19 delegates, the only way he has a chance is if Mccain has a heart attack and dies, and if that happened Romney would unsuspend his campaign. The best he can hope for is a chance to give a speech at the convention, the RNC isn’t going to let him be the keynote.
To those who can’t afford healthcare, or those who complain about high energy prices, do you go to Casinos and gamble your spare change away? Do you buy lottery tickets?
If not, you should. Spend every last dime you have HOPING for the jackpot.
You’re probably right, Tom (about Romney). But in any case Paul will be at the convention, so he’ll have fought all the way for us. If We The People don’t want real change, we won’t get it. I’m just happy to be a part of it, even til the end of his run. He’s started something that until our freedom’s are completely gone, will not go away quietly. I’m anxious for his speech and hopefully it will be a “told you so” speech at that.
Isn’t “stagflation” the problem? This is when you have zero growth, or recession, and inflation. Reponding to either of these problems makes the other worse.
For the record, I think this is going to be much worse than 1982. I hope the democratic president doesn’t try to do what Reagan did on the subject: “This problem was here when we started our watch.” i.e., blame Carter/Bush.
Steven this brings back to my mind the long gas lines in the seventies. We have it very good so far. This could change any day as we know. Right now we have to make a choice between having pizza delivered tonight or gas to go to work tomorrow.
When supply tightens because there will be those who genuinely can’t afford the price increase, and lessening the supply will help to keep the price high for a while, then the gas lines will come back until the American people say ‘Enough!’. We will then become one saying I don’t care what party you represent we want this problem fixed. Now!
This more than anything else will unite the American people.
Steven one thing everyone is avoiding like the plague is Algore saying we need $5 gasoline so fewer people will drive the co2 emissions will go down.
They are getting their wish and the over the top environmentalists in control are backing them up.
Eventually the American people will get the entire picture and the uprising will be refreshing. With the new evidence about The New Ice Age many will see themselves for the fools they have allowed themselves to be played for so long.
I can hardly wait until I see my faith in the common sense of the American people come back to the forefront.
But thank goodness we have enough money to have all of these wars! phew! Do we know who the “terrorists” are? How do we know when we’ve beaten these “terrorists”?
We don’t, we’ll just keep having wars without end to bankrupt us into bread lines.
Steven Davis, there is much debate in the financial press over the potential for a period of stagflation. It seems to be a hot topic, and one upon which there is much disagreement. I don’t think there needs to be a recession, as defined, for there to be a stagflation. Rather, there needs to be a condition of either no to very low growth in the economy, combined with inflation and persistent unemployment.
In a period of stafglation, the otherwise positive effects of a recession on an economy are made moot; the inflation is not reduced due to a period of economic slowdown, for example. Traditionally, a recession acts to reduce inflationary pressures, as fewer dollars (in the case of the U.S.) are available to purchase goods, and the economy eventually “wrings out” inflation, and then proceeds forward, as demand increases along with excess capacity being utilized to produce the needed goods and services to meet the demand. The increase in activity will result in additional job creation, etc., all to the good.
One commentator, whose name I have forgotten already, states that periods of stagflation occur when there is too much money chasing too few goods (inflation) combined with an economic slowdown resulting from external factors which inhibits the ability of the economy to respond to the inflationary pressures by increasing production, which also leads to the persistent unemployment problem. His thesis was that the actions of the fed in cutting rates, thereby theoretically increasing the money supply, would likely result in a period of stagflation, as the external factors (costs of oil, e.g.) were not in control of the U.S. economy, and thus there would be little to no attempt to increase production, given the higher costs thereof and the fact that the external factors affecting business are also affecting consumers, who have less disposable income to devote to the purchase of new goods and services.
I don’t know if he’s right; but as recessions are a part and parcel of the normal business cycle, it seems that it may well be counterproductive to make it easier to borrow, etc., if there is little incentive to produce more, which adds to the inflationary pressures on the economy, which overwhelm the natural results of a recession in reducing the same. The question then occurs: absent this being a presidential election year, would Congress and the President even proposed the “stimulus” plan, and, although I would hope the answer to this would be in the negative, would the Fed have been as agressive as it has been in cutting the various funds rates it controls?
Well guys, that was incredibly informative, and also very bleak and depressing. Now that I understand much better, I kind of wish I was still ignorant. Ignorance is bliss.
I am sure happy to read this…I was just starting to lose sleep over worrying about ‘Man Made Global Warming’ and the end of civilization as we know it on Earth. Oh no, I just thought of this, now I might start worrying about what the AGW hysterics are going to have to obsess about.
Blog: Science Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming
“Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile — the list goes on and on.
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn’t itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.
Let’s hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans — and most of the crops and animals we depend on — prefer a temperature closer to 70.
Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.”
Steven I can imagine the alternative scenario but am old enough to remember several times in the past that we have achieved a coming together of the country for a common cause.
I will have to admit they are many more voter on both ends of the political parties. Both radical rights and lefts. This is an unknown that could change the outcome.
I hope not.
Pleefer I have to disagree with you on some level. Ron Paul had some good ideas but his idea to become an isolationist nation wasn’t one of those. As a weak country economically we will be a target for many wanting to take over our fine country. Without a strong military we are an open target.
Stacked up on each other like cord wood. Refrigerators the size of an ottoman stool. Land sold by the square foot and priced with a gold standard.
Standards so restrictive you can’t even change your own oil unless you spend $50 dollars for an environmental kit to keep from contaminating the ground (required by law.)
Gas charged per quart (it’s per liter in Europe)
Super strict inspections on vehicles. If you have an oil leak - car doesn’t pass inspection. If you have rust in your running boards, trunk, fender wells, undercarriage or anywhere else, your car doesn’t pass inspection.
Environmental Disposal tax for everything and I mean everything you throw away.
And that’s just the tip of the tax burden iceberg.
An U.S. lawnmower would never pass standards in Europe. Of course, mowing your postage stamp sized yard wouldn’t be much of a chore anyway.
After all this talk of doom and gloom, I now have a picture in my mind of Russia back in the late 70’s, early 80’s, where people were shown waiting in line for essentials like bread and t.p. The government was in charge of everything, and doled out just enough to the peons for them to survive, nothing more. How’s that for conspiracy Pleefer?
Boxlock you make a good point. A renewed ice age will decrease the crops we now depend on and lessen the supply worldwide. We will then face higher food costs as well as higher fuel cost to heat with.
What a mess we have made for ourselves. Is there an answer? TDT you have depressed me and I think I will just go to lunch will food is still available.
Collectively, you all could probably teach a basic macro-economics class. I don’t think I have much to add. KFG, TDT, VT, et. all, well done.
Let’s speak about the gold standard, however.
I understand, Pleefer, the fascination with the gold standard, but I believe it’s an illusion. The value of money is based on only one thing, ultimately: it’s widespread acceptance in trade for goods or services. Backing money with a a commodity of real value, like gold, may make the money more acceptable, but the dollar’s acceptability is not really the problem (when’s the last time someone refused to take dollars, and instead demanded an item of value instead?).
The dollar is the de facto world currency, and despite our problems (and they are serious) will likely be so for the foreseeable future. And you’re right, the IMF bars pegging currency to gold.
So why would we peg our monetary policy to the supply of a metal which has so much other commercial use, and the supply of which we have relatively little control. What is the advantage to doing so? The gold supplies currently kept by the US Govt. wouldn’t even begin to back the dollars currently in circulation; we’d have to go out and get more gold to do so. What do we pay for it with? Dollars backed in the very commodity we’re buying? And buying from who? S. Africa, China are the largest producers.
No, I think a return to the gold standard is an illusion of stability. Having a gold standard has NEVER prevented a government from simply printing money when it thought it needed to.
What happens to us and our economy when the rest of the world stops believing in our dollar? And move on to the Euro or Asian currency? We crumble and become “less than important” other than we are able to bomb the countries back to our dollar.
Be sure and use sunscreen ksgrm, you don’t want to drive up the cost of health care by getting skin cancer.
Use a recyclable umbrella and make sure the chair you sit in doesn’t damage the surfaces it sits upon or you’ll be responsible for eroding natural surface viabilities.
Oh and before you go back inside, be sure to clean your shoes or remove them, as you don’t want to bring in mold, mildew, soil or nematodes that will contaminate your work place.
Pleefer, I’m just not in a situation to do that. When I get my paycheck, I pay my bills, by groceries, fill up my gas tank, and that’s pretty much all that’s left. Okay, so my addiction is renting movies, but even then, I look for good deals.
buy ramen noodles whenever you go to the store. grow a little garden this spring. buy a Berkey water purifier online. the little sport berkey’s are cheap. do it man. rent one movie instead of two. a little bit is worth it. man. this country hasn’t felt the way it’s about to since 1929.
the difference between 1929 and now is that there’s a police state apparatus installed now. so if we get mad that we’re hungry, we’ll just get that anger tortured out of us.
First off, how much gold is there in the world? The Gold Institute estimates 118,000 tons (a ton is 1,000 kilograms), while the World Gold Council calls it 145,000 tons. Of course, no one knows for certain, as gold exists in government, bank, and private bullion holdings, jewelry, coins of all types, and, being the private metal that it is, quite a bit of gold is squirreled away out of reach of any official accounting.
For the sake of argument, let’s call it 138,000 tons, a number comfortably within those two official estimates.
A kilogram of gold is 32.15 troy ounces, so at $967.70 an ounce, a kilogram is worth $31,111.55. A ton is 1,000 kilos, which makes each ton worth $31,111,550.00.
Take that figure and multiply by our estimate of total world gold supply at 138,000 tons, and we arrive at $4,293,393,900,000. Round it off to $4.3 trillion dollars. So all the gold in the world is worth 4.3 trillion dollars.
There isn’t enough gold in the world, to cover even half of the US National Debt.
Problem is, I like to cook, it’s therapeutic. And boiling water for Ramen Noodles just doesn’t cut the mustard. Second, I don’t know anything about growing a garden. Now renting just one movie is all right, but actually what I do now is pay 9.95 per month at Family Video, get my rentals 1/2 price, and considering that their new releases are only $2.59, their nearly new are $1, and then the older ones are 2 for $1, and on Tues., Wed., and Thurs. if you rent a new release you get a free rental on movies that are a $1, it really is pretty inexpensive.
I wish I had learned how to can from my mom and aunt when I had the chance. That would come in handy. Especially if I could figure out how to grow a garden. I even have a perfect space for it.
gardens are easy, if you don’t try too hard at growing corn. you’ll end up crying. beans, taters, tomaters, carrots…all grow fairly easily. even w/o a green thumb. I know, I succeeded last year.
So Pleefer, do the veggies you are referring to need lots of sun, or very little sun. My back yard is shady, since my neighbor behind me has a large tree, but my front yard on the east gets very good sunlight.
“Strategic Priorities of the Department of the Treasury
A top priority of the Department is the fundamental reform of entitlement programs. Without this reform, annual outlays by the federal government for Social Security and Medicare are projected to more than double by 2080, representing a grave threat to the American economy. In partnership with Congress, the Department of the Treasury will bring its economic and fiscal expertise to design and implement needed entitlement program reform.
The Department will actively strive to maintain America’s strength and prosperity by developing and implementing policies that encourage overall economic growth. The Treasury Department will collaborate with Congress to establish pro-growth tax programs, and ensure that U.S. regulations provide necessary protections without harming our international competitive position and the competitiveness of U.S. capital markets.”
TDT, if you like to cook you should be better off than most. WHOLE foods, processed in your kitchen, are much cheaper than the already processed and packaged kind.
Now, if you just eat things when they are in season, you save money and get better quality. Canning and freezing things in seasons helps too.
Buy local. Find some friendly farmers. Save the cost and environmental problems of shipping and eating foods out of season.
Whole grains are your friend. Meat is a treat.
And drink plenty of TAP water!
hehehehehe. ALL I ever needed to know I learned in Home Ec, not kindergarten.
Thanks for the tip KFG, I will go and get that book. It’s near time to start on this little project anyway. And I always drink tap water. I just never got into the bottled water craze.
I’ve always had half a day of direct sun. but kfg is right go get that book. amazon prolly has a used one if not book-a-holic. getting in good with the good farmers is a good thing. I think i’m gonna do it real easy this year and just do a “salad garden” which is just plotting our a 15X15 area and throwing all kinds of seeds in it. hopefully it’ll go off right. *fingers crossing
265 Comments
I can hardly wait for the fight to start. But just so’s you know, “winning” a blog fight is like winning gold in the Special Olympics, you’re still retarded.
Special Olympics - retared…
We are now going to make fun of people with disabilities? New low or more of the same?
retared = retarded
See what I mean Hud?
I prefer to see these blogs as the Towers of Babel. No understanding, nothing constructive, and then the fights break out.
Wars and rumors of wars…
And you’re going to act like you’ve never heard that before? THE OUTRAGE!!!! Go on, act like you’ve never joked about that stuff? You superior person you? I bow to you, almighty giant of morality.
The retarded Republicans are eating their own:
“McCain threw me under the straight talk bus!”
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/02/27/roberts.cunningham.intv.cnn
I must be a glutton for punishment. I get on here, knowing the usual dummies are going to get here and fight about trivial, useless bs. Always, everyday. And yet the pleasure that comes with the pain is…There are still some good people on here from “both sides” that make it seem worth staying on here.
http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm
“A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C — a value large enough to wipe out nearly all the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year’s time. For all four sources, it’s the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn’t itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.”
——————–
I wanted to post this link again today to see if we could get some some assurance that these numbers aren’t correct and that global cooling isn’t something to be concerned about. Which concerns me a lot more than global warming. OR could it be that we really can’t predict the climate trends? Because this cooling wasn’t supposed to be happening.
“I can hardly wait for the fight to start. But just so’s you know, ‘winning’ a blog fight is like winning gold in the Special Olympics, you’re still retarded.”
I am offended. I work with people with developmental disabilities. The Special Olympics are real athletic competitions where the participants have to push themselves as hard as anyone else, and winners earn it like anyone else who wins a competition. No one is just is just the sum of their disabilities or abilities. They’re people, pure and simple.
Blogging, on the other hand, particularly in an unmoderated board like this one, is very different. People go in, post their opinion, and because the keep their opinions they go away as winners in their own minds. They also come and and go out convinced that “their side” is right and also the persecuted one. Then they come back to the blog beating their chests about how they’ve won and how they’ve beaten the libs/cons who have had to resort to personal attacks to cope with them (while being blind to the flame bombs they themselves are throwing).
The point of your comments about blogging might be well taken, Pfeefer, but the comparision with Special Olympics is misleading and unfair.
Loser of last night’s debate in my opinion:
Tim Russert.
Outlander, there is a difference between climate change and weather and even climate fluctuations. There is nothing about global warming theory that is contradicted by occasional fluctuations that result in the occasional colder winter or cooler summer. If the cooling this year were to continue for several more years, there would be something, and climate scientists would definitely be taking a look at what is going on.
Here’s more on “the cooling”.
Note, this is still a popular science source.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080114085128.htm
Kansas
Posted February 27, 2008 at 7:12 am | Permalink
The retarded Republicans are eating their own:
“McCain threw me under the straight talk bus!”
—————————–
Appears to me to be exactly the opposite reading yesterday’s open thread.
Another article.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080128113104.htm
Just to be clear, and I do not claim to be an expert. Global climate change is measured as long term phenomena, and fluctuations caused by EL NINO or La Nina would have to be factored in.
But looking around and saying, “boy, it’s cold this winter, those global warming people must be all wet” is way too simplistic.
It’s just that the computer climate models are way too simplistic currently and its through those CCM’s that the GW Alarmists are making their inaccurate predictions. The logical follow would be…
(chortles)
Note to Wichita Eagle Editorial Department:
To see a properly constructed, monitored, controlled and artful blog visit the URL below:
http://republikan.typepad.com/republikansan/
“Loser of last night’s debate in my opinion:
“Tim Russert.”
Good one! ksagnostic.
I am not able to tell why the Obama/patriotism thread was shut down. Anybody know why?
I haven’t looked at the thread since yesterday mid afternoon, but at that time it was becoming another “I’m right and that makes you wrong” with the topic being who is / isn’t a racist. Going pretty much no where, just that no one seemed able to NOT respond so they posted new words attempting to make their position even more clear…
It may have been, Steven, that the thread just got too long.
Someone, (maybe KFG?) was saying the other day that the Obama threads are the ones getting shut down.
If true, it does make you wonder what that means.
Capn, Haven’t many of the threads on guns or abortion gone well over 4 or 500?
No doubt it was the Prine and Goodman references Steven Davis.
On Tuesday, it’ll be over, thank Goodness.
I was pissed off when uber-rich Kerry wrote himself a loan because he couldn’t get a donation — hell, he couldn’t get arrested — before Iowa.
And then the good burghers of that most boring state of the Union went for plain toast without butter a catapulted Kerry into front-runner status.
Obviously, in retrospect, we would have been much better off with a real fighter like Howard Dean.
Anyway, do I think the Kerry-backers were a bunch of idiots who sold out their principles for a guy who “looked more presidential.”
Why, yes . . . yes, I do.
But it’s over.
Very over.
Of course, the Obama threads are going to attract the hate-mongers–the KKK and neo-Nazis etc.
And since The Eagle chooses to exercise absolutely no control of oversight over its WEBlog, they may have little alternative to simply shutting it down.
Horst Wessel is awaiting his next opportunity Capn.
Yes, Linda, wasn’t the thread on the local preacher who tied himself to Wild West World (can’t for the life of me remember his name - repression is a helpful defense, sometimes) still the all time post record holder? J R will know when he comes around.
Before my time, was this Terry Fox?
I think shutting down threads is an improvement over doing nothing and letting the “discourse” get really ugly.
Yes. It was about Terry Fox.
I agree, Steven. It sends a message without judging a particular offender (’cause there are always two sides to every story!). Just a reminder. And it seems to have worked for two days in a row.
Steven, you mean Terry Fox, I presume??
Since BDP Fleettwood had no response to this yesterday, here it is again for your reading pleasure.
BDP Fleettwood is so damn dumb that he doesn’t realize that his statistics actually prove exactly what WE’RE saying:
“In 1993, the top 1% were paying 28.7% of all taxes. The bottom 50%? Earning only 15% of the income but paying just 4.8% of the income taxes.”
NOW “we find the top 1% of all income earners in the United States paying a total of 20.3% of all of the personal income taxes collected by the IRS. The bottom 50% of all income earners were payign only 7.2% of all income taxes.”
So 15 years ago, the top 1 percent paid 8.7 percent MORE than they do now and the bottom 50 percent paid 2.4 percent LESS than they do now.
Exactly our point–the rich pay LESS and the poor pay MORE under Bush than ever before.
BTW, Fleettwood, if you weren’t the BDP, you’d see that this hurts people like you too.
Agnostic, I should have chosen another analogy, so I apologize. My Grandma taught school 45 years and the last 15 of that she taught special education, so I do know better and meant nothing by it. Although it was a bad choice and does come off very wrong on a computer with no emphasis on intent, I truly didn’t mean any degradation to the special ones. hell, I even think I insulted them comparing that Special Olympics to certain bloggers here.
Hehehe, good one, Pleef, good one!
But on the other hand, a friend of mine worked at Starkey for years and years and loved his clients to death. Yet he called himself a “tard guard”, go figure…
heheh
Pleef, anyone who calls themselves a tard guard obviously has clue about how offensive that remark is. There used to be a spec ed teacher who ran a tard blog site, she said she meant it lovingly. NOT.
Working in EMS, I do understand how some things you’ve just gotta laugh at that are bad, but this isn’t one of them.
I find it offensive, not because I have a disabled child, but because it is degrading to use such a slur. I don’t think ‘nigga’ is endearing either.
I felt that way before I became a mom.
““In 1993, the top 1% were paying 28.7% of all taxes. The bottom 50%? Earning only 15% of the income but paying just 4.8% of the income taxes.””
If I pay 28.7% of my income and you pay 4.8% of your income, why aren’t you happy?
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn’t itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.”
Just visited Acapulco, which had the lowest recorded temperature ever while I was there — 15C.
Flew over Mex City. If you don’t think the puny efforts of man have an affect on what’s happening below, you should see it. The haze extends for hundreds of miles.
Duh
Do as I say, not as I do . . . I’m shocked, I tell ya! SHOCKED!!
—–
“Dem hopefuls won tax breaks for contributors”
“Both Democratic presidential candidates, who promise to curb the influence of corporate lobbyists in Washington, helped enact narrowly tailored tax breaks sought by major campaign contributors.
Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential campaign has accepted $54,350 from members of a law firm that in 2006 lobbied him to introduce a tax provision for a Japanese drug company with operations in Illinois, according to public records and interviews. The government estimates the provision, which became law in December 2006, will cost the treasury $800,000.
In 2002, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton introduced legislation at the request of Rienzi & Sons, a Queens, N.Y., food importer, according to company president Michael Rienzi. The provision, which became law in December 2004, required the government to refund tens of thousands of dollars in duty charged on imported tomato products, Rienzi told USA TODAY.”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-02-25-tax-breaks_N.htm?POE=click-refer
—–
Some things never change, do they?
____________
RE: the last parting shot from yesterday:
Capn: I took no position on, nor did (or do) I care, whether Regular-Republican is or isn’t JM. Your panties are in a bundle on that one, not mine. My only point was that you spent so much time and effort on WHO he was (as if that mattered) that you routinely ignored WHAT he said. And in doing so, he was leading you around by the nose.
Chas’ worshipping at the feet of race extortionist Jackson (as well as apparantly being a pseudo-Forrest Gump - was there anyone he didn’t know? Ah - Chas’ Brushes with Greatness!!) was the point there; why your pathetic self came in on this side non-issue is beyond me. Just trying to raise yourself to my standards, I suppose. Nice try!
LOL GM,
The Forrest Gump analogy popped into my mind as well.
Looks like the utilities have an absolute death grip on the kansas legislature this year. Wonder why the WE didnt print this?
They killed the net metering bill that would have allowed folks who produce power to turn their meters backwards.
So much for alternative energy promotion. I guess alternative energy is GOOD if it is produced by big power companies, but BAD if produced by consumers.
FORTY FOUR states have such a provision, so this has NOTHING to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with corporate death grips on your utility bills. Anyone think this is a victim of the holcomb bullying?
Kansas… as dumb as you think…
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/story/HNS-Local-wind-2-26-08
…and it looks like the Ark River isnt the ONLY one that folks would like access and clean spaces for recreation.
Good for these Friends of the River Folks who want to give the poor, besieged Smoky Hill River a facelift too.
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/Story/sdi-annual-meeting-2-26-08
“pave paradise, put up a parking lot”
Fed chief signals another rate cut
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080227/ap_on_bi_ge/bernanke_congress
Okay, I have a couple of questions so that I can understand this better. When the Feds issue a rate cut, what is actually being cut? What interest rates does it affect? I’m curious because I’m not sure of the answer, and it seems to me, if they are cutting interest rates that effect new home mortgages or even refinancing, how is that going to help? The people that are truly hurting won’t have the credit to take advantage of the rate cuts. So someone out there who understands the economy better than me, would you mind taking the time to give me explanations to my questions.
TDT, others can explain it better but the rate cut is to Fed Funds. The rate banks are charged to buy money. This rate is not directly tied to what Joe Blow consumer will be charged for a loan.
And when the bank can buy their money at a lower rate it’s supposed to “free up” more money for them to lend. But, in today’s economy they’re taking a much closer look at their borrowers so only those who could borrow before the money was “freed up” are given loans.
HUD - So it only helps corporations? Banks?
“This rate is not directly tied to what Joe Blow consumer will be charged for a loan.”
Unless the loan is “Prime plus or minus a percentage.
Hehehehe. Looks like we are not the only ones listening to John Prine.
Take a look at these pictures and TELL me coal power is a good thing. Only one picture of water extraction though.
But in the comments? One of the first ones quotes John Prine.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×2928020
Linda - That was what I was thinking, so I don’t imagine how it is going to help. I’m hoping someone can get on here and explain to me how this is supposed to help the economy. I just don’t see it.
Unless the loan is “Prime plus or minus a percentage.
What does that mean Fleettwood?
The prime rate, as reported by the Wall Street Journal’s bank survey, is among the most widely used benchmark in setting home equity lines of credit and credit card rates. It is in turn based on the fed funds rate, which is set by the Federal Reserve. The COFI (11th District cost of funds index) is a widely used benchmark for adjustable-rate mortgages.
Prime rate, fed funds, COFI Updated 2/20/2008
This week Month ago Year ago
WSJ Prime Rate 6.00 6.50 8.25
Federal Discount Rate 3.50 4.00 6.25
Fed Funds Rate 3.00 3.50 5.25
11th District Cost of Funds 4.072 4.172 4.396
I wish kfg would jump in here, or if Vaughn was around (and kept his remarks to English vs. his native language of legal) it would be explained well to all of us!
I “think” sometimes the fed rate does have an affect on the prime rate. And our loans and interest rates are set according to what the prime rate is and adjusted for our credit worthiness. The better your credit the closer to prime you will be charged. I “think.” kfg? Vaughn?
TDT, I’ll try to give a simplistic explanation or two in response to your questions.
First, while you addressed your question to Fleet, “prime plus or minus a percentage” refers to the interest rate being paid by the borrower. If the loan carries an interest rate of, e.g., Prime + one percent, then the borrower pays, in interest, the prime rate of interest being charged by the bank plus one percent. The cut in the federal funds rate would affect the prime rate charged by the bank, reducing it in this case, so the borrower would pay less interest than would have been paid, making the loan more “affordable”. The prime rate, of course, refers to the rate that is charged to the most “creditworthy” customers.
Helping the economy works a bit like this; if the federal funds rate is lowered, the rate that the bank will charge for its loan may be lowered, while keeping the “yield” positive (”yield” is the delta between the cost of money to the bank and the interest rate at which it is loaned). This allows businesses, e.g., to borrow at a lower cost, which will improve the profit margins for the businesses, assuming the loaned funds are used in a manner which increases business productivity, for example, which also might allow the business to sell its good or service at a lower cost while still remaining profitable.
Much more to this, hopefully this will help.
Well, look at that! And in clear concise English too! Thanks, Vaughn.
Linda, yes you are right. The rate banks charge you for a loan is often tied to the Fed Fund Rate but not directly. Of the ones Fleet used the WSJ prime rate is the most often used as the benchmark for variable rate home loans.
The key here is that banks do not have to change their rates just because their cost changed.
Heh, good job VT. The only economics I’m worried about today is that wheat is already at $12.15 locally. Wish I had about a thousand more bushels.
Wondering how much I could scoop with a shovel in an hour from all the spilled wheat around here
BDP Fleettwood ignores the main point and comes back with–”If I pay 28.7% of my income and you pay 4.8% of your income, why aren’t you happy?”
1. Like Fleettwood makes more than I do. That’s very droll.
The last three cars my wife and I purchased, we bought off the lot new and paid cash for them. And yes, they cost several hundred dollars more than they should have so we could subsidize sky-boxes for the Koch bros. at the new arena.
2. The point was that income taxes for the rich are going down and income taxes for the poor are going up under Bush.
This is shown by your own statistics.
This means if you make less than 200,000 dollars, and I’m willing to bet money that Fleettwood does, he probably has a bigger tax load now than he did before George Worst-President-Ever Bush.
At Commerce Bank, the home equity loan is Prime (6%) MINUS 1/2%. Don’t know how that works.
Just in time NOT to get to see Republicans go into exile for the foreseeable future, William F Buckley is dead.
“he probably has a bigger tax load now than he did before George Worst-President-Ever Bush.”
The answer is cut everybodys taxes. Thank you for agreeing.
Simply, Fleet, the nominal interest rate on said mortgage would be at 5.5%. Commerce appears to be wagering on another cut, which would increase its yield on said mortgage over time. It would also appear to me that only the “best” customers would get the benefit of said rate.
Taking this one step further, it would be instructive to see what Commerce is offering on its CDs; I’d speculate the rate has lowered recently.
One additional bit of trivia..the Federal Reserve bank is not a governmental entity. It is a conduit for the US Mints to get cash to commercial banks. Yes, the head is appointed by the President, but it is not a governmental unit.
Further trivia…every Federal Reserve location has a very large “S” on its property (to symbolize the dollar sign). In Minneapolis, for example, it is a hedge that can only be seen as an “S” from the second floor windows. In Dallas, I believe it is in the concrete sidewalk.
When the Feds issue a rate cut, what is actually being cut?
The interest you receive on your savings. The rate cuts are designed to drive money out of savings and into stocks.
Okay, after reading all this, I think I have a better understanding. Thank all of you for being so helpful.
As Vaughn pointed out, this mainly is to help businesses who want loans to be more productive and offer cheaper products. I think the problem with cutting rates then, is that the things that are skyrocketing in price, will NOT be effected by a rate cut. Will our gas prices go down? How about our food prices? KFG just remarked that wheat is now over $12 a bushel, which is 3 times what she was paid last year. Does anyone know if the rate reduction helps with the prices of food and gas?
That’s a point of view I hadn’t seen Sarah. It makes sense though.
kfg,
When I was a kid, my dad worked for the RailRoad. We used to go to the empty grain hopper cars and shovel out the grain into our 1950 dodge pickup
- and then take it to a local feed store and sell for scrap grain used for feed.
It worked until the Railroad found out people were actually making money on their spillage.
When a rate is cut, the dollar dies just a bit more. Have you seen gold prices today? Go to Kitco.com. When gold goes up, the dollar dies. Is this hard to see? I’m not even an economics man. But by all means, invest in paper stocks!
Thanks Fed!
Dropping the fed rate encourages corporate spending. They do physical improvements, build new facilities, buy new equipment, new vehicles, etc… When money is cheap to borrow it is good for the economy in this way. The rate for individual lenders is also affected favorable because they are in one way or another pegged to this rate.
The danger in this low rate is with those lenders who offer an adjusted rate pegged on this rate. Eventually as it always does when the rate goes up your payment goes up also. Hence the housing repo crisis.
Hillary’s proposal to freeze/cap the interest on credit cards and personal loans will in essence close the door to any with bad credit. That is how a lender protects themselves from an applicant with a history of bailing out on loans.
This lack of understanding of the economics of our country is scary.
KSGRM - So cutting the rate is not going to effect in any way oil, natural gas prices, or food prices, correct?
Sarah the way to stop this is to invest in money market funds with set rates such as CD’s. Also you can invest in mutuals with gold as their standard. This way you don’t pay the high cost of acquiring gold or the expense of protecting it but are rewarded with the increase in value.
TDT you are confusing two economic standards. What KFG is stating about the increase in the price she receives for her wheat in a direct result of ’supply and demand’. As we find more uses for a grain with no corresponding supply the greater demand will raise the price of acquiring the wheat. When farmers increase the amount of wheat raised the price will drop accordingly. No relationship to the fed rate. Unless you figure that that new combine the farmer needs for the increased harvest can be purchased with cheaper rates to finance it.
TDT only in an indirect way such as cheaper financing for the manufacturer to increase the productivity rate for his product. This rate will then be passed to the consumer in a price decrease on the product they buy because the cost and depreciation will be stretched out for several years to reflect the lower rate.
Oil markets are their own animals TDT and independent of U.S. control. It depends on what OPEC and Refinery market speculators feel like charging.
Then there are Enterprise zones which can consist of entire states or even portions of cities. (the reason why gas is different prices in different parts of a city)
Oil is a weird business, it’s like futures in grain products in a way, the price can change while the product a year old is sitting in a tank that was purchased at a cheaper price but still affected by what the oil powers dictates the price should be.
Good luck with that. Greenspan told the Arabs to dump our illustrious dollar. Does that mean anything to you geniuses? THAT is what is scary.
ksgrm - Actually I’m not confusing two economic standards. I’m pointing out that while the feds continue to cut the rate, it is not truly helping the economy from my standpoint because the MAIN necessities such as gas to get to work, gas to heat my home, and food to fill my belly, are rising at a rate that is making it more and more difficult to afford. All this is doing is giving a chance for people who are already rich to take advantage of a recession, while those that are truly struggling will just go further and further down.
Actually, as much as supply and demand, the wheat price is related to the dollar. High dollar value = lower wheat prices. Low dollar value = higher wheat prices.
That’s because so much of the “demand” is export demand. And when the dollar is weak, relative to other currencies, those trolling the export market chose to buy US wheat instead of from Canada, Australia, Argentina, etc.
It’s all compounded because the wheat crop has been failing globally for several years. Our world reserves are VERY low, and that causes shortages, which create higher prices.
And even a worldwide bumper crop wont immediately lower the price of wheat. It’s going to take a couple of years at least of bumper crops to rebuild reserves. And that is where population growth comes in. There is just more food demand world wide.
And… when the government promotes ethanol and other biofuels, there is “acreage competition”. In other words, there is incentive to take a fixed amount of acreage and plant MORE of it to corn as opposed to wheat. When wheat prices go up, there is incentive to plant wheat instead of corn. Competition for the fixed acres.
And all this grain price increase is great, but has anyone looked at the price of inputs lately? They are predicting HUGE increases in fertilizer and herbicide prices, and even shortages because they cant meet the demand for acres planted.
And fuel prices keep going up too. Equipment shortages are appearing in local dealerships. They cant guarantee delivery this year and wont even QUOTE a price for new equipment until it arrives.
I dont see an end to higher food prices any time soon.
Does this mean anything? Sure does, it means we get stuck with the bill for criminal bankers offering sweet deals to anxious folks who can’t afford it. But they’ll get them in a home. Whatever.
TDT, supply and demand only work when there is “elastic” demand for goods and services. When prices rise on items that have “inelastic” demand, and they go up faster than productivity, then you get inflation.
And that is what is happening now. The items you speak of, “such as gas to get to work, gas to heat my home, and food to fill my belly” are generally considered to be “inelastic” demand.
In other words, you need them, and cant really stop buying them or cut back much when the price goes up. For instance, clothing is essentially an “elastic demand” item. If I cant afford it, I dont buy it. I can put it off because I dont really “need” it in the sense that I “need” gas to get to work or fuel to heat my home. The demand for health care is usually inelastic. You need it when you need it, no matter what the price. Same for utilities. And in some sense, food as well.
I mean, you can cut back on food and eat beans and rice instead of steak and fresh veggies, but you need food of SOME sort when you need it.
And because corn and wheat are building blocks for almost all food products, even meat, the demand for grain is more inelastic than elastic.
Add in the demand for grains to produce biofuels, and you get demand pressure on an inelastic commodidty that we have LITTLE or no control, or immediate control, over the production and/or productivity.
The short answer? Yer screwed on the very necessities of life. You cant cut back quickly or in a meaningful way.
Are you all sufficiently bored yet? hehehehehe
TDT, to add a bit to what Regular and ksgrm have posted, the effect of a lowering of the federal funds rate (the rate charged on loans between banks) on oil and other commodities you referenced is likely to increase to cost of oil, using it as an example. Why? (Look out, this will be tedious) The world price of oil, at this point, is pegged to the dollar. Cheaper money causes devaluation of the dollar, and is inflationary in the respect that the OPEC nations, desiring to keep their economic returns at a certain level, will need to increase their price in order to realize the same nominal return on the oil. As was posted yesterday on another thread, former Fed chairman Greenspan was noting the effect on the economies of the Gulf states (inflation) as the result of the action of the Federal Reserve here in lowering the cost of money. I believe this was in the context of removing the dollar as the standard currency for world oil trading.
So, there is an effect, not the one you and I and many others would want, from the lowering of the federal funds rate on oil prices (and by extension, the price of food, given increased production and transportation costs due to the increase in the price of petroleum as another example and not even going into increased fertilizer costs). As Regular and ksgrm have noted, it is an indirect effect, but given the state of the world oil market, such as it is, a very real effect.
The increased price that OPEC members charge, BTW, comes from decisions concerning the level of production in the member countries. As world wide demand for oil increases, one way to increase price is to hold supply (production) steady, which, last I read, is what the current policy is.
Sorry for the tediousness and overly simplistic nature of the above.
TDT, of course the problem of inelasticity of demand that kfg posted while I was working on my tedious post, also contributes for all the reasons she sets out. Bottom line is that in a perverse way, the actions of the Fed in cutting the federal funds rate will add to the increase in price for these goods, not decreasing the rate of increase nor the price thereof anytime soon.
Well dammit, I had a brilliant post going about productivity and OPEC vs the grain mkts being able to shift gears and control productivity…
but word press ate it and I’m not going to do it again!
Short answer again? Yer screwed.
TDT, I don’t know what these other folks do for a living, probably sell loans or broker stocks or something. But we can’t afford anything anymore because the dollar is ceasing to be. It is dying AND NOT BY FRIGGIN ACCIDENT. Au goes up, our purchasing power goes down. And it’s not because gold is actually going up, because gold should be over $2000 an oz. and silver should be at over $100 an oz. This is for real and we are feeling the throes of a big, ugly change in our country and I might add soveriegnty. If you aren’t buying metals, you’ll be sorry. I’m seeing bread lines as is Dr. Paul Craig Roberts (Asst Sec. of Treasury under Reagan as well as editor of The Wall Street Journal) and Joseph Stiglitz (Nobel prize winning economist). But don’t take my word for it, I’m just the local simpleton, “conspiracy” nut.
…and now you know why they call economics the Dismal Science.
hehehehehehheh!
America has no more manufacturing or services, really. All we have is that stinking Federal Reserve Note and Greenspan is talking about killing it as the world reserve note. Our economy is screwed unless we get rid of that Fereal reserve and back up our dollar with real value, not this fiat crap.
Vote Ron Paul or it’s all over. But even then, the stinking Congress are equally as useless to We The People.
TDT the very real problem about fuel prices you talk about isn’t a money supply problem. It in an environmental issue. As a nation we let control of that part of economy be taken over by OPEC. Until we start drilling down to our own sources, and we have plenty of those, oil will continue to go up. If we have our own supply and the demand for foreign oil goes down the price will go down as well for fuel.
We as a county need to make the choice between pristine parts of Alaska and our gulf shores and being held hostage to S. America and the middle east. I think we can do this with a minimal impact on the environment. Others don’t. This is a problem we will have to face in the near future. And then we will need to replace the decades old refineries that we currently have the US economy will become the strongest in the world once again.
I forgot to add IMOHO.
Wouldn’t printing less money increase the value of the dollar? sounds too simple to actually work
Tom P it does sound like a good idea on the face of it but when you look world wide where we used to have a gold standard and many think we still do, the Euro has flourished with no back up standard.
For this reason money supply doesn’t appear to me to matter. JMOHO.
Pleef, it is all over for Ron Paul, didn’t he suspend his campaign and if he had a surge and won the rest of the delegates he wouldn’t have enough delegates to win.
You are right on with the ‘elastic’ and ‘inelastic’ commodities. We as a country have been let down by the lack of forsight by the people in power for many years. China has been snapping up our national resources for decades and in the last 15 years have stepped up that demand. This has resulted in a giant jump in the cost of building, note thiefs stripping copper from public utility poles, and has led now to the grabbing of our food sources. Inflation has to follow.
Seen this on SNL found it funny, hes a better comedian than Candidate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvSXpM5qGmg
And people wonder why Presidents pal around with the King of Saudi Arabia?
If you get your nation’s life blood from the controlling member of OPEC, you better kiss the ring of the King or you won’t be sitting at the dinner table.
It’s a complex, dizzying world of back room economics. I’m sure most of us would be shocked about what actually happens when prices are controlled by the World’s more powerful leaders and private entrepreneurs. Really, there isn’t much we can do it about it either.
No, he never suspended his election. He scaled back his team from the states he lost to keep the money going to the one’s still left. He still has a shot. He’s won anyway as he has put REAl issues into the debates and his “revolution” will carry on long after he’s gone. He’ll still be in Minneapolis. He’s running a congressional campaign as well. He’s still in, but you’d never know it with the corporate media.
I dont think any country is on a gold standard(maybe S Africa), I believe that a prerequisite for joining the WTO is having fiat money
I’m going to say that there is something we can do about it. But we as a Nation have to be willing to sacrifice beyond anything we’ve ever sacrificed. I’m afraid that the apparatus’ are already set up to stop any rising up that WILL happen after the mass populace realizes they have been had. We’re going to see American’s become hungry animals and it’s going to be a scary deal. Maybe you’re right, maybe we can’t “do anything”, but I’d rather die trying.
How does he have a shot? he hasn’t won any primaries or caucuses, It doesn’t look like he ever will, hard to get nominated with only 19 delegates, the only way he has a chance is if Mccain has a heart attack and dies, and if that happened Romney would unsuspend his campaign. The best he can hope for is a chance to give a speech at the convention, the RNC isn’t going to let him be the keynote.
To those who can’t afford healthcare, or those who complain about high energy prices, do you go to Casinos and gamble your spare change away? Do you buy lottery tickets?
If not, you should. Spend every last dime you have HOPING for the jackpot.
Gambling, and Obama, are your only Hope.
You’re probably right, Tom (about Romney). But in any case Paul will be at the convention, so he’ll have fought all the way for us. If We The People don’t want real change, we won’t get it. I’m just happy to be a part of it, even til the end of his run. He’s started something that until our freedom’s are completely gone, will not go away quietly. I’m anxious for his speech and hopefully it will be a “told you so” speech at that.
Isn’t “stagflation” the problem? This is when you have zero growth, or recession, and inflation. Reponding to either of these problems makes the other worse.
Welcome back to 1982.
For the record, I think this is going to be much worse than 1982. I hope the democratic president doesn’t try to do what Reagan did on the subject: “This problem was here when we started our watch.” i.e., blame Carter/Bush.
Evidence hearning begins in Thurber case
This is a top story, you would think they would use spell check for the headline at least!
Steven this brings back to my mind the long gas lines in the seventies. We have it very good so far. This could change any day as we know. Right now we have to make a choice between having pizza delivered tonight or gas to go to work tomorrow.
When supply tightens because there will be those who genuinely can’t afford the price increase, and lessening the supply will help to keep the price high for a while, then the gas lines will come back until the American people say ‘Enough!’. We will then become one saying I don’t care what party you represent we want this problem fixed. Now!
This more than anything else will unite the American people.
Steven one thing everyone is avoiding like the plague is Algore saying we need $5 gasoline so fewer people will drive the co2 emissions will go down.
They are getting their wish and the over the top environmentalists in control are backing them up.
Eventually the American people will get the entire picture and the uprising will be refreshing. With the new evidence about The New Ice Age many will see themselves for the fools they have allowed themselves to be played for so long.
I can hardly wait until I see my faith in the common sense of the American people come back to the forefront.
“This more than anything else will unite the American people.”
I sincerely hope you are right. I can imagine an alternate scenario, however.
But thank goodness we have enough money to have all of these wars! phew! Do we know who the “terrorists” are? How do we know when we’ve beaten these “terrorists”?
We don’t, we’ll just keep having wars without end to bankrupt us into bread lines.
Steven Davis, there is much debate in the financial press over the potential for a period of stagflation. It seems to be a hot topic, and one upon which there is much disagreement. I don’t think there needs to be a recession, as defined, for there to be a stagflation. Rather, there needs to be a condition of either no to very low growth in the economy, combined with inflation and persistent unemployment.
In a period of stafglation, the otherwise positive effects of a recession on an economy are made moot; the inflation is not reduced due to a period of economic slowdown, for example. Traditionally, a recession acts to reduce inflationary pressures, as fewer dollars (in the case of the U.S.) are available to purchase goods, and the economy eventually “wrings out” inflation, and then proceeds forward, as demand increases along with excess capacity being utilized to produce the needed goods and services to meet the demand. The increase in activity will result in additional job creation, etc., all to the good.
One commentator, whose name I have forgotten already, states that periods of stagflation occur when there is too much money chasing too few goods (inflation) combined with an economic slowdown resulting from external factors which inhibits the ability of the economy to respond to the inflationary pressures by increasing production, which also leads to the persistent unemployment problem. His thesis was that the actions of the fed in cutting rates, thereby theoretically increasing the money supply, would likely result in a period of stagflation, as the external factors (costs of oil, e.g.) were not in control of the U.S. economy, and thus there would be little to no attempt to increase production, given the higher costs thereof and the fact that the external factors affecting business are also affecting consumers, who have less disposable income to devote to the purchase of new goods and services.
I don’t know if he’s right; but as recessions are a part and parcel of the normal business cycle, it seems that it may well be counterproductive to make it easier to borrow, etc., if there is little incentive to produce more, which adds to the inflationary pressures on the economy, which overwhelm the natural results of a recession in reducing the same. The question then occurs: absent this being a presidential election year, would Congress and the President even proposed the “stimulus” plan, and, although I would hope the answer to this would be in the negative, would the Fed have been as agressive as it has been in cutting the various funds rates it controls?
Well guys, that was incredibly informative, and also very bleak and depressing. Now that I understand much better, I kind of wish I was still ignorant. Ignorance is bliss.
I am sure happy to read this…I was just starting to lose sleep over worrying about ‘Man Made Global Warming’ and the end of civilization as we know it on Earth. Oh no, I just thought of this, now I might start worrying about what the AGW hysterics are going to have to obsess about.
Blog: Science Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming
“Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile — the list goes on and on.
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn’t itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.
Let’s hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans — and most of the crops and animals we depend on — prefer a temperature closer to 70.
Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.”
Steven I can imagine the alternative scenario but am old enough to remember several times in the past that we have achieved a coming together of the country for a common cause.
I will have to admit they are many more voter on both ends of the political parties. Both radical rights and lefts. This is an unknown that could change the outcome.
I hope not.
Pleefer I have to disagree with you on some level. Ron Paul had some good ideas but his idea to become an isolationist nation wasn’t one of those. As a weak country economically we will be a target for many wanting to take over our fine country. Without a strong military we are an open target.
Just moho.
“We don’t, we’ll just keep having wars without end to bankrupt us into bread lines.”
Well Pleef, we could always ask the old USSR how their little adventure in Afghanistan worked out.
Looks like we’re headed for the same mistakes, and the same outcome.
We could always go the European style of living.
Stacked up on each other like cord wood. Refrigerators the size of an ottoman stool. Land sold by the square foot and priced with a gold standard.
Standards so restrictive you can’t even change your own oil unless you spend $50 dollars for an environmental kit to keep from contaminating the ground (required by law.)
Gas charged per quart (it’s per liter in Europe)
Super strict inspections on vehicles. If you have an oil leak - car doesn’t pass inspection. If you have rust in your running boards, trunk, fender wells, undercarriage or anywhere else, your car doesn’t pass inspection.
Environmental Disposal tax for everything and I mean everything you throw away.
And that’s just the tip of the tax burden iceberg.
An U.S. lawnmower would never pass standards in Europe. Of course, mowing your postage stamp sized yard wouldn’t be much of a chore anyway.
After all this talk of doom and gloom, I now have a picture in my mind of Russia back in the late 70’s, early 80’s, where people were shown waiting in line for essentials like bread and t.p. The government was in charge of everything, and doled out just enough to the peons for them to survive, nothing more. How’s that for conspiracy Pleefer?
KFG - I think we’re kind of thinking along the same lines on this one.
Boxlock you make a good point. A renewed ice age will decrease the crops we now depend on and lessen the supply worldwide. We will then face higher food costs as well as higher fuel cost to heat with.
What a mess we have made for ourselves. Is there an answer? TDT you have depressed me and I think I will just go to lunch will food is still available.
Wow.
Collectively, you all could probably teach a basic macro-economics class. I don’t think I have much to add. KFG, TDT, VT, et. all, well done.
Let’s speak about the gold standard, however.
I understand, Pleefer, the fascination with the gold standard, but I believe it’s an illusion. The value of money is based on only one thing, ultimately: it’s widespread acceptance in trade for goods or services. Backing money with a a commodity of real value, like gold, may make the money more acceptable, but the dollar’s acceptability is not really the problem (when’s the last time someone refused to take dollars, and instead demanded an item of value instead?).
The dollar is the de facto world currency, and despite our problems (and they are serious) will likely be so for the foreseeable future. And you’re right, the IMF bars pegging currency to gold.
So why would we peg our monetary policy to the supply of a metal which has so much other commercial use, and the supply of which we have relatively little control. What is the advantage to doing so? The gold supplies currently kept by the US Govt. wouldn’t even begin to back the dollars currently in circulation; we’d have to go out and get more gold to do so. What do we pay for it with? Dollars backed in the very commodity we’re buying? And buying from who? S. Africa, China are the largest producers.
No, I think a return to the gold standard is an illusion of stability. Having a gold standard has NEVER prevented a government from simply printing money when it thought it needed to.
TDT and KFG that does it. No lunch I have lost my appetite. I am going out in the sunlight and just appreciate it.
What happens to us and our economy when the rest of the world stops believing in our dollar? And move on to the Euro or Asian currency? We crumble and become “less than important” other than we are able to bomb the countries back to our dollar.
Be sure and use sunscreen ksgrm, you don’t want to drive up the cost of health care by getting skin cancer.
Use a recyclable umbrella and make sure the chair you sit in doesn’t damage the surfaces it sits upon or you’ll be responsible for eroding natural surface viabilities.
Oh and before you go back inside, be sure to clean your shoes or remove them, as you don’t want to bring in mold, mildew, soil or nematodes that will contaminate your work place.
But have a nice sunshiney day!
TDT, that’s what I’m picturing…but I’m hedging my bets with real values. I’m protecting my family, you friends, ought to do the same.
Pleefer, I’m just not in a situation to do that. When I get my paycheck, I pay my bills, by groceries, fill up my gas tank, and that’s pretty much all that’s left. Okay, so my addiction is renting movies, but even then, I look for good deals.
Go to the libary its free providing you take them back on time
buy ramen noodles whenever you go to the store. grow a little garden this spring. buy a Berkey water purifier online. the little sport berkey’s are cheap. do it man. rent one movie instead of two. a little bit is worth it. man. this country hasn’t felt the way it’s about to since 1929.
the difference between 1929 and now is that there’s a police state apparatus installed now. so if we get mad that we’re hungry, we’ll just get that anger tortured out of us.
Tell the bonus army they didn’t live in a police state. the difference is now the bonus army would be armed
oops that’s right. but… but..soldiers getting screwed over? naaah.
living in tents ouside of DC, they won’t do it again, I hope. this time it’ll be messy.
Hee hee hee Pleef.
“plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches…”
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=51Ni6_mxAXI
hey girl, Ima haveta watch it at home, they blk youtube here.
First off, how much gold is there in the world? The Gold Institute estimates 118,000 tons (a ton is 1,000 kilograms), while the World Gold Council calls it 145,000 tons. Of course, no one knows for certain, as gold exists in government, bank, and private bullion holdings, jewelry, coins of all types, and, being the private metal that it is, quite a bit of gold is squirreled away out of reach of any official accounting.
For the sake of argument, let’s call it 138,000 tons, a number comfortably within those two official estimates.
A kilogram of gold is 32.15 troy ounces, so at $967.70 an ounce, a kilogram is worth $31,111.55. A ton is 1,000 kilos, which makes each ton worth $31,111,550.00.
Take that figure and multiply by our estimate of total world gold supply at 138,000 tons, and we arrive at $4,293,393,900,000. Round it off to $4.3 trillion dollars. So all the gold in the world is worth 4.3 trillion dollars.
There isn’t enough gold in the world, to cover even half of the US National Debt.
http://www.goldinstitute.net/whygold.html
Sad but true Mr/Mrs. Icognito person.
ksag:
First, I agree with Econ on the Buckley thread. Now, I agree with you about Russert last night.
Am I okay?
We’re the only country in the world where most of the poor folks are fat and we teach kids that a “credit” report is something to achieve.
“Go on son, you too can live beyond your means, it can be paid back later”.
Stop it Mr. C!
Get on your side of the chalk line.
Mr. C, do I need to send you a copy of “I’m OK, You’re OK”?
Oh, and wheat closed at $12.67 here. I’m willing to bet it goes over $13 before the end of the week.
Bread lines? We may WISH for bread lines.
heh kfg,
Thomas Harris’s, “I’m OK - Your OK” used to be required Leadership training in the Air Force back in the day.
kfg, to state the obvious: that’s because no one will be able to afford to provide the bread to us in line….
Problem is, I like to cook, it’s therapeutic. And boiling water for Ramen Noodles just doesn’t cut the mustard. Second, I don’t know anything about growing a garden. Now renting just one movie is all right, but actually what I do now is pay 9.95 per month at Family Video, get my rentals 1/2 price, and considering that their new releases are only $2.59, their nearly new are $1, and then the older ones are 2 for $1, and on Tues., Wed., and Thurs. if you rent a new release you get a free rental on movies that are a $1, it really is pretty inexpensive.
I wish I had learned how to can from my mom and aunt when I had the chance. That would come in handy. Especially if I could figure out how to grow a garden. I even have a perfect space for it.
I am Okay; you are okay
I am okay; you are not okay
I am not okay; you are okay
I am not okay; you are not okay
Gunfight at the Okay Corral?
TDT,
Netflix !!!!
hey kfg, can you recall what wheat was in 2003? I know gold was $350. today it’s right now at $958. yay!
Now that I’m sufficiently alarmed and depressed, I think I need to do some research on how to grow a garden.
gardens are easy, if you don’t try too hard at growing corn. you’ll end up crying. beans, taters, tomaters, carrots…all grow fairly easily. even w/o a green thumb. I know, I succeeded last year.
A book on parent, teacher, child relationships.
An answer for all social communications.
don’t be depressed, be prepared friend. let the other folks laugh at you like Noah.
So Pleefer, do the veggies you are referring to need lots of sun, or very little sun. My back yard is shady, since my neighbor behind me has a large tree, but my front yard on the east gets very good sunlight.
Pleef, IIRC, it was LESS THAN four dollars for most of 2003.
“Strategic Priorities of the Department of the Treasury
A top priority of the Department is the fundamental reform of entitlement programs. Without this reform, annual outlays by the federal government for Social Security and Medicare are projected to more than double by 2080, representing a grave threat to the American economy. In partnership with Congress, the Department of the Treasury will bring its economic and fiscal expertise to design and implement needed entitlement program reform.
The Department will actively strive to maintain America’s strength and prosperity by developing and implementing policies that encourage overall economic growth. The Treasury Department will collaborate with Congress to establish pro-growth tax programs, and ensure that U.S. regulations provide necessary protections without harming our international competitive position and the competitiveness of U.S. capital markets.”
http://www.treas.gov/offices/management/budget/strategic-plan/2007-2012/07_12.html
“needed entitlement program reform”
Do the strategic priorities of any candidate for President support tihs?
TDT, if you like to cook you should be better off than most. WHOLE foods, processed in your kitchen, are much cheaper than the already processed and packaged kind.
Now, if you just eat things when they are in season, you save money and get better quality. Canning and freezing things in seasons helps too.
Buy local. Find some friendly farmers. Save the cost and environmental problems of shipping and eating foods out of season.
Whole grains are your friend. Meat is a treat.
And drink plenty of TAP water!
hehehehehe. ALL I ever needed to know I learned in Home Ec, not kindergarten.
hee hee hee heeeeeeee…..
TDT, go buy a used copy of “Square Foot Gardening”.
Oh and TDT? One can never be sufficiently alarmed and depressed
At least not until after January 20, 2009
kfg will teach you gardening TDT, that is in exchange for some farm labor.
heeeeeeee!
I’d rather just sell ya the produce!
Thanks for the tip KFG, I will go and get that book. It’s near time to start on this little project anyway. And I always drink tap water. I just never got into the bottled water craze.
I’ve always had half a day of direct sun. but kfg is right go get that book. amazon prolly has a used one if not book-a-holic. getting in good with the good farmers is a good thing. I think i’m gonna do it real easy this year and just do a “salad garden” which is just plotting our a 15X15 area and throwing all kinds of seeds in it. hopefully it’ll go off right. *fingers crossing