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265 Comments
I can hardly wait for the fight to start. But just so’s you know, “winning” a blog fight is like winning gold in the Special Olympics, you’re still retarded.
Special Olympics – retared…
We are now going to make fun of people with disabilities? New low or more of the same?
retared = retarded
See what I mean Hud?
I prefer to see these blogs as the Towers of Babel. No understanding, nothing constructive, and then the fights break out.
Wars and rumors of wars…
And you’re going to act like you’ve never heard that before? THE OUTRAGE!!!! Go on, act like you’ve never joked about that stuff? You superior person you? I bow to you, almighty giant of morality.
The retarded Republicans are eating their own:
“McCain threw me under the straight talk bus!”
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/02/27/roberts.cunningham.intv.cnn
I must be a glutton for punishment. I get on here, knowing the usual dummies are going to get here and fight about trivial, useless bs. Always, everyday. And yet the pleasure that comes with the pain is…There are still some good people on here from “both sides” that make it seem worth staying on here.
http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm
“A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C — a value large enough to wipe out nearly all the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year’s time. For all four sources, it’s the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn’t itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.”
——————–
I wanted to post this link again today to see if we could get some some assurance that these numbers aren’t correct and that global cooling isn’t something to be concerned about. Which concerns me a lot more than global warming. OR could it be that we really can’t predict the climate trends? Because this cooling wasn’t supposed to be happening.
“I can hardly wait for the fight to start. But just so’s you know, ‘winning’ a blog fight is like winning gold in the Special Olympics, you’re still retarded.”
I am offended. I work with people with developmental disabilities. The Special Olympics are real athletic competitions where the participants have to push themselves as hard as anyone else, and winners earn it like anyone else who wins a competition. No one is just is just the sum of their disabilities or abilities. They’re people, pure and simple.
Blogging, on the other hand, particularly in an unmoderated board like this one, is very different. People go in, post their opinion, and because the keep their opinions they go away as winners in their own minds. They also come and and go out convinced that “their side” is right and also the persecuted one. Then they come back to the blog beating their chests about how they’ve won and how they’ve beaten the libs/cons who have had to resort to personal attacks to cope with them (while being blind to the flame bombs they themselves are throwing).
The point of your comments about blogging might be well taken, Pfeefer, but the comparision with Special Olympics is misleading and unfair.
Loser of last night’s debate in my opinion:
Tim Russert.
Outlander, there is a difference between climate change and weather and even climate fluctuations. There is nothing about global warming theory that is contradicted by occasional fluctuations that result in the occasional colder winter or cooler summer. If the cooling this year were to continue for several more years, there would be something, and climate scientists would definitely be taking a look at what is going on.
Here’s more on “the cooling”.
Note, this is still a popular science source.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080114085128.htm
Kansas
Posted February 27, 2008 at 7:12 am | Permalink
The retarded Republicans are eating their own:
“McCain threw me under the straight talk bus!”
—————————–
Appears to me to be exactly the opposite reading yesterday’s open thread. :D
Another article.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080128113104.htm
Just to be clear, and I do not claim to be an expert. Global climate change is measured as long term phenomena, and fluctuations caused by EL NINO or La Nina would have to be factored in.
But looking around and saying, “boy, it’s cold this winter, those global warming people must be all wet” is way too simplistic.
It’s just that the computer climate models are way too simplistic currently and its through those CCM’s that the GW Alarmists are making their inaccurate predictions. The logical follow would be…
(chortles)
Note to Wichita Eagle Editorial Department:
To see a properly constructed, monitored, controlled and artful blog visit the URL below:
http://republikan.typepad.com/republikansan/
:D
“Loser of last night’s debate in my opinion:
“Tim Russert.”
Good one! ksagnostic.
I am not able to tell why the Obama/patriotism thread was shut down. Anybody know why?
I haven’t looked at the thread since yesterday mid afternoon, but at that time it was becoming another “I’m right and that makes you wrong” with the topic being who is / isn’t a racist. Going pretty much no where, just that no one seemed able to NOT respond so they posted new words attempting to make their position even more clear…
It may have been, Steven, that the thread just got too long.
Someone, (maybe KFG?) was saying the other day that the Obama threads are the ones getting shut down.
If true, it does make you wonder what that means.
Capn, Haven’t many of the threads on guns or abortion gone well over 4 or 500?
No doubt it was the Prine and Goodman references Steven Davis. :D
On Tuesday, it’ll be over, thank Goodness.
I was pissed off when uber-rich Kerry wrote himself a loan because he couldn’t get a donation — hell, he couldn’t get arrested — before Iowa.
And then the good burghers of that most boring state of the Union went for plain toast without butter a catapulted Kerry into front-runner status.
Obviously, in retrospect, we would have been much better off with a real fighter like Howard Dean.
Anyway, do I think the Kerry-backers were a bunch of idiots who sold out their principles for a guy who “looked more presidential.”
Why, yes . . . yes, I do.
But it’s over.
Very over.
Of course, the Obama threads are going to attract the hate-mongers–the KKK and neo-Nazis etc.
And since The Eagle chooses to exercise absolutely no control of oversight over its WEBlog, they may have little alternative to simply shutting it down.
Horst Wessel is awaiting his next opportunity Capn. :D
Yes, Linda, wasn’t the thread on the local preacher who tied himself to Wild West World (can’t for the life of me remember his name – repression is a helpful defense, sometimes) still the all time post record holder? J R will know when he comes around.
Before my time, was this Terry Fox?
I think shutting down threads is an improvement over doing nothing and letting the “discourse” get really ugly.
Yes. It was about Terry Fox.
I agree, Steven. It sends a message without judging a particular offender (’cause there are always two sides to every story!). Just a reminder. And it seems to have worked for two days in a row.
Steven, you mean Terry Fox, I presume??
Since BDP Fleettwood had no response to this yesterday, here it is again for your reading pleasure.
BDP Fleettwood is so damn dumb that he doesn’t realize that his statistics actually prove exactly what WE’RE saying:
“In 1993, the top 1% were paying 28.7% of all taxes. The bottom 50%? Earning only 15% of the income but paying just 4.8% of the income taxes.”
NOW “we find the top 1% of all income earners in the United States paying a total of 20.3% of all of the personal income taxes collected by the IRS. The bottom 50% of all income earners were payign only 7.2% of all income taxes.”
So 15 years ago, the top 1 percent paid 8.7 percent MORE than they do now and the bottom 50 percent paid 2.4 percent LESS than they do now.
Exactly our point–the rich pay LESS and the poor pay MORE under Bush than ever before.
BTW, Fleettwood, if you weren’t the BDP, you’d see that this hurts people like you too.
Agnostic, I should have chosen another analogy, so I apologize. My Grandma taught school 45 years and the last 15 of that she taught special education, so I do know better and meant nothing by it. Although it was a bad choice and does come off very wrong on a computer with no emphasis on intent, I truly didn’t mean any degradation to the special ones. hell, I even think I insulted them comparing that Special Olympics to certain bloggers here.
Hehehe, good one, Pleef, good one!
But on the other hand, a friend of mine worked at Starkey for years and years and loved his clients to death. Yet he called himself a “tard guard”, go figure…
heheh
Pleef, anyone who calls themselves a tard guard obviously has clue about how offensive that remark is. There used to be a spec ed teacher who ran a tard blog site, she said she meant it lovingly. NOT.
Working in EMS, I do understand how some things you’ve just gotta laugh at that are bad, but this isn’t one of them.
I find it offensive, not because I have a disabled child, but because it is degrading to use such a slur. I don’t think ‘nigga’ is endearing either.
I felt that way before I became a mom.
““In 1993, the top 1% were paying 28.7% of all taxes. The bottom 50%? Earning only 15% of the income but paying just 4.8% of the income taxes.””
If I pay 28.7% of my income and you pay 4.8% of your income, why aren’t you happy?
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn’t itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.”
Just visited Acapulco, which had the lowest recorded temperature ever while I was there — 15C.
Flew over Mex City. If you don’t think the puny efforts of man have an affect on what’s happening below, you should see it. The haze extends for hundreds of miles.
Duh
Do as I say, not as I do . . . I’m shocked, I tell ya! SHOCKED!!
—–
“Dem hopefuls won tax breaks for contributors”
“Both Democratic presidential candidates, who promise to curb the influence of corporate lobbyists in Washington, helped enact narrowly tailored tax breaks sought by major campaign contributors.
Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential campaign has accepted $54,350 from members of a law firm that in 2006 lobbied him to introduce a tax provision for a Japanese drug company with operations in Illinois, according to public records and interviews. The government estimates the provision, which became law in December 2006, will cost the treasury $800,000.
In 2002, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton introduced legislation at the request of Rienzi & Sons, a Queens, N.Y., food importer, according to company president Michael Rienzi. The provision, which became law in December 2004, required the government to refund tens of thousands of dollars in duty charged on imported tomato products, Rienzi told USA TODAY.”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-02-25-tax-breaks_N.htm?POE=click-refer
—–
Some things never change, do they?
____________
RE: the last parting shot from yesterday:
Capn: I took no position on, nor did (or do) I care, whether Regular-Republican is or isn’t JM. Your panties are in a bundle on that one, not mine. My only point was that you spent so much time and effort on WHO he was (as if that mattered) that you routinely ignored WHAT he said. And in doing so, he was leading you around by the nose.
Chas’ worshipping at the feet of race extortionist Jackson (as well as apparantly being a pseudo-Forrest Gump – was there anyone he didn’t know? Ah – Chas’ Brushes with Greatness!!) was the point there; why your pathetic self came in on this side non-issue is beyond me. Just trying to raise yourself to my standards, I suppose. Nice try! ;)
LOL GM,
The Forrest Gump analogy popped into my mind as well. :D
Looks like the utilities have an absolute death grip on the kansas legislature this year. Wonder why the WE didnt print this?
They killed the net metering bill that would have allowed folks who produce power to turn their meters backwards.
So much for alternative energy promotion. I guess alternative energy is GOOD if it is produced by big power companies, but BAD if produced by consumers.
FORTY FOUR states have such a provision, so this has NOTHING to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with corporate death grips on your utility bills. Anyone think this is a victim of the holcomb bullying?
Kansas… as dumb as you think…
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/story/HNS-Local-wind-2-26-08
…and it looks like the Ark River isnt the ONLY one that folks would like access and clean spaces for recreation.
Good for these Friends of the River Folks who want to give the poor, besieged Smoky Hill River a facelift too.
http://www.saljournal.com/rdnews/Story/sdi-annual-meeting-2-26-08
“pave paradise, put up a parking lot”
Fed chief signals another rate cut
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080227/ap_on_bi_ge/bernanke_congress
Okay, I have a couple of questions so that I can understand this better. When the Feds issue a rate cut, what is actually being cut? What interest rates does it affect? I’m curious because I’m not sure of the answer, and it seems to me, if they are cutting interest rates that effect new home mortgages or even refinancing, how is that going to help? The people that are truly hurting won’t have the credit to take advantage of the rate cuts. So someone out there who understands the economy better than me, would you mind taking the time to give me explanations to my questions.
TDT, others can explain it better but the rate cut is to Fed Funds. The rate banks are charged to buy money. This rate is not directly tied to what Joe Blow consumer will be charged for a loan.
And when the bank can buy their money at a lower rate it’s supposed to “free up” more money for them to lend. But, in today’s economy they’re taking a much closer look at their borrowers so only those who could borrow before the money was “freed up” are given loans.
HUD – So it only helps corporations? Banks?
“This rate is not directly tied to what Joe Blow consumer will be charged for a loan.”
Unless the loan is “Prime plus or minus a percentage.
Hehehehe. Looks like we are not the only ones listening to John Prine.
Take a look at these pictures and TELL me coal power is a good thing. Only one picture of water extraction though.
But in the comments? One of the first ones quotes John Prine.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×2928020
Linda – That was what I was thinking, so I don’t imagine how it is going to help. I’m hoping someone can get on here and explain to me how this is supposed to help the economy. I just don’t see it.
Unless the loan is “Prime plus or minus a percentage.
What does that mean Fleettwood?
The prime rate, as reported by the Wall Street Journal’s bank survey, is among the most widely used benchmark in setting home equity lines of credit and credit card rates. It is in turn based on the fed funds rate, which is set by the Federal Reserve. The COFI (11th District cost of funds index) is a widely used benchmark for adjustable-rate mortgages.
Prime rate, fed funds, COFI Updated 2/20/2008
This week Month ago Year ago
WSJ Prime Rate 6.00 6.50 8.25
Federal Discount Rate 3.50 4.00 6.25
Fed Funds Rate 3.00 3.50 5.25
11th District Cost of Funds 4.072 4.172 4.396
I wish kfg would jump in here, or if Vaughn was around (and kept his remarks to English vs. his native language of legal) it would be explained well to all of us!
I “think” sometimes the fed rate does have an affect on the prime rate. And our loans and interest rates are set according to what the prime rate is and adjusted for our credit worthiness. The better your credit the closer to prime you will be charged. I “think.” kfg? Vaughn?
TDT, I’ll try to give a simplistic explanation or two in response to your questions.
First, while you addressed your question to Fleet, “prime plus or minus a percentage” refers to the interest rate being paid by the borrower. If the loan carries an interest rate of, e.g., Prime + one percent, then the borrower pays, in interest, the prime rate of interest being charged by the bank plus one percent. The cut in the federal funds rate would affect the prime rate charged by the bank, reducing it in this case, so the borrower would pay less interest than would have been paid, making the loan more “affordable”. The prime rate, of course, refers to the rate that is charged to the most “creditworthy” customers.
Helping the economy works a bit like this; if the federal funds rate is lowered, the rate that the bank will charge for its loan may be lowered, while keeping the “yield” positive (”yield” is the delta between the cost of money to the bank and the interest rate at which it is loaned). This allows businesses, e.g., to borrow at a lower cost, which will improve the profit margins for the businesses, assuming the loaned funds are used in a manner which increases business productivity, for example, which also might allow the business to sell its good or service at a lower cost while still remaining profitable.
Much more to this, hopefully this will help.
Well, look at that! And in clear concise English too! Thanks, Vaughn.
Linda, yes you are right. The rate banks charge you for a loan is often tied to the Fed Fund Rate but not directly. Of the ones Fleet used the WSJ prime rate is the most often used as the benchmark for variable rate home loans.
The key here is that banks do not have to change their rates just because their cost changed.
Heh, good job VT. The only economics I’m worried about today is that wheat is already at $12.15 locally. Wish I had about a thousand more bushels.
Wondering how much I could scoop with a shovel in an hour from all the spilled wheat around here :)
BDP Fleettwood ignores the main point and comes back with–”If I pay 28.7% of my income and you pay 4.8% of your income, why aren’t you happy?”
1. Like Fleettwood makes more than I do. That’s very droll.
The last three cars my wife and I purchased, we bought off the lot new and paid cash for them. And yes, they cost several hundred dollars more than they should have so we could subsidize sky-boxes for the Koch bros. at the new arena.
2. The point was that income taxes for the rich are going down and income taxes for the poor are going up under Bush.
This is shown by your own statistics.
This means if you make less than 200,000 dollars, and I’m willing to bet money that Fleettwood does, he probably has a bigger tax load now than he did before George Worst-President-Ever Bush.
At Commerce Bank, the home equity loan is Prime (6%) MINUS 1/2%. Don’t know how that works.
Just in time NOT to get to see Republicans go into exile for the foreseeable future, William F Buckley is dead.
“he probably has a bigger tax load now than he did before George Worst-President-Ever Bush.”
The answer is cut everybodys taxes. Thank you for agreeing.
Simply, Fleet, the nominal interest rate on said mortgage would be at 5.5%. Commerce appears to be wagering on another cut, which would increase its yield on said mortgage over time. It would also appear to me that only the “best” customers would get the benefit of said rate.
Taking this one step further, it would be instructive to see what Commerce is offering on its CDs; I’d speculate the rate has lowered recently.
One additional bit of trivia..the Federal Reserve bank is not a governmental entity. It is a conduit for the US Mints to get cash to commercial banks. Yes, the head is appointed by the President, but it is not a governmental unit.
Further trivia…every Federal Reserve location has a very large “S” on its property (to symbolize the dollar sign). In Minneapolis, for example, it is a hedge that can only be seen as an “S” from the second floor windows. In Dallas, I believe it is in the concrete sidewalk.
When the Feds issue a rate cut, what is actually being cut?
The interest you receive on your savings. The rate cuts are designed to drive money out of savings and into stocks.
Okay, after reading all this, I think I have a better understanding. Thank all of you for being so helpful.
As Vaughn pointed out, this mainly is to help businesses who want loans to be more productive and offer cheaper products. I think the problem with cutting rates then, is that the things that are skyrocketing in price, will NOT be effected by a rate cut. Will our gas prices go down? How about our food prices? KFG just remarked that wheat is now over $12 a bushel, which is 3 times what she was paid last year. Does anyone know if the rate reduction helps with the prices of food and gas?
That’s a point of view I hadn’t seen Sarah. It makes sense though.
kfg,
When I was a kid, my dad worked for the RailRoad. We used to go to the empty grain hopper cars and shovel out the grain into our 1950 dodge pickup :D
- and then take it to a local feed store and sell for scrap grain used for feed.
It worked until the Railroad found out people were actually making money on their spillage. :D
When a rate is cut, the dollar dies just a bit more. Have you seen gold prices today? Go to Kitco.com. When gold goes up, the dollar dies. Is this hard to see? I’m not even an economics man. But by all means, invest in paper stocks!
Thanks Fed!
Dropping the fed rate encourages corporate spending. They do physical improvements, build new facilities, buy new equipment, new vehicles, etc… When money is cheap to borrow it is good for the economy in this way. The rate for individual lenders is also affected favorable because they are in one way or another pegged to this rate.
The danger in this low rate is with those lenders who offer an adjusted rate pegged on this rate. Eventually as it always does when the rate goes up your payment goes up also. Hence the housing repo crisis.
Hillary’s proposal to freeze/cap the interest on credit cards and personal loans will in essence close the door to any with bad credit. That is how a lender protects themselves from an applicant with a history of bailing out on loans.
This lack of understanding of the economics of our country is scary.
KSGRM – So cutting the rate is not going to effect in any way oil, natural gas prices, or food prices, correct?
Sarah the way to stop this is to invest in money market funds with set rates such as CD’s. Also you can invest in mutuals with gold as their standard. This way you don’t pay the high cost of acquiring gold or the expense of protecting it but are rewarded with the increase in value.
TDT you are confusing two economic standards. What KFG is stating about the increase in the price she receives for her wheat in a direct result of ’supply and demand’. As we find more uses for a grain with no corresponding supply the greater demand will raise the price of acquiring the wheat. When farmers increase the amount of wheat raised the price will drop accordingly. No relationship to the fed rate. Unless you figure that that new combine the farmer needs for the increased harvest can be purchased with cheaper rates to finance it.
TDT only in an indirect way such as cheaper financing for the manufacturer to increase the productivity rate for his product. This rate will then be passed to the consumer in a price decrease on the product they buy because the cost and depreciation will be stretched out for several years to reflect the lower rate.
Oil markets are their own animals TDT and independent of U.S. control. It depends on what OPEC and Refinery market speculators feel like charging.
Then there are Enterprise zones which can consist of entire states or even portions of cities. (the reason why gas is different prices in different parts of a city)
Oil is a weird business, it’s like futures in grain products in a way, the price can change while the product a year old is sitting in a tank that was purchased at a cheaper price but still affected by what the oil powers dictates the price should be.
Good luck with that. Greenspan told the Arabs to dump our illustrious dollar. Does that mean anything to you geniuses? THAT is what is scary.
ksgrm – Actually I’m not confusing two economic standards. I’m pointing out that while the feds continue to cut the rate, it is not truly helping the economy from my standpoint because the MAIN necessities such as gas to get to work, gas to heat my home, and food to fill my belly, are rising at a rate that is making it more and more difficult to afford. All this is doing is giving a chance for people who are already rich to take advantage of a recession, while those that are truly struggling will just go further and further down.
Actually, as much as supply and demand, the wheat price is related to the dollar. High dollar value = lower wheat prices. Low dollar value = higher wheat prices.
That’s because so much of the “demand” is export demand. And when the dollar is weak, relative to other currencies, those trolling the export market chose to buy US wheat instead of from Canada, Australia, Argentina, etc.
It’s all compounded because the wheat crop has been failing globally for several years. Our world reserves are VERY low, and that causes shortages, which create higher prices.
And even a worldwide bumper crop wont immediately lower the price of wheat. It’s going to take a couple of years at least of bumper crops to rebuild reserves. And that is where population growth comes in. There is just more food demand world wide.
And… when the government promotes ethanol and other biofuels, there is “acreage competition”. In other words, there is incentive to take a fixed amount of acreage and plant MORE of it to corn as opposed to wheat. When wheat prices go up, there is incentive to plant wheat instead of corn. Competition for the fixed acres.
And all this grain price increase is great, but has anyone looked at the price of inputs lately? They are predicting HUGE increases in fertilizer and herbicide prices, and even shortages because they cant meet the demand for acres planted.
And fuel prices keep going up too. Equipment shortages are appearing in local dealerships. They cant guarantee delivery this year and wont even QUOTE a price for new equipment until it arrives.
I dont see an end to higher food prices any time soon.
Does this mean anything? Sure does, it means we get stuck with the bill for criminal bankers offering sweet deals to anxious folks who can’t afford it. But they’ll get them in a home. Whatever.
TDT, supply and demand only work when there is “elastic” demand for goods and services. When prices rise on items that have “inelastic” demand, and they go up faster than productivity, then you get inflation.
And that is what is happening now. The items you speak of, “such as gas to get to work, gas to heat my home, and food to fill my belly” are generally considered to be “inelastic” demand.
In other words, you need them, and cant really stop buying them or cut back much when the price goes up. For instance, clothing is essentially an “elastic demand” item. If I cant afford it, I dont buy it. I can put it off because I dont really “need” it in the sense that I “need” gas to get to work or fuel to heat my home. The demand for health care is usually inelastic. You need it when you need it, no matter what the price. Same for utilities. And in some sense, food as well.
I mean, you can cut back on food and eat beans and rice instead of steak and fresh veggies, but you need food of SOME sort when you need it.
And because corn and wheat are building blocks for almost all food products, even meat, the demand for grain is more inelastic than elastic.
Add in the demand for grains to produce biofuels, and you get demand pressure on an inelastic commodidty that we have LITTLE or no control, or immediate control, over the production and/or productivity.
The short answer? Yer screwed on the very necessities of life. You cant cut back quickly or in a meaningful way.
Are you all sufficiently bored yet? hehehehehe :)
TDT, to add a bit to what Regular and ksgrm have posted, the effect of a lowering of the federal funds rate (the rate charged on loans between banks) on oil and other commodities you referenced is likely to increase to cost of oil, using it as an example. Why? (Look out, this will be tedious) The world price of oil, at this point, is pegged to the dollar. Cheaper money causes devaluation of the dollar, and is inflationary in the respect that the OPEC nations, desiring to keep their economic returns at a certain level, will need to increase their price in order to realize the same nominal return on the oil. As was posted yesterday on another thread, former Fed chairman Greenspan was noting the effect on the economies of the Gulf states (inflation) as the result of the action of the Federal Reserve here in lowering the cost of money. I believe this was in the context of removing the dollar as the standard currency for world oil trading.
So, there is an effect, not the one you and I and many others would want, from the lowering of the federal funds rate on oil prices (and by extension, the price of food, given increased production and transportation costs due to the increase in the price of petroleum as another example and not even going into increased fertilizer costs). As Regular and ksgrm have noted, it is an indirect effect, but given the state of the world oil market, such as it is, a very real effect.
The increased price that OPEC members charge, BTW, comes from decisions concerning the level of production in the member countries. As world wide demand for oil increases, one way to increase price is to hold supply (production) steady, which, last I read, is what the current policy is.
Sorry for the tediousness and overly simplistic nature of the above.
TDT, of course the problem of inelasticity of demand that kfg posted while I was working on my tedious post, also contributes for all the reasons she sets out. Bottom line is that in a perverse way, the actions of the Fed in cutting the federal funds rate will add to the increase in price for these goods, not decreasing the rate of increase nor the price thereof anytime soon.
Well dammit, I had a brilliant post going about productivity and OPEC vs the grain mkts being able to shift gears and control productivity…
but word press ate it and I’m not going to do it again!
Short answer again? Yer screwed.
TDT, I don’t know what these other folks do for a living, probably sell loans or broker stocks or something. But we can’t afford anything anymore because the dollar is ceasing to be. It is dying AND NOT BY FRIGGIN ACCIDENT. Au goes up, our purchasing power goes down. And it’s not because gold is actually going up, because gold should be over $2000 an oz. and silver should be at over $100 an oz. This is for real and we are feeling the throes of a big, ugly change in our country and I might add soveriegnty. If you aren’t buying metals, you’ll be sorry. I’m seeing bread lines as is Dr. Paul Craig Roberts (Asst Sec. of Treasury under Reagan as well as editor of The Wall Street Journal) and Joseph Stiglitz (Nobel prize winning economist). But don’t take my word for it, I’m just the local simpleton, “conspiracy” nut.
…and now you know why they call economics the Dismal Science.
hehehehehehheh!
America has no more manufacturing or services, really. All we have is that stinking Federal Reserve Note and Greenspan is talking about killing it as the world reserve note. Our economy is screwed unless we get rid of that Fereal reserve and back up our dollar with real value, not this fiat crap.
Vote Ron Paul or it’s all over. But even then, the stinking Congress are equally as useless to We The People.
TDT the very real problem about fuel prices you talk about isn’t a money supply problem. It in an environmental issue. As a nation we let control of that part of economy be taken over by OPEC. Until we start drilling down to our own sources, and we have plenty of those, oil will continue to go up. If we have our own supply and the demand for foreign oil goes down the price will go down as well for fuel.
We as a county need to make the choice between pristine parts of Alaska and our gulf shores and being held hostage to S. America and the middle east. I think we can do this with a minimal impact on the environment. Others don’t. This is a problem we will have to face in the near future. And then we will need to replace the decades old refineries that we currently have the US economy will become the strongest in the world once again.
I forgot to add IMOHO.
Wouldn’t printing less money increase the value of the dollar? sounds too simple to actually work
Tom P it does sound like a good idea on the face of it but when you look world wide where we used to have a gold standard and many think we still do, the Euro has flourished with no back up standard.
For this reason money supply doesn’t appear to me to matter. JMOHO.
Pleef, it is all over for Ron Paul, didn’t he suspend his campaign and if he had a surge and won the rest of the delegates he wouldn’t have enough delegates to win.
You are right on with the ‘elastic’ and ‘inelastic’ commodities. We as a country have been let down by the lack of forsight by the people in power for many years. China has been snapping up our national resources for decades and in the last 15 years have stepped up that demand. This has resulted in a giant jump in the cost of building, note thiefs stripping copper from public utility poles, and has led now to the grabbing of our food sources. Inflation has to follow.
Seen this on SNL found it funny, hes a better comedian than Candidate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvSXpM5qGmg
And people wonder why Presidents pal around with the King of Saudi Arabia?
If you get your nation’s life blood from the controlling member of OPEC, you better kiss the ring of the King or you won’t be sitting at the dinner table.
It’s a complex, dizzying world of back room economics. I’m sure most of us would be shocked about what actually happens when prices are controlled by the World’s more powerful leaders and private entrepreneurs. Really, there isn’t much we can do it about it either.
No, he never suspended his election. He scaled back his team from the states he lost to keep the money going to the one’s still left. He still has a shot. He’s won anyway as he has put REAl issues into the debates and his “revolution” will carry on long after he’s gone. He’ll still be in Minneapolis. He’s running a congressional campaign as well. He’s still in, but you’d never know it with the corporate media.
I dont think any country is on a gold standard(maybe S Africa), I believe that a prerequisite for joining the WTO is having fiat money
I’m going to say that there is something we can do about it. But we as a Nation have to be willing to sacrifice beyond anything we’ve ever sacrificed. I’m afraid that the apparatus’ are already set up to stop any rising up that WILL happen after the mass populace realizes they have been had. We’re going to see American’s become hungry animals and it’s going to be a scary deal. Maybe you’re right, maybe we can’t “do anything”, but I’d rather die trying.
How does he have a shot? he hasn’t won any primaries or caucuses, It doesn’t look like he ever will, hard to get nominated with only 19 delegates, the only way he has a chance is if Mccain has a heart attack and dies, and if that happened Romney would unsuspend his campaign. The best he can hope for is a chance to give a speech at the convention, the RNC isn’t going to let him be the keynote.
To those who can’t afford healthcare, or those who complain about high energy prices, do you go to Casinos and gamble your spare change away? Do you buy lottery tickets?
If not, you should. Spend every last dime you have HOPING for the jackpot.
Gambling, and Obama, are your only Hope.
You’re probably right, Tom (about Romney). But in any case Paul will be at the convention, so he’ll have fought all the way for us. If We The People don’t want real change, we won’t get it. I’m just happy to be a part of it, even til the end of his run. He’s started something that until our freedom’s are completely gone, will not go away quietly. I’m anxious for his speech and hopefully it will be a “told you so” speech at that.
Isn’t “stagflation” the problem? This is when you have zero growth, or recession, and inflation. Reponding to either of these problems makes the other worse.
Welcome back to 1982.
For the record, I think this is going to be much worse than 1982. I hope the democratic president doesn’t try to do what Reagan did on the subject: “This problem was here when we started our watch.” i.e., blame Carter/Bush.
Evidence hearning begins in Thurber case
This is a top story, you would think they would use spell check for the headline at least!
Steven this brings back to my mind the long gas lines in the seventies. We have it very good so far. This could change any day as we know. Right now we have to make a choice between having pizza delivered tonight or gas to go to work tomorrow.
When supply tightens because there will be those who genuinely can’t afford the price increase, and lessening the supply will help to keep the price high for a while, then the gas lines will come back until the American people say ‘Enough!’. We will then become one saying I don’t care what party you represent we want this problem fixed. Now!
This more than anything else will unite the American people.
Steven one thing everyone is avoiding like the plague is Algore saying we need $5 gasoline so fewer people will drive the co2 emissions will go down.
They are getting their wish and the over the top environmentalists in control are backing them up.
Eventually the American people will get the entire picture and the uprising will be refreshing. With the new evidence about The New Ice Age many will see themselves for the fools they have allowed themselves to be played for so long.
I can hardly wait until I see my faith in the common sense of the American people come back to the forefront.
“This more than anything else will unite the American people.”
I sincerely hope you are right. I can imagine an alternate scenario, however.
But thank goodness we have enough money to have all of these wars! phew! Do we know who the “terrorists” are? How do we know when we’ve beaten these “terrorists”?
We don’t, we’ll just keep having wars without end to bankrupt us into bread lines.
Steven Davis, there is much debate in the financial press over the potential for a period of stagflation. It seems to be a hot topic, and one upon which there is much disagreement. I don’t think there needs to be a recession, as defined, for there to be a stagflation. Rather, there needs to be a condition of either no to very low growth in the economy, combined with inflation and persistent unemployment.
In a period of stafglation, the otherwise positive effects of a recession on an economy are made moot; the inflation is not reduced due to a period of economic slowdown, for example. Traditionally, a recession acts to reduce inflationary pressures, as fewer dollars (in the case of the U.S.) are available to purchase goods, and the economy eventually “wrings out” inflation, and then proceeds forward, as demand increases along with excess capacity being utilized to produce the needed goods and services to meet the demand. The increase in activity will result in additional job creation, etc., all to the good.
One commentator, whose name I have forgotten already, states that periods of stagflation occur when there is too much money chasing too few goods (inflation) combined with an economic slowdown resulting from external factors which inhibits the ability of the economy to respond to the inflationary pressures by increasing production, which also leads to the persistent unemployment problem. His thesis was that the actions of the fed in cutting rates, thereby theoretically increasing the money supply, would likely result in a period of stagflation, as the external factors (costs of oil, e.g.) were not in control of the U.S. economy, and thus there would be little to no attempt to increase production, given the higher costs thereof and the fact that the external factors affecting business are also affecting consumers, who have less disposable income to devote to the purchase of new goods and services.
I don’t know if he’s right; but as recessions are a part and parcel of the normal business cycle, it seems that it may well be counterproductive to make it easier to borrow, etc., if there is little incentive to produce more, which adds to the inflationary pressures on the economy, which overwhelm the natural results of a recession in reducing the same. The question then occurs: absent this being a presidential election year, would Congress and the President even proposed the “stimulus” plan, and, although I would hope the answer to this would be in the negative, would the Fed have been as agressive as it has been in cutting the various funds rates it controls?
Well guys, that was incredibly informative, and also very bleak and depressing. Now that I understand much better, I kind of wish I was still ignorant. Ignorance is bliss.
I am sure happy to read this…I was just starting to lose sleep over worrying about ‘Man Made Global Warming’ and the end of civilization as we know it on Earth. Oh no, I just thought of this, now I might start worrying about what the AGW hysterics are going to have to obsess about.
Blog: Science Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming
“Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile — the list goes on and on.
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn’t itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.
Let’s hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans — and most of the crops and animals we depend on — prefer a temperature closer to 70.
Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.”
Steven I can imagine the alternative scenario but am old enough to remember several times in the past that we have achieved a coming together of the country for a common cause.
I will have to admit they are many more voter on both ends of the political parties. Both radical rights and lefts. This is an unknown that could change the outcome.
I hope not.
Pleefer I have to disagree with you on some level. Ron Paul had some good ideas but his idea to become an isolationist nation wasn’t one of those. As a weak country economically we will be a target for many wanting to take over our fine country. Without a strong military we are an open target.
Just moho.
“We don’t, we’ll just keep having wars without end to bankrupt us into bread lines.”
Well Pleef, we could always ask the old USSR how their little adventure in Afghanistan worked out.
Looks like we’re headed for the same mistakes, and the same outcome.
We could always go the European style of living.
Stacked up on each other like cord wood. Refrigerators the size of an ottoman stool. Land sold by the square foot and priced with a gold standard.
Standards so restrictive you can’t even change your own oil unless you spend $50 dollars for an environmental kit to keep from contaminating the ground (required by law.)
Gas charged per quart (it’s per liter in Europe)
Super strict inspections on vehicles. If you have an oil leak – car doesn’t pass inspection. If you have rust in your running boards, trunk, fender wells, undercarriage or anywhere else, your car doesn’t pass inspection.
Environmental Disposal tax for everything and I mean everything you throw away.
And that’s just the tip of the tax burden iceberg.
An U.S. lawnmower would never pass standards in Europe. Of course, mowing your postage stamp sized yard wouldn’t be much of a chore anyway. :)
After all this talk of doom and gloom, I now have a picture in my mind of Russia back in the late 70’s, early 80’s, where people were shown waiting in line for essentials like bread and t.p. The government was in charge of everything, and doled out just enough to the peons for them to survive, nothing more. How’s that for conspiracy Pleefer?
KFG – I think we’re kind of thinking along the same lines on this one.
Boxlock you make a good point. A renewed ice age will decrease the crops we now depend on and lessen the supply worldwide. We will then face higher food costs as well as higher fuel cost to heat with.
What a mess we have made for ourselves. Is there an answer? TDT you have depressed me and I think I will just go to lunch will food is still available.
Wow.
Collectively, you all could probably teach a basic macro-economics class. I don’t think I have much to add. KFG, TDT, VT, et. all, well done.
Let’s speak about the gold standard, however.
I understand, Pleefer, the fascination with the gold standard, but I believe it’s an illusion. The value of money is based on only one thing, ultimately: it’s widespread acceptance in trade for goods or services. Backing money with a a commodity of real value, like gold, may make the money more acceptable, but the dollar’s acceptability is not really the problem (when’s the last time someone refused to take dollars, and instead demanded an item of value instead?).
The dollar is the de facto world currency, and despite our problems (and they are serious) will likely be so for the foreseeable future. And you’re right, the IMF bars pegging currency to gold.
So why would we peg our monetary policy to the supply of a metal which has so much other commercial use, and the supply of which we have relatively little control. What is the advantage to doing so? The gold supplies currently kept by the US Govt. wouldn’t even begin to back the dollars currently in circulation; we’d have to go out and get more gold to do so. What do we pay for it with? Dollars backed in the very commodity we’re buying? And buying from who? S. Africa, China are the largest producers.
No, I think a return to the gold standard is an illusion of stability. Having a gold standard has NEVER prevented a government from simply printing money when it thought it needed to.
TDT and KFG that does it. No lunch I have lost my appetite. I am going out in the sunlight and just appreciate it.
What happens to us and our economy when the rest of the world stops believing in our dollar? And move on to the Euro or Asian currency? We crumble and become “less than important” other than we are able to bomb the countries back to our dollar.
Be sure and use sunscreen ksgrm, you don’t want to drive up the cost of health care by getting skin cancer. :D
Use a recyclable umbrella and make sure the chair you sit in doesn’t damage the surfaces it sits upon or you’ll be responsible for eroding natural surface viabilities.
Oh and before you go back inside, be sure to clean your shoes or remove them, as you don’t want to bring in mold, mildew, soil or nematodes that will contaminate your work place.
But have a nice sunshiney day! :D
TDT, that’s what I’m picturing…but I’m hedging my bets with real values. I’m protecting my family, you friends, ought to do the same.
Pleefer, I’m just not in a situation to do that. When I get my paycheck, I pay my bills, by groceries, fill up my gas tank, and that’s pretty much all that’s left. Okay, so my addiction is renting movies, but even then, I look for good deals.
Go to the libary its free providing you take them back on time
buy ramen noodles whenever you go to the store. grow a little garden this spring. buy a Berkey water purifier online. the little sport berkey’s are cheap. do it man. rent one movie instead of two. a little bit is worth it. man. this country hasn’t felt the way it’s about to since 1929.
the difference between 1929 and now is that there’s a police state apparatus installed now. so if we get mad that we’re hungry, we’ll just get that anger tortured out of us.
Tell the bonus army they didn’t live in a police state. the difference is now the bonus army would be armed
oops that’s right. but… but..soldiers getting screwed over? naaah.
living in tents ouside of DC, they won’t do it again, I hope. this time it’ll be messy.
Hee hee hee Pleef.
“plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches…”
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=51Ni6_mxAXI
hey girl, Ima haveta watch it at home, they blk youtube here.
First off, how much gold is there in the world? The Gold Institute estimates 118,000 tons (a ton is 1,000 kilograms), while the World Gold Council calls it 145,000 tons. Of course, no one knows for certain, as gold exists in government, bank, and private bullion holdings, jewelry, coins of all types, and, being the private metal that it is, quite a bit of gold is squirreled away out of reach of any official accounting.
For the sake of argument, let’s call it 138,000 tons, a number comfortably within those two official estimates.
A kilogram of gold is 32.15 troy ounces, so at $967.70 an ounce, a kilogram is worth $31,111.55. A ton is 1,000 kilos, which makes each ton worth $31,111,550.00.
Take that figure and multiply by our estimate of total world gold supply at 138,000 tons, and we arrive at $4,293,393,900,000. Round it off to $4.3 trillion dollars. So all the gold in the world is worth 4.3 trillion dollars.
There isn’t enough gold in the world, to cover even half of the US National Debt.
http://www.goldinstitute.net/whygold.html
Sad but true Mr/Mrs. Icognito person.
ksag:
First, I agree with Econ on the Buckley thread. Now, I agree with you about Russert last night.
Am I okay?
We’re the only country in the world where most of the poor folks are fat and we teach kids that a “credit” report is something to achieve.
“Go on son, you too can live beyond your means, it can be paid back later”.
Stop it Mr. C!
Get on your side of the chalk line. :)
Mr. C, do I need to send you a copy of “I’m OK, You’re OK”?
Oh, and wheat closed at $12.67 here. I’m willing to bet it goes over $13 before the end of the week.
Bread lines? We may WISH for bread lines.
heh kfg,
Thomas Harris’s, “I’m OK – Your OK” used to be required Leadership training in the Air Force back in the day.
kfg, to state the obvious: that’s because no one will be able to afford to provide the bread to us in line….
Problem is, I like to cook, it’s therapeutic. And boiling water for Ramen Noodles just doesn’t cut the mustard. Second, I don’t know anything about growing a garden. Now renting just one movie is all right, but actually what I do now is pay 9.95 per month at Family Video, get my rentals 1/2 price, and considering that their new releases are only $2.59, their nearly new are $1, and then the older ones are 2 for $1, and on Tues., Wed., and Thurs. if you rent a new release you get a free rental on movies that are a $1, it really is pretty inexpensive.
I wish I had learned how to can from my mom and aunt when I had the chance. That would come in handy. Especially if I could figure out how to grow a garden. I even have a perfect space for it.
I am Okay; you are okay
I am okay; you are not okay
I am not okay; you are okay
I am not okay; you are not okay
Gunfight at the Okay Corral?
TDT,
Netflix !!!!
hey kfg, can you recall what wheat was in 2003? I know gold was $350. today it’s right now at $958. yay!
Now that I’m sufficiently alarmed and depressed, I think I need to do some research on how to grow a garden.
gardens are easy, if you don’t try too hard at growing corn. you’ll end up crying. beans, taters, tomaters, carrots…all grow fairly easily. even w/o a green thumb. I know, I succeeded last year.
A book on parent, teacher, child relationships.
An answer for all social communications.
don’t be depressed, be prepared friend. let the other folks laugh at you like Noah.
So Pleefer, do the veggies you are referring to need lots of sun, or very little sun. My back yard is shady, since my neighbor behind me has a large tree, but my front yard on the east gets very good sunlight.
Pleef, IIRC, it was LESS THAN four dollars for most of 2003.
“Strategic Priorities of the Department of the Treasury
A top priority of the Department is the fundamental reform of entitlement programs. Without this reform, annual outlays by the federal government for Social Security and Medicare are projected to more than double by 2080, representing a grave threat to the American economy. In partnership with Congress, the Department of the Treasury will bring its economic and fiscal expertise to design and implement needed entitlement program reform.
The Department will actively strive to maintain America’s strength and prosperity by developing and implementing policies that encourage overall economic growth. The Treasury Department will collaborate with Congress to establish pro-growth tax programs, and ensure that U.S. regulations provide necessary protections without harming our international competitive position and the competitiveness of U.S. capital markets.”
http://www.treas.gov/offices/management/budget/strategic-plan/2007-2012/07_12.html
“needed entitlement program reform”
Do the strategic priorities of any candidate for President support tihs?
TDT, if you like to cook you should be better off than most. WHOLE foods, processed in your kitchen, are much cheaper than the already processed and packaged kind.
Now, if you just eat things when they are in season, you save money and get better quality. Canning and freezing things in seasons helps too.
Buy local. Find some friendly farmers. Save the cost and environmental problems of shipping and eating foods out of season.
Whole grains are your friend. Meat is a treat.
And drink plenty of TAP water!
hehehehehe. ALL I ever needed to know I learned in Home Ec, not kindergarten.
hee hee hee heeeeeeee…..
TDT, go buy a used copy of “Square Foot Gardening”.
Oh and TDT? One can never be sufficiently alarmed and depressed :)
At least not until after January 20, 2009
kfg will teach you gardening TDT, that is in exchange for some farm labor. :D
heeeeeeee!
I’d rather just sell ya the produce!
Thanks for the tip KFG, I will go and get that book. It’s near time to start on this little project anyway. And I always drink tap water. I just never got into the bottled water craze.
I’ve always had half a day of direct sun. but kfg is right go get that book. amazon prolly has a used one if not book-a-holic. getting in good with the good farmers is a good thing. I think i’m gonna do it real easy this year and just do a “salad garden” which is just plotting our a 15X15 area and throwing all kinds of seeds in it. hopefully it’ll go off right. *fingers crossing*
definitely buy a berkey though.
I’d buy produce from you. I’m needing another new egg source as well. (FOR REAL).
ah, it’s time for a farmer/produce/road side stand joke. :D
City Slicker pulls up to a road side stand where strawberries are being sold by a local farmer.
After sampling one of the strawberries, the City Slicker asks, “Do you use manure on your strawberries?”
Farmer replies matter of fact, “No sir, we use cream on ours.”
:D
should be put manure/cream on…
leave it to me to spoil a good joke. heh
that was funny. heheheheh
Another good learning tool is Organic Gardening magazine.
First mulch container was four wooden pallets!
Look at garage sales for Mason and Ball canning jars.
But buy new rings and lids (and reuse the rings).
Look for pickling crocks too, but they are harder to find.
(got a great crock pickle receipe with grape leaves and Jalapeno Peppers)
Success is a crunchy pickle. Mmmmmm Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Canning is not difficult to learn. You don’t need to
to do the high pressure canning. Cold water bath canning is what the
wife uses after her friend got scaulded. Ball puts out
a basic book – that covers it all. Acidity is key.
The gardening magazines are in and the starter trays cleaned.
Great seeds from Tomato Growers Supply Company. Favorite, and unusual
in these parts are Sweet Gold FT Hybrid orange cherry tomatoes. Very fruity
taste, sweet – and higher in vitamins than most. You will have something
no one else in the neighborhood has, and produces more than enough to share.
Still to wet and cold to till. Can’t wait!
You guys got my primed.
“Do the strategic priorities of any candidate for President support tihs?”
No.
A campaign promise we won’t hear this year: “I will raise your taxes and cut popular entitlement programs!”
“should be put manure/cream on…
“leave it to me to spoil a good joke. heh”
Actually, it works either way.
What’s up with talk radio folk and John McCain?
http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/02/7361_mccain_making_t.html
“A campaign promise we won’t hear this year: “I will raise your taxes and cut popular entitlement programs!”
I agree, but didn’t listen to everything the candidates have said. I did hear talk of new entitlements, which are easy campaign gimmicks
to capture votes.
But no one wants to discuss the hard issues and reality facing this nation just satisfying the needs of current entitlement programs.
Well except Ron Paul…………..
“I want to disassociate myself with any disparaging remarks that may have been said about them [conservative radio talkshow hosts]…I did not set up the program but I take full responsibility.” John McCain
Sounds like an honest answer to me. I wonder if the opposition would stand up against any terrible remarks made by liberals about McCain?
The talkshow hosts are venting. They will fall back in line eventually. Unless you believe they reflect the “vast right wing majority” of listeners who also are distressed by the republican candidate. In which case, you might revise your question, “What’s up with conservatives?”
Steven Davis, I did like this line from the article your link points to: reference to
“CBS the Clinton Broadcasting System,
NBC the Nobody But Clinton network,
All Bill Clinton channel ABC, and the
Clinton News Network.” [CNN]
AmWay:
“I wonder if the opposition would stand up against any terrible remarks made by liberals about McCain?”
I did.
As much as I don’t want John McCain to be president, I know FOR A FACT that the crap some disaffected former aides to McCain are trying to create about an affair with Vickie Iseman are not true.
And I have said so. Repeatedly.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to point fingers at anyone here. I meant the candidates themselves.
A perfect 5 on the tinfoil hat rating scale:
“Ann Coulter, who quipped, ‘If you attack the Clintons publicly, make sure all your friends know that you are not planning suicide.’”
http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2008/01/conspiracy-watch.html
All the water in the world, and all the air in the atmosphere… shown on the same scale as the Earth.
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/2/26/16314/5163
Thanks for that link cosmos. I had the volume of the air figured about like that. But I had no idea there was so little water!
Everybody should see that picture.
Fascinating picture Cosmos… Thanks!!
Pleefer I didn’t mean to go off and leave you in a funk. Maybe you are much younger than me but I don’t think this change will be terminal. I do think we will be much closer on our opinions of what to expect from our government though.
As far as the US in comparison with other countries buying powers. We are a nation of consumers and if we stop consuming tomorrow the economy of China would be in the tank.
For this reason China wont work to bring our government down but will prop it up to keep the consumers consuming.
It will get worse but It will also get better. IMOHO.
The eagle reports that we spent 5.6% more for groceries last year. They even have an article about how to save money at the grocery store.
They failed to mention that we paid 7.3% in grocery taxes.
It’s time for another tea party.
Interesting pic cosmos.
Too bad they didn’t carry it out to its logical conclusion with the land surface area which is much smaller than the ocean’s surface area.
It also demonstrates that the earth’s core, mantle and subsequent layers make up the bulk of the earth and affect it’s orbit and rotation which ultimately and positionally affects how the climate on the earth is settled by forces greater than the sum of the earth’s “coverings.”
Just got this in an email
See below this is very urgent!!
CHECK YOUR DRIVER’S LICENSE
This is upsetting. Thought I should pass it along. Check your driver’s license… In any state.
Now you can see anyone’s Driver’s License on the Internet, including your own! I just searched for mine and there it was…picture and all!
Thanks Homeland Security! Privacy, where is our right to it? Anyone can get your home address. What’s next? I definitely removed mine, I suggest
you all do the same….. Go to the website and check it out..
Just enter your name, City and state to see if yours is on file.
After your license comes on the screen, click the box marked “Please Remove”. This will remove it from public viewing, but not from law
enforcement.
http://www.license.shorturl.com
Just heard this on the news — the Congressional committee that had the steroids testimony is having Clemens being investigated for perjury —-
Is that what we pay them for? Shouldn’t baseball be handling it’s own business? ,,,, and those clowns got a raise ———-
Fleetwood,
Great observation.
It’s also interesting to compare the Base Commissary to local grocery stores here.
The cost of grocery and non-grocery items are marked up I think 15-20 percent maximum at the Commissary to maintain its staff and maintenance.
(non appropriated funds)
If you select any 20 items at the Commissary and found the same brand at let’s say Dillons, people would be extremely ticked off on how much Dillons gouges people on the price.
The only items where Dillons might be cheaper are on loss leader generic (kroger/dillon) brand items. However, that is slowly disappearing as well.
Next time I shop there, I’ll match up a few items and compare them at Dillons. The difference will floor people and wonder why Grocers are so greedy, especially with the non-grocery items.
Cute, Ken; I needed the laugh.
“The difference will floor people and wonder why Grocers are so greedy, especially with the non-grocery items.”
Thank you for your kind words, BUT…
“Greedy”? What in the hell does that mean?
As in making excess profit on some items while coaxing people in with cheaper loss leader items.
My apologies in advance to Grocers. :D
However, if one was to see the price differences, they would understand what I mean. :)
Regular, it seems VERY disingenious to make an attempt to compare Comissary prices with those of Dillons (or any retail grocery)… After all, Commisary prices are government subsidized… Thats one of your “benefits”
Grocers roll the dice like anybody else who puts a price on something. We have choices where we shop. No guns are involved. Competition will out.
As Bruce Williams sez, Bulls make money, Bears make money, Pigs get slaughtered.
Coming to a local market near you:
http://cjonline.com/stories/022708/bre_wibwcox.shtml
WIBW and KAKE are both owned by Gray. WIBW and KAKE supply Cox with programming for Kansas Now 22.
Draw your own conclusions here:
“Thats one of your “benefits””
One that he earned.
Absolutely incorrect Chas, the groceries at the Commissaries are not subsidized by the government.
The Air Force Commissary (AFCOMS) and other military commissaries are ran through Non-Appropriated Funds.
What that means to you non-military types, is that the Commissary generates its own funding through sales to keep itself going structurally, maintenance and to pay its employees. (The baggers work for tips only)
The only part that the Government pays for is the land and the building itself. This is true with all non-appropriated funded facilities such as the Base or Post Exchanges (BX or PX), barber shops, recreation facilities and etc.
It will quite easy to compare prices because of the new requirement of cost per unit displayed on most stores now days, including the commissary.
Regular– Are these products marked “for commissary purchase only” or some such?
Yea, Regular… The Commisary is not open for business to the entire community like Dillons or WalMart!! And yes, Fleet… I KNOW he earned the benefit…
fleet, no they are not marked; commissary products are the same as you find in an off-base store.
From the Defense Commissary Official Website:
The Defense Commissary Agency with headquarters at Fort Lee, Virginia, operates a worldwide chain of commissaries providing groceries to military personnel, retirees and their families in a safe and secure shopping environment. Authorized patrons purchase items at cost plus a 5–percent surcharge, which covers the costs of building new commissaries and modernizing existing ones. Shoppers save an average of more than 30 percent on their purchases compared to commercial prices—savings worth about $3,000 annually for a family of four. A core military family support element, and a valued part of military pay and benefits, commissaries contribute to family readiness, enhance the quality of life for America’s military and their families, and help recruit and retain the best and brightest men and women to serve their country. See our Strategic Plan.
http://www.commissaries.com/about_us.cfm
I am wondering if a manufacturer wants to get a contract with someone who will buy a zillion of what you make, your price will be rock bottom.
A penny profit on a zillion ain’t bad.
Here’s a couple of meat items I had in my freezer from the commissary.
Eckridge Sausage – 16 ounces – 2 linkes $1.79/package
93 percent Lean Ground Hamburger Beef 1.89/pound
I think I threw away my receipt so don’t remember the other prices.
Ya Fleetwood,that’s one of the secrets.
The Defense Department, especially the Commissary has what they call “Brand Name” contracts. They go to Del Monte, for instance, and negotiate a price for the World Wide distribution of Commissaries.
“93 percent Lean Ground Hamburger Beef 1.89/pound”
Honey! Are these prices any good?
Where is she when I need her?
But, Regular, your comparison isnt legitimate… since not everybody can take advantage of the 5% mark-up at a Comissary!!
Join the military. You can get all the cheap grocerys you want.
Sure it is Chas.
I can calculate the cost of each item, by subtracting 5 percent from my receipt and determine it.
Actually, I don’t have to do that as the surcharge is only added on the end of the receipt.
So, I can look at the price of each item and show the comparison.
oops clicked too soon..
especially on locally procured items like bread (rainbow, wonder, etc.) or other locally procured items that come from the same bakeries as Wichitans buy.
Reg one valid point would be if your overhead didn’t include building ownership and maintenance you wouldn’t need as large a markup on your groceries.
Also they don’t pay their sackers and carryouts so this would be another overhead expense Dillons has.
I applaud all military past and present and think they have earned every break they get. But also feel that civilian grocers do have more overhead to cover thus more markup.
You are purposely dodging my point, Regular…
You are a privileged person… No Military, No shop Commissary… obviously you will save big bucks… but ONLY if have the military benefit!! The Comissary price does me or my family NO GOOD at all!!
ksgrm, then compare Wal-Mart. They do not have sacker or carryouts.
Purchasing power is big. It allows the company to optimize profits. If your comp buys for a dollar and you can buy for 75 cents, you call sell for a little less than them and make a killing.
That’s not greed. You saved the customer money.
Everybody is happy, except your comp.
“The Comissary price does me or my family NO GOOD at all!!”
Sure it does. Want me to tell you why?
That’s true ksgrm.
What I was referring to was non grocery items like bug spray, brand name toilet paper, brand name shampoos, certain pharmaceuticals (aspirins, etc.), toothpaste and etc.
The price difference is astounding!
As I recall as much as $2.00 per item on some items.
Chas, I wasn’t talking about any benefit for you and your family.
I was talking about items in local Grocery stores that are marked up tremendously over cost – usually non-grocery items.
Sure Fleet — This should be good, how cheap prices at the Comissary… where I cant go… helps me??? Go for it!! CapN might be right after all (BDP) LOL
JimmyMac posted February 27, 2008 at 5:03 pm
“… the earth’s core, mantle and subsequent layers make up the bulk of the earth and affect it’s orbit and rotation which ultimately and positionally affects how the climate on the earth is settled by forces greater than the sum of the earth’s “coverings.” ”
‘APPALACHIAN MOUNTAINS, CARBON DIOXIDE CAUSED LONG-AGO GLOBAL COOLING’
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/wethring.htm
“The rise of the Appalachian Mountains may have caused a major ice age approximately 450 million years ago, an Ohio State University study has found.
The weathering of the mountains pulled carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere, causing the opposite of a greenhouse effect — an “icehouse” effect.
…
It also reinforces the notion that CO2 levels in the atmosphere are a major driver of Earth’s climate.”
^5 for that water link Cosmos.
Fleet has it. When you buy in volumn as Walmart does you get a volumn break. The commisary is like that in a way. Twice a year they have boxload sales where you can buy a years worth of paper products, soaps, detergents, can goods, etc… This allows for an even bigger savings.
And Chas it has nothing to do with fairness. This was a side benefit for their years in the service. That is like me saying that my retirement plan isn’t as lucrative as yours and I put in the same number years working.
Apples and oranges.
Of course James… The BENEFIT of the Comissary prices is for MILITARY folks… not for everybody!! Thats cool… But you cant knock the retailers for making their profits… The Comissary doesnt need to make a profit!!
IIRC, the items sold to the military are bid. If they werent making a profit, they wouldnt bid for it.
Bid, that is, unless you are halliburton or blackwater.
And really, you can buy caselots of canned veggies and fruits CHEAPER than you can do your own.
But they wont be nearly as good. :)
That may be true cosmos, but speculate on this if the earth did not rotate or if the earth was of less mass internally and did not have the magnetic forces to position itself properly in orientation with the sun -
- where does that leave your co2?
It leaves it either much hotter or sub zero cold,that’s where.
Positioning, tectonics and other factors have tremendous effect on the climate.
Reg I would have to agree with you on that. My sis and her husband shop there and I walk thru with them ocassionally. He is retired AF. The toiletries are much cheaper and she always find many coupons that lower the price even more.
They went many years with not much as he served his country and for the first time in years she has actually emptied all of the boxes. It’s a tradeoff and one well deserved.
And right on time, no pun intended…
The World’s Growing Food-Price Crisis
Source: Time Magazine
Add another item to the list of threats to world peace: Food.
Soaring prices of staples — which have risen about 75% since 2005, driven by growing demand, rising oil prices and the effects of global warming — have sparked riots in several countries, as people reel from sticker shock and governments scramble to feed their people. Crowds tore through three cities in the West African nation of Burkina Faso late last week, burning government buildings and looting stores; when officials tried to talk peace with one group of protesters, the enraged crowd hurled stones at them. The riots followed similar violent protests over food prices in Senegal and Mauritania earlier this year. And, last October, protesters in Pakistan burned hundreds of food-ration stores in West Bengal after stockpiles emptied, leaving thousands of people unfed.
Governments might succeed in quashing the protests, but lowering food prices could be far tougher and will likely take years, according to analysts who track global food consumption. The Washington-based International Food Policy Research Institute, or IFPRI, said last December that high prices are unlikely to fall soon, partly because world food stocks are being squeezed by soaring demand.
The wild ride in agricultural markets has attracted intense speculation among investors, with billions of dollars being poured into commodities markets. On Monday, the price of wheat shot up about 25% on the Chicago Board of Trade, after officials in Khazakstan announced plans to restrict exports of their giant wheat crop in order to ensure the food supply to their own citizens. Russian officials have also said they are planning to restrict grain exports.
For the world’s poorest people, the price rises are already proving devastating, since the speed at which prices have risen has wrought havoc on government relief programs. Earlier this month, a top official at the U.S. Agency for International Development admitted that in order to meet current targets, it had been forced to skim off funds from future food-aid programs, worth about $120 million.
The problem is exacerbated by the fact that millions more people who were previously earning enough to feed their families can now no longer afford the food in their local stores, and are now swelling the ranks of those expecting relief from aid organizations. “We are seeing a new face of hunger,” the executive director of U.N.’s World Food Program, Josette Sheeran, told TIME on Tuesday. “People who were not in the urgent category are now moving into that category.” The organization currently feeds about 73 million people, including millions who get by on just 50 cents a day.
After hosting a series of emergency meetings with international organizations and food experts this month at WFP’s Rome headquarters, Sheeran said the organization has concluded that food prices will remain high for years. She announced on Monday that the organization might have to cut its relief programs unless it raises an extra $500 million this year. “There is no way we can absorb a 25% price rise in one day and the volatility of the markets,” Sheeran said.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1717572,0…
“This should be good, how cheap prices at the Comissary… where I cant go… helps me??? Go for it!! CapN might be right after all (BDP) LOL”
Thank you for the opportunity. Batter up!
When we have a happy military, highly trained and retained, it makes your life possible. The “what’s in it for me” and “how does this help me” thinking is not acceptable. You were the first in line over the poor conditions at Walter Reed. Good for you. These military folks deserve good hospitals and commisarys. No difference. The goverment (under Republicans) wants to be a good employer of the military. It’s the one investment the goverment is charged with doing.
And Ken? You might enjoy this about congressional “investigations”. “Hissyspit” is one of my favorite posters.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×2931158
KFG just wondering do you make your own dill pickles? Growing up my grandma made the best dill pickles I have ever tasted. I have tried to match them and never have. I remember that they were garlicky and had green grapes in them for some reason. You didn’t eat these but it was something about making the pickles crisper.
I’ll give Chas a reason why the bulk buying of the Commissary benefits the non-military buyer of groceries.
It helps keeps prices stabilized when the government has their bidding hands in the process. When a DECOM rep meets with a Del Monte rep, they can negotiate a price for 1 million cans of green beans and Del Monte will still make a handsome profit simply by sheer volume of sale.
That profit will benefit Del Monte greatly and they don’t “need” to charge Kroger/Dillons as much to make up for lack of volume sales.
Multiply that by several thousand line items and you get the picture.
Fleet, spin it any way you want… it doesnt help me with my shopping prices… I have no problem with providing for our military… My sis and bro-in-law had base privileges for many years… it was their right… But to make some kind of comparison of the prices at the Base, and the prices at Dillons… That just isnt a fair comparison — No matter HOW you spin it!!
In truth, I’m not a great canner or pickler. I can do it, but I wouldnt win any prizes. Except for my hot pickled peppers, but they are an ALL DAY JOB!
I also dry some foods, peppers and such. Then I keep them in the freezer just to be safe.
Makes some killer chile powder.
Mostly, I freeze. Yeah, I know, not energy wise, but damn, a hot kitchen in the middle of canning season is like Dante’s ninth inferno.
“Abandon hope all ye who enter here”.
Hehehehehhe. I have friends that had a freestanding canning “shack”. It was a metal building with stoves and a sink. They could can and not heat up the house. And they could go in and cook dinner and such without disturbing the canning process.
I wish I had one. Oh, and I wish I had a smokehouse too.
Maybe in the next life…
AmWay commented about pickling crocks. The BEST pickles I ever had were open crocks or “salt goomers” as my Mom called them.
She was the best. I miss her so much. I have ONE jar of her pickled beets left…
We did make sauerkraut in an open crock last year. Damn good. I froze it though. I didnt trust the open crock that long.
I hated canning season at my grandparents farm. It means I usually got stuck with shucking corn or snapping beans which was mass boring. :D
Forking potatoes up wasn’t too bad, as I would find fishing worms. :)
The hardest work was before and after crops. Plowing, one waying, weed pulling, mulching, hoeing and etc. Not to mention after harvest, getting rid of all the corn stalks and tilling wasn’t much fun as one ate much dust and whatever floated in the air from the chopped up plants. It was usually hot too. :D
“When we have a happy military, highly trained and retained, it makes your life possible.”
All due respect to the military.
This is more than a little exaggerated.
Commissaries huh?
Well I know they get SOME government funding because I remeber hearing about bush cutting it.
Interesting side note here. My X worked at a commissary in Idaho. She lost her job and the commissary had to do all sorts of cutbacks. I am not much in touch with the X but for all I know that commissary may not have survived. I know they were having trouble.
See? A new super Walmart opened in the town.
That would be the same town devastated by Walmart that I posted about the other day.
Almost all retailers mark up their stuff 100%. Restaurants usually 300%.
After that? Whatever any business can get away with, they will. Without competition of course.
Cutbacks JR is because employees such as Managers, warehouse employees and stockers are Civil Service which are appropriated funding – which is paid by Department of the Defense Funding.
If Congress cuts funding in personnel, then each Agency, such as the Defense Commissary system has to cut back as well.
There used to be Military workers in the commissary when I first came in. I still remember a young Lieutenant in Germany that was from Louisiana that was the Store Manager. Boy did he ever have a Cajun accent. :D
JR I agree on the Walmart issue. Most small towns that have seen Walmart come in have seen many small businesses leave.
Crock dills are the closest I have come to grandmas pickles. I haunt county fairs hoping to see some with the green grapes in the bottom and getting recipes. No success – probably a lost art.
Growing up in a large family we had a saying ‘If we can’t raise it we won’t eat it’. This was a little sad when my dad started rasing rabbits. We had a large kitchen and one of my fondest memories were the late winter night when we had the big flat boxes of baby chicks with lights over them. By spring they were fryer size and we sold some and ate some.
Unfortunately all my kids know about chickens is that they can be domesticated. One of their school science experiments became our family pet for a while. When I set in the swing to read outside he would always settle in my lap to help me read. He just disappeared out of our backyard one day. Figured someone had some great fried chicken.
Kids today don’t know how easy they have it.
JimmyMac, speculate on an Earth with zero CO2 in the atmosphere. Orbit and other factors do not make CO2 insignificant.
ksgrm,
I made myself a pest one year during a chicken episode, was about 8 years old or so. We had a burn barrel for the chicken feathers. My grandmother would ring the necks and my grandfather would pull the feathers. My mother and father would prepare the chickens by cleaning and eviscerating them.
When one of the floppy heading chickens was running around more than usual, I decided to chase it. In doing so, I didn’t notice the burn barrel and knocked it over. Hot ashes wafted through the air and landed on a very dry, harvested corn field which immediately burst into flames.
I stood there in shock and my grandfather calmly stated as he fetched a shovel to smother the fire, I had saved him some time on putting the stalks back into the ground.
heh
cosmos,
Speculate on the production of co2 without carbonates or carbon producing substances from the earth, all formed naturally.
but damn, a hot kitchen in the middle of canning season is like Dante’s ninth inferno.
KSGrrl?
Why not just put your stock pot on the charcoal grill outside?
That’s what I do.
Orbit and other factors do not make CO2 insignificant.
Usually, I don’t have much to can until about LABOR DAY though.
Slowest ripening tomatoes in Kansas . . .
Cosmos a very interesting observation I have noticed since we purchased the Prius: People come up and talk to us all of the time when they see it wondering about the milage. When I see others driving them they are all about our age as are the people who tell us they are going to buy one.
That being said: Why the interest in saving gas by my generation and not by the younger generations? Is your message going out to the right people because even though I don’t agree with all of the GW things I do recognize that we do need to make better use of our resources.
Young people genrally cant afford new cars?
Cap my sis who raises cattle and has the acerage where we garden bought a one bedroom travel trailer. Inexpensive, stripped out everything but the kitchen and bathroom put in a second stove and tables all around. The air conditioner works great and you have water right there. At night you just turn out the lights and shut the door. No mess in the house and a year round place to store the canning supplies.
Tom I guess I was thinking more of the middle line SUV’s. Maybe late 20’s or early 30’s. I see lots in new cars which cost as much as the Prius.
You might be planting those tomatoes too late Capn.
Start them indoors from seed to give them a head start.
Then be sure and nip a few buds off, along with some runners, so the plant doesn’t become spindly and feed a lot of greenery.
Water regular times, but not a lot. Too much water will make the green of the plant to much and won’t allow the fruit to blossom out as quick or to the full.
Plant some flowers reasonably close to the tomato plants, so you bring in the pollen spreaders (bees, etc.) If you plant abott 10-12 inches apart minimum, this is better for the plants.
With seedlings, you can start several crops of tomatoes and have them clear up to the first freeze.
Use a 10-10-10 or A. nitrate fertilizer.
Cherry tomatoes are popular for salads and take a wee bit over two months to bear fruit. If you raise seedlings for three consecutive months, you’ll have plenty of salad material for a long while. :)
Non-acid tomatoes are interesting too, the yellowish-orange ones. They taste good and are good for those who have problems digesting high acid foods.
I always mulch around my plants with some straw. Keeps the moisture in and the weeds down. Brings in a few critters, but worth it imo.
I use insecticide dust in the soil to prevent root bugs and dust periodically.
If you want to go natural, there are other solutions.
Pick em before they completely ripen, because the field heat will continue to sugar them up for a few days to continue the ripening process.
If you raise a bigger tomato, pick some when they are green. Slice them up and make them into a pie, just like you would apple pie. Green tomato pie is delicious – along with fried, green tomatoes as well.
Fried green tomatoes and some eggplant make a fine meal. :)
Looks like I wont be doing a garden this year… Gonna be working out of town still… Oh well, my neighbor can use the garden space, and he always shares… :-)
News from the statehouse today:
HEARINGS HELD ON IMMIGRATION
In the House
The House Federal and State Affairs Committee began consideration this week of four bills dealing with illegal immigration. Legislators agree that Kansas employers shouldn’t hire illegal immigrants, but they disagree over how the state should punish violators. The bills deal with hiring requirements, denying most public benefits to illegal immigrants, allowing local governments to ban them from renting houses and requiring local and state law enforcement officers to review the citizenship of people they stop for any violation. Chairman Arlen Siegfreid, R-Olathe, said that in two weeks his committee will merge the four bills into one and send it to the House floor for debate. Dealing with illegal immigration has become a priority for many legislators this year as public pressure mounts for the state to do something because Congress has failed to act.
Committee members disagree about what should be done to those who hire illegal immigrants. The big question will come down to sanctions or penalties for employers. Committee members heard from supporters Monday and from opponents on Tuesday, including those who see the legislation as anti-Hispanic and business groups opposed to mandating the use of E-Verify and placing the burden of immigration enforcement on businesses. E-Verify is a federal database that allows checks whether a person is legally allowed to work and has a valid Social Security number.
Rep. Brenda Landwehr, a Wichita Republican co-sponsoring one of the bills, asked “When is it good public policy to reward illegal behavior?” Attacking the problem may be easier said than done, said Rep. Louis Ruiz, a committee member. Terry Holdren of the Kansas Farm Bureau said his group and 35 other business groups, including the Kansas Chamber of Commerce and Kansas Livestock Association, oppose mandatory use of E-Verify. They also oppose penalties that put a business license in jeopardy and subject contractors to liability for the status of a subcontractor’s workers. “We are committed to providing a system that ensures that legitimate businesses are not subject to mandates or unnecessary penalties and look forward to working with you to achieve this objective,” Holdren said.
Rep. Lance Kinzer, R-Olathe, a co-sponsor along with Landwehr, said federal law limits what states can do to impose penalties on businesses and take action against licenses a company needs to operate. There is disagreement about what the penalties on businesses should be, but there’s not a wide range of options on penalties that states can levy concerning immigration status. Penalties in one bill include up to a 10-day suspension of business licenses for the first offense and permanent revocation for a second violation. Another bill calls for suspension for 10 to 30 days for the first offense, 90 days the second time and permanent revocation the third time. Business licenses are required for doing business in Kansas.
The proposals require that, after Jan. 1, 2009, employers use E-Verify. Employers who use E-Verify have a defense if they hire someone cleared by E-Verify who is later found to be an illegal immigrant. The state chamber of commerce testified that the business community is opposed to the bills. “We are not interested in being responsible in the business community for solving a social concern,”
said Amy Blankenbiller, president of the Kansas Chamber of Commerce.
The business community showed up in force yesterday to oppose the punishment of businesses that hire undocumented immigrants. Reg Robertson, with Custom Lawn and Landscape in Olathe, echoed the sentiments of many witnesses when he said federal rules haven’t allowed enough work visas for out-of-country workers. “The federal government wants to send me to jail if I hire illegals and now you want to revoke my business license,” Robertson said.
Yesterday’s hearing concluded testimony on the House bills. Chairman Siegfreid said the panel will weld the four proposals together and debate the one bill when it returns to the issue March 10, after “turnaround.” The rest of this week, the legislature will be working bills on the floor because nonexempt bills must be passed by the house of origin this week, or they die.
In the Senate
Meanwhile, this morning supporters of immigration legislation told the Senate Fed & State Affairs committee that Kansas will become a magnet for illegal immigrants without stronger laws. Committee members were told that Kansas laws are so lenient that illegal immigrants look at the state as a place to go when they leave neighboring states. That is because those states have tougher laws, supporters of the legislation said. The committee will hear next week from opponents. The Senate bill under consideration also requires employers to use a federal database to verify whether a person can legally work. It also requires law enforcement to check the citizenship of anybody they detain and seeks to guarantee that federal and state law which denies most public benefits to illegal immigrants is enforced.
News from our statehouse Day 44 of session:
COAL PLANT CONFERENCE MAY DRAG INTO NEXT WEEK
Three senators and three House members became less optimistic yesterday about being able to finish their work this week on a bill allowing two coal-fired power plants in southwest Kansas. The conference committeey had their second round of negotiations and made little progress after more than an hour of talks. They spent most of their time talking about a proposal to form a commission to study energy policy that the Senate approved but the House rejected. Two negotiators, Rep. Carl Dean Holmes, R-Liberal, and Sen. Pat Apple, R-Louisburg, said the talks could last into next week.
Both chambers have voted to allow Sunflower Electric Power Corp. to build the two plants outside of Holcomb, in Finney County. The $3.6 billion project has been blocked since October by the Sebelius’
administration over environmental concerns. Both chambers also voted to limit the power of the secretary of health and environment to set new air-quality rules.
News from our statehouse Day 45:
“THREE STRIKES” BILL STALLS
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman John Vratil, R-Leawood, says his panel won’t consider the “three strikes” measure until at least next week. To keep the bill alive, Senate leaders will have to exempt it from normal legislative deadlines. The turnaround deadline requires that most bills must clear the chamber in which they were introduced by Saturday. Senate Majority Leader Derek Schmidt, an Independence Republican, is pushing the measure. The bill is responding to frustrations with having repeat offenders being put on probation rather than imprisoned for a long time. Some lawmakers worry the bill could make prisons overcrowded and require the state to invest in building more prisons or enlarging the ones we have.
(Of course we don’t want to put any more stress on our corrections officers whom we pay peanuts.)
Man, I was reading the posts from when I left work up to now, seems very conducive to actually helping each other in here. This is a blog that I can learn to love. Awesome!
Also from the statehouse session today. The previous posts were items I think are of interest to posters on the WEBlog. This one, I haven’t read any posts about. So tell me if I should shut up. I find it all interesting, and think we all should know what’s up in Topeka. But if not, tell me I am wasting space. Trying to limit posts to things I see of interest herein:
SCHOOL FINANCE DEBATED
This afternoon the House began talking about school finance. The first bill debated, HB 2760, pulls low enrollment weighting money two years from now for districts that have 200 students or less and are less than 200 sq. miles. The argument made for the bill is that low enrollment weighting should not go to school districts that are “small by choice” since the school district is near other districts. Several districts around the state would lose substantial funding.
An attempt was made to send the bill back to committee, which failed. Then a “gut and go” was proposed, which would replace the original bill with the contents of a senate bill that puts $59 on the base state aid per pupil, increasing funding for a fourth year and allowing school district to plan ahead with knowledge of school funding a year out. A request to divide the question into two votes. The first vote was on the amendment to add the new language to the bill. It failed. The second vote was on the removal of the original contents of the bill. It failed.
The second bill on school finance was HB 2605, which changes the high density at risk weighting formula in the three year plan. It replaces the weighting that is presently a stair step approach, to a linear transition. The goal is to protect districts from a huge funding change due to the change in a small percentage of students in the district that qualify as at risk. The debate about the bill centered around 36 to 38 districts that lose funding for next year because of the change. An amendment was proposed to add funding for training teachers and identifying students with dyslexia, $6 million. An amendment was proposed that would add new funding and eliminate most of the lost funding for those districts. It failed. The bill passed on to final action.
Loss of wind causes Texas power grid emergency
Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:11pm EST
HOUSTON (Reuters) – A drop in wind generation late on Tuesday, coupled with colder weather, triggered an electric emergency that caused the Texas grid operator to cut service to some large customers, the grid agency said on Wednesday.
ERCOT said the grid’s frequency dropped suddenly when wind production fell from more than 1,700 megawatts, before the event, to 300 MW when the emergency was declared.
Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) said a decline in wind energy production in west Texas occurred at the same time evening electric demand was building as colder temperatures moved into the state.
Looks like we still have to have those coal plants when the wind doesn’t blow.
The greatest untapped source of enery is the conservation of what we already have.
“caused the Texas grid operator to cut service to some large customers,”
I bet those “large customers” may look into being more energy efficient.
Then be sure and nip a few buds off, along with some runners, so the plant doesn’t become spindly and feed a lot of greenery.
Untrimmed plants produce more tomatoes individually; however, more tomatoes can be produced per unit area by trimming and planting more plants.
Trimming and planting more plants?
Dogshit.
Boxlock posted February 27, 2008 at 9:11 pm
“Looks like we still have to have those coal plants when the wind doesn’t blow.”
How about the other power suppliers producing when they are scheduled? More from Boxlock’s source,
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080228/us_nm/utilities_ercot_wind_dc_1
“In addition, ERCOT said multiple power suppliers fell below the amount of power they were scheduled to produce on Tuesday.
…
At the time of the emergency, ERCOT demand increased from 31,200 MW to a peak of 35,612 MW, about half the total generating capacity in the region, according to the agency’s Web site.”
And power was only curtailed to “interruptible” customers.
Fear mongers trying to get people all worked up over pretty much of nothing… Shameful!!
I repeat cosmos because as much as you study this stuff you don’t seem able to understand, your agenda is just to strong. The main cause of the emergency was;
“ERCOT said the grid’s frequency dropped suddenly when wind production fell from more than 1,700 megawatts, before the event, to 300 MW when the emergency was declared.”
AUSTIN — Operators of the Texas power grid scrambled Tuesday night to keep the lights on after a sudden drop in wind power threatened to cause rolling blackouts, officials confirmed Wednesday.
“This situation means that there is a heightened risk of … regular customers being dropped through rotating outages, but that would occur only if further contingencies occur, and only as a last resort to avoid the risk of a complete blackout,” the State Operations Center stated in an e-mail notice to municipalities.
Kent Saathoff, vice president for system operations at ERCOT, said Tuesday’s event illustrates the inherent challenges associated with using wind power. Because the wind sometimes stops blowing without a moment’s notice, engineers at ERCOT must remain nimble enough to respond to instability that can result from the resulting power dip on the grid, he said.
Some critics have said that wind power, although providing a source of clean energy, also brings with it plenty of hidden costs and technical challenges. Besides requiring the construction of expensive transmission lines, the fickle nature of wind also means that the state cannot forgo the construction of other sorts of generators to replace that power on short notice.
“This is a warning to all those who think that renewable energy is the sole answer (to the state’s power needs),” said Geoffrey Gay, an attorney representing Fort Worth and other North Texas municipalities in utility issues. “We can’t put all our eggs in one basket when it comes to any form of generation. We need to consider the cost and the reliability issues, in addition to the environmental impact.”
Build those coal plants, wind in fine except when it isn’t, and thats pretty frequently.
The tricky and slippery slope of stagflation:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/business/28fed.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1204176676-gZEiQ6+I+oAKI4nxtccHag
Planned Parenthood shysters have succeeded in stalling the Johnson County grand jury investigation for 50 days, and between the shysters, the whore of a judge, and the special prosecutor, have managed to thwart the intent of the petition calling the jury.
All it would take to collect the subpoenaed criminal evidence for an indictment is sending a couple of deputies with shotguns.
- – -
A dead baby girl in a basket was left outside Presbyterian St. Luke’s Hospital in Denver, CO Tuesday. It is not known, actually, if the baby was alive when abandoned, although someone reportedly ran the call bell and fled. The death is being investigated as a homicide.
Legalized abortion cheapens human life.
Boxlock,
“At the time of the emergency, ERCOT demand increased from 31,200 MW to a peak of 35,612 MW, about half the total generating capacity in the region, according to the agency’s Web site.”
That’s an increase of about 4,400 MW.
Explain how a loss of about 1,400 MW of wind power was the primary cause of the “emergency”.
Also, winds drop when a high pressure system moves near an area. The drop in wind speed should have been expected, unless it happened earlier than forecast.
And Boxlock… you really should research your pro-coal position.
‘It’s the economics, stupid
How to make the case against coal’
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/2/21/105218/304
cosmos,
The point of this example is that the wind ALL across west Texas dropped. No matter how many windmills, they would have slowed or stopped…meaning less production. A drop of over 70% by the way! Alternate generating capacity is still needed, and coal is far preferable cost wise than natural gas.
In the article it stated “Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) said a decline in wind energy production in west Texas occurred at the same time evening electric demand was building as colder temperatures moved into the state.” Are you blaming the consumers for wanting to stay warm as cold moved in? The producers are there to meet demand, that’s their purpose. Wind is great, I’m not against it, but it is never going to provide the reliability necessary to eliminate primary or back up production, and coal is much quicker and easier to bring online than nuclear.
OMG, GREEN TOMATO PIE!! YUMMMO!
Hardly anyone knows about it. Sorta sweet and tangy like rhubarb. Oh, I love it!
Germie, that trailer idea is a good one. You could use it to clean chickens too, and go from farm to farm. That is, if more people still raised fryers.
One of the vendors at the farmers market here does that too. It’s just an enclosed trailer though, not a travel trailer. But they pick and store and then hitch up and pull it to the market and sell outta the trailer. I’m jealous. :)
Captain, I cant control the heat on the grill. But I do have a turkey fryer, and if the WIND cooperates, that is an idea too. Propane vs charcoal.
Maybe we need a WEblog seed exchange? I always buy packets of seeds but never use them all up, and I like fresh seeds every year, even though I know they last a couple of years.
And TDT, if you are here, google “cheap living”. There are a billion websites with advise.
Boxlock,
Why are you unable to understand that wind was not the only factor?
“In addition, ERCOT said multiple power suppliers fell below the amount of power they were scheduled to produce on Tuesday. That, coupled with the loss of wind generated in West Texas, created problems moving power to the west from North Texas.”
“Alternate generating capacity” was available. How much excess generating capacity do you want?
“At the time of the emergency, ERCOT demand increased from 31,200 MW to a peak of 35,612 MW, about half the total generating capacity in the region, according to the agency’s Web site.”
Wind variabilty is not a problem until it’s generating more than about 20% of the total capacity. It’s not nearly that high in TX.
The wind drop in West TX should’ve been forecast, if the high pressure was expected to track over/near that area.
Coal plants are not the best for getting power online quickly. Nat gas fired turbines are quicker, and often used to handle “peaks”.
Another small, quick source is powered by a jet (airplane) engine.
It’s cheaper to increase end-use energy efficiency than build new coal plants.
And with rising coal costs and other factors, it’s becoming cheaper to use nat gas instead of coal.
cosmos,
I have no problem with energy efficiency believe me when it is economically practical when doing it now and not unforeseen years in the future.
I have no problem at all with wind generation either, but I do have a problem with simply shutting down the building of conventional plants for a reason I’m not all that concerned about (sorry, just being truthful) and betting on generation that works some of the time.
And we need to save our natural gas to heat our homes, coal is cheap and very plentiful. I would rather heat my home with gas and have electricity generated by…yes wind, AND coal when needed to help keep the gas costs down.