WE Blog

SUBSIDIZING MANURE LAGOONS – by Jim Hightower
Old MacDonald Incorporated, has a farm, and e-i-e-i-o, it stinks and it pollutes!
Washington is about to pass a humongous farm bill, and there has been wide coverage of the fact that the bulk of crop subsidies provided by the bill go to very large agribusiness operations -with 60 percent of family farmers getting not a dime in crop payments. However, there’s another agribusiness subsidy stuck in this whopper of a bill that gets little media coverage. Under the guise of environmental improvement, it provides about $180 million to huge corporate entities that run industrialized hog and cattle operations. These factory farms keep the animals confined, feeding and medicating them in an assembly line process.
Having hundreds of animals crammed into these factory facilities, however, creates a special problem for industrial agriculture: waste. Hogs and cattle defecate and urinate. A lot. What to do with all this excrement? They channel it into lined ponds, called manure lagoons.
In 2002, as these massive-scale livestock operations were spreading across rural America, corporate lobbyists quietly changed a farm conservation program to make them outfits eligible for funding – and to declare that manure lagoons could be paid for as a “conservation measure.”
How ironic, since these lagoons are notorious for leaking into groundwater, overflowing into nearby streams, and fouling the air for everyone downwind. The factory operations also are squeezing small, sustainable farmers out of business — so it’s doubly ironic that your and my tax dollars are being used to subsidize them.
Our nation’s environmental laws were based for years on the ethical precept that the polluter must pay. Now that’s been perverted to the unethical notion that we must subsidize the polluter.

Bush/McCain Cartoon

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20080214/lcrmlu080214.gif

ksagnostic, posts;
Hubbell’s screed was, despite his denial to the contrary with regards to race, both racist and sexist.

Deal with it loser!
I love it when I can so easily simply ‘push a button’ and you dance like a clown.

Gary Hubbell
February 9, 2008

“There is a great amount of interest in this year’s presidential elections, as everybody seems to recognize that our next president has to be a lot better than George Bush.

Four million Angry White Men are members of the National Rifle Association, and all of them will vote against Hillary Clinton, just as the great majority of them voted for George Bush.

Ksag – What I found ironic about this ranting was at the very beginning, he “recognize that our next president has to be a lot better than George Bush”, and then at the very end, pointed out that “Four million Angry White Men are members of the National Rifle Association, and all of them will vote against Hillary Clinton, just as the great majority of them voted for George Bush.” It seems to me that he is saying that those 4 mil. angry white men are dumbasses.

Hogs and cattle defecate and urinate

Not to mention flatulate. Molecule for molecule, methane is 30 times the greenhouse gas as CO2.

What is the difference between observing the ‘Angry White Man’ vote as opposed to observing the ‘African American Vote’, the ‘Female Vote’, the ‘Geriatric Vote’, the ‘Brown’ vote –as described by a few here-, or any other segmented vote?

Is it because it is White Males being segregated or grouped? If you are mad about that, why aren’t you mad about any other segment being grouped?

They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot SPOT
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

They took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see ‘em
Don’t it always seem to go,
That you don’t know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

Hey farmer, farmer
Put away that DDT
I don’t care about spots on my apples
But LEAVE me the birds and the bees
Please!
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
‘Til its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

Late last night
I heard the screen door slam
And a big yellow taxi
Took away my girl
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

I said
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
‘Til it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

:D

Or TDT has yet to learn to discuss any issues without blaming someone or assigning them to a hate group or show that they are some how bigoted louts.

Yeah lindainks55, I’m getting an education on the highbrow Liberal mind (cough.)

Wasn’t McCain a 2000 “alternative candidate”?

Oahu

mmmkay there TDT…hang your hat on your previous statement then as irony.

I saw nothing ironic about it, but an illogical projection based on a “jump to a conclusion.”

Did the State will keep doing elections at the exspence of tax payers until Segwick County says yes too them. They will keep billing you for not voting yes too a corrupt Casino in Wichita. Go figure. Herbert West III, west.herb@yahoo.com

I’m hoping me middle can get into WSU on a bowling scholarship. Lord knows he couldn’t do it on academics LOL. He’s a senior this year (if he makes it), and is a prett fair keggler.

ghotiphaze, good luck to your middle one, both in the schollie but more importantly, on graduation. :-)

Bowodin = Bowdoin. My apologies to any Polar Bear alums reading.

ghotiphaze, heart often wins over brainpower even in college. Not always, but often. Tell him to hang in and do his best.

The newest poll results, given by CNN are 49% Clinton, 42% Obama. If that translated into the March 4 race’s combined primary and caucus results, Clinton would only gain 14 delegates.

But Obama is up by 138 pledged delegates. Currently, Obama is polling to win 50% of Wisconsin to 39% for Clinton, which would give him a Obama a 15 net delegate gain. In Hawaii, Obama is going to win by at least a 60% to 35% margin. Feb 19 net gain for Obama 20 delegates. So that will put him up 158 elected delegates over Hillary.

The latest poll reported by CNN for Texas shows Hillary up 49% to 42%. After next week’s wins by Obama, this margin will shrink. In addition, Obama will run away from Hillary in the after-hours Texas caucus.

However, after Obama sweeps Wisconsin and Hawaii, and campaigns in Texas, the primary margin in Texas will shrink. Even if it were to remain stable at the current differential, which is unlikely, Obama will leave Hillary in the dust in the after-primary caucus. Bottom line: at best Hillary breaks even in Texas, but more likely Obama adds to his delegate count by 10 or more.

In Ohio, under fabulous conditions for Hillary, with a 55% to 35% win, which isn’t going to happen, Hillary would net-gain only 28 delegates. Assume the same for Pennsylvania, and that’s 32 net delegates.

But then she will at best beat Barack marginally in Vermont, Rhode Island, Kentucky and West Virginia, gaining no more than 20 delegates net, lose in Indiana, Puerto Rico, Wyoming and Montana, and get trounced in North Carolina Oregon, South Dakota, and Mississippi. Barack will get at least 40 delegates net in these latter states.

What’s happening in superdelegates? Since Super Tuesday, Barack has gained 12 new pledges, including 2 defecting previously-Hillary supporters.

Clinton could gain the upper hand if she could get the Michigan and Florida delegates seated, but this isn’t going to happen. The problem isn’t just that Michigan and Florida disqualified themselves by breaking the DNC rules, the problem is that large numbers of voters didn’t vote in either state, because they thought the two primaries wouldn’t count, and they played by the rules. In Michigan, Obama and John Edwards were not listed on the ballot. They each got ZERO votes. Chris Dodd and Mike Gravel, listed on the ballots got 3853 and 2853. The second placer was Dennis Kucinich, listed, with 21,708. Hillary, listed, got 328,151.

Those of you who would say, “Give Hillary those delegates,” aren’t thinking straight. How would it be possible that Barack and John Edwards, who placed #1 and #2 in Iowa, and #2 and #3 in New Hampshire, completely disappeared off the map in Michigan?

You can stick a fork in those cottage cheese thighs. They’re done.

MPS – I agree with several other posters here that they will do new primaries or even caucuses in FL and MI, and their delegates will count. Or maybe, they will only count half of them like the Republicans did. Also, Hillary has not given up, and she is a fighter. You just can’t count her out.

You’re correct MPS.

It is an indicator of an ‘inside job’. I’m not sure how the farmlady meant it.

I read that story just last month. I have a list of books that I’m reading again this year. The works of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is on the list.

“The House voted 223-23 to hold the two Bush aides in contempt of Congress.”

“And the chamber’s Republican minority staged a walkout before the vote, demanding that Democratic leaders vote instead on a revision of federal surveillance laws.

“We will not stand here and watch this floor be abused for pure political grandstanding at the expense of our national security,” Minority Leader John Boehner said to jeers from Democrats.”

“Three Republicans who did not take part in the walkout — including current presidential hopeful Ron Paul of Texas — supported the resolution, while one Democrat, Texas Rep. Henry Cuellar, opposed it.”

Atta boy Dr. Paul.

http://www.RonPaul2008.com

Steven Davis, the younger, after visiting U Rochester, applied and was accepted. She determined Colby was the better fit for her, and thus declined the admission offer at Rochester. A bit of her decision was tempered by the financial aid offer from both as well.

Yes, the WSU program shows promise and is good practice. I would encourage those whose needs are met at WSU to consider the same. There is just something about “going off to school” that cannot be replicated by attending a local institution. Not to discourage this, BTW, just an expression of opinion.

Max, many of the schools named in that article still utilize the SAT/ACT scores. Smith doesn’t; neither does Bowdoin. Colby, Harvard and Yale still utilize the standardized testing scores in the admissions process.

BTW, don’t know about how Smith does it; Bowdoin makes reporting the scores “optional”, and, if offered by the applicant, these are given consideration. As the younger looked at Bowdoin, enough at least to obtain an application, I will say that Bowdoin, at least, requires such thorough and detailed information on an applicant that I, for one, would rather just submit my scores with a “more standard” application.

The student at NIU who shot up the place was, yup, off of his “medication”!!! Notice a trend? These drugs do nothing but harm our society. How about taking the flucking Ding-Dong’s and Twinkie’s away from your “ADD” kid’s? Maybe if they weren’t hopped up on the processed sugar sh.it, like Beavis, you wouldn’t have to dope them up?!?! Possibly?

Max, assuming you were still commenting upon the USA Today article, note that the institutions involved are all private. There is no “government” social engineering imposed upon their admissions policies. Outside of overt discrimination in any form against any of the “protected classes”, each school is entitled to take the factors you delineate into consideration in its admission process. Right now, in the world of higher education, “while male” applicants are a minority. This is troublesome to many schools.

Based upon our family experience with a limited number of private institutions, the factors you reference are not considered, if at all, until it is determined that the student is otherwise qualified for admission; and then (speaking to only that about which I know) factors such as where the applicant is from and the economic condition of the family are considered as “tie breakers” in trying to achieve the diversity goal each school has for itself. Do I think that the fact we live in Kansas was a factor in the younger’s admission? Likely so, but on grades, ACT/SAT scores, etc., she was clearly at the median for the group admitted, given the statistics provided by the college concerning the Class of 2008.

Illinois, one of two states in the US that do NOT allow concealed carry by law abidinig people.

Only the lawbreakers can carry guns in Illinois and Wisconsin.

people that knew of his condition should have been watching him much more closely

HIPPA

TDT
Posted February 15, 2008 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

See how well that is working out for us?

TDT,

That wonderful spam blocker hard at work.

It’s just absurd how the Koncealed Karry Koalition imagines the four school shoot-em-ups *this week* would somehow have been made better by having more guns on the scene.

There are too many guns in America, readily available throug too many venues to too many people who have no business having a gun. Can we agree on that? At least?

I don’t want to take your guns. I’m sure you’re a responsible gun-owner and are sane and safe to live next door to. But any time I mention that I’d like a legal structure that makes it more difficult for crazy people to get firearms… you turn crazy on me!

But then I’m just guessing that his medication was for a mental illness. I just assume they wouldn’t mention that he stopped taking his blood pressure medication, since that would not be relevant.

A man walks into a bank to rob it. He has a 9mm with a total of 27 rounds in several magazines. He is a pretty decent shot and has pretty good courage.

Scenario 1:
The only other armed person in the bank is a 60 rent-a-cop.

Scenario 2:
There are an unknown number of people with firearms.

In which scenario is the robber most likely to proceed?

Now substitute the word Bank for school, pharmacy…

You get the picture.

60 year-old.

Interesting that the response time to the NIU shooting was reported to be 2 minutes.

And still, that wasn’t fast enough.

“Koncealed Karry Koalition”

“There are too many guns in America, readily available throug too many venues to too many people who have no business having a gun. Can we agree on that? At least?”

————-

You begin with KKK and then expect reasoned discussion?

Yea, Max. It’s true: when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

In the meantime, upon who are we to rely?

“Should we continue to “classify” people forever into “protected classes”?”

No. Just as soon as every group has equal rights.

With all of the racisdt, bigoted puke spew on here today, one would think there was a KKK convention in town LOL

Angry White Men = Angry Bigots

Think Archie Bunker on steroids!! :roll:

Ah, if the answer to the question is “more guns” then it is the wrong answer.

If the answer to the question is “no guns” it is still the wrong answer.

Neither banning guns nor arming everyone is going to prevent a V Tech or Northern Illinois or Omaha Mall situation.

It is what inside peoples heads that we have to worry about – not what they may or may not being carrying.

End of sermon.

“Treat everyone as they are, a citizen of the United States.”

A good start would be to grant the right of marriage to all people.

Then they could also have the right to divorce.

“GMC70″ –

I fully admit I am not in the mainstream with contemporay gun politics.

My experience has been that my views — rational and well-considered and steadfastly constiutional — simply don’t fit the stock boilerplat arguments of either side of the issue.

When the left proposes stricter laws, the right comesout with its “enforce the laws in the books!” rhetoric. When the laws start getting enforced, Gee! Gordon Libby and other gun nuts start advising to “aim for the heads” of people enforcing the laws.

Waco happened, remember, because George HW Bush sent ATF and the FBI out to enforce the law.

See where that got us.

Even though there are plenty of crazies on the roads, if they have a license they have probably past the drivers’ test and know they’re supposed to stay right of the yellow line and stop at a red light.

It doesn’t seem extremist to me to expect people who own and carry guns live up to some society standard of competence, responsibility, and sanity.

Ah, but you should see the hate mail I get from people who are, I guess, PRO-incompetence, PRO-irresponsibility, and PRO-insanity… just so they can keep their guns.

“If Hillary loses in TX, OH, and PA she’s history!

AmWay, you joining the bus tours? One is going east to OH/PA, the other south to TX. Would be nice to get warm down south!” MAX

MAX, if Hillary loses, I won. I’m done with the election. If these goofy -astards really think I crossed over because I’m now true blue socialist, the joke is on them. Me and the other republicans I saw smiling at the democrats caucus, have already switched back. It was fun helping decide the course of history for the socialist.

But it’s macht nichts to me which of the two liberals are elected at that point. Obama might keep me from dozing off on the couch, where McCain puts me right to sleep.

“At best, they are wishful thinking. At worst, they are an attempt to disarm the populace for more nefarious purposes. Neither is acceptable.”

There may be a few “wishful thinking” Democrats that think that they can legislate less violence by banning or severely restricting gun ownership.

They are wrong, just as wrong as those that think they can legislate morality.

I don’t know WHAT could have changed the situation at NIU. Maybe, truly, there was nothing that COULD have been done. The guy passed a background check, waiting periods (if there wasn’t one) would not have made a difference and CC most likely would have resulted in more chaos.

Perhaps the ONE thing that really could have made a difference is that the people that KNEW that he had gone off his medication should/could have been more direct in advising him to go back on his meds.

I don’t have the answers, but as I said, more guns or no guns is not the answer.

Yes of course, it was the lack of medication that allowed this to happen. At least that is what the experts will say. But the experts can not explain why someone hates himself and his fellow human being so badly that he wants to take out as many people as possible. It’s the height of selfish behavior.

This guy needed help but not the kind that if found in a pill. He needed to know that life is not about pursuing selfish wants but it is about developing a relationship with the Creator that teaches us humility, sacrifice and servitude to others.

Yes, guns are not the problem, but the lack of morals possessed by selfish mankind. Which is why we need to retain moral absolutes in our society. This guy probably rationalized the killing of dozens of people because it brought him pleasure. The wrong of killing someone was canceled out in his brain because of the pleasure of doing something he fanticized about.

Moral absolutes enforces the idea that all lives have value no matter how much pleasure ending another’s brings your way. All lives have value because they are given that value from a Creator. Remove the Creator from your own mind, remove the value.

Perhaps the ONE thing that really could have made a difference is that the people that KNEW that he had gone off his medication should/could have been more direct in advising him to go back on his meds. WSClark
———————-

There’s a solution. Government forcing medication on people. Forced diets will be next. Maybe we will have forced exercise too.

Forcing education. Forcing work. Forcing self-reliance. Naw, that’s going way too far.

“GMC70″ parrots –

“…more gun control laws are merely the illusion of “doing something.” They don’t work. They’ve never worked.”

Yeah, and all those laws against murder and bank robbery haven’t worked either, by your estimation. There still are murders and people still rob banks.

What an absurd argument you propose, “GMC70.”

All those laws against butt-raping altar boys hasn’t prevented priests butt-raping altar boys… so we should make it legal!!!!

There are consequences — potential and very real and tragic — to gun ownership. Society has a right to expect gun-owners to be responsible, competent, and sane.

Just about every time I mention that, I get e-mail and blog-flames from people out to defend the irresponsible, the incompetent, and the insane.

You guys may out-number me, but I’m pretty secure in the rightness of my position.

WSClark
Posted February 15, 2008 at 1:34 pm | Permalink
AmWay which Democratic caucus were you at? When I went, I certainly did not see any Republican wannabe Democrats.
————————————-

AmWay, didn’t you cover up your Elephant tatoo and take off your RNC hat?

If AmWay was in disguise, how would you know?

Yes the eyes. And AmWay was the only one standing in the right side of the room too.

Max,

Do the libs have a secret handshake?

“There’s a solution. Government forcing medication on people. Forced diets will be next. Maybe we will have forced exercise too.ererer” Max

Will there be a carbon check and calorie check when I buy a quarterpounder too?

“Do the libs have a secret handshake?”

No, but we do have a (not so) secret sign language for Republicans.

Give it up Clark/Capn. I will never reveal my personal information on this blog.

“were populated by true believers in the Democratic cause……………..”

PS: You are a funny person.

I thought secret meeting and secret handshakes were part of the Skull and Bones. Confusing parties again?

“I will never reveal my personal information on this blog.”

What personal information have I asked for, Oh Dim One?

I asked what caucus you ATTENDED, not your Social Security Number.

Christ……………………..

If I asked you where you bought your car would that be asking you to REVEALING PERSONAL INFORMATION?

And, AmWay, I am not Capn’ – I am much better looking.

MonkeyHawk

“You guys may out-number me, but I’m pretty securein the rightness of my position.”
”

careful MonkeyHawk, Bush the idiot makes the same argument :)

Really, I am not flaming you. i just saw that statment and my inner child couldn;thelp but laugh. It was meant as amusement, nothing else.

IF you all want to know what “base” Max is running on, please read the following >>>>

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=John_Birch_Society

Oh, and Sol… What else do you CALL Angry White Men, if not bigots??

I didn’t know you were a racist chas. Why do you hate white men?

SOL — WHERE did I say I hate white men??

SHOW it, you ninny…. Stop flaming!!

http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/02/open-thread-215/#comment-294527

you ninny

Should I be offended by a racist bigot calling me names?

Naaaah.

“Hank Price” asks –

“If you and I are eating pancakes in a resturant and some fool comes in and starts executing people should I out of respect for your feelings about guns just keep mine concealed and hope along with you that he’ll quit killing people before he gets to us?”

Why bother concealing your weapon, “Hank Price?”

That hypothetical crazy guy who comes into the pancake house and systematically starts executing people might have caught a glimpse of your weapan (were it not *concealed*) and decided to shoot up another pancake house down the road.

Where is your *concealing* your weapon work out for my benefit?

And if the thirty or so other people in the pancake house are like you, and hiding their firepower, and come up shooting at anyone who’s shooting… just how does that make me safer?

You’re out there to protect me from attacks when I’m eating pancakes? Fine. Let everyone in the place know you’re packin’ heat on your hip. (And pass me the blueberry syrup)

Even with you treating me to pancakes, your concealed weapon did nothing to scare off the guy who’s come into the pancake house and started executing people.

Thanks, by the way, for the breakfast. But I’m more of a bacon and eggs guy.

Where do you find ME to be a racist, or a bigot??? I think you will find ALL of my posts here to be the exact OPPOSITE of racist or bigoted comments

Unless of course we are talking about white men.

bigot. racist. Shame on you chas.

I’ve already pointed it out several times chas.

The first step chas, is admiting you have a problem…

Popup,

I thought trolling and nik-switching were what the cons do?

Clark,

No need for name calling. I didn’t degrade your posts.

“No need for name calling. I didn’t degrade your posts.”

One, you implied that Capn’ and I were one and the same, something that the Capn’ should be rightfully offended by.

Two, you suggested that I wanted your personal information – nothing could be further from the truth.

I asked an innocent question – what Democratic caucus did you attend? Why is that wrong of me to ask?

American Way
Posted February 15, 2008 at 1:46 pm | Permalink
Max,

Do the libs have a secret handshake?
—————————————–

The women kiss.

The men hug.

Never the twain shall meet, they are gay, remember?

Heck AmWay, I didn’t bring tears with my caucus speech, I brought applause!

“Hope for this and that now!” type stuff, promising to fix all the worlds problems immediately is what Obama does.

Just repeating his same BS in most passionate fashion wasn’t hard to pull-off.

On to Texas now!

The party of Chas: http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

The gun-banners feign support for open carry, only so they can see who they need to disarm.

Concealed carry is better then open carry for several reasons:

1. Makes it more difficult for someone to steal your gun. If they can’t see it, they can’t steal it.

2. Keeps gun-banners from going into a hysterical white-faced panic attack.

3. Most importantly, keeps the criminals from knowing who does or does not have a gun. A criminal can’t tell for sure if any of those 50 people in the pancake house have a gun to defend themselves. Does he take a chance? THE Deterrent power is stronger when you can’t see and don’t know who is or isn’t carrying.

why would they steal it, Max, they have one of their own and it’s better than yours. They didn’t go through the proper channels so aren’t constrained by the limitations you are.

Knowing the gun is there makes me feel more secure than wondering which crazy is hiding it, and why.

He’s criminal, for crissake. Breathing is a gamble. He knows there’s a 50/50 chance that some crazy has gun in there. Chances are if there is one, they’re too CS to use it, couldn’t hit the far wall of the room much less a moving target, or atleast only suffer a superficial wound that’ll just tick him off.

Remember the guy shot in the face with a .25 by his girfriend from across the table in a Wichita restaurant, and then commenced to kick the snot out of her?

Most murder cases are not murder AND intentional suicide cases.

I don’t know of any way to keep people from blowing themselves up, if that’s what they want to do.

“Since the NIU, Omaha Mall and V Tech killers all committed suicide after shooting, what was the deterrent factor?”

Well, Clark, They wanted to kill people first. There purpose wasn’t to commit suicide, it was to kill as many people as they could and then commit suicide. Again, I ask, have you noticed the crazies are smart enough to pick gun free zones?

“They were planning to DIE anyway.”

Irrelevant! They wanted to kill first.

“It would not have made a wits difference if it was a no carry zone or a room full of gun toters.”

This statement of yours is statistically false! And, on the other side of the coin, many, many crimes are stopped by citizens carrying handguns!

“And, on the other side of the coin, many, many crimes are stopped by citizens carrying handguns!”

Show me the stats, Mr. Price.

Hey ghotifaze,

You put me in a room of honest people and crooks that are armed and I’ll bey you that theirs isn’t better than mine!

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/ultracarry/

Hank, you ask a fair question above. Now, that question wasn’t addressed to me, but if you will humor me a bit, I’ll give you my response.

I don’t know that having one or two CCH folks in the auditorium would have made a difference in the NIU situation yesterday. My best guess is that while it might have, it might not have. Not a good solid answer there at all.

Here’s where I’m coming from. From reports, the perp kicked a side door to the auditorium open and came in firing a shotgun. His initial shots were into the front row or two. Therefore, to make a difference the CCH folks you posit would need, IMO, to be seated further back. Also from reports, there was immediate panic, with the students trying to flee. Such a situation, again IMO, makes it difficult for anyone to get a clear shot at the perp, if in range. The panic, it would seem to me, could also make it difficult for the CCH person to get his/her weapon out without being bumped by students trying to flee.

On the larger question of whether college campuses should be “gun free zones”, I’m still holding the position that they should be. That’s not set in concrete, but that’s how I feel now.

Hank, I hope its become apparent that I’m not against CC. I will say that I don’t think the “right” to be a CC permit holder is guaranteed under the Second Amendment (see prior postings and discussions). I agree that the Second Amendment recognizes the right of an individual to “keep and bear arms”, but such right is not absolute. I personally take the position that having a CC permit is a privilege, a reasonable restriction upon the exercise of the right granted by the Second Amendment.

Kansas Residents with a State Concealed Carry License insures those individuals;
1. Have NO felony Convictions.
2. Have NEVER been convicted of domestic violence.
3. Have NO history of mental illness.
4. Have passed a background check and have their fingerprints on file with the KBI.
5. Have passed mandatory STATE training in both the use of a firearm and the applicable law.
Very good people to have around. I shop and eat where there are NO ‘No-Gun’ signs!

Fortunately the CC laws dont require business owners to automatically allow weapons on their premises… That would be a reverse of the “nanny state” mentality so many of those who support CC like to belittle!! Things get curiouser and curiouser…

Wow… Religious Law in full force….

Saudi Arabian woman sentenced to be beheaded for supposedly practicing Witchcraft!! Appeals have been made to Bush’s buddy, the King!!

Just another good reason to be happy we dont have a theocracy here!!

Mr. Price, I do not go to NRA websites, they are a bunch of loons that think that “more guns” is the answer to every question.

Back in the day, the used to be a decent organization that truly cared about gun owners and gun safety.

Now they are just a bunch of gun nuts that think EVERY restriction on weaponry is an attempt to curtail their Second Amendment rights.

If they had their way, every American would be able to buy an ICBM to shoot at their neighbor.

I trust the NRA like I trust Republicans in general – no further than I can throw them.

“The Anti-Gun Crowd have made up their minds and will not ever be swayed by facts, no matter how well documented. Same goes with the Dem/Lib Socialists.”

Blow it out your fleetwood.

Christ.

The gunners are funny people. They just don’t get the fact that most Americans just really don’t give a good god damn about them and their guns.

(Pleading)

I don’t care. It doesn’t make a damned bit of difference to me. Go down to Bullet Stop. Buy yourself a .357 Magnum. Buy a thousand rounds of ammunition. Practice on the range once or twice or even three times a week. Get your CCP. Carry your precious little gun with you wherever you go. Practice shooting at pop cans. Subscribe to Guns and Ammo mag and wax on, wax off to the centerfold every night.

I don’t care.

If it makes you FEEL better, do it. I really, really, truly don’t care. I don’t want to take your gun away from you.

Actually, I never even want to SEE you, nonetheless get close enough to take your gun from you.

Christ.

Clark… This will tell you why they keep on with their Mantra…. >>>>

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=John_Birch_Society

WS CLARK

Most of the CC folks are just so full of themselves — they think that EVERYONE is out to get them and steal their dog — most people don’t care — your post @ 5 PM was spot on –

RD – you just hit the biggest problem – just how do we define things.

The gay marriage proponets are funny people. They just don’t get the fact that most Americans just really don’t give a good god damn about them and their gay marriage plans.

I don’t care. It doesn’t make a damned bit of difference to me. Go down to Church. Get married. Get divorced. Get married all you want. Subscribe to Gay Times mag and wax on, wax off to the centerfold every night.

I don’t care.

If it makes you FEEL better, do it. I really, really, truly don’t care. I don’t want to take your gay marriages from you.

Actually, I never even want to SEE you, nonetheless get close enough to take your gay marriage from you.

“3. Have NO history of mental illness.”

Just a thought, but perhaps it would be beneficial for an applicant to have to produce medical records or similar information.

Those taking certain anti-psychotic drugs would be disqualified.

I don’t really know, but those on anti-psychotic drugs seem to go off the deep end if they abruptly stop taking their meds.

There should also be some discretion, in my view, for a gun dealer to refuse to sell a gun to someone that seems to be disturbed, just as a bartender can refuse service to someone that is intoxicated.

Just some thoughts – not trying to take guns away from people.

RD,
It has in the past required a legal proceeding, a legal commitment, for it to show up in the background checks done by the state CCL licensing agencies, ie the Kansas Attorney Generals Office.
After the campus shooting at Virginia Tech measures are, to my understanding, in place to have access to an applicants medical history for that determination as well.
The licensing authority has the latitude of determination based on diagnosis.

I don’t vote against gay marriage Clark.

I truly do NOT care.

I don’t see how gay marriage, straight marriage, crooked marriage, or any other kind of marriage is ANY business of Government at all. Simply remove ALL regulations regarding marriage from Government, and let people be free.

“I don’t vote against gay marriage Clark.”

How did you vote on the Marriage Amendment in Kansas, Max?

“Note my post above Clark. Guess you missed it:”

I don’t go to NRA websites, they BORE me.

…those who have been adjudicated by a court as mentally defective or as a danger to themselves or others.”

That takes care of some, but only a small percentage. What about the others that have not been deemed mentally defective or a danger because the court hasn’t been involved?

From the KS Attorney Generals website on CCL.
? No person ordered by the court to receive
treatment for mental illness or alcohol/
substance abuse is allowed to have a concealed
carry license unless the person has a certificate
issued by a court, at least five (5) years prior to
the date of application, restoring the applicant’s
ability to possess a firearm;
So that includes all those who even voluntarily undergo treatment as a result of any court action including DUI.

Earlier, somebody said Florida and Michigan will have second primaries or caucuses. The Florida legislature will not approve another primary, because the two legislative chambers are Republican-majority and the governor is Republican. They WANT Hillary to be the DNC candidate.

In Michigan, the Senate is Republican majority, so they can block a primary redo.

Florida Democratic Party leaders said last week they don’t intend to hold another election. Carl Levin says he doesn’t see a caucus for Michigan, and Michigan governor Jennifer Grantholm is a Hillary supporter. The game plan is to wangle seating of the Michigan and Florida “delegates” in Denver, but that would require seated delegates to vote for this. Since they are going to be majority Obama supporters, that’s not going to happen.

The DNC requested candidates to withdraw their names from the Michigan primary ballot. Obama, Edwards and Dodd did so. Hillary, too smart by half, declined. Had she complied, the primary would have been reset to Super Tuesday. She shot herself in the foot. Or maybe Bill and her campaign director gave her really bad advice.

Now, Hillary is getting less than less than half the campaign donations of Obama. She’s sent Chelsea to capture young voters, and that’s done nothing. White males would rather have Barack. White females are giving up on Hillary. Hispanics are giving up on Hillary. Blacks are giving up on Hillary. Young people who previously didn’t vote, are in the voting booths supporting Obama.

The Clinton years proved one thing: they were great for the Clintons. Not so much for democrats, who saw the repubs take over Congress during Bill’s “leadership” reign.

Bill had some amazing charismatic gifts. Hillary doesn’t possess these gifts. There was a nice quote in the NYT:

“Obama is just creaming Hillary. You know, all these primaries, you know. And Hillary says it’s not fair, because they’re being held in February, and February is Black History Month. And unfortunately for Hillary, there’s no White Bitch Month.”

MPS and his conservative views are well known.

As such, his take on what Democrats should do with our nomination process is neither wanted nor welcome.

That he, like most Republicans, favors Obama, only reaffirms my take that Obama must not be the nominee.

Some might think that the inmates done took over the asylum, with all this gun trash talk, and the posts about the Angry White Male LOL

JR said to MAX (Feb. 13) >>>>

“With the possible exception of Eisenhower. And I’m sure you and your sort would have called him a peacenik socialist.”

JR, in fact, Max’s sort DID call Ike a peacenik socialist… Google “John Birch Society” It’s all there….

See, JR, Max is a closet John Bircher (without the closet)

Predatory Lenders’ Partner in Crime
How the Bush Administration Stopped the States From Stepping In to Help Consumers

By Eliot Spitzer
Thursday, February 14, 2008; A25

Several years ago, state attorneys general and others involved in consumer protection began to notice a marked increase in a range of predatory lending practices by mortgage lenders. Some were misrepresenting the terms of loans, making loans without regard to consumers’ ability to repay, making loans with deceptive “teaser” rates that later ballooned astronomically, packing loans with undisclosed charges and fees, or even paying illegal kickbacks. These and other practices, we noticed, were having a devastating effect on home buyers. In addition, the widespread nature of these practices, if left unchecked, threatened our financial markets.

Even though predatory lending was becoming a national problem, the Bush administration looked the other way and did nothing to protect American homeowners. In fact, the government chose instead to align itself with the banks that were victimizing consumers.

Predatory lending was widely understood to present a looming national crisis. This threat was so clear that as New York attorney general, I joined with colleagues in the other 49 states in attempting to fill the void left by the federal government. Individually, and together, state attorneys general of both parties brought litigation or entered into settlements with many subprime lenders that were engaged in predatory lending practices. Several state legislatures, including New York’s, enacted laws aimed at curbing such practices.

What did the Bush administration do in response? Did it reverse course and decide to take action to halt this burgeoning scourge? As Americans are now painfully aware, with hundreds of thousands of homeowners facing foreclosure and our markets reeling, the answer is a resounding no.

Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye.

Let me explain: The administration accomplished this feat through an obscure federal agency called the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC). The OCC has been in existence since the Civil War. Its mission is to ensure the fiscal soundness of national banks. For 140 years, the OCC examined the books of national banks to make sure they were balanced, an important but uncontroversial function. But a few years ago, for the first time in its history, the OCC was used as a tool against consumers.

In 2003, during the height of the predatory lending crisis, the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative. The OCC also promulgated new rules that prevented states from enforcing any of their own consumer protection laws against national banks. The federal government’s actions were so egregious and so unprecedented that all 50 state attorneys general, and all 50 state banking superintendents, actively fought the new rules.

But the unanimous opposition of the 50 states did not deter, or even slow, the Bush administration in its goal of protecting the banks. In fact, when my office opened an investigation of possible discrimination in mortgage lending by a number of banks, the OCC filed a federal lawsuit to stop the investigation.

Throughout our battles with the OCC and the banks, the mantra of the banks and their defenders was that efforts to curb predatory lending would deny access to credit to the very consumers the states were trying to protect. But the curbs we sought on predatory and unfair lending would have in no way jeopardized access to the legitimate credit market for appropriately priced loans. Instead, they would have stopped the scourge of predatory lending practices that have resulted in countless thousands of consumers losing their homes and put our economy in a precarious position.

When history tells the story of the subprime lending crisis and recounts its devastating effects on the lives of so many innocent homeowners, the Bush administration will not be judged favorably. The tale is still unfolding, but when the dust settles, it will be judged as a willing accomplice to the lenders who went to any lengths in their quest for profits. So willing, in fact, that it used the power of the federal government in an unprecedented assault on state legislatures, as well as on state attorneys general and anyone else on the side of consumers.

The writer is governor of New York.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021302783_pf.html

Jim Woodward: Interesting post save one point…item 2. With our universal insurance all medical care is in the hands of free market private enterprise, all doctors are self employed and are the only one who make treatment decsisions, not some insurance company/person/bureaucrat, all health services are provided by the private sector, and it reduces costs. Of the top 40 nations who support the free market capitalist system and representative government only 3 haven’t got a universal insurance scheme. Mexico, Turkey and the US. Get over the disinformation about single payer insurance, it diminishes your damn good post about health care, ie, one is responsible for their own health. I’m 71 and still pump iron with lighter weights though, the same number of sets but less reps. PS: My doctor lives on the Main St. of our town and plays short stop for the Local Pubs’ softball team. Not an enclave by a long shot.

It is not for the US Government to pay doctors the SAME salary. It is for the individual doctor to charge for his/her services as he deems fit.

Hi. I’m new here. I am considering Kansas as a place to buy rural property. I have combed through much information and although your winters are a little too harsh for my ideal, it does meet much of my criteria for establishing residence. Toward that endeavor, I am listening, watching, and reading some of the information available via the internet
about Kansas.

Are any of the posters here retired and made Kansas your primary residence? Thanx

Well hey there “Gort” and barrada nikto!

If you are looking for a place where the Earth Stands Still, Kansas would be the place.

Interesting information from poster NN. I am amazed at the varying views expressed by our friends to the north. I presently winter in Scottsdale, Arizona. I am particular to this area due to my attraction to golfing. There are enough differing opportunities for my habit in and around the Phoenix area to keep me busy for the winter months.
Golfing is most of my life. Residing in the Cave Creek area, I can experience many differing activities within an easy driving distance.

It is interesting, I regularly go to the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale. While waiting for appointments I have many other snowbirds. Or course, it is always of special interest to meet people from far away lands. I am always fishing for golfing partners, and “where are you from?” is always a conversation starter. I golf with many Canadians I have met in the Phoenix area during the winter months. Everytime I have an appointment at the clinic – I meet Canadians who are here for the treatment.

It is sad, that the seniors from Canada report a very different picture of their medical treatment back home. They are seeking treatment at the Mayo Clinic because of various reasons (cancer being a big one that I’m familiar with). But I only get to meet them – because they are seeking treatment not available back home. These people provide a very different picture of the healthcare in Canada than protrayed here. If you are sitting in the waiting area, and making conversation, an expected question must be, why are they coming here for treatment?

Just an observation.

Chas,

Your ignorance of firearms is showing again.

If you knew anything about firearms safety, you would see huge problems with that photo of Mayor Nagin and his Chief of Police playing with guns.

Mr. Chas you say Kansas will be your primary residence. Is that because you are presently residing in Kansas, and that is your only option?
Or are you also looking? Thanx

Max, I doubt seriously that the guns were even loaded… You ever hear of PR photo ops??

Geez, chill man!!

So “Gort” you mean they had money to travel AND money to afford uninsured access to US health care?

Did they STAY in the US? Or…did they use their wealth to purchase care here and then return home.

Now me, I’m not wealthy OR impatient. Canada is looking pretty good to me as a place to live.

Oh, but I forgot… John Birchers are notoriously opposed to entertainment — especially if it is all in good fun, and makes people feel better!! I mean, look at all of the instances where the JBS urges books, movies, and TV shows to be banned!! LOL

Gort, if you want some Liberal opinions on Kansas, that’s mostly what you will find here.

Types like JR who complain about American healthcare on this blog 12 hours a day, yet they do nothing for themselves or their own children to get out and find a job to EARN money and get a good health insurance policy from their employer – or be able to afford one on their own.

Lotsa open places in KS and beautiful land if you want to get away from it all. If I was retiring now, I’d be lookin at a state with no state income tax or at least a lower tax structure.

The Socialist Libs here in KS, if they get their way, will drive taxes through the roof and run businesses, what little that is left here, into the ground.

Very hypocritical of Mayor Nagin to be flashing around his new guns, when you recall how he confiscated hundreds of firearms from his own citizens in New Orleans and has yet to return the firearms to the lawful owners.

Gun confiscation in New Orleans. Where next?

And that is my contribution to our nightly puppet show from James.

Note how he cannot keep his posters straight. He attributes a post from me to Chas.

And this regular spiel from a welfare head case who HAS his care paid for.

Sometimes it is so easy….

JR, once again you are being paranoid that other posters are me.

I know you do it just to taunt me, no one can be that stupid or gullible as you are to believe I spend as much time as you do on this blog with all your mental flailing about.

Mr JR, I am sorry, I attributed a post to Mr. Chas which should have been attributed to you. Sorry about that.

JR I dont want to go there again tonite… I only find it amusing that Regular shows up out of nowhere…. and puts in his two cents on Ray Nagin… When it is obvious that Nagin and the Philadelphia officer are “clowning” around for the sake of the cameras!! Such a paltry attempt at flaming on Nagin (a Black Mayor, of a predominantly Black southern City) —

And before you clowns even go there, New Orleans has been called “Chocolate City” for YEARS before Ray Nagin was ever the Mayor there… AND, New Orleans has been corrupt for most of its entire existence… And I doubt seriously if it has anything to do with petty political differences between parties… What a hoot!!

Mr. Chas, no most people do not talk about specific dollars. It would be rude to ask about wealth of finacines. Most of the people I met were sitting and waiting for treatments they said they could not get quickly back home. Many were chemo treatments for Lymphoma. Others were bone marrow. There are a lot of follow-up appointments associated with these.
Also many were there for kidney dialysis.

Mr Chas you posted this:

Chas.
Posted February 15, 2008 at 11:04 pm | Permalink
Gort, what the hell are you talking about Scottsdale and Cancer centers??? I havent said anything about that!!

I was just making an observation on NN’s post.

Mr Max, it takes me awhile to read all these posts.

I was not really concerned with the politics of Kansas. Only is so far as they are one of the most conservative states in the union.

This is important to me in that they do not tax retired pay from various sources and are considering (or did) excluding my social security from state income tax.

This makes Kansas a very attractive state financially.

But there are other important factors I need to consider as well. Thanx

Mr Chas, but those people, and yourself, did not leave your own country for treatment?

I might add that the people I met at the Mayo Clinic from Canada came for the quality of the treatment as well as getting it in life saving timeliness. I don’t know anyone who has ventured to Canada for treatment. But that might just be a matter of circumstances.

No Mr Chas, I don’t know anyone I associate with that have problems crossing state lines for medical treatment.

Well, maybe you dont know such folks, Gort, but I DO… happens all the time!! It can make getting cancer treatments rather difficult for some folks who need them most… Very sad..

Kansas can be REAL lousy for golf… too darned much wind in many places…

Gort,

Chas just won’t stand still for a day without personally attacking someone on this blog.

I know a Doctor in the Phoenix area who does much business with Canadians. If healthcare is so great there, I don’t know why they don’t stay in their own country for healthcare.

Go for it JR… And good luck!!

Mr. Max, I wasn’t trying to start a personal attack. If I posted something offensive to you or the other posters here I apologize.

Oh no Gort,

You didn’t say anything offensive. It’s the Left Wing here that over reacts to everything and can’t carry on a normal conversation.

But keep going. Maybe someone here can answer your questions.

I don’t plan on retiring in KS for sure. As for illegal immigrants, the current Governor is making Kansas a safe haven for illegal immigrants. Illegals get in-state tuition rates here for example.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kansas illegal immigrant growth exceed Arizona even, as nearby states like Oklahoma pass laws to crack down on illegals.

Mr. Max, the illegal’s are a big part of driving this move for us. But I have to tell you that AZ is cracking down. They have enacted laws going after the employers. Our lawn service costs have gone up, and we are seeing people other than hispanic doing the mowing in our community. But also the crop picking to include the current orange harvest are affected. This is a good thing, but our biggest problem is not the hispanics. It’s the growing other minorities causing the problems in AZ. The crack down on illegals is really having an effect. I don’t know if they are going back south or elsewhere.

Why on earth would you have a problem living near, or around minorities?? That doesnt make a lick of sense, Gort…

Max writes >>>>

“Illegals get in-state tuition rates here for example.”

Now dont lie Max… You know that it is only the children of illegals, who were BORN here who get in-state tuition… Geez… Not nice to lie to strangers!! Of course, I am sure that Gort knows that, since that law is the same ANYWHERE in the country… What a liar, Max!! Bad Max!! Bad!!

Max, you DO know that the children BORN here who have illegal parents, are CITIZENS by birth, dont you Max??

And the lil illegals they bring with them are getting in-state tuition rates Chas.

Those born in yes, duh, are US citizens.

It’s the junior wetbacks who are getting many of the same government benefits as citizens.

Say Gort, why would you want to come to Kansas to retire anyway?

You have a winter place in AZ. You could have a summer place in the moutains or near a lake or ocean. KS is pretty flat and dull.

Mr Max, I may have answered your first question earlier. As far as the Kansas urban areas, we are not interested. We are country people wanting a rural setting. Are you in one of those towns or in the country? Any suggestions on an area. We prefer the southern half of the state, to SW. Missouri pecans grow in areas south!

Don’t mind the arm flailing libs Gort. Kansas is a red state.

Mr. Chas. That statistics are available from the federal government websites. Do you need me to provide them for you? The facts are at the FBI and justice sites. I hope I didn’t misquote them from the sources. But you can buy property based upon them.

It isn’t anything personal nor racial. I have friends from many backgrounds. I even have black friend who live in white communities for the same reasons. It is our choice on living in a safe community. Heck, even blacks are outraged at the black statistics.

Let me know a link to Kansas rural properties if you happen acrost one. Thanx

Gort,

For reasons that are obvious after seeing posts from JR and Chas, I will not confirm my exact location on a public blog.

Since crime is a big factor, this link has some good info on crime rates by state:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/US_States_Rate_Ranking.html

That must be a racial website Mr. Max, judging by the comments of others here.

http://www.city-data.com/top2/c11.html

Interesting stat on Gay populations.

Note that most of the heavily populated gay cities still have penetration rates of 1 to 3% of the population.

http://www.ksag.org/content/page/id/90

Above is a link to concealed carry in KS Gort. At least you can carry here, like you do in AZ.

Your AZ permit IS accepted in KS. And vice versa.

http://www.ksag.org/content/page/id/90

Ooops, meant to post this link:

http://usacarry.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=258&Itemid=50

Global Warming, The American Bison, Cattle, PETA and Al Gore . . .

“They” say that this thing called “global warming” is caused by too many cows roaming the prairies and that we contribute to this alleged warming by eating these roaming cows. I suppose we should be eating more grass. I remember, not too long ago in grade school (actually it was really longer than one might think), reading about vast herds of American Bison that totaled in the millions. It was said that some herds took days to walk by a landmark. One source says, “No one knows how many bison there were, but the naturalist, Ernest Thompson Seton, estimated their numbers at sixty million when Columbus landed “ (Google) that would be 1492 A.D. or C.E. for those of you that have been home schooled. Now that is what I call a real Texas-sized herd of livestock. Plus, the American Bison is the largest land animal found in North America. However, the Bison is a much leaner cut of meat than the lowly cow, i.e., Black Angus, Hereford, Santa Gertrudis, etc. Therefore, we should be eating more Bison than Bovine.

Anyway, back to the point and my question, why are we just now becoming aware of this “warming thing” when the earth should have become a giant ball of fire with 60,000,000 Bison roaming, eating and passing plenty of methane gas about 400 years ago?

Perhaps our Congress should form just one more feckless Sub-Committee to investigate which animal creates more methane, the cow or the Bison, and why the earth didn’t catch fire in 1492. Moreover, the Census Bureau should get a handle on exactly how many cows and Bison are here legally. But then that would be asking for a lot of bull and possibly infringing on the rights of the bovine herds. . . and lately that is all we have heard our of our nation’s capitol, i.e., Bull.

I enjoyed listening to Senator Inhofe’s (Oklahoma) speech (10/26/2007) on the Senate Floor about global warming, Al Gore and his “Inconvenient Truth” and other folklore of the day (myths dujor). I had never before realized that we had so many rocket scientists in Hollywood but then I remembered that they only pretend to be scientists and without a script to read, or to be read to them, publicists, or rehab, they have no real thoughts of their own. Just hand them a prepared script and they will tell you all the script says even though they may not have a clue about which they speak.

I particularly liked the part in Senator Inhofe’s speech about anthropogenic gases. All I could think of was new global warming legislation regulating when people could fart or break wind for the more genteel set. If we do have Al Goreistic Legislation about Anthropogenic Accountability then I suppose those people whose last names begin with A to M could fart on even days and the remainder on odd days. However, we will need an oversight committee, a special prosecutor, and frequent hearings, accusations and investigations to ensure that all are doing “their thing on a timely basis” to keep the planet a cooler place to live.

Old Buffalo Head (Al Gore) did not realize that when Christopher Columbus landed somewhere in the western hemisphere that there were 60,000,000 North American Bison roaming the plains. The Bison is the largest land animal in North America and I am guessing, but have no scientific data to support my speculation, that the Bison puts out a voluminous quantity of methane gas on a daily basis and this part of the hemisphere would have been too hot to step foot on. If so, then Columbus would have found a new Saharan Desert right here.

The arguments 30 to 35 years ago were about a new ice age and global cooling and now we are talking about global warming and how much man contributes to warming as compared to the depth of linoleum in relationship to the height of a 50-story building.

The scary part is that our young children are being brainwashed about this issue. I remember the “Duck and Cover” of the early 1950s and that was scary then. We had no idea if we would even be around the next day. The same applies for the scare tactics of today except today it is probably more myth than it is science. I can’t even watch the Weather Channel without a monologue about the “obvious effects” of global warming. I suppose Will Rogers was more of a meteorologist than Dr. Heidi Cullen (bones) is since he was able to say about Oklahoma, “If you don’t like the weather here, just wait 15 minutes and it will change.”

Pass the Filet Mignon or a slice of Bison please . . . and the ketchup.

Did you ever notice that a statue of Al Gore would closely resemble that of Chairman Mao?

Gort:I gotta wonder if the folks in Arizona came for the treatment or were getting treatment while on their annual southern exodus, for surely the treatment is available in Canada or the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, Roswell in Buffalo etc., etc., all of which area heck of a lot closer. But then the whole world goes to the Mayo clinic and other fine health care facilities in the States. The insurance system offers timely care, not on demand/elective, but if a procedure is overbooked in one area you are sent to another jusrisdiction that has the shortest waiting time. Rarely, that can be in the US if necessary and the insurance system covers it. Many smaller communities get treatment from US hospitals closest to them if needed and those institutions count on the Canadian clients as part of their business plan. Remember, we are talking insurance here, not care. Nobody quibbles about the quality of US health care. On the other hand folks do come north for care that is specialized as well, like Al Gore did for his family. 35 million people interacting with 13 different health insruance plans are bound to produce glitches. Each province and territory has it’s own plan (it is NOT a national plan) and no two are exactly alike. Seemingly, British Columbia handles Cancer better than Ontario. Nobody claims we are better off it is just that you won’t go broke and everyone is covered through the premiums we all pay. It isn’t free, and there is no two tier plan whereby the rich get better, more promt care. Magic it ain’t but 92% of Canadians are happy and it is the third rail of politics hereabout, no one dares touche it. Im’ not suggesting a sense of superiority, my comment was to correct the implications of government intervention in the practise of health insurance previously posted.