WE Blog

Looks like bush is getting real progress in Iraq. Another EEO in Baghdad.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080131/wl_nm/iraq_dc_1

At least the Senate is trying to spread the money around to the people that need it most. Don’t envy Roberts if he is an obstructionist preventing the Seniors, very poor and enemployed from getting a little slice of the pie!

Max (1/31/08):”Ks,

“Any candidate who has as primary objectives:

“Redistribution of wealth
“Expansion of Social Government programs

“…is a Socialist.”

This confirms that your view is pretty much what I said it was. Let me be clear on my perspective on this. Your viewpoint is the view of a fanatic. By your definition, for example, Pat Roberts is a socialist. The fact that such a statement reveals more about your inclusive definition of socialist and restrictive definition of non-socialist than it does any factual information. It is also clear that, under your definition, you not only live in a socialist country already, most of the people in this country are socialists.

“The top 50% of taxpayers already pay 97% of the total Federal individual income tax. Yet Clinton and Obama want them to pay more. McCain says he wants to make the Bush tax cuts permanent, but he voted against them – twice.”

Horrors (shudder)! Of course, the top 5% of tax payers also pay more in absolute terms than the bottom 95% (60% to 40%). The top 10% pays 70% to 30%, and the top 80% pays 86% to 14%. By the time we get to the top 50%, not only do they pay 97% of the taxes, they make 87% of the income. They have vastly more income to pay taxes on, so of course they are going to contribute more money in income taxes.

BTW, the website that I have used probably has a point of view more similar to Max’s than my own. On the other hand, Max is pretty out there even among fiscal conservatives.

This is a problem in your mind and the minds of people like you. The idea that wealth redistribution is such a huge evil. The fact of the matter is, the people who pay more income taxes are people who have more income to tax, and also people who can afford a greater share of their income being taken. That combination accounts for the discrepency. What would you prefer Max, that the bottom 50% pay 13% of the income taxes (which would be proportional)? That would be absurd and cruel. The bottom 50% could not afford that. By the way, that is actually a straw man to a certain extent, because as I recall the income tax proposal Max has proposed on this blog would not really do that (he would also exempt the poorest from paying income tax at all). In the end, however, I think Max’s tax proposal is a petty solution in search of a problem. I just don’t get worked up about this wealth redistribution issue like Max does. The poor are hardly living high on the hog at the expense of the rich. I don’t think the 97% verses 3% is all that grossly unfair (and yes, I am in the upper 50%).

“ational Healthcare is proposed by both Clinton and Obama at a time when this country is facing:

“9 Trillion+ in National Debt

“ocial Security and Medicare Fiscal Crisis with $40 Trillion+ in unfunded obligations

“nd Clinton/Obama have not offerred any solutions for either of these two enormous problems facing our nation.”

To be fair, who has (and I already can anticipate Sol the Ron Paul evangelist jumping in with Ron Paul does!-let me just say, I think Ron Paul is a nitwit, and I thought he was a nitwit when he first ran for the presidency)? The healthcare crisis, however, is a legitimate crisis. I think leaving the situation as it currently is is untenable. However, the question of “how will you pay for this?” is fair. Max, I am more of a fiscal conservative than you may think I am (but our priorities are very very different). I think there is a difference between what can verses what “should” be done. However, if the idea that those who can pay for it will pay for it (sort of like income taxes), a healthcare program won’t be the budgetary drain that some think it may be. However, there is a budgetary crisis facing this country, and the aging population of this country is a looming issue (The AARP is the most dangerous lobbying firm in America).

Which brings us to John McCain. He was right the first time. Cut and control spending, but maintain revenue. One of the reasons why Republicans have caused significant financial crises not only in the federal government, but in a number of states as well, is because one of their priorities is popular (cutting taxes) while the other really isn’t (cutting spending, which is surprisingly unpopular even among many Republicans).

“When ksagnostic posts, don’t just consider her as the source, consider the lack of factual detail she has in anything she writes”

At least I know the difference between facts (reality) and belief. I honestly don’t think you do (which is why I consider you to be a fanatic). BTW, I have the XY combination of chromosomes. If I have been in error in the way I have addressed you (I have tended to assume that you also are of the XY persuasion because I have assumed that those who think you are a she think that you are G. Sheridan, which I do not). If I am in error in this, and you are XX, let me know and I will make adjustments accordingly.

And Dick Morris is still not reliable. I am hopiong that factcheck, when they weigh in on last night’s debate, gives us their take on Hillary’s experience claims (they have not addressed Bill Clinton’s claims about Hillary’s experience). At any rate, factcheck will be much more reliable than a dishonest piece of slime like Dick Morris.

401k lost last year but not as bad as the last Clinton year.

Thank God for the Microsoft bid for yahoo, or there would have been real carnage in the markets today with the negative job growth!

Horrors (shudder)! Of course, the top 5% of tax payers also pay more in absolute terms than the bottom 95% (60% to 40%). The top 10% pays 70% to 30%, and the top 80% pays 86% to 14%. By the time we get to the top 50%, not only do they pay 97% of the taxes, they make 87% of the income. They have vastly more income to pay taxes on, so of course they are going to contribute more money in income taxes.

This is a problem in your mind and the minds of people like you. The idea that wealth redistribution is such a huge evil.

ksagnostic
———————————————-

Sources ksagnostic. Curious as to your website you use. You just making these stats up? Your stats are flawed. Maybe you just can’t type. Or you just plain lie.

Oh and ksagnostic, if wealth redistribution is good, then send a check to me in the amount $10,000.

What?

You are ok with other people having THEIR wealth redistributed, but not your own?

Hmmm…..

Look up Max’s Modified Flat tax plan if you think I’m some fanatic and cruel towards the poor. It’s very simple, progressive, and anyone earning <$25,000 pays Zero tax.

Fanatic?

Yeah, that just is too mean on the poor to allow them to earn $25,000 without paying any Federal tax.

A Democrat accidently killed Max’s dog when he was a kid and he’s not forgotten. Or is that closed mindedness something typical of most Kansans?

Right, Max.

And that’s the blind spot that you conservatives have about taxation.

You think that the only tax that matters is the income tax.

But as has been shown over and over, the middle class (you and me) pay a higher share–much higher share–of our income to income tax than the rich do.

More money is collected from the rich as a group, of course, because they make so much more money. But you notice that none of the rich are going to trade places with any of us so they can pay our taxes, which I repeat, is a higher percentage of our income than they pay.

*****

Here’s David Cay Johnston again:

Question: Why do voters agree to arenas and special taxes [like the one in Arlington that made GW Bush rich]?

DCJ: Well, first of all, it was a special election that drew a small number of voters. So it was a distinct minority in favor of this. Legally, there’s no question that we can do this. And it’s going on all across America. So it leads to a bigger question, it seems to me. The great economic mystery of our time is how can we have had almost thirty years of wonderful economic growth – more than half the wealth in America has been created since Ronald Reagan was elected president of the US. The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page often reminds us of that!

And yet the statistics show – the official government data show – that the vast majority of Americans are either not better off, barely better off, or worse off. What’s happening is we have put in place all these policies, including tax increases in a variety of communities, that take money out of the pockets of the many and funnel it into the pockets of the few. I don’t think most Americans, if they understood that, would be in support of that idea. This is not market capitalism. This is handcuffing the market and having government make your money for you.

“Or is that closed mindedness something typical of most Kansans”

Well, it’s typical of at least seventy percent of Kansas voters.

And funny thing, Obama had NO empathy deficit when he let donnie mcclurkin preach his hate for thirty minutes at the end of an Obama fundraiser? Empathy is as empathy does.

And the catholic church had nothing BUT an empathy deficit when it was the largest funder of the campaign to pass the hateful marriage amendment. And NOW the church wants to whine when it’s members (read contributors) are the ones being treated with little empathy?

Empathy is as empathy does. I thought empathy wasnt supposed to be selective.

So.. according to Obama AND the catholic church…

Empathy for illegals = good.

Empathy for gays and their families = bad.

Got it.

Jesus WEPT. Can you say “double standard”? heheheh!

Sorry the column headings don’t line up. Sure miss the preview function on the old blog.

It might interest some to know that according to the IRS, the effective tax rates are as follows:

Top % Tax Rate
1%………..23.13%
5%………..20.78%
10%……….18.84%
25%……….15.86%
50%……….13.84%
Bottom 50%….2.98%

OVERALL……12.45%

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/05in05tr.xls

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/05in06tr.xls

Did you notice the bottom 50%? Those who make less then $30,881 on average pay an effective tax rate of just 2.98% of their income.

So, half the country is OK with the current IRS tax structure, EXCEPT that they want taxes to be increased for everybody else!

Examples of Max’s Flat Tax (all assume no IRA/401k/Keough deductions for simplicity):

If I earn:

$25,000 or less, I pay $0 tax. Effective tax rate is 0%.

$30,000, I pay (30,000 – 25,000 * .2) $1,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 3.3%.

$40,000, I pay (40,000 – 25,000 * .2) $3,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 7.5%.

$50,000, I pay (50,000 – 25,000 * .2) $5,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 10%.

$75,000, I pay $10,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 13.3%.

$100,000, I pay $15,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 15%.

$150,000, I pay $25,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 16.6%.

$250,000, I pay $45,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 18%.

$500,000, I pay $95,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 19%.

$1,000,000, I pay $195,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 19.5%.

$10,000,000, I pay $1,995,000 in taxes. Effective tax rate is 19.55%.

NOTE: This is a modified flat tax. Note the PROGRESSION in Effective Tax rates as your income rises!

Also note, the rich with tax shelters will be paying taxes on all income (except Social Security which was already taxed). No more tax shelters!

Note also that two people living together (man/woman, man/man, woman/woman, married/single) can each earn up to $25,000 without paying ANY tax. Bob and Tom live together. Bob makes $23,000 and Tom earns $24,000. Neither pays any tax!

boy, if that ain’t an opening for econ: “when reality comes in the door, honesty and integrity jump out the window”

Right, econ?

why not cut government spending and have no income tax?

Phantom – up about 6% or so for 2007. Of course, I gave it all back in January.

Income Inequality: How Census Data Misrepresent Income Distribution
by Robert E. Rector and Rea S. Hederman, Jr.
Center for Data Analysis Report #99-07

Political debate on income in the United States often has been characterized as competition between two schools of economic thought: one that focuses on the long-term increase in general prosperity and one that focuses on the equalization of existing incomes. Proponents of the first approach have much to hearten them; the long-term increase in economic well-being in the United States has been enormous. Today, the standard of living for the average American is nearly seven times higher than it was 100 years ago, after adjusting for inflation.2 The large gains in prosperity have affected all Americans, including low-income groups. At present, workers earning the minimum wage comprise the lowest-paid 2 percent of all employees. Yet today’s minimum wage worker earns more, in real terms, in a single day than a low-skilled worker earned in an entire six-day workweek at the turn of the century. In other words, today’s minimum wage worker earns more in eight hours than a low-skilled worker earned in 70 or more hours a century ago.3

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Labor/CDA99-07.cfm

And interesting how the IRS does NOT include Social Security taxes when it talks about tax rates, but it DOES when it talks about total money collected and paid out.

When you separate the dedicated tax to Social Security pay ins and pay outs, it turns out that the next most expensive item in the budget is — SURPRISE! — the military budget.

More than half of the money collected by income tax will fund the military, past and present, but it still won’t be enough because of massive deficit spending.

Heh, no way, JR.

Did you see those rock-ribbed conservatives over at MoveOn.org have backed Obama.

He’s got the mojo hand . . .

GOBAMA!

Clinton still can’t explain or apologize for her vote for endless war in Iraq.

Obama on the other hand in a speech on public record from the floor of the Illinois Senate laid out in chilling detail what would happen if we invaded and was opposed from day one.

MrC.

I don’t go there anymore.

Those posts are so ignorant and vile . . . I just want to think more highly of people than that.

Capn-
Not sure what you mean.
I just don’t think their statement on saying Eagle employees can attend the Republican caucus and not the Democratic holds water.
My viewers and readers have known of my involvement with the Edwards campaign, James Barfield’s support of Obama, and Phil Journey’s support of Huckabee. None of our viewers have complained.
After all, how in the heck are you supposed to know what you’re talking about…and not have an opinion about it?

Oops. DAMMIT!

This: isnt the wingnut fringe of the democratic party that supports obama

SHOULD have been: it isnt the wingnut fringe of the democratic party that supports Hillary. Far from it.

Go to DU and see the trashing that Hillary gets.

If you had a national sales tax instead of income tax, the rich would just buy everything in tax free zones.

Phantom: A British report to-day says the two women who blew themslves up suffered from Downes Syndrome.

MrC – ask Phil about mu idea of a McCain-Huckabee ticket.

Hey Mr. C, thanks for pointing me to the editor’s blog.

heheheh. I loved this part:

“I realize there’s no perfect answer to this situation, and this policy has its flaws.”

No shit.

“It opens us to the appearance of treating two political parties differently.”

Ya think?

“But I also can’t see my way to prohibiting participation in the Republican caucus just so we have a parallel policy for two very different events.”

Uh, wouldnt that be the “fair and balanced way of doing it?

“The issue with the Democratic caucus is purely in the way the party has structured the event.”

OH-PULEEEZE!

Yeah. I’m soooooo sure. Given the WE’s slavish devotion to the republican party, particularly tihrt and bush…

I’m so SURE it’s just a “structural” issue.

Hehehehehehehehheehehehheeh. That shoulda been on the FUNNY pages.

Capn, typical Lib to distort the facts I presented with your made-up numbers.

You want to mix apples and oranges to make your point about how terrible the Federal Government is in their tax policy for the poor and middle class.

You completely Make-Up numbers and expect anyone rational to go along with you!

Capn, you have argued in the past that Social Security is sound, always has been and always will be. The pay as you go system is completely funded by itself and separate from the rest of the Federal budget.

Now you want it mixed to make your fake point.

Social Security 6.2% of an employees pay earned up to $102,000 for 2008. Medicare is 1.45% of all earned income with No Cap.

Self-employed people see double the rates above: 14.4% Social Security, and 2.9% Medicare.

Now Capn, if you want to guarantee proportionally higher Social Security Benefits compared to what is paid-in for taxes, I’m ok with lifting the Cap.

But you can’t.

“The basic structure of the social security system also introduces inequities in benefits as a result of differences in income. Every social security beneficiary receives a guaranteed minimum benefit. Beyond this guaranteed minimum, increases in income lead to increases in benefits up to a maximum level of benefits. The result of this structure is a system that gives low-income recipients a higher than proportionate share of benefits.” http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj14n1-4.html

So maybe those at lower income levels pay a higher percentage of their income in Social Security (not Medicare)taxes, but they also receive disproportionately HIGHER benefits as well.

And when you factor in the likelihood of MEANS TESTING in the near future, those at the higher income levels will likely see Reduced or even Eliminated Benefits.

Do a quick calc on your Social Security benefits here:

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/quickcalc/index.html

3 People, all born 1/1/1970 and all retire on 1/1/2037 at their NORMAL retirement age of 67.

1. Max Earns $150,000/year
2. Capn Earns $50,000/year
3. JR Earns $25,000/year

Max’s benefit is $2,442/month.

Capn’s benefit is $1,725/month. Now Capn earned 33% of what Max did (and paid less in taxes), but gets paid 71% of the benefit that Max does!

JR’s benefit is $1,070/month. Now JR earned 17% of what Max did (and paid less in taxes), but gets paid 44% of the benefit that Max does!

IMPORTANT NOTE: Means testing will likely cut or eliminate Max’s Social Security benefits. So the inequality of benefits paid will increase even more!

OK, let’s try again.

This is beyond disgusting (don’t know why the url trick didn’t work this time).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22945797

I found this on a comments section elsewhere and thought it was funny.

Electile Dysfunction : the inability to become aroused over any of the choices for president put forth by either party in the 2008 election year.

agnostic:
Concur.
These are sick, sick puppies, and there is no justification for this whatsoever.

It is obvious to me that the factions in Iraq just want to kill people, whoever and whenever they can. How low can you get using unwitting mentally challenged women to kill others? Those bastards care nothing for their own. Get our service people out of there.

Correct Vaughn, there’s both a Minimum and a Maximum Social Security benefit.

Since there is a Maximum benefit, it would be fair to have a Maximum cap on taxes paid in.

If I recall all the campaign promises correctly, I believe Clinton and Obama both favored eliminating the Maximum cap on taxes – thus the Disparity between benefits and taxes paid even larger. Again more Socialist then today, in redistributing wealth using the Social Security system to do it.

Raise your hand if you want to pay more Social Security taxes, and NOT get more Social Security benefits!

Anybody?

Ok, those who earn less then the Cap, please put all of your hands down now!

Eagle Beak, maybe the Marines should practice amphibius landings in Berkeley.

Cesar Chavez Park, and the Golden Gate Fields look like perfect Landing Zones for advancing to the San Pablo Dam road.

Just an exercise. No live rounds needed in town of course.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

NN, you Canadians are a shining example of prosperity, eh.

How’s the GST and PST working out for you to go along with the VAT and the income tax?

50% of Americans who are paying only 3% of the income tax would probably love your Canadian Socialist plan.

Those who don’t pay taxes, are always for more taxes.

get article discribing how Tricle down econimics works and how the ripples stop going out from the evil rich.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2004150613_luxsqueeze29.html

Even if they don’t change the caps ‘as is’ I think they should increase the tax base to 1.5x the benefit cap base. My reason: It is in this area that spousam benefit becomes more important – therefore they can receive 150% of the ‘regular’ benefit between them.

Down in my area taxpayer and spouse each draw their own.

Taz,

You bring up one of my arguments against “free” health care.

Why should I have to pay the taxes to provide “free” health care to someone who doesn’t take care of themselves?

Chas,

Do you have health care?

Nathan, that is a ridiculous question!! Unless you have some reason for asking it…

Chas,

Just trying to figure out how you afforded it, since you are an advocate for “afforadable” health care.

Chas–

The government pays for Nathan’s health care, of course.

He’s part of the biggest socialistic program the government has ever or will ever run–the standing Armed Forces of the United States of America.

It is so socialistic, it provides not only pay and medical care, but food, housing, clothing, haircuts, dental care, counselling, transportation to and from work, insurance and funeral expenses.

It also provides heavily subsidized food and products at what used to be called the PX.

Even the liquor is tax subsidized.

What makes it sad, but laughable, is that Nathan’s Health Care is paid for by TAX DOLLARS… Tax Dollars that he would deny using to help those who are less fortunate to get a minimal amount of health care — a level they can AFFORD to pay…

That is the irony of Nathan’s argument!! LOL

Taz, I dont know about CapN… but i dont have a problem with military being given as good of health care benefits as possible… We send them to dangerous places… We should cover their health care… during their enlistment, AND a good bit of it after…

However, Taz, it IS Socialistic… no matter how you cut it…

Taz
Posted February 1, 2008 at 3:47 pm | Permalink
Talk about an out of control government. There is a bill (HB282) in the Mississippi legislature that has as its intent/description:

Description: Food establishments; prohibit from serving food to any person who is obese.

How would YOU like to be the poor minimum wage clerk telling mr or ms fatty that you cannot serve them because they are too fat?

This is outrageous…taking big brother government to places it should NEVER go. And..then expect cashiers to enforce it.

Mississippi is really “out there”. What is next, mandatory annual blood pressure screening????
————————————————-

Please note Hillary Clinton’s HillaryCare! plan to save $1 Trillion dollars at the web site below.

Now, I don’t know how Hillary is planning on Enforcing Obesity Reduction, but Tax, HB282 might just be a part of the hidden details of Hillary’s plan.

The $1 Trillion savings from obesity reduction is included in the offsets used by Clinton to pay for her plan. The question is “how will she enforce obseity reductions?”

Muzzles? Forced reduction surgery? Who knows?

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/files/pdf/healthcarecosts.pdf

o Obesity intervention: If obesity among the elderly were to return to the level in the
1980s, then savings could total a trillion dollars over a 25 year period.xlv

Military service is by choice, socialism is not. That is the BIG difference.

Thats true ANTI — And every person who signs on to military service, is signing their “life” away to the Military system of socialistic provisions/regulations… Check the UCMJ manual, and you will see that clearly!!

Capn, your drinking demunderground coolaide again.

(You are supposed to boil that before drinking)

The IRS stats I posted do not include the Social Security/Medicare numbers you keep throwing into the mix.

Your distortion of IRS data with Social Security/Medicare data is laughable and cute, but totally misleading.

BTW- Say Capn, you like the HillaryCare! plan? What do the HillaryCare! cost/premium numbers look like? I haven’t seen them.

And even if you haven’t, I’m sure you can make up some numbers that make more sense then what is in her plan.

If Hillary is able to make us all more healthy and live longer, that will put even more stress on Social Security, though it may save some Medicare costs.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/files/pdf/healthcarecosts.pdf

Wrong again, “Anti JR” (things getting boring around the McClure household, James?)

The government forces us to pay for Nathan’s healthcare and everything else whether we want to or not.

As we talk about what reforms ought to be entered into by the next administration, a thought about what works:

http://tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=020108A

Highlights:

“Clearly, there are many opponents to reform – such as populist media, special interests and within the civil service. And reforms usually have a short-term cost, but larger long-term gains.

Reforming successfully usually demands that political leaders have the ability to stand up for what they know to be right and endure criticism in the short term. Indeed, that is what Ronald Reagan once did – and he was both re-elected and praised afterwards. In the current race for Presidential nominations in the US, there is much talk about change. But how much substance and determination is actually behind the words?

Every industrialised country in the world has launched free-market reforms during the past two to three decades. About a dozen of these countries have reformed substantially in a number of areas. The United States is one of these. But other countries have achieved more in areas where the US still has a lot do to. And the economic and social results from the reforms have often far exceeded expectations.”

discuss . . .

CapnAmerica and Chas,

The Military also forces height/weight standards on it’s members too.

If you do not maintain your weight you will be kicked out.

The Military also forces physical fitness standards on people too.

If you do not maintain your physical fitness you can be kicked out.

Are you willing to place those same standards on your government mandated “free” or “affordable” health care?

So Max, do you have some problem with that statement??

“o Obesity intervention: If obesity among the elderly were to return to the level in the
1980s, then savings could total a trillion dollars over a 25 year period.xlv”

Do you have a similar gripe about government intervention with tobacco users?? Huh???

Interesting article GMC.

As Europe moves away from Socialist policies, America is moving in the opposite direction.

In traveling in Eastern Europe in particular, I have witnessed first hand, the improvements they are making to their economies as they transition away from Government controlled economies to free market economies.

For the first time in history, Europe is moving forward while America moves backward.

CapN — That ANTI JR could be any of a number of posters on this Blog that like to belittle JR, or take stupid pot shots at him… Those folks would be very numerous indeed!!

As opposed to what Max?? The NEJM, or AMA, or CDC??

Ummm, a little typo:

200 Million or 200,000,000.

“The government forces us to pay for Nathan’s healthcare and everything else whether we want to or not.”

chas– Is this the “truth” you speak of.
Like it or not, he speaks the truth of how Libs believe. The famous quote, “I loathe the military”, is the truth as you people see it.

CapnAmerica,

Your definition of socialism and the actual definition of socialism are apparently two different things.

Because the military doesn’t offer you cradle to grave socialism.

Then again, you and I have had several discussions on the military and every time you continue to show your ignorance.

They most certainly do.

If you’re born to a military family, you get everything I just talked about.

If you get into a military college, they pay full tuition, pay for your uniforms, your computer, your haircuts, plus they give you a stipend.

It comes to over a quarter MILLION DOLLARS to put an officer through West Point for example.

Your evidence so far, Nathan, consists of “no it’s not socialism.”

If that’s all the better you can do, just quit now, while you’re behind.

Fleetwood–

The government takes from me and you to pay for the military.

That’s socialism.

It has nothing to do with whether we love them or loathe them.

Personally, I’ve been supporting more pay and benefits for soldiers. But it’s hard to get the money away from no bid contractors like Cheney’s former company Halliburton and into the hands of the actual people who serve . . .

Thanks to Worst.
President.
Ever.

CapnAmerica,

What does the cost of sending an officer through school have to do with it being socialism?

Your statements saying it is socialism are hardly any better than mine saying it is not.

So, once again, I ask you:

What is your definition of socialism?

Because, it is apparent, that you are not using the actual textbook definition so far.

Capn, that is quite possible the dumbest thing I’ve seen you write – and that’s saying something.

“eople in the military often don’t own their own house, the gov’t provides you one. You don’t go to your doctor, the gov’t provides you one. You don’t drive to the battlefield or meetings in your car, the gov’t provides you transportation. You don’t cook your own meals, you eat in the mess hall. Etc. etc.

The closest thing we have in this country to pure socialism.”

It’s called PAY. and BENEFITS. for SERVICES RENDERED.

Numbnuts.

Ironic CapN… The Priesthood of the Catholic Church is much the same… Only it doesnt come from TAX dollars… But, the benefits are extremely similar!! :-)

Nathan, I am sure you have health care coverage as a member of the Reserves… it might not be at the same level, when you are not in active duty status… but I am SURE you have coverage —

MY coverage comes as part of my compensation package as well… but it comes from the private sector, and not from TAX dollars!!

If you arent covered by a “socialistic type” of program, then at least it is TAX supported!
========================

And Fleet… I would suggest you NOT put me in the Loathe Em section of liberals… I do not Loathe the Military… I dont like some of the policies made FOR them by Presidents, and Legislators… But I do NOT Loathe the Military…

And as CapN pointed out, I also advocate for the best of equipment, etc., for our troops to do the job they have chosen to do!! If they dont have the best equipment, then ALL of us are at fault for that, in one way or another…

My goodness, how touchy, Nathan…

When military folks have families, they are still provided with a housing allowance of sorts… it might not pay the entire bill, but it is an Allowance?? Didnt they use to call it BAQ or some such thing??

And as for the capitalistic ventures?? I guess you could call it that, IF Haliburton had to bid on their contracts, like other private sector business establishments do… But with No-Bid contracts??? THAT is where the socialistic “type” of system comes into play…

Now, let’s see you try to weasel your way around that one??

Sorry, capn..you are dead wrong. I was born into a military family. My dad was serving active duty at the time. Your claim of “If you’re born to a military family, you get everything I just talked about.” is absolutely and completely wrong.

Also…I suppose you are going to degrade the benefits my brother received in August. He was buried at government expense, complete with an honor guard after dying in August in Kabul.

You make me sick, you ignorant punk. My brother did not “enjoy” the so called socialism. He was a volunteer, and he died violently.

Take your ignorant, stupid comments and shove them where the sun doesn’t shine.

Well I see Kansas “Max” is messing with my nic again.

“Max”? Kindly leave me out of your little thought experiments.

Well if there is ANYTHING approaching socialism it would be the military draft.

I mean what more can you demand of individual for society than ordering that individual into battle for a cause they likely have no stake in?

It has been ever thus.

Nice story “Taz”. And you waited til now to tell it?

I call bs.

Looks like Chas is in his melt down mode again.

I wonder, do you speak to people in your church like this? Would they be surprised to see your attitude on this blog?

I am assuming that your current health benefits are administered through the V A…. Nathan, an old buddy of mine died 18 months ago… He served for about 3 years back during the Nam Era… never saw combat… When he died, he was STILL getting Veterans benefits after all those years…

PLUS, I know Air Force reserve folks who are getting health care benefits, whether on active duty or not… Now, are you saying that you somehow dont RATE as highly as they do?? Or do you just want us to feel sorry for you??

And TAZ — I have two nieces on the East Coast who had FULL health coverage from my Bro. in law… who was RETIRED military… from WW II, Korea, and early Nam era…

Bro in law, and sis, both had medical benefits up to the day Bro in law died!! Also had full Base privileges!!

So, I have no clue what you are trying to say here!!

taz:

My condolences – your brother died with honor, though some here are loathe to admit same. And don’t sweat JR – it’s easy to call “bs” behind the anonymity of a blog. As usual, he hasn’t a clue. The rest of us understand we have no reason to not take you at your word, especially on such a subject.

Again, my condolences.

To answer your question more directly…. Ummm… You might recall, Even Jesus called the hypocrites and liars “Sons of Snakes” and “Brood of Vipers” It’s Ok Nathan… it goes with the territory!! LOL

Now, Nathan… the original point here is that YOU have your health care benefits provided by TAX dollars… unlike most of us here… (if it is only when you are on duty, then so be it) TAX dollars provide your health care benefits… And yet, you would deny TAX dollars to be used to provide for the health care of others Less Fortunate… THAT is what I call Hypocrisy!! Nuff said!!

Chas,

Do you concede that I am not a liar?

I work for my health care benefits. It is not Hypocrisy for me to expect others to do the same.

Max: I didn’t say we are a shining example, just pointed out a bit of eonomic history. The Good and Services Tax of 5% plus the Provicial Sales Tax (with of various rates across the country, ie. Alberta doesn’t have one) IS the Value Added Tax. We no longer tax at the point of manufacture but at the point of consumption or service rendered. Where the VAT helped is that service sectors like lawyers and accountants, hairdressers etc., now pay VAT whereas before they paid nothing,thereby spreading the tax burden across the total sector not just manufacturers. Manufacturers used to pay a tax of 12% which stiffled industry and inhibited investment. Have you looked at the two economies in the last 10-15 years? The basket case to the North seems to have straightened itself out, but I maintian that what worked here may not work for you. My previous post was a comment, not a lesson Max.

Well, let’s see if I can make KsGrm to be the liar that she normally is…

Nathan, can you show anywhere that I said you dont work for your health care benefits??

Answer: NO — I didnt… So dont try to spin it… I only said where your Military Health benefits come from… TAX Dollars…

I also did not say it was hypocrisy for you to say otherwise about others… So you can stop trying to spin that one too!!

Sorry KsGrm… YOU are wrong again!!

But do try again some time!!

Oh one more thing, Grmmy… I did NOT say anything about FREE health care… I have been addressing the subject of AFFORDABLE health care… major difference there…

Pack up your bum, and save him for another thread, ok?? READ upthread.. it is extremely clear that I have been talking about AFFORDABLE health care, Grmmy!! There’s that reading problem of yours again!! You really do need to do something about that some time!!

Chas,

This is what you said earlier:

“And yet, you would deny TAX dollars to be used to provide for the health care of others Less Fortunate… THAT is what I call Hypocrisy!! Nuff said!!”

Now you say this:

“I also did not say it was hypocrisy for you to say otherwise about others… So you can stop trying to spin that one too!!”

So who knows what you are trying to say.

You say something in one post, deny it in another, then accuse us of spinning…

Thats simple Nathan… You have said many times that you dont want tax dollars to be used to provide health care for poor people… Simple enough, right??

Round and round he goes, where Chas will stop, no one knows…

ooops correction thats not function… should be Malfunction!! sorry bout that!!

Chas,

I posted this much earlier than your post calling me a liar:

“Nathan
Posted February 1, 2008 at 4:32 pm | Permalink
CapnAmerica and Chas,

First, the Marine Corps doesn’t pay for my health care.

I am in the Reserves. The only time I am covered is when I am at my drill weekend or I am under orders.

Second, you could hardly call it socialist.

Although “similar” you completely disregard the military’s mission and purpose by simply stating that it is socialism.

When someone is in the military they are working for everything they get. They are paid less than their civilian counterparts because all those things like food, housing, and health care are taken into account.

It would be a logistical nightmare to employ the military to fight and win wars if the individual soldier had to fend for himself on those things.”

So, find somewhere that I said the Marine Corps pays for your health coverage?? I merely said TAX Dollars… Again, YOU interjected the part about active duty, drill weekend, or under orders… And who pays that coverage when you ARE being covered?? TAX dollars!!

Now, where did I say something not true??

Chas,

You are the only one trying to play games.

First you call me a liar, then deny it, then try to qualify it.

Nitwit.

Now you are back to calling me a liar again.

So which is it?

Chas,

Who knows what you are, you are so vague.

It was not a lie, it was a mistake.

One I can admit to making. So what exactly are you then if not a priest?

Nathan, did you, or did you not say — that your health coverage is not provided by the Marine Corps??? Did I EVER say that it was?? I stated very straightforward: Your Health Coverage is provided by TAX Dollars!!

You DID deny that your health coverage is provided by the Marine Corps, right?? Yet, your health coverage is provided by TAX dollars… And what is it that funds the Marine Corps??

If you arent lying, then so be it… But, I think YOU are the one who can answer that question…

Chas,

I have already stipulated several times now that my health care coverage (right now) is not paid for by Tax Dollars or the Marine Corps.

Only while I am actively serving or I am under orders will the Marine Corps be paying for my health care.

I said that BEFORE you called me a liar.

I said that AFTER you called me a liar.

I posted where I said that after you denied calling me a liar and claimed I only made the distinction after you called me a liar.

I am through with this stupidity Chas. I have better things to do than play your assinine games.

Good night. Whatever you claim to be or believe in it sure isn’t Christian.

Furthermore, there is NOTHING RELIGIOUS or NON-RELIGIOUS about a discussion of Health Coverage… yours provided by TAX dollars… mine from private sector… So, WHY do you always want to attach something RELIGIOUS to every damned topic on this Blog??? Get over it, Nathan!! I quite frankly dont CARE what you do or do not think of my Christian Faith… Because, frankly, it isnt UP to you… no matter how much you want to pass judgment… it’s not YOUR judgment to pass…. Aint that neat???

1. CapnAmerica
Posted February 1, 2008 at 4:44 pm | Permalink
The article to which Max refers has no specifics whatsoever.

The fact remains that the countries with the highest standard of living (look it up, I’m tired of posting it) have the highest levels of taxation and gov’t services.

Think Switzerland, not Somalia.

2. CapnAmerica
Posted February 1, 2008 at 4:46 pm | Permalink
Nathan–

Height-weight standards are wholly irrelevent.

The fact remains that if you want cradle-to-grave socialism, join the US Armed Forces.

GI, after all, stands for “government issue.”

Say Max,

These two posts say all anyone needs to know about Capn. He obviously is very afraid of the IRS stats you posted. Capn calls the IRS stats lies and not very specific! Ha, ha! Did he not click on your link and even read the IRS stats? Of course not.

Capn in post #2 degrades the American military calling them a bunch of Socialiststs!

What more do you need to know about Capn character? Capn is a comic book character for sure.

Sorry JR, I apologize from the bottom of my heart.

I didn’t mean to flatter you so much by saying you could possibly earn $25,000 in one year all by yourself.

I hope you accept this apology in the spirity in which it was truly intended.

And are you now able to provide health insurance for your own son? I hope so. In between blogging sessions during the day, you hopefully can find a job.

J R
Posted February 1, 2008 at 5:33 pm | Permalink
Nice story “Taz”. And you waited til now to tell it?

I call bs.

————————————————–

To make sure all could see this cold, heartless, deadbeat S O B, for what he truly is.

Chas.
Posted February 1, 2008 at 8:05 pm | Permalink
ALERT!! ALERT!!

D
N
F
T
T’s

And do NOT Trust Bad Financial Advisors!

Max says: “Nathan, I recall this thread and it was clear that Chas as a counselor to widows and widowers had been giving incorrect advice to them about their Social Security survivor benefits.”

Once again, Max makes up facts where there are none… As VT pointed out, I was NOT giving erroneous information… merely incomplete information… What I said on this Blog was all true… just not complete, due to changes made in SS benefits that I was not aware of!!

So, why dont you just lie some more Max… You are SO good at it!!

You and Nathan both!!

Of course, there is a possibility that you simply do NOT remember the thread accurately… That IS a viable possibility…

Nawwwww you’re just in a mood to fabricate more lies… SNAFU

Actually, James, there are LOTS of things you dont know that you continually LIE about here… I am sure you have great fun doing it… but it is SO dishonest of you, being a former military officer in our nations great military establishment!!

So, just keep on LYING, and I will keep on reminding you of your LIES!! And you still cannot prove that Cosmos is not a scientist!! LOL And, you cant prove I am a non-minister either… Unfortunately for YOU, I CAN prove it, when I have to… which is like almost never!! And as for YOU, you dont deserve to have the proof… you lying POS!!

Let’s meet up Chas, I’ll show you my military ID card. :)

Max and Regular,

Don’t bother trying to argue with Chas about it.

It took over a day and who knows how many posts for him to finally admit he was wrong last time.

Do you really want to go through that again just trying to get him to admit to that now?

Not worth it.

oerotative = perjorative

Chas,

Sorry, I don’t deal in anecdotal stories.

I deal in reality. Actually, if I remember correctly you were saying the same thing in that Social Security discussion, that you knew someone who didn’t get the benefits, thus we were wrong.

Sorry, that is not how things work.

The VA offers many services to Veterans and you can go there to utilize some of them.

There is a world of difference in getting some benefits and health care.

Go to the website, see for youself:

http://www.va.gov/healtheligibility/

Nathan, all Veterans are entitled to free health care at the VA, and if they don’t have the resources on site they will send the vet out to other Dr.’s and hospitals, there doesn’t have to be any service connected injury or disability.

I’ve posted elsewhere that we could deal with two problems at one time.

We have insufficient care for our veterans and servicepeople. We have a problem with affordable health care.

Now many, maybe most physical ailments don’t need a Doctor. They could be dealt with by a good medic or EMS trained person.

Why not have clinics staffed with personnel trained in basic care? That would serve our veterans AND the uninsured poor.

Certainly there is no lack of volunteerism in our country. Every time I have been in a private, for profit hospital, I have seen unpaid volunteers. And we are about to have a FLOOD of older folks who I think would be eager to give back.

Now it WILL take a change in attitude. We will have to change the view that even basic care is a for profit enterprise. But we can better use the resources we have to care for our veterans AND our uninsured.

I’m thinking they changed the law to include ng and reservist who have had duty in the mid-east. Trying to beef up the incentives to recruit more.

What I posted about my friend, and my Dad is totally true… No fancy applications… No waiting periods… Just Health Care at the WICHITA VA center!! Just like I posted!!

Maybe you havent check the fine print lately, Nathan!! Maybe what you are posting is just like what I posted about Soc. Sec. Not WRONG… but perhaps a little incomplete!!

#
The Phantom
Posted February 1, 2008 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

Regular, you’r wrong. I know of an istance in which the ‘vet’ hadn’t even completed boot camp, but was discharged and receiving VA care, because the discharge was not dishonorable.
——————–
Then he committed fraud Phantom. The law says you must have 180 days military service to be considered a veteran of the armed forces.

If he was injured during basic, then he would receive care for those injuries, otherwise no.

Right Wench… And Vaughn enlightened us by saying that what I had said was TRUE… until they made the changes… Changes that I was unaware of… No spin there… Just facts, ma’am…. I didnt hurt ANY of my parishoners… since I always told them whatever they did, to check the Social Security Office… Which I ALSO posted!! Read it and weep, there, Wench!! Vaughn clarified very plainly that I had not advised anybody incorrectly… just incomplete…

I THANKED Vaughn for his clarification… YOU ALL decided to keep on spinning, and lying about what I had said!! And you are STILL doing it!!

By the way, my DAD got FREE health care, and he hadnt been in the Army since 1945!!

He got lowered Rx prices… and saw a VA doctor every 3 months… NO cost to HIM, OR to his medical insurance…

The same situation applied to my old high school friend… who DIED at the Dole VA Center following two surgeries in which they tried their damndest to save his life!!

Now, you still want to argue the point??

My Dad had health insurance… My friend had NONE… Go figure!! Somewhere out there is the solution to this rather strange dilemma!!

Somebody more enlightened than all of us will no doubt come along with the explanation!! All I KNOW IS what happened… Cause I was there to see it happen!!

Well, Phantom, they are still calling us liars… what to do; what to do?? I propose we just call it a night!! I’m not going to sit here and be called a liar, when I know darned well what happened to my Dad, and my old high school buddy, whom I visited when he was a patient… and who I conducted a funeral service for, out in Kingman!!

So, I am just going to call it a night on this matter… and hope that somebody will come along with the explanation….

Could be JR… Dont forget Phantom, though

Chas,

I have already posted the VA websites page on eligability.

Foor goodness sake man, read it.

There is nothing there which says, just because you are a veteran, that you get free health care.

No one is calling you liar, you probably just have no idea what you are talking about like usual.

It’s been a good day. Time to call it a night.

Sure Nathan… Like I wasnt there with BOTH of these folks… One was my FATHER, you little freak… I took him there!! The other was my old friend from high school days… He did have a disability… non service related… like James says of his… It was minor… not VA eligible… And Nathan, my father died 40 years after WW II!! Geez!!

YES, Nathan, like it or not, I DO know whast I am talking about…

BTW, on that Soc. Sec. issue… I knew what I was talking about then, too!! What I said was TRUE… because I was involved with the particular case… VAUGHN came forward and POSTED that I was not wrong… just didnt have complete information!!

Did you forget that point of clarification??

And WHY would I admit I was wrong about something, that I KNEW I was not wrong about?? That would have been totally WRONG!!

I was satisfied with VAUGHN’s clarification… Too bad it didnt satisfy you, since you are STILL LYING about what happened!! Arent you just the proud little Marine for that?? Eh, Nathan??

And NOW, you do the same thing here… Look, it happened… I dont know HOW it happened… but it happened!! Apparently it has happened to at LEAST one other poster besides me… Doesnt that tell you ANYTHING Marine boy??? TWO posters tell you the same thing…. but NOOOOO YOU have to be right, and throw your Ad Hominem CRAP around the Blog, just as usual!!

Like I said, I am satisfied to wait for somebody who has knowledge of the FACTS to clear up the dilemma… So sorry if that isnt good enough for YOU!!

Thanks for proving my point, Regular.

The specifics you provide are just more evidence on the main idea–cradle-to-grave socialism.

Housing allowances, medical care, uniforms, haircuts, food cooked by others and all paid for by the US taxpayer.

Yup, that’s what I’m talking about.

It’s not a smear, it’s not slander, it’s just the way it is.

I’m sorry Nathan — Not one damned thing you or Regular posted from the supposed VA web sites have anything at all to do with either one of the two situations I described… And yet YOU still sit here calling me a Liar, among your other normal Ad Hominem attacks!!

YOU have no knowledge of what I am talking about.. But You sure think you know everything there is to know on the matter!!

You are impudent, arrogant, and self-righteous… As far as I am concerned, I dont much care what rank you have as a U. S. Marine, YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY!!

Chas,

I didn’t call you a liar. Actually, I specifically said that already.

I simply said you probably don’t know the circumstances for how those people you know were given the care they received.

There is nothing “supposed” about the website I posted.

It is the .gov website. Dear Lord man…

But keep on crying, you are good at that.

You’re not a liar Chas.

You’re just a bull shit artist :)

Now, Regular, that is something you should know the exact definition of… since you are such a PRO at it!!

Show me any bullshit I have posted here tonite, troll boy…. It isnt there, you dumb A$$

Well, time for meds and fruit… then time for bed…

Good night; Good luck;
God bless; whatever you conceive God to be!

Blessings All!!

BTW, wasn’t yesterday the day that no one was going to be able to post unless they registered according to Regular.

What do they call it again when people post things as true that they can’t know is true?

Seems like the word is on the tip of my . . .

Starts with an “L”

I remember now.

LIE

Capn joining the military, his answer:

bawk bawk bawk bawk

bawk bawk bawk bawk

BTW, was the registration thing based on faulty evidence or no evidence?

I’m guessing, no evidence.

Yea, right CapN, not to mention Regular’s daily lies.
“Cosmos is not a scientist” and

“Chas is a non-minister”

I like that one about Chas., since I know Chas, and have seen him at work. By the way, folks, Chas has the rank of a Bishop, but he doesnt like to make that a commonly known thing.

But when one of you numb nuts know it all types posts that Chas is a non-minister, you might just as well post on here that Regular is a phony soldier, or Nathan is a traitor. It has the same amount of “truth” ya know?

And as for Cosmos, Regular has no knowledge of whether Cosmos is, or is not a scientist! So, he should just shut up about that too!

Some of you people are just despicable!

Interesting thesis, JR.

I think he did serve, but he tends to (remember GW in his debate with Kerry?) exaggerate.

I talked to Chas f2f on two occasions and both times he was wearing a clerical collar.

But you’re right, Sugar, I did not know he is a bishop.

Does that mean he can only travel on diagonals?

Sorry, just got done with three games of computer chess.

Another LIE Regular! AGAIN!

Gotcha! You have been told numerous times,

I am sugar. Thats my real name. I am not
Chas. You are just a numb nuts liar! How many times do you have to be told? Why are you so obsessed with it anyway?

I’m outta here! What a bunch of looney tunes!

You all have fun in your world of delusions!

I’ve been told what Chas/Sugar? What lie was it you are referring to.

Sugar is your real name? What’s your last name?

“coated?”

Nathan

You say you’re a Marine, yet you’ve been posting here on the same topic bitching about the same thing to the same people — since around what 330 – isn’t it a rule of some sort that when you have declared victory in a battle (sounds like you have several times here tonight) and proved your overwhelming superiority you withdraw and celebrate your win — oh I guess not the way GWB does it …

Hey JARHEAD is on HBO go salivate “Get aome Marine — get some…” welcome to the suck ……..

This is what you wanted isn’t it James?

Live with the result.

I think ksgrm is another of your incarnations.

And where IS “American way”?

See what you wanted was no relevance as to nics.

To protect your insanity?

What you have produced is assumation that any poster on your side could be you. Any troll is you too.

You wanted to destroy the blog. You said so.

You only served to marginalize any legitimate poster who might agree with you.

Well done!

Sugar–

Remember the verse, “Vengance is mine, saith the Lord.”

Chas will be a ministering angel when Nathan lies howling . . .

Wow, I’m ksgrm now according to JR. Talk about your delusional people.

No, I confess – I’m really CapnAmerica and you’ve been had JR. :D

Larry–

Nathan is the kind of marine who TALKS the enemy to death . . .

ROFL!

“Regular, what kind of an assh*le are you?”

The assh*le forever kind, Sugar.

Sugar’s last name is “Cane.”

Just like Marlyn Monroe’s character in Some Like It Hot, one of the funniest movies ever made.

well cap’n sounds pretty smart — saves bullets —- think of how much less this war would have cost if we could a talked our way out of it

JR–

It’s almost certain that JM is Right Angle. It’s likely he’s Wahawk and American Way (when AmWay claimed he “had a staff,” he made a pure JMism).

I think it virtually impossible that he’s Max (”socialism! socialism! also communism!”) or Ksgrm. They don’t write like JM, even though many of their ideas overlap.

But you are correct that because JM has lied so much in the past, his protestations mean nothing.

Ok, James. You are a sexually perverted Asshole, among other things. Stop your Effin lying now, and I might not pursue legal actions against your sexual inuendo.

I am not Chas. I am Sugar. Last name is
Schach. My parents are from Netherlands. I was born here, in eastern Colorado. My dad worked on a sugar beet farm, as an administrator.

I have never been to Netherlands. Just heard many stories.

Now, you will stop your effin lying about Chas. A man who has the rank of Bishop does not deserve the demeaning attitude you express here.

I dont share his faith, but he has helped me on several occasions. And I do not sleep with men, James. Nuff said!

Don’t let THE TROLL goad you into giving any personal information that you don’t want to.

THE TROLL known as Regular is now googling your name to find out if I can find out more about you.

It’s probably harmless but given that THE TROLL seems to have a fairly tenuous hold on reality, you might not want to give him anything more . . .

Schach is actually German, it means “chess.”

I do recall that Chas/Sugar stating he had German ancestry as well.

They deal with the gov’t paperwork generated by the industrial hygiene bean-counters . . .

What part of the Netherlands? You can smoke weed there legally you know.

How would you meet Chas/Sugar if you don’t live here?

I was thinking about sending off for “Bishop” diplomas from the Cayman Islands. Maybe a PhD in Astro Turfing as well. :)

Call me Sugar, we can talk. :)

“Clure” means fist in Scot Gaelic.

Sugar–

Regular is the Blog equivalent of the old guy who lives in a cardboard box and hits people up for quarters so he can buy cheap wine.

Screaming at him actually encourages him.

It’s the only human interaction he gets . . .

Don’t pop a vein Sugar/Chas.

Remember, you are in Lent now, you should keep your promise. :)

Astroturfing is a neologism for formal public relations campaigns in politics and advertising that seek to create the impression of being spontaneous, grassroots behavior, hence the reference to the artificial grass AstroTurf, initially developed for the Houston Astrodome.

The goal of such a campaign is to disguise the efforts of a political or commercial entity as an independent public reaction to some political entity—a politician, political group, product, service or event. Astroturfers attempt to orchestrate the actions of apparently diverse and geographically distributed individuals, by both overt (”outreach,” “awareness,” etc.) and covert (disinformation) means. Astroturfing may be undertaken by anything from an individual pushing their own personal agenda through to highly organized professional groups with financial backing from large corporations, non-profits, or activist organizations.

:D

Actually the word you mentioned has Germanic origins.

Ficken Ge-(root word)

Okay Sugar, say hi to Chas when you’re in Dodge City.

Yeah Sugar/Chas – contact the Eagle about the legal options you have being called Sugar/Chas.

You do that.

Despite all evidence to the contrary, I prefer to approach WE Blog with the assumption that each and every nic is a unique and special person; many of them crazed beyond all understand. But special.

And these little pissing matches between nics, real and imagined, tend to bore me.

Y’know, sometimes this forum offers a discussion of issues and points-of-view. But, since reality has a liberal bias, Cons prefer to derail issue-related discussions and suck people into sock-puppet accusations and personal whining (re: “Nathan”) about hurt feelings.

There are many issues and point of view that are worthy of rational, adult discussion and debate. Then the sock-puppets (or not) show up and troll the entire thread toward isults (real and imagined).

If there are any legitimate contributors to this forum, please try to refrain from personal attacks. (I realize I’m almost as guilty, since I think “Nathan” and “outlander” and “Max” and “Econ101″ and “GMC70″ and “ksgrm” might be separate and unique individuals, wacky as they are. But I’m really trying to address their arguments on the basis of the stuff “they” post, rather than conjure up psychological profiles.

A lot of the time, my posts are ignored because, perhaps, I’m not in on the game. Perhaps all these posters are sock-puppets. I dunno. And I don’t care.

Frankly, I don’t think you could invent a “Nathan.” He’s so over-the-edge, no one would believe him if some fiction-writer made him up. And if I allowed myself to wonder too much about it, I’d guess “J R” isn’t really the self-professed liberal s/he attempts to portray him/herself to be. “Max” is anybody’s guess.

And *who* they are really doesn’t matter. In a forum such as this *what* they say is what matters. Except when they’re talking among themselves about who they may or may not be.

If you have an issue or an argument or a point-of-view and have something to contribute to understanding or clarifying an issue, solid. Share your thoughts with us.

But when you lower yourselves into fantasies and sock-puppets and personal rivalries, nothing worthwhile results.

So Sorry Monkey Hawk. I aactually agree with you, but whenever I show up, I have to go through all of this bull shit about being somebody else! Tonight, it has gotten the best of me. I am fed up with James/Regular/etc. But I do not know how to get rid of him and his constant badgering, and lying. Perhaps you have some suggestions?

Thank you, and I am sorry!

Oh, I forgot to put the source for AstroTurfing. It’s wikipedia. :D

James, READ idiot! I do not do Lent. I am sure Chas will. Any dummy knows when Lent starts! I do Mardi Gras for the Party thing. I also know that when Mardi Gras ends, Lent starts! It doesnt take a clergyman to know that. Besides, you dumb fart, it is on nearly every calendar! How stupid can you get, James!

You think you are so smucking fart, why dont you gather up all of your intelligence, and sit on it. It might actually absorb into your worthless body, and you might get to learn something! Truth is, you are nothing! You are nobody! And you are a lying piece of Crap!

JimmyMac,

So you finished your research, and paper, showing that E.G. Beck was correct, and global CO2 levels were above 400 ppm in the 1940’s…?

Which science journal will publish it? Are they impressed by your old IH degree?

“sugar” –

Just try to not let it get under your skin.

All those nics and potential sock-puppets really don’t matter when they get into personal attacks and flames.

Yeah, it’s hard to avoid sometimes. And I am not without sin.

But if you talk about relevant issues on these kinds of forums (fora?) you’ll learn to live with all the trolls ignoring your legitimate arguments and the issues at hand might be legitimately discussed.

I’ve offered many comments to WE Blog which have been ignored. Maybe it’s because my perfect logic has quashed any rebuttal. I dunno.

I’ve entered into dialogs with certain rightist advocates that have resulted in them retiring from the field. No big deal.

But I’ve tried to make my posts and arguments issue-related. And I’ve dealt with posters such as “Nathan” and “Econ101″ and “GMC70″ and “Max” on-topic as best as I can. They can’t seem to deal with most of my on-topic arguments.

I suspect, “sugar,” you’re a real and unique person and not a sock-puppet for “Chas,” or “Capn America,” or “ksfarmgrrl,” or anyone else. I suspect any number of WE Blog posters are sock-puppets of… well, you know who.

It just doesn’t matter. I refuse to get caught up in the on-line or off-line personalities that reveal themselves on this forum. I’d rather discuss the ideas and concepts and philosophies involved.

But too often, when I address the ideas or concepts or philosophies involved, someone attacks someone else as being “non-Christian” or something.

OK James,
I skimmed over all that stuff and here is what i have to say.

I don’t understand a damn thing about it. I think the only C’s I ever got in my undergraduate career were Organic Chemistry I and Organic Chemistry II. This stuff is greek to me, sorry and was so boring as hell that I couldn’t read it for longer than 15 minutes. When I’m reading stuff for an evolution thread, I can make myself do the extra work and put in the extra time to read and interpret everything, but I just can’t get myself motivated for this stuff.

Sorry :( So I probably won’t be participating in the fine details of the GW debates, but for the record I don’t think it can hurt to reduce, reuse and recycle whenever.

Tara,

There is no valid explanation for the wild CO2 changes that Beck (and JimmyMac) claims happened.

The natural carbon cycle causes the small yearly ’sawtooths’ on the graphs here.
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/contents.htm

The yearly seasonal changes are larger at northern latitudes, such as Barrow, due to more land area in the NH.

The gradual, longer-term rise is caused by human-added CO2.

Tara,

Are you also calling all of the scientists (see link in my 12:59 am post) who do global CO2 level measurements “idiots”?

JimmyMac,

Since you have(sic!!) shown that global CO2 levels were above 400 ppm in the 1940’s…

Please post, for the plaintiffs in the New Orleans levees failure lawsuit, your Congressional and Justice Dept. links re the Sierra Club.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/02/open-thread-21-2/#comment-286021

readers = readings

Yesterday’s news about America’s “Well Regulated Militia”

TX: Tiffany Michelle Johnston, the wife of a jail escapee who shot at two law enforcement officials, was sentenced to eight years in prison for giving him a gun after picking him up.
CA: Geraldine Meyers, a fitness trainer who doused her ex-boyfriend with pepper spray before and after shooting him twice in the back of the head was convicted of second-degree murder –public defender argued that Meyers was a battered woman who shot Warren in self defense after years of physical and emotional abuse.
IA: Spencer police said that a man wanted in Wyoming for sexual abuse of a minor in Wyoming apparently shot himself to death after police standoff.
WI: Jordan Wegner, 18, took his sleeping pills, then later woke up confused and in pain after he apparently shot himself in the knee — he doesn’t remember getting the rifle or using it.
NC: Officer Jeffrey Wheaton was cleared of charges after he shot and killed an unarmed teenager, LaQuan Hykeem Davon Brown, 16-years-old after he thought the teen pointed a gun at him.
OR: A Derringer pistol fell off a microwave, hit the kitchen counter and discharged, striking Marilyn Louise Lakin, 68, in the right shoulder and right side of her face.
GA: Two off-duty police officers, Fulton officer Paul Phillips, 37, and Duluth officer Jay Daily, 42, wounded each other during an exchange of gunfire, both recovering from non-life-threatening injuries.
CA: Police arrest 3 people after a 16-year-old was shot as he walked along a quiet residential street.
PA: Two suspects are in custody in fatal shooting of 12-year-old Jolesa Barber and wounded her mother Kimberly Wade, 42 — the 2 suspects fired at least 40 rounds at residence.
OH: Police Say Store Owner Killed With Own Gun In Struggle

If I collect an air sample downwind from a power plant I will get CO2 amounts NOT representative of global figures. Remember, the power plant effluent has 10,000-20,000 ppm CO2. So, just a couple % of that in my smaple would increase my reading by 200-400 ppm.

Heck – even I know that Lent starts this Wednesday (right after Fat Tuesday) and I’m not even Catholic!

Hey, I’m not a Catholic either, Ben, and I will be officiating at an Ash Wednesday Service Wednesday evening. The day after Pancake Day at Liberal! LOL Otherwise known as Shrove Tuesday!

Ben,

They’ve also done good CO2 measurements on tall towers. Interesting graphs for season, hour, and elevation of measurements.

‘CCGG Tall Tower Measurements’
http://www.cmdl.noaa.gov/ccgg/diurnal.html

Yep cosmos – looks about what would be expected.

If you look at Antarctic measurements you see the annual (seasonal) variation subdued and reversed. As expected.

No one answered my questions! :)

co2 levels in forested areas such as jungles can be extremely high during the night.

Of course, the daytime temperatures are usually hotter because of (wait for it)

the sun. :)

James, I first met Sugar about 11 years ago. She was a young, scared, teenaged run-away. Lots of problems. I got her a couple of hot meals; talked things over with her; got her a bus ticket from the Clergy Alliance; called her parents, and sent her home. She has kept in touch with me over the years. Mostly on the computer.

To have YOU make a mockery of that on this Blog is disgusting, and despicable. Your sexual inuendo from last night that I read here makes you not just disgusting, and despicable, but also sexually perverted as well!

So, you had best stop your damned LYING about this girl, if you know what is good for your lying butt!!!

sugar
Posted February 1, 2008 at 11:10 pm | Permalink
Yea, right CapN, not to mention Regular’s daily lies.
“Cosmos is not a scientist” and

“Chas is a non-minister”

I like that one about Chas., since I know Chas, and have seen him at work. By the way, folks, Chas has the rank of a Bishop, but he doesnt like to make that a commonly known thing.

>Oh, he must be a Grand Wizard then.

Ooops, James.. I’m sorry — I amnot a scientist. I retract that statement. I will wait for a scientist to make that comment! LOL

That’s what they do, Chas.

Especially JM.

He takes any personal information and uses it in the most harrassing, irritating manner possible to ensure a response.

The best thing to do is to give him no response.

But if he keeps picking on vulnerable girls, we can always bring back the JM squad . . .

If your parents were well-off, like mine were, Chas, then I’m “a spoiled rich kid who never had to work for anything.”

If your having tough economic times, then you’re “an unemployed loser.”

See how it works?

See graph,

‘CCGG Tall Tower Measurements’
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/diurnal.html
“Diurnal cycles of CO2 (medians by hour) for each measurement level on the North Carolina (NC) and Wisconsin (WI) towers for January and July.“

sugar
Posted February 2, 2008 at 12:25 am | Permalink
James, READ idiot! I do not do Lent. I am sure Chas will. Any dummy knows when Lent starts! I do Mardi Gras for the Party thing. I also know that when Mardi Gras ends, Lent starts! It doesnt take a clergyman to know that. Besides, you dumb fart, it is on nearly every calendar! How stupid can you get, James!

You think you are so smucking fart, why dont you gather up all of your intelligence, and sit on it. It might actually absorb into your worthless body, and you might get to learn something! Truth is, you are nothing! You are nobody! And you are a lying piece of Crap!

>Sure sounds like Chas.

Smucking fart. Didn’t Chas say something almost as stupid as this the other day?

No, Pat Herron, I did not say anything like that the other day, you lying idiot!!

Ben,

Re CO2 seasonal and latitudes, graphs at Mauna Loa, Barrow Alaska, and Bering Head, New Zealand.

http://rabett.blogspot.com/2006/10/hmm.html

Pat Herron–

The guy who thought it was funny to call Obama a racial slur.

But that’s the great thing about America, despite ignorant POS like you, Pat, the country can still become a better place.

And Barack Obama is symbolic of that progress.

Ben,

Even better… Barrow, Mauna Loa, Samoa, and South Pole CO2, all on same graph.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/insitu.html

Sol, When will we see evidence these many supporters and this great amount of money raised means anything?

Linda

And the media puts SOME of its bias to bed.

Posted By: Nathan A.
Date: 2008-02-02 13:48:18

Went to a Ron Paul Rally in Denver last night: The place seated over 1,500 people, and at least have that were left standing wall too wall. Altho the local media reported “1,600 supporters” showed up, it was really more like 3,000 – 4,000 supporters. This movement has exploded more than any other Candidate in the race despite the lack of media attention. Go RON PAUL!!! http://www.RonPaul2008.com

http://www.nolanchart.com/article1646.html

Perhaps this will give the editors and the naysayers who use the WEBLOG some idea of why more oversight is necessary.

What illegal web site? How is a web site illegal?

What illegal website? Foxnews?

Capn goes crying to the blog editor – again.

One of my links?

What Obama will bring to America:

Iraq’s Shi’ites Celebrate Ashura
Updated:14:54, Saturday January 19, 2008

Iraq was spared widespread bloodshed as Shi’ites celebrated the climax of festival of Ashura.

Pilgrims celebrate AsuraSecurity was tight in the city of Kerbala as 2.5 million pilgrims marked the end of the rite on Saturday.

But several Shi’ites were killed in a rocket attack in the town of Tal Afar, north of Baghdad.

Nearly 70 people were killed and 100 wounded on Friday in gun battles the cities Basra and Nassiriya between between security forces and gunmen from a messianic Shi’ite cult called the Soldiers of Heaven.

The 10-day Ashura ritual sees Shi’ites mourn the slaying over 13 centuries ago of the Prophet Mohammad’s grandson Imam Hussein near the holy city of Kerbala.

Pilgrims stuck their heads with swords and self-flagellated to show their grief.

Imam Hussein’s death in 680 entrenched the schism between Shi’ite and Sunni Muslims over whom they recognised as the successors of Mohammed.

The split still sharply divides Iraq, with tens of thousands killed in sectarian fighting since the US-led invasion in 2003.

Ashura has been a target in the past for Sunni al Qaeda militants who view Shi’ites as heretics.

Upon what do you base your claim that Christian Obama would bring that here? Sounds like insane BS to me.

Sol – it’s this garbage:

By Jack on February 2, 2008 at 4:39 am
Jack…

Ok, I’m not in complete agreement with this, but I see your point. Thanks for sharing….

By In Investing Preferred Stock on February 2, 2008 at 5:20 am
In Investing Preferred Stock…

Investing For Dummies Vhs Dvd…

By Kds Bbs Pics Childporn Underage Nudist on February 2, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Kds Bbs Pics Childporn Underage Nudist…

I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view…

By Bank Mortgage Reverse on February 2, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Bank Mortgage Reverse…

Here is something close to the truth, and they dont have any mercy…

From Obama’s Church, not Muslim, just racist. Only Black Christians welcome there?

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian… Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain “true to our native land,” the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

AND IT IS A GREAT CONGREGATION, IN A GREAT AND NOBLE DENOMINATION!!! AND TRY AS YOU LIKE, PAT, YOUR RACIST DRIVEL HAS BEEN DEBUNKED AT LEAST A DOZEN TIMES!!

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

http://www.ucc.org

Tap Herroni
Posted February 2, 2008 at 2:45 pm, 2:46 pm, & 2:59 pm
—

:lol:

Ah, the release of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth 2.0, just in time for elections in November.

I guess Pat’s faith that some Americans have never progressed beyond the ignorance of Bill the Butcher (The Gangs of New York is on display here.

Pat or anybody who’d listen to that kind of BS is one s-a-a-a-d puppy.

Hey Pat, you got your white sheet ready for the Rally Tuesday nite?? Klans all over have rallies every year on Shrove Tuesday… Yours having one in Wichita?? LOL You lying facist Racist Troll!! Lets hope your white shirt doesnt get burned by the flaming cross that you all like to burn!! CHICKENS!! RCISTS!!

Ben, do you think there are climate regions?

Obviously regular.

So the co2 levels in one region as compared to another region might vary widely, right Ben?

no

I’VE BEEN TURNED IN!

OH NO!

AND MY CAPS LOCK KEY IS BROKE TOO!

OH MY!
OH MY!
OH MY!

I’M TELLING MOM!

NEXT I’LL BE DAMNED TO HELL, BY A PREACHER!

PHONY PREACHER.

CALLS ALL TO CHRIST BY HIS WORDS AND DEEDS DOESN’T HE?

SHINING EXAMPLE.

BEACON OF LIGHT IN THE MIDST OF DARKNESS HE IS.

CALLING ALL TO BASK IN THE WARMTH OF HIS WARM WORDS AND COMFORT.

Somehow I just can’t believe that Pat & Friends will win a “transformative” election (November is shaping up to be an election framed by “hope”) with a message of misogyny. Americans are tired of Washington using fear to manipulate the vote (misogyny has, at its root, fear).

Did yall know that the FOX television program “24″ is no longer being aired?

Know why? It’s related to the reason Pat’s vote will be cancelled at the ballot box this year.

“Fear” doesn’t do well against “hope,” not for real Americans anyway.

NATHAN, YOU AT LEAST GOT IT RIGHT ON THE MISSION OF TRINITY UCC…. IT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHURCHES IN THEIR DENOMINATION!!

IT IS NOT A RACIST CHURCH!! IN SPITE OF WHAT PAT HERRON IS TRYING TO SAY, THAT CHURCH IS THERE FOR ALL PEOPLE… WHOEVER THEY ARE, WHEREVER THEY MAY BE IN THEIR FAITH JOURNEY!!

NO RACISM THERE… AT LEAST 25% OF THE MEMBERSHIP IS WHITE… HARDLY AN ALL BLACK CONGREGATION!! BUT PAT HERRON WILL KEEP LYING, BECAUSE PAT HERRON IS A EFFIN RACIST!!

YOU AIN’T SEEN NOTHIN YET

I met a devil woman.
She took my heart away.
She said I had it coming to me.
but I wanted it that way.
I think that any lovin’s good lovin.
So I took what I could get.
She looked at me with her big brown eyes and said.
you ain’t seen nothing yet….b.b.b.baby you just aint seen n.nothin yet
here’s somethin your just never gonna forget,
b.b.b.b. baby you just aint seen n.n. nothing yet
And now I’m feeling better.
Cause I found out for sure.
She took me to her doctor.
And he told me I was cured.
He said that any love is good love
so i took what i could get,
She looked at me with her big brown eyes and said
you ain’t seen nothing yet….b.b.b.baby you just ain’t seen n.n.nothin yet
here’s something
here’s something your never gonna forget baby,
you know
you know
you know you just ain’t seen n.n. nothin yet
any lovin is good lovin
so i took what i could get,
she looked at my with her big brown eyes and said
you aint seen nothin yet
baby you just aint seen n.n. othing yet
here’s somethin
here’s somethin
here’s somethin your never gonna forget baby
baby baby baby you just aint seen nothing yet
you aint seen nothing yet (repeat until fade)

Chas,

Calling me a liar is getting rather old.

Please continue in your melt down mode.

Aint that just effin special… One racist granting another racist absolution!! Hey, Racist Regular… He hasnt repented YET!!

NATHAN… you want to not be called a Liar???

Then YOU stop saying I am not a Christian, just because you dont agree with me!! Got It???

Otherwise, you remain a liar and a bigot!!

JimmyMac,

I apologize for not including your opinion that Scripps CO2 data was invalid, because there was an international revision.

Please re-draw this graph, to show the approximately 0.16 ppmv revision.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/insitu.html

Nathan — You might as well get used to it… LOTS of Christians dont agree with YOU!! Get over it!! You are NOT GOD!! Gee, I hope that doesnt damage your macho image too much!!

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/insitu.html

Note that CO2 tracks pretty much the same for Alaska and Hawaii.

Pat, that is the stupidest thing yet!! If you dont believe in Christ, you are hardly a Christian!!

I guess Ben decided not to answer my last question. :)
===========================
#
Regular
Posted February 2, 2008 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

Oh? Why is that Ben? You mean a jungle would have the same co2 levels as let’s say downtown London or the Mohave desert?
============================

Since Ben admitted there are climate regions, which means the climate is variable from one region to another – that must mean that measurements such as temperature, wind and humidity must differ.

Would this not influence the release of co2? I think it does.

So, if that is the case, the the combination of co2 into database from various climate regions around the world makes absolutely no sense. There is no “average” climate nor is there an “average” co2 reading.

But, this is exactly what the alarmists are trying to do with their “common sky (atmosphere) theory.”

If average co2 was a reality, then every place on earth would have similar temperatures. They don’t and will never happen, because there are a huge amount of natural variation factors that affect climate far greater than co2 does.

Chas, new “24″ episodes are off the air because FOX couldn’t resolve a change to the lead character before the writers’ strike.

Reruns are off the air, too. According to the WSJ, the ratings were in the tank last season due to changing American attitudes about torture. Because FOX didn’t have time before the strike to resolve the show’s new direction, executives decided to prevent damage to its flagship program by letting the show go completely dormant. No reruns, in other words.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120189888101136151.html?mod=hps_us_pageone

I am not telling YOU anything, Troll Racist!!

I have said repeatedly I AM A CHRISTIAN!!

Now, either you accept that, or you dont… If not, just SHUT THE F*** UP ABOUT IT!!

We all KNOW you dont believe in Christ, or you wouldnt be posting Racist Garbage!!

Chas can’t answer the most basic question any Christian is proud to answer as obligated to spread the word of God.

Chas, do you hear weeping and gnashing of teeth yet?

Regular – I DID answer your question. At ground level there are localized differences. However more broadly there are not as can be seen from the consistency among measurements at Hawaii, Alaska, Antarctica, etc. So, we CAN determine the global averages which are what we follow.

As I noted – I recommend an elementary climatology text. Climate regions are determined by things like altitude, latitude, proximity to mountains, etc etc etc.

WSU has some courses you might consider.

“If average co2 was a reality, then every place on earth would have similar temperatures” FALSE STATEMENT.

Phony Preachers are perhaps the most harmful threat to Christianity today.

Beware of those “Christians” who act in the name of Christ, yet are unable to proclaim him as their personal savior.

Through his words and his deeds, satan shall reveal himself.

Fear not, for victory shall not be his.

I’ve been to St. Paul’s Church before… I think its neat that they never patched up the hole in the wall… Met the Pastor there many years ago… My sis lived in Newport News for years… then moved over to Yorktown… Her hubby was a police officer on the Hampton Department for 24+ years, AFTER 20+ years in the Army… I have many fond memories of the Tidewater area…

Ben
Posted February 2, 2008 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

Regular – I DID answer your question. At ground level there are localized differences. However more broadly there are not as can be seen from the consistency among measurements at Hawaii, Alaska, Antarctica, etc. So, we CAN determine the global averages which are what we follow.

As I noted – I recommend an elementary climatology text. Climate regions are determined by things like altitude, latitude, proximity to mountains, etc etc etc.

WSU has some courses you might consider.

“If average co2 was a reality, then every place on earth would have similar temperatures” FALSE STATEMENT
———————–
So then, you state that co2 averages would be false and I agree.

Then what about the claim of average temperatures?

I mean how does the average temperature of a climate region, let’s say around the South Pole compare to the average temperature of the Gobi Desert in Mongolia?

Can I make a prediction about future climate change knowing the average temperature of these two climate regions?

What about knowing the average temperature of all climate regions?

And exactly what is the optimum temperature for the planet earth? :)

If the areas around oceans have about 1 atmosphere of pressure and this pressure is what is utilized to analyze wind construction of storm fronts, what angular progression of prediction can I extrapolate to determine the climate of a region on the other side of the world that may be at 20,000 feet in altitude?

be back later, I’ll let you ponder that one Ben. :)

Obviously it is colder at the South Pole than the Gobi. So what? And yes, we do make projections regionally as well as globally.

“you state that co2 averages ” I never said that. I said your statement (i.e. your conclusion) was and is FALSE. The fact that the South Pole and Hawaii have similar CO2 (as measured) does NOT mean they have the same temperature.

As for your last question I have no clue even what you asked. Again, I suggest a textbook – it especially helps to have maps and figures. I fine a globe useful as well.

CO is trying to give JayHawks a good run for their money!! KS has 3 pt lead middle of 2nd half.. Hang on Hawks!! Wildcats already lost to Mizzou…

I think K-State really spooked them bad in Manhattan!!

Obviously those are all factors – and they are all included in our understanding of climets. So what’s your point?

Yes, it might be condescending. But, just as that is how I learned, so that might be how you might learn. I don’t think I can teach meterology or climatology on a blog.

Ben posted February 2, 2008 at 4:15 pm

“As for your last question I have no clue even what you asked.”

JimmyMac’s climate questions are nonscientific nonsense, just like his claims about climate.

I see Capn UnAmerica is at it again,
playing as the blog troll and trying
to label and name all the bloggers.

Come on down Capn
and take a free ride.

Yeah, yeah, yeah!

Cause we got to get it on again,
work it out together.

Learn to support Obama!

Ben,

It’s also interesting how the CO2 levels at the top of the towers in mainland U.S.,
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/diurnal.html

are roughly similar to Mauna Loa’s levels.

Plus larger seasonal variations at WI than at NC.

Tap Herroni Posted February 2, 2008 at 4:04 pm | Permalink Through his words and his deeds, satan shall reveal himself.

Fear not, for victory shall not be his.
===========================================

You should know… You are his faithful disciple of HATRED and RACISM!! LOL

Ken — If I was in Wichita, I would surely go see the play… Your description sounds terrific!

Earlier, somebody posted a list of campaign contributions to Ron Paul’s campaign… showing that military contributions top the list…

Just a thought here — Given Ron Paul’s aversion to all things military, doesnt it strike you a bit odd that so many contributions would come to his campaign from Military personnel?? I mean, if he DID get elected, he would most likely be eliminating a whole LOT of military jobs — right??

Even when Regular is obviously handed his newly cleaned clock on a silver platter, he storms off the Blog, and claims to be the winner!!

Used to be this kid in our neighborhood who did that same kind of thing… We eventually didnt let him come play basketball anymore!! That kid could lose by 20 points, and stomp away grumbling how he couldnt play with people of less skill than he had… even though he had clearly been beaten —

Just like REgular does here!! ROFL brings back real funny memories!!

“Regent Law School grads were unleashed on the Justice Department, courtesy of Augustus Stupidus. Remember that? If Robertson’s bid is accepted, I’m canceling my subscription.”

yea, I do remember that… I also remember how one of the “attorneys” that stood up with Monica Lewinsky, and one of the other “Clinton Girls” was that radical right winger, Jay Sekulow… Remember him?? He even predates Bush, and came out of Regents Univ.

Thanks for the basketball analogy Chas. If we were playing basketball, Ben would have got his ass kicked. My specialty was tomahawking the ball over people and making them eat net.

I hope you enjoy your nice newly cleaned clock, James… Ben stopped talking to you, because you were asking nonsense questions… like normal… Except for Ben and Cosmos know when you are talking Bogus junk… Those of us NON scientists are never sure… but we suspect it…

Make sure that clock is all wound up, now… you wouldnt want to be late for anything important!!

Okay Chas, fake minister. Or is it you are a Satanic minister?

Perhaps your congregation would enjoy reading what you print here.

Eat net Chas is a term referring to basketball as well. it’s when someone gets underneath you when you go into slam and all they see is the ball slashing through the net onto their face. It’s also called “facial.”

I would put you in the same category as Phelps, but Phelps isn’t a hypocrite, he practices what he preaches. You on the other hand are all over the board and no doubt are one the slimiest two-faced hypocrites to ever roam the earth. You’re a con man Chas, nothing else.

FURTHERMORE, whast YOU describe as an attempt at a slam dunk — ummm you stupid fool, is only going to get a Foul called… Either on the one attempting the dunk, OR, the one underneath… the way YOU describe it, all you would get is a Foul, since your description is of running head long into another player already having position on you!!

Like I said, YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A LOSER!!

THAT WAS A REFERENCE TO YOUR SORRY A$$ NUMB NUTS!!

I am going to say to you again, what I said to you last year about this same time… YOU sir, are a sorry excuse for a Veteran of this nations honorable military service… and YOU sir are even a sorrier excuse for a MAN!! You have no respect for academic achievement, or ranking in society… You make a mockery out of anything religious that doesnt fit your narrow-minded bigoted mentality… YOU Sir, can go to Hell for all I care… There are few individuals in this world that I care absolutely nothing for…

Unfortunately, there are several like that on this Blog!! And YOU, James, are at the top of my list!! YOU are a worthless, crippled old hypocrite!! I am sorry you are crippled… Only YOU can do anything about the worthless and the hypocrite parts!!

Now, if you can be civil, and act human on here, I MIGHT address you… Otherwise, YOU sir, are a huge piece of persona non grata!! And You can just leave me the HELL alone!!! GOT IT?? Worthless!! Absolutely Worthless, James!! Worthless Veteran… Worthless MAN…. Just an old crippled up hypocrite!! How sad you are!!

Chas,

Understanding what’s wrong with E.G. Beck’s bogus CO2 claims doesn’t really require much science.

Look at the CO2 graphs here,
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/insitu.html

The yearly swings are largest for Barrow (Alaska) — and are mostly caused by plants. There is more land in the Northern Hemisphere, and more plants. Each Spring in the NH, plants absorb more CO2, and in the Fall, they release it.

Beck claims that CO2 was above 400 ppm back in the 1940’s (higher than it is today) — but there’s no credible explanation for that huge rise in CO2 back then, nor the huge drop a short time later.

The only credible explanation is the obvious point Ben made upthread. Beck’s high readings are not representative of global CO2 levels.

http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/02/open-thread-21-2/#comment-286339

“…but there’s no credible explanation for that huge rise in CO2 back then, nor the huge drop a short time later.”

Yeah, no explanation other than half the world was on fire from War.

Thank the stars! I just got word that WEB is going with registration before allowing someone to post!

Maybe the nut jobs will finally be eliminated!

Haven’t we needed to be registered for some time now? Is there another change coming?

“Maybe the nut jobs will finally be eliminated!”

Dont count on it!! LOL

Billy Bob–

Did you want to post something but you chose not to because you had to log in?

That’s your problem then . . .

Well, bring on registration. I don’t think it will get rid of this nut job ;-), but IF the spammers are stopped that’s a good step in the right direction.

If we have registration will posters still be able to post under several nics? Will it stop them from posting under my nic if mine is already registered?

I really am as dumb about all this as I sound. Don’t even know the right questions, let along any answers.

I see they got rid of the Spam Bammer thing…

I didn’t report it, Chas.

I’m sick of trying to get through to the Editors.

They know how to clean this place up, and they won’t do it.

But they’ll make money selling ads that our hits make valuable . . .

If anybody likes late nite public radio, “Midnight Special” is on at http://www.hppr.org click on Listen Now… Live streaming program… no registration… FREE…

You won’t have to give your name, JR.

You’ll just need an e-mail.

People who get banned can re-register, but they’ll also have to get a new e-mail.

Usually there’s a 24-48 lag time.

Doesn’t make it impossible to troll, but it sure makes it a lot harder and a lot less fun.

http://www.moviesanddown****.com/

Yup. I picked this up from an old open thread.

I don’t know for sure, but it probably links to a site in which you can break copy-right and download movies.

The Wichita Eagle WEBlog seems like a funny place to allow people to steal intellectual property, since that’s what they deal in . . .

CapN… That is sort of like what I keep getting in my Email when certain posters are lurking on the Blog… Only I get a LOT of them for “adult” web sites, and even some for kiddy pic sites… disgusting!

But it only happens when I am on WE Blog!! I just havent figured that out yet!! BUT, I have an IT friend of mine working on it!!

Hey, Check this out… Just got this link in an email from some old friends in Clevelans >>>

http://www.ucc.org/news/thomas-denounces-smear-1.html

Capn,

Here’s a very good example from JimmyMac.

Regular posted February 2, 2008 at 6:13 pm

“Ben in my opinion is nothing more than a chemistry clod who may have been something at one time, although I don’t see how he was with that attitude he carries around.”

Some blogs have a credibilty rating system. For posters like JimmyMac, it’d have to have a large negative rating.

Heh, funny, Cos.

Good link, Chas.

Okay, I’m out for the night.

Seize ya later . . .

The POWER of Chas displayed at 10:23.

Wow!

Chas is you are getting p*rno emails then someone using your computer is visiting p*rno sites.

Check your cookies.

Ummm Pat?? WEBlog has the IP addresses of the p*rno emails… One of their IT people is working on the situation. It isnt coming from MY computer. Sorry, wrong again Pat!!

Ya just cant fix stoopid!!

My other sister used to have a problem with p–n emails being sent to her and spam programs downloaded to her computer. So I got her some nice software, virus protection, etc. and a nice little proggie called a keylogger. It records letter by letter what is typed on a computer unknown to the user.

When I checked the times of the messages and the contents, I found that it was when my sister was a work. The times always occurred about 3pm or so, the time that school let out.

It turns out that her son and his friend were visiting p==n sites when they got home from school. Not an uncommon practice among teenagers as I have since found out.

Anyway, one particular sequence of letters recorded by the keylogger busted the identity of the perpetrator as he logged in on his email.

Instead of telling my sister, I used the newly gained access I had to my nephew’s friends email account and sent him an email. I posted the details and how I would inform my sister, but his parents.

The problem stopped. :)

Oh yeah, a word to they wise, people unknown to you, can upload a keylogger program to your computer if you download from an unknown site. Then, they can become you.

So Regular,

You know of any way that p**n could show up on a computer where the user hasn’t at one point visited one or more p**n sites?

Chas is busted.

Oh Chas fess up.

Stop the lily white innocent lamb routine.

You made the mistake of complaining about this p*rn stuff on the blog, now you can’t retract it.

You were too stupid to realize how the spammers work, and didn’t know that your lustin after hot lil girls on the Internet would ever be discovered.

Repent Chas.

If you believe in Jesus as your personal savior, are truly sorry, and confess your sins, you will be forgiven.

Just don’t go to those sites anymore.

Wow, very eloquent comment JR.

You are simply amazing.

I bask in the glow of your enlightened superior mind.

Now go figure out how to take care of your own kid. I’m tired of paying for him. Why don’t you go pay for your own?

JR,

You’ve said on this blog that you can’t afford healthcare for your kid.

I didn’t bring that up. YOU did.

Answer to yourself.

I answer to me. And I pay for healthcare for all 3 of my kids.

Why don’t you take care of your own? You have so much time to blog, yet you can’t work?

I’m tired of paying for you.

Are you not tired of getting free handouts?

Max, if you could only READ… You would clearly see I complained about getting EMAILS for P*rn sites — YOU and James are the lying SOBS that are trying to make something of it — Please dont make me go pull my own posts about it… just admit that you are a lying SOB about it, and it will be over…

I ALSO posted that the offensive emails had been sent to SPAM… AND to the IT guys at WEBlog…

Now, do you still want to keep on with your LIES??? Or are you going to go back to your whining and groaning about Taxes???

About the lies,

I have no motivation to lie about Chas and his p*rn problem. Chas brought it up, I really don’t care.

Lying about it? Who has motivation to lie about p*rn? The jerk-off who brought it up.

As for JR, HE has admitted and whined about not having health insurance for his kid. I’m not lying about that.

JR/Chas, goodbye. You are both sick. Seek help.

Max, nice try on the spin… I did not say ONE WORD about JR’s son… I asked you why you continue to LIE about JR’s employment!! Anybody reading this thing can easily see that… you’re not cute… its not funny when you so grossly fail to read what is typed clearly….

I also stated CLEARLY that I was receiving P*rn EMAIL, Max… EMAIL…. NOT web sites, you ding a ling!!

I really DO challenge your reading ability on this one…. You LIED about what I stated… NOW, you want to weasel out of it!!

Pfffft!!! on you!!!

HERE YA GO MAX — Here is what YOU LIED about regarding my post about p*rn EMAILS —

You INTENTIONALLY LIE about what my concern is… And MAX, old man, it aint about going to WEB SITES…. As YOU LIE ABOUT HERE!!

READ WHAT YOU SAID MAX…. I never posted ONE WORD about visiting p*rn sites…. I griped about getting p*rn EMAIL you nut case… NOW READ HOW YOU MANAGED TO LIE ABOUT IT >>>

“You were too stupid to realize how the spammers work, and didn’t know that your lustin after hot lil girls on the Internet would ever be discovered.

Repent Chas.

If you believe in Jesus as your personal savior, are truly sorry, and confess your sins, you will be forgiven.

Just don’t go to those sites anymore.”

good night max… i hope you will now stop lying… about ME… and about JR’s employment… If I was JR, I would be boiling mad at you over that!! How totally irresponsible of you!!

Good night max… I do hope you sleep well with your lies!!

JR — I dont think Max is one of James’s inventions… nor KsGrm… I tend to agree with you on American Way, and also Pat Herron…

Hang in there!! I just get tired of seeing them tear you apart for not working EVERY DAY!!