WE Blog

George, you and yours are the best advertisement the democrats have!

There may be hope for Kansas, yet.

It was not all crossover appeal.
Some of us registered as democrats just to do whatever we can – to eliminate a Clinton Dynasty.

This was more important for me, than voting in the republican race. I’ll be registered back soon.

“He noted that John F. Kennedy didn’t have much more experience than Obama when he became president.”

And Randy Scholfield might be a great editorial writer, but he should include facts with his fiction.

John F Kennedy:

Served in the House of Reps in Congress
1947-1953 (that would be six years)
Served in the US Senate
1953-1961 (that would be eigth years)

Total of 14 years experience for JFK.

Obama:

Served in the House of Reps in Congress since 2004

Less than 4 years experience.

No comparison.

Not to mention JFK’s experience trained as an officer in the US Navy and his experience during WWII. (Many consider military leadership, as experience in leading)

It is “because” of that loose media connection that no one is reporting the FACTS.

The media, would be doing a GREAT service, if they reported these FACTS. Obviously, the voters haven’t heard them. Usually, newspapers would exploit and reveal these sort of facts. But I guess that is only relevant if a conservative.

Everyone is in such a rush to believe in a JFK/Obama comparison, that no one is discussing the facts: similiarities/differences.

There are also differences between JFK’s actions in congress and president contrasted to Obama, which should be discussed.

Do you want to believe in another Camelot?

Or do you want the truth?

Vaughn, you can imagine I hesitated to even bring that up. It muddied my main point. But I realized that the opposition will be using McCain’s military experience as a particularly qualifying factor (American hero some have said).

So if someone is to compare JFK to Obama, that becomes an argument.

What defines experience? Leadership just oozed out of this old veteran, when I think about a future leader.

Agree in the future we will have many veterans running for president. But that is not today.

See, Obama seems to be Republican-lite. Oh how that irks me. They’re too darn lazy to get out and try to change their own party from going down, so they come and hijack mine.

No kidding.

The Dems ran out of registration forms, so they started photo-copying them.

Then they RAN OUT OF PAPER. My wife had to help them out by running home and scooping up most of a ream so they could keep up.

This is the Barack Obama effect. Nobody’s switching to vote for Billary . . .

” No, but when things get tough for Obama, he gets a little stressed out, he looks for his little baggie of Cocaine.”

Wow. I LOVE the smell of wingnut desperation in the air. Even I wouldnt have shot such a low blow at Obama.

lie much?

Pmom, thanks for all you and yours did last night. Your efforts have not gone unnoticed. To stand firm in your committment in the face of overwhelming odds is a sign of integrity.

And even if we dont always agree, you’ve got it!

Hey Capn when did they get done there around 2?

I gave up at 8:30.

And many of your crossovers and Obama supporters are not very nice. I mentioned to one that I did not think Republicans could be worked with and it was foolish of Obama to think so.

“Well we don’t need you. We will have the Republicans.” was the reply.

Max, if a Democrat cured cancer, you would say that it was no big deal, and the Republicans made him do it anyway.

And if George W Bush was caught eating kittens alive, you would say that the cats were al Qaeda sympathizers and George was just keeping us safe.

Your partisanship exceeds even that of Rush O’Hannity and that takes a lot of doing.

Crossover in Kansas is not surprising. They did it for sebelius. Why, upon her recommendation, wouldnt they do THIS for her?

Oh, and btw, I’ve staged a few politcal events myself. Somethings are standard tactics, like putting out fewer chairs than the number of people you expect so the room looks full and SRO.

I suspect some of the “running out of paper” is the same staging. And I gotta wonder… if the weather would have been better, would older Clinton voters been more likely to show up?

We dont know. But EVERYONE predicted obama would carry Kansas. And dont forget, he has hometown ties to Eldorado.

The BIG surprise would have been if obama had LOST kansas.

Yaaaaaawwwwwnnnnn.

Wow, we’ll sure miss you, Am Way . . .

Wait a minute, no we won’t.

People like YOU, AmWay, we don’t even WANT your vote.

Huh.

It has been elsewhere speculated that party insiders are gaming things for Obama.

Maybe last night I saw the proof?

The Obama people got the big airy gym. Clinton supporters were herded into a hot, stuffy auditorium.

Definitely something to ponder.

November is a very long time away. :)

Well… Jesus WEPT JR!

““Well we don’t need you. We will have the Republicans.” was the reply.”

THAT has been the standard Sebelius and KDP line for YEARS.

And… btw… it’s what Sebelius people AND the KDP say to gay folks all the time.

Welcome to MY world!

Ksfrmgrrl–

This nit-picking of yours isn’t very attractive.

The Dems didn’t PLAN to run out of paper for heaven’s sake. It was a caucus, not media theater.

As for the Hillary people, they didn’t count their supporters as they came into their area as we did. So we were already done when they were getting their sh*t together.

I suspect some of the “running out of paper” is the same staging. And I gotta wonder…

That’s right Farmgirl. It’s election fraud all over again. Did you see ACORN?

Amway, ignore the child. He’s pissed-off his woman didn’t win in Kansas.

We got the gym where we had to stand for 90 mins.

They got the comfortable seats in the Auditorium.

Also, we outnumbered them by 3 to one so of course we got the larger area.

The Dem organizers planned on putting EVERYBODY in the auditorium . . .

BTW, Ksfrmgrrl, why don’t you tell us about the three people and a baby who went to your caucus?

Oh, and I bet the “baby” was representing the “youth vote” for Obama?

HEE HEE HEE HEE HEEEEEEE….

And, at Newman there were children and they sat in an area designated for spectators! There was also an area designated for Undecided, and supporters of Edwards… We asked those last to join us. How could it have happened so differently depending on where you were caucusing?

By the way JR, I had people in wheelchairs, with canes, who stood or sat and waited that whole time. Till 9. Surely if they could, you could have too.

I’ll also tell you, I ran the count and the vote for delegates. One of the old party dems came over and made issue with the way I was doing it. I asked for volunteers who wanted to run as delegates and alternates. So we get this done, and he comes over and starts having a fit because we didn’t do it the way he wanted us to. He said everyone needed a paper ballot so they could contest. Everyone GROANED and started saying they didn’t want to do it that way. We voted by show of hands. Well then he says no, he’s going to do it. So what does he do? He does the EXACT SAME THING I just did. And when they started yelling at him that I did that, he said “well I contest the results”.

That is what we deal with from our chair in our county seat for the dem party. And they can’t figure out why they cant’ get new people.

It made one of the guys so mad, he vowed that he was going to email the ks dem party about it.

Were you in Mactown? I bet I know JUST who the geezer was.

Heh. Good one Rage. I’m just tellin’ ya, shortages are how you stage a political event. EVERYONE predicted record turnouts. What, the organizers dont read the papers? :)

kfg, as to Mactown, the person in question likely reads the local paper; he just has very severe problems with short term memory…..

Hey captain, as for your “three people and a baby” smart ass remark…

here’s what happened in Hays. I told ya Glenn Staab would get the Obama supporters there.

http://www.hdnews.net/Story/caucus020608

And I noticed that in Peterson’s caucus, there must have been FOUR adults there ’cause that’s how many delegates they elected.

Unless they sent the baby…

With all due respect, Farm Grrl, you took great offense to an alleged opponent of gay rights that introduced Obama at a rally, rightly so.

Then, why haven’t you similarly condemned Bob Johnson (BET founder)that intro’ed Hillary by suggesting that Obama was “up to something back in the neighborhood?”

And, the husband of the Governor of New Hampshire, on the Clinton staff suggesting that Barack was a drug dealer?

And Bill Clinton suggesting (not exact words) that Hillary only lost SC because she is white?

And the Clinton reference to Jesse Jackson’s previous primary wins in SC, implying that Obama only won because of his skin color?

JFK: Cut taxes. Said “ask not what your country can do for you…”

Obama: Will raise taxes. Says “go ahead and ask, we’ll give it, the handout store is open.”

“Or maybe die in a wet suit, with a dildo up his butt.”

“…throw the gay community under the bus…”

Like you just did with your rude comments?

Libs: say one thing, say another.

Fleetie, living in a closet makes one do strange things sometimes, and people who live in the religious denial can have particularly strange tastes. And I guess you missed the reference:

“Friend of Falwell” minister dies during bizarre sex play

http://cliffschecter.bravenewfilms.org/blog/15392-minister-dies-during-bizarre-sex-ritual

Max, I think we should just get rid of the office of president. Let congress make all the decisions. Maybe the next time the country comes under attack we’d get a decision quicker.

The JFK quote was,

Ask not what you can do for your country,
beg for what you country can do for you,
because you be too dumb and poor,
to take care of your own.

(New Living Revised Version 8.6)

“Face it, you didn’t want Bill being sucha boon for Hillary’s campaign, so you found a reason to try to get him out.”

Absolutely wrong – couldn’t be any further from the truth – but I would expect, that as a former President – he would behave in a manner more consistent with his stature.

But don’t take my word for it, witness the backlash and the large number of Dems defecting from the Clinton camp.

I was fine with the Clinton v. Obama contest until the accusations of drug dealing and the race baiting from the Clinton campaign staff.

Hillary Clinton has managed to alienate a significant portion of the Democratic base.

Not kin that I know of KFG. There’re a few in Ellis we’re not related with. None of the Disneys or the Chrystlers for sure.

They all suck.

Lesser of two evils.

And this is different from normal. . . how?

Hmmmm… No one has yet said that Bill had his facts wrong about SC. Interesting that the offended community is so sensitive that just MENTIONING some facts pisses them off. Whatever. The Clintons, both of them, have ALWAYS been on the right side of civil rights issues.

And lest I be guilty of just attacking obama, here is what someone else said about what Hillary has done for the gay community. I’ll let them say it.

http://gaysocialites.com/2008/01/the_gay_community_must…

“Senator Clinton has worked very hard for LGBT community throughout her political career.”

“Hillary opposed the Federal Marriage Amendment (FMA) and helped to defeat it twice on the floor of the United States Senate. The LGBT community and activists turned to Hillary Rodham Clinton in both 2004 and again in 2006 to help defeat the FMA.”

“While First Lady, Hillary broke with the Clinton Administration and called for the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy.”

“Senator Clinton has been a leader in the fight for increased AIDS funding and access to services for HIV positive and AIDS patients. Hillary wrote the Early Treatment for HIV Act that would allow states to provide Medicaid coverage to low-income individuals living with HIV.”

“Hillary Rodham Clinton supports a trans-inclusive Employment Non Discrimination Act (ENDA). She favors ending discrimination in the workplace against individuals based on sexual orientation and gender identity.”

“Hillary is also the strongest champion of full adoption rights for LGBT couples.”

“Gay and lesbian couples are just as loving and nurturing as any other parents,” Clinton said. “Anyone who thinks children are better off in foster care or orphanages than in a home where they are cared for and loved by a same-sex couple just doesn’t understand a child’s best interest.”

“Hillary Clinton has a proven track record of working for us! That’s the lady I want as my President! If you live in one of those all important “Super Tuesday” states, then I encourage you to go out and support a candidate who really supports our community. The gay community MUST get behind Hillary Clinton!”

Which is exactly WHY that comment was misconstrued, there was NO reason to take his comment as racist. None.

BOTH of their records show just the opposite and you know it. I think it is so sad you’re buying that Republican rhetoric.

“Again, with all due respect and affection, you once again didnt defend obama, but attacked Hillary. Seems to be a pattern.”

Wrong – I asked why – simple.

It is EASY to apologize after the fact, even to “fire” (wink, wink) the staffer responsible – but the damage is already done and it plays to a stereotype that some still hold on to.

But, give me the particulars on “Donnie McCloset,” I doubt that is his real name, so let me research.

I posted a link last week. Google Donnie McClurkin + killing our children.

I’ll see if I can find the link again.

Okay, good comments from P-Mom and Ksgrrl.

I respect your positions. I agree that the caucus last night was poorly run. But it was ordinary ineptness and inertia, not a planned mess.

As for why I “want to work with Republicans,” it’s very simple–I think a lot of Republicans, the vast majority in fact, see that business-as-usual is not working. They see that BushCo does not represent them. Neither do the Swift Boats or ‘Pukes like Jeff Sessions or KKKarl Rove.

Those are the Republicans I feel we can find common ground with.

The Republicans here–Hank, Econ, Max, Regular–do not represent the thinking majority. They want an El Duce to whip this country into shape, and they imagine themselves in brown shirts doing the whipping.

Those people are too far gone for anything positive.

BTW, Ksgrrm. Two of my gay friends were caucusing for Obama last night.

Apparently not everybody in the GLBT community sees McClurkin as a hood wearing gay-lyncher.

Sorry, I’m so in love with the sound of my own words I forgot to post the link :)

http://www.nbjcoalition.org/news/nbjc-responds-to-obamadonnie.html

Yeah, and it is estimated that 25% of the gay vote in 2004 went to BUSH!

I never said we were smart. Hell, even Melissa Etheridge endorsed obama.

But ya gotta wonder what causes such self loathing that someone would support a candidate who works against ya.

But that’s the gay community in a nutshell. Look how many support governor “leadership”.

Well, you found something far more positive that I could, KFG. This is good.

Obams’s electioneering crap aside, I’m going to keep trying to uncover his positions over time, on the concrete issues you listed.

Could be interesting.

Damn, forgot the linky again.

http://www.americablog.com/2008/01/obama-and-gays-again.html

Interesting link, KFG. I remember John Aravosis from when both of us were on Declan McCullagh’s email list. Sharp guy.

And more to think about.

I have relatives on the other side who are black. P Momma

Must be the ones on the dark side.
Or the ones on da wrong side of da traks.

“I don’t dislike Obama, I think he’s fine. But he simply doens’t have what we need right now.”

I caucused for Hillary last night. J R it was done about 9:00 p.m.

P.M., from what I could see last night, the Dems will lose (maybe narrowly win) if Obama is not on the ticket – so, he does indeed have something (the ability to inspire young voters) WE NEED. It is time for a deal to be struck between Clinton and Obama – they need each other. Obama needs to at least be V.P.

There were about 15 million people last night who cast a vote for either Clinton or Obama (80 thousand more for Obama). Approximately 7 million people voted for McCain, Huckabee, and Romney. Pretty telling totals and maybe a reason why outlander is providing us with amusing rhymes.

I could support Obama also in the VP slot. I think he needs to take the edge off his hubris and learn a little about the wingnut visciousness. But Hillary would have to be at the TOP of the ticket in order for me to support his OJT.

Better concentrate on Congressional races, too, if a Democrat is elected President and s/he wants to get things done from day 1.

True enough Hank.

“If it’s Hillary, what does he do?”

I dont know what he WILL do, but whatever it is, it will be telling as to how much of a Democrat he is.

Hell, he hasnt even said he would support the party’s nominee if it isnt him. We’ll see if he’s really a uniter or a divider.

Hubris? Or Uniter.

Time will tell.

Yer right VT. I’ll believe all this kumbaya from “crossover” voters when they stop voting for hacks like tankerless and ol’ rubber stamp.

THAT’s when we’ll know they really want change.

Yeah, it’s all the cross over voters fault!

Betrayed by the dark side!

“ksfarmgrrl” –

I read your serial posts over at the open thread and most of the stuff you’ve posted to attack Barack Obama’s candidacy. All I can wonder is, should Senator Obama get the nomination, how you’re gonna run to McCain or Romney for someone who’s in perfect compliance with your personal agenda.

Neither front-runner for the Democratic nomination clones my personal beliefs and opinions. You and poor “J R” are so frustrated — and I recognize that frustration — by the conservative-dominated mainstream media you seem to have lost track of the goal.

Yeah, I wanna waterboard Newt Gingrich and Tom DeLay ’til they admit they were only in Congress for the power, money, and cooch. But that’s yesterday’s battle.

Every right-wing blog and blogger I read wants to renew the 1990s — we’ve seen it here will all the “Filegate,” “Vince Foster,” “Whitewater,” “Rose Law Firm,” “Futures-gate,” “Arlington-gate,” “Mena-gate” crap, et al. Though none of those fake “scandals” ever amounted to anything, the conservative-dominated mainstream media put them in play and we can be assured they’ll be put in play again if Senator Clinton is the Democrats’ nominee.

Frankly, I don’t wanna face all that Clinton crap again. Perhaps there’s a whole lotta new Obama crap the Limbaughtomized Masses might come up with, but I doubt it. Hannity and Limbaugh and Coulter and Beck et al are already and recently on the record for accusing McCain of being a “liberal.” Think they’re gonna cozy up to him in the General Election?

Think McCain or Romney or Huckabee are gonna embrace your GLBT isssues in the General?

In 2000 and 2004 we had two 50-50% elections. I genuinely feel Senator Clinton could win a third 50-50 election and could be a terrific President.

But I sincerely believe — and I’ve seen it in a rural Kansas caucus and the rally in El Dorado — that Senator Obama transcends the crap that has so poisoned the political process in America for the past decade or two.

I am so *not* anti-Hillary as I am pro-Obama. Simply because I’ve seen something in the electorate that’s gonna get us out of the 50-50% presidential election morrass we’ve got ourselves into.

Some philospher once wrote, “Pick your enemies carefully, for they are whome you’ll come closest to resemble.”

Your “enemy” is not Barack Obama. “J R’s” “enemy” isn’t really mainstream Republicans. The crazies have taken over the Republic Party and we’re seeing the evidence when they call John McCain — JOHN McCAIN, for chrissakes!!! — too “liberal!”

Perhaps you, “ksfarmgrrl,” have taken it for granted that any Democrat will win the presidency and are holding out for your preferred candidate. I was burned by that thinking when Al Gore won the 2000 election but was such a lame candidate he didn’t win it going away. I was convinced and still believe John Kerry would have spent the last three years in the Oval Office with better results than Shrub, but he was a piss-poor candidate.

I believe Barack Obama can transcend the desperate attacks of Right Wing Anti-Clintonism better than another Clinton.

I want a landslide!

I want FDR in 1932!

I want to put the Republic Party into the dustbin of history along with the Whigs.

I fear it ain’t gonna happen with Senator Clinton.

We have a better chance with Obama.

All of us.

Ben, take a look at recent history, at the winners:

2000: (Fake) winner: A governor, and a Defense secretary/former congressman.

2000: (Real) winner: 2 Senators.

1992: A governor, and a Senator.

1988: A VP, and a Senator.

Your conventional wisdom isn’t even particularly conventional.

I can deal with Obama at the top of the ticket ONLY if Senator Clinton gets to be VP in the same way Cheney has.

I will not vote for Obama on his own. I do not trust someone who wants to work with the enemy.

J R – consider this: Obama is not looking to work with the enemy. The enemy is the right-wing fringe typified by Limbaugh and Larson. Obama is seeking to with with those who are derisively called RINOs. People like the Republican woman Paul called an idiot for rejecting Romney when he proudly proclaimed himself the laeder of those crazies.

Max;
The Republican party nearly made a saint out of that old geezar who said in office up to his last breath. Can’t remember his name but they almost had to prop the old dude up for the roll count and he was always doseing off during the sesion. You know, the guy who fathered a black child then hid it for nearly 50 some years? So every party has it scourge!

My vote will not go to anyone of the Republican candidates! Especially that J-A Mitt Romney! I can’t stand tha A-Hole! Always talking negative and how about his stand on the war? “Yeah, Stand for supporting the military. What’s that? What about my boys….You ask why they aren’t in the military? Er, They have other things to do…like help me run for office. Besides, there are other boys who can stand in for them. Let them do the fighting!” That’s just one of the many reason I can’t stand this guy! All for the war yet not one of his five sons has EVER served militarily. If you haven’t served you have no right to ask others to go to war. NEVER!!!!

OMR, you are referring to the late Senator Strom Thurmond. Dixiecrat candidate for President in 1948, switched from the Democratic party to the Republican party at some point (date escapes me) in his Senate career.

“I can deal with Obama at the top of the ticket ONLY if Senator Clinton gets to be VP in the same way Cheney has.

“I will not vote for Obama on his own. I do not trust someone who wants to work with the enemy.”

Fortunately, I think this position is in a very distinct and tiny minority.

An Obama/Clinton or a Clinton/Obama ticket would provide a landslide victory (a 2 to 1 margin) for the democrats. I think this is needed as a symbolic repudiation of the last 8 years.

I heard an analysis on NPR that voters do not get this involved unless they are angry about the current political situation. Clinton/Obama would be a perfect way to express this loathing.

Steven – good point. The overwhelming sentiment I detected last night was that it is time to give the Republicans a good old-fashioned butt-kicking!

Ben, As I’ve read today maybe that overwhelming sentiment you and I both detected last night was only prevalent at the caucus held at Newman?

It was chaotic but even that seemed encouraging to those I was around last night. All those Democrats who knew how important it was to come out even in a blizzard were absolutely sure that no matter who we were “standing for” on that night we would be a unified force to be dealt with come November. I heard it over and over from people supporting both Obama and Clinton.

The national figures from those who went out to vote or caucus also show the Democratic Party is ready to kick some butt!

Ben, Steven,

You guys might just want to cool your little Republican-butt-kicking jets a little!

I can think of no one that would bring out the Republican vote more than a Hillary.

I wouldn’t vote for McCain for any reason other than if he was running against Hillary.

A lot of Obama’s vote is against Hillary, not for Obama. He is winning states that would not normally go for a democrat president. Looks good in the primaries but not much help in the general.

Trust me, Hillary could cost you guys the presidency and even congressional seats. How many of the dems voting for Obama can’t stand the thought of Monica’s ex-boyfriend’s wife as president? ANd Bubba as first lady? Give me a break!

I think the number of HARD CORE repubs like Hank who are just ITCHING for Obama are telling.

How many “moderate” republican posters here support Obama? I havent seen too many.

I think it’s funny that Hank is saying Hillary could cost us the Presidency. Uh, Hank, according to you, wouldnt that be a good thing?

And monkey, one more thing. I dont HAVE to support McCain (Rommey is toast)

I can stay home. And frankly, I’m not sure having obama in office is any better for me and mine than McCain. They BOTH oppose gay marriage.

What difference does it make what party we vote for when NEITHER supports us? Obama has made it VERY clear he doesnt care if he has my vote or not.

Why do you?

One test remains.

Obama MUST clarify his remarks.

There was absolutely nothing good about Ronald Reagan. It was Ronald Reagan taught me that I was not a Republican is his only redeeming feature.

And what is this talk of working to the future and forgetting the past? Is Obama in favor of letting all the Republican damage stand?

There is much repair to do and much redress of grievances before the score will be even enough to just move on.

But no doubt the numbers of starry eyed people crying “change” has made you forget that.
And you have to decide which groups of loyal democratic voters you will throw under the bus as sacrifice to work with the right. But if your math says the plus and minus works your way (you think) I’m sure that won’t much slow you down.

Me? I don’t bail on my friends to make nice with my enemies. But as ksag says, that likely makes me a minority.

I’d like to offer you a friendly caution though. I’ve travelled from one end of the political spectrum to the other. And I get a bad vibe off this guy. I can’t put my finger on it better than to say he comes across as….deceptive. Or maybe just REALLY naive.

We have an opportunity of a lifetime here. The right can be out in there place and made to stay there for a very long time. And they know it.

Just don’t blow it on your better nature. Trust me, they aint moved by it. On the contrary. It gives them hope.

And if Hillary wins, are you going to support her?

Why should he? You just told MH she was no better than McCain. Her position on gay marriage is indistinguishable from Obama’s.

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/BarackObama.htm

Obama also favors open gay status of military service personel, non-discrimination, G & L adoption, and civil unions.

So… why wont he apologize for letting mccloset preach?

Because he’s playing poltics. He will say, over and over, that he support gay rights, but he doesn’t want to piss off the black evangelical community too much.

And it also possible he’s too stubborn to admit a mistake.

If Hillary Clinton is elected president, what do we call Bill?
Would it be the First Sir, First Man or traditionally the First LADY of the White House?

“Because he’s playing poltics. He will say, over and over, that he support gay rights, but he doesn’t want to piss off the black evangelical community too much.”

My point exactly. He is taking for granted, like monkey, that the gay folks will dutifully go to the polls and support him if he is the party nominee. Taking us for granted.

And also.. throwing US under the bus to pander to the black evangelicals.

I rest my case.

According to this website–http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/HillaryClinton.htm–

Hillary and Obama get virtually the same overall score on gay rights issues (89 and 87 respectively) and hold the same positions.

Hillary also wants to repeal “don’t ask, don’t tell” in the military — which is odd to me, since Bill got it instituted.

She also opposes gay marriage, while she supports unions — same as Obama.

OK Rage, post the ENTIRE story. Despite that beginning, Aravosis comes down NOT on obama’s side.

You think he is wrong too?

I’m trying to be patient here…

“Hillary also wants to repeal “don’t ask, don’t tell” in the military — which is odd to me, since Bill got it instituted.

She also opposes gay marriage, while she supports unions — same as Obama.”

Well, as to DADT, maybe she isnt a billbot? Maybe she doesnt agree with Bill on EVERY issue? Wby is that so hard for you to understand.

And as for her opposing gay marriage and supporting civil unions.. that is my point.

In a close election, I’m gonna go with the candidate who does NOT invite bigots to headline an event.

Some links…………

“Mr. Obama said through a spokesman that he “strongly disagrees” with Mr. McClurkin’s views.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/obama-criticized-over-singer/

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/obamas-gospel-concert-tour/

So you’re saying that Hillary couldn’t get Bill to give full equality to gay service people even though he was Commander-in-Chief and she were First Lady, but that this time it’ll be her priority.

It’s possible, I guess.

I’m out for awhile.

Ciao.

I never really liked Bill Clinton much.

He IS the best politician of his age.

But he’s not much of a person or visionary.

I THINK (and that’s just me) that Senator Clinton is different.

Hey I spoke up for Obama BEFORE he was a phenom.

I weighed him equally with all the other candidates.

Until he started getting politically aware and calculating.

I know, I know, Senator Clinton does that too.

But she did not START her career with it. Obama is.

So Clark, it would be ok for you if someone invited the KKK to headline and event, preach for thirty minutes at the end, and then when the shit hits the fam, just say they disagree with their views?

Why am I not surprised Captain that you dont believe Hillary’s own words. She was against DADT WHILE she was first lady, not afterward.

You think she has absolute control over her husband? You think they never disagree on issues?

Nice try. Doesnt wash.

And yeah Rage, I think it is chicken shit that she wont support gay marriage. But arent you all the ones saying no one is perfect?

At least she has NOT thrown my community under the bus to pander to anyone.

Sigh. . .here’s the whole article. As you can see, John A. is considerably more comfortable with Obama than I am.

***********************************************
Monday, January 21, 2008

Obama and the gays, again
by John Aravosis (DC) · 1/21/2008 06:02:00 PM ET · Link
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Obama’s relations with the gay community were off to a great start yesterday morning. Obama had just addressed the Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, MLK’s own church (text of the speech and video here), and Obama went out of his way in the speech to call the black community to task for having “scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them.”

Not bad, considering candidates don’t usually admonish their own in order to get votes.

Then, word started getting around (i.e., I started getting lots of emails) that Obama was embracing yet another homophobic friend-of-Bush, a la the controversy a few months ago in which Donnie McClurkin, a gospel singer (and Bush supporter) who advocates that gays can (and should) be “cured” emceed an Obama fundraiser. This time around, it’s Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, a black minister who says he’s been asked by the Obama campaign to travel around the country on their behalf. The controversy? The minister’s church runs a ministry that tries to cure gays.

Or at least they did. The ministry’s Web site no longer contains the page promoting their anti-gay/ex-gay ministry, but I still have a copy that you can see below:

(click image for a larger copy)

The really important part is the lead that reads:
We are pleased to announce the creation of “ The Way, The Truth and The Life”, a program created to provide Christ Centered instruction for those seeking freedom from homosexuality, lesbianism, prostitution, sex addiction and other habitual sins.
Oops.

Why I’m actually not that upset about all of this (and much more), after the jump…

Caldwell, for his part, issued the following statement today:
“Metanoia Ministries is not an active ministry of my church. It was run by an outside group and I was not aware that it was still linked to my website. Neither Senator Obama nor his staff knew of this outside ministry, nor have they expressed any agreement with my church’s beliefs on gay rights. I support Senator Obama because of his ability to bring Americans together, not because of our agreement or disagreement on any one issue.”
Well, not so fast. The ex-gay group wasn’t “linked” from Caldwell’s Web site, they were a part of Caldwell’s Web site. An entire page was devoted to their “ex-gay” services, and the director of the ex-gay program, Barbara Hicks, has an email address at Caldwell’s church. There’s nothing outside about this at all (though it is good that Caldwell is feeling the need to distance himself from the “cure the gays” crowd).

I’ve talked to the Obama campaign about this, and they assure me of a few things:

1. Caldwell has not, and will not, be asked to do anything for the campaign (and this means, we hope, that Obama won’t be doing appearances with the man any time soon).
2. Caldwell was simply wrong when he told the papers this weekend that the campaign asked him to travel around the country on their behalf. In other words, Caldwell was freelancing when he called the paper for an interview.

The reason the McClurkin controversy really got my goat wasn’t that Obama had scheduled a homophobic superstar to emcee a campaign event. (I doubt Obama knew about McClurkin’s dark side when the event was scheduled.) What bothered me was that even after Obama learned that McClurkin was a real jerk he still kept him on the schedule (and surprise, surprise, McClurkin then spent half an hour at the event railing against gays). From what we know, Caldwell isn’t McClurkin – Caldwell may embrace the “ex-gays,” but he’s not an ex-gay leader like McClurkin (though I’m not going to give the guy any PFLAG awards). But more importantly, Caldwell doesn’t appear to have any role at all in the Obama campaign, nor will he (though he did appear previously at a few Obama events). If that’s true, and coming on the heels of Obama’s rather gutsy pro-gay comments at MLK’s church yesterday morning, I’m a lot less troubled by this controversy than I was the previous.

Bottom line: Obama gets some some major chits for what he did yesterday morning, and with that in mind, I think on this one we can give him a pass.

UPDATE: A reader emailed me this link, noting that Caldwell was invited by Obama’s campaign to appear at the McClurkin fundraiser. I knew that already, and the campaign didn’t lie to me about it – in fact they acknowledged that he was there. But, the issue isn’t what the campaign did before they knew he was a problem, the issue is what they do now. If they say he’s not going to be asked to do anything for the campaign, until proven otherwise, that’s a darn good answer.
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http://www.americablog.com/2008/01/obama-and-gays-again.html

Yes Rage, he ends up giving him a pass. But I dont hear him say he supports Obama.

And if you are not that comfortable with Obama, why do you defend him so?

Hey P-Mom!

I’ve met him, I’ve talked with him. When I was in the Navy in Charleston he come down on the boat and ate with us on Christmas Eve once. Love him? No, but I think he was one of the best men to come out of the ‘old’ south.

Just, what do you have against him? He was highly respected on both side of the Senate when he was alive.

Oh, and he came down unannounced, we didn’t have to spend the week before Christmas with our panties all in a wad field daying the damn boat!

KFG — I’m not defending Obama. I’m defending the factual record. If I get it wrong, I welcome correction.

I had no idea whether John A. had endorsed Obama. Never even implied he did. You’re reading way too much in-between the lines, obviously.

Sorry, but I’m not joining anyone’s crusade. YES I CAN — make up my own damn mind.

“So Clark, it would be ok for you if someone invited the KKK to headline”

Bullshit, absolute complete bullshit and you are clearly distorting my position and my continued support of gay rights and gay marriage.

Do you HONESTLY THINK I WOULD SUPPORT AN ANTI-GAY CANDIDATE?

That is just pure crap.

It was a god damned concert – McClurkin was not an emcee and a gay minister spoke also. McClurkin spent the last thirty minutes CLAIMING that he had been converted through God.

He is an idiot and Obama has explained his position.

“Still, canceling Mr. McClurkin’s appearance might have created more problems. Mr. McClurkin’s support for Mr. Obama could signal to some black evangelical voters that race and religion are more important than Mr. Obama’s support for gay rights.”

Seventy percent of Americans oppose gay marriage – I am not a part of that percentage, but I am realistic enough to know that politics is partially a matter of compromise.

There is no perfect candidate.

If the gay and lesbian want to paint Barack Obama as being a homophobe because of some singer that performed at an event – so be it – they are dead wrong, but they seem to be intent on falsely characterizing a man regardless of his record and positions.

Hillary Clinton has nothing more to offer the gay community than does Barack Obama. It was her husband that supported “Don’t Ask” and the DOMA. If she was such a “good friend” to the gay community, she would have opposed both measures AT THAT TIME.

She didn’t.

Hillary is as much a politician as Bill. She knows that the winds have changed ever so slightly and she is playing the cards to get the gay vote.

I am told that I am buying the “Republican rhetoric” regarding my concern over Bob Johnson’s comments and the other “black” issues.

Well, two can play at that game.

Oh and by the way?

I don’t have a name. But I do have a second hand crossover story of my own.

My mom’s neighbors. They told me they ran into one woman who said she has been a Republican all her life. She too was registering. She’s sick to death with the GOP.

She caucused for Senator Clinton.

There is enough hurt and dis satisfied folks to go around.

Let’s make sure we give them our best.

Other than exercising, I don’t do anything else but work with the Senate,” he once said.

And apparently screwing black women and then disowning his children.

Howard Worth Smith, Democratic U.S. Congressman VA

“The Southern people have never accepted the colored race as a race of people who had equal intelligence . . . as the white people of the South.”

“If we hadn’t lost the Civil War, we wouldn’t have had to deal with this crap.”–Pres. Bill Clinton, speaking to a group of Southern Democrats on the subject of affirmative action.

“If we hadn’t lost the Civil War, we wouldn’t have had to deal with this crap”

Provide a CREDIBLE link for that statement attributed to Bill Clinton – it doesn’t pass the Google test for anything other than eatthestate.

I believe that it is just more right wing made up crap.

“Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.” – Robert Byrd

————–

Personally WS, I believe in redemption; for Strom Thurmond as well as for Robert Byrd. People can change.

Wow for tolerant liberals you are a bunch of judgemental close minded people. You put me to shame.

JR I saw a letter to the editor today that sounded just like you. It was about free healthcare. Was that you?

I heard Hillary say the following. I guess there is no free lunch. Watch for the withholdings for your ‘free’ healthcare.

“Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., this morning left open the possibility that, if elected, her government would garnish the wages of people who didn’t comply with her health care plan. “We will have an enforcement mechanism, whether it’s that or it’s some other mechanism through the tax system or automatic enrollments,” Clinton said in an appearance on “This Week with George Stephanopoulos”.”

Dear P-Mom,

Essie Mae Washington is Strom Thurman’s daughter. She’s never said a bad word about her father, Strom Thurman.

I watched this interview of her on 60 Minutes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/60II/main589107.shtml

I thought that Dan Rather’s tone and attitude were very rude. He appeared to be trying to get Essie Mae to disparage her father and she never did. She had the greatest respect and admiration for Strom and it showed in the interview. She was a very classy lady.

My impression was that she wasn’t aware of her father until she was 16 and he wasn’t aware of her. She loved the aunt and uncle that raised her and kept her real father’s identity secret out of respect for them. Although he never advertised their relationship Strom never really seemed to try and keep it secret at all, he surely never ‘disowned’ her. He helped her emotionally and financially.

Strom Thurman was an exceptional man. I admired him and I respected him. Truly a great American.

Actually I wasn’t talking about anyone else but the close minded people posting on this blog. You libs preach ‘tolerance’ and the the most intolerant people I know. As I have said before – this blog seems to attract them.

Plan to be at Century II.

You libs are eating each other alive.
I love it!
It’s almost as good as going to TJ and watching a donkey……..

Anyway, it’s enjoyable to read this discussion.

You have a one track mind here: Stuck on Gay.

It’s really such a small item amongst the big items facing this nation. It entails less than 5% of the population and the majority of US States have enacted legislation – at the bequest of the majority of their citizens to deny marriage to same sex partners.

Really guys, you need to move on and move up.

This is not the “hot” item facing a nation in debt up to our ass, and with a liberal society demanding more FREE MONEY, not to mention our soured relations abroad – and a legitimate group of fanactical islamics demanding the death of all Americans.

You too, have lost sight of what is important.

Hank ck your email.

I’ll take Hank’s word on the identity of “ksgrm”

For now I believe “she” is just another construct of James McCluer.

I’ll be happy to admit if I am wrong.

Oh and no, I don’t write letters to the editor anymore. Too many con nuts out there just waiting to hit back.

That Hank Price respects Strom Thurmond only reaffirms my assessment his character.

James R Maxwell writes just like you do. The JR initials confused me. Believe me I am not a figment of anyones imagination. I just don’t feel comfortable with some on this blog knowing my identity.

And what position are you talking about P-Mom? Strom never had the same position that Byrd had, he was never a Kleagle or Exalted Cyclops in the KKK!

When Thurman was in the Army in Europe during WWII, Byrd was recruiting for the Klan in WV.

I took your word for it. Was just explaining why I asked.

“You libs are eating each other alive.”

Nah, we are just figuring out how best we are gonna run the country for the rest of your life.

Tend your own side and it’s division into tribal factions in the political wilderness.

And look who is haunting this thread.

I said the right was scared and that we should finish them off as opposed to working with them.

Hank could be on the Romney thread.

But he is here rattling his chains.

Why?

Because he and his are about to become ghosts of the past. If only we will let them.

Pmom when have you ever admitted that Bill Clinton was a scoundrel for the way he humiliated Hillary? And the party of Robert Byrd should never about a Strom Thurmond. That is what bothers me about libs. I have made a real effort to soften my approach to libs on this blog. Unfortunately it isn’t returned.

I am glad that you were involved in Hillary campaign in Kansas. I would love to see many more get involved on both sides. But the world doesn’t exist with one group of people who are always right and one group who is always wrong.

IMOHO

I DID say Clinton was a scoundrel, but what he got from the right was far overblown by anything I could have thought of him for his actions. Yes he was a dog for what he did. I have always said that. But it still had nothing to do with the running of the nation out of the witchhunt the Republicans did to him for so many years, wasting so much money, and making this huge divide in the country. So he…and SHE…ended up with my sympathies instead.

I won’t apologize for finding it disgusting the hypocricy that Hank is showing for admiring such a racist. Byrd could have changed to the Republican party in order to keep his racism in line. But he DIDN”T. He renounced his position. He began voting FOR civil rights.

Bill apologized for his infidelity to his wife. He supports her and obviously had a great deal of respect for her. I do believe you can love someone and cheat on them at the same time. I believe there is a difference between love and sex.

I’m just so darn tired of the Bush apologists, Bush has not apologized, rather, he takes an even more hardline stance against the dems. As if we are the enemy. In my book that makes him, and his supporters, the enemy. Ruining this country as fast as they can. I take great personal issue with that.

The gay community MUST get behind Hillary Clinton!”
ksfarmgrrl
Posted February 6, 2008 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

That’s hillarious!

I’m going nighty-bye now, I’ve got some GW news for cosmos tomorrow, ought to be fun.

And here is Hank AGAIN shilling one of our nominees and not his.

My take is he is hedging his bets on how best to lose.

Or, is Obama a win for him and his?

I wouldn’t listen to him.

Capn, Moneyhawk, and ksag? Will you?

“J R” –

I wouldn’t read more into the so-called “shilling for Obama” that’s coming from a wing-nut such as “Hank Price.”

I suspect he’s like a coward in a bar fight, sitting on the edges hoping we’ll fight some more. What he doesn’t understand is we Democrats are used to a little infighting during primary season but we unify once a candidate is chosen. The Republic Party is used to lock-step ordination of a favorite and is imploding at the disassembly of the Reagan coalition. Evangelicals won’t vote for Romney, permanent tax-cutters won’t vote for McCain, war mongers won’t vote for Huckabee. The Republic Party is setting itself up to run a guy who promises American jobs won’t come back, illegal immigrants won’t go home, and we’ll be at war in Iraq for a hundred years. Like Pat Buchanan said, “McCain will make Cheney look like Gandhi.”

“ksfarmgrrl” asked me earlier if I would support Hillary if she got the nomination. Hell, yes, I will! I think I’ve said that dozens of times in this forum. I think she’d be a fine President. I think, however, she’s not the strongest candidate in the general election.

I think “Hank Price” hit it (hell, even a broken clock is right twice a day) when he says the Republic Party’s only hope at being competitive in the general election is if Hillary is the Democratic candidate.

Our chances are very good for a Democratic victory in November. Our chances for a landslide Democratic victory are, in my opinion, improved with Barack at the top of the ticket.

I support her “Royal Thighness.”

Clark, with all due respect as usual…

McClurkin HEADLINED and did indeed MC the Obama fundraiser. He also performed with MaryMary and Hezakiah Walker. I dont know how many times I have to say that.

Interesting observations about the campaign by the NYT. I didnt see any bias either way, so it should be read by both sides here.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23045501

I find it interesting that I read more than one post talking about the obama campaign becoming a Cult of Personality. Also a post about how obama supporters give “personal conversion” stories instead of issues. You can see both on these threads. I also see the folks supporting obama here are men and republicans.

And… the repukes havent even revved up on Rezko yet. More information coming out every day. We already know all there is to know about the Clintons.

And I have said, repeatedly, that I would support Obama as VP. I hardly think that indicates hate. I just think the mccloset mistake is one of many rookie mistakes that he and his campaign have made. Let him get some OJT and I MIGHT support him in 8 years.

Funny thing with cult of personality candidates. Their “fans” will turn on them quickly when the feet of clay become too large to ignore.

We’ll see come convention time. Maybe the oldtimers are supporting Hillary because she has said she will support the party nominee. I dont hear that from the obama camp.

And… wtf? You think the republicans will NOT be energized no matter WHO the democratic nominee is?

THAT is the most “whistling past the graveyard” statement I can imagine. Just because some of you are swooning over Obama doesnt mean the repukes will be too. I think they are lulling you to sleep.

And what a rude awakening you will have…

Yeah, outlander, I agree.

Obama has a personality cult.

It’s part of the unfair advantage of actually having . . . you know . . . a personality.

James… I really gotta wonder…. You just cant get off of the SEX agenda, can you?? Is it something you got wrong?? Or do you just think it’s cute?? Well, if you think its cute, it ISNT!! It is sorta sick!!

Outlander — You ever watch a televised religious event from some of those MEGA CHURCHES??? When the camera pans over the crowd, there are ALWAYS some women, arms stretched upward… eyes sort of rolling, or closed… looking nearly orgasmic…. You think they might be having the HOTS for Jeeeezus???

If not, then why would you try to make something of it for the Obama crowd… and I notice you purposely pointed out the RACE of the young lady… as if there would be something wrong if a white woman WAS enthralled with a Black Man??? Eh???