Kansas is getting another p.r. hit with the story circulating the national news and blogs this week about a private high school northwest of Topeka that wouldn’t allow a female referee to officiate a boys’ game because the school doesn’t allow women to be in authority over men. The Kansas State High School Activities Association is investigating the report and may prohibit St. Mary’s Academy from playing other teams in the association (though the small school typically only plays a couple of association schools each season).
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65 Comments
It’s PRIVATE, deal with it.
I admire her for not flying off the handle, for taking a professional and mature stance about the disrespect she suffered, and I also admire the support she received from the man who was supposed to referee with her that night, as well as the man who had just finished refereeing, who was asked to stay over and do another game, and who flatly refused. This is precisely the kind of firm public rejection of blatant sexism that this country should admire and promote. And it shouldn’t just be limited to sexism - racism also needs these kinds of heroes.
For example, it was reported in the Eagle recently that a businessman attending an informational conference with Sen. Peggy Palmer about her fear-mongering, anti-immigrant legislation remarked at one point, “They are not terrorists” or something to that effect. He should also be admired and celebrated for speaking up.
Kelly…one small mention. Sen Palmer’s bill is not anti-immigration. It is anti ILLEGAL immigration. Significant difference.
If I am right, and I may not be, the St. Mary’s Academy is part of a throwback Catholic outfit that refuses to acknowledge the changes enacted by Vatican II. They’re everywhere (if not numerous) and not just limited to Kansas.
“It’s PRIVATE, deal with it.”
It may be private, but their conduct was still assh*lish, and as private citizen I reserve the right to express that opinion about them. Also, they may have to schedule a couple of different games on their schedule because the High School Association can sanction them (but since the header points out most of their schedule is not made up of members of the Association, that probably won’t impact them much).
Correct, St. Mary’s Academy is one of those throwbacks. They’re more Catholic than the Pope, quite literally so.
That’s what I thought. I knew that the traditionalist church was there, and I thought it likely that St. Mary’s Academy, given what they did, was attached to it. Your typical catholic school, even those attached to more conservative parishes, would not engage in this behavior.
ksagnostic,
As a “private citizen” you may “reserve the right to express that opinion about them”, and they have the right to TOTALLY IGNORE YOU. Which I whole heartily endorse.
It is a private matter as was indicated, not public, and none of your concern, except maybe to you….deal with it within yourself.
They have a right to express and practice their beliefs as they see fit, not how you dictate.
You motivation undoubtedly stems from a hate of their religion and that they even practice it at all.
You are totally irrelevant in this matter.
Are all the teachers at the school men, and if not, do female teachers have no authority over the male students?
I was so proud of how all the men refs handled this whole event. And I’m sorry but the lady ref SHOULD be far more upset than she has appeared. Sure they’re a private school and they have the right to do whatever it is they want within reason. But the association is right to kick em out of their group as well.
I think it is shameful that people still hold on to these ideas. And remember, the people who attend that church still work in the community. Tell me there isn’t some discrimination going on where THEY work.
Remember, there are a lot of other religions out there who also believe the way this group does. They would push women right out if they could get away with it.
It’s not clear to me how this a PR disaster for Kansas. Methinks brownlee has a case of self-loathing. It may be a PR disaster for the skool, or it could be a point of pride for them.
As long as my tax money doesn’t go to them, I don’t care what they do.
If private businesses aren’t allowed to discriminate against women, how is a private school allowed to do so? Seriously, I’m not seeing the difference.
It’s a religious school. I still believe in the separation of church and state, and freedom of religion. Don’t you?
As a non-Catholic who married into a Catholic family, the views of this school is not expressed in the church we attend. I believe that God made man and woman, in his own image. Just because God took a rib from Adam to make Eve we should see the one truth in all of this: YOU CAN’T HAVE MEN WITHOUT WOMEN!!!!! For this reason, women should be praised for the ability that God gave them. The school can do what they wish, they just have to deal the consequence of their belief that men are better than women. They are equal parties in this world. God doesn’t separate men and women. He loves ALL of us EQUALLY.
Boxlock,
If you only like your opinions and not those of others, why are you here?
If it’s okay with you to put men above women, I guess you’re all for the persecution of Islamic women. Kill the infidels?
If you buy into the Eve came from Adam’s rib theory, you might want to check out the Lilith Myth. Quite interesting.
http://www.gnosis.org/lilith.htm
RD, I was going to comment the same thing.
As long as she knew the rules of the boys basketball game and was experienced, she should have been allowed.
But as others have stated, their school, their court and their rules. Let the chips fall…yada yada
TDT, I think Political_mama answered your question (you did ask a question, didn’t you?). A private school that is a private school cannot lawfully discriminate against women any more than private business can. However, the law provides exceptions to religiously based entities that allows certain acts if taken in accordance with the belief that would otherwise be unlawful. Thus, if, in accordance with the belief held, the school in question does not want to employ women in any capacity, this, in and of itself, does not violate various statutes (state or federal) even though this discrimination would, in the absence of the belief, be proscribed.
Back to the issue. St. Mary’s may certainly object to a female official. That is its right as a religious school. If KSHSAA finds this objectionable, it has the right to take the action it is contemplating. St. Mary’s will then need to fill out its schedule with teams from non-KSHSAA schools that do not object to its policies, and also will need to obtain officials for its games from whatever source it may have. Officials contacted would also have the right to decline to work the games. If this has an adverse effect upon St. Mary’s athletic programs, so be it.
Thanks Vaughn, I kind of thought that may be the loophole after reading the full article, but still wasn’t sure. It seemed in the article that the emphasis is on whether this policy is in writing.
Love your insight, VT. Thank you for providing that! Also, your last line pretty much says it all, “so be it”. Their loss…not ours.
As I read the article, I concluded they would be punished whether it was in writing or not, but the punishment would differ depending.
I realize that that I posted at 9:20 a.m. is general and broad in its scope. I’d speculate that St. Mary’s does not have a blanket policy against employment of women, only that women are not to be employed in a position where the women would be in authority over men. Again, in the absence of its status as a religious entity, this policy would be violative of various state and federal statutes.
But as others have stated, their school, their court and their rules. Let the chips fall…yada yada
Then it should have been known by those who schedule the refs. If not, why not? Did St. Mary’s fail to let it be known? Did they think a woman would never referee a game?
Well here’s something. If this is a high school, then these aren’t MEN, these are BOYS.
Look at how the Catholic faith worships Mary.
The bible states that a man is to provide for a woman and a woman obey her husband. Don’t ask me for chapter and verse.
So you have a conundrum right there. Worship Mary but every other woman is second class. If you sent your kid to a religious school and did not research the schools policies, shame on the parents.
If other schools don’t want to participate in activities with St. Mary’s, bully for them and that is their freedom and liberty.
C’mon folks, the school is named after St. Mary, but women can’t have authority over the male students? Do nuns teach classes? So are the male students allowed to do whatever they want?
Pop quiz: After Jesus died and Paul began the Christian faith in earnest, did St Peter and John the Baptist support or abandon Paul? Which of the other Apostles supported or abandon Paul? What was Paul’s profession prior to following Jesus?
Fleettwood, I don’t know that it is exactly a PR disaster for Kansas, but it is certainly another unwanted excuse for others to point and say, “Those Kansans are sure backwards” or words to that effect. It’s the same kind of thing as the ‘Intelligent Design’ fiasco in the schools prompted.
I’m proud to be a Kansan - I was born here and I live here now by choice although I’ve lived lots of other places including over seas. We have a hard enough PR problem as it is - everyone always thinks we’re ‘hick from the sticks’. Which only illustrates how ignorant they are but it still reflects bady on us because the views are so common. Every little thing like this doesn’t help, that’s all we’re saying.
HopeSprings,
It was one school, a private religious school and one basketball game with a decision made by someone in that school.
I don’t think Kansas is going to “hell in a hand basket, because someone made that decision.”
It was a single incident, on a single night at a single location. Any assignment to other groups outside of that place is ludicrous.
We have a hard enough PR problem as it is - everyone always thinks we’re ‘hick from the sticks’. Which only illustrates how ignorant they are but it still reflects bady on us because the views are so common. Every little thing like this doesn’t help, that’s all we’re saying.
-Hopesprings
I think you guys give Kansas more credit then it deserves. I grew up in the south and Kansas had no reputation whatsoever that I was familiar with. Outside of Kansas, nobody cares about Kansas, period. Numerous states besides Kansas have fought science that is critical of evolution. That’s certiantly not a uniquely Kansan characteristic, neither is the presence of schools like this one.
The Westboro church, however, that place is one of a kind and has attracted nationwide attention.
Dying in Kansas is redundant.
(I miss that t-shirt)
I want women to be able to do whatever they can and are able to do. But in walks religion and flucks everything up.
Wrong religion, Pleef. Wiccans are very female oriented.
This is a nonstory. WHo cares? There are private organizations and religious based organizations that have all kinds of rules and archaic though processes. Do we have time to list them all? No. Small school, without the official backing of any governmental official or newsmaker (at least to my knowledge). Non story.
Great topic to get people with a couple hours to burn arguing inanities, LJ.
Did it occur to the school officials that these boys also have mothers……………..
Are they suggesting that their mothers should not have authority over them?
Good call WS.
Did y’all see that last Wife Swap? WS, that pretty much is how they view it. The only son had no chores and the daughters did all the house work.
This story added to the wonderful Baptist ministry near Topeka that pickets our American Vet Heros, makes me think Kansas must lobby for this type of people to live there. All of them appear to be bigots and racist. What ever happened to the wonderful people who are accepting of others and never try to dictate thier beliefs on others? I lived in the ElDorado area at one time and believe me I saw some small minded people in the city government there. We decided to move from the state because of just the kinds of things these type of peoplr preach. Not equality but domination and damnation. So see these stories do add up to a very poor view of Kansas to outsiders. Are you all like this are just to afraid to take a stand against these people? Your state has some very pretty areas and most of the people seem friendly when we stop passing thru so maybe you should start telling the story of the good normal folks who live in Kansas.
I wonder what these dipshits do if they get pulled over by a female cop, or have a female DA? judge.
“Are you all like this are just to afraid to take a stand against these people?”
As Kansans, we do - all the time - Republicans and Democrats, young and old.
It is only the true IDIOT portions of Kansas that gets national attention, not the overwhelming majority of Kansans that are good and decent people.
By the way, have you heard of the Patriot Guard?
That began right here in Kansas, by Kansans to combat the very folks that you refer to - Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church.
We also have a great bumper sticker……
Phuck Phred Phelps.
“If private businesses aren’t allowed to discriminate against women, how is a private school allowed to do so? Seriously, I’m not seeing the difference.”
There are provisions in the law allowing discrimination if there is a religious purpose. I’ll lat our legal eagles give a better explanation.
I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to learn more about the St. Mary’s Academy policy toward female referees because, some people out there in our nation don’t have maps and I believe that our education like such as, South Africa and the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to understand that we live in the United States of America and are able to practice our religious freedoms in the future and for our children.
LCU,
LMFAO. wonder how many here get it?
Can we at least agree that the priest or coach or whomever refused to accept a female referee to “hold authority” over the boys at St. Mary’s Academy is a few sandwiches shy of a picnic? I mean, this guy is fringe, even for Kansas.
You’ve gotta wonder what kinds of families would send their kids there? Who are St. Mary’s Academy’s illustrious alumni? What have they turned into after being “educated” by this priest or coach or whomever?
“More Catholic than the Pope?” Hell, they’re probably even more Catholic than Sam Browback! When Bob Dole retired from the Senate, a lot of his campaign donations were converted to fund the Bob Dole Institute of Political Science at KU. Maybe Sam can start something when he retires next year: The Brownback Institute of Cultish Self-Flaggelation at St. Mary’s Academy!
St. Mary’s is a crazy place. Ten years ago, or so, one of their residents declared himself to be The One *TRUE!* Pope. His parents ran a furniture store in St. Mary’s, and gave him a Barco-Lounger on a platform in their store for a throne! He welcomed visitors and gave “audiences” to pilgrims there for a while.
I gotta wonder what God thinks of all this. After all, as fringe as they are, the St. Mary’s catholics or the reorganized Church of the Latter Day Saints, or reenacting canibalism with bread and wine seem to be absurd little rituals many people embrace “for the glory of God.” Think that means squat to God? He’s got bigger fish to fry, doesn’t He? War. Pestilance. Disease. Suffering. Gravity.
“Magic Underwear?,” says God? “Fine, fine. I’ve got galaxies colliding over her on the smart side of the Universe.”
Actually, MH, the “pope” lives in Belvue… other side of the railroad trestle on 24.
It has a halfways decent Mexican restaurant, and used to be the home of one of the best party halls in the state… but I’m dating myself
wonder how many here get it?
I don’t get it. I don’t even watch beauty pageants as they’re sexist.
LCU, thats probably the type of education they get at St Mary’s and its sad when Miss South Carolina is smarter than these dumasses.
“They have a right to express and practice their beliefs as they see fit, not how you dictate.
“You motivation undoubtedly stems from a hate of their religion and that they even practice it at all.
“You are totally irrelevant in this matter.”
Translation: Notice meeeeee! Take the baaaaait!
Re: Boxlock
DNFTT
Kudos for the referees, the school can have their backwards policies but then the rest of the world can have their forward policies.
Sad thing about it is that the world is constantly changing and if you are not subjected to that change then you will be left behind, constantly unable to cope with the changes.
what will they do when nobody will play ball with them?
Don’t worry, Tom, they’ll still have Word of Life, Sunrise, Wichita Trinity, Clair Paravel, Flint Hills Christian (Manhattan and Emporia), the school in Lawrence that escapes me now, et. al.
Dunno, MrC, Wichita Trinity is going into KSHSAA officially next school year. Would leave another hole in the schedule.
Didn’t know that, VT.
I presumed that, Mr.C. There was a story in the sports section of the Eagle a while back. IIRC, Wichita Trinity will be classified a 4A for KSHSAA purposes.
I found this after doing a search regarding the incident: http://www.sspx.org/whatsnew.htm . It’s a “News Release” giving an excuse for the incident. I find their excuse to be ridiculous and I’m even a Catholic.
“mrcontroversy” offers –
“…a halfways decent Mexican restaurant, and used to be the home of one of the best party halls in the state… but I’m dating myself.”
Yeah, well. “Dating yourself” is always an option.
It means the night will end up with sex; sex sith someone you love. But you’ll want to bring a tissue to bed.
Whether it’s geography or theology or just dumb luck, there are a lot of people around St. Mary’s Kansas who are full-blown out-of-their-minds crazy.
You’re right x, it’s still a pathetic excuse. That was blatant sexism, there is no TRAINING involved in being a referee. These kids will go out unto the ‘battlefield’ believing this discrimination is ok.
Look they can think whatever they want to, but that churchschool had better prep them on how to NOT discriminate in the real world.
Must suck to be a woman in one of these cults. they’re ALL cults. I also wish CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA would figure it out that they hurt women. Such self loathing.
“SSPX Catholic” - isn’t that what Ian Santiago was?
They were ticked because she wasn’t a “Mackerel snapper” and that is not allowed in their “Cult”
Juan - crawl back under rock - now.
I am sorry for the students at this bastion of the last or whatever prior century.
They are being raised to believe in a world that does not exist anymore. They will find they are misfits and will live unhappy lives and share that unhappiness with anyone they encounter.
some men still think women should be in the kitchen barefoot, pregnant, and uneducated.
Well, my wife is now been visiting the kitchen a lot, barefoot and (heavily) pregnant. Hopefully, in two weeks the baby will come!
Aiming for that special day when in the olden days has been the only day for women to propose marriage.
Roo-ster - your first? CONGRATULATIONS! (to her, not you)
This will sum it all up for those who don’t understand; PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF WHAT THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND. This goes all the way back in the history books, people. Many wars were fought over religious beliefs. It didn’t change anything. Free country, free speech, free religion. Let it be.
Political_mama, you misunderstand the excuse. They are not saying women cannot be referees, just that men are the only ones capable in teaching young boys to be men. THAT is sexism, for I know of some men who were raised solely by women, and they are GREAT men.
Ben — Nay, ’tis our second, but thank you for the congrats. The first is already punching gibberish on the keyboard, well on the way to be a blogger, I presume!
(Sadly, that includes knowing how to access my e-mail acct. So, no more automatic logging in…)
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