Community thread

wichitaopen

22 Comments

  1. Apophis
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    How long will it be until someone (JWink?) gets on this thread and rails against the arena?

  2. kelly
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    We saw at least two different governmental decisions this week that fly in the face of creating more recreational opportunities in Kansas. One was the decision by the Sedg Cty Comm to refuse to approve the Ark River access plan, and the other was the decison by Sen. McGinn’s committee to kill the proposal to allow free entrance at all Kansas State Parks to all Kansas residents. Both decisions, it seems to me, fail to recognize the eco-devo potential for rural economies to develop the tourist industry.

  3. MonkeyHawk
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    “kelly” –

    See, and this is what I don’t get about the Republic Party people in the legislature.

    There’s only one reason I can come up with for the State Park entrance-fee elimination. That certainly isn’t *that* big a revenue source is it? The Republic Party voted against it only because Governor Sebelius proposed it.

  4. JWink
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    Apophis: I don’t have time this morning to “rail” against the downtown arena. Suffice it to say, it will join Alaska’s “Bridge to nowhere” as one of the worst expenditures of public funds ever in America. And in this case by a local government unit. Knowing what I know about you, you should be out carrying a sign opposing the arena also. Its an affront to all middle class citizens of Wichita and Sedgwick County who wanted to make our area a better place to live for our citizens and future generations.

  5. JWink
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Apophis: I don’t have time this morning to “rail” against the downtown arena. Suffice it to say, it will join Alaska’s “Bridge to No Where” as one of the worst expenditures of public funds ever made in America. And in this case by a local government unit. Knowing what I know about you, you should be out carrying a sign opposing the arena also. Its an affront to all middle class citizens of Wichita and Sedgwick County who wanted to make our area a better place to live for our citizens and future generations.

  6. Ben
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    I was very disappointed in the actions of the Sedgwick County Commission in regards to river access. The concerns about crime are unfounded; it has been repeatedly shown that allowing more law-abiding citizens (with our cell phones) into areas like the river is actually an impediment to crime. We tend to call 911.

    One property owner expressed concern that citizens might witness her sand/gravel operations. I wonder what she has to hide?

  7. Ken
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    21

  8. Ken
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    21 access points in Sedgwick county did seem a little excessive — maybe 10-15 should have been proposed — I understand they haven’t totally shelved the idea

  9. Hank Price
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    I agree Ben. There seems to be a lot more here than merely concerns about crime.

    The real crime is that many of these property owners adjacent to the river use the river as their private dump. Some of the property is in horrible shape.

    40-50 years ago I floated sections of the Walnut and Arkansas rivers and dumping old construction materials on the banks was common.

    The Arkansas river belongs to all of us. Refusing to allow public access is the only criminal activity I detect.

  10. Hank Price
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Hey Ken,

    If you read the article and consider the stretch of river they are talking about 21 access points is really conservative. I would imagine that there was some compromise involved with that number before it got to the Commissioners.

  11. Regular
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    21 access points will require the necessity of monitored patrol.

    Perhaps there will be a Wichita “Coast Guard.” A nice 16 footer with an inboard engine and fishing well would be nice. Of course, an annoying siren with flashing blue and red lights as well.

  12. TheMick
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Of all the possible property owners with land that abuts the navigable waterway all the way to northern Reno County, as I understand 6 voiced displeasure? Even if we assume Reno County landowners would not come to the Sedgwick County Commission meeting, there were still only 6 landowners in Sedgwick County who voiced “not in my backyard” comments. Six out of how many all together? How many did not object so did not appear? Is the Sedg. Cty. Commission being enslaved by a miniscule but vocal minority?

  13. Ben
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    The total length involved is about 100 miles across three counties. A number of cities are also involved. The concept is NOT some ’super-government’ agency running the show – it is instead a mix of local governments and private. The idea of the ARCAP was to bring together diverse interests into one package.

    For example, there is one possible additional point south of Wichita on private land. The landowner is considering the possibility of renting campsites to boaters. We like this idea – an entrepeneur working with us and benefiting from his investment. Similarly a small community with a restaurant can benefit. That is why many of those involved came from economic development departments rather than only parks departments.

  14. J R
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    Maybe those arrogant, selfish, riverfront property owners need a little dose of eminent domain. The idea that they can have the river just for themselves in ludicrous.

  15. TheMick
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Eminent domain wouldn’t be necessary because the river is not owned by private property owners. I think all the access points are designed to be on public property, or private property where access can be negotiated.

  16. Ben
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    You are correct TheMick. The only discussions we had about eminent domain was to make very clear that there shall NOT be any used.

  17. Taz
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    While I would love to see more access to the river, I can see some of the objections. There have been property owners in Colorado tied up in court for years because of problems with rafters. They have had vandalism, littering, destruction, etc., on their property from people rafting down the various rivers.

    Just takes a few “partyers” to ruin it for everyone.

  18. J R
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    Well it sounds like the carrot is not working with the riverfront property owners.

    Try the stick.

  19. kelly
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Justice William O. Douglas used to describe arguments that predicted all kinds of evils that might follow certain changes in the law as the “parade of imaginary horrors.” I understand that some property owners – even though they don’t own the river – might fear misuse of their shorelines by trespassers, but there is so little public land – or water – for citizens to enjoy in Kansas. Governmental entities need to assist in the location and creation of more opportunities like this. Otherwise, these citizens will take their dollars, their jobs, their homes and the taxes they pay to some other state. We need to listen to the NIMBYs, and do what we can to solve their objections or lessen their fears, but we cannot continue to thrive as an economy if we frustrate progress.

  20. Ben
    Posted February 16, 2008 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Property owners point out that they currently have vandalism WITHOUT law abiding citizens present. Perhaps they should take note of the fact that criminals love isolation and the cover of darkness. Throw some light on them (and citizens’ eyes) and crime just might be reduced.

  21. Rog
    Posted February 17, 2008 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Just put the river access at bridge points. It’s city/county property. That way you don’t infringe on the rights of property owners.

  22. JWink
    Posted February 17, 2008 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Ben et al: This “river access project” sounds to me like a MAKE WORK, MAKE MONEY type of project. Called WPA back in the Great Depression days. Perhaps these access points can be built by young people with only shovels and wheel barrows to push the dirt around.

    We used to go canoeing on different rivers and I don’t recall needing a concrete ramp to get the canoes in and out of the rivers. In fact, in the Ozarks, we camped out along the rivers.

    Now if these in/out sites are for motor boats to be paid for by the taxpayers … I’m against this waste of public funds. Of course, our hold-over Sedgwick County Commissioners never saw a waste of taxes that they didn’t love.

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