Judging from the TV commercial touting Sunflower Electric Power Corp.’s proposed expansion of “Holcomb station,†coal-fired power plants make sunflowers grow and families grow closer. They also involve wind turbines. “The visuals overwhelmingly show images of a clean, healthy, sunflower-filled Kansas, hoping viewers will actually associate the Holcomb coal-fired power plant with beauty and health rather than what many may normally associate burning coal with, which is dirty air,†observed Washburn University political scientist Bob Beatty.
Sunflower president Earl Watkins said: “We think the public’s entitled to know both sides of the debate.â€
54 Comments
Gentle people,
I would like to propose a solution for all of the ugliness on the BLOG.
I know a lot of the people here personally and I’ve really had no animus toward anyone until yesterday.
If you would like to have a decent place for BLOGing and if you would like to find a solution (I have one to propose) please contact me by email.
Everyone that contacts me by tonight(Sunday) evening I will respond with my proposal.
hank@pixius.net
Just for a little update, I have had 10 positive responses to my request as of this morning at this time.
Most from people I know from meet ups or other friends. So far it is a pretty good representation of the BLOGers here.
I’ll email you all my plan and proposal and request input this evening. I’ll be busy to day until this evening.
Thanks for your continued support!
Hank
hank@pixius.net
I’d venture to guess that those “10″ you claim responded to your “plan” are your reichwing cronies.
This battle will NEVER end Price. We (the moderates of the world) will continue to engage you and your allies until YOU stop viewing the world through your warped, religion tainted, hate-filled glasses.
We all know THAT isn’t going to happen………..let the hostilities resume!
Thanks Hank for trying.
Back on topic, I wonder if Sunflower Electric Company, developer of the proposed twin coal-fired power plants out near Garden City/Holcomb was formerly associated with Lucky Strike and Camel cigarettes … or “cool, soothing, menthol,” was it Kent cigarettes?
Sunflower?
We don’t want or need your coal plant.
I’m for the Coal plants and so are the governors of WI, and PA. Reason they have coal to mine and consider it a resource, they believe clean energy is possible from the coal plants. Here is the link:
From the liberal Washington Post paper,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/23/AR2008022301286.html?sub=new
“I’m for the Coal plants and so are the governors of WI, and PA. ”
SO let them build the plant in WI or PA and you move there george. Saves on transport costs for the coal no?
JWink – good observations. The deniers are very reminiscent of those who swore in Congressional hearings that nicotine was not addictive and smoking was not bad for you. They were not ‘incorrect’; they were flat-out lying.
Apophis – I agree with Hank that the tone needs to cool off. Disgree? HELL YES! But not with what has been happening. There have been threads where I find myself scrolling down through all the garbage searching for anything real.
Agreed Ben. The blog just degenerates every night, and even during the day depending on what mood some of the wingnuts are in.
That is why I suggested Hank be sure to take fleetie, regular/jm/republikhan, gene raston, etc. with him.
Or maybe that is why he isnt making his new site public? HE doesnt want the nutty wingnuts either?
Guess I’ll have to scroll through ten thousand posts of vitriol to see what happened last night.
“Guess I’ll have to scroll through ten thousand posts of vitriol to see what happened last night.”
I did. Wished I didn’t.
“Sunflower president Earl Watkins said: ‘We think the public’s entitled to know both sides of the debate.’
And Sunflower’s “side of the debate” is apparently: “See? We like sunflowers and kids and families and windmills generating energy while turning in the Kansas sky(and pay no attention to the water depleting power plant short term job generating economic boondoggle behind the curtain!)!”
I dont get that commercial, so could someone tell me…
Were there any bodies of surface water in the ad? Or rivers or lakes of any kind? Even a swimming pool or a small town water tower.
If so, I call hypocrisy.
Ben
I don’t disagree with you on the tone of the blog. I’m more in agreement with ksfarmgrrl though, Hank needs to get his reichwing house in order before he comes telling those of use who are moderates that things need to change. McCluer and Hank’s own son, Nathan are of the most venomous here.
ksfarmgrrl,
The TV commercial has a short segment with an male adult and kid (father/son?), carrying fishing poles, walking out on a pier at a small lake,
Narration during that is: “… while safeguarding Kansas’ most precious resources”.
And the text “safeguarding” scrolls downs the lake, pier, and father/son segment.
Commercial is at link in header, in news section, or direct at,
http://www.holcombstation.coop/News/Holcomb_Sunflower_30_TV.wmv
I suggest watching with an empty stomach, or have a “receptacle” nearby.
Yeah Apophis, compared to CapnAmerica, WSClark and JR, I’m a real Satan. :)
Prejudice much?
“Sunflower president Earl Watkins said: “We think the public’s entitled to know both sides of the debate.””
Why doesn’t Earl Watkins tell the “public” the whole truth. Some examples,
There are much more important uses for Kansas’ limited water than cooling off huge amounts of coal-fired steam for the next 5 decades.
Higher end-use energy efficiency (Negawatts) is cheaper than building new coal-fired plants.
Future carbon taxes will raise the cost of coal-fired electricity.
Adding carbon capture and sequestration (IF it ever becomes feasible) to the plants will increase the costs.
There are currently very limited areas for sequestration, and questions on whether the storage is long-term.
Photovoltaic costs are rapidly dropping with advances in thin films, nanotechnology, etc, and also economies of scale.
Distributed generation, cogen, trigen, and other sources make much more sense than more old-fashioned, centralized, coal-fired plants.
CO2 from the Holcomb plant will quickly disperse globally , and not have any noticeable effect on sunflowers and other plants in Kansas — unless they pipe the exhaust thru greenhouses. Then what about mercury, sulfur, soot, etc.?
Sunflowers and other plants do not need elevated CO2 levels — they did just fine with CO2 at 280 ppm.
Why doesn’t Earl Watkins want the “public” to know the above facts?
Regular
Posted February 24, 2008 at 1:19 pm | Permalink
Yeah Apophis, compared to CapnAmerica, WSClark and JR, I’m a real Satan.
Prejudice much?
Starting it up like usual troll-boy? If you didn’t noticed, I was responding to Ben’s post; we don’t need you to chime in.
D
N
F
T
T
#
Apophis
Posted February 24, 2008 at 10:57 am | Permalink
Ben
I don’t disagree with you on the tone of the blog. I’m more in agreement with ksfarmgrrl though, Hank needs to get his reichwing house in order before he comes telling those of use who are moderates that things need to change. McCluer and Hank’s own son, Nathan are of the most venomous here.
#
Apophis
Posted February 24, 2008 at 1:48 pm | Permalink
Regular
Posted February 24, 2008 at 1:19 pm | Permalink
Yeah Apophis, compared to CapnAmerica, WSClark and JR, I’m a real Satan.
Prejudice much?
Starting it up like usual troll-boy? If you didn’t noticed, I was responding to Ben’s post; we don’t need you to chime in.
———————-
Oh I see Mr. Apophis – a post where you bring me up by my last name and I don’t need to chime in.
New rules or is it you can’t handle the truth? :)
maybe he just recognizes you for what u are — made your bed ass hole now you get to lie (again) in it
#
uhhuh
Posted February 24, 2008 at 2:06 pm | Permalink
maybe he just recognizes you for what u are — made your bed ass hole now you get to lie (again) in it
———————-
Or perhaps anonymous posters like yourself hiding behind yet another nic are part of the problem?
Everyone on this blog knows who I am and who I post under.
At least I don’t have to hide like you do uhhuh. :)
JimmyMac,
You’re the champion liar and name-caller of this blog. You’re just a sad “fantasy” — turn off the computer, and “blip”, you’re gone.
You lied about the New Orleans levees, and other issues.
You lie about what I’ve posted. Try to prove me wrong, without more lies, and/or name-calling.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2008/02/kansas-lawmakers-carbon-dioxide-is-life/#comment-299274
cosmos,
I have to ask you.
What is your hang up with the New Orleans levees?
I posted my opinion and quotes from other people (they were not mine.)
What is it about the Sierra Club that gets your blood boiling?
I mean I belonged to clubs and have had bad things said about them.
However, I don’t hold grudges, nor do I bring the same junk up over and over.
So what is your problem with someone posting a differing opinion than yours?
Perhaps if you wouldn’t try to insult other poster’s intelligence and evaluate their opinions, there would be a better place for all.
When you bash people for having their own opinion, you belittle your own position.
Here’s a hint cosmos – get over the New Orlean levees and the Sierra Club comments.
Sheesh – what a grudge holder you are on someone giving their opinion.
People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own (inaccurate) facts.
75% of all of the hate-speech on this blog would be gone if little Jimmy McCluer would leave like he promised he would (forever) on December 31st, 2007.
#
cosmos
Posted February 24, 2008 at 2:29 pm | Permalink
People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own (inaccurate) facts.
——————
Then blame the Congressman who made the quote I referenced and the Black American Environmental Consultants who had their own views.
As far as Global Warming, there are some truths to it, however, the approach to fixing it is more disastrous than anything in history.
Let’s address real problems like real pollution, starvation, conflict, health concerns and other matters.
CO2 is not on my list as priorities and when the Alarmists post alarmisms, I’ll call them out on it for screaming “the sky is falling” when there are other much more important matters to deal with.
#
Apophis
Posted February 24, 2008 at 2:33 pm | Permalink
75% of all of the hate-speech on this blog would be gone if little Jimmy McCluer would leave like he promised he would (forever) on December 31st, 2007.
————————-
You post more hate than I ever have Apophis. Just look at the posts from yesterday.
The foul-mouthed, mud slinging and down right cruel remarks by Chas, WSClark and MonkeyHawk.
Where are your comments on them?
Some of their comments on inexcusable. On any other forum, they would have been deleted and those posters would have been banned.
on inexcusable = are inexcusable
What posts did I make yesterday McCluer? It was kind of difficult to post all day yesterday when I spent the entire day (6:45-4:30) at Andover Central Middle School at the Wichita Regional of the Kansas Science Olympiad? There was no wireless internet available and I don’t have authorization to log on to their network.
I gues McCluer was caught in another LIE.
I was on for a bit of time in the evening, but didn’t make any flaming posts that I remember. I spent most of the evening vegging on the sofa.
D
N
F
T
T
Chas., MonkeyHawk, and WSClark are all constantly savaged by you and the other reichwingnuts on this blog.
You get what you deserve.
What happened to veaving forever on 12-31-07?
I admit I take cheap shots, but I never post hate speech like you Apophis.
You post constant hate speech on Christians and on anything that you don’t agree with. You use terms like “Reich Wing” and worse.
Legally and by definition Apophis, you are the purest example of hate speech users.
I admit I take cheap shots, but I never post hate speech like you Apophis.
bull every day in every way — you by far have had more posts removed —- and you stated that if you were to go to last summers shootout you’d need Nathan to watch your back — and recently how Nathan has your back —– don’t know why — you are spine less
“Then blame the Congressman who made the quote I referenced and the Black American Environmental Consultants who had their own views.”
No. Blame yourself for continuing to believe their early, inaccurate, speculative claims — long after the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers had admitted responsibilty for the design and construction flaws.
Reducing energy use (which reduces GHG’s) is generally cheaper than buying more fuel, regardless of the type of fuel.
People like JimmyMac who falsely claim that reducing GHG’s will cause economic disaster are also mostly the ones denying AGW.
Show me some of the hate-speech I have posted against “christians”
If “Reichwing” bothers you, don’t act that way.
Okay, unrepentant ones, you are without guilt and have never written anything out of line.
:roll:
By the way uhhuh poster.
Who is the spineless one here by not posting with their usual nic? :)
Welcome to the spineless crew uhhuh.
…………are you going to cry now McCluer?
Maybe promise to leave the blog forever?
Oh by the way, if I wanted I could post under any nic I wanted to, but don’t.
Think about it…you want to see Regular or 1,000 more hit and run trolls? :)
At least you have a regular (pun intended) target.
No Apophis, I don’t cry like some school teachers whining about their jobs.
Nice try though, middle school attempt at a dig from a Middle School Science Teacher. Fits nicely…
If that was an “insult”, it was very weak.
I am proud of what I do. It’s too bad YOU can’t do the job I do. Proceed to gloat about all of that substitute teaching you clain to have done.
Remember, it only takes 60 college hours to get a substitute teaching license.
You are pathetic McCluer.
Yes, Emergency Substitute teaching only takes 60 hours minimum – this is true.
I have twice that in my Bachelor’s and 30 more in post graduate Master’s degree.
But do keep posting lies by innuendo Apophis, you are very good at avoiding the truth at all costs.
Show one REAL lie I have ever posted troll-boy.
Just one.
One.
.
As I pointed out before Apophis, lying by innuendo.
Posting the minimum requirements of a Substitute teacher, then posting my name.
You have done this several times trying to make an implication.
It’s slick, but an obvious attempt to spread a lie.
If the shoe fits…
Posting the minimum requirements of a Substitute teacher, then posting my name.
If the shoe fits…
Carry on Apophis, I’m sure you can find someone else to hate on today. It’s just too easy for you not to.
(chortles)
Everyone has seen your lies McCluer……………..
For example, claiming that I made posts yesterday when I wasn’t even on-line………..
YOU are such a loser McCluer!
Really Apophis?
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
Show me where I claimed that you made posts yesterday.
I’ll wait…
Regular
Posted February 24, 2008 at 2:36 pm | Permalink
You post more hate than I ever have Apophis. Just look at the posts from yesterday.
I rest my case.
Many electric utilities have learned that the best way to help their customers lower their bills is with higher energy efficiency.
The customer buys less electricity, and the lower demand helps eliminate the need to build expensive new power plants, which would also increase their bills.
Wise utilities are offering rebates, zero percent loans, free CFL’s, etc, to encourage their customers to become more energy efficient.
But… it seems that Sunflower Electric Power Corp just “provides” electricity. Why…?
We now return you to the much more important issues on the WE Blog — false personal attacks, name-calling, lies, etc.
Gentlemen,
It’s called the marketplace of ideas; it gets rough, competing ideas clash, the sales pitches play on irrational fears and prejudices, get personal, slam the competition, play fast and loose with facts- just like in every other active market. Grow some calluses!
This blog’s vitality comes from the wide range of opinion presented here; we’re all opinionated as hell! If we all thought just alike we would’ve run out of anything to say to each other a long time ago.
If you want a blog of vigorous political discourse, you’ve found it. If you’re looking for a mutual mental masturbation society, keep looking; surely one is out there somewhere that will pat your little backside for you.
Another science denier gets slapped by the Courts:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/25/news/companies/tobacco_lawsuit.ap/index.htm?postversion=2008022513
Jed posted February 25, 2008 at 1:23 pm
“It’s called the marketplace of ideas; … play fast and loose with facts- just like in every other active market. Grow some calluses!”
Encouraging electricity consumers to be more energy efficient has been proven, in the real world, to do two things.
1) The consumers save money directly, because they use less.
2) They save again indirectly, because lower demand reduces the need for new (read expensive) power plants.
Do you want to build new power plants, and pay higher bills?
Or become more energy efficient, and pay less?
Ben said:
“JWink – good observations. The deniers are very reminiscent of those who swore in Congressional hearings that nicotine was not addictive and smoking was not bad for you. They were not ‘incorrect’; they were flat-out lying.”
In fact they are the same people. Check this out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_C._Marshall_Institute
Harry,
Frederick Seitz is on the Board of Directors at the George Marshall Institute.
And, wait for it…
http://www.desmogblog.com/node/2863
“Frederick Seitz and the Tobacco Industry
Seitz is the former principal scientific advisor to the RJ Reynolds medical research program.
…
Last year, DeSmogBlog uncovered a 1989 internal memo from tobacco company Philip Morris explaining that Seitz “is quite elderly and not sufficiently rational to offer advice.” ”
More at link.
Thanks Cosmos. This will work great in my Environmental Science Class. Lots of research material.
We have already watched Naomi Oreskes on YouTube. Great lady doing great work.
One Trackback
log college middle school…
Typically, the Chinkless method is preferred by log home manufacturers and the Tight-Pinned method is preferred by many do-it-yourselfers…