The mostly civil Democratic debate Thursday night produced no knockouts, gaffes or clear winner — and in that respect, Barack Obama probably won, because Hillary Clinton did nothing to stop his momentum.
Except for one lame attack that drew boos (the “change you can Xerox†taunt), Clinton kept to the high road and turned down several opportunities to attack Obama or draw clear contrasts — declining, for instance, to challenge his readiness to be commander in chief.
And as several observers noted, Clinton’s closing remarks carried a valedictory tone, suggesting for the first time a recognition that she might lose this race.
With polls showing a dead heat in Texas and a tightening race in Ohio, and Obama’s ground campaign surging, she might see the writing on the wall.
She seems to have decided that, instead of ending ugly, she will finish the campaign on a high note of graciousness to unify Democrats and preserve her own reputation within the party.
175 Comments
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7DF1E3CF937A35752C1A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print
Despite Hillary pounding at Obama’s “plagiarism,” she didn’t mind “borrowing” Bill’s closing in 1992 for her no doubt heartfelt and sincere words last night:
One night I saw Bill Clinton on the news say, “The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time.”
(Thanks to Talking Points Memo for the snagging the similarity.)
We KNOW Randy.
You’re another Obama swooner.
Senator Clinton cleaned that young man’s clock!
She comes off as increasingly articulate and versed in policy while Obama fumbles, stutters, and harps on about togetherness.
I don’t hear voices from the right calling for compromise.
The way she stared into the side of his head while he was talking must have been a touch unnerving.
Obama said:
“”The implication is that the people who’ve been voting for me or involved in my campaign are somehow delusional,” Obama said. “The thinking is that somehow, they’ve been duped and they’re going to see the reality of things.”
That is exactly my perception of Obama’s supporters. Maybe not so much “delusional” as naive.
They believe the right can be worked with. We see evidence every single day that proves otherwise.
Oh and Randy? You conveniently left out that Senator Clinton got a standing ovation.
“They believe the right can be worked with.”
I don’t think so. I believe that there are those in the middle we can work with – to CRUSH the rightie wing-nuts.
It has to be tough for Clinton supporters! How can she lose? Can she really be gracious in defeat? Will she just give up?
When the hope-change-yes-we-can candidate gets Texas and Ohio will Clinton supporters fall in line for the good of the party?
I’m really starting to enjoy this election season!
Yawn…
Pass the taters please…
uh…wait…I’m sleep blogging…
She’s starting to look like the Wicked Witch of the West caught out in a light rain!
“We KNOW Randy.
“You’re another Obama swooner.
“Senator Clinton cleaned that young man’s clock!
“She comes off as increasingly articulate and versed in policy while Obama fumbles, stutters, and harps on about togetherness.
“I don’t hear voices from the right calling for compromise.”
JR, do you have any self objectivity whatsoever? No one who watched the debate would come to the conclusion you did unless he or she started with the conclusion. For example, the statement: “She comes off as increasingly articulate and versed in policy while Obama fumbles, stutters, and harps on about togetherness.” is nothing more than a Clinton advocate talking point, it does not correspond whatsoever with the reality of the either’s performance in the debate. As in the past pre-Super Tuesday debate in California, they both did well.
I do think that Hillary does better on substance, but Obama does not come off as the lightweight his detractors like to portray him as.
I think these are both fine candidates. I personally do want to see Hillary win in Ohio and Texas because I think that this campaign is actually stengthening two strong candidates.
“She’s starting to look like the Wicked Witch of the West caught out in a light rain!”
See? There is a difference between people who see what they want to believe and those who look at reality. JR sees Clinton dominating Obama, and Hank sees Clinton looking like the Wicked Witch of the West. Given their posting histories, does anyone really think that one would have had to seen last night’s debate to predict either of their comments? Their posting history is what will tell you what they will say.
Actually, Obama did say something that will come back to bight him:
What was the NAME of his source, who told him that a unit in Afgahnastan was undermanned and poorly equiped due to Iraq?
That one will hurt him, later.
“That one will hurt him, later.”
Bullshit.
From Obama:
“There are no excuses. If a parent is not providing health care for that child, it’s because the parent’s not being responsible, under my plan. And those children don’t have a choice. But I think that adults are going to be able to see that they can afford it, under my plan; they will get it, under my plan.”
Well THAT sure sounds helpful! If you can’t afford health care it’s your fault!
Obama just keeps revealing more and more about himself. He wants to work with the right, he blames the victim…
Maybe he is running in the wrong party?
WS
The man wants to be “Commander in Chief” yet he pulls false anectdotes out of his ass.
It will hurt him, it was a rookie mistate.
Oh JR
Hillary said pretty much the same thing about childrens healthcare insurance.
Hillary is talking about GARNISHMENT remember?
The only voters that comment could hurt Obama with are the 25-30% that STILL support the Bush War of Choice on Iraq and they WOULDN’T vote for him anyway.
“The man wants to be “Commander in Chief” yet he pulls false anectdotes out of his ass.”
How do YOU know it is false?
Study JR:
http://www.healthcarebs.com/2008/02/03/hillary-choice-garnishment/
WS
Most voters dont want a President that makes things up.
Obama either made this up, out of nothing, or he is naive and listens to hearsay.
This never happened.
Count on it, he will not bring it up again and he will not explain it.
Obama knows he screwed up.
How do YOU know it is false?
An all inclusive health care coverage plan?
I’m in for that.
Much better than Obama and the Republicans offer. Are you endorsing Obama paulie?
WS
Because, if it was TRUE, he would have facts, figures, data, witnesses and a campaign commercial.
It is bullshit!
If true, it would be such an obvious hit on President Bush, that he would be going after it with both barrels, and we would have Senate hearings on the matter, with Clinton and Obama trying to hog the TV cameras at the hearings.
It is crap.
Obvious crap.
Only a partisan hack would not see that.
The smart Obama supporters are telling him to “put up or shut up” on this one, RIGHT NOW!
“Most voters dont want a President that makes things up.”
Like George WMD Bush and the WMDs and Saddam-alQuada connection? Oh yea – Bush didn’t make them up. Curveball did that for him! Then Bush, Powell, Rice and all the rest plaigerized Curveball!
J R – there are those of us who CAN afford to pay for coverage for our kids. What is needed is to improve availability and affordability at that level and then expect us to pay our fair share.
There are also those who CANNOT afford it. It is my understanding that both Hillary and Obama provide for coverage in those cases.
Ben
On the Health Insurance issue, BOTH Hillary and Obama have used the word “irresponsible” to define those who CAN afford health insurance, especially on their kids, and REFUSE to buy health insurance.
“Because, if it was TRUE, he would have facts, figures, data, witnesses and a campaign commercial.”
God, and you have the NERVE to call ME a partisan hack?
Damn, that is rich.
YOU may want it to be a big deal, Rossell, but it is certainly possible, even likely, that the troops in Afghanistan are undermanned and under-equipped.
The Taliban is resurgent in Afghanistan, they are controlling more of the country as time goes on and the central government basically only controls Kabul.
Why?
Since al Qaeda was based in Afghanistan, not Iraq, why aren’t most of our resources devoted to Afghanistan?
Eh?
My guess on what has happened follows…. My blog has been hit hard by New York ever since I posted my prediction on Gore/Obama. I bet Hill came by and saw that, was convinced
i was dead on, and decided to get with the program. Why I bet she is probably dancing for Al even now. Nicey nice from here to the convention.
You Dems really owe me!
Oh, and the post on my blog that gets the most cold calls is entitled Pink Hillary or Floyd the
Politico. I bet that got Hill and Rogers Waters to to drop by. Look for a Pink Floyd reunion concert at the Dem convention.
Yep, you Dems really owe me.
Well THAT sure sounds helpful! If you can’t afford health care it’s your fault!
JR, I know you aren’t blind and deaf. Obabma said “under my plan”. He wasn’t talking about the present, but about the future, under his plan. Stop being offended when no offense was made.
A Pink Floyd reunion??? Now that’s something I could stomach some of these politics for.
It’s time for some tough questions for the Dem candidates.
Let’s hear about Obama and Clinton’s positions on Gun Control.
1. Will they ban hand-guns?
2. Will they ban semi-automatic guns?
3. Will they sign another Brady Gun Ban Bill?
4. Will they sign bans on ammunition like hollow-points?
5. Will they restrict sales in any way?
6. Will they support nationwide concealed carry?
7. Will they work to ban concealed carry in all states?
Time for the Times to bring up all of the “alledged” and “rumored” affairs of Bill Clinton, and how Hillary Clinton stood up to Bill.
Someone who did NOT take the high road?
FBI says:
U.S. Congressman Richard G. Renzi(R), of Flagstaff, Arizona, along with two of his business associates, were indicted on multiple counts, including honest services wire fraud, extortion, and money laundering.
RD, JR hates Obama, and he’s thinks that enough. He’s gotten quite intellectually lazy lately.
Personally, I’m glad at least that the competing health care plans is being discussed, but we’re still getting to the real issue–cost.
I have more questions than answers. It’s pretty common knowledge that universal coverage is necessary as a component of bringing down costs, and thus I wonder whether Obama’s plan will actually succeed in doing so. It also scares me when he talks about “helping employers” to reduce costs. News flash, Barack: Corporate America will be glad to pocket the difference, and leave their employees with crap coverage. Will it be possible, sir, under your plan, to give them the finger, and get Congress-quality coverage–without paying horrendous individual premiums?
On the other hand, Clinton’s plan mandatory, regardless of cost. If it’s reasonable, fine, but then the counter-argument of course is auto insurance–where we all regularly pay thru the nose in a universal, mandated system. How, Senator, can you guarantee us that we won’t be saddled with premiums we can’t possibly pay–or else?
As you can see, I’m not particularly comfortable with either plan. Single-payer would be the obvious solution, but, alas, that’s not on the table.
Ideas?
P.S. Regarding Obama’s “nice” debating style: I did see one point of concern. When Obama insisted their differences were “philosophical,” Clinton corrected him, and he went along. It was bullshit to reduce their dispute to “philosophical differences” in the first place.
Yes well RD.
Obama thinks you can work with Republicans.
That dooms any “plan” he has from the start.
JR you want to kill all Republicans or do you hate Obama for another reason?
There is a sorry mess waiting our next president – the deficit, international relations that have been abused and broken, domestic problems that have been totally ignored during bushco years (as in NO domestic agenda!), the ill-conceived war and all the problems associated with that foray into stupidity.
The Democratic Party has two excellent candidates! I also think Clinton has the greater abilities and won’t have much of learning curve to make a real difference quickly, BUT I recognize that the two candidates aren’t far apart on their positions.
McCain really will continue in the path bushco has us on. So, it is important that we elect a president who is as different as possible from the one who put us in this mess!
For the sake of the forgotten domestic agenda, the economy, for universal health-care, for the Supreme Court, a return to honoring civil liberties let’s remember when a Democrat was sitting at the desk in the Oval Office the federal government had a surplus and the country was at peace.
Democrats can’t afford to fight one another. The fight for our country is too important! Let the process see itself out and give us a strong excellent candidate. Then it will be our responsibility and honor to support that person who we know will be head and shoulders above what we’ve got and what we would be stuck with if McCain were elected!
“RD, JR hates Obama, and he’s thinks that enough. He’s gotten quite intellectually lazy lately.”
You don’t keep up your reading Rage.
And I most certainly don’t hate Obama. I am not all that much FOR Clinton as I am wary of Obama.
I didn’t make him laud Ronald Reagan. And he hasn’t backed up from it.
As a matter of fact I have defended Obama in the past and recently. But I am not convinced he is going to aim the right direction to solve problems.
I’ve seen exacly two reasons to be wary of Obama:
“America was ready” was the Reagan train-wreck–while he was pandering for an endorsement from a conservative editorial board.
The stupid-ass McClurkin stunt, where he very likely didn’t properly check out the program, and then refused to offend those types because it bought him votes.
Both raise serious questions about the man’s judgment. Questions that need to be asked, as the campaign progress, not just repeating “Obama wants to work with Republicans” over and over like a goddamn skipping CD. Sheesh.
Tear into him, by all means. Please.
. . .and obviously I’m in too much of hurry to type coherently, and I’ll allow that I’ve missed a lot of posts.
Fair enough.
Yesterday on his show, Rush Limbaugh talked of his idea of bipartisanship.
That would be an all Republican House, Republican President and 90 Republican Senators 10 lib Senators kept around just to remind what a lib was.
This is who Obama says he can work with.
They are the ones that are down and they earned it. I don’t see extending a hand.
J R, everyone is smart enough to know there are some who can never be worked with, but there are many who can! Don’t worry about Obama trying to work with the fringe people — he knows, everyone knows, that is impossible. Now, stop sounding like a fringe person on the other end.
I’m sorry J R! I don’t have any right to tell any person what they can post. I’m sorry.
Linda
Right now, George W. Bush is finishing a tour of Africa. They LOVE him there.
Bush is recognized, internationally, as the man who has done the most to reduce AIDs and Malaria in Africa.
What “bruised International Relations”?? Could you name a country, please?
Do we care what thugs and dictators think of us?
France has a pro-American President now.
I can not think of a single Western democracy that is really hostile towards American policy.
Sure, they dont always agree.
So what?
At Peace? Under Clinton? Perhaps, if Clinton had responded to terrorism, on many different occassions in which the United States was attacked, it would not have seemed so “peaceful” — The USS Cole, various embassy attacks and the like. Oh, and how is Kosovo doing right now? Wasnt that a Clinton foreign policy “success”??
Health care? Part D prescription drug inclusion, into Medicare coverage, was expensive, but it has been a God-sent for millions of seniors.
Bush worked with Democrats on Part-D.
Bush worked with Democrats on Immigration, that got him in trouble.
Bush worked with Kennedy on Education.
We have Medical Savings Accounts now, a great idea.
What domestic policy was “ignored”?
Most of the budget is entitlement spending, Linda. Presidents have NO control over that, for the most part.
The deficit is a very very small percentage of GDP, and it is amazing, after Bush inherited a recession and we suffered an attack, that we have done as well as we have.
In fact, we had 52 straight months of increasing employment in this country, one of the best employment records in history.
The Federal Treasury is pulling in more money than ever before.
No, Bush is not perfect, but everything he has done, he has done with some Democrat votes, often a large number of Democrat votes.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, has been “ignored”!
Rage
Bill Clinton signed the “Defense of Marriage Act”
and many Democrats voted for it.
Why do Democrats keep giving Obama such a hard time over his “impurity” on the “gay marriage” issue?
Keep telling yourself that Bush is a great president, Rossell, keep telling yourself.
The current approval ratings for George W Bush = 30%.
Approval ratings for Bill Clinton at impeachment = 67%.
Yep, Paul you are in the DISTINCT minority on this one.
“The deficit is a very very small percentage of GDP”
And The National Debt is a HUGE percentage of the GDP.
About 67%.
Dang, that is SOMETHING to be proud of for you Republicans.
WS
Bill Clinton never really DID anything.
The sign of a good leader, a courageous leader, is that he or she is willing to “spend” political capital to accomplish some goal.
What, exactly, is the “legacy” of Bill Clinton?
The American Revolution rarely, if ever, had majority support.
Abraham Lincoln had very, very high negatives, even in the North.
“There is a smart way to protect our borders, and there is a dumb way to protect our borders.”
. . . Hog Futures Hillary, on her intended refusal to enforce border fence legislation
. . .
Obamanation and Hog Futures Hillary agree – no border fence, no border security.
Also, Hog Futures Hillary wants more of your federal tax money going to Texas to cover the health care, education and law enforcement costs incurred by illegal aliens, while cutting off immigration raids. She also says the illegal aliens who are not lawbreakers must have a path to legalization (=amnesty).
[Uhhh, all illegal aliens are lawbreakers, including state and federal laws against illegal entry and falsification of documents, applications, and contracts.]
Obamanation and Hog Futures Hillary also agree – if you want aliens to learn English, you must be willing to learn the Mexican language. (?!)
Meanwhile, 2 more Iraqis with false Bulgarian passports were detained by Mexican officials in Monterrey – bringing the total to four this month. They were headed to cross the de-fenceless border into the USofA. There appears to be a network of Mexican terrorists operating in Greece who are selling false Bulgarian passports for $10,000 to European and Middle Eastern terrorists that are entering through Mexico.
Meanwhile, Iraqis are still learning to fly in Forida, like the 09/11 hijackers, only now, it seems, they also learn how to land, in trainer planes.
Meanwhile, illegal alien Alainiss N. Morales (an alias), 23, was taken into custody on suspicion of criminal vehicular operation without a driver’s license, accused of running a stop sign and crashing a van into a school bus, killing 4 children and injuring 14, then giving a false name, near Cottonwood, MN on Tuesday.
WS
The deficit is best compared to income.
Total debt is best compared to assets.
Income statements and balance sheets are two different things.
National debt, compared to National Net Worth, is very, very small.
Well, Rossell, tell me this – what did your hero, Ronald F. Reagan DO about the terrorist attack on the Marine Barracks in Beruit?
Just answer that……………. not bullshitting around, no excuses, no “but Clinton!” just answer the question.
I’ll give you a hint to help you get started, it begins with “N.”
And Rossell, answer this question, since you are blaming Clinton for doing nothing about the attack on the USS Cole, even though it happened in the last three months of his presidency…………..
Since it was not certified that al Qaeda was behind the attack on the Cole until Bush took office, what DID George W Bush do about it?
I’ll give you a hint to get you started, it has something to do with “swatting flies.”
A Federal Judge has held Iran responsible for the Marine deaths, in Lebanon, at the hands of Hezbollah Terrorists.
Every United States President has tried to enforce that civil judgement.
At the time of the actual bombing, we had little evididence to prove, exactly, who was behind the bombing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing
My my parkay – you sure love name-calling don’t you. You must really be a cretin to have to do that rather than engage in any sort of intelligent discussion. Of course, from someone as brainless as you why should anyone be surprised.
“National debt, compared to National Net Worth, is very, very small.”
And the interest on the National Debt now totals nearly 35% of revenues and the Debt is estimated to rise by AT LEAST 35% over the next four years, yielding interests payments of nearly 47% of Federal revenues.
Are you cool with that, Rossell?
That is interest ALONE.
If an American family had interest payments of 47% of their total income, their banker would drag them out into the alley and beat the shit out of them.
“Every United States President has tried to enforce that civil judgement.”
Jeez, that makes me feel better – the Beruit incident was in – what 1983? At that time Reagan had six more years, followed by four from Bush the Smarter.
So we SUED them?
We lost 243 Marines in a terrorist attack and we SUED them?
A civil judgment?
With the exception of the 8 Clinton years the Republicans have been in charge since the early 80s 25 years —- immigration has become an “overnight ” problem …… in spite of the narrow mindedness of econ we are not revered world wide — we/ve taken our capacity to lead the world with our ability to care and turned it into democracy at the tip of a spear — we as a christian nation should be so much better than that we have allowed capitalism to trump democracy should work the other way around where we can take our prosperity and share it with the world instead we seem to price countries out of the market because they have no oil / diamonds or gold
…. We the people have allowed our politicians of both parties to put us on a road to killing the golden goose —— and I don’t think we can stop them
Obama thinks you can work with Republicans.
That dooms any “plan” he has from the start.
JR, the problem here is that you’re sounding like a Republican. Are you sure you’re in the right party? Stalemating because of partisanship will do more to ruin this country than just about anything. Except to have Congress and the CiC Republican. Just how well did that go?
Many of us hate the things that have happened over the past seven years. We, as liberals and democrats, have been abused in every way possible. It happens daily on these threads. But when you stoop to the level the right currently is at, you’re no better than them, and you’re only hurting yourself.
Obviously neither Obama or Clinton’s healthcare plan is totally hammered out. But what good would that do? It is going to take working together to get it done. If the Republicans decide they don’t want to work, then let them sit in the corner and pout like the 3-year-olds they’ve been acting like, and let the Dems move forward without them.
People are getting a clue. It’s taken more time that it should have, but they’re finally catching on. The playground bully usually gets his due, without much help from anyone. Remember karma?
“JR, the problem here is that you’re sounding like a Republican.”
That was my party of origin. I know how those people think.
Do you see them talking about “working together”? They don’t get the concept. They think in extremes. Something is their way or no way. Compromise is surrender.
Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion and my vote in Kansas largely does not matter anyway.
I’m sorry. I think the GOP will take an Obama and at the least run over him like a road apple and at worst make him one of them.
““There are no excuses. If a parent is not providing health care for that child, it’s because the parent’s not being responsible, under my plan.”
This is similar to what a Republican would say. The only modifier is “my plan” There is judgment and ego and an evident tendency to blame the victim for their status.
I continue to hope Obama will prove me wrong. But to this point, I don’t trust him. I cannot vote for him.
If you don’t vote for Obama, it’s just like a vote cast for McCain!
You don’t have to cross over, just don’t do anything where you are!
WS
This is a left wing group.
They say that interest on the debt is only 8% of the total budget.
They disagree with putting the “trust fund programs” on the budget list.
I do not.
We will, eventually, have to subsidize Medicare and Social Security from the Federal General Fund.
All expenses belong “on budget”:
http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm
WS
GDP is like annual income, or your Federal 1040.
National Net Worth is like your Estate Tax.
The net worth of all Real Estate, Stock holdings, autos, personal property and private businesses in America DWARFS the national debt.
“We will, eventually, have to subsidize Medicare and Social Security from the Federal General Fund.”
We already do – and if a “Leftist” organization makes a statement that is wrong – then it is wrong.
It doesn’t make a difference – look at the charts.
And I can’t help but notice that you have ignored both questions that I asked…………….
Reagan and the Beruit attack and Bush on the Cole attack.
And a “civil” judgment is just not going to do it – if Clinton had sought a civil judgment against the perpetrators of the first WTC bombing, the Republicans would have shit themselves.
You brought up Clinton’s alleged “lack of action” regarding the Cole, now answer as to why Bush did not do a god damned thing.
“National Net Worth is like your Estate Tax.”
So, are you advocating that we begin selling our National assets, Rossell.
How much do you think we can get for Yellowstone?
Your comment would have some validity, Rossell, if the government OWNED everything in America.
Thank God they don’t, or Bush would have sold them already.
WS
Clinton was free to respond to the Beirut attack, as well.
What did Clinton do?
Also, didnt the Cole attack happen under Clinton?
WS
NO, you are Wrong!
Currently, Social Security has a ficticious “Trust Fund”.
Currently, Medicare has a ficticious “Trust Fund”
Both of those “Trust Funds” are nothing more than accounting gimmicks which transfer money, from Medicare and SS to the General Fund, NOW, and — latter, will transfer money from the General Fund to the “Trust Funds” —-
However, the Trust Fund Gimmick aside, currently SS tax revenue exceeds SS cost.
Currently, Medicare revenue exceeds Medicare costs.
WS
You are comparing National Debt to Annual GDP figures,
It is better to compare debt to assets.
Also, our national WORTH is what will generate future income, and future tax revenues.
Only economic growth will pay our bills.
Nothing else, other than an economic growth policy, can save this country.
So, are you advocating that we begin selling our National assets, Rossell.
We’re getting closer to that every day. States and counties are selling their roads. No reason why selling Yellowstone is that far off.
You are all being ridiculous.
Everyone seems to agree that it is appropriate to compare deficits to GDP. I would argue that it is also wise to compare BUDGETS to the GDP.
It is the Budgets that keep going up, way too fast.
However, Revenue has increased by record amounts, as well, the last several years.
So, we are all used to comparisions of the deficit to the GDP.
What yardstick do we use for the National Debt?
Productive capacity is the way to measure that figure.
There is no easy way to figure the national wealth.
Total Stock Market Capitalization would leave out small businesses, and companies not publicly held in the form of stock shares.
Also, realestate “wealth” could be figured, rather easily, off of the various state property tax roles, for those states that have a property tax.
Still, much industrial real estate is owned by publicly traded companies.
I do not claim that it would be easy to come up with an exact figure, as far as “national wealth” is concerned.
However, ALL taxes are taxes on WEALTH or EARNINGS.
Our National Wealth is a very good indicator of our ability to pay off debt.
Our National Debt is a very small figure, compared to the national wealth of our BUSINESS assets!
“Also, didnt the Cole attack happen under Clinton?”
In October 2000, less than three months before he left office and BEFORE the attack was certified by the CIA as having been perpetrated by al Qaeda.
What did Bush do after the CIA certified that al Qaeda was behind the attack?
“What did Clinton do?” (re. Beruit.)
The same thing that Reagan (your hero) did and the same thing that Bush the Smarter did.
“Also, our national WORTH is what will generate future income, and future tax revenues.”
At what point, when the interest alone on the National Debt, will the Republicans realize that we cannot continue to borrow and spend?
The economy is NOT going to grow by 35% over the next four years, but the Debt is going to grow by that amount.
Simple math will tell you that if we continue to spend like a bunch of drunken Republicans, sooner or later, the interest will exceed the revenues.
It is just basic math.
“Our National Debt is a very small figure, compared to the national wealth of our BUSINESS assets!”
We still haven’t paid off the debt from the Second World War.
What does that tell you?
WS
BULL
You simply don’t know what you are talking about.
Bonds are issued for 30 year terms.
The oldest Bond, or oldest Debt out there, in other words, was issued in 1978.
#
WSClark
Posted February 22, 2008 at 8:29 pm | Permalink
“Our National Debt is a very small figure, compared to the national wealth of our BUSINESS assets!”
We still haven’t paid off the debt from the Second World War.
What does that tell you?
—————————-
It means worrying about the National Debt hasn’t been a concern for the past 60+ years nor should it be.
WS
OK
Where are the Republicans promising any NEW spending?
You go on and on about deficits and the debt.
When have you ever said that we can not afford the programs offered by Hillary or Obama?
Even Hillary says “The Couhtry can’t afford all of my ideas” —-
When, WS, have you EVER criticized a Democrat spending program?
I don’t agree entirely, but this is what Ruddy has to say about Obama:
http://www.newsmax.com/ruddy/?s=al&promo_code=45A1-1
The estate and capital gains taxes SCREAM to be reinstated.
And our founding fathers had an idea as to government funding VERY applicable in our current situation of an unfair global trade market.
TARRIFFS! If they won’t make stuff here then tax the crap outta the imports.
“BULL”
Look it up, Rossell, we have never been down to ZERO National Debt since before the Second World War.
“It means worrying about the National Debt hasn’t been a concern for the past 60+ years nor should it be.”
At what point should we worry about it – when the interest payment exceed 50% of the revenues?
Or about 2014, whichever comes first?
“Where are the Republicans promising any NEW spending?”
Increases in defense spending that we cannot afford.
“When, WS, have you EVER criticized a Democrat spending program?”
All the time, bozo, all the time – I stated months ago that National Health Care is off the table – Bush already spent the money chasing Saddam Hussein around.
“I don’t agree entirely, but this is what Ruddy has to say about Obama:”
Who’s Ruddy and why should we care what he thinks?
“…then tax the crap outta the imports.”
You people do not seem to understand who REALLY pays the taxes. Corporations don’t, the customer does. How else could it work?
Exxon/Mobile paid those billions in taxes. Where did that money come from?
He is a well known personality in the political world.
Not surprised you have no knowledge of him.
“The oldest Bond, or oldest Debt out there, in other words, was issued in 1978.”
So, were we at a National Debt level of ZERO in 1978?
Naw.
I guess you have never heard of borrowing to pay debt, Rossell.
Check it out before you make anymore REALLY stupid remarks.
JR
Tarriffs are NOT comming back.
It wont happen.
How many airplanes will Wichita sell, when our global markets dry up?
How much wheat will Kansas sell?
How much beef will Kansas sell?
Tarriffs are a dumb idea, supported by very stupid people.
“Increases in defense spending that we cannot afford.”
This is another thing wrong with you people.
We cannot NOT afford it.
What good is anything if we are not defended?
And JR
We STILL have an inheritence tax.
That is a dumb tax by the way, in that it only serves to employ attorneys to draw up trusts and estate plans.
That tax screws up family owned farms and businesses. It forces partnerships to convert to corporations. That is really all it does.
—-
Also, JR, we STILL have a capital gains tax. The fact is, capital gains tax revenues actually went UP after the capital gains rate was cut.
“You people do not seem to understand who REALLY pays the taxes. Corporations don’t, the customer does. ”
That’s the problem. We have allowed this sort of thinking to become institutionalized.
Higher tarriffs = fewer sales. You can only raise your pass on costs to a certain point before the returns go negative in sales.
THEN the stockholders have to take the hit they’ve been ducking the last several decades> THEY have to absorb the cost of the market they currently are benefitting from. This has the side effect of making American workers competetive.
Win win.
Well except for the stockholders. We don’t need to get too broke up for them.
“He is a well known personality in the political world.”
You must have been talking about RUDY GHOUL-IANI – who cares what he has to say?
“What good is anything if we are not defended?”
We already spend more than the rest of the world combined on “defense.” How much more should we spend?
WS
The United States has no debt older than 30 years.
Actually, the current debt is not an issue at all, compared to the actuarial liability of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
Government promised benefits will cost us far more than all of our outstanding debt.
This country cannot endure by only domestically producing airplanes and food.
“The United States has no debt older than 30 years.”
So, we refinanced – what’s the difference – we still owe money from the Second World War.
Unless, Rossell, you are saying that the Debt was ZERO in 1978.
Hint: It wasn’t.
JR
I think I understand your basic problem:
You are a coward, economically speaking.
I wish I did not have to be so harsh, but that is what you are.
You have taken NO risk at all, it appears, with your own money.
Yet, you loath those who HAVE risked their own wealth, in order to make a profit.
Do you consider yourself too stupid to make a good investment, on your own?
Are you so paranoid that you can not find a company or an investment that you can trust?
Wealth, in this country, is based on willingness to except risk.
You are poor, JR, because you are a coward.
Grow some stones, JR, and join the capitalist world. Nobody is stopping you.
However, just because you are too much of a wimp to participate in the American Dream, it does not give you the right to try and ruin that dream, for those of us who work hard and DO risk our own capital.
“Government promised benefits will cost us far more than all of our outstanding debt.”
All the more reason to get rid of Republican supply side borrow and spenders.
We need to have a government of Democratic pay as you go’ers.
“Tarriffs are NOT comming back.
It wont happen.”
It has to. That or the American middle class is going to disappear.
China uses tarriffs against us. And our labor cannot compete with theirs. Nor should it be expected to.
A nation that cannot manufacture cannot survive.
“Well except for the stockholders. We don’t need to get too broke up for them”
By:
J R
Posted February 22, 2008 at 8:52 pm | Permalink
Check this out. We have the thinking of the base of the democrat party.
A complete mis-understanding of how things work.
Such an amazing lack of (please excuse me) of Econ101.
Work my ass Rosell.
An honest day of work and you’d fall over dead.
YOU are the epitome of the problem. YOU produce nothing but paper wealth. And you do it at the expense of American workers.
And I clearly hit a nerve by suggesting tarriffs because they would hit people like you right in the forehead.
WS
Even if I bought into your “rollover” logic, which I don’t, think of it this way:
$1000.00 in 1945 is worth just about $35.00 today. (5% inflation cuts the value in half every 14 years.)
Even IF your “rollover” or “refinance” argument held up, and it does not, it is a dumb argument to make. Any “debt” refinanced from that time is really nothing at all, in today’s dollars.
—-
More to the point, who are YOU to say what was funeded by current revenues, and what was funded by new Treasury Bond issues?
Standard accounting would view Treasury Obligations and the first expenditure to be paid, from new revenues.
Therefore, any new debt would be issued to pay for new programs.
“A complete mis-understanding of how things work.”
Oh I know very well how things work fleetie.
But even someone as dense as you has to see. It aint working. And history has examples for what ultimately happens along the path we are on. They are not happy endings.
JR
NO Tarriffs would hit Union workers the hardest.
You just showed your “loyalty” or lack thereof, to the aircraft workers of Wichita.
Wichita aircraft manufacturing would be destroyed by a trade war. Tarriffs would cause a trade war.
It is not going to happen.
Also, I am smart enough to make money, no matter who is in power and no matter what crazy scheme they come up with.
JR, you idolize attorneys as your candidates. What do attorneys produce?
I happen to think that the average attorney is very hard working. I think they should be compensated for the time spent, on education and keeping current on the law. However, they don’t manufacture much of anything, do they?
You crank out these insults without any basis of understanding, sometimes.
You can not name a single Democrat candidate or operative who has not worked in the service professions, like accounting, law, finance etc.
You seem to envy those who have taken risks, yet you want to punish risk taking.
Your tax policy would make America into a third-world country, overnight.
By the way, American Exports are ALSO at an historic high right now.
JR
The only thing that isnt working is your twisted attitude.
More Americans are working than ever before in history.
America is richer, today, than ever before in history.
You envy the success of others, because YOU don’t have the guts to do what others have done.
Put your money where your mouth is and INVEST in something.
That is how money is made, in this country.
Until then, well, quit complaining.
You have done NOTHING to deserve financial rewards.
That is the only reason you have no financial rewards.
You are still deliberately missing the point, Rossell – no matter how you slice it, the pie is about to be consumed by interest and you continue to defend the borrow and spend practices of the Republicans.
As I said – simple math – keep borrowing and the portion of Federal revenues consumed by INTEREST will continue to grow.
Sooner or later, we will reach that tipping point where we CANNOT afford to borrow any longer.
By the way Rossell, what would we do if the Chinese suddenly decided that we could no longer borrow from them?
What, fire a nuke at them?
“YOU produce nothing but paper wealth. And you do it at the expense of American workers.”
J R
Posted February 22, 2008 at 9:03 pm | Permalink
It’s only getting better. Is it clear yet!!
What a bunch of dopes!
“Therefore, any new debt would be issued to pay for new programs.”
What a crock…………………………..
What NEW programs are you referring to, Rossell?
Defense?
The War on Iraq?
Homeland?
Damn, you are a true borrow and spend Republican.
“More Americans are working than ever before in history.
America is richer, today, than ever before in history.”
Ah, because there are more of us than ever?
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh……………..
“More Americans are working than ever before in history”
In multiple jobs, long hours and with receeding benefits.
Just the way you and yours want it paulie.
You are no deeper than your own wallet.
I’ll give it to ya though paulie.
No half measures with you.
When you sold out you stripped your soul to the bare walls.
No bothersome concerns as to country or countrymen. No irksome pangs of conscience as to the nation our kids will inherit.
Just you and the whole universe concentrated like a booger on the end of your nose.
WS
No, your math is wrong.
As long as GDP or growth continues, there is no reason to think that the proportion of revenues used to pay the debt will go up.
You are using “static accounting” without taking growth into account.
WS
Average wealth is ALSO up, by every measure I know of.
WS
You are the one who claims that we are still paying off our “debt” from WW2.
I have proven you wrong.
We have no debt that is older than 30 years.
“As long as GDP or growth continues, there is no reason to think that the proportion of revenues used to pay the debt will go up.”
Ah, Rossell, the Debt is estimated to go up to AT LEAST $12.5 trillion over the next four years.
Do you REALLY think that the GDP is going to grow by 35% over over the next FOUR god damned years?
If you do, please sell me a dime of what YOU are smoking.
JR
Buy some benefits for your family.
You “own” a business, don’t you?
How is it that you, a “business owner” can fault other businesses, for their benefits, or lack thereof, yet provide NO benefits, from your OWN COMPANY????
“I have proven you wrong. We have no debt that is older than 30 years.”
So then the National Debt was at ZERO thirty years ago, right Rossell?
In 1975, the National Debt was $542 billion.
Did we pay that off between ‘75 and ‘78?
If we didn’t, we just REFINANCED THE DEBT.
That hardly makes it better, dumbass.
“Put your money where your mouth is and INVEST in something.”
Sweat equity is where I live paulie.
It also happens to be what built this country.
For a preview of where such as paulie and his will get us, witness the dot com meltdown not so long ago.
Wealth that is only in a ledger cannot be the foundation of a country. Especially when it is at the whim of soulless goons like paulthecon.
JR
Save your sermons, hypocrite.
You clearly would destroy American businesses, just for spite, because you feel you have failed in life and you want to pull everyone else down with you.
Some of the best business people I know have suffered failures, but they keep fighting, learn from their mistakes, and eventually win out in the end.
You?
You have to blame someone else.
To you, “Success” = “Sellout” so you have decided to be poor.
Poverty was YOUR decision JR.
Live with your decision and quit complaining.
By the way, I am guessing your “Union Brothers” can stand to be around you.
That is the ONLY reason you would not have an aircraft job, today. The factories are all BEGGING for workers.
JR
The dot.com boom was under BILL CLINTON remember?
A great many Democrats were involved in that melt down, as well, as I recall.
“The dot.com boom was under BILL CLINTON remember?”
Yeah, Clinton was responsible for that, too.
Damn, I got a flat tire on my truck in 1994, also. I wonder if Clinton was to blame for that, too?
Oooh I DID hit a nerve didn’t I paulie?
Hey keep on the road we are on.
It won’t end well for you.
Can or Cant stand you? It is an open question.
You act so “union loyal” yet, you are probably the type to spray paint thinner on cars and drop nails in driveways.
So, your Union pals dont like you much, do they JR?
WS
JR brought up the Dot Com stuff, in a political attack against Republicans.
So, it is OK for him to bring it up, but not OK for me to remind people that it happened under Clinton?
(By the way, the tech bubble burst when Bill Clinton sued Microsoft, so YES Clinton did have something to do with it!)
The dot com bust was the fault of folks like paulthecon.
He can’t make or do anything. But he can play at paper wealth.
Again, JR
Why cant a loyal union guy like you get a job in this town?
There MUST be a story there, somewhere.
Manufactureres are begging for workers.
What in the world did you do, to get “black listed” JR?
The union where I was was infested with toady sell outs like you paulie.
And I’ve no further interest in making money OR airplanes for someone else.
But I WON’T sell out those good folks who do.
Like you did?
You’d sell your own country for the right price.
So, Rossell, why didn’t Reagan do anything about the Marine Barracks attack and why didn’t Bush do anything about the USS Cole attack?
Just curious, you forkinhypocrite?
I knew people like you paulie.
They’d get good at sucking up to a particular mid manager. THEN when a new mid manager came in and started marking his terrritory, the same folks would run crying “help me!” to the union.
JR
I had my first job at age 16.
I have never gone more than a couple of weeks without work, since then, in my entire life.
Again, where did Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton make THEIR money?
Do you have any idea how many stock brokers, bankers and financial people the Clintons had in their cabinet, and in their circle of friends?
To you, insults are relative.
It is OK to do or be anything, if you are a Democrat.
Also, your envy is showing.
I am guessing that you are too timid to make anything out of yourself because you don’t think you are smart enough.
Hey, education is an investment as well.
So, you will not invest your money in another company, to get ahead.
And, you will not invest your money in education, to get ahead.
But, you will spend hours and hours, every week, bashing others who have taken risks and used their brains, to get ahead.
The “Rich” pay a higher percentage of total tax revenues, today, than ever before in history.
Raising tax rates will only make the rich STOP investing, which will decrease jobs and decrease tax revenues and decrease the percentage of revenues paid by the “rich”.
Nature abhors a vacuum paulie.
If the rich lose interest or the possibility of getting richer on the easy and quit?
It only makes room for someone up and coming.
THAT is what scares you. You can’t do or make anything. You are a parasite on people who already have money.
JR
Your coworkes hate your guts.
Just admit it.
You will feel better afterwards.
Come on, it is the first step in your recovery, just admit it, your personality made you a failure at work!
Now, you cling to your personality with foolish pride, thinking, somehow, that changing for the better would be a “sell out” —
You sold out JR.
You sold out to a sick Ego that will not conform to society.
It is a free country. You can be a loner and full of hate and envy if you want.
Just dont blame the rest of us.
Your attitude, and nothing but your attitude, is holding you back.
And NOT to disrespect those who live in the upside down world you and yours have made paulie.
Where labor is disrespected at the expense of profit?
But take away your ledger? And you are asking me if “do you want fries with that?”
You’ve gone awfully defensive paulie.
Who you trying to convince? Me or yourself?
“Your coworkes hate your guts.”
Hardly! You are projecting from your own experience. I was ELECTED to represent my fellow workers.
YOU sold out your fellow workers.
JR
You are a joke!
I am affraid of very little, actually.
Nobody who knows me at all would recognize your characterization of me.
I hold a mirror to your face, and you hate it.
You MUST paint me as “evil” because, otherwise, there might be some truth to what I say about you.
I honestly want what is best for you, JR.
No election can fix what is wrong with you.
Only YOU can fix what is wrong with YOU.
And, just a hint, only YOU seem to think that there is NOTHING wrong with YOU!
They see themselves as the self-appointed guardians of the blogs. Their sole purpose is to be disruptive, name-calling, and insulting. They zero in on anyone NOT proclaiming liberal idealogy.
Chas and JR have it in for “big business” and CEO’s.
They believe that all sin in the country originated from business leadership. At some point, they held jobs. At the very low end of the payscale, they resent management. They even believe middle level managers are part of the “evil empire” out to get them.
If only they realized it is business and the leadership thereof which makes American great.
Not to toe the line, management on up; CEO’s and COO’s, truly don’t give a shit about the little guy.
It really isn’t their job “to care”. They are after the going concern, and that is profits.
Profits, is what Americans really want and need in our industry. Profits drive the stock market, which most Americans are part of one way or the other.
As a worker, it is possible to rise above all this. Work hard, take the initiative, and do the job to help the company grow. Don’t EXPECT anyone to care.
Don’t expect parades or rewards. Just do the damn job you were hired to do.
As a worker, I don’t have bad feelings for my leadership. I respect and am thankful for them.
I work hard, am recognized for that, and have moved up the food chain so to speak. But I don’t expect them to give a rats ass about me. I am smart enough to know that isn’t in the cards and that’s how it is supposed to be.
People have given a lifetime of work to their employers. But once they are gone, they will be forgotten. There will be no permanent memorial to us.
We should just do our jobs, do the best for the corporation, and help the company grow.
Don’t expect big rewards and you won’t be disappointed. The “job” is just a small part of life. No need to get ulcers over it. No need to rebel or blame management for wrongdoings where none exist. Don’t expect something they cannot provide.
Work hard and play hard. Take care of yourself and your family. Because NO company is going to.
And here is what really hurts – no GOVERNMENT is going to change that relationship.
Government, even socialist ones, know that businesses must be profitable. Some will talk big about “the evil CEO’s (business)”, but in reality politicians – even democrats KNOW they need industry.
You will never make “the man” care. You will never strip him/her of their big earnings and CEO perks.
Stock holders expect to make the highest earnings on their investments.
Gotta walk on some people to do that. Gotta shuffle some cards and make it look good. But regardless, the businesses will continue to exist solely to make a profit.
It is hard for some people, like the bitter feelings expressed by Chas and J R, to accept that.
Because they have such low self esteem, they don’t see their role or place in the organization.
So they dream of taking “the man” down. Certain politicans will give them lipservice to get elected.
But they will not change the machinery of life.
Oh and as usual when you meltdown, your spelling is going.
And what is up with capitalizing “ego”?
That was a slip huh?
JR
Your coworkers dont want you back.
If the Union you tell us you love so much cared about you at all, you would have a job.
They hate you JR, because you have ZERO people skills.
I have said, several times over the years, that you remind me of the type of Union thug who would squirt paint thinner on cars and drop nails in driveways of your co workers.
I think I am right about that.
I think that is why they do not want you anymore.
“You are a joke!”
I’m not the one who is ranting paulie.
So, how about Reagan and Bush II, Rossell?
Uh yeah paulie.
Um….I quit.
“They hate you JR, because you have ZERO people skills.”
Yeah I think that is why I was elected as a steward. Like my father before me.
I’m happy to help you embarrass yourself here paulie.
Kitrel
I could not have said it better.
Thanks!
Ooops better be clear.
I quit my union job.
I DO NOT quit here. Not as long as such as paulthecon are still drawing breath.
JR
You QUIT a job, that had benefits, and now you come here and whine, wanting us taxpayers to pay for you and your child?
It figures!
I am guessing that you quit to avoid getting fired.
The record will show that paulthecons natural ally is the diseased welfare recipient “kittrel” aka JM aka etc etc…
I’ve asked nothing for myself paulie.
I DO think America’s children and people should have health care.
Most of America agrees with me.
THAT scares you as well.
Because you make your living on the suffering of others.
J R,
Your name calling is immature and telling.
It is not an argument.
And that is pretty much where your whole party is there paulthecon.
Sobbing and screaming and lashing out.
Because you see the free ride is coming to an end.
Again, so, how about Reagan and Bush II, Rossell?
Maybe paulie had a stroke?
One can hope.
Well as he has detonated and is now in the company of a known lunatic, I’ll retire.
“Because you see the free ride is coming to an end.”
Only in your dreams J R. Only in your dreams.
Demcorats realize that industry and private industry is what makes the world go round.
They will not kill it. They will give you a BJ to make you THINK they will attack it.
But reality is they cannot live without it.
Get a job. Work hard. And you too, may move up the ladder.
Hey Clark: pass-pass puff puff.
How’s that dope smoke working fer ya?
JR
So you “Hope” a sroke upon me?
You are the most hateful person on this Blog, yet you presume to tell the rest of us how to treat one another?
By the way, Hillary and Obama BOTH think you are irresponsible, and they will FORCE you to pay for your insurance.
Okay, Rossell, you have evaded the question long enough……………..
You condemn Clinton for “doing nothing” after the attack on the USS Cole, yet Bush II did nothing and you have no answer for that.
So, what up?
Are you a hypocrite or are you just two-faced?
AmWay, I am doing just fine – how is your police investigation coming? Gonna have me arrested soon?
By the way, I am drinking a beer right about now – wanna see my ID?
What actual congressional action do you DREAM that congress will enact to end whatever the “free ride” is?
Do you think Edgar Winter is coming back anytime soon?
Come on and take a free ride. Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah.
It’s all a dream JR. Unless you can quote a candidate.
WS
The USS Cole attack was a Al-Quida attack.
George W. Bush has been pounding Al-Quida for quite some time now.
We have killed tens of thousands of terrorists, since 9-11.
Clark,
I don’t deal with druggies. In real life, most people would avoid you.
Drugs kill.
Since Hillary was overheard saying she was going to the hospital of the injured escort cop, I’d bet a dollar toa donut the RW mouthpieces are going to claim it was staged! They have no shame.
“George W. Bush has been pounding Al-Quida for quite some time now.”
What did George the Stupid do between taking office and September 11, 2001.
Ya need some help with that one, Rossell?
You condemn Clinton because he didn’t “do anything” after the attack and before he left office less than three months later, so just WHAT the Hell did Bush do between January 2001 and 9/11?
Need some help, Rossell?
It only took the worst attack on American soil to spur GW into action!
Of course he still hasn’t caught the master mind.
Of course it was staged@!
Do you think Hillary or Bill give a darn about a cop? They didn’t care for the military, in fact Bill refused to return their salutes during his time in office. The military loathed them and Bill and Hillary, “Hell no We won’t go!” dope users hate
the military too.
You think they care about the cop? They probably staged the death too.
“We have killed tens of thousands of terrorists, since 9-11.”
That is where you are wrong, Rossell, we have killed ten of thousands of Iraqi insurgents.
Very few were al Qaeda.
Even the Pentagon estimates that only 5% of the insurgents in Iraq were foreign fighters. Al Qaeda was/is a Saudi/Afghani organization.
“In real life, most people would avoid you.”
Thank God, I hate people.
Whoops! That’s wrong, I just hate right wing yahoo idiots.
My bad.
Clinton in fact wanted Osama Bin Laden as his own
enforcer. Bill Clinton was in love with the Saudi oil tycoons as much as anyone.
Bin Laden, was supposed to secure the vital oil route to the former USSR for Bill.
When OBL acted up, Clinton lobbed two cruise missles at the outhouses in an abandoned terrorist
camp in Afghanistan. Guess he showed them who was boss (not to mention changing the focus away from his abuse of women, adultery, and lying under OATH!)
And you want to bring em back?
Damn, and you call ME a dope smoker, AmWay?
“They didn’t care for the military, in fact Bill refused to return their salutes during his time in office.”
Bullshit.
DA, you ARE a (self-admitted) drug abuser.
Hey, KSGolfNut, glad to see you finally made bail! I hope those big old (wink, wink) boys didn’t treat you too badly.
Are you able to sit yet?
=)
further proof.
Did you need an ass tampon after you got out of the slammer, Golfie?
I hope that they at least allowed you a Monica moment or two to save you from further damage.
Damn, I hope you get better soon – I would send you a “Get Well Soon” card but I hate your guts.
Golfnut,
WS just wants to be me.
“WS just wants to be me.”
Nice try, McCreepy, but I am strictly heterosexual, sorry to disappoint you.
Nothing wrong with being gay, but it’s just not my style.
Golfie, on the other hand, has to decide between being gay or straight every day, sometimes every hour on the hour.
He thinks that homosexuality is a choice, therefore he chooses to be straight – some days.
Actually, Golfie is fat and ugly, with a big belly and really, really bad breath, so his “choices” are very limited.
Sucks to be him.
BDM,
I’ve proven DA (WS) wrong so many times… it’s not even a challenge.
Notice how he resorts to personal attacks? Typical.
He even emailed me long ago threatening to meet me and fight.
“He even emailed me long ago threatening to meet me and fight”
No dumbass, you offered to meet me at your YWCA and fight – you made the offer not me.
Of course, you gave me about three minutes to respond.
It must be all those high class Scotch and Water’s that have numbed your brain.
But anyway, why prompted you to crawl out of your hole, Golfie?
Wife leave you again?
I guess calling someone a Drug Addict isn’t a personal attack in the right wing idiot world.
Of course, Dave thinks he’s a lady’s man.
And he is, he just has to pay them big bucks to play the game with him.
Loser.
In that photo it looks like they is bout ready to kiss!
That or Obama’s gonna smack Hillary up the side of her head with his left hand!
and Obama was dealing Crack.
and they all screwed the wench in the morning!
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