As Eagle columnist Bob Lutz noted the other day, 2008 should see some planning for how to blow the roof off the downtown arena with a big opening event for January 2010. It may be too soon to book Bruce Springsteen, Garth Brooks, “Hannah Montana†or Celine Dion (the last will open Tulsa’s BOK Center next November), but it’s not too soon to schedule a big basketball game. Lutz nominates Wichita State versus Kansas State. “We know by now Bill Self at Kansas doesn’t want to play Wichita State — certainly not in Wichita,†Lutz wrote. “But K-State’s (Frank) Martin seems like the kind of guy who doesn’t back down from anything. So, the Wildcats should come to Wichita to give the arena the kind of big first event it deserves,†complete with banquet, autograph ceremony, past stars, etc. Sounds like a fine idea for somebody to get going on.
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69 Comments
Jim Schaus was nice enough to write me back after I questioned WSU using the downtown Arena.
He was concerned about losing concession money, paying a rental fee and potential parking issues. He wasn’t against the idea, but SMG has to make it financially worthwhile to WSU so they don’t have to pay a rental fee. Some advertiser will.
He wants games at Koch Arena. WSU vs KSU should happen there. Someday KU vs WSU at Koch Arena. I hope the coaching change without Turgeon makes that happen sooner.
KU should be generous because their football team won the Orange Bowl. WSU now, seems less comparable college to them. I hate that attitude at KU but its reality. They look down at WSU.
The downtown Arena is for WSU and KSU hosting small tournaments. WSU and KSU could be in the same tournament on opposite sides. Wichita business has to promote they kind of tournament so it’s possible. SMG has to rally local business advertising.
Some future events require more seats. I selfishly want the Arena to bid for the Big 12 Mens and Women’s basketball tournaments. After 2011, bid for the MVC Men’s tournament if they decide to try moving around from St. Louis.
We need 18,000 floor seats in the Arena to benefit our long term use. Bidding for Arena events to happen here demands our civic pride to keep improving the community.
With more seats, bidding for an annual KU game is theoretically possible. It’s about money and if the game is on TV. KU would host a home game in Wichita. Some in Lawrence get bent about that idea already. KU wouldn’t be going out of their way to play in Wichita. They pass by every season.
Scheduling a small tournament with KSU, WSU and two other colleges would be “exciting”. Depends who the other teams could be. That’s SMG’s job to sweeten reasons why teams would play in Wichita.
Why would WSU want to use the Idiot Irene, the real true name of the arena. They got Kook Krena. Big baskeball games wont come, the Irene is tooooooo smalllllllll.
Acts mentioned will not come unless someone bribes em good.
If u voted for Irene, u owe me a refund of several thousand dollars, and interest. Pay up.
Rumor has it the tax was not enough to build the Irene with the price increases. Say it aint so. Kolb could give back his 200k hush money, or bribe money.
Fight for the county employees to get a decent raise this year. Many county employees have not received a decent raise since 2002 AD.
Why be an idiot to disparage something you paid for and its going to represent the community.
If you lost the choice, the majority wanted it.
The Arena has too few seats, but its large enough for WSU and KSU to host “during season” tournaments there.
For post season college basketball events it needs more seats.
WSU has Koch, don’t disparage that Arena, for season games. KSU vs WSU is a season game. KU someday vs WSU would be a season game.
Why Bill Self won’t play in Wichita doesn’t make sense. KU could host a game in Wichita if the Arena had more seats.
Why be an idiot yourself and disparage someone who disagrees with you. Nice of you to dictate to me how I should think. Must be one of those Repukes I heard about. But it is okay for you to disparage other people and use similar terms. I am not the idiot since I did not vote for the waste.
————
If you lost the choice, the majority wanted it.
—————–
No, a small group wanted it, and they waited until an election they knew would draw few voters. How many times before this did the vote fail? Represent the community……… Good one, there, for a minute you had me believing you. With better design and almost double the seats, yes it would be a good representation of the city. Consider the cost of pushing it through and I am not talking only the 200+ million. Throw in the lack of a parking garage; according to reports, a decent CII event has a surplus of 400 parking spaces if there are no events in the area (Hyatt, Broadview, etc.) A good event at CII has a 200+ deficit of parking spaces, not including other events.
Have you been downtown when CII and the Hyatt are having a medium event? I have numerous times and you cant find parking in moderate walking distance. Wichitans dont like walking the short distances of the Coliseum, and those will be shorter in comparison.
The govies sold you a pig in a poke and you fell for it. We will, including you, be paying for this freak empty hole long past the tax ending. The consultant hired showed how it would be a money pit and you still voted for it. The consultant said it was too small and a bigger one would not draw that many big acts.
The threats of higher taxes convinced many to vote for it, only to find out their taxes went up anyway. Good news is we can use it for the homeless shelter and we can use it part of it to house the jail overflow.
The comparisons to other cities were misleading at best and outright lies at worst.
Dont expect postseason games there since it has too few seats. Why would he want to host a KU game in Wichita?
We are growing on this blog and we have invited another 100 people to join us and not all will, but enough will.
I agree! Start booking and filling it up! Prove the detractors wrong. If you build it they will come! But as for WSU vs KU…. you don’t REALLY think KU is scared to play the Shockers do you??? Nawwww
I don’t care WHO they book. I’d have to walk for blocks and then pass the cars parked at the door of the people who will have the best seats. Thanks no.
I will never attend an event at the arena.
Well, unless the event was free and the weather fair.
“He was concerned about losing concession money, paying a rental fee and potential parking issues. He wasn’t against the idea, but SMG has to make it financially worthwhile to WSU so they don’t have to pay a rental fee.”
AS I SAID – A BIG SUBSIDY! TAXPAYERS, PREPARE TP DIG DEEPER INTO YOUR WALLETS!
“He wants games at Koch Arena. WSU vs KSU should happen there. Someday KU vs WSU at Koch Arena.”
AGREED! SO WHY DO WE NEED THE ALBINO PACHYDERM?
“We need 18,000 floor seats in the Arena to benefit our long term use.”
THEN DO IT! YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE!
“Why be an idiot to disparage something you paid for and its going to represent the community.”
YOU JUST DISPARAGES IT BY SAYING IT IS TOO SMALL!
JANUARY 2010 – OK ARENA FOLKS, PROVE YOUR WORTH! IT IS YOUR JOB TO DO IT – GET TO WORK!
Lutz, I certainly think it would be fun however as a Wichitan I am not interested in exposing our new arena to a potential Shocker loss. That would suck. Certainly it could be a runner up but not the main event.
Mrage – on an earlier thread you admitted that you are selfish and want MY MONEY to spend for your toys. Thank you for that brief moment of candor. Now, go and make your Albino Pachyderm work. Produce all those ‘corporates’ you brag about knowing to pay these subsidies. Get them to underwrite your events and extra seats.
JUST KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF ANY MORE OF MY MONEY FOR YOUR ARENA!
Oh and before they break wind…er ground, a LAST appeal to sanity from a born and lifelong Wichitan who knows Wichita people.
Make the parking first come first served and the seats general admission.
If they don’t, I predict the arena will fail in shorter order than it took to get built.
Actually JR, there are some ways to deal with parking. I have developed some ideas using existing infrastructure. They are available to the Arena organization upon establishment of a professional relationship.
However, parking alone will not solve the Arena’s problems.
I got a few ideas too Ben. But what is the point?
The arena yayhoos aint about ideas. They’ve all the open mindedness of Larry the cable guy.
“Get ‘r dun!”
Why is WSU going to play a game downtown when they already have a perfectly good arena of their own?
WSU vs KU do we really want to embarrass WSU that bad, might as well have them play Friends or Newman the results would be the same.
Tom – my point exactly. Why would WSU, KU, or KSU prefer to play in Mrage’s Albino Pachyderm instead of their own “friendly confines”?
Years ago I suggested the idea of building an Arena that would serve BOTH the City/County AND WSU. That was BEFORE the Koch renovation. This is what has been done elsewhere – the Arenas have the University as an anchor tenant. Unfortunately such suggestions were rejected. So, now we have the Albino Pachyderm with nobody calling it home.
Mrage – the ball is in YOUR court. It is YOUR responsibility to fill YOUR Arena. DO IT!
Well in the case of bringing in big name opponents like a KU, it’s what can you do for me?
What kind of gate guarantee can WSU offer a KU or another Big 12 opponent that wouldn’t cut into their normal take at Koch (capacity 10,000)?
An 18,000 seat downtown arena/alternate site.
It’s the same reason the KU/MU football game has been moved to Arrowhead.
All about the Benjamins.
Mr. Kia – you are making two BIG assumptions:
1. There are 18,000 seats. There are not
2. They would sell out. Not at all clear.
Mrage has already noted that we would have to heavily subsidize it with Benjamins from MY pocket. I’m not a big fan of his idea. I haven’t seen him come up with the money nor sign on to my ideas of how he could raise it.
Joe Williams! never seemed to like those ideas either. Like Mrage, he likes spending out tax dollars.
Born here, raised here, still living here for more then 50 years, a genuine Wichita, Kansan citizen and not one time I have ever watch a WSU or KU game.
As matter of fact I have never been able to watch any kind of sport at all, for some reason watching sport puts me to sleep.
Wiseman,
Sad life being a Wichitan and not seeing WSU in the 60’s or 80’s basketball teams community excitement.
When WSU was at the Sweet 16 few years ago. KU playing for NCAA national Championships or losing to Bucknell in the first round. Thrilling basketball occasionally.
KU people surely enjoyed Miami at the Orange Bowl.
With college sports its fun to go on the road with those teams.
Politics is worse paying attention to than sports.
Play some sport, anything if possible, if watching makes you sleepy. Ping pong is a sport!
People should experience being in 70,000 folks at Chiefs stadium at least once in their life.
The World is watching Super Bowl and your doing what?
Ben,
Quit whining about your money. SMG is an entertainment marketing company that promotes events nationally and worldwide.
They don’t “bribe” to get events to play in their Arenas or stadiums.
The subsidy as you call it, is business to SMG called a promotion.
It’s not your tax money SMG uses anyway. County is paying their employees to manage the facility.
WSU is willing to play in the downtown Arena is the simple fact if SMG can make the promotion worthwhle. WSU won’t lessen any games at Koch Arena. They will add games to their schedule playing downtown.
I careless to know people wont go to the Arena. Its some badge of honor to not civic participate?
There is no distance downtown too long to walk getting to the Arena. People can always be dropped off at the door. Only the driver has to consider where to park.
I’ve had the privilege of helping pay to build this architectural monstrosity. Even though I’ll never be able to afford tickets to anything there, I have the satisfaction of subsidizing those who can. And I suppose I’ll get to pay to have it torn down when it goes broke. The only people who are benefiting from all this public largess are the developers and contractors.
You are weird Mrage, What makes you think that it is a sad thing?
It is a choice and a preference that I do not try to impose onto others.
“It’s not your tax money SMG uses anyway. County is paying their employees to manage the facility.”
Just where do you think the County gets the money? IT’S MY TAX MONEY YOU LIKE TO SELFISHLY SPEND ON YOURSELF!
“Its some badge of honor to not civic participate?”
I DO ‘civic participate’ Mrage; I have contributed money to projects that benefit the community. I have donated thousands of dollars of professional pro bono work for the City. Mrage, I have given infinitely more to this community than you have. All you want to do is TAKE – and you admitted it!
January 2010 Mrage. Let’s see the sellouts!
Mrage – Orange Bowl is in Miami. Sweet 16 games are all sorts of places. What does any of that have to do with the Albino Pachyderm? Those will NEVER be played in your Arena and you know that. So, I guess the best shot you have to offer is a heavily subsidized exhibition game.
Hey, maybe we can get a semi-pro team. We can call it the Nutcases!
The likely calendar:
Wichita Wings Old-Timers’ Day
World Curling Quarter-Finals
SouthCentral Kansas 4-H Club Square Dancing
The American Dairy Association’s Holstean Bull-Riding Championships
“No Country for Old Men — On Ice!”
“george bush: the musical!
Wiseman,
Weird? Sports are great to play. I don’t have to watch every game. I don’t buy “team gear”. I don’t paint my face for a sports team. I think its funny that people do.
I find enlightenment through exercise and playing some kind of physical sport.
I appreciate the years of practice beginning in high school for athletes until they get to professional sports. That’s what being a fan of sports is about. Cheering for the kids inside those athletes, because its a game afterall.
—-
Moneyhawk,
No Rodeo’s or bull riding in the downtown Arena. It’s not a dirt facility.
—–
Ben,
I worked for the County in the 80’s, thanks for paying me! I’m living large now on your money getting my Arena way!
Mrage – thanks again for admitting your selfish ‘gimee’ atitude. Good thing for you there are still some taxpayers like me to care for you.
Tell us Mrage – where does the County get the money to pay the costs of subsidizing an exhibition basketball game if not from me?
Only some good sports events will give this Arena any good use, concerts will be good also, but Wichita needs to do a turn around and show up for the big acts if they want them to keep coming.
Wiseman
Posted January 6, 2008 at 2:16 pm | Permalink
Born here, raised here, still living here for more then 50 years, a genuine Wichita, Kansan citizen and not one time I have ever watch a WSU or KU game.
As matter of fact I have never been able to watch any kind of sport at all, for some reason watching sport puts me to sleep.
Thats exactly why I watch Football games on t.v., they put me to sleep. Nothing like sitting in your easy chair on a Sunday after noon dozing off while the Cheifs are losing.
On the other hand, I can only watch a Shocker Basketball game once in awhile, it takes a lot of energy out of me, cheering for the Shockers.
Ben,
What exhibition game? WSU playing in the downtown Arena, those games will count.
County hired SMG. They contract with a variety of companies to do business with. It’s a shame your feeling financially hurt because the County does business. Their trying to use your money to make money.
If your hating Sedgwick County so much these days, there are other counties to live in, nearby. You fear taxes will be raised because the Arena will fail. Abandon ship so it doesn’t cost you more in the future.
Mrage are you on KPERS. I keep asking KPERS when they are going to fully fund the severely underfunded KPERS or if I will have to rely on welfare when I retire from the county. A year ago KPERS was 5 billion underfunded. KPERS refuses to answer my questions.
NH,
Nope, I didn’t work for the County long enough. I don’t know what people expect from KPERS. They haven’t done well investing some of that money.
I don’t trust my retirement will go well unless I save better. Social Security dies with my group when we reach retirement age. I was born in 66.
heh heh
Click on the picture so you can see better.
THERE’S your arena goers! Shadow people? Ghosts? And there isn’t even very many of them! I guess you could argue a haunted arena has some attendance.
And why the patio. This is WICHITA. That space should be for cars so people don’t have to walk more than 30 feet!
I make it about 40 ghosts at the arena. See how many you can find. Disturbingly, one of them seems to be an unattended little girl! Also, there are more than a few who are either hunchbacks or wearing backpacks? Call Homeland Security! There’s even one guy who seems to be arguing with no one in particular. Maybe it’s Joe Williams.
“Their trying to use your money to make money.”
Thats laughable — it will make money in that people will buy tickets —- but it will never be profitable or produce a positive ROI, without more input of taxpayers dollars
Mrage – now I see you stoop to the Joe Williams line “if you don’t like stupidity you should leave town” Coupled, of course, with yet another Mrage LIE: “your hating Sedgwick County so much these days” No Mrage, I don’t hate Sedgwick County like you do. I just hate seeing bad things happen to Sedgwick County.
As for “Abandon ship so it doesn’t cost you more in the future.” I prefer to stay and try to make this a better community – UNLIKE LEECHES LIKE YOU!
Mrage – you called me a liar when I insisted the Arena is 15,000 seats. You claimed it was 17,000 seats. Turns out that YOU were the liar and you acknowledged that I was telling the truth.
You called me a liar when I said that WSU would not play at your Arena without a large subsidy. You now admit I am telling the truth but claim that somehow the subsidy will be paid by the tooth fairy. Well, Mrage, I seem to be the one who has been correct all along; you call me liar only to later admit it was the other way around.
So, Mrage, just WHO is going to provide the subsidy for a WSU game? The same corporates who are paying to expnad your Arena to 18,000 seats?
Ben,
We have equal opinions, you believe taxpayers will subsidize WSU to play in the Arena without evidence.
I say SMG will have advertisers pay for a WSU promotion to happen in the Arena. That’s their job.
SMG hasn’t hired the key person to run our arena yet. They also are managing Century II, so you better believe they have ability to do that.
Your a supporter of Sedgwick County but hate the Arena their constructing. You misname the Arena to show your complete distaste.
I wish you would lie to strangers saying that’s a great thing we’re building in Wichita. We needed a new Arena, that’s the truth.
You can’t say that. You’ll tell strangers how you hate the Arena, because Sedgwick County created fraud at the original vote.
I don’t how you promote Sedgwick County to other people.
The Arena isn’t a bad thing that’s happening to this community.
Continuing to make light of those TRYING to pitch this dog…
How many cars do you see?
I see 1. I guess the ghosts don’t take up a lot of space. And is that a station wagon? Are they coming back in 2009?
I have to ask. Just how big are the asses of some of you bloggers. You peeps are on here 7 days a week….all damn day.
If you are paralyzed, forgive me.
why don’t you meet for coffee instead of dominating the damn blogs. Or, get a job.
“I wish you would lie to strangers”
Sorry Mrage, I prefer TRUTH. You are the one who likes fiction.
Sam – “Or, get a job.”
I HAVE a job. About 50 hrs/week. Plus some extra on the side just to keep me sharp.
Mrage – January 2010 will tell about WSU. Just like time finally forced you to admit the TRUTH about my 15,000 instead of your LIE. I guess you wantedme to lia about that too?
Sam,
How would a paralyzed type?
Many bloggers have access to computers at home, at work, from their phone.
I was up late last night and this Sunday afternoon, I’ve had time to post. I got plenty done this afternoon taking down all the Christmas decorations. I had hours outside, it was a wonderful day.
Are you new here, making a statement like that? This is Arena conversation and your observation isn’t required on anything else.
I don’t care when people post or question what their life is like.
I’ve met some of the bloggers and a couple I don’t really want to meet again.
Ben
WSU could schedule a game in the Arena before 2010. We’ll know many months before when WSU will play in the Arena.
I don’t think a college basketball game will be the opening event.
“We have equal opinions, you believe taxpayers will subsidize WSU to play in the Arena without evidence.”
Just like I believed it was 15,000 seats “without evidence.” How many seats Mrage?
Just like I believed that WSU would not play there without a subsidy. Well, Mrage, you have now stated the same thing.
So, I believe the subsidy will come from the taxpayers. You seem to believe that it will come from the tooth fairy. Sorry Mrage, I don’t believe in the tooth fairy. Just like I don’t believe in your 17,000 seats (remember?). Or in WSU without subsidy. So far, Mrage, I have been pretty accurate, even though you “wish I would lie” about your Arena.
“I don’t think a college basketball game will be the opening event.”
On this we agree. My guess is it will be that country singer who does the Ford commercials.
Ben,
Just like I said to Jwink, what’s the point of arguing things wrong in the Arena.
Events that won’t happen according to you are meaningless. Let’s let SMG do their job. Because you call it a subsidy, SMG calls it their business.
SMG is not a tooth fairy but your doubting their business ability.
KU had to be subsidized to play in Kemper Arena? To play in the Sprint Center? It’s just the cost of doing business between facilities and the colleges. Are KC taxpayers being ripped off?
Some team got $60,000 to play WSU at Koch, is that subsidy to you. It’s just business.
Ben,
Trace Atkin’s, that guy who sings the Ford commercials, I hope not.
Some of those country women singers, maybe. Martina McBride has a local following. Some Idol singers.
It could be some country group because that music has fans here.
Mrage – it depends on where the money comes from. Why would SMG spend money to subsidize a game? They will NOT do that with their money; they will do it based on some other money source. You say it will come from those corporates you said would pay to increase the seating to 18,000 seats. I find that about as doubtful as I find the 18,000.
Why raise it now? So when it ‘hits the fan’ you cannot say “nobody anticipated it”. Just like when I argued the seating capacity with you. Maybe by admitting the truth you might have considered fixing it. You didn’t. And why look at what’s wrong with it? Who knows, maybe they can be fixed BEFORE it is built. YOU have said it is too small; you claimed you would get your corporates to pay to increase that to 18,000.
Sprint Center has enough seating capacity and they sell out. THAT is how they pay for it.
“Let’s let SMG do their job.” Sure, let them. But also let them know at least some of us are watching. And, at least one of us will call them on it if they don’t perform as advertised.
I intend to be in a position to remind SMG that I am their boss.
Mrage
Posted January 6, 2008 at 10:11 pm | Permalink
Sam,
How would a paralyzed type?
Voice activated computer, eye movement computer
Sam not first to note.
pk,
It’s poor manners to come into a blog new and assume what lives others are leading.
I’m guessing none are paralyzed who post here.
I can blog and work out, staying in shape.
—
Ben,
You do that, be the boss of local SMG, want that job, you got it. There will be plenty of financial documents they create. Make sure they aren’t spending your money foolishly.
Did you download the PDF agreement between County and SMG?
I never wanted THAT job. But I have it. I’d happily give it totally to you.
As for their spending my money foolishly there is, unfortunately, little I can do about it except attempt to keep it in the public spotlight. So far it is not SMG with the mammoth cost overruns.
Internet eat super long message. Short version, poor manners to attack people. I comment on facts. Do you see how much others and you post, how long you stay on? Fact not fantasy. Your life or lack of life is your business. You fight my right to talk, mighty generous you are. I no fight your talking right. Funny how some bloggies prop selves up with fake ids and blame others of fake ids.
SC web show fifteen thousand seat. We must support needs before wants, SC/Wic needs not met, they blame others for their shortsightedness to meet needs.
Night all, sleep well.
Why does it have to be some stoopud sports event? How about a Presidential debate? Oh yeah, mrage says that politics are unimportant, never mind.
Let’s keep the dumb dumber, let’s give them bread and circuses baby.
I wonder where they placed the black hole to shovel the money into . . .
Do you really think WSU could stay competitive with Kansas??
There will be no Presidential debates in 2010, opening days of the Arena. 2012 sure, if Presidential candidates find reasons to debate and look for votes here!
Will Obama come to Wichita and give a speech, talking about his mother, she was born here. He might do it after becoming the Democrats nominee.
Republicans for President don’t have a reason to come here looking for votes.
The Arena could have local political debates. Doubtful it would sell out.
Can WSU be competitive with KU? They just beat Boston College by 25, what would be the difference.
WSU vs KU every other year. Every couple of years, long as they play each other is the thing.
WSU vs KSU the same way.
WSU wants to play those teams at Koch.
When downtown Arena is open, WSU and KSU could host a small tournament together with a chance to play each other at the end.
“WSU wants to play those teams at Koch.”
That is what I have been saying all along. Why would WSU want to play in your Albino Pachyderm?
I think the debate suggestion was facetious.
So, looks like the Ford commercial after all …
“…2008 should see some planning for how to blow the roof off the downtown arena …”
Well we could literally DO that. Blow the thing up I mean. That WOULD draw a crowd…
How about we place bullet-proof glass around the Arena floor. Then allow Wichita’s street gangs to fight it out for supremacy. Offer 100% immunity for any ‘crimes’ committed during the melees.
Ben,
Jim Schaus said WSU will play in the Arena if the right promotion was provided to them. WSU can’t host a tournament at Koch.
What WSU wants from KU, KU might not want to play at Koch ever. Because the Arena has more seats, maybe KU could play WSU downtown. That’s SMG’s job to make it happen.
Maybe …
“if the right promotion … ”
In other words – SUBSIDY!
Where are you going to get the money? From all those ‘corporates’ who are making it 18,000 seats?
Ben,
Answer my question, did WSU subsidize $60,000 so a team would play at Koch.
The Big 12 doesn’t pay each other when they play conference games. I’m sure the MVC is the same ways. Out of conference games, those teams are paid a fee to play in Koch or Allen Field House.
Is that subsidy or a business transaction?
SMG makes a business transaction when they put on events. Where do they get that money, ask them! I believe it comes from advertisers.
I don’t know how they share gate receipts at Koch. That doesn’t change the fact that Schaus has said he is concerned with the costs of playing at your Arena and will require a subsidy.
How will SMG cover the costs of hosting WSU without charging them rent? Who will pony up the money?
Gladiator might just have the best idea yet!
“Then allow Wichita’s street gangs to fight it out for supremacy. ”
Make it pay for view and charge the gangs fees to cover burials and blood removal.
This seems to be the best idea yet for the Arena. Come on Mrage, get on board! Haven’t seen any ideas from anyone else that don’t require additional subsidy.
The gun manufacturers could sponsor them – Survivor – The Mean Streets. With REAL blood!
what did you say about the new york gaints they didn’t have a chance