WE Blog

Renowned agricultural scientist Dr. Norman Borlaug, known as the father of the “Green Revolution” for saving over a billion people from starvation by utilizing pioneering high yield farming techniques, is one of only five people in history who has been awarded a Nobel Peace Prize, the Presidential Medal of Freedom ,and the Congressional Gold Medal. Borlaug also declared himself skeptical of man-made climate fears in 2007. “I do believe we are in a period where, no question, the temperatures are going up. But is this a part of another one of those (natural) cycles that have brought on glaciers and caused melting of glaciers?” Borlaug asked, according to a September 21, 2007 article in Saint Paul Pioneer Press. The article reported that Borlaug is “not sure, and he doesn’t think the science is, either.” Borlaug added, “How much would we have to cut back to take the increasing carbon dioxide and methane production to a level so that it’s not a driving force?” We don’t even know how much.”

http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070926/COMMENTARY/109260012/1012

Last week one of my older sisters joined the army as a nurse. At the tender age of 47. Headed down to Fort Sam Houston last weekend.

She called yesterday to chat. Turns out there are many there who are older than her. Said the average age for nurses joining is over 45. I found that surprising.

It’s not boot camp but it sounds like they still put them through a pretty good physical training program. I was a little surprised at some of the stuff she’s going to be going through, like night time navigation, convoy command.

I wasn’t’ surprised that they put them through some weapons training but they don’t have to “qualify” although she’s going to try to.

After training she’s headed to West Point for a time but it sounds like since she’s an experienced nurse her likelihood of being deployed overseas is fairly high.

Said she gets goose bumps seeing that Flag over the PT grounds at 5:00 am. I’m damn proud of her. Dad talked her out of joinging the Army after high school, but she never stopped thinking about it. Her oldest daughter just turned 21 so she said Hell, I’m going.

Good for her! I’m sure she’ll be a great asset and contribute a lot to her country.

The British press (The Guradian) reports that the English voice transmissions heard by the Navy about Iranians going to explode or be aggressive their vessels was in fact a ham radio operator named “Philipino Monkey” who has been intercepting/broadcasting/interfering with radio traffic for years in the Persian Gulf and senior Navy officials now admit the source of the Iranian “threats” is a mystery. Other Naval officers say that weird comments are often overhead that are abusive, insulting or threatening but just laugh it off figuring it is “Philipino Monkey” up to his old tricks. Wow.

Heckler good on her! And may our boys and girls only meet up with her at the PX.

“Year 2007″ at jibjab.com Funny stuff!

I loved it when the GOP candidates ran over the baby chewing on poison toys!

HA Ha ha

Conservative ranter Neal Boortz is in a positive MELTDOWN!

“Boo hoo! Democrats are gonna win and take my money!” “Wahhhhhh nobody understands that freedom means freedom to starve!”

Vile self righteous goon. I love to hear a grown goon cry!

JR, JR, JR – Why is it so important to you to get other peoples money. Earn some of your own. Spend the time you now spend on this blog and get a job. I was in four different businesses last Thursday with help wanted signs up.

No communist government has existed long time unless the citizens were basically imprisioned in their own homes as in Cuba. You need to look at the levels of poverty there to see if this is how you want to live. It’s not for me.

Oh well it is a beautiful sunny day and I intend to enjoy it while I still can.

Heckler I applaud your sis. She is one of my heros.

You should quit listening to hate radio in the morning J R. It seems to be making you bitter.

“Good Options Can Mask Bad Choices”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/13/AR2008011302367.html?hpid=topnews

The powers that be are working hard to make our country a “bedroom”/”service” community.
“Bedrooms” filled with fat,docile drones with “service” provided by illegals.
When China decides to take us over we will on longer know how to nor have the physicalities reqired to resist their takeover.

AW, agreed, that sensless war spending is ruining our country.

Phantom,
The war is part of it. But not 9 trillion dollars worth. Something more than the war has to change.

Return tax levels to the pre Kennedy days.

The right always wants to wax romantic about the 50’s. Let’s go back THERE for tax policy.

We live in a country with 9 trillion dollars of national debt, 7.5 Trillion of it can be directly attributed to President Johnson’s failed “war on Poverty”.

We also have almost 50 trillion dollars of unfunded mandates that can be directly attributed to liberal feel good programs to buy votes. And now they want to take over the health care system.

But protecting the country from radical Islam is to blame?

Nitwits

Climatic changes appear to be destabilizing vast ice sheets of western Antarctica that had previously seemed relatively protected from global warming, researchers reported yesterday, raising the prospect of faster sea-level rise than current estimates.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/13/AR2008011302753.html?hpid=topnews

I know, It’s just that damn Algore messing with the numbers again to make all that ice melt. Antartica would be safe if all you Libs would just shut up about global warming!

Hank Price
Posted January 14, 2008 at 11:26 am | Permalink
We live in a country with 9 trillion dollars of national debt, 7.5 Trillion of it can be directly attributed to President Johnson’s failed “war on Poverty”.

No it can’t, Hank. Not unless you use conservative newmath.

By the way, good morning!

The right always wants to wax romantic about the 50’s. Let’s go back THERE for tax policy.
-J R

Are you getting apoplectic about lowering our taxes, J R? If Boortz is approaching apoplexy for seeing tax hikes on the horizon, what are you for wanting them lowered?

Hank,

I agree with your point on social programs/radical islam.

But do you have a link to your “7.5 Trillion of it can be directly attributed to President Johnson’s failed “war on Poverty”” comment?

I have a link to the US Treasury showing the growing national debt all the way back to 1960. It reflects the national debt continually growing (regardless of which party was in power congress/white house).

But how do I take it step further to document what “caused” the debt increases? If was by overspending – but how do you know WHICH appropriation during EACH and every period?

Regardless, if the 7.5 can be attributed to social programs (and not wars, NASA, interstates, education, etc….), then the appropriate response by each of the adminstrations/congress should have been to increase taxes – or cut something.

You can’t blame one administration almost fifty years ago for todays deficit spending.

Mr. Price, of the National Debt of $9.0 trillion, 75% was generated under the last three Republican presidents, all with veto power over spending.

Of the $39.0 trillion in unfunded mandates, most is SS or Medicaid, not Johnson’s War on Poverty.

Sorry, those are the facts.

Steven if you don’t know the answer to the question, how can you make such a proposal?

You don’t know:

1. How much revenue will result from ending the tax cuts.

2. Whom you would take it from.

I will have to classify your proposal as just another attack at the rich, without merit.

Max,

They tried that in a place called the Soviet Union.
Didn’t work then.

So many haters of the rich. JR doesn’t seem to get that poor people don’t create jobs. I feel downright horrible that our companies has employees. I will put an apology in their next paychecks with a pink slip and tell them they have JR to thank. I bet they will all be on your doorstep to thank you personally.

Are all democrats so obtuse that they think the rich are decadents who deserve to be overtaxed. I am by no means rich but think that those who made their money deserve to keep it and not pay for a socialist health care system or pay so some lazy wannabetakencareofs can lay around and be taken care of.

I really don’t think that most democrats have these feelings. I just think that we get more than our share on this blog.

Wow Max you just made me a better conservative than you!

Uh, thanks?

I think as a society we should do more for each other instead of working to personal fortune and excess. This is much as some of our ancestors did.

Oh and Max? I buy everything except food and some of my kids clothes used. So I practice what I preach as to not using mostly non American made products.

And REMEMBER Max. Al Gore led the initiative to bring us access to the government built internet.

Just for once, I would like the conservative Republicans to explain how they plan on paying down the National Debt and actually funding SS – I have yet to get any sort of comprehensive answer.

Trickle down economics have never worked – neither Reagan or the Bushes were able to balance the budget with tax cuts.

As I calculated for Max a few days ago, even with a $200 billion budget surplus (which has only happened once in the last 40 years) it would take 510 years to pay off the debt and fund the mandates.

As Max pointed out – however missing my point – it would “only” take 45 years to pay off the debt with a $200 billion annual surplus.

And by the way, even the most extremely optomistic projections do not balance the budget until 2012.

So, conservative – anti-tax folks, how do you plan to pay down the National Debt?

1. How does anybody here know what JR makes??

2. How does anybody here know where JR works??

3. How does anybody here know if JR gets any kind
of welfare benefits?

Chas, JR has told us many things on this blog. PAY ATTENTION!

Oh and JR, I’m going out to lunch with my boss. It’ll be a long lunch. My boss is taking out all managers for lunch and paying for it too!

Mean Man I work for!

Getting a paycheck, great benefits, and bonus from the Boss too!

And my employees, get a good paycheck, great benefits, and incentives too!

Mean corporations though.

Gotta go EAT!!!

Ksgrm,

“So many haters of the rich.”

That’s why I was hoping Steven could answer my question. Actually, it should have been his question before making a proposal which would hurt millions of Americans.

Over 100 million Americans are invested in over 8,300 mutual funds. That number is from 2003, so it is probably significantly higher now.

Over half of American households own equity/stocks/mutual funds, if you include their employer sponsored programs.

That being the case, if they repeal the Bush tax breaks, it will “hurt” significant numbers of Americans (gains on the sale of equities).

I don’t believe half of Americans are “rich”, and I doubt that even 100 million would think themselves “rich”.

So to blindly propose removal of the tax breaks, without knowing the numbers affected (who are rich), nor the revenue such action would produce -
is not rational.

Like I said I have to go.

Thank you once again Max for always helping me make my point.

It is precisely the greed of folks like you who drove all those jobs overseas so you could have your shiny red corvette. Get Jose to wash and wax it for you. I’ve other things to do today.

AMway you are so right about that. What many don’t look at is that many small businesses are S-Corporations. They are taxed as individuals. They pay high taxes already. Raising their tax burden will result in layoffs as the owners can no longer afford to furnish jobs but will be back in the job market looking for a job working ‘for the man’.

The lack of thought behind some comments here is very telling.

Okay, AW, how about increasing the rate on households making over $250K a year. In reducing corporate tax breaks, would have to research that area more to make specific recommendations.

In fact, if the following is correct:

“In the midst of the tax fairness crisis, there is an easy initiative for the Democrats: press Congress to give the IRS an adequate budget, skilled staff, and the authority to go after the tax evasions and tax avoidance schemes of the global corporations and the super-affluent classes. They need go no further than the rationale given and documented by Johnston: ‘Our tax system is being used to create a nation with fewer stable jobs and less secure retirement income. The tax system is being used by the rich, through their allies in Congress, to shift risks off themselves and onto everyone else. And perhaps worst of all, our tax system now forces most Americans to subsidize the lifestyles of the very rich, who enjoy the benefits of our democracy without paying their fair share of its price.’”
(from this source: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1010-09.htm) … I am not sure we even can know, at this time, what all needs to be corrected and implemented. I think it would be disingenuous to dismiss my points based on the fact that we don’t know the data needed to decide what to do. Maybe you have sources others of us don’t.

What are your proposals? And do you have thoughts about what’s referred to as “corporate welfare”?

Right Max,

We live in an age that not one human has all the knowledge required to make a #2 pencil from scratch. Not one.

Corporations are people. They employ people, provide needed products and services for people and are owned by people.

Tax a corporation and it’s people throughout the system that pay. When you tax GM, ‘GM’ doesn’t pay. You cause layoffs of real people. You cause stockholders to lose money. You cause the price of a GMC Gentleman Jim Four Wheel Drive Pick up to go up in price.

Liberal democrat tax policies are driving corporations overseas and then they blame it on Bush. Incredible.

Ksgrm,

“Raising their tax burden will result in layoffs as the owners can no longer afford to furnish jobs but will be back in the job market looking for a job working ‘for the man’.”

And since higher minimum wage has kicked in, I wonder how many small employers have stopped hiring new workers – and laid some off?

“Liberal democrat tax policies are driving corporations overseas and then they blame it on Bush. Incredible.”

So, Mr.Price, I have no takers from the Right as to how to pay down the Debt and fund the mandates. Do you have some answers that don’t include a slap at Democrats?

The issue is a bipartisan issue that affects all Americans.

Remember, the interest alone on the Debt consumes around 35% of Federal revenues. We are rapidly approaching a point where massive tax INCREASES will be require for us to meet our obligations.

So, how do you folks plan on addressing the issue?

If the answer is spending cuts, please give some details as to which programs you would cut and how much that would save.

Steven,

I did not intend for you consider my comments disingenuous. I was just being candid in my response because you proposed a solution without any factual basis. The only conclusion I could therefore take from your post was that you are “quick” to single out a group of Americans (unknown in size by you)whom you believe should “pay for America”.

My concern was there are a few of the taxes which expire in 2011 – which will affect ME, and many people LIKE ME. And I am certainly NOT rich.

I didn’t really want to go here, but the rich are already paying a lot of money. It is reasonable for them to not like seeing their taxes increased – so Obama and Hillary can “HAND OUT” more to poor people (which will not resolve the initial debt issue we were discussing).

According to NCPA:

“According to data from the IRS, the bottom 50 percent of income earners pay approximately 4 percent of income taxes.

The top 25 percent of income earners pay nearly 83 percent of the income tax burden, and

the top 10 percent pay 65 percent.

The top 1 percent of income earners pay almost 35 percent of all income taxes.

The top 400 richest Americans paid 1.58 of total income taxes in 2000.”

So how much is enough?
How much before you will agree to cut spending somwehere? (Because even with 250K earners you don’t have “enough”).
How much before people realize there really is NOT a money tree in Washington, ripe for the plucking?

I mentioned earmarks, and I’d agree with you on corporate welfare. Max made a suggestion that in the farm bill they cut farm aid to those with incomes above 250K. That would be a real start. But congress couldn’t even do that!

I’d end the EIC program completely. That is strictly a redistribution of wealth. Instead, take the revenue derived from ending the EIC, and using it to help those who truly need it (I’d give it back to the people it was stolen from, but crazy left would not tolerate that – I’d be labeled “crazy”.)

I’m willing to compromise. But as I’m opening my wallet to pull out more, I see the line getting longer to take even more(obama/hillary campaign promises).

That is not rational spending.

Earmark spending as you have described has gone down under the Democratic Congress over the previous all time records set by the last Republican controlled Congress, but it is not enough.

That having been said, earmarks, while high profile, are only a small portion of the Federal budget.

Eliminating $20 billion in earmarks would be a good start, but would hardly make a dent in a $9.0 trillion National Debt.

Eliminating foreign aid would only reduce spending by $12 billion a year – hardly another dent.

Ending the War on Iraq would reducing spending by $250 billion a year – that would be a start.

Reducing or eliminating foreign military bases would reducing spending by another $100 billion – another start.

Having South Korea, Germany and Japan pay for their own defense would also reduce the indebtedness – another start.

Regardless, we have to start now and realistically slash spending and address the tax issue.

Annie I think you have a misconception of how many companies hire illegals. We have about 38 employees, most long term and not one is an illegal. We always get W-9 information on each new hire. If they don’t have credible ID we don’t hire them.

Industrial growth is what I was referring to. Companies are expanding and building. We don’t work with the housing industry. It is an abomination. Greed by a few have created an industry that never should have happened. All of this said the growth in industry is real growth with sustainable job growth. We are a nation of consumers and American industries need to learn to meet those needs.

Upthread I saw something about unions being disbanded and this was hurting our economy – I don’t agree. When unions were started they were a good thing. Conditions were atrocious, pay was much to low and unions helped to correct this.

Now they have become a tool of money men who live like kings on the back of the ‘man’. Look at the big Union men, see their lifestyles, look at the ties to the mafia and then ask yourself who benefits most from unions?

Wages have been inflated beyond what the market will bare. When union rates go up then inflation in the market is the result. It is a neverending circle. There is a reason why union membership is at an all time low. Can’t blame it all on union however. We as a nation will have to tighten our own belts. Stop thinking we deserve all of those things our credit rating will allow us to have.

We are a great country with even greater people who won’t survive if we vote in those people who think our only chance at survival is to tax the rich and give to the needy.

Annie, you better ask your question again… I dont think KsGrm understood it…

A union is merely a group of people working under a contract. A contract spells out what is expected from both parties. With globalization unions have little pull in America in areas other than government.

Would you buy a house without a contract? Why work without one?

Inflation is a monetary policy aberation not attributed directly to labor.

What types of enterprises are you involved in Grim? A general category would be interesting to hear about.

Damn I hate when I out conservative the “conservatives”.

Shaking my head…

Some of the poster here illustrate why I left the GOP around 1986.

They are the party of “I got mine.”

They are the party of “I want my corvette.”

They are the party of money and everything else running UP hill.

All this and a good big dose of “you deserve it!” to anyone with less.

Sigh….

America was built mostly by people helping each other “get theirs”.

And until the GOP learns that lessen they will only get smaller. That is IF the don’t march us into that which they themselves most fear.

Tyranny. Only it won’t be big bad government they will answer to. It will be the boys in the boardroom. And they can’t vote them out.

I just hope they run outta gas before they get where they don’t want to be…

Hank Price posted January 14, 2008 at 6:36 am

At Moony Times link,
Timothy Ball/ Tom Harris: “Then, starting in 1998, the world began to cool while atmospheric CO2 continued to rise in complete contradiction to the theory.”

Dear Hank,

Are you unable to understand that a record El Nino event in 1998 caused a large, natural (temporary) warm spike in 1998?

Human-added GHG’s are still causing warming.

2005 was warmer than 1998. 2007 tied with 1998, for 2nd place.

Look at the graphs,
‘Dead Heat’
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/dead-heat/

‘Hit You Where You Live’
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/hit-you-where-you-live/
“For NH land, the three hottest years on record are the last three years: 2007, 2005, and 2006, and last year (2007) was the hottest.”

Tariffs.

That is what the Founding Father meant to fund the government too.

Eh? dropped an “s” there. I did not mean to imply there was one Founder.

I’m familiar with it.

It also has little to do with what I meant.

JM–

How’s the lawsuit coming along?

Just wondering,

Grim,
They are called tariffs if we don’t take care of our own who will?
Jibjab says it better than me:

http://www.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart

CJOnline – Health, government, schools are top Topeka employers
Goodyear employees leave work during a 3 p.m. shift change at the plant …. The average wage is $18.50 per hour. Starting wage is more than $16 per hour. …
http://www.cjonline.com/stories/010608/bus_231932223.shtml – 47k – Cached – Similar page

Not all that much per hour for a tough job

Ah, cosmos,

You continue to miss the point. Many of the IPCC scientists are not climatologists. Many of the IPCC scientists that are included in the ‘concensus’ have had second thoughts and no longer wish to back the IPCC report.

How many scientists have I brought to the BLOG now, 20? Until you bring some of your IPCC scientists to the BLOG with their credentials and their contribution to the IPCC ‘consensus’, I win-you lose. 20 to nothing. You got nothing.

“According to data from the IRS, the bottom 50 percent of income earners pay approximately 4 percent of income taxes.

The top 25 percent of income earners pay nearly 83 percent of the income tax burden, and

the top 10 percent pay 65 percent.

The top 1 percent of income earners pay almost 35 percent of all income taxes.

The top 400 richest Americans paid 1.58 of total income taxes in 2000.”

So how much is enough?

******

It NEVER FAILS.

No matter how often it is shot down, it just keeps recurring, like a cancerous tumor, immortal.

Read this and think about it for once:

Income taxes are taxes on income. The only way the rich could reduce the amount of income tax they pay is if they reduce the amount of income they make.

Duh.

It has long been established, and I don’t have time to post the links right now, that the poor pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than the rich do.

Remember Warren Buffett and his secretary?

How long do the poor need to keep subsidizing the rich?

Speaking of rich whiners. Often I hear the filthy rich Republicans whining about how expensive Social Security is. Social Security, which has been the most successful government program and has reduced poverty among millions of people is a tax that is not paid by rich people. After making $90,000 no more tax has to be paid on it yet the rich whine and insist that we ought to do away with the program, probably because it lifts up so many people out of poverty.

The rich have been working off the backs of the poor in this country for over 200 years. It’s the working people who build the roads, the railroads, the buildings, the sewer lines, grow the food, process the fuel, fight the wars, put out the fires, etc all the while the rich collect their dividends from their investments. We have been subsidizing their existence for quite some time.

Yeah. Screw the evil rich. What are they good for!? Besides jobs, that is.

Annie, I dont think that KsGrm is going to answer your question as to what jobs the rich provide… Guess we need to find our own links… but I cant find any!! LOL

Does anybody know what kind of “comment spam” is being protected by SpamBam??

I just realized — SOB is almost BOSS spelled backwards… Hmmmmm….

I too wonder about such spam. I also wonder about those evil bosses. Perhaps there should be no bosses either! No evil rich and no evil bosses.

It takes both and I never said anything against employees or customers. Some people think that rich=evil and boss=evil. They are wrong.

Sorry Chas, I meant that the WWW guy meant Sob’s definition of rich.

“Bosses aren’t needed.” Ok, that should work fine. Let anarchy loose.

Ok….so no owners are needed either?

SOB, it isnt possible to have a discussion with you here… go play with your flaming matches somewhere else, huh??

JR, you should support Edwards.

You sound just like him. Completely Irrational, almost Hysterical even!

Beat up on those evil corporations and PUNISH them!

What will you do with all the people who used to work for these corporations?

Are you self employed doug?

ooops — word is * division * NOT diision LOL

Read this and think about it for once:

Income taxes are taxes on income. The only way the rich could reduce the amount of income tax they pay is if they reduce the amount of income they make.

Duh.
Capn

—————————————————————————————————-

Income is something you EARN by WORKING.

The only way you can get more Income, is to work harder and/or smarter for it!

Or, be a Socialist Beggar and hold your hand out.

I’m trying to find a new job with a boss-less and owner-less company. So far, no luck dangit.

I know plenty of people who work DAMN hard and they aint rich.

I know of any number of people who “do” almost nothing and are very well off.

Ummm Max?? How about the millions who EARN from their investments?? Their income tax is based on their investment holdings… not on the basis of WORK as you are alluding to…

Sweet delicious capital gains.

It is quite simple… Those who earn MORE income, naturally, pay a higher amount of Income Tax… BUT — Their Amount of taxes might not be as much of a Percentage of their Income, as a lower income tax payer… It’s a percentage thing, Max…

And hey, you can look up the percentage thing in the “rate” section of your last IRS 1040 Tax Book from last year Max!!

Another thing I have noticed… Many times, the very wealthy can deduct more in deductions than many of the lower income tax payers even make!!

And I am not saying the wealthy arent entitled to their incomes…. Just that lower income tax payers are impacted by that percentage of income thing, when it comes to the bottom line!!

I got an uncle who works at the sewer plant. I guess you could call him a shit supervisor.

Someone owns a business. Bought it or built it. Said person hires employees. Employees now have jobs.

The ‘wealthy’ creating jobs? Go figure. I didn’t even have to use the google for that one.

Ummm That should read *shift* supervisor

Here sol you might might to check this guy out he did not start out rich his name is Warren Buffet

Accomplishments

* Started his first investment partnership, Buffett Associates Ltd., in 1956. As general partner he contributed $100, and had seven limited partners who contributed $105,000. Over the next 13 years he achieved 30% year-over-year gains, compared to ~10% for the general market. Buffett’s investment strategies focused on finding undervalued companies and purchasing significant holdings large enough to effect change in the companies.
* Continually adding on new investment partners, Buffett merged all his parnerships into Buffet Partnerships, Ltd and moved the operations to New York. Buffett found a textile manufacturing firm, Berkshire Hathaway, and aggressively purchased every available share to gain a controlling stake.
* Buffett liquidated his other investments except for Berkshire Hathaway, where he used the small textile profits to transform the company into a holding company focusing on insurance and banking. By 1970, textile profits were $45,000, while insurance and banking brought in $4.7 million.Â
* Through savvy investment and management decisions, Buffett has grown the share price of Berkshire Hathaway from $8/share in 1962 to $91,600/share today. Berkshire stands as one of only seven companies to have Moody’s Aaa credit rating, the highest possible.
* Known as the “Oracle of Omaha”, Buffett’s annual reports and shareholder meetings are followed and analyzed with a near-religious fervor.

SOB — it was a typo you idiot!! Geez!!

Chas, I was joking! Lighten up francis.

This explains a lot about this blog:

http://www.forbes.com/2006/02/11/monkey-economics-money_cz_df_money06_0214monkeys.html

Money
Primate Economics
Daniel Fisher, 02.14.06, 12:00 PM ET

New York – It’s one of the enduring mysteries of economics: Why do people refuse to act the way economists predict they should?

Why do they drive three miles to save a penny per gallon on gas? Why do they sometimes refuse a bargain that gives them something instead of nothing at all? Why do they avoid low price-to-book-value stocks, even though the returns on them are higher than flashy technology stocks?

A growing body of research into monkey behavior is starting to provide some answers. If we assume monkeys and humans share the same basic mental programming–an assumption some economists refuse to accept–then looking at how monkeys cooperate with each other and consume scarce resources might show certain patterns that are common to all primates.

Sorry Chas, I can’t preview and make corrections any more.

I posted IRS stats from 2004 showing:

The Top 1%, 5%, 10%, 25%, 50%, and bottom 50% of wage earners and what their percentage share was of total individual income taxes.

The Top 1% paid 35.73% of total income taxes. (Their income share was only 19.65% of total income, but they paid 35.73% of the total tax!)

The Bottom 50% paid 3.4% of total individual income taxes. (Bottom being <$29,899/yr)

I pay more income tax Chas because I earn more.

Perhaps we need a tax system where everybody ends up with the same amount of net income regardless of their gross income.

My Hypothetical just shows that my income after taxes takes a lot harder hit than your income after taxes (disposable income, that is)

Monkey Investing:

http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/12/18/the-random-walk-guide-to-investing-ten-rules-for-financial-success/

In 1973, Burton Malkiel published A Random Walk Down Wall Street, in which he argued that a blindfolded monkey could pick stocks as well as a professional investor.

Perhaps we need an employment system where everybody is paid the same regardless of what they do.

Wanted: Doctor or ditch digger wanted for $30k/year job. Education? It doesn’t matter. Experience? Irrelevant. Qualification? Who cares.

SOB
Posted January 14, 2008 at 3:45 pm | Permalink
Perhaps we need an employment system where everybody is paid the same regardless of what they do.

Wanted: Doctor or ditch digger wanted for $30k/year job. Education? It doesn’t matter. Experience? Irrelevant. Qualification? Who cares.
—————————————————————————————————-

You just described Communism. I know a medical doctor in Eastern Europe, practiced medicine for 40 years, then taught medicine. He made the same as the janitor and lived in the same block.

That’s what the Socialist Democrats want in the USA.

Max, I KNEW that his idea sounded familiar.

NO MAX What SOB describes might be true in a Communist country… Doctors and ditch diggers in England (Socialist Democrats) do not earn the same incomes… That is just a flat out LIE… and whats more, you KNOW it is a LIE, but you keep on repeating it!!

WHY do you do that??

Chas your lack of grasp of facts never ceases to amaze me. If I make more money I pay more taxes. If I have better qualifications than a ditch digger should I get paid more money? If not does my education count for nothing except to augment the wages of the ditch digger. Why couldn’t he get his own education so he could make the big money like me?

“Another thing I have noticed… Many times, the very wealthy can deduct more in deductions than many of the lower income tax payers even make!!”

Another billiant quote from Charles. If I have a bigger mortgage payment than you I will pay more in interest. If I contribute to charity and you don’t I will have more in deductions. Yep!! You’re right as usual Chas.

And Chas for you and Annie who think I didn’t answer your question – people with no money can not create jobs. Fact. How in the world do you prove a negative? All jobs are created by someone who is willing to put their assets at risk. Some are rich and some not so rich. What risk do you JR and Annie take with your money? Buying a lottery ticket today doesn’t count.

Warren Buffet is a multimillionaire who got that way by mental work so now are we saying that unless you do physical labor it isn’t work?

Navy threat might have been a prankster (Filipino Monkey). http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080114/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_us_navy_10

Max–

You are beyond hope, but for the benefit of people who read your posts and wonder if there is any truth to them, “no, there is no truth to them.”

MaxCON is trembling in his boots about the projected 40 TRILLION deficit.

Trouble is that the projection is fifty years out. And it was the projection of Bush partisans who have always hated Social Security and wanted to kill it from day one.

If those projections about SS are true, the least of our worries will be SS, because the pessimistic growth that the projections are based on mean that the economy will be in dire shape long before SS payments are an issue.

Truth is, the no-growth and slow-growth projections are historically ridiculous. It’s not going to happen that way.

*****

Also MaxCON writes, “income is something you EARN by WORKING.

“The only way you can get more Income, is to work harder and/or smarter for it!”

Totally wrong. The richest people in America are made up of heirs of rich people–Sam Walton’s heirs are four of the top ten, for instance.

All they did was get born to a wealthy family. They did earn a damned dime . . .

Wow, two monkey references in one thread.

Bring on the Fair Tax.

Too true, Hank.

I hired one of those “charge by the hour” plumbers once for a major sewer line re-do. At about 3,500 dollars, we “negotiated” a contract.

Only paid about two and one half times what it should have cost me, and to top it off, he had a Christian fish symbol in his ad.

Note to self–don’t assume anything about people who flash the fish symbol . . .

Hank Price posted January 14, 2008 at 1:59 pm

“Many of the IPCC scientists are not climatologists. Many of the IPCC scientists that are included in the ‘concensus’ have had second thoughts and no longer wish to back the IPCC report.”

Dear Hank Price,

Really??? Okay, a simple challenge Hank — let’s see you back up those 2 claims.

The contributors of Working Group 1 are listed in the annex at,
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg1.htm

1) Tell us which of those not climate scientists.

2) Which of them no longer “back the IPCC report”.

While you’re at it, list what is scientifically wrong with the reports listed in the “References”, for example at the end of Chaper 2.

Grim,
Read buffets bio he started out with a 100 dollar investment and startup of 105k from seven other investors. Point he was not rich to start with. Buffet argues the rich should pay more in taxes and points to his secretary as an example stating that she pays more in taxes percentage wise than he does.
Common sense would suggest that the rich create more jobs. I’m sure in 1955 they did. Now I say prove it.

The Top 1% paid 35.73% of total income taxes. (Their income share was only 19.65% of total income, but they paid 35.73% of the total tax!)

The Bottom 50% paid 3.4% of total individual income taxes. (Bottom being <$29,899/yr)

*****

Interesting, Max. You post the bottom 50 percent as making about 30 grand yearly.

How much does the top 1 percent make?

The simple fact remains, that the CONs spin desperately to avoid, is that when the government taxes income, those with high incomes pay more.

Even if you had a “flat tax” system, the percentages would hardly change, because the top incomes would still be very high compared to the average.

More from the same article:

“The model that most appeals to Summers is, in fact, the United States — in the decades after World War II. At the time, this country was opening itself to more global competition, by rebuilding Europe and signing financial agreements like Bretton Woods. But it was also taking concrete steps to build the modern middle class. In addition to the G.I. Bill, there were the Federal Housing Administration, the Interstate Highway System and a very different tax code. The history of progressivism “has been one of the market being protected from its own excesses,” Summers says. “And I think now the challenge is, again, to protect a basic market system based on open trade and globalization, to make it one that works for everyone or for almost everyone, at a time when market forces are often producing outcomes that seem increasingly problematic to middle-class families.”

“A new social contract would look different, of course. The tax code of the 1950s, with a top marginal rate of 91 percent, stifled innovation. Today’s system goes too far in the other direction, Summers says, exacerbating inequality with loopholes and deductions that let a lot of affluent families avoid taxes, and the Bush tax cuts haven’t helped. Health care reform is another obvious priority. In Summers’s view, the current employer-based system, which creates insecurity for many families and big costs for companies, may need to be replaced by one in which the government pays for insurance but individuals choose what plan they want. It would be single payer, but not as England or Canada does it.”

Your right SOB,
I yearn for you nay I long for those little nuggets of wisdom which you serve up with your most macho yet sharp biting deep intellect I burn for you baby bring it on.Can we meet in front of the mens restroom in sims park?

Hank that was my point. I guess I stated it poorly. With no schooling a plumber can spend 4 years in the field and then be in that vaunted position of charging $100 per hour. A little hard work and anyone, whether you are suited for clerical work or for manual labor can make a good living. Do the math and you will see that your plumber is making over $100,000 a year when you allow for overhead if he works for himself.

Annie I guess I don’t get your point. Most rich people are self made. Few inherit it. Since 1955 has relevance because?? Poor people do not create jobs. Why is that so hard for you and Chas. As for Buffett, if he wants to give his entire fortune to charity, more power to him. Obviously you and Chas are in agreement on this, whatever it is, so I probably will never get your point. Chas and I operate on different wavelengths.

I don’t share Buffetts opinion on this and say stay out of my pocket. I will spend my money as I please. I worked hard for it. When I depart this earth I will leave it to whoever I please not to some lazy guy who can’t get off his butt long enough to earn a decent living.

The Liberals only care about killing babies, not taking care of them after they are born. So the Libs oppose drug testing of people on welfare.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,322605,00.html

Report: California Considers Welfare Drug-Screening Law Proposed by Disabled Teen
Monday, January 14, 2008
FOX NEWS

California lawmakers will weigh a bill that will require welfare applicants to be screened for drugs after a teen — disabled by his own mother’s prenatal drug use — won a contest sponsored by his local assemblyman, The Desert Sun reports.

R.J. Feild, a sophomore with spastic triplegic cerebral palsy, won Assemblyman John J. Benoit’s “There Ought to Be a Law” contest with a 500-word essay about his own life — born at 2 pounds, 2 ounces with traces of heroin, methamphetamine, marijuana, cocaine and alcohol in his body, the paper reports.

Click here to read more at MyDesert.com.

“R.J.’s captivating story provided a clear reason why we need his law,” Benoit, R-64th Dist., told The Desert Sun. “”I look forward to introducing ‘R.J.’s Law’ in this legislative session.”

Feild’s mother used alcohol and drugs while she was pregnant and on public assistance, the paper said.

grim,
Fair enough, I have to run the others can carry on the debate.
SOB you studmuffin I’ll be dreaming about you………

Cap you must be communicating Chas and Annie to much. You usually understand things better than this. I wasn’t advocating that everyone become a plumber. I was simply saying that there are many avenues that are suitable for those who don’t want to go to college.

Fast food is a place to start and the ladder to management and good money is short. Hard work that is worth it in the end.

Many people who like cleaning have started their own office cleaning companies and are making a bunch of money.

Just think of the possibilities. THey are limitless.

“As for Social Security, means testing and raising the minimum age are absolute necessities. Beyond that, further cuts will have to be made and the income cut-off point will have to be raised or eliminated.”

WS I agree with you on this. Social security is something we have told people they can count on and I believe in fulfilling promises. We can do this if politicians stay out of the ‘lockbox’ which was supposed to hold SS funds. There is more than enough blame to go around and neither the dems or repubs hold the market on it.

It’s as if every household in that bottom 80 percent is writing a check for $7,000 every year and sending it to the top 1 percent. CAPN
————————————————

BS! If this was true, where is MY $7,000 check Capn?

KsGrm — Since you have me pegged SO FAR OFF THE MARK — I cant even carry on a discussion with you… Other than to say, I havent bought a lottery ticket since the last time I hit a winner over 4 years ago!! And that was for a Pick 3…. Have fun!!

What you say is true Vaughn.

However, maintaining a rising stock price IS in the long-term best interest of the company, and impacts it’s long-term survival.

Take Countrywide for example. Note what happened to them after a sub-prime crisis AND a drop in their stock price. Sold to B of A. And now their assets will be stripped, and jobs will be lost.

http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/intchart.asp?symb=CFC&time=12&freq=1&comp=&compidx=aaaaa%7E0&compind=&uf=0&ma=&maval=&lf=1&lf2=&lf3=&type=2&size=1&txtstyle=&style=&submitted=true&intflavor=basic&origurl=%2Ftools%2Fquotes%2Fintchart.asp

“Just think of the possibilities. THey are limitless.”

That’s exactly what I’m saying: they are in no way “limitless.” They cannot be limitless.

The foundation of capitalism here and now rests on having a powerless class of working poor.

What would happen if all the janitors, meat packers, fast food flippers, garbage guys, child care providers, Wal-mart checkers, QT attendants, newspaper delivery persons, mall store retailers, receptionists, taxi cab driver, restraunt wait staffer, pizza delivery dude, telemarketer and motel maid all quit at the same time?

Our economy would seize up like an engine full of sand.

No way could all those low-paid workers get the education, experience and training for higher pay.

It is systematically impossible.

Capitalism, at its roots, demands that some achieve wealth, and the rest remain subservient.. Thats the only way Capitalism can function.. There must always be a “service” (servant) class to serve the needs of the wealthy…

WS you are right to a degree. But in another light entirely wrong. Ford recognized that his workers couldn’t afford the luxury cars he was already building but he knew they could afford a stripped down model for transportation. It’s called knowing your market and building for it.

Chas capitalism isn’t the only economic plan that has an upper and lower class. Do you think the working class in Cuba live on the same scale as Castro? How about what Chavez calls a democracy?

When Russia was a communist nation it was ruled by a class of what we would refer to a gangsters. The working class was poverty stricken because their wages were taken by the gov to support this upper class.

In America we at least have a democracy/republic that allows people to work hard and grab a piece of the pie. What will happen if we start rewarding those who want the pie brought to them.

VT you are right in some respects about Warren Buffett althought I once had the honor of meeting him personally and recognized him as a mover and shaker in a hayseeds body. I worked for a Capcities/ABC company and he was a director. He came to Wichita to look over the location. While here he walked around and talked to the employees much as Sam Walton did. He has a large investment firm now that does employ many (Berkshire Hathaway). The difference in most of those who have and those who have not is that some have no stimulous to better themselves.

Buffett could have quit years ago and lived on his millions but chose to go to work everyday. This in itself is very telling.

Outlander, what I said doesnt disagree with what you say, in theory…. BUT… even if some rise up the ladder, there will always be a need for somebody else to take their place, and thus there will always be some in the subservient class of people. It is necessary for Capitalism to exist… It is required!!

KsGrm… Major “dummy alert” I was not talking about CUBA… CUBA is not, and does not claim to be a Capitalist nation… CUBA has nothing to do with what I posted earlier… So, why in God’s Green Earth would you attack me by using CUBA as an example?? An example of WHAT??

WSClark
Posted January 14, 2008 at 7:29 pm | Permalink
“his workers couldn’t afford the luxury cars he was already building but he knew they could afford a stripped down model”

Ford didn’t make luxury cars in 1915 – he made basic Model T’s. Those models cost about $900 in those days. He raised his workers wages to $5.00 per day – high wages at that time. $1,300 per years did not buy much in the way of luxuries.
—

Correct. In 1913 Ford installed the first moving assembly line in modern manufacturing history. Because the line decreased drying time, in 1913 Ford dropped other colors in favor of a fast drying black. Hence the old saw attributed to Ford: “Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black”.

Buffet also still lives in the same rather small house that he first bought in Omaha more than 30 years ago… I have been in it… And he is one fine gentleman… However, I dont think I would want to work for Berkshire/Hathaway..

“working class has a chance to rise according to their ambition and hard work.”

Well I am younger than you ksgrm. I’m younger than most here.

The sentiment above while once true is now largely a thing of the past. Working for myself now, I am mostly outside that. But the fact of it is? Most employers treat workers like disposable parts. Their concern USED to be to the long term health of a company. Then it became about the yearlies. Then the quarterlies.

Now? The concern of management for the health and future of the COMPANY let alone the workers extends only as far as the daily stock close price.

Last regular type punch in job I had? The CEO has been in charge about 6 years. He has NEVER even been to the plant.

Now the original builder of the company, he knew every tool, every wall and most likely every worker. Now? ALL those things are just numbers on a sheet in a stack of sheets.

Be Careful, Kids — Monkey Business Can Start Wars

It seems the recent close encounter between U.S. Navy warships and Iranian speedboats in the Strait of Hormuz was spurred on by a notorious radio wisecracker called the “Filipino Monkey.” The Guardian reports that the elusive monkey—a “mythical guy out there who, hour after hour, shouts obscenities and threats” over Navy radio frequencies—was the creepy voice that American sailors heard muttering, “I am coming to you… You will explode in a few minutes,” during their 20-minute standoff last week with the Iranians. (Click here for the monkey see, monkey do. Sorry, I couldn’t resist.) For their part, the Iranians deny any aggressive behavior, claiming the video/audio released by the Pentagon is propaganda. Whatever the case, there’s a surly monkey of man out there somewhere, probably sitting alone in his basement with a toy radio set, who almost made our world much more complicated.

IN PAKISTAN DEFENSE WEB PAGE

The threatening radio transmission heard at the end of a video showing harassing maneuvers by Iranian patrol boats in the Strait of Hormuz may have come from a locally famous heckler known among ship drivers as the “Filipino Monkey.”

Since the Jan. 6 incident was announced to the public a day later, the U.S. Navy has said it’s unclear where the voice came from. In the videotape released by the Pentagon on Jan. 8, the screen goes black at the very end and the voice can be heard, distancing it from the scenes on the water.

“We don’t know for sure where they came from,” said Cmdr. Lydia Robertson, spokeswoman for 5th Fleet in Bahrain. “It could have been a shore station.”

While the threat — “I am coming to you. You will explode in a few minutes” — was picked up during the incident, further jacking up the tension, there’s no proof yet of its origin. And several Navy officials have said it’s difficult to figure out who’s talking.

See the Pentagon’s version of the video

“Based on my experience operating in that part of the world, where there is a lot of maritime activity, trying to discern [who is speaking on the radio channel] is very hard to do,” Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead told Navy Times during a brief telephone interview today.

Indeed, the voice in the audio sounds different from the one belonging to an Iranian officer shown speaking to the cruiser Port Royal over a radio from a small open boat in the video released by Iranian authorities. He is shown in a radio exchange at one point asking the U.S. warship to change from the common bridge-to-bridge channel 16 to another channel, perhaps to speak to the Navy without being interrupted.

Further, there’s none of the background noise in the audio released by the U.S. that would have been picked up by a radio handset in an open boat.

So with Navy officials unsure and the Iranians accusing the U.S. of fabrications, whose voice was it? In recent years, American ships operating in the Middle East have had to contend with a mysterious but profane voice known by the ethnically insulting handle of “Filipino Monkey,” likely more than one person, who listens in on ship-to-ship radio traffic and then jumps on the net shouting insults and jabbering vile epithets.

Navy women — a helicopter pilot hailing a tanker, for example — who are overheard on the radio are said to suffer particularly degrading treatment.

Several Navy ship drivers interviewed by Navy Times are raising the possibility that the Monkey, or an imitator, was indeed featured in that video.

Rick Hoffman, a retired captain who commanded the cruiser Hue City and spent many of his 17 years at sea in the Gulf was subject to the renegade radio talker repeatedly, often without pause during the so-called “Tanker Wars” of the late 1980s.

“For 25 years there’s been this mythical guy out there who, hour after hour, shouts obscenities and threats,” he said. “He could be tied up pierside somewhere or he could be on the bridge of a merchant ship.”

And the Monkey has stamina.

“He used to go all night long. The guy is crazy,” he said. “But who knows how many Filipino Monkeys there are? Could it have been a spurious transmission? Absolutely.”

Furthermore, Hoffman said radio signals have a way of traveling long distances in that area. “Under certain weather conditions I could hear Bahrain from the Strait of Hormuz.”

Cmdr. Jeff Davis, a Navy spokesman at the Pentagon, could not say if the voice belonged to the heckler.

“It’s an international circuit and we’ve said all along there were other ships and shore stations in the area,” he said.

When asked if U.S. officials considered whether the threats came from someone besides the Iranians when releasing the video and audio, Roughead said: “The reason there is audio superimposed over the video is it gives you a better idea of what is happening.”

Similarly, Davis said the audio was part of the “totality” of the situation and helped show the “aggressive behavior.”

Another former cruiser skipper said he thought the Monkey might be behind the audio threats when he first heard them earlier this week.

“It wouldn’t have surprised me at all,” he said. “There’s all kinds of chatter on Channel 16. Anybody with a receiver and transmitter can hear something’s going on. It was entirely plausible and consistent with the radio environment to interject themselves and make a threatening comment and think they’re being funny.”

This former skipper also noted how quiet and clean the radio “threat” was, especially when radio calls from small boats in the chop are noisy and cluttered.

“It’s a tough environment, you’re bouncing around, moving fast, lots of wind, noise. It’s not a serene environment,” he said. “That sounded like somebody on the beach or a large ship going by.”

He said he and others believe that the Filipino Monkey is comprised of several people, and whoever gets on Channel 16 to heckle instantly gets the monicker.

“It was just a gut feeling, something the merchants did. Guys would get bored, one guy hears it, comes back a year later and does it for himself,” he said. “I never thought it was one, rather it was part of the woodwork.”

The former skipper noted that he warned his crew about hecklers when preparing to transit Hormuz. “I tell them they’ll hear things on there that will be insulting,” he said. “You tell your people that you’ll hear things that are strange, insulting, aggravating, but you need to maintain a professional posture.”

A civilian mariner with experience in that region said the Filipino Monkey phenomenon is worldwide, and has been going on for years.

“They come on and say ‘Filipino Monkey’ in a strange voice. They might say it two or three times. You’re standing watch on bridge and you’re monitoring Channel 16 and all of a sudden it comes over the radio. It can happen anytime. It’s been a joke out there for years.”

While it happens all over the world, it’s more likely to occur around the Strait of Hormuz because there is so much shipping traffic, he said.
Known heckler may be behind radio threats – Army News, opinions, editorials, news from Iraq, photos, reports – Army Times

Ken: My post of about 8:30 this morning mentioned this, and I’ve since read elsewhere that other nations’ capital assets on station were aware of the origins of the “voice”, mystified at the US reaction and were stunned about the “official” reaction to 5 bass boats gunning their engines. It’s got to demean US credibility further with the Bush story about Iran’s “threateneing” behaviour at sea.

The moment was captured in music video Phantom.

bush and the sheik were “shiny happy people holding hands” in Fahrenheit 911″

Bill Clinton’s tenth anniversy of oral history today. It had to be in the UK papers instead of US. Here’s the link:
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/relationships/article3185449.ece

Correct, Phantom and JR.

But Bush actually kissed the Sheik.

What a sorry sight to see the Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful nation in the world, the lamp of liberty, the city on the hill kissing and fawning on that POS tin-pot aristocrat.

The most abjectly craven thing I’ve ever seen an American president do.

Sickening.

Next on Hank Price’s “400″ list,

” “While politicians and activists focus on the effects of fossil fuel burning the breeding and domestication of cows and cultivation of rice, for example, actually does more harm than driving too many SUV’s,” Zweerink added.”

Zweerink believes that Al Gore is not an “activist”.

http://www.climatecrisis.net/takeaction/whatyoucando/index4.html
“Eat less meat
Methane is the second most significant greenhouse gas and cows are one of the greatest methane emitters.”

Livestock is also at end of AIT film, and pages 317, 318 of book.

A high-meat diet also produces very large amounts of CO2, and causes deforestation (clearing and burning, for grazing land).

Cosmos,

Richard Lindzen used to be a part of the IPCC and no longer agrees with what they are concluding.

JR,

What big check JR and what job?

Please enlighten us.

I speculate the check Nathan. The “job” has been posted as to.

And I’m sure I will get help here.

Lindzen sits a chair bought by fossil fuels.

Does your family own fossil fuels stock Nathan?

See cause deal is? I see no other reason you embrace fossil fuels. It is 100 year old technology and America can do better.

Why do you not want to?

JR,

What chair does Lindzen sit on bought by fossil fuels?

What “fossil fuels” bought the chair?

Please enlighten us.

I admittedly do not have the links.

Your dad is willing to get you killed for mideast oil.

YOU are willing to die for mideast oil.

Why?

Have you so little faith in the ingenuity of America? I say we can get beyond oil.

What is your families stake to the point of life or death in opposition?

“My dad is not willing to get me killed for mideast oil.”

Maybe not you personally Nathan. But Hank has been emphatic that we must control the oil supply in the mideast.

“I am not willing to die for mideast oil.”

GOOD! Don’t reup. Don’t ask others to. And get off the idea of a permanent US presence in Iraq.

America is better than sending people to die instead of investing in innovation.

Well, my corner of it is anyway. I’ve no financial stake in getting people killed to make me money.

Cosmos,

You asked for proof of someone part of the IPCC leaving and no longer agreeing with them.

I gave you one example.

JR,

I don’t think you will ever understand the military or being a part of it.

I am a member of the Marine Corps because I believe in their mission and I love being a Marine. I will continue to serve in the Marines. I don’t get to pick and choose the battles I fight or if I want to join or not because of a certain conflict.

That is not how it works.

Arguing that we should control the supply of oil in the mideast doesn’t translate into the simplist of rhetoric of saying that you want to die for oil or send someone else to.

The simple fact is that oil is the fuel of our economy. Oil is used in a wide variety of things beyond just transportation.

Both my father and I argue for and agree with many of the things which Bush was pushing for since day one to reduce our dependency on Middle East oil. The Democrats have blocked it since day one.

Neither my father nor I have some vested interest in oil beyond arguing that it is a huge part of our national security and that common sense will tell you that we have a need to protect the supply of it.

“I wouldn’t expect you to do anything patriotic like serve your country or allow your kid to either. So don’t worry about my expectations, they are about as low as they can be for you.”

There’s not anything patriotic about serving in the military when the goal is colonial expansion for economic gain.

What you and your father mean is securing a supply of it Nathan.

And we have used up ours.

Maybe you have and your family have a financial stake in the fuel of the past. Maybe not. In any case, I sure do not. And I will not support Imperial policy or fight or send others to to maintain a fuel that is running out in the face of greater and more dangerous securing of it.

But what do I know? I’m poor in money. By your definition I must be stupid or unblessed and so my bad.

Good night.

JR,

Seriously, start posting to yourself in notepad.

It is obvious you do not wish to have any kind of dialogue here when you keep posting this strawman crap.

Doug,

What does the size of the military have to do with oil?

What is this drug of the rich you are talking about?

And finally, can we move past this one sentence soundbite partisan rhetoric?

JR,

If you stopped acting like the partisan hack you have turned into you could love America.

America is more than whomever the President is at the time.

I did not like Bill Clinton. I didn’t agree with his politics and many things he did.

I still loved America, I still joined the military, and I still continued to function just fine.

If you could move past your intense hatred filled heart, perhaps you could find some room for love.

Hilary could be elected President, the Democrats could take over more of the Congress, it could be your little liberal wet dream.

I would still wake up, know that I had a great relationship with Jesus, a family, a great group of friends, and the knowledge that I live in one of the greatest countries in the world.

The entire point of those blog meet ups was so that we could all get together and realize that there is more than just politics.

Nathan,

How about let’s say 10% = “many”? Fair?

There are over 600 contributors to the IPCC 2007 WG1 report. Can you and/or your father find 60 of them who now disagree with the consensus?

Some more to add to the consensus list,

‘The Consensus on Global Warming: From Science to Industry & Religion’
http://www.logicalscience.com/consensus/consensus.htm

JR,

“It is not me who hates Nathan.”

Then why do you constantly post the absolute partisan crap you do saying you hate this, you hate that, you don’t love America, etc…etc…etc…?

“It is not me who takes pleasure in others pain.”

I never said you did. Neither do I.

“(When you gleefully tell kfg she will never be allowed marriage.)”

Well, gleefully is something hard to determine from a blog there JR. I don’t believe I was ever gleeful about it. I was point of fact about it when I said it.

KFG has no problem getting mean and nasty with people when she is on this blog.

Forgive me if when I reply to her, it is not saturated with hearts and roses.

“It is not me that judges others as you and your dad have me and others.”

What judging have we done JR?

“It isn’t me that accused you of being a viewer of child porn. YOU did that.”

JR, I could explain this to you over a period of instruction lasting 100 hours and you still wouldn’t get it.

I NEVER SAID YOU WERE A VIEWER OF CHILD PORN. I APOLOGIZED THE NEXT DAY FOR THE CONTENT IN MY EXAMPLE.

“And it isn’t me or anyone on my “side” condones the descendancy of the blog into mindless nameless attack. ”

Well, you might not condone it, but there are plenty on your side who are some of the most vile, mean, and disruptive here.

“I got your Dad’s back on one of my first posts after I got back. And yours shortly after.

When did you ever say a good word for me?”

I can’t think of anything of recent. Then again, most of your posting of recent has been some of the most partisan hate filled crap to date.

Again posts crossed.

SO Nathan you are the child of ingenuity and work?

Well why do you scorn it in others?

No I don’t have your money OR those who “made” it FOR you.

And you are not a bad person. I know of your help in a project I called for to help someone. Let’s get together and finish it if you will treat me as more than dirt under your feet.

I don’t aspire to riches. I’ve never had much in the way of money. I don’t want to. My take is people who have money sell themselves out. I’d rather be poor and proud than rich and above.

JR,

“SO Nathan you are the child of ingenuity and work?”

What on Earth does that even mean JR????

“Well why do you scorn it in others?”

Scorn what in others JR? Again with the complex question.

“No I don’t have your money OR those who “made” it FOR you.”

What money do I have? I don’t have any money at all. No one made anything for me. Again with your presumptions.

“And you are not a bad person. I know of your help in a project I called for to help someone. Let’s get together and finish it if you will treat me as more than dirt under your feet.”

JR, the only one who treats you like dirt under their feet is you to yourself. You have sold yourself on being a victim. Until you are able to get out of that mindset, I can’t help you one bit at all.

“I don’t aspire to riches. I’ve never had much in the way of money. I don’t want to. My take is people who have money sell themselves out. I’d rather be poor and proud than rich and above.”

Good for you. Now if only you would actually believe what you are saying here and stop acting like a victim.

Also,

KFG is a wonderful person in person. I don’t think I have yet met anyone from the blog who wasn’t nice in person.

Yet somehow, on this blog, we treat each other like crap.

I don’t eagerly attack anyone. I love to debate. Most everything I do here is attack your opinions and ideas. I try not to make it personal.

I do not claim to be perfect. I can and do say that I am no where near as vile and mean spirited as several posters on this blog.

The worst I have ever done is along the lines of calling people stupid.

My father and I have invited people from the blog to our home, our club house, and even to Lake Afton for food and a get together.

XXX and I disagree on many things, but he has been welcomed into our home and I consider him to be a good friend.

So, what is your problem JR?

“Nathan
Posted January 15, 2008 at 12:56 am | Permalink
JR,

I don’t think you will ever understand the military or being a part of it.

I am a member of the Marine Corps because I believe in their mission and I love being a Marine. I will continue to serve in the Marines. I don’t get to pick and choose the battles I fight or if I want to join or not because of a certain conflict.

That is not how it works”

Can you beat your chest any louder?

Oh, have you and your daddy figured out exactly how old the Earth actually is?

Well Nathan good on you for be willing to fight for your America.

Please to excuse me and mine. We’ll be about making it worth fighting for. Unless/until that happens, it’s your country your fight.