WE Blog

Hey MonkeyMan,

It’s working a lot better than expected but not as good as we hoped for.

Here is Dr. Antonio Zichichi’s short bio. We’ll see later what kind of dirt cosmos’s left wing websites can dig up on him.

http://www.ccsem.infn.it/em/zichichi/short_bio.html

Damn you Monkeyhawk… NOw I got Bush’s voice repeating those words in my head. >>> Holly crap now I see his smurk in my mind’s eye! I know, I’ll sing play the Barney song over and over and over in my mind. “I love you, you love me….”
There now get that out of your HEAD! heee

Drudge:
“Clinton On Immigration: ‘No Woman Is Illegal’…”

Great, this is just what we need in a President…a traitor willing to sell out the security and economic future of this country to BUY VOTES!

Drudge:
“US TRIPLE-A CREDIT RATING UNDER THREAT FROM SOARING WELFARE COSTS…”

We are already losing financial credibility in world markets because of entitlements and she wants to expand welfare entitlements and benefits, even to illegals.

Good Morning Hank,

You should read the the January 10 open thread.

I outlined who runs the Websites realclimate.org and desmog.blog.

Both organizations are associated with moveon.org and greenpeace.

Betsy Ensley, who runs realclimate.org, is directly associated with moveon.org and has direct ties to Al Gore as she used to be his communications media manager.

realclimate.org, a blog, also has been known to snip out comments that disagree with their view of climate change.

Both Websites, that cosmos cherishes so much, are so far left it even scares somes Libs.

Peer-reviewed science on parade?

More like Sneer-reviewed science.

The Countrywide CEO is going to become extremely wealthy for taking the company to the brink, and then selling to Bank of America. If you want talent like that, the Market has to pay Big Bucks!

A few observations about the GOP debate last night.

Ron Paul when questioned about the legitimacy of his candidacy, explained in some detail about how he best represents the ideals of the Republican party, including the comment (paraphrasing) “.. how conservative is it to borrow 10 billion from China to give to Mushariff, who overthrew a legitimately elected democratic government, and done little to actually help in the hunt for Osama.. ”

McCain in addressing the immigration issue repeated how he had been a change agent for 25 years in the Senate, commander of the largest Navy squadron, and has known there was an immigration problem since the Reagan years and knows how to close the borders.

If we take him at his word, the question begs to be asked (not just of him but all the candidates dem and gop) If you’ve known for 25 years there was a problem —- why didn’t you do something about it 20 years ago where has your leadership been in all those years … we should be asking that of all our reps

2 good examples of how our government has failed us over the past 4-5 decades ……

Heard the coment this AM on a talking head show that “Washington is designed to resist change…”" How sad – how true?

Will we ever see any specific plans from the candidates ?

Finally couldn’t figure out til this morning who Romney reminded me of —– Richie Rich from the old “Archie” comics — also seems whenever he opens his mouth his eyes widen with the look of a kid in class that was hoping the teacher wouldn’t call on him

Did you see in this mornings paper that Harrah’s is going to present it’s resort / casino proposal to the residents of Mulvane next week …… will be interesating to see how things heat up between Mulvane and Wellington ….. seems a lot more support in Mulvane for a casino than people thought …… from chats with neighbors and in line at Dillons it seems about 2 to 1 in favor of a casino at Mulvane

Hank – as I recall ‘realclimate’ was started by a group of active climatologists.

As for cosmic rays there is a problem with that theory which has been examined quite a bit over recent decades that I have been following the issue. They are not increasing

I have been following the climate debate for about a quarter-century – not out in blogs or ‘popular magazines’ but rather sequestered in my science libraries.

Jubak is talking about stocks to pick to benefit from the rising price of oil and looming energy problems.

And the first stocks he talks about? Water pumps.

Yes indeedy. He suggests water will be at the bottom, so to speak, of all the solutions and work arounds. And China will be facing water problems before energy problems.

So he recommends water pump stocks. And who is deeply involved in big water pumps? The bush family evil empire scion, Jeb. He also recommends desalination plants. Wonder which bfee member has the inside track on those plants?

Water solutions to oil problems are not sustainable. Are you listening, ethanol fans?

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/5StocksToSurgeInOurEnergyCrisis.aspx

And yet, adrian “irrigation boy” polansky, kansas secretary of water wasting, is promoting ethanol.

Which way did they go? How many of them were there? I must know, I am their leader!

That seems to be the refrain of the sebelius cronies. Especially when it comes to water and wind.

Writerdog,

Ron Paul has Libertarian views, not conservative. There is a great difference.

The reform in healthcare benefit provision would be good for business IMHO, making business more competitive in a global market (which, of course, is reality in today’s times).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8oO_OD3PtI&feature=related

this was not the one I was looking for, but is still a gooder. though I guess I show my age when I say that the problem with the younger crowd supporting Paul is that is would have been just as good without the fancy editing and repeats.

An Inconvenient Survey

February 12, 2007

Last Friday I visited Savannah, Georgia to participate in a viewing and discussion of Al Gore’s “An Inconvenient Truth.” This is the second time I have had a chance to participate in such an event, and it was a pleasure to participate in this event (including getting to see a thoughtful talk by Georgia Tech’s peter Webster).. This time I thought I’d collect a bit of data. So like the college professor that I am I gave a pop quiz right after the movie. After watching a documentary on climate change one should have the basic facts down, right? Unfortunately, no. Here is the pop quiz I gave with answers on the other side.

1. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change released its 4th Assessment Report last Friday. It projects a likely global average temperature increase for 2100 of (degrees C):

A. 1.1 to 6.4
B. 1.5 to 4.5
C. 5.0 to 11.5
D. 7.0 to 9.0

2. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change released its 4th Assessment Report last Friday. It projects a (mid-range) global average sea level rise for 2100 of:

A. 16 inches
B. 48 inches
C. 10 feet
D. 70 feet

3. If the Kyoto Protocol is fully implemented, including US participation, the effects on global average temperatures in 2080 would be:

A. Undetectable
B. Reduce the projected increase by 0.5 degrees
C. Reduce the projected increase by 1.0 degrees
D. Reduce the projected increase by 2.0 degrees

4. If the global greenhouse gas emissions magically stopped right now global average temperatures would:

A. Stop increasing immediately
B. Continue increasing for many decades

5. In order to stabilize atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide requires that net global emissions be reduced from today’s levels:

A. to 1990 levels
B. by 20%
C. by 50%
D. by 100%

Answers:

1. A
2. A
3. A
4. B
5. D

conclusion:

No one in the audience of about 200 people admitted to getting all 5 correct. Judging by the show of hands very few came close to the correct answers on 1, 2, 3 or 5. Most people did get #4 correct. In fact, on 1, 2, and 3 the overwhelming answers were C and D and 5 it was A and B. And this was a very educated, engaged audience. I would venture that a scientific survey would find that Mr. Gore’s movie is more apt to mislead than bring the viewer to a clear understanding of the center of gravity of scientific opinion on climate change.

Is it alarmist? By effect on its uninformed audience, I’d hypothesize based on this nonscientific data set that it is.

What was most troubling was the comments of a few people in the audience who reacted pretty negatively to my remarks. One person commented (paraphrase):

We are here to talk about the end of the world and you want to talk about hurricanes. It is energy policy only we need to talk about, not disasters.

Of course Mr. Gore’s movie is chock full of references to disasters, most notably Katrina. The amazing thing to me is that about 6 people from Savannah that I spoke to in some depth, including taxi drivers and lawyers, mentioned to me that Savannah is fortunate to be in a hurricane shadow – it can’t be hit. The reality is that it can and will be hit, and hit hard. And to the extent that the focus on climate change distracts from hurricane preparation, when that fateful day occurs, the resulting disaster will inevitably be worse.

And if you don’t think that the focus on climate-change-as-energy-policy distracts from the need to adapt to climate change, consider this amazing admission from a state official in New Mexico, reacting to our recent paper in Nature:

The problem, Pielke said, is that advocates fear efforts to adapt to climate change will blunt calls to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

That fear has affected New Mexico’s ambitious governmental climate change effort.

A report last year from the New Mexico Office of the State Engineer concluded that “adaptation” is critical to coping with climate change and population growth.

But most of the state’s climate change effort has focused on cutting greenhouse gas emissions rather than on coping with the collision between a growing population and a changing climate.

Jim Norton, one of the state officials heading up the effort, agrees with Pielke that adaptation is critical. But there was a fear, Norton said, that too much emphasis “could sort of divert attention away from solving the problem of growing greenhouse gas emissions.” [emphasis added]

Reducing emissions is a challenge well worth undertaking. But when it becomes such an overwhelming focus that nothing else is allowed, especially adaptation in mal-adapated communities, then a virtue becomes a vice. An Inconvenient Truth mislead because it suggests that we only need do one thing to respond to the threat of climate change. The reality is that we must do many things, among which we must evaluate tradeoffs, costs and benefits, risks and uncertainties. And that is a real inconvenient truth.”
author: R. Pielke, Jr.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20059-2005Apr1.html

Michael Kinsley–

Spending goes up faster under Republican presidents than under Democratic ones. And the economy grows faster under Democrats than Republicans. What grows faster under Republicans is debt.

Under Republican presidents since 1960, the federal deficit has averaged $131 billion a year. Under Democrats, that figure is $30 billion. In an average Republican year, the deficit has grown by $36 billion. In the average Democratic year it has shrunk by $25 billion. The national debt has gone up more than $200 billion a year under Republican presidents and less than $100 billion a year under Democrats.

As for measures of general prosperity, each president inherits the economy. What counts is what happens next. Let’s take just two measures, although they all show the same thing: Democrats do better under every variation. From 1960 to 2005 the gross domestic product measured in year-2000 dollars rose an average of $165 billion a year under Republican presidents and $212 billon a year under Democrats. Measured from 1989, or measured with a one-year delay, or both, the results are similar. And how about this one? The average annual rise in real per capita income — that’s the statistic that puts money in your pocket. Democrats score about 30 percent higher.

Democratic presidents have a better record on inflation (averaging 3.13 percent compared with 3.89 percent for Republicans) and on unemployment (5.33 percent versus 6.38 percent). Unemployment went down in the average Democratic year, up in the average Republican one.

Almost forgot: If you start in 1981 and if you factor in a year’s delay, Republican presidents edge out Democratic ones on inflation, 4.57 to 4.36. Congratulations.

FDR, why didn’t he have the Death Camps in Europe bombed? He might have prevented 1.5 million Jewish deaths.

Worst President Ever.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,321932,00.html

The Allies had detailed reports about Auschwitz during the war from Polish partisans and escaped prisoners. But they chose not to bomb the camp, the rail lines leading to it, or any of the other Nazi death camps, preferring instead to focus all resources on the broader military effort.

Between 1.1 million and 1.5 million people were murdered at the infamous camp in Poland.

Musharaff warns the U.S. don’t cross into Pakistan trying to go after the Taliban or Al Quida. Would that make Pakistan a sanctuary?

With Cleveland and Baltimore and other cities suing the banks over loans they made to poor stupid people to buy houses, I wonder how many of these banks will ever make home loans to poor stupid people in the future?

None. Housing prices will sink even deeper, as no one will be able to get a mortgage loan anymore. Thanks to Baltimore, Cleveland, and their like.

And the spoils of these lawsuits will not go to help those supposedly harmed by the big mean nasty banks. Oh no, the money will go to line the budgets of the cities, so they can build new schools.

The new schools will be used to de-educate future idiots to be scammed by big business, to be sued by big cities…….

Presidential wannabe Hillary has made the statment that “there are no illegal women” in Nevada during a campaign stop. That was in response to someone stating that his wife was illegal. So, Clinton followers, is that meant to be taken literally, that there are no illegal woment, but there are illegal men? Or more widespread, and that there are no illegal people? Does that mean blanket amnesty for everyone now here illegally? What does it really mean, other than a kiss of the cheek panacea to a man in a real legally troubling condition of being married to a woman that is in the United States illegally?
Nice sound bite at the expense of a persons real problems.

Nope, Max; we’re not allowing the Mexican Government troops to cross the border in pursuit of its enemies. Somewhat different case there, don’t you think?

Using your analogy, the Taliban and al Qaeda are the illegal immigrants. Dealing with them is the responsibility of the Pakistani government, as it is the responsibility of the United States government to deal with its illegal alien problem.

Bush squandered the opportunity to work with Pakistan to crush the Taliban/alQuada several yewars ago. With the operation in Afghanistan at the beginning, right after 9/11, we had enough good will in the region to accomplish that. Cross-border COVERT operations could have been carried out then; especially since the Taliban had not been able to re-group and establish their new bases.

Unfortunately, George WMD preferred adventures elsewhere.

Hank – for websites I tend to wander over to wunderground (stupidly named IMO) and thne link from there. Also, of course, the stuff I read up at Ablah (WSU)

Hank Price posted January 11, 2008 at 11:41 am

“I went to realclimate.org a few weeks ago and read the bio on the scientists that seem to run it.

They are not all climatologists if I remember correctly.”

Which of these are not climatologists?

‘Contributor Bio’s’
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?cat=10

Do you see anything in their education, research, publications, etc, that suggests they are not credible climate scientists?

RealClimate also has ‘guest contributor’ posts, from other, also highly qualified scientists.

What’s absurd to me, is that the area being used by terrorist and insurgents has never been truly under the dominance and control of the Pakistan government. Therefore, they barely qualify in my mind as being an area of Pakistan.

VT – I offer a rather inexact analogy. US military carried out incursions into Mexico after bandits – the name Pancho Villa comes to mind. Also, of course, we had the “secret bombing” of Cambodia which led to tremendous bloodshed there.

“Ben” –

And the “secret bombing” of Cambodia prompted one of the articles of impeachment against Dick Nixon before he resigned from office.

Without going all Paulbearer on this, the Constitution is pretty clear about what it should take for the United States to wage war. It will take reversing policy that dates back to Korea, Vietnam, Granada, Panama, Kuwait, Bosnia, and George WMD Bush’s little adventure into Iraq. But where’s the downside?

The Constitution — it’s not just for shredding anymore.

MonkeyHawk, while the Constitution discusses Congressional declaration of war formally, there were earlier exercises of use of the military by the Executive against a foreign state prior to Korea, IIRC.

Korea is an interesting case, to be sure; the involvement in the Korean matter arose from the treaty obligations imposed on the members of the United Nations, IIRC; and, as set out in the Constitution, once a treaty is ratified, it becomes a part of the laws of the United States. (U.S. Constitution, Article VI, second titled provision). The provision of “advisors” to South Viet Nam beginning in the second Eisenhower administration was, again from memory, taken under the SEATO treaty.

Gee Stumper, sorry you were suckered into getting one of those ARM loans.

Sub-prime was the only way you could go I guess.

And that nasty mortgage company forced you to buy that house you couldn’t afford and forced you to sign the mortgage didn’t they?

Maybe Wichita will file a lawsuit to save you from yourself.

“Vaughn Tolle” wrote:

“…there were earlier exercises of use of the military by the Executive against a foreign state prior to Korea, IIRC.”

I can’t recall the specifics, other than General Funston’s foray into Mexico after Pancho Villa, but I’m sure you’re probably right. That little border dust-up might not have justified an all-out war against all of Mexico; but Taft (Wilson?) probably should have received a Congressional mandate, just the same. Even granting the Executive Branch some slack for deep dark “5-minutes to Doomsday” Cold War scenarios, most events that might result in depoloying American troops overseas offer plenty of lead time for Congress to approve.

Last week’s little splash with Iranian speedboats reminded some of us old-timers of how the Gulf of Tonkien Resolution seriously got America into a disaster.

But the seven years of George WMD Bush’s Reign of Error has concentrated many aspects of constitutional division of power into the Oval Office. That’s got to change. That’s got to be reversed.

Consider that religious figures associated with Bush believe the final battles of the Apocalypse are near, with fires that will spread from the Middle East. Where James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Tim LaHaye and John Hagee once pressed Bush hard for war with Iraq, they now clamor for one with Iran. Shrub’s brand of Christianity is clearly radical or extremist rather than evangelical; it has an authoritarian, punishing, us-versus-them flavor; it views Christ less as a figure of tolerance and forgiveness than as a five-star general coming to wreek vengeance on all who have failed to join His army.

MonekyHawk,

From my perspective, I find people like you to be the scary ones.

You actually believe all that stuff about Christians.

You are far scarier to me.

MonkeyHawk,

I believe certain things, but the way you take them out of context, blend them together with politics and then draw some clearly crazy conclusions…

That is where we part ways.

This is for you Democrats who want to cut Federal spending.

Go look for the pork and cut it!

http://www.usaspending.gov/index.php

The one sure way to cut Federal deficits, Max, is to elect a Democratic president.

See Kinsley’s historical analysis above.

Facts don’t lie.

CNN is just talking about a Belgium woman who was recruited as a suicide bomber in Iraq. Blond, white and young. So much for profiling, they are trying to figure out how and round up the other members of the cell in Belgium. Luckily the only one who died when she blew herself up was she. Unlucky is that this adds a dimension to a fight that we had put on the back burner. What puzzles me is there was someone that would have been the perfect weapon for another attack here in America. But then the terrorists often have differing opinions as to where the enemies of Islam are. I read that many that were at the camps in Afghanistan were not actually members of Al-Qaeda. They had no interest in going after the U.S. Their intent was to get the training and return to fight in their own countries.

CapnAmerica writes:
“This was not “stupid people taking out stupid loans.” That would be the stupid way to look at it. It was a failure of regulators to stop mortage companies from taking advantage of people.”

Typical, you got it pretty much backa$$wards again there Cap. Many of these defaulting loans were to people speculating in the real estate market trying to make a ‘killing’ on appreciation and deserve the consequences of the risks unwisely taken. Market values didn’t keep going up, values dropped and lenders needed more capital to secure the loans.

And why is it always ’someone else’s fault’ and you never question the individual’s responsibility?

Luke 14-28,29,30
28
Which of you wishing to construct a tower does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if there is enough for its completion?
29
Otherwise, after laying the foundation and finding himself unable to finish the work the onlookers should laugh at him
30
and say, ‘This one began to build but did not have the resources to finish.’

Yes, the lenders made stupid loans and are suffering for it. And, the borrowers took out stupid loans and are paying for it. That is unless someone jumps in where they don’t belong and makes someone innocent of the whole mess pay for it.

Regular posted January 11, 2008 at 10:40 am
“…

February 12, 2007
…
So like the college professor that I am I gave a pop quiz right after the movie. After watching a documentary on climate change one should have the basic facts down, right? Unfortunately, no. Here is the pop quiz I gave with answers on the other side.

1. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change released its 4th Assessment Report last Friday. [question]
…”

The documentary, ‘An Inconvenient Truth’, premiered at the 2006 Sundance Film Festival, January 19 thru 29, 2006.

What kind of “college professor” expects an audience to learn facts about a report released “last Friday” from an over one-year old documentary?

A political scientist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_A._Pielke_%28Jr%29

This was not “stupid people taking out stupid loans.” That would be the stupid way to look at it. It was a failure of regulators to stop mortage companies from taking advantage of people.

Because CONs want to let people get suckered into bad loans, our entire society suffers. Capn – A

You obviously don’t know how heavily regulated the mortgage business already is or you wouldn’t make such an ignorant comment Capn.

How many forms you sign last time you closed on a mortgage loan?

You didn’t read them, did you?

You stupid sheep!

The Government is here to save people from stupid sheep.

You know what the proposed government solution is?

Guess -

That’s right -

MORE F-O-R-M-S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

Nathan,

I recommend The Left Behind series. I’ve read the first 3 books. Also, these are now out on DVD.

A more condensed look at the end times was a popular book from the 70’s that I also recommend.

The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey.

The constant war in the Mideast is put into perspective reading these books. It seems the World was designed for conflict in this area.

Look at the geography, the geology, the history of civilizations starting there.

Some strange gooooo must have caused all this to happen.

“Nathan” offers (re: the “Left Behind” books):

“I think his books are great. I have not read any of them…”

“Biblical analysis”

An analysis of a “history” book: heavily edited with political purposes, translated how many times?

* THE DEMOCRATIC FRONT-RUNNERS *
And their Religious Beliefs, Do they uphold them?

by Lauren Green

Religion is a very misunderstood term in the secular world. We call someone religious without really knowing if faith plays a part in how they live their lives. A person can go to church or temple once a week, participate in all the high holy days and even be tight with their pastor or several members of the clergy — but it doesn’t always manifest itself in daily life activities.

When a politician talks about their faith, what are they really saying? Are they saying they hold to their particular religion’s doctrines? Or do they have another set of beliefs that’s operating as their real faith? Are they more influenced by the teachings of the Bible? The secular culture world view? Or, do they pick and choose from the cafeteria of ideas?

Just on the issues of abortion, gay marriage and the death penalty, there’s quite a bit of non-alignment among the candidates and their particular professed faiths. I chose these categories because this is where the “rubber meets the road” so to speak, for most churches. This is where their most sacred held beliefs about whom we are as human beings in relation to God are held. This is where the basics of human existence, hold their greatest weight: Who are we? And, where are we going?

I would encourage everyone to view the candidates’ position under the microscope of true belief stated in their platforms, professed in their agendas, and shown in their actions.

Below is my brief research. There’ll be more as the campaign kicks into high gear.

————————-

I) United Methodist Church

Clinton and Edwards’ stated religion is the United Methodist Church . It’s considered a liberal, mainline church — the second largest Protestant church after the Southern Baptist Convention.

>> Church Beliefs:

Abortion: Officially, the church upholds the sanctity of unborn human life and condemns abortion as morally wrong — except in the cases where the well-being of the mother is threatened.

Gay Marriage: The United Methodist Church believes marriage is between one man and one woman only and prohibits the celebration of same-sex unions.

Death Penalty: The church condemns capital punishment and says there’s no reason for taking human life as retribution or social vengeance.

>> Hillary Clinton:

Abortion: Clinton has said abortion is protected by the Constitution, but there is “an opportunity for people of good faith to find common ground in this debate.” She has praised religious groups for promoting abstinence and opposed the Supreme Court’s March 2007 decision to uphold a ban on late-term abortions.

Gay Marriage: She opposed same-sex marriage and favors civil union, but said she would not stand in the way if New York passed a law legalizing same-sex marriage.

Death Penalty: Clinton is a long-time advocate of the death penalty and lobbied for President Clinton’s Crime bill, which expanded the list of crimes subjected to the federal death penalty.

>> John Edwards:

Abortion: Edwards supports abortion rights and has won support of a prominent abortion rights advocate, Kate Michelman.

Gay Marriage: During the 2004 campaign, Edwards said he personally opposed gay marriage, but supported both civil unions for homosexual couples and each state determining its own policy.

Death Penalty: He supports the death penalty, saying some crimes “deserve the ultimate penalty.”

Source: Pew Forum on Religion

II) United Church of Christ

Sen. Obama is a member of the ultra liberal United Church of Christ, which is not to be confused with the conservative Church of Christ. He belongs to Trinity UCC in Chicago, an 8,000 plus member mega church that calls itself on its Web site “unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian,” and is pastored by the controversial Jeremiah Wright.

>> Church Beliefs:

Abortion: The UCC has strongly supported the legalization of abortion since 1971.

Gay Marriage: In 2005, the UCC became the first mainline church to endorse and support same-sex marriage.

Death Penalty: The church opposes the death penalty as a means of restorative justice.

>> Barack Obama:

Abortion: Obama supports abortion rights and voted against a bill to ban late-term abortions.

Gay Marriage: Obama says that he believes ‘marriage is between a man and a woman” but he wrote in The Audacity of Hope that he remained “open to the possibility that my unwillingness to support gay marriage is misguided … I may have been infected with society’s prejudices and predilections and attributed them to God.”

Death Penalty: He says the death penalty “does little to deter crime,” but he supports it for cases in which “the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage.”

Source: Pew Forum on Religion

* THE REPUBLICAN FRONT-RUNNERS *

I) Mormon Church

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints , otherwise called the Mormon Church, is headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah and has temples worldwide with about 13 million members. “Adherents refer to themselves as Christian but are not part of the Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant traditions.

(A discussion on the difference between Mormons and mainline Christian churches is for another blog and another day.)

>> Church Beliefs:

Abortion: Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the LDS Church stated in 1999, “The church opposed elective abortion for personal or social convenience. The church teaches that, subject only to some very rare exceptions, they must not submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for an abortion.”

Gay Marriage: The Church of Latter Day Saints has strict laws on chastity, and the church believes that homosexuality is in violation of those laws, and a serious sin.

Death Penalty: The church is opposed to the death penalty. Resolution of the Church of Jesus Christ LDS, April 20, 1995: “…the standing High Council affirms that it is a faithful reflection of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, whom we proclaim to encourage society not to use capital punishment as a penal response to crime.”

>> Mitt Romney:

Abortion: Describes himself as “firmly pro-life.” Believes abortion should be banned — except in cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother.

Gay Marriage: As Massachusetts governor, he actively opposed a decision by the state’s Supreme Judicial Court to permit same-sex marriage.

Death Penalty: Romney supports the death penalty for deadly acts of terrorism.

Source: Pew Forum on Religion, Wikipedia, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

II) Baptist

John McCain attends a Baptist Church and has for years, but hasn’t been baptized into the faith. He had been known officially as an Episcopalian, but recently stated that he was in fact a Baptist. So in that, he shares his faith with political rival Mike Huckabee.

The Southern Baptist Convention is the largest Baptist group in the world and the largest Protest denomination in the United States.

>> Church Beliefs:

Abortion: The Southern Baptist Convention opposes abortion.

Gay Marriage: The church opposes same-sex marriage as a violation of the Biblical understanding of marriage as between one man and one woman.

Death Penalty: It generally supports the death penalty as a Biblical position.

>> John McCain:

Abortion: McCain supports overturning Roe v. Wade and banning abortion, except in cases of rape, incest or threat of the life of the mother.

Gay Marriage: He says marriage should be between a man and a woman and opposed a federal constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

Death Penalty: McCain supports the death penalty for federal crimes.

>> Mike Huckabee:

Abortion: Huckabee is anti-abortion and said Roe v. Wade should be overturned but that its reversal would not eliminate abortion laws.

Gay Marriage: He opposes gay marriage — when asked if he believes that homosexuality is immoral, he said, “That’s their business but doesn’t agree with it.”

Death Penalty: Huckabee supports the death penalty.

Sources: The Southern Baptist Convention

III) Roman Catholic Church

The Roman Catholic church is the largest group of Christians in the United States and makes up the largest Christian denomination in the world with more than one billion members. Officially “it is a Christian church in full communion with the Bishop of Rome, currently Pope Benedict XVI.

>> Church Beliefs:

Abortion: The Roman Catholic Church has continuously and steadfastly opposed the legalization of abortion and has supported virtually all meaningful pro-life legislation and public policies.

Gay Marriage: The church opposes gay marriage and the social acceptance of homosexuality and same-sex relationships but teaches that homosexual persons deserve respect, justice and pastoral care.

Death Penalty: It opposes — Pope John Paul II declared in his 1995 encyclical “Evangelium Vitae,” the Church’s near total opposition to the death penalty.

>> Rudy Giuliani:

Abortion: Giuliani says he hates abortion, but adds “I believe in a woman’s right to choose.”

Gay Marriage: He opposes gay marriage and has stated “marriage should be between a man and a woman.” He also does not support a federal amendment banning gay marriage. As NYC mayor, he signed legislation recognizing domestic partnerships, marched in gay pride parades and actively supported gay rights.

Death Penalty: Giuliani favors the death penalty and has advocated for capital punishment for those who commit treason against the U.S.

Chas.
Posted January 11, 2008 at 6:31 pm | Permalink
Nathan — Many Christians live in this world who dont share your enthusiasm for the End Times. I would advise you just get over it, and not make it an issue here.
—————————————————-

Satan isn’t thrilled about the end times either. Those who believe, look forward to the day of victory!

Revelations 22:12-21

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

aLERT!! aLERT!! Please take note: Max knows how to find a Bible Program, and Edit/Copy verses!

Your time is coming, McCluer, the next president will be a Democrat and he may decide to put folks like in Gitmo.

Chas.
Posted January 11, 2008 at 9:33 pm | Permalink
aLERT!! aLERT!! Please take note: Max knows how to find a Bible Program, and Edit/Copy verses!
——————————————————————————————————–

I can show you how sometime if you want Chas.

The revenge of Hell for Democrats

Welcome to Heaven,” St. Peter says to the newly arrived Democrat. “Before you settle in, you must spend one day in Hell and one in Heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity.”

St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down to Hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a club and all his friends and other Democrats who had worked with him. Everyone is very happy and in evening dress.

They greet him, hug him, and reminisce about the good times they had getting rich at expense of the people. They play golf and dine on lobster and caviar. The devil is also there, a very friendly guy who laughs and tells jokes.

It is time to go. Everyone waves while the elevator rises. The elevator goes up and the door reopens on Heaven, where St. Peter is waiting for him. Now it’s time to visit Heaven.

24 hours pass with the Democrat joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns.

“Well then, you’ve spent a day in Hell and another in Heaven. Now choose your eternity.”

The Democrat reflects for a minute, then answers, “Well, Heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in Hell.”

Saint Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes back down to hell. The doors of the elevator open, and he is in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage. He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags. The devil comes over to him and grins menacingly.

“I don’t understand,” stammers the Democrat. “Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and club and we ate lobster and caviar and had a great time. Now all there is a wasteland full of garbage and my Friends look miserable.”

The Devil looks at him, smiles and says, “Yesterday we were campaigning. Today you voted for us!”

“And your math is wrong. At $200 billion surplus per year, it will take just 45 years to pay off the $9 Trillion debt.”

Hey, Dmabass Max – I was referring to the TOTAL debt, not just the National Debt.

You conveniently forgot about the $39 trillion in SS and Medicaid entitlements that are already on the books.

Typical Republican math.

Oh Clark, you admit then that there is a pending Social Security/Medicare fiscal crisis!

Great!

Now what you Dems gonna do about it?

That’s amusing James McCluer.

Meds wearing off?

Now you KNOW ya can’t resist. Suddenly and mysteriously the blog is about to be populated by cons and all of them just as bats89t crazy as you.

We all know the drill.

The stage is set. Start your show.

Clark, I told you yesterday.

What’s your plan?

Oh Max, Millions of Christians dont believe in the psychotic hype about the “second coming” of Christ. Because Millions of Christians know that Christ already had a miraculous Second Coming — it was the Resurrection!

As I told Nathan earlier, this is not the place to discuss such a matter… Too many Christians have various beliefs about the Eschaton…

First of all, CluerMc, it’s William Stephen Clark, hence the WSClark nic………

Second, you never answered, Max, on how you would pay down the Debt – you just gave more of the same discredited trickle down theory rhetoric.

So, given that TD has never worked to balance the budget, how do you plan to pay down the National Debt, Max?

#
Chas.
Posted January 11, 2008 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

“Oh Max, Millions of Christians dont believe in the psychotic hype about the “second coming” of Christ. Because Millions of Christians know that Christ already had a miraculous Second Coming — it was the Resurrection!”

Yeah Charles, we call those people cultists, not Christians. They only pick and choose parts of the Bible that’s convenient for them to believe in. :shock:

Well, Mr. McCluer, you referred to me as William Clark Stephenson.

My name is William Stephenson Clark.

The distortion was deliberate on your part, as usual.

WSClark
Posted January 11, 2008 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

“First of all, CluerMc, it’s William Stephen Clark, hence the WSClark nic………”

WSClark
Posted January 11, 2008 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

“Well, Mr. McCluer, you referred to me as William Clark Stephenson.

My name is William Stephenson Clark.”

What the…

You don’t even know your own name?

You put “William Stephen Clark”

and then “William Stephenson Clark”

You wouldn’t be making up a name now would you William?

Perhaps even a life? :)

JR, remember when we played sock puppet?

Oh, we had fun that night!

So, Max, how do YOU propose that we pay down the Debt?

Not some cut and paste – YOUR version.

Cool man.

Global warming.

I dig it.

Like CapnAmerica, William is going to break his promise and not call me James.

But, you can’t expect honor when it comes to Libs…

…only name calling, accusations, paranoid assignments and denial of the acknowledgment of proof when they receive it.

The Lib goal is to be disruptive and haters, nothing more.

#
WSClark
Posted January 11, 2008 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

Who is “Regular” and what nic does he or she normally post under?

For that matter, is Ag, Max, Myron, McCluer, Frank N Furter and Regular one and the same?

Is Regular really regular or is that just wishful thinking on his part?
————————————————-

Let’s make a bet William.

I bet I’m only two in that list of your 10:43 post.

How about $100.00…you know to make it easy on you.

Too bad, so sad…

The ever rationalizing William cannot call me James or Regular.

We’ll just leave him with his tortured anguish.

:roll:

BTW – JAMES – which two are you?

Okay, I’ll take this one Mr. James McCluer – if you will just use one nic in the future, I will agree to call you just James.

Fair?

And what was the “violation?”

Seems to me that it was pretty straight forward.

Don’t waste your time on J R, it keeps him busy trying to figure out his relationship with the various posters on this blog. He has no relationships beyond the blogs.

Except maybe with Frank n futer.

Picking and choosing verses, eh?? You would mean all the Fundamentalists who pick and choose a few obscure verses to foment hatred for gays… and then go out shopping for their Easter Ham, or go out to a Friday Night Shrimp and Lobster Dinner??

Is that the kind of picking and choosing??

OR, do you mean the kind that includes all of the Millions of Christians who basically believe that we havent figured out the FIRST coming of Christ yet, and have no need to worry about the Second one…

As I said before, The Resurrection was the Second Coming… Why look for more??

Regular, you type as if you need some kind of helper to keep you from being Irregular!!

I’m not playing your little fairy games tonight… not in the mood!! Christians have various ideas about many things… NOBODY has any right to insist that all believe the same things… That would be the beliefs of the likes of the Taliban…

And the POINT is that Fundamentalists pick and choose their verses and reject the ones they dont like just like millions of others!!

So, as I said now THREE times… THIS is not the place to discuss things like “Second Coming” Take it to some coffee shop here such things are normal…

Good night; Good luck; and God bless;
Whatever you conceive God to be!!

Blessings all!!